Some days, the economic news just stuns you

Some days, the never-ending deluge of bad economic news begins to feel downright surreal. As recently as six months ago, none of this would have seemed remotely possible; now it’s daily reality, with no apparent bottom.

For example, here are today’s top headlines at Yahoo’s finance page:

# Stocks seesaw as housing plan details unfold- AP
# Home construction drops far more than expected- AP
# Industrial production worse than expected in Jan.- AP
# Oil stays near $35 after big drop overnight- AP
# General Electric CEO declines bonus for 2008- AP
# GM, Chrysler seek billions more, to cut more jobs- AP
# General Electric CEO declines bonus for 2008- AP
# Goodyear cutting nearly 5,000 jobs after 4Q loss- AP
# Analyst: “Nationalization” of Citi and BofA Inevitable in ‘09- Tech

What’s the worst news on that list? That we’re nationalizing huge banks? That home construction dropped far more than expected — and it was no doubt expected to drop a LOT?

Maybe it’s the CEO of GE declining a bonus. As a sign of profound change, that one’s a doozy.

170 comments Add your comment

Copyleft

February 18th, 2009
12:17 pm

Yeah, the Bush Depression is going to take a lot of work to fix. Hope the stimulus plan starts working soon.

Joe

February 18th, 2009
12:21 pm

Don’t worry, the right wingers who post here will find a way to blame this on the stimulus package and hope for things to get worse, because, you know, they are so patriotic…

Davo

February 18th, 2009
12:32 pm

So the boat is sinking and Obama wants to pump more water into it.

Great plan. See y’all in the depression.

tcoach

February 18th, 2009
12:33 pm

Joe some are over the top, but I find it a little harsh to paint everyone who has questions or disagreements with the bailout as hoping for things to get worse.

I mean I have been a hawks fan since i was 5 or 6 and I disagree and even talk badly about the coaches, players and the GM, from time to time, when they do not make a decision I agree with. But that does not mean I suddenly hope for the other team to go on a 20-0 run. It simply means that I do not agree with the decision made. Still want them to win just as bad, but I disagree with the actions taken.

Paul

February 18th, 2009
12:33 pm

What’s a doozy is that the guy’s still chairman of GE. That, in a nutshell, is a prime example of what’s wrong with our corporate structure.

This’ll continue, Jay. In some areas it’ll get worse. Pres Obama knows if it doesn’t turn around within a year and a half the Reps’ll get the House in 2010 and if it continues in the doldrums, the White House in 2012. Which is why I’m amazed he ceded so much to Spkr Pelosi. If given a choice, would she sacrifice herself or her Pres for what she wanted in the bill? No contest, there.

But it could just work. Hopefully, it will. Then the pricetag will largely be seen to have been worth it. But I notice the Dem spin machine is already working – the stimulus bill was designed to create, what, 3 or 4 million jobs? Last Sunday on one of the news shows I heard a Dem higher-up use the phrase “create or preserve” three million jobs. Same from Pres Obama a day or so ago – added in the ‘or preserve.”

So job losses can still keep going on at horrendous levels and the answer will be “but without the bill it would’ve been 3 million more jobs lost.”

Looks like SecState Clinton brought some of her “Slick Willie” mojo to the White House after all!

DebbieDoRight

February 18th, 2009
12:36 pm

Isn’t it funny how Pres. Obama just took office less than a month ago — but already the Repuglicans have made the current recession “his” problem? It’s like they’ve totally disassociated themselves from the reality of their actions!! Now all of a sudden, after 8 years of spending like drunken sailors on shore leave, they’ve turned “fiscally conservative” and are worried about “the economy”. Amazing — hypocrite of the year award should go to each and every last one of them!! They don’t care about what happens to the American public! Their battle cry is :”We’re not trying to help Obama be re-elected in 4 years”. Repuglican Taliban at its finest!!!

Paul

February 18th, 2009
12:36 pm

Oh, and that guy (Immelt) who’s head of GE? Has seen stock prices decline from what, 40 bucks a share to 10 on his watch over the past 7 or so years? Who’s been rolling right along on a 20 million or so yearly salary? Great ‘pay for performance’ record.

Yup, that guy. Pres Obama just appointed him as one of his Economic Advisors.

Advisor?!!? With a record like that? Immelt’s judgment I knew was faulty. I’m beginning to wonder about Obama’s.

DebbieDoRight

February 18th, 2009
12:39 pm

We’ve been in a recession for the past 5 years. Bush’s stimulus checks last year and the steady falling interests rates should’ve tipped you off a long time ago.

cubalibre

February 18th, 2009
12:39 pm

I think we can rightly add most CEOs of Fortune 100 companies to that category previously occupied only by weather forecasters: people who are wrong more often than not but still keep their jobs. BTW, Luckovich’s cartoon today is brilliant! (Not to plug somebody else here in your blog, Jay, but…)

Paul

February 18th, 2009
12:39 pm

DebbieDoRight

My opinion: who caused it is essentially irrelevant at this point. We elected Pres Obama to fix it. It wasn’t the classic delayed recession, as it was when Bush assumed office (many economists thought a recession was on the way). Same thing happened with Clinton.

This one was underway, and it’s gotten worse. But Obama was elected to fix it, no excuses, no blame shifting. He will succeed or he will fail. No amount of fingerpointing to Republicans or Spkr Pelosi or anyone else is going to change that. He ran on a platform or accountability and has already addressed this.

cubalibre

February 18th, 2009
12:55 pm

DDR @ 12:36 pm – Absolute truth, succinctly put.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
12:58 pm

Joe,
There you go again assuming things about people. We “right wingers” understand your kind very well. The Al Sharptons who call white people racist for not voting for black people even if the black people want to tank the economy. IE Barrack Hussein Obama. Yeah, Hussien is his middle name. Please tell us how the stimulus package is stimulating growth? Have you read it? Because not one senator, nor the president himself, has read the document.

tcoach,
I had it out with this bag of wind yesterday. Don’t waste your time on Joe or else he may call you a racist for disagreeing with him.

Joe

February 18th, 2009
12:59 pm

tcoach,

I’m talking about the people who actively want for it to fail. And my analogy that I used yesterday is this: those who want the stimulus to fail ARE pulling for the other team to have a 20-0 run so that the coach that they don’t like would get fired.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
12:59 pm

DebbieDoRight,
you wrote that we have been in a recession for the last 5 years. Every economist has said that we have been in a recession for less than 2 years. So, your analysis of the economy is wrong.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:01 pm

Joe,
where were you the last 8 years when democrats wanted Bush to fail? So, I can now turn this argument around on you, comrade. We right wingers don’t have to want it to fail. It already is failing because there is NOTHING in the bill that will enact growth.

Joe

February 18th, 2009
1:01 pm

Commie, when did I call you a racist? Oh, that’s right. I didn’t.

You just don’t have a clue, do you?

Brad Steal

February 18th, 2009
1:02 pm

Paul at 12:39: “But Obama was elected to fix it (the economy, sic), no excuses, no blame shifting. ”

Paul, you accountability element seems accurate, but you could easily argue that Obama was elected because Bush and republican endorsed policies were so bad and his administration was so unsuccessful.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:03 pm

Joe,
by the way, a silly sports analogy doesn’t work because peoples lives and jobs are not at stake. Wanting a team to go up by 20 points doesn’t result in the entire economy being brought down.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:05 pm

Joe,
the only one who doesn’t have a clue is you. Where did I say that you called me a racist? You assume too much, comrade. I was making a joke to tcoach. Why? Because libs like to call right wingers names like racist, nazis etc… Is that clear enough English for you, comrade?

DebbieDoRight

February 18th, 2009
1:10 pm

CommunistAJC: There were several economists who said that we were. However, they were silenced by the Bush Administrators and by the Faux News corp as “chicken littles”. I guess those Chicken Little’s were correct huh?

Paul: Yes, Obama was elected by the people to try and fix the economy; but the repuglican taliban was also elected to work for the people. So far, who do you think is trying to uphold their oaths of office and pledges that they made to the people?

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:13 pm

DebbieDoRight,
when did Faux News, as you so elegantly put it, silence anyone? I’d love for you to show any proof that Bush or Fox silenced any economist. Oh, DebbieDoRight, you are so amusing.

Joe

February 18th, 2009
1:14 pm

Commie, pointing out an actual failure and stating outright that you want someone to fail are two different things.

Anyway, I’m done with you, since you neither have the desire nor the ability to engage in intelligent discourse.

tcoach

February 18th, 2009
1:14 pm

Joe,
The only point of my post was that you were lumping all who may have a right wing view are wanting the president to fail.

You did not make any type of distguishing comments in your 1st post. You simply lumped all right-thinking individuals into the catagory of fringe elements of their party.

I also only knew of Rush being th only one on record as of saying he hopes that Obama’s policy/plan /stimulus failed. Who on here have you seen say that they hope Obama fails? Not a policy or an action fails, but who said they hope Obama fails?
Site please.

Taxpayer

February 18th, 2009
1:14 pm

All that stuff is your ordinary run-of-the-mill recession era stuff that you expect. No, Jay, the shocking, stop the world on its axis economic malaise of the day has to be the fact that Sarah Palin has to fork over back taxes. Yes, I said “the fact that Sarah Palin owes back taxes. It’s a fact and it involves Sarah Palin and unpaid taxes. By the way, did I mention that Sarah Palin owes back taxes.

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
1:15 pm

Paul,

Did you watch any of the SNL specials during the election? Did you see the news clip with Keenan Thompson doing the “fix it” guy? That was hilarious. I’ve been looking for a good video of it and can’t find one.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:20 pm

Joe,
again, you fail to see my points. Goodbye? Oh Joe, I hardly knew ye!

AJC/DNC Management

February 18th, 2009
1:21 pm

Joe February 18th, 2009 12:21 pm Don’t worry, the right wingers who post here will find a way to blame this on the stimulus package and hope for things to get worse, because, you know, they are so patriotic…

The “stimulus” is just one liberal socialist nail in America’s coffin, Oblahmi is fixin to hammer quite a few more, and rationale people, you know, the ones with the money and jobs, they know this is going to have to be paid for someday, so why leave hard earned capital where it can be subject to confiscatory taxation?

The day that Oblahmi won the democrat primary, the Dow Jones Industrial was 12,800. Today it is 7,500and headed down. Looks like a flight from risk to me.

But hey, you dimwits got the Big 8 Dollahs a week, snort it up and be…………uh, happy.

ew

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
1:21 pm

I saw the COO of Chrysler on CNN this morning. I couldn’t believe listening to this guy. They are asking for billions more, going to cut jobs, and they claim they are viable. Oh, that’s nice.

If it were up to me, and these [insert word of choice here - see I can be nice] asked for more tax money, the first thing out of my mouth would be, turn in your resignation, and I’ll discuss this with the next guy.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:24 pm

tcoach,
yesterday Joe said that I want him to fail after I said I wanted Obamas socialist plans to fail. He then accused me of wanting millions of Americans to suffer. This was after I opposed Socialist health care. I called him a one upper and it went from there. He’s a typical lib who likes to play this point and blame game. Facts and numbers don’t matter to Joe only symbolism.

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
1:27 pm

Paul,

I did find this video – Larry the Goose

Larry the Goose mentions that word we were referencing earlier that I thought I needed on a t-shirt.

Joe

February 18th, 2009
1:28 pm

tcoach,

Yesterday, Commie said that he wanted the stimulus plan to fail. A few posts above this one, Andy says the same thing.

Granted, those two are nutjobs, but they are the ones to which I was referring in my initial post to this thread.

I should also note that when I use the term “right winger”, I’m talking about the nutjobs. I do not use the terms “right winger” and “conservative” interchangably. A conservative is someone with whom you can have a conversation. A right winger is not.

One can disagree with the stimulus, but to hope that it fails means that you are essentially hoping for the lives of millions of Americans to get worse, because that is what will happen if it fails. For some reason, two posters here don’t get that.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:28 pm

Bosch,
the whole car crisis is a scam. What do you not understand? Unions have destroyed the car companies. Last year the guvmint said that the first stimulus bill would solve the problem. No stimulus bill can cure a bad bank or company. Obama and the dems are all appalled at how the car companies are wanting more money yet they gave them a blank check. Stupid is as stupid does, Bosch. Government can’t solve problems and only creates new ones. Also, unions never budged when the car companies asked them to. No wonder Toyota and Honda destroy American car companies.

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
1:30 pm

Commie,

What is Socialist health care?

Dusty

February 18th, 2009
1:31 pm

Oh, gee whiz and golly gee, here we go again listening to liberals determined to continue the ol’ “Bush Did It” monotony. That chant started the day Bush was first elected quite legally. It continues today in the unforgotten hate from poor losers.

Liberal Democrats were quiet after 9/11 as Bush pulled America to its feet. They appreciated for a few moments, the fact that we had a strong president unafriad of our enemies or our future.

Now, with “hard” economic times we are left to guess whether an inexperienced man in national politics can be strong in these times. Obama makes a good speech!!! Hallelujah!! His cronies put out plans that sound like Santa Claus is coming to America. Do we doubt? Yes, we do.

So, Dems, keep pointing your fingers at Bush but America’s attention is on Obama and his magic act. And it is HIS ACT. I hope it works. Pulling plush rabbits out of an empty hat is clever. But I never believed in magic. There’s always a “catch”.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:32 pm

tcoach,
if you want the truth go look at yesterdays blog. I said that I wanted the plan to fail BECAUSE IT IS SOCIALISM! JOE CAN NOT GET THAT THROUGH IS THICK SKULL! I NEVER SAID I WANTED OBAMA TO FAIL. HE LIED. GOT IT?

Joe,
do you expect anyone to believe you when you are calling me names? You know nothing about me. Just because someone disagrees with you and calls out your lies does not make them a nut job. By the way, NUT JOB IS TWO WORDS!

Taxpayer

February 18th, 2009
1:33 pm

At least Perdue is not stupid enough to turn down that stimulus money. He could, you know, because he can’t run again. It’s no skin off his back. But, if he did, the state legislators would have to vote to keep the stimulus money. That would be the Republican state legislature that does not believe in taking taxpayer dollars for no government programs such as schools, police, fire, jails, judges…In fact, I have not heard of a single governor just saying no. All those tough talking Republicans saying that the stimulus is this terrible Democrat socialist communist theft of taxpayer dollars have their arms extended and ready to grab what they’re entitled to. Shocking, I know. What happened to those principles. 8O

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:34 pm

Bosch,
Socialist health care is what Canada, UK, France and Germany have. It’s where guvmint runs the system, determines what kind of care you receive and dictates when you can have surgery. Clear enough for you? Go down to your local DMV and imagine nurses and doctors working there.

Mrs. Godzilla

February 18th, 2009
1:36 pm

I’m not at all stunned.

I don’t think we are anywhere near the bottom.

It’s gonna get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

We have an family economic disaster plan, that I hope we never have to use.

Buck up Americans, financial 9/11 is upon us.

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
1:36 pm

Commie,

I’m not surprised one bit – but unions haven’t destroyed car companies, car companies have destroyed car companies. I don’t want to get into a union discussion – and no I’m not all pro-union.

Why do you continue this “the government is evil and creates all these problems” routine? It’s so not true.

I’ve said many times here that the government can not fix our economic woes, the corporations will have to do that by not paying all their profits to their top executives. It’s just as outrageous to me that a corporation cuts 20,000 jobs while paying their executives what they do, and giving tax money to stock holders – that’s dividend money they didn’t earn.

No, Commie, unions, and government are not the evil bad guys here, they are certainly a factor – but don’t deserve all the blame.

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
1:38 pm

Commie,

That’s not what Obama or the Democrats are proposing and you know it. You just like to brand things that way because it’s easy and you don’t know how to explain what it is they are really trying to do.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:38 pm

Taxpayer,
you wrote: In fact, I have not heard of a single governor just saying no.

Bobby Jindal did. Jindal 2012!

Dave R

February 18th, 2009
1:39 pm

Chalk me up as someone who hopes President “Hope and Change” fails miserably. To me, that is the ONLY way that people will finally realize that massive spending plans and government intervention in our financial and private lives is NEVER the way to go.

My hope is that it will knock all you limousine liberals back to the Stone Age, never to surface in numbers sufficient to endanger us again.

And just so that you can see how phony each of you Beautiful People are, here’s a little story about how you love to have others pay taxes, but somehow fail to step up to the plate when given the opportunity:

“And while we’re on the subject of Massachusetts; once again, the limousine liberals from that most liberal of states have shown just how two-faced they really are. As anyone who has been reading this site for years knows, Mass. has two income tax rates: a 5.35% mandatory rate and a VOLUNTARY 5.85% tax rate. This was set up by the legislature so that those who truly believed that government was the best solution for all our problems could give a little more on their own. Since becoming law, the phony-baloney liberals up North have never been able to crack the 1% mark of people willing to give that little extra. After all, it’s for the children, isn’t it? So why not give until it hurts more, right? This year, these liberal layabouts are thus far voluntarily giving to the tune of 1/20th of one percent of those who could ante up the extra dough. And just to show how mealy-mouthed the “Hope and Change” crowd is, the average taxable income of those who are giving extra is about $18,000 per year. Where’d all those rich liberals go when asked to voluntarily put up some more dough? Howie Carr of the Boston Herald says it best:
“Theories abound as to why Beautiful People are so damn cheap, whether it’s evading taxes (see Geithner, Rangel, Daschle and now maybe Emanuel) or giving next to nothing to charity (see Biden, Kerry, et al.). Perhaps – make that probably – they’re just a bunch of phonies and hypocrites.”
I guess, according to now-VP Joe Biden, that it’s only patriotic to pay taxes when you’re a conservative.”

Lovely story, isn’t it? And sadly, all too true. I can almost forgive some folks for not paying their taxes properly, especially given the complexity of our tax code (FairTax, anyone?), but the nominee for Treasury? Not a chance. Nor can I give a pass to those that believe in the practice of forcing OTHERS to give more in taxes for failing to step up and give some more voluntarily, as shown above

Liberals. All talk – no action. Especially when it comes to THEIR money.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:41 pm

Bosch,
if guvvvvvvvvmint was able to fix the economy we’d never have had a recession. Ever.
Now, what do you think government controlled health care is? Socialist health care. Please, I’d love for you to prove me wrong on this. I would LOVE to be wrong on this. Have you not paid attention to Obamas campaign speeches? Hillary Care 93 ring a bell?

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:42 pm

Mrs. Godzilla,
I am totally with you on what is going on. It ain’t over and we are in huge trouble. Remember when Russia went bankrupt? We’re about there.

Joe

February 18th, 2009
1:43 pm

tcoach,
yesterday Joe said that I want him to fail after I said I wanted Obamas socialist plans to fail. He then accused me of wanting millions of Americans to suffer. This was after I opposed Socialist health care. I called him a one upper and it went from there. He’s a typical lib who likes to play this point and blame game. Facts and numbers don’t matter to Joe only symbolism.

False statement.

You said that you wanted the stimulus to fail. I replied that because the purpose of the stimulus is to help millions of Americans, and if you want for the stimulus to fail, then you want for the purpose of the stimulus not to happen. Therefore, if you want the stimulus to fail, then you DO NOT want to help millions of Americans, which means that you want for America to fail. It’s pretty simple.

Again, you don’t have to agree with the stimulus, but you shouldn’t actively hope for its failure, either.

I haven’t pointed and blamed anyone. You really need to get on your medication, because you’re seeing things that aren’t even there. Heck, you quoted me yesterday and were STILL unable to grasp a simple sentence (remember your rambling “no one likes Rush” post, where you claimed that I said that no one likes Rush, even though in the post that you quoted, NOTHING like that was written?), so please, please get the help that you need.

You seem like a paranoid schizophrenic…

Taxpayer

February 18th, 2009
1:44 pm

Well, Commie. Let’s wait and see if he walks the walk. After all, it’s easy for a politician to say that they were against something before they were for it.

mm

February 18th, 2009
1:45 pm

Commie writes:

“Please tell us how the stimulus package is stimulating growth? Have you read it? Because not one senator, nor the president himself, has read the document.”

“We right wingers don’t have to want it to fail. It already is failing because there is NOTHING in the bill that will enact growth.”

OK, so nobody has read it. Then how do you know it won’t work. Have you read it? How do you know money goes to ACORN? How do you know welfare is being brought to life? You wingnuts realy should read instead of getting your marching orders from Rush. Geez you people look like fools.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:46 pm

THOMAS SOWELL SHOULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

Rush to Wait
A 1,000-page bill passed in two days sat unsigned on the president’s desk for three.

By Thomas Sowell

The big story last week was the incredible congressional rush to pass a bill that was more than 1,000 pages long in just two days — after which it sat on the president’s desk for three days while the Obamas were away on a holiday.

There is the same complete inconsistency in the bill itself. Despite the urgency in President Obama’s rhetoric, as well as in Congress’s haste in passing a bill which few — if any — members had time to read, much less consider, most of the actual spending will take place next year at the earliest.

Not even the most Alice-in-Wonderland actions will arouse the suspicions of those who have what William James once called “the will to believe.”

Nowhere was that will to believe greater than in the election of Barack Obama to be president of the United States, not on the basis of any actual accomplishment, but as the repository of hopes and symbolism. His supporters among the voters and in the media are not going to stop believing now.

It will take a lot more than blatant inconsistency for the faithful to lose faith. It may take catastrophe — and there may well be catastrophe.

For some, even catastrophe under Obama can be blamed on George W. Bush. After all, Franklin D. Roosevelt was elected to an unprecedented third term in 1940, after two terms in which the unemployment rate never fell below 10 percent and was above 20 percent for 21 consecutive months.

FDR also inspired the will to believe — and he also had Herbert Hoover on whom to blame all the country’s troubles.

It may seem strange, to those who never lived through those times, that someone could be president of the United States for eight straight years and nevertheless escape responsibility for mass unemployment by blaming his long-departed predecessor. But we may yet see a rerun of that scenario in our own time.

Nothing in the amateurish way the current administration has begun suggests that they have mastered even the mechanics of governing, much less the complexities of the huge national problems looming ahead, at home and abroad.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NjVkOTNmYWEyNDdlYzZkMjU3ZmYxZTc3OTcwNzU5Nzg=

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
1:46 pm

Commie,

The government will not control health care in Obama’s plan. Yes, I did listen to Obamas speeches, and not once did he say that he plans for the government to take over health care.

Joe

February 18th, 2009
1:48 pm

Joe,
do you expect anyone to believe you when you are calling me names? You know nothing about me. Just because someone disagrees with you and calls out your lies does not make them a nut job. By the way, NUT JOB IS TWO WORDS!

1) I’ve written no lies here.
2) I’ve not called you names. You, however, called me a jerk, just yesterday.
3) Answer this: If the stimulus is all that is being offered to help America right now, and if its failure means that America will be much worse off than it is now, then doesn’t hoping for the failure of the stimulus mean that one hopes that America will be much worse than it is now? If not, please explain how you came to that conclusion. Thanks!

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:49 pm

Joe,
LET ME TRY TO CLARIFY THIS IN CAVEMAN TERMS FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND. IT’S PRETTY SIMPLE REALLY. THE STIMULUS BILL IS NOTHING BUT PORK. NOT ONE THING IN THAT BILL WILL HELP PEOPLE. IT DOES NOT CREATE JOBS. IT DOESN’T HELP COMPANIES GET BACK ON THEIR FEET. WE LIVE IN A REPUBLIC WHERE WE HAVE THE THE RIGHT TO PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. NOT ONCE IN OUR CONSTITUTION DOES IT STATE THAT THE GOVERNMENT WILL SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS. CAPITALISM IS ABOUT MAKING OUR OWN WAY AND MONEY. MAKE SENSE JOE? IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A BROKEN RECORD.

AJC/DNC Management

February 18th, 2009
1:51 pm

Joe February 18th, 2009 1:28 pm Yesterday, Commie said that he wanted the stimulus plan to fail. A few posts above this one, Andy says the same thing.

I do not hope the “stimulus” will fail.

I know it will fail.

duh

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:53 pm

mm,
no POLITICIAN has read the bill. Not one. Bacrock Obama said that one of his PROMISES was to let the American people have 10 days to read ALL of his bills before he signed them. We had TWO days to read it. Not one democrat or republican read the entire bill. The only fools will be the people who are out of jobs, lose their homes and end up in bread lines Soviet Style. Good luck in your belief in GUVMENT!

Taxpayer

February 18th, 2009
1:53 pm

Dave R

February 18th, 2009
1:57 pm

Ms. Godzilla, the REAL 9/11 was caused by outsiders who want to kill Americans.

THIS little economic dust-up is our own government’s fault, fostered by liberal policies of control by people who have never created a job in their lives and never managed a business or a payroll – our elected representatives. It is a dishonor to the men and women who lost their lives on September 11, 2001 to even remotely equate the two, and you should be ashamed.

And as I am sure that there are some on this blog who will be jumping down my throat for wishing that some Americans suffer as a result of this economic crisis, well folks, that’s life. So if some people have to lose a home or a car because they were irresponsible enough to buy things they really couldn’t afford, maybe that is a wake-up call to them in their future.

And Bosch, when your car company is BILLIONS of dollars in debt, forgoing MILLIONS in pay or bonuses to executives is NOT the answer. Paying exorbitant salaries and benefits to workers whose only job is to pick up 4 screws and properly insert them in slot A is. And THAT’S the fault of the unions.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
1:58 pm

Joe,
didn’t you say that you were done talking to me? I guess that makes you a liar, Joe. And yes, you are class F jerk. Please go back to doing whatever it is that you do.

DebbieDoRight

February 18th, 2009
1:59 pm

Commie — Here are some websites. Now these websites don’t specifically say “Bush and Faux News silenced the dissenters, but they do point to a surprising lack of clarity on the part of the Bush Administration. A Recession was called in the early 90’s (after Bush passed that huge “trickle down” tax cut); but was never even mentioned by the Bush Team. As late as 2006 his Treasurer was saying that the economy was “fine” and “solid”, even though they knew better.

Umpires Give an Early Call: It’s Recession
By LOUIS UCHITELLE, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: December 30, 1990
Some economists, gathered here for the American Economic Association’s annual conference questioned whether the Dating Committee should have issued so early a pronouncement. One concern was that the declaration, from so important a body, might help to discourage consumer spending, business investment or other behavior that gets a nation out of recession.
The early announcement, made public in a news release distributed in the past week, suggested that the final determination will not be made until January or February at the earliest. “It appears likely that the committee will identify a month between June and September 1990 as the peak of activity in the economy and onset of a recession,” the committee said.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE7D7123FF933A05751C1A966958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

Paulson denies U.S. economy in recession
TOKYO, Feb. 9 2006(Xinhua) — U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said Saturday in Tokyo that the U.S. economy is not in recession and showed confidence about the long-term health of the world’s largest economy. “If you’re growing, you are not in recession,” Paulson told a press conference in Tokyo after a one-day meeting of finance ministers and central bank chiefs from the Group of Seven leading industrialized countries.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-02/09/content_7584458.htm

The 168 billion U.S. dollar package, which includes rebates for people and tax breaks for businesses, was speedily passed by Congress last week and signed into law on Wednesday by President George W. Bush. SIDEBAR: I wonder if those tax breaks that were passed in 2007, and which the repuglicans insisted upon in the stimulus package, ever worked? Hmmm……..
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-02/29/content_7689600.htm

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
2:00 pm

Dave R,
well said, Dave. Well said. If anyone jumps down your throat it will be Joe the blogger. Joe the blogger is Joe the plumbers little brother who accidentally got into the medicine cabinet as a child and swallowed one too many Xanex.

Dave R

February 18th, 2009
2:03 pm

Oh, and Taxpayer? Nice try on the “Sarah Palin owing taxes” thing. Except for one minor detail: The state changed the interpretation of taxation on her per diem income from one year to the next. Not her fault when they change the rules in mid-stream.

Timmie the Treasury Secretary?

Nope.

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
2:03 pm

Dave R,

Did you read above where I mentioned that I have no intention of getting into a union discussion and that is because that is a very gray area for me and that I’m not totally pro-union, so enough with the lecture and the almighty omnipotence, coupled with the pretense that you know exactly what the problem is, k?

AJC/DNC Management

February 18th, 2009
2:05 pm

“Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards,” said Holder, nation’s first black attorney general.

Can I get my K’s back?

Just for a little bit?

getalife

February 18th, 2009
2:05 pm

Gold is up .

Taxpayer

February 18th, 2009
2:06 pm

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
2:08 pm

Taxpayer,
you’re going after Sarah Palin when Bacrock has nominated four tax evaders? Your hypocrisy is showing, comrade.

Joe

February 18th, 2009
2:08 pm

Commie,

Let me type slowly for you:

If there are provisions within the stimulus plan that will help the American citizens (and the so-called pork), you say that you want for it to fail. For example, you are saying that you want for the tax relief that is written into the bill to fail.

If you want the stimulus package to fail, then you want for the money spent on the highways to fail.

If you want the stimulus package to fail, then you want for the people who would benefit from having part of their COBRA tab picked up to fail, because they can’t afford health insurance while between jobs.

If you want the stimulus package to fail, then you want for the $20 billion dollars that will be invested in green jobs to fail. This means that you not only want people’s jobs to fail, but you also want for a viable alternative to foreign oil to fail.

If you want the stimulus package to fail, then you want for schools in America to fail, because included in the stimulus package is $54 billion to prevent state budget cuts in education. It also includes $25 billion extra to No Child Left Behind and special ed programs. So wanting a failure of the stimulus package means that you want for those things to fail.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/how-the-stimulus-bill-could-affect-you.aspx

BTW, if I sound like a “broken record”, it’s because I have to ask you the same questions over and over again because you are either unwilling or unable to answer them.

@@

February 18th, 2009
2:08 pm

As recently as six months ago, none of this would have seemed remotely possible

Really, jay? I’ve always seen government incompetence as highly probable. That’s why I’m living debt-free and fighting the system to hold onto what’s mine, not theirs.

And GE’s, Jeffrey Immelt turning down a bonus after driving that company’s stock into the ground over the last ten years does not impress……no-bull.

Before we know it, the federal and state governments will be doing like California — I.O.U.’s in lieu of tax refunds. And here we all thought it would be “The Big One” that took ‘em out.

California’s guv may be a RINO, but that state is hemorrhaging true blue-blood from bleeding-heart liberals.

T

February 18th, 2009
2:09 pm

Anyone have any solutions or know what the actual problem is? Kinda feels like we are putting a bandage over a minor cut of a patient that is not breathing and heart has stopped.

Is the root of the economic crisis the housing market? Lets see if I have a small understanding of this. The mystic CDO’s and CDS’s were backed by failed mortages. That leaves all three financial entities with a 0 or negative value. Yet, the banks and other institutions have balled all of these things up over and over again. Fluff and puff. How do you determine the actual loss of these? I have read the actual number is in the trillions. Tarp doesn’t work what will?

The Big Three. Unions the problem? Maybe. Failure to adhere to current and future market trends? (absolutely) How do you get incomeless and homeless people to buy automobiles and other junk?

Can we spend our way out of this?

I do not see how this stimulus bill will work. I hope it helps.

Any answers? (without the he did it)

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
2:11 pm

Joe,
stop talking to me or I will have to get a restraining order.

Joe

February 18th, 2009
2:11 pm

Sorry, Commie, but I have to stand up when you decided to attack my character.

Plus, it’s an opportunity for everyone to see your true colors and lack of character.

Taxpayer

February 18th, 2009
2:14 pm

Dave,

You don’t pay back taxes if the law changes now. Legislation is not retro-active. She clearly tried to claim something that she should not have and the state let her know that her interpretation was wrong. Good try though.

Dave R

February 18th, 2009
2:14 pm

Sorry, Bosch, but it is intellectually dishonest to blame the executives for their salaries and bonuses which are a fraction of the cost of doing business, then completely lay off any discussion about the REAL causes of the auto industry’s problems (and it’s not just the unions).

And yes, I do know exactly what the problem is with our economy, the car companies and everything else plaguing our country.

Liberals.

Now, I could get into specifics, but as this is not MY blog, and the space required to articulate to you all the things that are needed to fix everything is more than I’m sure the AJC is willing to invest in disk storage, we’ll just leave it at that.

Joan

February 18th, 2009
2:15 pm

I am stunned by the angry discussions I see on these blogs. But I am heartened by the fact that many are at least thinking about matters that are devastating our country. I could cry because there are so many who seem entirely unaware of what is happening around them and couldn’t care less, and we march on to Socialism.

Mrs. Godzilla

February 18th, 2009
2:16 pm

Dave R

No D’uh.

However the 3 trillion dollar war and 1.4 trillion dollars worth of non stimulative tax cuts, financial shennigans and just plain greed have created a similir situation.

Joe

Your effort is heroic indeed. I salute you!

Rationality does not work on the irrational, but he sure is fun to poke when ya’ got nothing better to do! He reminds me of a whoopee cushion….push it and it squeezes out something rude.

Joe

February 18th, 2009
2:16 pm

Sorry, Bosch, but it is intellectually dishonest to blame the executives for their salaries and bonuses which are a fraction of the cost of doing business, then completely lay off any discussion about the REAL causes of the auto industry’s problems (and it’s not just the unions).

Actually, the unions have nothing to do with the major causes of the auto industry’s problems, as the unions don’t have any say in what vehicles are produced…

Taxpayer

February 18th, 2009
2:18 pm

What hypocrisy, Commie. I am just adding one more name to the list of those with obvious tax problems. I have also stated on here many times that I think that all elected officials should get routine tax audits. I believe in everyone paying their taxes and following the laws of the land. I cannot stand tax cheats.

DebbieDoRight

February 18th, 2009
2:18 pm

Oh, here’s another one: Bush Dismisses Iraq Recession: The War Has ‘Nothing To Do With The Economy’»

This morning on NBC’s Today Show, President Bush denied that the there’s any link between the faltering U.S. economy and $10 billion a month being spent on the Iraq war. In fact, according to Bush, the war is actually helping the economy:

CURRY: You don’t agree with that? It has nothing do with the economy, the war — spending on the war?

BUSH: I don’t think so. I think actually the spending in the war might help with jobs…because we’re buying equipment, and people are working. I think this economy is down because we built too many houses and the economy’s adjusting.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/18/bush-iraq-economy/

Dave R

February 18th, 2009
2:20 pm

Taxpayer, don’t you READ your own stories?

Here’s the very first line from your link: “Gov. Sarah Palin must pay income taxes on thousands of dollars in expense money she received while living at her Wasilla home, under a new determination by state officials.”

Note the words “under a new determination by state officials.”

Maybe if you weren’t so intent on finding fault with everything Republican, you’d notice those little pesky details. They changed the rules, Taxpayer.

Are you sure you’re not living in the basement with Chad Harris?

Joe

February 18th, 2009
2:21 pm

Thanks, Mrs. G. However, I fear that my efforts are for naught.

I mean, some people can’t even answer a direct question. They don’t even know the definitions of the words that they use, and they don’t know a thing about logic.

It’s truly sad. My heart goes out to them. And it’s only a couple of people who post here. Most of the conservatives are cool. It’s the right wingers (i.e., people who throw words like “socialism” around and the people who actively want for the stimulus to fail, etc.) who drag this forum down. There is a lot of potential for productive discussion here, and we get it in small dosages. Unfortunately, a couple of regulars here have to ruin it for everyone.

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
2:23 pm

Dave R,

Oh My God! That’s classic. You call me intellectually dishonest and then blame all of the woes of the economy on liberals.

Oh, and heaven forbid you take up space here on Jay’s blog! Wow! That, that, that was just one for the books.

Oh my God, that’s gonna take me a minute to get over that one.

Dusty

February 18th, 2009
2:24 pm

Dear TaxPayer,

Please let me know where all these great Georgia jobs are going to pop up (after GA accepts the $). I know several people who would love to be in the right place when the magic stimulus hits the streets. These folks have great educations so they might not want to scrape rust off of bridges or register voters for ACORN. Do you think anything else will be available at the GREAT STIMULUS MOMENT?

Paul

February 18th, 2009
2:25 pm

Brad Steal 1:02

[[you could easily argue that Obama was elected because Bush and republican endorsed policies were so bad and his administration was so unsuccessful.]]

Sure. As is so often true, Pres Obama wasn’t elected for one single reason (altho for many people, one issue is what decides their vote). The factors you cite were surely major elements for many.

DebbieDoRight 1:10

[[but the repuglican taliban was also elected to work for the people]]

Didn’t you get Pres Obama’s memo on ‘change’?

Taxpayer 1:14

Palin owes back taxes? Careful with that glass houses thing – Rahm Emanuel has his own version of Daschle’s accepting items of compensable value (living in DC rent free for five years) and not declaring it as income, let alone on his ethics forms. What is it with millionaires and freebies, anyway?

Bosch

The only one I saw on Youtube was 13 seconds. They need to fix it!

Oh, and if you’re gonna have that word and Larry the goose on a t-shirt, keep all the words on the front. Last thing you want is to have ‘goose’ written on the back of your shirt. Then again, maybe you do…

getalife

thanks for the good new. We needed that. BTW – Dripping Springs Vodka – new outta Texas – just got the top medal at some international competition. Distilled about a billion times. 23 bucks. Gotta find some.

Out for a while –

Sure the Reps were elected to work for the people; however, representatives work for the people of their district, senators work for the people of their state. The only one elected to represent us all is the president.

[[So far, who do you think is trying to uphold their oaths of office and pledges that they made to the people?]]

I don’t think Rep Boehner is any different from Spkr Pelosi in that regard.

Dave R

February 18th, 2009
2:26 pm

Ms Godzilla, /11 was a one-time attack (thus far) meant to bring this country down.

What we are experiencing today is a concerted effort to destroy this country and what made it great in the first place; the effort that has been going on since FDR was elected. A takeover of our independence, freedom and initiative by the Government. Plain and simple.

Paul

February 18th, 2009
2:28 pm

DebbieDoRight

the last three paragraphs of my last post were the concluding remarks addressed to you -

AJC/DNC Management

February 18th, 2009
2:29 pm

Aahhh, yes, another world leader scolds a dimplomat from hopeandchange.duh-

Pope tells Pelosi to reject abortion-”His Holiness took the opportunity to speak of the requirements of the natural moral law and the Church’s consistent teaching on the dignity of human life from conception to natural death which enjoins all Catholics, and especially legislators, jurists and those responsible for the common good of society, to work in cooperation with all men and women of good will in creating a just system of laws capable of protecting human life at all stages of its development,” the Vatican wrote

Let the character assassination of his Holiness begin.

ew

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
2:30 pm

Joe,

That’s true about unions – they’re an easy target for the wingnutty.

Commie,

I just got through reading all of Obama’s campaign speeches and nope, there’s nothing in there about the government taking over healthcare.
Joan,

Explain to me how we are marching into Socialism? Do you even know what that word means?

And if our economy now is the end product of capitalism – I say bring it on.

Dave R

February 18th, 2009
2:30 pm

Bosch, I’m only keeping the answer simple so that you can understand it.

Taxpayer

February 18th, 2009
2:32 pm

Mrs. Godzilla

February 18th, 2009
2:33 pm

Dave R

Again, No D’uh.

But the FDR thing is pretty funny.

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
2:34 pm

Paul,

For your return:

That Larry the Goose was funny, and no I don’t want Larry the Goose on the t-shirt – what made me laugh was that he called the whole plane crash thing a “clusterflock.”

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
2:37 pm

Dave R,

You just keep getting better. How ’bout this:

You don’t know what your freaking talking about.

It’s okay to admit that.

Taxpayer

February 18th, 2009
2:37 pm

Dave,

Don’t you know how to read. “New determination” is soft wording to help ease you into the reality that Palin owes BACK TAXES because she was wrong and she got corrected. It happens all the time with folks that claim certain expenses and deductions and then the IRS or other agency audits it and pulls out the little hand paddle and pops you one and says PAY YOUR BACK TAXES. They did not say, FROM THIS POINT FORWARD…

You’ve obviously never been audited and had an agency representative inform you of an over or under payment of BACK TAXES.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
2:41 pm

Mrs. Godzilla,
you wrote: Your effort is heroic indeed. I salute you!
Um, Joe is not heroic. He’s a partisan hack who likes to point fingers without getting his/her facts straight. He’s no more of a hero than I am a farmer. He’s a whiny little sissy man.

Taxpayer, Palin is not a tax evader. End of story.

Bosch, you’ve read all of Obama Husseins speeches? You are either the fastest reader in the world or you are full of crap like Joe the blogger.

Joe, cry me a river girly man. You pointed fingers calling me a liar and cruel person because I want the stimulus bill to fail. Grow up! Go back to pre-school and cry to your teacher. Baby.

DebbieDoRight

February 18th, 2009
2:42 pm

Paul:
[[but the repuglican taliban was also elected to work for the people]] {Didn’t you get Pres Obama’s memo on ‘change’?}

I think the repuglican taliban rewrote the speech from, “Change we can believe in” to “We’re NEVER gonna change!!”

{Sure the Reps were elected to work for the people; however, representatives work for the people of their district, senators work for the people of their state. The only one elected to represent us all is the president.}

Of course, as you know, the president can’t do it alone all by himself. Our republic is made up of a triad of powers and takes all 3 to make this country work effectively. But with a house divided, one part wanting to fix what’s broken to piece America back together, the other part only concerned about elections 2 years away; we won’t/can’t stand. The repuglican taliban had better be careful though, their political jihad just might blow up in their faces.

Paul

February 18th, 2009
2:44 pm

Bosch

“Freaking”?!!??!?

It’s “FRAKKING”

geez

57 hours 17 minutes

now I am out -

Mrs. Godzilla

February 18th, 2009
2:44 pm

Commie….short for comedian?

Joe

February 18th, 2009
2:47 pm

Commie, I pointed no fingers at you. I pointed fingers at YOUR ARGUMENT, which is full of holes. I have nothing against you as a person.

Please, point out the things that I have posted which are not factually true. This ought to be interesting.

PS: About your “girly man” statement? There is at least one person who has posted in Jay’s blog today who actually knows me. That person would disagree with your assessment; that person also happens to be a conservative with whom I have had some good conversations.

But you can continue to hurl your juvenile insults and avoid topics.

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
2:48 pm

Commie,

Of course I didn’t read all of Obama’s speeches, that was a joke. But I did a pretty thorough search and no where did I find where he has said that he plans for the government to take over the healthcare of this country.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
2:48 pm

Bosch,
do you know what redundant means?

Socialism: a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Or: (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

CommunistAJC

February 18th, 2009
2:51 pm

Mrs. Godzilla,
I love comedy. My favorite comedy is The Naked Gun. Oh, how I love that film.

Bosch,
so what does Pres Hussein mean when he says GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE?

Joe,
would that person be JAY BOOKMAN? Again, you stated that you didn’t want to talk to me anymore. So, take your own advice and don’t write anything else about me. Let’s move on!

Bosch

February 18th, 2009
2:52 pm

Oh Paul, my bad!!!

I used freaking instead of frakking because I’ve already offended some today with my choice of sentence enhancers.