The Fairness Doctrine is still dead

Many conservatives have been downright certain the Democrats were going to try to  revive the Fairness Doctrine and thus silence right-wing talk radio. Why did they think that? Because right-wing talk radio hosts told them to think it, hoping to stoke the paranoia of their audience.

This week, however, the Senate voted overwhelmingly to once again kill the long-dead doctrine. I’ll even quote Fox News on the subject, just to fend off any claims that the vote is some left-wing media fabrication:

“The Senate approved an amendment Thursday that would outlaw the so-called “Fairness Doctrine,” an off-the-books policy that once required broadcasters to air opposing viewpoints on controversial issues.

Republican Sen. Jim DeMint’s amendment passed by a wide margin of 87-to-11. The South Carolina senator had attached his proposal, called the Broadcaster Freedom Act, to a bill to give the District of Columbia a voting representative in the House.”

Of course, I’m under no illusion that the vote will halt claims from the right that Fairness Doctrine is coming back. Paranoia, by definition, is immune to facts.

Interestingly, though, more and more folks on the right are coming to understand just how damaging talk-radio has become to their cause. They don’t come out and say it, but you get the sense that they might support reviving the Fairness Doctrine just to break the grip of Rush Limbaugh and his copycats on their movement’s message.

For example, conservative pundit John Derbyshire, who normally writes in National Review, has a provocative piece in the latest edition of American Conservative magazine, headlined “How Radio Wrecks the Right:”

“There is nothing wrong with lowbrow conservatism. It’s energizing and fun. What’s wrong is the impression fixed in the minds of too many Americans that conservatism is always lowbrow, an impression our enemies gleefully reinforce when the opportunity arises.

Thus a liberal like E.J. Dionne can write, “The cause of Edmund Burke, Leo Strauss, Robert Nisbet and William F. Buckley Jr. is now in the hands of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity. … Reason has been overwhelmed by propaganda, ideas by slogans.”

Talk radio has contributed mightily to this development.

It does so by routinely descending into the ad hominem—Feminazis instead of feminism—and catering to reflex rather than thought. Where once conservatism had been about individualism, talk radio now rallies the mob. “Revolt against the masses?” asked Jeffrey Hart. “Limbaugh is the masses.”

In place of the permanent things, we get Happy Meal conservatism: cheap, childish, familiar.”

Derbyshire’s last line is downright plaintive: “Why have we allowed carny barkers to run away with the Right?”

Damn fine question.

222 comments Add your comment

DB, Gwinnettian

February 27th, 2009
1:50 pm

But what of Generalissimo Franco?

Mort Merkel

February 27th, 2009
1:53 pm

Fine question, indeed. And a big contributor to the downfall of the Republican party.

DB, Gwinnettian

February 27th, 2009
2:03 pm

TnGelding

February 27th, 2009
2:08 pm

You’ve really done it now, Jay. Should make for some entertaining reading later. Nothing like a rainy day to take a nap.

Seems like they always have to have bogie man.

BDAtlanta

February 27th, 2009
2:09 pm

Hannity is going to blow a gasket on the air one of these days.

You know it’s coming. Rush, on the other hand is quite sedate (drugs?) with any situation as long as the checks roll in. Hannity seems more like he is on a mission…

Taxpayer

February 27th, 2009
2:11 pm

Well, if Rush or Hannity or any of those new defacto leaders of the minority party want to run in the next Republican primary, they can rest assured that they have my vote. The last thing that I would want to do is suggest that Rush is a big mouth arrogant a$$ that’s just in the biz of showing his a$$ for the advancement of his a$$-kicking bank account that he has managed to amass off the a$$es of his loyal Republican minority party following. Why, it’s free-market capitalism at its finest.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
2:17 pm

Jay Bookman,
I still don’t quite understand how Rush hijacked conservatism. He doesn’t write policy nor does he vote in congress. It’s like me saying that Keith Olbermann hijacked the Democrat party. Doesn’t add up. It’s really quite simple, if you don’t like Rush, turn the channel off. He’s on the radio.

Here is a better headline: THE AJC IS STILL A DYING NEWSPAPER.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
2:19 pm

Bookman,
do you even understand why many conservatives think that the democrats are going to bring back the Fairness Doctrine? Let me clue you in. HERE GOES. IT’S BECAUSE DEMOCRATS LIKE NANCY PELOSI AND BILL CLINTON BRING IT UP! It’s not some “right-wing” conspiracy that somehow keeps you up at night. Get a clue Bookman because your newspaper is headed the way of the dinosaurs. And so are you.

getalife

February 27th, 2009
2:21 pm

It was a good distraction.

Funny how fiscal cons are against nation building in our country but gave w a blank check in Iraq.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
2:25 pm

getalife,
democrats gave Bush a blank check. Get your facts straight before posting BS.

Paul W.

February 27th, 2009
2:25 pm

Jay your constant referrals to Limbaugh as the leader of the Republicans is nothing but an attempt to create a straw man. Limbaugh is correct more often than not, but he is on the air so much that someone is always able to blast him with a quote taken out of context.

We have doubled the accumulated national debt of 230 years in a month! Because I agree with Rush that this is taking us on the slippery slope of socialism doesn’t mean that I wasn’t capable of making that observation on my own.

With that said, I would still rather follow Rush than Nancy.

radiowxman

February 27th, 2009
2:33 pm

I would like to thank Mr. Derbyshire for pointing out the lowest common denominator that pervades talk radio these days.

I’m also glad that liberals are showing us how to be the bigger person on blogs and discussion boards like this. No need for name calling and 5-year old insults when you’ve got the ideas on your side!

Brad Steal

February 27th, 2009
2:35 pm

The parrot shills that feel oddly driven to follow Jay’s columns(strangely absent to this enty, except Paul W.) are fine examples of the Happy Meal idea spewers that guarantee long-term democrat dominance. This is unfortunante. what was once a moment with a strong articulate voice is now the refuge of fat white guys who do little other than parrot shrill AM radio fat white guys.

Taxpayer

February 27th, 2009
2:37 pm

I didn’t know our national debt was now 22 trillion. Is that what Rush is spewing. Well, in all fairness, that’s a lie.

GayGrayGeek

February 27th, 2009
2:38 pm

Commie, when we went to Iraq YOUR party controlled Congress as well as the executive.

We all realize that it makes you RightWingNuts feel better to blame All Ills Everywhere on the Democratic party, but in this case you’re full to the brim with caca del toro

Joey

February 27th, 2009
2:41 pm

Jay’s theory is that all Republicans live in fear of the Fairness Doctrine, but isn’t this the 4th time in about two weeks that Jay has posted a commentary about this.

If Jay is correct then Republicans are to the Fairness Doctrine as Democrats are to Bush Derangement Syndrome. Which is more sad?

getalife

February 27th, 2009
2:41 pm

Looks like 20 people showed up for the tea party in DC.

Embarrassing.

Paul W.

February 27th, 2009
2:41 pm

AJC Communist, you are right. It is easy to make fun of Rush, but he isn’t running the party. That just makes for good ridicule.

You are absolutely CORRECT that we must be diligent about the Fairness Doctrine because Clinton and Pelosi have stated clearly that they support it. The right is being called paranoid because they want us to let our guard down. Part of our trip to minority status is that the elected GOP officials listen to the left’s criticism too much. If they are trying to deceive is, we need to ignore them; if it is their sincere belief, we just don’t care what they think.

Two thinks are going to happen next; Obama’s attempts to stimulate the economy will fail miserably, and he and the rest of the dems will be tossed out on their buts; or, these stupid gestures will work, and I’ll join the donkey party.

Mike

February 27th, 2009
2:43 pm

Jay –

Just curious. You refer to folks as “right-wing” a lot. Do you consider yourself a “left-wing” pundit?

Goldie

February 27th, 2009
2:44 pm

It’s the “carny barkers” AND the holy-rolling religious nuts who’ve hijacked the Repug Party — that makes for quite a circus! Maybe they should rename themselves the “Circus Party” while they try to re-brand for 2010.

Mike

February 27th, 2009
2:44 pm

“I’m also glad that liberals are showing us how to be the bigger person on blogs and discussion boards like this.”

LOL

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
2:45 pm

GayGrayGeek,
EXPLAIN THIS!

“[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” — From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

“This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” — From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

“Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities” — From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002

“Saddam’s goal … is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed.” — Madeline Albright, 1998

“(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983″ — National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998

“Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement.” — Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability.” — Robert Byrd, October 2002

“There’s no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat… Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He’s had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001… He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn’t have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we.” — Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

“What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad’s regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs.” — Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

“The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow.” — Bill Clinton in 1998

“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.” — Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

“I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out.” — Clinton’s Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

“Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people.” — Tom Daschle in 1998

“Saddam Hussein’s regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal.” — John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

“The debate over Iraq is not about politics. It is about national security. It should be clear that our national security requires Congress to send a clear message to Iraq and the world: America is united in its determination to eliminate forever the threat of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction.” — John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

“I share the administration’s goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction.” — Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

“Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” — Al Gore, 2002

“We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.” — Bob Graham, December 2002

“Saddam Hussein is not the only deranged dictator who is willing to deprive his people in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction.” — Jim Jeffords, October 8, 2002

“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.” — Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

“There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein’s regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed.” — Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

“I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force – if necessary – to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.” — John F. Kerry, Oct 2002

“The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation.” — John Kerry, October 9, 2002

“(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. …And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War.” — John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.” — Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002

“Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for the United States.” — Joe Lieberman, August, 2002

“Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. During 1991 – 1994, despite Iraq’s denials, U.N. inspectors discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq’s claims about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past, there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass destruction.” — Patty Murray, October 9, 2002

“As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” — Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

“Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production.” — Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources — something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.” — John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

“Saddam’s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq’s enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East.” — John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

“Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration’s policy towards Iraq, I don’t think there can be any question about Saddam’s conduct. He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are simply the facts.” — Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002

Mike

February 27th, 2009
2:47 pm

CommunistAJC -

You can always hear the crickets chirp after that list is posted. I’ve never seen anyone even try to respond to that.

I Report/ You Whine

February 27th, 2009
2:48 pm

Tell us Bookman, how exactly does your column vary from Limbaugh’s radio show, well besides the 30,000,000 listeners you and Derbyshire don’t have?

Please explain why you never whine about Keith Blowberman or Jon Stewdirt?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

WhoCares

February 27th, 2009
2:49 pm

Who Cares? ….Next

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
2:49 pm

Bookman,
the AJC really needs to get a new writer. You’ve obviously run out of topics. About two weeks ago I predicted what your next topic would be that day. Sarah Palin it was.

List of Jay Bookman’s topics: Rush is stupid, Bush is a monkey, Sarah Palin is a hillbilly from Alaska, The GOP is full of racists, Barrack Obama is the bestest most awesomist person in the universe, Bill Clinton is second awesomist, Capitalism is bad, Reagan was a socialist (opps you already wrote that crap), Christians are evil and Muslims are cool. Does that sum you up, Bookman?

Taxpayer

February 27th, 2009
2:51 pm

Yup, Commie does have a knack for putting us all to sleep.

I Report/ You Whine

February 27th, 2009
2:52 pm

Besides which, as usual, the democrats lie-

Senators have adopted an amendment offered by Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-IL) to the D.C. House Voting Rights Act (S. 160) by a vote of 57 to 41.

The amendment would direct that the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) “shall take action to encourage and promote diversity in communication media ownership.” Republicans argue that this broad language could pave the way for aspects of the Fairness Doctrine to be implemented at some point.

Fairness doctrines of different names are still Fairness doctrines.

duh

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
2:52 pm

Mike,
its’ because journalism has turned into one-sided hypocrisy. Bookman and the rest of the media are Obama’s henchmen. I’ve read plenty of postings from libs about how mean the republican voters are to Obama YET for 8 years they called Bush stupid. Libs don’t care about facts. Just ask Jay, who probably gets his confidence from a NYTimes poll. I say let’s do a poll on Jay Bookman articles. He’d be in for a real shocker. .0000000000001% of the public would know who he is.

Philcmh

February 27th, 2009
2:53 pm

You can portray conservatives as out of touch, paranoid fools all you want. You can believe your liberal redistribution policies will lead the country to nirvana. Time however is the enemy. Time will show how fanciful and empty the liberal dreams are.

The “Fairness Doctrine has been declared dead”, but like all the other illusions the mainstream media hopes to portray, the truth is in Dick Durbin’s latest piece of legislation which places limits on radio station ownership. Other legislation will soon follow. But you won’t report it.

G

February 27th, 2009
2:53 pm

Rush, the Pillboy, will undoubtedly receive higher ratings with President Obama in the White House. He should be thanking him for winning.

It seemed as though the poor man had a tough time scrounging up talking points for the last 8 years – couldn’t talk about how popular Bush and Cheney were becoming. The Ditto Heads were probably starved for some good sleaze.

It’s sad that Pillboy doesn’t realize how he divides the country with his rhetoric. On the other hand, he gets paid well enough to drink $500 bottles of wine and smoke premium cigars in his Florida mansion so I wonder if maybe he just doesn’t give a d@mn?

As for Hannity, O’Roilly, Drudge, Coulter and the rest of that gang – they’re going to have to re-invent themselves – not unlike the Rushpublicant party itself. What do they stand for? Does anyone know at this point?

Restoring the Fairness Doctrine would not have stopped the right wing propaganda machine. The “Fair & Balanced” channel is a perfect example of why not…

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
2:54 pm

Taxpayer,
I have a knack for putting you to sleep? If you mean, your ridiculous liberal theological lies, then yes, I do put them to sleep. Don’t blame me for your lack of not having a rebuttal. If you want to debate then great, if not, shut up.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
2:56 pm

G,
Rush had high ratings even when W was in office. Drudge became the worlds biggest internet news source when it broke Clintons semen debacle with a 19 year old girl.

BDAtlanta

February 27th, 2009
2:58 pm

Both sides voted for the war. But it was the Republicans in power at the time. Of course, it took some lil’ ole white lies to get the Dems to go along with the vote for war…

Reading through Commies comment you can connect the dots between the lies told by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, etc, as Democrat leaders attempted to rationalize the case for war by using the bogus information given to them by the intelligence community.

Mike

February 27th, 2009
2:59 pm

CommunistAJC -

I actually know have a lot of liberal friends who care about facts and are quite intelligent. I certainly don’t let folks like Taxpayer, Midori, AmVet, Trash etc delude me into thinking that all liberals share their ignorance. There are plenty of conservatives who are as uninterested in facts as they are.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:00 pm

Clint Eastwood, probably only behind John Wayne and Charlton Heston in Hollywood icons, has this to say about political correctness. Suck on that all of you whiny girly liberal weenies!

Eastwood thinks political correctness has made society humourless.

London, February 27 (ANI): Acting legend Clint Eastwood , 79, apparently believes that political correctness has rendered modern society humourless, for he accuses younger generations of spending too much time trying to avoid being offensive.

The Dirty Harry star insists that he should be able to tell harmless jokes about nationality without fearing that people may brand him “a racist”.

“People have lost their sense of humour. In former times we constantly made jokes about different races. You can only tell them today with one hand over your mouth or you will be insulted as a racist,” the Daily Express quoted him as saying.

“I find that ridiculous. In those earlier days every friendly clique had a ‘Sam the Jew’ or ‘Jose the Mexican’ – but we didn’t think anything of it or have a racist thought. It was just normal that we made jokes based on our nationality or ethnicity. That was never a problem. I don’t want to be politically correct.

We’re all spending too much time and energy trying to be politically correct about everything,” he added. (ANI)

Bosch

February 27th, 2009
3:00 pm

Mike and Commie,

Those are quotes from the time of or many years prior to (from what I saw up to five).

And you are wrong that no one has never addressed that because I have – last week sometime I think, and here was basically my response.

Yes, the Democrats in Congress did vote to go into Iraq – not all of them, and not all Republicans either – Lincoln Chaffee didn’t vote to go in.

That’s all fine and good – they voted to go into Iraq because they perceived him as a threat. But as it turned out, he wasn’t. So my goodness, whose to blame? Well, all of them. Some of us on the left don’t dispute that.

And yes, they voted on them to go into Iraq – but what they didn’t vote on was Bush and his cronies being complete dumbasses and fouling up the war and occupation so much, spending trillions of dollars (they were told the Iraqis would pay for it with their oil money) and costing thousands of soldiers lives as well as countless thousands of Iraqis lives.

Yes, war is hell, and people get killed, and it costs alot of money – so when you decide to go to war, you better be damn sure that your information is right (which it wasn’t) and you also better have specifics goals and exit strategies (which they didn’t).

The management of the war was not on Congress – it was on Bush – and he completely blew it.

Chirp, chirp.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:01 pm

Mike,
I also have liberal friends, but sadly, they only watch Katie Couric and Chris Matthews.

Mike

February 27th, 2009
3:02 pm

BDAtlanta -

Oh please. Here are plenty of quotes from before Bush was in office:

“One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.” –President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.” –President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

“Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.” –Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

“He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.” –Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

“[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” Letter to President Clinton, signed by: — Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

“Hussein has … chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.” — Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

Are we really to believe that Hillary didn’t come into this thing with her own set of beliefs based on her years in the White House.

There is no doubt that Republicans led the charge, but claiming that the Democrats who supported this action were tricked into it absolves them of their responsibility.

caz1158

February 27th, 2009
3:02 pm

Jay-if it was just a wacky rightwing rumor started by rightwing radio hosts,then why did they even have a vote? Seems like there was a call for the fairness doctrine from somewhere. Or does the left really FEAR rightwing talk show hosts that much? And do they yeild that much power?

Bosch

February 27th, 2009
3:03 pm

Hey, cool – we may get to buy booze on Sundays soon.

Yeah!

AmVet

February 27th, 2009
3:03 pm

I believe there wera bout five or six of the lame brained Democrats who wanted to revive that stupidity. As far as I can tell that means that about 500 others in Washington did not. DeMint is just another HeadRush lackey and neo-con proving himself a gadfly and a huge waste of time in a time when the nation reels under enormous and legitimately critical issues.

The non neo-cons here, of course, have much fun ribbing the GOP faithful about the Once Grand Old Party’s current sorry state. And the fact that the future looks equally abysmal.

Need proof that their “base” of hemorrhaging ostriches and BushCo apologists are as intransigent as ever?

Twenty-nine percent of Republicans questioned in a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Friday say they are most likely to support Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin for the GOP presidential nomination in 2012. Right behind the 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee, and well within the poll’s 4.5 percent sampling error, is former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee. Twenty-six percent of those questioned say they are most likely backing the former, and possibly future, Republican presidential candidate.

Twenty-one percent of Republicans polled say they most likely would support former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, another GOP hopeful from the last campaign who may put his hat into the ring again.

Palin, Huckabee, Romney and the Louisiana Flash? THAT’S IT???

It’s awfully early of course, but I think I see Electoral Bloodbaths, Parts Trois and Quatre coming up…

Mrs. Godzilla

February 27th, 2009
3:03 pm

I like that John Derbyshire. I bet he hugs.

Mike

February 27th, 2009
3:04 pm

BD –

I forgot Al Gore’s quote:

“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.” — Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

Again, his opinions were formed based on his years in the White House. He didn’t hold office in 2002.

Taxpayer

February 27th, 2009
3:06 pm

Commie,

You’re in no position to make anyone shut up. And, what is this “liberal theological” crap that you are spewing, little fella. And, remember, I’ve done put you in your place more times than you can count — with your shoes one, that is.

Mike

February 27th, 2009
3:06 pm

Bosch –

These quotes are all post 9/11:

“There is no doubt that … Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” Letter to President Bush, Signed by: — Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them.” — Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.” — Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” — Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.” — Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…” — Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.” — Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years … We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.” — Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

“He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do” — Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members … It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.” — Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

“We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.” — Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

“Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime … He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction … So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real…” — Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:07 pm

Bosch,
last time I checked, General Patreus, whom Hillary Rodham Rodham called a liar, cleaned up Iraq. Let’s look at two wars shall we. Iraq and Vietnam. JFK botched that up pretty damn good. The democrats got us in, screwed it up, and then retreated. Iraq has not had nearly as many American or civilian deaths, right? Do you see where I am going here, Bosch? And yes, it does matter when they all said that Saddam was a threat. Iraq was big on Clintons policy. You seriously need to get up to speed on your current events pal.

JFK and the democrats blew it. Vietnam was a waste and we lost. My point is this, the new democrat party is invested in American failure. Look at Michigan, a democrat controlled state. Companies are in shambles, the education is horrible, people are moving out like crazy and we’re left paying for union idiocies.

caz1158

February 27th, 2009
3:07 pm

Mike-The left has alway’s been known for short term memory loss. In fact that’s what there leaders depend on. Good fact reporting

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:09 pm

Taxpayer,
I never MADE you shut up, comrade. I simply asked you to shut up if you could not debate. Little fella? Dude, you don’t know me from anyone else. So that that crap and shove down your pie hole. Oh, and you’ve done never put me in my place, to quote you. Go sell stupid somewhere else.

Mike

February 27th, 2009
3:09 pm

Taxpayer -

” what is this “liberal theological” crap that you are spewing, little fella.”

It’s much the same as your conservative bashing, so spare us the hypocrisy.

BTW: You have never put anyone in their place. You are the king of refusing to have a back and forth. When presented with evidence that you are dead wrong, you just pretend you don’t see it.

Kind of like when you made your brilliant observation that the total expense of $787 billion at 10% interest was $866 billion. LOL

BDAtlanta

February 27th, 2009
3:10 pm

I wonder if our intelligence community is any better today than it was during the Clinton and Bush years?

Was it ever any good?

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:10 pm

Taxpayer,
oh I forgot, yes, I do have authority, pal.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:12 pm

Taxpayer.
I believe Mike has promptly put you in your place.

Taxpayer

February 27th, 2009
3:12 pm

Commie at 2:54 Don’t blame me for your lack of not having a rebuttal

Well, OK, Commie. I won’t blame you. But, only since you insisted.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:13 pm

BDAtlanta,
we were attacked 5 times under Clinton. Once under W. Pretty obvious.

Mrs. Godzilla

February 27th, 2009
3:13 pm

James Dobson resigned……

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:14 pm

Taxpayer,
you’ve not once debated anything I’ve posted. You’ve only thrown out snippets of insults.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:15 pm

Mrs. Godzilla,
he’s in his 70’s. It was planned 6 years ago for him to hand over his power to the next guy. If you are trying to insinuate something you’d better have some proof. Otherwise, it’s a non issue.

Taxpayer

February 27th, 2009
3:16 pm

Why Commie. Such war-mongering crap from such a communal type person.

I see you have already forgotten about my offer to compare credentials that you cowered away from and that you will continue to cower away from by resorting to your “fear” of no longer being the anonymous tough guy. You’re a real laugh — I mean, Joke. Now, give us a big hug, Commie style, comrade. HA HA HA HA HA. I like you, Commie. Really, I do. I just happen to know that you are well full of it.

Jay

February 27th, 2009
3:16 pm

An interesting aside to Mike: Of the seven sitting Democratic senators you quoted to Bosch, four ended up voting AGAINST the Iraq war resolution. So did 61 percent of House Democrats.

Janet

February 27th, 2009
3:17 pm

On occasion, I have heard Rush Limbaugh. The callers he gets, it seems to me, are generally quite on the low end of education and intellect.

Does he mainly appeal to such an audience?

caz1158

February 27th, 2009
3:17 pm

People-you should know the game Taxpayer plays. He throws something out to instigate arguments not dialogue. Then he try’s to denigrate those who dis-agree with him. Ignore him,not worth the time or energy.

Observer

February 27th, 2009
3:18 pm

Jay writes, “Paranoia, by definition, is immune to facts.”

Finally, our partisan liberal host is speaking from experience. If there is anything a liberal on this blog should know about it is immunity from facts.

Bosch

February 27th, 2009
3:18 pm

Mike,

No one is arguing that Saddam Hussein wasn’t a dangerous guy – what I have always argued is that he and the weapons (that turned out to be imaginary) were not an IMMINENT threat (which was told to Congress when they voted).

And also my point has always been that we can not go around the world and invade and topple governments we don’t like – or even who we view as a threat – just because of their weapon arsenal. North Korea? Iran? Pakistan? We can’t do that – it’s not a sustainable policy.

Commie,

Yes, and we should learn from our mistakes in Vietnam – and we haven’t. We are eventually gonna have to leave Iraq – maybe you don’t think so, but we are, we can not sustain a presence there. The American people don’t want us there anymore because most of us view is as unneccesary, and the Iraqi people don’t want us there either.

Yes, Vietnam and Iraq were both wastes and in my opinion, we will look back on Iraq when things eventually unfold, and our history will judge it to be a miserable failure as well.

So what’s next? We march in Iran? We march into North Korea? Where does it end?

I don’t have to look just at Michigan to see a state in shambles – your description could apply to most states in the union. Look at California – same thing. Georgia isn’t doing so swell either. It’s everywhere Commie, not just in Michigan.

I really wish that you and Mike would stop blaming everything on the Democrats just to suit your ideological partisan fantasies. It’s simply not true.

PJ

February 27th, 2009
3:20 pm

President Rush Limbaugh sets the policy and the agenda for his followers. He hopes the other President fails. He informed any and all conservatives that did not like Jindal’s response to the other President’s message to the joint session of Congress not to talk to him. He has the Republican members of Congress afraid to speak out against him or faces direr consequences. There is no room for disagreement in the Limbaugh Administration and anyone who dares risks loosing any political future.

Last night on Countdown with KO one of the segments was about President Limbaugh’s own curiosity about his unpopularity with women. He wondered about this out loud on his Wednesday show as to why the Feminazis, babes, hotties, Lesbians, the too ugly (some of his endearing terms for women) did not like him. Janeane Garofalo was the guest of this segment and she summed up that President Limbaugh was not only a narcissist but a self hater and that the kind of women that go for him were the same kind that write to and marry jailbirds. They like the abuse and they think the name calling means he loves them. Very funny stuff.

Vice President Shawn Hannity (until yesterday at least) had a voting poll on his web site at to what ways the other President’s government could be over thrown. Choices included secession or some kind of coup d’ etrat.

Secretary of State Bill O’Reilly and Secretary of Defense Glenn Beck constantly practice charter assassination and deploy half truths against the other President and his supports to get their points across. They make it their business to twist the facts to their thinking and at the same time make it seems as though they are sympathetic to the common man who they could truly think less about.

We don’t need a Fairness Doctrine to expose this bogus administration, they do fine all by themselves. Their tactic will lead to the complete destruction of any conservative movement and more power to them. The only thing we have to fear is that they burn themselves out before their job is done.

Paul

February 27th, 2009
3:20 pm

[[Many conservatives have been downright certain the Democrats were going to try to revive the Fairness Doctrine and thus silence right-wing talk radio. Why did they think that?]]

Umm, because House and Senate Democrats said they were interested?

[[Interestingly, though, more and more folks on the right are coming to understand just how damaging talk-radio has become to their cause.]]

Isn’t that one of the benefits of free speech? Get it out in the open, to as wide an audience as possible, where it can be examined, then accepted or ridiculed by the people?

Unlike the example we heard of the other day from the college student who reported when a conservative speaker was slated, hundreds of students called the ‘bias hotline’ to complain. Or speakers at, say, Columbia who’ve been disinvited.

I still wonder if the Dem leadership doesn’t keep bringing it up just to appease farfarleft base.

I Report/You Whine 2:52

[[encourage and promote diversity in communication media ownership]]

Now there’s a scary thought. Speech – free and open in the political realm. Yet the government – those against whom much speech is directed – will define a group or groups and encourage their ownership of the means of dissemination.

Just how does one define ‘diversity’ in ownership, anyhow?

I kinda like the Brit papers. Their papers, and their readership, freely admitted their biases, unlike our system, where all broadcasters are ‘neutral observes who merely report.” There was a great comedy series that put it this way:

Prime Minister: “Don’t tell me about the press. I know exactly who reads the papers. The Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country, the Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country, the Times is read by people who actually do run the country, the Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country, the Financial Times is read by people who own the country, the Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country and the Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is.”

Head of the civil service: “Prime Minister, what about the people who read the Sun?” [[the Sun is a daily paper with a topless girl on page 3)’

PM’s assistant: “Sun readers don’t care who runs the country, as long as she’s got big t!ts.”

caz1158

February 27th, 2009
3:21 pm

Jay-Did they vote because they changed their view or because of party lines?

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:22 pm

Taxpayer,
I’ve already posted my credentials. Auburn and Duke. Good enough for you? Shall I post the names of my professors, classes, credits, GPA, SAT scores and whatever else I have? I don’t think I have to prove anything to you, comrade. Seeing that I’ve pretty much blown you away on several topics today I see you as no threat. By the way, not once have you ever written about your education.

Taxpayer

February 27th, 2009
3:22 pm

caz1158, you’re on to me. Keep it quiet though. We can’t let that slip out or else people like Commie might quit throwing his crap at me and we would not want that to happen, would we.

Brad Steal

February 27th, 2009
3:23 pm

Jay, you really tweaked the nutjobs with the boogieman Fairness Doctrine. For your two mentions of it, there have been hours of AM bloviating.

As a fine example of the ironic conniptions of the parrots: MIKE W. write: “The right is being called paranoid because they want us to let our guard down.”

Mike W. is not paranoid, they are just out to get him.

ha ha . too much.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:23 pm

Janet,
I listen to Rush, have talked to him via phone, and often e-mail him. I am well-educated, madam. So please do not say that Rush listeners are uneducated.

Observer

February 27th, 2009
3:24 pm

Commie to Taxpayer – “I believe Mike has promptly put you in your place.”

Commie – I’m sorry to say that is not possible because, according to Taxpayer, nobody on this blog has EVER corrected him – only attacked him. This, according to one of his posts yesterday.

The man is truly a legend in his own mind.

Taxpayer

February 27th, 2009
3:25 pm

Commie, all you do is blow hot air. You have not posted anything verifiable other than that, little fella. Further, you don’t even know how to have a debate. Clearly a shortcoming on the part of your claimed education. Demand a refund. Do it for the good of the students.

caz1158

February 27th, 2009
3:26 pm

PJ-Stating KO for anything,you lose all credibility!! True Rush is out there,but KO is just Blowhard that likes to hear himself talk. He’s been like that even back to his days on ESPN.

Bosch

February 27th, 2009
3:26 pm

Hi Paul!

Glad you stopped working – soooooooooo – it’s Friday. Okay, so in the previews – Kara befriends some all wise piano player – Daniel? Hmmmm.

How many more episodes?

Taxpayer

February 27th, 2009
3:27 pm

And yet, it is I, taxpayer, who commands the position of prominence amongst the cry babies of the Republican minority party that come here to “debate”. What a laugh. DEBATE. FROM YOU PUNKS. HA HA HA. Gotta go pick up my little one.

Bosch

February 27th, 2009
3:28 pm

Paul,

Oh, and ya’ gotta love the Brits. I like the Telegraph myself – and BBC America. Did you ever watch Robin Hood? I miss that show too. It’s was campy, but fun.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:28 pm

Bosch,
I call it like I read it. Georgia doesn’t have people leaving it in mass exodus. Michigan does. I live in Chicago and know this for fact. I’ve talked to many Michigan grads. Democrats have controlled that state for YEARS! At least Sonny has not driven away businesses. Oh, and by the way, Atlanta is the biggest city in the south in case you did not know that. Take away Atlanta and the south suffers.

Now, as far as Iraq goes, you do not know what history will say about it. Your not a historian. Vietnam was MUCH worse than Iraq. Iraq will be looked at as a debacle that will hopefully become a success story. Free elections and democracy. And yes, we should bomb Irans nuke factories. And Pakistans.

G

February 27th, 2009
3:29 pm

Pillboy caters to the “Joe the dumber” crowd.

Maybe with better education and healthcare under President Obama, their IQ’s will go up and they will call Pillboy out on his hate and bigotry, and finger him for the b@stard he is.

Bosch

February 27th, 2009
3:29 pm

Commie,

Wow, you and Rush are buds? Hey, can you score me some Oxy?

Goldie

February 27th, 2009
3:30 pm

Communist — You’re hilarious in trying to rewrite history. No matter what words were “spoken” about Saddam Hussein, it was your guy Dumbya who decided that the only answer to disarming that tyrant was to invade, bomb and occupy Iraq. And you Repugs made sure that anyone who spoke out against Dumbya’s wishes would be labelled a TRAITOR or an APPEASER. That’s your legacy, Communist — bombing and occupying a country that had no WMD and had never attacked America. Wallow in your self-pity all you want, but you Repugs own the Iraq disaster that has been ongoing since 2002.

Observer

February 27th, 2009
3:30 pm

Taxpayer writes, “Gotta go pick up my little one.”

OMG, he has offspring! Be affraid. Be very affraid.

RW-(the original)

February 27th, 2009
3:31 pm

Once again Jay B would like to distract you with a shiny object so you won’t go nosing around and get the rest of the story. Even as the Senate passed the DeMint amendment they also adopted what would appear on the surface to allow for bringing the very same controls in through the backdoor with a different name.

“To encourage and promote diversity in communication media ownership, and to ensure that the public airwaves are used in the public interest.” –The Durbin amendment passed 57-41

I Report/ You Whine

February 27th, 2009
3:33 pm

Citing data from the University of Illinois’ Arctic Climate Research Center, as interpreted on Jan. 1 by Daily Tech, a technology and science news blog, the column said that since September “the increase in sea ice has been the fastest change, either up or down, since 1979, when satellite record-keeping began.” According to the center, global sea ice levels at the end of 2008 were “near or slightly lower than” those of 1979. The center generally does not make its statistics available, but in a Jan. 12 statement the center confirmed that global sea ice levels were within a difference of less than 3 percent of the 1980 level.

On Feb. 18 the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center reported that from early January until the middle of this month, a defective performance by satellite monitors that measure sea ice caused an underestimation of the extent of Arctic sea ice by 193,000 square miles, which is approximately the size of California. The Times (”All the news that’s fit to print”), which as of this writing had not printed that story, should unleash Revkin and his unnamed experts.-George Will.

He who laughs last laughs the loudest, bwahahahahahahahaha, bozos.

RW-(the original)

February 27th, 2009
3:34 pm

DB,

From downstairs. Is 1968 really considered pop culture? Secondly are you sure that Time is ripe for revolution is really the same as Hey! think the time is right for a palace revolution

Bosch

February 27th, 2009
3:34 pm

Commie,

That can not keep being our foreign policy position to attack all the other countries we perceive as a threat. It is not sustainable. I know you and I are gonna have to agree to disagree on that one.

And you are right – I am no historian, and no, I don’t know – but it doesn’t look too promising right now. I hope I am wrong – horribly wrong and things work out swimmingly over there – historically it would be the first time anything like that happened, and who knows, there is always room for a miracle. Right?

People are leaving Michigan in droves maybe – I don’t know – but isn’t that because of the car companies who haven’t made a worthy product in decades? I don’t think that’s government intervention there, I think it’s poorly run companies by people like Nardelli and the like.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:34 pm

Taxpayer,
Making fun of my education is really childish on your part. Especially since you’ve never posted anything about your schooling. Now, if you want to debate schooling, which I highly doubt, lets debate. If not, keep your childish rhetoric to yourself.

caz1158

February 27th, 2009
3:34 pm

Bosch-Leftist with a sense of humor? How can that be?

Mike

February 27th, 2009
3:35 pm

Jay -

“An interesting aside to Mike: Of the seven sitting Democratic senators you quoted to Bosch, four ended up voting AGAINST the Iraq war resolution. So did 61 percent of House Democrats.”

I never claimed otherwise. I was responding to the claim that Bush lies, and I was pointing out if Bush lies than so did they.

As usual, you swoop in when you think you have me nailed, but refuse to address any other questions I pose.

Let me ask again, since I obviously have your attention:

You constantly label folks right-wing. Do you consider yourself left-wing?

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:35 pm

Goldie,
AND YOUR IDIOTIC DEMOCRAT PARTY VOTED FOR AND FUNDED THE SAME WAR.

Jay

February 27th, 2009
3:36 pm

Caz, in most cases it was neither. While Graham and others believed Saddam had WMD, they did not buy the claim that he might give that material to al Qaida. (That was my position as well.) Graham at the time was the chair of Senate Intelligence; he knew that Bush claims of a tie between Saddam and bin Laden were bogus, although he could not reveal the secret documents to prove it at the time.

Nor did they buy the argument that the war would be relatively easy or cheap, as Bush was implying.

caz1158

February 27th, 2009
3:36 pm

Bosch- I respect your opinion.me I believe in proactive when it comes to my family/country, not re-actionary.

Mike

February 27th, 2009
3:36 pm

“On occasion, I have heard Rush Limbaugh. The callers he gets, it seems to me, are generally quite on the low end of education and intellect.”

As opposed to Jay’s supporters? Please. Read some of Midoris, AmVets and Taxpayers posts when you get a chance.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:38 pm

Bosch,
name one war that was not horrific. Name one war that didn’t have casualties.

Ah yes, the car companies. What you fail to mention is the unions who have driven up labor costs. GM is more of an insurance company now than car company. And no, American car companies make great cars. Saturns, Subaru’s and many other cars are great.

Brad Steal

February 27th, 2009
3:38 pm

Kummunist,
congratulations on your impressive creditials. Was your undergrad degree in humility? Opps, never mind. You went to Duke. They do not offer studies in humility. Admitting that you are a Limbaugh follows does indicate impressive knowledge and liking letters in truckling, sophistry and haughtiness.

Mike

February 27th, 2009
3:39 pm

Jay -

” he knew that Bush claims of a tie between Saddam and bin Laden were bogus”

I know that Cheney made such a claim, but I am unaware of Bush making such a claim.

I know that our current Secretary of State made such a claim:

“”In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members … It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.” — Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002″

Why not call her out, Jay?

Paul

February 27th, 2009
3:39 pm

Bosch

The Telegraph? Aha! You think the country is run by another country!

Lessee, there’ve been seven episodes. Twelve this season? I went online to watch the last one, could read the synopsis but they hadn’t posted the broadcast.

Robin Hood’s gone. So’s Primeval. Hey, I wanted to ask you and RW-(the original) and AmVet – I know they restrict tv viewing, but ever seen Life on Mars? About a detective who gets in an accident and wakes up in NYC. In 1973. The music’s great retro, the cars… wow, the cars. Plus the clothing and mood – wow. Couple weeks ago they had a plot line where a guy was going to commit suicide ’cause he lost all his money investing in a company that was going to make portable phones. The cops called him an idiot – who’d wanna carry a phone everywhere?

Off to an appointment – later!

6 hours 21 minutes

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:40 pm

Bosch,
can I get you some Oxy? Sure Bosch, can you get me a Bill Clinton signed cigar?

crackhead almanac

February 27th, 2009
3:41 pm

hey you know who tells people what to think? the MSM. talk radio didnt tell anyone to think anything. hey you wanna know about paranoia? how about the crap that has been spewed over the last 10 mohths in hopes of driving down the economy? Im not paranoid. Im damn proud that my voice is being heard. you think there is listener interaction within the mainstream press? this is total bull. to hell with your “right wing talk is trying to instill paranoia!!!” paranoia talk. Liberals have almost completely shut down any remaining conservative voice.

CommunistAJC

February 27th, 2009
3:42 pm

Sad Seal aka Brad Steal,
Who I listen to is my business. Now, if you want to make fun of Duke, please provide the name of the university in which you received your degree. Oh wait, you probably didn’t get your GED. Sorry Sad Seal. Guess Clayton Co didn’t work out did it? Moron.