Is NHL about to desert the Arizona desert?
Since their one and only playoff appearance, the Atlanta Thrashers have finished the last four seasons with point totals of 76, 76, 83 and 80. Because of this, we here in Thrasherville have lamented how our team simply seems to wander aimlessly in the Desert of Mediocrity. But there is one fan base out there…out west…that now find themselves hoping that their team continues to remain in the desert.
No, not the fictitious type that we seem trapped in year in and year out…but the actual desert of Arizona.
Wednesday night the Phoenix Coyotes were swept to the curb in the opening round of the NHL playoffs by the Detroit Red Wings. But if would-be owner Matthew Hulsizer is unable to maneuver around certain roadblocks that hamper his efforts to buy the team, then it’s quite possible the Yotes will be jetting their way back to Winnipeg…the city that the franchise called home until 1996.
The Coyotes and their fans have struggled through this situation for a couple years now. The team filed for bankruptcy in May 2009 and the league then took over the franchise. Since then, commissioner Gary Bettman has held out hope that a resolution could be found to keep the team in the 48th U.S. state.
Last year two proposed deals fell through involving Jerry Reinsdorf and Ice Edge. Then last winter the city of Glendale struck a deal with Hulsizer who would purchase the team from the league and keep them in Arizona.
But the threat of a lawsuit from the Goldwater Institute has held up the bonds sale that is needed to close the deal. The watchdog group objects to the funds going to Hulsizer in the lease agreement, and then repaid through parking fees.
Last month, Hulsizer promised a guarantee of $75 million of the city’s $100 million contribution, but that failed to win the support of the Goldwater Institute.
Recently Bettman told Rogers Sportsnet in Toronto that he is still looking for ways to keep an NHL presence in Arizona, but time is a finite commodity…and the clock is ticking.
“Do we have an infinite amount of time? The answer is obviously not,” the commissioner said. “But we haven’t been holding an announcement waiting to see when the Coyotes are done playing, I can assure you of that.”
To their credit however, Phoenix as been able to put together two straight playoff appearance seasons even while dealing with the pressing off-ice issues… a fact not overlooked by head coach Dave Tippett.
“We have scratched and clawed and I give our group a ton of credit because they dealt with it for two years”.
Regardless, the uncertain future of the team still has had an effect on the players as well as the fans. Coyotes captain Shane Doan…who played in Winnipeg during the Jets final season…admitted that the past two years have been difficult.
“I don’t care what anybody says, it’s a strain when you deal with your family and you deal with people outside of it”, Doan explained. “And if you’re going to lose a series 4-0, it’s a perfect example that we’re answering questions about what’s going to happen next. You don’t even get to think about the year. You have to think about what’s going on next”.
“That’s the part that bugs you”, the 34-year old forward continued. “You’ve only got so many years to play in this league and you want to enjoy them”.
Unfortunately, that’s exactly what Doan, his teammates, others involved with the Coyotes organization and their fans are facing…an uncertain future. And all they can do now is wait and see if the NHL is wiling to continue to exercise patience and allow the process to play out… or if they decide that after two years, enough is enough.
If the latter attitude prevails, then they could allow the Coyotes to be purchased by those actively seeking to bring NHL hockey back to Manitoba’s capital. If indeed that resolution comes to pass, then the only desert left with an NHL presence will be the Desert of Mediocrity where teams like the Thrashers continue to seemingly wander aimlessly.
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91 comments Add your comment
Joe McGrath
April 21st, 2011
5:10 pm
@Redlight. I bet since Glavine has gone public with his desires, people are calling him.
Red Light
April 21st, 2011
5:12 pm
Typing error?
Red Light
April 21st, 2011
5:14 pm
I agree Joe McGrath, likely scenario and a clever ploy if it works. Lessens his own exposure too. Probably checking the temperature gauges!
kracker
April 21st, 2011
5:23 pm
WBF was referring to Brett Hull who was drafted two rounds later, not two spots later. I think that was Phil Foley’s mistake in his original article that was posted this morning. It appears that Foley has removed the Hull reference in his updated version of the story.
dca919
April 21st, 2011
5:38 pm
More than a few Wings fans are hoping Atlanta folds instead of Phoenix so the team can play the bulk of its games in the Eastern Time Zone in which it is located by moving conferences and restoring it rivalry with 4 of the Original Six teams.
ZAvalanche
April 21st, 2011
5:39 pm
Brett Hull signed his soul over to the devil……….
Red Light
April 21st, 2011
5:48 pm
Great quote from O’ Brother Where Art Thou
“Well, ain’t it a small world, spiritually speaking. Pete and Delmar just been baptized and saved. I guess I’m the only one that remains unaffiliated.”
kracker
April 21st, 2011
5:49 pm
That is another reason for me to not be fond of the Wings and their fans. Respect, yes. Like them, no.
Laurie McLellan
April 21st, 2011
7:18 pm
Not to worry Phoenix or Atlanta. A deal will be re-negotiated with Glendale and Hulsizer and will be made clearer later tonight. The Thrashers aren’t going anywhere. The NHL has no interest whatsoever in the NHL returning to Winnipeg. Apparently we don’t have parks or any entertainment for families. We must all live in igloos surrounded in ultra-cold winters. How ridiculous! I still say a Manitoba summer is as beautiful as a Montana sky!
Alan R.
April 21st, 2011
7:56 pm
Fans of one team hoping another folds? That’s silly talk.
Rawhide
April 21st, 2011
8:03 pm
And now C-Viv as an interview with Tom Glavine regarding his interest in keping the Thrashers here.
kracker
April 21st, 2011
8:04 pm
I think my reference above to Phil Foley updating a version of his story was incorrect. It looks like a newer, but similar story.
JT from Columbus
April 21st, 2011
8:12 pm
I know these things take time, but I wish we could get some concrete news on new ownership.
Horsetoothedjackass
April 21st, 2011
8:42 pm
Now if the Coyotes do return to Winnipeg, it also opens up another situation in regards to the AHL’s Manitoba Moose, who currently play at the MTS Centre and are owned by TNS&E, the presumed buyer of the Coyotes if they return to Winnipeg.
First thing would be relocating that franchise, and while the AHL has not publicly said anything regarding the matter, they do have plans in place and potential relocation markets. The next issue is their affiliation with an NHL team. Currently the Moose are affiliated with the Vancouver Canucks and the Coyotes are currently affiliated with the San Antonio Rampage. If this relocation occurs, the likely possibility is that the two NHL team swap AHL affiliations.
Of course all of this is mere conjecture, so until the NHL announces a settlement to this matter (either keeping the team in Glendale and selling the team to Hulsizer or moving it to Winnipeg and selling to True North Sports & Entertainment), we’ll all be playing armchair commissioner……
Kenneth Williams
April 21st, 2011
9:02 pm
First of all, as a hockey fan from Winnipeg I must say I’m impressed with the participation and content of this blog. I wish more people around here understood that there are good hockey fans in Atlanta and other areas south of the border.
While I would love to have NHL hockey return in any way possible, truth be told I would only want the Jets, (Coyotes), back if it’s done my way of relocation. We know the heartache of losing a team I don’t wish that on anyone. I’d even feel bad for the fans in Arizona though I’d be thrilled none the less.
I hope the Thrashers get their ownership problems taken care of and you get people in there who love the sport and are willing to do whatever it takes to bring in a winning team. Anyone who thinks that hockey can not make it there doesn’t know what they speak of. We all saw how you packed your arena four and five years ago and it can happen again.
Best of luck to you and maybe we can welcome in the Thrashers to Winnipeg next winter. Not as our team, but as a visiting opponent.
Cheers.
World Be Free
April 21st, 2011
9:07 pm
Yup, Robataille
kracker
April 21st, 2011
10:53 pm
Thank you Kenneth Williams for your kind and sensible comments. People here in Atlanta already know the pain of losing a franchise and we of course don’t want it to happen again.
I wasn’t much of a hockey fan back when the Jets played in Winnipeg. I started following the Flames toward the end of their stay in Atlanta. For most of their time here I was working in other cities. When they relocated to Calgary, hockey sort of fell out of my world. I went to a couple of Knights games when they were here before the Thrashers were formed.
I began following the Thrashers in 2001. First casually on TV, then going to a few games and gradually increasing my attendance to STH level. If we can keep our young players together, I really think the Thrashers are on the verge of breaking out into a bonified playoff participant and into a contender following that.
Getting new and committed hockey owners is a huge key to the success of the franchise here in Atlanta, of course, but I will support the team even if these same crappy owners remain in charge. The players ocassionally rise above the moribund state of the franchise and those times are simply fantastic!
I do wish the people there in Winnipeg success in getting another team. Hopefully it is not my team but what is going to happen will happen. All I can do is support the team and hope for the best. I have bought my tickets for next season but I would feel better if we have some good news soon about these new owners we keep hearing about.
Joe Friday
April 21st, 2011
11:13 pm
Most over-rated goalie in hockey. Hope they have the tissue ready for poor Roberto. Woot!
Brendan
April 22nd, 2011
1:38 am
I guess I’m unclear as to why there’s a deadline for the Coyotes to move. Is the lease up on the arena? Is the arena ‘unfit’ for public use? Look at the Coyotes since the NHL took control over them. That’s right. Just like in Buffalo, when the league took control of the Sabres, the Coyotes have had success. A possible conclusion?: The NHL does a pretty good job of running an NHL franchise.
Many here, on this very blog, have begged the league to take control of the Thrashers AWAY from the “HeptaCluster.” (Copyright Poster Brendan, 2010-11, U.S. Library of Congress, all rights reserved.) I am such a voice. It’s amazing that the Coyotes didn’t become some 55-point bottom-feeder, picking 1st overall, lo these past few seasons, with this kind of dark cloud hanging over their head. Nope, instead … under Dave Tippett, the Coyotes put together some of the very best seasons. The one thing they didn’t do … was win a playoff series.
As Red Light points out above, in the entire history of the Jets/Coyotes, they are 2-18, with their only wins coming at the expense of the Calgary Flames. In fairness to Winnipeg, they had to endure the Gretzky-led Oiler dynasty years of the 1980’s. Many Jets fans opined that, “The only reason we’re even in the league … is to give Gretzky’s Oilers an opponent to beat in the 1st round of the playoffs.” I can understand the sentiment. Small market Canadian city … trying to fend off other markets spending $60 to $80 million during the 80’s. That’s tough. The Jets would have done fairly well under a hard salary cap, 20-years ago. I rooted for Phoenix these past few seasons. I hope they can find a way to stay in Arizona. They gave it their best shot.
Brendan
April 22nd, 2011
1:56 am
Congrats to the Bruins for coming back 3 times to win in Overtime over Montreal, to once again, send Habs fans home crying. Series tied, 2-2. Let’s just see if a home team can win a game in this series. If not, then Montreal will take the series, back in Boston, in Game 7.
SJS took a major step forward to advancing to the CSF. The L.A. Kings must look to Game Three as to why they let this series get away from them. Still not over, however.
Segue, speaking of ‘not over,’ the Chicago Blackhawks have now outscored the Canucks by a margin of 12-2 in the past two games. So, instead of being swept, they’re “headed back to that same ol’ place, sweet home, Chicago.” (Copyright, BluesBrothers, all rights reserved.)
I still say … best series so far … Nashville/Anaheim. Boston/Montreal is climbing the ladder, however. Philly/Buffalo is a good one, too. For the Sabres, it’ll take two more shutouts by Miller to advance to the next round. Buffalo has to find the back of the twine more often. Pittsburgh/TB is teetering on the edge. Let’s see if the Penguins closeout. And if the Capitals can eliminate the Rangers in Five. For anyone actually watching the Rangers/Capitals series, it’s been rather good, also. Rangers cannot let a 3-goal lead evaporate in a playoff game. That was the turning point, along with allowing Ovechkin to score in the 3rd period of Game One, to force OT. (Semin won it.)
When you’re running a marathon … and you see a sign that reads, “detour,” that shaves 2-3 miles off the race … you TAKE IT!! Look at Vancouver. Now, the Canucks may win the Stanley Cup anyway, but their potential 28-mile race is now stands at 27. In the playoffs, you must closeout your elimination games. The owners and the league might like all the series to go seven games, but the players, (who aren’t getting paid, by the way,) do not. Time off, during the playoffs, is a luxury. Vancouver has squandered that luxury. The Red Wings have not. We talk about how Detroit is older now. Well, they’re getting their well-deserved rest for Round II. Detroit may be headed to the CF, and beyond, this year. Billy Jaffe picked the Red Wings to win the Cup this year. It’s an ever-present threat. I think, since 1993, Vegas has listed Detroit as one of the four teams most likely to win the Cup, every year. Thud. What a run, for that franchise.
Cornbread
April 22nd, 2011
2:54 am
Any mention of the “watchdog group” Goldwater Institute should also be prefaced with “Conservative”.
There’s your “Free-Enterprise” at work. Free for American companies, American jobs, and American teams to flee free of America to foreign lands while American fans (i.e. consumers) pay the price.
Wake Up Phoenix and Atlanta! It’s about local and national civic pride! Winnipeg and Quebec City – two cities with MSA’s less than 750,000 – have it. Do you really think American cities of 4 and 5 million+ don’t have it or can’t make hockey work?
Get it done. Keep the teams, jobs, consumers, and pride in America.
World Be Free
April 22nd, 2011
7:10 am
Kenneth Williams, welcome to the best hockey blog in North America. You are alot more civil than some of your fellow citizens, many of whom have ventured here with a different tone. Feel free to join us for conversation anytime.
So I missed the Vancouver-Chicago game last night, was abit shocked by the score. Looks like the Nucks have not found a way to finish the job and now the Black Hawks have some life. Game 6 of this series will tell us whether Vancouver has the right stuff to go all the way here. A Vancouver/San Jose CF may turn out to be very interesting indeed! And FYI, I am not counting out the Red Wings-just not that foolish.
Montreal/Boston never fail to entertain, 2 very good teams that hate each other sooo much. A former Hab scores the game winner. Michael Ryder will be available this summer, a possible Thrasher pickup?
glovesave29
April 22nd, 2011
7:26 am
Vignault really screwed the pooch last night. If the Hawks continue the momentum and send the Canucks home, I have to put some of the burden on his shoulders. After getting shelled in game 4, he should have given Luongo a very short leash. Two goals in 24 seconds? Getting handcuffed on the first Hossa goal? GONE! I yank him right then and there to fight another day. I can time out and REAM the team for lackadaisical play. Get them angry and ticked off while the final result is still in doubt. By the time the third goal was in, we all knew it was over.
KW – thanks for redeeming the good people of Winnipeg. If you look back as some of the topics on this blog over the past few months, quite a few trolls have besmirched the name of your city. I for one can’t imagine getting joy in others pain, but there are those out there who do.
Cornbread – yes, Goldwater is conservative…but does that really matter? Their point is correct. The parking lot in question CANNOT support the bond that was being proposed. The tax payers were / are going to get HOSED. IF Hulsizer is so wealth, then buy the damn team. Investments have risk…deal with it. Plus I cannot see him spending $$$ on salaries as it is apparent all he cares about is mitigating risk. Team will suck, place will be empty and stuck in Glendale. To me this seems like a recipe for disaster.
Rumor Has It
April 22nd, 2011
7:42 am
I have heard a rumor that an offer was tendered to ASG for the Hawks, the Thrashers, and Philips operating rights, but it was rejected. I hope this is true, and a legitimate offer, for if so, then ASG would not have a case to ask the NHL for permission to relocate the Thrash.
Red Light
April 22nd, 2011
8:48 am
JF: Vancouver’s problem last night had nothing whatsoever to do with Luongo. Their defense in the neutral and defensive zones in the first 30 minutes of the game was inexcusable. Canucks are proving that winning a 4th game in a series is the toughest thing to do, and the Hawks are proving that they still have the heart of a champion. Great theater!
You could see it coming last night…the Habs and Jacques Martin simply don’t have what it takes to win. I could be proven wrong, but I think Boston will win this series as predicted. Peverley was in the thick of the comeback for Boston…good for him.
Joe Friday
April 22nd, 2011
9:24 am
“Vancouver’s problem last night had nothing whatsoever to do with Luongo.”
Yes, it most certainly did, he was atrocious on those early goals and it put his club on their heels . . . you know have confidence in the goaler and all the skaters stop skating their system. It’s why the Canucklehead fans, and writers all over Canada, are calling for Vignault to start Corey in Game 6.
12-2 over the past two games? Yeah, I guess the Hawks have a little life. lol.
As I’ve said for years and said before this series started, Luongo is the most over-rated goalie in the league. All talent, no head or heart, goaltending is 75% mental and the other 50% talent . . .
jimbo
April 22nd, 2011
9:28 am
Many worldwide professional sports teams have had group ownership. The keys to success are a good, solid strategic plan, the financial strength to fund it out and a good management team to carry it out. I would like to see a classy professional like Glavine involved. He would add credibility to any group that he decides is worthy of his support.
Alan R.
April 22nd, 2011
9:31 am
The collapse in progress from Vancouver has been quite entertaining to watch.
Only reason I’m cheering the Hawks on is because my personal hatred for Vancouver currently exceeds my hatred for Chicago.
Joe Friday
April 22nd, 2011
9:38 am
Roberto’s last two games: 9.73 GAA and .726 Save%, clearly it has nothing whatsoever to do with him.
Hawks have found their stride and are completely in his head, once again, and now he has to face the Chicago crowd. They better start stocking the clubhouse with kleenex!
glovesave29
April 22nd, 2011
9:57 am
I ALWAYS support goalies…often to a fault. I know how tough the job is. The key to being a goalie is a short memory. Forget what just happened and move forward. Luongo is doubting himself. Look how his glove hand is dropping and he’s moving forward on his toes. His shoulders are relaxed and back…none of these are good signs. He is in survival mode…and he, the Nucks and the Hawks all know it. Give the guy a night off. Let the team recover and move on (if possible). Pulling a goalie is not only to “punish” the netminder. Its often done to spark the team. Remind them they have a part in the GAA too. This team is damaged. A presidents trophy season hangs in the balance. It’s actually in Vancouvers favor the next game is on the road. Get out of the pressure cooker and negative energy at home, spend some time together, work out the kinks and go after the defending champ.
glovesave29
April 22nd, 2011
10:00 am
jimbo – you make a good point. Look at how the group works for the Falcons. There is one majority owner…but those who join the group go through a lengthy interview and due diligence process prior to admittance. The ASG, on the other hand, was hastily constructed with persons who did not know each other and had no common thread amongst them. It was a disaster waiting to happen.
Smoothie
April 22nd, 2011
10:08 am
THIS. 20 times over!
“Cornbread – yes, Goldwater is conservative…but does that really matter? Their point is correct. The parking lot in question CANNOT support the bond that was being proposed. The tax payers were / are going to get HOSED. IF Hulsizer is so wealth, then buy the damn team. Investments have risk…deal with it. Plus I cannot see him spending $$$ on salaries as it is apparent all he cares about is mitigating risk. Team will suck, place will be empty and stuck in Glendale. To me this seems like a recipe for disaster.”
I wish people would stop referring to pro sports leagues as “free market” enterprises as they are much closer to oligarchical, collusionary cartels. Civic pride gets crushed under the weight of the financial pressures which arise when would-be owners start posturing and pleading with the city to “do their civic duty” to create a subsidized form of public assistance for someone (or group of someones) who should be wealthy enough to buy the damn thing themselves and take on the risk…that’s a “free” market.
Bobby Hull's Toupee
April 22nd, 2011
10:09 am
Glavine lost my respect years ago with his MLB players union rhetoric and nominal money grab move to the hated Mets. As a former STH, he’ll get it all back with interest if he can help free the Thrashers from ASG & their waddellian curse on Atlanta hockey.
Phil Foley - Atlanta Thrashers Examiner
April 22nd, 2011
10:29 am
Hey guys. I don’t think I actually had the round Hull was drafted in the first Glavine piece. I just had that Glavine was drafted ahead of Hull. In any event, it’s right now.
As far as this Thrashers situation goes. Call me crazy (and many in Winnipeg do), but I can’t imagine a scenario where the league can give its blessing to move the Thrashers to Winnipeg at this part of the process this late in the game this season.
You still have too many interested parties kicking the tires on the team to keep them in Atlanta. Glavine coming out of the woodwork helps bring credibility that there is a viable market here. And just like in the days when we were interviewing him down in the locker room with the Braves after a loss, he has a very good idea of what’s gone wrong (in this case with the Thrashers) and the correct remedies to fix it.
I found Bettman’s comments to TSN radio more telling to how far the NHL has gone to keep teams in markets. In his snide NY-way that pisses off just about everyone in Canada, he managed to spin the whole keeping the team in Phoenix saga is like what the league tried to do for Edmonton (worked) and Winnipeg (failed).
If you look at history, you’ll see that when teams move, there’s usually a lot more grumbling about relocation than one comment by one owner that things are “urgent.” There’s usually a bunch of grumbling, overt threats of moving, an attempted shakedown of the city the stadium is in, a claim no one wants to buy the team and some more hemming and hawing with a concrete deadline before you bolt.
In Atlanta (possibly because of contractual reasons), you have Waddell go on the record pretty much saying they want to keep the team here. You had Levenson pretty much telling Charles Odum of the AP the same thing yesterday. But at the same time, you have employees who as C-Viv reported were told of a possible sale and move. That kinda doesn’t make sense, but it’s the ASG we’re talking about.
With that said, the best thing for Thrashers fans is for this Glendale/Goldwater Institute/Coyotes thing to just drag on as long as possible so it becomes nearly impossible for Winnipeg to ever make an offer. Let them go down to the wire there while things shake out with buyers in Atlanta.
Trust me, there are plenty of really rich folks out there looking to buy sports teams that have made offers on teams only to fall short. A sale, particularly for the Hawks, Thrashers and Philips Arena can work. And when all is said and done, if a sale for all three is effectuated, all of those yearly operating losses for the ASG will turn into a net profit for this blog’s favorite bunch of seven owners. In more instances than not, sports team owners make their money when they sell the team they own, not when they are running the teams on a day-to-day basis.
glovesave29
April 22nd, 2011
10:42 am
“With that said, the best thing for Thrashers fans is for this Glendale/Goldwater Institute/Coyotes thing to just drag on as long as possible so it becomes nearly impossible for Winnipeg to ever make an offer. Let them go down to the wire there while things shake out with buyers in Atlanta.”
Sorry – completely disagree. The folks at True North are not billionaires because they put all of their eggs in one basket. They have contingency plans. They have contingency plans for the contingency plans. I am sure they are working the possible deal on all fronts.
Red Light
April 22nd, 2011
10:57 am
Did you know that the Montreal Canadiens once thought about relocating to Cleveland?
ZAvalanche
April 22nd, 2011
11:01 am
Very surprised by Vancouver game last night, hope some of you got to see it. Every single NHL coach will tell you the 4th win in the playoffs is always the hardest because the opposition is extremely desperate and plays balls-to-the-walls – so to speak. I still don’t think that Chi can fend them off.
Red Light
April 22nd, 2011
11:02 am
Hossa’s first goal…Luongo’s fault? Maybe.
Keith’s first goal, Luongo’s fault? Great screen.
Kane’s goal, Luongo’s fault? No way.
Hossa’s second goal, Luongo’s fault? Breakaway, great shot.
Phil Foley - Atlanta Thrashers Examiner
April 22nd, 2011
11:05 am
Glovesave29 – If you believe the reporting, which has been pretty much uniform that whatever side-deal that TSNE may or may not have with the league has the Coyotes getting an offer first and the Thrashers if and only if the Coyotes deal, falls through. If the Yotes deal runs to the last minute, good luck getting everything approved for a Thrashers sale ESPECIALLY when one NHL team will have to go from the West to the East to accommodate a Winnipeg Thrashers team. That alone could consume a few days of debate.
Your drop dead date is around the middle/end of June when the new schedule comes out. The longer the PHX drama drags the better off for the Thrashers playing here next year.
glovesave29
April 22nd, 2011
11:21 am
I’d say the date is even sooner, as it not only affects NHL scheduling, but the AHL too.
I don’t buy much of anything coming out of Canada these days. They have been whipped into a fervor and they are blinded by such. Even media members interviewing Bettman on 590 The Fan in Toronto were not above it. They tried ad nauseum to trip up the commish…to no avail
Rawhide
April 22nd, 2011
11:50 am
This is your official 10-minute Ranallo Warning. New blog to be posted at noon.
Oh…and it’s always nice to have Atlanta Thrashers Examiner’s Phil Foley pay us a visit!