Gov’t created only the illusion of food safety
If the allegations are correct, if Stewart Parnell really did repeatedly order his company to ship peanut products that he knew were tainted with deadly salmonella, current law may not be sufficient to deliver the punishment he deserves.
But at the very least, his family business, Peanut Corporation of America, is now bankrupt. The criminal and civil consequences of contributing to the deaths of at least nine people ensure that it will never produce another penny of profit for Parnell.
Unfortunately, however, the victims in this case go well beyond those sickened and killed by salmonella. Others in the peanut industry — growers, processors, wholesalers, retailers, many with sterling records of conscientious operation — have suffered extensive financial damage.
For those and others, the PCA case raises a larger question: Why has it taken death and a national scandal to identify an operation that was so clearly operating beyond the bounds of safety and even decency? This was not, after all, a one-time occurrence at the PCA plant. We have now learned of roughly a dozen instances of salmonella at the plant, none of which came to official attention.
Here in Georgia, numbers explain part of the failure. Agriculture Commissioner Tommy Irvin has come under harsh criticism, including calls for his resignation, because his inspectors failed to find and correct the problems at PCA’s plant in Blakely. As recently as October, critics point out, a state inspector toured the PCA facility and reported only minor health violations.
However, that inspector was one of just 60 employed by the state Department of Agriculture, and was able to spend just two or three hours at the plant. She and the 59 other state inspectors are responsible for checking an estimated 16,000 facilities statewide. A team that small cannot reasonably be expected to ensure a safe food supply; at best, it can create only the illusion of safety, an illusion that lasts right up until the moment somebody dies.
With Georgia’s peanut industry taking such a serious hit in this tragedy, state legislators and other officials are of course clamoring for reform and trying to fix blame. That’s perfectly natural and appropriate.
However, it’s worth asking: If Irvin had gone to the governor or Legislature a year ago and asked to increase the number of state inspectors and the authority they wield over peanut-processing plants, what kind of reception could he have expected?
A.) “Of course, Secretary Irvin. We want to protect not just consumer safety but the reputation of Georgia’s peanut-processing industry. If we can’t ensure our products are healthy, a lot of Georgians could lose their jobs and Georgia farms and businesses would suffer, so it’s a good investment.”
B.) “Ain’t no way. We were not elected to grow the size of government, we were elected to reduce it. Government should get off the backs of business in this state, not cripple it with additional rules and regulations.”
We all know the answer.
A similar dynamic is playing out in Washington, where members of Congress are chastising federal agencies for their own failure to identify PCA’s problems. The Food and Drug Administration has responded by pointing out that in 2001, it contracted out its inspection duties to the state of Georgia.
While true, that is not a defense. The FDA farmed out its responsibility to an agency that it knew or should have known was incapable of performing it adequately. It too was less interested in protecting human health than in creating the illusion of such protection.
And again, the same congressmen complaining about the failure of regulation share a large part of the blame. The FDA farmed out its duties because Congress was unwilling to fund enough federal inspectors. And by delegating the job to agencies in Georgia and other states, the FDA and Congress put the burden of enforcement on agencies that are more vulnerable politically and less likely to take a hard line.
That was not a flaw in the system. That was part of the reason it was considered a good idea.
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© 2009 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
124 comments Add your comment
AJC/DNC Management
February 16th, 2009
7:13 am
C) You already have enough people and money, get up off your lazy bureaucrat behind and start doing your job, government flunky loser.
Duh
Joey
February 16th, 2009
7:24 am
Irvin has been a poor excuse for an Agriculture Commissioner for long long time. How many times has the AJC called him to task? Endorsed an opponent?
Curious Observer
February 16th, 2009
7:26 am
I wish somebody would explain to me how adding food inspectors would improve food safety, when the FDA lacks the authority even to order a recall of a product. So suppose an FDA inspector finds lethal doses of cyanide in a food product. Under the current structure, the FDA lacks the authority to order the product’s recall. Instead, the producer or the distributor must voluntarily agree to recall the product. The alternative is a slow court action. Our problem is not the lack of numbers of inspectors, but rather a Wild West regulatory system.
Mrs. Godzilla
February 16th, 2009
7:40 am
Many of us have been aware of the problems at the FDA for years.
Risks of tainted food rise as inspections drop
Amid high-profile scares, FDA safety testing has fallen by half since 2003
Todays menu Includes: Spinach, Hamburger, Peanut Butter and for our canine pals Old Roy with melamine!
Rascal
February 16th, 2009
7:42 am
If government is chosen to do something, it always creates an illusion of providing a valuable service. Jay, I have asked you time and again to name one thing the government does well (better than the private sector could and does do it)and you have yet to write that column. Government created the illusion of providing oversight of the investment community, NOT, provides oversight of the food industry, NOT, oversight of airline safety, NOT, oversight of the medical community and procedures, NOT, education to our children, NOT. All government does is steal our resources, hire incompetents and provide jobs with no accountability, turn our economy into an over-and mismanaged mess and then blames everyone else. When was the last time you heard a government bureaucrat or a Democrat say that government has failed and should be replaced with the private sector. Awfully quiet Jay.
DB, Gwinnettian
February 16th, 2009
7:44 am
Our problem is not the lack of numbers of inspectors, but rather a Wild West regulatory system.
You sure the problem isn’t both?
Put another way–are there other states, or nations for that matter, where one inspector is supposed to effectively oversee >266 facilities?
With about 240 working days in a given year… how’s that supposed to work again?
DB, Gwinnettian
February 16th, 2009
7:45 am
All government does is steal our resources, hire incompetents and provide jobs with no accountability
But, enough about our Armed Services.
(jk.)
AJC/DNC Management
February 16th, 2009
7:46 am
Concerns fly over Georgia Power fee bill- As for the concept of advance payment for reactors, Oxendine said he could support the approach “if there were no other way to come up with the financing. My understanding is that it was not necessary.”-Urinal
I know that the AJC is using Republicans as human shields so that they can hide behind them and whine, but my question is this-
Why would a group of government loving libs, who have no issues whatsoever with uncontrolled federal spending of your tax dollars, whine and moan about a few dollars a month going to private company?
Do tell us, what’s the difference between a power bill and a tax bill?
Are they fretting over lost tax revenue?
Jon Smith
February 16th, 2009
7:48 am
The illusion of safety is the game of government. Unless you are a (guarded) politician, what you actually get is a set of laws, and a chance that they will investigate the crime after it happens. There is no personal right to protection.
In fact, the illusion of regulation (financial and other) is also part of their game. And don’t get me started on “taxpayer’s money.” You think it is your money? Try to spend it!
Taxpayer
February 16th, 2009
7:50 am
That would be 16000 facilities for 60 inspectors or about 267 facilities per inspector. Now, some back of the envelope idealizations: Assume first that an inspector works 49 weeks per year at 5 days per week. Also, assume that each facility visit requires a minimum of one day for the inspection and one day for the report, driving time, follow-up visits, phone calls, etc., for an average of 2 days per facility. So, each inspector has a total of about 245 days per year to do their job and they might ideally spend 2 days on each of 267 facilities that they are responsible for and that works out to mean that each facility can get at best about one visit per year and on top of that the visits are most likely pre-announced. So, you take a minimally trained inspector that is just trying to make a living on the 35 or 40k salary working in a preferentially laissez faire (aka, Republican) environment doing once a year walk throughs of plants that are not even required to share all of their information…It’s a recipe for disaster and now that people have died, it’s time to do the old song and dance with the finger pointing and looks of innocence. Then again, they are the party that Phil Gramm thrived in.
PT Carson
February 16th, 2009
7:51 am
Dear Mr. Bookman,
I think it’s wrong to blame the failure on the lack of inspectors working for the Georgia Agriculture Dept.
If it takes 3 hours to do one inspection, then each inspector should be able to get 2 inspections done per day.
If there are 220 work days per year and 60 inspectors this should yield about 26400 inspections per year.
Even if we would allow for more thorough inespections at less frequency, it seems that 60 productive inspectors could easily check on facilities once per 2 years.
So we don’t need more inspectors. This is a typical red herring first response. We failed because you didn’t pay us enough and because you didn’t care enough to do it ‘right’. This type of response from government just needs some back of the envelope validation to determine that it’s ridiculous and wrong. There are enough inspectors.
DB, Gwinnettian
February 16th, 2009
7:55 am
PT Carson @ 7.51, since you seem to know a great deal about food processing facility inspections, please answer my question posed @ 7.44, because I honestly don’t know.
“are there other states, or nations for that matter, where one inspector is supposed to effectively oversee >266 facilities?” More importantly, how’s that working out for them?
Taxpayer
February 16th, 2009
8:13 am
How many of you keep up with the restaurant inspection scores? Even the front-line folks that should know the basics in food preparation and that should be ensuring that proper procedures are followed don’t do it and they get inspected much more frequently and customers can even see a lot of what goes on first hand.
Inspectors, or a lack of, is not the only problem but it is an important link in the overall chain that is needed to protect everyone. We all should want safe food to eat and that takes commitment to something more substantial than “trust me” or “have faith” and that commitment needs to come from the top down (trickle down that works).
AJC/DNC Management
February 16th, 2009
8:15 am
Anybody who has ever been to a Post Office knows how much effort a government employee puts into their tax dollar funded job, almost none at all.
First of all, you do not have to go through each and every facility with a fine tooth comb, you can usually discern which places take care to avoid contamination by inspecting their records, reviewing their cleaning/ disinfection procedures and by the appearance of the place. Those that do not pass these standards would be candidates for a thorough top to bottom inspection.
Not to mention the fact that you can require the facility to conduct an independent investigation of their own facility, unless of course, they want the federal government crawling up their rear end.
But the first step in the process is finding within the massive, idiotic government bureaucracy an actual person that gives a F.
Good luck with that.
Dave R
February 16th, 2009
8:17 am
Rascal is right on point here.
When you rely on one entity who is virtually mandated to award their services to the lowest bidder, and then give them EVERY responsibility known to mankind, they can’t help but do everything badly. And its not the people trying to do their jobs that are heart of the problem; it is the mandated overreaching that cannot possibly be met by them.
I’d love to read Bookman’s ideas on what government does well that the private sector couldn’t do better. I suspect we’ll remain ignorant of Bookman’s thoughts (redundant, perhaps?) for a long time, Rascal
@@
February 16th, 2009
8:19 am
No need to grow government, jay, just shuffle the deck. How much money was set aside for ACORN in the stimulus bill? How much money goes to Planned Parenthood each year with the INTENTION to kill the unborn? They’re sitting on a huge reserve/profit.
Talk about goobers?
The federal government needs to prioritize the peanuts.
catlady
February 16th, 2009
8:19 am
PT, don’t forget lunch, driving time, and time to prepare the report.
RW-(the original)
February 16th, 2009
8:20 am
This column reminds me of an old cartoon called Fractured Fairy Tales. First we have the sad tale of how 60 inspectors couldn’t possibly oversee an “estimated” 16,000 sites, as if there were 16,000 wide scale food processing plants here, and the Jaybots dutifully chiming in about the need for yet more incompetent government employees.
Blaming a lack of government employees is no surprise in a liberal worldview, but you’ve got to love the hypothetical plot twist where we hold the elected Democrat agriculture chief harmless because he didn’t ask for more help from the elected Republican Governor that would have undoubtedly turned him down. Of course the Republican Governor, the first in Georgia in a hundred or so years, is near the end of his term limited eight years while the ag commish has held the job since 1969. The longest serving statewide official in the entire United States
Mrs. Godzilla
February 16th, 2009
8:27 am
PT CARSON:
So where does the 3 hour time frame come for inspections…..
I see Jay mentions “that inspector was one of just 60 employed by the state Department of Agriculture, and was able to spend just two or three hours at the plant.”
joe
February 16th, 2009
8:28 am
In China, the milk scandal netted the culprits death sentences. That would get the CEO’s attention, eh?
Taxpayer
February 16th, 2009
8:32 am
By the way, how did that guy that was trying to clean up Imperial Sugar’s mess ever end up. I mean, after the thorough grilling and reaming that Saxby subjected that poor guy to, you would think that he was the guilty party or at least that would be the impression that one might be left with after listening to Saxby attack this guy. Yes indeed, we need a strong commitment from the top down and it cannot be from people that have strong ties to the greedy and ignorant in private business. In matters such as these, the heads of departments such as the FDA, OSHA, EPD, etc., need to make that strong commitment and they need to be empowered to do so. Of course, that goes against a core Republican philosophy. What a quandary for Red States, eh.
e065702
February 16th, 2009
8:32 am
Rascal, are you serious?
There are MANY things the government does better than private business; educate ALL our children, deliver ALL our mail, provide insurance to ALL our citizens, Provide security (Police & Military) to ALL our citizens. Granted it is not our grade A service provider but it is a lot better than what the private sector offers in those areas, limited options only to those that can afford it.
I seem to remember that W. wanted to move all our Social Security into the Stock Market.
How do you think that would have worked out?
Do you drive on roads? Do you drink water? Do you flush your toilet?
The limitations on government oversight are ALWAYS where the Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats (mostly from the South by the way) have crippled the regulatory body at the behest of the private sector. I mean what kind of law makes it optional to recall poisoned peanut butter? Do you think consumer safety advocates had that penciled in to enhance oversight?
Gimme a break!
I think you are one of those that truly believes you earned it on your own and that the government only gets in your way.
If you like unfettered free enterprise so much go move to India. It has limited government regulation, and lots of rich people.
The downside is all those small businesses in densely populated areas where their children work fulltime, and live in squalid conditions, but I doubt that would bother you much.
DB, Gwinnettian
February 16th, 2009
8:33 am
RW (and others) instead of trying to distract by calling some of us “Jaybots,” why don’t you just answer the question I posed?
if 60 inspectors is sufficient for this workload, do you have examples of other states (or nations) where this is typical, to back up your assertion that it’s the quality of inspection work that’s being done and not the quantity?
PC
February 16th, 2009
8:38 am
Sadly, we are missing a major point. Why are inspectors needed at all if the people running the business cared about others and wanted to do the best job to protect themselves, their company, the industry, and their customers? I am not foolish and realize that inspectors are needed. We lost a viable food inspection system during the Reagan administration. He essentially fired many federal inspectors because the industries could do their own inspections. Businesses were complaining that the inspectors were finding too many violations. Many people I knew warned that years down the line, public health will suffer. It has.
Rube Vogel
February 16th, 2009
8:41 am
Another major question is if the inspector would have found anything if she had spent a week at the plant instead of three hours. Are the FDAs inspection methods up to snuff?
John
February 16th, 2009
8:45 am
Remember Mad Cow disease, the Gov’t response to finding mad cow disease was to cut the number of cows tested for the disease. Miraculously they stopped finding cows with the disease. Now all of a sudden beef is safe again.
mm
February 16th, 2009
8:49 am
If the private sector took over inspections, you would end up with no inspections. What you would have is inspectors shaking down each plant for an A or B grade. When profits are at stake, you can’t trust corporations.
RW-(the original)
February 16th, 2009
8:50 am
DB Jaybot,
No
Mrs. Godzilla
February 16th, 2009
8:53 am
Can anybody answer how long it should take to inspect a food processing plant?
Take the Fresh Express plant south of the city….it’s mid size.
The Sara Lee Plant east of Jackson MS …is really, really big.
How about Hormel in Tucker?
3 hours? I don’t think so.
That’s the “all the time they had” number, not the amount of time required to do the job right number.
Think it’s safe to say that one size does not fit all.
Blame the American worker…..typical conservative nonsense.
RW-(the original)
February 16th, 2009
8:54 am
By the way, DB, I’m also going on blind faith that Georgia has 60 inspectors with no staff assistance. My gut tells me that probably isn’t the case anymore than there being 16,000 full scale food processing plants here.
Taxpayer
February 16th, 2009
8:54 am
I cannot argue that, at least in some cases, government employees are simply not competent and trustworthy enough to perform their required tasks satisfactorily — some military personnel over in Iraq, for example. Of course, the same can be said of some of the private businesses over there that are presumably working for we the people. The bottom line is that no one holds a monopoly on ignorance, incompetence, greed, etc., and that is even more reason to have good oversight and regulations with lots of transparency. It certainly beats a “Do Nothing” philosophy.
Sensors
February 16th, 2009
8:58 am
Modern technology permits inspection of almost every process including the food we eat. The core problem is that without 100% inspection techniques and automatic sorting and disposal of defective goods in place the industry will live by the illusion that quality is in control. Human beings can not assimilate the overwhelming amount of information to make the real time pass or fail decisions. IF you live by the illusion that batch sampling is “good enough” then think again.
Yes it is possible and MUCH CHEAPER to install inspection systems than continue to live in fear of an outbreak related to tainted food hitting the food supply chain. IF modern computing systems can be used to monitor web site traffic, telephone conversations, profile terrorists and the likes, they can certainly be employed to inspect food for defects. Problem is, most industries are living in the past and refuse to invest into technology to protect themselves and their customers.
So, to conclude, rather than just deal with problems, we masquerade and bully those with good ideas and technology needed to solve problems while we continue to live under the illusion that food, health care and pharmaceuticals are safe.
Taxpayer
February 16th, 2009
8:58 am
Mrs. G,
It can take weeks for a team of inspectors to properly conduct a preliminary inspection of a facility assuming that the entire facility, its documentation and processes are fully evaluated. Afterward, routine inspections can be performed in much less time and with less frequency under ideal conditions.
mm
February 16th, 2009
9:00 am
Pitiful McCain came out of self exile yesterday to make a fool out of himself. Can’t the GOP figure out that only 30% of the population cares what they think? Only 3 weeks into the Obama admin and they are going insane. This is going to be fun to watch.
jahlrichs
February 16th, 2009
9:00 am
Stewart Parnell is a person who made a selfish decision with the realistic hope he wouldn’t get caught. When any of us commit a selfish act the consequence can be very minor to severe (death of innocent people). What catastrophe will it take for our nation of relatively intelligent and hard working people to understand that when you put yourself before others our nation is weakened? If we all did our best to practice this one law this would be such a greater nation of people.
Bosch
February 16th, 2009
9:02 am
I know we all here like to cite one example as being proof positive for backing up our assertions, and well…
I know this guy who worked as a safety inspector for a chicken processing plant for many years. He was basically just there for show – the company like to tout to the regulators that they had a safety guy on the payroll, but everytime he had something bad to say – they treated his warnings like he was a crazy man. I really don’t know how he worked in such a hostile environment for so many years – with antagonistic relationships with his employers, but he said once that he did it because it had to be done – his conscious couldn’t let him otherwise.
By the way, this guy is no fun to do any kind of construction project with – he’s always got a story for what happened to someone who didn’t follow the safety rules – usually involving dismemberment, mutilation, or gruesome, bloody, painful death. But otherwise he’s a great guy, surprisingly enough one of the most honest men I’ve ever known.
Oh, and as I mentioned Saturday – pass on the lemons in restuarants – you don’t want to know what’s on those suckers.
Food Manufacturer
February 16th, 2009
9:03 am
While there are no doubt problems with the government inspectors, you cannot regulate compliance. The manufacturer must take on the full responsibility for making safe food along with all of the other responsbilities. That means that the owner, the president, the general manager must put Food Safety above all in their plant. Things happen on a constant basis that no regulator will ever catch. IF the owner has set the right tone, the workers will (by in large) stop unsafe practices.
My major complaint with the regulators is their unwillingness or inability to tell other manufacturers what they are finding wrong in other facilities. It took me about 1 year to find out what went wrong at Castelberry. When I asked my FDA inspectors, they simply wouldn’t or couldn’t tell. Why not? We need to know as it may help us make our facilities safer. When I found it the detailed story (not the crap the press prints), I ran a bunch of tests on our systems, found they were safe but also saw some potential problems. It was helpful.
As for Parnell, you can vilify him. It’s easy. The reporters, the politicians sit back and craft their stories for their benefit. If you really ever find out, there are lessons here that would likely help everyone in the food business. They’ll be deep, they’ll be important.
Bosch
February 16th, 2009
9:04 am
mm @ 8:49 –
The hammer hath hitteth the nail on the headeth.
sobe
February 16th, 2009
9:08 am
Don’t listen to the Republicon bastards who got us into, yes, this mess too.
Mrs. Godzilla
February 16th, 2009
9:09 am
Taxpayers….
Yes, I saw that on the FDA website, however 3 hours for a follow up in a plant like Sara Lee does not make sense.
gttim
February 16th, 2009
9:09 am
B-b-b-b-but the Free Market will take care of everything! Letting the market control itself, stuff like this won’t happen!
Get serious. The reason inspections are not working is that corporations own the government and government weakens the inspection methods and powers at every opportunity. If an inspector had reported the peanut company for contamination, Sonny would have made the inspector take back the report and call the corporation and apologize.
Dave R
February 16th, 2009
9:10 am
e065702,
Boy, are YOU indoctrinated with the Kool-aid!
Private schools teach students far better than government schools, and if each taxpayer didn’t have 75% or more of their homeowners tax forcibly taken from them each year for schools, and at least one or two cents of SPLOST taxes forcibly taken from them each year for schools, and 10% of their Federal income tax forcibly taken from them each year, we could all afford to send our kids to all the private schools that would be established to handle all the people who would gladly and voluntarily send their kids to those private schools.
Post office? Don’t even go there. I don’t need mail delivery every weekday and Saturdays, yet the business that is responsible for delivering mail has to THINK about cutting out one day out of six? How about cutting out as many days as it takes to break even or make a profit? And I for one could do without bulk mail from solicitations. Maybe if that part of the private sector had to pony up the REAL cost of mailing, they’d think twice about sending out junk mail.
And if you are thinking about Social Security as “insuring ALL our citizens” You’re barking up the wrong tree there, as well. I suggest you research the Galveston County, TX PRIVATE retirement plan, including the update following the stock market downturn after 9/11. Bottom-line, these people who decided to OPT-OUT of a Federally-mandated retirement plan STILL get more retirement money per month than their Federally-mandated peers, have their life insurance taken care of, and can afford PRIVATE health insurance premiums – all WITHOUT a cent of government assistance. And that’s for low-income earners in their plan as well as the higher wage earners. And yeah, ALL their money is in the stock market.
Oh, and President Bush only wanted to move PART of our money into the market, not all of it.
And while the military is a Federally-mandated entity, it is populated by an all-volunteer force today, which speaks well of the free actions of individuals, not of mandated actions.
And have you seen the City of Atlanta’s water and sewer department lately? Billions in long overdue repairs needed, over-billing due to software glitches. Great job, there.
And yes, I (I don’t know about Rascal) HAVE earned everything on my own. And government DOES get in the way.
There are private sector solutions to everything, and if Government would just stay out of them, the private sector could do them better and cheaper. Health insurance is one area. Government MANDATES minimum coverages (usually state-to-state) such as obstetrics, pediatrics, psychological, etc. If my wife and I are incapable of having children, or have no need for mental health services, I should be able to pick from a menu those services I CHOOSE to be covered under. Yet I still have to buy a plan that is MANDATED and budgeted for something that I will NEVER use, because my EMPLOYER is mandated to offer those services. Do you think health care costs would be lower if people chose to take only basic wellness and catastrophic (i.e. cancer) coverage, instead of all the things MANDATED by Government?
Bosch
February 16th, 2009
9:11 am
Another important thing here too, is that a large majority of Americans do not give a rat’s ass (no pun intended) about what they eat.
Case in point: fast food and Twinkies. What really IS a Twinkie anyway?
Gawins!
February 16th, 2009
9:18 am
Rascal: You;re a rascal indeed! Private sector is the failure! They knew what was going on; allowed it! Now you want to blame government for a private sector failure!
Where does Tommy Irvin get all the money it takes to run for office? He gets it from very people he regulates! Simple answer is if Tommy Irvin regulates, he won’t get contributions, and won’t get elected. We asked for it and we got it!
Put the fox in charge of the hen house?
Private sector? Phooey
Sensors
February 16th, 2009
9:19 am
Folks,,,,
Meanwhile,,,,, back at the ranch,,, this is about food safety…. Why track in political DIRT on the rug here. Want to find a solution or just bitch and moan.
We can only change the future.
@@
February 16th, 2009
9:20 am
OFF TOPIC! but what the hey….
Vote Ends Term Limits, Chavez Declares Victory
In South Florida, Venezuelans who went to cast their ballot on the term limit referendum experienced problems. Many were surprised to be turned away and told they couldn’t vote because they were listed as deceased.
Tibero Faria, who was born and raised in Venezuela, was denied the right to vote as well.
“I come to vote and I couldn’t because according to the registry I am deceased; I am dead,” said Faria, worried that communism is already creeping into his homeland. He says allowing Chavez to stay in power without term limits will only hurt his country.
The dems may wanna get those “dead people” registered here in the U.S.
Ed
February 16th, 2009
9:22 am
That’s why government’s can’t and shouldn’t regulate. That’s why we should grow locally. That’s why we should have simple rules, like you sell a product you know can kill people you go to jail. We need simpler and meaner laws, and less regulation. Regulations only employ bureaucrats, the don’t ensure safety.
DB, Gwinnettian
February 16th, 2009
9:25 am
“DB Jaybot”
That’s actually kinda funny. But seriously RW, absent actual figures, why should we assume that the inspectors have fabulous support staffs who can take their telegraphed report info and turn it into usable data, cross-checked and tabulated against useful metrics?
I could just as easily argue that the only support these people get is the clerk over in Accounting cuts their travel expense checks…
Oh, and another problem with your case: Fractured Fairy Tales rocked! Part of Jay Ward’s fabulous Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle, of course.
Taxpayer
February 16th, 2009
9:27 am
Mrs. G,
I have not looked at the FDA site. I was just estimating, based on my own experience (not in the food industry) and education, what I thought it might take to conduct an initial inspection of a relatively large plant such as those owned by Wrigleys or Flowers.
JM817
February 16th, 2009
9:27 am
I did a little math. With 16,000 facilities and 60 regulators, each has 300 places to visit. Assuming our folks have two weeks of vacations and are allowed the normal Saturday and Sunday off, they have approximately 2000 hours available to complete the work. Since the facilities all over the state of Georgia it is highly likely that the investigators have to drive several hours per day to get to the job site. Let’s see how many of those places they actually visit.
Add to it the fact that, as one of your folks observed, the regulators lack sufficient authority even if they find problems, and you can see how things got messed up. Of course, we have several writers here who are sure that the private system would work better. Let’s think about that one. Two judges in Pennsylvania were recently jailed because they took bribes from the privately-owned juvenile prison system to provide lots of customers, over 2.5 times the number other judges “supplied.” For over 2 million, these judges were willing to find lots of children in need of custodial punishment. Do we really believe private conractors would be any less unwilling to find unhealthy food production sites to be just fine, if paid the right amount? The fact is that most of our “lower level” government employees do their jobs for the money they get paid and they don’t usually take bribes.
I am sick and tired of hearing about how the private sector can do it better. The private sector has been in charge of everything in this country for a very long time now, and look where we are. No one regulated and the foxes helped themselves to chickens, chickens, and more chickens. If the government is ever convinced to go to a voucher system, just wait and see how quickly the vouchers won’t be enough for poorer people to get their kids into good schools, but it sure will be nice for the upper income folks who will only need throw in the difference between their voucher and the school tuition to ensure that their children don’t have to hobnob with the “others.”
DB, Gwinnettian
February 16th, 2009
9:29 am
OFF TOPIC! but what the hey….
In other words, nobody bit the last time you tried to throw off topic folderol into the thread @ 8.19.
(Unless you really think your gratuitous refs to ACORN and Planned Parenthood had anything to do with what’s being discussed, in which case you might want to have that looked at.)
RW-(the original)
February 16th, 2009
9:31 am
DB,
You’re right about Fractured Fairy Tales. I was hoping the name would slip by without anybody actually remembering what it was.
These inspectors get paid to travel too????
Otto1923
February 16th, 2009
9:32 am
IRRADIATE EVERYTHING
at regional govt-run facilities. Nothing gets shipped without being sterilized.
Davo
February 16th, 2009
9:33 am
Typical Bookman/liberal reasoning…if something doesn’t work then more govt intervention is called upon. I guess that’s where all these mystery jobs Obama purports to create will come from.
BTW…great thinking at the AJC this Sunday; Kroger advertisements on the front page. Reminds me of the scene from ‘Patton’ when he realizes the war is over for the Germans when he sees them using carts to haul supplies…you guys have run out of ideas.
Dave R
February 16th, 2009
9:36 am
Ed, I LOVE IT !
Simpler, meaner laws and less regulation. Also establish a loser pays system for our civil courts to keep out the junk lawsuits, and then go after the pocketbooks of the people who do things wrong like our buddy at the Peanut Co.
Simple, direct, and effective. If you know you’re going to get hammered, you’ll self-regulated pretty darned quickly.
AJC/DNC Management
February 16th, 2009
9:41 am
Georgia’s food processing industry is diverse, employing 73,000 workers in 875 small, medium, and large companies across the state. In the last 20 years, the growth in Georgia’s food processing industry outpaced the national rate, both in employment and value of shipments. Last year, Georgia’s food processors shipped more than $16 billion of products and generated an annual payroll of $1.6 billion.
http://www.gatip.org/fpindustry.html
Chris
February 16th, 2009
9:42 am
It saddens me to see comments from people who deem themselves to be republicans who talk about “liberal” democrats run-away spending and belief in big government.
I was a Reagan era “Young Republican” but conservatism is a joke now. The outgoing “Republican” administration presided over the largest increase in governmental spending and power grabbing in direct violation of the constitution that has ever been seen and over what? We fought the combined might of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan without a Department of Homeland Security and without giving up our rights.
The judge at the Nuremburg trials condemned the Nazi doctors he was judging because he said that it was exactly at the time the enemy has its hand on a countries throat that they must respect the ideals the country was founded on.
For shame on us for letting the government grab so much power.
Oh and where were these “conservative republican” voices when the bank bailout went through… not a peep.
Walker
February 16th, 2009
9:42 am
I am a red-blooded, hardcore, full-spectrum dittohead conservative. But 60 inspectors for 16000 plants hardly makes mathematical sense. It becomes a greater problem if these “3-hour” inspections have to be announced. We have seen what one executive has done to get around bad testing, so could we not think that the plant would have the inspector “see” what they wanted him to see? As an individual citizen, I would want a plant visit to be unannounced, and last a full day, and hire just enough staff to allow for that. Can we not see that our country will continue to have problems until we find a RATIONAL middle ground compromise between government and private industry. All one way you’ll pay to much, and all the other way and it risks food and BTW financial safety.
@@
February 16th, 2009
9:43 am
DB:
Do tell….
my 8:19 was off-topic?
jay’s column is about limited resources which inhibit inspections.
My response was that there’s money being wasted. Rather than invest in killing the unborn, invest in saving the living.
Again….shuffle the deck, don’t build on government waste .
You don’t like my posts, don’t read ‘em. Not in my nature to regulate you do.
RW-(the original)
February 16th, 2009
9:45 am
Davo,
Interesting that you note the AJC front page ad for Kroger milk.
What I’d like to know is whether the AJC has inspected the plant that processes and packages Kroger milk since they’ve seen fit to devote 1/6 of their front page space to coercing me to go buy some?
Soothsayer
February 16th, 2009
9:46 am
Mrs. Godzilla or @@ or anyone:
Please tell me how to add links in this new format. Thanks
infojunkie
February 16th, 2009
9:47 am
1. AJC/DNC Management: yes, it’s C)
2. Who is the real criminal here? The gov’t who is expected to protect everyone from everything all the time, or those peanut processors who KNOWINGLY sent out tainted product again and again? Treat them like the Melamine Murderers in China, and maybe the current number of inspectors would be more than sufficient.
DB, Gwinnettian
February 16th, 2009
9:49 am
Nice try @@, ’specially your “Planned Parenthood Equals Killin’ Baybeez!” business–but I ain’t bitin’.
Later, all.
Georgette
February 16th, 2009
9:50 am
e065702, thank you for injecting a voice of reason into what is, with a few notable exceptions, a string of hackneyed right-wing anti-government tripe. Those who think that everything they earn was gained solely by the sweat of their own brow (with no reference to the infrastructure that under-girds their efforts) and that the taxes they pay are all just so much money flushed down the toilet (with no understanding that they themselves benefit from those taxes) are self-blinded fools. Thank you for opening them up to the wider view of what they receive for their taxes, and of all the useful things their taxes pay for. (And, please, don’t anybody tell me that you pay separately for your water and sewer….there are VERY few places in the country that pay the real cost of those services. Your payments for those are heavily subsidized and you are, effectively, receiving welfare on your water and sewer costs.)
I now live in a state that receives back 71 cents for every dollar we pay in Federal taxes, while Georgia receives 1.01 for each dollar spent (and you receive the least among your fellow Southern states!), so please do not whine to me about not getting value for your tax dollars.
PC@8:38 has an especially salient point…if businesses cared as much about customers as they do about dollars, then there would be almost no need for oversight by the government. We only have government inspections because people have died. How would you feel about paying for thorough inspections if it were your parents, or your little baby who died because one factory owner cared more about making a few extra dollars more than he did about making a safe product?
I have grown ashamed of the state I was born in, and of the South that my family helped settle over 300 years ago. I believe that even my dyed-in-the-wool Southern grandfather, who claimed that he did not know that “damned” and “Yankee” were separate words until he was 15, would be considering a move elsewhere after all that has happened in my (formerly beloved) South!
Taxpayer
February 16th, 2009
9:51 am
What if you sell a product that can kill but you do not know that it can kill because you did not learn enough about your product. In other words, other people already knew about the dangers involved with using something but you did not and so you sold it out of ignorance. I mean, that could easily happen, for example, with melamine and its use as a means to pass a test in some little company in China or even here in the US. There are many reasons for oversight, regulations, and transparency. It’s not purely a matter of protecting us from one greedy person. There are the greedy, the ignorant, the evil, combinations, etc.
Mrs. Godzilla
February 16th, 2009
9:54 am
Soothsayer
RW posted a link to one his blogs that did a good job of it….
Maybe he’d be kind enough to re-post that link for you.
RW-(the original)
February 16th, 2009
9:56 am
Bosch @ 9:11,
It’s a golden sponge cake with a creamy filling. They were also switched from banana filling to vanilla during the great banana shortage of WWII.
Here are some experiments you can run if you get bored.
Gawins!
February 16th, 2009
9:57 am
You can’t inspect safety into foods! The Manufacturers must built safety into their products. If a plant is unsafe management must be changed immediately!
But you will always have a thief like we have here. Same thing as China. No difference! The Private sector at work without regulation!
AJC/DNC Management
February 16th, 2009
9:59 am
Catfight!!
But one of Capitol Hill’s most senior and powerful Democrats, House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank of Massachusetts, fired back at the administration Sunday, saying rewriting the executive-compensation provision “is not an option.”
“Mr. Gibbs may not like it, but it is going to be enforced,” Mr. Frank said. “This is not, frankly, the Bush administration, where they’re going to issue a signing statement and refuse to enforce it. They will enforce it.”-Washington Times
“Now yous went and did it bwarry, pssst, rrroowwww.”
RW-(the original)
February 16th, 2009
10:00 am
Soothsayer,
Here’s the page Mrs. G was talking about.
I hope it helps and the link format shouldn’t change, but apparently Jay B & Company are still playing with the admin functions to allow/deny various formatting without ever telling us what is or isn’t allowed.
Trusslady
February 16th, 2009
10:01 am
I guess I need to remind a lot of posters here how conservatives brayed loudly about W’s MBA and Sonny’s Do List. There has been a concerted effort to “run government like a business” for the last eight years and you see how that has worked out. Bankrupting the nation and the state!
For all of you who complain about government workers, I think there should be a law mandating that all American’s work for their government for at least 4 years during their lifetime. It would be a big eye opener to those of you look from the outside and complain. Business, as we well know, doesn’t have to be accountable. The government does.
Bosch
February 16th, 2009
10:04 am
RW,
Are you sure you can really call it a cake? And is the filling really considered a cream? Those tests look pretty funny.
Seriously folks until we start demanding quality in the foods we eat, we ain’t gonna get it – by the government inspectors or the corporations who process the chemicals and shape them into food products.
Cheez Whiz? Really? Does anybody eat that stuff? What about pimento loaf? And please don’t get me started on hot dogs.
RW-(the original)
February 16th, 2009
10:06 am
Business, as we well know, doesn’t have to be accountable. The government does.
Talk about turning reality up on it’s head. Geez.
RW-(the original)
February 16th, 2009
10:09 am
Bosch,
You can’t have a really good Philly cheese steak without Cheez Whiz.
Jack Dumas
February 16th, 2009
10:10 am
Numbers of facilities = 16000
number of inspector = 60
number of working weeks 48 (52 – 2 weeks hollidays, – 10 statutory holidays)
number of working days/year: 240
number of working hours/year = 240*8 = 1920
number of facilities to inspect per inspectors = 16000/60 = 266.6
maximum possible number of hours spent with each facilities = 7.2 hr.
The fact that the inspector only spent two or three hours is not that surprising, because number above does not take into account things like paper work, transit time, and follow ups. With these numbers, an inspetor cannot really go back to a facililiy that has a problem otherwise a facility would have to get skipped! Oh yes, also according to those calculation, no inspectors can get sick, and if one of them quits their job, they have to be replaced on the same day, on the spot and no existing inspectors can train the new one.
People can make their own conclusion about the numbers above, but my feeling is that they cannot work. IMHO, the argument for not growing the size of government is not a smart one in this case and these numbers knowing puts people at risk. The government needs to be the right size for the job, period. You get what you pay for, and given these numbers, I would not blame the inspectors, I would blame the policy makers. If there had been enough resorces, then maybe one could blame the buraucraty, but trying to fix the problem without more resources would be a dead end in this case.
Good things this is not China, in China Stewart Parnell would have most likely gotten a life or death sentence for his actions (see what happend for the people responsible for the tainted milk scandal in China there: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/01/22/china.tainted.milk/)
Bosch
February 16th, 2009
10:11 am
Have you ever seen a chicken nugget (I think calling it chicken is stretching it a bit) from Burger King? They are shaped like stars. WTF? I don’t know many star-shaped chickens, but I’d certainly be impressed to see one.
Georgette
February 16th, 2009
10:11 am
Taxpayer@9:51: Agreed. My belief is that there will always be some need for this type of education and information, and one government agency (vs. dozens of disconnected industry groups) seems an efficient method for doing this.
I still hope for the day when government regulation will be unnecessary, because all manufacturers will care more about the quality and safety of their products than about their profits.
BTW, one very good way to keep yourself and your family safer and healthier is by following the guidelines that Michael Pollan lays out in his book “In Defense of Food”. I doubt that great-grandma would recognize any part of Twinkie!
Bosch
February 16th, 2009
10:13 am
RW,
Sure you can – you just make cheese sauce with butter, milk, flour and cheese, salt/pepper/garlic. Yum.
Bosch
February 16th, 2009
10:17 am
Georgette,
Here’s a good book too along the same lines as Pollan’s books which are great.
Animal, Vegetable, Miracle by Barbara Kingsolver
Georgette
February 16th, 2009
10:17 am
BTW, I am happy to see so many more-reasonable posts after the first 50 or so…maybe there’s still hope for my South!
Guess it’s mostly just cranky right-wingers and me who are online before breakfast
Chad Harris
February 16th, 2009
10:21 am
Excellent point by the wingnutter. Why can’t we have a 3rd term for Junya Bush. He never took any days off. He was the workinist most intelligent preseydunt ah ever done seen. Ah gonna see kin ah call Shirley Frankenstein or someone with real clout to see kin we get George W. back instead of poorly edycated Obamy.
Ah sure does love the BRW–the Bookman Right Wingnutties fo theah humah and theah insights. 3rd term for George W. Lessee how kin we do thet?
Ah do believe ah had a post on the current situation in USA USA that spoke to the medical danger of food you buy and consume.
There isn’t much in the way of civil remedies against PCA. Welcome to US Bankruptcy law. When you are going after compensation for injury of this type, it had better be against a company with deep pockets and the case had better be solid. Ah know that law, and ah know mah John Grissom. None of the plaintiffs is getting anything significant and now you have the come to Jeesoose of the Latter Day Tort for all them lawyuhs who is not so enthusiastic to rush into federal court or state court now that there is no payday. What are we going to do to take care of those attorneys? Why isn’t there a significant component of the stimulus package to compensate the poor peanut plaintiff’s bar. Hey maybe the yokels under the gold dome can pass some legislation on Peanut Butter and Jelly Day March 3–that’s the ticket!
Irvin’s inspector spent 3 hours in October. The lab tests for Salmonella date back to 2007. I’m going to assert it doesn’t take 3 hours to read the word “Salmonella” on the lab tests and come to a conclusion that the 160-170 derivative products need to be recalled STAT! People see 20-30 patients a day and assess large numbers of lab results in minutes.
Lab results should have been electronically transmitted to an office alerted to look for them at Georgia Agriculture, DOA, and FDA. And with this as a catalyst, this will be under a revamped FDA setup soon. I wouldn’t trust the hicks in Georgia under Tommy Irvin to do anything but put on a Wild Hog Dinner–anything further is too much responsibility. It’s frigging Georgia!
Jay’s conclusions are perfectly on point.
AJC/DNC Management
February 16th, 2009
10:23 am
Large Area of USA below Avg. Temps last 12 months…
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/img/climate/research/2009/jan/02_01_2009_DvTempRank_pg.gif
It must be “global warming’s” fault, duh.
Taxpayer
February 16th, 2009
10:28 am
I have been growing my own vegetables for years now that we have the room to do so. I pack our freezer full of blanched corn, peas, beans, and anything else that freezes well. I have neighbors that can food but I have not done more than simple items such as fig preserves and pickles. I feel safest eating these foods because I know how they were grown and what was used. For one thing, I don’t use any pesticides other than soap for aphids. I would rather pick off a live insect than worry about what the pesticide residue might do to me and my family. Unfortunately, I cannot do it all so I have to rely on others and try my best to make sure that those “others” have placed life/health before profit. Then again, who am I kidding…especially in a state as red as Georgia.
Jack Dumas
February 16th, 2009
10:36 am
forgot one thing in my previous post. No women who plan to be pregnant should be hired as inspectors since any maternity leave would reduce the numbers of facilities being inspected and we cannot afford that, new fathers should request tell their wifes deliver the babies on the weekends so they do not have to miss work for frivolous things like family.
SaveOurRepublic
February 16th, 2009
10:40 am
Not considering the amount of “questionable” ingredients within processed foods (MSG, excess dyes, etc.), the level of unsafe food & beverage is quite extensive. This scope includes fluoride in the tap water, to high levels of mercury (in foods, not to mention vaccines) to genetically engineered “frankenfoods” via Monsanto & other Globalist corporations. In my estimation, most of this falls under the Malthusian eugenics agenda of population control & reduction.
http://www.thefutureoffood.com
geek
February 16th, 2009
10:41 am
I spent years going in and out of manufacturing facilities including food processing plants as a part of my job. I worked in IT so my purpose wasn’t to inspect their facilities, just their computers. My experience taught me that I could look around the waiting area of a plant and make some predictions as to how efficiently their computers were managed and maintained. My predictions were usually correct. If an experienced food inspector can’t find filthy conditions in 2 – 3 hours then they must be blind or stupid or both.
RW-(the original)
February 16th, 2009
10:44 am
Since we’re having fun with fantasy numbers today let’s pretend there really are 16,000 full service food processing plants in Georgia. Now let’s pretend we had 16,000 government worker inspectors, one for every plant. Does anybody really believe the liberal position would be that there were too many? Frankly I’m 99.999% sure the argument would be that one person couldn’t possibly work a normal work week and watch over a plant that ran three shifts seven days a week.
Later y’all! I’d head to the forest, but the forest is closed for President’s Day so I think I’ll go get a convenience store sausage dog that came from one of 16,000 uninspected plants. Wish me luck! See ya upstairs for happy hour
Taxpayer
February 16th, 2009
10:55 am
Then again, there are those that have nothing but theatrics to offer.
sobe
February 16th, 2009
10:56 am
Peanuts are not the only poison coming out of Georgia. It’s rife with Republicons, you know.
Hillbilly Deluxe
February 16th, 2009
11:01 am
Shouldn’t there be some sort of manslaughter charge here?
I also feel sorry for people in other peanut businesses who are going to take a hit because of this situation. A bad apple really can spoil the whole barrel.
YeahRight
February 16th, 2009
11:13 am
Ok RW (the original), so the private sector has done a wonderful job of tending to this countries business as of late? You and others of your ilk kind of remind me of that guy that said, “You’re doin a hekuva job Brownie”. Get a clue moron.
Goober
February 16th, 2009
11:15 am
Here’s some more theatrics: government also creates the illusion of fire safety but it’s not important enough to keep the stations open.
Taxpayer
February 16th, 2009
11:20 am
And, if that peanut butter gets stuck in your throat, I know a quaint little place up in North Georgia where you can get some mighty fine well water to wash it down with. Maybe I should bottle some of it and take it down to the Gold Dome for those good old boys to partake of. Don’t worry. It’s safe. Trust me. Would you like to hear the latest news on this one. It just keeps on getting better.
bdatlanta@charter.net
February 16th, 2009
11:25 am
Tax cuts. You start cutting people’s taxes to get votes for the GOP and then you have to cut spending.
The FDA isn’t the only inspections branch that has been gutted the past 8 years. Look at the EPA, for example.
GOPers always beg for more tax cuts and then complain about the state of our roads after they hit a pot hole.
Pay your taxes and quit begging for tax cuts/loop holes, GOP.
Redneck Convert
February 16th, 2009
11:27 am
Well, seems to me we need to get Private Innerprize into the food safety business.
Here’s how we do it:
1. Give a bonus for every time a private food inspector finds germs or dirt in food during a visit.
2. To perteck the co. hiring the private inspectors, make it illegal for a food co. to sue in case a inspector makes up some germs or dirt in the food in order to get a bonus.
3. Give a visit bonus. Every time a private inspector visits a food co. he gets $300. You’ll have the inspectors making visits 24/7.
4. In case a food inspector co. gets in trouble, make the guvmint bail it out. That’s about all guvmint is good for anyway.
There, problem solved. Let me know if there’s anything I missed. Have a good day everybody.
Raisinet
February 16th, 2009
11:30 am
Typically, the fewer fire stations one has, the lower one’s taxes will be to pay for that service. Unfortunately, the flip side to that is that response times increase and the probability of increased loss of life and property increase as well. Insurance companies, of course, raise their home owner’s premiums to compensate. Of course, any Goober knows this.
bdatlanta
February 16th, 2009
11:30 am
Not only do you need enough inspectors, you also need supervisors of those inspectors to make sure the inspectors are actually visiting the sites, performing appropriately, etc.
bdatlanta
February 16th, 2009
11:33 am
Hillbilly,
I would imagine the President of the peanut plant will get hit with civil suits by some or all of the families who endured a death due to his actions/negligence.
He ruined the family business his dad started to save a few dollars? I bet his momma is smacking him silly.
getalife
February 16th, 2009
11:37 am
A classic broken government moment when the rep asked the CEO to eat the peanut products and the CEO took the fifth.
Government is still broken and just about every branch needs reform.
mm
February 16th, 2009
11:37 am
Wow, what a brilliant idea. Cut oversight, and pass meaner laws. Oh, wait. There’s already laws on the books? You don’t say. Well, there are laws against stealing, murdering, kidnapping, etc. They don’t prevent the crimes, they just punish after the fact (if the perp is caught). Love that republican logic. Just do nothing and hope for the best.