Tapes destroyed of torture that never happened
President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and others insisted that the United States did not use torture. Others have suggested that while torture may have been used in isolated instances against particularly important subjects, its use was limited.
However, it appears that the problem may have been far more widespread than has been acknowledged until now.
“WASHINGTON (AP) — New documents show the CIA destroyed nearly 100 tapes of terror interrogations, far more than has previously been acknowledged.
The revelation Monday comes as a criminal prosecutor is wrapping up his investigation in the matter.
The acknowledgment of dozens of destroyed tapes came in a letter filed by government lawyers in New York, where the American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit seeking more details of the Bush administration’s terror interrogation programs following the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks.
“The CIA can now identify the number of videotapes that were destroyed,” said the letter by Acting U.S. Attorney Lev Dassin. “Ninety two videotapes were destroyed.”‘
Surely those 92 tapes would have been extremely useful to the CIA and to Bush administration officials in proving their claim that torture was never or rarely used. Yet they were destroyed in direct violation of both a court order and a request by the 9/11 commission for any information about events leading up to those attacks.
Why would the administration order the destruction of evidence that would presumably clear it of allegations of torture? You don’t suppose….
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145 comments Add your comment
Tom
March 2nd, 2009
2:18 pm
Good question, Jay. But of course, we all know the answer. It seems to be genetic with…those people.
Mrs. Godzilla
March 2nd, 2009
2:28 pm
Tapes….again with the tapes.
Another example of old Republican ideas that don’t work out so well.
CommunistAJC
March 2nd, 2009
2:31 pm
Bush should have ordered ALL the suspects tortured.
RW-(the original)
March 2nd, 2009
2:31 pm
Admittedly this sounds suspicious on the surface, but I’m also 99.9999% certain our humble host has done no research whatsoever looking for mitigating circumstances. Perhaps I’ll go have a look for some myself, but this seems like something I Report/You Whine or @@ will have readily available.
Citizen of the World
March 2nd, 2009
2:38 pm
I don’t know why the Bush Administration would want to destroy evidence of using torture when they could use it to rally the party faithful like Communist @2:31. Vote Republican in 2012 — we torture!
CommunistAJC
March 2nd, 2009
2:43 pm
Citizen of the World,
water boarding is not torture. No one gets hurt, no skin or bones are broken, and the suspect goes on his merry way. If I wanted torture I would just watch Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid talk.
ByteMe
March 2nd, 2009
2:45 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/washington/07intel.html
This was reported earlier when the CIA acknowledged that “a few” tapes were destroyed. This info release is about the actual number of tapes… which far exceeds “a few”. The logic behind destroying the tapes makes some sense in the spook world, but the fact that the CIA admits that the tapes were destroyed after they determined they had little ongoing intelligence value… well, that’s one for an open-ended debate, huh?
Fawn Hall
March 2nd, 2009
2:46 pm
It was an accident. I thought they were old movies.
ByteMe
March 2nd, 2009
2:49 pm
Commie says: water boarding is not torture
I’m sure you are making this claim from personal experience, having an MBA from Duke and all.
Observer
March 2nd, 2009
2:53 pm
I don’t know that anyone (Bush and Cheney included if they had the luxury of speaking candidly) would deny that we employed torture in our interrogation of several terrorist detainees. I also don’t think that anyone (Pelosi and company included if they had the luxury of speaking candidly) would deny that some VERY valuable intelligence was gathered through the use of torture. This leads us down the very slippery slope of whether the ends justified the means.
I, for one, am a conservative that thinks torture was almost certainly overused. However, while I make no claim to knowing where to draw the line, I do believe there are times where its use may be warranted.
Issues like this make me glad I am not the person in the oval office having to make the decisions. These issues, while they may seem simple to us in the blogasphere, are anything but. During the next four years, Obama will have his share of moral dilemmas to decide. I hope he is judged with more compassion than his predecessor.
TnGelding
March 2nd, 2009
2:53 pm
Nah, not in America, land of the free and home of the brave.
CommunistAJC
March 2nd, 2009
2:54 pm
ByteMe,
explain how water boarding IS torture. Oh and ByteMe, my MBA is helping this rich white guy make a lot of money.
Anyhoo, this is even funnier.
Pelosi Snowed-Out of Global Warming Rally
Monday, March 02, 2009
By Josiah Ryan and Ryan Byrnes
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) had to cancel an appearance Monday at a global warming rally in Washington, D.C., that was hit by a snowstorm because her flight was delayed, her office told CNSNews.com.
Brianna Cayo-Cotter, the spokesman for the Energy Action Coalition that held the rally, told a group of reporters that she had been in contact with Pelosi and that her flight had been delayed because of inclement weather.
A blizzard Sunday night and early Monday morning blanketed the nation’s capital with snow, causing events to be cancelled and delayed across the city.
House Select Energy Independence and Global Warming Chairman Edward Markey (D-Mass.), who was scheduled to speak at the global warming event, also canceled his appearance because of the inclement weather, a spokesman from his committee’s office told CNSNews.com on Monday.
Speaker Pelosi’s office confirmed to CNSNews.com that her flight had been delayed, but they could not say where the flight was coming from or whether she was flying commercial or charter.
According to a press notification released by the Speaker’s office on Friday, both lawmakers were scheduled to appear on the West Lawn of the U.S. Capitol at 11:30AM Monday.
“In her remarks, the Speaker will discuss the progress made and the next steps to green the House of Representatives through the Green the Capitol initiative,” said the press release.
CommunistAJC
March 2nd, 2009
2:57 pm
BitME, yeah, this definition of torture should help your peanut of a brain out a bit. Notice the words AGONY and PAIN. So, explain how water boarding is painful.
TOTURE: the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.
2. a method of inflicting such pain.
3. Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.
4. extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
5. a cause of severe pain or anguish.
gttim
March 2nd, 2009
3:00 pm
I also don’t think that anyone (Pelosi and company included if they had the luxury of speaking candidly) would deny that some VERY valuable intelligence was gathered through the use of torture.
Actually it is commonly acknowledged that torture does not get you valuable intelligence. It gets you lies and half truths. It gets you what you want to hear, not what the actual truth may be.
Jay
March 2nd, 2009
3:01 pm
Waterboarding is clearly and without question torture under federal and international law. The intent and effect of waterboarding is to make the subject believe that he or she is drowning.
Federal, law, 18 U.S.C. Section 2340-2340A, states:
“As used in this chapter –
(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under
the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical
or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering
incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his
custody or physical control;
(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged
mental harm caused by or resulting from –
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of
severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened
administration or application, of mind-altering substances or
other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or
the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be
subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the
administration or application of mind-altering substances or
other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or
personality.
ByteMe
March 2nd, 2009
3:05 pm
Commie: even with your MBA, you still don’t know the difference between weather and climate. Go try a better school.
As for waterboarding: again, you claim it’s not torture, but you try to leave out what waterboarding is… a method for convincing someone that they are drowning so that you can obtain likely false information — or maybe just get your jollies from watching it. Let’s do it to you and see if you think it’s torture, huh? I’m already claiming — as do many people well-versed in interrogation techniques — that it is indeed infliction of emotional PAIN AND AGONY on someone. But you claim it’s not, so let’s hear about your personal experience with it and how you thought it was a great time.
BDAtlanta
March 2nd, 2009
3:05 pm
Why would you tape a torture session?…duh
And these are our intelligence officers?
Just close the door, get your information, leave the room. Done
rcs
March 2nd, 2009
3:07 pm
Destroyed when? By whom? Under what circumstances?
Tell me how the “dumbest president in history” has managed to pull off all these despicable acts.
Richard Nixon was the most intelligent president and he didn’t burn his tapes.
Bill Dewey
March 2nd, 2009
3:08 pm
I think the clumsy secretary held down the wrong key on the recorder. I’m inviting Communist to my waterboarding party where he can be the waterboardee.
Midori
March 2nd, 2009
3:09 pm
Tell me how the “dumbest president in history” has managed to pull off all these despicable acts.
I wasn’t aware that one had to be “intelligent” in order to pull despicable acts?
Sleaze is sleaze.
Taxpayer
March 2nd, 2009
3:10 pm
The reason for the destruction of those tapes is obvious — Bush just did not have any more shelf space available in his Presidential Library. You know, that library where he plans to store all things “presidential” about his legacy. I offered him a shoebox but I guess he’s holding out for something a little more ornate.
CommunistAJC
March 2nd, 2009
3:10 pm
Jay,
water boarding is not torture because no one gets hurt. Nancy Pelosi used to bitch about loud music being torture but it isn’t. I mean, your blogs are more torture than water boarding.
ByteMe,
again, my MBA has made me a lot of money. HA HA HA. The fact that Global Scamming marches are canceled due to winter storms is laughable. You idiots can’t even define global warming. Now you guys are calling it climate change. Oh, and I don’t give a rats a$$ if islamic terrorists caught on the battlefield are tortured. They get wonderful treatment in GITMO. Nice food, well kept cells etc…
I Report/ You Whine
March 2nd, 2009
3:11 pm
Oh boy, aren’t the capitalists just enthralled with president One Term’s new budget toy?-
Wall Street Tumbles Anew as Financials Slide; Dow Below 6,800- AP
Shoulda listened to Rush Limbaugh…………..bozos.
bwa
rcs
March 2nd, 2009
3:13 pm
Good one Taxpayer. First chuckle I had today.
Midori, it requires some bit of intelligence. Haven’t you ever watched World’s Dumbest Criminals on TruTV?
Cindy
March 2nd, 2009
3:13 pm
Jay is a hell of a lot smarter than CommunistAJC. Where do you get your “facts” Commie?
RW-(the original)
March 2nd, 2009
3:14 pm
Some of the finest legal minds in this country struggle with whether or not waterboarding is torture. Isn’t it amazing that an opinion writer in a small time “news”paper can state without equivocation that it is “clearly and without question” torture.
Simply amazing!
I think I’ll go try the driveway again. Later!
BDAtlanta
March 2nd, 2009
3:14 pm
Jay,
You should know facts, legal documents, items of substance,etc will never convince Commie otherwise.
Commie doesn’t operate in the world of facts…he only entertains the world of make believe….Or whatever Rush is telling him to think that particular day.
Midori
March 2nd, 2009
3:14 pm
Cindy: one guess
CommunistAJC
March 2nd, 2009
3:15 pm
Cindy,
which facts Cindy? Oh, my dog is a lot smarter than you Cindy.
I Report/ You Whine
March 2nd, 2009
3:15 pm
Did anybody else notice that Bookman’s 3:01clearly defines waterboarding as NOT being a form of torture?
Midori
March 2nd, 2009
3:15 pm
RCS – I watch quite a bit of TruTV.
your point?
Some of those guys are dumber than a box of bricks.
CommunistAJC
March 2nd, 2009
3:16 pm
BDAtlanta,
I posted the definition of the word torture. Again, no one is hurt when they are waterboarded.
Midori,
again, you are the cheerleader. Not a single thing to add but you are good at sitting on the sidelines.
Midori
March 2nd, 2009
3:17 pm
Cindy,
he neglected to add that his dog has an MBA from Spotsylvania U — also Bullwinkle’s alma mater.
Observer
March 2nd, 2009
3:17 pm
ByteMe writes, “waterboarding is… a method for convincing someone that they are drowning so that you can obtain likely false information”
Yeah, I’ll bet you pulled that definition right out of the CIA policies & procedures manual.
As for the false information claim, do you think it’s been by accident that there have been no additional terrorist attacks since 9/11? One waterboarding episode yielded intel on a credible threat to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge. If only they had known the purpose of their exercise was to gather “likely false” information…
BDAtlanta
March 2nd, 2009
3:20 pm
Taxpayer,
I will donate some crayons to the Bush Preznit Library. Can anyone donate coloring books? Any takers?
Taxpayer
March 2nd, 2009
3:22 pm
It’s a Rocky road to Bullwinkle’s alma mater, Midori — a long drive and very Borish.
rcs
March 2nd, 2009
3:24 pm
Midori, my point is Bush would have to be smarter than a box of bricks to commit the acts he’s been accused of.
Paul
March 2nd, 2009
3:24 pm
Jay
[[Why would the administration order the destruction of evidence that would presumably clear it of allegations of torture?]]
Didn’t see anything in the synopsis, or in the expanded article I read this morning, that indicated “the administration ordered…”
I can easily see this scenario: CIA agents (I use the term to mean anyone in the CIA. They’re all agents, don’tcha’ know?) talking. Take note of all the calls for ‘torture investigations.’ Observe Spkr Pelosi and her associates were for torture before they were against it. Noted the Administration had given them what they thought was legal cover (the great, big out in the USC referenced above). Someone says ‘what about the tapes?’ They’d studied the transcripts and passed on the information to relevant agencies, then gone back and crosschecked in light of new information (answer to the question of why the sessions are recorded). Someone else notes that many of the detainees wailed, cried, cursed, screamed… did a lot of things that showed they were uncomfortable or felt insulted – violations of the new anti-torture standard embraced by the current administration. Someone else notes, “aw, hell, we did what they wanted and now they’re hanging us out to dry. Even if nothing’s on there someone will find something and use us as a punching bag.” Someone else says “couldn’t happen if they didn’t have the tapes.”
Entirely plausible. Even probable. Without anybody ordering anyone to do anything.
Pat
March 2nd, 2009
3:24 pm
Looks like Cheney did take away one key lesson from Watergate – destroy all evidence of criminal activity. Guess they’re not as stupid as they seem – just criminal and willfully ignorant.
ByteMe
March 2nd, 2009
3:25 pm
Oh, and Commie: your pathetic name-calling only convinces people that you have a weak argument and can’t justify or clarify your thoughts without resorting to juvenile taunting. Go back to school, only this time pick one where you actually get an education.
Midori
March 2nd, 2009
3:26 pm
Taxpayer:
Eenie, meanie, chili beanie
CommunistAJC
March 2nd, 2009
3:26 pm
ByteMe,
you’ve yet to inform me just how water boarding is torture. Instead you’ve gone down the typical liberal road of insults. I’m just playing your game. Oh, and yes, you have penis envy, or in your case MBA envy because you are the one who brought it up.
ByteMe
March 2nd, 2009
3:26 pm
rcs: Bush didn’t destroy the tapes and the head of the CIA was pretty pissed when he found out they were destroyed by the D/Ops.
ByteMe
March 2nd, 2009
3:26 pm
Midori: Are they friendly?
CommunistAJC
March 2nd, 2009
3:27 pm
ByteMe,
I posted facts that waterboarding does not fit the definition of torture. Again, you have not proven otherwise.
Sam
March 2nd, 2009
3:27 pm
Yawn, I’m tired. I think I’ll take a shower to wake my self up.
NO WAIT!!!! I would be torturing myself……Quick, call Amnesty International, Greenpeace, etc…have them force the water company to shut off the taps.
ByteMe
March 2nd, 2009
3:28 pm
Poor Commie. Still hasn’t explained about his personal experience with waterboarding, still resorts to name-calling to make his “case” and then blames “liberals” for doing it first. Pathetic. Go spend all your riches on a real education.
Taxpayer
March 2nd, 2009
3:29 pm
I was thinking about teaching a class at Duke U. Button-Pushing 101. For the class to truly appreciate all the benefits that can be obtained with nothing more than a few appropriately chosen words, I was thinking about hiring an assistant — Commie, are you free for an MWF 10-11 time slot?
CommunistAJC
March 2nd, 2009
3:29 pm
ByteMe,
let me ask you this question like I’d ask a third grader.
How is water boarding considered torture?
Sam
March 2nd, 2009
3:31 pm
BTW, Jay’s just trying to divert attention away from HIS president Barry that the stock market has tumbled 25% since his inauguration.
It’s on HIM!!!!