Dan Kamal Gives Voice To Thrasherville, Pt. II
When I caught up with Dan last week during the Thrashers prospect camp, he was keeping an eye one particular player of interest…his son Chris Kamal, a goalie. I asked him how Chris was playing and how his recovery was coming along. “I’m very proud of the way that he has reacted to the adversity”, said Kamal. “He had come off a very strong year in his first season in junior hockey…and was looking forward to his second year when he had a freak off-ice injury and suffered a complicated break of his tibia and fibula…and it cost him the whole ‘08-’09 season”.
But, according to the senior Kamal, he’s been up to playing speed since February and is in “the best shape of his life and playing the best hockey of his life…but now he needs to catch a break” in trying to land a position on a junior hockey team.
And as would be expected, as we discussed his son and the other prospects out on the ice, the topic turned toward the Thrashers’ future. Like Chris, the Thrashers have had to go through some adversities of their own over the past couple of years, escpecially since that single foray into the postseason.
And again, Kamal has seen it go from the highs of those two playoff games in Atlanta…to the lows of the way things went in the following season and the beginning of last year…..to the improved play of last spring. He believes the team can get back to where it was just a few short seasons ago.
“Those two games here for the playoffs were beyond my expectations…and it can get back to that. I look at this as a fabulous hockey town. I really think Atlanta is a great hockey town just waiting to erupt when this team…which I believe has turned a major corner… starts to become a perennial playoff contender”.
“But I think what people don’t remember is that it’s hard to win in pro sports. I mean, Buffalo Sabres…no Stanley Cup. Vancouver Canucks…no Stanley Cup. They’ve been around for decades. So, I think the thing you want to do as a franchise is build a foundation…which is not so easy in a salary cap era…build a foundation for you to be a perennial playoff contender. And then you have to hope for health…for your best players to be your best players…maybe get lucky with a guy who you don’t expect to have a career year to do so and maybe make a few tweaks along the way and go from there”.
And about the two disappointing seasons since then?
“For me to see a franchise that’s this young to have had some setbacks…I don’t think that’s abnormal”.
OK, but what of certain self-induced set backs…like, say, the Zhitnik/Coburn deal?
“There was the playoff run, and then the lull in January, and then the trade of Coburn for Zhitnik…and I know a lot of people say ‘Oh you traded Coburn for Zhitnik’, but he played very well [after the trade]. Zhitnik helped the team get back on course for that playoff run. Had the Thrashers been able to win a round or win some games against the Rangers, certainly that trade would have been looked upon more favorably”.
Fair enough, Dan…but what about where the team is now?
“To me what’s very encouraging is the direction the team is going now. It’s a young team… a young foundation, and I think it’s moving forward. It’s clear there is some talent in this franchise and [they are] going to become real impact players. When you’re adding guys like Zach Bogosian and Evander Kane, when you have young guys like Bryan Little and the way he impacted the way he did in his first full year …and Colby Armstrong with his leadership skills …and Toby Enstrom…your starting to get good young ‘faces’ to this franchise that are going to be instrumental in getting this team where it needs to go”.
We then began discussing some of the “faces” that make up today’s Thrashers organization…players such as Bryan Little who he decribed as, “Quiet…tough…surprisingly productive. Gives you that versatility to play either on the wing or center…learned how to score goals in tough areas”.
And what do you think of Zach Bogosian’s potential? ”How high is the ceiling [as far as his potential]…you may not be able to see the ceiling…that good. And to think he just turned 19″.
Of Rich Peverley, Kamal said, ”What a find. Just another example of when some guys get a chance to showcase their skills in an area where they’re given the opportunity and the coach shows confidence in them. It’s much like life…timing and opportunity”.
Now, could the same be said about the newly acquired Anthony Stewart? “Yes, could be…big guy, former first rounder…ya know what comes first, the minutes or the production”?
Kari Lehtonen… “When he’s on his game, I think he’s one of the top-five talents in the NHL…down low, as good as there is. When he develops consistency both in terms of health and his game. I think he’s gonna be one of the best”.
Of course, the position of goaltending will always be one that draws a lot of criticism from fans…he’s the guy that “let in” the goal. Is that harsh?
“Goalies ya know…yeah rebound control is a big thing but they’re human beings. They can’t control every rebound every time. You don’t notice it when they don’t control a rebound and a defender comes in and conveniently sweeps it away”.
“When I was growing up in this sport, the old adage was ‘well, goalies don’t really get it until they’re 25, 26 or 27′…well, Kari’s 25. So it’s a younger man’s game now so everyone kinda expects goalies to ‘get it’ when they’re 21, 22, 23…[but] I think having shown patience with Kari will prove to have been a good thing”.
Now we add to that mix a couple of, what I believe to be, very good pick ups. One being Pavel Kubina. ”I did a demo tape for the Thrashers back in 1998 down in Tampa…Tampa versus Florida…Pavel Kubina was playing for Tampa. I’ve like him since that day. His big, he’s got enough snarle to him…mobile…he’s got a great shot, gives you flexibility on the power play…he’s only 32-years old…big pickup”.
And Nik Antropov? “All I need to know about him…other then he’s 6-6, 240-ish…is that he and Kovalchuk played real well together in the World Championship. I’m very much looking forward to that continuing here”.
Of course, no discussion of Atlanta’s lineup would be complete if Ilya Kovalchuk wasn’t included… ”I think he’s as dynamic a player that there is in the NHL. Certainly Alex Ovechkin getting more attention, and deservedly so…but when Kovy has the puck I lean forward… and I have an inkling that 17,000 others are following suit. If he make you pay more attention or makes you move physically when he has the puck, and Kovalchuk does that for me, to me that’s the biggest complement you can pay a guy”.
And of John Anderson’s first season as an NHL head coach, Kamal said, ”I think John Anderson stayed true to what he wanted to do with this team. It was a learning curve, I’m sure, for him and the players. It maybe took a little bit longer than players and coach would have liked. But man, when it kicked in this team was tough to play against, exciting…I just wish the season had not ended in April. I’m looking for that to carry over on October 3″.
Ok, so there are some good players on the roster…what does the radio voice of Thrasherville make of the team’s chances going into the season?
“I think the team defense will be better…maybe a little less pressure on the goaltending. If Kari Lehtonen, if he’s the guy, or Pavelec or Moose Hedberg…if they come in and play there games and play them extremely well and you give this team reasonably good health and solid goaltending, I think a a playoff push in my mind would be an expectation”.
During summertime, outside of certain broadcast “housekeeping” chores, Kamal fills his offseason time by “doing as many public appearances as the team needs”. Whether it’s a social appearance or charitable event, he’s more than happy to assist. Living here year-round he thinks is very important to talk hockey. “Not only to the folks who are not yet fans…certainly you want to earn their business…but also to people who are fans. To just maintain that connection and maintain that passion”.
“It’s kind of a two fold thing…the fans give me passion for the game and I try to give it back”.
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160 comments Add your comment
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
2:33 pm
Alan, I’ll ask you what I asked Brendan. What would you sign him for in September?
World Be Free, I love Ted’s.
h
July 22nd, 2009
2:36 pm
If they pay Kovy more than $9M a year they are nuts. Anything more really straps the team under the cap…especially this team and the way they try to stay a well under the cap. If Kovy wants to win, he won’t ask for more than $9M (Ovie, Crotchby, Malkin dollars)……I guess we could stomach….11 years $100M (so approx 9.1M). With Little and Peverley coming up, we’ll need the extra cash. I think those two along with getting Colby signed to a 2-3 year extension (after this year) is the next priority after Kovy…..keep in mind you’ll probably need to have a little extra to pay for a goalie next year, whether it be Kari or someone else. Seems like you need between $4M-$6M total for two decent goalies. We’re on the bottom of that right now.
R. Stroz
July 22nd, 2009
2:55 pm
Earl/Dog – Off with your head!
Paminski
July 22nd, 2009
3:15 pm
World Be Free – Loganberry….droooooool
Alan
July 22nd, 2009
3:17 pm
Little is making $850k right now, off his rookie contract. Personally, I would sign Little to a deal that will start at $2.5m and end up at somewhere between $3.25m and $3.5m. Make it a four year deal or so. He will go for a lot more at the end of this coming season. Once the season starts, I doubt Little nor his agent will want to talk contract until after the season ends.
Remember, folks. Internal cap. The league cap is meaningless when it comes to the Thrashers, as ours is lower.
Get it done early, and get a discount. It’s that simple.
Smoothie
July 22nd, 2009
3:22 pm
Alan, right on! I would love to get Little locked up as early as possible and I like the length and terms of your proposed contract. $3 M cap hit seems quite reasonable to me. There is always inherent risk when signing a young guy who has only had one big year, but I’d rather take that risk on a guy like Little who has been busting his a$$ every since he stepped foot on Blueland ice. With his work ethic, he will continue to improve and should be good for 20-25 goals per year at the least. Not to mention he seems to be rounding into a very solid 2-way player who can play any forward position.
World Be Free
July 22nd, 2009
3:33 pm
Yeah, Loganberry!
We are going to have some interesting discussions on how much Kovy is worth. I say pay him the $9M, cause losing him would cost alot more in the state of the franchise. Management cannot afford to conitnue to lose key players.
Nobody is truly worth that much dough. But he’s going to get it and do not be surprised if the number goes to $10M.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
3:42 pm
Alan, if we sign Little in September at $3.5 mil, how much do you think he would go for in June? I mean even if he goes to arbitration as a RFA, what other 21-22 year old RFA has gotten say $5 mil in only his second contract?
In one sense I agree and obviously want Little signed ASAP, if nothing else to show that we are going to keep our talent. But he is a RFA and I just can’t see him getting that much more than $3.5 mil next June. I hate to say it but what if he bombs this year and we are on the hook? The amount that it will go up if he plays balls out is not that much more versus than what we sign him for and then he blows a tire. All the risk is on us then and that’s not what the Spirit or Waddudley wants. Let’s see how he starts out as Paminski says and go from there.
R. Stroz
July 22nd, 2009
4:01 pm
I’d rather lock Little up early at 3 to 3.25 million than risk an offer sheet from some buttwipe such as Lowe next summer.
Versteeg and Barker kind of set the rate for high talent level RFA renewal contracts at 3 million/year.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
4:13 pm
R. Stroz, I think Versteeg and Barker are bad examples of what the rate is. Because they never received their RFA offer sheets (which was the nail in Dale Tallon’s coffin) they would have become unrestricted free agents. But that was prevented by them getting signed quickly. Everyone was aware that they would have hit the open market, so they would have had to in essence sign deals with that in mind, thus something above market rate. The fact that Chicago paid more for them was part of the reason used to fire Tallon.
Besides, they only signed for 3 to 3.25 mil/year with the fact that they could be unrestricted. Why then would we worry about Little getting much more than 3.5 mil being completely restricted if the standard is only 3 to 3.25 for a potential unrestricted?
Also we can always sign Little next May/June before Lowe has the opportunity to even make an offer. Lowe hasn’t done any RFA offers since Penner and I think he learned his lesson on that mistake.
Alan
July 22nd, 2009
4:14 pm
You, ah, misread what I said. Under my proposal, his contract would start at $2.5m and end somewhere around $3.25m or $3.5m over a four year period. For the sake of argument, let’s put it like this:
Little signs a four year deal, paying him $2.5 his first year, $2.75 his second year, $3 his third year, and $3.25 his fourth year. His cap hit would be $2.875m over that four year period. If he continues to develop as he has, this would be considered a steal for a player of his caliber.
Every player goes through a slump every so often, but Little would be worth every penny of this proposal. He goes out on the ice, day in and day out, and works hard. He never takes a night off, and even if he doesn’t score, you can tell when he’s on the ice.
I mean even if he goes to arbitration as a RFA, what other 21-22 year old RFA has gotten say $5 mil in only his second contract?
Two come immediately to mind: Malkin ($8.7m/yr) and Phaneuf ($6.5m/yr).
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
4:21 pm
Alan, I’ll give you that it is an escalating contract, but as much as I like Bryan Little, he’s no Malkin or Phaneuf. If we don’t sign him this summer, I am not worried a bit.
Alan
July 22nd, 2009
4:27 pm
Nor am I. A preference to getting something done sooner isn’t akin to being worried about a future star of the team.
Would you rather sign him for $2.875m/yr now, or sign him for $4.5m-$5m/yr next summer? Consider that he put up 30 goals last season in only his second year (and first full year) in the NHL. If he continues as we (fans + Thrashers personnel) expect, he will be worth that much easily.
There’s no room for a “wait and see” approach from a managerial standpoint when you’re talking about a rising star like Little. RFA or UFA, you lock them up as soon as you can.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
4:37 pm
Alan, sorry but I would rather take a wait and see approach. I have seen lots of young guys seem like the next big thing only to flame out. I just don’t see his value skyrocketing as much as we all dream it would. And if it does, that means he’s scoring and we’re winning, so with that I would not mind paying him more. But man if we get saddled with a $5 mil contract that can’t be moved that could hamper us. Keep in mind that it wouldn’t start until 2010-11 and if he slumps this year that is going to get everyone wondering what the heck we are doing down here. Forgive me for being cautious especially when we don’t have much room under a self-imposed cap to begin with.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
4:41 pm
Alan, you are also assuming that he would sign a contract right now worth $2.875 mil. If he thinks he can skyrocket as much as you think he can skyrocket, why would he sign for that much now?
Alan
July 22nd, 2009
4:42 pm
I’m of the mind that I’d rather buy something at its introductory price than wait for the sale to go off. Don’t want to get saddled with a $5m contract? Buy now and save!
R. Stroz
July 22nd, 2009
4:46 pm
Earl/Dog – Lehtonen received 3/million per year on his RFA renewal as well. Right now, I’d rather spend 3 million/year on Little, who busts his backside, than Lehtonen, wouldn’t you?
BTW, Enstrom earns an average of 3.75 million on his RFA contract, which starts at 3.00 million and increases each year by $500,000 until it reaches 4.5 million in the final year of the contract.
So, 3 million for Little is probably a steal.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
4:51 pm
R. Stroz, the Lehtonen and Enstrom ones are better examples. But then I would go back to my 4:41pm quote (you were probably typing). Why do we think we can sign Little to such a steal? Maybe he wants to wait until next summer when his value will go up. We always look at this as “what should mgt do” but also have to think “will the player + AGENT” do it too? Hopefully he doesn’t use the same guy Pavelec does.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
5:01 pm
R. Stroz, now that you mention Lehtonen and Enstrom, I am just thinking no way does Little sign for only about 1/2 mil more than Armstrong. I know it was a 1 year rush deal but still.
Smoothie
July 22nd, 2009
5:35 pm
If you’re Bryan Little and you know that you could potentially get more than $2.75 M or $3 M by signing a deal during this season, you also realize you could a) blow out your knee b) slump badly and not score 20 goals c) get traded at the deadline because the Kovy negotiations go sour. Money today is always worth more than later due to the time value of money so Little would be foolish to turn up his nose at a deal that avgs $3 M / year for 4 years. If he blows out his knee and misses 1/2 a season, he would end up getting a 5% raise off his current contract number of $900 K because he would then be deemed a greater risk. Just like Toby jumped at his extension deal, Bryan would be wise to jump at the chance to do the same as long as they don’t insult him with a $2 M / year offer.
Smoothie
July 22nd, 2009
5:39 pm
Wooops, my first sentence was terrible: I meant to say that even if Bryan knows his potential could be higher than a deal that would avg in the neighborhood of $2.75 – $3 M by waiting and seeing, the risks are there as much for the player as they are for the management.
R. Stroz
July 22nd, 2009
5:44 pm
Well Earl/Dog, it’s like asking a girl on a date, you have to ask to get an answer.
If I were Thrashers management, I’d make Little the same offer as Enstrom to close the deal early. Besides, the quantity of money always looks bigger when you’re younger. So 3 to 3.5 million/year locked in at 21 years of age carriers more weight than it does at 25.
Brendan
July 22nd, 2009
5:53 pm
I’d ask Little’s agent how long he’s willing to commit to Atlanta. Truthfully, I’d like to go long with the kid. In my view, I think his best years are clearly ahead of him. I’d be willing to go five or more years. If they’re asking $5 million-a-year, that’s rough. Not that Little can’t become this kind of major player, but I’d counter-argue that he hasn’t produced enough to be worth that. It’s one thing if an RFA offersheet came in next Summer at $5 million, then … we’ve got some thinking to do. At $5 million, that’s four 1st round picks as compensation back to the Thrashers. Someone double-check that, as I’ve forgotten where the RFA compensation breaks down these days. But I think it’s four first rounders.
But, in July 2009, I’d make an attractive offer of $3.9 million, each year, for the next five years. Guys who consistently score 30 or more goals will be worth this kind of money, and more. This is the chance to economize a bit. Not to mention showing him how VALUABLE and highly regarded he is by the organization. This is one way to improve “player retention.” Bryan Little and his agent won’t be offended by the offer. They may think they can do BETTER next July. And that’s their call. If Little scores 40 goals, or even 35, next year … he’s opening up a nice day at the pay window. It’s a gamble to sign him this early. Truly. It is. We’ve got inadequate sampling. But, it does speak to INTENT. What’s one of the most common things you hear from a holdout?
Anyone? Anyone at all?
It’s, “Man, I just wanted some recognition for the hard work I’d put in. I’m not trying to hold the organization hostage, demanding more than I’m worth. I just wanted to feel appreciated and recognized for what I’ve done here.” It could be a mistake to offer $3.9 million. He might never be worth it. And it becomes a cautionary tale. But it did send a message that, as an organization, “We draft our own players, and we TRY to lock up our own draft picks. And we do that PROACTIVELY. You can expect to have a career in Atlanta, if you want it.” I think that’s the RIGHT MESSAGE to be sending.
Alan
July 22nd, 2009
8:02 pm
For last season, Brendan, the compensation for $5m is a first, second, and third round draft pick. I don’t expect that to have changed, given the minuscule increase in the cap.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
9:32 pm
There are now 3 different responses so let me see if I can reply to them here -
R. Stroz, I don’t disagree here, ask the question. I don’t think Waddell and Dudley sit in their office all day playing World of Warcraft and for all we know they were blowing off Armstrong because they were hounding Little, who knows? That said I still think the issue is whether Little will sign for that $3.25 mil/year or is it smart for Waddudley to offer more.
Brendan, I think you laid it out as I see it. But your line where you say “I think his best years are clearly ahead of him” for a 21 year old has to be the understatement of the entire blog
The other 99.9% I am in lock-step with you. Send out the feelers now, make an offer when you can to be proactive, but be cautionary.
Smoothie, I have actually used that argument before of players signing before they get hurt. But in all honesty, I stopped using it because I can’t think of a real good example of a player taking a discount just so he can insure his future. Even Gaborik while doing his walking wounded impersonation still got a blockbuster deal. And when Enstrom signed last year, I thought it was a tad low but not a major hometown discount or anything cheap where you thought “gee, he must be taking the first offer that came his way.” Now if there are some other examples out there, by all means lay ‘em on me but I just can’t think of anyone signing for significantly less just so that they are insured from a major injury. Anyone who signs early before the deadline still gets good $$.
The ultimate question becomes, if you were Little’s agent, and you saw what Lehtonen, Enstrom and Armstrong got, would you let Little sign for say $3 mil/year (or some other similar amount) in July 09? I wouldn’t.
R. Stroz
July 22nd, 2009
10:23 pm
“R. Stroz, I don’t disagree here, ask the question. I don’t think Waddell and Dudley sit in their office all day playing World of Warcraft”
Earl/Dog – Based on their ages, lets hope they aren’t playing PONG all day either.
Smitty
July 22nd, 2009
10:38 pm
I hope DW and Dudley learn from the mistakes the Sabres made and the players learn from the Red Wings. I think you have to be proactive in regards to future UFS’a And RFA’s especially in regards to top 6 forwards and top 4 defensemen. I think Buffalo could have signed Drury, Briere and Campbell for quite a bit less if they had signed them mid-season as opposed to waiting until the end of the season. You need to lock up not only your superstars long term(4-5 years) but also guys like Little, Armstrong and even Kari. Injuries happen but you cannot hamsting your team thinking that someone might get hurt.
I know it is easy for me to say to Kovy why not sign for 90 million over 10 years as opposed to signing for 110 million over 11 years. However I think the message that is sent that if Kovy can settle for a little less why can’t everyone else. I know that is wishful thinking but it seems to work in DTW.
As we have learned here in ATL there are plenty of 3rd and 4th line guys available through free agency. Lock up your top guys ASAP.
World Be Free
July 22nd, 2009
10:50 pm
Agreed Smitty, get the Kovy done and make EVERYBODY feel better NOW!
Just don’t see who is going to give Kovy more money than what we are rumored to be offering. Regier was totally out to lunch when it came to locking up the right guys long term. He couldn’t get a used pck bag for Hecht, locking up a mediocre guy long term after he turns 30.
Mike Greier and Domomic Moore are still out there. They would be great depth players.
On another note, why would the Islanders sign Marty Biron? Now they have 3 starting goalies.
Earl of Bud, man that name sounds so muchg better than Ice Dog! I am proud of your selection.
Brendan
July 22nd, 2009
11:04 pm
Believe it or not, I found Pong on GameBoy/Nintendo DS! And there’s an “Atari TV Plug-in” game, that I’d bet also has Pong on it. Whenever I hear Pong mentioned, I have a scene from the Simpsons stuck to my brain. It had to be one of those Halloween Specials, since it was Kang and Kodos playing it. Someone says, “For such an advanced species, they’re still rather primitive at video games.” The Space Aliens get highly offended, snickering, “Will all the members of the species that has mastered Inter-Galactic Space Travel please raise their hands.” Kang and Kodos shoot their arms immediately skyward. Marge Simpson huffs, “Fine. Your game is very lovely.”
EOB, and yet … there appear to be posts made recently that indicate Bryan Little may be a fluke. The comments suggest he can’t replicate the season he just had. They don’t want to hand him the money too prematurely. If that were true, that last season was a fraud and an abberration, then Bryan Little’s “best years” are already BEHIND him. Well? I’m merely trying to clarify what I think is obvious … that Bryan Little will be a fine player for many years. I certainly wouldn’t want to lock up a player I thought was a fraud/waste, with a proactive RFA contract. Per Svartvadet would never have been on my proactive radar, for example.
Alan, when does the RFA compensation jump up to 4 first rounders? Is that $7 million? Or a figure lower than that? A 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round draft pick compensation might sound like a lot to some people, but if the poaching team were someone the caliber of a Conference Finalist, we’re talking about picks #27-30, then #57-60, and finally #87-90. Not a “can’t miss” pick in the bunch! At $5 million-per-year, the issue to ponder is … “by how much” is Little being overpaid. The answer, of course, would be dependent on Little’s 2009-10 production. I have wholly forgotten what Little’s numbers are in shootouts, but that could come into play, as well.
My take on Little is this. Wherever he’s been, people questioned him and second-guessed him, citing his stature. And wherever he’s been, he’s proved his critics wrong. The guy went 12th overall in his draft year (2006). Come to think of it, wasn’t that the exact same draft position as Marian Hossa, back in 1997? Hossa probably should have been drafted higher than that, but 12th is precisely where Little should have been drafted. It was a good job by Waddell. It was also a “consensus” type pick at #12. I just think it would speak well for the franchise to lock him up early, at a discount, longterm, to improve in the core area of “player retention.” Well … it sure beats watching them walk for nothing, or get traded out, or “salvaged for whatever we could get.”
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 22nd, 2009
11:40 pm
“Earl/Dog – Based on their ages, lets hope they aren’t playing PONG all day either.”
R. Stroz, Waddell was a teen for the ‘80 Olympic team, so they may have Brendan’s Atari 2600 plug-in. Not Donkey Kong but something like Combat.
“Earl of Bud, man that name sounds so muchg better than Ice Dog! I am proud of your selection.
World Be Free, if I am going to be the Earl of Bud, you have to come up with something a little more creative yourself. I mean I’m not asking you to change your sign on to “Irv Weinstein” but something we can all catch. Same goes for Smitty, Table Hockey, Spud Webb and the rest of the crew from the aud club. For Paminski I suggest “Cheekta-warsaw” or “Broadway Market”. Even my Babci would laugh at that.
“EOB, and yet … there appear to be posts made recently that indicate Bryan Little may be a fluke.”
Brendan, we have to be fair here. Although technically not a rookie, it was his first full season last year. And the term “sophomore slump” exists for a reason.
Brendan
July 23rd, 2009
12:02 am
Yes, it does exist for a reason, EOB. But if Atlanta went long with B. Little, what’s one little ’sophomore slump’ in the big picture, if the guy averages 28-33 goals a year?
World Be Free, I am very puzzled by this Biron signing, by the Islanders. I wonder if part of the reason Biron signed on with NY was to be able to get back at the Flyers, as a division rival? So, the Flyers have Ray “Headcase” Emery and who else?? Do you think they’d put vanRiemsdyk for Lehtonen back on the table? It’s a pair of 2nd overall picks being swapped out, if it happens. That would mean Pavelec is our starter, with Moose as backup, unless DWad thinks there’s another goalie out there, in free agency, still un-signed, that’s worth having.
Did we ever find out what the deal was with vanRiemsdyk, and why the Flyers would even consider trading him so soon? Personally, I don’t see that trade as coming to fruition. Maybe Waddell might say, “We’ll do it for Pavelec.” But, I still don’t like that. I don’t think we should trade any goalie, unless it’s Moose.
Smoothie
July 23rd, 2009
12:33 am
Earl of Ice Dogs who drink Bud, Brendan, Alan and WBF — I’m not taking any hard-line stances here. Earlier I was just trying to list various factors that would go into dtermining his FMV after only one productive season.
My advice, if I were an agent for BL, would be: “son, in these uncertain times, don’t haggle over a couple hundred thousand $ when money now is worth more than money later.”
Also, if u truly want to be part of a winner, sometimes u have to give up a little cash to achieve other goals like a competitive team and a chance at a championship.
Like EOB said above, career ending injuries are rather uncommon so using that reasoning, u could say “don’t worry if u give up a little now cuz the money will come later as the team and you are successful, and u become a UFA.”
Lastly, and most importantly to me, I think it is important for the future of the franchise to make a statement by working during the season, or even later this summer, to lock up Little, Army and even Pevs (if he continues to play at a high level) to extensions rather than risk goodwill later by taking the chance that the draft, FA and other events interfere (see Army’s wedding) with the duration and attn to detail needed for effective and fair negotiations.
IOW, don’t take the chance of pissing off the player when there is a higher chance other things will get in the way after a contract expires. I can understand not re-doing UFA contracts till the last year or at expiration, but neglecting RFA’s by waiting til the offseason just becuz it is so hard for them to leave is bad business IMO.
Hockey Biltong
July 23rd, 2009
12:43 am
AHHH, what’s in a name???
World Be Free
July 23rd, 2009
8:10 am
Brendan, the only thing I can think of with Biron is to use him as trade bait later ion the year when some year may be looking for an experienced goalie. That may seem like a reach, but you know Garth Snow, he loves to stockpile draft picks. Paying a guy $1.4M for a good pick (maybe a 3rd) is not a bad trade. DiPietro’s wonky body is also in question as usual, so the folks on Lon-Gisland may also be looking for a goalie combination to stay competitive while Rick heals, again. Sabres fans’ were pissed because Biron could have been had cheaply and he’s a better backup that Lalime.
Smoothie-times being what they are, if I am a player getting offered good money, I would take it. Dominic Moore had a nice 3 year offer from Toronto this year for I think $8-9M and he turned it down. Now he’s unemployed ½ way through the summer. Kovy and Little should take the money when it’s on the table, assuming it is out there or will be out there soon.
I don’t know what the deal is with vanRiemsdyk. Some scouts were not high on high last year, to the point that they did not think he was worthy of the 2nd overall pick. I know Philly was desperate to move salary this year to try and pickup a prime free agent. The thought was dangling vanRiemsdyk out there for someone to take Briere off their hands. It seems like that has all died down now that they have paid a King’s ransom for Pronger.
I like Pronger, but I think Philly gave up too much. But he fits the Flyers like a glove, their kind of player.
Sage is quiet-is there another eruption coming soon?
Alan
July 23rd, 2009
9:35 am
Earl of Ice Dogs who drink Bud, Brendan, Alan and WBF — I’m not taking any hard-line stances here. Earlier I was just trying to list various factors that would go into dtermining his FMV after only one productive season.
Que? How’d my name get dragged into this? :\
All I was saying is that we should lock the kid up. The sooner, the better. The organization should start proving to players that we want them here, and what better way to do so than to offer our quality players extensions before their contracts are up?
Pam on Weck
July 23rd, 2009
10:03 am
EOB – Is Pam on Weck acceptable since I’m not actually Polish? LOL
Smoothie
July 23rd, 2009
10:12 am
WBF – indeed the signing of Biron is a bit odd, but it may be insurance against DiPietro’s health issues. He may not be ready to start the year in time…what did he do again, injure his knee?
As for players with delusion of grandeur, we are seeing what happens to middling players with agents who help to over-inflate their sense of self worth. Wasn’t Dom Moore coming off a lackluster year? $3 M / year seems more than fair for a 3rd liner with 2nd line potential.
Lastly, on JVR, let’s just say that I think a guy by the name of Carl Klingberg should make us forget about wanting a propsect from Philly in exchange for our goalie. If they want Kari Lehtonen, they better be ready to give up a roster player like Giroux and a high draft pick.
Smoothie
July 23rd, 2009
10:21 am
Alan, I was simply addressing those who were involved in the discussion. Not a big deal at all. I’m not trying to call anyone out or refute any arguments. It’s a good discussion and I’m including you since you seem to be an interested party. No worries.
Alan
July 23rd, 2009
10:26 am
Phew. Okay.
Some mornings, I don’t have enough coffee. Maybe I’ve had too much this morning?
Smoothie
July 23rd, 2009
10:30 am
Ha ha, I hear ya man. I KNOW I haven’t had enough this morning. But then again, I should try to get more sleep rather than type posts on a blog / msg board at 12:23 am!!
Can we just start the damn season already? To hell with summer!
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 23rd, 2009
10:31 am
Pam on Weck, now that’s cracking me up. Can someone tell me how to do website links? It seems there’s a Buffalo story about the blog’s own World Be Free but I don’t know how to link it here. Here’s the address if you want to cut & paste – http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/741646.html
Smoothie, I see the Biron signing as insurance also.
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 23rd, 2009
10:32 am
Oh, look’s like it just linked it anyway. My bad. Enjoy the update on World Be Free and what he was up to on his latest trip home.
Sam
July 23rd, 2009
10:46 am
rawhide, i love your blogs and i think this one was excellent! very smart one too! but im a little conscerned about the thrashers this year. i am a die hard hockey fan no matter what but i don’t know if i can take another suckish season! we really haven’t signed too many good players, not to say that we won’t, just that we really should do something. it would be great if hossa was out for the season!! i am not the biggest fan of hossa anymore. there’s just somethin about him. wat place do u think the thrashers will come in the conference rawhide?
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 23rd, 2009
10:55 am
Sam, I think for the first time in our franchise’s history we have 6 top-6 forwards, 4 top-4 defensemen and at least 1 legitimate starting goalie. That would be:
Kov-Pev-Ant
Koz-Wht-Lit
Bog-Ens
Han-Kub
Leht/Pav
Who do you think doesn’t belong in that list that would have you worried?
Rawhide
July 23rd, 2009
10:57 am
Sam – Thank you very much indeed. Now…as for any prediction about how the Thrashers will do this season, I think it’s a bit premature to engage in that activity. Let me see how the players look during training camp and who actually makes the roster…plus we don’t know if there another trade in the works.
That being said, I think the team is better than the one that ended last season. Kubina for XLB…upgrade. Antropov occupying the roster spot that once belonged to Perrin…upgrade.
Brendan
July 23rd, 2009
11:07 am
Perrin hasn’t been signed by anyone yet, right?
Brendan
July 23rd, 2009
11:09 am
Rawhide, does Hossa’s salary come off Chicago’s cap this season, if they put him on longterm IR? Is that the same deal with DiPietro, on Long Island?
The Earl of Bud (formerly Ice Dog)
July 23rd, 2009
11:13 am
Brendan, wouldn’t he have to sit out a number of games first before that option became available? At which point either you can’t sign someone with that cap space because they are still counting against the cap and then once you put him on it you can’t take him off for a period of time which if he gets healthy (i.e. Dipietro) you in essense lost him.
Think back when we were going through this with Rucchin. It’s not a quicky process to put someone on LTIR. I don’t think they would do that with Hossa.
Rawhide
July 23rd, 2009
11:16 am
Brendan – Perrin has not been signed yet to my knowledge. As for Hossa…I believe that depends on how long he is actually out. I’d have to do more research on that.
Alan
July 23rd, 2009
11:41 am
Yesterday, a Chicago paper reported that Hossa injured his shoulder during the playoffs. However, Detroit GM Kenny Holland says that story isn’t true.
“He was hurt before he got to us,” Holland said. “Our doctors looked at him and we had conversations about whether to have surgery. Our doctors recommended he should have something done at some point but it’s something he can play with.”