What is the number eight pick worth?
Earlier in the week, Ben Wright posted a pretty nice two-part interview with the new GM of the Thrashers, Rick Dudley. In case ya missed it, here is part one…and here is part two.
Among the number of subjects covered, one question Dudley responded to in the second part of the piece had to do with the upcoming entry draft…specifically, would he consider trading away one of the Thrashers’ two first-round picks? Currently the hold the eighth overall as well as New Jersey’s later in the round obtained via the Kovalchuk trade.
Dudley’s response…”I didn’t enter any of those drafts thinking “I’m going to trade this” but people get in a frenzy around the draft and want to deal. I’ve already had a couple people call who want to move up or add a second first round pick. And do you know what? They’re available. There’s just a price. I have a pretty good knowledge of what they’re worth and if you want to move up to eight or acquire another pick you’re going to have to pony up with something, and it’s going to have to be something pretty good because they are very valuable.”
Should Rick Dudley use the 8th overall draft pick to trade for a proven player such as Patrick Sharp, who has 126 goals, 119 assists and is a +40 in 419 games played? (Paul Beaty/Associated Press)
So, they are “available”…but at a “price”.
Given that, I ask you…if the Thrashers are indeed listening to offers for the number eight pick in the draft, what exactly do you think the “price” should be? Do you think Dudley would be wise to consider using that pick…or possibly packaging it with a prospect… to bring in a proven commodity like, say, a Jerome Iginla or Patrick Sharp?
Or are you one who believes that the Thrashers are better off simply using that pick themselves, drafting a young prospect to join the list of others the organization have in the pipeline?
As you ponder your response, let’s take a quick look back at some of the more recent eighth overall picks…a review of what drafting in that slot has gained the team using it. Then we’ll take a look forward at who might be available once the first seven picks in this June’s draft.
Last summer, the Dallas Stars took Scott Glennie with the eighth pick…a forward playing with the Brandon Wheat Kings of the WHL. In three seasons with that team, he has scored 86 goals and 131 assists during 182 regular season games. He has 4 goals and 15 assists in 18 playoff games as well. He is yet to play in an NHL game with the Stars.
In 2008, Denmark’s Mikkel Boedker was the eighth overall selection by the Phoenix Coyotes…the highest-ever drafted Danish player. At the time, he was a member of the OHL’s Kitchener Rangers. The following season he played in 78 games for the Coyotes scoring 11 goals and 17 assists finishing a -6. This past season he played in 14 NHL games and had 3 points and was a +2.
What should Dudley do with the 8th overall draft pick?
- Keep it and draft a promising prospect (38%, 42 Votes)
- Trade it to help bring in a proven talent (62%, 68 Votes)
Total Voters: 110
Loading ...Centerman Zach Hamill was the selection of the Boston Bruins with the 2007 number eight pick. At the time he was playing with the WHL’s Everett Silvertips. Toward the end of the 2007-08 season, he was moved up to the Bruins’ AHL affiliate in Province where he has scored 13 goals and 18 assists in 72 games. He was able to play in one game for Boston at the end of the season, picking up an assist during 12:08 TOI in the 4-3 shootout win against Washington.
Back in 2006, another Silvertip went at the eighth spot as centerman Peter Mueller was picked up by the Coyotes. Mueller played in all 81 games for Phoenix during the 2007-08 season and scored 22 goals and 32 assists. The following season he netted 13 goals and 23 assist in 72 games. Then this past season…after only 4 goals and 17 assists in 54 games…he was traded at the deadline to Colorado along with Kevin Porter in exchange for Wojtek Wolski. In his first game with the Avs he scored once to help them to a 4-3 win over the Ducks, then finished the season scoring 8 more times and chipping in with 11 assist.
Now, looking forward to the players that might be available once the eighth pick rolls around this year…here are just some of the names I have read/heard being kicked around. Please feel free to add/discuss others you might have an eye on.
Mark Pysyk – Defenseman currently playing with the WHL’s Edmonton Oil Kings. He scored 7 goals and 17 assists this past season in 48 games played, though a broken foot shortened his season. In an interview with Glen Erickson of Hockey’s Future, Oil Kings head coach Steve Pleau said of Pysyk, “Ever since he started as a 16-year old with us, he’s been out best defenseman”. Continuing he added, “Mark has good hockey sense, skating is his strength and he makes that first pass very well”.
Emerson Etem – Centerman who led WHL rookies with 37 goals playing in Medicine Hat…a good puck handler with above average skating skills and, according to Phil Foley of the Atlanta Thrashers Examiner, he has spent the last few offseasons training with Chris Chelios, Mike Commodore and Mike Comrie.
Jack Campbell – Goalie for the U.S. National U-18 team who NHL.com’s Adam Kimelman describes as “a big athletic goalie with championship pedigree. I add this option in only for the sake of discussion, as I do not think the Thrashers need to be taking a goalie with the 8th pick.
Ryan Johansen – Centerman with the Portland Winterhawks of the WHL. Last season he scored 25 goals and 44 assists, amassing 53 PIM and a +17 rating. “This kid keeps getting better”, Brad Holland says of Johansen in his mock draft. “Good finish to regular season and great playoffs has ATL ‘reaching’ here”.
Derek Forbort – Defenseman currently with the U.S. National U-18 squad, committed to the University of North Dakota. Hockey’s Future projects him as a Number 1 NHL defender saying, “One of the most talented defensemen in the 2010 draft. Exceptional decision-making. Has the size and skating and is very agile. Doesn’t like to carry the puck, but his passes are laser sharp. He could stand to add a bit of grit to his game.
Alexander Burmistrov – Russian centerman who plays for the Barrie Colts of the OHL. In 62 games last season he had 22 goals and 43 assists. “He’s very imaginative in his plays”, Barrie coach Marty Williamson said of Burmistrov to Alessandro Seren Rosso of Hockey’s Future. “His skill level is obvious. He has a high skill level, loves to make players around him better, he’s a think pass-first kind of player. He’s one of those kind of guys that really makes everybody better on the ice”.
Nino Niederreiter – Another Portland Winterhawk, this Swiss left-winger…nicknamed “El Nino”… netted 36 goals and 24 assists in 65 WHL games last season. Puck Daddy’s Bruce Peter writes of Niederreiter, “He’s a strong winger with decent size (6-1, 205 lbs.) that seems to have the ability to slow the game down when the puck is on his stick”.
So again…do any of these players do anything for you? Is there another prospect that might…or would you rather that 8th overall used to procure a proven commodity should Dudley be approached with such a deal?
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103 comments Add your comment
Red Light
May 7th, 2010
10:06 pm
Excellent information Bill. You sure you’re not secretly pirating internet feeds of the WHL? My take is this: you want a skilled player or a goalie, go to the Q. Wingers who can score or puck movers, go to the O, a tough winger, a brawler or a defensive banger, go to the WHL. Simple formula.
Go Blackhawks!
Red Light
May 7th, 2010
10:06 pm
1st and Second
Sage of Bluesland
May 7th, 2010
10:18 pm
Maybe we’ll keep trading down–and then bluster about “getting the player we wanted all along!”…
…or maybe we’ll deal with our buddies with promises not to take the player(s) other teams covet?
It will be interesting to see what Don does this year, as always….I’m sure we’ll be exploring newer boundaries of incompetence…
Rawhide
May 7th, 2010
10:34 pm
Sage – Interesting that you summons the ghost of Drafts Past tonight. Like this year, the Thrashers owned the 8th pick going into the infamous “Trade Down” draft of 2005. Instead of selecting a player like…oh…Anze Kopitar or Marc Staal…Waddell trades it to San Jose who takes Devin Setoguchi.
He then turns around and trades the number 12 pick to the Rangers, who do take Staal.
Then, with the 16th pick…Waddell selects Alex Bourret…who never saw a single day with any NHL team.
sigh…
Brendan
May 7th, 2010
10:52 pm
Sage, I have to admit, your post had me laughing. We’ve tried ‘those strategies’ already, in 1999, 2002, and 2005.
Rawhide, my draft selection would be Derek Forbort. I think NHL Central Scouting has him at 10th overall. If they’re correct in their assessment, that means Atlanta should have the option to select him at 8th overall. No team can ever have enough quality defensemen, says I. Of course, someone else could pick him before Atlanta gets to the podium.
Okay, don’t feel like picking? Well, I’m not a big fan of trading. UNLESS, the player wants to play here. If such a player is out there, with years left on his contract, or who is a pending RFA, I’m all ears. I don’t mind making a trade that makes sense.
Absent that, all I can do is engage ‘wild hairy speculation’ and a plethora of ‘what if’ scenarios. The one I’ve been tossing around in my grey matter, while laughing heartily at myself, is a 3-team deal with Calgary. It’s stupid, okay. It won’t happen. And tomatoes are about to be hurled at me. But here goes. Calgary trades Jerome Iginla to the Thrashers for pick #8 in the draft, as well as a conditional 3rd rounder in 2011. Edmonton, unable to sign quality players in their own market, is intrigued by the prospect of plucking their cross-province rival’s star player. And for Iggy, he’s not ’so far away’ from home, in Edmonton, from Calgary. The Thrashers ask him, prior to making the deal with Calgary, how he’d feel about being the Captain of the Oilers, and sticking it to the Flames six times a year? Assuming Iggy said, “Sure, fine, I’ll play in Edmonton,” Dudley approaches the Oilers for a deal for the 1st overall pick. I told you you’d be laughing. I’m laughing. Gee, Brendan. Like the Oil is gonna pass on Tyler or Taylor to get the “back 9″ from Iginla, that’s laugh-out-loudable. I try to cause chuckles. It burns calories. It’s supposedly good for you. “Laughter is the best medicine,” and so forth.
Okay, let’s try to sweeten it up a bit. Atlanta trades Iginla ($7 million), its pick #25 (via NJ), AHL prospects Brett Sterling and Eric O’Dell, and Ron Hainsey ($4.5 million, with 3 years left on the deal), for the 1st overall pick and Shawn Horcoff ($6 million), just as “salary relief” for Edmonton, from a bad contract, that perhaps the Oilers are trying to unload.
Did I mention that I’ve been drinking, tonight?
Brendan
May 7th, 2010
11:00 pm
By the way, I like Tyler Seguin with the 1st overall pick. Nothing against Taylor. Taylor is more “NHL-ready” than Tyler. I think it’s worth the wait for Tyler, for Edmonton. Neither player will be a bad selection.
Brendan
May 7th, 2010
11:57 pm
Chicago now up, 6-3, in the 3rd period, with 9:00 left in regulation time. Vancouver’s dreams of reaching the CF are painfully slipping away. Let’s face it, this is a ‘must win’ game for Vancouver. And they’ve given up HOW MANY goals? Answer: Six, and counting. Toews have 5-points in this game. One more and he’ll set a Blackhawks record.
Let`s Start the Season
May 8th, 2010
1:55 am
It looks like the Black Hawks are going to make it to the next round. Well, they have a hard working group of young players, and perhaps could deserve winning this round and moving on and staying alive. But one thing really gets me riled up. WHEN?, is someone from Vancouver gonna put Bufflin (the way it should be spelled) on his ass? You`ve got a franchise goalie in Luongo. You need to do whatever it takes to get him away from the net. Don`t tell me he`s too big. He`s not that good of a skater. A good defenseman should beat him to the puck a majority of the time. Others, who are close to his size have to keep him from shoving their goalie and the puck into the net for a cheap goal that should have never been allowed. We can only hope in a future matchup he can find himself against a Pronger or Chara. Pullease give me someone who will go after this guy!
Let`s Start the Season
May 8th, 2010
2:01 am
Can`t somebody in a Vanciuver uniform knock Bufflin on his … ? Your franchise goaltender deserves better defensive help than he is getting.
ashe
May 8th, 2010
3:33 am
We trade the 8th pick, to Chicago for buff/sharp and we throw in a second and a prospect. Chicago needs to clear salary. And I’d love what buff/sharp bring. We lose the 8th but get 2 quality nhl players.
I hope we trade the 8th for someone who can help us now. We don’t need another prospect.
If iggy is available. Toss them the njd pick, third round, and machachek/odell plus another young player.
Thrashfan01
May 8th, 2010
6:36 am
Actually we do need prospects and a certain type of prospect, a top 6 forward with upsiade type prospect.
Hold on to the 8th pick, take Niederriter or Burmistrov with Connolly as the alternate should he fall due to his injury history.
The NJ pick should be very available, packaged with a sweatener or two (MacArthur and a 4th rounder) it could get a young slightly overpaid top 6 winger from a cap strapped team.
Acer
May 8th, 2010
7:05 am
Keep all picks in the Top60.
Dudley doesn’t strike me as a GM who is willing to sell the future, when his team is not ready for a deeper playoff run. Thrashers history suggests that most of the quality ATL UFA’s will be gone and it’s moronic to sacrifice a high pick when the team will not make the playoffs.
Thrashfan01, I vote no on Burmistrov. He doesn’t have a lot of upside and may only turn out to be a Stephen Weiss type of player (similar development path.)
Red Light
May 8th, 2010
7:44 am
Nothing wrong with Stephen Weiss that a few more players to skate with wouldn’t help. His helpers, David Booth and Nathan Horton, were hurt for much of this past season and he performed very well.
I think the value of a No. 8 pick won’t yield more than a roster player. If you want a top-6 forward, Dudley’s going to have to dig deeper in terms of toss-ins to any deal for that type of player. If you expect a proven 25- to 27-year-old proven top-6 guy, No. 8 alone simply will not do it. No way you get Byfuglien and Sharp for a 1st, 2nd and a prospect.
The Real Thrash
May 8th, 2010
7:47 am
Given out draft history (new GM notwithstanding) We need talent to help us win and make the playoffs now!
The Real Thrash
May 8th, 2010
7:49 am
Sell the future? How many years are we going to wait for thye future? Sheesh!
Red Light
May 8th, 2010
8:20 am
I agree Real. This team needs to make the playoffs and perhaps advance to the second round to appease the few fans they have left. As Dudley said, the first round has been very good for players who play in the NHL, particularly from 2001-2006, but if No. 8 doesn’t project to provide immediate help within two years, then I believe a trade makes more sense for the Thrashers at this point in time, particularly with the additional first round pick. The bad thing is that they swap with the Devils in Round 2 and have no 3rd or 4th round pick (MacArthur).
Acer
May 8th, 2010
8:21 am
Do you realize how long it took Weiss, until he was finally producing decent numbers in the NHL? I don’t want to wait this long. p.s. Rumors out of the KHL suggest that Burmistrov could return to Russia, as soon as next season. Personally, I stay away from any Russian prospect.
The 2009 draft wasn’t only the best draft in Thrashers history, overall it was one of the best of all teams in 2009. We finally have a GM who knows how to draft. I don’t think that the casual Thrasher fan has realized how lucky we are to have Dudley. Now, you have the chance to build a contender like many other team have done before (Chicago, Boston, Washington, Phoenix.) You can shift to a win now mentality when your prospect pipeline is stocked with quality. Atlanta is more than a couple of players away from being a serious contender and I prefer to stick to the building process, until the younger Thrashers (with plenty RFA years) are carrying the team and not UFA’s.
Adding Versteeg (forget about Sharp…the Blackhawks will not trade such a good playoff guy) doesn’t make up for the likely loss of Afinogenov and Kubina. It makes zero sense to waste a high pick and still sit outside the playoffs.
Dwayne
May 8th, 2010
8:21 am
I agree with The Real Thrash…I say trade the pick(S) and a prospect or 2, for Sharpe, IF that’s what it takes. Bogo and Kane, the last 2 top picks will shine next year under a “real” Coach. (keeping my fingers crossed). If the Thrash go into next year with the same 2 goalies, we must have better defensive coverage and better 2 way play out of our forwards. Last I recollect, Sharpe fits that bill.
Acer
May 8th, 2010
8:31 am
Edmonton in 2007 and Toronto in 2009 are good examples of teams, which were also more than a couple of players away from being a serious contender. Yet, both teams chose to sacrifice high drafts picks on Penner and Kessel. The moves backfired (long term for EDM) in a nice fashion and it will take both teams some time to make up for the losses.
Lee
May 8th, 2010
9:17 am
Not much. But I’d sign whoever we draft. Just don’t expect a Kane or Bogo.
World Be Free
May 8th, 2010
9:22 am
JF-thanks for your thoughts on Gonchar. He is an offensive d-man, but also spends alotta time on the ice at the end of close games. That speaks for his d-, 2 or 3 year deal.
Gonna be tough to talk Chicago into letting Buff or Sharp go and if the cost is #8, I’d say it is too high. Get a player at #8 and play with #24, which is still a good pick. If you are dealing with Chicago, I would focus more on Versteeg, who I think would come easier. I do not like trading ANY top 10 pick.
Chicago needs a dance partner that can help them with long term cap relief, so in my view, the partner has the upper hand. To that end, do we work a deal to take Campbell as part of the process? Soupie is overpaid and the Hawks know it. Campbell and Versteeg for #24. Hawks get massive relief and the still get a #1.
World Be Free
May 8th, 2010
9:35 am
Not to avoid the subject of today’s blog, but here are Eklund’s top 20 UFA goalie prospects-
1. Chris Mason 2. Evgeni Nabokov 3. Jose Theodore 4. Dan Ellis
5. Martin Biron 6. Mike Brodeur 7. Antero Niittymaki 8. Vesa Toskala
9. Robert Esche 10. Marty Turco 11. Manny Fernandez 12. Michael Leighton
13. Peter Budaj 14. Johan Hedberg 15. Ray Emery 16. Many Legace
17. Wade Dubielewicz 18. Andrew Raycroft 19. Patrick Lalime 20. Joey MacDonald
Top 4 are number ones, the rest, except for Moose do not interest me. I still say Theodore is a darkhorse here.
World Be Free
May 8th, 2010
9:42 am
Nino or Pysyk, stay away from the Russian here so we do not have to deal with KHL BS.
Staying consistent with my thoughts on Gonchar-we need to get a clear #1 d-man on this team, now or for in the future. Pysyk could be that #1.
Tony C.
May 8th, 2010
9:46 am
W.B.F- Going to have to agree that Versteeg is a much more likely target from the ‘hawks-I also like his game, we have enough “scoring” centers that are more effective on the wing a la’ Sharp or our own Kane. We need people down the middle, and Versteeg’s strong two-way play is something every team would like to have. But I disagree completely on Campbell. After the way their O-ffense ground to a crawl when Campbell was out earlier this year, I doubt they let him go for anyone not named Rafalski-granted, he’s probably making more than his talent-level alone would dictate, but that’s not on him, that’s on Dave Tallon.
I am hoping for a playmaking pivot with that #8 pick-however I’m fine with “best player available”. Burmistrov is an intriguing option as he is just that, and has been a proven performer on the big stage (WJC’s ‘10 OHL FInals etc.)-he was able to put up 16 pts in 17 games… not too shabby for his first year playing “Canadian style” hockey. I also like that he dedicated himself to playing with more physicality even before he arrived in Frostbackland.-Also, we’ve got a few Russians on our squad. That helps I think-read the interview and notice how he mentions that his english “is strong enough to make speeches in the room[sic]” I like that quote especially when you see he deosn’t feel he’s ready for the press-it seems as if he has some leadership fire in his belly-that’s good.
Yung JB from MTL
May 8th, 2010
11:07 am
Does anybody look at hockeysfuture.com? We are ranked 7th in the NHL in terms of prospect future. Our Top 5 Prospects: 1. Carl Klingberg, LW, 2. Ivan Vishnevskiy, D, 3. Jeremy Morin, C, 4. Patrice Cormier, C, 5. Spencer Machacek, RW.
So all I’m saying is if we don’t get El Nino we are still loaded with prospects. That saying, we can trade the 8th pick, but I’d take Nino first over Sharp. Our 25th pick can be an awesome sweetner.
Here the link http://www.hockeysfuture.com/nhl_organisation_rankings/?start=6
Take a look at TOP PROSPECTS also, our Evander Kane is 12th, Klinger is 48th and Vishnevskiy closes out the top 50
kracker
May 8th, 2010
11:25 am
Ryan Johansen looks like a good center prospect that can contribute in a year or so if Dudley goes the prospect route. He looks like he fits both the best player available (maybe, at #8) and the draft for need criteria.
Article: Johansen picked up the WHL pace in a strong way
March 26, 2010
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=522740&cmpid=rss-kimelman
“He has good on-ice vision and also angles well on the forecheck,” Central Scouting’s B.J. MacDonald, who scouts Western Canada prospects, told NHL.com. “He has the intelligence to play power play as well as penalty kill. He can be shifty and has the ability to beat a defenseman one-on-one. Once he fills out and gains more strength he could turn raw talent into a valuable center at both ends of rink. He has displayed nice playmaking capabilities and this should continue at next level.”
goose
May 8th, 2010
11:47 am
Red Light-We do have a third and fourth round pick. We have Montreal’s third round (I don’t remember how) and Dallas’s fourth round from the Kari trade. This is all from a past blueland blog. Here is the complete list of draft picks we have this year from ben wright
We have our 1st round pick and NJ’s 1st round pick
We have NJ 2nd round pick
We have MTL 3rd round pick
We have DAL 4th round pick
We have our 5th and CHI 5th round picks
We have our 6th round pick
We have our 7th round pick
kracker
May 8th, 2010
11:53 am
Very good to know, goose. Thanks.
Smoothie
May 8th, 2010
12:00 pm
Goose – good catch on the 3rd and 4th rounds. We got the 3rd from MTL in the Mathieu Schneider deadline deal in 2009; lucky for us the conditional pick wound up a 3rd rather than 4th but MTL could spoil that by beating PIT.
As for the #8 pick, I think the target should be Ryan Johansen. Reading the article, I think he’s just what we need: a playmaking C who can make his teammates better. His stock is rising to the point that we’ll be lucky to get him at our spot.
If he gets tabbed before we have a chance to get him, then sliding back to #12 or so in order to get an earlier 2nd rounder and a young RFA for our #8 might be an attractive option since Jeremy Morin’s teammate and set up man, Jeff Skinner is likely going to be available closer to #12 thru #15.
Now I need to go scour rosters for potential RFAs worth trading the #8 pick if there are any.
Alan R.
May 8th, 2010
1:25 pm
Yung – Many of us are members of the Hockey’s Future forums. The Thrashers section is a road less traveled, but we’re there.
Zim
May 8th, 2010
1:30 pm
Holding top draft picks is paramount to developing long-term success for under the salary cap budgeted NHL franchises. I agree with Acer in that Dudley should keep all top-60 draft picks unless an RFA-aged player becomes available.
Trading for Patrick Sharp with the 8th overall pick would be careless asset management. A UFA in two years, Sharp will collect paychecks of $4.1 million in 10-11 and $4.2 million in 11-12. How confident are Thrasher fans that Atlanta will have a perennial playoff roster by 2011-12 to convince Sharp to stay longer? With our luck of retaining UFAs?
If the Thrashers hold onto the 8th overall pick and select Brett Connolly, Nino Niederreiter, or Ryan Johansen (one of these three should be available), then Atlanta is likely to get between five and seven seasons of hockey service.
I’d prefer that Dudley retains the New Jersey pick (23rd or 24th) because there is likely going to be some talented players remaining, but if a deal comes along that makes the current roster better and general sense to building a team… then I’ll be content.
@Yung JB, HockeysFuture isn’t exactly the greatest source for detailed prospect analysis (Paul Postma is ranked 15th on their list). One person cannot aptly scout an entire prospect pool. Aside from Jeremy Morin, most of the Thrashers top forward prospects (Machacek, Klingberg, Cormier) have the skill set of bottom six NHL players. Guys like Angelo Esposito, Eric O’Dell, and Daultan Leveille are long shots to play top six minutes in the NHL.
Adding a surefire top six style player, like Johansen, Niedderreiter, or Connolly, greatly improves the Thrashers’ depth at forward, keeps the roster young, and likely the 2010 8th overall pick sees NHL time in 2-3 years.
MB
May 8th, 2010
5:22 pm
Off topic, but IF the Wings can win tonight, would you bet against them winning the series? Think about it…series goes to 3-2 in favor of Sharks with game 6 in Detroit. Gotta say I’d like the home team in that one. Then a return to the Shark Tank for game 7. Think Jumbo Joe and the boys would be squeezing their sticks a little tight in that one?
San Jose’s confidence was soaring after going up 3-0. Took a bit of a hit in the game 4 loss, but failing tonight at home would certainly get them thinking “oh no…not again!” Of course, they SHOULD win…they’re the better overall team, they have better goaltending, and they’re at home. But you never know…
World Be Free
May 8th, 2010
6:11 pm
Tony C-doesn’t CHI still have the rights to Jonsson?
Depends on how much they need the cap relief AND if they can get the relief by mving Huet to Mars or somewhere further away. I like Versteeg too, bet Boston is kicking themselves for trading him to Chicago.
Jung-some good news if we can parlay 2 prospects into roster spots next season.
kracker
May 8th, 2010
6:44 pm
gee..Hawks are losing to Orlando by 29 in the 3rd quarter.
Tony C.
May 8th, 2010
6:53 pm
W.B.F.-Good point, I have no idea… But yeah that Huet contract is a dog, and in fact, that’s something I’d like to ask Dudley about specifically-WTF happened with the gross over-valuation on Campbell & Huet (in regard to their contract costs)? How does he plan on not having similar cap-tedious contracts burden this cost-conscious organization? Trixie, maybe you could forward the gist of that question over to C-Viv for the next Dudley interview.
Smoothie
May 8th, 2010
7:58 pm
Guys – Jonsson is an UFA this summer. That’s one big reason they made the trade so they could save $3M + by getting rid of Barker. They still need to shed $7-8 M I believe to get under the cap.
Had CHI choked in the first round vs NSH they might’ve been more willing to part with Soupy or Sharp, but I’m thinking Versteeg will be expendable as Buffy is showing how valuable an asset he is in a physical playoff series.
If we were to slide back to #12 or 13, we might be able to get our hands on a prospect and an earlier 2nd rounder. Then turn around and flip that prospect or another like Vish and our late 2nd rounder for Versteeg. I really like Skinner and he may be available at 12-15 if there is a run on wings between 6 and 12 with Connolly, Nino, Etem, Mcfarland and Johansen all in the mix after the three prized D-men go in picks 3 thru 5.
Curly
May 8th, 2010
10:28 pm
The draft is a crap-shoot. Even so, I am not a fan of trading draft picks. The more picks you have, the better the chance of landing a player that can stick in the NHL. If we need a veteran player we should sign an UFA that wants to play here, rather than trade assets for a player that may not want to be here.
I think Dudley will go with a forward at #8 ie.. Nino, Johansen, or Etem; then with the NJ pick… a defenseman with size, who ever the is left out of Forbort, Petrovic, McIlrath, or Tinordi.
Brendan
May 8th, 2010
11:56 pm
Curly, I agree. My rule of thumb is, “you don’t trade Top 10 overall picks. Select someone.” With pick # 25, I’m far more liberal. That’s a pick I’d be willing to part with. At # 25, you’ve got some options. There are at least three that I can readily think of, aside from just picking someone with it. (1) Try to move up. Offer your 2nd round pick to move up to #19 or #20 or #21, if there’s a player you covet that’s still on the board. Statistically-speaking, that’s probably a very smart strategy. (2) Trade it for a player, say an RFA. (3) Trade down, if it makes sense. If there’s a team picking at # 27, # 28, or # 29 that also possesses a pick before # 40, you might offer up pick #25 for say, pick #29 and #38 in the draft. I don’t have some team specifically in mind, I’m talking hypothetically. If the Thrashers did that, I wouldn’t scream about it. UNLESS there was still a player at # 25 that was an absolute ‘no-brainer’ to take, if still on the board. Like I said, ‘trading down’ has to make sense. You don’t trade down to eventually land Alex Bourret.
Brendan
May 9th, 2010
12:01 am
Red Wings and Sharks are tied, 1-1, in the 3rd period, with 17:00 left in regulation. If this thing does go to overtime, and the Red Wings win, it will raise the hairs on the back of the necks of the fans of the San Jose Sharks. Let’s not forget, Detroit took a one-goal lead into the 3rd period in Game Two, but lost. In Game Three, Detroit lead by 2-goals, in the 3rd period, and lost. So, really, San Jose is ‘fortunate’ to be up, 3-1. If Detroit had held those leads, this game would be an elimination game for them.
Penalty shot!!!!
Brendan
May 9th, 2010
12:02 am
Fired wide, by Joe Pavelski. Jimmy Howard exhales. Still tied at 1.
Brendan
May 9th, 2010
12:04 am
Penguins fans breathed a sigh of relief, as Montreal scored in the final minute of regular to cut the lead to, 2-1. Pittsburgh held on for the win. Penguins lead the series, 3-2. I think Montreal vs. Pittsburgh has been the best series of the Conference semi-finals. Agree or disagree?
Brendan
May 9th, 2010
12:09 am
Rawhide, when I read the title of this blog,
“What is the number eight pick worth?,” I must admit that I heard the voice of Austin Power, (International Man of Mystery,) saying, “Who does Number Two work for?”
Marleau scores for San Jose! 2-1, Sharks.
Alan R.
May 9th, 2010
12:38 am
I could argue that Marleau’s goal shouldn’t have happened. There’s four people on the ice who saw what happened to Franzen, and yet there was no penalty.
Unfortunately, the Wings couldn’t win their faceoff (big surprise there)…
Somaatl95
May 9th, 2010
1:21 am
Bye Bye Big Red Borg! Hoping for a Pens free cup final!
Rawhide
May 9th, 2010
8:24 am
Brendan – I agree that the Montreal/Pittsburgh series has indeed been the most entertaining of the 2nd round…wih a close second to Vancouver/Chicago.
As for the title…LOL. Hadn’t tought about that ’til I read your comment.
Happy Mothers Day for all who it aplies to out there!
World Be Free
May 9th, 2010
9:09 am
Tony-I think the Huet and Campbell contracts are 2 reasons why Tallon got the ax. But they would be good questions for Duds. Duds is good, but he’s not perfect and if he was party to these contracts, I hope he’s learned his lesson at Chicago’s expense.
Smoothie-thanks, where has Jonsson been lately? I am with you Curly, unless one of these cap stressed teams wants to make a deal and needs some type of compensation in return to save face. I’ll take NHL-ready talent from a winner anytime.
Hate to harp folks, but I think we need a #1 or #2 defenseman more than anything else. We can’t move forward with a bunch of #3 and #4 d-men making up our entire corp. We need a minutes eater on the back line. I pushed to sign Dennis Siedenberg last summer and he wound up in Florida, playing 25-28 minutes / game. He may not be the answer, but he is a UFA this summer and he is what we need-that type of player. You need 4 d-men that can shut down the ice with a lead late in a game, shorten the game and protect a lead. #1, goalie and identify your 4 top d-men.
World Be Free
May 9th, 2010
9:20 am
I am not a Wings’ fan, but I sure do have alotta respect for their players, coaches and management. Just think how good the NHL would be if every team was ran as well as Detroit. I speculated last week that I thought the Wings were tired because they have played so many games. Versus had a piece on the fact that Detroit has played more games than any other team since 2006. Catches up with you.
RL-Thornton got a monkey off his back last night, more than any other Shark. It will be interesting to see how far San Jose will go now, having got past Detroit.
Zim
May 9th, 2010
11:23 am
RE: Trading the 23rd or 24th overall pick for an RFA aged player
Rumblings and speculation out of Buffalo suggest that both Drew Stafford and Tim Connolly could be available this offseason. Connolly is a super skilled, but injury riddled expensive option ($4.5 million for next year before coming a UFA).
However, Drew Stafford is making an affordable $2.3 million next year before becoming a RFA for the 2011 offseason. Struggling with consistency from year to year, Stafford has shown the ability put up top six level production after potting 20 goals and 25 assists in 2008-09. Sabre’s fans finally believed that Stafford was developing into his billing as a power forward at 6-2, 216-pounds.
This year was a step back for Stafford as he had just 14 goals and 34 points. At 24-years old, Stafford still has room to grow and a change of scenery could jumpstart his career. Depending on the Thrashers can do in terms of retaining free agents, Stafford could be a top six or top nine winger for Dudley’s assembled roster. Say Armstrong and Afinogenov re-sign and the Thrashers trade for Stafford…
Bergfors – Antropov – Afinogenov
Kane – Peverley – Little
Stafford – Slater – Armstrong
Boulton/Artyukhin – Reasoner – Thorburn
If Little struggles again, Stafford can step right into the top six. Just a thought… I get the feeling that Sharp/Versteeg may not be as available as everybody thinks this summer.
kracker
May 9th, 2010
12:03 pm
Zim, I’d guess with Dudley’s past and present ties to Buffalo (I think he has a home there) , he is quite familiar with the Buffalo players, including Stafford. Prospects, too.
Regardless of what I may propose or speculate about, my current stance is “In Dudley We Trust” until I see reason to doubt him. Nobody is perfect but he seems to be a knowledgeable NHL guy who is well above 50% as a talent evaluator. And let’s face it, in the near term all Dudley has to do is build a consistent 5-8 team that has a chance to advance to be a success. That also puts the Thrashers as contending for the SE division crown each year.
Smoothie
May 9th, 2010
12:54 pm
Zim – I like how you’re thinking but we already have Clarke MacArthur. I think mgmnt already feels the same way about C-Mac and his ability to play 3rd line or even top 6 minutes when warranted (hot hand). Wish we HAD gotten Stafford over C-Mac, but alas we need a scrappy player who can play the pivot as well like Lombardi, UFA from PHX.
Zim
May 9th, 2010
1:19 pm
Given Dudley’s recent success having a hand in the last several Chicago Blackhawks’ drafts and Atlanta’s 2009 draft class, I’m inclined to trust Dudley’s judgement as well. However, “In Dudley We Trust” is not how I’d describe my thoughts on the general manager.
While I’m unsure of the actual drafts that Dudley engineered for Tampa and Florida (couldn’t find concrete hiring and firing dates), but not much NHL talent (very little) came from the 1999 and 2000 drafts for Tampa and 2003 draft for Florida.
kracker
May 9th, 2010
1:43 pm
Yes, there’s no guarantee Dudley will be successful with the Thrashers and this group of owners. Like you, I don’t know the specifics of Dudley’s past GM jobs but I’ll stick to that motto, which is really just an expression of optimism, until I see next years team (players, coaches, mgmt) fail to produce a better product on the ice. [knock wood]
Zim
May 9th, 2010
1:57 pm
Smoothie – Do the Thrashers need another pivot? Aside from Antropov’s struggles in the faceoff circle, Atlanta’s top two centers performed extremely well this season. Nik had a career year and Peverley, despite struggling in the second half, put up 55 points in his first full season in the NHL with a fantastic faceoff percentage of 52.4 percent.
Lombardi is a solid NHL second line center coming off a career year. Lombardi made $2.35 million, more than a million than Peverley, and finished under 50 percent in the faceoff circle. Peverley is a few months younger than Lombardi and has an NHL point per game average of 0.57 while Lombardi’s career average of 0.53.
Jim Slater’s resurgent second half, should he re-sign, and having Marty Reasoner under contract for next year would give the Thrashers strength up the middle in the bottom six. Slater was excellent at the dot at 58.9 percent and scored at a solid third line pace of 0.42 points per game over the final 41 games (34 points per 82 games).
Lombardi is a solid NHL player and certainly his services would be put to good use in Atlanta especially if Afinogenov is not retained, but where? Do you throw him on the wing? Does that potentially block Evander Kane from playing in the top six next year?
As for Clarke MacArthur, Drew Stafford would be a major upgrade and give the roster much more versatility. Mac has some solid NHL attributes, but Clarke appears to be a 35-40 point man (in fact, Mac has averaged 35 points per 82 games over his career) at the NHL level that can fill in on the second line in a pinch.
Stafford has a much higher ceiling, larger physical presence, and higher end skill overall.
Without a coach, it is very hard to speculate on the makeup of the roster and what type of players will/won’t fit the 2010-11 Thrashers.
World Be Free
May 9th, 2010
2:08 pm
Zim-I always like new thoughts, especially when we have a few on the blog who’s postings are pretty dry.
But we need to avoid most of Buffalo’s core players, like Stafford, Pomniville, Roy, Connolly and Stafford. Stafford was benched for the final playoff game for Cody McCormick, because Stafford refused to use his size in the corners and in front of the net. Stafford has pretty much punched his one way ticket out of Buffalo. “Tin Tim” has ths skills, but avoids all contact. Avoid Connolly at all costs; add to this he is due $4.5M this year and he’s a UFA after the season.
If you are looking for a Buffalo forward, the ONLY one I would consider would be Roy, if you brought him in as a second center. Sabres made the huge mistake of letting Briere and Drury walk for nothing, elevating Roy to the #1 center spot. He’s not a #1 center, maybe a #2 but I expect the Sabres to make players available this summer to clean house, so Roy may be had for a reduced rate.
World Be Free
May 9th, 2010
2:13 pm
Dudley still has a house in the Buffalo area up near Niagara Falls.
Zim, we all know the draft is a crap shoot at best. Not sure if Dudley is the savior, but I do know he is one of the better talent evaluators in the league. We’ll be a better team with hin around, if he has the money to spent on players and scouts.
R. Stroz
May 9th, 2010
4:12 pm
Any line combinations need to have one player built in: Cormier.
Dudley is convinced Cormier is ready for “the show.”
Furthermore, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Spencer Machacek get an opportunity.
My guess, there are several players positioned as trade bait.
Zim
May 9th, 2010
5:16 pm
World Be Free – Personally, I hold onto both picks and continue the build from within… I’m not advocating a trade for Stafford, but using him as an example of the type of player that could be available and deliver the most the value to a franchise like Atlanta.
I’m impressed with Dudley’s recent drafting with the Blackhawks’ and Thrashers’ but his past results with Tampa and Florida create some doubt about his label as a great talent evaluator. Let’s be quite honest, guys that are considered the best in a business, usually have long-term job security. Dudley has bounced around, despite solid results.
I have confidence in Dudley’s ability to build the team and he’s saying all of the right things now.
R. Stroz – I’m not buying the Cormier Kool-Aid (as a top six player) for two reasons. First, Cormier’s point production in the offensive QMJHL is less than a point per game for his career reaching 20 goals just once this year. Danick Paquette was a three time 25-goal scorer in the Q and even put up 36 this year. Cormier, even with other parts of his skill set, is likely not going to produce enough offense on a consistent basis to play in the top six, let along next season.
Secondly, Cormier will be 20 years old by the time next season starts. After his suspension in mid-January, Cormier missed out on a huge development opportunity and sat out of competitive hockey until signing an ATO with Chicago. In seven playoff games, Cormier is pointless with six penalty minutes and a -2.
I believe Cormier will play in the NHL within the next two years, but asking a 20-year old kid to play top six or top nine NHL minutes without much developmental process taking place in the previous nine months to training camp is a tall order.
Spencer Machacek, who scored at a higher rate in a much more difficult league (in terms of individual point productions) as a junior in the WHL, has played two years of minor league hockey and is just now on the cusp of playing NHL hockey. I expect a similar path for Cormier regardless of Dudley’s gushing over his skill set (which I consider public damage control for the Kovalchuk trade; i.e. this is not another Angelo Esposito).
World Be Free
May 9th, 2010
5:48 pm
Zim-I agree that there’s going to be a number of players available for trade, in June and early July. Stafford needs a change of venue, probably to a western conference team like Calgary. Edmonton has always held him in high regard.
While Cormier’s point totals are not impressive, Duds must see something in his overall game that makes his attractive. I’d like to hear his take on Esposito.
HookyBob
May 9th, 2010
8:20 pm
WBF: Sometime back you wrote that Buffalo was all “3rd line players.” My thoughts then were that Vaneck was 1st line material. Now you say the only guy from Buffalo you’d be interested in is Roy. Am I reading your posts wrong..or do you not think Vaneck is worthwhile? I watched him in the “Frozen Four” about 2005+/- and Vaneck was a “man among boys.”
RE Gonchar: I’d love to have him in Thrasher blue,..but at 36 I don’t think he has a lot of good years left.
kracker
May 9th, 2010
8:30 pm
RE Gonchar being 36+ years, Dudley wants a veteran player for locker room leadership. But if he’s going to want $5M for 3 or 4 years, keep looking Dudley.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
5:36 am
Hooky-I am looking more at Sabre players that will be available this summer. Vanek is not available and he shouldn’t be.
Kracker-I would take Gonchar 3 yrs at $18M. Impact player, an immediate upgrade to your backline and your entire team.
Lee
May 10th, 2010
6:52 am
Some people say: “Oh, the 8th pick is worth nothing!” But take Niclas Bergfors for an answer, Lord knows what pick he was, but probably around the 20’s, and in my opinion, has been better than Kane when he got here, and Kane was the number 4 pick! So our eigth pick could be something to hold on to.
kracker
May 10th, 2010
8:04 am
Maybe on Gonchar WBF, if they spend to the cap and they surely won’t. I base a lot of what I think on figuring on using a $47-50M budget to try to bring back most of this year’s team, while projecting to add Kulda and maybe Machacek or Cormier if Duds thinks they are ready. Based on how that goes, we add 1, 2 or 3 forwards and a defenseman if Kubina doesn’t sign. If no Kubina, sure, we need to replace him with a top d-man, which could be Gonchar. When I say no at $5M+ I mean I can’t see signing him (and Kubina) at the expense of not getting the fwd help we will need to replace Kovalchuk, Kozlov and perhaps Army and Max. Bergfors and Kane may both have sophmore slumps, I sort of doubt it but it may happen. Little – we don’t know if he rebounds next seasson. Will Slater score before December lol? Will White be here? Anyway, I don’t see Kubina and Gonchar on the same team.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
8:36 am
kracker-the nice thing about this time of year is that we can toss out scenarios that we like, but may not necessarily see. I agree on Kubina or Gonchar, it’s one or the other or maybe someone else. We know we will not spend to the cap, but somewhere close would be nice. On the flip side, it seems like most of the clubs spending close to the cap are in a world of hurt because of the cap. Too many fat contracts and no trade clauses have let teams searching for improvement with no money.
We still need Dudley to do his “magic”, convincing a potential coach and UFAs outside the organization to come to Atlanta. In our situation, you run the risk of having to overpay a UFA to become a Thrasher. So Dudley has to be a scout, trader and pitch man all at once. I think he knew this when he took the job.
kracker
May 10th, 2010
8:57 am
WBF – Dudley says he’s in no hurry to sign a coaching staff. With the playoffs ongoing, he has to wait. But I AM anxious to know who it will be! Hoping for a guy that, along w/ Duds, will have some players looking at Atlanta and our young core and saying “I can play there.” Do you think the HC is selected by the first week of June? Or more like last year, a few days before the enrty draft?
For players, Dudley may be talking one way and actually be planning on attempting to make some significant trades. Either way, he’s going to talk up the team and players so who knows?
GaVaHokie
May 10th, 2010
9:11 am
I’m not willing to give up the 8th pick for a vet… the player you draft there has much more long term value than Sharp.
Johansen is probably the best choice for his skill, smarts and size. Plus, he seems to be still developing. But, Etem is still my favorite for his raw skill and conditioning. He’s already working with NHL trainers.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
9:13 am
kracker-I’d say we’ll have a HC before the draft. Torchetti and Ramsay are the top 2 candidates; I think he would like their input on trades and draft selections. Not sure of the weight of Waddell’s input on coaches, trades or draft selections, as long as Dudley has the final say.
I still think we are going to see more player for player trades this year, compared to the last 2 years. Some players with NTCs have windows that they can be traded; teams will take advantage of these windows to make deals before the windows close.
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
9:40 am
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NHL&id=1475&line=109777&spln=1
Looks like we’ve got some pretty good arm-chair GM’s on this blog.
WBF & kracker – I don’t think we’ll make a run at Gonchar, but I see us going after Volchenkov or Seidenberg if things don’t work out with Kubina leading up to July 1. Didn’t Duds draft Volchenkov in 2003?
kracker
May 10th, 2010
9:41 am
BTW, WBF ha! Off topic, thinking about your name…Did World B. Free (Lloyd) ever play for the Braves? I can’t remember if they were still in Buffalo when Free was playing or if they had already moved to San Diego.
These NTC trade windows, would they be prior to July 1st?
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
9:44 am
I’m sorry, I meant to type 1999…hard to keep track of all the different GM stints Duds has enjoyed since his first gig in Ottawa.
Just double checked and Volchenkov was a 1st rounder in 2000. Not sure if Duds was OTT’s GM just yet. See if I can figure that one out.
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
9:57 am
Well, Duds was GM the year before Volchenkov was picked. His 2 successful picks were Mike Fisher in the 2nd round and Chris Neil later towards the late middle rounds.
Duds made a ton of deadline deals in 1999 but none of them really amounted to anything as Nelson Emerson, who eventually ended up in ATL along with Damien Rhodes, was the marquee acquisition for the playoff stretch run. Not sure if Duds lasted long enough to make the trade of Rhodes to ATL for “future considerations” or if Marshall Johnston had taken over by then.
kracker
May 10th, 2010
10:12 am
Oh, yes Smoothie, I would like either of those guys! I don’t find Seidenberg linked to Dudley on a quick search. Could be though. And for sure Rick knows of all the available players.
kracker
May 10th, 2010
10:27 am
Smoothie, this from the ESPN article that your rotoworld link above referenced:
“By the way, an NHL source believes the KHL will also takes runs at defenseman Anton Volchenkov and forward Alexander Frolov, both UFAs July 1. Mind you, word is Volchenkov and Frolov would rather stay in the NHL.”
Ugh, the KHL will be a bargaining chip for Volchenkov, driving up his price.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
10:31 am
The question is, will these players WANT to play in the KHL after having played int he NHL?
kracker-Lloyd never played in Buffalo, though I am sure the “B” BRaves would have loved to have had him.
Smoothie-you may be right on Gonchar, but we will keep our options open. Good for Kubina to know we are “looking” at players beyond him.
Red Light
May 10th, 2010
10:35 am
Smoothie and all. I put together the history of Dudley’s GM stints with some notes about his tenures in each city.
Dudley as general manager
1994-1998 Detroit Vipers general manager
1998-99 Ottawa Senators general manager
Hired on June 30, 1998 after the NHL draft, which was held in Buffalo June 27, so he cannot be credited or discredited with any draft picks that year. He left to assume same role in Tampa Bay.
1999-00 to 2001-02 Lightning general manager
In 1999, he left the Senators and joined the Tampa Bay Lightning. To get Dudley, who was under contract, away from Ottawa, the Lightning gave up Rob Zamuner, a second-round pick in either 2000, 2001 or 2002, cash and the right to host three exhibition games at a location of their choice as compensation from Tampa Bay.
Lightning GM was Jacques Demers. At the draft, vice president Dudley stepped in and traded the No. 1 overall pick for the first time in his career on draft day and repeated it a few years later.
The Lightning got goalie Dan Cloutier, Niklas Sundstrom, a 1st- and a 3rd- round selection (later traded to the Sharks) in 2000 from the Rangers for a 1st-round pick (previously acquired from the Blackhawks via the Vancouver Canucks – Pavel Brendl) in 1999.
His drafts in Tampa yielded Sheldon Keefe (125 NHL games), Nikita Alexeev (159 NHL games), Evgeny Artyukhin (199 NHL games) and Alexander Svitov (179 NHL games). “In our opinion (Svitov) was the most complete player in the draft,” Lightning general manager Rick Dudley said. “I think if there’s anybody in the draft that can play in the NHL next year it’s him.”
Kovalchuk was taken 1st by the Thrashers, of course.
The first coach he hired in Tampa was old friend Steve Ludzik from the Vipers and replaced him with old friend John Tortorella, an assistant to Dudley in Buffalo.
2002-03 to 2003-04 Panthers general manager
Upon taking over the Panthers, and for the second time in league history, Dudley traded the #1 pick on a draft day, but unlike the first time when he traded the top pick in 1999, Dudley opted to keep his pick in the first round. To ensure that Atlanta didn’t trade their 2nd overall pick or select Bouwmeester, Dudley threw a 3rd and 4th round pick Waddell’s way and watched as Atlanta selected goalie Kari Lehtonen.
His picks beyond Bouwmeester in year one were Petr Taticek (3 NHL games), Rob Globke (46 NHL games) and Gregory Campbell (good checking forward with 363 games). In 2003, Nathan Horton, Anthony Stewart (remember him?), Kamil Kreps, Stefan Meyer (4 NHL games), Martin Lojek (5 NHL games) and Tanner Glass (111 games).
His first coach, whom he inherited, was Mike Keenan. Dudley fired Keenan Nov. 9, 2003 and took over as interim coach. John Torchetti took over in February and lost his job after 27 games when Jacques Martin replaced Dudley. Dudley’s first coach in Ottawa was Jacques Martin!
Dudley joined the Blackhawks in December of 2004 as Hockey Operations Consultant and was elevated to Director of Player Personnel prior to the 2005-06 season. He worked closely with Senior Vice President Bob Pulford and General Manager Dale Tallon after joining the club.
So, in that capacity, Dudley could have been credited with the 2005 NHL draft, which yielded Jack Skille, Mike Blunden and Nik Hjalmarsson. Jonathan Toews in 2006 (no others have played yet), Patrick Kane in 2007 (no others have played yet), and none in 2008 have played either.
He resigned June 17, 2009 to pursue other opportunities (RE: Thrashers).
GaVaHokie
May 10th, 2010
10:49 am
Red Light… Svitov, oh man! Looks like Dudley has had his share of “Stefan’s” in the past.
He screwed up the 1st and 2nd rounds that year… check out some of the names that got passed over.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NHL_Entry_Draft
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
10:53 am
Red Light — good work…where did you find this information as wiki and such make it tough to figure out start and end dates for GM’s.
The only question I have is when you mentioned he traded the #1 overall pick in 1999, but didn’t the Thrashers have the #1 overall pick by virtue of being an expansion team? Or did he trade the 1st overall pick in 2000 as Tampa finished with only 59 pts that season and were the worst team in the league by 1 point just behind the Thrashers.
R. Stroz
May 10th, 2010
10:57 am
Does anyone know the best day in Don Waddell’s life as a GM?
When the Braves hired Frank Wren.
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
11:05 am
The 2000 NHL Draft was a bit weak to say the least. Drafting Russian forwards was certainly in vogue in the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1999. However, the first 6 Russian forwards taken before Alexander Frolov — Anton Volchenkov was taken right after Frolov as the first Russian D-man — did not really pan out and Nikita Alexeev played almost as many games (159) in the NHL as the 7th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th picks combined in which 4 other Russians were taken after Alexeev at #8. Finally, the Canadiens selected at #13 a player who went on to have a long career that is still going strong. His name: Ron Hainsey. Go figure.
Spud Webb
May 10th, 2010
11:07 am
Well, I was wrong on the sharks!! and I thought for sure Philly would pull an “atlanta hawk” and give game 4 to boston!!!
I love hockey, playoff time makes me sooooooooooo happy!!!
Red Light
May 10th, 2010
11:17 am
Tampa Bay had the No. 1 pick before dealing it away. I’m not sure why Atlanta got the second pick originally, but Brian Burke pulled out a few deals to walk away with both Sedins. Here’s a link to the article. Atlanta traded up to pick Stefan.
http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2007/06/21/entry-draft-1999-how-burke-pulled-off-the-sedins-heist/
J-man
May 10th, 2010
11:18 am
Strongly agree with Zim on Cormier. Dudley is acting like he is just a slam dunk star on the horizon when in fact he could well end up being another Riley Cote and not really be very helpful here. I’m starting to get a little worried that Dudley may be in love with “toughness”, that mythical quality that so many seem to prize. My belief is that Cormier will probably put up 4th line numbers in the NHL and no more. For him to become a useful 2nd line player truly able to put up 2nd line numbers and not a 3rd/4th line guy masquerading as a 2nd line player is a bigger long shot than Dudley seems to think.
I’d keep the 8th overall pick. Can’t say I’m real enthused over a lot of the trade proposals being floated here. I’ll be kind and say that some of them are just as unrealistic as they can be.
Red Light
May 10th, 2010
11:26 am
The Thrashers lost the Draft Lottery to Chicago in 1999, and here’s a quick synopsis of what occurred.
1. The wheeling and dealing began when Vancouver sent defenseman Bryan McCabe and a 2000 first-round pick to the Chicago Blackhawks (which became Pavel Vorobiev, who did next to nothing) for the fourth overall pick (which landed with the Rangers and became Brendl)
2. Brian Burke then sent the No. 4 selection and a pair of third-round picks to the Tampa Bay Lightning for the top overall pick.
3. Next, Vancouver sent the top pick to the expansion Atlanta Thrashers for the No. 2 selection and a conditional 2000 third-rounder. The deal was that the Thrashers would take Stefan, leaving the Canucks to take the Sedins in sequential order.
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
11:47 am
Wow, that was some kind of razzle-dazzle at the top of the ‘99 NHL Draft! Apparently, Duds wasn’t enthralled with the idea of drafting for the future and preferred to parlay the top pick for assets who could play in the immediate future. According to the TBL website on NHL.com, the wheeling and dealing yielded this result:
“Dudley didn’t wait long to make an impact, converting the first overall pick at the 1999 NHL Entry Draft in Boston into five players ready to step in and three high draft future choices for an organization needing a boost in depth. Among the new players acquired in the deal were goaltender Dan Cloutier from the New York Rangers and defenseman Andrei Zyuzin from San Jose, two young players just beginning to realize their potential in the NHL.”
Who those two “young players just beginning to realize their potential” I have yet to determine. Let me go find out.
I will say that whomever was running the Blackhawks from ‘99 to 2001 was absolutely abysmal in their evaluation of talent wasting top pick after top pick on Russians who amounted to nothing.
kracker
May 10th, 2010
11:52 am
Sam Woo, Hockeybuzz New Jersey Devils Blogger, on coaches Lou should consider hiring. Yea, I know it’s from the Devils perspective but what do you think of them as Thrashers candidates?
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Sam-Woo/Devils-coach-merry-go-round-continues/80/28258
Spud Webb
May 10th, 2010
12:00 pm
Zim, some excellent points in regards to cormier. someone else also posted it, this is PR for trading kovy. Lets make this look better than it really is!!!
I wouldn’t mind Gonchar, but fact is I just don’t see him signing here. We’ve got our work cut out for us in regards to getting anyone to come here. Sad but true.
WBF, no way I want stafford on this team or anyteam I “like” or root for!!!!!! A lot of talent, heart I’m not so sure about! It hurts me to write that, but it’s true. I had high hopes for him!!!
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
12:09 pm
Oh wait, those young players they were talking about WERE in fact Cloutier and Zyuzin. Duh. Zyuzin went on to play a total of 107 games with Tampa before having a few productive years for the Minnesota Wild in the early part of this decade. Cloutier lasted all of 2 years and 76 games. After a terrible season in ‘99-’00 (not entirely his fault of course), he gave way to Kevin Weekes of all goalies in ‘00-’01. Weekes actually won 20 games for the Bolts before Khabibulin arrived on the scene to take the reins the following season.
Needless to say, it looks like Dudley’s moves in 1999 amounted to very little in terms of draft pick success, but did yield some assets that helped win a Cup in 2003-’04, namely the acquisition of Freddie Modin in a trade with Toronto that jettisoned Darcy Tucker as well as Cory Sarich from the Sabres in a trade involving Chris Gratton.
Red Light
May 10th, 2010
12:11 pm
I found another interesting tidbit, that of soon-to-be coaches or GMs that appeared on the 1999 Expansion Draft list that were available to be chosen by the Thrashers.
Randy Cunneyworth, James Patrick, Tommy Albelin, Garth Snow, Doug Lidster, Guy Carbonneau, Gord Murphy, Kirk Muller, Dan Bylsma, Bob Carpenter, Joe Sacco, Mike Sullivan, Ron Hextall, Craig Berube and Tony Granato.
Among those who were passed up by the Thrashers included: Dwayne Roloson, Joe Juneau, Geoff Sanderson, Rob Ray, Scott Nichol, Manny Fernandez, Benoit Hogue, Ulf Samuelsson, Jim Dowd, Ray Ferraro, Dave Andreychuk, Sergei Brylin, Sergei Nemchinov, Jeff Beukeboom, Steve Duchesne, Luke Richardson, Richard Park, Paul Coffey and 38-year-old Igor Larionov.
Alan R.
May 10th, 2010
12:14 pm
We saw all series long what the Sharks can do 5-on-7. 5-on-5 is another story altogether.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
12:14 pm
Stroz-right on! Wren is horrible, he has managed this team into the ground-don’t get me started!
Spud-Stafford is soft to the core, another Darcy success story! Let’s hope Dudley can persuade players to come here.
The 1999 NHL Draft was one of the worst I think I have every seen. I saw brendl last time I was in Norway in 2008, playing in the Swedish leagues. “Plastic Tim” Connolly was in that draft too. That was a draft to forget.
Red Light-Dudley’s history would indicate he has had his share of hits and misses, like most GMs. I was looking over the 95-96 media guide the other day, at the massive number of players drafted in all rounds, seeing how few ever made an impact int he NHL, including 1/2 the guys sselected in the 1st round and most of the guys selected in the 2nd round.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
12:30 pm
Red Light-I believe the Thrashers drafted Mark Tinordi as well, but he never played here due to injury.
Most of the guys on the list that were available where on the way down in their careers. I am sure some had contracts that here a bit heavy too. I remember when Punch Imlach put together a team of vets in Buffalo in 1970. They played well the first seasn, then fell off in 71-72.
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
1:29 pm
We have discussed here several times that Dudley’s draft success was quite limited during his time in Tampa. However, he did make numerous, and I mean numerous, moves to bring in players that would be vital cogs in their Cup run in ‘03-’04. The 2000-’01 season turned out to be an important turning point for the franchise as Rick Dudley managed to pull off the following moves to position the franchise for the future:
1) signed 3rd round pick from 1998, Brad Richards, to an entry-level contract at the 11th hour before training camp in 2000
2) signed UFA from Calgary, Marty St. Louis before the 2000 campaign
3) fired his first HC Steve Ludzik during the season and elevated assistant coach John Tortorella to Head Coach and brought in the recently deposed Craig Ramsay from Philly as his assistant
4) in March of 2001, Dudley pulled off a trade with Phoenix for established goalie Nikolai Khabibulin (and D-man Stan Neckar) in return for ‘97 #1 pick Paul Mara, Mike Johnson, 2nd round pick Zaynullin, whom he drafted in 2000
Of course, later on in 2001, he also brought in UFA Dave Andreychuk and traded for young defenseman Dan Boyle from Florida in early 2002 before leaving for the Panthers’ GM job at the conclusion of the 2002 season.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
2:20 pm
Smoothie- I.D.W.T.
Red Light
May 10th, 2010
4:12 pm
There’s not a GM alive that hasn’t had hits and misses, but it’s the entire body of work that is important to determine whether or not a GM has done his job, not one draft pick, one signing or one trade. So, we can cite examples on both sides and in this day in age of the cap, some deals invariably can look better or worse depending upon the situation. Was he unloading to make cap room, or was he able to score a good deal because of generous cap space?
Saying that, Dudley’s tenure in Ottawa, Tampa Bay and Florida can almost be tossed out the window because it was pre-Cap, right? And, if we consider Chicago, do we really know what he was instrumental in accomplishing because he was not in a position of “final say” correct? Or maybe he was?
The lone problem I have with Dudley is that he is now with his fifth team in 12 seasons, and three of those in the Southeast Division. So, I find myself asking that if he is indeed a keen evaluator of talent, both amateur and professional, then why is it that he has never stayed put in one position. Being GM in Ottawa in 1998 didn’t exactly have the same cache then as it might have now, because the previous owner was going broke when he was there. Ditto Tampa in 1999. Florida could be viewed as one of the most horrid outposts in the NHL. Then, he leaves Chicago a couple weeks before Tallon is purged in favor of Bowman the Younger only to wind up here.
Now, the optimist in me says what a break for the Thrashers and Dudley, while the pessimistic side yells in my ear, “something doesn’t seem right with this entire situation.”
The NHL is loaded with guys that move from one team to another, yet I haven’t found one in a managerial position that has had five jobs in 12 years. Brian Burke has held four such positions, but those have been since 1992. Bryan Murray has had four too, but those were since 1990.
Of course, we all hope for the best given the past 11 years of personnel decisions we’ve endured, and I do think he’s a better option at this point in time, but the question is, what is his motivation for doing this job at this point in time?
So, in my Bill O’Reilly best, I ask “What say you?”
Alan R.
May 10th, 2010
4:48 pm
So, in my Bill O’Reilly best, I ask “What say you?”
If you really were Bill O, the TV would be off by now.
Sage of Bluesland
May 10th, 2010
5:05 pm
…Now, the optimist in me says what a break for the Thrashers and Dudley, while the pessimistic side yells in my ear, “something doesn’t seem right with this entire situation.”…
Folks, we have a winning statement here…”Duds” will be gone in three years’ time…Thank goodness we have Don Waddell ready to step in when the organization needs him most…
Some just want to BEWIEVE so badly!!!
Brendan
May 10th, 2010
10:00 pm
I hope Brian Boucher will be okay. Leighton entered in relief, for his first start since March. Leighton didn’t let in a single goal. Leighton came in when the score was 1-0. Flyers win another “elimination” game, 4-0. “Bonus” hockey!! Philly’s ownership jumps for joy! $2 million in pure profit is comin’ their way, in Game Six!
Segue, Montreal has forced a seventh game vs. Pittsburgh. That’s really incredible. If someone had told me Montreal would push Washington to seven games, I would have laughed. To say the Habs would eliminate the Capitals, would make question the dosage level of the drugs you were on. And to say that Montreal would then push the defending Stanley Cup Champions to seven games, would have me motioning to men in the ‘white coats’ that we’ve got a real ‘live one’ here.
It almost makes me want to root for Montreal. But I still have this nagging notion that the Stanley Cup Playoffs should actually contain the best teams from the regular season. When lower seeds like # 6, # 7, and # 8 compose three-quarters of the CSF, it is cause for concern. And if it’s # 7 vs. # 8 in the CF, then something is wrong with the playoff format, for CLEARLY, those seeds don’t reflect the PREMIER franchises of the league. That’s my opinion. I certainly welcome others.
Chicago will get their chance to be “perfect” in British Columbia in these playoffs, by going 3-0 vs. the Canucks. Will these series ever end??? The NHL must be “thrilled” by these extended series. Bettman would probably love for every series to go seven games. Sweep series leave money on the table. $6 million worth, to be precise.
Hokey Clisters
May 10th, 2010
10:16 pm
Duds “sounds” good in his Q&A with Ben Wright on Thrashers website. He was very telling about what he’s looking for in a coach. Number one he wants a coach that can make adjustments for other teams style of play……..where have we heard that before?
Duds says its good to have coaches that can equal out each other’s temperaments – such as a hard nose “in your face” coach paired with another coach who is good at commuicating with the players. Sounds like he has a good idea what he wants.
I’m OK with the Thrashers trading or keeping their draft picks as long as Duds is left to make the final decision “and” AS gives him the moolah to sign who he wants……….I hope that’s not a pipedream.
If Duds can turn Thrashers around then the Braves may ask him for help to fix their their coaching mess when Bobby retires…….
Elrod has chimed in and says Braves should try batting with hockey sticks and jump the next opponent who crosses “their” home plate. Says they should sign Boults to take someone out. Also note that Elrod is quite enamored with Cormier and his inclinations for goonery and such.
HookyBob
May 10th, 2010
10:48 pm
WBF: Understood on Vanek, reading comprehension never was my strong suite. Back on the best commentators,..Danny Galavan was really good. That brings back memories of Brian McFarland and Foster Hewitt.
The way Gonchar looked tonight he might be worth Kubina’s salary for 3 more years. I’d be happy with one of the following anchoring our blueline, Gonchar, Volchenkov, or Kubina. Other suggestions welcomed.
So I’m going to buy a lottery ticket. If I had a choice should I bring Camarelli’s or Halek’s lucky rabbits foot with me?
Brendan,..I’ll gladly cheer for the Habs, even though I don’t have a dog in this fight. This year they are what hockey is all about. Not sure what can be done to improve the play-off format. The lower seeds still must overcome home-ice advantage (although I think it is over-rated) to advance. Whoever is playing the best hockey from April on should advance. Best of 7 should assure that team advances. Any suggestions on changing the play-off format?
Stroz: Great line!
Rawhide
May 10th, 2010
11:20 pm
Looks like we still have some more round-two hockey to enjoy over the next few days. Here’s a new blog to discuss how the Canucks, Flayers and Habs refuse to bow out quietly.
Midfield
May 11th, 2010
4:28 pm
Gonchar is a much better version of our own Ron Hainsey, except his hair, of course. He’s the key to Pens’ PP, but tends to drag his feet on the defensive end close to the end of a shift. Of course, he’s no spring chicken.
JR
May 13th, 2010
5:43 pm
let’s see. if we trade the pick, we pick up a veteran who will leave us in a year or two as a free agent. if we draft someone, we trade them for a veteran who will leave us in a year or two as a free agent.
easy choice, n’est pas?
Eugene
May 13th, 2010
7:00 pm
In today’s Hard Salary Capped NHL, it doesn’t make sense to trade draft picks away. Atlanta would only have to pay entry level contracts which are capped below the million dollar mark. If they stick to this strategy they’ll be able to draft top notch talent and have them around at bargain basement prices for at least 3 years. They could copy the strategy of Washington, Pittsburgh, and Chicago and purposely throw away a few seasons just to get high draft picks.