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	<title>Comments on: Economic freefall: The winners and losers</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/02/16/economic-freefall-the-winners-and-losers/</link>
	<description>An Atlanta blog with a little bit of opinion about a whole lot of things</description>
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		<title>By: BDAtlanta</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/02/16/economic-freefall-the-winners-and-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-2028</link>
		<dc:creator>BDAtlanta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=137#comment-2028</guid>
		<description>Wow, this is the conservative viewpoint in a nutshell. I can hear Hannity, Boortz etc in this. Very succinct.

Calling Out the Conservative Lies on Stimulus
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/02/05-1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, this is the conservative viewpoint in a nutshell. I can hear Hannity, Boortz etc in this. Very succinct.</p>
<p>Calling Out the Conservative Lies on Stimulus<br />
<a href="http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/02/05-1" rel="nofollow">http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/02/05-1</a></p>
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		<title>By: jaypat</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/02/16/economic-freefall-the-winners-and-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-1952</link>
		<dc:creator>jaypat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 02:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=137#comment-1952</guid>
		<description>I hope that Mr. Florida isn&#039;t a gambler;  he&#039;d lose almost every bet.

I plowed through almost half of the piece, but I had to stop when he was ventilating about how Smyrna, TN would benefit from the slowdown in the auto business.  Isn&#039;t Smyrna, TN the place that the Saturn car is built?  This is the same car line that GM announced today that they would be be selling or shutting down.

Before that, he was going on about as how Tom Friedman and some guy from the University of Chicago were so absolutely prescient about how the world really worked, being flat and all that. (Almost everything that came out of Friedman&#039;s mind has been wrong, or at least, twisted into some contorted allegory of reality.  His [Friedman&#039;s] advocacy of globalization has blown up in his face, just as the opponents said it would:  The benefits of globalization rained down on Wall Street, while the costs fell on places like Blue Ridge, GA, and thousands of other towns that lost jobs and manufacturing facilities.)

And how Dubai was going to be a center of the financial world.  It&#039;s actually shrinking faster than a grape in the desert sun.  There are thousands of cars left at the airport in Dubai as the former owners flee the city lest they be put in a debtors prison.

The awful  fact is that the entire financial system is broken.

&quot;The Atlantic,&quot;  &quot;The New Republic,&quot; &quot;Time,&quot;  &quot;Newsweek,&quot; &quot;US News and World Report,&quot;  &quot;Reader&#039;s Digest&quot;  are all magazines that have all run their course. Too much ideology, too little truth.

Color all of them gone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope that Mr. Florida isn&#8217;t a gambler;  he&#8217;d lose almost every bet.</p>
<p>I plowed through almost half of the piece, but I had to stop when he was ventilating about how Smyrna, TN would benefit from the slowdown in the auto business.  Isn&#8217;t Smyrna, TN the place that the Saturn car is built?  This is the same car line that GM announced today that they would be be selling or shutting down.</p>
<p>Before that, he was going on about as how Tom Friedman and some guy from the University of Chicago were so absolutely prescient about how the world really worked, being flat and all that. (Almost everything that came out of Friedman&#8217;s mind has been wrong, or at least, twisted into some contorted allegory of reality.  His [Friedman's] advocacy of globalization has blown up in his face, just as the opponents said it would:  The benefits of globalization rained down on Wall Street, while the costs fell on places like Blue Ridge, GA, and thousands of other towns that lost jobs and manufacturing facilities.)</p>
<p>And how Dubai was going to be a center of the financial world.  It&#8217;s actually shrinking faster than a grape in the desert sun.  There are thousands of cars left at the airport in Dubai as the former owners flee the city lest they be put in a debtors prison.</p>
<p>The awful  fact is that the entire financial system is broken.</p>
<p>&#8220;The Atlantic,&#8221;  &#8220;The New Republic,&#8221; &#8220;Time,&#8221;  &#8220;Newsweek,&#8221; &#8220;US News and World Report,&#8221;  &#8220;Reader&#8217;s Digest&#8221;  are all magazines that have all run their course. Too much ideology, too little truth.</p>
<p>Color all of them gone.</p>
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		<title>By: N.J,</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/02/16/economic-freefall-the-winners-and-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-1811</link>
		<dc:creator>N.J,</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=137#comment-1811</guid>
		<description>Where were all of the deficit hawks when George Bush was having the government borrow historically large amounts of money over the last eight years, while more than doubling the deficit. When George Bush entered office, there was a national deby of 5.7 trillion dollars.It was 10.6 trillion the day he left office.

When Clinton was president, the rate of government borrowing increased by one third of a percent per year. Compare this to Ronald Reagan, who annually increased the rate of borrowing by an average of 17 percent each year. The Clinton Administration borrowed 18 billion dollars in its last year. The Bush Administration STARTED by borrowing almost 140 billion in its first year, and was up to borrowing 500 billion by 2003, and it continued to borrow at this rate until the end of his presidency.

Going back to 1961, only two presidents have handed Congress a balanced budget. One was bill Clinton. The last one before Clinton was Lyndon Johnson. And he did that during the Vietnam War.

If one looks back at every presidency since the end of World War II, the record shows that Republicans for every dollar of debt created by Democratic presidencies, Republicans have created two dollars and fifty two cents in government debt. The neo-conservatives have the worse rate. Reagan came into office with a national debt less than a trillion dollars. By the time he left office, he had increased it to 2.6 trillion. His sucessor, did a little better, but this was simply because he continued to increase borrowing by about 13 percent per year. But he did not cut taxes, so the rate of the increase of debt was slower that Reagan.  Clinton reduced virtually eliminated government borrowing, so the debt levels stayed flat during his presidency and he started on paying down the debt.

His sucessor and last president, simply copied Reagans economic ideas, and the results were the same. The debt doubled.

Historically republicans have done much worse with &quot;borrow and spend&quot; economic ideas, than democrats have done with &quot;tax and spend&quot; ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where were all of the deficit hawks when George Bush was having the government borrow historically large amounts of money over the last eight years, while more than doubling the deficit. When George Bush entered office, there was a national deby of 5.7 trillion dollars.It was 10.6 trillion the day he left office.</p>
<p>When Clinton was president, the rate of government borrowing increased by one third of a percent per year. Compare this to Ronald Reagan, who annually increased the rate of borrowing by an average of 17 percent each year. The Clinton Administration borrowed 18 billion dollars in its last year. The Bush Administration STARTED by borrowing almost 140 billion in its first year, and was up to borrowing 500 billion by 2003, and it continued to borrow at this rate until the end of his presidency.</p>
<p>Going back to 1961, only two presidents have handed Congress a balanced budget. One was bill Clinton. The last one before Clinton was Lyndon Johnson. And he did that during the Vietnam War.</p>
<p>If one looks back at every presidency since the end of World War II, the record shows that Republicans for every dollar of debt created by Democratic presidencies, Republicans have created two dollars and fifty two cents in government debt. The neo-conservatives have the worse rate. Reagan came into office with a national debt less than a trillion dollars. By the time he left office, he had increased it to 2.6 trillion. His sucessor, did a little better, but this was simply because he continued to increase borrowing by about 13 percent per year. But he did not cut taxes, so the rate of the increase of debt was slower that Reagan.  Clinton reduced virtually eliminated government borrowing, so the debt levels stayed flat during his presidency and he started on paying down the debt.</p>
<p>His sucessor and last president, simply copied Reagans economic ideas, and the results were the same. The debt doubled.</p>
<p>Historically republicans have done much worse with &#8220;borrow and spend&#8221; economic ideas, than democrats have done with &#8220;tax and spend&#8221; ones.</p>
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		<title>By: RealityKing</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/02/16/economic-freefall-the-winners-and-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-1695</link>
		<dc:creator>RealityKing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=137#comment-1695</guid>
		<description>Obviously America has chosen a loser.

&quot;$787 billion economic recovery package becomes law with the simple stroke of Obama&#039;s pen.&quot;

DOW 7,587.25
-263.16 -3.35%</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously America has chosen a loser.</p>
<p>&#8220;$787 billion economic recovery package becomes law with the simple stroke of Obama&#8217;s pen.&#8221;</p>
<p>DOW 7,587.25<br />
-263.16 -3.35%</p>
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		<title>By: Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/02/16/economic-freefall-the-winners-and-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-1600</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=137#comment-1600</guid>
		<description>Greed is the reason why this economy is in this shape. This is a trickle down affect to the economy.  For the past 20 years, I watched the value of homes triple. People were buying home that they could not afford and didn&#039;t know which type of loans to get. A lot of people even made the mistake of getting a second mortgage put on their home. For many this caused a great number of people to lose their homes.  Jobs were closing here and being shifted to other countries. Big businesses thought it would save money to close down businesses in the USA. But the reality of it that it affects everybody.  The price of gas kept going higher and higher to a point that people couldn&#039;t afford to put gas those hugh and small vehicles. People stop buying SUV,trucks and start buying gas savers.  The higher price of gas even cost higher grocery prices in the supermarkets. The price for the parcel services and US postal even got higher.   No matter what some people may think, I truly believed that President Obham&#039;s stimulus plan will work for this unstable economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greed is the reason why this economy is in this shape. This is a trickle down affect to the economy.  For the past 20 years, I watched the value of homes triple. People were buying home that they could not afford and didn&#8217;t know which type of loans to get. A lot of people even made the mistake of getting a second mortgage put on their home. For many this caused a great number of people to lose their homes.  Jobs were closing here and being shifted to other countries. Big businesses thought it would save money to close down businesses in the USA. But the reality of it that it affects everybody.  The price of gas kept going higher and higher to a point that people couldn&#8217;t afford to put gas those hugh and small vehicles. People stop buying SUV,trucks and start buying gas savers.  The higher price of gas even cost higher grocery prices in the supermarkets. The price for the parcel services and US postal even got higher.   No matter what some people may think, I truly believed that President Obham&#8217;s stimulus plan will work for this unstable economy.</p>
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		<title>By: RealityKing</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/02/16/economic-freefall-the-winners-and-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-1547</link>
		<dc:creator>RealityKing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=137#comment-1547</guid>
		<description>No worries! At least in the short term.. 

You see, next year there&#039;s going to be a huge rebound as our drunken band of congressional free spenders unloads 2T from our children&#039;s future. And when that runs out and the economy once again sputters due to the even larger sized government, another 3T they will spend from our grandchildren&#039;s livelihoods. And yes, once again, boom, the year after that in a dismal attempt to get the entire drunken band of narcistic liberals re-elected. Spend, spend, spend, nope no worries for us!! 

Of course, the trick is going to be to save enough in your retirement fund to last you, and your descendants, until 2050. After the impending great Obama depression ends. I&#039;m almost ready.., are you??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No worries! At least in the short term.. </p>
<p>You see, next year there&#8217;s going to be a huge rebound as our drunken band of congressional free spenders unloads 2T from our children&#8217;s future. And when that runs out and the economy once again sputters due to the even larger sized government, another 3T they will spend from our grandchildren&#8217;s livelihoods. And yes, once again, boom, the year after that in a dismal attempt to get the entire drunken band of narcistic liberals re-elected. Spend, spend, spend, nope no worries for us!! </p>
<p>Of course, the trick is going to be to save enough in your retirement fund to last you, and your descendants, until 2050. After the impending great Obama depression ends. I&#8217;m almost ready.., are you??</p>
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		<title>By: TnGelding</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/02/16/economic-freefall-the-winners-and-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-1455</link>
		<dc:creator>TnGelding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 04:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=137#comment-1455</guid>
		<description>Bush, and Obama, also should have called for a voluntary moratorium on foreclosures and layoffs right after the election, if not before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush, and Obama, also should have called for a voluntary moratorium on foreclosures and layoffs right after the election, if not before.</p>
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		<title>By: TnGelding</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/02/16/economic-freefall-the-winners-and-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-1399</link>
		<dc:creator>TnGelding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=137#comment-1399</guid>
		<description>I had been having similar thoughts. Let&#039;s hope we are wrong. Why all the emphasis on exports? We&#039;ve proven we can consume everything we produce and then some, and you save the tremendous shipping costs. And help save the Earth as well. Bush should have acted when oil prices started rising due to out of control speculation. He also should have worked with Congress on another stimulus package last fall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had been having similar thoughts. Let&#8217;s hope we are wrong. Why all the emphasis on exports? We&#8217;ve proven we can consume everything we produce and then some, and you save the tremendous shipping costs. And help save the Earth as well. Bush should have acted when oil prices started rising due to out of control speculation. He also should have worked with Congress on another stimulus package last fall.</p>
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		<title>By: Taxpayer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/02/16/economic-freefall-the-winners-and-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-1356</link>
		<dc:creator>Taxpayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=137#comment-1356</guid>
		<description>Well, that was quite an article, Jay.  My take on it was that our new homes should take the shape of sailboats and coach class with reclining seats.  I suspect that another variable, that was not factored into this article, that will continue to rear its ugly head is weather patterns.  If the southeast is to see an increase in the intensity of hurricanes interspersed with longer periods of drought, that may ultimately take its toll on the residents.  Also, tornadic activity combined with more floods could takes its toll on some areas of the midwest.  Time will tell -- it always does.  As for feeding all of us in the future within our new confines away from the soil, &lt;i&gt;Soylent Green&lt;/i&gt; may be closer to reality than any of us realize.  I just hope it&#039;s well cooked and properly spiced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, that was quite an article, Jay.  My take on it was that our new homes should take the shape of sailboats and coach class with reclining seats.  I suspect that another variable, that was not factored into this article, that will continue to rear its ugly head is weather patterns.  If the southeast is to see an increase in the intensity of hurricanes interspersed with longer periods of drought, that may ultimately take its toll on the residents.  Also, tornadic activity combined with more floods could takes its toll on some areas of the midwest.  Time will tell &#8212; it always does.  As for feeding all of us in the future within our new confines away from the soil, <i>Soylent Green</i> may be closer to reality than any of us realize.  I just hope it&#8217;s well cooked and properly spiced.</p>
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		<title>By: Soothsayer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/02/16/economic-freefall-the-winners-and-losers/comment-page-1/#comment-1352</link>
		<dc:creator>Soothsayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=137#comment-1352</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://seekingalpha.com/article/114127-524-000-jobs-lost-in-december-the-economy-is-in-a-depression&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A depression is not self-correcting. Roosevelt Administration stimulus packages—huge deficit spending—eased the pain but failed to end the Great Depression. Roosevelt’s policies did not put the U.S. economy on a sustainable growth path, because New Deal policies worsened structural problems that pulled the economy down in the first place. For example, the New Deal proliferated monopoly pricing, extended the life of undersized farms, raised structural savings rates, and created a system of home lending too dependent on federally sponsored banks.

The challenges facing President-elect Barack Obama could not be clearer. The current economic slowdown has two structural causes—bad management practices at the large money center banks and the huge foreign trade deficit. These problems are not self-correcting.

The economy will not recover without fundamental changes in banking and trade policy. A large stimulus package, though necessary, will only give the economy a temporary lift but then unemployment will rise again and continue at unacceptable levels indefinitely without successively larger stimulus packages and huge federal budget deficits. The economy is a depression, not a recession.&lt;/a&gt;

If you don&#039;t read any other article, read this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://seekingalpha.com/article/114127-524-000-jobs-lost-in-december-the-economy-is-in-a-depression" rel="nofollow">A depression is not self-correcting. Roosevelt Administration stimulus packages—huge deficit spending—eased the pain but failed to end the Great Depression. Roosevelt’s policies did not put the U.S. economy on a sustainable growth path, because New Deal policies worsened structural problems that pulled the economy down in the first place. For example, the New Deal proliferated monopoly pricing, extended the life of undersized farms, raised structural savings rates, and created a system of home lending too dependent on federally sponsored banks.</p>
<p>The challenges facing President-elect Barack Obama could not be clearer. The current economic slowdown has two structural causes—bad management practices at the large money center banks and the huge foreign trade deficit. These problems are not self-correcting.</p>
<p>The economy will not recover without fundamental changes in banking and trade policy. A large stimulus package, though necessary, will only give the economy a temporary lift but then unemployment will rise again and continue at unacceptable levels indefinitely without successively larger stimulus packages and huge federal budget deficits. The economy is a depression, not a recession.</a></p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t read any other article, read this one.</p>
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