Bogosian not stressing over season, rift with Torchetti
To say that Thrashers defenseman Zach Bogosian had a down year would be quite the understatement. In his third NHL season he seemed to have slumped in almost all aspects of his game.
Offensively he scored only 5 goals, down from the 10 of last year despite duplicating the same 155 shots on goal total. His 17 overall points were 2 fewer than what he put up in his rookie campaign even though he played in 24 more games now as opposed to then.
But it was on the defensive end of the ice where his game seemed to take an even greater step backwards from his first two NHL seasons. Bogosian finished the year with a –27 rating, which continues his downward tend in that category. In his rookie campaign he posted a +11 then followed it up with a –18 last season.
Zach Bogosian looks to put this past season behind him, as well as the rift between himself and associate coach John Torchetti. Bogosian scored 5 goals, 12 assists and was a –27 in the 2010-11 season (Photo/Michelle Rivers)
Of the 891 players who suited up for games this year, only four posted worse +/- numbers. Of those four, only Ottawa’s Erik Karlsson averaged more time on ice than Bogosian’s 22:24 TOI.
All this, even though he did go eight consecutive games last fall where he did not record a negative rating.
One positive for Bogosian is that he found a way to stay out of the sin-bin this time around. After accruing 47 and 61 PIM during his first two seasons, he only spent 29 minutes in the box last year. There were 12 minor penalties whistled against him and he participated in one fight.
The exact cause of his off year has been the topic of many discussions here in the Thrasherville blogosphere. One theory has been the apparent conflict between Bogosian and associate coach John Torchetti, the man responsible for the team’s defensemen. And the inability to meet Torchetti’s expectations led to a string of three games where he watched the game from the comfort of the press box.
In this February article posted by ESPN.com’s Scott Burnside, head coach Craig Ramsay admitted Bogosian was experiencing some growing pains and indeed he was having a tough time living up to the coaching staff’s standards. But he doesn’t feel Bogosian was being treated unfairly.
“I don’t think that John is mean to him”, Ramsay explained. “I don’t think he’s overly vocal with him. I think John is just trying to do what he thinks is best for Zach and for everyone.”
“I trust John to pass on the appropriate information in the appropriate way. I think misunderstandings occurred that have been dealt with and I see nothing but good things”.
As for the relationship between player and coach, Bogosian was asked recently during the end-of-season media gathering if the problems with Torchetti could have had anything to do with his performance. In his response, the 6’-3” native of Massena, New York did not dismiss the friction between the two. But he also wasn’t quite ready to blame it all on the clash of personalities either.
”Yeah, it was a different feeling obviously”, Bogosian replied. “I had never had that done to me since at least juniors [but] it’s part of the game”.
”It’s tough to pinpoint exactly what that was”, he continued. “I mean there is a lot of things you could say about it, but it’s not something that I shoved into the closet and didn’t think about. But, it’s not something that I stressed over a lot either”.
“It was something that was there in your mind, but you try not to worry about it too much.”
Whatever problems he might be experiencing with Torchetti, Bogosian said he simply had to try and apply the lessons to his game and move forward. He said, “You just can’t look too much into it, work hard every day and hope for the best. That’s what I did and fortunately it worked out for the best during the last half of the year”.
“I think the second half of the year I skated a lot better than I have in the last couple of years. I definitely felt I had a good stride out there and used it to my advantage”.
But what’s done is done, and Bogosian knows there nothing that can be done about the season that’s now in the review mirror. Instead, he’s looking forward to the new campaign this fall and understands he needs to work on his game during the summer to prepare for it.
”I am just looking at going into the summer with the approach of being a better player. I want to be the best player that I can possibly be next year.”
Looking to improve upon this past season would do more than just put him back on track regarding his development, but can also affect his bank account. As well as celebrating his 22nd birthday next summer, Bogosian will also be looking to work out a new contract with the Thrashers as he’s scheduled to become a restricted free agent at that time.
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115 comments Add your comment
Alan R.
April 14th, 2011
12:08 pm
Here’s to hoping he can put together a better season next year than the one he had the past couple years. I hate seeing him not succeed, or not play to his potential.
He needs to be better. We need him to be better.
World Be Free
April 14th, 2011
12:09 pm
From the previous blog-
Red Light-the interesting thing about Poile is that he did his research and made a decision on his long term coach long before his team hit the ice. He found a coach with no NHL experience that played the style the Predators wanted to play and stuck with the same coach since Day One. Trotz’s longevity in Nashville is of great significance than Lindy Ruff’s stay in Buffalo, an established NHL team. The Predators lose players to free agency every season and never miss a beat. Poile rarely makes the same mistake twice.
Occasional ownership instability has had little effect on the on-ice product.
This is a franchise that thrives in a non-traditional hockey market. It can be done here.
SomaAtl95
April 14th, 2011
12:14 pm
Part of me thinks he wants a trade, however its hard to trade a player with diminished value, unless we want another 7th round draft pick.
Smoothie
April 14th, 2011
12:18 pm
Who cares about his skating stride? When is he gonna learn how to play defense in the slot / crease area? That’s all that should matter going forward. To hell with the offensive side of the game, kid has a sawed-off shotgun for a slapshot and I’d rather him not worry about offense outside of keeping the puck in the zone on the PP and supporting the rush every once in awhile.
Smoothie
April 14th, 2011
12:18 pm
Oh yeah, excellent piece Bill!!
Sage of Bluesland
April 14th, 2011
12:20 pm
I’m going to be a Joe-Bob-Friday-Revisionist-Historian and call for the head of Torchetti….It’s HIS fault our defense is so bad….FIRE THE ASSISTANT COACH and just you watch our defense improve!
We’ll make the playoffs once we fire Torch…I knew it all along….
(snicker)
World Be Free
April 14th, 2011
12:21 pm
It amazes me that a rift between coach and player can fester so long and not be addressed by the head coach. Especially when Bogosian’s play so clearly regressed as the season progressed.
I keep referring to plans and visions, both on and off the ice. So what is the plan to get Zach Bogosian’s play back to the level of a top 4 NHL defenseman, which is where it should be? Forget the fact that the kid was rushed to the NHL, he is here and his progress needs to be planned or it will never happen.
Do you limit his offensive chances and have him focus on learning defense? No more rushing the puck, use the boards and concentrate on breakout passes to the blueline and beyond. This is what should have been done 2 years ago.
Or do the Thrashers go out and get a veteran defenseman that can stay at home and compensate for Bogosian’s defensive lapses, allowing Zach to still move up and contribute to the offense? There are other options, but there has to be a plan not just sit back and hope the situation gets better.
Thomas Magnum
April 14th, 2011
12:37 pm
If Bogosian doesn’t get it together next season we are going to have look into trading him. The guy couldn’t have been much worse this year.
World Be Free
April 14th, 2011
12:52 pm
Let him watch tapes of Luke Schenn-
Schenn is the same age Bogo is, drafted behind him and clearly ahead of where Bogosian is in progressing as an NHL defenseman. He sticks with the basics, which is where Bogo needs to be.
Sorry to repeat what I have said before, but it is what it is.
ZAvalanche
April 14th, 2011
12:53 pm
Every player goes through rough stretches and doesn’t always get along with coaches. I don’t know how Torch treated ZBo off the ice, but it is obvious that his system of running offensive-coached defense men didn’t work. Same problem in CO. There is a reason you are a defense man – you PLAY DEFENSE. Scoring should not be your goal (no pun intended). It should be +/- and minutes played per game.
I think ZBo will eventually turn out, and as many have posted, it takes at least 4 years for a D man to mature into the game. Maybe the problem is Torch, I don’t know. I still think Buffy needs to be a center and that Thrashy needs to have more of a hand in their minor affiliates. Draft some D, hell, trade up for a chance at Larsson.
I also think Thrashy is missing a solid PF. One with skills and speed. Ummmm, Buffy? He is right there, he is big, has great hands, quick. Why not put him in as a PF? Thoughts?
GaVaHokie
April 14th, 2011
12:56 pm
The reason it dragged out, and probably why it was never addressed by Ramsay was the Coaching staff kept telling Zach the same thing over and over again, but it wasn’t sinking in… one thing inparticular that Darren Elliot pointed out not too long ago was Zach never turning to the inside of the ice to cut down a player who was beating him to the outside like you’re supposed to… it was little things like that. I don’t think it was anything grandeous in regards to joining the rush, or staying back more.
GaVaHokie
April 14th, 2011
12:58 pm
To finish my thought… I could see Ramsay being the type of Coach to let Torchetti yell at him ‘until he gets it’.
Joe Friday
April 14th, 2011
1:21 pm
“but it wasn’t sinking in”
Hokie has it here. And I can’t remember who was onto it at the start of this season, but Bogo’s problem is that the boy just isn’t bright. You have to have situational awareness and good anticipation in the league, especially as a dman, and he just doesn’t have it. You can’t teach smart.
Big Wally
April 14th, 2011
1:28 pm
Bogo is a turnover waiting to happen. The Thrashers could have put a lounge chair on the ice and had a better defense than with Bogo.
hockeygoon79
April 14th, 2011
1:30 pm
Much of the season, Bogosian looked like someone who just woke up and found himself in the middle of a freeway. Confused, bewildered and frightened he was.
My hope is that Ramsay, Torch or someone can get through to him and quick. The kid has all the right physical tools and could be a real asset if properly trained and developed.
GaVaHokie
April 14th, 2011
1:47 pm
Bogo’s problem is that the boy just isn’t bright
Eh, I wouldn’t go that far… He just experienced his first ever NHL coaching change. I just think he’s young and hasn’t had a ‘fundamentals’ Coach quite like Ramsay and Torchetti. He played two professional years under a willy nilly John Anderson style. He got comfortable and now he’s being knocked down a peg or two.
More is expected from him… he’s had a lot more being THROWN at him, and it’ll take time to put it all together.
I think nothing but good can come from a Coach telling him to “do it again… again… again”.
Mat"T"
April 14th, 2011
1:54 pm
I agree that there is all this untapped potential in this guy, but time is running out on being patient. I truly believe the key to Blueland’s success next year is to keep 95% of the roster intact and work on developing each and every player in the current system. We need one or two marque offensive threat’s and I think we will be in Philips Arena this time next year hoping to advance to the semifinals. LET’S GO THRASHERS!!!!!
R. Stroz
April 14th, 2011
1:56 pm
Joe Bob Friday – That would be yours truely that noticed a severe lack of acuity on Bogosian’s part. However, in all fairness, there were others as well.
An interesting side bar, when the news of Torch and Bogo’s rocky marriage went public in the Canadian press, I read several articles about how numerous scouts, although impressed with Bogosian’s size, were extremely concerned over his “hockey sense.” At the draft, I explicitly remember St. Louis being concerned that the Thrashers were going to pick Pietrangelo instead of Bogosian. That was my first tip that the Thrashers “wonderful” scouting staff had missed something….again.
blade15
April 14th, 2011
1:57 pm
Great article !!! – Bogosian has a bad attitude which he takes on the ice with him . my opinion for what its worth is he doesn’t want to be here, he’s made several comments about the fans and crowd. His lack of defense on the ice as well as his ego needed to be benched , unfortunately i still don’t think its “sunk ” in .
KLS1
April 14th, 2011
2:25 pm
He has never had anyone yell at him since juniors…give me a break. He tried not to worry about it…is he the victim here?
It worked out for the best the last half of year? What? Is he saying he played well down the stretch?
I know I have been tough on Bogo but we have a problem here people…and its what I didn’t hear in the article that concerns me most, like:
I learned what the coaches want from me and I plan to continue to work on that to get better.
Or I am disappointed in how I played this year and look to make strides to be an overall more complete player next year.
A little humility and accountability would go a long way. After how rough they were on Bergie I gotta believe he will be moved prior to next season if they can get the right deal.
Smoothie
April 14th, 2011
2:37 pm
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/the-bettman-ultimatum-119839174.html
A little good news? Kinda sorta.
blade15
April 14th, 2011
2:41 pm
KLS1 – EXACTLY my point !!!!
Red Light
April 14th, 2011
2:42 pm
I’m sorry guys, but I subscribe to the camp that first looks for physical ability, particularly when looking at a under-21 prospect, regardless of where he is playing. You may not be able to teach “smart,” “awareness” or “anticipation” but even the dense can learn positional play, safe areas where to go with the puck, when to gamble and when not to take chances.
Yes, the kid has played 199 games over the past three seasons and should have wised up by now, but there are just so few kids with the size, speed and strength Bogo has at his age. In case you have forgotten, he only played two years of junior hockey and is one of only three defensemen drafted by the Thrashers ever to play more than 100 games for the club.
Maybe you have to look back at Bogo’s and Kulda’s development (teammates in Peterborough) under coach Vince Mallette (former Ottawa 67’s assistant under Brian Kilrea and fired after 2 years with the Petes), and then wonder why Bogo only spent five games in the AHL with Chicago while Kulda has played 197 games for the Wolves. Steve Downie is the only other player from either of those two seasons in Peterborough to play in the NHL.
KLS1…you may have missed the last quote: “”I am just looking at going into the summer with the approach of being a better player. I want to be the best player that I can possibly be next year.”
Smoothie
April 14th, 2011
2:45 pm
KLS1 – KLS gonna rock you! Great post my man. Perhaps it’s a lack of maturity or just his indelicate expression of thought, but I’m much more worried about how this saga is gonna play out compared to my worry (in the meantime) over potential relocation to Canada.
KLS1
April 14th, 2011
2:48 pm
Here are some facts behind the delusion.
Pre all star break he was -12
Post all star break he was -15
March was his worst month at -10
In wins for the season he was only +7 but in games they lost he was -34.
KLS1
April 14th, 2011
2:56 pm
ok…I feel like Torch now, will back off.
Thanks for the update Smoothie. Sadly I kinda hope the Glendale deal falls apart and take some pressure off us relocating.
ZAvalanche
April 14th, 2011
3:03 pm
Tonight’s games.
Montreal at Boston – this is going to be a grudge match but I don’t see the Canadians pulling this one out. Never know though, spite and revenge are serious emotions.
I think that Philly is pissed at losing the #1 seed, sorry Buffalo, you might be in for an ugly game.
San Jose is going to mow LA. Without some of their stars LA just doesn’t have the horses to swim with the Sharks.
GaVaHokie
April 14th, 2011
3:05 pm
At the draft, I explicitly remember St. Louis being concerned that the Thrashers were going to pick Pietrangelo instead of Bogosian. That was my first tip that the Thrashers “wonderful” scouting staff had missed something….again.
Uh… I don’t recall that at all… I remember the discussion being more like this.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3448428
I remember the majority of the people on this blog wanting Nikita Filatov anyway.
GaVaHokie
April 14th, 2011
3:05 pm
Let us take a look back at the Red Line Report shall we…
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/woodlief/2008-06-05-draft-defensemen_N.htm
ZAvalanche
April 14th, 2011
3:11 pm
Nice link GaVa, hindsight is 20-20 right?
Smoothie
April 14th, 2011
3:19 pm
Nikita Filatov??! On this blog?? Perhaps a few, but seemed like the consensus was a D-man, just a matter of which one.
R. Stroz
April 14th, 2011
3:21 pm
GaVaHokie – I’m refering to the actual conversation at the St. Louis draft table on DRAFT DAY. Their table was mic’d up and they expressed concern that Atlanta was going to take Pietrangelo instead of Bogosian.
LAC
April 14th, 2011
3:25 pm
Question is… Can the team stand another season like the past one ? If so NO other team would want him and his value in a trade would be zilch.
He needs to be moved this summer. We have some depth at defense and I feel Postma could replace zach without a hitch. We need scoring, simple, trade zach before he kills his value to Atlanta.
A “smart” GM would usher him out of town for some scoring, but remember our GM is living inside a light bulb when it comes to putting a WINNER on the ice and the post season recap I saw was…
LAME !
World Be Free
April 14th, 2011
3:26 pm
I am not going to question how smart Bogo is or isn’t. Truth is, even a smart, young player will be tainted if he is not handled properly. I go back to his age and what has been expected of Bogo before his 20th birthday. Pietrangelo was left in juniors just like Tyler Myers for additional seasoning.
Bogosian was tossed on the ice like a Detroit squid from day one.
No plan, no vision, little support= Bogosian as he is today.
ZAvalanche
April 14th, 2011
3:33 pm
LAC – I don’t think we could get much for ZBo at this point. Put him in the minors for a season and let him get some leadership time.
Hoof Arted
April 14th, 2011
3:41 pm
Don Waddell was sitting at his desk recently looking at the stats of the 2 players picked 3rd and 4th overall in the 2008 draft. He then smacked himself on the forehead and cried out…
“I could have had a Pietrangelo”!
ZAvalanche
April 14th, 2011
3:54 pm
OK, after a piece by Adrian Dater saying that Adam Foote’s # should be retired before Forsberg’s, I offer you this little ditty, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRtrQ1YrCzw . If you aren’t in hockey playoff mode already, this should do it for you. Talk about a rarity, watch how he hits and moves. Amazing. Thrashy needs a player like this.
Twisted Wrister
April 14th, 2011
4:10 pm
It suffices to say, Don Waddell has smacked his forehead so many times that he has incurred permanent brain damage.
Rawhide
April 14th, 2011
4:11 pm
Congrats to Jim Slater who was nominated by his teammates for this year’s King Clancy Memorial Trophy.
This award is presented annually by the NHL to the player who best exemplifies leadership qualities on and off the ice and has made a noteworthy humanitarian contribution in his community.
KLS1
April 14th, 2011
4:45 pm
ZAv – nice tribute…Foppa was a beast. I still wear #21 in his honor.
glovesave29
April 14th, 2011
4:58 pm
ZA – Bogo cannot go down without clearing waivers.
LAC – you keep touting Postma and Kulda…but what do you really know about them? Right now they are just a couple of Dmen in the AHL with little to none in the way of NHL experience.
THE RED JERSEY IS OFFICIALLY RETIRED. At least I can report some good news regarding this team!
ZAvalanche
April 14th, 2011
6:14 pm
Ahh, that is right Glove, forgot about that.
KLS1 – I will NEVER wear another player’s jersey and I am fortunate enough to have Swedish cousins who got me a MODO, full team signed, Foppa jersey
Matt from MN
April 14th, 2011
6:41 pm
Zach NEEDS to be stressing out, as this was a RFA year for him, he did terrible and his future is very, very murky right now. I think he’s got a ton of talent, but he has got to get his act together and soon.
tommy2tone
April 14th, 2011
8:58 pm
Poor Zach got yelled at. So lets fire the coaches…….spoiled brat!
Hokie P. Clisters
April 14th, 2011
9:09 pm
Hokie’s quick fix for 2011-2102. Put Buff on a line with Kane and Bermie. I like the sound of that line. Pair Bogo back with Toby. See if it light’s a fire under his Bogo’s rear – and its probably our last chance to salvage this kid. At least experiment with it during the preseason. Does Buff want goals or wins? We know Buff wants to win. Plus Buff is stuck with us for a while so we need to at least try it out! We all know we ain’t gonna get any real help (top 6 forward or top 5 defenseman) with our owners so we need to think outside the box.
Flames
April 14th, 2011
9:24 pm
Zach will be fine… He is a good kid with alot of talent. The kid loves playing in Atlanta. He just can’t handle the pressure of the expectations of him. He really wants to do well here. He Just needs to mature more as a player. The kid puts to much pressure on himself. Torch treats Zach different than he does the other players. Torch needs to figure out how to reach him. Some people just don’t respond well to being yelled at everyday. That is what a good coach does. If figures out how to coach each player.
Hokie P. Clisters
April 14th, 2011
9:45 pm
Good point Flames – I hope Torch figures it out. I’d hate to lose his potential for nothing. I’m afraid if Zach leaves we would quickly forget about the Coburn fiasco. Our new Thrasher’s lament would be – “Why couldn’t we develop this kid? He’s a beast now”.
World Be Free
April 14th, 2011
10:09 pm
Flames-very well said, the kid (and he is a kid) needs to figure out the game. Giving him away would be a big mistake. It’s up to the organization to develop him, not just Torchetti.
Would the team have ruined Coburn too or did he develop in the Flyers organization?
World Be Free
April 14th, 2011
10:11 pm
Heatley gets the Sharks going
Flames
April 14th, 2011
10:35 pm
What I wouldn’t give to have Dany Heatley back.
Tom
April 14th, 2011
10:40 pm
Are our coaches and management watching the first couple of days of the Cup playoffs?
Defense wins playoff games.
It really is that simple.
KLS1
April 14th, 2011
11:16 pm
Tom we’ve got defense…Valabik, Coburn, Lehtonen, Bogosian…all top 10 first round picks. What are you complaining aboout?
LAC
April 14th, 2011
11:22 pm
Glove, remember these two guys have spent awhile in the AHL, and the games Postma played in here, he was very solid on the defensive side. Something zach is not going to be able to do.
Tom
April 14th, 2011
11:24 pm
KLS – You get the feeling that the Thrasher’s organization is like a university. Once you have enough years in the system you get tenure. Your title may change but you have a job for not withstanding your failures.
Yes, scouting department and Waddell, that is directed at you.
Brendan
April 14th, 2011
11:59 pm
What is it that Torchetti does? Special teams?
Cliff Fletcher
April 15th, 2011
7:20 am
tom///
you are totally right on when you talk about defense and winning hockey games. maybe it’s boring and not pretty, but the end result is usually favorable. at least be able to alter your play in-game to protect a lead when you have one. too many 1 and 2 goal leads given up late this season.
lac//
we have to do something with postma and kulda. there will be a point that they have too much seasoning, they might become stagnant if we leave them in chicago too long. I still believe zach will be here next season unless somebody comes along and really makes a big offer for his potential.
if dudley is going to make a move he will use his picks and defensive assets as trade bait to get a scorer.
Tony C.
April 15th, 2011
7:25 am
Eh Bogosian’s “problem” is that the kid’s just been overly blessed with TREMENDOUS physical gifts. One of those things you see in guys that are exceptionally more physically gifted than their peers like that-Lindros and his steadfast refusal to try and go through a guy he could’ve deked comes to mind-they come up playing a certain style, and have the physical tools to overcome bad habits-until you get to the NHL where every player is one of the 750 best IN THE WORLD. At that point you see the great separate themselves from the damn good-IF they are willing to change and adapt AND are receptive to coaching.
I dunno who mentioned it before, but Bogosian was quite clearly rushed to the National league, and his bad habits have been analyzed by everyone…opposing forwards know that an out-out-in deke is going to be successful more times than not… things like that. Here’s where being so physically gifted is rearing it’s head in a negative fashion-where Zach is accustomed to being able to make up for a bad angle with far-superior skating, in the NHL, he’s just a step faster, not 4 or 5…where he was accustomed to being able to push a guy off the puck with one hand, in the NHL, the guy doesn’t even budge…
It’ll be good to see him make these adjustments and hopefully absorb the “Blueliner 101″ that I’m sure they have prepared for him this summer. Too soon to call a bust? Yes. Very real possibility that he will not reach the potential he has? Indeed. Fortunately, the solution is simple and in-place; the kid needs work on positioning, breakout options, etc. all these things are teachable-his speed, shot and snarl are not.
And whoever prefers Schenn over Bogosian-Schenn’s not going to get much better than what you’re seeing right now-Bogosian could become an exceptional HOF-caliber player (please note emphasis on “could” a lot is up to this young man and those doing the teaching/coaching).
glovesave29
April 15th, 2011
7:39 am
LAC – is that really enough time to judge a player? You want to give up on a top 5 draft pick prior to his 22nd birthday based upon that? Bogo had a terrible year, no way to deny that. But this is a rash decision you are opining vs. one made sans emotions. I once heard Leo Mazzone talking about how different he had to approach Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz. Torch would be best served to sit down with Bogo and work out their differences. Go to Big Canoe or someplace for a weekend of golf. A controlled environment. Try something…anything. If it is beyond repair (which I doubt), then see what is out there in trade. We are really down on Zach – but recall the reactions nationwide when the rumours were that he was available at the deadline. My feeling is we can get more for him that many here would think…
Flames
April 15th, 2011
7:41 am
Brendan- I believe Torch is the defensive coach.
World Be Free
April 15th, 2011
7:51 am
Tony C-I use Luke Schenn as an example of what Bogosian needs to focus on to get back to basics. You are correct in stating that Schenn will not get much better than he is, but he has focused on the basics and has a better chance at improving because he is building on his skills. Bogosian has to learn the fundamentals on the defensive end so he can get everybody off his back and become an asset instead of being a liability.
Most importantly, he can build his confidence. You have to build to become good, especially if you are rushed to the NHL like Bogo is.
Red Light
April 15th, 2011
7:52 am
Pavelski’s OT winner last night for the Sharks was his fourth game-winning goal in his last 16 playoff games. He was a seventh-round pick (205th overall) in the 2003 draft.
Red Light
April 15th, 2011
7:55 am
Schenn played three years for Kelowna, made a World Juniors appearance and played in the World Championships in 2009.
Tom
April 15th, 2011
8:31 am
Cliff///
The best example of changing the philosophy is the Washington Capitols. Bruce Boudreau realized they would be a great regular season team but a bad playoff team after last season. So he broke the team down, changed the focus to a more defensive posture, lost more games than was expected, but now has a team that can go all the way.
It reminds me of Tiger Woods changing his swing to conform to his body aging. Sure you will have a down period but the long term benefit is worth it.
The Thrasher’s front office (Waddell) has always believed that scoring goals is what puts people in the seats in Atlanta. He could not be more wrong. Winning is what always has put fannies in the seats in this town.
jimbo
April 15th, 2011
8:56 am
bogo is so easy to rattle. Rush at him and he gives the puck up every time. He may have the physical tools but he certainly doesn’t have the emotional maturity to handle the pressure. And, how in the world did Ramsey let the friction between the two go on all season? Send him packing please.
Badger Bob
April 15th, 2011
9:03 am
KLS, to be the eternal optimist (and I know I’ll be ripped on from many sides for this), one could say that Valabik, Coburn, Lehtonen and Bogosian turned into Stuart, one and only playoffs, Ladd and Bogo. Just sayin…
And while we are agonizing over drafts, let’s remember Dudley’s first draft and look forward with hope: Kane, Klingberg (I missed the last game, but some of you seemed favorably impressed) and Morin (key piece in Buff trade) in the first two rounds. Then let us remember how many teams bypassed Tyler Myers… oops.
Badger Bob
April 15th, 2011
9:11 am
Interesting interview with Duds yesterday (http://thrashers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=559719&navid=DL|ATL|home). Puts some blame on the schedule. While our first half schedule sucked (way more back-to-backs than any other team – led to Pavs having fewer starts than he should have considering his hotness) and I can see January happening because of it, we should have recovered for our easy string of games in February. Can’t blame the schedule makers for that pathetic string of losses.
GaVaHokie
April 15th, 2011
9:14 am
Let’s put the Draft back into perspective… imagine what the NFL draft would look like if they drafted out of High School instead of College. These kids are 4 years younger than NFL rookies.
Cam Newton (May 1989) is a year older than Zach Bogosian (July 1990)… so Zach is about the same age as the guys getting drafted for the NFL this year.
Smoothie
April 15th, 2011
9:41 am
“but recall the reactions nationwide when the rumours were that he was available at the deadline. My feeling is we can get more for him that many here would think…”
Glove – thanks for making my point! Precisely why I want to trade him for offense. We CAN get something good. We have organizational depth on the blueline. We can’t say that about C and RW. Time to shake it up. Trade him west and bring in a Devin Setoguchi or a player of his ilk.
Smoothie
April 15th, 2011
9:47 am
Y’all would make terrible economists complaining about that “sunk cost” known as Braydon Coburn. Can we just move on? It’s irrelevant and he’s hardly the sole reason this team is stuck on 80 points and mediocrity. The transformation has begun and hopefully some of the hard lessons learned this year will have a lasting impact. I hope Bogo can turn it around but he is starting from a much deeper rut than any of our other players not named Anthony Stewart IMO. He’s gonna have to really dedicate himself to more than upper body workouts during the summer.
World Be Free
April 15th, 2011
9:52 am
Red light-you cannot substitute for good “world class” experiences.
Pavelski is a good Polish boy
R. Stroz
April 15th, 2011
10:26 am
Sunk costs are sunk. No need to compound sunk cost with more sunk cost.
ZAvalanche
April 15th, 2011
11:05 am
Is it just me or did LA vs SJ not even look like the type of hockey that is typical of a playoff game, much less the all-important game 1?
GaVaHokie
April 15th, 2011
12:00 pm
I can’t believe there were four Game 1 shutouts.
Badger Bob
April 15th, 2011
12:12 pm
GVH, those shutouts make this mock article all the more true:
http://www.sportspickle.com/news/5966/nhl-begins-its-annual-best-goalie-tournament
ZA, I couldn’t stay awake past the first period, but the Kings seriously underwhelmed me, even with Williams back and even with the refs trying ther hardest for them. Their powerplay looked like ours in the second half.
Joe Friday
April 15th, 2011
12:17 pm
“Joe Bob Friday – That would be yours truely that noticed a severe lack of acuity on Bogosian’s part. However, in all fairness, there were others as well.
An interesting side bar, when the news of Torch and Bogo’s rocky marriage went public in the Canadian press, I read several articles about how numerous scouts, although impressed with Bogosian’s size, were extremely concerned over his “hockey sense.” At the draft, I explicitly remember St. Louis being concerned that the Thrashers were going to pick Pietrangelo instead of Bogosian. That was my first tip that the Thrashers “wonderful” scouting staff had missed something….again.”
Stroz, should have remembered that was you (and yes, several others) and you’re spot on. The boy just ain’t bright and has no hockey sense, that’s not something you learn, or he would’ve learned it by now, he’s been playing hockey since what age? Sign Bieksa and move Buf up front and leave Bogosian for what he is, a #4 that can play some point on the PP.
Joe Friday
April 15th, 2011
12:19 pm
am I going to get to watch the Hawks tonight or is Versus going to fark that up again tonight? Weds. night, I had the Rangers-Caps OT on 3 different channels, with the one feed duplicated on VS, and no Hawks game. How the crap does that happen? Happy Friday!
AtlFlamesFan
April 15th, 2011
12:24 pm
Loved the Forsberg video. Thanks for the link! The guy had it all: speed, strength, passing, shooting, and boy could he hit.
World Be Free
April 15th, 2011
12:34 pm
Pietrangelo sure showed his hockey sense this season-a bright spot in the St. Louis Blues’ lineup. Good size, knows how to use it. Potentially good offensive skills, but he rarely goes deep into the opposition’s zone. Overall, good hockey skills and maturity for a young player.
Did Pietrangelo’s progression make the big trade with Colorado possible?
Badger Bob
April 15th, 2011
12:36 pm
ZA, fell asleep after the first period of SJ/LA, but the Kings did not impress me, even with Williams back and the refs doing all they could to help. Their powerplay looked as sad as ours during the second half of the season. Could have been 3-0 after the first.
Smoothie
April 15th, 2011
12:54 pm
Future decisions should not be based on previous past mistakes. Period.
If you can get good value for Bogo in the form of a RFA replacement with tons of upside (like Setoguchi), then you do it as long as you feel your blueline depth is good enough to survive his departure. And can we really get much worse than a -33, of which Zatchel was a -25??
Smoothie
April 15th, 2011
12:56 pm
…at even strength that is. Actually, he was a -27, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt by subtracting out his net with the goalie pulled. Of course, if you do the same for Buff & Enstrom, they wind up a +6 and -3, respectively.
World Be Free
April 15th, 2011
1:02 pm
The kid needs guidance. He will not get any better without it, in fact he may get worse. The fact that the rift between asst coach and player has been identified means very little. What will be done in the future to improve the relationship and advance the player?
Bogosian decided not to go to Worlds shows that he is mentally tired and probably has no confidence. There’s work to be done here.
ZAvalanche
April 15th, 2011
1:24 pm
AtlFlamesFan – you are welcome! And yes he did have it all, there is a definite reason he is my favorite of all time. He was basically the first European player to break the trend of “soft Europeans” by hitting the crap out of anybody who had the puck when he wanted it – which was always.
Too bad his style put his body in such jeopardy. He will always be my #1 favorite (sorry Sakic, Roy, Bourque, Blake, Selanne, Tkatuchk, The Great One, etc., oh yeah, and the other 19, Yzerman).
BadgerBob – yeah, that game was boring as heck. No passion or skill. I would love to see how Kopitar would have changed the game if he wasn’t taking care of a broken ankle.
BTW, for anybody interested, I read that Foote had a fractured foot (ironic right?) that he played on in his last game. Would you ever see an NFL, NBA or MLS player do that? Nope. That is why I love hockey. These guys kick-a$$ and take names.
ZAvalanche
April 15th, 2011
1:27 pm
ZBo needs to get over getting yelled at, who hasn’t been yelled at by a boss? Rammer and Torch need to figure out how to get in his head in a positive way. He has the skill – I think – but he seems to be a bit too timid when his deficiencies are made public. Buck-up camper, you will be a star.
LAC
April 15th, 2011
8:13 pm
Heck, after watching the post season wrapup I almost got sick. Then I read the DUD dudley interview, Gee Whiz, This IDIOT is in charge ??? He is no better than the “other” GM we have, you know who !!!
I almost chocked when he started reeling off how good his trades were, Yeah if we had gotten SOMETHING for Eager. And lauding all this praise on Burmistrov, AWFUL, talking about a zach contract extentision, WTF ???? Plus bring BACK so many players WE DID NOT WIN WITH ALREADY. I bet next season we don’t ge 80 points, more like 70, this team is going in reverse at HIGH speed and will be even WORST next season for sure ! Just Terrible to see !
DUD dudley Must Go !
LAC
April 15th, 2011
10:30 pm
Please read this…
This is comments from the owner of the Minnesota Wild.
NOTICE the “UPTEMPO” comments… The same has happened here
and NO playoffs, Gee This mirror’s Atlanta.
Attention DUD dudley & Pasive ramsey… The Uptempo system DOES NOT WORK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They need to read this too, But an OWNER who cares !!! And look what we have !!!!
Here it is…
”We’re going to have to show our fans by what we do in the offseason, by who we hire as a coach, by the players that we bring in that we’re going to have an exciting team next year and that we’re going to have a playoff team next year,” Leipold said.
When Richards was hired to replace Jacques Lemaire two years ago, Leipold led the message that a more uptempo, physical scheme was important not only to win but to entertain. Lemaire’s teams have long been known for their gritty, patient, conservative style.
”Jacques Lemaire’s attitude was if you win they’ll love you. A lot of people still feel the same. It is still about winning. Winning ugly is still winning. I think we all believe that,” Leipold said. ”I think we got a little bit caught up in the whole marketing uptempo stuff. It’s about winning. We don’t care how we do it.”
Fletcher expressed the same focus earlier this week when he discussed the firing of Richards, a decision in which Leipold said he had no input.
”We’re in a results-oriented business,” the general manager said. ”We’re all judged that way.”
TAKE A HINT dudley & ramsey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cliff Fletcher
April 16th, 2011
8:34 am
lac////
i noticed you use alot of caps and !!! in you posts. i guess it makes you stand out.
do you want waddell back on the job? don can coach too. i get excited just thinking about it.
Cliff Fletcher
April 16th, 2011
8:38 am
lac///
i happen to totally agree with you on the problems with th up tempo offense. the issues in minnesota totally support the need to toss it and go back to a defensive posture, no matter how boring it may be. there is just not enough talent in the league today for a team to play up tempo.
Red Light
April 16th, 2011
9:54 am
Well Cliff and LAC, if the first three days of the playoffs prove anything, it is that defense still wins games. The winning teams in the first three days of competition have allowed a total of 13 goals in 12 games, and two of the teams (Nashville and Chicago last night) accounted for six of the 13 goals.
However, in order to play solid defense, it’s best to keep the puck out of your own zone for as long as possible. That is Ramsay’s mantra except for the fact he has few puck possession types on his roster. You cannot solely rely on cycling and forechecking to apply pressure, sometimes your forwards and d-men actually have to hold onto the puck to provide others opportunities to find space. You can’t dump and chase all game long.
Here’s the big problem in my mind, if Ramsay wants to apply pressure with speed and the forecheck, banging bodies is the best way to wear opponents down. So, why is this team so reluctant to hit?
litz
April 16th, 2011
11:35 am
Excepting the end-of-season blowouts … that long run where we basically blew the season?
1-0 losses, 2-1 losses, 3-2 losses, repeated endlessly.
Best defense in the world doesn’t help you when you don’t score more than the other team.
Defense was there, folks …
World Be Free
April 16th, 2011
12:08 pm
OK Red Light, you are getting into one my favorite things – hitting! You never go wrong with a legal hit. Physical play is one of the major reasons why Pittsburgh has been able to sustain despite the losses of Malkin and Crosby. Brooks Orpik’s hit on Stamkos set the tone for Game 1 of the Pens-Caps series. The Pens are probably the most physical good team in the league today. Too many Thrashers (see Stewart) are afraid to put the body on the opposition. Birmie does not follow this trend, which makes him one of my favorite Thrashers.
Did you guys hear Darren Eliot talk about the Caps’ mid-season changes? Washington’s commitment to defense was simple-drop their forwards down lower in the defensive zone, have them play higher in the offensive zone to reduce odd man rushes. No other changes-while these change are significant since they reduced the Caps’ scoring chances, it also did the same for Washington’s opposition. Less chances for both teams, but more skill on the Caps’ side compared to more team means they will convert on more of their limited scoring chances.
LAC
April 16th, 2011
12:21 pm
Tell you what “cliffy” Keep your little childish thoughts to you own 2 year old brain… OK ?
Is that too tough to do ? I never mentioned you and don’t need to explain myself to a lowlife like you.
I add my thoughts just like everyone else here, some agree, some don’t. BUT I do not go out of my way to blast someone else for their comments, unless directed at me like YOU did, “cliffy”
So Go Away, you add nothing to the discussion here !
Sorry about that folks, but I am tired of this guy and his Crap !
Red Light is right, Defense Wins… We all would like to have seen low scoring, maybe less than exciting wins this past season. because we would likely be in the playoffs this season.
I wonder why this franchise does not understand the defensive side of the game, after three seasons of “uptempo” and being a bottom feeder in the NHL, can dudley & ramsey NOT see this ????
ZAvalanche
April 16th, 2011
1:50 pm
Heck yeah Tampa Bay, that is how your run a hockey game. Pitt’s injuries are going to cost them this series. That top line of TB is scary as hell.
I almost feel bad for Franzen for his unfortunate dive into the boards. That was a clean hit by Doan though.
ZAvalanche
April 16th, 2011
2:01 pm
LAC – I think for some teams the up-tempo style works, but it is harder to pull off than a more defensive style. I think the up-tempo style is dependent on 3 things – super skilled front 2 lines that can skate like the wind, super rough back 2 lines that can act as defensive bruisers and PK’ers, and lastly, a coaching system that teaches every player to cycle back and defend when a non-traditional scoring position jumps in the chase.
That being said, the general lack of my first requirement for an up-tempo team results in coaches going to a purely defensive system that relies on banging up the opposition and beating them tired (Paul Kariya, do you think Scott Stevens agrees with me?….. – though I have to add that after being absolutely LEVELED by Stevens, Kariya came back and totally burned Brodeur with probably the fastest wrister I have ever seen, and it was from about 20 feet out). Sorry for that diatribe. Anyhow, in my opinion, and please let me know if anybody disagrees, it is easier to coach defensive schemes and some of the skills that the top forwards have are just innate – they can’t be taught.
Cliff Fletcher
April 16th, 2011
4:12 pm
yo lac/////
re-lax dude, maybe you should read my recent posts long enough to see i agree with most of what you say. envokes one of my favorite lines from stripes – “lighten up, francis”
anyway – wings are old but they are not dead yet. all the strife in phoenix has not kept the yotes from being a darn good hockey team in a non-traditional market. it is gonna be interesting to see if philly can compensate for lack of pronger. i am not sure the flyers benefit from the mystery of whether the big guy is going to play or not. seems they would come together better as a team if the flyers made a definate decision on pronger’s status for the balance of the series. face it, if he is not shooting a puck today it is doubtful he will be available for the next 7-10 days.
ZAvalanche
April 16th, 2011
4:39 pm
Cliff and LAC in a cage match = awesome. Anyhow, Cliff, I think Philly will be just fine without Pronger. They have a reputation for toughness and he is a small piece of the puzzle.
Cliff Fletcher
April 17th, 2011
8:40 am
avs///
got some pucks past miller last night to prove ryan is human too.
it’s a blog we have to have some fun here too-
hey lac- truce?
ZAvalanche
April 17th, 2011
9:23 am
Cliff – Oh, I know it is just a blog, and believe me, I like to have just as much fun and quite honestly I makes me laugh when I read people sparring in the spirit of good fun. I enjoy your posts and LAC’s and, hell, everybody’s posts. I bet if you all got together for a beer and a game it would be a lot of fun
Cliff Fletcher
April 17th, 2011
10:00 am
yeah it would be cool. you have to let us know the next time you are in atlanta.
Red Light
April 17th, 2011
10:33 am
100th?
Just completed a little research spurned on by the Habs taking a 2-0 lead against the Bruins, the team I picked to represent the Eastern Conference this year. Am I worried? Yeah, a little, but there have been five other instances since 2000 where a team won the first two games of the series on the road, came home and laid an egg.
The last team to lose a series after two road wins to start the series was the New York Rangers in 2009 to the Capitals.
The others?
Montreal in 2006 to Carolina
Washington in 2003 to Tampa Bay
Vancouver in 2002 to Detroit
Pittsburgh in 2000 to Philadelphia
Joe Friday and I have an opportunity to throw in the towel after today’s games. If the Rangers lose today I throw my hat full force into the Sabres and Predators ring, and if Joe Friday’s Hawks lose to Vancouver, I believe he’ll jump headlong onto the Habs’ bandwagon.
JF: How are the Irish Car Bombs treating you today?
ZAvalanche
April 17th, 2011
10:39 am
Joe Friday, multiple car bombs? Ouch. lol! RL, I am pulling for either NY or TB in the East. I don’t see Vancouver losing in the first round, but if anybody is going to take them down it will be the Hawks.
Cliff – I have a brother and many friends in Atl, next time I visit, damn sure I am going to try and hook up with my fellow Thrashy fans
Cliff Fletcher
April 17th, 2011
10:45 am
sounds good avs
rangers lost their heart and soul player in callahan, tough for them to replace this guy. ryan callahan is old school, plays 100% every shift. in fact he probably plays too hard. so much for american kids not having the heart to play like john tonelli.
i am really pulling for the hawks, hope they can comeback with 2 home wins and make this a 3 game series. not shocked at all about the sharks tanking it last night, they still have some players like marleau that canbot get it going for the playoffs. so much for l.a. not having enough despite losing their leading scorer. bet williams’ shoulder is killing him. ryan smith is still a force on the ice, great “callahan” type player.
ZAvalanche
April 17th, 2011
10:52 am
The loss of Callahan is huge. Kopitar – huge. Ryan Smyth I have always liked watching and he was a brute and an Avs killer in Edmonton, though he is getting a bit long in the tooth. That is one guy who plays full-bore every shift.
World Be Free
April 17th, 2011
10:57 am
Aren’t we glad the Thrashers didn’t mortgage their future for Dustin Penner? Penner is pointless in his last 13 games, having been demoted to the fourth line. Not much return for 2 first round picks.
The question is, will Colbert, the defenseman the Kings traded to Edmonton as part of the deal become another Braydon Coburn? Nice to see we are not the only team to panic and make knee-jerk deals.
ZAvalanche
April 17th, 2011
11:03 am
WBF, Penner has been a disappointment as of late, but I wouldn’t count him out.
Red Light
April 17th, 2011
11:11 am
It’s OK for Ovechkin to run around the ice like a chicken with his head cut off at Verizon Center looking to take a run at opponents when their backs are turned. Wonder how brave he’ll be at MSG today with those tactics? This top scorer deserves to get hit, and often. I respect his abilities and he was trying to be a difference maker with his hits in the first two games. I have a feeling we won’t see it again today.
ZAvalanche
April 17th, 2011
11:25 am
RL, I am not totally sure I agree. He is a BEAST of a man and larger than most D men. I hope he gets some physical play and how he deals with it will tell me if he is amazing or just a scoring forward in the regular season.
World Be Free
April 17th, 2011
4:20 pm
I like Ovie, but I would also like to see somebody knock him on his backside. Catching him is the real issue.
World Be Free
April 17th, 2011
4:59 pm
Zavs – I just think of what L.A. gave up knowing he’s a UFA next year. At least the Kings have the cap space to resign him if they choose. Penner is a player that needs to be in the right situation to thrive.
ZAvalanche
April 17th, 2011
8:57 pm
You all wont believe this – I just had a softball player tell me hockey players were wussies. Seriously?
Zombie Steve
April 17th, 2011
10:31 pm
Did you pull his shirt over his head and punch him in the face??
World Be Free
April 18th, 2011
6:58 am
Show him Torres’ hit on Seabrooke.
Wanna get rid of head shots? Stat suspending the coaches, fining general managers and teams. I have hated the Canucks since the Steve Moore incident.
Red Light
April 18th, 2011
8:02 am
Saw a stat where the Habs have lost the last two series in which they led 2-0 going home.
Tampa Bay and Buffalo go home with a chance to take a 2-1 series lead.
The Preds outshot the Ducks 37-16 but still had to go to the wire to win the game. Kostitsyn continues to play well and made a gorgeous pass to Fisher to set up the game winner.
The Rangers got a somewhat fluky goal by Dubinsky late in the third to stay in the series and get two days off before Game 4, which couldn’t hurt Girardi and Staal, who have played a combined 158 minutes in the three games so far. But, guess who the ice time leaders were for the Rangers yesterday…Ryan McDonagh and Michael Sauer…two American rookie defensemen, both of whom played more than 26 minutes. Boyle, McDonagh, Sauer, Anisimov (1 prior game), Stepan, Gilroy, Prust and Zuccarello all are making their playoff debuts this year.
When Ryan Miller allows four goals or more, he typically plays very well in his next start. He allowed just 34 goals in 16 subsequent starts after allowing four or more goals this year and had three shutouts in those games. Expect great atmospheres in Buffalo and Montreal tonight.
Anyone wondering how many people will show up for the Coyotes game tonight? All the cheap seats are sold, but there is some availability in the more expensive ones. Could be a good night in Phoenix.
Red Light
April 18th, 2011
8:31 am
Have a straggler up there somewhere Trixie.
Trixie (Rawhide's Secretary)
April 18th, 2011
9:30 am
Mr. Red Light – Your post has been freed. Also, please consider this your 30-minute Ranall Warning. There will be a new Rawhide blog posted at 10:00 am.