Ilya Kovalchuk and Thrasherville’s 5,000-pound reindeer
As Thrashervillians hustle to and fro getting their holiday shopping wrapped up…while at the same time enjoying their team’s 17-11-3 record thus far…there still is this one subject looming over our heads. It is the topic of discussion that has been with us for quite a while, mind you…stirring about in the background of our conversations as spring turned to summer and the summer gave way to fall…through Halloween, into Thanksgiving weekend…and now as we prepare for our annual winter holidays.
That subject is, of course, the ongoing contract talks between the Thrashers’ organization and their captain Ilya Kovalchuk. Now, as fall cedes to winter, Hanukah has begun and Christmas rapidly approaches…it remains with us still. And while much has already been said in the topic…the time is rapidly approaching where chatter must give way to action.
Could John Anderson soon have to deal with a Thrashers squad minus Kovalchuk? (AP Photo/The Canadian Press, Darryl Dyck)
Up ‘til this time, Kovy’s contract status was much like that tiny mouse in Clement Clark Moore’s poem of 1822 who ceases it’s stirring on Christmas Eve. It was there, certainly…but not a big problem just yet.
However, the more time passes it begins to appear less like that small rodent and more like a 5,000-pound reindeer in the middle of Santa’s pack.
When a creature that size stirs about, one cannot help but take notice…and it isn’t taking Christmas off, either.
Furthermore, the longer this 5,000-pound reindeer hangs around…the more likely it becomes that it’ll bring down this promising season much in the same fashion the oversized Rudolph would drag down ol’ St. Nick’s sleigh if left attached with the rest of the team of flying reindeer.
But why is this discussion more prominent now than a few weeks back…or a few weeks from now, you ask? Well, I’m glad you asked.
See, if we go back to last September, we find this article posted by Jeff Schultz just before the season began. When asked about Kovy’s contract situation, general manager Don Waddell offered up the following response…“I don’t think we’ll be talking about this at Christmas time”.
Hmmmm… well, given that the weather has turned a bit colder… I still have trips to make to Costco, Macy’s, Walmart and Borders Book Store in the coming nine days…and that the program interrupted a few weeks back by President Obama was “A Charlie Brown Christmas”…it seems as though Christmas is indeed upon us.
And we are still “talking about this”.
Then there is this little write up fresh off the Russian presses…which basically states that Waddell and Kovalchuk’s agent, Jay Grossman, are at a bit of an impasse. According to the story…as I understand it with great assistance from our good friend and frequent contributor “Russian”… Grossman is asking for 10-years at the maximum allowable pay of $11.5 million per year. Waddell and the Thrashers, reportedly, are worried that this is more money than they want to shell out to retain Kovy’s services beyond this year.
Ilya Kovalchuk was the top draft pick in 2001 and has scored 314 goals for the Thrashers (AP photo/John Bazemore)
Now, I have long held the belief that the Thrashers have been looking to sign their Russian phenom at around the rate of about $10 million per season…a figure I come up with by adding Kovalchuk’s current salary with that of fellow countryman Slava Kozlov. I contend that the organization will opt not to re-sign Kozlov…who will be 38-years of age in May…and simply transfer that $3.667 mil or so from his ledger to Kovy’s.
If so…then the two parties are about a million per and a half per year apart.
The article also goes on to read that Don Waddell is now considering what he would seek in return for Kovalchuk, should a trade become necessary in the event this gap cannot be bridged.
However, that flies in the face of what Don Waddell indicated just last spring when discussing the matter with Chris Vivlamore who wrote…“General manager Don Waddell told the Journal-Constitution last week that, unequivocally, Kovalchuk will remain with the team as it attempts to re-sign one of the NHL’s elite players. There will be no trade deadline move — such as with Marian Hossa — if negotiations reach an impasse”.
Continuing on that thought, Waddell stated, “I think [the Thrashers and Kovalchuk] will both know where we are way before the season starts if it is going to happen…That doesn’t mean it can’t happen once the season starts. My mission is to keep Ilya Kovalchuk here, whether that happens in July or August or we have to go out and prove that we are a team that’s going to take that next step we are fine with that.”
So Thrasherville, the long and short of the situation, regardless if this rumor is based in fact or not, is… the clock still ticks. And just as Christmas will arrive whether we are ready or not, so too will the time arrive to finally get something done.
If Kovalchuk and Grossman are going to dig in and refuse to budge from their reported demand of 10-years $115 million to re-sign him, there are but three possible choice for Waddell and the Thrashers to consider.
In regards to Kovy's contract, the Thrashers should...
- Pay Kovy what is being asked to keep Kovy here (51%, 81 Votes)
- Trade Kovy if the price is too high (41%, 65 Votes)
- Keep Kovy through the season no matter what (8%, 14 Votes)
Total Voters: 160
Loading ...1.Pay Kovy the money! Whatever it is he’s asking for…cough it up and keep him here.
2. Trade him. Put together a package you think is worth parting ways with the 2001 first overall pick…the franchise player that the team has been and was supposed to be built around.
3. Do nothing. Much like the Florida Panthers did with Jay Bouwmeester last year, you keep him for the playoff run knowing he’s services now are crucial to succeeding… and then take your chances re-signing him sometime before July 1…something Florida, by the way, was unable to do with J-Bo.
Either way…this is not really the subject matter I wanted to be discussing at this point in time, to be honest. But we are doing so none-the-less…regardless of what Don Waddell told us last May.
And the 5,000-pound reindeer isn’t getting any smaller.
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134 comments Add your comment
R. Stroz
December 16th, 2009
1:50 pm
FIRST, or GOLD
World Be Free
December 16th, 2009
1:54 pm
Stroz, you are agile!
World Be Free
December 16th, 2009
1:57 pm
Option 1 is really the only option. You will not get fair market value for a player not under contract for next season. Option 3 has not worked for FLA, though Leopold has played well. Draft picks are a crap shoot-Kovy is the real thing.
This is th ekinda money we expected to pay Kovy all along. I never expect a hometown discount.
Bob
December 16th, 2009
2:00 pm
“I don’t think we’ll be talking about this at Christmas time”.
Wait, something Don Waddell said didn’t come true? Next you’re gonna tell me there’s no Santa Claus, geez.
The usual suspects can throw all the doubt around that they want to (Russian rumor, Kovy’s new house, don’t worry it’ll get done, blah blah blah), but the plain fact is that this deal should have been done long, long ago, and the mere fact that he has not signed, is a huge red flag.
Bob
December 16th, 2009
2:06 pm
“This is the kinda money we expected to pay Kovy all along. I never expect a hometown discount.”
I don’t know about this much money though. Crosby and Ovechkin are both better players than Kovy and are paid much less than $11.5m per year. The Thrashers can’t pay Kovy $11.5m a year and be competitive, much less win a Cup, unless they go max cap every year, and that isn’t happening with the cap where it is today and attendance/revenue where it is for this club.
World Be Free
December 16th, 2009
2:18 pm
Bob-
Blue chip hockey players don’t grow on trees. You can compare him with anybody you want, but if you cannot replace Kovy, then losing him for little or nothing is not an option. We simply cannot afford to not sign him, unless you can propose what would be suitable compensation for trading him. Tough to give this or any player big money and maintain a Stanley Cup contending team. Pick your poison.
Bob
December 16th, 2009
2:23 pm
WBF, how could you justify paying him that much though? Is he the best player in hockey? Nope. If it was Gretzky, sure, do it.
The right move would have been to set a deadline of the beginning of the season to get the contract done. If they wouldn’t sign, then you trade him, they would have rec’d a lot more than they’ll get for a rental at the deadline. Now the best they can hope for is either caving in to the 10 year $11.5m (which they won’t do, and shouldn’t do) or trade him for the best package you can get (top 6 forward, prospect, and #1 pick is probably the best they could hope for) and then pray you can re-sign him come July 1st for a reasonable price.
I never thought he’d sign here to begin with and it doesn’t look like he wants to . .. when we did Brendan’s contest this past summer, my guess was July 2, 2010, with another club.
DanTheMan
December 16th, 2009
2:24 pm
Unless this long term deal we’re talking about has a non trade clause, then i’d say sign him and if things get too difficult financially you just put him on the market…. The Rangers, Leafs or Habs will always be listeners as they don’t really have problems with money
Alan R.
December 16th, 2009
2:28 pm
Bob, given the Russian media’s track record, you certainly cannot blame anyone for not believing the article you would like to believe is the gospel truth. This is almost akin to pointing to stories in the Weekly World News to prove an existence of aliens.
To me, mum is the word until this is resolved, one way or the other.
Russian
December 16th, 2009
2:29 pm
I will be very happy to keep Kovy for $100 mln for 10 years. Owners will not pay big money every season to keep team alive. I took option 3 – keep him and play him until end of season IF we are going to PO. Everybody knows that closer to March 3 teams will be Buyers and Sellers. If we are still in PO spot before March 3 that means keep Kovy and trade some players to build more successful team to run PO. If we will sellers trade Kovy to another team. I hope it will be worked. Only one thing I do not like much that Kovy did not play his best game lately.
Bob
December 16th, 2009
2:29 pm
Wasn’t this reason #297 we talked about last year of why we needed a new GM (so Waddell wasn’t in charge of screwing up the Kovy contract)?
Baldheaded Thrasher
December 16th, 2009
2:31 pm
Hoping the deal would have been done by now but I don’t think it will work for Kovy in ATL. The attendance has been lousy with the team winning and I can’t see the Spirit spending what it would take to keep Kovy here.
The weeknight attendance is pathetic and I’m sick of seeing the visting sweaters out number the hometown fans. Winning kept the Penguins and Capitals from moving, but it might not work in ATL. The sheep that stayed away will just cause the shepherd to look for another field.
chc4
December 16th, 2009
2:35 pm
Kovy will not be here next season. And I guarantee he’ll take less than a max deal to sign a long term deal in a better market. The Thrashers would have a deal done w/ him by now if it were going to happen at all.
The notion that Ilya leaving will be the beginning of the end to hockey in Atlanta is wrong. No one goes to the games WITH Ilya skating circles around the rest of the league. Quite frankly, I don’t blame him for not wanting to be here. This is an exciting team yet Philips is usually no more than half full.
Smoothie
December 16th, 2009
2:35 pm
Damn it Bill! I love ya man, but I hate being the “de facto” ranallo on your longer blogs. Where the hell is our lovable curmudgeon from Austria anyway? If you’re reading this ranallo, happiest of holidays to you and your family during this festive season.
Back to the 800 pound elephant in the corner of the lockerroom:
The fact that the Kovy deal is not done (or may not get done before the end of the year) is a big problem. The bigger problem is what do you do with him now that we are in a position to challenge for a playoff spot?
It is crucial that we bank mad points NOW in the next ten games (9 of which are against Eastern Conf foes) to get closer to 10 games over .500. If this team goes 6-3-1 over the next 10, that puts our record at 23-14-4 for 50 points thru 41 games or a pace for 100 points. More importantly, it gives us a bit of a cushion going into January.
At that point, the leverage swings to Waddudley I believe. And the reason why might just be Kari Lehtonen (gasp!!). Should Kari manage to get himself ready to play by late Jan or early Feb, the Thrashers will then have more trade leverage at the deadline. Teams like NYR, Mtl and even Tor may be desperate for goalie depth if they are on the playoff bubble. Tantalize them with Lehtonen, after showcasing him before the Olympics, and tell them they can have Kovy too. But they’ll have to give us a few good players in return.
If talks break-down and the Kovy situation becomes desperate, then Lehtonen might just be the key to a blockbuster type deal that would not only get us value in return, but also help us make a serious push into the playoffs during March & April, when we play 14 of our last 22 games at the Bulb.
A team like the Rangers, who have already spent some insane loot in FA, may be willing to trade for Lehtonen since their back-up goalie situation is in shambles AND Kovalchuk because he’s a goal-scoring bad-ass. Even if we can’t get Marian Gaborik in return, we could probably wrest away one of their RFA youngsters like Dubinsky or Callahan, one of whom they may not be able to afford if they become $3-4 M men.
Hey Glen Sather, how about this deal?
Rangers get: Kovy, Lehts, Todd White and Slater
Thrashers get: Dubinsky or Callahan, Gilroy or Boyle and a first round pick in 2010
Bob
December 16th, 2009
2:38 pm
“The attendance has been lousy with the team winning and I can’t see the Spirit spending what it would take to keep Kovy here.”
Good point. And reason #298 why Waddell should have been gone long ago, he killed the fan base of this club with his mismanagement.
hip czech
December 16th, 2009
2:44 pm
I agree with Bob that Kovy is not quite in the class of Crosby and Ovechkin. I love Kovy, great guy, good sense of humor, but a pretty one dimensional player.
Don’t get me wrong, I WANT us to re-sign him, but IMHO he doesn’t deserve to be the top paid player in the game. If that’s what he wants, my estimation of him goes down a bit. Is he one of the top 10 players in the league? No doubt. Is he the best player? No.
I still think Hossa is the better complete player
Personality-wise I’d take Kovy over Hossa any day, but until Kovy learns to play both ways he is just a notch under the Crosbys, Ovechkins, Hossas, of the league.
IF it becomes apparent he isn’t going to sign for anything less than 11.5 mil per then let’s hope like heck Waddell (and Dudley) get the right players back in a trade. We can’t just let him walk.
Bob
December 16th, 2009
2:44 pm
“This is almost akin to pointing to stories in the Weekly World News to prove an existence of aliens.”
Screw WWN. ET has been seen bareback riding a 5000lb reindeer while being chased by a 800lb gorilla in the lower bowl of Phillips arena, we got a situation here, cousin!
World Be Free
December 16th, 2009
2:56 pm
Bob, what you propsed concerning getting a contract before the season is what I advocated for all summer. Dollars or not, we needed a deal done before the season started. The money really doesn’t matter at this point, the distraction to me is the bigger issue. We don’t know what the numbers are. The number you toss up are worst case; Kovy wants to win and he knows that no team will win if he makes up 20-25% of the salary. I can speculate on the money, but we know his value to the Atlanta Thrashers.
I think he’s worth big money, not because of how good he is compared to other players, but what he means to the team. He is the centerpiece of all team advertising. The team is building it’s case around him.
FYI to all – attendance is down in most cities, it’s the worst economy in my lifetime. Plenty of empty seats in Hockeytown last night and most of this season.
Smoothie
December 16th, 2009
2:59 pm
Wait a minute! Elephants weigh way more than 800 lbs! Make it 8 ton elephant parked next to the zamboni!
Indeed, Kovy should not get anymore than $10 M in any type of long-term deal. I could see giving him $10 M / year for 3-4 years, but that’s it.
Until he decides (because he’s certainly physically capable) to be a well-rounded, fully responsible, 2-way player, I’m not sure he’s even worth $9 M / year. At some point, DWad has to draw the line because such a contract will cripple the franchise. We can’t even sell out a Saturday night in a year we’re in the playoff hunt. How the hell can ASG keep drawing on their own capital before they say “screw it” and sell the team at the end of the lease?
R. Stroz
December 16th, 2009
3:04 pm
As I have previously stated, I’m all for re-signing Kovy, however, if Kovy wants to be surrounded by horses instead of mules, Kovy must allow some wiggle room below the maximum contract amount.
If Kovy wants the maximum yearly contract amount, he will doom himself to a mid-level team for the rest of his career. If Kovy wants to win, he needs to come off the maximum yearly contract amount in order to allow room for other skilled players to sign.
Put another way, there aren’t too many players with the character and talent of a Rich Peverley in the NHL. Kovy can’t expect all the other players on the team to accept a Rich Peverley style contract while he eats up a chunk of salary cap money.
So, does Kovy want to win or does he want to become Yashin part two?
What do I think is reasonable and workable? 10 years at 9 million.
DowntownATL
December 16th, 2009
3:13 pm
Buccigross is playing Thrashers-Bruins matchmaker.
Blake Wheeler, Tuuka Rask, 1st Round pick
http://bit.ly/6COpJJ
DanTheMan
December 16th, 2009
3:16 pm
@DowntownATL: I don’t know if it makes much sense. We’re trying to get rid of a goalie and we would get another one in that deal?
Nate
December 16th, 2009
3:23 pm
Rawhide – That contract estimate by the Russian paper is accurate. This is the only inside source I have for anything, but my buddy Nathan gave me that contract length and per season salary way back in September. He’s just an elevator contractor, but he spoke to his boss who’s good friends with the Russian agent. That’s the figure that was relayed to him and then me. I said then and I say now…Pay him the money. But I also told Nathan there’s pretty much no way ownership coughs up that kind of money for a hockey player. Especially for a 1-way forward. We’ll see…
The trade proposal from Buccigross is realistic, but far below fair market value imo.
Gib Traf
December 16th, 2009
3:28 pm
…..but Dan, assuming Moose is not re-signed (due to his age) and the thought that they need to cut ties with Lehtonen (they could still trade him for a decent pick), the Thrashers would not be bad off with a Rask/Pavelec tandem.
Smoothie
December 16th, 2009
3:28 pm
I love Blake Wheeler, but they would have to take Pavs or Lehts off our hands too to make room for Rask. Throw in a young center prospect and that deal with Boston might make sense if talks break down altogether.
DanTheMan
December 16th, 2009
3:31 pm
@Gib Traf: Yes no doubt. But the trend this year has been that we have a goalie surplus and yet people are still throwing goalies in rumored deals. I just find it funny
Bob
December 16th, 2009
3:32 pm
“I think the hockey environment in Boston would raise his physical play, which has been abysmal this season and smells like a guy in the last season of his contract not wanting to get hurt. But I have always liked Kovalchuk and believe he has a large reservoir of passion that would bubble to the surface in a market like Boston.”
Looks like Buccigross has also been watching Kovy’s play and seeing the alien riding the reindeer chasing the gorilla . . .
Matt
December 16th, 2009
3:37 pm
Sorry, but if Kovy does not resign it is the death knell for hockey in Atlanta. Ask a casual fan about the team and just about the only player recognized is Kovy. If you lose your most recognizable player, that sends the message to the casual fan (who is crucial to develop in the hopes of increasing attendance) that the ASG doesn’t give a hoot about hockey and therefore, why should fans invest their money and effort into such a team?
Smoothie
December 16th, 2009
3:38 pm
Bucci makes some valid points, but he is deluding himself if he thinks Kovy’s agent will settle for $7 M / year. $8 M maybe. Since they are so strapped under the cap, perhaps we can pry Krejci from them.
But I think I would be able to live with that deal since it would involve the Toronto first rounder which should be a pretty good pick.
Wheeler and Kane / Pevs & Little / Antro & Max
If you can’t win with that stable of horses, then you’re doing something wrong in my opinion.
Scotty
December 16th, 2009
3:47 pm
Not re-signing Kovalchuk would make about as much sense as not starting Hedberg in the goal tonight in Florida. And I think any rational, logical, right-minded individual would clearly see Moose should start tonight and not Pavelec.
R. Stroz
December 16th, 2009
3:52 pm
Smoothie – Without Kovy on the team, I believe Max will become useless. Those two are a package deal.
Furmanisanidiot
December 16th, 2009
3:53 pm
You really cannot pay him over or more than 8 or Cindy, if he’s holding out for that money he’s doing it knowing the Thrashers won’t pay it and it doesn’t make him look like the bad guy when he’s traded. This team can make the playoff’s without him, may not go far but they can make the playoffs. Then to get the fans(and mainly the season ticket holders) back you FINALLY FIRE WADDELL from the GM position. I hate to see Kovy leave and hope he signs a contract for 10 or under with us, if you pay him more it hurts your chances of buidling a team around him in future.
Bob
December 16th, 2009
3:55 pm
“But I think I would be able to live with that deal since it would involve the Toronto first rounder which should be a pretty good pick”
Don’t fall too much in love with that pick, Toronto is only 2 pts out of playoff with a game in hand. That club has been on fire and marching up the ranks. Look at the East standings, it’s pretty wild. Carolina is the only club that’s not within 2 pts of a playoff spot.
j nes
December 16th, 2009
3:57 pm
R Stroz says, “If Kovy wants the maximum yearly contract amount, he will doom himself to a mid-level team for the rest of his career.”
Kovalchuck knows this and so does his agent. I honestly dont think Kovy wants to spend the next ten years in atlanta, especially with an organization that will not be able to surround him with good players–which is what will happen if they pay him 11.5 a year. His demand for the max over 10 years (if that is true) is simply a way for him to get out of Atlanta without pulling a Hossa. Management will look like the bad guys since they will not pay. I say call his bluff. Pay him the max until he decides he wants to actually win–then restructure his contract.
Putting On The Foil
December 16th, 2009
4:05 pm
Damn!. I was just hoping I would get a coupon for a free turkey this Christmas.
The Joker
December 16th, 2009
4:11 pm
What do you call an unsigned Kovalchuk?
FREEBIRD
Toby
December 16th, 2009
4:15 pm
No more than 9. If not….don’t let it smack ya on your frozen arse on your way out after we trade you.
Bob
December 16th, 2009
4:16 pm
“His demand for the max over 10 years (if that is true) is simply a way for him to get out of Atlanta without pulling a Hossa.”
That’s the way it’s looking. Surely Waddell tried to get the deal done many times, and by just sticking to a 10year $11.5m demand, then all they’re trying to do is get out of town gracefully.
The market price for Kovy isn’t too hard to figure out. $9.5m per year 10 year deal, structured at $9m per year for the 1st 5 years and $10m per year for the last 5 years of the deal. Someone will give him that deal. If Waddell has offered that deal, and it’s been turned down, then it’s time to trade him. If he hasn’t offered that deal, put it on Grossman’s fax machine and tell him offer is good till Jan. 15th, if it isn’t signed by that date, then open up the bidding on Kovy and move him.
I just looked at the Cap hit for us this year and including Kane’s and Bogosian’s bonus money, which both will surely hit, we’re at $53m cap hit. And they signed Antroprov, brought in Kubina, and signed Max. And gave Kovy the C. If that doesn’t make Kovy happy, then he was just blowing smoke up their rear the whole time and he needs to go. At the end of the day, he is a one dimensional player who will not play D which will kill a team in the playoffs. Look at Crosby, Malkin, and Ovechkin in last year’s players, all of those guys busted nut backchecking and selling out on every play. Those are Kovy’s peers, and they are all better players than him, no way Kovy will be paid more than them (although none of them went to a bidding war on the open market). The club will survive without Kovy, but they have to replace him and they won’t trade him in the East. He will be traded out West, LA is probably the club to deal with, who do they have that’s a young goal scoring LW?
Smoothie
December 16th, 2009
4:26 pm
Fool’s gold Bob, Toronto is doing exactly what we did last year in November with our brief surge before tanking. Their defense is miserable and eventually, that 3.5 GA average will do them in. Kessel’s heroics notwithstanding.
Stroz – Max seems like an honorable fella and doubt he would turn down an extension to the only team that wanted him during the summer. I feel as though he still has something to prove and about half of his dramatic goals have come without the help of Kovalchuk, if that is what you are inferring. He’s had pretty good chemistry with Antro and Kane when Kaner is given the chance to play on a top 2 line.
To me, Kubina is actually becoming more valuable at this juncture than Kovy because stopping the other team wins game, not flashy one-timers from the point on the PP.
Yeah, Kovy’s the face of the franchise, and we’d all hate to lose him. But snipers don’t win championships alone. Bossy had Trottier, Potvin and Smith. Kurri had some guy named Gretzky. Jagr and Lemieux; Selanne had Getzlaf and Perry. Kovy has Peverley, Antro and hopefully a stud in Kane if he decides to stay.
Where else can Kovy go and not be held accountable by the fans (for the most part) or the media? The media here in ATL will never challenge Kovy face to face as opposed to Montreal, NY or Toronto where he would get killed for his loafing on defense. He can own more property living in a cheaper market like ATL. Atlanta’s a better town to raise a family, which is growing like weeds in a hot summer. He’ll still get his major “coin” from the ASG and should they keep winning, eventually the franchise will make money.
Hell, if he would just sign a 5-year deal worth $45 M, he would still have options at the back end of that deal if it didn’t work out. He could demand a trade in 2-3 years if Kane, Little, Pevs and Bogo aren’t enough to make this a perennial winner. He might even get his big fat raise to $10 M + if this team wins consistently, starts selling out frequently and the ASG starts making money. Plus, the economy might actually turn around and the Cap could go back up. You never know, but I wouldn’t bet on the future of the KHL.
So in closing, do the honorable thing and either sign the deal Kovy or let us off the hook by mid-January. Don’t leave the ASG twisting in the wind like Hossa did. Give this town a chance to have a great hockey team. Please don’t destroy it with greed or selfishness. That’s all I ask for at this point.
Mooseberg
December 16th, 2009
4:40 pm
(previously Furmanisanidiot)
Amen, Smoothie
R. Stroz
December 16th, 2009
4:41 pm
Someone better tell Grossman his 11.5 million 10 year trial balloon has lead in it.
Greed, especially at Christmas, is not good and is easily perceived as such.
Smoothie
December 16th, 2009
4:53 pm
Mooooooseberg!!! I like it! Johan has been as tough to penetrate as an iceberg this season. Let’s hope it continues down in Sunrise tonight!
R. Stroz
December 16th, 2009
4:57 pm
So, how many of you think Kovy is overplaying his hand with a 11.5 million for 10 year request?
KovyRules
December 16th, 2009
5:02 pm
And I chose my screen name based on his play on the ice, not off the ice. Alas…
While I’d hate to see him go (and have to change aliases), 10m is a very generous maximum. Another option – with 100m, ASG could surely perfect cloning. I’d take 8 Peverlys over 1 Kovy any day…
Bob
December 16th, 2009
5:10 pm
“So, how many of you think Kovy is overplaying his hand with a 11.5 million for 10 year request?”
Yes it is overplaying unless it’s their way of getting him out of town gracefully
Putting On The Foil
December 16th, 2009
5:30 pm
Right on Smoothie. My sentiments, exactly, and I didn’t have to type all that.
R. Stroz
December 16th, 2009
5:36 pm
Smoothie – I nominate your 4:26 post for the Blogging Hall of Fame.
Smoothie
December 16th, 2009
5:37 pm
POTF, you’re very welcome!
LAC
December 16th, 2009
5:44 pm
I agree with BOB… #17 is NOT worth that type money, while he can score like crazy, he floats many nights and is as soft as a marshmellow.
Look at Ovekin, hell the guy flys all over the ice, he hit and hits and hits, Does #17 do that NO !
I feel we should not fall to their contract demands, He should be traded
for a TON, 3-4 GOOD young players, The NYR senerio is NOT a good one,
get at least TWO Number #1 picks as well, Hold Up the other team, Make them PAY.
If we get 4-5 players, we can start to put the puzzel back togather again, however it will show that Atlanta is not a serious contender, and star players will stay away…
The “other” sliver lining is could this cost waddell his job FINALLY ?
Like others have pointed out many times, he has mismanaged this team from year one. What gets me the most is his constant LYING.
waddell is a pathological liar, he does not know how to be honest with we the FANS, maybe these IDIOT or STUPID or DUMB AS HELL owners, will get their heads out of their butts and FIRE the BUM once and for all !
But what I am afraid of is that this MESS is going to kill what the team has accomplished so far and we will come apart at the seams !
jeff
December 16th, 2009
5:45 pm
Hey guys,
I am a bit disappointed in Kovy for asking such a salary. Assuming he really wants to win in this city, one would think that he would accept a lower salary in the 8mil/year (still extremely well paid)so that his team has more money to surround him with a quality cast.
I always thought that if we lose Kovy, we lose that team in ATL. I start to think that we might have to look elsewhere…I would take 2-3 solid players for 10mil instead of only one…
Rightshot
December 16th, 2009
6:50 pm
I think the two big IF’s we need to keep in mind is if the report is true from the russian paper and IF kovy is seriously thinking of leaving atlanta.
If both are true, kovy’s gone and a short time later, unless something drastic happens, so does atlanta hockey
If the first is true, but not the second, he will probably end up staying here, at least for the short term.
If the second is true but the first is not, we may have to really pony up the bucks (more than the rumored $90 mil for 10 years) to get him to stay.
There is the possibility he is still evaluating the playoff chances here and this is a delaying tactic.
Hopefully, there will be a big announcement when the Canadians are in town on the 21st that Kovy has signed a new deal here.
BTW, Don still has 9 days till Christmas so technically he has that much time before his statement about not talking about this at Christmas becomes, let us say, untrue
Mr. Heat Miser
December 16th, 2009
6:55 pm
Don Waddell could talk for half an hour and not say a fecking thing.
Brendan
December 16th, 2009
7:03 pm
The maximum cap hit salary permitted is $11.36 million. And that’s only if the cap doesn’t DECREASE next season. Now, Kovy may be asking for a FRONT LOADED $11.5 million deal that pays him very handsomely in the beginning, and very modestly towards the end. Especially if it’s some 10-12 year deal.
I was thinking that a $10.1 million cap hit for 10 years sounds good. That’d make him 36 years old, while still hitting our cap pretty hard at that $10.1 million rate. By then, the team could opt not to re-sign him or trade him, if he’d waive his NTC, which he’d probably ask for. In Kovy’s shoes, I’d take the deal at $10.1, provided that there’s an “out clause” as it relates to cap hit payroll for Opening Night. I’d put in the contract that Atlanta must be within $3.0 million of WHATEVER the cap is … in any given year … or it INVALIDATES the contract. What MORE could Kovy ask for? He’d be getting $10+ million as a cap hit, FRONT LOADED at $11.5 million in actual cash for the first few years, PLUS he’d hold the ownership HOSTAGE to assemble a competitive team. If that’s the offer … and the offer is rejected … then Kovy gets traded. In that instance, Waddell and the ownership did absolutely everything they could … and still Kovy said, “nyet.” Well, if “nyet” is the answer, pack your bags, Ilya. It’s pretty CLEAR that you don’t want to stay. Not while rejecting a handsome offer, plus incentives of team payroll. It’d be one thing … if Waddell/ownership were “nickel and diming” him. If they were floating $7 to $7.5 million, with 5-years maximum term, I’d actually be siding with Kovalchuk on that. That’s insulting. And a player of his caliber cannot and should not be insulted. Especially as the Captain and FACE of the franchise. But $10.1 million, cap hit, for 10-years, and team payroll guarantees … ought to do it. If that’s not enough, then he just DOESN’T WANT to play here anymore.
And A-NOTHER thing … if I find out that, during the offseason, Kovalchuk said words to the effect of, “Do what you want, I’m not re-signing here. Trade me now. Trade me at the deadline. Or hang on to me all year. It’s all fine and good with me.” Then ownership dropped the ball. I understand WHY they chose to keep him, right to the bitter end. Ticket sales. Trading Kovy in the offseason might have been enough to cancel Season Tickets for some folks.
Of course, I don’t think we’ll ever TRULY know the truth of what is said between Ilya, Grossman, Waddell, and the ownership. It’s a huge poker game. But sooner or later, someone has to CALL, and turn over their hand. If he’s got four ACES, I want to see them.
I do understand why Ilya might want to leave. I talked about this back in 2007. It’s not worth re-hashing again. My panic date is on or about January 24, 2010. I know that hockey will survive in Atlanta without Kovalchuk. I know that wins put fannies in seats. This never changes. I also know this. You cannot replace a Kovalchuk. Or a Hossa. Or a Savard, necessarily. These salvage moves … rarely pan out. You get a bevy of essentially ‘throw away’ draft picks and longshot prospects. It’s never the same as actually having the player. Someone has to answer for that. Someone does. But it’s still possible to field a winning hockey product in Atlanta, sans Kovalchuk. The right GM can do it. It takes a “concept.” It takes, “an identity.” It takes getting the ownership and the players to “buy into it.” I’d be sad to see Ilya leave. Truly, I would. But that man … has WAITED long enough to get to decide where he WANTS to play in the NHL. And for nine years, and eight seasons, he’s put in HIS TIME. He has four playoff games to show for it. Four. Someone should answer for that. Someone should.
All that talk goes away … with the affixing of #17’s signature on a contract. That’s what ends the talk and speculation.
World Be Free
December 16th, 2009
8:20 pm
Nice post Smoothie, very nice. But we’ve come to expect it.
World Be Free
December 16th, 2009
8:23 pm
We really don’t know what Kovy is asking for in years or dollars. So I am not losing it anymore trying to predict his next move.
Typical Thrashers 1st period-zombie hockey. These are the points we need and there’s nobody in the stands!
Chris
December 16th, 2009
9:51 pm
WBF–Game’s in Florida. And now we’ve come back to tie it 3-3 in the 3rd.
Midfield
December 16th, 2009
10:04 pm
There you have it: Bogosian-Hainsey earned it as the worst defensive pair of the week. John, it’s time to put the foot down and sit one of them.
Chris Tamer
December 16th, 2009
10:14 pm
Zach Bogosian’s recent play in his own zone reminds me of another guy that wore #4 for the Thrashers.
Hainsey is doing his best to clean up the mess.
Midfield
December 16th, 2009
10:19 pm
Hainsey is not better by much. His inability to win one-on-one scrums is getting old, The guy is what – like over 6 feet tall? Give me a break. Drop the freaking mirror and go to the freaking gym once in a while, Ron.
Brendan
December 16th, 2009
10:22 pm
Well, here’s your boxscore. http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2009020499. The Panthers get some revenge. We’ve been stealing points LATE off of Florida. This time, they gave us the “gut punch,” on a 4-point swing. Good comeback, though, by the Russians. Kovy, Antropov, and Kozlov tallied for Atlanta.
Ron Hainsey was a -3. Bryan Little, who was responsible for the defensive lapse on the 4th Flrodia goal, was a -2. Little did have an assist in this game, however. Max got back on the stat sheet. But he’s not at a point-a-game anymore. I think he’s 4-5 points under a point-a-game now.
Look how much Kubina is running away with the plus-minus leadership of this team: http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20102ATLAASAll&sort=plusMinus&viewName=summary. Enstrom was a +2 in the loss, tonight. Sucks to lose to a division rival, after such a great comeback. But the bigger issue is how and why this team was, once again, so flat through the first 35 minutes of this game. Why does this happen with such frequency?? JA must motivate these guys better to start rocking right from puck drop.
Carolina beat Dallas, 5-3. Phoenix went into Toronto and doubled ‘em up, 6-3. Losses like that really bother the Toronto media. They feel Phoenix doesn’t deserve a team. And yet, they roll into town from the desert and SPANK the Leafs in their own barn. With this Panther win, the Cats are within two points of Atlanta.
Chris Tamer
December 16th, 2009
10:24 pm
Did you not see Hainsey catch a Panther from behind, and then knock him off the puck to break up a scoring chance.
When is the last time you remember Bogosian putting in that kind of effort in our own end. Bogo is the guy that needs to look in the mirror. I think they gave him that A a little too early. He is not playing like a leader out there.
Smoothie
December 16th, 2009
10:26 pm
Thanks everyone for the kind words about my post / posting. Y’all are too kind.
What is the deal with Hainsey? One night he’s great at MSG, the next night he’s on the ice for what, 3 of the 4 Florida goals and the game-losing goal. Why was he not taking the body while Weiss has his back turned rather than swipe aimlessly at the weak back-hand attempt? But who knows, perhaps Bogosian is going through a rough patch right now and Hainsey is looking like the culprit when he’s just trying to cover for the young’un. I’ll have to watch the game-film and see for myself as I didn’t see it live…Christmas shopping.
Chris Tamer
December 16th, 2009
10:34 pm
It was a Bogosian turnover which led to our 2nd goal as well, leaving Hainsey back deep on a 2 on 1.
stendec
December 16th, 2009
10:40 pm
Moose was supremely spectacular in stealing two points against Ranjeks! Moose was absolutely absymal in personally giving up at least one point to Pantherettes. I would have sworn that was Kari Lehnonen allowing a game-losing goal in the final two minutes. Not this night. Completely nauseating. Thrashers, who could not accumulate more than three goals if other team skated off ice at start of third period, uncharacteristically tried to bail Moose out. No-score offense of Coach John Petrino actually deadlocked score at 3-3 in third period after three marshmallow tallies put Yardbirds in 3-0 hole. Moose would have none of it. Would have done Sori Letemin proud. Damn it. Just damn it! ++STENDEC++
Thrashy Thrashy
December 16th, 2009
10:55 pm
Let’s be honest. Bogosian is 19. As much as I want to see everyone play to stendec-ian levels, I can’t expect a 19-year-old kid to do so. He’s going to have bumps in the road while he learns the NHL game.
Of course, stendec will rip the head coach with the NHL’s seventh-highest scoring offense without batting an eyelash (and call him John “Petrino”, an extremely confusing reference to a dictatorial head coach who literally quit on his team before his first season in the NFL ended), so what is this staggering buffoon’s opinion good for?
Thrashy Thrashy
December 16th, 2009
10:57 pm
Nice bold work by me. In fact, I’m not sure how it ended up like that. Interesting.
LAC
December 16th, 2009
11:11 pm
Bogosian pretty much cost us tonight, Hate those Florida announcers, They are TERRIBLE and they canned Potvin for this linsey clown…
Had a good chance for a point, but we BLEW it !
Watch us get creamed by Dallas… Who lost to Carolina… Gee Whiz
Mooseberg
December 16th, 2009
11:40 pm
SO Stendec is there a point in time when you actually support a player for the thrashers for more then a game or two?
ben
December 17th, 2009
12:56 am
bad game. maybe we should try pavs out
12345
December 17th, 2009
2:19 am
Two thing that are absolutes in life in Atlanta, Sun comes up in the East and Don Waddell is the biggest liar in Atlanta History !
Sara
December 17th, 2009
6:44 am
And this is why some of you are acting like total fools, as usual. Bashing Kovy when you don’t even know the real story – only what someone in Russia felt like making up that day.
From Dave Pagnotta at The Fourth Period:
” On Wednesday, a report from Russian daily sports newspaper Sovetsky Sport claimed negotiations had stalled after Kovalchuk’s party demanded a 10-year contract worth $11.5 million per season. The paper then went on to suggest that Waddell is now considering his trade options, with Vancouver and Los Angeles supposedly knocking on his door.
After receiving a boat load of emails about this, I decided to do some digging. One source denied the report and told me the Thrashers haven’t even begun to consider trading Kovalchuk, while another very well-placed source simply scoffed at the entire article.”
Which followed an earlier paragraph stating: “Having spoken to Kovalchuk and his agent, Jay Grossman, several times over the last few seasons, it’s become very clear to me that Kovalchuk genuinely wants to stay in Atlanta. I’ll be the first to admit how surprise I was to hear that, but after continuously being told the same thing, it finally sunk in.”
Kovy has spent years giving everything he could for this team. He’s shown so much respect for a team and fan base that large portions of the hockey world don’t even think should exist. He’s stepped up as Captain in an amazing way. This guy has been taking the entire team out to dinners on his own dime to help the team bond – you think 29 other Captains are out there doing that? He pushes himself back into the line-up from injury because he can’t stand to not be out there helping his teammates win.
And yet some people want to throw him under the bus based on his reaction to one goal and a report that should have been obviously questionable to anyone who looked at it. Pathetic.
Here’s the link to the rest of Pagnotta’s story: http://www.thefourthperiod.com/columnists/pagnotta091217.html
Smoothie
December 17th, 2009
8:30 am
Sara, if u think I’m basing my comments solely on some stupid hearsay article from a Russian tabloiad, u are sorely mistaken, and a bit insulting. But perhaps u are directing this post at Bob. And u are deluding yourself if u don’t think we are approaching do or die time with respect to this contract. If Kovy is the loyal, dedicated captain u say he is, then he wouldve signed by now for less than $10 M.
rightshot
December 17th, 2009
8:43 am
In regards to my 6:50 post of yesterday, after reading what Sara had to say and the story on her link, I realized I had forgotten another possibility. If both are untrue, Kovy will most likely stay here. He may, as I stated above, still be evaluating the team and situation. At this point, I don’t think we will hear about his resiging until after the Olyimpic break.
A2B
December 17th, 2009
9:08 am
I think you guys don’t realize how much goes into a pro contract. I have two friends that play in professional sports, and even a moderately complicated contract (Kovy’s is going to be complicated as heck) can take well month to produce, get approved by the governing office of the league, and then signed by both parties. Keep in mind, that this is probably going on longer than though because the cap for next year was supposed to be released at the GM meetings and it wasn’t since the economy is in flux… which might alter where negotations are heading. If the cap is going to fall, Ilya might be saying I need lower money to make sure they have some money to spend on other players.
Beyond this, specific wants and clauses that are added into the contract means the NHL has to reaprove every contract offer the Thrashers give Kovy. So if we start thinking about the time frame that negotations started (wispers of when Kovy told grossman to start getting it done was around the 15 game mark) around Nov 15 (close to 15-18 games in) then its about time the negotiations should be at the point where a legit signing could occur.
Now I could be wrong about how the NHL approves contracts, but its a tricky process in the other sports. If its mid January and still nothing has moved, then its time for concern because that means that they have gone through several numbers, versions of the contracts and one side is not satisfied with the offers at all.
Bob
December 17th, 2009
9:23 am
Sara, wake up and smell the problem. The Fourth Period? lol.
It’s obvious that there’s a problem with Kovy’s contract, I don’t need a Russian newspaper, The Fourth Period (snicker) or Sara to tell me what I see with my own eyes. Ovechkins contract got done early. Crosby’s contract got done early. Malkins contract got done early.
Kovy’s isn’t done and should have been done long ago, that’s all any rational person needs to know to see that there is a problem. If Kovy was so dedicated to be here, he would’ve signed before the season started, or early this season, or yesterday . . .
Toby
December 17th, 2009
9:36 am
Soviet news vs. The Fourth Period
That’s like Eklund vs. NHL Sources Say
Both are crap.
Spud Webb
December 17th, 2009
9:39 am
ahahahaha, Tamer, I love it. I miss that guy.
Some interesting posts for sure. Well we do it again, come out flat and make a giant comeback, but can’t close the deal this time. Disappointing, needed those 2 points.
As for Kovy, those who say “if we don’t sign him Hockey will be gone in Atlanta”. I have to disagree, if we have Kovy now and not drawing at the gates, what makes you think signing him will keep the team here?? Makes zero sense. He doesn’t draw here, winning does. So if you REALLY look at it, if Kovy is traded, we have a better chance of keeping the team here. Less money paid out, that keeps money in our greedy owners pockets and thus allows them to operate.
Also, I see the spin coming already from DW and ownership…”he didnt wanna sign here”, “we tried, brought people in that he wanted”. And that will piss me off, because if dandy don (and ownership)had run this thing correctly over that past 10 years we wouldn’t be anywhere NEAR this situation and probably have something to show for 10 years of crap. Anyhows, back to work!!!!!!!!!
five_hole
December 17th, 2009
9:40 am
The way they played in the 1st & most of the 2nd, they deserved to lose this game (except for the usual suspects; Moose, Kane, Kubina, etc).
Why are we paying Hainsey more than Kubina? Contracts should be structured such that when you blow an assignment (which leads directly to a goal) you have to forfeit some salary back to the team.
All I can do is look forward to tonight’s game.
Smoothie
December 17th, 2009
9:50 am
A2B, you make good points, but c’mon, it takes less than a day on July 1 for some of these guys to get contracts and approval from the league. Now I’m sure a lot of the legalese is in place prior to July 1, but how complicated can these be if guys are getting new deals in the first 3-4 days of free-agency in July?
All Waddell needs to do is point to OV’s contract and say, “we’ll give you slightly less than your boy for 5-10 years…you name the term.” How hard is that? He’s not better than Ovechkin and not even Jay Grossman can win that argument. And don’t give me that bull about Atlanta having to overpay because we are a weak hockey market. The Verizon Center was a veritable tomb for a 5 years or so after they dismantled their good team from the late 90’s. Actually, if you think about it, there are a lot of parallels between the two situations. However, OV has better overall numbers and 3 more playoff wins before his extension in 2008.
$90 million for 10 seasons…take the deal Kovy or tell us you’re going to free-agency. Pee or get off the pot.
Brian G.
December 17th, 2009
9:51 am
Hey Rawhide, on your Hockeybuzz post you spelled Brian Little “Brain”. That is one of my HUGEST pet peeves when people do that (I get it all the time!). Just wanted to give you a heads up! I don’t have a hockeybuzz account, so I figured I would give you a heads up on here! Good read as usual!
Rawhide
December 17th, 2009
10:01 am
Brian G. – Thanks for the let-know…and yeah, I can see why that would get under your skin.
GaVaHokie
December 17th, 2009
10:06 am
If I’m Kovy, I’m waiting until January 1st to see if Atlanta makes extensions with Afinogenov and Kubina… I wouldn’t want the rug pulled out from under me… I’d want to know the organization is going to stay serious.
They could sign Kovalchuk and then allow Max, Kubina and Armstrong to walk next summer.
J.B.
December 17th, 2009
10:07 am
wow, i’m surprised about y’alls commentary on The Fourth Period. I’ve always found that site to be pretty fair and balanced as far as reporting goes and their accuracy is definitey better than Eklunds.
Smoothie
December 17th, 2009
10:07 am
Spud, indeed those two points were critical. Especially vs a divisional opponent who is lurking just outside (now just inside) the playoff line.
Folks, December has been fairly wretched and whatever is ailing this team (contract doubt especially if it means a clearer focus for Kovy) needs to be fixed fast. Check out these numbers for comparison’s sake:
Thru November 30th:
14 wins & 31 points
7 games over .500 (well, sort of)
Pts earned % of 64.6
Goals For Avg of 3.46
Goals Allowed of 2.75
Shooting % of 12.03
PP Conversion ~25%
21 PPG in 24 games
Now, contrast with Dec thus far:
3 wins out of 8, all in OT / SO
Now 5 games over .500
Pts earned % of 37.50
Goals For Avg of 2.00
Goals Allowed of 3.25
Shooting % of 7.21
PP Conversion of 12.9%
4 PPG in 8 games
J.B.
December 17th, 2009
10:12 am
hokie – how can they deal with anyone else before they know how much they’ll be spending on kovy?
(not trying to be coy; i just don’t understand all the intricacies of the cap and rules and crap like that…)
Alan R.
December 17th, 2009
10:16 am
J.B., why are you surprised at their commentary about The Fourth Period? So long as the Russian media puts forth rumors that coincide with the view some people here have, media on this side of the globe is to be questioned with extra scrutiny.
A2B
December 17th, 2009
10:21 am
Smoothie- Point taken, most of the time if you look at those contracts, they aren’t super complicated… They have term, amount, and a no trade clause (if the player asks… usually the agent says it in advance), thats it. A new contract is way different than an extension legally. I have no idea why, but it is (I think its so the two parties can’t strike an unfair deal like pay Kovy $1 mil on the books and $10 off fron another investor somewhere). Also, the teams have done their due dilligence a month before to get the contract base cleared by the league office so if a change to term or amount is done it still fits within what was approved already (thats how you see teams get deals done 15 minutes into the window).
Smoothie
December 17th, 2009
10:26 am
Sorry, PP% was 23.9% or 21 out of 88 after 11/30. Had to do some checking, but I know were Top 5 in the league at that point. We’ve slipped to ninth and we now give up the 2nd most shots against per game at 34.3.
Spud Webb
December 17th, 2009
10:26 am
JB is correct, no chance of signing Kubina without the kovy situation resolved. A lot hinges on this signing. If Kovy does sing, i’ll be SHOCKED if we have Kubina back next year. He will get 5 mill a season from someone, we would have something like 3.5 a year to offer if the chips fall as they should. No way he takes less money than Hainsey.
mr. mike
December 17th, 2009
10:28 am
Downtown ATL; I read/reviewed Bucci’s article also. Unfortunately; I 100% believe Kovalchuk is NOT re-signing here; all that “he is fond of Waddell”; “he wants to win here” nonsense aside. He’s a pro jock; he’ll go to where money/endorsement/fame are most likely & that’s not here in Blueland.
Having said that; I’d say “No” to trading Kovy for Rask.Wheeler & a #1. Rask is a back-up goaltender now; we have 3 of those already(Moose, Pavs & Lehtonen, until proven otherwise).
A potential deal for Wheeler/Sturm/#1 is much more palatable. I also don’t see any long term benefit to dealing with the Ranjerks if we’re only getting Callahan or Dubinsky or both in return; those guys aren’t close to Kovy’s level. Bottom line: we can’t trust Waddell not to just outright lose Kovy as a UFA; which will happen if we don’t make a trade soon.
J.B.
December 17th, 2009
10:28 am
Alan – I wasn’t reading that much into it regarding this situation specifically to tell you the truth. Generally, I was just surprised folks think TFP isn’t a credible source for information because I’ve always thought it was a decent site for accurate information, especially when compared to hockeybuzz.
Alan R.
December 17th, 2009
10:50 am
Unfortunately, comparing anything to its lowest common denominator will make that one thing appear better. Even the Russian media is more accurate when taking that comparison…
Alan R.
December 17th, 2009
11:07 am
In completely unrelated news, on Monday in Sweden, a ref saved the life of a Swedish hockey player after he fell lifeless to the ice. (with video)
Smoothie
December 17th, 2009
11:17 am
We gotta get the shots down (last night notwithstanding) or else we will give up another 1,715 shots the rest of the way at this rate.
Over the course of a season and as our Save % normalizes back closer to 91% (9% allowed), we will end up giving up close to 155 more goals or an average of 3.10 goals / game over the last 50 games.
Unless we breathe some life into the PP and correct some poor defensive commitment from certain forwards, we will be hard-pressed to keep scoring at a pace of 3.2-3.4 goals / game and make the playoffs.
NASCAR Dave
December 17th, 2009
11:38 am
“What is the deal with Hainsey? One night he’s great at MSG, the next night he’s on the ice for what, 3 of the 4 Florida goals and the game-losing goal. Why was he not taking the body while Weiss has his back turned rather than swipe aimlessly at the weak back-hand attempt?”
Because he’s SOFT… Time to trade him, I’ve had enough of him… Remember how everyone was talking about him being a Puck Moving OFFENSIVE Defenseman??? I don’t see it… Another TERRIBLE pickup by WADDELL…
NASCAR Dave
December 17th, 2009
11:41 am
RE: KOVY
No matter what happens, I think WE AS FANS will win out…
If KOVY doesn’t get Re-signed, WADDELL gets FIRED…
If you want to keep him, you’ll HAVE to pay him what he wants… This type of player doesn’t come around that often… You have to do whatever it takes to keep him here, NO MATTER THE PRICE…
I think WADDELL knows this… And I think he knows he WILL HAVE TO PAY WHAT KOVY WANTS, or he LOSES HIS JOB… It’s really that simple…
If we Trade KOVY, what about trading him to LA Kings for KOPITAR/DOUGHT/1st ROUNDER???
NASCAR Dave
December 17th, 2009
11:46 am
“If I’m Kovy, I’m waiting until January 1st to see if Atlanta makes extensions with Afinogenov and Kubina… I wouldn’t want the rug pulled out from under me… I’d want to know the organization is going to stay serious”
GAVA – No one else is gonna re-sign here until the KOVY thing is taken care of… If he goes, they have no reason to stay around… They’ll want to go to a proven winner like KOVY does…
Spud Webb
December 17th, 2009
12:16 pm
Nascar, why would LA make that trade? Have you seen their record this year?
World Be Free
December 17th, 2009
12:26 pm
The Fourth Period has a tendency to report “news” that we already know. I think TFP and Eklund like to play with everyone’s heads. I am putting aside the Kovy talk for now.
On another subject, it is amazing to see how bad Philly is this year. I watched them against Pittsburgh the other night; the Pens just toyed with them.
It’s always the coach that gets it when the team stinks, but this is clearly a team with a horrible makeup. Paul Holmgren needs to get sacked for overspending and bringing in the wrong players. Alotta fighters and no finishers. Any coach that wants to communicate to this bunch must be fluent in concrete.
At about $7M/year, it is clear that Danny Briere is no longer the finisher or playmaker he once was. The Flyers give us 4 number ones for Pronger, who seems to be a shadow of his former self.
I don’t want to rain on Philly’s parade; we know they might be able to turn it around. But this is a team that is lacking in leadership. Their identity is toughness, at a time when the league gets softer every season especially with these new refs coming on board.
Anyone agree or am I wrong here?
World Be Free
December 17th, 2009
12:31 pm
I can’t resist on the Kovy thing-
Which does he want, the $10M or the Stanley Cup?
Any team investing $10M in one player, any player is not going to have the $$$ to build a Cup-winning team.
So do we believe with the Vodka-drinkers are saying about $10M/year for 10 years or is it closer to a competitive, longer term, cap-friendly salary that will allow the Thrashers or any other team the ability to build a cup contender? That’s as simple as I can put it.
Anyone going tonight?
Rawhide
December 17th, 2009
12:43 pm
If KOVY doesn’t get Re-signed, WADDELL gets FIRED…
NASCAR Dave – That would be the logical thought…but remember, we are talking about the Atlanta Spirit, LLC here.
Two years ago…when Bob Hartley was fired…I heard people make much the same prediction. The thought process was that if the Thrashers failed to win that season, it would prove it wasn’t BH’s fault and it would be seen as DW’s failure since he went behind the bench to coach the team he put together. Thus, DW would lose his job too.
After a fairly decent few weeks afterwards, the Thrashers went flat. Marian Hossa forced DW to trade him and the team fell apart after that.
Last I checked…Don Waddell is still the GM of the Thrashers.
Personally, if we are not able to re-sign Kovy and he is traded in two months or walks this summer, I think the press conference should be a two-parter.
Part 1: We are saddened to announce Ilya Kovalchuk is no longer a member of the Atlanta Thrashers. We thank him for his many years of fine play in Atlanta and wish him nothing but the best.
Part 2: Don Waddell has been relieved of his duties as GM and Executive VP of the Thrashers and Rick Dudley will take over the duties of full time general manager.
But like I said…there is no guarantee anything like that will happen as long as the Atlanta Spirit LLC runs the show.
Toby
December 17th, 2009
1:00 pm
Dub could save his hind-side by trading Kovy for a nice return and winning a playoff series…
Ray
December 17th, 2009
1:01 pm
I’m going. My seats are in 111. I don’t post much, but like to read the blog.
Rawhide
December 17th, 2009
1:06 pm
Ray – Well, it’s nice to know you’re out there.
World Be Free
December 17th, 2009
1:22 pm
Remember folks, we have won without Kovy, last year and this year. I prefer he stays, but if this cannot be worked out, then he has to go and we need to get soemthing for him.
Spud Webb
December 17th, 2009
1:40 pm
WBF, Philly is a mess & I love it. Number one issue was letting nittamyki (spelling) go and or thinking ray “boom boom” emory was going to be the answer, dummies. Some questionable personal moves in the last few years, Briere (never been a leader), trading Lupal and Umberger, not a good idea!!
Pronger is not what he used to be, but didn’t we all know that before philly gave up a ton for him??????????
I will say I enjoy that idiot Carcillo going out there and acting like a fool, entertaining to say the least.
Older brother up in Philly, I call him everyday to tell him they s&ck!!! He was sick the day they signed emory!!! Ahhahahahahahahhahahaha & he’s been sick pretty much everyday of this hockey season!!!!
Bob
December 17th, 2009
1:46 pm
“After a fairly decent few weeks afterwards, the Thrashers went flat. Marian Hossa forced DW to trade him and the team fell apart after that.
Last I checked…Don Waddell is still the GM of the Thrashers.”
Yes, but, if I recall correctly (and Brendan is the resident keeper of this knowledge), didn’t the Spirit Squad give Waddell an extension after he had a great month after taking over the reins? And isn’t the supposed story that this extension was through the end of this year? So mabye that’s why they’ve kept him (too cheap to fire another guy they had to continue paying, like they had to pay Hartley for a couple years after firing him). So now mabye the jig is finally up for old Don? We’ll see.
“we have won without Kovy, last year and this year. I prefer he stays, but if this cannot be worked out, then he has to go and we need to get soemthing for him.”
Look at what Crosby and Malkin did in last year’s playoffs and they brought home rings. Both guys are much more complete players than Kovy, and are a $8.7m per year cap hit. Kovy needs to sign for $9.5m cap hit, max, or sayonara.
TableHockey
December 17th, 2009
1:47 pm
Agree with WBF – got to get something for Kovy. I almost wonder if the “We won’t be talking about this by Christmas” from DW has a double meaning – either he’s signed or traded by Christmas??
I was suppose to go tonight but my ticket connection fell through. Here at the holidays I honestly don’t have the extra $$ to pay for a ticket. Hopefully it will be a good game for the Thrashers. We need something to break through the malaise that has been prevalent lately.
R. Stroz
December 17th, 2009
1:57 pm
WBF – I’ll be in Section 222 otherwise known as Cowbell Corner. Where are sitting this evening?
R. Stroz
December 17th, 2009
1:58 pm
TableHockey – I have an extra ticket if you still want to go tonight.
J.B.
December 17th, 2009
2:03 pm
Bob’s post reminded me of this. I saw a tweet earlier from @dchesnokov that mentioned Malkin said on Russian TV his perfect linemates would be Kovalchuk & Kovalev. Thought that was pretty cool of him to say…
TableHockey
December 17th, 2009
2:28 pm
R. Stroz – NUTZ!! Thanks for the offer – once I got word that my ticket fell through I committed to wrap presents with my better half. Needless to say I’d much rather be at the game
.
Thanks again for the offer though!
World Be Free
December 17th, 2009
2:41 pm
Stroz-section 222 is a classic. It’s the “Stroz Family Section”, your own little piece of Thrasher heaven. Hope to see you tonight.
Spud-I never liked the Flyers, but they have never been boring. The briere signing was a mess. He fit perfectly in Buffalo, but has a $52M elelphant on his little back. His body is starting to show the milage, just like my favorite Sabre, Pat LaFontaine.
The Flyers are the American version of the Maple Leafs-always alotta pressure to win now!
Let’s hoep it doesn’t come to that, but they cannot let Kovy walk for nothing.
LAC
December 17th, 2009
2:48 pm
I, for one, am getting tired of #17’s little smirks when asked about the contract. Either tell us what your intentions are one way or the other.
Like Nascardave said, if he does leave, and I kinda hope so now, what with this coasting and LAZY play lately, it would likely get worthless, oh, I really mean LIAR don waddell FIRED finally. If there is anyone with the Thrashers who needs to get FIRED it is him, The Man Responsible for Killing NHL hockey in Atlanta.
Hey “don” you lying idiot, we are ALL talking about the contract now and it’s almost Christmas, PROOF yet Again YOU LIE don waddell.
World Be Free
December 17th, 2009
3:30 pm
LAC-I knew it would come to this.
Nikita
December 17th, 2009
3:32 pm
*Until he decides (because he’s certainly physically capable) to be a well-rounded, fully responsible, 2-way player, I’m not sure he’s even worth $9 M / year. At some point, DWad has to draw the line because such a contract will cripple the franchise.*
clap clap clap clap.
My two cents on Kovy, which have been pretty much the same for three years here:
I’m ambivalent. Yes, he’s the face of the franchise and a very high draft pick. But we can’t afford to sign anyone for league max for a decade. Further, for that amount even for a shorter term he’d have to be a better player. And by “better” I mean more responsible and more committed to the overall well-being of the team. We need him, but we can’t afford to make a deal with him to the detriment of the rest of the team.
Last night’s game was a bummer. Very flat with a few exceptions — Thorburn looked pretty lively and Afinogenov was on. Also, though still not scoring, Todd White saved some bacon on several occasions. Hopefully he catches on fire soon. Peverly = good as usual. Moose looked a little off, also. Not terrible, but not totally on. Also, IMO, it was stupid of Anderson to pull the goalie — we would’ve gotten a point if they’d just played at ES for one frickin’ minute into overtime.
Smoothie
December 17th, 2009
3:33 pm
WBF – you should see the polling results for best American-born player in history on the Thrashers website. We must be getting overrun by Dallas homers as Modano is off the charts! Hardly, LaFontaine was the best ever fo’ sho’ and Chelios a close second. I might put Modano in my top 5 with Tkachuk and Housley, but no way was Modano better than P-$.
Smoothie
December 17th, 2009
3:36 pm
Nikita, I agree with every thing you just wrote, but we had to pull the goalie for we were down a goal with 1:20 left. We didn’t pull Moose til just under a minute was left.
Alan R.
December 17th, 2009
3:38 pm
Cheli is clearly the best American born player. Don’t look at the stat sheet when making your selections, because Cheli isn’t a forward
TableHockey
December 17th, 2009
3:44 pm
I realize the Moose was riding a streak but it seems that he struggles any time he’s played in back to back games without at least one day of rest. Wish JA had played Pavs last night and Moose tonight.
Spud Webb
December 17th, 2009
3:57 pm
Cant argue with Cheli or Patty, loved them both.
World Be Free
December 17th, 2009
4:18 pm
Smoothie-loved Patty because he was talented and fearless.
Every player should have Pat LaFontaine’s heart.
Throw a young Jeremy Roenick in there too, Kevin Stevens, Tom Barrasso.
One of my favorites, Tim Kerr.
TableHockey
December 17th, 2009
4:27 pm
Ouch – Forbes ranked Atlanta Thrasher fans 29th in the league: http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/17/nhl-best-and-worst-fans-business-sports-nhl-fans_slide_13.html – only Florida ranked below us.
ThrasherTim
December 17th, 2009
4:36 pm
I will be there tonight trying to stop the Thursday night jinx. Definitely concerned about this team right now. We have let a solid start really kind of crumble. Sure, we are solidly ‘over’ the playoff line with games in hand, but that’s only because the rest of the East is struggling also right now. If 1-2 of those teams get hot and we struggle through this next road trip, we will have to put it together fast — and quite possibly during the Kovy ‘will he/won’t he” fiasco at full boil. We alll know how that can turn out. I think folks forget that after we canned Hartley, the team actually rallied to get tied for the division lead by Feb….only to free-fall after that during the Hossa saga.
Back to the game tonight. I am hopeful that Kovvy will rev the team up like he did last night starting at the end of the 2nd period. Where has that effort been the last few weeks? It was great to see and seemed to ignite the team. You can bet when Kovvy sloughs off, it rubs off on other players.
Little and Kane have been working hard and hopefully, it translates into points soon. Speaking of points, Peverly has really slowed down in that department lately. What’s up there?
I know this sounds terrible but when Todd White got hit with the puck last night, did anyone kind of hope it might keep him out of the line-up for a few…and maybe see if Slater and his energy can translate to more goals?
A W is desparately needed tonight!
Nikita
December 17th, 2009
4:43 pm
blushes
Er, um, guess I shouldn’t have dozed off with five minutes to go, should I? It’s just not the same watching Thrashers hockey from the frozen north.
LAC
December 17th, 2009
5:46 pm
WBF, You are 110% correct. For awhile I thought… No it will not, but when #17 is questioned, he always brushes it aside with a little smirk.
He knows he will get his money, but we all remember those QUOTED words of the GM of this team.
This is now a MAJOR distraction, the entire league is talking about,
not just Atlanta fans… WBF, looks like it will get worse before it is all said and done.
MB
December 17th, 2009
6:09 pm
Hey, I have two extra tix for tonight’s game for the magic price of free…anyone?
Hockey Biltong
December 17th, 2009
6:32 pm
I am leaving now, to see Le Trash win!!! Sec 119. See you all there….
Brendan
December 17th, 2009
6:54 pm
Bob, you are indeed correct. The Spirit renewed Waddell on a 2-year minimum deal after the team went 11-4-1 under his stewardship behind the bench. I think the AS, LLC’s thinking was, “The problem was clearly the COACH(ES).” The Thrashers would go on to finish the year at 76-points, 28th in the NHL. It’s what allowed them to pick 3rd overall and select Zach Bogosian in the 2008 Entry Draft. It was “inadequate sampling,” of course. But, I gotta be HONEST here, like I always am.
For my $0.02, here’s what I think it would take to have Don Waddell fired. He’d have to commit a felony that so embarrasses the team, to the very point where, only his resignation or termination would suffice. And, well … Don Waddell is a law abiding citizen, as far as I know. Michael Gearon, Jr., and Sr., for that matter, appear to like him quite a bit. As does Bruce Levenson. And Ed Pescowitz, as far as I can tell. Granted, I’m no “insider” with special knowledge. The only member of the AS, LLC to ever speak of Waddell in LESS THAN GLOWING terms … was … you GUESSED IT, Steve Belkin. Belkin called him “incompetent” at the initial hearings, the famous one where Billy Knight refused to shake his hand, and the moment was captured on the front page of the sports section.
Forbest Magazine reports that Don Waddell’s contract expires in 2010. I presume that to mean in April of 2010. But, perhaps, they meant June 30, 2010. But here’s what I suspect, but CANNOT PROVE. It is only a theory, and an unsubstantiated one at that. Ready? If Don Waddell is still the named GM of the Thrashers at the DRAFT, then an AUTOMATIC 1-year renewal would kick-in, making it a 3-year deal that was signed, back in 2008. I think it was TSN.ca that reported Waddell received a 3-year deal in 2008. But don’t quote me on that one. A two-year deal, with an automatic survival clause, would make it … a three-year deal. But Forbes cannot report a 3-year deal … precisely because they don’t know if Don Waddell will survive all the way until April, at regular season’s end. If the Thrashers are a playoff team this year, and manage to win even one (1) game, I highly, HIGHLY doubt the AS, LLC would fire Waddell. First off, they seemingly like him. They praise him constantly. They call him “one of the most respected GM’s in the league.” They defend his track record by citing that the failure years of the franchise occurred under previous ownership incarnations. So, in their eyes, it doesn’t count. But, what of the three (3) non-playoff years (2006, 2007 & 2008) under their Administration? Well, the AS, LLC simply chalks that up to Steve Belkin not being a paying participant in the ownership investment group. Plus, I believe, and CANNOT PROVE, that they flat-out told Waddell, “Let’s embark on a brand new 4-year building project while this lawsuit blows over. Don’t worry about the results. The goal is high-end draft picks to rebuild this team. Just like we’re doing with the Hawks.” Don then strutted around saying, “I think my job is safe,” whenever a reporter asked if he thought he might get fired. We all sat there, as FANS used to accountability in sports, and thought, “Denial’s not just a river in Egypt.” Well, how WRONG we were. Waddell’s job was as safe as the GOLD in FORT KNOX. And perhaps, still is. The only entity that can fire him is ownership. And seemingly, they’re delighted with his performance, goals, and objectives in overseeing this franchise.
And there it is, folks. Those of us who might think that one (1) playoff berth in a decade of seasons, come this Spring, is substandard performance results … may be disappointed when Waddell’s contract is once again renewed. Fan opinion is not weighed by this ownership. This ownership will do WHATEVER THEY JOLLY WELL WANT as it relates to the GM position. The only thing fans can do … is abstain from the product, if they disagree with the direction of the franchise. And plenty of them do. But the franchise survives with new fans, ticket give-a-ways, and fans of the opposition team, etc.
My thoughts on how Kovalchuk might impact Waddell’s future here are this: The ownership does whatever it wants. When Josh Childress tried to hornswaggle them out of $10 million-a-year, they just said, “no.” The explanation?? Chilly wasn’t worth that kind of money. Perhaps they were right. He went and played in Greece. The AS, LLC then spent the money another way. If the AS, LLC and/or Waddell feel … that Kovalchuk’s contractual demands are egregious, they’ll opt for “Plan B.” It’s just that simple for them, I believe. They’ll cite Briere’s deal, Gomez’ deal, the Campbell deal, and the Drury deal as evidence that many players who reach the UFA market get overpaid compared to their actual results. Pause. What? You know they will. And you know they’ll say that Kane, Bogosian, Little, Pavelec and Enstrom are the future. And that the team has a great nucleus of young talent moving forward, etc. They say whatever they want. They’ll say that next year’s team is a playoff team. Why not? What stops them from projecting that? They do it all the time. Then cite injuries or other misfortunes as having derailed the season. If you asked them, “Didn’t you think it important to lock up #17 for the coming years?” They’ll say, “Sure, we did. We TRIED. We presented a very nice offer. One that would have kept him around for a long time, and one that allowed us to get the pieces we lacked to put the Stanley Cup at Center Ice. But in the end, the matter couldn’t get resolved. And ultimately, he chose to play elsewhere. There was nothing we could do, and still be responsible, moving forward, with this franchise.”
Stop. That could actually happen. But, maybe it won’t. Maybe he’ll re-sign after the Olympics. And those who like Kovalchuk will rejoice in song. And those who don’t care for his defensive lapses and high cap hit, will rejoice that he’s gone, along with his $6.5 million cap hit.” Kovy’s departure does allow some new and interesting strategies to be attempted. And no, I don’t think it will spell the end of Waddell if Kovy does, indeed, make a tree and LEAVE. Ownership likes Waddell. They admire him. And they say so whenever they’re asked about him. If the AS, LLC ever fired Waddell, I’d be utterly stunned. I suspect that Waddell’s tenure with the club will end … when he finally gets FED UP ENOUGH to resign.
Matt
December 17th, 2009
7:36 pm
13-5 shots for Dallas to this point. Another disappointing start in the 1st period. What’s the definition of insanity again?
Midfield
December 17th, 2009
9:51 pm
I’m sick and tired watching Hainsey. Anderson trusts him in clutch situations apparently, but – come on. They should not have gone to OT. This narcicist ices the puck first, and then he fans on it in front of own net. Not to mention time after time he gets moved away from the puck all game long. How many breaks do you need, Ron? Buy Pavelec a big fat dinner.
stendec
December 17th, 2009
10:12 pm
Talk about roller coaster rides! The Thrashers won an overtime game on home ice in their All Hallows Eve uniforms after surrendering the tying marker in the final two minutes. A Thrasher netminder allowed almost half a dozen goals but won. The same Thrasher that scored the go-ahead shorthanded goal netted the winner in overtime. That same Thrasher leads all NHL players in the winning goal category. This was a nice one after the Thrashers failed to collect any points in the previous bout south of the Georgia border. Way to go Thrashers. No. I do not expect Captain Ilya Kovalchuk to stay in a Thrasher uniform. Just my opinion. Good night all. ++STENDEC++
Brendan
December 18th, 2009
12:53 am
Ranallo warning?? Not seeing one. Okay folks, here’s your boxscore: http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2009020505. Some interesting notes. 47 shots against. In a HOME game. Aye, aye, aye. My 1st star of the game is Peverley, who had his sixth GWG this season, with his second of the night. My second star is Kubina, who was +1, with an assist, while logging the most minutes for our blueline at 23:27. My 3rd star was Finny, with 1G, and 2 helpers. I think, despite five (5) goals against, that Pavelec merits a star. He made 4-5 “highlight reel” type saves.
Peverley had 3-points, Finny had 3-points, and Kovy had 2-points. Antropov scored again. That’s nice to see him finding the twine more often, after a slow goal scoring debut to the season. Congrats to Jim Slater for catching the ferry boat of Schneid Island.
The following players were +1: Schubert, Reasoner, Armstrong, Slater, Salmela, Thorburn, Enstrom, Peverley and Kubina. The following players were -1: Bogosian, White, Kozlov, Finny, and Antropov. Evander Kane was the only “even” Thrasher for the game. At -2 were Hainsey, Little and Lovy. Hainsey was a -3 in the last game. Little was a -2 in the Florida game, too.
Here’s how our blueline minutes went: (1) Kubina, 23:27, +1, with an assist, (2) Enstrom, 22:55, +1, with an assist, (3) Bogosian, 21:17, -1, no points, (4) Hainsey, 20:12, -2, with an assist, (5) Schubert, 15:36, +1, no points, and (6) Salmela, 12:55, +1, no points.
Atlanta had 25 shots on goal. It is the 1st ever Thrasher win at Philips Arena over the Dallas Stars. Dallas is probably my least favorite team in the entirety of the NHL. So I took particular delight and savor in this victory. Though, it was troubling to toss them a point with such a late goal.
Rawhide
December 18th, 2009
1:03 am
Brendan – Sorry dude…my bad. Here is the new blog.