Dole’s ‘Godless’ ad explained – sort of
Marty Ryall, the campaign manager for Elizabeth Dole’s unsuccessful Senate re-election campaign in North Carolina, explains in a piece at Politics Magazine how the Dole campaign came to run its infamous “Godless” ad, suggesting that Dole’s opponent was an atheist.
It’s an interesting piece for those into politics, but what struck me about it was its utter lack of reflection about the propriety of making religious belief a campaign issue. Ryall defends the hit piece as necessary under the circumstances, and he rejects charges that it cost Dole the election. But he gives no indication whatsoever that it was in any way inappropriate.
And for that reason alone, justice was done by Dole’s defeat.
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138 comments Add your comment
Copyleft
March 4th, 2009
4:09 pm
For a surprising number of Americans “godless” is a worse insult than “black,” “female,” or “Muslim.” Americans overwhelmingly reject a candidate based on this irrelevant “qualification” to a greater degree than any other demographic tag.
The notion that “atheist” could be used as an insult, much less a campaign weapon, is appalling to people who value freedom and call themsevles Americans.
Pogo
March 4th, 2009
4:37 pm
Jay,
So you’re offended by Dole using “Godless” in a campaign and by the “utter lack of reflection about the propriety of making religious belief a campaign issue”? This after you , the liberal simps on this blog and the Democratic Party in general have demonized anyone that is member of the intolerant “religous right” (i.e. Christians) to an almost fanatical degree for years. You are without a doubt the biggest hypocrit that has ever typed a word. As someone so astutely pointed out today, you have to write what your bigtime liberal boss wants and that makes you what Jay? It makes you an intellectual (word that rhimes with chore).
Redneck Convert
March 4th, 2009
4:43 pm
Well, my Daddy was a big bible-thumper and his Daddy was too. Heck, there was a big fist mark right in the middle of the fambly bible. We used that bible to prove we were right when anybody argued with us. We growed up beleiving a atheist was the worst kind of scum in the world and I reckon that’s right.
GodHatesTrash, Superstar
March 4th, 2009
4:45 pm
Pogo, you’re a Xian, right?
Forgive Bookman, and turn the other cheek. That’s what Jesus would do.
caz1158
March 4th, 2009
4:51 pm
Jay-I really don’t have a problem with anything Dole & co. said or did. It’s the campaign trail,does anyone really believe 90-95% of the crap that comes from it. Anything to get elected.Shame yes,but it’s all part of the game. Both parties are just as guilty. My suprise,is that there is suprise among the public.
I Report/ You Whine
March 4th, 2009
4:53 pm
If you don’t want to be called Godless then don’t be Godless, you heathens.
~~~~~
Is anyone else as thrilled as I am to see, now that the weather is halfway decent, that all of the losers have emerged from their filthy hovels and planted their fat, lazy &%$* right slam in the middle of rush hour, a whole slew of dimwits out to spend their Obamabucks?
America the beautiful, eh, a bunch of morons mindlessly cruising around belching smog, burning foreign oil so they can kill all of the unproductive, shiftless time they have on their hands.
The Rooskies are right, we’re doomed.
Debate101
March 4th, 2009
4:57 pm
If you want to be considered a Christian, then act like a Christian and stop calling everybody else Godless.
Dusty
March 4th, 2009
4:57 pm
Ah yes, religious beliefs…brings us back to the twenty years that Obama listened to the Rev.Jeremiah Wright and his beliefs. Wright was not godless, just anti-American. And that was his buddy Obama religiously listening.
Let’s bring that up again. It is more current on religious lines than Dole’s non-election and a mention of “Godless”.
mike
March 4th, 2009
5:05 pm
Does Bookman have any other purpose than to bash Republicans?
We get it Jay. You really, really, really don’t like Republicans. Any chance you might ever turn your attention to the party that holds the White House and both houses of Congress? Are you that confident in their work so far that you have not found one issue in which to criticize them?
fed up
March 4th, 2009
5:06 pm
Now Dusty you know Bookman is not going to bring up Jeremiah Wright at least not in the sense that he said or did anything wrong or that Obama was wrong in attending the church for 20 years but claims he never heard anything anti-American that Wright said.
caz1158
March 4th, 2009
5:09 pm
Dusty-I don’t have a problem with anyone’s religious or non-religious beliefs,as long as it’s not brought up in public or political area’s. In my opinion that should be for your house of worship! Wherever that may be,not in the public eye.
Joe Matarotz
March 4th, 2009
5:10 pm
Jay,
I’m thankful that you didn’t mention Rush in this column. Or was that an oversight? Surely that oaf had something to do with Dole’s defeat. You could have squeezed in another paragraph of your vapid ramblings.
Do you think before the year is out that you will actually write a newsworthy column?
lwwmm7
March 4th, 2009
5:11 pm
If there’s one thing I can’t stand it’s a bigot and finger-pionter trying to make other people think like them. We ought to round up all bigots and burn them after we whip them and call them dirty names. If you have any trouble deciding whether or not somebody is a bigot just ask me and I will tell you. If they don’t agree with me and Redneck Con, they must be a bigot and must be dealt with accordingly.
caz1158
March 4th, 2009
5:13 pm
And no I don’t believe what Rev Wright was spewin was religious. So to me that’s different. I stopped going to my church because because my preacher decided to start stumpin for his candidates during mass. I go to church to worship my GOD! All else can wait till later.
Debate101
March 4th, 2009
5:14 pm
Dusty – the Rev. Wright issue is just another point of how your “religious”/”unAmerican” antics can backfire on you. And that’s President Obama to YOU.
The people in this country are not going to stand for people being labled “Unamerican, Godless, Socialist, etc…”. The republicans threw all of that at President Obama and he’s still standing.
Shannon, M.Div.
March 4th, 2009
5:15 pm
The worst part to me about the “Godless” ad (and yes, there shouldn’t be a religious litmus test for elected officials) is that Sen. Hagan is a longtime Presbyterian and a former Sunday School teacher.
I and other progressives/liberals are tired of being demonized by the right as atheists or agnostics, when many of us are neither. I read the New Testament in Greek, do my best to live out my religious beliefs, and am unapologetic that those beliefs are what make me liberal. I grew up with a picture of G.H.W. Bush in my high school locker–seriously–and was reared a hardcore fundamentalist. When I started to think and read the Bible for myself, I realized that a lot of Scripture is ignored by so-called fundamentalists (when’s the last time you heard a minor prophet in church?).
Here are some facts. 1) There’s literally nothing about abortion in Scripture. There are verses about God knowing us from conception, and there is Old Testament evidence that the life of a pregnant woman was worth more than one life but significantly less than two (and causing her to miscarry was also not worth the price of a full life). 2) There’s nothing about an exclusive, monogamous homosexual relationship in Scripture, because there was no such thing in the cultures associated with Scripture. There is condemnation of homosexual behavior, but most men who were participating in it were men married to women. Make of that whatever you like, but it’s a fact. 3) There’s a LOT of condemnation of divorce for any reason other than adultery (including the direct words of Jesus). 4) There’s a LOT of condemnation of governments (particularly Israel in the OT) who failed to take care of their poor. 5) To people complaining about taxes, Jesus showed ‘em a coin and asked ‘em whose name that was–then told them to give back to Caesar what was Caesar’s.
So if you want to talk about Godless, I’ll give you Godless. There’s a “movement” out there that has replaced the God of the Bible and Jesus Christ with a God who wants lower taxes and who equates family values with the toleration of divorce. Well, that ain’t the God you can read about in the Greek and Hebrew. Maybe something got lost in translation.
@@
March 4th, 2009
5:23 pm
‘Ya schnooze ‘ya lose, jay and this column of yours is a real snoozer.
Campaign ads? Hmmmmmmm
O.K., howzbout the ads that Obama ran in states where presidential primaries had not yet been held? Like Florida for instance.
The 60-second commercial is aimed at introducing the Illinois senator in states that haven’t yet held their presidential contests.
The ad is running nationally and Obama’s campaign has refused to block it from running in Florida.
Clinton’s campaign has sent out a terse statement, alleging that it was “crystal clear” in its ban against any kind of campaign activity, except for raising campaign cash, in states like Florida that violated the national party’s calendar.
“There is no ambiguity,” the Clinton campaign said. The statement notes that the list of prohibited activities in the early-state pledge are “electronic advertising that reaches a significant percentage of the voters in the aforementioned state.”
“Senator Obama’s flagrant disregard for the pledge that he signed is disturbing and calls the integrity of the pledge into question,” Clinton’s statement reads.
Now ‘ya see ^^^ there, jay — that’s me standing up for a Democrat. I didn’t bother to change the tense from present to past. Just sharing a little wallow in the past, much like you.
Granted, there was no mention of God, unless, of course, you consider Obama to be yours. If so, yours is without integrity.
Dusty
March 4th, 2009
5:32 pm
How in the world can you discuss a politician’s beliefs, family, virtues,travels, taxes, donations, sexual innuendoes, police records, and fashions but skip over one of the main factors of personality..religion or non-religion???? Now you tell me.
I, too, believe politics should stay out of the pulpit. We go to church for renewal not politics. But how you keep religion out of politics I do not know. It is part of human nature to believe in “something”. If you don’t have religion you have something else to take its place. But it shows up whether you want it mentioned or not.
Godless or Godly? Politics are going to show it one way or another.
You are welcomed at my church. No political preaching. Come any time.
Midori
March 4th, 2009
5:34 pm
Every time the nuts get backed in a corner, they bring up Rev. Wright.
No matter the subject material.
What happened to Ayers? Acorn? Obama’s missing birth certificate?
Make it interesting, willya?
@@
March 4th, 2009
5:35 pm
Oops! Let me sign off with all those “well-thought” out names that the liberals here have assigned to me and other faithfuls.
Forever yours,
The knuckle dragging, bible-thumping, flat-earth, science denying, witch burning, neanderthalic, religious FANATIC?
There are probably quite a few more that I’ve forgotten.
Midori
March 4th, 2009
5:36 pm
I prefer “idiot”
@@
March 4th, 2009
5:39 pm
Now Midori, don’t be shy……you actually prefer the c-word when referring to your “fellow” females.
I Report/ You Whine
March 4th, 2009
5:40 pm
At a time of unprecedented threats to the United States, a time of financial collapse, bank failures and record layoffs, at a time when the credit crisis has not been solved, and the stock market is in free fall, at a time of stagnating wars, rising terrorism in Pakistan and growing nuclear potential in Iran, the White House has done the easy thing. It has asked the American people to focus their attention not on solving the problems, but on a big-mouthed entertainer in Florida. This may be smart politics. But it is also the same petty strategy that John McCain employed during the presidential campaign, the one that our new president promised to rise above.-Time Mag
Team OneTerm stoops to the challenge, hehehehehehehe.
small, mouthy little children all.
caz1158
March 4th, 2009
5:41 pm
Dusty- You and I differ on this,sorry. To me,someone’s religion does/does not dictate his/her ability to lead or govern. I don’t care about my neighbors,Boss/owner,or Sam the barbers religious beliefs. Why would I ask a Politician or care.
caz1158
March 4th, 2009
5:44 pm
Midori-Why is always about name calling when you don’t agree? As Ms Godzilla would say-You need a hug!!!
I Report/ You Whine
March 4th, 2009
5:45 pm
Was there any doubt that the Limbaugh fiasco would backfire on the dim bulbs at hopeandchange.duh?
Judging from the way that brave barry reacts to offhanded remarks made in the media, the drill sergeant in the last blog would have made him pee his little britches and pass out in fear.
Now he’s got a debate challenge that he can’t possibly accept because he’ll lose like a dog and he knows it.
Spanked!
Bud Wiser
March 4th, 2009
5:46 pm
Elizabeth Dole is a moron. She bankrupted the American Red Cross. She almost single-handedly destroyed the FAA. What’s left to figure out about her desperation?
On a more positive note, I have yet to see one, just one, response to my 943a post: “All I want is just one sign, one and one alone, across the entire span of this wonderful country, in economic, banking, job creation, real estate, anything, please, that Obama has actually done in his first six weeks that has had any positive effect or influence whatsoever on our current situation.”
My guess is: a. this is an impossible question to answer, because there is nothing he has done,
or: b. see a. above
Observer
March 4th, 2009
5:56 pm
Shannon, M.Div. – The “movement” the last paragraph of your post reminds me of is a bowel movement.
I Report/ You Whine
March 4th, 2009
5:56 pm
Yep, once again, Team Oblahmi has opened the door wide for the Repugs-
For the first five weeks of Barack Obama’s presidency, congressional Republicans sought to avoid direct confrontation with the popular president. (See here.)
No longer.
At a meeting of the Republican conference this morning, House Minority Leader John Boehner said that his party has an obligation to challenge Obama in a clear, unambiguous manner.
“There’s no point in ‘triangulation’ when it comes to this budget. It’s the President’s budget. His name is on it. It’s a bad budget, and we have a responsibility to tell the country that. We can do it respectfully – but we can do it, and we must.”
Time to show the dunces at hopeandchange.duh that Limbaugh does not run the Republican shop, make a name for yourselves, warriors.
HhoooooooRrrraahhhhhh!
@@
March 4th, 2009
6:00 pm
For Pajama Boy (P.J.) from downstairs:
By P.J. — @@ – 1. Correction to you. I did not say I knew him I said I knew of him. Read slowly so you will understand.
You read my prior post where I said I was off to do six at the track, didn’t you? What part of that post did YOU fail to understand. I come back to find you lounging in your P.J.s with this and ^^^ that:
2. Mainframe definition – Data processing with a fancy title.
No, that’s mainframe as in not what he calls “little sissy pcs”. Nothing personal, mind you.
To know or to know of! Obviously you know not of what you speak.
Mainframers get to call the shots — they’re that much in demand. A breed unto themselves, since the training of more has slipped through the cracks.
GodHatesTrash, Superstar
March 4th, 2009
6:07 pm
Midori keepin’ it simple for the simple. Well done.
Midori
March 4th, 2009
6:15 pm
Sir Trash: *bows*
Caz: who said I “didn’t” agree?
Midori
March 4th, 2009
6:24 pm
watch Joe Scarborough make fun of Steele:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/04/michael-steele-gets-repea_n_171750.html
Perhaps the GOP should be informed that Rush isn’t running things, huh?
However, we liberals feel your pain.
That’s why we invented this:
http://www.imsorryrush.com
Use it in good health.
Oh yeah – and HUGS all around!!
Ted Striker
March 4th, 2009
6:24 pm
This has nothing to do with anything — much — but has anyone else observed that a bill to prevent octuplet embryos is still being debated…while a Sunday alcohol sales bill is kaput.
And the people said Amen.
mike
March 4th, 2009
6:25 pm
GodHatesTrash -
Is your trailer staying warm up there? I’d hate to think that my favorite illiterate and inbred racist might be getting chilly.
@@
March 4th, 2009
6:25 pm
Midori:
I would say your 6:15 was a “good ‘un” but you defeat even your own best attempts.
My post to which caz was referring is nothing but liberal namecalling that I’ve experienced in at the keystrokes of liberals. Sooooooo…
you just admitted to being a fan of liberal namecalling, not that it makes any difference to me.
CommunistAJC
March 4th, 2009
6:26 pm
Bookman,
why do you insist on beating a dead horse? We all get it. You hate Rush, Republicans, Christians, Black Republicans, Transsexual Republicans, Republican Dolphins, Republican Braves Fans, Republican Brick Masons, Republican Photographers, Republican Chewbaccas and Han Solos, Republican Lamp Shades, Fox News Channel, Jonah Goldberg, Bernie Goldberg, Mr. Good bar, Puff the magic dragon, Loony Toons, Indiana Jones, Clark Howard, Ken Griffey Jr, Iron Man, Bat Man, Cobra Commander and many other Americans.
Midori
March 4th, 2009
6:28 pm
This is for Commie and his like minded ditto heads who keep proclaiming that waterboarding isn’t torture: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/video/2008/hitchens_video200808
Midori
March 4th, 2009
6:29 pm
Jay hates Iron Man?
the horror!!!
GodHatesTrash, Superstar
March 4th, 2009
6:30 pm
Stalker boy, plenty warm enough here at the house. Plenty of food (with no feces in it) to eat.
Why you hatin’ on trailers, whiner?
Eleanor Rigby
March 4th, 2009
6:31 pm
I guess hindsight is not 20/20. The Lee Atwater playbook is so 80’s. He should have gone with the “democrats are socialists and Obama is a Muslim” playbook. I really like they called her a carpetbagger. That’s funny.
I couldn’t read the entire article. It was so preposterous. How many words does it take to deflect blame?
CommunistAJC
March 4th, 2009
6:31 pm
Bookmans Hit List: George Washington, Jesse Helms, Billy Graham, Graham Crackers, Teddy Grahams, Alexander Graham Bell, Bell South, Dirty South, Dirty Dozen, A Dozen Eggs, The Easter Bunny, Steve Jobs, Captain Cave man, Captain Kangaroo, Chief Knockahoma, Chief Wigham, Sean Hannity, Johnny Cash, BJ and the Bear, Fall Guy, Macguyver, Magnum PI, Airwolf, Dukes of Hazzard, Knight Rider, Ford Mustangs, KFC, Wendys, Ronald Macdonald, The Hamburglar, Mayor McCheese, Coke, Pepsi, Homer Simpson, South Park, Earth Wind and Fire, Soul Train, Stevie Wonder and many more.
@@
March 4th, 2009
6:32 pm
Dangit! Take that “in” preceding the “at” outta my 6:25.
Geez! RW?
(IHB)
Mort Merkel
March 4th, 2009
6:32 pm
Heck, Dole ran a Godless ad when her campaign employed Satan – former Sonny Puredoo spokesrat Dan McLagan?
CommunistAJC
March 4th, 2009
6:33 pm
Midori,
cool, but I prefer bamboo shoots and screw drivers. Maybe a blow torch in there somewhere.
I Report/ You Whine
March 4th, 2009
6:33 pm
Look at this clown-
If you’ve ever watched any three nights of his show, you know that Olbermann went to Cornell. But he always forgets to mention that he went to the school that offers classes in milking and bovine management.-AnnCoulter
Outed!
B. Steal
March 4th, 2009
6:36 pm
In the wake of the Rev. Wright discreditation attempt, the Rovian religious bashing tactic was used, by an obvious amatuer, at the state level. It failed. You would think the stategist would get it.
But no. The pios superiority angle will be attempted again soon. It will fail again.
RW-(the original)
March 4th, 2009
6:42 pm
I report/You whine,
You know who else used to tell us over and over that he went to Cornell? Sybil bon finchie.
@@,
I can make the in before the at go away on my computer, but I can’t make it go away on anybody else’s.
Eleanor Rigby
March 4th, 2009
6:43 pm
Shannon, that was beautiful. I’ve always said Jesus was a liberal. Well, actually I said he was a hippy but some people might think that’s an insult. It’s not.
mike
March 4th, 2009
6:44 pm
Trash -
I’m not hating on trailers. I know that ignorant and inbred rednecks like yourself are not capable of earning enough to get a real house and I wouldn’t want a toothless racist like yourself to have to stay with Maw for a second longer than she can stand. Hope that whatever you shot for dinner in the trailer park is keeping that beer gut of yours full, but not too full. Don’t want you to outgrow your best barrel.