Dudley takes it one year at a time…maybe two
The Atlanta Thrashers came to terms with RFA Andrew Ladd on a 1-year $2.35 million deal Thursday. This signing takes care of the one remaining player of the three that had filed for arbitration this summer. Just the evening prior it was announced that Ben Eager had accepted a 1-year $965K deal and last week the Thrashers balked at the $2.4 mil salary that was awarded to Clarke MacArthur.
Also last week they signed goalie Ondrej Pavelec to a two-year contract worth a total of $2.3 million. Earlier in the month we learned that Eric Boulton had accepted a one-year deal worth $650,000 while Jimmy Slater signed for two years at $1 mil per. The big UFA acquisition so far this summer came on July 1 when Chris Mason was inked to a contract that will dish out $3.7 million over two seasons to the netminder.
Are you sensing a pattern here?
Every Thrashers player that has come to terms on a new contract this summer has done so for either one or two years. New Thrashers general manager Rick Dudley has yet to commit more than that to any player since taking over the job last spring.
I use the word “yet” because it’s still yet to be determined what terms RFAs Bryan Little and Nic Bergfors will accept…plus there is still plenty of time left for another UFA signing or two. But don’t be stunned if any future deals follow the same path as the ones we’ve seen so far…one or two years, nothing more…as Dudley and Co. seem very leery of committing long term to anyone as they move forward with the latest Thrasherville reconstruction project.
So if Maxim Afinogenov is looking for a long-term contract, this would explain why he’s found all offers from the Thrashers “unsatisfactory”.
Now, this bucks the trend of the last few offseasons in which the Thrashers did indeed commit to long-term free agent signings…each one generating mixed results.
Last summer it was forward Nik Antropov agreeing to a four-year contract that hit the cap at just over $ 4 mil per season. I think it’s safe to say that his 24 goals, 67 points +13 showing more than justified his salary and terms.
The year prior had defenseman Ron Hainsey riding in to town thanks to a deal that will pay him $4.2 million through the 2012-13 season. In the two seasons he’s already spent here he’s only missed one game and is a –22 in that time while contributing 11 goals and 54 assists. While he has been a good addition to the blueline, there is still a debate as to whether or not his play equates to his pay. I’ve read comments about Hainsey that range from “trade his butt outa here” to “slap a C on his jersey”.
And then there is the much discussed, much debated and much maligned signing of center Todd White in 2007. His 4-year contract that will pay him a total of $9.5 million will end after this coming season. And unless I havegrossly misread the mood of Thrasherville, that day cannot come soon enough for most.
So, maybe Dudley is just a tad gun-shy to over-commit to anyone for fear of tying another Todd White-esque anchor around the organization’s neck.
Another reason for all these short-term deals may also circle around the notion that it allows both the Thrashers and the player try each other out…get a feel for each other…before deciding one way or the other. Also… and let’s just be honest with each other here…it isn’t as though star players are beating down the door to grab their share of the great Thrashers’ winning history. And unless and until a string of playoff runs are actually put together, the Thrashers are going to have to overpay for talent and/or accept players that are only willing to commit to one season here. It’s an “it is what it is” situation.
That being said however, I think what we are seeing has more to do with Rick Dudley’s stated strategy of not bogging the system down with veteran players to the point where prospects are not able to find an opening on the roster once they have ben properly seasoned. That logic seems fairly sound when you have such promising youngsters that are in the pipeline like Patrice Cormier, Arturs Kulda, Paul Postma, Carl Klingberg, Fredrik Pettersson, Alexander Burmistrov, etc.
The flip side of this one/two-year strategy, though, is that the Thrashers could be looking at quite a turnover in personnel over the next 24 months. Of the players currently on the Thrashers payroll, five are slated to become UFAs next summer and another four will be RFAs, including Zach Bogosian. In 2012 Evander Kane and Ondrej Pavelec will become RFAs while Rich Peverley, Jim Slater, Johnny Oduya and Mason will become UFAs. This means that until we learn the terms and duration of the Little and Bergfors deals only Antropov, Hainsey and Toby Enstrom have contracts past the next two seasons.
As for the most recent signings, consider Ben Eager will only be 27-years of age next summer and if he proves himself worthy of re-signing Dudley will be competing with others to keep him. And if a pending RFA like, say, Andrew Ladd has the type of season many feel he can, what is it then going to cost Dudley to re-sign him next year as a 25-year old RFA?
Given that, the Thrashers current course of action naturally causes concern given the Retention Deficit Disorder that has plagued them for the past decade. Obtaining talent around here hasn’t been a problem. Keeping it… well that’s a different story.
Regardless of the rhyme, reason or ramifications, when it comes to player contracts it looks like the Thrashers and their new GM are content to take things one year at a time…maybe two.
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194 comments Add your comment
Buzzeng
July 29th, 2010
9:56 pm
Maybe old news – NHL.com reporting Mannino signed.
Josh
July 29th, 2010
9:57 pm
Good read, I have faith in dud’s until he proves other wise, so come on october you can’t get here soon enough!
Buzzeng
July 29th, 2010
10:00 pm
New coach – new players… hard to make any long term commitments when there are so many unknowns. It will be a good test for the coach, and a great opportunity for players to shine and build up a resume for longer-term, higher-dollar contracts. On the flip side, no one’s tying themselves to a team that has been a perennial league anchor.
Rawhide
July 29th, 2010
10:01 pm
Buzzeng – Yes…per C-Viv tweet, “Mannino deal with Thrashers is two year, two way worth $500,000 over $105,000″.
Josh – Indeed, October cannot get here soon enough.
Joe Friday
July 29th, 2010
10:37 pm
So I see that Custance reports that indeed Wadudley did try to sign Ladd to a longer term contract, did you miss that, Rawhide? It’s not his intent to sign Ladd to only one year, he would’ve loved to have locked him up at least 3 to 5 years (into his UFA years) but Ladd wouldn’t sign (”couldn’t agree on his value). It’s not a question of us not wanting to lock up a solid player like Ladd, it’s the fact that he didn’t want to sign.
I’m sure the sad club apologist will come and attack faulty logic, paranoid ramblings, etc. Or is it simply the basic truth? Inquiring minds want to know (and rational thinking people can clearly see what the answer is).
Rawhide
July 29th, 2010
10:43 pm
Joe Friday – I saw it. It does sound a lot like the Colby Armstrong situation of a year ago when he signed just before arbitration…but I sure would like to know what the gap was beteen the two parties.
ex-STH
July 29th, 2010
10:47 pm
If Duds proceeds to sign Little and Bergfors to each an average of $2.5 – $3 mil each, aren’t the Thrashers still $8 – $10 mil below the floor? What will they do then? Duds still has room for a $4 -5 mil forward and a $4 – 5 mil d-man. I really think he is getting ready to make a BIG trade for either a top 6 forward or a top 2 – 3 d-man to replace Kubina
Rawhide
July 29th, 2010
10:55 pm
ex-STH – Capgeek shows the Thrashers right at $40.7 million after the Ladd signing. That’s with 18 players on the roster, (10 forwards, 6 defensemen & 2 goalies). If signed at the rates you suggested above, Bergfors and Little would take that to right at about $46 mil or so. Add in Arturs Kulda to complete the blueline and you are now at about $46.5 million.
Joe Friday
July 29th, 2010
11:00 pm
“Add in Arturs Kulda to complete the blueline and you are now at about $46.5 million.”
Boston wants to move Savard and he makes what, $5m? Just sayin . . . there’s more moves to be made, methinks
Rawhide
July 29th, 2010
11:03 pm
JF – Methinks you are correct in that thought that there are still moves to be made
Cornbread
July 30th, 2010
12:32 am
Make it to the playoffs, make some noise, and all will work itself out. That is the plan. Don’t make it to the playoffs and the plan falls to pieces. Methinks Dudley knows the Thrashers are going to make some noise.
Alan R.
July 30th, 2010
12:39 am
Difference between Colby and Ladd: Ladd is still RFA.
Brendan
July 30th, 2010
1:11 am
Rawhide, what an awesome blog you just wrote. I loved it. I touched a little bit on this very topic in the previous blog, when discussing the contracts of Hainsey and Antropov. These are the biggest deals, aside from Kovalchuk’s 5-year RFA contract back in 2005. On the one hand, thank God we are no longer saddled with a contract like Bobby Holik, or a roster full of Rucchins, Klees, and Suttons. On the other hand, Joe Friday has made some very sound points about player contracts. More specifically, that when the choice of where to play is exclusively that of the player, they tend NOT to opt for Atlanta, prefering the waters of the open market.
R.Stroz, Red Light, Smoothie and other regular posters have commented on the player retention deficit. For the past few blogs now, I’ve been asking, “Let’s see how many of our RFA players are willing to concede ANY of their UFA eligibility.” So far, the answer is none. I think it was poster Rob who said, “If anyone will/does, it’ll be Bryan Little.” I agree with him on that aspect, for I really am not confident that Nic Bergfors will go long with Atlanta.
Look, I know I jump the gun a little bit on contracts. Last offseason I said, “Better lock up Bryan Little, proactively, or it’ll cost us in 2010.” Well, maybe I was wrong about that. Bryan Little didn’t pot another 31 goals, to usher in an enormous pay day. I’ve been saying, “Better lock up Zach Bogosian, PROACTIVELY, while you still can, or you’ll pay him through the nose for his RFA contract in 2011.” Once again, I could be wrong. If Bogosian underperforms, we won’t see that big pay day next July. And probably won’t see any RFA offersheet coming his way, either.
But what if I’m not wrong? Let’s say Zach Bogosian plays 78 of 82 games next season, healthy as a horse. And he becomes one of the biggest stars on the Atlanta Thrashers Hockey Club. Still with me? Apparently, the NHL “allows” 17 year contracts, that average out to “marginal” cap hits. Are we prepared, next season, to match some ridiculous RFA offersheet for Bogosian? Before you say, “Pfft! That would NEVER happen,” I’ll remind you that there was a REASON why Bogosian went 3rd overall in his Draft year, and was considered as one of the top two blueliners in his Draft Class. GM’s coveted him.
Some posters suggest that our native songbirds sing like this, “Cheap, cheap, cheap.” Well, if you were a GM who was in a poaching kind of mood, what would make you think you couldn’t pry this guy out of Atlanta?, for the cost of some throw away draft pick compensation, if your team is a serious contender?
Okay, I get it. The organization has the right to match. And if by matching the offersheet, we lock up an essential piece for the future, at some marginal cap hit, perhaps the RFA offersheet is our new “best friend,” since we can’t seem lock up players with our VERY OWN offers. Would Buffalo still have Vanek if Kevin Lowe hadn’t tried to poach him with the RFA offersheet? I seem to recall that Don Waddell once said, “I hope there is an RFA offersheet for Kari Lehtonen.” Stop. Waddell traded him to Dallas one year after making those comments.
If we’re going to make a mistake with a contract, by over-extending years and salary, at least Bogosian seems like a good bet. He was, after all, a “lottery draft pick.” Yeah, in these pars, that conjures up images of Patrick Stefan and Kari Lehtonen. I hear you. For some others, you envision Dany Heatley, Ilya Kovalchuk, and Evander Kane, thinking, “those didn’t seem like bad picks.” But two of those three escaped, along with their substitute assets (Hossa, deVries, picks #24 and #54 in the 2010 draft, etc.). What’s the point of having high-end 1st round picks, like a Braydon Coburn, if they’ll never play their careers right here in Atlanta? Or they’ll never be properly developed, right here in Atlanta? As a franchise constructs its house, the house needs a foundation and a roof. Once that’s in place, we can start to talk about corian counters, berber carpets, gold-plated faucets, and elaborate tile work for the bathrooms, and beveled glass for the front door. Ten years down the road, who would have thought that the roof (Kovalchuk) would blow off and the foundation (Heatley) would crack, forcing us to rebuild? If Bogosian is the new foundation, and Evander Kane the new roof, don’t you think we should get started on furnishing the new “House of Thrashers?” You don’t do that … with a series of one year deals. Or even two. No, the formula should be a draft quality players inside the lottery draft, then to lock them up.
But I’m not a GM. I’m just a voice on a blog. So what could I possibly know?
Brendan
July 30th, 2010
1:13 am
Trixie, I had to wake you, taking you away from whatever Rawhide’s assigned duties are at this hour, but could you salvage my post from around 1:10AM?
barry
July 30th, 2010
1:47 am
I agree with the fact that this coming season we have a new GM putting this team together and all new coaching staff, so it might be a good idea to not commit to players beyond a year or two. We are all not sure how everyone and everything will come together yet. Hopefully as the season wears on Dudley and company will see just how all these moves really come together and then can be more certain who to really keep long term.
I’m not opposed to getting Savard back here as I think he’s matured into a better play than when he was with us the first time, BUT who can we really afford to give up that’s going to please Boston at the same time not actually adding to or equaling the payroll Savard is already forcing them to pay?
Rawhide (Trixie's Secretary)
July 30th, 2010
7:07 am
Mr. Brendan - Yawwwwwwwn…..Your 1:11 am post has been freed from Blog Purgatory. You people just don’t sleep much, do you? This place has become 24/7.
Now, I must go brew the morning coffee.
OmniFan
July 30th, 2010
7:15 am
Does this suggest the possibility of a change from DW’s old policy: will we see in-season negotiations for contract extensions after Dudley and Ramsay have had a chance to kick the tires?
R. Stroz
July 30th, 2010
8:00 am
Yes, capgeek.com has the Thrashers at 40.7 million and nhlnumbers.com has the Thrashers at 40.6 million before the Little and Bergfors contracts.
HOWEVER, those cap totals include FULL bonuses. If you take out the bonuses, the Thrashers payroll currently stands at 35.6 million.
So, lets add Little and Bergfors into the payroll at 2.5 million a piece per year for a total of 5 million.
This puts the Thrashers payroll in a range from 45.6 million to 41.6 million with three roster spots remaining. The lower end of the parameter is below the NHL salary floor. So, to be safe, MORE salary must be added to avoid the penalties associated with failing to meet the cap floor.
Now, if somehow someway Charmin’s payroll is removed, another 2.375 million is in play. The only reason the Thrashers have for keeping Charmin is to meet the payroll floor. That’s it. Remove Charmin from the equation and the Thrashers payroll ranges from 43.225 to 39.225 million. If Charmin was disposed of, the Thrashers would have to collectively spend 6 million more in salary to fill three roster openings in order to insure meeting the payroll floor.
Anyway, either with or without Charmin, the Thrashers must fill three more roster positions and spend a minimum of between 4 to 6 million to insure meeting the salary floor.
Didn’t we have this discussion several years ago? You remember the year the Thrashers signed Hainsey and Zhitnik’s buyout money of 1.16 million kept the Thrashers over the salary floor.
Sounds like deja vu all over again.
Anyone picking up on a pattern yet?
Well, at least Dudley has procured better coaches and players, but I still have this bird outside the window singing CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP.
Dwayne
July 30th, 2010
8:11 am
71 days…
rob
July 30th, 2010
8:20 am
If you have better coaches and better players and all that cap space, why is that a bad place to be? I am curious. There are many teams with cap problems that will need to shed players to get under the cap. IK is still in the wind and who knows what disaster he will create. That notwithstanding we have a good core group here, and someone who seems to be pretty shrewd making the calls now. Methinks it is good to be us, and if we get to the playoffs and continue to grow, we will need that cap space to get the needed parts to go deep into the playoffs right?
GaVaHokie
July 30th, 2010
8:22 am
Joe and Rawhide… well we saw what Kovy wanted to stay in Atlanta. We’ve already seen that he was willing to take less for even longer term with NJ.
Atlanta doesn’t get a hometown discount. It gets the hometown mark-up.
If Armstrong was willing to take $3 million to play in Toronto, what do you think he wanted to stay in miserable Atlanta? But I hear ya, I’d still like to hear the figure.
Andrew Ladd was the 4th overall pick in 2004. He’s performed admirably, with two Stanley Cups and is making less money than fellow draftee’s Trave Zajac, Wojtek Wolski and Radislav Olesz, all taken lower with not much more of an impressive resume. Certainly he wants in the $3-4 million range, and I’d have to agree with him.
Smoothie
July 30th, 2010
8:30 am
Stroz – with your astute analysis it becomes quite clear what we need to do:
SIGN KOVY to a 17 year deal worth $112 M!! $6.5 M per. LOL
Unfortch, since White had shoulder surgery and has not been cleared yet by doctors, we’re stuck with him. He can’t be bought out even if the wanted to.
Perhaps Savard would come back to ATL now that Ramsay is here to make him feel at home? And I’m the king of wishful drinking!
GaVaHokie
July 30th, 2010
8:34 am
I’ll add that Andrew Ladd’s current salary ($2.3 mil) now matches up with Drew Stafford… also a 2004 draft pick, lower than Ladd, with no Stanley Cups.
Eric
July 30th, 2010
8:45 am
no one has mentioned the expiration of the current CBA as a possible reason for all the short-term contracts…word is that Colorado refuses to sign anyone for longer than two years because the cap could go down significantly after the negotiation of a new CBA.
R. Stroz
July 30th, 2010
8:45 am
And I’m the king of wishful drinking!
Smoothie – Have you procured Premature Weekend Imbibing Disorder?
I’m actually expecting a salary dump trade at some point. Remember the trade with the Ducks for Schneider to exchange for Klee & Larsen?
The Blake Wheeler arbitration ruling could bear heavily (pun intended)on the Bruins.
GaVaHokie
July 30th, 2010
8:46 am
Ladd is still making less than Clarke MacArthur’s arbitration award.
… should I continue?
Smoothie
July 30th, 2010
9:06 am
Again, if Laddy really thought he could get $3 – 3.5 M from the Thrashers and instead he gets a 1 year deal for LESS than C-Mac’s arbitration award, how is that going to help him feel warm and fuzzy in ATL. Not to mention he’ll feel peeved that he must once again prove himself to a new team.
The one good thing I didn’t realize is he is 24 and not 25. So he may be stuck here for awhile. I think he’ll thrive here and like it just fine. The boys from BC — see XLB and Kaner — seem to like ATL very much.
Joe Friday
July 30th, 2010
9:11 am
“well we saw what Kovy wanted to stay in Atlanta. We’ve already seen that he was willing to take less for even longer term with NJ.”
Hokie, the Devils contract is more than what we offered him, but I agree with your point. We are not a preferred destination and we have to overpay.
“Anyone picking up on a pattern yet?”
Will you stop with this logic you are deduced by analyzing the solid information we know?!? Sheesh, get with the program will ya and start dreaming up faulty logic based on flimsy information such as the Spirit Squad isn’t Cheap Cheap Cheap, they’re Great Great Great, it’s not that these players don’t want to sign here, it’s not that we can’t spend the money to be competitive, we choose not to sign guys long term that we give up a boat load of assets for!!!
Adam
July 30th, 2010
9:23 am
The key for this team, like I said last summer, is to host 4 home playoff games minimum, preferably 6-8. Yes that means winning at least 1 series. Why is that “The Key” you ask? Because until that happens this team will have the same disadvantage it’s had for the last several seasons. AN INTERNAL CAP!
MashaPlayer7
July 30th, 2010
9:30 am
I think calling the team cheap at this point is unwarranted. In the past, yes. But our new focus on a “team identity”, not a “Kovy/Hossa/Heatley” identity allows the wealth to be spread out more. And don’t forget these are young players who don’t have leverage to demand the big paychecks…although they will come some day. We can only hope so.
Just think of the Blackhawks; outside of the ridiculous Hossa and Campbell contracts, they are now having to pay for the success of their young players (Niemi, Toews, Keith, etc.). If we win the Cup or go far in the playoffs, I think all of us fans beg that we have the problem of retaining Bogosian, Enstrom, Little, Kane, etc….
I like the philosophy….and having some major cap room allows us to pick up a sensible salary dump in September or maybe a big name player at the mid-season to help give us that push into the playoffs.
DJ
July 30th, 2010
9:53 am
The “key” is way more than hosting 4 playoff games oh keymaster Adam. The Thrash need to create the buzz and hype that Atlanta sports fans in this market tend to attach to. With that “buzz,” people will once again to pack Philips. This team WILL win. Playoffs will happen. Count it.
Hey Rawhide, Keep it up man! Love how you care!
GaVaHokie
July 30th, 2010
10:07 am
I like the philosophy….and having some major cap room allows us to pick up a sensible salary dump in September or maybe a big name player at the mid-season to help give us that push into the playoffs.
Actually, that has been a Waddell philosophy… always leaving cap room for the March trade deadline. (FWIW)
DWTOO
July 30th, 2010
10:15 am
Per our friends @ TSN. Blake Wheeler 2.2 for one year.
MP7 – have to respectfully disagree. ASG is cheap, cheap, cheap (as Stroz says). We’ve been a bargain basement team from day one. The only change this year is we’ve got some up and comers on the roster. Hope that things change and we can retain some long term.
rob
July 30th, 2010
10:43 am
2 sides to every story, and this one shows it. Only time will tell because obviously no one is going to change the other sides mind, just going to continue to go back and forth. As long as we can all agree that we are fans of the team…..
Ryan C
July 30th, 2010
10:45 am
Does anyone else think that if Chicago can’t pay Niemi that we should offer them OPie at the 2.3 mill for two years and get Niemi in a trade? I like Niemi’s upside more then OPie’s and either way they are both young, and Dud’s has the in with Chi-town, just sayin’ it, anyone else thinking it?
Smoothie
July 30th, 2010
10:52 am
Jay Feaster was truly the mastermind in Tampa, not Rick Dudley!!
Bwaaa haaaa haaa haaaa
He got Ian White for the bargain basement price of $2.9 M barely quadrupling his previous salary. Great job Jay!!
Mikey
July 30th, 2010
11:08 am
I agree with rob. I would much rather be in a position where we are closer to the floor than the cap. Gives us room to maneuver for trade deadline deals if we are in the playoff hunt.
There is a difference between being “cheap” and managing your money/assets wisely.
Trick is getting into the playoff hunt. And I mean realistically, not like last winter when we were in it because so many other teams in the east were mediocre.
rob
July 30th, 2010
11:08 am
even if they can pay Niemi, from the sounds of the article on the arbitration hearing and his agent…..Niemi is not happy about the whole situation, and while I am glad they got the Cup instead of the Bums, how do you think this dismantling and shakeup is affecting the team there? It has to be tough for all involved, fans and players, to watch this and wonder if they will get another run like this soon.
Adam
July 30th, 2010
11:16 am
DJ, you’ve got to crawl before you can walk. Keymaster Adam says the key is to get those 4-8 home games in the PO so the budget can go up the following year and the team can take the next step. A deep run into the PO.
I’m all for leaving room for trade deadline moves. But 1/4 or more of the cap is a bit much, no?
R. Stroz
July 30th, 2010
11:53 am
There is a difference between being “cheap” and managing your money/assets wisely.
Yes, there is. Managing your assets wisely is tying them up for five years while they are in their mid 20s instead of waiting until they are in their late 20’s, where you’ll have them under contract in their waning years.
The Thrashers have been in the bottom 20% of the NHL payroll structure for all but one year of their existence. They have only made the playoffs one season in ten years.
For those of you who are relatively new, this is the business model the ASG employs. Bruce Levenson even bragged about it at last year’s Towne Hall Meeting, pointing out how well the Atlanta Hawks were doing with a low payroll relative to the rest of the league.
The owners are proud of their “cheapness” thinking they are smarter than everyone else. Rather “blissful” aren’t they.
Now, after years of killing their fan base, they finally decided to bring in someone else to improve the organization’s image.
I applaud the changes, however, if the individuals brought in to fix things find out that ownership isn’t willing to “pony up” in order to maintain the needed adjustments, I wouldn’t expect to see Dudley, Rammer, or Torchetti here three years from now.
The writing is already starting to appear.
Joe Friday
July 30th, 2010
12:00 pm
“It has to be tough for all involved, fans and players, to watch this and wonder if they will get another run like this soon.”
I am a Hawks fan as are many of my buds up in Chicago. Believe you me, no one is over the buzz yet or worried in the least. Big Buf turning into a hero and the newbie bandwagon fans up there were bummed to see him go, but they’ve let none of the key guys go. Sopel, Eager, Ladd, are all replaceable but Big Buf is not. However, all the fans up there know he stunk it up in the regular season, so the key to Buf is if he can bring it all regular season, that will be interesting to see here. I’m worried he dogs it, but then we can put him back on defense (did you know he’s really a dman?).
Toews, Kaner, Hoss, Sharp, Bolland, Keith, Campbell, Hjalmarsson, Seabrook are all staying and the Hawks are the prohibitive favorites again, name a club right now that has a better lineup (Pens could hang with them and I’d really like to see that Final this year). The plan for Huet is to bury his contract in the minors (nice to have an owner that will go max cap and take an extra $5.6m and bury it in the minors, eh?). Niemi is not the end all be all. Goal was the weak link on the Hawks all year. He made me nervous all freakin year with his tending. He played decent in the playoffs and that absolute wealth of talent in front of him carried the team to the win. Niemi is expendable. Turco will be brought in if Niemi has to go.
The thought of mine and the other Hawk faithful is can we win 2 or 3 in a row ala the Isles clubs, Oilers, or dominate for years like the Wings.
It’s kind of an interesting position I’m in. I had season tix to the Hawks back in the day (Savard, Secord, Lamar days) but the Hawks were always hamstrung by their Waddell at the top (Dollar Bill Wirtz). Things changed for the Hawks when they changed at the top and Dollar Bill went to the great bar in the sky . . . and Rocky took over. The moves he made were so quick and so decisive and so needed, things really took off. I know the same can happen here, but the old Waddell/Spirit mentality at the top has to go for that to happen. But at least Dudley is shaping some things first. The biggest long term big picture help this club can have is a new owner who wants to win and Waddell gone. Dudley has a track record of helping to turn a club around for a couple years, then he goes and the bigger gun comes in and puts the finishing touches on his building process to get a club over the top. Step 1 has happened, Dudley is GM. Step 2 is a new owner.
Mikey
July 30th, 2010
12:10 pm
RStroz, I understand what you’re saying but I have to believe Dudley, Ramsay and Torchetti knew what they were getting into when they came here. They knew who the owners were and what the history has been as far as any internally set budget.
Given the choice, I’d rather be a penny over the floor than a penny under the cap.
Red Light
July 30th, 2010
12:16 pm
Hawks Bleeding Red…Losing Money That Is
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0730-confidential-hawks-20100730,0,1613106.column
R. Stroz
July 30th, 2010
12:28 pm
Given the choice, I’d rather be a penny over the floor than a penny under the cap.
I’d like to see a payroll somewhere in the middle of the heap for once.
rob
July 30th, 2010
12:34 pm
Yes, I know Buff played d. And I realize they still have a large group of talent there, and Niemi seemed to have Pavs penchant for sliding out of postion, but they still lost pieces and I don’t see it being over yet. They have a great group but will somehow have to get the little parts that make the whole together again, that was all I was saying. If they do it good, the league needs a change of power and it is good for it, but it has to be kind of uneasy watching how fast the changes are happening.
As for the situation here, and I know this is a stretch and all….but. Who’s to say that the Thrashers don’t cause a bit of a stir around here and get some fans back in the seat. They make the PO and let’s say they win a game or 2, maybe even get a series (who knows). Duds turns to the octotards and says, “will ya look at that. Now let’s spend a little more and see if I can make you guys some money?” He will have shown a short time turnaround on investment here. Something dumbwad NEVER did, which probably soured the octotards on the team as they watched the Thrashers become a moneypit to them.
Since that scenario hasn’t played out here before (and still hasn’t yet) who knows if there will be a mentality change even without different owners? I know this is a stretch and you can beat me up about it that is NBD. I would just rather look forward to the upcoming season, go see some enjoyable HOCKEY played here by the hometeam, and have fun with it instead of moping about how sad it all is. Now if this all backfires and we sink faster than the Titanic, I will be one of the ones yelling, but until that time, I am going to remain hopefully optimistic about the boys in blue chances for success.
Alan R.
July 30th, 2010
12:35 pm
Red Light: OH NO! We simply CANNOT have any teams losing money! Especially in America! Move ‘em to Goodsoil, SK! A Good Canadian City™ that KNOWS hockey!!
R. Stroz
July 30th, 2010
12:56 pm
I just figured out how to blow my vuvuzela at a downward angle.
Now, all need is a twitter account.
DWTOO
July 30th, 2010
1:10 pm
Prudent management of assets equates with playoff experience, exciting hockey, and player retention.
Cheap – consistent roster turnover, signing over the hill players, no playoffs, uncompetitive teams.
Which have you seen here?
Dwayne
July 30th, 2010
1:18 pm
There has been a great white shark spotted off the coast of Cape Cod. They are not closing the beaches there.
If only there was a popular movie to remind them of what a bad decision that is.
rob
July 30th, 2010
1:35 pm
DW,
“seen” being the key. Yes it is our history, but the only history we have known here is “dumbwad in charge”. And even if they are not going to let Duds spend, I think this has to be one of the better teams they have iced here. They should compete if nothing else, and as close as they were to the PO last year, how many games did they take the entire night off collectively as a team? I hazard a guess there won’t be too many of those this year without serious repercussions on and off the ice. The mentality is already changing to an extent. Embrace it and hope it continues to do so!!! LOL Glass is half full here IMO and I for one will buy into it, and if I am disappointed by it, oh well.
kracker
July 30th, 2010
1:36 pm
Nice point, Eric @8:45AM. Yes, no one did mention that, though it may have been referenced in passing. I rarely have time to read everything here at work.
Joe Friday
July 30th, 2010
1:37 pm
“Hawks Bleeding Red…Losing Money That Is”
The Wirtz family has so much money, it’s not even funny, which is why it was so ridiculous that Dollar Bill was so cheap.
DWTOO
July 30th, 2010
1:38 pm
rob – you are right. I was referring to our history. Go into every season optimistic and will this year. And I am with you that we’ll see much better hockey this year.
hockey knowledge
July 30th, 2010
1:48 pm
Joe Friday: the Hawks will be good next year…but they won’t win the cup…they may not even win the Central Division. there are several clubs that have equal or better lineups than the Hawks right now…they may not have lost any key pieces yet…but they have lost significant depth. considering they nearly lost to Nashville early in the playoffs (lucky Hossa was there to score the OT goal and not tossed out of the game) and had a real challange with Philly in the finals prior to having their depth destroyed this offseason it will be even tougher next year…look no further than the Wings as a serious threat…if they add Modano they instantly have 3 highly capable scoring lines…so as far as that matchup goes I’d give offense to Detroit, defense to Chi-town, and goaltending a draw until Niemi/Turco or Howard proves themselves this season…and don’t be too high about Turco…the Wings have had his number his entire career and he hasn’t done anything in the playoffs…at least Niemi has a Cup.
J.B.
July 30th, 2010
2:03 pm
just throwing this out there… Alan Walsh just tweeted that Ruslan Fedotenko would be making a decision soon between a number of offers he’s received. Is it conceivable Dudley made an offer to him? I believe they were in Tampa at the same time correct? His stats don’t look terrible and he’s not that old. Is there a problem with him of which Im unaware? injuries, attitude, etc.? At a glance to someone who’s not familiar with him, he doesn’t seem like a bad pickup as long as the $$ is right… anyone?
Rawhide
July 30th, 2010
2:04 pm
Meanwhile, on As The Kovalchuk Turns….
Ilya Kovalchuk hearing is to be held early next week.
Adam
July 30th, 2010
2:07 pm
Here is the key (<– my word of the day
) statement from the Bleeding Red article.
“But Wirtz pledged he would never revert to the penny-pinching ways of his father.
“We’re going to do everything we can to win,” team President John McDonough said. “We want this to be a destination for free agents. We want this to be a place where players want to play. … We’re going to charter our players (to away games) and we’re going to stay in hotels that are going to be synonymous with a first-class operation. When Rocky and I first met, we talked about this commitment.”
Can’t say I ever heard the AS make a statement like that…
Not Blind
July 30th, 2010
2:13 pm
If Fedotenko played every night he would never have made it to FA back in the TB days. I put him and Max in the same category: ‘not needed in Atlanta’. Play some young North American chargers from Chicago or play the draft picks or play the young trade acquistions.
Not Blind
July 30th, 2010
2:18 pm
I have a suggestion for a blog topic:
“Rules changes or tweaks you would like to see”
My current pet peeve is the blueline/offsides rules. My idea is to make the blueline much wider to hopefully reduce the numbers of offsides calls and keep play moving. When the puck is coming out of the zone the play is not offsides until the entire puck crosses into the neutral zone. When the puck is entering the zone it’s the other edge of the line.
rob
July 30th, 2010
2:27 pm
that pic of IK doesnt look like someone who just signed a contract to play a game many kids play with wild dreams of the NHL for over $100M. More money than any of us could even imagine or comprehend.
Dwayne
July 30th, 2010
2:29 pm
No need to widen the blue line. Just make the puck smaller.
glovesave29
July 30th, 2010
2:43 pm
Best rule change would be to keep a penalized player in the box for the entirety of his penalty, no matter how many goals are scored. That would certainly make players think twice before they take a stupid penalty. I always think of the 1989 SC Finals game 6…Claude Lemieux had just PLOWED over CGY goalie Mike Vernon, defenseman Dana Murzyn cocks his fist back – about to let Lemieux have it…but holds off and lets the Flames go on the power play where they score and take home the Cup.
Second rule change is to get rid of the trapezoid behind the net. Some goalies are very good at handling the puck. I generally dislike any rule change that restricts a players ability, or that removes a talent from the game.
Want to make this a more attractive place to play? The obvious answer is easy…yeah, to field a good team. But before the paying fans come back…fill the seats with cheap, or even free tickets to the local students. One per student, valid ID required. Philips seats 18,545. Attendance is CLAIMED to be 13,607 (yeah, I know!). There are 4,938 empty seats on average. Within 2 miles of Philips, there are over 61,750 college students at nearby campuses. Give ‘em $3 beer too. Get the place loud and packed. Lets get a better atmosphere in the barn.
Alan R.
July 30th, 2010
2:55 pm
But before the paying fans come back…fill the seats with cheap, or even free tickets to the local students.
Best idea I’ve heard yet. $5 nosebleed seats, $10-$15 200s and lower rows of the 300s, and $20 in the upper rows of the 100s. Thoughts?
Joe Friday
July 30th, 2010
2:56 pm
“there are several clubs that have equal or better lineups than the Hawks right now”
lol. Name ‘em. That’s ok, you don’t have to, Wings’ fan (I hated it too when the Wings were awesome and we sucked). Happiest day of a Chicago Hockey fans’ life? When the Dead Things lose, to anyone. Best rivalry in hockey.
glovesave29
July 30th, 2010
3:06 pm
Alan – Pens have something similar before they could fill the Igloo. Students can queue up at 4. Ticket window opens at 7. Any tickets available at that time go to students with $20. Players show up and sign autographs and have giveaways. Local merchants give away t shirts and pizza.
We’d need to take it to a new level. Send players out around campus with vouchers for free or $5 tickets. Vouchers for $3 Bud and/or Miller swill (sorry to fans of those particular brews, but they suck. Like Monty Python said – drinking American beer is like having sex in a canoe…its f%^&#$ing close to water!). We could have the ticket distribution area up on Falcons Landing alongside some tailgating activities. Have street hockey games between rival fraternities. ANYTHING. SOMETHING…
hockey knowledge
July 30th, 2010
3:23 pm
holmstrom–datsyuk–zetterberg
bertuzzi–filpula–franzen
hudler–modano(?)–cleary
helm/abdelkader–draper–eaves/miller
lidstrom–rafalski
kronwall–stuart
ericsson–meech/kindl
howard
osgood
explain to me how that team is not as good/better than the Hawks.
Forwards: Detroit
Defense: Chicago
Goaltender: draw (mainly b/c Howard and Niemi are unproven and Turco/Theodore are not an upgrade over Niemi)
not to mention the Hawks were 2-2-2 against the Wings last year when the Wings were decimated by injuries…and the Hawks have yet to beat them in the playoffs…so Detroit still holds the mental edge here.
volgrad1985
July 30th, 2010
3:40 pm
Can anyone tell me whether the dates for training camp have been announced? If so, when is it please?
Joe Friday
July 30th, 2010
3:46 pm
Are they gonna issue Lidstrom a cane this year in training camp? Ya know, to be able to get from the locker room out to the ice . . .
I love it, the rivalry is back! Giddyup.
Flagstaff
July 30th, 2010
3:51 pm
Not Blind: Right now, that seems exactly like what Dudley may do. At least, I think so.
Flagstaff
July 30th, 2010
3:52 pm
I mean the part about young North Americans / draft picks from Chicago.
Red Light
July 30th, 2010
3:56 pm
Training camp opens on Sept. 17 or 18 I believe.
Joe Friday
July 30th, 2010
4:04 pm
Wings fan, tell ya what. To be nice, I’ll arrange for our young whipper snappers like Kaner, Toews, and Keith to wheel Holmstrom, Bertuzzi, Modano, Draper, Lidstrom out from their handicapped bus into the arena before each game . . . it’s the sporting thing to do.
R. Stroz
July 30th, 2010
4:09 pm
This is LOL funny and proof Eklund is a dope:
Pretty amazing Andy Sutton is still out there. He brings a solid 3/4 to your team. The Sabres love him and could use his game in transition.
I guess Eklund has a fetish for pylons.
R. Stroz
July 30th, 2010
4:10 pm
Joe Bob Friday – Make sure there is some Icy/Hot in the bus.
glovesave29
July 30th, 2010
4:13 pm
Stroz, you can quote ANYTHING Eklund says to make him look dumb!
Brendan
July 30th, 2010
5:14 pm
Rawhide, nice of you to give Trixie the morning off. Then again, she’s earned it.
Rawhide
July 30th, 2010
5:40 pm
Tampa Bay Lightning sign free agent center Dominic Moore to a 2-year deal.
Brendan – If you define from midnight to 7:00 am as “morning”…then yes, I do give her the “morning” off. Girl does need her beauty rest ya know.
rob
July 30th, 2010
6:17 pm
calling Sutton a pylon gives pylon’s a bad name
Rawhide
July 30th, 2010
9:09 pm
Can anyone tell me whether the dates for training camp have been announced? If so, when is it please?
volgrad1985 – I just saw where Ben Wright answered that question via twitter. He says that the training camp dates have not yet been set.
Also, I was reminded that Anthony Stewart is another RFA yet to be signed.
Hokey P. Clisters
July 30th, 2010
10:29 pm
Let’s sign the Pylon for 1 year. If he’s unable to crack our lineup we could always use him as a parking assistant at Phillips. Or even better…we could use him as a big orange vuvuzela!
Brendan
July 30th, 2010
10:33 pm
Just throwing this out there, but the Anaheim Ducks bought out Nathan Oystrick. To my knowledge, he has not re-signed with anyone, and is an available free agent. Here’s the link. http://stage.www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/anaheim-ducks-buy-out-contract-of-defenceman-nathan-oystrick-97522374.html?viewAllComments=y
Hokey P. Clisters
July 30th, 2010
10:38 pm
Man, wouldn’t it be great to see Laddy and that SC trophy on Brasstown Bald next year?…..Yooohoooo!
Flagstaff
July 30th, 2010
10:39 pm
Nice image, Stroz.
goose
July 31st, 2010
12:37 am
Fedotenko was a -17 on Pittsburgh with only 30 points in 80 games just imagine what his plus minus would be here
also wheeler was awarded less in arbitration than C-Mac that’s not right
Sharon
July 31st, 2010
12:41 am
Retention Deficit Disorder… now that’s funny!
Budder
July 31st, 2010
9:26 am
Regarding “Dollar Bill” Wirtz and his financial legacy, here’s an excerpt from Wikipedia bio:
Wirtz (via his stake in Wirtz Corp) was most notable as owner of the Chicago Blackhawks; Wirtz Realty, a large real estate owner in Chicago; and Judge & Dolph Ltd., a major liquor distributor selling over 33 percent of all liquor in Illinois. Wirtz Corp. also has interests in banking and insurance, and co-owned the United Center with Jerry Reinsdorf. Crain’s Chicago Business in 2004 estimated the company’s 2003 revenues as US$1.3 billion. Overall, it is estimated that Bill Wirtz’s personal holdings (including stock in several companies, including Alberto-Culver and Firstar Bank) were worth about US$3 to $4 billion.”
Re: Fedotenko, Not Blind and goose both nailed it. Ten years ago, there was hope; now, just a Poor Man’s Yashin, except without the skills.
J-man
July 31st, 2010
12:27 pm
Brendan – Let’s not overreact here. The whole Vanek thing was 100% Kevin Lowe, who did such a “good” job as GM that he’s not a GM anymore. Every year it’s the same thing – there’s maybe 1 RFA who gets a contract offer and it’s not a major star. If someone wants to offer Bogosian a 17 year deal, he’s gone. That is the reality of it. But what are the odds of some other GM being dumb enough to do that? Those long term deals cut both ways. DiPietro sure doesn’t look like a great signing. Bogo could always get hurt or simply not develop like we think. Look at Bowmeester. He’s not on a decade long deal but he also may not return to the form he showed in Florida. The reality is that is someone wants to poach one of our RFAs and offer them the moon, we cannot stop it. It’s up to the GM to sign those guys to long term deals to prevent that from happening like Washington, Pittsburgh, etc. etc. etc. do. But yes, you are quite right to question this as a long term strategy. I just think we need a little more time before we worry. If Dudley does this again next year, then that’s the time to worry. If nobody on the team ever signs a multi-year contract with him as GM, yes, it’s time to worry.
glovesave29
July 31st, 2010
1:00 pm
The arbitrator has awarded Niemi $2.75M
R. Stroz
July 31st, 2010
1:06 pm
Someone should tell Ben Wright that Anthony Stewart re-signed on July 16th.
According to capgeek.com, the contract is a two way, one year contract.
http://capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=830
I guess Ben is misinformed.
Red Light
July 31st, 2010
1:57 pm
Win a Stanley Cup, and get a $1.923 million raise. Looks arbiters like goalies, a lot!
Sparky (Smoothie)
July 31st, 2010
2:17 pm
I think the ruling for Niemi is very fair. I was thinking the arbiter could get a little crazy like the one for MacArthur and grant him $3.25 M or more. Considering how many UFA goalies there are coming off of an inflated deal between $4 and $5 M, all of whom haven’t won a Cup, I think the $2.75 is quite reasonable. Blackhawks will still have a hard time making this work unless they demote Huet to Rockford and go with Niemi / Crawford.
Alan R.
July 31st, 2010
2:52 pm
Smoothie – Pretty sure that was the Hawks plan all along. It made sense in my head, anyway.
Dwayne
July 31st, 2010
6:24 pm
Isn’t Anthony Stewart a race car driver? Why would a hockey team sign him?
Brendan
July 31st, 2010
7:17 pm
J-Mann, certainly Kevin Lowe was not the greatest GM in NHL history. But, at least he realized what his “situation” was in Edmonton. Namely, that it’s difficult to attract free agents to a barren wilderness, where your dog runs away for 3-straight days. And it’s cold. Very, very cold. My point with Vanek is this. Buffalo, like Atlanta, seems to have ‘player retention’ issues. At least, that’s how I see it, as a non-Sabres fan. I’m just an outsider. But I find it quite a curiosity that J.P. Dumont, Mike Grier (at least at first abandoned the franchise), Chris Drury, Danny Briere, Jay McKee, Brian Campbell, Tony Lydman, Jaroslav Spacek, and now Henrik Tallinder have all opted to play elsewhere, than to re-sign with Buffalo. What gives? I merely cited that Vanek may not be a Sabre, today, if Kevin Lowe hadn’t made the offersheet to him, to lock him up. I can’t tell you if Sabre fans preferred that he be let go or are utterly thrilled that he has remained there so long. I’ll let them weigh in on that one.
What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?, you might be thinking. Well, Atlanta seems to have the very same problem that Buffalo does. We don’t seem to be able to keep our players, even our very own draft picks, past their RFA eligibility. I’m not exactly a fan of RFA offersheets, J-mann. Not really. I understand that it’s a perfectly ‘fair’ and ‘legal’ aspect of the CBA. But if we got one and matched it, at least we’d have the player under contract beyond the RFA years. And that’d be nice!
Re: 17-year deals, I’m not a fan of them. That seems inherently “unnatural.” Too many things can go wrong. A player can get injured. There’s insurance to pay on a contract like that. He can fail to develop properly. With his contract locked up, he may not care too much about his performance. His money is guaranteed. Even if he gets bought out, the team still have to pay him a fraction of his contract for the remaining years. How long we were paying Zhitnik, after buying him out?
I’m actually “fine” with Dudley taking a Missouri-like stance on players. As in, “Show me, first,” then I’ll pay you. Allright. But don’t forget the “pay you” part, and at MARKET VALUE. Why should players sign for LESS than their value? The only time I can think that it might happen … is a situation like Brodeur, where the player just doesn’t want to leave, nor cripple his team’s ability to be competitive in the postseason. The other situation is the PROACTIVE RFA contract, whereby the player agrees to forego his UFA years to be paid like a UFA now. The idea for the GM is … you’re overpaying the player NOW to underpay him LATER, during his UFA years, factoring “inflation.” The player might be amenable to that, since it’s guaranteed money and years. If Dudley doesn’t want to save money, that’s fine. I can appreciate his stance, wanting to evaluating the player(s) a bit more. But that player will NOT then turn-around an offer some discount. Why should he?
If ‘internal caps’ didn’t exist … and ‘cost’ were not an issue in Atlanta, I’d never make a post like this. There’d be no need to economize on a player’s contract. The owners would just pay what the going rate is for the player. Is that what’s happening in Atlanta? We’re right at the FLOOR of the cap right now. When Bergsfors and Little get signed, we’ll be over it by a few million. How nice, I suppose.
Hokey P. Clisters
July 31st, 2010
8:53 pm
UPDATE: Kovy renogiates contract with NJ for 500 billion and the state of Vermont. NHL commish is reviewing to see if contract has circumvented the crap.
Jameson
August 1st, 2010
1:23 pm
Brendan- I’m not sure if it was my comment that you were remembering, but I said I thought Little was the most likely RFA to up for longer than a season.
Let’s play some arm-chair-GM. Would you offer either Little or Bergfores a 4 year $8 million contract? Do you think either of them would sign such a deal?
Brendan
August 1st, 2010
1:49 pm
Jameson, right you are; it was your comment I was remembering. If either Bergfors or Little would agree for $2 million-a-year, for the next four years, I’m make that offer immediately. I doubt they’d agree to it.
Tony C.
August 1st, 2010
3:12 pm
hell yes you’d make that deal
Alan R.
August 2nd, 2010
3:00 am
Oh please oh please oh please.
@Russostrib According to sources, #Thrashers center Todd White has been traded to the #nyrangers. No word what the Rangers got back #nhl #nyr
Acer
August 2nd, 2010
6:41 am
Oh no, not our #1 center.
Let’s see the details before starting the party.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
7:12 am
I saw that about an hour ago, Alan….maddening not to know what’s coming back! Maybe we keep his sticks since they didn’t work so well for Todd last season.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
7:16 am
Depending on what we get back (like a 4th rounder) that frees up $2.3M for Max or another forward. I know, a 4th rounder might be aiming high….but it’s the Rangers….so Staal?? Didn’t think so, either.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
7:28 am
C Viv has it…
ajcthrashers Thrashers have traded Todd White to New York Rangers. More details to come.
Jameson
August 2nd, 2010
7:46 am
My feeling is that if neither of them are willing to accept this type of deal, we probably won’t see more than 1 or 2 years each.
hip czech
August 2nd, 2010
7:51 am
Todd White traded to NYR….yes!!!!!!!
http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Grinder/entry/view/73170/report_rangers_trade_for_thrashers_white
I don’t care what we get back
hip czech
August 2nd, 2010
7:51 am
Todd White traded to NYR….yes!!!!!!!
http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Grinder/entry/view/73170/report_rangers_trade_for_thrashers_white
I don’t care what we get back
hip czech
August 2nd, 2010
7:51 am
Todd White traded to NYR….yes!!!!!!!
http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Grinder/entry/view/73170/report_rangers_trade_for_thrashers_white
I don’t care what we get back
hip czech
August 2nd, 2010
7:51 am
Todd White traded to NYR….yes!!!!!!!
http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Grinder/entry/view/73170/report_rangers_trade_for_thrashers_white
I don’t care what we get back
hip czech
August 2nd, 2010
7:51 am
whoa, sorry for the hiperactive enter key!
hip czech
August 2nd, 2010
7:53 am
and sorry for not reading page 2 first
have to forgive my excitement of getting rid of a wasted roster spot. Let’s see what Dudley fills in with…there were rumors that the Thrashers were interested in Kyle Wellwood
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
8:02 am
hip’s link says White could play on the 3rd line with wingers Marian Gaborik and Alexander Frolov. He mighe actually work there. Meaning, we may have actually gotten something of value for TW.
Dwayne
August 2nd, 2010
8:07 am
Watch Charmin have a good year, leave all of us pulling a JA….WTF????
R. Stroz
August 2nd, 2010
8:09 am
OMG, it’s Charmin independence day.
Red Light
August 2nd, 2010
8:14 am
Sather strikes again!
Rawhide
August 2nd, 2010
8:19 am
I don’t give a rats butt if we get nothing in return. If the Rangers simply take White and his $2.35 mil off our hands, I’d take it. If we get even as much as a 7th round draft pick…even better. Anything more, better still.
Regardless…Dudley did right!
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
8:29 am
Mmmm, could be just a pick, Rawhide….but w/ the Thrashers already being at or below the cap floor, I’d almost bet on salary coming back our way…either that or a quick signing of Max or another forward.
Dwayne
August 2nd, 2010
8:30 am
When is the Parade??? Break out the vuvuzuelas!!!!
Zoomo
August 2nd, 2010
8:31 am
Great news! Now let’s spend some more money, wisely
R. Stroz
August 2nd, 2010
8:32 am
Dudley is truely on a roll.
Rawhide
August 2nd, 2010
8:33 am
kracker - Salary IS indeed coming back our way. Keep an eye out for C-Viv’s report.
Yes folks…that was what we in the business call “a tease”.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
8:36 am
Oh that’s right…per Ben, White played w/ Gabby in MN…more reason to hope we got a decent return.
Russian
August 2nd, 2010
8:37 am
It will be interesting move. I really want to see someone coming back for White. NYR has a trouble with Cap Salary already. We can help them.
Dwayne
August 2nd, 2010
8:37 am
Strictly based on money received last year, was there a worse player than Charmine?
R. Stroz
August 2nd, 2010
8:40 am
The Rangers now have a new line with Gaborik and White, the Angel Soft line.
TableHockey
August 2nd, 2010
8:44 am
Are we taking a Redden NYR salary dump in exchange for Whitey?
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
8:46 am
Tease us more, RH: Will we be happy? or HAPPY!!!
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
8:47 am
TH, I don’t think Duds wants to sink to Waddell level in one trade.
hip czech
August 2nd, 2010
8:50 am
Dudley would not take Redden’s contract would he? I take back what I said…I don’t care what we get back in return – unless it is Redden
Zoomo
August 2nd, 2010
8:52 am
hmmmm….can’t see much else coming back that makes sense. Drury? doubtful….hmmm
glovesave29
August 2nd, 2010
8:55 am
TH – if we take Redden, I might just go postal today.
TableHockey
August 2nd, 2010
8:56 am
Zoomo – maybe Drury or even Rosival. If it’s a salary dump I would hope its not Redden. Too many years left on that contract.
TableHockey
August 2nd, 2010
8:57 am
I’m with you there glovesave29
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
8:57 am
Roszival or Girardi maybe.
If it’s Redden, the motto IDWT won’t have lasted too long.
Dwayne
August 2nd, 2010
8:58 am
pay half his salary and give the rest to Max.
J.B.
August 2nd, 2010
9:00 am
the rumor is it’s rozsival and a 4th rounder but i don’t know if we gave up something more than just charmin.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
9:01 am
‘Fot The Record’ posted on C Viv’s blog some Ranger spin:
—–It’s like I woke up in The Twilight Zone this morning. Just listen to the spin being put on this by the media for NYR fans:
“…he is a very solid piece to have on the ice. He is pretty much a lock for 40+ points…”
“White not only brings some veteran savvy to a very young team, but he also comes with 43 playoff games of experience under his belt…”
“White brings quite a bit to the table, and even in his advanced age he has a ton of upside.”—–
Red Light
August 2nd, 2010
9:01 am
Has to be a salary dump for NYR, or why do it? Drury or Rozsival to make room for Marc Staal’s salary is my guess. No way the Rangers give up Girardi for Todd White. Not even Sather is that senile.
Russian
August 2nd, 2010
9:02 am
I heard a rumor that we will get Brashir, Rissmiller and 4th round pick next year for Todd White. It will be crazy move and I hope Dudley does not make it happend.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
9:03 am
OMG! C Viv:
ajcthrashers Thrashers trade for Patrick Rissmiller and Donald Brashear.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
9:04 am
Pat Rissmiller RW procpect, $1M this upcoming season, UFA the next season
World Be Free
August 2nd, 2010
9:05 am
Guys, this is a salary and player dump by both teams. Nobody, not even Sather is going to take White for a pick. So get ready and understand the transation for what it is. Everybody wanted white out of here, so we will get what we wanted but we will also pay the price.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
9:07 am
I was wrong. Rissmiller isn’t just a prospect – 18g, 27a in 182 NHL games, almost all w/ the Sharks.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
9:08 am
He’s also big. 6-4, 220
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
9:09 am
Brashear’s a “good guy” now cause he’s our goon. LOL
ChippersLoveChild
August 2nd, 2010
9:10 am
Brashear never plays here… there is no room for him… but OH HAPPY DAY! Goodbye Todd!!
Russian
August 2nd, 2010
9:12 am
Rissmiller is big guy. So what???
WE can get Artuhin for $1.0, at least Arti got speed and he can score. Only one positive thing taht White has been trade.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
9:13 am
I agree, Russian. May be more moves to come from this, who knows…
DowntownATL
August 2nd, 2010
9:13 am
While we slept…
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=29568
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
9:18 am
Ben sez:
BenThrashers Brashear goes straight to waivers and will be bought out if he clears.
That makes more sense.
GaVaHokie
August 2nd, 2010
9:18 am
Bizarre… are we acquiring every big black guy in the league? Can’t imagine Boults and Bogo like this one.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
9:21 am
Rissmiller was apparently a buy-out cnadidate also so….we basically took an AHLer to get rid of White?
GaVaHokie
August 2nd, 2010
9:23 am
Re: Brashear buyout, Yes, that makes sense… Rissmiller for White though? Not so much. I’m not as keen as most for dumping White so quickly.
hip czech
August 2nd, 2010
9:27 am
wow…Eager, Brashear, Boulton, Thorburn…maybe Tiger Williams is next.
I like the direction…bigger and tougher, but wonder whether Brashear even plays here.
Red Light
August 2nd, 2010
9:43 am
It’s easy math: White, $2,375,000 for Rissmiller and Brashear, $2.4 million. Rissmiller becomes the 13th or 14th forward (5th center) who sits in the press box for $1 million, rather than White at $2.375 million. He’s an insurance policy for injuries or if Cormier gets off to a bad start or can’t handle the NHL just yet. Perfectly logical.
Denny
August 2nd, 2010
9:46 am
Gettin to Know Patrick Rissmiller:
6-4 220LBS and 32 years old with 5 years of NHL experience. His best years 2006 and 2007 with 23 points and 17 points respectively. Here is what one hockey writer wtiter wrote after his only 2 goal game in Janruary, 2008:
Rissmiller, an undrafted 29-year-old who has made himself indispensable as a checking forward, played 138 mostly thankless games over four seasons with San Jose before his first multigoal game. “My role is more defensive here, checking and killing penalties,” Rissmiller said. “This was one of those nights where the puck was following me around, I guess.” Rissmiller has three of his nine points in his last four games, but despite the sudden outburst, he is still far more valuable to the Sharks than Fantasy owners.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
9:50 am
Agree, Red Light. Though I read Brashear is one year remaining at $1.4M cap hit. So if we buy Brashear out that’s about $.35M for the next 3 seasons. Do I have that about right, folks? Or not?
Joe Friday
August 2nd, 2010
9:50 am
The report of us waiving Brashear better be true, that guy is an maroon. I guess keeping Rissmiller instead of just buying out White and being left with nothing is a win.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
9:52 am
So Rissmiller = competition in camp and injury insurance. He played a lot of AHL the last two seasons so I assume he’s on a two-way.
rob
August 2nd, 2010
9:57 am
Now this trade is just funny. Thrashers:”we don’t want to take him you keep him”. Rangers:”we don’t want him either, you take him”. Thrashers:”OK we’ll take him. Hey Brashear, they didn’t want you, and we don’t want you either, but we need this other guy gone, so while we just traded for you, we also just waived you. It was nice not needing your services here.”
rob
August 2nd, 2010
10:02 am
It would seem that we are about due a shopping trip with as much room as we have cleared. Of course if they would just give our RFA a nice upgrade that would be nice too.
World Be Free
August 2nd, 2010
10:03 am
I.D.W.T.
Smoothie
August 2nd, 2010
10:04 am
Good move by Duds to effectively buy-out White, but for much less money. I think we end up saving about $800 k over two years if Brashear doesn’t get claimed…and I doubt he will.
Now does this mean we go out and sign Matthew Lombardi? We can now afford to sign him for $3-3.5 M or bring Max back for mid $2s.
Looks like Rismiller is insurance for Cormier, leadership on the farm and added penalty killing depth in the event of an injury. Heck, I would not be surprised if Rismiller ended up on the 4th line and Cormier playing with Slater & Laddy on the 3rd. That’s how much Dudley seems to like Patrice.
Red Light
August 2nd, 2010
10:07 am
Lombardi is in Nashville now Smoothie. Where ya playing Eager in your above scenario?
Rissmiller is not on a two-way deal according to CapGeek.com. Straight $1 million deal. I think it costs $938k to buyout Brash, 67 percent of $1.4 million. So, the savings is $437,000 if it all works out the way it is supposedly planned, because if you bought out Todd White, it would have cost a total of $1.503 million over two seasons.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
10:07 am
Oh, I see what you were probably saying, Red Light. The $2.4M figure is adding Brashear and Rissmiller’s salarys. Well, it seems that Brashear’s 1.4 will be either gone or greatly reduced via waivers or a buyout.
Smoothie
August 2nd, 2010
10:15 am
R/L – oh yeah! Duh. Forgot about that. Oh well, bring back Max for a year or commit to letting Little play top line minutes to boost his confidence and productivity. There are still a bunch of 2nd / 3rd line tweeners out there such as a Raffi Torres.
As for Eager in my scenario, I had him on the 4th line RW with Rismiller at LW and Thorburn at C, his natural position. Slater on the LW with Cormier at C and Laddy playing the off wing on the right side.
Red Light
August 2nd, 2010
10:27 am
Here’s the question of the day?
If you were coach, would Byfuglien or Ladd get the chance to play on one of the top 2 lines? I see where Smoothie is leaning, but what about the rest of you?
R. Stroz
August 2nd, 2010
10:38 am
The Thrashers now have to spend about 8 million spread over 4 roster spots to insure meeting the payroll floor.
When you’re calculating payroll, remember to remove the contract bonus numbers.
Smoothie
August 2nd, 2010
10:40 am
Stroz – at least $5 M will got to Bergfors and Little combined.
Who would you like to get with the remaining $2.5 – 3.5 M?
rob
August 2nd, 2010
11:00 am
R/L,
If Buff comes here with drive and motivation I say him, but if he wants to mope then go Ladd. Which Buff will show may well be a tell tale for us.
kracker
August 2nd, 2010
11:03 am
Per C Viv on Brashear cap hit:
ajcthrashers Brashear salary $1.3 million. Thrashers $866,000 over two years. Including signing bonus (paid by Rangers) cap hit is $533,000 and $433,000.
Not as bad as I was thinking, only two years.
Tom
August 2nd, 2010
11:05 am
Sign Neimi —- TODAY — Then we have a true 1st Goalie, Pavelic can head to Chicago to season, and Mason can be a backup. I like the idea of being Chicago south.
Thrashers27
August 2nd, 2010
11:10 am
Somewhere Zach Bogosian had to clear the lump out of his throat when he first heard “Brashear” in return for White. I’m sure he then breathed a sigh of relief to find out that his friend Donald would not be in camp this fall to remind him of the drubbing he took in his first ever NHL fight.
I’ll never understand why Zach took it upon himself to fight that big goon. I will miss seeing Boults pound on that giant noggin though. (Look at it, it’s like Sputnik, I tell ya! It’s got it’s own solar system! Heed, pants now!!!)
Smoothie
August 2nd, 2010
11:15 am
Thrashers27 – “look at the size of that heed! It’s a veritable planetoid! Heed! Get down!”
Awesome SIMAAM reference! Love it!
glovesave29
August 2nd, 2010
11:18 am
I thought about Niemi / Mason – but I cannot see the Thrashers spending that kind of money on two starting goalies. But it’d be nice…give each 41 games and be rested come playoff time
R. Stroz
August 2nd, 2010
11:26 am
If the Thrashers bring in another Finnish goaltender, stendec will crap his pants.
R. Stroz
August 2nd, 2010
11:27 am
Smoothie – I’d like to see Max signed for two years.
Hokey Clisters
August 2nd, 2010
11:28 am
Sorry guys for not commenting earlier but I got stuck in the restroom. Seems that someone has removed the Charmin???
UPDATE: Toys R Us is communicating interest in buying the Thrashers. With Brashier and Cormier they like our new image: Goons R Us.
I know Brashier will probably not play….I just wanted to say Goons R Us. The excitement of the day has messed up my head.
Midfield
August 2nd, 2010
11:30 am
It’s like reading a newspaper report on one’s mother-in-law shopping at K-Mart.
Badger Bob
August 2nd, 2010
11:33 am
I was intrigued by the trade Pavs for Niemi idea floated by one of you posters last week. Now that Niemi is a UFA, signing him and having an incredibly well priced Pavs as trade bait is intriguing.
And if the next poll is “How many games will Brashear play here”, my vote is “hopefully zero”. The NHL is better without idiods like him.
Badger Bob
August 2nd, 2010
11:34 am
idiots… yes, I’m an idiod too when it comes to spelling…
Hockey Biltong
August 2nd, 2010
11:46 am
I think Ladd plays ahead of Buf…
Smoothie
August 2nd, 2010
11:48 am
Brashear will be bought out but as Falconer pointed out, his B/O does not give us CAP relief, simply frees up some actual cash. While we only have to pay Brashear $866 (NY picks up the signing bonus) in cash, his $1.4 M cap hit remains as he’s over 35. So that will help us get to the floor along with the RFA deals for Litts and Bergie. We may still need to make another move as we may still be $1.5 M or so under the floor even if Cormier and Pettersson make the team.
lynx
August 2nd, 2010
11:49 am
“That logic seems fairly sound when you have such promising youngsters that are in the pipeline like Patrice Cormier, Arturs Kulda, Paul Postma, Carl Klingberg, Fredrik Pettersson, Alexander Burmistrov, etc”
That’s right, Cormier, Kulda, Postma can blay good in Thrashers this season. Specially I prefere to see Kulda as sixth blueliner, but not these sucker Valabik.
glovesave29
August 2nd, 2010
11:54 am
The Hawks would be smart to sign Niemi and trade him for Pavs…sure beats watching him walk for nothing. My gut says he ends up in Philly.
rob
August 2nd, 2010
11:55 am
Smoothie,
Did you use the idea of the Thrashers and CAP relief together?!?!?!
glovesave29
August 2nd, 2010
11:55 am
Hawks just signed Marty Turco
TableHockey
August 2nd, 2010
11:58 am
Whoa – just heard Chicago signed Turco and let Niemi walk. This is a busy Monday in the NHL…
Rawhide
August 2nd, 2010
11:58 am
Tough coming up with a header for today’s new blog. I though of things like “Thrasherville White Sale” and “Thrasherville goes through a White Out”.
But in the end I settled on….
schroeder
August 2nd, 2010
11:59 am
Guys, this is getting fun! Watching Dudley go about this is nothing short of fantastic. Getting rid of #12 and lowering the buyout in the process.That is what a veteran GM does,he is creative and still betters this team. Based on what has transpired to this point all I can say is I am going to sit back and watch, I have every confidence that our goal production needs will be addressed at exactly the right time and in a way that will satisfy most all on this blog. Personally as a former goaltender I would love to see Niemi signed and dangle Pavs for a top 6 forward ………… I can dream can’t I
Smoothie
August 2nd, 2010
12:00 pm
rob – some were thinking Brashear’s B/O would give us Cap relief compared to White’s B/O were he healthy to be B/O.
But yes, that’s kind of funny putting those two things in a sentence together. Chuckle, chuckle.
World Be Free
August 2nd, 2010
12:03 pm
The White trade was the best we could hope for, both teams kinda emptied their dumspters. I guess having a small budget made it impossible to take Rosival or Redden. Duds is smart enough to stay away from both players under any conditions.
During the playoffs, we talked about the impact Brian Campbell’s contract would have on the Hawks. Soupie’s commitment is like and elephant on Stan Bowman’s back and he’s only the 4th best defensenman on the team. Campbell’s deal is the worst contract in the game and the Bowman, the deal will last for several more years. At least they have a place for Huet-in the minors!
Tom
August 2nd, 2010
12:04 pm
A shellshocked goaltender typically does not have a very good go of it. That is why I think the Thrashers would be a good fit for Niemi right now.
– They have a coach and 4 teamates that he played with on the STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONSHIP team to make him feel comfortable.
– He would get as much or as little playing time needed to get back into shape mentally for the playoffs as the team would be very deep.
– The team would be able to pay him well as we need to get to the cap minimum.
– He even knows the GM of the team as they worked together in Chicago.
All in all it would be a good fit for the young goaltender even on a 1 year deal.
Badger Bob
August 2nd, 2010
12:05 pm
Smoothie, those numbers make this deal look like it has DWs fingerprints all over it. I see him telling Octo%$^&@ how he can save money AND artificially get us closer to the cap floor, and them high fiving him.
The optimists view on Les Thrash this summer is that we are doing more than almost every other team to keep payrolls down (Pavs, Eager and Ladd all with annual salaries below what I’d guessed, plus the CMac snub). Makes me feel less guilty about getting money from the rich teams when we are doing them all that great service. But certainly cements our image as the cheapskates. And here I had hoped the $101M Kovy offer would start to erase that image.
Denny
August 2nd, 2010
12:36 pm
Badger Bob – you dishonor the Wisconsin tradition of prudent player contract management as exemplified by their two professional franchises, Brewers and Packers. I am happy to see the Thrashers taking the same path of developing from within, smart trades and spending FA money wisely.
They are building the Thrashers the RIGHT way FINALLY!