After Kovy, Waddell Should Have Little On His Mind
Last March, on trade deadline day, the radio voice of the Thrashers Dan Kamal commented on XM’s NHL Live that re-signing Ilya Kovalchuk was “priority one” for the team and that “there is no 1-a or 1-b” regarding this issue. As I’ve opined previously, I agree with Kamal that there is no higher priority than getting the captain to put pen to paper on a new contract and that is where the bulk of Don Waddell’s attention should be right now. However, there are a couple other players on the roster that I wouldn’t mind seeing Waddell take care of as well…sooner rather than later.
Of the forwards that are expected to play in Atlanta this season, there are but four that are under contract past next summer. Todd White, Chris Thorburn and Marty Reasoner are signed through the 2010-11 season.. after that, they’ll become UFAs. Then there is Nik Antropov who signed a 4-year contract in July.
Spencer Machacek is under contract for this season and next, but it’s yet to be seen whether he’ll play in Atlanta or not this year.
Colby Armstrong, Slava Kozlov, Jim Slater, Eric Boulton and Rich Peverley are all scheduled to be UFAs after this year…Bryan Little is set to be a restricted free agent.
And while Army and the Peever are two that I would like to see signed to extensions as early as possible, the name on that list that I feel should be placed on a priority level just below Kovalchuk is Bryan Little.
Bryan Little will be a RFA next summer (AP Photo/Don Heupel)
Last season, in his first full year of play, the 12th pick in the 2006 draft did everything he needed to do in order to show he is indeed ready to play at this level full time. His 31 goals were second on the team, behind Kovy’s 43, and his 51 overall points was good enough for fourth… between White’s 73 and Armstrong’s 40. Those numbers solidified his role as a top-six forward on this team.
He began the year as a part of the only line that was able to generate points on a consistent basis…playing to right White and opposite Slava Kozlov. At the mid-point of the campaign, that line had accounted for 48 of the team’s 124 goals…Little had 19 of them…and had amassed 113 combined points during that time. It was the lone bright spot during the season’s first half that was otherwise painful to watch.
Toward the end of the season, Little was primarily playing on the right side of Kovalchuk’s top line and continued to produce offensively once there…whether it was White or Peverley at the pivot.
In the fall of 2007, he made the team during training camp and played with the Thrashers to begin the year. On opening night, just after the Thrashers’ division championship banner was raised, he scored the only goal for the team during a 3-1 loss to the Capitals. In doing so, he became the first Thrasher to score in his NHL debut. He was demoted later in the season to play in Chicago, but there he helped the John Anderson-coached Wolves on their way to an AHL championship. However, in 48 games played at the NHL level that season, he produced 6 goals and 10 assists.
Little is one of those players that will, in my opinion, live up to the hype given of his potential. It is not inconceivable that he could be pushing 40 goals and/or 75 points this coming season. If he has that kind of year, his price will do nothing but go up all the more…and deservedly so.
This is why I feel that right after Ilya Kovalchuk, Don Waddell should have Little on is agenda.
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162 comments Add your comment
R. Stroz
August 17th, 2009
9:18 am
FIRST
Alan
August 17th, 2009
10:08 am
SECOND
The Earl of Bud
August 17th, 2009
10:17 am
I think the main thing I want Waddell to do is break the “no negotiations during the season” thing. Granted there can be a million other reasons for doing that that we don’t know about. But if Little isn’t signed by opening night and he does start heating up, do we wait until next offseason? I don’t mind as much because he is restricted, but still.
I don’t think it’s so bad that so few forwards are signed past next year. Kozlov is sailing into the sunset so we don’t need him signed per se. If Kovalchuk gets signed (let’s just say he does otherwise this is the least of our problems) you really only have to take care of the RFA Little and then depending on how Peverley does. That’s your top 6 taken care of (I am planning on someone new coming in for Kozlov). Reasoner is signed and given that Armstrong was just extended for a 1 year deal there is some other plan there for Colby so now your 3rd line is pretty well settled. We don’t even know who the 3rd LW will be for this year so no need to worry about the LW for next year. Slater will sign here so I am not going to worry about the 4th line.
Buzilla in CT
August 17th, 2009
10:34 am
THIRD
Buzilla in CT
August 17th, 2009
10:34 am
Fourth….damn, no metal
Smoothie
August 17th, 2009
11:18 am
Has anyone been able to access the Thrashers rumour link on the Spector’s Hockey website? Every time I click on it, my computer aborts the operation…not sure if there is a glitch on their website or with my PC. Anyone have the scoop? Probably much ado about nothing (reporting that no we don’t have any interest in Zherdev), but it sure would be nice to hear Manny Malhotra is having a change of heart and now wants a 2 year deal worth $3.5 M because Kovalchuk convinced him this team has the makings of a contender! ‘Cha right and then hockey pucks will fly out of my butt!
Your Mammy
August 17th, 2009
11:59 am
You are correct Iceman , not much for Waddell to worry about after Kovy…..hopefully it will be easy!
R.Skeen
August 17th, 2009
12:01 pm
Smoothie if you click on the comments button it should take you to it that worked for me atleast
World Be Free
August 17th, 2009
12:20 pm
I did not know Don had the “no negotiations during the season” rule. Maybe that will change with Duds, since I believe Dudley signed with the WHA during the 74-75 season.
Signing Kovy is the #1 objective, #2 getting vet help. No idea what Manny is up to. EOB-sorry to see you mentioned Slater again. I had forgotten the stiff was resigned.
Still going over McCartney’s tunes in my head from Saturday.
The Earl of Bud
August 17th, 2009
12:58 pm
WBF, Waddell actually had that rule at one point but then broke it as he negotiated with Hossa. But in other key dealings in the past referred to it and did not negotiate during the season. So I am not sure if it is still a hard and fast rule. Obviously in the case of Little, or even Peverley, I hope he can break it to lock them up if they start out fast.
World Be Free
August 17th, 2009
1:00 pm
Let’s hope Duds influences these decisions.
Brendan
August 17th, 2009
1:02 pm
To the best of my knowledge, the one and only proactive contract Don Waddell has ever written went to Toby Enstrom, last September/October. Hopefully, Toby’s lackluster year, by comparison, hasn’t put DW off the concept of “proactive contracts.” Bryan Little may have another banner year. Or, he could slip a little. This is why they play the games. My point is this: “It sends the ‘right message’ to offer him a PROACTIVE contract.” Stop. How could that ever be the ‘wrong message?’ This market has trouble with player retention. And attracting UFA, out on the open market. Locking up THRASHER DRAFT PICKS sends a message that … a player can have a long career, right here in Atlanta. They’ll get paid. They’ll be respected. They’ll be treated fairly. They’ll get credit for their hard work.
Get it done, Waddell.
polskidawg
August 17th, 2009
1:04 pm
I have to admit that I was quite surprised and happy over Little’s scoring touch last season. He looks like a natural scoring RW rather than a center, which was/is a need on this team anyway.
I’m somewhat with Earl of Bud on this – Little could wait due to his being a RFA. I’d actually wait with Peverly as well, simply to see if last season was a peak or a hint of good things to come.
Really, Armstrong is the only one of that list that I’d work on sooner rather than later. He seems to be a “glue” guy on this team.
GaVaHokie
August 17th, 2009
1:08 pm
Smoothie… it’s just a stupid story from Kevin Allen about Kovalchuk possibly going to the KHL after this season.
http://spectorshockey.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=461:nhl-rumors-august-17-2009&catid=5:trade-rumors&Itemid=4
World Be Free
August 17th, 2009
1:25 pm
I am banking on the quick resign, similar to what Columbus did with Rick Nash. If Kovy really was what is best fpr the team, he’ll avoid delaying his decision through the season.
The Earl of Bud
August 17th, 2009
1:35 pm
“Really, Armstrong is the only one of that list that I’d work on sooner rather than later. He seems to be a “glue” guy on this team.”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but a player who is on a 1 year contract cannot get an extension until January 1st. So even if Waddudley and Armstrong agreed right now to a new contract league rules prohibit us from signing him for the rest of the calendar year.
Sara
August 17th, 2009
1:41 pm
Allen’s a maroon. Of course KHL teams are going to offer Kovy huge contracts next summer if he isn’t signed. He’s a gifted player and a friggin’ national hero. And while I think Kovy does have long-term aspirations about playing at home in Mother Russia, right now all he talks about is winning the Stanley Cup and he can’t do that in the KHL.
Toby
August 17th, 2009
1:52 pm
Not sure he thinks he could do that in Atlanta either
Tony C.
August 17th, 2009
1:59 pm
OUCH!
Glovesave29
August 17th, 2009
2:30 pm
A maroon…classic! Someones been watching Bugs Bunny lately. And kudos to you for that!!
I’d sign Bryan to an extension now. He’s a got a great future in this league and we need to show him he is a vital part of our future. It also sends the message to Kovy about locking up those who we plan to grow on. What I like best about Little’s game is that he has damn soft hands – the man can take almost any pass, but then he does good things with the puck once he has it. He’s calm in the tight areas around the net. There was nothing “flukey” about his growth last year and I expect more of the same.
EOB – yeah, you can add Brett Hull to that list. He’s everything his Dad wasn’t. Bobby is a great guy, and ambassador for the game – don’t buy that silly story that was in the Russian newspaper about him being a bigot. I had the pleasure to spend a few days with him when he was in town about 10 years back for an autograph show. We talked about this issue. As an MOT who grew up here in the south, i’ve unfortunatley met some bigots. Bobby Hull in not one of them. A classy, nice guy. Now, i’ve never met Brett, but i’ve heard little nice about him…
The Earl of Bud
August 17th, 2009
2:45 pm
Glovesave, just remember this about Brett, and it speaks to him both on and off the ice – he’s got one foot in the crease and the other in his mouth.
ranallo10 (in AT)
August 17th, 2009
2:53 pm
It’d be great if every prospect to come through the Atlanta system were as successful as Enstrom, Little, and now Bogosian have been. Granted none of them really cut their teeth at the AHL level (Little being the exception), but it’s nice to see some Atlanta drafted talent playing top 2 pairing/line minutes for Atlanta.
Byran Little is “the man”, plain and simple. Bogosian is a stud, Kovalchuk is a superstar, but I’d say right now Little is my “favorite” Atlanta player. I was really happy to see him play well this past season, I hope he can build on that success.
Smoothie
August 17th, 2009
3:17 pm
Thanks Hokie! Didn’t think I was missing anything special. We probably won’t hear anything about potential FA acquisitions at least until camp starts or even after a few pre-season games if certain guys are still unsigned.
ranallo: right on! Little has made huge strides from his frosh campagin to his sophomore. It was fairly apparent in the season opener last year (Little had two goals) that he had added significant core and leg strength as he was not only more explosive to loose pucks, but he was noticeably stronger along the half-boards and in the corners. Eventually, that became even more readily apparent when he started camping out in front of the net on the PP and scoring goals regularly.
Go Bryan!! Let’s hope he imrpoves another 20 goals!!
GaVaHokie
August 17th, 2009
3:41 pm
I think the best part about our current prospects is that their names “pop up” in places other than Thrashers linkage… like US Development Teams, U18 Tournaments, Frozen Four, Junior All-Stars, etc… these guys are achieving and getting accolades.
O’Dell, Machachek, Holzapfel, Morin, Kane, Espo, Postma, Saponari.
The Earl of Bud
August 17th, 2009
3:44 pm
ranallo10 (in AT) in terms of hockey I think “who’s jersey would you buy“? It’s so easy to put on a Kovy jersey, but some of the really good fans are the ones that can find the niche players that are great but don’t have the superstar status. While I hate the one armed Atlanta jerseys, I was thinking of getting a Little one soon myself.
The Earl of Bud
August 17th, 2009
4:08 pm
GaVaHokie they are popping up in places like that. This last weekend Morin & Saponari just tallied some points this weekend in the USA-Russia junior games. In the 4 games all were high scoring but Saponari & Morin each had 1 goal and 2 assists over the 4 games. Apparantley Morin’s came on an unassisted breakaway that was nice.
lee
August 17th, 2009
4:23 pm
hurry up and get it done, waddell we shouldn’t be wastin presious time now.
EOB- definetly agree, the fans that pick the most popular players probably aren’t the most loyal. if u think about it, kovy is a great goal scorer, but wat about the best goalie or assist player?? i had a exebly jersey but now that he’s traded im trying to get a hedberg or little.ex was a great D, and some ppl choose kovy over ex. nothing wrong with kovy, i mean KOVY ROCKS, but really?? , at least half of the fans in the arena are probably wearin a kovy jersey. that’s just my opinion, anyone agree?
***im just sayin
The Earl of Bud
August 17th, 2009
4:30 pm
lee the only way I disagree with you is when I see the Russian Kovalchuk jerseys or his all star jersey. Those I like seeing a ton more but it would be die hard fans that would have those so I guess it wouldn’t apply to your theory.
GaVaHokie, I just went back and look at the full stats from all the scrimmages that they are counting for the junior camp and Morin is 3rd on the team in points. He is also 2nd in PIM and got in a fight against Russia. What is more refreshing is the number of times he and Jordan Schroeder (top scorer and 1st round pick last draft) get an assist on each other’s goals so they must be on the top line together.
Glovesave29
August 17th, 2009
5:30 pm
I’ve got the sweeeeeet AS jersey from the game in Minnesota. The beige throwback style with the “37″ patch on the arm. Although it blows to wear it against the Wings as it looks too close to their jersey. As for wearing Kovy’s name – he’s the longest tenured and highest scoring Thrasher, so I have no problem with it. I can appreciate the fringe player (my USA WCOH jersey is Joel Otto!), but if youre shelling out $80 for personalization (and not the crap job they do at Philips – I am talking about the double stitched AND heated on tackle twill numbers) you might as well get your favorite. I expect to see more Littles, Bogos and Enstroms this season.
Anyone seen the new USA jersey for the Vancouver games? The IOC decided no logos from each nations sanctioning body were allowed. So the USA with the red stripes flowing off of the S is gone, as is the red/black maple leaf with the player in it for Canada. Since when does the IOC hate corporate logos? I seem to remember EVERYTHING was sponsored here in Atlanta. Anyhoo – the jersey is pretty bad. No arm stripes. Red and white waist striped and simple white block USA across the chest. Find it on http://www.puckdrawn.com
Brendan
August 17th, 2009
5:33 pm
Just for furtherance of Bryan Little discussions, let’s talk numbers. (This is always fun. Rolling eyes, and waiting for bloggers to start calling each other idiots.) If you were the GM, what kind of offer would you make, PROACTIVELY, for Bryan Little? Are you thinking 5-years/$25 million? Are you thinking 3-years/$12 million? Are you thinking 6-years/$25.5 million? Are you thinking about an 8-year deal? If so, that pays him until he’s 29. Are you thinking, “There’s no way I go over $3.0 million-per-year?” Or, are you thinking about Thomas Vanek’s deal, when a 2nd year player got a seven year/$50 million deal, for a cap hit of $7.143 million, roughly? Vanek went 5th overall, in 2003. Bryan Little went 12th overall, 2006.
Remember, at age 25, with seven NHL seasons, a player can become an unrestricted free agent. He’s 21 now. He’ll be 22 in November. Are you thinking six years or more, in an effort not to be paying UFA prices, during those UFA years? Are you thinking more like $3.0 to $3.5 million? For that figure, 5-years would be between $15-$17.5 million. Would you think that $4 million-per-season felt “right?”
We bloggers may be all over the map on this one. I tell you right now. I’m going to forgive Waddell for overpaying, if he can land Bryan Little now. It might take Little a few seasons to grown into the dollar value of the contract. But when he’s 24-25, his deal might be regarded as a STEAL.
Remember, one of the goals of a PROACTIVE contract is to ECONOMIZE a bit on the player down the road. Keep something else in mind, as you make your calculations, Atlanta’s market has to pay a little bit more. That’s just the way it is. You also want to be sure that your offer doesn’t “insult” the player. How do you avoid doing that? Well, you’ve got to look at similar production from similarly aged RFA players, who play the same position, (2nd line forward,) then project GROWTH and DEVELOPMENT for Little.
I don’t know who Little’s agent is. Maybe he’s telling Bryan, “Look, kid. You pot 35-40 goals this year, and we can start to entertain RFA offersheets of $5 million or more for you. Let’s wait.” Maybe Bryan Little would be so moved by a PROACTIVE contract, that he’d agree to sign 5-6 years, forgoing some of his UFA money. Discuss.
Toronto Fan
August 17th, 2009
5:47 pm
You guys are going to love Antropov and Kubina. We had to shake up our team but those two athletes are gifted players. Look for Antropov to score 30.
R. Stroz
August 17th, 2009
5:54 pm
Brendan – I attribute Enstrom’s proactive contract to the concerted efforts of a bunch of us crazy bloggers that tried to get enough write-in votes to get Enstrom in the All-Star Game in Atlanta a few years back. Waddell noticed all the write-in votes and decided he better keep this kid around. Yes, I’m being facetious…well somewhat.
Maybe, in the future, we should start a write-in campaign for any player that we wish Waddell to proactively re-sign.
ranallo10 (in AT)
August 17th, 2009
7:21 pm
So we should all write-in Kovalchuk …?
Rawhide
August 17th, 2009
8:20 pm
Toronto Fan – Thanks…we’re all excited about seeing how they contribute this year! Check in more often.
Everyone – Did you see this…the judged tossed the Spririt’s bid to buy out Belkin.
Dwayne
August 17th, 2009
8:31 pm
6 yr at 4.5 mil
Dwayne
August 17th, 2009
8:32 pm
per yr
The Earl of Bud
August 17th, 2009
8:47 pm
Brendan I’ll play this game with ya. I would offer Little a contract that ends in his final year of RFA status, similar to what we are doing with Lehtonen. He should be pleased with a 3 year deal with a good bump. And if he does blow, we aren’t on the hook for a Hossa type deal. If it was a 3 year deal he would be just turning 25 that season but it would only be his 6th season (Slater was just 25 and had less than 7 years so this deal he just signed was as a RFA). That would be his last year of RFA status and signed through 2012/13. Then we negotiate before the 2013/14 season and he is still restricted. If this doesn’t jive with the CBA let me know where I am off. While I stated earlier I don’t want to give too much too soon, I think this makes both parties happy and if he gets to at least the $3 mil range that’s a nice increase over the $850 thousand he is making now. If he gets the same contract as Enstrom I think that is not bad if it does it for 3 years and we renegotiate with him when he is restricted. Or maybe we bump it up with that in mind.
Alan
August 17th, 2009
9:20 pm
Rawhide, this caught my attention:
Belkin, however, does have the right to appeal Monday’s decision.
My reaction: “Aw, hell. Here we go again!”
Midfield
August 17th, 2009
10:38 pm
What caught my attention is that – unlike the Hawks – the Thrashers are not tied to the Philips lease and can be moved.
Tony C.
August 17th, 2009
11:13 pm
“Unlike the Hawks, the Thrashers are not tied to a 30-year bond payment-agreement for Philips Arena and could be moved.”
=
We’re F#$^#@!
R. Stroz
August 17th, 2009
11:29 pm
It’s time for the NHL to step in and force action since a court decision has been reached. For all intents and purposes, millions of dollars and years of time have been expended on a legal battle which resolved NOTHING. The entire situation is back at square one.
At this point, the ownership problems in Atlanta differ little from the situation in Tampa, except the ASG has more petulant owners than Tampa.
Smoothie
August 17th, 2009
11:53 pm
Midfield – what are you talking about? That was not in the article that was linked. That statement is flat-out wrong. The Thrashers ARE tied to the operating lease, check ur facts please.
Brendan
August 18th, 2009
12:40 am
R.Stroz, I keep hoping the NHL has a clause, or will CREATE one in the next CBA, that can remove incompetent owners, as it deems fit. And, when that situation occurs, that the NHL step in to run the team until suitable ownership can be found. I’d be in favor of that.
I know I have wished the NHL would step in and run the Thrashers several times over the past four seasons.
Let’s keep those Bryan Little contract discussions coming. It’s been good so far. Good ideas are being tossed around for a potential proactive RFA contract.
Brian Rudisel
August 18th, 2009
12:48 am
FORTY-THIRD!
My only thought is that Kovalchuk has been pretty clear that he wants to see that the Thrashers are headed in the right direction. In order to really see that, it’s going to take quite a few games of the season, perhaps half of the season. I will honestly be shocked if Kovy signs before October, let alone before training camp. Patience is the key. Antropov and Kubina are only the solutions on paper, but how are they when they hit the ice in a Thrashers uniform under coach John Anderson? Your guess is as good as mine.
With that said, next offseason may be just as important as this offseason. Lot of pending free agents, and convincing the other valuables (i.e. Bryan Little) that Atlanta is where they want to stay. If Kovalchuk doesn’t sign during the season, you better believe Don Waddell will be more hellbent than ever on signing him before July 1st, and until he signs elsewhere. And in that worst-case scenario, it will put a damper on giving Little a qualifying offer. Guys like Slater and Peverley, in said scenario, will become hot depth players on the market and could get scooped up quick if they don’t sign after next season.
Rebuilding the team means looking at the big picture, and focusing all attention on Kovalchuk would be short sighted if we don’t play our cards right. We need Kovalchuk, but do you ever believe that obsessing over re-signing him could get a bit dangerous, given it could impact the rest of the Thrashers future?
If I were GM, I would even toy with the idea of signing Bryan Little first. Following after Toby’s and Marty’s extension, the more players that believe in the Thrashers enough to re-sign may be a good indicator of the team heading in the right direction, and a good indicator to convince Kovalchuk to pursue the team.
Brendan
August 18th, 2009
12:53 am
“Could” is an interesting word. The sun could explode tomorrow. The Earth could shift off its axis, altering weather and gravity as we once knew them. William Hung could win a Grammy(TM). Pauly Shore could win an Oscar (TM). The Thrashers could leave Philips Arena. But would that make any kind of sense to the ownership group, who needs that annual naming rights revenue from Philips? Philips is on the hook until 2019, I believe. That was the deal they made. And the deal was contingent upon two major pro teams occupying the facility. Just because some city bonds don’t obligate them, supposedly, doesn’t mean the Thrashers would really up and leave.
Are there any overweight people reading this blog? The fastest way to lose eight to ten pounds is to cut off your head. Would you do it? Allrighteee then. The Thrashers aren’t going anywhere. And the NHL has rules about keeping teams in place, for certain periods of time, when there’s an ownership change. “Could” is an interesting word.
LAC
August 18th, 2009
5:54 am
Now watch what happens…
Simon
August 18th, 2009
6:14 am
Lets talk about an extension for Byron Young…
Rawhide
August 18th, 2009
6:35 am
Simon – Yes…Byron Young. One of E.J. Hradek’s favorite players!!
Sara
August 18th, 2009
7:18 am
Brendan it isn’t even just the naming rights revenue that’s going to matter to Spirit either. They own the operating rights to the arena – which means they stand to make money from the minimum 41 home games the Thrashers play in Philips each season. I don’t think they could drum up enough “Disney on Ice” and Miley Cyrus concerts to fill that void. Additionally, the Thrashers are responsible for a portion of the lease payment on the arena. If the Thrashers are sold to a local owner, that owner is now responsible for that portion of the payment, taking more financial pressure off Spirit. If they sell to someone who moves the team, Spirit is still solely responsible for 100% of that lease payment, except without having any revenue from the Thrashers to offset it. It’s possible that the Thrashers’ portion of the lease payment is less than the losses they are annually posting – which makes it a net-sum gain to ship the Thrashers out and make the lease payment from Hawks/Arena revenue. But it’s still a much smarter business model to make someone else bear part of that expense instead.
Sara
August 18th, 2009
7:32 am
BTW, I wouldn’t count on the League being some big savior for the franchise. Keep in mind they backed Spirit in the first place over David McDavid. They are responsible for Boots del Baggio in Nashville. And the situation in Phoenix really calls for close scrutiny. The League is showing signs of buckling on the relocation argument. Every time they have to have this fight (first with Pittsburgh, then Nashville, now Phoenix), the resolve weakens and their position weakens and the pressure from other interested venues, particularly from north of the border, strengthens. If it were anyone other than Jim Balsillie, I don’t think Bettman would be this entrenched in the fight now.
And outside of Bettman, the ones fighting hardest to retain the Coyotes are the city officials (no offense to the fans) – because they don’t want to lose the lease payments. That’s NOT an issue here. Whether the Thrashers stay or go, Spirit will remain and will make the lease payments. Technically the city loses nothing if the Thrashers leave. And while there are some great fans in ATL, it’s not enough of the overall population to put up enough of a fight. As scary as this is, as fans, we are going to have to trust Atlanta Spirit to be the guardians of hockey in Atlanta. And now I think I have to go throw up.
Simon
August 18th, 2009
7:59 am
Rawhide-thanks for the link. Great read!
ranallo10 (in AT)
August 18th, 2009
8:01 am
I think that’s the most expensive “do over” I’ve ever seen…gotta love the ASG.
World Be Free
August 18th, 2009
8:05 am
Bryan Little-I do hope the Thrash get a deal done right after the sign Kovy and get vet help.
ASG-nothing we can do about this folks, so just let it ride. The NHL has a track record of keeping teams in cities vs. moving them unless there are no other options. I think there are options to keep the team here, we just have been heard of them yet.
Sara-great points about filling the financial void in the arena.
R. Stroz
August 18th, 2009
8:21 am
The Spirit Clowns have created their own version of “Groundhog Day.”
GaVaHokie
August 18th, 2009
8:24 am
Ranallo… and aren’t the teams worth less than when they offered to buy him out in 2005? It’s almost like the ASG expected a “do over”, they had 4 years to cook the books, diminish the value of the teams… and the cherry on top… a bad economy.
ranallo10 (in AT)
August 18th, 2009
8:36 am
Hokie — Agreed. Their court costs can likely be chalked up to successfully diminishing the value of the franchise. I have no idea how much we’re talking about but I could see them being content spending $3 million in the courts to save $10 million in the buyout process.
You gotta give ASG credit sometimes, they seem more slippery than a used car salesperson or even a pawn shop owner.
Adam
August 18th, 2009
9:39 am
Does anyone have any comparative numbers for attendance on the Thrashers vs. Hawks?
During this years playoff run for the Hawks there were several games played in Phillips that were not sellouts and the only 2 playoff games for the Thrashers were played in front of a packed house. If the Thrashers were able to just make it to the second round this year that would really generate some major income. I would also view that as a successful season for this team at this point. Hey and once in you never know what can happen.
As far as Little. I say lock him up for 4yrs at 13.5mil.
h
August 18th, 2009
9:40 am
not sure the ASG is at fault here at all…..it was an agreement which was drafted very poorly by the lawyers when they put their organization together and Belkin tried to take advantage of the crappy agreement. Hopefully, things can start moving forward. It is a big win, and even if there is an appeal, the ASG majority has to be feeling extremely comfortable that they will eventually prevail. I think this is good news. Now we have to see if the ASG goes out and spends a little more money now…….(not holding my breath but you never know)
Rawhide
August 18th, 2009
10:29 am
Here are Michael Gearon’s comments on the court ruling. Needless to say, he’s very pleased with the decision.
The Earl of Bud
August 18th, 2009
10:32 am
Adam, the Thrashers actually do better from an attendance standpoint. Listed below are the attendance numbers each year but also what place each team finished in the conference standings. So when they have equal finishes, the Thrashers actually outdraw the Hawks. Last year was the first time we did not outdraw them compared to having a similar finish in the standings, but we also did worse than ourselves when having that similar finish in the standings. Last year their 4th place finish was also much better than our year we finished 3rd, so it was the only off year.
As well, we are more profitable from an arena standpoint, but they are definitely more profitable from a TV standpoint. Forgive me if the fonts do not line up in this blog for the numbers below. I tried to use some abbreviations to get it to work but I have no idea how it will look once posted.
Hawks. Thrash Year Hwks Thrs
16,748 14,626 2009 04th 13th
16,280 15,831 2008 08th 14th
15,594 16,240 2007 13th 03rd
15,071 15,550 2006 14th 10th
14,302 —— 2005 15th —-
13,798 15,121 2004 12th 10th
12,894 13,476 2003 11th 11th
The Earl of Bud
August 18th, 2009
10:34 am
Let me try this again –
Hawks Thrash Year Hwks Thrs
16,748 14,626 2009 04th 13th
16,280 15,831 2008 08th 14th
15,594 16,240 2007 13th 03rd
15,071 15,550 2006 14th 10th
14,302 ——– 2005 15th —-
13,798 15,121 2004 12th 10th
12,894 13,476 2003 11th 11th
Adam
August 18th, 2009
10:48 am
Thanks EOB!!!
I understand last couple yrs Thrashers numbers for obvious reasons and it’ll be, hopefully, nice to see how they shake up after we have more than one consecutive winning season under our belts.
Adam
August 18th, 2009
10:52 am
If there are no more UFA signings for Dwad this off season who does everyone see getting traded before 10/1 or is he done?
Sara
August 18th, 2009
10:54 am
Adam one thing to note though is that attendance numbers for the NBA do not have the same value as attendance numbers for the NHL. The NHL relies on ticket sales for a disproportionate amount of its revenue compared to the NBA, which makes huge money from its broadcast agreements. So even if the Hawks have less than stellar attendance, they could still be profitable from those other revenue sources. Not so the Thrashers – they’re going to have to have consistently high average attendance figures to have a shot at being profitable (though some consistent deep play-off runs would certainly help out a lot as well).
GaVaHokie
August 18th, 2009
11:06 am
“Unlike the Hawks, the Thrashers are not tied to a 30-year bond payment-agreement for Philips Arena and could be moved.”
However, I remember Waddell mentioning that they have an agreement with the NHL that they won’t try to sell the team out of Atlanta… am i correct?
The Earl of Bud
August 18th, 2009
11:12 am
Sara as for your comment about TV revenue, that’s what I was getting at when I had stated that “As well, we are more profitable from an arena standpoint, but they are definitely more profitable from a TV standpoint.”
Adam, you can definitely see that both teams are doing better versus the early part of the decade. Those 10-12 place finishes for both teams in 03-04 are getting outdrawn by a 13th place Hawks finish in 07 and a 14th place Thrasher finish in 08.
At the same time, you can see that things get better with growth as you can see with the Hawks. The Thrashers on the other hand regressed 2 years ago and kept regressing in attendance last year. So this year is very critical for hockey in Atlanta because if they don’t get a good jump at the gate things will look very bleak. Let’s hope Kovalchuk signs and Kubina & Antropov add to the mix while Little & Bogosian continue to grow. Throw in Enstrom, Pavelec, Peverley & Armstrong continuing to grow and all these “ifs” can add up to something good hopefully.
The Earl of Bud
August 18th, 2009
11:17 am
“However, I remember Waddell mentioning that they have an agreement with the NHL that they won’t try to sell the team out of Atlanta… am i correct?”
GVH, that’s an awfully loose statement that Waddell just “mentioned” something. You may be right but I want to know there is something in legal writing that can stand up to Balsille’s lawyers, not just a brief mention of something that is rather vague at a press conference or in an interview.
GaVaHokie
August 18th, 2009
11:32 am
Well, I’m not worried about it anyway… if Phoenix and Nashville couldn’t get moved, I trust the same for Atlanta… any sell would need league approval, and I don’t see Bettman allowing that anytime soon.
GaVaHokie
August 18th, 2009
11:33 am
EOB… sorry, wish I had some links for you, but I don’t have time this week to find it. Perhaps someone else will recall with the specifics.
R. Stroz
August 18th, 2009
11:57 am
EOB – There is probably a better link than this…but I don’t have time to find Vivlamore’s article on 5/10/09 in the AJC.
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/130097
World Be Free
August 18th, 2009
12:01 pm
Alan-hope we have more UFAs on the radar before training camp. Soon it will get to the point that you will be able to get a good player on a one year deal, as we did last year with Marty.
World Be Free
August 18th, 2009
12:05 pm
EOB-hate to sound like a broken record on a Polka jukebox, but the key to this season is getting Kovy inked before the start of the season. I think everything else will fall into place, once he is signed.
Brendan
August 18th, 2009
12:06 pm
So, what happens now, in the lawsuit? Maybe the funniest thing will be that … by the time the thing ends, Joe Johnson’s contract will have expired, which is what started the hostility in the first place.
I’d like to get Steve Belkin’s comments on that. “Mr. Belkin, how do you feel about the player you didn’t want as a Hawk, being gone, by the time the lawsuit was settled?” I think Belkin’s response would be, “Good. I never wanted him here in the first place.” Actually, that’s not true. Belkin probaby did want him, just not for those trade terms.
Adam, $3.375 million in cap hit. Interesting. Let’s keep ‘em (RFA Proactive contract offers for B. Little) coming!
GaVaHokie
August 18th, 2009
12:08 pm
Stroz… I found it… it helped to know the date, thanks.
http://www.ajc.com/thrashers/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2009/05/09/thrashers_move_ontario.html
Brendan
August 18th, 2009
12:40 pm
Rawhide, you’ve been a busy Internet Blogger.
Here’s a link to Rawhide’s mistress blog. (I won’t tell Trixie that you keep one on the side. What happens in Vegas doesn’t count. Unless you get caught.) (http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-Tiller/Ruling-Keeps-The-Great-Octocluster-Entangled-In-Itself/127/22568
Brendan
August 18th, 2009
12:41 pm
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-Tiller/Ruling-Keeps-The-Great-Octocluster-Entangled-In-Itself/127/22568
Brendan
August 18th, 2009
12:42 pm
There, I think the link worked that time. I suck at that. I need remedial link training.
The Earl of Bud
August 18th, 2009
12:52 pm
RS & GVH, thanks for that I read the link. It mentions 3 things of which only 1 makes me feel secure.
1) Atlanta Spirit, which owns the team, is “currently involved in litigation with co-owner Steve Belkin that must be resolved.” Well we have no idea what this is in terms of how it can be resolved, when it will be resolved, or that according to the link that BT provided above, it is resolved.
2) Atlanta Spirit “signed a commitment letter to the league to keep the team in Atlanta a specified number of years” Until I know how many years, this means nothing. What if it is only 2 more years? I am still not satisfied.
3) the naming rights to Philips Arena, home to the Thrashers and Hawks, are “tied to it housing both an NHL and NBA franchise.” This answers the question that some of you were debating above and I have heard this many times before. This is something that would only allow them to have a local buyer. However, if Coke or Home Depot were to purchase naming rights and it allowed Philips to walk, then we are in trouble.
Brendan, as for what happens now, it almost sounds like Belkin is just a lame duck owner with no power on the operational side. He lost the force to be bought out at his price, so now he may have to settle for less money or twittle his thumbs. As for Joe Johnson, considering he is one of the Hawks’ best players, it makes me think that Belkin didn’t have the right foresight in this whole battle to begin with.
The Earl of Bud
August 18th, 2009
12:54 pm
WBF, I am with you that I too want Kovalchuk signed ASAP, but that is out of our hands and we just have to sit and wait.
Smoothie
August 18th, 2009
12:56 pm
For what it’s worth, I heard Gearon on 680 the Fan this morning say something to the effect of “Belkin has been participating in calls throughout the process.” It was just a quick little reference to Belkin when discussing the lawsuit and whether it has affected their financial situation adversely.
He had just finished talking about how the ASG carries no debt and that everything is “out of pocket” before mentioning Belkin. If I in fact heard him right, and that’s what he meant, then Belkin may be in more of a hurry to rid himself of this financial albatross now that the judge has tossed out the buy-out idea. Legal fees on top of capital calls plus a tough economy could spell the end of Belkin. I personally don’t see the ASG selling off the Thrashers (if that is possible) to a new owner until their agreement with the NHL (15 years I believe per Craig Custance) is at least satisfied.
GaVaHokie
August 18th, 2009
1:00 pm
EOB… actually #3 sounds like it needs more clarification to me… it’s always been understood that the two teams were linked to the Philips agreement, but according to Viv’s statement…
“Unlike the Hawks, the Thrashers are not tied to a 30-year bond payment-agreement for Philips Arena and could be moved.”
… I’m confused again.
The Earl of Bud
August 18th, 2009
1:29 pm
Smoothie, I think Custance is wrong on the 15 years as I know someone who worked on the paperwork for the 2nd $41 mil payment to the NHL and the term was longer than 15 years (unless he meant 15 MORE years).
GVH, I copied that quote right out of Viv’s article, so it is almost as if he is contradicting himself there. I have heard that first quote of his about there needing to be both an NHL and NBA team for the Philips naming rights deal from other sources.
GaVaHokie
August 18th, 2009
1:37 pm
EOB… yeah, I’m agreeing with you… it seems contradictory to everything we’ve ever heard about the Philips deal.
Smoothie
August 18th, 2009
2:04 pm
Not sure really if this proves anything, but I found this old article by Maria Saporta of the ajc.com going back to the time before Philips was built and touches on the elaborate dealings that were conducted to protect the city’s bond covenants:
“Maria Saporta’s column, with assistance from Stan Hubbard, appears regularly. Reach Maria Saporta by e-mail at msaporta @ajc.com”
Per Maria Saporta:
The New Deal
Paying off construction bonds for the arena will require annual debt payments of about $12.5 million for 30 years. Originally, the Hawks pledged all the team’s revenue to back the bonds if the revenue from the arena itself fell short. But the NBA rejected that idea. Here are key parts of the Hawks’ current proposal:
Arena revenue will still be pledges. If a National Hockey League team joins the Hawks, there will be about twice as much money as required. If just the Hawks play, there will be about 1.3 times the required money.
Hawks’ unconditional guarantee to pay off the debt if arena revenues fall short.
Title to the Hawks franchise as collateral is Hawks fail to make up any shortfall.
(Source: Atlanta Hawks)
Back to my commentary: while the Hawks could actually become city property if the ASG were to default on a bond payment, it certainly would not make sense for them to sell off the Thrashers unless they were able to recoup enough money through the sale to be able to pay down significantly the bond obligations or pay them off entirely. In this economic climate, is there anyone willing to put up $150 – 200 M to buy the Thrashers? Because that’s what they would need approximately in proceeds to pay off their existing covenant with the city of Atlanta.
Apologies to midfield who I called out last night because I did not see the quote about the lease agreement from a different article posted about the court ruling. I still think there are other obstacles, just like DWad has said in the past, that would make selling the Thrashers to an owner outside of Atlanta very, very difficult. It just doesn’t seem to be in anyone’s best interests at this point. Perhaps in another 10 years when the ASG only owes $125 M or so to the city.
diego from lilburn
August 18th, 2009
2:10 pm
Sara, the phrase “guardians of hockey in Atlanta” makes me more than a bit queasy myself!
Maybe they will be better stewards of that than they are of being the guardians of the season-ticket holder fanbase!
(ps – once you get it all out you usually feel lots better!)
Tony C.
August 18th, 2009
2:13 pm
Ok that makes sense.
Thrashers/NHL =15 year portion of a 30 year total deal. I can see where you’d make a onger bet on the more profitable league. Especially when you’ve past history of NHL folding in this market (shouldn’t happen, but what’s the saying about a fool[s] and his money?).
I also recall DW being very confident that once the lawsuit was settled, that (A) The club wasn’t going anywhere, and (B) He’d have more loochie to spend.
Would LOVE it if there was an owner “waiting in the wings” as it were, not sure this is the case but I’m finding it harder and harder to be surprised by anything The Gang That Couldn’t Sue Straight does.
Rob
August 18th, 2009
2:22 pm
Smoothie – I re-checked the article. In the very last paragraph it states the following:
The owners have denied that wither team would be sold, but sports business experts have said previously that the viability of the Thrashers is in doubt. Unlike the Hawks, the Thrashers are not tied to a 30-year bond payment-agreement for Philips Arena and could be moved.
That right there says that the Thrash are not tied to the 30 year bond and could be moved…
Glovesave29
August 18th, 2009
2:29 pm
Bertuzzi just signed a 1 yr / $1.5M deal with Detroit
GaVaHokie
August 18th, 2009
2:30 pm
I’m guessing the bond-agreement is something completely separate from the “naming rights”… all it means is the Thrashers revenue is not tied into the construction bonds.
However, they are tied to the naming rights and there is contractual obligation to the NHL to keep the team in Atlanta for “however long”… so, I would say Viv said a little bit more than he should have in that last paragraph. I would say the Thrashers are NOT eligible to move.
Glovesave29
August 18th, 2009
2:34 pm
The Sharks also took the “C” off of Patrick Marleau’s jersey
The Earl of Bud
August 18th, 2009
2:35 pm
I think I figured this all out. I should have caught this the first time. The Thrashers are not tied to the bond payment for the arena itself but they are tied to the naming rights agreement with the Philips company. So the Thrashers can move and not have the bonds effected and it would just be the Hawks that must pay it. But they can’t move without altering the lucrative naming rights revenue that requires both an NHL and NBA franchise play in the arena.
Smoothie
August 18th, 2009
2:38 pm
Agreed Hokie, it was irresponsible at best by Viv, Sekou and Kristi (go figure!) to at least include a paragraph about the naming rights deal and the covenant signed between ASG and the NHL.
Rob, thanks, but where were you last night? See my mea culpa above apologizing to midfield. Too many nitpickers on this blog sometimes.
The Earl of Bud
August 18th, 2009
2:39 pm
You beat me to it GaVaHokie. Either way, the bonds to pay for construction of the arena are a completely different issue than the naming rights for the arena. The Thrashers are not tied to the construction bonds but are tied to the naming rights for Philips. And that makes complete sense as if they have a contract to sell Budweiser beer that would have nothing to do with how they will be paying for an escalator or the roof.
Smoothie
August 18th, 2009
2:40 pm
Including me!! Hence why I’m trying to unearth some additional facts to quell some of the alarm and potential panic over a Thrashers relo.
Glovesave29
August 18th, 2009
2:47 pm
My thought is, that with any and all of the protection written into any contract to keep the team here in Atlanta – if the owners want to sell, and the proposed buyer has enough cash to make it happen, then we lose the team. The hope of course it to get local ownership with deep ties to the community – too bad those are few and far between.
That being said, I thing Phoenix, Nashville, Florida and Tampa would be the target first…and let’s face it, there are only so many cities that can afford an NHL team. Personally, Hamilton, Winnipeg and Quebec would all be a mistake. Huge fan support in small markets, but no corporate dollars means they are headed for trouble. Vegas, KC, Seattle, Houston – can see enough interest there from either fans OR corporations to justify the expense.
The Earl of Bud
August 18th, 2009
2:49 pm
Smoothie I think any team in the sun belt is going to have alarm as long as Balsille doesn’t own a team yet. But ask yourself this, does it make more sense to move the Atlanta Thrashers or the Florida Panthers? We are more secure than they are hands down.
The fact that Philips isn’t tied to the community as much anymore is what worries me the most because the naming rights thing is where we have the most security (requiring and NBA and NHL franchise to play in the arena). They can easily offer Philips a buyout and then go sign someone else at a discount but make more money when the 2 are combined. In this economy that might be tough to do though.
Smoothie
August 18th, 2009
3:17 pm
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:wFHt8Kr8RrwJ:mm1.co.fulton.ga.us/cache/00005/168/2008-0169.PDF+philips+arena+operating+lease&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
This link gives confirmation to the article by Viv and Schwartz stating that only the Hawks are tied to the bond repayment agreement. There is no mention of the Atlanta Thrashers as far as I can tell.
GaVaHokie
August 18th, 2009
3:28 pm
They can easily offer Philips a buyout and then go sign someone else at a discount but make more money when the 2 are combined. In this economy that might be tough to do though.
True, I’ve always thought anyone looking to buy and move the Thrashers would have to make an offer worth breaking the naming rights agreement (roughly $90 million remaining on the deal)… hypothetically, spending at least $50 million over the book value of the team, then ASG negotiating, say Coca-Cola or Georgia Pacific, to a $40 million deal.
Alan
August 18th, 2009
3:52 pm
You know it’s August when people will talk about anything just to talk about stuff. I knew this kind of garbage (”ONOZ, THE TEAM CAN BE MOVED!!1!”) would get blog time as soon as I read the story.
I’d rather read Eklund rumors.
The Earl of Bud
August 18th, 2009
3:55 pm
GVH, if there is $90 mil remaining, they can also offer a buyout to Philips for $10-20 mil. That would be a lot cheaper for them instead of paying $90 mil if times are tough for them and the whole arena thing isn’t even working out for them as expected. Then, that’s $10-20 mil less that the ASG would have to get from the new buyer to justify the deal, say only $30 mil over book value instead of $50 mil over book value.
Rawhide
August 18th, 2009
4:11 pm
ONE HUNDRED AND FIRST!!!!!! HA!
As I promised last week, here is a link to TJ’s site in which you can get information regarding the upcoming Party Bus to the Sharks game on October 24!
Hey Brendan…looks like your “Rawhide’s Rowdies” section suggestion took hold!
The Earl of Bud
August 18th, 2009
4:12 pm
BT, you are a missing link, I mean you are missing a link.
Rawhide
August 18th, 2009
4:24 pm
EOB – It’s there now…hope you can join us!
GaVaHokie
August 18th, 2009
4:51 pm
Alan… I don’t want to talk about it either, but Viv’s slip of the tongue will probably get quoted on Spector.
Brendan
August 18th, 2009
5:20 pm
Excellent, Rawhide. It’s all coming together. (fiddling my hands like the evil Mr. Burns.) Mwa-hah-hah. Wonder if anyone will be sober enough to realize we’re traveling north, towards Nashville?
Just kidding.
ranallo10 (in AT)
August 18th, 2009
6:51 pm
Interesting…Bertuzzi signs with Detroit (reported to be one year at $1.5M).
World Be Free
August 18th, 2009
8:54 pm
Folks, I won’t even discuss any of these hypo situations that involve losing the Thrashers. Let’s just focus on Kovy, acquiring more depth and getting some of our young guys signed long term. I just don’t see getting worked about something that we all don’t understand. Rebuild the fan base and the club, give a potentional owner reasons to keep the team here in Atlanta.
One more thing on Hamilton-Baisille is the ONLY potentional buyer looking at the Hamilton option. And we know what Bett-o and the owners feel about Jimmy B.
I’d rather see a team in Winnepeg anyday. They shjould have never lost their team to begin with.
Sara
August 19th, 2009
8:04 am
Smoothie Sekou Smith has a new article up interviewing Gearon and the relationship with Belkin over the last four years was described as: Belkin has participated in decision-making meetings but has not made capital calls. The article specifically states that if Belkin opts to return to his former standing, he would have to pay up $28.5M – his 30% share of the capital calls. Which by my math means the capital calls have been a total of $95M over the past four years. So here’s the new question: have the other owners ponied up Belkin’s $28.5M or did they go without it? My guess is option two. Which means, on average, a lack of $7.125M over the past four years. Now translate that into Thrashers salary…think that wouldn’t have made a difference?
As for selling to someone who would relocate the team – let’s ignore the agreement with the NHL for the time being. An offer from someone moving the team has to compensate for all the following: loss of revenue from a voided naming rights contract that likely could not be replaced at present value; the portion of the bond payments (the lease) that the Thrashers are responsible for (and which a local owner would be paying); the loss of revenue to the arena from 41 NHL home games. And all of those are going to be above and beyond the actual value of the franchise. The above are additional costs Spirit would incur only if the team was being relocated. If some local owner comes forward, Spirit doesn’t lose any of that money. As of right now, the only person on earth willing to spend that kind of major blunt has been Balsillie and either he’s going to get the Coyotes or he’s done. This is his last chance because the NHL and the Board of Governors have made it VERY clear they want no part of him being an owner in this League. He’s only got a chance in Phoenix because the team is in bankruptcy and he’s counting on a judge to overrule the NHL based on the bankruptcy court’s fiduciary duty to the creditors.
And, for what it’s worth, in that Sekou Smith article, Gearon again reiterates that Spirit is not looking to sell the franchise – they have only been soliciting other investors akin to what Arthur Blank has done.
GaVaHokie
August 19th, 2009
8:19 am
EOB… Going back to our prospect discussion… how coincidental that this comes out yesterday from the Hockey News?
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/27560-The-Hot-List-Scorin-Morin.html
LAC
August 19th, 2009
8:22 am
Great points Sara, I was really taken back by the fact Bilkin has been “involved” over these last four seasons… Funny how we now hear that and never a word before now.
So this mess is STILL really not resolved, so now what ?
Still looks like an out of control bus to me.
kracker
August 19th, 2009
9:10 am
I just read that Smith article, Sara. It answered my question about whether or not Belkin had to pay his share of the cash calls during the last four years. Actually, it only partly answered it. Smith seems to say that Belkin is responsible for those monies only if he remains as a minority partner. Why would he not be responsible if he sells his interest in the Spirit Group?
Either way, things are finally looking better for the ownership group.
But what do y’all make of, or recall about, the judge saying in his judgment paper that David Stern’s comments (said years ago) about the ownership situation likely caused these guys to continue the litigation rather than work out a settlement??
Alan
August 19th, 2009
10:01 am
will probably get quoted on Spector.
And? Don’t we have better things to talk about? I’d rather compare and contrast between Michigan topsoil and Georgia clay and which is better than discuss a hypothetical that isn’t likely to happen.
We have enough problems as it is with Canadians frothing at the mouth with the hopes of stealing any American team and giving it to some dead steel town in Southern Ontario for nationalistic reasons whose AHL team can’t even out-draw the ECHL Gwinnett Gladiators.
R. Stroz
August 19th, 2009
10:46 am
Brendan – Who else is left in the Kovy signing sweepstakes?
I believe there have been more eliminations in said contest.
Get The Puck Out
August 19th, 2009
10:55 am
All i know is these men that are the so called “owners” need to drop their ego’s and resolve this once and for all and try to create a team that can win, and be proud of for their fans and the city of Atlanta and the state of Georgia. This state has suffered with teams that did little to give fans something to cheer for. Resolve your differences NOW and give us FANS a reason to spend our hard earned money and fill the seats of Phillips Arena to watch a team that looks and is a team that can WIN. I love hockey and i will support the Thrashers, but if you do not put a winning product on the ice they will not come. The Braves have one World Series title and a lot of winning seasons, but only one title. It was so disheartining to watch a team come so close so many times you almost come to expect them not to make it to the Series. If the Spirit has any WINNING SPIRIT please let us fans revel in a team that can play with anyone. PLEASE.
GaVaHokie
August 19th, 2009
11:06 am
Well, here’s something somewhat interesting to watch… Ron Hainsey Presser at the Olympic camp.
http://www.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?id=45573
The Earl of Bud
August 19th, 2009
11:21 am
GVH, thanks for the link. Morin looks great so far in the US camp. Not only is he playing 1st line minutes and is 3rd on the team in points, but the guy seems like he can play the physical role too. He is 2nd on the team right now in PIM at 25, leader is at 27 and there are only a handful in the teens. I went to the team site and he is listed at 6′1″ 190lbs. If he grows or puts on a few lbs in this next year of juniors he can be quite a force in the future. Let’s get a few years out of Antro but then this guy will be the power forward that plays with Little, Kane, Espo, and we seem to have something nice in the system.
As for the lawsuit, does anyone think there’s a remote chance that Belkin will just get bought out at the lower price now? If his high price isn’t the market value now, can they buy him out without considering the need to raise capital by selling the Thrashers? Clearly the guy can’t be happy and would be willing to sell one would think.
R. Stroz
August 19th, 2009
12:06 pm
Angelo Esposito is in town.
http://bluelandblog.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/web-coverage-and-informal-skating/
GaVaHokie
August 19th, 2009
12:08 pm
Carolina just signed Stephane Yelle for 1 year $550,000.
Brendan
August 19th, 2009
12:19 pm
R.Stroz, I don’t have the list with me now. But I believe Rawhide had an August guess, right about this time. There was another late August guess, and then there’s three (3) September guesses, including two on the same day. We made them designate a time of day for the announcement of the signing, to break the tie, if it happens. I think the guessed dates were September 7th and 9th. I shouldn’t say anything, as I don’t actually have the entries in front of me. The farthest guess in the future was July 2, 2010. Ranallo and I are both registered with June 30, 2010 guesses, for a Kovy re-signing.
Brendan
August 19th, 2009
12:28 pm
A few years ago, with Rutherford signed Doug Weight; at the time it turned some heads. Per Doug Weight, when asked why he signed with Carolina, his response was, “Nobody else wanted me.” That was the 2005-06 season. It worked out well for Carolina that year. Rutherford likes to gamble on proven vets, past their prime. Yelle has 2 Stanley Cups with Colorado, I believe. That contract isn’t breaking the bank, either. It’s a signing that very well may fly under the radar. But come this Spring, Yelle’s experience could really help the ‘Canes. At 35, he’s still got some gas left in the tank.
Midfield
August 19th, 2009
12:33 pm
Colorado only had one Cup, if I’m not going Parkinson, Brendan.
World Be Free
August 19th, 2009
12:42 pm
Brendan, you may remember that I talked alot about Yelle a couple blogs ago. Boston got a fair amount of play out of him last your. So did Colorado, as you pointed out. These guys are starting to sign for league miniumum, as I predicted well back to get on NHL rosters before the money runs out.
So here we are, having not signed experienced NHL depth while other clubs do just that! Why? what the heck are we waiting for! Looks like Carolina restarted Weight’s career, he’s still going strong, another ex-Ranger that the blueshirts were not patient with.
What does Kovy think?
The Earl of Bud
August 19th, 2009
1:02 pm
Midfield, we all know that Bob Hartley only has 1 cup with the Avs, but Marc Crawford got one a few years later with Ray Borque on the team.
Brendan, Weight never signed with Carolina. He was traded there on the deadline day and then immediately went back to St. Louis as soon as free agency opened. This was the prime example of people saying rental players would go back to their original teams.
The Earl of Bud
August 19th, 2009
1:06 pm
Midfield, I said that backwards. Crawford won the 1st Colorado Stanley Cup and then it was Hartley who came later and won the 2nd Cup that had Bourque on the team.
Midfield
August 19th, 2009
1:15 pm
Thanks, Earl. I’ll be damned – they sure did in 1996. That was the year I spent in a coma having hit my head over the kitchen counter looking for the last beer bottle.
ranallo10 (in AT)
August 19th, 2009
1:19 pm
Yelle was part of both Stanley Cup winning Avalanche teams.
The Earl of Bud
August 19th, 2009
1:30 pm
MF, like I said, if you remember it in Thrasher terms or big name hockey terms, it’s easier. Hartley only won 1 with Bourque, but that one in ‘96 was the first year they weren’t in Quebec and traded for Roy (which I argue to this day if they were still in Quebec then Montreal never makes that trade obviously and they never win the Cup). I also have other reasons along with Pam on Weck and World Be Free for remembering who scored the winning goal for Colorado that first Cup.
LAC
August 19th, 2009
2:19 pm
Looks like we have been shutout on Versus this upcoming season, I could be wrong.
Just what is it about Atlanta NHL Hockey that has so many against us ?
I know these owners are worthless wimps who cannot tie their own shoes, but it amazes
me that we get the shaft ALL the time, Time for the wimps to put up of sell out, or
at least sign more talent to WIN rather than this cheap crap…
GaVaHokie
August 19th, 2009
2:26 pm
Perfect!! I’m glad we have zero Versus games… I won’t have to upgrade to Dish Network Turbo GOLD.
Adam
August 19th, 2009
2:51 pm
In the Av’s cup run in 96′ Roy & Osgood dropped gloves at center ice in gm6 of the CF’s.
The Earl of Bud
August 19th, 2009
3:28 pm
Adam, that was definitely when the Avs-Wings rivalry was at its peak.
GVH & all others, I normally watch through a dish so I will miss the occasional versus game unless I upgrade as well. But, I remember we had a few games that were only carried by the away team’s coverage. I was able to get it through the dish but I thought someone said last year that you can watch it over the internet. Does anyone know if the NHL lets you buy a package to watch over the internet on NHL.com? Reason I ask is because I will be out of town quite a bit this year for work. The dish won’t help me on the road but I will always have internet access.
Anyone know if this is true?
GaVaHokie
August 19th, 2009
3:51 pm
EOB… just briefly searching around I found this… proceed with caution, I’ve never used this service… just happened to stumble upon it.
http://www.watchlivenhl.com/
GaVaHokie
August 19th, 2009
3:58 pm
Interesting… Thorburn and Boulton training with Boxing coach…
http://thrashers.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?catid=656&id=45590
Alan
August 19th, 2009
4:26 pm
Thorburn could definitely use the training. It’s like a trainwreck whenever he drops the gloves… and I don’t mean that in a good way.
The Earl of Bud
August 19th, 2009
4:35 pm
GVH, there are actually quite a few professional athletes that train in boxing/martial arts/mma/etc. Although if there are two guys on the team I want to get boxing training it is our enforcers. Just outside of Atlanta guys like Hines Ward and Jamal Lewis who live here in the offseason do a bit of Muay Thai training as part of their regime. Matt Leinart was doing MMA training to toughen up before this summer. It is very intense and can condition them very well.
Thanks for the link to the website. I hope I find something that I can watch the Thrashers while I am on the road. Yahoo had a service a couple years ago but it was only select games and I don’t want to miss any.
R. Stroz
August 19th, 2009
4:39 pm
EOB – You may want to refrain from refering to Midfield with a two letter acronym.
The Earl of Bud
August 19th, 2009
4:50 pm
RS, nice, with everyone calling me EOB I just went along with the acronyms and didn’t even catch that. RS isn’t anything bad, is it? GVH, WBF, BT I can’t think of anything for those. You just put some Van Halen songs in my head though.
rightshot
August 19th, 2009
4:56 pm
On subject, Sign Little, Bogo, and Pevs long term, then go from there.
Off subject, If the Thrashers can’t find an investor, maybe they could do like the Celtics and sell stock in the team. It might even give the fans/investors more of a chance to let their voices be heard by ownership. I may be dreaming.
ranallo10 (in AT)
August 19th, 2009
4:58 pm
NHL.com has an online package equivalent to their television package NHL Center Ice.
http://gamecenter.nhl.com/
It has high quality feeds and you can even choose between the home or away radio audio (I always choose away, unless it’s against Buffalo).
rightshot
August 19th, 2009
5:02 pm
On subject, sign Little, Bogo, Pevs long term and go from there.
Off subject, if the ASG can’t find an investor, maybe they could do like the Celtics and sell stock in the team. It might give the fans/investors more direct input into the way the team in run.
fes
August 19th, 2009
5:37 pm
you could always get a slingbox.
Brendan
August 19th, 2009
5:52 pm
EOB, I thought Keith Tkachuk was the prime example of a rental player going back to his team? But yes, good catch on that trading vs. signing. And Weight’s situation happened prior to Tkachuk’s, so I suppose Tkachuk’s rental was the next most prime example. To quote Roger Clemmons, I “misremembered.”
Midfield, no sweating the small stuff. There’s a LITERAL element that inexplicably permeates this board. Speaking of which, we haven’t talked about Kalamazoo, Michigan, in like FOREVER. I wonder if they have an “Indian Summer” thingy going on?
R. Stroz
August 19th, 2009
6:34 pm
rightshot – The Boston Celtics were set up as a publicly traded Master Limited Partnership (MLP), which consistently had a high yield. The funny thing was the dividend usually exceeded the MLP’s earnings. In other words, the cash flow was considerably higher than earnings.
Does this sound famaliar? The Thrashers and Hawks are ALWAYS losing money, yet neither franchise has any debt. In other words, cash flow and earnings can differ dramaticaly.
EOB – Back in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s, there was a fairly popular band in the Southeast called Mother’s Finest. After going to one of their concerts, I wore a Mother’s Finest concert shirt to high school. The shirt had a large two letter acronym on the front of the shirt. Although one or two teachers questioned me, I was allowed to wear the shirt the entire school day. The teachers did respectfully ask that I refrain from wearing the shirt to school again. That was the first time being an AP student really paid off.
Do any of you other native Atlantans remember Mother’s Finest?
Brendan – Didn’t Jim Slater attend Michigan State University in Kalamazoo, Michigan?
A27
August 19th, 2009
7:15 pm
Ahh… Kalamazoo summers how I miss them…
Get The Puck Out
August 19th, 2009
7:29 pm
I just downloaded some Mother’s Finest on my mp3. Piece of the rock, mickey’s monkey, rain. Really good band.
Glovesave29
August 19th, 2009
7:42 pm
Mothers Finest were great – but so were the Producers, Atlanta Rythm Section, Pylon and Guadalcanal Diary. REM was always at the Fox in the day, too. Atlanta was a great music town to grow up in. Anyone else here ever go to the Champagne Jam down at Grant Field?
C’mon Stroz, I KNOW you KNOW MSU is in East Lansing. Western Michigan is in Kalamazoo.
goose
August 19th, 2009
8:03 pm
just something hypothetical to throw out there. How would you feel if we traded Pavelic, espo, and a second for kessel and a third, or just kessel.
The Earl of Bud
August 19th, 2009
8:56 pm
Let’s see if I can get all these replies in order.
RS, ever since your post about my initials for Midfield I have had Right Now in my head and can’t get it out. That was about 4 hours ago. Somehow I will get even with you for that.
Rightshot, the Green Bay Packers did a similar set up and it has since been quashed by any other team trying to do the same. I can’t remember what the details are but don’t expect it to happen again after Boston & Green Bay.
ranallo10 (in AT) thank you very much, that is exactly what I remember seeing last year. I am going to investigate.
fes, thank you also. I remember hearing about slingbox and this would help me get NFL games on the road. Do you have any recomendations or product testimonies? Is it good or what? Anyone else have anything to say about a slingbox?
Brendan, it’s because of Tkachuk that I remember it happening to Doug Weight. Like I told Midfield, I don’t remember the Avs Cups as much because I like or watch the Avs, but because a Thrashers coach had one of them. So when the Thrashers were getting Tkachuk, everyone said “oh this is Doug Weight all over again” and I have it engrained in me because of that.
goose, don’t expect anything to happen with Kessel. The only reason he isn’t signed by now is because his shoulder is injured and his first game won’t be until Nov/Dec. So there is no hurry to sign him and I heard they are intentionally taking a wait-n-see approach on this.
Brendan
August 19th, 2009
10:55 pm
Glovesave, you fell right into R.Stroz’s trap. It wasn’t meant to snare you. (R.Stroz, cut him loose from the fishing net.) It was just a joke. Let’s try again. I loved that Nathan Oystrick played at Don Waddell’s alma mater, in WESTERN Michigan. (The trap is now, once again, baited. When I touch my nose like this, smile and nod, stomp my foot and say, “Hello, Mr. Thompson.” You smile and nod back at me. Got it?)
R.Stroz, (getting serious, again, now) August 5th was the guess by Rawhide. August 29 is the guess by Alan. On September 7, Kracker and Hokie are both registered for this date, with Hokie owning at 10AM “tie-breaker.” On September 9, Nikita has Kovalchuk re-inking with Atlanta. After Nikita’s guess, the next guesses are all in 2010, for Kovalchuk re-signing. Ranallo and I have June 30th. Ranallo has 5PM and I have 8PM. FrostyTheSnowMan has Kovalchuk signing with Washington on July 1, 2010. And Bob has Kovalchuk signing with NY Rangers on July 2, 2010. And those are all the remaining guesses from the contest, as it relates to the date when Kovalchuk signs his next contract.
So … are we going to do the “Guess the Opening Night Budget” contest this year? If so, I’d say we have to set a cut off date for guesses. If we’re even going to do it, I’d say September 1st seems like a decent enough cut off date. I’m flexible to September 10, I suppose. It’s up to Rawhide if he wants to do it this year. Remember, Waddell somewhat uncharacteristically stated the budget would be between $45-$46 million. Come to think of it, I can’t recall the source of that statement anymore. But it was sometime much earlier this offseason. I want to say late April or May. And I had entered a guess of $48.5 million, when we last discussed it. I wanted to be more optimistic in the organization’s attempts to show Kovalchuk how serious and committed they are towards giving him the team he so badly covets. Remember, Kovy said he wants to gun for the Cup this year. Technically, that’s still possible, CONCEPTUALLY, when a team sits $8 to $10 million under the cap. And there are still names out there. And there are some players who may or may not retire. (Not endorsing anyone, just commenting.) We saw that Sakic, Holik and Roenick did. Not sure what’s goin’ on with Sundin, Brendan Shanahan, Curtis Joseph, Ed Belfour, Olaf Kolzig, C. Chelios and a few others. We know Selanne and Niedermayer will stay with the Ducks. We know Bertuzzi signed with the Red Wings. I think M. Goc and M. Afinagenov are still out there, as depth players. Did Sykora sign somewhere yet? What about Nikki Zherdev? I’m not advocating anything. But if we really have $10 million before we brush against the cap limit, and there are teams in CAP TROUBLE, trades can be made. UFA’s can still be signed. There ARE options out there, for a team that wanted to be nearer to the cap limit on Opening Night. And … I think Kovalchuk knows that, too.
R. Stroz
August 19th, 2009
11:05 pm
C’mon Stroz, I KNOW you KNOW MSU is in East Lansing. Western Michigan is in Kalamazoo.
Glovesave29 – This is an ongoing joke, poking some fun at Brendan.
Blackfoot was another southeastern band that I really enjoyed as a youngster. I always wondered why some bands never really “broke out” on a nationwide basis.
Brendan
August 19th, 2009
11:26 pm
Does anyone know how long (number of days, hours, weeks, months) Belkin has to appeal this latest court decision? And if he doesn’t appeal it, isn’t this nightmare over, in terms of legal fees and bills? With R.Stroz’s concept that “money is fungible,” could the legal fees that would otherwise be spent clogging the court system … then go into something like, sayyyy, team payroll? I’m just asking a question.
I don’t know what’s next for the Spirit. What are the Vegas odds on them, “Kissing and making up?” Not the physical act. (Slapping an open palm into my forehead.) I swear. You LITERALISTS are going to be the death of me. Is there any chance that Belkin might not appeal? How likely is it that Belkin will remain onboard? If they’re going to buy him out, they should give some thought to doing it now. Just because the Spirit, LLC is no longer OBLIGATED to buy out Belkin, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do it anyway. And then find another partner, who will contribute financially. Perhaps, beginning with that new partner helping to pony up … to buy out Belkin. Or, am I making too much sense?
stendec
August 20th, 2009
12:05 am
OPEN LETTER TO ILYA KOVALCHUK:
It is the dream of every hockey player to hoist the Stanley Cup above his head. Every hockey player wants to be part of a championship team at least once during his playing career. That will never happen for you in Atlanta as a Thrasher. You are a talented athlete. Sometimes you display pride and passion. Other times you give less than your best due to circumstances beyond your control. I do not blame you. I do not believe those times are intentional. A Stanley Cup contender must have a solid netminder. There is no way you can score enough goals to offset the liability known as Kari Lehtonen. Deep down inside you know that. You know the defense is defenseless. Besides yourself there are few dependable scorers. I respect you. I want to see you succeed elsewhere. You deserve that success. Reject any offer from the Thrashers. Money is not worth killing your soul slowly. Many wealthy former players would trade the big bucks they made for one opportunity to lift Lord Stanley’s Cup. The Thrashers will not reach the playoffs. Again. Do you really want that pain? Season after season after season? Cut your ties now. Set your sight on greatness. It is a decision you will never regret financially or professionally. Please consider what I have said. God bless you young man. May you make a wise decision. With utmost respect, Stendec. An unangry Stendec since I realize the Thrashers are the Thrashers. You should too.
lee
August 20th, 2009
6:41 am
ok, this is my thought…. yes waddell should hav LESS on his mind, but not little. yes, kovy would be finished, but it’s not all about kovy here. we don’t really hav a REALLY good player like kovy, so who’s gonna take over when he is injured??? we need to sign another free agent and if we hav to make a trade. we need to do every thing possible to keep a strong team. all im saying is…..we just dont hav enough.
DWTOO
August 20th, 2009
6:59 am
Saw Mothers Finest at the Center Stage for a New Years Eve show in the late 80’s. A truly fine show – the women vocalist has a sore throat but she soldiered on and the male vocalist really picked up the slack. Still remember that night. Somewhere in the crib there are still a few MF cassettes. Need to update the collection – get a little “Piece of the Rock”.
Also saw the Producers at a club on Peachtree about the same time. Friend of mine at the time was a Producers junkie.
Stoz, Glovesave – Thanks for bringing back some good memories. Now I need to get to work. DAMN!
World Be Free
August 20th, 2009
8:01 am
I am from Buffalo and I remember Mother’s Finest.
Saw Peter Frampton last night. Peter looked and played old. I am glad McCartney was much better Saturday. Sir Paul is older and played like a kid, just like Springsteen.
World Be Free
August 20th, 2009
8:04 am
I saw Atlanta Rhythem Section AND Journey pen for the Rolling Stones. Journey and the Stones don’t attract the same crowd.
The Producers! Late 70’s early 80’s stuff, like The Shoes and Wall of Voodoo.
GaVaHokie
August 20th, 2009
8:34 am
Stroz… I have a co-worker that always raved about Mother’s Finest. I may have listened to a few of her CD’s… it’s been awhile.
I grew up in Virginia… it was all about Dave Matthews in the mid-90’s (when I was in college)… they were selling out civic centers without even having a record deal yet.
I had friends who went to UVa in the early 90’s who said Dave Matthews played so often in Charlottesville, you could go to a frat house and see DMB play in the basement and there would only be 8 people there.
The Earl of Bud
August 20th, 2009
10:23 am
GVH, funny how you link that. Going to high school in the 90’s and then starting college that decade, in the Buffalo area no less, I had many opportunities to see bands like the Goo Goo Dolls, Barenaked Ladies. The Tragically Hip just played again in Artpark this summer. Of course Frampton will be there too in a few weeks from what I saw on the schedule so they get their share that are from outside of WNY/SO.
When I first got to Atlanta I had a girl call me one afternoon and say we had to go out that night. She had tickets to see Squeeze in the Variety Playhouse down near little 5 points. It didn’t compare to say seeing the Stones when I was in school at London but it is my only Atlanta concert story.
Trixie (Rawhide's Secretary)
August 20th, 2009
10:28 am
This is your official 10-minute Ranallo Warning!
Jethro
August 20th, 2009
12:19 pm
FREEBIRD!
Skynyrd Rules.
World Be Free
August 20th, 2009
12:58 pm
I saw Molly Hachet in a “small venue” in the late 70’s just as they were debuting their first album.
Not sure if I would recommend Frampton. I saw him in ‘76 and 77 in Buffalo. One cool thing about last night’s show-he encored with “While My Guitar Gently Weeps” from George Harrison. That was great!
lee
August 20th, 2009
4:28 pm
here’s what i think. is it possible to get another good player or are we really that cheap when we r 20,000 under our cap. anyone agree?