Torture commission grows more likely

from Salon:

“Spearheading Senate efforts to establish a torture commission is Rhode Island Democrat Sheldon Whitehouse. As a member of both the Judiciary Committee and the Intelligence Committee, Whitehouse is privy to information about interrogations he can’t yet share. Still, regarding a potential torture commission, he told Salon, “I am convinced it is going to happen.”

In fact, his fervor on the issue was palpable. When asked if there is a lot the public still does not know about these issues during the Bush administration, his eyes grew large and he nodded slowly. “Stay on this,” he said. “This is going to be big.”…

Last week, retired Maj. Gen. Tony Taguba, known for conducting an honest investigation of prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib, discussed his support for such a commission in an exclusive interview with Salon. Taguba joined a group of former high-level diplomats and law enforcement officials who also announced their support for a torture commission late last week, along with 18 rights groups.

During that interview, Taguba stated that any review must include close analysis of claims from Bush administration officials that abusive interrogations worked. “Some of those activities were actually not effective and those who thought so were in the academic or pristine settings of their offices,” Taguba said. “What would they know?”

Whitehouse agreed, and depicted as ironic the fact that some members of the intelligence community saw themselves as “the Lance Armstrongs of interrogation,” while some members of the military objected to abuse as ineffective.

“In fact, the exact opposite was true,” Whitehouse said about such claims from the CIA.”It was amateur hour with them, and the career, tough, serious military interrogators said that this just was not effective,” he said. “But it is important to prove the point, because they keep saying, ‘We saved lives. We interrupted plans. We did this, that and the other.’” Whitehouse added, “Well, when you drill down, there is never a fact there. It turns into fog and evasion.”

That’s one of the issues a commission should be free to explore: Did torture work, or were there alternatives that would have worked better AND allowed us to abide by the principles we claim to be defending?

And yes, if members of Congress — regardless of party — had knowledge of torture and approved it in any way, that should be explored as well. The goal would not be prosecution; the goal should be explaining to the American people what was done in their name.

109 comments Add your comment

AJC/DNC Management

February 25th, 2009
5:30 pm

Let’s start with Oblahmi-

LONDON (Reuters) – Abuse of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay has worsened sharply since President Barack Obama took office as prison guards “get their kicks in” before the camp is closed, according to a lawyer who represents detainees.

Remember Bookman, we should look into all charges.

In fact, his fervor on the issue was palpable. When asked if there is a lot the public still does not know about these issues during the Bush administration, his eyes grew large and he nodded slowly. “Stay on this,” he said. “This is going to be big.”…

That was his little pea brain welling up behind his eyeballs, self mutilating freaks.

ew

AJC/DNC Management

February 25th, 2009
5:32 pm

So how many libs are still stuck on page 1 of the last blog, feverishly refreshing the page but seeing no new comments coming up?

Anybody heard from Mad Harris in a while?

Wyld Byll Hyltnyr

February 25th, 2009
5:38 pm

I was tortured having to watch “Slow Joe” Biden sitting behind POTUS, smiling like a retard looking at an ice cream truck and making silly, frat party gestures throughout a Presidential address. Oh for the gravitas that VP Cheney brought to the office. Are they going to invesitgate Obama?

radiowxman

February 25th, 2009
5:48 pm

“Did torture work, or were there alternatives that would have worked better AND allowed us to abide by the principles we claim to be defending?”

I agree with this. However, we all know that’s not what’s going to happen. It will be a witch hunt trying to get as much dirt on the previous administration as possible.

Meanwhile, Obama gets lauded for closing that evil gitmo. Just don’t pay attention to the prisoners in that little Bagram AFB…….

NRB

February 25th, 2009
6:00 pm

Oh that pesky Bagram AFB! Where just last friday Oblahma sided with Bush and decided that prisoners there DO NOT HAVE CONSITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

It might just be the only time I agree with His Majesty.

Of course, the AJC does not report things like that, they’re too busy falling all overthemselves over Barry O’s new puppy.

jon

February 25th, 2009
6:11 pm

What us torture? What is valuable info? What if you find out that the subject knows nothing, isn’t that intel also.

Whatever. When the investigation gets close to that fact that Nancy P. and other prominent Democrats supported the aggressive interrogation techniques and the Dems start getting the political backlash from sticking up for murdering terrorists, this will all go away.

GodHatesTrash, Superstar

February 25th, 2009
6:16 pm

In the jackal eat jackal world of the Bookman RightWingnutterbutters, torture is as vital as breathing.

Chickenhawk cowards.

getalife

February 25th, 2009
6:20 pm

A special prosecutor is in order not a truth commission to cover up the crimes.

We know they are having great difficulty in bringing charges to terrorists because they were tortured.

There is your truth commission.

Nobody is above the law.

Prosecute.

saywhat?

February 25th, 2009
6:22 pm

All those in favor of torture, be sure to volunteer for it so we can find out how much you really know about the mysterious circumstances of Obama’s birth. You can rest assured while you suffer thatyou are helping to prevent another 9/11.

Rufus

February 25th, 2009
6:25 pm

If you like style over substance then you didn’t like what the governor said, and you loved the president’s “campaign speech.”

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
6:27 pm

Torture is listening to Republicans brag about their ability to do nothing. Then again, they do it so well — nothing, that is.

AmVet

February 25th, 2009
6:31 pm

I have heard many words used to describe Dick Cheney over the past eight unending years.

But gravitas?

Feckless seems more fitting…

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
6:37 pm

Torture is condoned by the Republican war-mongers because it simply fits in with what they consider as acceptable behavior on their parts. You know, that preemption stuff. Don’t you know every one of those neocons would be singing a high-pitched tune to the contrary if they were on the receiving end. It would be the one time that they would choose not to do nothing. They’d be singing like canaries.

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
6:39 pm

Careful, AmVet. Dick carries a loaded shot-gun and he’s not scared to use it. So, don’t turn your back on him. After all, he believes in preemption.

G

February 25th, 2009
6:40 pm

We (and the rest of the world) need to know all the worst of what’s been done in our name at Guantanamo. We need to drag into the light all those who authorized it or (by their silence) gave implied consent.

But let’s not do anything to damage the chance of putting these people on trial, in an international tribunal, for war crimes. It’s time for the United States to join the International Criminal Court:

http://www.icc-cpi.int/about.html

“The ICC is a court of last resort. It will not act if a case is investigated or prosecuted by a national judicial system unless the national proceedings are not genuine, for example if formal proceedings were undertaken solely to shield a person from criminal responsibility. In addition, the ICC only tries those accused of the gravest crimes.”

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Feith, Woo, and that whole rotten bunch of bloodthirsty warmongers deserve to end their days in prison or at the end of a rope.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
6:42 pm

Far more powerful than any “torture comission were the statements of new OLC Chief Professor Dawn Johnsen this afternoon to Senate Judiciary (available for playing on real player tomorrow morning on SJC’s site) when OLC Chief Johnson said that she will review and release memos that Attorney Generals Gonzo and Mukasey refused to release and will move quickly to rescind and reverse any of the former Bush OLC’s torture initiatives and opinions.

Johnsen, and the Deputy AGs in her agency, Dave Barron and Marty Lederman have blogged extensively criticizing the Bush initiatives to implement torture.

I particularly liked the reference to Bush OLC during the hearing as “Cheney’s Little House of Horrors” by Senator and former US Attorney Sheldon Whitehead.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
6:45 pm

It was also made clear that Mukasey refused to release an opinion as to whether waterboarding was torture because he alleged he didn’t understand what waterboarding was. That could have and can be easily remedied by waterboarding Mukasy. That’s not a wild and crazy idea, because attorneys in the Bush OLC did subject themselves to waterboarding. Mukasey should have as well to gain insight into what it is.

Class of '98

February 25th, 2009
6:46 pm

Yeah, and calling someone a coward on the anonymous internet is SOOOOO courageous.

Class of '98

February 25th, 2009
6:48 pm

You pinkos would call FDR a “warmonger” for declaring war on Japan. We were attacked, remember?

We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.

AmVet

February 25th, 2009
6:51 pm

That’s OK Taxpayer. I can outshoot that old fool anytime, anywhere…

The disgraceful, torture-endorsing Bush administration and their ardent chickenhawk Talibaptist supporters will go down in history as complete failures…

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
6:54 pm

It also really takes a non-brave person to get on an “anonymous” (snicker) blog and call another blogger such trite tripe as liar, stupid, dumb, moron, troglodyte, dullard, etc. So, what is your point Class O 98.

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
6:56 pm

Class O 98, We were indeed attacked by Japan and we attacked them as we should have. Point?

danjonglee

February 25th, 2009
6:56 pm

Strong leaders like Stalin and Mao would never approve of torture and the suspects caught would be investigated and punished.

NRB

February 25th, 2009
6:57 pm

Interesting…so why wasn’t the Democrat controlled Congress investigating “torture”, since they’ve been in charge for the past three years now?

Maybe because there hasnt been any torture? Ya think?

GodHatesTrash, Superstar

February 25th, 2009
7:00 pm

IQ ‘98, and it would have been great if Sherman had converted Georgia to basic human decency.

Paul

February 25th, 2009
7:00 pm

So much for the influence of Pres Obama on his party in Congress.

Jay, I think it difficult for such group as those pushing this to limit it to exploration, not prosecution. I see a circus in the making.

The Bush Administration will claim no foul as their legal opinion (the same ones accepted for so many months by House and Senate Democrats) is the practices did not constitute torture. We do not prosecute on matters of opinion. Statutes will have to be cited; wartime exigencies will have to be dismissed. You’ve alluded that the investigation will cross party lines but then there will be charges of limiting the scope, relevance of witnesses and the inevitable cover-up.

For the record I will again offer that the three waterboarding events did yield information, saved lives and were effective. I believe CIA Director Tenet has stated this on numerous occasions. I will also offer that all the rest – from the unsupervised, leadershipless fiasco at Abu Ghraib to other instances, were not and the alternatives proposed when 1) time is not critical and 2) when we have no idea what the prisoner knows, are the only alternatives that should be pursued.

I will also offer that any investigation should also include the Clinton Administration, calling as witnesses Pres Clinton for his signing off on rendition, where no amount of dissembling will convince anyone we did not know the countries involved practiced torture; VP Gore for his signing of a rendition order; and, CIA Director Panetta, to find out just what counsel he gave the pres and VP in these matters.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
7:01 pm

It is ludicrous and consummately stupid when wingnutters project their delusions about commenters’ personal lives who they don’t know. It is equally stupid for wingnutters to project what other people would do when attacked.

I do know that when the wingnutter administration invaded a country that had no plans to attack us they were answered by massive losses in the last two elections in 2006 and 2008. Repeating that strategy in 2010 and 2012 will result in the same pattern.

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
7:03 pm

“We” sent some folks in the US military to jail for what they did to prisoners. There were even pictures floating around the Internet on some of it. Maybe they chose not to call that torture. Ironic though, that some of those activities took place in a country that had a leader that liked to torture people and were done by people from a country that claimed, among other things, to be fighting to bring said torturers to justice. Strange indeed. Almost hypocritical if not entirely hypocritical.

Bubba

February 25th, 2009
7:05 pm

I only wish Sherman were in charge at Gitmo. We’d have bin Laden in irons by now.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
7:06 pm

Naw. Bush OLC Goldsmith, Bybee and Bradbury not confirmed by Congress were issuing secret memos condoning torture as legal. These same memors will be rescinded by new OLC Chief Johnsen and she concurred that torture approved by DOJ during Bush was run out of Cheney’s little house of horrors.

It is a myth to act as if and say that after 2006 the Dems were in full control of Congress. There was then a narrow margin of 50-49-1 independent.

That’s hardly control. Now the Dems are in control, but what role the Blue Dog Bush subserviant dems are going to play.

Why is there only one indicted talking head (Delay) on his way to prison with his trial to resume next month pontificating on TV? Why don’t they ask him to talk about his indictment?

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
7:09 pm

The Taliban has never been stronger. Bush foreign policy and his throwing away 10-12 billion per year in Pakistan made sure of that.

Politically getting Bin Ladin will make people feel better, but the Taliban has been put in firm control as a matter Pakistan policy. The Taliban is on the verge of taking over Pakistan. 17,000 troops won’t do didly in Afghanistan, and 170,000 didn’t do jack when the Russians had the troops to place that many there.

That was the gist of the briefing McConnel gave to Obama. It was a parade of Bush failures, and failure of Republican oversight for 12 years.

GodHatesTrash, Superstar

February 25th, 2009
7:10 pm

Sherman burnt thousands of Georgia homes and did hundreds of dollars worth of damage.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
7:11 pm

10-12 billion per month.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
7:12 pm

Sherman did that because Georgia killed and raped generations of African Americans and refused to stop so they were stopped.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
7:13 pm

Will they be televising Tom Delay on Hardball from prison?

AJC/DNC Management

February 25th, 2009
7:16 pm

WASHINGTON (AP) – Attorney General Eric Holder said Wednesday the Guantanamo detention center is a well-run, professional facility that will be difficult to close—but he’s still going to do it. Holder visited the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, on Monday and spoke to reporters about his trip during a news conference Wednesday.

Yeah, they are gonna turn all the little left wing pet project cut throats over to people that won’t f around with them.

Excellent!

Let’s these human debris find out what it is like to be……………………………tortured.

bwa

Bud Wiser

February 25th, 2009
7:20 pm

No need for the right wingers to plan any more attacks to forecast the results for the ‘10 election. Olahma has already made it clear he plans to annex Afghanistan.

No, no need at all. Oblahma’s socialistic takeover to run capitalism into the ground, combined with the economic and financial destruction that is being consummated through this disastrous spending bill should give the Republicans all the ammo they will need.

Of course, this is assuming we will still have free elections in two years………..

G

February 25th, 2009
7:20 pm

Chad Harris @ 7:13 Hopefully, Delay will be occupied with something else, such as mending from being beaten by other prisoners.

Bud Wiser

February 25th, 2009
7:21 pm

I only wish we Americans had a third alternative party. These two stink of corruption.

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
7:21 pm

GodHatesTrash, Superstar February 25th, 2009 7:10 pm
Sherman burnt thousands of Georgia homes and did hundreds of dollars worth of damage.

And if he marched through today, that would still be the case, in today’s dollars, of course. :lol:

AJC/DNC Management

February 25th, 2009
7:25 pm

It tells you all you need to know about liberals when you see them wishing fellow Americans be beaten or killed while they whine about supposed torture of cut throat women and children killers-

G February 25th, 2009 7:20 pm Chad Harris @ 7:13 Hopefully, Delay will be occupied with something else, such as mending from being beaten by other prisoners.

It doesn’t get any sicker than this.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
7:27 pm

Paul wrote:

We do not prosecute on matters of opinion. Statutes will have to be cited; wartime exigencies will have to be dismissed.

We isn’t who you think it is anymore. People who acted on illegal Bush OLC opinions will in fact be prosecuted and several of them have already.

If you think I’m kidding, tomorrow download the confirmation hearing for Dawn Johnsen from SJC’s site.

The woman who will be in charge of deciding who is prfosecuted cited those statutes and precedents this afternoon at her hearing. She did it for eight years as a blogger as did her two new Deputy AGs from Harvard and Georgetown law schools, Marty Lederman and David Barron. Further people have already been prosecuted. Ex CIAster Dusty Foggo is being sentenced today and tomorrow. It has been reported that Porter Goss purgered himself at the trial.

Mrs. Godzilla

February 25th, 2009
7:28 pm

Jay,

I disagree. Sorta’.

The goal should be to know the truth. Prosecution, as required.

G

February 25th, 2009
7:29 pm

Non-Management @7:25 Go cry to your mommy. You probably need a diaper change.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
7:30 pm

That would be purjured.

jon

February 25th, 2009
7:32 pm

Yet long before “waterboarding” entered the public discourse, the CIA gave key legislative overseers about 30 private briefings, some of which included descriptions of that technique and other harsh interrogation methods, according to interviews with multiple U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge.

With one known exception, no formal objections were raised by the lawmakers briefed about the harsh methods during the two years in which waterboarding was employed, from 2002 to 2003, said Democrats and Republicans with direct knowledge of the matter. The lawmakers who held oversight roles during the period included Pelosi and Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) and Sens. Bob Graham (D-Fla.) and John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), as well as Rep. Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.) and Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan).

Individual lawmakers’ recollections of the early briefings varied dramatically, but officials present during the meetings described the reaction as mostly quiet acquiescence, if not outright support. “Among those being briefed, there was a pretty full understanding of what the CIA was doing,” said Goss, who chaired the House intelligence committee from 1997 to 2004 and then served as CIA director from 2004 to 2006. “And the reaction in the room was not just approval, but encouragement.”

Washington Post 12/9/07

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
7:36 pm

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
7:41 pm

Did they give demonstrations of waterboarding to the committees so they would understand what it was and did they compare their definition of waterboarding to other definitions of torture, etc. In my mind, Clinton opened a lot of eyes with his infamous definition of “is” and now people will forevermore (or should anyway) be asking themselves just what a politician means by any given statement. I mean, after all, there is a huge difference between statements such as “I will not allow the use of torture” and “we do not torture”, if you intend for there to be or not to be, depending on the question.

Mike

February 25th, 2009
7:48 pm

“the principles we claim to be defending?”

Like what? A free market society? LOL

Bubba

February 25th, 2009
7:48 pm

Sherman didn’t give a rat’s a$$ about the African-Americans. He did it because he was a great soldier. My god, the man tried to negotiate a peace with the South which would have restored the South to the Union, no questions asked. It’s a good thing you libs weren’t around then, you’d have been so concerned about the civil rights of the Southerners, Sherman and Grant wouldn’t have stood a chance. You’d have free them all from the northern prison camps and let them go back to war because they weren’t getting due process.

Mike

February 25th, 2009
7:50 pm

Chad –

“That would be purjured.”

Actually, it would be perjured if you knew how to spell.

Paul

February 25th, 2009
7:52 pm

Chad 7:27

I meant “we” as a nation when I wrote “we do not prosecute people on matters of opinion.” As you wrote “We isn’t who you think it is anymore.” I suppose that confirms my concern. This will turn into a circus.

If the rest of your post is correct, I suppose these people will absolve themselves of all responsibility when the mass exodus of operatives from the CIA occurs.

Taxpayer 7:41

Ain’t language fun?

Seriously, just stripping away any partisan intent or preconceived notions, then carefully listening to what is actually said, is quite revealing.

But in this case, what a politician means, or, more specifically, the ones cited by jon at 7:32, has already been answered by Spkr Pelosi: this was all theoretical. It hadn’t happened. We were told there were legal opinions saying it was okey-dokey and who am I to question that?

Okay, not her exact words, but you get the idea. ‘Course, this was before she realize this subject was a most excellent way to bludgeon the Bush Administration.

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
7:54 pm

Mrs. Godzilla

February 25th, 2009
7:55 pm

jon

i don’t care if there’s a D or an R after their name.

anybody here want Democrats who condoned torture to be let off the hook?

anybody?

Dave R

February 25th, 2009
7:55 pm

Chad Harris @ 7:09 p.m.

“The Taliban have never been stronger.”

Compared to, say, when they were IN CHARGE OF THE WHOLE BLOODY COUNTRY, Chad?

Methinks you need a little waterboarding, Chad; as long as your tin foil hat doesn’t short out when it gets wet. Maybe we can get a group dunking with Taxpayer, Gelding and Bookman as well. Group rates save money, boys!

Take the densest element known to mankind, quadruple it’s density, and you might barely start seeing just how dense Chad Harris’ brain really is.

Bubba

February 25th, 2009
7:56 pm

Hey taxpayer, is that the same scientists who overestimated the arctic ice loss by the size of California? Just wondering.

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
7:58 pm

Come on in. The water’s fine, Dave R.

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
8:03 pm

A chunk of ice the size of California is to the earth as a little slither of ice is to a quart pitcher. In other words, I would not be surprised by such a small discrepancy. It’s probably well within the expected error range. If you have ocean front property though, you might want to be thinkin’ ’bout stilts if you plan on leavin’ that house as your legacy for your grand kids. Think about the children and the grandchildren, for God’s sake man.

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
8:05 pm

Not I, Mrs. G. Not really. But, how do we handle all these things in a timely manner and avoid unneeded distractions at such a grave time to boot.

Dave R

February 25th, 2009
8:07 pm

The only thing wrong with all that increased sea level is that most coastal states are blue states full of libs, and they’ll want the government to pay for their relocation, even though it wasn’t the government’s fault for buying and building on the shore.

By the way, did I mention that man-made global warming is a hoax? We’ll put it in short sentences so that liberals can understand it.

Sun runs in cycles.
Sun was in hotter cycle.
Earth warmed up.
Sun into cooler cycle.
Earth cooling down.
Al Gore is an alarmist whacko.

There. That should cover it.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
8:07 pm

Taxpayer–

I recommend you go to Senate Judiciary’s site at your convenience and after tomorrow check out the hearing that was held for Dawn Johnsen’s confirmatin this afternoon. It’s going to have major impact on what happens to the people who acted on the illegal OLC opinions. I think you’d enjoy the hearing.

SJC Hearing Confirmation of Dawn Johnsen 2/25/09

Bonedaddy

February 25th, 2009
8:10 pm

Have a hearing on the torture of having to eat my wife’s meatloaf…..

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
8:13 pm

That might not be torture if tested in a reasonable sample of people.

Dave R

February 25th, 2009
8:20 pm

Jay wrote:

“As a member of both the Judiciary Committee and the Intelligence Committee”

I know its an oldie but a goodie, but I have to ask the question:

Is there such a thing as Senate Intelligence?

Oxymoron, anyone?

jon

February 25th, 2009
8:27 pm

Mrs. Godzilla @ 7:55 >> don’t care if there’s a D or an R after their name.
Anybody here want Democrats who condoned torture to be let off the hook? anybody?<<

Trouble is you got to have a “legal” definition of torture to go on. What the good Congressman from Rhode Island thinks is torture is not enough to send someone to prison.

This is just going to be an opportunity for some congresscritters to get some free face time on TV. But they better get it wrapped up before 9/11/11, because the short memories of Americans are going to be jogged on the 10th anniversary and they ain’t going to be in no mood for terrorist coddling. And everyone of them congresscritters in the House will be facing an election.

Or how about the scenario of a successful terrorist attack occurring on US soil while HOR members are grilling CIA folks on Capitol Hill? I think even Democratic congresscritters are smart enough to realize how risky this is for them and the whole thing will go away.

Paul

February 25th, 2009
8:27 pm

Dave R

That oxymoron is also known as Eternal Truth.

AmVet

February 25th, 2009
8:39 pm

Dave R, you climatologically challenged loon.

First, don’t shoot the messenger. Just try to educate yourself a little. At least to the point where you don’t look like a blithering idiot as in that 8:07.

Changes in the sun cycles and therefore its temperatures take millenia to manifest themselves.

Not twenty or thirty years.

Can you grasp this concept? If so, this would be a great first step in acknowledging that you clearly know nothing of which you speak in this regard.

Maybe next, you’ll posit that the dramatic, undeniable changes on this planet are due to “variations in the earth’s orbit”. Or cow flatulence. (You and Duhng could have a climate change conference where such topics are pondered.)

But then I’m sure that all of those numerous long-standing very respected scientific organizations with great track records of scientific accuracy and discoveries that have concluded man-induced climate change is undeniable, don’t hold a candle to your vast knowledge on the subject.

The bottom line is this though, flat-earther.

The days of a science-free White House are done. Forever. And the input you ostriches have going forward on this matter will be both minuscule and irrelevant. Nobody of any import, considers your nonsense valid. Take it to the bank…

Dave R

February 25th, 2009
8:42 pm

Am-Vet, I don’t know what messed with your brains, but something serious did.

Sun cycles go about every 11 years, genius.

Look it up, if your man enough. Which I doubt.

T

February 25th, 2009
8:43 pm

“Trouble is you got to have a “legal” definition of torture to go on.”

I agree with this. I also would want to see a study to see which methods produce reliable information.

I know that some war criminals could be wrongly incarcerated. However, how do you rationalize with people that have no issue with blowing up women, children, and themselves in the name of their cause.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
8:45 pm

Jon–

None of what you said is going to have impact on OLC’s decisions that are not just opinions but the actual course that DOJ will be taking. The American people elected a President. Elections have some huge consequences and you’re going to begin to see them everyday. One of the Consequences is that the people who are making decisions on which OLC opinions were legal are 3 brilliant Bush haters who wrote extensively on how Bush Cheney, and Addington tried to decimate the cconstitution and how Goldsmith, Bybee, and the non-confirmed Steven Bradbury wrote illegal opinions.

OLC will be making their decisions based on the law, which it has not done in 8 years.

You can keep rambling, but you ought to check out what OLC is, who they now are, and watch the hearing that happened today.

AmVet

February 25th, 2009
8:47 pm

You idiot, that’s sun spot activity, not it’s temperature!

Did you go to school in Cobb County?

Torture Commission « Left on Lanier

February 25th, 2009
8:55 pm

[...] Torture Commission Posted by Gray under Politics | Tags: sheldon whitehouse, torture |   Bookman writes about efforts to establish a torture commission spearheaded by Democratic Senator Sheldon [...]

Dave R

February 25th, 2009
8:58 pm

Energy levels, too. Loser.

RW-(the original)

February 25th, 2009
9:02 pm

Torture is reading something as mind numbingly stupid as that 8:39. Maybe we could have a truth commission to see who allowed our citizenry to be dumbed down to the point that they shouldn’t be allowed to hold a sharp instrument, much less navigate a keyboard.

Davo

February 25th, 2009
9:07 pm

Looking at this picture is torture enough…
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/02/25/limbaugh-women/
Careful…I threw up a little in my mouth…close-call.

AmVet

February 25th, 2009
9:15 pm

Dagmar Dave and Lurking Ballerina RW,

That’s it? Energy levels too? What the hell does that even mean???

Sheeeesh…

You have no earthly (get it?) idea bout this stuff do you? You’ve never educated yourself and have no intentions of doing so. As is probably true on a vast array of topics, you two apparently have no shame in humiliating yourself publicly though.

I certainly don’t have any answers, but I have read at great length about this topic. Even some of the nonsensical Duhng-posted links to oddball websites. And I know it is sheer lunacy to accept the findings of National Geographic, NASA, NOAA and dozens of other such organizations over your commanding erudition of climate change, but hey I’m just a wild and crazy guy!

All that you Republiconneds, can hang your tin foil hats on is an illogical hatred for all things liberal and all things academic. No matter the veracity. No matter the mountains of evidence. No matter the truth.

Go support ruining some other planet, enviro-rapers…

Dave R

February 25th, 2009
9:29 pm

Maybe you should have looked into the scientific phenomena that turns a human being (supposedly) into a bitter, raving lunatic who does nothing but attack every poster who even dares to disagree with him. try looking in the mirror, Am-Vet.

And maybe you should go back to your science classes.

More energy output from the sun = higher temperatures on Earth. It’s called physics, Am-Vet. Maybe they didn’t teach that back when you were in school. Or were you just out that day?

You can even try this in your double-wide, Am-Vet. Take out your Coleman stove. Put the heat on low. Place your hand over the flame (not too close now!). Increase the amount of energy flowing through your Coleman stove. Feel the extra HEAT?

Now, you libs out there; don’t try this at home without a responsible adult supervising you. Otherwise, you might just learn something.

AJC/DNC Management

February 25th, 2009
9:31 pm

Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) declared a return to “the era of big government” the day after President Obama’s first formal address to Congress.

“From everything I’ve seen, it looks like the era of big government spending is back,” he told reporters at a lunch convened by the Christian Science Monitor. “My question to my Democratic friends is how are you going to pay for it?”

At least somebody in the gov has enough guts to call a pig a pig.

Instead of calling it a “stimulus” bill, bwahahahahahaha, bozos.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
9:33 pm

We are represented as a nation Paul by Obama’s OLC overseen by this Congress as to torture policy, investigation, prosecution and advise to Obama, Greg Craig, and Holder on what the legal options are for prosecuting people who broke the law as members of DOJ in areas ranging from the fired US Attorneys including Rove, torture, and illegal wiretapping.

I can’t tell you what to do. But I suggest you apprise yourself of OLC. It’s a very important agency as is David Kris nominee for assistant attorney general for the National Security Division and senior vice president and deputy general counsel at Time Warner.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
9:37 pm

Boehner and his homies have been rendered irrelevant fools and no one but the 20% loser base pays attention to him. The good news is that DeLay will not be muttering the same imbecilic wingnut crap on Tweetie Mathes’ show soon, because Hardball can’t get permission to televise DeLa from prison where he will be living for a good while.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
9:39 pm

The great thing is that while you call the stim a pig Andy, the courts call it a law. They won’t be asking you to render judgement.

AJC/DNC Management

February 25th, 2009
9:47 pm

Mad Harris: You’ll notice that when you keep it short and simple, I might just read it.

It’s not a law, moron, it’s a spending bill.

Dave R

February 25th, 2009
9:49 pm

Reality check, Chad!

The OLC will be getting into the “firing of U.S. Attorneys”?

Bring it on, baby! In case you missed the whole Constitutional / executive powers thing, Chad, anyone nominated by the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, serves at the pleasure of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. That means that he (or she someday) can fire those sorry butts anytime they want to. The only thing that makes this an issue is because some jackalopes in Congress got their collective panties in a wad and tried to do an “investigation”. In the real world we call them “witch hunts”.

Either way, Constitutionally-speaking, you and Conyers and the OLC are barking up the wrong tree.

Or in your case, just barking at the moon again.

AJC/DNC Management

February 25th, 2009
9:56 pm

Guess who-

But as long as the nation is obsessed with historic milestones, is no one going to remark on what a great country it is where a mentally retarded woman can become speaker of the house?

bwa

AJC/DNC Management

February 25th, 2009
10:11 pm

As with the Clintons, Obama so earnestly believes in public school education that he sends his girls to … an expensive private school. He demands that taxpayers support the very public schoolteachers he won’t trust with his own children.

It is one thing to tell voters that school choice is wrong, because, you know, the public schools won’t get better unless Americans sacrifice their children to the teachers’ union’s maw. But it is quite another for Democrats to feed their own kids to the union incinerator.

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
10:16 pm

Well, Idol is over for the evening so what’s been happenin’ here. Actually, regarding the heating of the earth by the sun, it would be more technically correct to discuss radiation heat transfer which is a function of the difference in the fourth powers of the absolute temperatures of the two bodies in question. Of course, I could pull out one of my old heat transfer textbooks if you want more information on the subject. If you are into solar collectors and all such stuff, it’s a very relevant topic, dontcha know.

AmVet

February 25th, 2009
10:22 pm

Amazing mastery of the subject Dagmar. Kudos to you sir!

Did you concoct this theory in a drunken stupor somewhere? Or perhaps HeadRush “Volcano’s are causing it all!” Limbaugh taught you this one, as well.

Let me see if I understand this correctly. According to the Dave R Theory of the Sun’s Variable Temperatures, one could infer that the earth’s temperatures would correspondingly and dramatically go up and own every eleven years according to the sun spot cycles, right?

OK. Whatever.I find it stunning that you honestly think this is THE reason for the earth’s increased temperatures since the Industrial Revolution.

I don’t “attack you because you disagree with me” Mr. suddenly thin skin. I’ve merely exposed you as a uninformed purveyor of intentional misinformation on this topic. Big difference.

Ricky Reich-Wing,

Then you must be some sort of modern day flagellant who enjoys torturing himself. Because forever you’ve been hanging on my every word and every post. And you always will. My words have that much power over you. Often you have shown up here to make irrational observations, but never a refutation of the salient point of course, and then leave.

(I can understand your being so easily miffed. I really can. You’ve been roundly derided for many, many months by many, many people for fighting the modern day Scopes Monkey trial. You pretend to agree with natural selection, but likely, have never studied Darwin in any detail, or read his amazing book. And you completely discount the very summary he draws using natural selection. You will never allow yourself to grasp that Darwin’s scientific discoveries are the unifying theory of the life sciences, providing a logical explanation for the diversity of life via evolution. Nor that his studies are the very basis for modern day biology and anthropology. And of course, you and your ilk, proffer no alternative theories in over 150 years.)

Mysteriously, you have always aligned yourself with the bible-thumpers and flat-earthers regarding this hatred and distrust of all things science. Why?

So, go ahead Einstein, show all us your climatological stuff. We’ll save the “holes in the fossil record” for another day, OK?

Demonstrate the superiority of your accepted theories over those of the thousands of experts who assert that man-induced climate change is real and it is a peril to the planet.

Get the popcorn ready folks, cuz this gets real good. I’ve seen it before…

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
10:31 pm

Andy if I were a child, and didn’t have more law background in my hangnails per mm than you have in your life, I’d take offense.

It’s not a bill anymore kiddo, the conference committee done tweaked it (example–at the Superbowl Party at the White House Dick Durbin and Arlin Specter arrived at a deal that elated a lot of medical researchers and their patients–I guess you’re immune from serious illness Andy because let me guess–you know a witch doctor) and in the law there is $40 billion for NIH that they were totally not expecting. It was Specter’s message to the cancer he conquered and to the misdiagnosis of ALS or Lou Gehrig’s disease that traumatized him).

Anyway, in my 6th grade class they passed around some brochure about how a bill becomes a law. It was basic but it was correct. So when the President does not veto or pocket veto that bill once it gets to his desk, and signs it, it is what we grownups call a law.

Bill>>>>>>>>>>>passed by both Houses of Congress often after secret deals in a secret Conference Committee from both Houses of Congress>>>>President (that’d be Barack)>>>>signing ceremony in Denver for this one>>>>law.

It is a law and the idiot Jindal did not read it which is why he invoked what it makes illegal which is to take all but the unemployment portion. No can do.

It has a name–it’s an act and it’s a law. You don’t have to follow it Andy. You can continue to be senile and rail at the wall or on some blog. Fine by me.

And Andy, pick any topic pertaining to law or medicine and I’ll be glad for you to bring it and show me how bright you are.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
10:38 pm

Reality

February 25th, 2009
10:41 pm

Torturing islamic terrorists to protect our homeland security….am I the only one who doesn’t see anything wrong with that?? Remember these islamic extremists only serve one purpose — to eliminate those who do not hold their beliefs. Unconventional enemies deserve uncoventional treatment!!!

AmVet

February 25th, 2009
10:48 pm

Chad, to me the amazing thing about these neoliths, is that they have no working knowledge of the things they profess to know so much about.

Like their shameful hero, the former commander-in-chump, they seemingly have zero intellectual curiosity. None. They learned what they were forced to in school, and then eventually threw it all away because it did not dovetail with their myopic “conservative” worldview. Which of course, mandates that all things liberal, all things science and all things academia must be exorcised.

Fortunately their last standard bearer left office in disgrace and mortally wounded their outdated and moribund ideology…

Reality

February 25th, 2009
10:49 pm

I see PresBO is now seeking $634B for healthcare. And this continual spending is helping us how??? Oh, I forgot, it’s payback and tax cuts (welfare) for those supporters who look to and depend on the federal government for their care and feeding. Most or all of these parasites had no concept of pride, responsibility or self reliance!!!!

Others on this or another blog said it best — we are now living under the Borg where resistance is futile and we will be assimilated!!! Sad….

Reality

February 25th, 2009
10:52 pm

Sorry, I missed a key word above. It should read Borg COLLECTIVE

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
10:54 pm

Dave R–

Nothing is your baby. I understand you fit the profile of a badly abused child–beat up by your parents and your contemporaries.

You’ve graduated to the ranks of so stupid I don’t have time anymore to read your delusions or respond to them. Pakistan is in danger of being taken over by the Taliban. I’m not in the business of tutoring mentally handicapped children.

It is as weak as it has ever been, and it is near bankruptcy something a lot of American banks and companies are learning about. It has cooperated with the Taliban as a matter of governmental preference and our money has been wasted there to the tune of $10 billion to $12 billion per month.

I won’t be responding to any of your moronic rants in the future.

Taxpayer

February 25th, 2009
10:54 pm

Borg!!! That is so cool. I like that. I had forgotten all about the Borg. After all, it’s been a few years. Assimilate the Republicans into the consciousness. But, that would spoil the consciousness, make it all dirty. ew.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
11:02 pm

Reality–

It would take me about 2 minutes to start dissecting the celiac plexus without anesthesia if we nailed you down. And I could get you to say whatever you thought would make me stop on the way to said celiac plexus.

Or we could just go to one of your intercostal nerves under any rib in a few seconds with a #11 blade in a stab and I could get you to answer any question with information I told you I wanted that you made up to get me to stop.

Torture may work for Keifer Sutherland on a show where he has fun and make millions. It is not reliable in real life and Bush ran foreign policy into the ground relying on it.

Chad Harris

February 25th, 2009
11:12 pm

Amvet–

I’m sure a lot has been written on why the vast majority of conservatives become moronic on blog comment threads. A good discussion is probably in Drew Westen’s book

The Political Brain

or

Tom Frank’s The Wrecking Crew

They would be knocked off quality conservative blogs in an hour–the ones that don’t put up with stupidity and ignorance as to issues.

The one that I get a big kick out of is Dave R but I’ve stopped reading his idiocy. He purports to know law, but I’ve seen 9 year olds who literally have a better command of law. He raves about Constitution, Federalist Papers, and wouldn’t know what OLC, case law, the Federal Reporter, standards of review, appellate procedure, FRAPs, FREs, FRCrP, analysis of legislative intent in case law are if they bit him in the a$$.

Eric

February 25th, 2009
11:15 pm

Listening to Tim Geithner should be classified as torture.

Dave R

February 25th, 2009
11:25 pm

Chad, why start now anyway? You’ve never answered a single question I’ve asked of you (are you and Taxpayer related somehow?), and have never been able to successfully refute anything I’ve written (Hmmm, maybe you ARE related to Taxpayer). You just go off on one of your barking at the moon rants about the OLC or some other random stream of un-consciousness loonie tunes.

Moonbat – meet Chad.

Dave R

February 25th, 2009
11:27 pm

Oh, and Am-Vet? I’m not receiving government grants in order to prove an outcome they want to hear. I have no hand out that can be bitten.

It’s called intellectual honesty. Something missing from your sniveling, nasty diatribes.