Details of AIG bonuses aren’t very soothing
Well, some of the details of the AIG bonuses have been released. They aren’t any prettier on closer inspection. In fact, they’re damn ugly.
From The Washington Post:
NEW YORK, March 17 — Seventy-three employees of troubled American International Group received more than $1 million in bonuses under contracts that guaranteed them 100 percent of their 2007 pay in 2008 regardless of performance, New York State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo said.
The revelation comes a day after Cuomo subpoenaed AIG for information regarding $165 million paid to executives and other workers in the company’s troubled financial products division, chiefly responsible for bringing the insurance giant to the brink of collapse last year. The firm has required $170 billion in government injections.
AIG declined to comment on Cuomo’s letter. But a person familiar with the situation said the company did not want to release the names because of privacy issues and also out of concern for the safety of the individuals. The company has been flooded with phone calls and death threats since news reports over the weekend about the bonuses.
The top bonus recipient got more than $6.4 million, Cuomo said. The top seven earners received payouts of more than $4 million each, while 22 people received bonuses of $2 million or more, Cuomo said.”
Public outrage and frustration over the AIG scandal is enormous, and for good reason: It epitomizes the larger economic scandal in so many ways.
The people who caused this mess continue to profit from it — 73 people getting a million bucks each, and 22 getting twice that amount — and apparently there’s not a damn thing to be done about it legally. They will get off pretty much scot-free. The same is true of the politicians of both parties who allowed themselves and the system to be slowly corrupted in service to Big Money, and who now profess to be shocked, shocked at the notion that gambling was taking place in the casino.
Meanwhile, the people who didn’t profit from it but in fact are losing jobs and homes and futures are being forced to do the responsible thing and pony up huge amounts of money to try to ease the impact of the catastrophe.
So yeah, anger is very very justified. Frustration is very very justified.
The problem is that legitimate anger, denied a legitimate target on which to vent itself, will choose illegitimate targets and be vented in illegitimate and destructive ways. Staying calm and rational when you really just want to grab those $&#*&*s by the &$*#(HIO-%^&%@# throat — it’s a little hard at the moment.
My mom had a saying that I never fully understood as a kid: “Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.” I understand it a little better now. But damn.
You want to say OK, that’s it — no more billions for AIG or for Wall Street, and damn the consequences. But the people we’re really mad at — the ones elbow-deep in this mess — have for the most part already collected their fortunes and vamoosed. By trying to exact revenge on them by forcing the collapse of the financial system, we would only harm ourselves.
It’s like that biblical story of the blinded strongman Samson, who pulls down the Philistine temple, killing himself and 3,000 Philistine enemies with him.
Except in this case, the Philistines have already left the temple, waving their million-dollar bonuses as they go.
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179 comments Add your comment
The Professor
March 17th, 2009
6:02 pm
Where do we go from here?
PJ
March 17th, 2009
6:06 pm
The Treasury needs to tax every penny of that money so that the United States government gets it back for tarp money paid.
CommunistAJC
March 17th, 2009
6:16 pm
Maybe this is a lesson for the government. Don’t give out taxpayer money to failing companies or banks.
CommunistAJC
March 17th, 2009
6:16 pm
PJ,
the government will find another way to waste our money.
@@
March 17th, 2009
6:17 pm
The problem is that legitimate anger, denied a legitimate target on which to vent itself, will choose illegitimate targets and be vented in illegitimate and destructive ways.
I am in no way sympathetic to the greed of a few Wall Street moguls, but for Obama to blanket ALL corporations as corrupt was bound to bring revolution. Using the have-nots against the haves is a democratic staple.
Welcome to The Revolution! It can be viewed at the Democrats’ Museum of Fine Arts, painted with a “stroke of genius” using, unnecessarily, a brush too broad.
Ray
March 17th, 2009
6:21 pm
Jay is spot on with his assessment. There is a whole parade of people responsible for this mess, from politicians of both parties to company execs to mortgage brokers. But we have the same people “fixing the problem” as caused the problem in the first place. Their only solution has been to throw massive amounts of money at the problem….. sort of like pouring water down a gopher hole. When will we learn that history teaches a lesson to us all. My main worry is being in debt to China for close to a trillion US dollars. The more debt you accumulate with your rival, the weaker you become in dealing with them. They will no doubt exploit this situation to their best advantage before this is all over. It’s a lose-lose scenario for the American taxpayer.
Ben
March 17th, 2009
6:21 pm
It’s a total of $165 million under legal contracts. Why chase the best people to the competition? Then AIG will have even less of a chance of pulling out of their tailspin- Not only will they have lost their best people, but their competition will have gained great minds. And only a small division of AIG was involved in the swaps that got them in this mess, most of the company is very profitable.
I’d like to see more outrage over the exponentially larger amount of money that Congress and Obama are spending on things that have nothing to do with the economic crisis. It’s a heck of a lot more than $165 million they are flushing down the toilet and we will have nothing to show for it. At least the AIG bonuses may keep some talent there that will help them. Maybe if Congress cut their own pay, they would all quit and we can get some non-corrupt, non-morons in there. And maybe a few people who aren’t lawyers. Like some scientists and economists. With all the lawyer jokes everyone makes, it’s insanity that most of our elected leaders are lawyers. I guess that’s one of the few professions where people have both the time and the money to run for office. Most of the rest of us are working too hard.
danjonglee
March 17th, 2009
6:33 pm
Christopher Dodd? Who is he?
Eleanor Rigby
March 17th, 2009
6:45 pm
Well, here in America we not only tolerate corruption and incompetence, we reward it! And now there’s talk of not paying for the medical needs incurred by vets while serving their country. Is this what we’ve come to? Ah yes, proud to be American. Gotta love it.
Tom
March 17th, 2009
6:47 pm
The REAL “bailout czar”?……..
Guess who?
Mrs. Godzilla
March 17th, 2009
7:00 pm
Using the haves against the have nots?
Poor poor pitiful haves. Being used and all!
Malarkey. The haves are not being used, they are using us. This is not the start of class warfare, it’s just another skirmish in the ongoing battle.
radiowxman
March 17th, 2009
7:24 pm
Hey, I’ve got a job for y’all. The base pay isn’t all that much more than what you make right now, but here’s the deal: I’ll give you an end of the year bonus if you stick with us for the whole year. So go ahead and include that in your budget — it’s right here in the legally binding contract that you’ll sign as terms of employment with me.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a corporate executive or a union worker. A contract is a legally binding document that needs to be upheld unless renegotiated in good faith by both parties.
This could have been solved easily. There could have been a provision in the bailout stating that all bonuses needed to be renegotiated.
But nope. In the frenzy of “OMG we have to sign this bill now or the world will collapse into flames and American Idol will get cancelled and the Cubs will win the World Series!,” the esteemed senator Chris Dodd made sure that those bonuses would get paid.
Of course, it’s no coincidence whatsoever that Mr. Dodd was one of the largest recipients of AIG’s campaign donations.
And now, lo and behold! Mr. Dodd is amongst those leading the pack criticizing AIG. Hmmm. Perhaps we should be directing our anger elsewhere.
But then again, as long as politicians can divert our attention to those awful greedy fatcat rich people, maybe they can escape our ire.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
March 17th, 2009
7:34 pm
Jay, so you say, “The people who caused this mess continue to profit from it — 73 people…” So your contention is that the AIG derivatives desk had, at its peak, 73 people – all of whom stayed at the firm through the bonus date, all of whom created large losses, and all of whom did not deserve that bonus which they were paid. Is that so?
Is it feasible that AIG once had more than 73 people on the derivatives desk and that those persons who ran up huge losses were fired. Is that feasible? Is it further feasible that the 73 who were paid the bonuses were: 1) either people who had always run profitable books or new hires; 2) ran profitable books during 2008 that greatly benefited AIG and the US Taxpayer; 3) actually earned the 2008 bonuses; and 4) would not have stayed or come to AIG through 2008 if a retention bonus or guaranteed income was not on the table and that things could have been a lot worse at AIG without these folks. Is that feasible?
During the past six, there has not been a month when an executive search firm has not asked me if I had interest in a C Level job at a bad bank. My response is always the same; I need huge cash compensation and extraordinary equity upside with three years comp guaranteed. GUARANTEED. Why would I leave a stable situation to risk being at a company that could fold tomorrow and leave me with nothing – NO RATIONAL PERSON WOULD TAKE THAT RISK.
This whole bonus hub-bub is but a means to deflect blame to AIG employees from where it lies – Der Fuhrer Obama and Heir Geithner. If the bonuses were wrong, those responsible should be held to account and either fired or made to resign – whether it is the AIG division manager, the AIG CEO, the AIG board, a Treasury functionary, or Taxdodge-Timbo, or your beloved Fuhrer, himself. Let’s not forget that Der Fuhrer and Taxdodge-Timbo just retraded the deal with AIG less than 30 days ago and the issue of bonuses should have been covered – and would have been covered if Tax-dodge Timbo had the knowledge of a second year distressed debt associate.
Der Fuhrer Obama has whipped the country into a kristlenacht-like frenzy, when, were the facts known, the bonuses are legal and may be justified in light of individual performance that made AIG’s 2008 a lot better than it would have been to the great benefit of the US taxpayer.
Taxpayer
March 17th, 2009
7:35 pm
I’ve never considered this to be a case of trying to save AIG. Quite the contrary. AIG died long ago. I thought that the Fed had to step in to basically take on the role of bankruptcy court and financier for an orderly wind-down. The phrase AIG is too big to fail to me means that it couldn’t just go belly up over night. The reason is that we knew just enough about what they had on their books and how they were intertwined with everything that keeps the financial system functioning to know that the consequences would be catastrophic. Also, recall that we had no regulation or oversight of the derivatives market or the securitized debt market so the Fed was going into this mess initially blind and unarmed for the most part. Anyway, their failure would have triggered a Domino effect like no one could likely even imagine but there certainly were plenty of people coming up with some scary scenarios. Otherwise, AIG would have gone straight into bankruptcy. It takes time and a lot of money and effort to wind down such massive operations involving trillions of dollars in an orderly manner. But, in the end AIG should be nothing more than a bunch of sold off pieceparts.
George American
March 17th, 2009
7:39 pm
It is very obvious that the government should have stayed out of the market, period. It is government policies that put AIG in the corner.
Government will not get them out of their pickle. We should let them figure it out themselves.
I Report/ You Whine
March 17th, 2009
7:40 pm
You ought to see how much money OneTerm gave to ACORN.
Dwarfs this “outrage.”
RW-(the original)
March 17th, 2009
7:42 pm
The people who caused this mess continue to profit from it — 73 people getting a million bucks each, and 22 getting twice that amount — and apparently there’s not a damn thing to be done about it legally.
I beg to differ, Jay B., something was already done legally. The Dodd Amendment in the Porkulous bill that had to be passed before anybody could read it or we’d all die or something indemnified these bonuses and their recipients. It’s the law and it’s got President Obama’s fingerprints and signature all over it.
I wonder who got the most in campaign contributions from the folks at AIG??? Oh, Chris Dodd!!! My oh my.
G
March 17th, 2009
7:46 pm
Yep, this is the point where, if a Rushpublicant were in office, they would start another war to distract voters.
radiowxman
March 17th, 2009
7:51 pm
True. Obama’s already tried to distract voters by going after Limbaugh. The “It’s Bush’s fault!” line is growing stale. Wonder what he’s going to try and distract us with next?
G
March 17th, 2009
7:52 pm
Fixed Noise has apologized for putting up video of Vice President Biden saying the fundamentals of the economy are strong…but the video was from the campaign and he was mocking McCain.
Guess Drudge and Newsmax missed that one.
Jay
March 17th, 2009
7:56 pm
Says Whiner:
“You ought to see how much money OneTerm gave to ACORN.
Dwarfs this “outrage.”
How much, Whiner? Document it, please.
I Report/ You Whine
March 17th, 2009
7:59 pm
Remember when Oblahmi told us Caterpillar would rehire their workers if his porkulous package was passed?
Caterpillar to lay off 2,454 workers in 3 states
You know how many other lies you’ve been told by OneTerm?
Neither do I, I don’t have near the time required to count them all up.
ew
I Report/ You Whine
March 17th, 2009
8:01 pm
OK, here ya go-
Title XII of the spending legislation backed by the Democratic congressional leadership and the Obama administration would dole out $1 billion in old-fashioned slush funds for the Community Development Block Grants (CDBG) program. Local politicians love CDBG because it is flexible. The program gives them wide latitude when spending grant money and allows local leaders to use federal dollars on local projects that they wouldn’t dream of spending their own local tax dollars on. ACORN loves CDBG because it is adept at lobbying for CDBG funds.
A separate $10 million is provided in the stimulus package to develop or rehabilitate low-income housing under the Self-Help and Assisted Homeownership Opportunity Program (SHOP).
But the biggest chunk of the $5.2 billion comes in the form of $4.19 billion for foreclosure relief through the Neighborhood Stabilization Program.
That’s not counting how much he lied about.
It could be billions more.
Joey
March 17th, 2009
8:02 pm
Jay is not spot on here. He has had many opportunities to name names. He has be asked, pleaded with to name names. But the only names he could manage to list are Bush and Cheney. Even now in a state of real and obvious anger he cannot bring himself to write Dodd, Frank, Waters.
Hew is so comitted to Hope and Change that he cannot speak truth even now.
radiowxman
March 17th, 2009
8:03 pm
I am glad that Mr. Bookman is venting his frustration at the Wall Street types who are receiving the bailout, and nary a word for the administrations that allowed it. Or, be more specific, one of the two administrations.
G
March 17th, 2009
8:03 pm
This is Bush and Paulson – no accountability. This was the money given to them back in September by Bush and Paulson.
President Obama has made accountability his #1 priority. Why do you think these banks are turning down the second round of stimulus money? Because there is accountability.
They took the first lot of stimulus money from Bush and Paulson because they didn’t have to answer to anybody.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
March 17th, 2009
8:04 pm
Jay, since you are into quantification, howsabout quantifying staffing of the AIG derivstive desk and the monetary value of the performance of those who received bonus payments/ Or, perhaps, you are ready to goosestep into Der Fuhrer Obama’s finacial industry kristalnacht?
radiowxman
March 17th, 2009
8:07 pm
Accountability his #1 priority? Huh. I’ll remember that if he puts a tax cheat in charge of the IRA. No, wait…..he did that already didn’t he?
radiowxman
March 17th, 2009
8:07 pm
Or the IRS. Either one.
G
March 17th, 2009
8:08 pm
Does anyone know when and where the next scheduled AIG shareholders meeting will be held?
As taxpayers, now that we own our 80% share of AIG, we all need to attend this meeting to make some changes in our company.
Oh, that’s right, Paulson made sure we got non-voting stock. It’s the Rushpublicant way to exercise democracy…”Here, you pay the bill, but silently, no vote”.
Paul
March 17th, 2009
8:09 pm
Jay
My mom told me the same thing – as i tried to visualize it, I always got grossed out (what’s the best way to cut off your nose?) and I’d get distracted. And that was a nice point about legitimate anger and illegitimate targets. True in so many ways.
And I STILL like Taxpayer’s idea: Congress passes a law aimed at AIG execs that imposes a tax equal to 100 percent of their bonus.
And then may I suggest Taxpayer move to Connecticut, where the governor appoints him/her to fill out the seat vacated by Dodd, who resigned due to embarrassment, shame and the realization he’s dishonored the office and sold out his constituents.
(Music from South Pacific, voice of Ensign Nellie Forbush singing “and they call me a cockeyed optimist”)
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
March 17th, 2009
8:11 pm
G 8:03 pm
I am a financial industry guy. “Accountability” isn’y why banks are trying to get out from under TARP; it is because banks view Der Fuhrer Obama, Tax-Dodge Timbo, Backdoor Barney, Chris Dodd, and Nancy Pelatio as irrational, unreliably, idiots.
Paul
March 17th, 2009
8:13 pm
G 8:03
[[This is Bush and Paulson - no accountability]]
Did you not read RW-(the original)’s 7:42 (concerning Sen Dodd’s amendment in the original legislation to protect corporate bonuses) before you wrote that?
G
March 17th, 2009
8:15 pm
Fire them all…don’t spare a single executive.
There are plenty of fresh college graduates with business degrees who are bound to do a better job than these schmucks.
And then we hear the so-called “experts” claiming that President Obama’s cap of salaries and bonuses will rid Wall Street of “true” talent. Yeah…that’s the idea.
Midori
March 17th, 2009
8:17 pm
you wingnuts all sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher.
You spoke much more clearly during the debate(s) over the auto industry, and how “overpaid” the workers were.
Now it’s all about defending the Wall Street scum, and throwing every scoop of democratic blame you can muster.
Funny how that works out.
getalife
March 17th, 2009
8:17 pm
Great distraction from the “lost ” trillions but they both suk.
And now the blame game.
Paul
March 17th, 2009
8:19 pm
dropped posts, sigh…
Jay, I liked the comment about legitimate anger and illegitimate targets. Happens a lot.
For the record: I STILL like Taxpayer’s suggestion from a couple days ago – Congress passes legislation taxing AIG bonuses at a rate equal to 100 percent of the bonus.
Then Taxpayer moves to Connecticut, where the governor appoints him/her to serve out the remainder of Sen Dodd’s term, as he, due to shame, embarrassment and an acute sense of guilt over selling out his constituents to Big Money, resigned.
(Music from South Pacific, Ensign Nellie Forbush singing “and they call me a cockeyed optimist”).
G
March 17th, 2009
8:19 pm
Idiot Bush snuck out in the dark of night to Calgary, Canada to give a speech today. Considering he can’t speak, that had to have been a hoot.
And yes, shoes were thrown.
RW-(the original)
March 17th, 2009
8:19 pm
G,
You can kid yourself all you want, but Geithner has been involved in this bailout fiasco since day 1. Supposedly it’s what he’s good at and made him indispensable even though he’s a tax cheat. Of course if this is what he’s good at I’d hate to see him doing what he’s bad at.
Your Fox/Biden story is pretty meaningless by the way. If they showed Biden out of context from the campaign they should, and according to you did, apologize, but Obama and his Czarina of Financial Wizardry both said last week that the fundamentals of our economy are strong.
Midori
March 17th, 2009
8:21 pm
Bush gave a speech in Calgary today, and had to sneak in through the back door.
You guys sure know who to pick them.
All we have to show for our win last November is this guy who doesn’t have a valid birth certificate, can speak only with the aid of a teleprompter, and is a not-so-secret Muslim/Socialist/Arab.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
March 17th, 2009
8:22 pm
Midori – name one of the AIG guys who did not deserve his bonus – how profitable was his book – what would AIG’s numbersw have looked like without the contribution of his book.
As always, you are selling from an empty wagon of liberal blah-blah-blah
The Corporal
March 17th, 2009
8:22 pm
YAWN ……..
Midori
March 17th, 2009
8:24 pm
If you ask nicely, I will.
Otherwise, go up a rope.
RW-(the original)
March 17th, 2009
8:25 pm
Paul,
Just so there’s no confusion the Dodd Amendment is in the stimulus bill that Obama rushed through in the dark of night, not the original bailout legislation that Bush rushed through in the dark of night.
getalife
March 17th, 2009
8:29 pm
I think they kept Tim around to try to clean up his mess with Paulson and then will toss him under the bus.
Paul
March 17th, 2009
8:31 pm
RW-(the original)
Thanks for keeping it accurate. Now, to see if this will make it thru – gee, wonder if I’m banned by the IT gremlins and just didn’t know it?
or is it just dropped posts? sigh…
Jay, I liked the comment about legitimate anger and illegitimate targets. Happens a lot.
For the record: I STILL like Taxpayer’s suggestion from a couple days ago – Congress passes legislation taxing AIG bonuses at a rate equal to 100 percent of the bonus.
Then Taxpayer moves to Connecticut, where the governor appoints him/her to serve out the remainder of Sen Dodd’s term, as he, due to shame, embarrassment and an acute sense of guilt over selling out his constituents to Big Money, resigned.
(Music from South Pacific, Ensign Nellie Forbush singing “and they call me a cockeyed optimist”).
G
March 17th, 2009
8:33 pm
CATFIGHT: Laura Ingraham vs Meghan McCain
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/13/meghan-mccains-not-having_n_174734.html
The Rushpublicant party just keeps on unraveling. Get your popcorn ready.
getalife
March 17th, 2009
8:35 pm
Hey, remember the first Paulson proposal that read like a ramson note.
It was.
Remember when w spewed wall street got drunk.
They did.
G
March 17th, 2009
8:38 pm
Paula @ 8:13, Do you take everything RW says to be gospel? I don’t.
Midori
March 17th, 2009
8:42 pm
Fox News Apologizes For Misleading Viewers With Old Clip Of Joe Biden
Martha MacCallum, co-anchor of the Fox News program “The Live Desk,” apologized today after Fox News “inadvertently” used a six-month-old clip of Joe Biden talking about the economy.
The misleading segment featured splices of recent interviews with Obama administration officials discussing the state of the economy. One clip showed Joe Biden saying that the “fundamentals of the economy are strong.” The Huffington Post reported yesterday that the clip of Biden was taken from a much earlier stump speech, and that he was repeating a statement John McCain made on the campaign trail.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/17/fox-news-apolo…
G
March 17th, 2009
8:42 pm
Too bad the money these people are getting is coming from the money that Bush and Paulson gave them.
It was Bush and Paulson who didn’t put any restrictions on what the money could be used for.
Swami Dave
March 17th, 2009
8:47 pm
Let me see if I get this right……
Earmarks were only allegedly “1-2%” of the stimu-spendu-lus bill and all of these “little porky items” (in the words of Senator Schumer) we so beyond the radar that we should just pay no heed.
However, bonuses that are 1% of the money given to AIG (an act which I still contend was a mistake) are “outrageous” (as I believe the talking points had them defined).
I think I got that…….
On the flip side, if politicians would stop steamrolling legislation where they declare dire caution that prevents all opportunity for analysis and debate, they might find some of the problems (like executives with upcoming bonuses that are contractually obligated) prior to their action when they can do something about them.
If you truly want to get angry about this, blame those responsible – and that would be the politicians who passed these bailouts without taking the time to do their research. If you have trouble finding them, look no further than your television set where they are now feigning outrage and disbelief.
-Swami Dave
G
March 17th, 2009
8:48 pm
WBH @ 8:11, there may be some people who are interested in what you are and what you have to say. I, however, am not one of them.
getalife
March 17th, 2009
8:49 pm
Tim is getting the money back by taking it out of their operating budget.
I guess he realized we own them and will probably use them for heath care reform insurance.
@@
March 17th, 2009
8:51 pm
Mrs. G @ 7:00:
Take a look at some of the comments in response to one of Obama’s speeches.
“We saw how well the wealthy spent their enormous resources: they spent them on mortgage-backed securities and caused a black hole in the country’s economy that will never be filled. Had the poor not been so poor, they would not have had to take loans in the first place, and we would not have a credit bubble.”
“And according to tax data analyzed in 2007, the top 300,000 Americans earned almost as much as the bottom 150 million. ‘Earned’ is a poor word choice.”
“Lately it has been increasingly clear that much of exorbitant wealth generated on Wall Street and other bastions of capitalism has been based on greed. Our nation can achieve nothing unless we attempt to close the gap between rich and poor, greedy and benevolent.
“The have-nots have been so beaten down, tattered and worn and their voices are an inaudible whisper, yet the numbers are growing. The safety nets are frayed or non-existent. President Obama seems to have his heart in the right place, and circumstances will force the hand of government. Hopefully it will not be exclusively to bail out the Wall Street greed mongers, but the growing population of those in need.”
If that’s not a cultivated mindset opposed to what Obama defines as “the wealthy”, I don’t know what is.
You and others like you have referred to conservatives on this and other sites as greedy but I can assure you I’m not wealthy. I’ve contributed to the truly needy when I had little to give. It’s my nature to give but reading and hearing what liberals have had to say about conservatives has definitely built up a resentment within me that, up until recently, was absent.
I think Obama makes a mistake when he defines wealth in terms of dollars and cents. The wealth of a nation lies in the opportunities it has to offer and these United States has, for as long as I can recall, enjoyed an abundance of those.
How much is enough for you people?
G
March 17th, 2009
8:53 pm
Intelligent people would be ashamed to admit they are still Rushpublicants after this last failed president and administration.
The amazing thing is that the lowest 23% of Americans still stand by their failure.
They are that sick.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 17th, 2009
8:54 pm
According to what I’ve read, the $165 million figure is just for bonuses that went to people in the derivatives wing of AIG, not the parts of AIG that were turning a profit. Somebody can correct me if I’m wrong. It’s also my understanding that when the AIG deal was being hammered out Hank Paulson as Sec. of Treasury, Timothy Geithner as Head of NY Fed, and Ben Bernanke as Fed Chairman, were all in the room. I’ve said all along that those 3 (as well as many more) are part of the problem not the solution. The contract guarantee for bonuses had been signed in 2007, so they knew or should have known before they gave them the money.
At least when you went to the carnival and tried to win the stuffed bear you knew the game was rigged.
TrueLoosers
March 17th, 2009
8:57 pm
Not one AIG employee deserves a bonus, not even the mailroom employees. Keep in mind that the mailroom employee couldn’t have initiated the problems at AIG. All non-bonus employees at AIG should be outraged more than any of the people on this blog.
There are hundreds of companies in the USA, who were not as bad off financially as AIG, who did not issue bonues for last year results.
Anyone who believes that 73 AIG executives might have EARNED a bonus, has to be out of their freaking mind. I know people who have received bonuses for the last 10 years, who did not get one last year and their company is 100% better off than AIG.
If you can rationalize 73 AIG executives who should receive a bonus, you are not a republican or democrat. You should get your head examined, because you might have a tumor.
The Corporal
March 17th, 2009
8:59 pm
HEADLINE: “RECORD: NATIONAL DEBT HITS $11 TRILLION …”
Assorted Bumper Stickers:
I will give your President the same respect you gave mine.
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.
You think health care is expensive now, wait until it’s free.
Anoy a liberal. Use facts and logic.
Don’t spread my wealth – spread my work ethic.
1.5 million at the Inauguration and only 14 missed work.
01/20/13 – Change we can believe in.
Mrs. Godzilla
March 17th, 2009
8:59 pm
Midori
Thanks for posting the Fox link…I was just looking for it.
Did you hear that Senator McCain is working on some new contract for/on America? Has 1 out of 10 bullet points complete and is twittering or something for the other nine? I also thought he should have told Laura Ingraham that her comment was inappropriate. I give thanks every day the right guy was elected President.
G
March 17th, 2009
9:03 pm
For the record…
Senator Dodd’s suggestion was that executives could not get more than 30% of their compensation as a bonus.
He was restricting the bonuses…not including them.
http://usasearch.gov/search?input-form=simple-firstgov&v%3Aproject=firstgov&query=chris+dodd+bonus+tarp&x=0&y=0
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/multidb.cgi
The Congressional Record trumps Rush and Drudge, don’t you think?
Taxpayer
March 17th, 2009
9:05 pm
I think we the people have experienced all the financial wizardry that we should ever be expected to encounter in many lifetimes. As far as the Fed goes, I don’t think any of them could be expected to do any better given the mess that was dumped in their laps. I still commend them for simply keeping us from a much worse scenario.
The Corporal
March 17th, 2009
9:05 pm
HEADLINE: Bush: Obama ‘Deserves My Silence,’ Won’t Criticize New Administration
“Bush declined to critique the Obama administration Tuesday in his first speech since leaving office.”
Always the gentleman who maintained the dignity of the office. Something Carter and Clinton never picked up on.
Jay
March 17th, 2009
9:06 pm
And RW, just so there’s no confusion:
The AIG contracts were signed back in March, which means that no act of Congress or Dodd amendment in 2009 could have undone them.
Just so there’s no confusion….
@@
March 17th, 2009
9:07 pm
Senator Wyden, Oregon (D): “The president goes out and says this is not acceptable, and then some backroom deal gets cut to let these things get paid out anyway,” Wyden said. “They need to put this to bed once and for all.”
Transparency from the back room.
RW-(the original)
March 17th, 2009
9:10 pm
Geez…
Dodd Amendment Rules (The ones that actually became law)
Crack down on bonuses, retention awards and incentive compensation: Bonuses can only be paid in the form of long-term restricted stock, equal to no greater than 1/3 of total annual compensation, and will vest only when taxpayer funds are repaid. There is an exception for contractually obligated bonuses agreed on before Feb. 11, 2009.
*
* For institutions that received assistance totaling less than $25 million, the bonus restriction applies to the highest compensated employee; $25 million to $250 million, applies to the top five employees; $250 million to $500 million, applies to the senior executive officers and the next top 10 employees; and more than $500 million applies to the senior executive officers and the next top 20 employees (or such higher number as the Secretary determines is in the public interest).
getalife
March 17th, 2009
9:12 pm
Yeah private,
dick does the dirty work.
RW-(the original)
March 17th, 2009
9:13 pm
Jay B,
Did you have a point or don’t you like my use of the phrase, “just so there’s no confusion?”
And just so there’s no confusion, I’ve never said they could legally change the contracts, just so there’s no confusion…..
getalife
March 17th, 2009
9:16 pm
RW,
What does the blame game accomplish?
Just so there is no confusion, Tim has a solution to get the money back and calm the fake political outrage. Meanwhile the trillions are still “lost”.
The Corporal
March 17th, 2009
9:18 pm
To getadeath:
That’s what all V.P.’s do. It’s their job.
AmVet
March 17th, 2009
9:18 pm
“It epitomizes the larger economic SCANDAL in so many ways.”
And you people keep blubbering about nuances and esoteric minutia, but there’s nothing else that needs to be said.
We’ve been duped…
Jay
March 17th, 2009
9:18 pm
So Whiner:
You have listed sums appropriated in the bill. What you have NOT done is connect them to ACORN.
You stated:
“Title XII of the spending legislation backed by the Democratic congressional leadership and the Obama administration would dole out $1 billion in old-fashioned slush funds for the Community Development Block Grants (CDBG) program. Local politicians love CDBG because it is flexible. The program gives them wide latitude when spending grant money and allows local leaders to use federal dollars on local projects that they wouldn’t dream of spending their own local tax dollars on. ACORN loves CDBG because it is adept at lobbying for CDBG funds.
A separate $10 million is provided in the stimulus package to develop or rehabilitate low-income housing under the Self-Help and Assisted Homeownership Opportunity Program (SHOP).
But the biggest chunk of the $5.2 billion comes in the form of $4.19 billion for foreclosure relief through the Neighborhood Stabilization Program.”
In other words, none of that money is ACORN money.
Yes, it COULD go to ACORN. It could also go to Whiner Int’l. Or General Motors. So when you claimed that the real scandal was the amount of money Obama had given ACORN, the amount of money in question was ZERO.
As in NADA.
As in your level of credibility.
I really gotta get a higher quality of troll on this blog.
getalife
March 17th, 2009
9:21 pm
private,
dick just being a dick.
w is still trying to rewrite history and his failed legacy.
G
March 17th, 2009
9:21 pm
Rachel Maddow Show right now – Get a load of former Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-NE, smacking down Cheney and the Rushpublicant party. Good stuff.
Jay
March 17th, 2009
9:21 pm
Yes, RW, I did have a point. You were trying to gin up some false controversy about some Dodd amendment affecting AIG, when it fact that amendment had no impact whatsover.
I trust I am clear.
Mrs. Godzilla
March 17th, 2009
9:22 pm
@@
Thank you for your thoughtful response.
And of course it’s a cultivated mindset.
Cultivated is defined:
1. prepared and used for raising crops; tilled: cultivated land.
2. produced or improved by cultivation, as a plant.
3. educated; refined; cultured: cultivated tastes.
So what is wrong with being cultivated? Would not a cultivated mindset
be by definition a good thing?
Perhaps we should select instead a mindset that is unprepared and unused? Reduced and worn? Uneducated? Unrefined? Uncultured?
It’s a movement @@, a generational shift. I believe it is a very good thing for all of us.
You underestimate President Obama if you think he defines wealth in dollars. He understands the difference between dollars and sense, and will act appropriately.
For me, @@, enough will be when we get it right.
The Corporal
March 17th, 2009
9:23 pm
To getadeath:
Someone has to be the hatchet man.
We’ll see how President Urkel does.
RW-(the original)
March 17th, 2009
9:23 pm
What does the blame game accomplish?
getalife,
You should pass that suggestion along.
White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, D.C. 20500
Attn: Teleprompter
Maybe if somebody loads it in there PresBO will get the message.
getalife
March 17th, 2009
9:24 pm
“I really gotta get a higher quality of troll on this blog”
Yeah, soda pants was a pretty good troll.
Of course, he would not last long here.
Andy was a better troll a few years ago before his drinking problem got to him.
Midori
March 17th, 2009
9:25 pm
Mrs. G,
yeah, I heard about that goofball.
McCain is still dressed in his pajamas. Someone should really point that out to him.
Jay: that was completely, utterly funny as hell.
I see they are wearing on you, too.
getalife
March 17th, 2009
9:25 pm
RW,
That rush distraction was pretty funny.
The comics and cartoonists loved it.
Midori
March 17th, 2009
9:25 pm
watching it, G
Midori
March 17th, 2009
9:27 pm
Corporal,
I thought you were “above” calling names?
My, has the mighty fallen!!
RW-(the original)
March 17th, 2009
9:28 pm
Jay B.,
You’re clear and you’re also clearly wrong. I said the Dodd amendment indemnified the bonuses and their recipients.
I trust you know what that means and the legal weight that has on the bonuses. The Dodd amendment most definitely affects the legal status of the AIG bonuses.
getalife
March 17th, 2009
9:28 pm
President Urkal?
Come on private.
I can’t bust your rank any lower.
getalife
March 17th, 2009
9:31 pm
I have that effect on people Midori.
Midori
March 17th, 2009
9:33 pm
well, Getalife: add the fact that they are extremely humor-impaired
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
March 17th, 2009
9:38 pm
G 8:48 pm
Doesn’t surprise me one bit that you have no interest in the industry specific knowledge, expertise, and experience based on your ill-informed vacuous posts.
The Corporal
March 17th, 2009
9:40 pm
To getadeath:
Sure you can ……… “civilian”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Urkel
To Midori Dear:
Since when is comparing President Obama to a famous television personality “name calling”? Surely, you jest? President Bush suffered much more than that at the hands of you libs. Let’s not be too self-righteous now.
It’s a form of satire or hyperbole:
Pick one ………
1. Exaggeration
2. Juxtaposition
3. Parody
4. Dimunition
I Report/ You Whine
March 17th, 2009
9:42 pm
What you didn’t show, Bookman, is that the sums were not appropriated for ACORN.
But the biggest chunk of the $5.2 billion comes in the form of $4.19 billion for foreclosure relief through the Neighborhood Stabilization Program.”
Dismissing me as a “troll” makes all this go away?
Hahahahahaha, yeah, ok.
Act surprised, toady, they changed the name from ACORN to Community Reinvestment Act, ooops, I got my pinko acronyms mixed up, I mean Neighborhood Stabilization Program.
You know what, you have zero credibility, Bookman, none whatsoever, Obama lies and you parrot that lie, did you get another biscuit today?
95% of Americans will get a tax cut.
I believe in small government.
The biggest liar^^ in American history, makes Nixon look like George Washington.
What other tricks do you do, Jay, besides fetch and sit up?
Midori
March 17th, 2009
9:43 pm
um, Coporal “dear” — I was referring to the name(s) you were calling Getalife.
what is this?
preemptive guilt?
Midori
March 17th, 2009
9:44 pm
dang Andy,
is that the best you can do?
and you had at least 30 minutes to think on it.
tsk, tsk………….
The Corporal
March 17th, 2009
9:46 pm
To Midori:
It’s very simple. My “handle” is “Corporal”. Sometimes he refers to me that way and I always reply to “getalife”. When he calls me “private” he becomes “getadeath” ………. get it ……….. “getadeath”!
Isn’t that funny !!!
There are a couple of other of you libs. that I do that way but I don’t think you have caught on yet ……. I’ll give you time.
The Corporal
March 17th, 2009
9:47 pm
Midori:
P.S. Why are you so uptight ?
I Report/ You Whine
March 17th, 2009
9:47 pm
Andy was a better troll a few years ago before his drinking problem got to him.
And you, getathejoke, were far more interesting when you were cheering on the Klinton presidency.
Now, sadly, you are just another i r o diM.
ew
I Report/ You Whine
March 17th, 2009
9:49 pm
Liberals used to accuse Fox News of being part of a right-wing conspiracy to float blog items into the news. It turns out that they have their own conduit for doing the same thing. Politico reports, apparently for the first time, on JournoList, a listserv comprising hundreds of news reporters, opinion journalists, and bloggers, that generates a significant amount of content.
Logged in now, Bookman?
hahahaahahahahaha
I Report/ You Whine
March 17th, 2009
9:50 pm
i r o diM: I was watching 24, which I taped last night.
I do have a life, unlike some of you.
@@
March 17th, 2009
9:50 pm
For ME, @@, enough will be when WE get it right.
Can I take that ME (meaning YOU) and WE (meaning liberals) as an indication that you’re ready, willing and able to move forward without the greedy conservatives?
I’ve got no problem with that. Last week I signed a contract with my employer at an annual salary of $0.00. I’ll no longer be contributing to President Obama’s efforts. By the time his first term ends, neither will my husband be.
Sandra
March 17th, 2009
9:50 pm
Does the U.S. reward for poor performance? Uh, yeah. George W. Bush got two terms. So, what’s new? And the deregulation (no rules for Wall Street dudes–made into LAW) pushed by the GOP has, um, caused the problem we’re in now. Most people want their 401Ks back–they don’t care to know the history of the problem. Check out the Commodity Future Modernization Act that Phil Gramm slipped into legislation in 2000. Uh–basically said, no rules for Wall Street. No regulation. No oversight. Again, voted in by …our Congress.
The Corporal
March 17th, 2009
9:52 pm
To I Report/You Whine:
Don’t get Midori upset now by spelling her name backwards. It may be past her bedtime or that time of the ….. uh, disregard my last, over !