Torture commission grows more likely
“Spearheading Senate efforts to establish a torture commission is Rhode Island Democrat Sheldon Whitehouse. As a member of both the Judiciary Committee and the Intelligence Committee, Whitehouse is privy to information about interrogations he can’t yet share. Still, regarding a potential torture commission, he told Salon, “I am convinced it is going to happen.”
In fact, his fervor on the issue was palpable. When asked if there is a lot the public still does not know about these issues during the Bush administration, his eyes grew large and he nodded slowly. “Stay on this,” he said. “This is going to be big.”…
Last week, retired Maj. Gen. Tony Taguba, known for conducting an honest investigation of prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib, discussed his support for such a commission in an exclusive interview with Salon. Taguba joined a group of former high-level diplomats and law enforcement officials who also announced their support for a torture commission late last week, along with 18 rights groups.
During that interview, Taguba stated that any review must include close analysis of claims from Bush administration officials that abusive interrogations worked. “Some of those activities were actually not effective and those who thought so were in the academic or pristine settings of their offices,” Taguba said. “What would they know?”
Whitehouse agreed, and depicted as ironic the fact that some members of the intelligence community saw themselves as “the Lance Armstrongs of interrogation,” while some members of the military objected to abuse as ineffective.
“In fact, the exact opposite was true,” Whitehouse said about such claims from the CIA.”It was amateur hour with them, and the career, tough, serious military interrogators said that this just was not effective,” he said. “But it is important to prove the point, because they keep saying, ‘We saved lives. We interrupted plans. We did this, that and the other.’” Whitehouse added, “Well, when you drill down, there is never a fact there. It turns into fog and evasion.”
That’s one of the issues a commission should be free to explore: Did torture work, or were there alternatives that would have worked better AND allowed us to abide by the principles we claim to be defending?
And yes, if members of Congress — regardless of party — had knowledge of torture and approved it in any way, that should be explored as well. The goal would not be prosecution; the goal should be explaining to the American people what was done in their name.
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© 2011 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
109 comments Add your comment
AJC/DNC Management
February 25th, 2009
5:30 pm
Let’s start with Oblahmi-
LONDON (Reuters) – Abuse of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay has worsened sharply since President Barack Obama took office as prison guards “get their kicks in” before the camp is closed, according to a lawyer who represents detainees.
Remember Bookman, we should look into all charges.
In fact, his fervor on the issue was palpable. When asked if there is a lot the public still does not know about these issues during the Bush administration, his eyes grew large and he nodded slowly. “Stay on this,” he said. “This is going to be big.”…
That was his little pea brain welling up behind his eyeballs, self mutilating freaks.
ew
AJC/DNC Management
February 25th, 2009
5:32 pm
So how many libs are still stuck on page 1 of the last blog, feverishly refreshing the page but seeing no new comments coming up?
Anybody heard from Mad Harris in a while?
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
February 25th, 2009
5:38 pm
I was tortured having to watch “Slow Joe” Biden sitting behind POTUS, smiling like a retard looking at an ice cream truck and making silly, frat party gestures throughout a Presidential address. Oh for the gravitas that VP Cheney brought to the office. Are they going to invesitgate Obama?
radiowxman
February 25th, 2009
5:48 pm
“Did torture work, or were there alternatives that would have worked better AND allowed us to abide by the principles we claim to be defending?”
I agree with this. However, we all know that’s not what’s going to happen. It will be a witch hunt trying to get as much dirt on the previous administration as possible.
Meanwhile, Obama gets lauded for closing that evil gitmo. Just don’t pay attention to the prisoners in that little Bagram AFB…….
NRB
February 25th, 2009
6:00 pm
Oh that pesky Bagram AFB! Where just last friday Oblahma sided with Bush and decided that prisoners there DO NOT HAVE CONSITUTIONAL RIGHTS.
It might just be the only time I agree with His Majesty.
Of course, the AJC does not report things like that, they’re too busy falling all overthemselves over Barry O’s new puppy.
jon
February 25th, 2009
6:11 pm
What us torture? What is valuable info? What if you find out that the subject knows nothing, isn’t that intel also.
Whatever. When the investigation gets close to that fact that Nancy P. and other prominent Democrats supported the aggressive interrogation techniques and the Dems start getting the political backlash from sticking up for murdering terrorists, this will all go away.
GodHatesTrash, Superstar
February 25th, 2009
6:16 pm
In the jackal eat jackal world of the Bookman RightWingnutterbutters, torture is as vital as breathing.
Chickenhawk cowards.
getalife
February 25th, 2009
6:20 pm
A special prosecutor is in order not a truth commission to cover up the crimes.
We know they are having great difficulty in bringing charges to terrorists because they were tortured.
There is your truth commission.
Nobody is above the law.
Prosecute.
saywhat?
February 25th, 2009
6:22 pm
All those in favor of torture, be sure to volunteer for it so we can find out how much you really know about the mysterious circumstances of Obama’s birth. You can rest assured while you suffer thatyou are helping to prevent another 9/11.
Rufus
February 25th, 2009
6:25 pm
If you like style over substance then you didn’t like what the governor said, and you loved the president’s “campaign speech.”
Taxpayer
February 25th, 2009
6:27 pm
Torture is listening to Republicans brag about their ability to do nothing. Then again, they do it so well — nothing, that is.
AmVet
February 25th, 2009
6:31 pm
I have heard many words used to describe Dick Cheney over the past eight unending years.
But gravitas?
Feckless seems more fitting…
Taxpayer
February 25th, 2009
6:37 pm
Torture is condoned by the Republican war-mongers because it simply fits in with what they consider as acceptable behavior on their parts. You know, that preemption stuff. Don’t you know every one of those neocons would be singing a high-pitched tune to the contrary if they were on the receiving end. It would be the one time that they would choose not to do nothing. They’d be singing like canaries.
Taxpayer
February 25th, 2009
6:39 pm
Careful, AmVet. Dick carries a loaded shot-gun and he’s not scared to use it. So, don’t turn your back on him. After all, he believes in preemption.
G
February 25th, 2009
6:40 pm
We (and the rest of the world) need to know all the worst of what’s been done in our name at Guantanamo. We need to drag into the light all those who authorized it or (by their silence) gave implied consent.
But let’s not do anything to damage the chance of putting these people on trial, in an international tribunal, for war crimes. It’s time for the United States to join the International Criminal Court:
http://www.icc-cpi.int/about.html
“The ICC is a court of last resort. It will not act if a case is investigated or prosecuted by a national judicial system unless the national proceedings are not genuine, for example if formal proceedings were undertaken solely to shield a person from criminal responsibility. In addition, the ICC only tries those accused of the gravest crimes.”
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Feith, Woo, and that whole rotten bunch of bloodthirsty warmongers deserve to end their days in prison or at the end of a rope.
Chad Harris
February 25th, 2009
6:42 pm
Far more powerful than any “torture comission were the statements of new OLC Chief Professor Dawn Johnsen this afternoon to Senate Judiciary (available for playing on real player tomorrow morning on SJC’s site) when OLC Chief Johnson said that she will review and release memos that Attorney Generals Gonzo and Mukasey refused to release and will move quickly to rescind and reverse any of the former Bush OLC’s torture initiatives and opinions.
Johnsen, and the Deputy AGs in her agency, Dave Barron and Marty Lederman have blogged extensively criticizing the Bush initiatives to implement torture.
I particularly liked the reference to Bush OLC during the hearing as “Cheney’s Little House of Horrors” by Senator and former US Attorney Sheldon Whitehead.
Chad Harris
February 25th, 2009
6:45 pm
It was also made clear that Mukasey refused to release an opinion as to whether waterboarding was torture because he alleged he didn’t understand what waterboarding was. That could have and can be easily remedied by waterboarding Mukasy. That’s not a wild and crazy idea, because attorneys in the Bush OLC did subject themselves to waterboarding. Mukasey should have as well to gain insight into what it is.
Class of '98
February 25th, 2009
6:46 pm
Yeah, and calling someone a coward on the anonymous internet is SOOOOO courageous.
Class of '98
February 25th, 2009
6:48 pm
You pinkos would call FDR a “warmonger” for declaring war on Japan. We were attacked, remember?
We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.
AmVet
February 25th, 2009
6:51 pm
That’s OK Taxpayer. I can outshoot that old fool anytime, anywhere…
The disgraceful, torture-endorsing Bush administration and their ardent chickenhawk Talibaptist supporters will go down in history as complete failures…
Taxpayer
February 25th, 2009
6:54 pm
It also really takes a non-brave person to get on an “anonymous” (snicker) blog and call another blogger such trite tripe as liar, stupid, dumb, moron, troglodyte, dullard, etc. So, what is your point Class O 98.
Taxpayer
February 25th, 2009
6:56 pm
Class O 98, We were indeed attacked by Japan and we attacked them as we should have. Point?
danjonglee
February 25th, 2009
6:56 pm
Strong leaders like Stalin and Mao would never approve of torture and the suspects caught would be investigated and punished.
NRB
February 25th, 2009
6:57 pm
Interesting…so why wasn’t the Democrat controlled Congress investigating “torture”, since they’ve been in charge for the past three years now?
Maybe because there hasnt been any torture? Ya think?
GodHatesTrash, Superstar
February 25th, 2009
7:00 pm
IQ ‘98, and it would have been great if Sherman had converted Georgia to basic human decency.
Paul
February 25th, 2009
7:00 pm
So much for the influence of Pres Obama on his party in Congress.
Jay, I think it difficult for such group as those pushing this to limit it to exploration, not prosecution. I see a circus in the making.
The Bush Administration will claim no foul as their legal opinion (the same ones accepted for so many months by House and Senate Democrats) is the practices did not constitute torture. We do not prosecute on matters of opinion. Statutes will have to be cited; wartime exigencies will have to be dismissed. You’ve alluded that the investigation will cross party lines but then there will be charges of limiting the scope, relevance of witnesses and the inevitable cover-up.
For the record I will again offer that the three waterboarding events did yield information, saved lives and were effective. I believe CIA Director Tenet has stated this on numerous occasions. I will also offer that all the rest – from the unsupervised, leadershipless fiasco at Abu Ghraib to other instances, were not and the alternatives proposed when 1) time is not critical and 2) when we have no idea what the prisoner knows, are the only alternatives that should be pursued.
I will also offer that any investigation should also include the Clinton Administration, calling as witnesses Pres Clinton for his signing off on rendition, where no amount of dissembling will convince anyone we did not know the countries involved practiced torture; VP Gore for his signing of a rendition order; and, CIA Director Panetta, to find out just what counsel he gave the pres and VP in these matters.
Chad Harris
February 25th, 2009
7:01 pm
It is ludicrous and consummately stupid when wingnutters project their delusions about commenters’ personal lives who they don’t know. It is equally stupid for wingnutters to project what other people would do when attacked.
I do know that when the wingnutter administration invaded a country that had no plans to attack us they were answered by massive losses in the last two elections in 2006 and 2008. Repeating that strategy in 2010 and 2012 will result in the same pattern.
Taxpayer
February 25th, 2009
7:03 pm
“We” sent some folks in the US military to jail for what they did to prisoners. There were even pictures floating around the Internet on some of it. Maybe they chose not to call that torture. Ironic though, that some of those activities took place in a country that had a leader that liked to torture people and were done by people from a country that claimed, among other things, to be fighting to bring said torturers to justice. Strange indeed. Almost hypocritical if not entirely hypocritical.
Bubba
February 25th, 2009
7:05 pm
I only wish Sherman were in charge at Gitmo. We’d have bin Laden in irons by now.
Chad Harris
February 25th, 2009
7:06 pm
Naw. Bush OLC Goldsmith, Bybee and Bradbury not confirmed by Congress were issuing secret memos condoning torture as legal. These same memors will be rescinded by new OLC Chief Johnsen and she concurred that torture approved by DOJ during Bush was run out of Cheney’s little house of horrors.
It is a myth to act as if and say that after 2006 the Dems were in full control of Congress. There was then a narrow margin of 50-49-1 independent.
That’s hardly control. Now the Dems are in control, but what role the Blue Dog Bush subserviant dems are going to play.
Why is there only one indicted talking head (Delay) on his way to prison with his trial to resume next month pontificating on TV? Why don’t they ask him to talk about his indictment?
Chad Harris
February 25th, 2009
7:09 pm
The Taliban has never been stronger. Bush foreign policy and his throwing away 10-12 billion per year in Pakistan made sure of that.
Politically getting Bin Ladin will make people feel better, but the Taliban has been put in firm control as a matter Pakistan policy. The Taliban is on the verge of taking over Pakistan. 17,000 troops won’t do didly in Afghanistan, and 170,000 didn’t do jack when the Russians had the troops to place that many there.
That was the gist of the briefing McConnel gave to Obama. It was a parade of Bush failures, and failure of Republican oversight for 12 years.
GodHatesTrash, Superstar
February 25th, 2009
7:10 pm
Sherman burnt thousands of Georgia homes and did hundreds of dollars worth of damage.
Chad Harris
February 25th, 2009
7:11 pm
10-12 billion per month.
Chad Harris
February 25th, 2009
7:12 pm
Sherman did that because Georgia killed and raped generations of African Americans and refused to stop so they were stopped.
Chad Harris
February 25th, 2009
7:13 pm
Will they be televising Tom Delay on Hardball from prison?
AJC/DNC Management
February 25th, 2009
7:16 pm
WASHINGTON (AP) – Attorney General Eric Holder said Wednesday the Guantanamo detention center is a well-run, professional facility that will be difficult to close—but he’s still going to do it. Holder visited the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, on Monday and spoke to reporters about his trip during a news conference Wednesday.
Yeah, they are gonna turn all the little left wing pet project cut throats over to people that won’t f around with them.
Excellent!
Let’s these human debris find out what it is like to be……………………………tortured.
bwa
Bud Wiser
February 25th, 2009
7:20 pm
No need for the right wingers to plan any more attacks to forecast the results for the ‘10 election. Olahma has already made it clear he plans to annex Afghanistan.
No, no need at all. Oblahma’s socialistic takeover to run capitalism into the ground, combined with the economic and financial destruction that is being consummated through this disastrous spending bill should give the Republicans all the ammo they will need.
Of course, this is assuming we will still have free elections in two years………..
G
February 25th, 2009
7:20 pm
Chad Harris @ 7:13 Hopefully, Delay will be occupied with something else, such as mending from being beaten by other prisoners.
Bud Wiser
February 25th, 2009
7:21 pm
I only wish we Americans had a third alternative party. These two stink of corruption.
Taxpayer
February 25th, 2009
7:21 pm
GodHatesTrash, Superstar February 25th, 2009 7:10 pm
Sherman burnt thousands of Georgia homes and did hundreds of dollars worth of damage.
And if he marched through today, that would still be the case, in today’s dollars, of course.
AJC/DNC Management
February 25th, 2009
7:25 pm
It tells you all you need to know about liberals when you see them wishing fellow Americans be beaten or killed while they whine about supposed torture of cut throat women and children killers-
G February 25th, 2009 7:20 pm Chad Harris @ 7:13 Hopefully, Delay will be occupied with something else, such as mending from being beaten by other prisoners.
It doesn’t get any sicker than this.
Chad Harris
February 25th, 2009
7:27 pm
Paul wrote:
We do not prosecute on matters of opinion. Statutes will have to be cited; wartime exigencies will have to be dismissed.
We isn’t who you think it is anymore. People who acted on illegal Bush OLC opinions will in fact be prosecuted and several of them have already.
If you think I’m kidding, tomorrow download the confirmation hearing for Dawn Johnsen from SJC’s site.
The woman who will be in charge of deciding who is prfosecuted cited those statutes and precedents this afternoon at her hearing. She did it for eight years as a blogger as did her two new Deputy AGs from Harvard and Georgetown law schools, Marty Lederman and David Barron. Further people have already been prosecuted. Ex CIAster Dusty Foggo is being sentenced today and tomorrow. It has been reported that Porter Goss purgered himself at the trial.
Mrs. Godzilla
February 25th, 2009
7:28 pm
Jay,
I disagree. Sorta’.
The goal should be to know the truth. Prosecution, as required.
G
February 25th, 2009
7:29 pm
Non-Management @7:25 Go cry to your mommy. You probably need a diaper change.
Chad Harris
February 25th, 2009
7:30 pm
That would be purjured.
jon
February 25th, 2009
7:32 pm
Yet long before “waterboarding” entered the public discourse, the CIA gave key legislative overseers about 30 private briefings, some of which included descriptions of that technique and other harsh interrogation methods, according to interviews with multiple U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge.
With one known exception, no formal objections were raised by the lawmakers briefed about the harsh methods during the two years in which waterboarding was employed, from 2002 to 2003, said Democrats and Republicans with direct knowledge of the matter. The lawmakers who held oversight roles during the period included Pelosi and Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) and Sens. Bob Graham (D-Fla.) and John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), as well as Rep. Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.) and Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan).
Individual lawmakers’ recollections of the early briefings varied dramatically, but officials present during the meetings described the reaction as mostly quiet acquiescence, if not outright support. “Among those being briefed, there was a pretty full understanding of what the CIA was doing,” said Goss, who chaired the House intelligence committee from 1997 to 2004 and then served as CIA director from 2004 to 2006. “And the reaction in the room was not just approval, but encouragement.”
Washington Post 12/9/07
Chad Harris
February 25th, 2009
7:36 pm
There is a very good chance that in fact in many cases prosecution will absolutely be the goal.
Tonihhy on Rachel Madow Pelosi criticizes Truth Commission as inadequate, advocates criminal prosecutions
Why a war crimes fact-finding commission could uniquely enable prosecutions
Taxpayer
February 25th, 2009
7:41 pm
Did they give demonstrations of waterboarding to the committees so they would understand what it was and did they compare their definition of waterboarding to other definitions of torture, etc. In my mind, Clinton opened a lot of eyes with his infamous definition of “is” and now people will forevermore (or should anyway) be asking themselves just what a politician means by any given statement. I mean, after all, there is a huge difference between statements such as “I will not allow the use of torture” and “we do not torture”, if you intend for there to be or not to be, depending on the question.
Mike
February 25th, 2009
7:48 pm
“the principles we claim to be defending?”
Like what? A free market society? LOL
Bubba
February 25th, 2009
7:48 pm
Sherman didn’t give a rat’s a$$ about the African-Americans. He did it because he was a great soldier. My god, the man tried to negotiate a peace with the South which would have restored the South to the Union, no questions asked. It’s a good thing you libs weren’t around then, you’d have been so concerned about the civil rights of the Southerners, Sherman and Grant wouldn’t have stood a chance. You’d have free them all from the northern prison camps and let them go back to war because they weren’t getting due process.