Almost two-thirds of Americans back torture inquiry
Almost two-thirds of Americans polled by Gallup say they would support either a criminal investigation into allegations of torture and illegal wiretapping by the Bush administration or an independent commission to look into those issues. Only 34 percent would oppose both.
Frankly, those numbers surprise me a lot. They’re almost certain to add momentum to the push in Washington by Sen. Pat Leahy and others for an independent panel with subpoena power to look into what happened. Others, such as Rep. John Conyers, suggest a possible criminal probe as well, but that would be a mistake.
First, the legal, national-security and political obstacles to securing convictions against top officials in the White House and Pentagon would be impossible to overcome. It simply would not happen. At best, and at worst, you could secure convictions against lower-level officials who were carrying out the decisions made by their superiors, and I have no stomach for that. If you can’t get the big fishes, don’t make examples of the little fishes.
We already saw that dynamic play out at Abu Graib, where lowly enlisted personnel were sentenced to long prison terms but no higher-ranking personnel were ever prosecuted criminally. They should have gone after those officers who by negligence, incompetence or active encouragement allowed such practices to occur, including those who wore stars on their shoulders. But they did not.
Second, the Bush administration’s use of torture was no secret. The media knew it; members of Congress, including top Democrats, knew it; the courts knew it, and so did the American public. But nobody intervened to stop it. To the contrary, U.S. voters re-elected President Bush in 2004 and allowed the practice to continue, in effect making the entire country co-conspirators.
Even the prospect of non-criminal investigations makes some in Washington nervous. “If every administration started to re-examine what every prior administration did, there would be no end to it,” Sen. Arlen Specter said. “This is not Latin America.”
Ordinarily, I would agree wholeheartedly with Specter. But government-sanctioned and government-operated torture is hardly an ordinary issue. Ignoring what happened is not the act of a moral or contrite people. An independent commission with subpoena power — backed by the threat of perjury for those who lie — is a good idea.
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86 comments Add your comment
Taxpayer
February 12th, 2009
2:13 pm
Who needs an investigation into allegations of torture! Dang, Jay. We were subjected to eight long years of it. Now, we just need to punish the Republicans so we can move on. To start with, Bush has been given his first assignment giving a speech to the Canadians. Let’s see, how should he open that speech, “Fellow Canadians, I’m here to tell you what not to do just in case you missed any of the last eight years in Washington, DC…” That should do.
CommunistAJC
February 12th, 2009
2:24 pm
Overreach, overreach, overreach! Yaaaah! Jay, you do realize that the dems will also have to subject themselves to investigations, right? THEY ALL KNEW ABOUT IT!
Jay
February 12th, 2009
2:26 pm
I do realize that, Commie, and am absolutely, 100 percent fine with it.
getalife
February 12th, 2009
2:29 pm
A Truth Commission to Investigate Bush-Cheney Administration Abuses
by Senator Patrick Leahy
Instead of covering it up, there should be legal investigations into w breaking the law and the economic disaster.
It will not happen because there is no accountability and nobody to demand it.
CommunistAJC
February 12th, 2009
2:29 pm
Jay,
alrighty then. As Maxine Waters said yesterday, it’s now on record. Woo hoo!
RW-(the original)
February 12th, 2009
2:35 pm
Jay B,
Maybe the number surprises you because you discount the fact that many of those saying to go ahead with an investigation are sick and tired of the Bush administration being accused, convicted, and locked away on nothing but partisan sniping. A put up or shut up attitude if you will.
It’s also absurd that you state as fact that the Bush administration was torturing people without defining what was done, when it was done, and who defined it as torture.
The Appeasers
February 12th, 2009
2:38 pm
Boo Hoo. A few terrorist were tortured. So what? And thanks to President Bush’s strong policies America has had nearly 8 years without a single terrorist attacks.
And also thanks to President Bush and his strong war on terror, America is now respected by our allies and feared by our enemies. But with the new pusillanimous appeasers running the show, baraKKK-O and his like will be handing the terrorist and Bin Ladan the key to our front door. No wonder gun sales are thru the roof. The smart people are protecting themselves.
hryder
February 12th, 2009
2:46 pm
ENOUGH!!!!!!! This blatant partisianship needs to stop yesterday. All of you are wrong some of the time. Some are wrong almost all the time, because someone who does not agree with you is a Democrat or a Republican you seem to want them buried under the jail. Oh, excuse you, you are perfect, never wrong, that is why you are the smartest, richest, best looking, number one in everthing but common sense. If you believe that what you say can not possibily be anything but the absolute best course of action just think. Others could have such a detachment from reality that they wish the same fate for you that you indicate for your opponents. I have news for you. Reality is that you are both in great need of psychological intervention and should not be permitted around ANY lethal weapons until it has been determined by a of mental health experts that you are sane.
AJC/DNC Management
February 12th, 2009
2:56 pm
So do I-
In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA’s overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.
Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.-Washington Post
Know what I mean?
Almost two-thirds of Americans back torture inquiry - Atlanta Journal Constitution | Absurd
February 12th, 2009
2:57 pm
[...] post by Google Inc. and software by Elliott Back Послать ссылку на этот обзор другу по [...]
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
2:57 pm
The Democrats and everyone else had their time to impeach Bush and Cheney and the rest of them, but they didn’t, so to do so now would be a waste of time.
And we don’t need that.
Has anyone who can stomach it seen on Lou Dobbs show when he puts those ridiculous polls up with questions like:
Do you agree that we need security at airports?
He could put up one that asked:
Do you agree that party bickering needs to end?
Well, whaddayaknow! 99% of you say yes!!!
Let Bush and his sidekick go away into the pages of irrelevant history – hopefully never to be heard from again.
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
2:59 pm
@2:57
OH MY GOD!!! Is that some kind of foreign languge craziness? A TERRORIST has infiltrated our blog!!! Somebody warn Jay quick!!
Taxpayer
February 12th, 2009
3:00 pm
Shall we begin. Sit down and cross you legs. Good. Now, rest your arms on your knees and place the tips of you thumbs to the tips of your pinkys. Good. All together now, Ahmmmmmm. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Rob
February 12th, 2009
3:01 pm
Can we prosecute both the Republicans AND Democrats for THEFT?!?!? They are saddling EVERY AMERICA ALIVE TODAY with over $12,000.00 in debt just from the most recent frivolous so-called bailouts!!! This figure doesn’t include the $10.8 TRILLION we already can’t afford to pay back! Enough!!! Time to get back to the U.S. Constitution, and GET THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OUT OF OUR LIVES!!!!!
gttim
February 12th, 2009
3:01 pm
No, we need prosecutions. Not prosecuting just gives any administration the permission to break the law. The GOP has been bad enough about breaking the law since Reagan and the Iran-Contra Affair. Hell, Nixon should have been nailed as well, but Ford kept his end of the deal that made him president and pardoned him. I don’t remember the GOP screaming about moving on with Clinton. That was completely irrelevant compared to the illegalities Bush and Cheney have committed.
Any administration, GOP or Dem, should be prosecuted for breaking the law.
And I am not complicit in torture. I voted against that moron twice. I knew he was an immoral idiot in 1999.
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
3:13 pm
gttim,
Many of us knew that.
I agree with you that we should not ever condone torture, and I also agree that what I feel Bush and Cheney did while in office is far worse than covering up for a blow job. However, as Jay wrote earlier, the American people voted the moron in charge twice, and well, this is a democracy.
I think after 9/11 many people were so scared that they were willing to look the other way, but finally got their wits about them. True, we haven’t had another terrorist attack on that scale here since then, but I don’t think that has anything to do with Bush being so wise, I think it’s because AQ hasn’t had to – we’ve taken the fight to them, that’s how they prefer it, I’m sure – and in the process destroyed our economy, which I think was their goal all along.
Curious Observer
February 12th, 2009
3:14 pm
I’m not ready to settle merely for prosecution of the officials and their underlings who engaged in crimes against humanity or against the Geneva Convention. I would like to see prosecution of those Americans who voiced support for such crimes, even if their numbers are so large that those prosecuted are to be chosen by lot. We have several on this blog. Eisenhower, after all, forced German townspeople who claimed no knowledge of what was happening in adjacent concentration camps to march through those camps and see the rotting corpses. If prosecutions are to have any purpose, they should wipe the slate clean by punishing those explicitly or implicitly involved in the crimes. In short, I want to see some of the Bushbots do the perp walk and spend time behind bars, like the people they held and tortured without charges.
Mrs. Godzilla
February 12th, 2009
3:16 pm
I fully support investigations and prosecutions where required in the case of torture and I am so proud of the American people for standing up for honor.
That said, I suspect there were members of Congress who have a D after their names who may also be involved and may be caught in the net.
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW IN AMERICA.
We cannot turn the page until we have read and understood it.
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
3:16 pm
Curious Observer,
Ewww. Really? Eisenhower did that?
Mrs. Godzilla
February 12th, 2009
3:22 pm
SPEAK OF THE DEVIL…..
Unredacted documents reveal prisoners tortured to death
Curious Observer
February 12th, 2009
3:26 pm
Bosch @3:16: Yes, he did that. No one could buy the stories of ignorance of what was going on, when the stench of burning human flesh was hanging over a town. In one case, the mayor of a town and his wife went home afterward and hanged themselves.
Cal
February 12th, 2009
3:26 pm
Of course the truth of this sorry episode in America’s history should be investigated. Truth was in short supply under the Bushies and Americans deserve the truth from their government. Those who cling to the notion that this is about “coddling terrorists” should just go play on the schoolyard where they belong. These activities have had a lasting impact on the civil rights of American citizens and have done much to cost America its moral leadership in the world community. It is time America shows that it is still a great nation and a world leader and not just a self-serving bully state as we were under Bush and his cronies.
Ogel
February 12th, 2009
3:30 pm
Mr. Leahy is from my state and I do not agree with what he has proposed. If you are not going to punish the ones who committed the crimes, then don’t waste taxpayer money. Just knowing who did what and how, is not going to stop other from doing the same thing or worse. If you know someone is a thief or a murderer, and know how they did the crime, but do nothing to the person how many times do you think they will commit the crime. Plus if they get away with one type of crime will they also go on to bigger and better crimes because they won be punished. As far as its only the little guy that gets caught up, why, there is no rule that you cant go after the big fish, up to and including the president. Politicians use national security to cover a multitude of sins they commit and has been used by successive administration and politicians. My thought is what is worst for national security and our country, letting a few secrets become known or having a corrupt government that is, of the few; for the few; by the few. If it keeps on this vein the country will surely fall from within. We have a chance to set thing s back on the right course.
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
3:34 pm
Curious Observer,
I can certainly believe that. I had never heard that before.
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
3:36 pm
Lincoln’s “Lyceum Address” is a great speech – I suggest we all read it and then think about this topic again.
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
3:38 pm
“Such are the effects of mob law; and such as the scenes, becoming more and more frequent in this land so lately famed for love of law and order; and the stories of which, have even now grown too familiar, to attract any thing more, than an idle remark”
Abraham Lincoln said that – he’s cool.
GodHatesTrash
February 12th, 2009
3:45 pm
Decent people would love to see these Bush administration kkklowns behind bars.
AmVet
February 12th, 2009
3:52 pm
“Ignoring what happened is not the act of a moral or contrite people.”
The Hero of the Texas ANG and his fellow chickenhawks have been accused of many things. But never of being moral or contrite.
I’m not sure that Abu Gharib and waterboarding rise to the definition of torture.
But to me, that is not really the point.
This nation has always heretofore proven that it will never even consider doing anything to appear to be stooping to the level of the maniacal murderers. There have always been isolated incidents in wars to be sure, but before George W. Bush I can think of no US administration that was willing to close the gap between us and these religious, barbarian thugs in this regard by implementing a systematic basis for doing so.
It will be to his never-ending disgrace (as well as those who voted for and still apologize on his behalf) he was the first to do so…
KJ
February 12th, 2009
3:55 pm
I DO NOT care what it takes to keep my Country and my family safe from terrorists.
I do not want to know about it, just do whatever it takes.
We train people how to get information out of the enemy, let them do their job.
This whole Politically Correct and “We cannot bring ourselves down to their level” is DOES NOT work in this case and is going to get us hit agin.
DO NOT even bring up the Geneva Convention, they ARE NOT in uniform and DO NOT belong to the military. They have NO rights PERIOD!
Torture IS NOT putting underwear on their heads, urinating on their Holy book or even water boeading. None of these cause physical pain or cause death. We DO NOT cut off body parts and the heads of our enemies or captured like they do. We DO NOT kill civilians with explosives. Maybe we need to show them we are stil the Strong United States of America and will do whatever it takes to get rid of anyone who wants to kill Americans (Democrat, Republican, moderate, conservitive or liberal).
KJ
Bud Wiser
February 12th, 2009
4:00 pm
Speaking of torture, when will these ignorant ‘Vermont Teddy Bear’ advertisements ever end?
Politics is cyclical. If the Democrats want to start investigating everything Bush, what goes around comes around, and Chris Dodd, and especially Barney Frank, had better be watching their backsides when the inevitable investigations into their heinous malfeasance of duties are uncovered.
Most politicians I’ve heard being interviewed lately are essentially lukewarm to it because of the skeletons they have in their own closets, I suppose, except for the freakazoid left wing zealots.
You people need to move ahead, not look behind, think about the future instead of dwelling on the past. Had heinous crimes been committed by Bush Inc., the Dems had to know about it at the time and their choice to remain silent then makes them culpable as well.
Only the idiot patrol wants to see this administration bogged down in crap like that with so many more important things to be attended to first. Do you really want the economy put on the back burner, or worse still those trillions of your dollars disappearing while no one is looking because you are so hot for Dick Cheney’s arse?
Grow up and try to at least ACT intelligent.
Mike
February 12th, 2009
4:06 pm
If anyone want to see the poll themselves, instead of Jay’s cherry-picked facts they can see it here:
“No Mandate for Criminal Probes of Bush Administration”
http://www.gallup.com/poll/114580/No-Mandate-Criminal-Probes-Bush-Administration.aspx
Apparently the findings are very similar in regards to the wire-tapping program that Obama has indicated he will continue. Maybe this is why Jay focused ignored it.
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
4:07 pm
Bud Wiser,
“Speaking of torture, when will these ignorant ‘Vermont Teddy Bear’ advertisements ever end?”
Good one. For once I have to agree with you. I abhor Valentine’s Day. What a lame ass tradition.
Mike
February 12th, 2009
4:08 pm
“Decent people would love to see these Bush administration kkklowns behind bars.”
According to the poll results, it seems that pretty much only Democrats fit GodHatesTrash’s definition of “decent”. My guess is that far more folks would find his hateful comments “decent” if polled.
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
4:09 pm
No swear word filters? Sorry Jay, I’ll try to monitor myself.
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
4:12 pm
Pssst. Mrs. G.
Over here.
How do you do that link thing?
getalife
February 12th, 2009
4:18 pm
Gregg withdraws from Commerce nominee.
Must have a tax problem.
The ladies in that teddy bear commercial are fine .
CommunistAJC
February 12th, 2009
4:21 pm
getalife,
just saw that. I think he knows whats coming for the dems. It ain’t gonna be pretty.
Mrs. Godzilla
February 12th, 2009
4:22 pm
Bosch…
type this:
then whatever you want to show up in blue like – eat this neocon scum
then no spaces
don’t tell anybody but I practiced on some of the previous threads
that rolled over here…..
less ribbing
i got a cheat sheet from here
AJC/DNC Management
February 12th, 2009
4:23 pm
Gregg withdraws nomination for Commerce Secretary
Bwahahahahahahahahaha, oww!
Stop it!!!!
I don’t know, instead of Congress investigating Bushie, maybe someone should investigate Congress.
Or maybe that’s what the whole charade is about, deflecting attention away from what hacks, felons and goons they are.
ew
Mrs. Godzilla
February 12th, 2009
4:25 pm
Bosch
be careful that html stuff is strong magic…..just trying to describe the link thingy made a link…..
use the cheat sheet…..and RW’s link from earlier
Midori
February 12th, 2009
4:35 pm
Isn’t Gregg a republican?
yes, by all means, investigate him!!!
Mrs. Godzilla
February 12th, 2009
4:37 pm
FOLLOW UP FROM A PREVIOUS DISCUSSION…..
But Pelosi’s office says even this broader claim isn’t true. Spokesman Drew Hammill tells the Plum Line’s Greg Sargent, “There are no federal wetland restoration projects in line to get funded in San Francisco… The idea that $30 million will be spent to save mice is a total fabrication
Damn, I almost forgot Rule # 1, if it comes from the GOP it’s pobably not true.
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
4:37 pm
Mrs. G.,
Wow. It sure is. Very very strong magic indeed. Got it (maybe). Thanks.
Bud Wiser
February 12th, 2009
4:40 pm
There are all kinds of crap pulled by politicians over the years that if so inclined, virtually every one of these Washington snobs could be hammered. Frankly, I think a DOJ investigation into the activities the last eight years of EVERY MEMBER of the Senate and House would be as glorious and revealing as what the loony left wants to get out of Bush, Inc.
For instance: As a native Tennessean, I grew up with Al Gore, Sr., as one of our senators for years and years. His family became very wealthy, and I’m going to tell you how.
Everyone knows about our wonderful interstate system, affectionately known as the Eisenhower Interstate System because of its establishment and creation during his tenure. Coincidentally, Al Gore Sr was in office at the time as well. As the plans for the roadway system became a reality, the first business of order became the acquisition of land through the states where it would traverse.
Oddly enough, before the actual plans for location (which were kept secret because crappo farmland could become immediately VERY valuable should the roads pass through them), Senator Gore went on a family buying spree. Now, everyone would like to own a large plot of land for either farming, hunting, or just living on and relaxing. Gore purchased a literal STRING of farms halfway from Knoxville to Nashville, and I mean a string because they were all, instead of grouped together to make a massive estate a la Ted Turner, his reportedly stretched end to end about 130 miles.
Stay with me here.
A while afterwards when the government announced the interstate proposed layout, I-40 in Tennessee was going to pass through virtually every piece of that 130 mile stretch of Gore land, tripling or greater its value when the government came along to buy it. Insider information, or just the way the big boys do business in Washington? You make the call.
This, among many other reasons, is why I have despised Junior all of these years, and consider his holier than thou attitude with this global warming crap to be just so much nonsense. No more glaring an example than what link I give here can show the true hypocrisy of this personal gain alarmist. – - http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=468
The apple did not fall far from the tree, and Junior is making a lot of personal money on this fabricated and unsubstantiated science for idiots.
Mrs. Godzilla
February 12th, 2009
4:40 pm
From Josh Marshall:
” Late Update: Hearing maybe that this might not be about Census or Stimulus but maybe Gregg not being able to hack the deluge of crap he was getting from what’s left of the New Hampshire GOP.”
I’d read the GOP was very unhappy about his recusing himself from the stimulus vote…
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
4:41 pm
Oh, and Mrs. G.,
Your secret is safe with me.
RW-(the original)
February 12th, 2009
4:41 pm
Bosch,
Here’s the thing I put together earlier. Type it just the way it appears, but put your link in place of URL and your text where it says to put the text.
RW-(the original)
February 12th, 2009
4:43 pm
In fact you could just copy and paste it then insert your link between the parenthesis and your text where it belongs.
ConservativeAnchor
February 12th, 2009
4:47 pm
The New Hampshire State Legislature is packed with conservatives. Today they are voting on HCR 6, which reaffirms states rights against the federal government. If it passes New Hampshire can tell Obozo to shove National Health Care where it doesn’t shine. It actually is a very conservative, Give me Liberty or Give me Death state.
>>From Josh Marshall:
” Late Update: Hearing maybe that this might not be about Census or Stimulus but maybe Gregg not being able to hack the deluge of crap he was getting from what’s left of the New Hampshire GOP.”
I’d read the GOP was very unhappy about his recusing himself from the stimulus vote…
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
4:47 pm
Okay, I’m brave, and a confident person for the most part, I’m gonna practice.
Here goes:
Anna Nicole Smith’s Life To Be An Opera
Let’s keep our fingers crossed.
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
4:48 pm
OH MY GOD!!!! I did it on the first try!!!! Technology IS my friend. I have nothing to fear.
Mrs. Godzilla
February 12th, 2009
4:51 pm
Bosch YOU DA MAN!!!!
Bud Wiser
February 12th, 2009
4:51 pm
How did you do that, Bosch?
I haven’t been keeping up on the new style……
Thank you in advance.
: – )
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
4:51 pm
Thanks RW. I didn’t see it earlier – I think I got it. I’m excited, technology and me don’t mesh out real well most of the time.
I think I’m one of those people who have some kind of weird electric current in their blood and I make electronics freak out. I can’t wear a watch – they always stop. It’s weird.
Thanks again.
getalife
February 12th, 2009
4:52 pm
As Reed told MSNBC today:
“Well, I think we have to seriously investigate allegations of torture. I don’t know if we require a formal new commission to do that. We have the Department of Justice. We have federal attorneys.
But we cannot simply ignore credible allegations. They have to be investigated. I think our political system, and our political system as well as our judicial system, is strong enough to conduct these investigations fairly and then to — to bring those people who might have violated the law to justice.
I don’t think we shouldn’t be afraid of that. But I think that should be in response to specific allegations and specific evidence, and not simply setting up a new commission.”
There ya go.
Leahy is trying to cover it up.
Ogel
February 12th, 2009
4:53 pm
As far as any of you out there that do not think water boarding is torture, until you experience it speak softly. It was part of my training before going to Vietnam, and yes it is torture. Especially if you are person it is being done to and you don’t know if the torturer will stop or not, unlike our training. I am an independent mainly as I do not like a party telling me how to think and vote. I vote for who will in my estimation do the best job. If democrats republicans independents etc. break the law, then they should pay the price. It has nothing to do with parties, it has to do in what our country is. Torture does not make this country safe. If you really think that, then you must believe all those people killed in Salem Mass where witches. There are ways to get information without torture that work, and are more reliable then torture.
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
4:54 pm
Mrs. G.,
Wow, I certainly feel like it!!!
Bud Wiser,
Do what? The link? Or are you making fun of the story content? I just picked the most absurd article I could find for practice.
RW-(the original)
February 12th, 2009
4:54 pm
Bosch,
You’re not my wife are you? She can drive by a bank and makee the time and tempurature signs spin out of control.
And you’re welcome.
Mrs. Godzilla
February 12th, 2009
4:56 pm
Gregg’s non-votes get reaction back home
From New Hampshire Union Leader News….
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
4:58 pm
RW,
Um, I don’t think so. LOL!!
There are more of us out there? Sometimes I try to concentrate real hard and harness the energy and zap people – but it hasn’t worked yet. When it does, I’m getting a red suit like Iron Man.
Bud Wiser
February 12th, 2009
5:00 pm
I would like to the link thing, I looked at Mrs G’s link on how to do HTML, but it looks a bit complicated and time consuming.
And to Mrs G., thanks for that link, I shall try to practice before making a fool of myself. And, did you ever see my response to when you were asking a few days back about a restaurant near the airport? I think you may have been referring to the Barbecue Kitchen on Virginia Ave?
RW-(the original)
February 12th, 2009
5:01 pm
Bosch,
Remember Hiro had to concentrate really hard before he began to be able to bend time.
RW-(the original)
February 12th, 2009
5:04 pm
Bud,
Take a look at my 4:41 and see if doesn’t look a little easier.
AJC/DNC Management
February 12th, 2009
5:06 pm
OBAMA BURNED: GREGG WITHDRAWS AFTER POLICIES TOO MUCH TO STOMACH
Bwahahahahahahahahaha, oww!
They got him in there and started telling him all their depraved and deviant ideas.
He bailed.
Bwahahahahahahahahaha, oww!
Stop it!!!!
Swami Dave
February 12th, 2009
5:07 pm
Now that Senator Gregg has removed himself from consideration for Commerce Secretary and could represent a 38th vote against final passage of the stima-spendu-lus package, one can only imagine the stark-raving mad ballyhoo ranting that would ensue were the “moderate bipartisan go-along-to-get-along three” to vote against the conference-negotiated version of the bill and thereby defeat it.
Even more telling would be the stock market jump that would likely occur as investors see that this pork-laden wasteful spending bill were not destined to pass.
Now there would be change America could hope for…..
-Swami Dave
Midori
February 12th, 2009
5:08 pm
Mrs. G,
looks like we have the makings of another seat in our column, huh?
BTW – That pic of Jay looks very nice. But he does look real different than the one on the old blog.
I must say this new blog takes some getting used to. It’s all good, tho.
Midori
February 12th, 2009
5:10 pm
Looks like I spoke too soon, as some things NEVER change.
Andy’s lack of logic and common sense, for instance.
Bosch
February 12th, 2009
5:12 pm
RW,
That’s true. I felt like Hiro just then – exactly like that. I even jumped up and yelled something in Japanese – I have no idea what I said.
Bud,
Yeah, look at RW’s thing, and on that sheet that Mrs. G. linked, look at page three, under the “Links” section where it has a sub-section “Correct” and type exactly what is there (except for the bullet). Do you see where the quotes marks are? That’s where the actual URL goes, and where it says “My Link” that’s where you would type what you want to appear in the post itself (the blue letters).
Trust me, if a techno retard like me can do it – anybody can.
Midori
February 12th, 2009
5:12 pm
Swami,
I thought it took 50 votes to pass legislation?
where you gonna get the other 12 votes?
AJC/DNC Management
February 12th, 2009
5:30 pm
i r o diM: Filibuster?
Swami Dave: Unfortunately, the three stooges, Collins, Snowe and Specter, not only remain but appear to have developed Stockholm Syndrome.
I have never seen anything as disgusting as what took place yesterday when the demoKKKrats paraded their hostages before the cameras as human shields.
dhimmoKKKrats are scumbags of the lowest order, they won’t even take credit for their own monstrosity, KKKowards all.
No wonder they admire Hamas and al Qaeda.
ew
RW-(the original)
February 12th, 2009
5:35 pm
Bosch,
If you can replay it and watch your monitor there should be subtitles where you figure out what you said in Japanese.
I didn’t start watching until about the 8th or 9th episode of season one. The only sight I could find back then to catch up on the earlier episodes was in English with French subtitles, so I was really lost when Hiro and Ando were talking.
Taxpayer
February 12th, 2009
5:40 pm
At least the Senate has three educated Republicans. It’s a start. Of course, they’re RINOs because a real Republican is a Do Nothing.
AJC/DNC Management
February 12th, 2009
5:46 pm
The putrid, festering diseases keep bursting forth from this parasitic growth-
For the first time since 1996, the federal government would begin paying bonuses to states that increase their welfare caseloads. Under the stimulus bills, the federal government will pay 80 percent of cost for each new family that a state enrolls in welfare; this matching rate is far higher than it was under the old AFDC program.
Welcome back to the ghetto, hopeandchangers.duh
Jay
February 12th, 2009
5:54 pm
One of the advantages of this software is an ability to create a list of banned words that will automatically cause a comment to go unpublished. I just put the first two words on my list: rethuglican and dhimmokkkrat (plus a couple of versions of that last one.)
Swami Dave
February 12th, 2009
5:55 pm
Midori:
I may be incorrect (it does happen occasionally – smile), but it is my understanding that there will have to be a cloture vote shutting off debate on the conference-version of the bill effectively calling for a vote of passage. Typically, “debate” on these conference versions are largely pomp-and-circumstance chest-beating speeches celebrating their amazing work. (As an editorial note on myself: Yes, I understand that both parties do this and it is largely an exercise for face-time with little purpose or value.)
That said, clotures for these conference bills are usually certainties because issues were worked out in their passage.
However, if I am correct, Republicans would only need those 3 votes – not 12.
That said, I expect passage.
Honestly, Specter, Snowe, and Collins have sealed their political fates with their votes already cast so there is no real benefit to them to change now. If they do, they move to attack position #1 by the liberal campaign machine who would spend any amount required in vengance. If they do not, their votes enabling passage have already tied this legislation (doomed to fail) like a millstone around their political necks.
Effectively, they will bear full blame for any failure and will get no credit in the unlikely event that it actually works. Either way, their seats sit in crosshairs that Democrats are already coveting and hoping to win. It was a decision that made little sense if the plan actually works and makes none under the realization that it will not.
Were it not for the fact that with one simple vote they will have added a $12,000 debt to every American man, woman, boy, and girls liabilities, I might feel sorry for them. As it is, I realize that the $12,000 estimate is a farce as well since the bottom half of wage earners do not even pay income taxes so their portions of this liability falls (like everything else) to those of us who do.
-Swami Dave
AJC/DNC Management
February 12th, 2009
5:59 pm
Aahhh, yes, automated censorship.
We’ve come so far as country, amazing, isn’t it?
Taxpayer
February 12th, 2009
6:21 pm
Jay,
You the man. Go ahead, Andy. Say Urinal for me. Oops, I just did. Let’s see if it is banned yet. How long before Andy goes silent? Anyone want to venture a guess.
AJC/DNC Management
February 12th, 2009
6:29 pm
Taxpayer: Better hope he doesn’t ban “whine” or you will be the one going silent.
Midori
February 12th, 2009
6:58 pm
Taxpayer,
he’s such a whiny punk, isn’t he?
always the first to whine, whine, whine.
Paul
February 12th, 2009
7:13 pm
Jay 5:54
Well done!
Bosch
I’ve kinda skimmed thru the posts. Question: I wonder how the poll results would have gone if the question were “Pres Clinton and VP Gore conducted a widespread rendition program, in which terror suspects were sent to other countries where they were brutally tortured to obtain information. Do you support investigation of Pres Clinton and VP Gore for war crimes and their prosecution if they are found to have ordered renditions?”
Taxpayer
February 12th, 2009
7:25 pm
Andy,
Exactly how many times have I used the “w” word that you reference since Jay asked for it not to be used? Go ahead, Andy. Make my day.
AJC/DNC Management
February 12th, 2009
7:49 pm
Taxpayer: You don’t have to get hysterical.
Geez, calm down, man.
I’m thinking maybe this censorship software that Bookman has unleashed upon the customers of his newspaper might have some ability to sense the basic moaning that emanates from all of your comments, thus deleting them based on common decency.
Wishful thinking, I suppose.
(You do understand sarcasm, don’t you?)
Taxpayer
February 13th, 2009
7:25 am
I didn’t realize I was yelling, Andy. You, on the other hand, were quick to complain. All I did was respond to your complaints. You do understand, don’t you?
Cornelia Cillier
February 14th, 2009
9:45 am
The talking heads have overlooked the fact innoncent people were harmed, innoncent men were tortured. The nation is not made safe nor is government sustained when its agents commit criminal acts, war crimes in the name of home security. Torture may produce short term results for governments. Eventually, those governments loose the respect and goodwill of its world partners. Supporters of the Bush Administration’s muscular “war on terrorism” refuse to accept it is what we do, not who we are that generates hate around the world. Over the past eight years we have shown a reckless disregard for the rule of law. There will be a price paid for those violation. Unlike Americans, the rest of the world does not suffer from short-term memory or attention deficient syndrome. Ultimately, the victims of the Bush Doctrine will be heard whether the US approves or not. Once the layers are peeled back the US will learn how corrosive the last eight years have been and why the ‘Coalition of the Willing’ is no longer willing.
muzza
February 16th, 2009
10:28 pm
“First, the legal, national-security and political obstacles to securing convictions against top officials in the White House and Pentagon would be impossible to overcome. It simply would not happen.”
What specifically are these “national-security and politial obstacles”?
I keep hearing this. Minus details, it sounds like an open threat.
Bob
February 17th, 2009
1:48 pm
Funny, President Obama s keeping this one particular piece of legislation and power alive while tossing out most of the rest. Yet no one complains that he retains the right to torture suspects.