What if the NHL did away with the overtime ‘loser’ point?

One subject that circles around the world of NHL hockey is the discussion of how points are calculated in the standings. As you know, currently 2 points are doled out for wins…a single point if you lose in overtime or the shootout. This formula comes from the past when games ending in a tie score remained so without the need for overtime or the shootout to break it. As such, two points were given for wins and one for each team in games that end in a draw. When the league pushed to insure all games have a declared “winner”, they kept the extra point for teams that lost in extra time…as they would have gained that point in the “old way” of calculating the standings.

However, this point awarded for simply getting the game into overtime before eventually losing is what I call the consolation “loser point”.

Many I’ve spoken to about this cite the inequity of having some games worth 2 points, those that end in regulation…and some games being worth three, such as with any overtime games. To make things more fair, some argue for a three point standard where 3 points are awarded to winners in regulation and doing the 2/1 split when it goes to OT. To be honest…I would prefer this to the current system.

Alex Ovechkin and the Capitals would still be atop the Eastern Conference if only wins and losses counted in the standings...but would that lead be as comfortable? (AP Photo/Jeff Roberson)

Alex Ovechkin and the Capitals would still be atop the Eastern Conference if only wins and losses counted in the standings...but would that lead be as comfortable? (AP Photo/Jeff Roberson)

However, another argument is that if the league is going to insist that each game has a “winner”, then each game must simply have a “loser”…and as such, simply do away with the consolation “loser point”, then go with Ws and Ls. Nothing more, nothing less.

But if the league adopted such a change, would it make much of a difference in the way the standing look today with the current points system?

Well… let’s take a look, shall we, by reviewing theNHL division and conference standings as it looks now that we’ve reached the Olympic break.

In the east, the division leaders…and top-three playoff seeds…are Washington, (90 points)… New Jersey, (77)… and Ottawa, (76). The teams currently holding the wild card positions are Pittsburgh, (76)… Buffalo, (75)… Philadelphia, (67)… Boston, (65)…and Montreal (64). Those on the outside looking in are Tampa Bay, (63)… NY Rangers (63)…Atlanta, (62)…Florida, (58)…NY Islanders, (58)…Carolina, (55)…and Toronto (49).

Out west, it’s San Jose, (89 points), Chicago, (87) and Vancouver, (76) as the division leaders and top-three seeds. The wild card teams are Phoenix, (79)…Los Angeles, (78)…Colorado, (76)…Nashville, (71)…and Calgary (69). Those below the playoff line are Dallas, (68)…Detroit, (68)…Anaheim, (67)…St. Louis, (65)…Minnesota, (64)…Columbus, (60)…and Edmonton, (44).

Now…let’s see how the standings would take shape if only Ws and Ls were taken into consideration. Overtime losses are the same as regulation losses…you know, just like overtimes wins are just like regulation wins.

In this system, the standings would resemble those of Major League Baseball or the NBA…wins, losses and winning percentages are all that matters. Then, there is a calculation of “games behind” for all those who are not in first place.

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Atlantic Division

Team                             W            L            Win %            GB    

New Jersey                   37            24            .607            —

Pittsburgh                     36            26            .581            1.5

Philadelphia                  32            28            .533            4.5

NY Rangers                  28            34            .452            9.5

NY Islanders                 25            37             .403            12.5

Northeast Division

Team                           W            L            Win %            GB    

Ottawa                         36            27            .571            —

Buffalo                         33            27            .550            1.5

Montreal                      29            34            .460            7.0

Boston                         27            33            .450            7.5

Toronto                        19            42            .311            16.0

 Southeast Division

Team                             W            L            Win %            GB    

Washington                  41            21            .661            —

Atlanta                          26            34            .433            14.0

Tampa Bay                   26            35            .426            14.5

Florida                          24            37            .393            16.5

Carolina                        24            37            .393            16.5

 Eastern Conference Playoff Standings – Division Leaders

Team                              W            L            Win %            GB    

1. Washington                41            21            .661            —

2. New Jersey                37            24            .607            —

3. Ottawa                       36            27            .571            —

Eastern Conference Playoff Standings – Wild Card

Team                              W            L            Win%            GB    

4. Pittsburgh                 36            26            .581            —

5. Buffalo                      33            27            .550            2.0

6. Philadelphia             32            28            .533            3.0

7. Montreal                   29            34            .460            7.5

8. NY Rangers              28            34            .452            8.0

- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -

9. Boston                     27            33            .450            8.0

10. Atlanta                   26            34            .433            9.0

11. Tampa Bay             26            35            .426            9.5

12. NY Islanders          25            37             .403           11.0

13. Florida                   24            37            .393            11.5

14. Carolina                 24            37            .393            11.5

15. Toronto                  19            42            .311            16.5

 

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Central Division

Team                            W            L            Win %            GB    

Chicago                       41            20            .672             —

Nashville                      33            28            .541            8.0

Detroit                          28            33            .459            13.0

St. Louis                       28            34            .452            13.5

Columbus                     25            38            .397            17.0

Northwest Division

Team                             W            L            Win%            GB    

Vancouver                    37            24            .607            —

Colorado                       35            25            .574            2.0

Minnesota                     30            31            .492            7.0

Calgary                          30            32            .484            7.5

Edmonton                      19            42            .311            18.0

Pacific Division

Team                            W            L            Win%            GB    

San Jose                       40            22            .645            —

Los Angeles                  37            24            .607            2.5

Phoenix                         37            26            .587            3.5

Anaheim                        30            32            .484            10.0

Dallas                            28            33            .459            11.5

Western Conference Playoff Standings – Division Leaders

Team                            W            L            Win %            GB    

1. Chicago                    41            20            .672            —

2. San Jose                   40            22            .645            —

3. Vancouver                37            24            .607            —

Western Conference Playoff Standings – Wild Card

Team                            W            L            Win%            GB    

4. Los Angeles             37            24            .607            —

5. Phoenix                    37            26            .587            1.0

6. Colorado                  35            25            .574            1.5

7. Nashville                  33            28            .541            4.0

8. Minnesota                30            31            .492            7.0

- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - -

9. Anaheim                   30            32            .484            7.5

10. Calgary                  30            32            .484            7.5

11. Detroit                    28            33            .459            9.0

12. Dallas                     28            33            .459            9.0

13. St. Louis                 28            34            .452            9.5

14. Columbus               25            38            .397            12.0

15. Edmonton               19            42            .311            18.0 

As you can see, there is no change in regards to the teams that lead the six divisions. However, out west, Chicago would be the top seed…San Jose would be the second. It’s the opposite using today’s NHL point system method.

New Jersey would still be the number two seed in the east, but would trail first-seed Washington by just three games for the top spot in the conference. Right now, they trail the Caps by 13 points. This is because the Devils have just 3 overtime losses…the fewest in the NHL… while the Capitals have eight.

Also, there are some changes in division positioning…case in point, the Thrashers would be in second place in the Southeast and the Lighting would be third. They would also be in 10th place in the conference instead of 11th and just one game out of the final playoff spot.

The Rangers and Flyers also would switch places as would Boston and Montreal, LA and Phoenix as well as Dallas and Anaheim.

In the conference standings, Montreal would move from the eighth and final spot in the east up on notch to seventh…while Boston would fall from 7th to 9th and out of a playoff spot altogether. In their place would go the NY Rangers.

Martin Havlat, Guillaume Latendresse and the Minnesota Wild would benefit most in a Ws & Ls only environment (AP Photo/Tom Olmscheid)

Martin Havlat, Guillaume Latendresse and the Minnesota Wild would benefit most in a Ws & Ls only environment (AP Photo/Tom Olmscheid)

Out west, Minnesota would move all the way up from 13th to 8th, while Calgary would lose it’s playoff spot, going from 8th to 10th. The Wild only have 4 overtime losses, the Flames have 9.

The Dallas Stars and Detroit Red Wings are benefiting most from the current points system given they each have 12 overtime losses. This is why they are but 1 point removed from the playoffs. With just Ws and Ls considered, they drop to the 11th and 12th spots in the Western Conference…but still just 2 games out.

Also worth noting is how Carolina would not be alone in the southeast cellar…they would actually be tied with Florida. The Panthers currently posses 10 “loser” points while the Hurricanes have just 7.

175 comments Add your comment

B. Thenet

February 16th, 2010
9:33 pm

This will be my last post on this blog until you resign from that fraud Eklund’s site.

Not only did some clown from Vancouver post that absurd rumor, but then Eklund reports the same one and thinks it is a great idea that we lose our hockey team.

Rawhide

February 16th, 2010
9:44 pm

B. Thenet – Ya know, I just had someone post over there that he’s only gonna read me here at the AJC now because of that…

But hey…seriously…if I don’t blog over there then whose gonna represent Thrasherville on Ek’s site?

Brendan

February 16th, 2010
9:57 pm

Red Lights quote: You ask any NHL player, and they will fully admit some guys or teams don’t start playing until January.

We call that player: Jim Slater

Brendan

February 16th, 2010
10:08 pm

USA 3, Switzerland 1. We’re off to a good start. Before you laugh, Waddell’s Torino squad went 1-3-1, before losing its only playoff game. Why does THAT sound familiar? Anywho, in 2006, the U.S.’s only win came over Kazakhstan. To get a win over Switzerland … is a better result. Every game becomes that much more important now.

R. Stroz

February 16th, 2010
10:15 pm

You are like, amazingly pyschic. I’ve never seen anything like it. Now, you did also say the Thrashers are staying in Atlanta, right?

Brendan – After concerted comprehensive concentration, my clairvoyant clarity concerning this condition will reach a clear conclusion within the next six blue moons and two leap years.

World Be Free

February 16th, 2010
10:31 pm

You’d think the Canadian media would be too busy in Vancouver to start this stupid garbage again. If Bettman is going to hold the Yotes in Phoenix, you think he’s not going tot do the same in Atlanta? Helping Tampa find a new owner so the Bolts STAY in TB? I said it before, I have lost all respect for the Canadian media, they are like turds in a toilet. If Winnipeg and Quebec City were so great, why didn’t they do more to keep their teams? Same goes for their provinces, in the country where hockey is “their game”. Hypocracy in the first degree.

Brendan, remember Slater was in the press box for the first few weeks of this season. Like a few other players that have somehow escaped the cat bird seat.

kracker

February 16th, 2010
10:33 pm

Thanks for reminding me of the poor USA effort in 06, Brendan! lol…nowhere to go but up from there I guess. That team had way too many past-prime NHLers, this squad should fare better.

kracker

February 16th, 2010
10:35 pm

Oh, Rawhide, I like you on HB and the team/city needs you to be there representin’

R. Stroz

February 16th, 2010
11:10 pm

Brendan – Can you tell I “C” things others miss, the key to being a psychic.

Viking

February 16th, 2010
11:54 pm

World Be Free,

I do not know what to think about Team Sweden. With a few exceptions (Toby), it has almost been a requirement to suffer a substantial injury to qualify for the team. If everybody has recovered fully, they should be seen as a wild card for the final. If not, they will have a tough time to get a bronze medal.

Also, I think there are players (like Tomas Holmström) that I rather would have seen on the roster instead of Fredrik Modin, Douglas Murray and even Peter Forsberg. I have to admit though, it will be interesting to see “Foppa” in action again!

Viking

February 17th, 2010
12:17 am

Watching Kovy right now. Russia against Latvia.

Viking

February 17th, 2010
12:44 am

3-0 Russia after 1st period. Russia will be hard to beat. I think they will win the Gold.

That Nikulin guy would have been nice to have….

Viking

February 17th, 2010
1:49 am

Nice goal by Kovy. 7-1

stendec

February 17th, 2010
1:57 am

So the sorry son of a betch scored a goal against Latvia! Whoop dee do. Russia will win gold medal? No chance in Hell! This is Latia for the love of God. USA sucked in narrow victory over weak Swiss team! Hope Russia gets absolutely waxed before this damn Olympics bullshet is over. Nothing but ill wishes for Thrasher killer Ilya Kovalchoke. Bestard! ++STENDEC++ Have been happy with USA women however. Love beatdown they put on Russians. Hope IK and pals enjoyed it too Eh komrades?

Tony C.

February 17th, 2010
3:53 am

I know Federov hjas been quoted intimating that this Russian squad isn’t as good as the Soviet era, but man, I’ll take A-O, Datsyuk, Semin (1) & #17, Malkin, Afinegenov as my top6 any day.

World Be Free

February 17th, 2010
5:49 am

Viking-Swedish buddy of mine sent me some youtube videos of Foppa earlier this year. He’s not looking too bad. I am sure he’s having fun playing in the Swedish League this year, miss him in the NHL for sure.

Whoever has the hot goalie and The King can get hot.

World Be Free

February 17th, 2010
7:54 am

Isn’t funny to listen to the Canadian media. One of the excuses for the Winnipeg fans not totally supporting the Winnipeg Jets was because “well, they were the Jets”. But when Thrashers fans don’t fill Phillips Arena, it’s because we are bad hockey fans, with no reference to the quality of product on the ice for a decade.

Like I said before, hypocrisy, add stupidity to it as well.
And I have given up Eklund forever. Why I lasted this long is beyond me.

DWTOO

February 17th, 2010
8:18 am

Undoubtedly we have our problems in Atlanta – the ownership fiasco has been well documented. The funny thing is every town mentioned that we’re going to move to, except Hamilton (like the Leafs would allow that!) has failed hockey teams. Kansas City and Las Vegas couldn’t support AHL or ECHL teams. Winnipeg and Quebec both lost their teams.

We’re just the current whipping boy – remember a few years ago when Pitt burgh had ownership problems? Same thing they were moving too. Nashville too. The Bettman regime has worked hard to keep current franchises in place.

I do like the idea of expansion teams in these markets if they like.

One good point – if Eklund reports it unlikely to happen.

Viking

February 17th, 2010
8:54 am

Stendec, I am happy Kovalchuk is gone too. However, it will not stop me from appreciating a nice play.

World Be Free

February 17th, 2010
8:55 am

DWTOO-one day, I hope the “dominos” drop on Eklund’s head!

Get The Puck Out

February 17th, 2010
8:59 am

Leave the scoring system as is, just make the SO best out of five.

Get The Puck Out

February 17th, 2010
9:19 am

ESPN is also reporting Thrashers to Winnipeg. WTF? Bettman needs to come foward and end these rumors.

GaVaHokie

February 17th, 2010
9:59 am

Thrashers citing… Just saw an Olympic piece on the “Today Show” with Matt Lauer and Michael Buble skating with the Vancouver Giants… Evander Kane was practicing with the team wearing his Thrashers jersey.

Russ

February 17th, 2010
10:11 am

The scoring system should stay the same with the exception that the Thrashers should be awarded 3 pts. for each win. This would make up for the handicap that is DW and the ASG.

Rawhide

February 17th, 2010
10:12 am

sigh…OK, guys, have a look-see at this article from the Winnipeg Free Press which correctly points out there is no truth to this P.O.S. rumor.

So…can we now just stop giving this fabricated story more time then it deserves?

Alan R.

February 17th, 2010
10:13 am

Interesting reading here.

jt

February 17th, 2010
10:32 am

Thanks Rawhide and Alan R.

Smoothie

February 17th, 2010
10:40 am

Hope we see Evander Kane on Olympic ice in Socchi come 2014 as Jarome Igninla passes the torch to the youngster who idolizes him.

I can’t help be happy for Iggy after scoring a hatty against Norway in front of the home fans in Western Canadia.

DWTOO

February 17th, 2010
10:53 am

Wow – responsible Canadian journalism. Article does a good job in pointing out the problems and reasons re-location is unlikely.

I’d really like to see the NHL expand into a couple more Canadian markets, but, I’ve had my fill of their wanting to steal our team.

World Be Free

February 17th, 2010
10:58 am

Thanks for the link

Hockey Biltong

February 17th, 2010
11:00 am

Any word on the skate with heated blade that some players were trying out a few seasons ago??? It’s better than talking about points or re-location…..

Alan R.

February 17th, 2010
11:30 am

Here’s another gem from the Winnipeg Free Press.

somaatl95

February 17th, 2010
11:47 am

We should start up a website called HockeyBSRumors.com and talk about how under-performing Canadian teams (cough, Oilers, cough)will be moving to Mississippi or New Orleans or some place that would really irritate those rumor spreading hosers (how does the Hawaii Alohas sound as a team?)

Badger Bob

February 17th, 2010
11:55 am

WBF – great point on Jets moving because “the Jets were the Jets”. Atlanta’s attendance problems actually prove (despite what the Canadian press says) the Atlantans know hockey, and will pay to see good hockey. Why don’t these rumors swirl around Colorado, with so-so attendance that has actually dropped this year despite having a better team, or NJ, with attendance chronically below what it should be for such a successful franchise? Oh yes, because Canadians don’t hate those cities for having both an NHL team and beautiful weather. And DWTOO, that hatred/envy of the south is why they talk relocation rather than expansion – it accomplishes two goals.

Adios

February 17th, 2010
12:14 pm

The Thrashers are gone. Maybe not to Winnipeg and probably not next year but as soon as the ownership legal issues are resolved the team will be on the block.

There is only one way to put rumors to sleep. That is for the ASG to GUARANTEE in season ticket contracts that a NHL franchise will be in Atlanta for a minimum of 3 years. This term should be standard going forward.

If committed to the Atlanta market (the above proposed term does not limit the ASG’s ability to sell the franchise, so long that it remains in Atlanta) the ASG could easily do this. However they will not. That should tell you everything you need to know.

If they did I would probably step up and buy a full season ticket package myself. However I am not going to get burned again as this whole episode is history repeating itself again (Flames).

Alan R.

February 17th, 2010
12:28 pm

but as soon as the ownership legal issues are resolved the team will be on the block.

The court battle is long over. Just sayin’.

Barry

February 17th, 2010
12:33 pm

Going back to the comments about Chelios and Kulda…you could tell Kulda played like he knew what he was doing out there. He seemed to know what to do and exactly when to do it. There was no real hesitation to his game at all. Man I wish we could lock Chelios and Bogosian on an ice rink for a week to straighten Zach out. Most of the time Zach hesitates and doesn’t look sure at all what to do with the puck especially in his own zone. He’s constantly turning the puck over around our own goal line. Anyway, all the Wolves defensemen better take notes and learn all they can from Chelios. It will definately strengthen our defense in the coming years.

Adios

February 17th, 2010
12:41 pm

Alan R. – The court case may be resolved but Belkin is still technically an owner. Until he is bought out a cloud remains. That is one of the reasons the ASG are seeking additional investors. (The bigger reason is that they don’t have the deep pockets to absorb recurring losses.)

If you are a STH I encourage you (and other STHs) to seek a clause in your contract guaranteeing the presence of a NHL franchise in Atlanta. Let us all know if they agree.

Alan R.

February 17th, 2010
1:01 pm

The court case may be resolved but Belkin is still technically an owner.

Yes, that is correct. However, you’ve failed to mention “legal issues.” The only thing I could think of was the court battle.

The “moving the goalposts” method of debate looks oddly familiar.

Adios

February 17th, 2010
1:14 pm

Alan R. – I truly hope that you are correct, that I’m wrong, and that the Thrashers remain forever. Unfortunately I don’t see that happening. Certainly not the fault of Atlanta but rather incompetant ownership and, more importantly, financially challenged ownership that will necessitate a change. My only hope is that the league will step in and protect a top ten media market. As I stated last year, contrary to what many viewed positively, the supply of assistance provided to Phoenix and now to Tampa is of limited supply and the well will be dry when it comes to Atlanta.

Smoothie

February 17th, 2010
1:22 pm

Barry – preach it brotha! We should all chip-in and buy Zach a plane tkt to Chicago so he can secretly practice with Cheli and the Wolves. As we all know, the ASG is too cheap to provide the airfare and per-diem for Mr. Bah-go-zee-in.

GaVaHokie

February 17th, 2010
1:23 pm

If you are a STH I encourage you (and other STHs) to seek a clause in your contract guaranteeing the presence of a NHL franchise in Atlanta. Let us all know if they agree.

Huh?!… I’m pretty sure if the team moves to Winnepeg, you’d get your money back.

Besides, Season Tickets are renewed on an annual basis. So, why would they make any long term promise on a one year ticket package?

GaVaHokie

February 17th, 2010
1:32 pm

Yes, that is correct. However, you’ve failed to mention “legal issues.” The only thing I could think of was the court battle.

The “moving the goalposts” method of debate looks oddly familiar.

haha… yes, the last time I checked, “legal” was a term used for court systems. :)

Adios… since you’re so on top of the “legal” issues surrounding the team, maybe you’d like to share the two legal reasons why the Thrashers CAN’T be relocated.

Bob

February 17th, 2010
1:49 pm

No one has answered my question, so I’ll pose it again (and if no one’s answered, then does this mean that none of us have been contacted yet for playoff tix and/or season tix for next year?):

Has anyone been contacted by a ticket rep recently to sign up for season tickets for next year and get playoff priority tickets for this year? The club is in reach of the playoffs, and it’s not a Mora Moment to talk about them, why aren’t they out there pushing tickets?

Rawhide

February 17th, 2010
1:54 pm

Bob – I spoke with my contact at the Spirit Group. I was told that playoff ticket sales as well as STH renewals will go out in the next couple of weeks…end of February/beginning of March.

World Be Free

February 17th, 2010
1:59 pm

Badger Bob-thanks and you could say the same things about Quebec Nordiques. They were not properly supported; when the threat came about that the Nords were going to move, 50 people showed up in support.

All this garbage about Hamilton, Winnipeg and Qubec City being viable NHL markets is just that- garbage. You would be better off putting another team north of Toronto.

Smoothie

February 17th, 2010
2:06 pm

Bob, my tkt rep told me that they have not yet finalized the pricing for next year and that’s the reason he’s held back on “playoff calls”, but he’s more involved in group sales these days. He says that some reps have not hesitated in calling their people and asking them about deposits. However, most of the STH plans came with right of first refusal so I’m not sure why they would mount a huge campaign for the playoffs until early March.

Chris16

February 17th, 2010
2:13 pm

My idea I like 2 points for regulation win and win in OT No But if tied after OT then you get your loser 1 point.

Badger Bob

February 17th, 2010
2:19 pm

Bob, no, there’s been no contact. Then again, they’ve done all the ticketing different this year – no “Friends and Family” or “Upgrades” deals like previous years, and the December “ST for the remainder of the year” deal wasn’t nearly as generous (i.e., cheap) as the previous year. This doesn’t mean the team is moving. It means they don’t want to give away or subsidize as many tickets this year. But there’s no doubt they never do enough to sell tickets.

On the team sale front, who thinks ASG would offer an NHL record contract at the same time as they are trying to sell the team? ASG may not know hockey, but they are fairly smart business people and they would know that tying the hands of a future owner to a contract like that could diminish the franchise sale price. Thrashers were willing to pay Kovy a premium because he was the “face of the franchise”. A new owner moving a team to a new market would not need to overpay for a face – the arrival of the franchise itself would be enough to generate excitement. Plus, as owners of the arena, what’s their motivation to get rid of one of their major tenants? The ASG arrangement is a little like the Braves/TBS arrangement a few years back, when the Braves got way less than market value from TBS for TV rights because it was advantageous for Turner to show a baseball team making no money (like at Collective Bargaining Agreement time) and show a station making tons of money (like when you are selling to Time Warner). In this case, Thrashers lose money (and get subsidized) while the arena makes money.

R. Stroz

February 17th, 2010
2:33 pm

Then again, they’ve done all the ticketing different this year – no “Friends and Family” or “Upgrades” deals like previous years,

Badger Bob – Oh yes they did.

Bob – I’m awaiting a return call from my rep. I imagine “the marketing boys” are trying to figure out pricing with the loss of their “premiere player.”

After looking at nhlnumbers.com, the Thrashers are once again in the bottom quarter of the league in payroll, 25th to be exact, and that’s with full bonus payouts calculated in for Kane and Bogosian. If Kozlov or any other player with a substantive salary, even on a pro-rated basis, is dropped from the books, such as Kubina, the Thrashers will tumble quickly to the 27th position.

Here’s the link:

http://nhlnumbers.com/compare.php?season=0910