Dick Cheney takes issue with reality
Vice President Dick Cheney, in an interview with CNN Sunday, offered his assessment of the Bush approach to terrorism and its impact:
“Now, I think part of the difficulty here as I look at what the Obama administration is doing, we made a decision after 9/11 that I think was crucial. We said this is a war. It’s not a law enforcement problem.
Up until 9/11, it was treated as a law enforcement problem. You go find the bad guy, put him on trial, put him in jail. The FBI would go to Oklahoma City and find the identification tag off the truck and go find the guy that rented the truck and put him in jail.
Once you go into a wartime situation and it’s a strategic threat, then you use all of your assets to go after the enemy. You go after the state sponsors of terror, places where they’ve got sanctuary. You use your intelligence resources, your military resources, your financial resources, everything you can in order to shut down that terrorist threat against you.
When you go back to the law enforcement mode, which I sense is what they’re doing, closing Guantanamo and so forth, that they are very much giving up that center of attention and focus that’s required, and that concept of military threat that is essential if you’re going to successfully defend the nation against further attacks.”
That all sounds appropriately Cheneyesque, in which approaches that can be made to sound tough are preferred to approaches that merely work better. But with Sept. 11 more than seven years behind us, we have a track record of success and failure to examine. That record suggests that the vice president is full of … baloney.
For example, at the Pentagon’s request, RAND analysts have just completed a comprehensive study of 648 terrorist groups that operated since 1968, including al Qa’ida. It’s titled “How Terrorist Groups End: Lessons for Countering al Qa’ida,” and it looks at what has been successful and what has not.
According to RAND, “the authors conclude that policing and intelligence, rather than military force, should form the backbone of U.S. efforts against al Qa’ida. And U.S. policymakers should end the use of the phrase ‘war on terrorism’ since there is no battlefield solution to defeating al Qa’ida.”
I’m still reading the report, but so far RAND’s description of its findings seems accurate. The authors warn that “the evidence by 2008 suggested that the U.S. strategy was not successful in undermining al Qa’ida capabilities. Our assessment concludes that al Qa’ida remained a strong and competent organization… Al Qa’ida has been involved in more terrorist attacks since September 11, 2001 than it was during its prior history.”
And how do we do better?
“Terrorists should be perceived and described as criminals, not holy warriors. Our analysis suggests that there is no battlefield solution to terrorism. Military force usually has the opposite effect from what is intended. It is often overused, alienates the local population by its heavy-handed nature and provides a window of opportunity for terrorist recruitment.”
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182 comments Add your comment
DB, Gwinnettian
March 17th, 2009
7:08 am
“So?”
DB, Gwinnettian
March 17th, 2009
7:11 am
Anyone who continues to cling to the notion that we needed a Bush/Cheney administration to “keep us safe” from terrists is probably beyond hope, Jay, although I admire your ongoing efforts to educate the stupid among us.
DB, Gwinnettian
March 17th, 2009
7:19 am
Terrorists should be perceived and described as criminals, not holy warriors. Our analysis suggests that there is no battlefield solution to terrorism.
For any prominent Democratic elected official to have uttered these rational words at any time between 9/11 and, oh, say, now? Our corporate media, the vile Bush Dog Democrats, and the entire Republican Party would have that man or woman run out of DC on a rail and called a terrorist sympathizer.
(I might be exaggerating by as much as 15%.)
I Report/ You Whine
March 17th, 2009
7:20 am
The authors warn that “the evidence by 2008 suggested that the U.S. strategy was not successful in undermining al Qa’ida capabilities. Our assessment concludes that al Qa’ida remained a strong and competent organization
Ahahahahahaha!!!!
Al-Qaeda leaders admit: ‘We are in crisis. There is panic and fear’
Al-Qaeda in Iraq faces an “extraordinary crisis”. Last year’s mass defection of ordinary Sunnis from al-Qaeda to the US military “created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight”. The terrorist group’s security structure suffered “total collapse”.
These are the words not of al-Qaeda’s enemies but of one of its own leaders in Anbar province — once the group’s stronghold. They were set down last summer in a 39-page letter seized during a US raid on an al-Qaeda base near Samarra in November.
Ask them how they are doing today, if you can find one of them.
Departure from reality indeed, Bookman.
DB, Gwinnettian
March 17th, 2009
7:20 am
Dang. I gots the slanties @ 7.19, coulda sworn I’d closed that eye-talics tag at the end of the first graf before hitting submit.
Kamchak
March 17th, 2009
7:22 am
Repubs, once thrilled with
their dominant force,
now can’t admit to
a buyer’s remorse.
“Reaganomics works”
we all heard them deem.
Trickledown is just
a warm yellow stream.
Bud Wiser
March 17th, 2009
7:31 am
You don’t have to fight an enemy you cannot see.
You cannot see the enemy once he is dead and buried.
What a shame it would be if the boat transporting prisoners from Gitmo ‘accidentally’ sank en route. That happens a lot to those ferries you buy from Singapore, I’m told.
DB, Gwinnettian
March 17th, 2009
7:34 am
Kamchak, good bones, but the timing’s still a bit off.
My edit to make it fit into four bars of 4/4:
Goopers all were thrilled with their dominant force,
now they can’t own up to to a buyer’s remorse.
“Reaganomics works” was the dominant meme
But trickle-down is nothing but a a smelly yellow stream.
better?
DB, Gwinnettian
March 17th, 2009
7:35 am
a a ahhhrg. Fingers not workin’ for me today. Where’s my proofreader?
Jay
March 17th, 2009
7:36 am
Of course, Whiner, there was no al Qaida in Iraq to defeat until after we invaded that country. Which is exactly what the RAND analysis points out: Our use of military force bolstered al Qaida.
Thanks for letting me point that out.
G
March 17th, 2009
7:40 am
Cheney – “We left Scooter hanging in the wind.”
Let’s see here. It is wrong to hang a wrap on their fall guy, but it is okay to start a war, murder and maim hundreds of thousands, make millions homeless, torture innocent people, create global unrest and devastate the economy and strength of the greatest nation in the world.
What planet does this man live on?
Jay
March 17th, 2009
7:40 am
Also, Chad Harris is now free to post here again, should he wish to do so. His time of exile has ended.
Redneck Convert
March 17th, 2009
7:44 am
Well, I see the libruls are still carping about the Iraq war. They claim we hit the wrong target. Far as I’m concerned, it’s kind of like what happens down at Billy Bob’s when a fight breaks out. If you get hit with something somebody throwed, you don’t look to see who throwed it. No, you pick out the littleist fellow you can find and slug him a good one.
Anyhow, I been e-mailing a Patriotic bunch of pictures to people. They’re of the caskets all lined up and the wording talks about how we must Support the Troops that are dying for us and the war and such. I don’t know how they got the pictures. Up until this Obama we didn’t let them take pictures of the caskets coming home so the libruls wouldn’t have no ammo to use against us Conservatives. Now I reckon we’ll be seeing casket pictures all over the place and the libruls will carp to beat the band. Bunch of Traders.
Have a good day everybody.
DB, Gwinnettian
March 17th, 2009
7:52 am
G @ 7.40: “create global unrest and devastate the economy and strength of the greatest nation in the world. ”
I’m glad you got to that, because–aside from the ridiculous GWOT take upon which Jay’s focused this morning, I found particularly egregious Cheney’s eagerness to feed the wingnut meme about how it’s all essentially Barney Frank’s fault, (and Carter! yeah!) forcing those decent, noble bankers to lend money to po’ folk. From the interview transcript:
I don’t think you can blame the Bush administration for the creation of those circumstances. It’s a global financial problem. We had, in fact, tried to deal with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac problem some years before with major reforms and were blocked by Democrats on the Hill, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.
Yep, it’s all about Fannie/Freddie and those Democrat Baddies who messed things up!
“What planet does this man live on?”
Indeed. While I’m not big on “let the other guys beat themselves up” as long-term political strategy, short-term I’m kind of glad this guy couldn’t keep his yap shut.
Did Cheney ever have the support of a majority of Americans? I think he’s likely doomed to be the neocon poster child, never able to rehab his image, and like Rush Limbaugh, a convenient guilt-by-association target for those currently in power to use when needed.
In baseball, you can’t have too much pitching. In politics, you can’t have too many punching bags. Thanks, Dick!
Vinny
March 17th, 2009
7:54 am
Not suprising that the libs continue to attempt to distract the public away from the fact that the Obama administration is destroying our country with their inept policies. Pelosi and Reid are calling all the shots, and Obama is merely their hand puppet.
And the best that the white house can come up with are more childish, high-school quips like “I guess Rush was busy”.
This current administration is absolutely pathetic. It has become obvious to most informed Americans that they don’t have a clue as to what they are doing. One day the economy is in shambles and we need to start spending money to avoid a catastophe. The next minute, it’s “oops – not as bad as we thought”.
Which is it Barack? Make up your friggin mind! Maybe you should ask Pelosi and Reid what to say instead of reading off the teleprompter all of the time.
DB, Gwinnettian
March 17th, 2009
7:55 am
it’s kind of like what happens down at Billy Bob’s when a fight breaks out. If you get hit with something somebody throwed, you don’t look to see who throwed it. No, you pick out the littleist fellow you can find and slug him a good one.
Author! Author!
G
March 17th, 2009
7:55 am
I would much rather have seen Jon Stewart, Rachel Maddow or Keith Olbermann interview Dick Cheney.
Dick was in his low-energy (a bit bored) (and then again, flashes of fear, immediately throttled, are evident in Cheney, if you see them (very quick) in the interview).
He trotted out the same old talking points as old and stale as his power-lusting, reactionary 19th century Imperialist mind.
I sincerely doubt he’d be willing to face any interviewer who wouldn’t play softball, unfortunately.
A competent reporter with neither the corporate bias nor the “Pontius Pilate” fallacy could take him apart in a few minutes, and I’d love to see Dick walk off the set then, because he would simply get up and leave – back to the bunker.
Cherokee
March 17th, 2009
7:56 am
DB and Kamchak, good stuff…
AmVet
March 17th, 2009
7:57 am
Do any of you in the far right fringe STILL believe a single word that the disgraceful Dick Cheney spews?
ONE?
If so, that is truly amazing.
This man has been proven time after time after time to be both utterly truthless and almost completely lacking in integrity. The most damaging combination a nation could have in an elected leader. No wonder the perfectly incompetent King George II selected him — birds of a feather.
Lie after misrepresentation after inaccuracy after deadly misstep — and his Republiconned “faithful” lapped every one them up.
But he has served his purpose — the GOP reels under an ever-growing avalanche of self-made disasters and the nation is no longer in a forgiving mood.
I think there is little doubt they have worked very hard to earn a third consecutive electoral disaster.
The most revolting part of all of this is that he should be in jail instead of on TV talk shows…
John Galt Jr.
March 17th, 2009
7:57 am
No, invading Iraq drew al Qa’ida THERE to the fight kinda like deer to a watering hole. I would rather draw them there to the fight and kill them there than here. Sounds like a hunters strategy. Now at least pay for your soldiers health care after they are injured. Making our troops pony up for their medical expenses in unconscionable.
I Report/ You Whine
March 17th, 2009
8:05 am
Aahhh, yes, thee al Qaeda’s they just sprouted up out of the desert sands thee moment thee evil Bushie made war on the innocent and lovely dictatorship of thee Saddamie, who would have lived happily ever after, yes indeed, uh, either that or they came there from afar to defend their honor and wound up getting slaughtered instead-
Consider what bin Laden said about the importance of the war in Iraq in December 2004:
I now address my speech to the whole of the Islamic nation: Listen and understand. The issue is big and the misfortune is momentous. The most important and serious issue today for the whole world is this Third World War, which the Crusader-Zionist coalition began against the Islamic nation. It is raging in the land of the two rivers. The world’s millstone and pillar is in Baghdad, the capital of the caliphate.
The whole world is watching this war and the two adversaries; the Islamic nation, on the one hand, and the United States and its allies on the other. It is either victory and glory or misery and humiliation. The nation today has a very rare opportunity to come out of the subservience and enslavement to the West and to smash the chains with which the Crusaders have fettered it.
You libs lost the Iraq War, get over it, sore losers.
DB, Gwinnettian
March 17th, 2009
8:07 am
Vinny, may I ask upon what this latest “Obama takes his marching orders from that San Fag-sisco Pelousy and Dirty Harry Reid” wingnut meme is based?
Because I’m hearing it a lot lately. And beyond how you tend to see and hear the House and Senate majority leaders a lot on the TeeVee when there’s big legislation being debated, I have no idea why any intelligent person would give much credence to it.
(and yeah, I can point to a few pundits who’ve nitpicked about Obama allowing the House to steer the stimulus package debate for a few too many days, but beyond that? huh?)
DB, Gwinnettian
March 17th, 2009
8:08 am
“Ahhh, yes” — Whiner-speak for “I got nothin’, here, engage scroll wheel.”
Joey
March 17th, 2009
8:08 am
There is no reason to read Jay’s post. The selected photo of Cheney says all that needs to be said about Jay’s Bush Derangement Syndrome.
But a note on RAND. This is from a paragraph in a press release by RAND on the occasion of their 50th anniversary: “The skills that RAND honed in the national security arena were later applied to social policy issues of the Great Society.”
Biased toward the Progressive? You decide.
GOP is gone
March 17th, 2009
8:08 am
All true Am Vet except the part about George II selecting Cheney. Please remember that Cheney was the one who selected himself, he was the one looking for a VP and thought he was the best choice.
Had to laugh at the “Scary” Cheney head shot above. Please don’t say “boo”.
DB, Gwinnettian
March 17th, 2009
8:09 am
Back later. Finish your breakfasts, kids, and don’t forget to brush and floss.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
March 17th, 2009
8:12 am
President Bush and Vice President Cheney kept our nation safe. Throughout their administration they had to keep a cunning, immoral, and thoroughly evil enemy from trying to destroy America, and, on top of keeping Reid, Pelosi, Frank, and Kennedy at bay, they had to battle Islamo-facism to keep the world safe, too.
I hope Obama does well, but if his muddled handling of the financial crisis is an indication, we’re in big troubled.
Ray
March 17th, 2009
8:13 am
No matter what you call them, “Enemy Combatants”, poor misunderstood Sons of Allah, innocent fall guys who we need to talk with…. if they had a chance they would commandeer four more planes and repeat the same act that they did on 9/11. Their goals have not changed one bit…. we are still the infidel, they are the chosen ones to punish the infidel and we have a persistent threat from that segment of Islam to hang our head on a pole. What is the best way to combat the threat? Cheney is spot on. It has worked for the last 7 years and will continue to work if Mr. Wonderful and his team don’t f*** it up.
If you go duck hunting, you go where the ducks are. Dry up their finances, police the Muslim schools and Mosques that preach hate and division, carry the battle to Pakistan where most of Allah’s sons are holed up, continue to extract intel from the prisoners we have and, most importantly, never forget that our safety and security is the most important thing that government provides for it’s citizens. And you don’t get it by stuffing roses down their gun barrels.
Davo
March 17th, 2009
8:19 am
More space-filling, time-wasting and cut-and-pasting from Bookman. Cheney is a goon..ya..got it. Don’t turn that hyper critical eye toward the new administration yet…there’s just not enough websites out there to pilfer content from (seeing as you can’t write anything original).
GOP is gone
March 17th, 2009
8:21 am
If you want to see the right way to turn around the Muslim communities read “Three Cups of Tea” by Mortenson
As of 2008, Mortenson has established over 78 schools in rural and often volatile regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan, which provide education to over 28,000 children, including 18,000 girls, where few education opportunities existed before.
AmVet
March 17th, 2009
8:25 am
Good point, GOP is gone. I guess Dumbo and Dumbo-er could not find anyone else rabid enough!
And I can almost assure you that the Republiconned who blow it off as “BDS”, etc.. voted for that POS. Twice.
Those two and their sycophants/apologist followers/enablers are truly a confederacy of dunces. That are STILL trying to justify botched invasions and occupations!
But their swan song has been sung.
Never again will we see fraud conservatives/criminals run this country (Into the ground)…
GOP is gone
March 17th, 2009
8:29 am
Yes the Fat lady is taking her bow. Let’s hope there will not be an encore any time soon. It is refreshing to have an articulate intelligent President.
Dave R
March 17th, 2009
8:38 am
Yeah, now we can have out in the open liberal criminals run our country into the ground faster. I love the new efficiency in Washington, D.C. . . .
AmVet
March 17th, 2009
8:39 am
I agree Byll.
Not ONCE did we see an Islamic armada storm the Jersey shore!
NEVER did a Middle Eastern pilot get past Honolulu!
NARY a single time did we have thousands of armed Islamo-militiamen cross the Canadian border and threaten International Falls!
I’d put him up there with FDR and Lincoln!
Bushie did a heckuva job!
OK, enough irony. Off to pay for more corporate welfare. And the occupation(s).
Pray for rain…
Copyleft
March 17th, 2009
8:41 am
You can’t use soldiers to fight terrorism, any more than you can use them to fight inflation. Facts are facts, and the only PROVEN way to defeat terrorists is with policing and intelligence work–just as the report says.
Bush’s “war” approach didn’t work; it made the terrorism problem WORSE. Again, these are basic facts. But then, the dwindling remnant of Bushdrones has never been strongly connected to reality.
Citizen of the World
March 17th, 2009
8:49 am
We went after an unconventional enemy with a conventional army. That never made sense to me. What made even less sense was for us to attack Iraq as part of our response. But that was the best way for Bush and Chaney to enrich the military-industrial complex (i.e., their buddies), so nothing was going to stand in their way, and they weren’t going to be confused by the facts.
The Corporal
March 17th, 2009
8:50 am
“Dulce Bellum Inexpertis”
Ah, war is so sweet to all of you out there who are inexperienced. That’s o.k., I do the same thing watching an NFL game.
Cheney is right on this one. War is NOT a law enforcement operation.
Enemy combatants (sorry Mr. President but you have zero battlefield experience) caught OUT OF UNIFORM should be summarily shot by military firing squad just as General Eishenhower had out of uniform German soldiers executed within 24 hours during the Battle of the Bulge (and they weren’t even fighting us – they were posing as U.S. military police and trying to misdirect convoys). No hearing, no trial, no appeal. And it doesn’t matter where the battlefield is ….. Iraq, Afghanistan or the U.S. Do you think 9/11 was a “battlefield” or a “criminal act”? Good grief.
These guys know the rules. If they won’t play by them it’s their choice. Wear that uniform or patch 24/7 like our troops are required to do or it’s on to paradise.
Taxpayer
March 17th, 2009
8:52 am
Eight years in office and Dick barely had a word to share with we the people. Instead, he preferred to think of us as little people that could not be trusted with even knowing about the serious decisions that he had to make. So, he takes on the role of God and makes decisions on everything from who dies to where we get our oil and does it all behind closed doors, under cloak of darkness. NOW, now that Dick is out of power, he is more than willing to share with us all that is being done wrong. Well, Dick. We are finally getting things done right. So, go play with yourself. And, by the way, where are all of those records that you owe we the people. What a worthless POS — Dick, that is.
George American
March 17th, 2009
8:54 am
Cheney is right. Only a full-out war can win.
The cowardly direction of the current administration will doom the US to another 9/11. Now that Obama has given the Islamic extremist a break, they will regroup and organize another attack. It will likely occur within the next 2 years thanks to the Obama appeasement policy. But at least that will limit his damage to America to one disastrous term.
Birds of a feather…..
danjonglee
March 17th, 2009
8:57 am
Is the war over yet? Where are the troops? How many are still in the Iraq and the Afgan?
Kamchak
March 17th, 2009
8:59 am
@ DB, Gwinnettian
I was trying for five beats per line.
Taxpayer
March 17th, 2009
9:01 am
These so-called “conservatives” — I guess they are the right-wing fringe that left the Republican party after Palin failed to take office and Steele took over the RNC — should accept Dick as their new head. They’re a perfect fit for each other.
Bosch
March 17th, 2009
9:01 am
AmVet,
Pray for rain? Hell man, it’s been raining for four straight days at the Bosch homestead!
Great picture of VP Vader.
Honestly, does anyone believe this nut bag? Why anyone would want to even sit in the same room with him to interview is beyond me – I’d be afraid he’d attack me and drain all my blood and turn me into a Creature of the Night such as himself (I’ve been watching a couple of vampire shows lately, can you tell?)
The Voice
March 17th, 2009
9:04 am
Taxpayer….you can not be trusted?….Damn right you cannot be trusted…you elected Obama didn’t you….
Davo
March 17th, 2009
9:05 am
“— should accept Dick as their new head.”
Hmmmm…what would they call him I wonder?
Better stuff here:
http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/racist_jim_clyburn/
Scroll to bottom for the video
Racist Jim Clyburn
Posted by Jack Hunter on March 17, 2009
For many, the Obama era promised to break down the racial barriers and bugaboos of old and herald in a new age of understanding, in which Americans could finally discuss and debate issues based on nothing but honorable intentions.
Apparently Congressman Jim Clyburn did not receive the memo.
The ridiculous extent to which the word “racist” has been used and abused has now rendered the term completely meaningless. Individual and institutional racism prevalent during slavery and segregation was glaring and obvious. Today, genuine racism is less obvious, yet undoubtedly still exists, and a word to label such instances might be useful. But the word “racism” itself has been thoroughly discredited precisely because of men like Clyburn.
Bosch
March 17th, 2009
9:05 am
But that’s not to say I think we should take our guard down for one second. I’ve always been in the camp of bringing our soldiers home and putting them on the borders and patroling our ports and airports and stuff like that – supplemented by small covert operations to take out important terrorist or bad guy gathering places and operative headquarters and lets see – are their any other “24″ type bad guy type places I’ve missed? I’m not the military guy here. Oh yeah, training camps, and nuclear weapons arsenals, and okay, I’m at an end here.
Joe Matarotz
March 17th, 2009
9:06 am
And now for something completely different…
Obama is preparing to stick it to our Vets on their insurance. I wonder how many of them supported him? I believe that, given enough time, Obama will manage to alienate just about everyone except the lazy slobs with the sense of entitlement that those who work for a living and strive to prosper owe them.
In other news, COngress has reacted with outrage over AIG paying out $165 million dollars in bonuses. Said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, “These people are acting totally without conscience and without heed to the American public. Who do they think they are? Congress?”
Now back to our regularly scheduled journalistic smackdown…
Bosch
March 17th, 2009
9:07 am
Voice,
Taxpayer didn’t elect Obama – the American people did. Remember that election back in November? You remember where he won 52% of the populace vote and how many electoral votes – it was a huge majority there, so…….
The Corporal
March 17th, 2009
9:07 am
ABC HEADLINE: Obamanomics Sparks Ire Across the Aisle
Liberals Voicing Anger, Outrage Over President’s Handling of Bailouts
AJC HEADLINE: Veterans call health plan a ‘betrayal’
White House considers charging their insurance for service-related injuries. (P.S. Did he mention this one during the campaign ???)
CommunistAJC
March 17th, 2009
9:10 am
Bookman,
although I’m not a Cheney fan I do agree that Obama and the dems are soft on terrorism. Case in point: GITMO! The new head of the Taliban is a former Gitmo detainee that President Teleprompter released. President Teleprompter can not blame Bush or the GOP for ANY new attacks on Americans. The blood will be on President Teleprompter!