Fair or not, Craig Ramsay should be held accountable and shown the door
Three and a half years ago, early into the 2007-08 season, the Atlanta Thrashers traveled home from Philadelphia after losing to the Flyers 4-0. The loss was the sixth straight to start off the new campaign and it was also the second time they had been held without a goal that fall.
But before they dropped the puck on game number seven two nights later when the New York Rangers were in town, the organization had made one major change…firing head coach Bob Hartley.
The move came the very next morning after that loss in Philly and to little surprise to many. “He simply had lost the locker room”, many insisted, while some said he was simply a pre-lockout coach trapped in a post-lockout world. Others, myself included, just simply disagreed with the move.
Whatever the case, coach Bob became the second Thrashers coach to be shown the door, following Curt Fraser four years before.
In the wake of Hartley’s dismissal, I opined here the final judgment of whether or not the move was the right call would ultimately be decided by who replaced him and how the team finished. As we all know, there was not real “replacement” for the rest of the 76 games that season, instead Don Waddell simply added “head coach” to his “general manager” title. The team then finished 34-40-8 and in 14th place in the Eastern Conference.
I’ll let you draw your own conclusions as to whether firing him was the right call, but Hartley was held accountable for the 0-6 start to the season following first round playoff sweep six months prior.
Mr. Anderson, meet Mr. Hartley…Mr. Hartley, Mr. Anderson
Fast-forwarding to last spring… newly named general manager Rick Dudley announced that he had let go John Anderson and his entire coaching staff after just two seasons. After many successful years with the Thrashers AHL affiliate in Chicago, Anderson led Atlanta to records of just 35-41-6 and 35-34-13.
One of the main reasons for that firing, Dudley said, was because the organization felt they had assembled a team capable of contending for a playoff spot but the job simply did not get done. Thus, Anderson was held accountable and he was shown the same door Hartley was two and a half year prior.
Mr. Ramsay, meet Mr. Hartley…Mr. Hartley, Mr. Ramsay
And now, as much as I hate to say it, a time for accountability has come once again in Thrasherville. The exit door reserved for Thrashers head coaches should once again be unlocked and Craig Ramsay should be asked to follow behind Anderson, Hartley and Fraser.
I don’t come to this conclusion easily, to be sure. Like so many others last summer I was thrilled to learn that Dudley had tapped the long-time assistant for his first head-coaching gig. He’s a solid hockey man with a very good head on his shoulders and it seemed as though Dudley has pulled off a minor coup in not only bringing him in, but also John Torchetti from the Stanley Cup champion Chicago Blackhawks.
I was fortunate enough to interview Ramsay last summer and was very impressed with his belief that his main job here was how to teach these players how to be smart out on the ice. But the teacher doesn’t seem to be getting through to his pupils. And given how they’ve lost so many times in the same fashion lately…completely falling apart in the latter stages of the game…it’s apparent he doesn’t have the ability to properly handle the class.
That sound of rushing water wasn’t Niagara Falls
After last night’s 4-1 loss in Buffalo, which followed a disastrous 5-3 loss to Edmonton last Saturday, Ramsay’s Thrashers have played to a record of 6-15-5 since December 20. In calendar year 2011, they have won exactly three times in regulation and for the month of February they are an abysmal 1-7-1.
Coaches get fired if those types of records come at the beginning of a season.
Should Craig Ramsay be fired at this time?
- Yes. The record speaks for itself (27%, 127 Votes)
- No. This is not his fault (32%, 150 Votes)
- Let him finish the season then decide (41%, 193 Votes)
Total Voters: 470
Loading ...These Thrashers have now lost four consecutive without even the benefit of an overtime consolation point. In each of those defeats they have lead or been tied in the second half of the game or later. The last time they lost four games in a row was just prior to the 3-2 win over the New York Rangers two Friday’s ago. The point gained via a 4-3 OT loss in Carolina was the only one earned during that particular stretch of losses.
The offense has been…well…offensive lately, scoring but nine goals during the four game slide. If not for Andrew Ladd it would be only four. As for the defense, well they should be building statues of them to place outside of Philips Arena. I can think of no better tribute to illustrate just how they perform in front of Pavelec’s net.
Last night’s loss followed the same pattern as so many that preceded it. The Thrashers again found themselves in a close game late in the second period, tied 1-1 thanks to Andrew Ladd’s power play goal, but a Sabres goal with just 68 second left before the second intermission was followed by another just 30 ticks of the clock later. It was the sixth time this season that they’ve allowed two goals in 39 seconds or less.
Just a buck fifty-four after the break it was 4-1 and the great whooooosh-ing sound you heard coming from western New York was not emanating from Niagara Falls. Rather it was the sound of yet another effort flushed down the drain and quite possibly their playoff hopes as well.
As was the case in Dallas last month, where a 1-1 game in the second became a 6-1 loss…and the last time Toronto was in town and a one-goal game in the second became a 9-3 route…and the 2-2 game against the Flyers entering the third period which tuned into a 5-2 loss…and a 2-2 game in Pittsburgh halfway through the second that soon became a 6-3 defeat…and of course that 3-1 lead early in the third last Saturday that dissolved into an embarrassing 5-3 loss to the worst team in the league…once again the Thrashers played just good enough to last until their all-too-usual collapse.
You could almost smell it coming after Paul Gaustad put Buffalo up 2-1. We in Thrasherville have become very familiar with that aroma lately.
Time to light the Torch in Atlanta
This team is the very definition of fragile as all it takes is one bad turn to cause them to crumble. It’s been that way for two months now and coach Ramsay has failed to address it properly. He doesn’t have the ability to properly motive this bunch, nor can he make the necessary adjustments in games to counter those made from the opposing bench.
Is the cause for the Thrashers fall in the standings solely his fault? No, absolutely not. These players give up too quick, take too many shifts off and certainly deserve their fair share of scorn as well. Some will point injuries to key players while and insist things would be different had they been healthy. Others will point to what the good coach was given to work with this season and ask why he should bear the brunt for it.
But, as they say, you don’t normally fire players. And here in Thrasherville, general managers don’t get fired either…they just get promoted to team president after a decade or so of futility.
And given the way this season has melted into yet another craptacular fiasco, whether it be deserving or not, Craig Ramsay’s time to take the fall has come. To have him remain and the team continue it’s death spiral from atop the conference standings last December towards Lotteryville possibly this spring would indicate the organization is accepting failure and unwilling to do anything about it.
Not a good sign to give to an already skeptical fanbase, let alone any potential new buyer.
The next time we see Rick Dudley should be when he thanks Rammer for his service, wishes him nothing but the best, reminds us all that it wasn’t all his fault…then introduces the next head coach for the Atlanta Thrashers, John Torchetti.
We can then only hope that the head coach’s exit door can at least stop swinging before we begin to think he needs to be shown it too.
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294 comments Add your comment
Smoothie
February 24th, 2011
3:01 pm
R/L – that’s about right when you think about it, but some might say we still overpaid for Big Buff as he cost us Morin + 1st.
But Reasoner = 4th, Sopes = 5th and Aliu = Crabb. So net of everything, we got Ben Maxwell for Ilya Kovalchuk since we had to use those two picks from NJ to win the bidding war for Byfuglien.
KLS1
February 24th, 2011
3:01 pm
If this team stays and gets new ownership I will buy tix again…until then…unlikely
Thrashers27
February 24th, 2011
3:06 pm
Don’t forget Bergfors and Cormier out of the Kovy deal Smoothie.
I like the news of possible ownership changes coming from CViv!
The Real Thrash
February 24th, 2011
3:07 pm
Yeah makes a lot of sense to fire a coach in the first year of his system.
Thinking like that got us in the place we’ere in now.
Coaching AND players who know the system should be held accountable.
How’s that bandwagon jump-off working for yall?
Thrashers27
February 24th, 2011
3:07 pm
…oh and Oduya too.
The Real Thrash
February 24th, 2011
3:09 pm
The ASG group is making moves to make the team look favorable for
an out of town owner. Do you really believe the players don’t see that?
Have you ever worked for a company just before a big layoff or they were leaving town?
Hockey Biltong
February 24th, 2011
3:12 pm
Making moves for the next season, period…
Thrashers27
February 24th, 2011
3:12 pm
Real Thrash,
I will again point out that Ramsay had these boys kickin’ butt early in the season. Why the dropoff now? I know, I know, all teams kick it into gear this time of year. So, does that mean that our beloved Thrashers were playing with extra intensity early on when other teams weren’t and now the opposite is true?
I just don’t buy it. I won’t deny that Ramsay has been given the shaft by ownership in that they won’t pony up the dough, but this should be a good team. We saw what they were capable of early in the year and that tells me that the coach needs to get their heads back in the game.
Moose
February 24th, 2011
3:17 pm
Rawhide,
Normally I agree with your posts but this just smacks of trying to rile people up. This team has no true top 6 forwards with a great amount of experience. That is not the coaches nor GM’s fault, that is smack on the ownership for not wanting to spend money on a veteran forward.
There is no development program with the Chicago Wolves as the Thrashers don’t control that team, it’s just an affiliation. I think Ramsay deserves one more year with some more players, if he fails next year then yes he goes and I’m not sure Torch should be the one as it seems some of the rumors state he’s alienated players.
First, let’s get rid of the ASG and find a single, egomanic owner that loves hockey and will love the Thrashers. Right now we just have a band of egos that are clueless.
I look at the Sabres with their new owner and realize they will be scary good with more $ and talent. We need to follow that model.
Frontman
February 24th, 2011
3:35 pm
The ASG is pathetic. Hope you like paying $65 mil to watch your beloved Hawks get pimp-slapped in the 1st round. If they had just been willing to get to the upper 40s in spending for the Thrashers, they’d have a much better product and a decent chance of making the playoffs – but not with this roster. “Systems” are way overrated anyway, unless you are talking about a Lemaire-style one. In all major sports, many good things happen simply because guys make plays. We don’t have enough guys who can make plays; not only that, but we have many guys who will break down badly 1+ times per game when the heat gets on (are you listening, Zach Bozosian?). With a $40 mil payroll, Dudley has to be both an absolute scouting wizard and incredibly lucky to put together a winner. He and Coach Ramsay are fighting a serious uphill battle.
As people have said, new ownership is the first step. And I hope there is some serious karma for the Hawks…
JoeFriday
February 24th, 2011
3:36 pm
Dudley is setting this team up for success over the next 2 to 3 years, here in Atlanta.
Playoffs have been a no go for us for a while now guys, thems the facts, look to next year and the birdie says the team stays here, don’t sweat it. If, and it’s a big if, a deal can be swung for new ownership by July 1st, who’s a UFA top line center that’s available?
World Be Free
February 24th, 2011
3:39 pm
Sabers new owner- folks need to remember Buffalo has gone a long time between good, commited owners. The last real commitment goes back to the mid-late 70’s with the Knox Brothers. That’s the last time Buffalio was a powerhouse. The Knoxs later became fat, dumb and slightly happy, Rigas was a chump and Golisano basically a saviour. In my opinion, this is the first time since 1977 the Buffalo Sabres have had real purpose. I guess we don’t have much to complain about, do we?
R. Stroz
February 24th, 2011
3:40 pm
I just realized why the Thrashers passed on Zherdev, Grossman is his agent.
R. Stroz
February 24th, 2011
3:41 pm
Joe Bob Friday – Brad Richards
Smoothie
February 24th, 2011
3:44 pm
Stroz – now THAT makes sense. But Grossman was right about Moose!
WBF – whatta ya mean “we”? Jumpin’ ship sailor!
Buff-n-stuff
February 24th, 2011
3:45 pm
Has ANYONE in here ever seen, even once, Coach Ramsay get pissed behind the bench? Grab a player by the jersey, throw down his clipboard, scream at a ref and take a bench minor for “HIS” team….NO !!! Ramsay certainly is NOT the “Bobby Cox” of the NHL….we need a coach with a fire in his gut and some moxey…..one that will get pissed and hold players accountable. It starts at the top, and trickles down throught the players. I agree w/ICE, time to light the TORCH Atlanta. And don’t work, he wont burn the town down. Only the ASG can do that !!!
Matt
February 24th, 2011
3:47 pm
This team is too damn young and immature. Ramsay isn’t getting the job done behind the bench, but what do you expect when teenagers (and Ladd) are leading the way? Of course they feel defeated. this is not an NHL roster. It’s an AHL roster with a few NHL players thrown in there. OF COURSE, they’re discouraged, they are not as talented as their opponents.
We’re not going to the playoffs this year. Accept it. We should be active in free agency bringing in PROVEN NHL veterans. We’ve got all the young talent on this roster we could want.
Sign a few solid vets to one-year deals. If the players work out and the team is good, they’ll have incentive to stay in Atlanta. If its not working out, we can trade them away. Either way, a one-year deal is an easy way to get money off of the books quickly.
World Be Free
February 24th, 2011
3:48 pm
Smoothie-no way brother
Buff-not his style. You could argue that professionals at the NHL level should not need that but we both know they do need to get roughed up on occasion
CA Thrashers Fan
February 24th, 2011
3:48 pm
Ramsay doesn’t deserve to be fired yet. This team has been disappointing since late December, but the lack of talent and depth up front is just too weak to cover up the types of mistakes that young teams like the Thrashers are prone to make. Rammer gets a pass for this season, and deserves some leeway going into next season before it is fair to judge his performance.
This team was only a playoff team on paper if everybody stayed healthy and all players met and exceeded expectations. I am as impatient as the next guy in wanting to see this team in the playoffs, but it just doesn’t happen overnight. I will say though, with a 4 year extension, the expectations are certainly on Dudley to start getting this ship in the right direction.
Aside, as incredible as it is to think, this team REALLY misses Jim Slater.
Hockey Biltong
February 24th, 2011
3:51 pm
Who was dealt from Tampa to Dallas when Duds was there?
Paminski
February 24th, 2011
3:52 pm
Not sure if Ram should go. But if he does, I’ll miss his ties.
Hockey Biltong
February 24th, 2011
3:53 pm
Bang Bang Maxwells’ Silver Hammer came down on our head!
Rawhide
February 24th, 2011
3:56 pm
Normally I agree with your posts but this just smacks of trying to rile people up.
Moose – I’d love to tell you that’s the case, but I’m afraid it isn’t. I honestly feel this way and have for a few weeks now.
As for those using the argument that since Rammer is just in his first year of servcice we should wait, I would ask you this…why should we have to wait 2 or 3 years before we realize it isn’t working when it seems obvious right now?
Again, agree to disagree if you wish, and I hope to God I have to render an apology later down the road…but this is how I feel today about the situation.
In the mean time, like all of you I’m verrrry curious to see what C-Viv is digging up for us.
Smoothie
February 24th, 2011
3:59 pm
Biltong – Richards was traded to Dallas at the 2008 trade deadlinek, but Dudley was looong gone from Tampa.
Iron League 13
February 24th, 2011
4:03 pm
I don’t know who or if anyone drained into Rawhide’s cereal so to speak, but to get a reaction like that I think someone did.
Etiquette 101: Don’t drain in your hosts cereal and be thankful he/she/they were nice enough to let you in.
Flagstaff
February 24th, 2011
4:04 pm
So… any idea who “The Balkan” might be?
Rawhide
February 24th, 2011
4:06 pm
IL13 – No, no….there was no “draining” in my cereal. It was just a general response back to those who have taken the time to post some very thoughtful counter-points to my opinion. Just part of the discussion, ya know….
I haven’t really been able to respond directly to everyone given how comments have come in “rapid-fire” mode today, so I’ve simply chosen to respond in a more generic fashion.
Hoof Arted
February 24th, 2011
4:10 pm
Do you feel any better now that you’ve gotten all of that off your chest, BlogMaster?
Iron League 13
February 24th, 2011
4:13 pm
Brendan cracks me up. I’m sorry not to give a reason, just go read one of his short stories. Always something cleverly absurd in em.
Smoothie
February 24th, 2011
4:13 pm
I can certainly understand where RH is coming from. Anyone who has taken the time to watch games closely, run it back on the DVR and compare it to earlier in the season, something does indeed seem to be amiss even beyond the injury bug. I’d say the Slater loss was the blow that precipitated the slide, but there are still enough veterans to seemingly make the difference and win a few games. There doesn’t seem to be any real flexibility in the approach Ramsay is taking as he seems more concerned drilling the same good habits into their skulls rather than teach them new ways to be creative or find situations for his better players to flourish in. When it comes to skill guys though, the injury hampered Antropov has been the biggest difficulty to overcome.
I’m not ready to fire Ramsay just yet, but if there isn’t any progress made (with younger players surely coming up from Wolves), then I think you have to consider going in a different direction. Remember how everyone was praising Ramsay for making a difference with Johnny Boychuk last year in Boston? How come we see mostly regression from Zach Bogosian? Is it the player or is it the coaching? Or is it both? We do have several key players b/w the ages of 19 & 22 and that does factor in, but Kaner and Bogey seem to be stuck in major ruts of doing the same bad things over and over. At some point, doesn’t a good coach break through to them and get them to do more? IDK
THEBrickwall
February 24th, 2011
4:13 pm
I’m hoping the mystery man is William Tecumseh Sherman and that he comes in here and burns this franchise to the ground and starts from scratch. It’s the only way to rid this operation of the diseases that have been bestowed upon it over the past 11 years. Owners, colors, name, management (you know who I’m referring to) marketing resources, other professional services that were tied to the club, all of it must go. Fresh start, fresh thinking, fresh responsibility — everyone at every level is held accountable.
LAC
February 24th, 2011
4:14 pm
Well Sopel is gone, Dawes too, So what next ? I feel just about ANYONE is in play to go.
Plus I have got to agree with those on Buff’s physical play. He can hit and play TOUGH, it is as if, they said, Don’t do that here in Atlanta. I am still upset Eager got the Atlanta or DUDS dudley SHAFT for standing up to toronot goons… and ONLY a FIFTH round pick ? dudley you need a Fifth to clear your warped mind, Because you are NOT helping this team, You are HURTING it just like your “buddy” Stupid Lying waddell !
Iron League 13
February 24th, 2011
4:16 pm
Rawhide – Sorry, I just didn’t want a troll being rude to our host and admittedly didn’t have the time to read between checking on my grill and such. That should tell you something, I mutitask with this blog and grillling. And they say Facebook’s addictive (pshaw)
Moose
February 24th, 2011
4:17 pm
What coach would you hire besides Torch? If Ramsay’s not the answer, I don’t see how he can be as they’re all preaching the same sermon at this point.
Hockey Biltong
February 24th, 2011
4:17 pm
Big LA group. Not lightning in a bottle…
Smoothie, thanks, I couldn’t remember!!!
Hockeynut
February 24th, 2011
4:18 pm
It is not Ramsey’s fault having to coach with what he has think again all you morans play the game and you’ll see what it’s like to play with miners not ready yet for the big boys, what we need is a coach like the Devil’s have that will make them guys earn their paycheck and show this town what Hockey is all about
Tom
February 24th, 2011
4:24 pm
God, I hope I am not a MORAN like Hockeynut…
Red Light
February 24th, 2011
4:26 pm
Hockey Biltong: Even the Darryl Sydor to Dallas trade came three years after Dudley’s departure.
Here is Dudley’s NHL resume as a coach, personell man, etc.
• Head coach of the Buffalo Sabres from 1989-90 to 1991-92 (85-72-31 record).
>> Lost 4-2 to Montreal in the first round in his first two seasons and the Bruins in the first round in his final season.
• General manager of the Ottawa Senators for one year (1998-99).
>> Lost 4-0 to Buffalo in the first round
• Senior vice president/general manager of the Tampa Bay Lightning (1999-00 to 2001-02)
>> Missed playoffs in all three seasons.
• General manager of the Florida Panthers for two seasons (2002-03 to 2003-04) and he spent 40 games as head coach (13-15-9-3) record during the 2003-04 season.
>> Missed playoffs in both seasons.
• Chicago Blackhawks consultant in 2004 as a consultant (No season)
• Chicago named him director of player personnel prior to the 2005-06 season.
>> Missed playoffs
• Chicago assistant general manager for two seasons 2007-08 and 2008-09
>> Missed playoffs in 2007-08 and then went to the Western Conference Finals in 2008-09
• Thrashers as associate general manager June 22, 2009 to April 14, 2010
>> Missed playoffs
• Thrashers general manager from April 14, 2010 to present
>> ?
Red Light
February 24th, 2011
4:28 pm
I missed 2006-07 in Dudley’s second year as director of player personnel
>> Missed playoffs
Rawhide
February 24th, 2011
4:36 pm
Do you feel any better now that you’ve gotten all of that off your chest, BlogMaster?
Hoof Arted – yeah…I kinda do. Thanks for asking.
What coach would you hire besides Torch? If Ramsay’s not the answer, I don’t see how he can be as they’re all preaching the same sermon at this point.
Moose – Honestly I’d let Torch give ‘er a whirl for the remaing games and see what he can do with the “interim” label. If it looks like he was bale to do something, them we take the label off this summer. But regardless of who they might replace him with, sometimes a coach gets fired not because of who might replace him…but simply because he’s not getting the job done.
Rawhide – Sorry, I just didn’t want a troll being rude to our host and admittedly didn’t have the time to read between checking on my grill and such. That should tell you something, I mutitask with this blog and grillling. And they say Facebook’s addictive (pshaw)
IL13 – No worries. In fact,, the discussion today has been pretty good. Spirited, mind you…but mostly respectful.
So…whatcha grillin’?
kj
February 24th, 2011
4:37 pm
Send Lawyers, Morans and Miners…….the sh*& has hit the fan!
goose
February 24th, 2011
4:38 pm
Firing Ramsey is not the answer, nor do I think he should stay as the head coach. But how long are we going to do this for, fire the old coach hire a new coach get excited about what might happen and then call for his head before the season ends. Most new coaches won’t have instantaneous success with there new teams exception with tampa but they already had all the pieces in place and new owners. Give him a chance to get a team NHL team instead of half AHLers and half guys who have only played year or two in the league, It has a been and infuriating 11 years but we have to give a coach a chance for more than a year but…if a guy like Lemair would come here I think dudley should hire him and demote Ramsey to assistant.
Iron League 13
February 24th, 2011
4:40 pm
On the plus side tomorrow Rawhide can generate just as much traffic with his “Is it Time to Fire Duds?” post.
Sopel for Ben what’s his name and another EFFING PICK?!?!? Lame-O.
Iron League 13
February 24th, 2011
4:41 pm
blog (rather)
simpleminded
February 24th, 2011
4:43 pm
Let Dudley continue the rebuild. Hopefully a new owner is ready to make decisions on July 1. Let’s work for a better draft pick instead of firing the guys up with a new coach.
Personally, I’m tired of the Merry-go-Coach and the Captain of the Day. We need stability. Win or lose. give it another season and see how it shakes out with new owners and more fans showing up.
TheJets
February 24th, 2011
4:43 pm
Fire the coach? Did you expect to win this year… or ever for that matter?
Nate
February 24th, 2011
4:44 pm
Don’t know about fire. Maybe. I’m fine with the decision either way. This team wrote themselves off a long time ago. Looks like my preseason prediction of 78 points has a good chance of coming true.
Cornbread
February 24th, 2011
4:52 pm
Rawhide I do not believe that it “seems obvious” that Ramsay is the reason things are not working.
On rare occasion, I’m going to disagree completely with you on this one at this point of the game.
Iron League 13
February 24th, 2011
4:53 pm
Rawhide – All wood grilled 24hr Teriyaki-ish Marinated Chicken. I can’t call it truly teriyaki, cuz I made it up and am not of the Asian persuasion so I don’t wanna cheapen it by acting like it’s bonafide, but it is dee-lish.
I just started doing it about a week ago, this is the fourth time. Ingredients are…
4-5 lbs. skinless chicken thighs
one full bottle of Bragg’s Liquid Aminos or naturally brewed soy sauce
about a cup of honey or evaporated cane juice (natural sugar)
a bundle worth of fresh green onions (chopped)
a couple large cloves of fresh garlic (minced)
a couple tablespoons of fresh ginger (finely minced)
4-5 fresh tangerines (juiced)
a couple tablespoons of crushed red pepper
Awesome and no need to cook down that marinade, the citrus breaks it all down even in the fridge over night. So if you follow that you’ll dig. I grill the chicken over direct medium-high heat anywhere from about 10 to 15 minutes. The marinade makes grilling fool proof too. Try it sometime.
the (first) ben
February 24th, 2011
4:57 pm
this team won’t win until it has new owners. next truth bomb: a good ahl team will yearly get to tenth in the nhl. if you wanna compete with nhl teams you gotta havr nhl-level talent