Do you choose the tiger, or the lady?
Let’s see if I can put this question to our friends on the right just a little more starkly, just so we all know where we stand.
Which of these two outcomes would you choose?
A.) President Obama and the Democrats move this country closer to what you perceive to be socialism, and the intervention works. The economy recovers, people go back to work and the present crisis is averted. But as a result, five years from now government is regulating Wall Street and business more intensely, tax rates on the rich have increased and universal health care is being delivered through a single-payer system, among other changes.
B.) President Obama and the Democrats move this country closer to what you perceive to be socialism, and the intervention fails. The economy continues to plummet, unemployment increases and we at least flirt with a full-blown depression. But as a result, the Obama ideology is discredited and five years from now we have a Republican president and Congress in place trying to piece things back together again.
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129 comments Add your comment
Copyleft
March 13th, 2009
2:24 pm
That’s not even a tough call, Jay. The far-ring nuts would be perfectly happy to see America suffer and burn for DECADES to come, as long as it proves the liberals and President Obama wrong.
After all, it’s not like they care about America. Just their party.
BDAtlanta
March 13th, 2009
2:26 pm
Is there a C?
Hilbilly Deluxe
March 13th, 2009
2:34 pm
Given the narrowly defined choice I would take “A”. That leaves the question what other changes and more importantly what is the effect 10, 20, and 30 years down the road. Like most polls I think it’s all in how you word the question. I don’t pay much attention to polls. The last one that mattered was Nov. 2008 and the next one that matters is Nov. 2010. Most likely 2010 will be effected by something we don’t even know about yet.
For anybody who has about 20-25 minutes to watch it, Jon Stewart had a very interesting interview with Jim Cramer last night. It’s sort of sad to me when a comedian has to ask the questions that real journalists should ask.
http://blog.indecisionforever.com/2009/03/13/jon-stewart-and-jim-cramer-the-extended-daily-show-interview/
Doggone/GA
March 13th, 2009
2:36 pm
“Is there a C?”
Sure there is: President Obama and the Democrats move this country closer to what you perceive to be socialism, and the intervention works. The economy recovers, people go back to work and the present crisis is averted. But as a result, five years from now the voters forget how much work it took to fix the problems left by the previous administration and they vote the Repulicans back in office to screw everything up again, leaving ANOTHER mess for the Democrats to fix.
TW
March 13th, 2009
2:38 pm
Translation – do you put party before country?
‘Thou shalt not talk evil of another republican’
Somebody dig ronnie up and tell him thanks alot.
getalife
March 13th, 2009
2:40 pm
A is the reality of the situation and it is working.
jasper
March 13th, 2009
2:44 pm
Neither A or B. If it involves moving closer to socialism, then let it fail. This is the problem with you libbies, you think only the Gooberment can save the economy. What about the American worker, productivity, work ethic, ingenuity, self determination, capitalism, competition, free markets, the invisible hand.
Friend, you cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. And what one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government can’t give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody. And when half of the people get the idea they don’t have to work because the other half’s going to take care of them, and when the other half get the idea it does no good to work because somebody’s going to get what I work for. That, dear friend, is about the end of any nation.”
Dr. Adrian Rogers
getalife
March 13th, 2009
2:44 pm
This part of B is the definition of insanity.
“we have a Republican president and Congress in place trying to piece things back together again”.
The Corporal
March 13th, 2009
2:44 pm
Very easy – B ! In the “long run” it would be much better for the country as Republicans would replace Democrats in office and I (although not a Republican but a conservative) would be much more comfortable with their economic, foreign policy, military and certainly moral decisions (did anyone read Krauthammer today – incredible) !
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/12/AR2009031202764.html
Bosch
March 13th, 2009
2:46 pm
Definitely A.
BDAtlanta
March 13th, 2009
2:46 pm
Doggone,
That’s the American way. You wouldn’t need Democrats if Republicans weren’t around to screw everything up.
Call us garbage collectors and janitors.
The Corporal
March 13th, 2009
2:46 pm
By the way, my AJC “vent” for today based on a local subject ….. the recent court ruling ……….
“Who can/can’t have guns at the Atlanta Airport this side of the security checkpoints? Can – any on or off duty local, state or federal officer, any “retired” local, state or federal officer, anyone transporting a firearm in checked luggage, any common criminal and any terrorist. Can’t – a law abiding citizen with a carry permit.”
Bosch
March 13th, 2009
2:49 pm
jasper,
When are you and the rest going to understand that what Obama is doing now is not socialism? Give me one example of where Obama has said, or any action he has done that he is not working to get capitalism back up and running?
Did you see the news yesterday? Did you watch his comments to the Business Rountable – he basically said he wants to get business back up and running and then step aside – tell me, what is socialistic about that?
Bosch
March 13th, 2009
2:51 pm
Why are wingnuts also so paranoid that someone’s gonna come and steal all their money and stuff?
gttim
March 13th, 2009
2:51 pm
Very easy – B ! In the “long run” it would be much better for the country as Republicans would replace Democrats in office…
And Republicans in office worked so well during the last 8 years!
gttim
March 13th, 2009
2:51 pm
Oops. End italics just in case.
ByteMe
March 13th, 2009
2:51 pm
30 minutes and the usual rightwingnuts haven’t posted a comment yet??
Jay, I think you might have scared them off by challenging them to think for themselves.
mike
March 13th, 2009
2:51 pm
This is a false choice.
Jay is making too much linkage between the economic recovery and the long-term changes that Obama is trying to make in the country.
Economic recovery will be much more dependent on the the efficacy of the bank bailout and stimulus package than on a new regulation regime, universal health care and raising taxes on the wealthy, none of which will be in place before 2011 at the very earliest.
Speaking for myself, I think that if the bank bailout and stimulus package are successful (or perceived as successful) in getting the economy back on its feet, universal health care and taxing small businesses deemed to be owned by the wealthy will undermine the economy for decades to come, as will the huge costs of cap and trade. On the other hand, I don’t think that there is much partisan debate about the fact that Wall Street needs better regulation. The only question is to what degree.
Just as many liberals believe that Bush used 9/11 to invade Iraq, many conservatives feel that Obama is using the recession to promote universal health care, enviornmental taxes and raise taxes on “the wealthy”. Just as many liberals thought that Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism, many conservatives feel that Obama’s long term policies have nothing to do with ending the recession. As Rahm Emmanuel said himself, “Never allow a crisis to go to waste.”
The Corporal
March 13th, 2009
2:53 pm
See my 2:46pm. That’s why I prefer that Republicans be in office to appoint judges ………
P.S. I miss William F. Buckley.
BDAtlanta
March 13th, 2009
2:54 pm
Jasper,
Please turn in your library card, do not drive on the roads, do not call the police when you are robbed or the fire dept. when your house is on fire.
Those are all socialist in nature. Scary, isn’t it?
BOOO!
B
March 13th, 2009
2:54 pm
having a journalist go for the “gnash” equilibrium renders a zero-sum game.
The Corporal
March 13th, 2009
2:55 pm
Hummmmm ………….
HEADLINE: Rare Praise for Obama… From Whom?!
Sen. McConnell praises Obama for continuing Bush policies in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Goldie
March 13th, 2009
2:57 pm
I vote “A” — who wants a failed economy for 5 or more years, just for scoring political points? Besides, any type of “socialism” will be Americanized and will not look like anything else in the rest of the world. We all know that America is different and it will continue to be so!
jasper
March 13th, 2009
2:59 pm
So Bosch, how’s his record holding up on doing what he says, like no earmarks, no secrecy, change in governement. He’s a consumate politician, tell them what they want to hear, then do as you please. If coddling labor unions, raising taxes, increasing size of government isn’t socialistic, and within just 50 days, I don’t know what is.
Of course he want’s to get business back up and running. You can’t tax the unemployed.
mike
March 13th, 2009
3:00 pm
Can anyone explain to me how raising taxes on “the wealthy” creates jobs?
Goldie
March 13th, 2009
3:00 pm
Bosch @ 2:51 — I think we all agree that what we’ve had for the past 8 years is too many “someones” who have stolen our entire economy… look at Ken Lay, Bernie Madoff, and all those bank CEOs stealing our bailout $$$ with their unearned “bonuses” and PR junkets.
Copyleft
March 13th, 2009
3:02 pm
Mike: If you’re saying that the economic crisis may also give us an opportunity to FINALLY fix healthcare… I say “Thank goodness. Long overdue.”
Copyleft
March 13th, 2009
3:03 pm
As for raising taxes on the wealthy… How on earth are we supposed to repair the economy WITHOUT restoring a sane tax structure? That’s like asking someone to unclog your sink without coming in the house.
Goldie
March 13th, 2009
3:03 pm
Can anyone explain to me how we’ve given the most tax cuts to our wealthiest 5% of citizens and corporations for 8 long years, and we’re still hemorraging job losses month after month??? If giving all the wealth to our wealthiest and expecting them to “create jobs” is not working, shouldn’t we try not to do that anymore???
Good grief.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
March 13th, 2009
3:03 pm
Jay, I need more information. Does the glorious Southland get to secede from the Tidy Bowl Blue Northeast, Upper Midwest, and Calyfornia?
If so, I take that option and will make my stand in Dixie Land!
Tom
March 13th, 2009
3:04 pm
oh yeah, getabr-….er….getalife, it’s working FABULOUSLY! :-Þ
mike
March 13th, 2009
3:04 pm
Goldie –
Speaking of Madoff:
” One of the greatest recipients of the Wall Street veteran’s largesse — beyond those who cashed out before his fund was exposed as a scam — was the Democratic Party, whose candidates, committees and causes received thousands of dollars in donations.
The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee received $100,000 in donations from Madoff during the past four years. Sen. Chuck Schumer, who headed the DSCC until stepping down this year, separately has received $39,000 from Madoff since 1998.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/15/senate-democrats-may-retu_n_151120.html
mike
March 13th, 2009
3:07 pm
Copyleft -
You illustrate my point exactly when you shout “If you’re saying that the economic crisis may also give us an opportunity to FINALLY fix healthcare… I say “Thank goodness. Long overdue.”
Many on the right would say, “If you’re saying that 9/11 may also give us an opportunity to FINALLY fix get rid of Saddam… I say “Thank goodness. Long overdue.”
Just to be clear, you think it is okay to cynically use a crisis to push through unrelated ideological policy. Just as long as it is policy that you support. Otherwise, it is wrong to do so. Nice double standard.
Copyleft
March 13th, 2009
3:09 pm
What double standard? It’s hypocritical to favor policies I support, and oppose those I don’t?
Tom
March 13th, 2009
3:10 pm
The Great Half-White Hope isn’t the scary one…..it’s Pelosi, Reid and the rest of the Bolsheviks in the Dem leadership that are behind the drive to completely socialize this nation.
Bosch
March 13th, 2009
3:12 pm
jasper,
I’ll admit he’s a politician, but he is not socialistic – the stimulus package did have some earmarks – yes, but that wasn’t Obama.
And did I miss something – has their been a change in our government? Are we still not a Republic? Did something change while I was out just now?
When did Obama raise taxes? Has he done that? No. He hasn’t.
But I do hope he repeals the Bush tax cuts so that everyone will be paying their fair share of taxes – I’m rather tired of that burden being on the middle class. Tax cuts for the wealthy among other things step in line with the Bushies have ruined our country.
Has he increased the size of the government? No, he hasn’t. If anything he’s trying to reduce it.
So, again, I know it’s easy to repeat the same talking points you hear but in this case, the talking points and the facts of what’s happening don’t equal up – not even close.
getalife
March 13th, 2009
3:13 pm
Dow is up 10 % this week.
Thank you President Obama for saving us from the bush depression.
Bosch
March 13th, 2009
3:15 pm
Goldie,
Yeap, it’s amazing how the minds of some people work – they can completely ignore the past 10 years (I lay some of this on Clinton).
The truth of the matter is – even if McCain had won – the same damn thing would be happening – and most here on the blog that are constantly griping and blaming Obama are too far gone in their partisan haze to admit it – or even see it.
Tom
March 13th, 2009
3:16 pm
Bosch, please quantify “fair share” when it comes to taxes……..since most who use that phrase never do so.
A breakdown of percentage paid by tier of earnings would be nice.
I Report/ You Whine
March 13th, 2009
3:16 pm
A- You whine and moan like ace highchair pilots for 8 solid years about everything, blaming it all on a sitting president, the weather was his fault, the roaring economy was his fault, enemy soldiers captured on the battlefield was his fault, he piloted the planes into the World Trade Center, the victory in Iraq was his fault, blah, blah, blah, and if he didn’t fail then you made appear as though he failed launching stupid, childish, goony propaganda attacks from all directions at men that were hundreds of times your betters all so that you fulfill your mindless quest for power from whence you could destroy the United States economy and write ignorant blog subjects direct from the fever swamps.
B- There is no B, ha.
Duuuhhhhh.
mike
March 13th, 2009
3:16 pm
Copyleft –
“What double standard? It’s hypocritical to favor policies I support, and oppose those I don’t?”
No, it is a double standard to accuse Bush of using 9/11 to push through unrelated policy, yet support Obama using the recession to push through unrelated policy.
mike
March 13th, 2009
3:18 pm
getalife –
So Obama is to be given credit for the stock market being up 10% in the past week.
Is he also to be blamed for the stock market being down 7.95% over the past month?
Which is it?
G
March 13th, 2009
3:19 pm
A! A! I vote A!!!!! I love everything about A!
mike
March 13th, 2009
3:21 pm
Bosch –
Yes, Tom’s idea would be nice. How much should folks be paying per income bracket for things to be “fair”.
BDAtlanta
March 13th, 2009
3:21 pm
St patty’s next week.
Gotta run home to make the Corn beef and cabbage tonight cause I’m out of town next week.
Corned Beef and cabbage…i am already drooling. Then with the leftovers you get the reuben sandwiches.
Oh lawdy, be still my beating heart (from all the cholesterol, of course)
G
March 13th, 2009
3:22 pm
Universal health care delivered through a single-payer system…I dream of this!
The Corporal
March 13th, 2009
3:23 pm
Jay – before you leave this afternoon, give us a decent thread to entertain us over the weekend. May I suggest the recent tragic shootings in this country and Germany?
mike
March 13th, 2009
3:25 pm
Copyleft –
“After all, it’s not like they care about America. Just their party.”
Let me guess. You are one of the many on the left who used to complain about having his patriotism questioned?
BDAtlanta
March 13th, 2009
3:28 pm
I Report,
the victory in Iraq? Ummm, have you not read the papers in the last 7 years?
Win, lose, draw, we are out 4,000+ American lives, billions of dollars, and what do we have to show for it?
What is our reward for winning? Bin Laden is still alive and well and hauling around his dialysis machine. Did we get some oil out of it? I guess you could say we got a lot of sand. Yes, proud owners of a sh*tload of sand.
TnGelding
March 13th, 2009
3:28 pm
Tom
March 13th, 2009
3:16 pm
I WAS THINKING LAST NIGHT IF EVERYONE WAS ALLOWED TO DETERMINE ON THEIR OWN WHAT THEIR FAIR SHARE WAS IT WOULD ELIMINATE A LOT OF PAPER WORK AND PROBABLY INCREASE REVENUE. THINK OF THE TIME AND MONEY SAVED BY NOT HAVING TO TRY TO COMPLY WITH THE TAX CODE.