What is the number eight pick worth?
Earlier in the week, Ben Wright posted a pretty nice two-part interview with the new GM of the Thrashers, Rick Dudley. In case ya missed it, here is part one…and here is part two.
Among the number of subjects covered, one question Dudley responded to in the second part of the piece had to do with the upcoming entry draft…specifically, would he consider trading away one of the Thrashers’ two first-round picks? Currently the hold the eighth overall as well as New Jersey’s later in the round obtained via the Kovalchuk trade.
Dudley’s response…”I didn’t enter any of those drafts thinking “I’m going to trade this” but people get in a frenzy around the draft and want to deal. I’ve already had a couple people call who want to move up or add a second first round pick. And do you know what? They’re available. There’s just a price. I have a pretty good knowledge of what they’re worth and if you want to move up to eight or acquire another pick you’re going to have to pony up with something, and it’s going to have to be something pretty good because they are very valuable.”
Should Rick Dudley use the 8th overall draft pick to trade for a proven player such as Patrick Sharp, who has 126 goals, 119 assists and is a +40 in 419 games played? (Paul Beaty/Associated Press)
So, they are “available”…but at a “price”.
Given that, I ask you…if the Thrashers are indeed listening to offers for the number eight pick in the draft, what exactly do you think the “price” should be? Do you think Dudley would be wise to consider using that pick…or possibly packaging it with a prospect… to bring in a proven commodity like, say, a Jerome Iginla or Patrick Sharp?
Or are you one who believes that the Thrashers are better off simply using that pick themselves, drafting a young prospect to join the list of others the organization have in the pipeline?
As you ponder your response, let’s take a quick look back at some of the more recent eighth overall picks…a review of what drafting in that slot has gained the team using it. Then we’ll take a look forward at who might be available once the first seven picks in this June’s draft.
Last summer, the Dallas Stars took Scott Glennie with the eighth pick…a forward playing with the Brandon Wheat Kings of the WHL. In three seasons with that team, he has scored 86 goals and 131 assists during 182 regular season games. He has 4 goals and 15 assists in 18 playoff games as well. He is yet to play in an NHL game with the Stars.
In 2008, Denmark’s Mikkel Boedker was the eighth overall selection by the Phoenix Coyotes…the highest-ever drafted Danish player. At the time, he was a member of the OHL’s Kitchener Rangers. The following season he played in 78 games for the Coyotes scoring 11 goals and 17 assists finishing a -6. This past season he played in 14 NHL games and had 3 points and was a +2.
What should Dudley do with the 8th overall draft pick?
- Keep it and draft a promising prospect (38%, 42 Votes)
- Trade it to help bring in a proven talent (62%, 68 Votes)
Total Voters: 110
Loading ...Centerman Zach Hamill was the selection of the Boston Bruins with the 2007 number eight pick. At the time he was playing with the WHL’s Everett Silvertips. Toward the end of the 2007-08 season, he was moved up to the Bruins’ AHL affiliate in Province where he has scored 13 goals and 18 assists in 72 games. He was able to play in one game for Boston at the end of the season, picking up an assist during 12:08 TOI in the 4-3 shootout win against Washington.
Back in 2006, another Silvertip went at the eighth spot as centerman Peter Mueller was picked up by the Coyotes. Mueller played in all 81 games for Phoenix during the 2007-08 season and scored 22 goals and 32 assists. The following season he netted 13 goals and 23 assist in 72 games. Then this past season…after only 4 goals and 17 assists in 54 games…he was traded at the deadline to Colorado along with Kevin Porter in exchange for Wojtek Wolski. In his first game with the Avs he scored once to help them to a 4-3 win over the Ducks, then finished the season scoring 8 more times and chipping in with 11 assist.
Now, looking forward to the players that might be available once the eighth pick rolls around this year…here are just some of the names I have read/heard being kicked around. Please feel free to add/discuss others you might have an eye on.
Mark Pysyk – Defenseman currently playing with the WHL’s Edmonton Oil Kings. He scored 7 goals and 17 assists this past season in 48 games played, though a broken foot shortened his season. In an interview with Glen Erickson of Hockey’s Future, Oil Kings head coach Steve Pleau said of Pysyk, “Ever since he started as a 16-year old with us, he’s been out best defenseman”. Continuing he added, “Mark has good hockey sense, skating is his strength and he makes that first pass very well”.
Emerson Etem – Centerman who led WHL rookies with 37 goals playing in Medicine Hat…a good puck handler with above average skating skills and, according to Phil Foley of the Atlanta Thrashers Examiner, he has spent the last few offseasons training with Chris Chelios, Mike Commodore and Mike Comrie.
Jack Campbell – Goalie for the U.S. National U-18 team who NHL.com’s Adam Kimelman describes as “a big athletic goalie with championship pedigree. I add this option in only for the sake of discussion, as I do not think the Thrashers need to be taking a goalie with the 8th pick.
Ryan Johansen – Centerman with the Portland Winterhawks of the WHL. Last season he scored 25 goals and 44 assists, amassing 53 PIM and a +17 rating. “This kid keeps getting better”, Brad Holland says of Johansen in his mock draft. “Good finish to regular season and great playoffs has ATL ‘reaching’ here”.
Derek Forbort – Defenseman currently with the U.S. National U-18 squad, committed to the University of North Dakota. Hockey’s Future projects him as a Number 1 NHL defender saying, “One of the most talented defensemen in the 2010 draft. Exceptional decision-making. Has the size and skating and is very agile. Doesn’t like to carry the puck, but his passes are laser sharp. He could stand to add a bit of grit to his game.
Alexander Burmistrov – Russian centerman who plays for the Barrie Colts of the OHL. In 62 games last season he had 22 goals and 43 assists. “He’s very imaginative in his plays”, Barrie coach Marty Williamson said of Burmistrov to Alessandro Seren Rosso of Hockey’s Future. “His skill level is obvious. He has a high skill level, loves to make players around him better, he’s a think pass-first kind of player. He’s one of those kind of guys that really makes everybody better on the ice”.
Nino Niederreiter – Another Portland Winterhawk, this Swiss left-winger…nicknamed “El Nino”… netted 36 goals and 24 assists in 65 WHL games last season. Puck Daddy’s Bruce Peter writes of Niederreiter, “He’s a strong winger with decent size (6-1, 205 lbs.) that seems to have the ability to slow the game down when the puck is on his stick”.
So again…do any of these players do anything for you? Is there another prospect that might…or would you rather that 8th overall used to procure a proven commodity should Dudley be approached with such a deal?
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103 comments Add your comment
Zim
May 9th, 2010
1:19 pm
Given Dudley’s recent success having a hand in the last several Chicago Blackhawks’ drafts and Atlanta’s 2009 draft class, I’m inclined to trust Dudley’s judgement as well. However, “In Dudley We Trust” is not how I’d describe my thoughts on the general manager.
While I’m unsure of the actual drafts that Dudley engineered for Tampa and Florida (couldn’t find concrete hiring and firing dates), but not much NHL talent (very little) came from the 1999 and 2000 drafts for Tampa and 2003 draft for Florida.
kracker
May 9th, 2010
1:43 pm
Yes, there’s no guarantee Dudley will be successful with the Thrashers and this group of owners. Like you, I don’t know the specifics of Dudley’s past GM jobs but I’ll stick to that motto, which is really just an expression of optimism, until I see next years team (players, coaches, mgmt) fail to produce a better product on the ice. [knock wood]
Zim
May 9th, 2010
1:57 pm
Smoothie – Do the Thrashers need another pivot? Aside from Antropov’s struggles in the faceoff circle, Atlanta’s top two centers performed extremely well this season. Nik had a career year and Peverley, despite struggling in the second half, put up 55 points in his first full season in the NHL with a fantastic faceoff percentage of 52.4 percent.
Lombardi is a solid NHL second line center coming off a career year. Lombardi made $2.35 million, more than a million than Peverley, and finished under 50 percent in the faceoff circle. Peverley is a few months younger than Lombardi and has an NHL point per game average of 0.57 while Lombardi’s career average of 0.53.
Jim Slater’s resurgent second half, should he re-sign, and having Marty Reasoner under contract for next year would give the Thrashers strength up the middle in the bottom six. Slater was excellent at the dot at 58.9 percent and scored at a solid third line pace of 0.42 points per game over the final 41 games (34 points per 82 games).
Lombardi is a solid NHL player and certainly his services would be put to good use in Atlanta especially if Afinogenov is not retained, but where? Do you throw him on the wing? Does that potentially block Evander Kane from playing in the top six next year?
As for Clarke MacArthur, Drew Stafford would be a major upgrade and give the roster much more versatility. Mac has some solid NHL attributes, but Clarke appears to be a 35-40 point man (in fact, Mac has averaged 35 points per 82 games over his career) at the NHL level that can fill in on the second line in a pinch.
Stafford has a much higher ceiling, larger physical presence, and higher end skill overall.
Without a coach, it is very hard to speculate on the makeup of the roster and what type of players will/won’t fit the 2010-11 Thrashers.
World Be Free
May 9th, 2010
2:08 pm
Zim-I always like new thoughts, especially when we have a few on the blog who’s postings are pretty dry.
But we need to avoid most of Buffalo’s core players, like Stafford, Pomniville, Roy, Connolly and Stafford. Stafford was benched for the final playoff game for Cody McCormick, because Stafford refused to use his size in the corners and in front of the net. Stafford has pretty much punched his one way ticket out of Buffalo. “Tin Tim” has ths skills, but avoids all contact. Avoid Connolly at all costs; add to this he is due $4.5M this year and he’s a UFA after the season.
If you are looking for a Buffalo forward, the ONLY one I would consider would be Roy, if you brought him in as a second center. Sabres made the huge mistake of letting Briere and Drury walk for nothing, elevating Roy to the #1 center spot. He’s not a #1 center, maybe a #2 but I expect the Sabres to make players available this summer to clean house, so Roy may be had for a reduced rate.
World Be Free
May 9th, 2010
2:13 pm
Dudley still has a house in the Buffalo area up near Niagara Falls.
Zim, we all know the draft is a crap shoot at best. Not sure if Dudley is the savior, but I do know he is one of the better talent evaluators in the league. We’ll be a better team with hin around, if he has the money to spent on players and scouts.
R. Stroz
May 9th, 2010
4:12 pm
Any line combinations need to have one player built in: Cormier.
Dudley is convinced Cormier is ready for “the show.”
Furthermore, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Spencer Machacek get an opportunity.
My guess, there are several players positioned as trade bait.
Zim
May 9th, 2010
5:16 pm
World Be Free – Personally, I hold onto both picks and continue the build from within… I’m not advocating a trade for Stafford, but using him as an example of the type of player that could be available and deliver the most the value to a franchise like Atlanta.
I’m impressed with Dudley’s recent drafting with the Blackhawks’ and Thrashers’ but his past results with Tampa and Florida create some doubt about his label as a great talent evaluator. Let’s be quite honest, guys that are considered the best in a business, usually have long-term job security. Dudley has bounced around, despite solid results.
I have confidence in Dudley’s ability to build the team and he’s saying all of the right things now.
R. Stroz – I’m not buying the Cormier Kool-Aid (as a top six player) for two reasons. First, Cormier’s point production in the offensive QMJHL is less than a point per game for his career reaching 20 goals just once this year. Danick Paquette was a three time 25-goal scorer in the Q and even put up 36 this year. Cormier, even with other parts of his skill set, is likely not going to produce enough offense on a consistent basis to play in the top six, let along next season.
Secondly, Cormier will be 20 years old by the time next season starts. After his suspension in mid-January, Cormier missed out on a huge development opportunity and sat out of competitive hockey until signing an ATO with Chicago. In seven playoff games, Cormier is pointless with six penalty minutes and a -2.
I believe Cormier will play in the NHL within the next two years, but asking a 20-year old kid to play top six or top nine NHL minutes without much developmental process taking place in the previous nine months to training camp is a tall order.
Spencer Machacek, who scored at a higher rate in a much more difficult league (in terms of individual point productions) as a junior in the WHL, has played two years of minor league hockey and is just now on the cusp of playing NHL hockey. I expect a similar path for Cormier regardless of Dudley’s gushing over his skill set (which I consider public damage control for the Kovalchuk trade; i.e. this is not another Angelo Esposito).
World Be Free
May 9th, 2010
5:48 pm
Zim-I agree that there’s going to be a number of players available for trade, in June and early July. Stafford needs a change of venue, probably to a western conference team like Calgary. Edmonton has always held him in high regard.
While Cormier’s point totals are not impressive, Duds must see something in his overall game that makes his attractive. I’d like to hear his take on Esposito.
HookyBob
May 9th, 2010
8:20 pm
WBF: Sometime back you wrote that Buffalo was all “3rd line players.” My thoughts then were that Vaneck was 1st line material. Now you say the only guy from Buffalo you’d be interested in is Roy. Am I reading your posts wrong..or do you not think Vaneck is worthwhile? I watched him in the “Frozen Four” about 2005+/- and Vaneck was a “man among boys.”
RE Gonchar: I’d love to have him in Thrasher blue,..but at 36 I don’t think he has a lot of good years left.
kracker
May 9th, 2010
8:30 pm
RE Gonchar being 36+ years, Dudley wants a veteran player for locker room leadership. But if he’s going to want $5M for 3 or 4 years, keep looking Dudley.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
5:36 am
Hooky-I am looking more at Sabre players that will be available this summer. Vanek is not available and he shouldn’t be.
Kracker-I would take Gonchar 3 yrs at $18M. Impact player, an immediate upgrade to your backline and your entire team.
Lee
May 10th, 2010
6:52 am
Some people say: “Oh, the 8th pick is worth nothing!” But take Niclas Bergfors for an answer, Lord knows what pick he was, but probably around the 20’s, and in my opinion, has been better than Kane when he got here, and Kane was the number 4 pick! So our eigth pick could be something to hold on to.
kracker
May 10th, 2010
8:04 am
Maybe on Gonchar WBF, if they spend to the cap and they surely won’t. I base a lot of what I think on figuring on using a $47-50M budget to try to bring back most of this year’s team, while projecting to add Kulda and maybe Machacek or Cormier if Duds thinks they are ready. Based on how that goes, we add 1, 2 or 3 forwards and a defenseman if Kubina doesn’t sign. If no Kubina, sure, we need to replace him with a top d-man, which could be Gonchar. When I say no at $5M+ I mean I can’t see signing him (and Kubina) at the expense of not getting the fwd help we will need to replace Kovalchuk, Kozlov and perhaps Army and Max. Bergfors and Kane may both have sophmore slumps, I sort of doubt it but it may happen. Little – we don’t know if he rebounds next seasson. Will Slater score before December lol? Will White be here? Anyway, I don’t see Kubina and Gonchar on the same team.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
8:36 am
kracker-the nice thing about this time of year is that we can toss out scenarios that we like, but may not necessarily see. I agree on Kubina or Gonchar, it’s one or the other or maybe someone else. We know we will not spend to the cap, but somewhere close would be nice. On the flip side, it seems like most of the clubs spending close to the cap are in a world of hurt because of the cap. Too many fat contracts and no trade clauses have let teams searching for improvement with no money.
We still need Dudley to do his “magic”, convincing a potential coach and UFAs outside the organization to come to Atlanta. In our situation, you run the risk of having to overpay a UFA to become a Thrasher. So Dudley has to be a scout, trader and pitch man all at once. I think he knew this when he took the job.
kracker
May 10th, 2010
8:57 am
WBF – Dudley says he’s in no hurry to sign a coaching staff. With the playoffs ongoing, he has to wait. But I AM anxious to know who it will be! Hoping for a guy that, along w/ Duds, will have some players looking at Atlanta and our young core and saying “I can play there.” Do you think the HC is selected by the first week of June? Or more like last year, a few days before the enrty draft?
For players, Dudley may be talking one way and actually be planning on attempting to make some significant trades. Either way, he’s going to talk up the team and players so who knows?
GaVaHokie
May 10th, 2010
9:11 am
I’m not willing to give up the 8th pick for a vet… the player you draft there has much more long term value than Sharp.
Johansen is probably the best choice for his skill, smarts and size. Plus, he seems to be still developing. But, Etem is still my favorite for his raw skill and conditioning. He’s already working with NHL trainers.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
9:13 am
kracker-I’d say we’ll have a HC before the draft. Torchetti and Ramsay are the top 2 candidates; I think he would like their input on trades and draft selections. Not sure of the weight of Waddell’s input on coaches, trades or draft selections, as long as Dudley has the final say.
I still think we are going to see more player for player trades this year, compared to the last 2 years. Some players with NTCs have windows that they can be traded; teams will take advantage of these windows to make deals before the windows close.
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
9:40 am
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NHL&id=1475&line=109777&spln=1
Looks like we’ve got some pretty good arm-chair GM’s on this blog.
WBF & kracker – I don’t think we’ll make a run at Gonchar, but I see us going after Volchenkov or Seidenberg if things don’t work out with Kubina leading up to July 1. Didn’t Duds draft Volchenkov in 2003?
kracker
May 10th, 2010
9:41 am
BTW, WBF ha! Off topic, thinking about your name…Did World B. Free (Lloyd) ever play for the Braves? I can’t remember if they were still in Buffalo when Free was playing or if they had already moved to San Diego.
These NTC trade windows, would they be prior to July 1st?
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
9:44 am
I’m sorry, I meant to type 1999…hard to keep track of all the different GM stints Duds has enjoyed since his first gig in Ottawa.
Just double checked and Volchenkov was a 1st rounder in 2000. Not sure if Duds was OTT’s GM just yet. See if I can figure that one out.
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
9:57 am
Well, Duds was GM the year before Volchenkov was picked. His 2 successful picks were Mike Fisher in the 2nd round and Chris Neil later towards the late middle rounds.
Duds made a ton of deadline deals in 1999 but none of them really amounted to anything as Nelson Emerson, who eventually ended up in ATL along with Damien Rhodes, was the marquee acquisition for the playoff stretch run. Not sure if Duds lasted long enough to make the trade of Rhodes to ATL for “future considerations” or if Marshall Johnston had taken over by then.
kracker
May 10th, 2010
10:12 am
Oh, yes Smoothie, I would like either of those guys! I don’t find Seidenberg linked to Dudley on a quick search. Could be though. And for sure Rick knows of all the available players.
kracker
May 10th, 2010
10:27 am
Smoothie, this from the ESPN article that your rotoworld link above referenced:
“By the way, an NHL source believes the KHL will also takes runs at defenseman Anton Volchenkov and forward Alexander Frolov, both UFAs July 1. Mind you, word is Volchenkov and Frolov would rather stay in the NHL.”
Ugh, the KHL will be a bargaining chip for Volchenkov, driving up his price.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
10:31 am
The question is, will these players WANT to play in the KHL after having played int he NHL?
kracker-Lloyd never played in Buffalo, though I am sure the “B” BRaves would have loved to have had him.
Smoothie-you may be right on Gonchar, but we will keep our options open. Good for Kubina to know we are “looking” at players beyond him.
Red Light
May 10th, 2010
10:35 am
Smoothie and all. I put together the history of Dudley’s GM stints with some notes about his tenures in each city.
Dudley as general manager
1994-1998 Detroit Vipers general manager
1998-99 Ottawa Senators general manager
Hired on June 30, 1998 after the NHL draft, which was held in Buffalo June 27, so he cannot be credited or discredited with any draft picks that year. He left to assume same role in Tampa Bay.
1999-00 to 2001-02 Lightning general manager
In 1999, he left the Senators and joined the Tampa Bay Lightning. To get Dudley, who was under contract, away from Ottawa, the Lightning gave up Rob Zamuner, a second-round pick in either 2000, 2001 or 2002, cash and the right to host three exhibition games at a location of their choice as compensation from Tampa Bay.
Lightning GM was Jacques Demers. At the draft, vice president Dudley stepped in and traded the No. 1 overall pick for the first time in his career on draft day and repeated it a few years later.
The Lightning got goalie Dan Cloutier, Niklas Sundstrom, a 1st- and a 3rd- round selection (later traded to the Sharks) in 2000 from the Rangers for a 1st-round pick (previously acquired from the Blackhawks via the Vancouver Canucks – Pavel Brendl) in 1999.
His drafts in Tampa yielded Sheldon Keefe (125 NHL games), Nikita Alexeev (159 NHL games), Evgeny Artyukhin (199 NHL games) and Alexander Svitov (179 NHL games). “In our opinion (Svitov) was the most complete player in the draft,” Lightning general manager Rick Dudley said. “I think if there’s anybody in the draft that can play in the NHL next year it’s him.”
Kovalchuk was taken 1st by the Thrashers, of course.
The first coach he hired in Tampa was old friend Steve Ludzik from the Vipers and replaced him with old friend John Tortorella, an assistant to Dudley in Buffalo.
2002-03 to 2003-04 Panthers general manager
Upon taking over the Panthers, and for the second time in league history, Dudley traded the #1 pick on a draft day, but unlike the first time when he traded the top pick in 1999, Dudley opted to keep his pick in the first round. To ensure that Atlanta didn’t trade their 2nd overall pick or select Bouwmeester, Dudley threw a 3rd and 4th round pick Waddell’s way and watched as Atlanta selected goalie Kari Lehtonen.
His picks beyond Bouwmeester in year one were Petr Taticek (3 NHL games), Rob Globke (46 NHL games) and Gregory Campbell (good checking forward with 363 games). In 2003, Nathan Horton, Anthony Stewart (remember him?), Kamil Kreps, Stefan Meyer (4 NHL games), Martin Lojek (5 NHL games) and Tanner Glass (111 games).
His first coach, whom he inherited, was Mike Keenan. Dudley fired Keenan Nov. 9, 2003 and took over as interim coach. John Torchetti took over in February and lost his job after 27 games when Jacques Martin replaced Dudley. Dudley’s first coach in Ottawa was Jacques Martin!
Dudley joined the Blackhawks in December of 2004 as Hockey Operations Consultant and was elevated to Director of Player Personnel prior to the 2005-06 season. He worked closely with Senior Vice President Bob Pulford and General Manager Dale Tallon after joining the club.
So, in that capacity, Dudley could have been credited with the 2005 NHL draft, which yielded Jack Skille, Mike Blunden and Nik Hjalmarsson. Jonathan Toews in 2006 (no others have played yet), Patrick Kane in 2007 (no others have played yet), and none in 2008 have played either.
He resigned June 17, 2009 to pursue other opportunities (RE: Thrashers).
GaVaHokie
May 10th, 2010
10:49 am
Red Light… Svitov, oh man! Looks like Dudley has had his share of “Stefan’s” in the past.
He screwed up the 1st and 2nd rounds that year… check out some of the names that got passed over.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NHL_Entry_Draft
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
10:53 am
Red Light — good work…where did you find this information as wiki and such make it tough to figure out start and end dates for GM’s.
The only question I have is when you mentioned he traded the #1 overall pick in 1999, but didn’t the Thrashers have the #1 overall pick by virtue of being an expansion team? Or did he trade the 1st overall pick in 2000 as Tampa finished with only 59 pts that season and were the worst team in the league by 1 point just behind the Thrashers.
R. Stroz
May 10th, 2010
10:57 am
Does anyone know the best day in Don Waddell’s life as a GM?
When the Braves hired Frank Wren.
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
11:05 am
The 2000 NHL Draft was a bit weak to say the least. Drafting Russian forwards was certainly in vogue in the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1999. However, the first 6 Russian forwards taken before Alexander Frolov — Anton Volchenkov was taken right after Frolov as the first Russian D-man — did not really pan out and Nikita Alexeev played almost as many games (159) in the NHL as the 7th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th picks combined in which 4 other Russians were taken after Alexeev at #8. Finally, the Canadiens selected at #13 a player who went on to have a long career that is still going strong. His name: Ron Hainsey. Go figure.
Spud Webb
May 10th, 2010
11:07 am
Well, I was wrong on the sharks!! and I thought for sure Philly would pull an “atlanta hawk” and give game 4 to boston!!!
I love hockey, playoff time makes me sooooooooooo happy!!!
Red Light
May 10th, 2010
11:17 am
Tampa Bay had the No. 1 pick before dealing it away. I’m not sure why Atlanta got the second pick originally, but Brian Burke pulled out a few deals to walk away with both Sedins. Here’s a link to the article. Atlanta traded up to pick Stefan.
http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2007/06/21/entry-draft-1999-how-burke-pulled-off-the-sedins-heist/
J-man
May 10th, 2010
11:18 am
Strongly agree with Zim on Cormier. Dudley is acting like he is just a slam dunk star on the horizon when in fact he could well end up being another Riley Cote and not really be very helpful here. I’m starting to get a little worried that Dudley may be in love with “toughness”, that mythical quality that so many seem to prize. My belief is that Cormier will probably put up 4th line numbers in the NHL and no more. For him to become a useful 2nd line player truly able to put up 2nd line numbers and not a 3rd/4th line guy masquerading as a 2nd line player is a bigger long shot than Dudley seems to think.
I’d keep the 8th overall pick. Can’t say I’m real enthused over a lot of the trade proposals being floated here. I’ll be kind and say that some of them are just as unrealistic as they can be.
Red Light
May 10th, 2010
11:26 am
The Thrashers lost the Draft Lottery to Chicago in 1999, and here’s a quick synopsis of what occurred.
1. The wheeling and dealing began when Vancouver sent defenseman Bryan McCabe and a 2000 first-round pick to the Chicago Blackhawks (which became Pavel Vorobiev, who did next to nothing) for the fourth overall pick (which landed with the Rangers and became Brendl)
2. Brian Burke then sent the No. 4 selection and a pair of third-round picks to the Tampa Bay Lightning for the top overall pick.
3. Next, Vancouver sent the top pick to the expansion Atlanta Thrashers for the No. 2 selection and a conditional 2000 third-rounder. The deal was that the Thrashers would take Stefan, leaving the Canucks to take the Sedins in sequential order.
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
11:47 am
Wow, that was some kind of razzle-dazzle at the top of the ‘99 NHL Draft! Apparently, Duds wasn’t enthralled with the idea of drafting for the future and preferred to parlay the top pick for assets who could play in the immediate future. According to the TBL website on NHL.com, the wheeling and dealing yielded this result:
“Dudley didn’t wait long to make an impact, converting the first overall pick at the 1999 NHL Entry Draft in Boston into five players ready to step in and three high draft future choices for an organization needing a boost in depth. Among the new players acquired in the deal were goaltender Dan Cloutier from the New York Rangers and defenseman Andrei Zyuzin from San Jose, two young players just beginning to realize their potential in the NHL.”
Who those two “young players just beginning to realize their potential” I have yet to determine. Let me go find out.
I will say that whomever was running the Blackhawks from ‘99 to 2001 was absolutely abysmal in their evaluation of talent wasting top pick after top pick on Russians who amounted to nothing.
kracker
May 10th, 2010
11:52 am
Sam Woo, Hockeybuzz New Jersey Devils Blogger, on coaches Lou should consider hiring. Yea, I know it’s from the Devils perspective but what do you think of them as Thrashers candidates?
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Sam-Woo/Devils-coach-merry-go-round-continues/80/28258
Spud Webb
May 10th, 2010
12:00 pm
Zim, some excellent points in regards to cormier. someone else also posted it, this is PR for trading kovy. Lets make this look better than it really is!!!
I wouldn’t mind Gonchar, but fact is I just don’t see him signing here. We’ve got our work cut out for us in regards to getting anyone to come here. Sad but true.
WBF, no way I want stafford on this team or anyteam I “like” or root for!!!!!! A lot of talent, heart I’m not so sure about! It hurts me to write that, but it’s true. I had high hopes for him!!!
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
12:09 pm
Oh wait, those young players they were talking about WERE in fact Cloutier and Zyuzin. Duh. Zyuzin went on to play a total of 107 games with Tampa before having a few productive years for the Minnesota Wild in the early part of this decade. Cloutier lasted all of 2 years and 76 games. After a terrible season in ‘99-’00 (not entirely his fault of course), he gave way to Kevin Weekes of all goalies in ‘00-’01. Weekes actually won 20 games for the Bolts before Khabibulin arrived on the scene to take the reins the following season.
Needless to say, it looks like Dudley’s moves in 1999 amounted to very little in terms of draft pick success, but did yield some assets that helped win a Cup in 2003-’04, namely the acquisition of Freddie Modin in a trade with Toronto that jettisoned Darcy Tucker as well as Cory Sarich from the Sabres in a trade involving Chris Gratton.
Red Light
May 10th, 2010
12:11 pm
I found another interesting tidbit, that of soon-to-be coaches or GMs that appeared on the 1999 Expansion Draft list that were available to be chosen by the Thrashers.
Randy Cunneyworth, James Patrick, Tommy Albelin, Garth Snow, Doug Lidster, Guy Carbonneau, Gord Murphy, Kirk Muller, Dan Bylsma, Bob Carpenter, Joe Sacco, Mike Sullivan, Ron Hextall, Craig Berube and Tony Granato.
Among those who were passed up by the Thrashers included: Dwayne Roloson, Joe Juneau, Geoff Sanderson, Rob Ray, Scott Nichol, Manny Fernandez, Benoit Hogue, Ulf Samuelsson, Jim Dowd, Ray Ferraro, Dave Andreychuk, Sergei Brylin, Sergei Nemchinov, Jeff Beukeboom, Steve Duchesne, Luke Richardson, Richard Park, Paul Coffey and 38-year-old Igor Larionov.
Alan R.
May 10th, 2010
12:14 pm
We saw all series long what the Sharks can do 5-on-7. 5-on-5 is another story altogether.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
12:14 pm
Stroz-right on! Wren is horrible, he has managed this team into the ground-don’t get me started!
Spud-Stafford is soft to the core, another Darcy success story! Let’s hope Dudley can persuade players to come here.
The 1999 NHL Draft was one of the worst I think I have every seen. I saw brendl last time I was in Norway in 2008, playing in the Swedish leagues. “Plastic Tim” Connolly was in that draft too. That was a draft to forget.
Red Light-Dudley’s history would indicate he has had his share of hits and misses, like most GMs. I was looking over the 95-96 media guide the other day, at the massive number of players drafted in all rounds, seeing how few ever made an impact int he NHL, including 1/2 the guys sselected in the 1st round and most of the guys selected in the 2nd round.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
12:30 pm
Red Light-I believe the Thrashers drafted Mark Tinordi as well, but he never played here due to injury.
Most of the guys on the list that were available where on the way down in their careers. I am sure some had contracts that here a bit heavy too. I remember when Punch Imlach put together a team of vets in Buffalo in 1970. They played well the first seasn, then fell off in 71-72.
Smoothie
May 10th, 2010
1:29 pm
We have discussed here several times that Dudley’s draft success was quite limited during his time in Tampa. However, he did make numerous, and I mean numerous, moves to bring in players that would be vital cogs in their Cup run in ‘03-’04. The 2000-’01 season turned out to be an important turning point for the franchise as Rick Dudley managed to pull off the following moves to position the franchise for the future:
1) signed 3rd round pick from 1998, Brad Richards, to an entry-level contract at the 11th hour before training camp in 2000
2) signed UFA from Calgary, Marty St. Louis before the 2000 campaign
3) fired his first HC Steve Ludzik during the season and elevated assistant coach John Tortorella to Head Coach and brought in the recently deposed Craig Ramsay from Philly as his assistant
4) in March of 2001, Dudley pulled off a trade with Phoenix for established goalie Nikolai Khabibulin (and D-man Stan Neckar) in return for ‘97 #1 pick Paul Mara, Mike Johnson, 2nd round pick Zaynullin, whom he drafted in 2000
Of course, later on in 2001, he also brought in UFA Dave Andreychuk and traded for young defenseman Dan Boyle from Florida in early 2002 before leaving for the Panthers’ GM job at the conclusion of the 2002 season.
World Be Free
May 10th, 2010
2:20 pm
Smoothie- I.D.W.T.
Red Light
May 10th, 2010
4:12 pm
There’s not a GM alive that hasn’t had hits and misses, but it’s the entire body of work that is important to determine whether or not a GM has done his job, not one draft pick, one signing or one trade. So, we can cite examples on both sides and in this day in age of the cap, some deals invariably can look better or worse depending upon the situation. Was he unloading to make cap room, or was he able to score a good deal because of generous cap space?
Saying that, Dudley’s tenure in Ottawa, Tampa Bay and Florida can almost be tossed out the window because it was pre-Cap, right? And, if we consider Chicago, do we really know what he was instrumental in accomplishing because he was not in a position of “final say” correct? Or maybe he was?
The lone problem I have with Dudley is that he is now with his fifth team in 12 seasons, and three of those in the Southeast Division. So, I find myself asking that if he is indeed a keen evaluator of talent, both amateur and professional, then why is it that he has never stayed put in one position. Being GM in Ottawa in 1998 didn’t exactly have the same cache then as it might have now, because the previous owner was going broke when he was there. Ditto Tampa in 1999. Florida could be viewed as one of the most horrid outposts in the NHL. Then, he leaves Chicago a couple weeks before Tallon is purged in favor of Bowman the Younger only to wind up here.
Now, the optimist in me says what a break for the Thrashers and Dudley, while the pessimistic side yells in my ear, “something doesn’t seem right with this entire situation.”
The NHL is loaded with guys that move from one team to another, yet I haven’t found one in a managerial position that has had five jobs in 12 years. Brian Burke has held four such positions, but those have been since 1992. Bryan Murray has had four too, but those were since 1990.
Of course, we all hope for the best given the past 11 years of personnel decisions we’ve endured, and I do think he’s a better option at this point in time, but the question is, what is his motivation for doing this job at this point in time?
So, in my Bill O’Reilly best, I ask “What say you?”
Alan R.
May 10th, 2010
4:48 pm
So, in my Bill O’Reilly best, I ask “What say you?”
If you really were Bill O, the TV would be off by now.
Sage of Bluesland
May 10th, 2010
5:05 pm
…Now, the optimist in me says what a break for the Thrashers and Dudley, while the pessimistic side yells in my ear, “something doesn’t seem right with this entire situation.”…
Folks, we have a winning statement here…”Duds” will be gone in three years’ time…Thank goodness we have Don Waddell ready to step in when the organization needs him most…
Some just want to BEWIEVE so badly!!!
Brendan
May 10th, 2010
10:00 pm
I hope Brian Boucher will be okay. Leighton entered in relief, for his first start since March. Leighton didn’t let in a single goal. Leighton came in when the score was 1-0. Flyers win another “elimination” game, 4-0. “Bonus” hockey!! Philly’s ownership jumps for joy! $2 million in pure profit is comin’ their way, in Game Six!
Segue, Montreal has forced a seventh game vs. Pittsburgh. That’s really incredible. If someone had told me Montreal would push Washington to seven games, I would have laughed. To say the Habs would eliminate the Capitals, would make question the dosage level of the drugs you were on. And to say that Montreal would then push the defending Stanley Cup Champions to seven games, would have me motioning to men in the ‘white coats’ that we’ve got a real ‘live one’ here.
It almost makes me want to root for Montreal. But I still have this nagging notion that the Stanley Cup Playoffs should actually contain the best teams from the regular season. When lower seeds like # 6, # 7, and # 8 compose three-quarters of the CSF, it is cause for concern. And if it’s # 7 vs. # 8 in the CF, then something is wrong with the playoff format, for CLEARLY, those seeds don’t reflect the PREMIER franchises of the league. That’s my opinion. I certainly welcome others.
Chicago will get their chance to be “perfect” in British Columbia in these playoffs, by going 3-0 vs. the Canucks. Will these series ever end??? The NHL must be “thrilled” by these extended series. Bettman would probably love for every series to go seven games. Sweep series leave money on the table. $6 million worth, to be precise.
Hokey Clisters
May 10th, 2010
10:16 pm
Duds “sounds” good in his Q&A with Ben Wright on Thrashers website. He was very telling about what he’s looking for in a coach. Number one he wants a coach that can make adjustments for other teams style of play……..where have we heard that before?
Duds says its good to have coaches that can equal out each other’s temperaments – such as a hard nose “in your face” coach paired with another coach who is good at commuicating with the players. Sounds like he has a good idea what he wants.
I’m OK with the Thrashers trading or keeping their draft picks as long as Duds is left to make the final decision “and” AS gives him the moolah to sign who he wants……….I hope that’s not a pipedream.
If Duds can turn Thrashers around then the Braves may ask him for help to fix their their coaching mess when Bobby retires…….
Elrod has chimed in and says Braves should try batting with hockey sticks and jump the next opponent who crosses “their” home plate. Says they should sign Boults to take someone out. Also note that Elrod is quite enamored with Cormier and his inclinations for goonery and such.
HookyBob
May 10th, 2010
10:48 pm
WBF: Understood on Vanek, reading comprehension never was my strong suite. Back on the best commentators,..Danny Galavan was really good. That brings back memories of Brian McFarland and Foster Hewitt.
The way Gonchar looked tonight he might be worth Kubina’s salary for 3 more years. I’d be happy with one of the following anchoring our blueline, Gonchar, Volchenkov, or Kubina. Other suggestions welcomed.
So I’m going to buy a lottery ticket. If I had a choice should I bring Camarelli’s or Halek’s lucky rabbits foot with me?
Brendan,..I’ll gladly cheer for the Habs, even though I don’t have a dog in this fight. This year they are what hockey is all about. Not sure what can be done to improve the play-off format. The lower seeds still must overcome home-ice advantage (although I think it is over-rated) to advance. Whoever is playing the best hockey from April on should advance. Best of 7 should assure that team advances. Any suggestions on changing the play-off format?
Stroz: Great line!
Rawhide
May 10th, 2010
11:20 pm
Looks like we still have some more round-two hockey to enjoy over the next few days. Here’s a new blog to discuss how the Canucks, Flayers and Habs refuse to bow out quietly.