Dan Kamal Gives Voice To Thrasherville, Pt. II
When I caught up with Dan last week during the Thrashers prospect camp, he was keeping an eye one particular player of interest…his son Chris Kamal, a goalie. I asked him how Chris was playing and how his recovery was coming along. “I’m very proud of the way that he has reacted to the adversity”, said Kamal. “He had come off a very strong year in his first season in junior hockey…and was looking forward to his second year when he had a freak off-ice injury and suffered a complicated break of his tibia and fibula…and it cost him the whole ‘08-’09 season”.
But, according to the senior Kamal, he’s been up to playing speed since February and is in “the best shape of his life and playing the best hockey of his life…but now he needs to catch a break” in trying to land a position on a junior hockey team.
And as would be expected, as we discussed his son and the other prospects out on the ice, the topic turned toward the Thrashers’ future. Like Chris, the Thrashers have had to go through some adversities of their own over the past couple of years, escpecially since that single foray into the postseason.
And again, Kamal has seen it go from the highs of those two playoff games in Atlanta…to the lows of the way things went in the following season and the beginning of last year…..to the improved play of last spring. He believes the team can get back to where it was just a few short seasons ago.
“Those two games here for the playoffs were beyond my expectations…and it can get back to that. I look at this as a fabulous hockey town. I really think Atlanta is a great hockey town just waiting to erupt when this team…which I believe has turned a major corner… starts to become a perennial playoff contender”.
“But I think what people don’t remember is that it’s hard to win in pro sports. I mean, Buffalo Sabres…no Stanley Cup. Vancouver Canucks…no Stanley Cup. They’ve been around for decades. So, I think the thing you want to do as a franchise is build a foundation…which is not so easy in a salary cap era…build a foundation for you to be a perennial playoff contender. And then you have to hope for health…for your best players to be your best players…maybe get lucky with a guy who you don’t expect to have a career year to do so and maybe make a few tweaks along the way and go from there”.
And about the two disappointing seasons since then?
“For me to see a franchise that’s this young to have had some setbacks…I don’t think that’s abnormal”.
OK, but what of certain self-induced set backs…like, say, the Zhitnik/Coburn deal?
“There was the playoff run, and then the lull in January, and then the trade of Coburn for Zhitnik…and I know a lot of people say ‘Oh you traded Coburn for Zhitnik’, but he played very well [after the trade]. Zhitnik helped the team get back on course for that playoff run. Had the Thrashers been able to win a round or win some games against the Rangers, certainly that trade would have been looked upon more favorably”.
Fair enough, Dan…but what about where the team is now?
“To me what’s very encouraging is the direction the team is going now. It’s a young team… a young foundation, and I think it’s moving forward. It’s clear there is some talent in this franchise and [they are] going to become real impact players. When you’re adding guys like Zach Bogosian and Evander Kane, when you have young guys like Bryan Little and the way he impacted the way he did in his first full year …and Colby Armstrong with his leadership skills …and Toby Enstrom…your starting to get good young ‘faces’ to this franchise that are going to be instrumental in getting this team where it needs to go”.
We then began discussing some of the “faces” that make up today’s Thrashers organization…players such as Bryan Little who he decribed as, “Quiet…tough…surprisingly productive. Gives you that versatility to play either on the wing or center…learned how to score goals in tough areas”.
And what do you think of Zach Bogosian’s potential? ”How high is the ceiling [as far as his potential]…you may not be able to see the ceiling…that good. And to think he just turned 19″.
Of Rich Peverley, Kamal said, ”What a find. Just another example of when some guys get a chance to showcase their skills in an area where they’re given the opportunity and the coach shows confidence in them. It’s much like life…timing and opportunity”.
Now, could the same be said about the newly acquired Anthony Stewart? “Yes, could be…big guy, former first rounder…ya know what comes first, the minutes or the production”?
Kari Lehtonen… “When he’s on his game, I think he’s one of the top-five talents in the NHL…down low, as good as there is. When he develops consistency both in terms of health and his game. I think he’s gonna be one of the best”.
Of course, the position of goaltending will always be one that draws a lot of criticism from fans…he’s the guy that “let in” the goal. Is that harsh?
“Goalies ya know…yeah rebound control is a big thing but they’re human beings. They can’t control every rebound every time. You don’t notice it when they don’t control a rebound and a defender comes in and conveniently sweeps it away”.
“When I was growing up in this sport, the old adage was ‘well, goalies don’t really get it until they’re 25, 26 or 27′…well, Kari’s 25. So it’s a younger man’s game now so everyone kinda expects goalies to ‘get it’ when they’re 21, 22, 23…[but] I think having shown patience with Kari will prove to have been a good thing”.
Now we add to that mix a couple of, what I believe to be, very good pick ups. One being Pavel Kubina. ”I did a demo tape for the Thrashers back in 1998 down in Tampa…Tampa versus Florida…Pavel Kubina was playing for Tampa. I’ve like him since that day. His big, he’s got enough snarle to him…mobile…he’s got a great shot, gives you flexibility on the power play…he’s only 32-years old…big pickup”.
And Nik Antropov? “All I need to know about him…other then he’s 6-6, 240-ish…is that he and Kovalchuk played real well together in the World Championship. I’m very much looking forward to that continuing here”.
Of course, no discussion of Atlanta’s lineup would be complete if Ilya Kovalchuk wasn’t included… ”I think he’s as dynamic a player that there is in the NHL. Certainly Alex Ovechkin getting more attention, and deservedly so…but when Kovy has the puck I lean forward… and I have an inkling that 17,000 others are following suit. If he make you pay more attention or makes you move physically when he has the puck, and Kovalchuk does that for me, to me that’s the biggest complement you can pay a guy”.
And of John Anderson’s first season as an NHL head coach, Kamal said, ”I think John Anderson stayed true to what he wanted to do with this team. It was a learning curve, I’m sure, for him and the players. It maybe took a little bit longer than players and coach would have liked. But man, when it kicked in this team was tough to play against, exciting…I just wish the season had not ended in April. I’m looking for that to carry over on October 3″.
Ok, so there are some good players on the roster…what does the radio voice of Thrasherville make of the team’s chances going into the season?
“I think the team defense will be better…maybe a little less pressure on the goaltending. If Kari Lehtonen, if he’s the guy, or Pavelec or Moose Hedberg…if they come in and play there games and play them extremely well and you give this team reasonably good health and solid goaltending, I think a a playoff push in my mind would be an expectation”.
During summertime, outside of certain broadcast “housekeeping” chores, Kamal fills his offseason time by “doing as many public appearances as the team needs”. Whether it’s a social appearance or charitable event, he’s more than happy to assist. Living here year-round he thinks is very important to talk hockey. “Not only to the folks who are not yet fans…certainly you want to earn their business…but also to people who are fans. To just maintain that connection and maintain that passion”.
“It’s kind of a two fold thing…the fans give me passion for the game and I try to give it back”.
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160 comments Add your comment
World Be Free
July 21st, 2009
9:02 am
I have had enough of the Coburn for Zhitnik trade. It’s like Terrance telling us about trading Jermaine Dye. Enough, time to move forward.
Tom
July 21st, 2009
9:14 am
World Be Free
I think that the Coburn Zhitnik trade is not unto itself the problem, it is the most glaring example of the disease. The Braves front office had blunders, but their successes far outweighed their failures. So it was an aberration.
Meanwhile the Thrashers front office and ownership have consistently made poor decisions and this was just the most glaring example.
Rawhide, Great interview with Kamal.
World Be Free
July 21st, 2009
9:14 am
I have had enough of the Coburn-Zhitnik trade. It’s like Terrance telling us about the Braves trading JErmaine Dye for the last 10 years. Enough, time to move forward.
World Be Free
July 21st, 2009
9:28 am
I cannot argue with you on that Tom, there’s enough examples (Kunitz). But I think we have to put that aside for now and focus on what is ahead, knowing we have Rick Dudley on board. Hopefully, his influence will reduce the number of blunders in the future.
Every club makes mistakes on players, even a Detroit.
Sage of Bluesland
July 21st, 2009
9:28 am
This “message” brought to you by the Atlanta Spirit…Kamal is like Darren Eliot–a toadie mouthpiece who thinks it’s all rainbows and sunshine in the wreck that has been the Atlanta Thrashers for, oh, the past decade…
Take it for what it is, bwue-fwag wavers…I take it with a very small grain of salt…
The Earl of Bud (aka Ice Dog)
July 21st, 2009
10:22 am
World Be Free I am with you on this regarding the Zhitnik-Coburn trade. Everyone was for it back then between the fact that Zhitnik lead us to our first and only division title and on top of that Coburn was severely stunted here by Hartley.
If we are going to just bash Waddell over and over again, then let’s think the trades that Waddell has won. Why doesn’t anyone repeat over and over again the trades of:
Ruslan Zainullin for Marc Savard
Jeff Deslauriers and John Adams for Slava Kozlov
Kurtis Foster for Niclas Havelid (and then turning around years later and trading the aged Havelid for Anssi Salmela who could become a regular here)
And those are just a few. It seems that we can get over the Coburn deal quite easily.
Also World Be Free, I am considering a change to my name based on our exchange from the last blog.
World Be Free
July 21st, 2009
10:27 am
Earl/Dog, it would be an honorable name change
Thrashers27
July 21st, 2009
10:30 am
Such a cinic, Sage. How is it that life is worth living for you? Geez! Try being positive for once, or at the very least, say nothing at all.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 21st, 2009
10:42 am
World Be Free – wonderful, if you see someone at Philips next October in an all white tuxedo with coattails come say hi to me ha ha.
However, I am not a 50-60 year old black man who will jump up on the railings and start dancing if they play Tequila.
Buzilla in CT
July 21st, 2009
10:43 am
Jeff Shultz = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Posehn
Alex
July 21st, 2009
10:48 am
And Nik Antropov? “All I need to know about him…other then he’s 6-6, 240-ish…is that he and Kovalchuk played real well together in the World Championship. I’m very much looking forward to that continuing here”.
Antropov plays for Kazakhstan and they didn’t even qualify for top division…but they played together in AK BARS KHL
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 21st, 2009
11:00 am
Alex as long as you don’t get Kovalchuk and Antropov mixed up with the whole Belarussian fiasco (brothers K and Grabovski) then I’m happy. Although that could be quite entertaining for Atlanta. Nice catch nonetheless.
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 21st, 2009
11:16 am
“Everyone was for it back then between the fact that Zhitnik lead us to our first and only division title and on top of that Coburn was severely stunted here by Hartley”
Absolutely not true, even with your exaggerated use of “everyone”. Most people immediately hated the trade, myself included. However, some of us also mentioned Coburn’s lack of playing time under Hartley (as you said “stunted” development) and said that it made sense why Coburn would be the person traded.
Understanding and explaining why someone does something is completely different than agreeing with it.
I understood why Coburn was traded, but despite Zhitnik’s 14 points in 18 games I still disliked the trade. I was under the belief that with a coaching change the same roster that put them in first before Christmas could’ve made the playoffs. My belief wasn’t able to be proven right or wrong, but the basis of my opinion was that I completely disagreed with selling the farm just to fix a club that had seemingly derailed. In my opinion the coach was no longer being listened to and the team needed a coaching change, similar to how things transpired in Pittsburgh this past season.
Only two trades were made that season that I agreed with: Dupuis and a 3rd round pick for Bourret, and Vishnevski for Belanger. I also had no problem with the claiming of Denis Hamel, because he would be on the PK line as a potential improvement (didn’t pan out and he was claimed by Philadelphia 17 days later). Other than those two trades I thought Waddell paid way too much for a chance at the playoffs.
Alex — I was thinking the exact same thing…I wonder who fed Kamal that inaccurate bit of information, or if it was his own mistake.
Rawhide
July 21st, 2009
11:19 am
WBF – I understand your point regarding Zhitnik/Coburn… my inclusion of the subject was because we were discussing the issue of what the Thrashers have been through over the course of the past few years. IMO, that deal was a disaster, made out of depiration and it contributed to the woes since that time.
However, in fairness, I thought Kamal’s points were prudent as a counter response, so I included it.
kracker
July 21st, 2009
11:21 am
Earl..Ice Dog – Perhaps we can add trading Exelby for Kubina, especially if he resigns next summer.
Alan
July 21st, 2009
11:26 am
Valabik has been re-signed. “Multiple year contract” according to the link. And, as always, “Per team policy, terms of the deal were not disclosed.”
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 21st, 2009
11:28 am
ranallo10 (in AT) fair enough. Perhaps I shouldn’t have used “everyone” but of the people I talked to back then (and they know their hockey) plenty of them didn’t complain a bit. So my sample/universe is off but what were the blogs like then? And I mean THEN, not 18 months later when hindsight kicked in.
I too loved the Belanger trade. I was also upset when we let him go and picked up White. But White has made me eat enough crow so I won’t go there.
But even if it was an understanding of the Coburn trade versus a full endorsement of it as you say, isn’t just understanding why the trade was made enough to stop beating this dead horse? There were legitimate reasons for pulling the trigger so let’s stop with it already. Or let’s mention over and over again some of the trades that Waddell won by a landslide:
Ruslan Zainullin for Marc Savard
Jeff Deslauriers and John Adams for Slava Kozlov
Kurtis Foster for Niclas Havelid (and then turning around years later and trading the aged Havelid for Anssi Salmela who could become a regular here)
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 21st, 2009
11:33 am
Kracker totally agreed. Exelby for Kubina can be a landslide. I saw somewhere in a national website (SI.com, ESPN, can’t remember which) that the biggest bright spot of our team now is our top 4 defensemen of Bogosian, Enstrom, Hainsey and Kubina. No way in the world would he write that if it was Exelby instead of Kubina.
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 21st, 2009
11:46 am
Ice Dog — Were you participating on these blogs during those trades? You speak as if you were but honestly I don’t recognize the blog name.
World Be Free
July 21st, 2009
12:07 pm
Ice Dog-I can loan you my white Ted Nugent tux jacket that I got form a Superfest Concert in the mid ’70’s. Can’t remember the year exactly, I think it was 1977. My memory of the era is pretty poor.
Smooth(ie) Bourbon
July 21st, 2009
12:11 pm
Yeah, most of the folks I spoke to AT PHILIPS ARENA during our playoff run had no problem whatsoever saying good-bye to Mr. Coburn. Enough of this revisionist history. Does anyone think seriously that the problems which plagued the 2007-08 team performance rested soley with the lackluster play of one Alexei Zhitnik?? I mean, c’mon, that would be the most disingenuous and absurd things ever conjured up on this all-important blog of ours (no offense to you Rawhide). Yeah, it’s so clear to me now, if we had just had Braydon Coburn playing 2nd pairing mins with Ken Klee, we would have won the first 6 games of the season!!
World Be Free
July 21st, 2009
12:15 pm
Earl/Ice, thanks for pointing out the good trades.
Ranallo-I agree with you, not liking the trade when it was made-having seen Zhitnik’s play deteriorate in Buffalo.
Rawhilde-understood and thanks; Do you have any news on Malhotra or other possible UFAs?
Smooth(ie) Bourbon
July 21st, 2009
12:15 pm
Oh and while we’re on the topic of young, developing D-men, here’s some conversation fodder for you (Earl of Bud, will you please hand out some refreshments to all of the esteemed Hainsey haters out there in our wonderful little blogosphere?):
From Falconer’s Blog: “Using Adjusted Plus/Minus we see a similar pattern. The Exelby-Hainsey was out chanced by badly and their plus/minus was -10. The Hainsey-Valabik combo was not as bad but still finished with a negative shot differential and we can see that they were outscored 12-17 at Even Strenght last season. When we get to the Hainsey+everyone else we see the positive shot and chance numbers translated into a positive Goal Differential of +4 last season.”
-10 Ron Hainsey + Garnett Exelby (11 GF -21 GA)
-5 Ron Hainsey + Boris Valabik (12 GF – 17 GA)
+4 Ron Hainsey + anyone other than Exelby and Valabik (18 GF – 14 GA)
Better get working Boris now that you’re under contract!!
Rawhide
July 21st, 2009
12:29 pm
Do you have any news on Malhotra or other possible UFAs?
WBF – I’ve only seen the same rumor that you have, so I really have little to add to that except that if it’s true he has an offer from Waddell but is holding out for another team…then I’d recend the offer right now. I only want players that want to be here and are committed to making the team succeed.
Brendan
July 21st, 2009
12:30 pm
Rawhide, I just want to state how terrific is it that you took it upon yourself to conduct a two-part Interview with the Voice of the Thrashers. It’s almost inconceivable that we went from “Ice Princess,” whose following of the team was to listen to games on the radio, at work, posting a blog every other week, to this. (I didn’t mean that to be offensive to her. I try not to attack people’s fandom. Everyone experiences that differently and shouldn’t be ridiculed for how much or little they follow the team.) This blog is as active during the offseason as during the season. Attentive fans know that championship-caliber teams mold and shape themselves during the offseason (draft & free agency, plus RFA contracts and trades. The roster is set during this time). It also shows the dedication and passion-level of hockey fans in Atlanta, who continue to take the time and commitment to participate, YEAR-ROUND.
Honestly, I can remember a time when … FOR REAL … we’d get half a dozen posters who would SERIOUSLY put forth trade scenarios like “R. Petrovicky, S. Aubin, and J.P. Vigier, plus our 1st round pick, for Sidney Crosby.” And they weren’t kidding about it, either.
Look how far the blog has evolved from those days. The level of hockey discussion is so much better. We have an excellent fan blogger. And we have very good posters here. Not that we don’t have infighting and name calling, and the occasional trolls from other team’s infesting the blog. But, I think there’s even less FLAMING these days. (Oh God, I just jinxed it.)
This blog has tackled the salary cap, the CBA, and rules thereof, such that … anyone who reads the blog regularly has no doubt LEARNED something meaningful about it. This blog covers salary analysis. It covers trades. It covers the draft, pretty indepthly. It covers the coaching staff. It covers the scouting department. It covers Thrasher prospects, in International leagues, with linked items. (Even with the occasional throwing of Stendecs on the ice in Sweden.) It covers how other teams in the NHL run themselves, (Blackhawks, Flyers, and Sabres most recently,) and their moves, and how it impacts their salary cap, and whether or not an opportunity for Atlanta to swoop in and raid a player exists, or make a trade with them. It even covers officiating and how the rules of the CBA have been applied, or sometimes, not applied. Like in the Stanley Cup Finals. This blog discusses the Thrashers TV and radio personalities. And NHL Network (Dave Reid comes to mind–even Maggie, The Monkey gets an occasional reference) and Hockey Night in Canada personalities (R. McLean, D. Cheery, Dave Hodge) and other happenings (Hot Stove segments). Plus TSN writers and items. And, of course, the GM, Associate GM, and ownership of the Atlanta Thrashers … and the dang, blessed LAWSUIT!!
Nobody has to blow sunshine up the organization’s backside here. It’s your call if you love Waddell and the AS,LLC, or hate ‘em with a passion, and second-guess their every decision. It’s a true theatre of ideas. With no suppression. Good job, Rawhide. You’ve really taken the FanBlog to a better place.
That’s quite an evolution. I think one of the highest compliments a blog can get … occurs when fans of other teams pop in to comment how well it’s run, or how surprised they are by the level of hockey discussion taking place. Some of that may be … just because fans in other markets don’t perceive Atlanta to be a credible hockey market. But I’m not offended when people from other markets pop-in to write, “No offense, but I expected this site to be a bunch of garbage. Who knew there were so many knowledgeable hockey fans in Atlanta. This is a good blog.” Clearly, they means those comments as a compliment.
Tom
July 21st, 2009
12:39 pm
great post Brendan.
Seconded.
Smooth(ie) Bourbon
July 21st, 2009
12:49 pm
Wonderful post Brendan…third-ed.
World Be Free
July 21st, 2009
12:57 pm
Rawhise-I totally agree-we need players that are committed to being here. It sounds like Malholtra is using our offer to get a better deal somewhere else. Time to cut our deal with Manny.
4th on Brendan’s post-u da man
William
July 21st, 2009
12:58 pm
I third. Thank you.
Does anyone know the details of Boris’s re-signing?
Rawhide
July 21st, 2009
1:24 pm
Brendan – Thank you very much for the kind words…very much appreciated, especially given from whom those comments come from.
In response to that I’ll repeat what I told Dan Kamal last week when he offered up some very gracious words about this blog…I told him the real beauty of this forum is what takes place below my post. There are some very, smart, articulate, witty and knowledgable hockey fans that frequent this forum and that is what makes this blog-thingy tick more than anything else.
Also, I’ll add that this is why I feel the obligation and desire to do what I can in regards to hosting certain events…like viewing parties at TJ’s or group outings at Philips. It’s just my way of being able to show my appreciation for those of you that take time out of your day to read my ramblings and participate in the discussion.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 21st, 2009
1:33 pm
Ice Dog — Were you participating on these blogs during those trades? You speak as if you were but honestly I don’t recognize the blog name.
ranallo10 (in AT) I wasn’t referring to people participating on the blogs, I was referring to people that I talk to at the games, personal friends, etc. about the Coburn trade. I was actually asking you for your input on what the blog people thought of that trade back then as I even admitted that maybe my sample/universe didn’t agree with what people may or may not have been saying on the blogs. Here it is again from 11:28am:
ranallo10 (in AT) fair enough. Perhaps I shouldn’t have used “everyone” but of the people I talked to back then (and they know their hockey) plenty of them didn’t complain a bit. So my sample/universe is off but what were the blogs like then? And I mean THEN, not 18 months later when hindsight kicked in.
Smooth(ie) Bourbon
July 21st, 2009
1:45 pm
William, per Chris V on the other blog, 2 years: $725 K & 800 K. I reckon Viv managed to track down either Boris or his agent.
On the subject of Kane and JA’s comments in the Q&A with Viv, you get the feeling the Thrashers brass has every hope and expectation that Kane will challenge seriously for a roster spot. That combined with some of the “depth” signings we’ve made (Stewart, Crabb, Thor etc) probably means they are done spending money. In other words, good luck Manny in finding employment somewhere else.
I still think we could make a move after the pre-season and after all of the bottom 6 talent has been duly evaluated. There will surely be some waiver wire activity plus trade winds blowing as teams maneuver to get under the cap by Opening Night.
William
July 21st, 2009
1:48 pm
Thanks =)
Buzilla in CT
July 21st, 2009
2:09 pm
Off topic…Did anyone catch what is going on with our Erin Andrews? Turns out GAVA Hokie had a hotel room next to her and took some video. Right on Hokie!
Buzilla in CT
July 21st, 2009
2:17 pm
…I also enjoy the blog Willy Tilly. You do a much better job than your predecessors.
LAC
July 21st, 2009
2:36 pm
Excellent Brenden,Hit the nail on the head as ALWAYS !!!!!!!!
Old News Alan….
Dale Tallon
July 21st, 2009
2:39 pm
Same Dog, Same tricks, Same schtick…Don’t feed the mutt, he bites.
Alan
July 21st, 2009
3:06 pm
I’m not sure what crawled up your ass and died, LAC, but if you haven’t had a bowel movement in the five days you’ve had this little problem, perhaps you might want to go see a proctologist. One might also be able to assist in removing your head from within those nether regions as well.
Libby
July 21st, 2009
3:53 pm
Hi Rawhide, I enjoyed your articles on Kamal. Thank you for all your work keeping the Thrashers fans informed.
kracker
July 21st, 2009
4:03 pm
Gee, Brendan, Rawhide’s gonna want a BIG raise now!
ben
July 21st, 2009
5:01 pm
i read this blog all the time, even though i’m a little too busy to post. i really feel that we in the community have grown in our knowledge. i appreciate the level of back / forth and Mr. Tiller’s goodnatured humor. I also appreciate that this sight has educated me about the ins and outs of the business side of the game.
It wasn’t all that long ago that it felt as though people were venting a great deal of rage. I remember right around Hossa’s departure, reading a post where some one described wanting to assault the ushers at Phillips for example. Let me make this clear, I AM NOT A WADDELL SUPPORTER and haven’t been since Heatley’s departure, but I see this site as a way to vent thoughtful frustration at those who are in charge. Not to spew rage and frustration.
Mr. Tiller, Standec, Brendan, and some others whom I’m neglecting to mention; I see you as valued members of Atlanta’s sports media. While it does bum me out that this market doesn’t get any respect from other media north of the Mason-Dixon, we should rise above that and maintain a higher standard of excellence. This would be a baby step in getting top-flight UFAs to want to come here.
ben
July 21st, 2009
5:03 pm
other, of course, than the times we type F I R E D O N N I E !
Tony C.
July 21st, 2009
5:26 pm
Saw a headline on PuckDaddy “Kovy wants Heatley to return”… needless to say, my jaw hit the floor. Then the link opened and i saw it was not The Kaptain , but rather L’Artiste Kovalev. Apparently, there’s more than one “Kovy” in the league
Tony C.
July 21st, 2009
5:28 pm
I swear, I’m going to invent a “sarcasm” font.
ben
July 21st, 2009
5:29 pm
who knew . . .
Randy
July 21st, 2009
6:38 pm
Kamal is the biggest apologist out of all of them, Elliott included!
Why don’t you say what you REALLY FEEL, Kamal?
Randy
July 21st, 2009
6:41 pm
Alan, your comments include big words and little substance – at least the other guy can be positive about things and has logical comments
World Be Free
July 21st, 2009
11:09 pm
I had to post this, mostly because I complain so much about how cheap the Sabres are. From the Buffalo News-
“The Buffalo Sabres capped their full season tickets for this season at 14,825, the team announced Tuesday. This is an increase of 500 tickets from last year. The club renewed 95 percent of its season tickets this summer and was able to sell more than 1,200 new season tickets to members of its Blue & Gold Club.”
While Sabres fans on blogs may be bitching about not paying the right players, many more have not given up hope. While some of us may be upset at the past performance and direction of the club, it is important to not give up hope.
Hockey Biltong
July 21st, 2009
11:59 pm
It was very dark a year ago.Now there is light. New coach, new assst gm, new coach asst. New influx of players. Springtime for Thrashers Hockey. Savour it. Remember the cr@p games with no effort and remember the recent games with redirected focus and energy. This will be an enjoyable season of hockey. Patience, for good things to come.
Russian
July 22nd, 2009
8:01 am
I read a rumor from Russia. They are talking about Kovy contract. They said that Don Waddell was offering $11 mln per year. Did anybody hear about it? I am just wondering if it is a true. Lot of MONEY!!!
Toby
July 22nd, 2009
8:24 am
Russian:
Kovalchuk to re-sign with Atlanta
http://allhockey.ru/news/57412/
Google translation:
” “Atlanta” is going to sign a multi-year contract with Ilya Kovalchuk. . At the same time forward the annual salary of $ 11.36 million a year – the maximum possible in the NHL.
In these days of negotiations between Dzheem Grossman,Kovalchuk agent and general manager of “Atlanta” Don Uoddellom. . The agent refused the player’s official comments. Uoddell also confirmed that the club intends to enter into long-term contract with Kovalchuk.
“. “Atlanta” Ilya offer a contract in which he will earn $ 11.36 million a year. . This is the maximum fee allowed by the League. Every hockey player can receive a maximum of 20% of the wage ceiling ($ 56.8 million next season).
Toby
July 22nd, 2009
8:25 am
Geeze….that’s a lot of coin. Hope it’s not more than $10…
TableHockey
July 22nd, 2009
8:27 am
Russian –
I heard similar though not anything more than rumors. Sounds about right though – I imagine the offer had to be equal to or better than what AO is getting.
WBF – what part of Buffalo are you from? My Dad’s family is from Williamsville. We were just up there for a wedding last weekend.
Tony C.
July 22nd, 2009
8:35 am
Wow. That is a &^%#-ton of money!
I would hope that it’s not true, because that’s the sort of number that’s going to really bite in about two seasons-the cap’s going to go down, I would think at least to $40M-$46M… so just think about that:
Let’s assume a cap of $45M.
After paying #17 $11M, that leaves you $34M to sign 39 other guys-most of whom we’re all praying continue to progress-which would predicate a pay-raise. Doesn’t seem to be enough $$$ to go around.
Not saying Kovalchuk isn’t worth the big ticket, but wow-that sort of number will ensure he becomes the NHL’s version of Dan Marino-all the talent in the world, but such a weighty contract that there’s little to any room to fill out a competitive team.
Something tells me #17 is smarter than that…
Tony C.
July 22nd, 2009
8:44 am
Or we could borrow a page from Holland and front-load the sucker but make it retarded long.
not the most fiscally sound thing in the world, but it would allow for greater flexibility than a max-cap hit.
Toby
July 22nd, 2009
8:59 am
If he truly wants to build a long term winner… there has to be a point where the extra $2 mil doesn’t matter as much as killing your team’s cap hit for numerous years
Toby
July 22nd, 2009
9:01 am
LOL @ “general manager of “Atlanta” Don Uoddellom”
kracker
July 22nd, 2009
9:42 am
Toby – Yeah, sounds like Don Tweedledum.
Hockey Biltong
July 22nd, 2009
9:55 am
Wonder how many unsigned centers are waiting for Kovy to be re-hired in Atl, before they will talk to the Thrashers??????
Bob
July 22nd, 2009
9:56 am
no way they give Kovy $11m plus per year, that’s idiotic. Who’s the highest paid player? 10 year $90 million sounds more like it.
Smoothie
July 22nd, 2009
10:00 am
I love Kovy as much as the next guy, but paying him max salary (even over 12-15 years to minimize the cap hit) would be impetuous and foolish. I realize he is the key (along with Kane’s development) to future interest in this franchise, but I would hope that Kovy realizes the ASG needs flexibility to give big raises to Little, Peverley, Bogosian and eventually Kane. $10 M maximum would be my guess.
Russian
July 22nd, 2009
10:05 am
Here is list of most Expencive Playesr on NHL:
Lecavalier – $10
Ovechkin – $9
Crosby – $9
Malkin – $9
Hossa – $8
Gomes – $8
Drury – $8
Heatley – $8
Spenzza – $8
Brier – $8
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
10:08 am
Toby & Tony C. hit the nail on the head. At what point do you give up the extra $2 mil so you can have talent around you. Hopefully this includes bonuses so that this deal doesn’t kiss Bogosian goodbye.
World Be Free, I saw that too on the Sabres. They actually have to CAP their season ticket sales so there are some leftover for mini packages and single games. It’s the perfect example of not giving up hope. And a dynamite sports town. The reason I say that is because the Buffalo Bills have not been to the playoffs in over 10 years yet they still sold around 55,000 season tickets last year and this year. That’s unbelievable that a small market town like that can sell so much for not one, but two major league teams.
kracker
July 22nd, 2009
10:28 am
This is sounding like the Russian website picked up some figures & text from the Schultz column and now it’s echoing back as a sourced “story”. I an finding it difficult to believe Kovy would sign for $11M+ and rob the team of at least one, if not more, good players each season. He can’t build a winner that way.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
10:37 am
Keep in mind though that his current cap hit is already at around $7m. Considering that we are $10 mil under the cap, isn’t a $4 mil increase just going to leave us with only $6 mil under the cap for wiggle room instead of $10 mil? As Kane and Little come up for raises in a few years, Kozlov and White will have about a combined $6 mil come off the books which should take care of them. Kubina is getting $5 mil right now so we can give that money to Bogosian and give his spot to a younger player like Postma. Perhaps this wouldn’t cripple us as much as I originally thought.
Hockey Biltong
July 22nd, 2009
10:38 am
Did some research. Russian papres quoting JSchultz in AJC about cap hit, not actual signing…fwiw.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
10:44 am
Hockey Biltong, thanks. So is it just the $11 mil number that was “misquoted” or not an actual fact, or the signing all together? Or is the signing real and they just don’t know the cap hit so they found some number to quote?
Alan
July 22nd, 2009
10:50 am
The $11m number isn’t exactly a misquote. Schultz actually says that, but only in reference to the max yearly salary a player can receive.
“Kovalchuk has a year left on his contract at $7.5 million. Theoretically, his new deal could pay him up to $11.2 million per season (20 percent of the NHL salary cap of $56 million).”
Smoothie
July 22nd, 2009
10:55 am
EOB, your assumption would be true if the Thrashers were a max cap team as opposed to a budget team that looks for revenue sharing to aid them most of the time. Realistically, I can’t see this franchise spending more than $52 M (and that’s with trade deadline acquisitions for a playoff run) in a given year until the ownership debacle is settled.
While it’s a fair statement to say that the removal of Kozlov’s salary and the cap hit on Zhitnik would combine to help offset Kovy’s raise, the ASG would be wise to not use more than $3 M or so for just Kovy alone. I would like to see the other $1.83 M go to Bryan Little assuming he scores at least 25 goals again, which I think he will.
I don’t see us re-signing Pavel Kubina unless he completely wows us with another 40 pt season AND helps improve the team’s (along with Ron Hainsey’s) ES plus / minus figures by at least 10. That $5 M can go a long way towards paying Bogosian guaranteed money and bringing in another solid Top 4 D-man for between $2 and $3 M.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
11:08 am
Smoothie, I agree that we are not a max cap team. But, I think if Kovy resigns and is happy and the team around him continues to grow (which I think it will) the Spirit will keep spending more and I think between this and the Campbell offer they are learning that they must loosen the purse strings on Waddudley. Besides, all of these contract extensions will happen in the next 3-4 years (Kane just signed an ELC, Little & Bogosian will be renewed at an RFA rate, not UFA) which I hope the court debacle will be settled by then.
Also, Little is do for a raise in a few years which is when White’s salary comes off the books, he won’t get it from the Kozlov/Zhitnik amount. Also, it’s also very possible that our next top 4 defenseman to replace Kubina is Postma who will be under an ELC for a temporary pittance.
And most of all, we just need the facts first before thinking Kovalchuk broke the bank on us.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
11:12 am
Alan, I see what you’re saying but I would still refer to it as a misquote. We are not talking about what Kovalchuk could be paid, we are referring to what he will be paid. To say that it is fact that what he could be paid is what he will be paid is a misquote.
I just want to know first that a contract has been signed, then how much is it worth. I don’t want all the hypotheticals getting in the way.
five_hole
July 22nd, 2009
11:30 am
I see a lot of discussion about planning for our cap in future years.
How many here actually think Waddell & the ASG do as much planning as you guys? A show of hands please? . . . counting . . . counting . . . yeah, that’s what I thought.
Alan
July 22nd, 2009
11:36 am
I would say the Russian media misquoted him, but the $11m figure itself isn’t. That’s all I’m getting at.
Russian
July 22nd, 2009
11:43 am
I think he will get $10.5 – 11 per year. Don wants to save his GM chair. Also if Kovy goes out from Atlanta hockey will be disappear as Professional sport in Atlanta.
Smoothie
July 22nd, 2009
11:48 am
I hear ya Bud Dog, but the ASG will only spend more if the team starts winning more this year. Another sub-85 point season will not bode well for ticket sales and it will make the ASG even more gun-shy when it comes to unloading bushels of dough for the Antropovs and Kubinas of the NHL world. To me, this is perhaps the most pivotal year in the history of the franchise and the results of October’s and November’s games have never meant more. It’s now or never this year or trade Kovy at the deadline and build the franchise Nashville Predator style around Bogosian, Kane, Little, Klingberg and the kids from Chicago.
World Be Free
July 22nd, 2009
11:51 am
Table hockey-Lakeview, lived in Williamsville too
Randy
July 22nd, 2009
11:54 am
That’s too much for Kovy
World Be Free
July 22nd, 2009
11:55 am
Earl-makes you not want to believe in all the small market stuff when the $$$ is being generated.
Tom
July 22nd, 2009
11:55 am
My guess is 10 years 100 million total package. Provides security for life and a place on the team. It also crosses the 100 million dollar line that will get max publicity. A win win contract. And Ilya will be only 35 when the contract expires allowing him to sign for another payday if he wants to. At 35, Ilya should still have enough legs and skills left barring injury.
That is the contract that would make me very happy. It allows the Thrashers to have 46 million in additional cap room if they ever get to the Salary cap limits in todays dollars and a bit of flexibility for the future.
Rawhide
July 22nd, 2009
12:14 pm
Wow!!! Hossa may be out for the season.
World Be Free
July 22nd, 2009
12:19 pm
If the timetables discussed for giving Manny Malhotra an offer are correct and he has not accepted it, then it is time to pull the offer and move on.
If we sign Kovy for the numbers discussed, does this mean we have to trade Kari?
Is signing Kovy for this much worth losing Kari?
Will beer prices go up at Philips, as a result of this spending spree?
GaVaHokie
July 22nd, 2009
12:21 pm
I’ll say 7y and $70m
World Be Free
July 22nd, 2009
12:21 pm
Rawhide, would be interesting to see how this injury happened and when it happened. Was his purse too heavy?
GaVaHokie
July 22nd, 2009
12:26 pm
Will beer prices go up at Philips, as a result of this spending spree?
I’d say without question they go up.
Smoothie
July 22nd, 2009
12:36 pm
WBF, damn that’s cold, but oh so funny. Guess teams will now be asking for physicals before FA starts from now on. The circus in Chicago is quite entertaining I must say. Somewhere Martin Havlat is smiling.
R. Stroz
July 22nd, 2009
12:51 pm
Earl/Dog – I hate to tell you but Little’s current RFA contract expires the same time Kovy’s current contract expires, July 1, 2010.
Todd White’s current contract expires July 1, 2011.
Here take a look yourself:
http://nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=ATL&season=0910
World Be Free
July 22nd, 2009
12:59 pm
Smoothie-agreed, I like Hossa as a player, but I have no respect for what he has weasled around the past few years. He’s chasing the Cup, instead of trying to be a teammate building a winner.
Maybe this is payback for the garbage he pulled on Atlanta and Pittsburgh.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
12:59 pm
“Hossa has been average in the past two playoff runs
Whoa. Hossa has been average almost EVERY playoff run.
WBF, it’s still a small market, just a dynamite sports town that makes up for the smaller population. I also say go after Moore if Malhotra is jerking us around, but we never know what is really happening behind the scenes.
Whatever Ovechkin got should be what Kovalchuk gets. Match it dollar for dollar, year for year. Everyone wins there and that’s fair.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
1:06 pm
R. Stroz, I hate to tell you but Bryan Little will still be a RFA when his contract expires the same time Kovalchuk’s current contract expires on July 1, 2010. So that next RFA contract is not going to break the bank like an UFA contract would. We can give him a qualifying offer or something lower for even a 1 year deal like we have seen with other RFAs we have. Then when that contract expires say 1-3 years later, Todd White’s contract will have also expired on July 1, 2011 and that will free up money for the real big contract that Little will negotiate with us.
R. Stroz
July 22nd, 2009
1:31 pm
Earl/Dog – Lets try reading again:
“Little’s current RFA contract expires the same time Kovy’s current contract expires, July 1, 2010.”
Emphasis on CURRENT RFA CONTRACT.
Yes, I know Little will still be an RFA. No, Little’s next RFA contract shouldn’t break the bank but it will considerably more than $875,000. Based on Versteeg’s recent contract, we should expect at least 3 million per year, that is unless Wadley wants to piss him off the same way the Kings pissed off Cammaleri a few years ago. So, yes, Little is DUE for a raise before White’s salary comes off the books.
Just stick to the facts and avoid the spin.
Joshua: Wouldn’t you prefer a nice game of chess?
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
1:44 pm
R. Stroz, so what’s the big deal? Ok let’s take the money from Zhitnik coming off the books and Kozlov sailing into the sunset and give some of that to Little and then use the White money towards Zach Bogosian instead. Big deal. Either way we have plenty of money freeing up our cap in the next 2 years that will make signing guys like Little, Bogosian, etc. very likely.
You don’t need to use the tone you are using. In case you haven’t noticed, we’ve been having some good hockey talks going on around here. No need to ruin that because you want to get pickey over paying Little with Kozlov’s money instead of White’s. Either way the money is there for Little to get a raise. And there will be some leftover for Bogosian.
Brendan
July 22nd, 2009
1:46 pm
Had the best ice cream of my life WNY, at the “Ice Bridge,” on Rt. 104 near Niagara Falls. It was called “Perry’s Ice Cream.” Delicious. They had a flavor called “Fireball,” and “Cinnamon Apple Crunch Pie.” I almost died. I wondered if I could get a case of it sent to Atlanta. We had Perry’s in Ohio, too. Up by Cleveland.
Drove through Williamsville. Charming little town. Stopped at “Sweet Jenny’s,” by some park or other, with a little waterfall. There was a library and a Cider Mill nearby. It was fall, and all the leaves were changing. Really wasn’t that cold, either. I think they called it “Glenn’s Falls” or “Isleview Park.” Can’t remember. It was ages ago.
Brendan
July 22nd, 2009
1:51 pm
I think we should offer B. Little an RFA contract in September, and see if he bites! It’s the best way to save money. If Little puts up 35 goals, or more, this season …. he’ll be up over $4 million-a-year. Even with the prospect of a depreciating cap. Atlanta must work on player retention.
I tell you, if Waddell pulls all that off, he’s got an A+ from me. I said, last April, I wanted to see Waddell take care of internal business. He got Lehtonen, Valabik, Slater, Thorburn, Crabb, Oystrick under contract. I asked for an RFA Proactive deal for Little and Pavelec. And, of course, a re-signed Kovalchuk. Brett Sterling is also going to be an RFA next July. I think that contract can wait. If there’s a goalie trade, Sterling could be part of it. But I don’t know that. If Waddell actually re-signs Pavelec and Little, along with Kovalchuk, I can’t NOT RECOGNIZE that. That’s a major offseason. Add Kubina and Antropov, and it’s really more than I expected. “IF.”
Rawhide
July 22nd, 2009
1:56 pm
Brendan – Very good thoughts as per-usual, Professor. Right after re-sign Kovy, I would say inking Little to a deal would be Waddell’s next highest priority. Sure, he could wait until next summer when he’s an RFA…but Little is one of those players I wouldn’t take chances with. Lock him in now!!
R. Stroz
July 22nd, 2009
1:56 pm
Well Earl/Dog, I’m glad you came around to seeing my point.
No tone, just pointing out what you failed to recognize. I’ve been around the AJC blogs for years without any problems, except for one pest.
BTW, Peverley is due a raise as well as his contract expires July 1, 2010.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
1:58 pm
Brendan, how much do you offer Little this Sept? What if he slumps? Not that I’m against what you’re saying, just playing Devil’s advocate for now. Eventually someone here will say “he did have only 1 good year”.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
2:08 pm
“Well Earl/Dog, I’m glad you came around to seeing my point.
No tone, just pointing out what you failed to recognize.”
R. Stroz, I mean Your Grace, please don’t strain yourself patting yourself on the back because of my utter stupidity and lack of hockey knowledge. If I failed to be descriptive on the exact timing of contracts and how such funds will be distributed for future use, please forgive me oh humble one.
Paminski
July 22nd, 2009
2:16 pm
Kovy for 10 yr – 10 mil a year? Where do we sign?
Earl of Bud – I agree about Little. Why rush? See what he looks like at least through October, then start thinking contract. As long he shows up for training camp in the same shape as last year, he should have a great season.
TableHockey & World Be Free – Part of my family is from Williamsville too and others in Elma. I grew up in Jamestown, summers on Rushford Lake. I visit every other year.
Alan
July 22nd, 2009
2:23 pm
If we can save a couple million bucks by signing an extension with an exceptional talent like Little long before his contract is up… why wait until July 2010? His value can only go up from where it already is now. Waiting could hurt in regards to the internal salary cap.
World Be Free
July 22nd, 2009
2:28 pm
Perry’s Ice Cream is exceptional!
Paminski-remember going thru Rushford Lake on my way to Alfred State College.
all you western New Yorkers can get your Sahlen’s hot dogs, fries and Loganberry at Barker’s Red Hots.
http://www.barkersredhots.com
Time to get Kovy under contract-hope it happenes soon, that would be a party and a signal to all those idiots outside of Atlanta that the Thrashers are for real. We’d be selling more than Kovy!
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
2:33 pm
Alan, I’ll ask you what I asked Brendan. What would you sign him for in September?
World Be Free, I love Ted’s.
h
July 22nd, 2009
2:36 pm
If they pay Kovy more than $9M a year they are nuts. Anything more really straps the team under the cap…especially this team and the way they try to stay a well under the cap. If Kovy wants to win, he won’t ask for more than $9M (Ovie, Crotchby, Malkin dollars)……I guess we could stomach….11 years $100M (so approx 9.1M). With Little and Peverley coming up, we’ll need the extra cash. I think those two along with getting Colby signed to a 2-3 year extension (after this year) is the next priority after Kovy…..keep in mind you’ll probably need to have a little extra to pay for a goalie next year, whether it be Kari or someone else. Seems like you need between $4M-$6M total for two decent goalies. We’re on the bottom of that right now.
R. Stroz
July 22nd, 2009
2:55 pm
Earl/Dog – Off with your head!
Paminski
July 22nd, 2009
3:15 pm
World Be Free – Loganberry….droooooool
Alan
July 22nd, 2009
3:17 pm
Little is making $850k right now, off his rookie contract. Personally, I would sign Little to a deal that will start at $2.5m and end up at somewhere between $3.25m and $3.5m. Make it a four year deal or so. He will go for a lot more at the end of this coming season. Once the season starts, I doubt Little nor his agent will want to talk contract until after the season ends.
Remember, folks. Internal cap. The league cap is meaningless when it comes to the Thrashers, as ours is lower.
Get it done early, and get a discount. It’s that simple.
Smoothie
July 22nd, 2009
3:22 pm
Alan, right on! I would love to get Little locked up as early as possible and I like the length and terms of your proposed contract. $3 M cap hit seems quite reasonable to me. There is always inherent risk when signing a young guy who has only had one big year, but I’d rather take that risk on a guy like Little who has been busting his a$$ every since he stepped foot on Blueland ice. With his work ethic, he will continue to improve and should be good for 20-25 goals per year at the least. Not to mention he seems to be rounding into a very solid 2-way player who can play any forward position.
World Be Free
July 22nd, 2009
3:33 pm
Yeah, Loganberry!
We are going to have some interesting discussions on how much Kovy is worth. I say pay him the $9M, cause losing him would cost alot more in the state of the franchise. Management cannot afford to conitnue to lose key players.
Nobody is truly worth that much dough. But he’s going to get it and do not be surprised if the number goes to $10M.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
3:42 pm
Alan, if we sign Little in September at $3.5 mil, how much do you think he would go for in June? I mean even if he goes to arbitration as a RFA, what other 21-22 year old RFA has gotten say $5 mil in only his second contract?
In one sense I agree and obviously want Little signed ASAP, if nothing else to show that we are going to keep our talent. But he is a RFA and I just can’t see him getting that much more than $3.5 mil next June. I hate to say it but what if he bombs this year and we are on the hook? The amount that it will go up if he plays balls out is not that much more versus than what we sign him for and then he blows a tire. All the risk is on us then and that’s not what the Spirit or Waddudley wants. Let’s see how he starts out as Paminski says and go from there.
R. Stroz
July 22nd, 2009
4:01 pm
I’d rather lock Little up early at 3 to 3.25 million than risk an offer sheet from some buttwipe such as Lowe next summer.
Versteeg and Barker kind of set the rate for high talent level RFA renewal contracts at 3 million/year.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
4:13 pm
R. Stroz, I think Versteeg and Barker are bad examples of what the rate is. Because they never received their RFA offer sheets (which was the nail in Dale Tallon’s coffin) they would have become unrestricted free agents. But that was prevented by them getting signed quickly. Everyone was aware that they would have hit the open market, so they would have had to in essence sign deals with that in mind, thus something above market rate. The fact that Chicago paid more for them was part of the reason used to fire Tallon.
Besides, they only signed for 3 to 3.25 mil/year with the fact that they could be unrestricted. Why then would we worry about Little getting much more than 3.5 mil being completely restricted if the standard is only 3 to 3.25 for a potential unrestricted?
Also we can always sign Little next May/June before Lowe has the opportunity to even make an offer. Lowe hasn’t done any RFA offers since Penner and I think he learned his lesson on that mistake.
Alan
July 22nd, 2009
4:14 pm
You, ah, misread what I said. Under my proposal, his contract would start at $2.5m and end somewhere around $3.25m or $3.5m over a four year period. For the sake of argument, let’s put it like this:
Little signs a four year deal, paying him $2.5 his first year, $2.75 his second year, $3 his third year, and $3.25 his fourth year. His cap hit would be $2.875m over that four year period. If he continues to develop as he has, this would be considered a steal for a player of his caliber.
Every player goes through a slump every so often, but Little would be worth every penny of this proposal. He goes out on the ice, day in and day out, and works hard. He never takes a night off, and even if he doesn’t score, you can tell when he’s on the ice.
I mean even if he goes to arbitration as a RFA, what other 21-22 year old RFA has gotten say $5 mil in only his second contract?
Two come immediately to mind: Malkin ($8.7m/yr) and Phaneuf ($6.5m/yr).
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
4:21 pm
Alan, I’ll give you that it is an escalating contract, but as much as I like Bryan Little, he’s no Malkin or Phaneuf. If we don’t sign him this summer, I am not worried a bit.
Alan
July 22nd, 2009
4:27 pm
Nor am I. A preference to getting something done sooner isn’t akin to being worried about a future star of the team.
Would you rather sign him for $2.875m/yr now, or sign him for $4.5m-$5m/yr next summer? Consider that he put up 30 goals last season in only his second year (and first full year) in the NHL. If he continues as we (fans + Thrashers personnel) expect, he will be worth that much easily.
There’s no room for a “wait and see” approach from a managerial standpoint when you’re talking about a rising star like Little. RFA or UFA, you lock them up as soon as you can.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
4:37 pm
Alan, sorry but I would rather take a wait and see approach. I have seen lots of young guys seem like the next big thing only to flame out. I just don’t see his value skyrocketing as much as we all dream it would. And if it does, that means he’s scoring and we’re winning, so with that I would not mind paying him more. But man if we get saddled with a $5 mil contract that can’t be moved that could hamper us. Keep in mind that it wouldn’t start until 2010-11 and if he slumps this year that is going to get everyone wondering what the heck we are doing down here. Forgive me for being cautious especially when we don’t have much room under a self-imposed cap to begin with.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
4:41 pm
Alan, you are also assuming that he would sign a contract right now worth $2.875 mil. If he thinks he can skyrocket as much as you think he can skyrocket, why would he sign for that much now?
Alan
July 22nd, 2009
4:42 pm
I’m of the mind that I’d rather buy something at its introductory price than wait for the sale to go off. Don’t want to get saddled with a $5m contract? Buy now and save!
R. Stroz
July 22nd, 2009
4:46 pm
Earl/Dog – Lehtonen received 3/million per year on his RFA renewal as well. Right now, I’d rather spend 3 million/year on Little, who busts his backside, than Lehtonen, wouldn’t you?
BTW, Enstrom earns an average of 3.75 million on his RFA contract, which starts at 3.00 million and increases each year by $500,000 until it reaches 4.5 million in the final year of the contract.
So, 3 million for Little is probably a steal.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
4:51 pm
R. Stroz, the Lehtonen and Enstrom ones are better examples. But then I would go back to my 4:41pm quote (you were probably typing). Why do we think we can sign Little to such a steal? Maybe he wants to wait until next summer when his value will go up. We always look at this as “what should mgt do” but also have to think “will the player + AGENT” do it too? Hopefully he doesn’t use the same guy Pavelec does.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
5:01 pm
R. Stroz, now that you mention Lehtonen and Enstrom, I am just thinking no way does Little sign for only about 1/2 mil more than Armstrong. I know it was a 1 year rush deal but still.
Smoothie
July 22nd, 2009
5:35 pm
If you’re Bryan Little and you know that you could potentially get more than $2.75 M or $3 M by signing a deal during this season, you also realize you could a) blow out your knee b) slump badly and not score 20 goals c) get traded at the deadline because the Kovy negotiations go sour. Money today is always worth more than later due to the time value of money so Little would be foolish to turn up his nose at a deal that avgs $3 M / year for 4 years. If he blows out his knee and misses 1/2 a season, he would end up getting a 5% raise off his current contract number of $900 K because he would then be deemed a greater risk. Just like Toby jumped at his extension deal, Bryan would be wise to jump at the chance to do the same as long as they don’t insult him with a $2 M / year offer.
Smoothie
July 22nd, 2009
5:39 pm
Wooops, my first sentence was terrible: I meant to say that even if Bryan knows his potential could be higher than a deal that would avg in the neighborhood of $2.75 – $3 M by waiting and seeing, the risks are there as much for the player as they are for the management.
R. Stroz
July 22nd, 2009
5:44 pm
Well Earl/Dog, it’s like asking a girl on a date, you have to ask to get an answer.
If I were Thrashers management, I’d make Little the same offer as Enstrom to close the deal early. Besides, the quantity of money always looks bigger when you’re younger. So 3 to 3.5 million/year locked in at 21 years of age carriers more weight than it does at 25.
Brendan
July 22nd, 2009
5:53 pm
I’d ask Little’s agent how long he’s willing to commit to Atlanta. Truthfully, I’d like to go long with the kid. In my view, I think his best years are clearly ahead of him. I’d be willing to go five or more years. If they’re asking $5 million-a-year, that’s rough. Not that Little can’t become this kind of major player, but I’d counter-argue that he hasn’t produced enough to be worth that. It’s one thing if an RFA offersheet came in next Summer at $5 million, then … we’ve got some thinking to do. At $5 million, that’s four 1st round picks as compensation back to the Thrashers. Someone double-check that, as I’ve forgotten where the RFA compensation breaks down these days. But I think it’s four first rounders.
But, in July 2009, I’d make an attractive offer of $3.9 million, each year, for the next five years. Guys who consistently score 30 or more goals will be worth this kind of money, and more. This is the chance to economize a bit. Not to mention showing him how VALUABLE and highly regarded he is by the organization. This is one way to improve “player retention.” Bryan Little and his agent won’t be offended by the offer. They may think they can do BETTER next July. And that’s their call. If Little scores 40 goals, or even 35, next year … he’s opening up a nice day at the pay window. It’s a gamble to sign him this early. Truly. It is. We’ve got inadequate sampling. But, it does speak to INTENT. What’s one of the most common things you hear from a holdout?
Anyone? Anyone at all?
It’s, “Man, I just wanted some recognition for the hard work I’d put in. I’m not trying to hold the organization hostage, demanding more than I’m worth. I just wanted to feel appreciated and recognized for what I’ve done here.” It could be a mistake to offer $3.9 million. He might never be worth it. And it becomes a cautionary tale. But it did send a message that, as an organization, “We draft our own players, and we TRY to lock up our own draft picks. And we do that PROACTIVELY. You can expect to have a career in Atlanta, if you want it.” I think that’s the RIGHT MESSAGE to be sending.
Alan
July 22nd, 2009
8:02 pm
For last season, Brendan, the compensation for $5m is a first, second, and third round draft pick. I don’t expect that to have changed, given the minuscule increase in the cap.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
9:32 pm
There are now 3 different responses so let me see if I can reply to them here -
R. Stroz, I don’t disagree here, ask the question. I don’t think Waddell and Dudley sit in their office all day playing World of Warcraft and for all we know they were blowing off Armstrong because they were hounding Little, who knows? That said I still think the issue is whether Little will sign for that $3.25 mil/year or is it smart for Waddudley to offer more.
Brendan, I think you laid it out as I see it. But your line where you say “I think his best years are clearly ahead of him” for a 21 year old has to be the understatement of the entire blog
The other 99.9% I am in lock-step with you. Send out the feelers now, make an offer when you can to be proactive, but be cautionary.
Smoothie, I have actually used that argument before of players signing before they get hurt. But in all honesty, I stopped using it because I can’t think of a real good example of a player taking a discount just so he can insure his future. Even Gaborik while doing his walking wounded impersonation still got a blockbuster deal. And when Enstrom signed last year, I thought it was a tad low but not a major hometown discount or anything cheap where you thought “gee, he must be taking the first offer that came his way.” Now if there are some other examples out there, by all means lay ‘em on me but I just can’t think of anyone signing for significantly less just so that they are insured from a major injury. Anyone who signs early before the deadline still gets good $$.
The ultimate question becomes, if you were Little’s agent, and you saw what Lehtonen, Enstrom and Armstrong got, would you let Little sign for say $3 mil/year (or some other similar amount) in July 09? I wouldn’t.
R. Stroz
July 22nd, 2009
10:23 pm
“R. Stroz, I don’t disagree here, ask the question. I don’t think Waddell and Dudley sit in their office all day playing World of Warcraft”
Earl/Dog – Based on their ages, lets hope they aren’t playing PONG all day either.
Smitty
July 22nd, 2009
10:38 pm
I hope DW and Dudley learn from the mistakes the Sabres made and the players learn from the Red Wings. I think you have to be proactive in regards to future UFS’a And RFA’s especially in regards to top 6 forwards and top 4 defensemen. I think Buffalo could have signed Drury, Briere and Campbell for quite a bit less if they had signed them mid-season as opposed to waiting until the end of the season. You need to lock up not only your superstars long term(4-5 years) but also guys like Little, Armstrong and even Kari. Injuries happen but you cannot hamsting your team thinking that someone might get hurt.
I know it is easy for me to say to Kovy why not sign for 90 million over 10 years as opposed to signing for 110 million over 11 years. However I think the message that is sent that if Kovy can settle for a little less why can’t everyone else. I know that is wishful thinking but it seems to work in DTW.
As we have learned here in ATL there are plenty of 3rd and 4th line guys available through free agency. Lock up your top guys ASAP.
World Be Free
July 22nd, 2009
10:50 pm
Agreed Smitty, get the Kovy done and make EVERYBODY feel better NOW!
Just don’t see who is going to give Kovy more money than what we are rumored to be offering. Regier was totally out to lunch when it came to locking up the right guys long term. He couldn’t get a used pck bag for Hecht, locking up a mediocre guy long term after he turns 30.
Mike Greier and Domomic Moore are still out there. They would be great depth players.
On another note, why would the Islanders sign Marty Biron? Now they have 3 starting goalies.
Earl of Bud, man that name sounds so muchg better than Ice Dog! I am proud of your selection.
Brendan
July 22nd, 2009
11:04 pm
Believe it or not, I found Pong on GameBoy/Nintendo DS! And there’s an “Atari TV Plug-in” game, that I’d bet also has Pong on it. Whenever I hear Pong mentioned, I have a scene from the Simpsons stuck to my brain. It had to be one of those Halloween Specials, since it was Kang and Kodos playing it. Someone says, “For such an advanced species, they’re still rather primitive at video games.” The Space Aliens get highly offended, snickering, “Will all the members of the species that has mastered Inter-Galactic Space Travel please raise their hands.” Kang and Kodos shoot their arms immediately skyward. Marge Simpson huffs, “Fine. Your game is very lovely.”
EOB, and yet … there appear to be posts made recently that indicate Bryan Little may be a fluke. The comments suggest he can’t replicate the season he just had. They don’t want to hand him the money too prematurely. If that were true, that last season was a fraud and an abberration, then Bryan Little’s “best years” are already BEHIND him. Well? I’m merely trying to clarify what I think is obvious … that Bryan Little will be a fine player for many years. I certainly wouldn’t want to lock up a player I thought was a fraud/waste, with a proactive RFA contract. Per Svartvadet would never have been on my proactive radar, for example.
Alan, when does the RFA compensation jump up to 4 first rounders? Is that $7 million? Or a figure lower than that? A 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round draft pick compensation might sound like a lot to some people, but if the poaching team were someone the caliber of a Conference Finalist, we’re talking about picks #27-30, then #57-60, and finally #87-90. Not a “can’t miss” pick in the bunch! At $5 million-per-year, the issue to ponder is … “by how much” is Little being overpaid. The answer, of course, would be dependent on Little’s 2009-10 production. I have wholly forgotten what Little’s numbers are in shootouts, but that could come into play, as well.
My take on Little is this. Wherever he’s been, people questioned him and second-guessed him, citing his stature. And wherever he’s been, he’s proved his critics wrong. The guy went 12th overall in his draft year (2006). Come to think of it, wasn’t that the exact same draft position as Marian Hossa, back in 1997? Hossa probably should have been drafted higher than that, but 12th is precisely where Little should have been drafted. It was a good job by Waddell. It was also a “consensus” type pick at #12. I just think it would speak well for the franchise to lock him up early, at a discount, longterm, to improve in the core area of “player retention.” Well … it sure beats watching them walk for nothing, or get traded out, or “salvaged for whatever we could get.”
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
11:40 pm
“Earl/Dog – Based on their ages, lets hope they aren’t playing PONG all day either.”
R. Stroz, Waddell was a teen for the ‘80 Olympic team, so they may have Brendan’s Atari 2600 plug-in. Not Donkey Kong but something like Combat.
“Earl of Bud, man that name sounds so muchg better than Ice Dog! I am proud of your selection.
World Be Free, if I am going to be the Earl of Bud, you have to come up with something a little more creative yourself. I mean I’m not asking you to change your sign on to “Irv Weinstein” but something we can all catch. Same goes for Smitty, Table Hockey, Spud Webb and the rest of the crew from the aud club. For Paminski I suggest “Cheekta-warsaw” or “Broadway Market”. Even my Babci would laugh at that.
“EOB, and yet … there appear to be posts made recently that indicate Bryan Little may be a fluke.”
Brendan, we have to be fair here. Although technically not a rookie, it was his first full season last year. And the term “sophomore slump” exists for a reason.
Brendan
July 23rd, 2009
12:02 am
Yes, it does exist for a reason, EOB. But if Atlanta went long with B. Little, what’s one little ’sophomore slump’ in the big picture, if the guy averages 28-33 goals a year?
World Be Free, I am very puzzled by this Biron signing, by the Islanders. I wonder if part of the reason Biron signed on with NY was to be able to get back at the Flyers, as a division rival? So, the Flyers have Ray “Headcase” Emery and who else?? Do you think they’d put vanRiemsdyk for Lehtonen back on the table? It’s a pair of 2nd overall picks being swapped out, if it happens. That would mean Pavelec is our starter, with Moose as backup, unless DWad thinks there’s another goalie out there, in free agency, still un-signed, that’s worth having.
Did we ever find out what the deal was with vanRiemsdyk, and why the Flyers would even consider trading him so soon? Personally, I don’t see that trade as coming to fruition. Maybe Waddell might say, “We’ll do it for Pavelec.” But, I still don’t like that. I don’t think we should trade any goalie, unless it’s Moose.
Smoothie
July 23rd, 2009
12:33 am
Earl of Ice Dogs who drink Bud, Brendan, Alan and WBF — I’m not taking any hard-line stances here. Earlier I was just trying to list various factors that would go into dtermining his FMV after only one productive season.
My advice, if I were an agent for BL, would be: “son, in these uncertain times, don’t haggle over a couple hundred thousand $ when money now is worth more than money later.”
Also, if u truly want to be part of a winner, sometimes u have to give up a little cash to achieve other goals like a competitive team and a chance at a championship.
Like EOB said above, career ending injuries are rather uncommon so using that reasoning, u could say “don’t worry if u give up a little now cuz the money will come later as the team and you are successful, and u become a UFA.”
Lastly, and most importantly to me, I think it is important for the future of the franchise to make a statement by working during the season, or even later this summer, to lock up Little, Army and even Pevs (if he continues to play at a high level) to extensions rather than risk goodwill later by taking the chance that the draft, FA and other events interfere (see Army’s wedding) with the duration and attn to detail needed for effective and fair negotiations.
IOW, don’t take the chance of pissing off the player when there is a higher chance other things will get in the way after a contract expires. I can understand not re-doing UFA contracts till the last year or at expiration, but neglecting RFA’s by waiting til the offseason just becuz it is so hard for them to leave is bad business IMO.
Hockey Biltong
July 23rd, 2009
12:43 am
AHHH, what’s in a name???
World Be Free
July 23rd, 2009
8:10 am
Brendan, the only thing I can think of with Biron is to use him as trade bait later ion the year when some year may be looking for an experienced goalie. That may seem like a reach, but you know Garth Snow, he loves to stockpile draft picks. Paying a guy $1.4M for a good pick (maybe a 3rd) is not a bad trade. DiPietro’s wonky body is also in question as usual, so the folks on Lon-Gisland may also be looking for a goalie combination to stay competitive while Rick heals, again. Sabres fans’ were pissed because Biron could have been had cheaply and he’s a better backup that Lalime.
Smoothie-times being what they are, if I am a player getting offered good money, I would take it. Dominic Moore had a nice 3 year offer from Toronto this year for I think $8-9M and he turned it down. Now he’s unemployed ½ way through the summer. Kovy and Little should take the money when it’s on the table, assuming it is out there or will be out there soon.
I don’t know what the deal is with vanRiemsdyk. Some scouts were not high on high last year, to the point that they did not think he was worthy of the 2nd overall pick. I know Philly was desperate to move salary this year to try and pickup a prime free agent. The thought was dangling vanRiemsdyk out there for someone to take Briere off their hands. It seems like that has all died down now that they have paid a King’s ransom for Pronger.
I like Pronger, but I think Philly gave up too much. But he fits the Flyers like a glove, their kind of player.
Sage is quiet-is there another eruption coming soon?
Alan
July 23rd, 2009
9:35 am
Earl of Ice Dogs who drink Bud, Brendan, Alan and WBF — I’m not taking any hard-line stances here. Earlier I was just trying to list various factors that would go into dtermining his FMV after only one productive season.
Que? How’d my name get dragged into this? :\
All I was saying is that we should lock the kid up. The sooner, the better. The organization should start proving to players that we want them here, and what better way to do so than to offer our quality players extensions before their contracts are up?
Pam on Weck
July 23rd, 2009
10:03 am
EOB – Is Pam on Weck acceptable since I’m not actually Polish? LOL
Smoothie
July 23rd, 2009
10:12 am
WBF – indeed the signing of Biron is a bit odd, but it may be insurance against DiPietro’s health issues. He may not be ready to start the year in time…what did he do again, injure his knee?
As for players with delusion of grandeur, we are seeing what happens to middling players with agents who help to over-inflate their sense of self worth. Wasn’t Dom Moore coming off a lackluster year? $3 M / year seems more than fair for a 3rd liner with 2nd line potential.
Lastly, on JVR, let’s just say that I think a guy by the name of Carl Klingberg should make us forget about wanting a propsect from Philly in exchange for our goalie. If they want Kari Lehtonen, they better be ready to give up a roster player like Giroux and a high draft pick.
Smoothie
July 23rd, 2009
10:21 am
Alan, I was simply addressing those who were involved in the discussion. Not a big deal at all. I’m not trying to call anyone out or refute any arguments. It’s a good discussion and I’m including you since you seem to be an interested party. No worries.
Alan
July 23rd, 2009
10:26 am
Phew. Okay.
Some mornings, I don’t have enough coffee. Maybe I’ve had too much this morning?
Smoothie
July 23rd, 2009
10:30 am
Ha ha, I hear ya man. I KNOW I haven’t had enough this morning. But then again, I should try to get more sleep rather than type posts on a blog / msg board at 12:23 am!!
Can we just start the damn season already? To hell with summer!
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 23rd, 2009
10:31 am
Pam on Weck, now that’s cracking me up. Can someone tell me how to do website links? It seems there’s a Buffalo story about the blog’s own World Be Free but I don’t know how to link it here. Here’s the address if you want to cut & paste – http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/741646.html
Smoothie, I see the Biron signing as insurance also.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 23rd, 2009
10:32 am
Oh, look’s like it just linked it anyway. My bad. Enjoy the update on World Be Free and what he was up to on his latest trip home.
Sam
July 23rd, 2009
10:46 am
rawhide, i love your blogs and i think this one was excellent! very smart one too! but im a little conscerned about the thrashers this year. i am a die hard hockey fan no matter what but i don’t know if i can take another suckish season! we really haven’t signed too many good players, not to say that we won’t, just that we really should do something. it would be great if hossa was out for the season!! i am not the biggest fan of hossa anymore. there’s just somethin about him. wat place do u think the thrashers will come in the conference rawhide?
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 23rd, 2009
10:55 am
Sam, I think for the first time in our franchise’s history we have 6 top-6 forwards, 4 top-4 defensemen and at least 1 legitimate starting goalie. That would be:
Kov-Pev-Ant
Koz-Wht-Lit
Bog-Ens
Han-Kub
Leht/Pav
Who do you think doesn’t belong in that list that would have you worried?
Rawhide
July 23rd, 2009
10:57 am
Sam – Thank you very much indeed. Now…as for any prediction about how the Thrashers will do this season, I think it’s a bit premature to engage in that activity. Let me see how the players look during training camp and who actually makes the roster…plus we don’t know if there another trade in the works.
That being said, I think the team is better than the one that ended last season. Kubina for XLB…upgrade. Antropov occupying the roster spot that once belonged to Perrin…upgrade.
Brendan
July 23rd, 2009
11:07 am
Perrin hasn’t been signed by anyone yet, right?
Brendan
July 23rd, 2009
11:09 am
Rawhide, does Hossa’s salary come off Chicago’s cap this season, if they put him on longterm IR? Is that the same deal with DiPietro, on Long Island?
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 23rd, 2009
11:13 am
Brendan, wouldn’t he have to sit out a number of games first before that option became available? At which point either you can’t sign someone with that cap space because they are still counting against the cap and then once you put him on it you can’t take him off for a period of time which if he gets healthy (i.e. Dipietro) you in essense lost him.
Think back when we were going through this with Rucchin. It’s not a quicky process to put someone on LTIR. I don’t think they would do that with Hossa.
Rawhide
July 23rd, 2009
11:16 am
Brendan – Perrin has not been signed yet to my knowledge. As for Hossa…I believe that depends on how long he is actually out. I’d have to do more research on that.
Alan
July 23rd, 2009
11:41 am
Yesterday, a Chicago paper reported that Hossa injured his shoulder during the playoffs. However, Detroit GM Kenny Holland says that story isn’t true.
“He was hurt before he got to us,” Holland said. “Our doctors looked at him and we had conversations about whether to have surgery. Our doctors recommended he should have something done at some point but it’s something he can play with.”
World Be Free
July 23rd, 2009
12:14 pm
Sam, I agree but I also remember last year when Tampa Bay traded and signed a bunch of new guys. That did not work out too well for them. I think quality acquisitions are most important. I hope we have one more name in our future.
In addition to this, I have no idea why BArry Melrose would give up his cushy job at ESPN to return to coaching the sorry Lightning. He’s lucky he was able to get his job back. He and Barnaby make a great team.
We have all had enough of seeing the Thrashers make their off season place in February. Let’s hope the blog this year is all about how we can compete for the division and hopefully bring home a playoff spot without mortgaging our future-again.
Pam – the name is great as long as we are talking Charlie the Butcher, Anderson’s Anchor Bar or Schwable’s Beef on Wick.
Perrin is still available
World Be Free
July 23rd, 2009
12:35 pm
Earl of Bud-OK, I will take into consideration changing my name to something more retro to our origins. I selected World Be Free in honor of one of my favorite NBA payers from the 70’s. I have no favorite NBA players today, so a new name is in order. More to come…..
I must also confess that I am also Ice Meister. This name is now retired.
Alan-never sit down at the blog with coffee, wine or beer (depending on where you are at the time).
What ever happened to Rucchin?
This stuff about Hossa is comical. Now we have a potential pissing contest between Detroit and Chicago over the origin of his injury and who knew about it. Ay those tier 1 free agents, why I always liked tier 2 instead.
Another question, has anyone heard any good rumors about San Jose aside from them possibly picking up Dany Scumbag? That’s all they need, another selfish slug who totally lack leadership. I thought they would have made a trade or 2 by now.
Brendan
July 23rd, 2009
12:53 pm
I remember all kinds of speculation on the Fan blog, under David Vecsey’s watch, that “Hossa refused to drop his shoulder and drive to the net,” allegedly, supposedly because he was trying not to be injured before hitting the open market in July 2008. Some posters suggested Hossa was nursing a shoulder injury, and that it was hampering his point production for Atlanta in the 2008 season.
That’s a whole lot of speculation, mind you. But I do recall those discussions taking place here. Others labeled Hossa a “quitter,” who wouldn’t try as hard as before. If it turns out that Hossa has been playing hurt all that time, it would explain some things. But I would have thought Pittsburgh’s doctors would take note of it, if he were hurt while with the Penguins. Hossa’s 2008 playoff numbers were very good. Better than a point a game, if I recall correctly. Maybe Hossa was thinking, “I gotta get to Detroit. Forget the surgery. I’ll go for the Cup with the Red Wings in 2009. And after the season, I’ll have the surgery after I get my contract.”
Rawhide
July 23rd, 2009
1:29 pm
Sam – I think maybe this will serve as a more detailed answer to the question you asked me earlier.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 23rd, 2009
1:38 pm
World Be Free, I want to see what you come up with but I gotta admit, seeing “Charlie the Butcher” just made me crack up and is quite fitting for you. Even “Anchor Bar” would crack a lot of folks up. I think Rucchin just retired after we finally put him on LTIR.
Brendan, who is David Vecsey, is that PV’s son? Does he do hockey? Anyway, what was the general feel about Hossa before we traded him around here? Some folks I talked to would whisper the “he’s afraid to get hurt” lines because he didn’t drive hard on a ton of plays but we treated them like they were conspiracy theories, nothing legit. But now that you say it like this, it is interesting.
World Be Free
July 23rd, 2009
1:52 pm
Earl-those names are good, but too obvious. We have to dip into the archives.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 23rd, 2009
1:56 pm
World Be Free, I can’t wait to see what you bring out of the archives.
Brendan
July 23rd, 2009
2:20 pm
Vecsey was the fan blogger between “Ice Princess” and “Rawhide.”
FormerIslesFan
July 23rd, 2009
2:47 pm
Just my $.02 on some things being discussed. No new, great revelations here.
On Hossa: You know, I distinctly remember back when Hossa was finishing up his tour of duty in Atlanta making comments to my wife that he was not dropping his shoulder and driving to the net as he had done the previous year during the playoff run. I certainly was not the only one making that observation as it was well documented in the blogs of the time. However, I am not sure off my head which shoulder is now being revealed as injured. I know that he is a left-handed shot. I would expect that to mean that he would usually drop his left shoulder (especially if coming down the RW, as was his position) when driving the net. Does anyone know if it is his left shoulder that is injured?
Does that mean that he was hurt then? By no means. However, it’s an interesting fact to note, nonetheless.
On the Isles’ goalie logjam: Okay, Being the FIF that I am, this one raised my eyebrow when I saw it. The ony thing I can think is that DP was/is FAR more injured/slower into recovery than anyone has let on and won’t be back any time soon (re: before January 2010). As I recall from the all-star game in Atlanta, DP made the comment about pulling his “f*cking hip” (ergo, it was not a knee injury). My guess: pretty much what people have said: Biron and Rollie will be the tandom on the Island until DP comes back and then the Isles will look to trade whichever of them they can get better value for (Rollie is a 2yr contract, Biron is a 1 yr, I believe).
World Be Free
July 23rd, 2009
8:47 pm
Ise fan, if Marty and Rollie are your goalies, than you are doing pretty good. In my opinion, you have upgraded the most important position over last year.