So simple, even a caveman could do it?
A team of scientists in Germany is well on the way to reconstructing the genome of the Neanderthals, which went extinct some 30,000 years ago if you accept Darwin and science and which never existed in the first place if you don’t.
According to the New York Times, that raises a rather startling possibility:
“Possessing the Neanderthal genome raises the possibility of bringing Neanderthals back to life. Dr. George Church, a leading genome researcher at the Harvard Medical School, said Thursday that a Neanderthal could be brought to life with present technology for about $30 million….
(Church) said he would start with the human genome, which is highly similar to that of Neanderthals, and change the few DNA units required to convert it into the Neanderthal version. This could be done, he said, by splitting the human genome into 30,000 chunks about 100,000 DNA units in length. Each chunk would be inserted into bacteria and converted to the Neanderthal equivalent by changing the few DNA units in which the two species differ. The changed lengths of DNA would then be reassembled into a full Neanderthal genome. To avoid ethical problems, this genome would be inserted not into a human cell but into a chimpanzee cell.
The chimp cell would be reprogrammed to embryonic state and used to generate, in a chimpanzee’s womb, a mutant chimp embryo that was a Neanderthal in many or most of its features….
Dr. Church said he had no plans for such an experiment, but if someone were eager to supply the financing, “We might go along with it.” The treatment of Neanderthals would raise many problems. “Are you going to put them in Harvard or in a zoo?” asked Dr. Klein of Stanford.”
So class — your thoughts? Would N. E. Anderthal possess a soul? Would he or she be eligible to vote? Because really, for a mere $30 million somebody might really try this.
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187 comments Add your comment
Greg Mendel
February 13th, 2009
11:33 am
$30 million to produce another wingnut?
Mrs. Godzilla
February 13th, 2009
11:45 am
ah, bioethics….or lack thereof.
i don’t think they should attempt this. it feels wrong to me.
AJC/DNC Management
February 13th, 2009
11:53 am
As Darwin himself realized, the fossil stratum corresponding to the beginning of the Cambrian geological period was potentially inimical to his hypothesis. In a blink of geological time, now dated by various means to 542 million years ago, all of the advanced body types of “modern” multicellular organisms suddenly and simultaneously appear. The event is now known as the “Cambrian Explosion,” and Darwin hoped it would be explained away by the later discovery of gradual evolutionary developments through the eons before. Instead, the shock of the transition has been enhanced by all subsequent study.
Likewise, Darwin trusted that the gradual development of such “irreducibly complex” organs as the eye, ear, and heart would be explained in due course (i.e. these organs can’t work at all unless and until all their many parts are present and functioning in perfect harmony). Instead, advances in genetics, molecular biology, and biochemistry over the last half-century have revealed a vast world of irreducible complexities within the single living cell, by comparison to which the engineering of an eye would be child’s play.-David Warren
Anybody can draw a picture.
Where’s the proof?
tcoach
February 13th, 2009
12:00 pm
What would a Neanderthal evolve into now with current conditions and a certain need to evolve in what has to be a more evolved world than the one that allowed them to go extinct or slowly transform into humans?
So I think this is more about the abuses and trauma bringing this species about without any hope or promise of a “normal” life.
Answers to your class questions.
1. Yes it would have a soul, it is my opinion that every living organism has a soul to some degree.
2. It could vote only if you allow apes, or any other primate born in America to vote. The scientist are changing the DNA to make the organism non-human. Last time I checked I still cannot register my dog to vote, even though he has to be more informed than some voters.
Sorry to disappoint you Bookman I know how you were hoping to turn this into a political discussion about abortion and voter rights but we are talking about 2 different species. Guess you did not think there were any non-far left liberals able minded enough to see your trap.
Quite predictable you have became lately sir, quite predictable.
sane jane
February 13th, 2009
12:02 pm
How does using a chimpanzee (instead of a human) for gestation help “avoid ethical problems”?
If we’re re-animating the deceased/extinct, hasn’t that ship already sailed?
Hi Mrs. G!
Cobb County student
February 13th, 2009
12:03 pm
As creationism has taught us will here in Cobb County, only God could make this monkey-man of which you speak. Palin 2010!!!!
Mort Merkel
February 13th, 2009
12:04 pm
Arthur Blank could use a few of them on defense.
Mrs. Godzilla
February 13th, 2009
12:04 pm
Hey there back at ya’ sane jane….
tcoach
February 13th, 2009
12:05 pm
I stand corrected,
Someone found a way to make it political.
sane jane
February 13th, 2009
12:07 pm
PS, the question of “will it have a soul” is idiotic, unless you were being facetious. How would you measure/validate?
A more sincere inquiry might be, “will it have consciousness?” or “will it possess a high order of communications skills?”
Mort Merkel
February 13th, 2009
12:09 pm
So, these guys assume Neanderthal would be much less intelligent than humans?
One Voice
February 13th, 2009
12:13 pm
We already have enough Neanderthals running around- Andy (AJC Management), RW, and Communist AJC to name a few. (And you can’t forget the chimp, their former leader, but he’s a step below a Neanderthal.) No, I say let natural selection take them all. Nature has a way of eliminating the less intellectually inclined of our species over time. Republicans are already an endangered species and will be all but eliminated after the next election because of their continuing disdain for the populace.
Midori
February 13th, 2009
12:16 pm
Looks like someone I dated before – before I swore off Republicans.
Bosch
February 13th, 2009
12:19 pm
No, no, no, no no. This should not be done. Why would anybody even consider this? This is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong wrong.
For Christ’s sake, didn’t any of these scientist watch Jurassic Park?
AJC/DNC Management
February 13th, 2009
12:19 pm
Painting a human face on an ape skull that you found does not a “neanderthal” make, morons.
How about some proof, hmmmm?
Question for Jay
February 13th, 2009
12:21 pm
Jay,
This blog would be more vibrant and overall better if you would limit the cut-n-paste pirates who are attept to divert the direction of the blog and steal the impact of your columns. Let them get their own column.
How about limiting the length of the habitual cut-n-paste blowhards with no ideas of their own?
Mr. Snarky
February 13th, 2009
12:22 pm
Sounds like the premise for a bad movie to me. Not sure about the soul thing…if he had rhythm, maybe…
If they paid taxes I guess they could vote. Wasn’t there a Star Trek episode that addressed these questions?
DB, Gwinnettian
February 13th, 2009
12:23 pm
Oh man. This is a tough one. Practically speaking since this is a ways down the road we can hope we won’t have to consider it anytime soon (or that the occurrences of such newly hatched hominids would be so rare as to not be anything more than a curiosity).
Look, I eat meat and wear leather. Unlike some who do, I am somewhat conflicted over it. I think such moral queasiness will increase among us humans over time; I don’t think, I know that at some point we humans will recognize that other species think and feel and we will find it increasingly difficult to take their lives and to exploit these creatures for our own benefit.
If such a time coincides with development of cloning technology and there are no legal obstructions to creating such hominids, then sure. Why not? It would be wrong not to see what we could learn from our ancestors.
Or, put shorter: What Mort said, @ 12.09.
gttim
February 13th, 2009
12:26 pm
What would a Neanderthal evolve into now with current conditions and a certain need to evolve…..
Actually according to the Red Queen theory of evolution, it would not evolve, it would die off, again. As organisms evolve, so do those around them, prey and predators. As the gazelle evolves to get faster, so does the cheetah. If you brought back an older “model” of the gazelle, it would be very easy prey for the “newer model” cheetah. Nothing stands still. Recreating a being that has already died out because it could not compete, would likely end with the being being at a worse advantage before it became extinct. Also, evolution takes course over hundreds of generations. Since the Neanderthals have a similar generational lifespan as we do, we would not live to see it evolve. It would probably just be a creature in a cage.
Bosch
February 13th, 2009
12:26 pm
sane jane,
You brought up a good point about communication. I believe that all animals have high levels of communication that scientists are really just beginning to understand.
I think that has enormous implications for lots of things like religion and morals.
I’ve never been comfortable with fooling around with Mother Nature – she’ll kick your ass.
Midori
February 13th, 2009
12:27 pm
DB, Mort,
Exhibit A @ 11:53
getalife
February 13th, 2009
12:28 pm
They never died just moved to the right.
TnGelding
February 13th, 2009
12:29 pm
Isn’t funding in the stimulus bill? Let’s hope wiser heads prevail and these types of experiments never happen.
DB, Gwinnettian
February 13th, 2009
12:30 pm
Midori, couldn’t we just let the sad river-in-Egypt thingie @ 11.53 play in its own little world?
Bosch
February 13th, 2009
12:30 pm
DB,
Except cows. They are dumb and put here for us to eat.
Soothsayer
February 13th, 2009
12:31 pm
I would refer any questions regarding Neanderthals to Terry Bradshaw/
Pat
February 13th, 2009
12:32 pm
No need to bring Neanderthals back – they’re still with us: the far right Dixie wing of the GOP. Saw ‘em on CNN this morning, waving their clubs and grunting about the stimulus. But if you want a “real” answer: seriously, do they think inserting the genome in a chimp instead of a human would “solve the ethical problems?” Methinks perhaps not.
Bosch
February 13th, 2009
12:33 pm
Look! I made a smily face, and I didn’t mean to. I wonder…………
GodHatesTrash
February 13th, 2009
12:38 pm
The picture reminds me of a young Zell Miller…
PinkoNeoConLibertarian
February 13th, 2009
12:46 pm
Perhaps it’s just me. Did anyone else notice the irony of the researcher’s name? LOL.
I’m sorry, what was the question again?
Chad Harris
February 13th, 2009
12:46 pm
Rethug Base has already recapitulated the Neanderthal genome.
Midori
February 13th, 2009
12:47 pm
LOL, Bosch – your’e out of control!!
Midori
February 13th, 2009
12:49 pm
let’s try a couple more:
}(
Midori
February 13th, 2009
12:50 pm
first one didn’t make it
jon
February 13th, 2009
12:55 pm
It would be the Democrats clamoring to give these new constituents the “right to vote”.
AJC/DNC Management
February 13th, 2009
12:58 pm
DB, Gwinnettian February 13th, 2009 12:23 pm Look, I eat meat and wear leather. Unlike some who do, I am somewhat conflicted over it. I think such moral queasiness will increase among us humans over time; I don’t think, I know that at some point we humans will recognize that other species think and feel and we will find it increasingly difficult to take their lives and to exploit these creatures for our own benefit.
Aahhh, yes, the immoral turpitude of the dimwit left manifests itself in the “winners.”
The very basic tenet of the nonsense called “evolution” is “survival of the fittest,” which, for you too dense to understand, means that the stronger kill the weaker for sustenance and to find shelter from the remains of their carcasses.
DeadBeat: Are you saying this is wrong? That our very “Darwinian” nature of being cruel and ruthless is an abomination?
Perhaps you could quell your idiotic guilty conscience by realizing that without a Creator nothing could exist, gasp, gasp, kinda easy too understand, isn’t it?
And imagine that, the Creator also provided us with all of the necessities to sustain our existence, why, almost as though it was planned that way.
I shouldn’t be so mean, I do agree with some of your left wing bozo ideas, that being that some of us really were born of the pond scum.
Luckily, I ain’t one of them.
Bosch
February 13th, 2009
12:59 pm
Midori –
You winked!! How cute. Let me try:
Speaking of Neanderthals, has this ever happened to you? Let’s say, hypothetically of course, that you make a sandwich and you put cheese on your sandwich and it’s the kind of cheese with white paper dividers – and you eat almost all your sandwich and realize that the white paper dividers are still on the cheese –
That ever happened to you? I’m just wondering for no particular reason of course.
That Neanderthal in the picture above is contemplating how he will destroy the human species. Neanderthals have opposible thumbs – it’s too much competition between us and them. AND if you people watched Battlestar Galactica, you’d know that could happen when other species start to not like you.
Taxpayer
February 13th, 2009
12:59 pm
I come back from lunch to find that you’ve gone ape on us, Jay. Finally, Planet of the Apes could become a reality. All we need to get the ball rolling is to have a disease wipe out our dogs and cats and other little pets. Before you know it, Charlton Heston will be traveling through time only to find the ultimate in unintended consequences. Better encode some sort of fail-safe mechanism — some sort of disease that they will never be immune to because that neanderthal dude looks like a war-monger to me. Oh wait, I think they did that plot in War of the Worlds.
Bosch
February 13th, 2009
1:01 pm
Midori,
@12:49
That first one looks like a sideways mean dude with big eyebrows.
DB, Gwinnettian
February 13th, 2009
1:02 pm
Jon @ 12.55, at the outset I’ll say I didn’t find the wisecracks about “wingnuts” particularly funny.
But, if such future-world hominid constituents led productive lives and contributed to the commons, of course they should have the right to vote and run for office.
To use your rather harsh political framing, I could say it would be modern day Republicans clamoring to keep from from voting, but still counting them as 3/5 of a person for congressional districting purposes. Like that one better?
Taxpayer
February 13th, 2009
1:03 pm
Oops, I think I forgot to end the italics after the Apes. Oh well
Jay
February 13th, 2009
1:04 pm
I’m always fascinated at the way Management just oozes that Christian love and compassion…..
Bosch
February 13th, 2009
1:05 pm
Let’s see if this works:
CommunistAJC
February 13th, 2009
1:06 pm
Chad Harris,
you should know all about that, troglodyte. It’s right up your alley.
As for the real topic, why not bring them back to life? I mean, they did invent the wheel and fire. Maybe they could invent something else useful. And, considering a lot of people on this blog probably didn’t finish college, I’d say it’s safe to say that Neanderthal man would wipe the floor with you. Bosch, Midori, Greg Mental and Chad Harris all come to mind.
Bosch
February 13th, 2009
1:06 pm
jon,
Just curious. Would you like to elaborate on your 12:55?
CommunistAJC
February 13th, 2009
1:06 pm
Jay,
nowhere in the Bible does it say that a Christian can’t defend himself.
Mrs. Godzilla
February 13th, 2009
1:07 pm
Bosch
never ate cheese paper myself, but first time i roasted a turkey i didn’t think about the bag of offal inside…..
anybody else read the series of books by Jean Auel…..Clan of the Cave Bear….Neanderthals in love….
GodHatesTrash
February 13th, 2009
1:07 pm
Another sordid occurence of interbreeding between neanderthals and spineless jellyfish:
Judd Gregg avoided Vietnam because of acne…
(Commonly known as the American Chickenhawk)
AJC/DNC Management
February 13th, 2009
1:08 pm
Speaking of liberal idiocies, read this article from today’s Urinal/ Jihad and guess what the goonies are trying so hard not to say-
Russia gears up to make Arctic claims- Chilingarov told reporters Russia also is preparing to send a team of 50 polar scientists to the island of Spitsbergen, where Norway claims exclusive rights. He said an advance team would leave Saturday to choose a place for the station.
Aahhh, yes, a “global warming” research mission but, uh, why, pray tell, would they need ice breakers if there is no ice?
Buried deep within the dimwit friendly article, at a point where most dullards would have dozed off before reaching-
Russia, the United States, Canada and other northern countries are trying to assert jurisdiction over the Arctic, whose oil, gas and minerals until recently have been considered too difficult to recover.
Bwahahahahahaha, oww!
Since Oblahmasan has taken charge of “defending” the United States, the Russians have 1) tossed us out of the major resupply base for the conflict in Afghanistan, 2) laid claim to the Arctic.
Boy, aren’t they skeered of him?
CommunistAJC
February 13th, 2009
1:08 pm
By the way, that shot of Neanderthal Man looks like a cross between Rod Blago, Barrack Obama, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Helen Thomas.