Considering Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson
Since the draft order was set a month or so ago, one of the questions frequently asked of me has been, “So…would you want Matt Duchene or Evander Kane as the selection”? Well, unless I’m speaking on behalf of the Colorado Avalanche, having to chose between the two will not be an issue…as I believe the Avs will pick one or the other, more than likely Duchene.
Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson
Therefore, I think that the real question that will face Don Waddell on June 26 is, “Do you want Kane, Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson”?
If the Thrashers look to concentrate on the center position, making the choice either Kane or Schenn, then I think logical choice is to go with Kane. If defense is the focus, Cowen is considered by many to be the best blueline selection after Victor Hedman. And, after all, you simply cannot have enough defensive talent in the organ-I-zation.
The only question here is would either of them be able to make an immediate impact on the Thrashers squad this fall? I don’t see Cowen making the team right off the bat as Bogosian did last fall and, given the Thrashers current situation at center…White, Peverley, Reasoner, Slater, (and possibly even Espo depending on his recovery),…so, Kane making an immediate impact in Atlanta might be a long-shot as well.
However, more times than not, the draft is mostly about re-stocking the talent pond…so that a draft pick plays at the NHL level this year or not is secondary.
But what about Paajarvi-Svensson …the 6-1, 200 pound Swedish left winger? If Waddell chose MP-S, is there at least the outside possibility that this 18-year old could have a decent shot at making the team this fall?
In this recent articleby NHL.com’s managing editor Shawn P. Roarke, NHL Director of European Scouting Goran Stubb is quoted as saying that Paavjarvi-Svensson will be “ready for the NHL very soon”.
Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson playing for his native Sweden
“He is absolutely fearless on the ice,” Stubb said. “He is a great skater. With his moves, he’s creating scoring chances both for himself and for his teammates. He is a guy that can go straight for the net and make things happen — just with his speed and his energy.”
Director of the NHL’s Central Scouting Bureau E.J. Mcguire has said of MP-S, “”Magnus perhaps is the stereotype of the skilled Swede coming over here in recent years – outside speed extraordinaire, ability to freeze defenders and make all his good moves work even more effectively. He was a good contributor to his team at the World Junior tournament and I think will be an essential member of any NHL team in years to come. He showed, at the World Junior championships, why the 1980 comparisons to Mats Naslund, Kent Nilsson and more recently a Peter Forsberg will follow him over to his NHL team. He’ll be a high draft pick and I’m sure he’s going to be a combination of the kind of offensive flare and skills that have made those other three predecessors great NHL players.”
I could see this kid filling the third-line LW spot that’s being vacated by the departing Eric Perrin. Of course, I think it would be better if a proven top-six forward be obtained by Waddell…but if unsuccessful in that venture, MP-S could be a viable option. And in doing so, it could also free up Waddell to simply focus on acquiring a top-four defender via trade or free agency.
He’s got size…he’s got speed…he seems to have all the tools to be a big-time player in the NHL.
And Speaking Of The Draft…
Tim and Mark Ecclestone have invited us all over to TJs to watch the opening round of the NHL Entry Draft. They have provided me with their party room in the back…which is the no-smoking area…to hold this little shin-dig! Some details are still being worked out, but so far we’ll be offered $1 draft beers and Tim might even be joined by some of his former Atlanta Flames teammates there. There re other things being worked out as well and I’ll update you as they come about.
But make your plans to be there if ya can… RSVP with Trixie. As always…it should be great fun!
And One More Thing…
Hey Shawn and Mike at GSG…tell my good buddy Ron I said “hello”!
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180 comments Add your comment
LAC
May 19th, 2009
9:53 am
Rawhide… Have to question Slater STILL being here. We got 76 points last season with him out there and he is a holdover of past mistakes.
He has to go, so we can open a spot for someone who WILL help the team, Slater does not. Todd White another career season DOUBTFUL, but he is here for 2 more years…
Like this Sweede, looks like a big forward, something WE need and one who can score, worth a look.
RS
May 19th, 2009
9:54 am
I will say this about the kid. It takes a set of stones to wear #21 for Team Sweden.
kracker
May 19th, 2009
10:08 am
I like that idea….if MPS is ready or close to being NHL ready, just telling him the 3rd LW spot is his to earn might be just the ticket. Basically, he’d be up against Stuart, the way the roster looks right now. Maybe Crabb who’s more of a RW. Such a move will really push the kid, gets him ready fast and allows the FA forward money to be spent at RW or C. I wonder if he’s ready for the physical play of an NHL checking line?
Tony C.
May 19th, 2009
10:19 am
Anybody know if he can play on the other side (RW)?
kracker
May 19th, 2009
10:20 am
On second thought, though, would the kid be ready to skate and defend against the top lines in the league, to play close to even +/-?
Tony C.
May 19th, 2009
10:26 am
Yeah, I don’t think that putting him on your checking line is getting the best return on investment. This guy’s a pure scorer-let’s not put a scoring winger in a checking role again. While I think MPS is clearly better suited to the NHL game than Sterling (can’t teach size), I would say that Sterling’s play on the 3rd line is a good example of square peg being asked to fill a round hole.
Maybe I’m wrong. I still don’t think this kid projects on anybody’s chart as a grinder.
Tony C.
May 19th, 2009
10:27 am
Oh, and thanks for ranallo’ing me.
Rawhide
May 19th, 2009
10:35 am
Am I going to have to get Trixie to start sending out 10 minute warnings prior to each new posts????
Brendan
May 19th, 2009
10:39 am
I don’t have a problem with MPS as our draft pick. Schenn may be “NHL-ready” more, or just as quickly. But I have no problem with Kane, at 4th overall, either. I saw Duchene on the NHL Network this past weekend, with their Memorial Cup tournament coverage. He was asked, point blank, who his favorite teams were growing up. And he said, in this order, Colorado and Montreal. Hmmn. Colorado picks 3rd. Duchene is “NHL-ready,” potentially. His favorite team is the Avalanche. If Duchene is still up on that board when the Thrashers pick 4th, I’ll be stunned. And pick him!! Pick him now!!!!
I’m sort of warming to the idea of Kane. But, I’d sure hope Waddell has the good sense to keep his desires SILENT. Nobody needs to know who he WANTS to pick. He should field offers for the #4 slot. Normally, I’d say “no” to that sort of thing. But with MPS, Schenn, and others, still rich in talent, I don’t mind moving back one-slot. ?I said, ONE, not two. Or three, etc. And the pick up need to be a high-end 2nd rounder. Or don’t do it.
How much difference is there, really, beyond Hedman, Tavares, and Duchene? Is the drop off SIGNIFICANT enough to just “poo-poo” a proposal to pick up a 2nd rounder in this year’s draft? If the answer is, “YES!! It drops WAYYY OFFF!,” then no. Don’t do it. If the answer is “no, we’d be okay with any of a myriad of players at #5,” then it’s at least something to consider. Generally-speaking, I don’t budge from a lottery draft position. I take stock of what I need, and the talent level that’s there. Based on that, generally-speaking, I’d pick precisely where I am in that draft. Unless I could manage to move up. But, I’m open to the idea of moving back one, and only one position.
In 2005, we owned pick #8. We moved back FOUR SLOTS to #12, to go pick up Pavelec, I believe. Can’t even believe we’re talking about trading Pavelec now, after paying such a hefty price for him, while passing on Setoguchi, Staal, and Kopitar. We moved from #12 back to #16, to eventually select Alex Bourret, whom the organization traded for Pascal Dupuis and a 3rd round pick that it converted into Chris Thorburn.
Bygones.
Russian
May 19th, 2009
10:43 am
It is interesting point to get young Sweden (MP-S). Damn!@ He got a big name!
If we take him try to put him in second line. Move Slava to third or first line.
kracker
May 19th, 2009
10:57 am
Sure, I don’t mean to miscast a scorer on the 3rd line. I was thinking of it more as a way for MPS to play right away, get some minutes in w/o having pressure on him to be a scorer. Thinking about it though, he might be more comfortable not being a defensive-first forward. This is the sort of thing the coaches figure out in camp, anyway.
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 19th, 2009
11:02 am
Yes
Darkhorse
May 19th, 2009
11:19 am
It’s like he is a year too early for us. If this were next year and Slava was retiring and Kovy had resigned, he would make almost too much sense for the second line LW spot.
But, and slap me for the blasphemy, maybe MPS would be a great insurance policy this year in case we can’t resign Kovy. I feel something will go down at the draft with these picks and DW. Hope to goodness it’s positive.
kracker
May 19th, 2009
11:35 am
Ummm, we got Opie in the 2nd round in ‘05 from one of the three picks we got by trading down twice. These to me were just so-so move(s) by DW. I figure whoever DW thought would still be available at #12 got snatched (Kopitar went 11). But it all may look a little better if we eventually get good play from Pavs or if he (or Kari) gets us a decent return in a trade.
R. Stroz
May 19th, 2009
11:35 am
After finally watching some footage of Duchene, Kane, and MPS, I would eliminate MPS.
Duchene has obscene wheels, breakaway speed, amd sniper shooting skills.
Kane reminds me of a young Willi Plett, tough, willing to get in front of the net, and opportunistic.
MPS didn’t really seem to have Duchene’s wheels or Kane’s toughness. MPS is what I often call a tweener.
So, I’d rather have a player that can keep up with Kovy, Duchene or a player that can cause havoc in front of the net, Kane.
Shawn@GSG
May 19th, 2009
12:03 pm
Rawhide – That definitely caught me off guard. LOL – Ron says hello right back. I’m all for either MPS or Schenn at this point. Whoever we get needs to have size and grit. I get really frustrated seeing our guys pushed around without retaliation. I just don’t think Bolts or Valabik worry any of the other teams we play.
World be Free
May 19th, 2009
12:09 pm
There are three can’t miss players in this draft and we have the 4th pick.
World be Free
May 19th, 2009
12:10 pm
Time to send Jim Slater packing. We need a 4th line center who can win faceoffs, score keys goals and play “D” from the center position in the 3rd period.
Back to Todd Marchant again.
Rawhide
May 19th, 2009
12:20 pm
Shawn@GSG – Yeah…Ron thought you’d get a kick outa that! Thanks for being a regular reader and chime in more often!
Glovesave29
May 19th, 2009
12:49 pm
Speed never slumps. Everything else about your game can go to hell, but if you are fast…you are always fast. Something to consider.
I know people here despise Slater, but he too can skate like the wind. He causes all sorts of mismatches and defensive problems. His offensive skills and output are not what a first rounder should be, but it is not his fault he was taken that early. Speed can break a lock / trap and it also slows the opposition breakout by forechecking.
Can you imagine a powerplay of Kovy, MPS, Slates, Bogo and Toby? All are FANTASTIC skaters. We’d be a light blue blur out there.
Whomever gets MPS, they are going to have to be creative in putting that name on the back of the uni. 17 spaces including the dash. Will go elbow to elbow!
Wayne from AL
May 19th, 2009
1:01 pm
I’d rather have Evander Kane with my first pick…
Considering the fragility of the franchise, I’d rather have a veteran D-man from free-agency than from the draft.
FormerIslesFan
May 19th, 2009
1:04 pm
Glovesave29,
On the name: Kinda reminds me of when the Ranger$ used to have Reijo Ruotsalainen on their team. I remember the name going elbow to elbow on that one.
Of course, if LaVallee ever wanted his full last name on his jersey, we’d be in trouble! Doesn’t he actually have a double-name as well?
Thrashers27
May 19th, 2009
1:05 pm
I haven’t seen anything to get too excited about with MPS…the only stats I’ve seen on him are from TSN’s website and the numbers are weak at best. I’m hoping those numbers aren’t accurate. Anybody seen stats to backup his draft ranking?
Glovesave29
May 19th, 2009
1:06 pm
Coyotes bankruptcy hearings begin at 4 today. Should be interesting. Which small market team will see the return of the NHL…Winnipeg or Hamilton? Winnipeg deserves it most, but can the sub-14,000 seat MTS Center work for the NHL? Hamilton has a larger, older arena – with 130,000 less in population to draw from than Winnipeg. I’m pulling for the return of the Jets. But then we still have to put up with the annoying Toronto-based rumors of us moving to southern Ontario…
Glovesave29
May 19th, 2009
1:09 pm
FIF – or the Flames and Pekka Rauttakallio…!
Yup…Jordan LaVallee-Smotherland.
R. Stroz
May 19th, 2009
1:16 pm
Here’s a question:
Would you trade Pavelec and the Thrashers 4th pick to Colorado for Colorado’s 3rd pick?
LAC
May 19th, 2009
2:22 pm
Stroz, NO on that Colorado trade…. Could we do better trading a goalie for a FRONT LINE CENTER, which BTW, has been PROMISED for two-three years now and NOTHING, oh Todd White…..
Can anyone point to anything jim slater has done here that warrants his return ? He’s been here three years or so and has nothing to show for it… DO NOT BRING BACK JIM SLATER PLEASE !
GaVaHokie
May 19th, 2009
2:30 pm
Brendan… yeah, I pointed that out last month… saw a Battalion profile video of Duchene and he has a whole room full of Avalanche stuff.
If it’s a coin toss for the Avs… We’ll probably see Colorado draft Duchene, similar to LA last year drafting Doughty over Bogosian because of Doughty’s love of the King’s growing up.
R. Stroz
May 19th, 2009
2:44 pm
LAC – My concern is that no team in their right mind would give up a top line center for any of our goalies.
Pavelec just had his knee scoped and his play was inconsistent at best.
Lehtonen has talent but lacks maturity.
Moose is a great backup that is aging.
If you were another GM, would you trade a top line forward for any of those three?
The only way we end up with a top line forward for one of our goalies is due to the other team needing to dump salary. Other than that scenario, Waddell’s ability to move one of our goalies for a top line forward is nothing more than bluster.
GaVaHokie
May 19th, 2009
2:46 pm
Stroz… I only do that trade if a player comes back from Colorado as well, like maybe Svatos or Wolski… and that’s assuming you think Duchene is THAT MUCH better than MPS or Kane (personally, I do).
So is having Duchene and Wolski better than having Pavelec and Kane?… tough call, hard to judge. We don’t know how much bigger Kane is going to get and how much better Pavelec is going to get.
Rawhide… MPS is the guy I’m most worried about defensively, I’m also worried that he’s all finesse with no finish, like Dupuis and Slater… I’m seeing the same thing Thrasher27 is seeing stat-wise.
Kane and Duchene are considered quality two-way forwards… Duchene plays the PK. So, if Duchene is off the board… I take Kane with a big gulp, and hope MPS isn’t the next Swedish sensation.
But, if Kane becomes the next Eric Staal (E.J. McGuire’s comparison)… then who cares? We’re safe.
World be Free
May 19th, 2009
2:52 pm
Stroz-I’d make that deal to get Duchene.
I like Slater, but he has stone hands around the net. He could hit the broad side of a barn.
Marchant can take his place and he has speed too.
Tony C.
May 19th, 2009
3:04 pm
Stroz- No I wouldn’t Trade Pavelec AND the 4th pick for just a pick in return. Now, if you included the kid they had holding down their 2nd-pair right side at the end of the year when they were absolutely devastated by injury, well then I might do that.
Also, did any of you guys actually watch the World Juniors? MPS was a complete stud. I also gained new appreciation for Tavares-that kid is just plain out blessed.
I think Duschene would fill the #1 pivot role admirably for a decade. Kane, I would also like to have because he does bring that sandpaper to the rink-if they’d go for it, I’d trade Pavelec, both our 2nd-round picks this year and the 2nd rounder NEXT year for the # 3 pick & a defensive prospect.
Never going to happen, but we would then have our top-6 filled out nicely and outside of SlavaMatic, they’d all be under 30 pretty damn sick.
Darkhorse
May 19th, 2009
3:05 pm
I wonder if we’ll see a player like MPS or Schenn or someone else shoot up teams draft boards over the next month and challenge the order of the proposed top three? It seems to happen every few years, especially in other drafts like the NBA and NFL. Might be the final scouting numbers come in and a player like Duchene might fall a spot because of the supposed new info on a European player is climbing fast. What’s the feel on that other Swede dman…EKMAN-LARSSON or Cowen? Are they capable of climbing as high as three or four?
Tony C.
May 19th, 2009
3:07 pm
Also for the stats guys how much TOI was MPS getting…let’s also remember that when viewing MPS’ stats versus those of the NorAm skaters’ stats an important consideration is that MPS put those numbers up playing against grown men, and even though the WHL is a rough&tumble league, those players are still kids (for the most part).
Glovesave29
May 19th, 2009
3:09 pm
WBF – true, Slater’s offensive skills are, well…offensive! But as a 4th line center between two bruisers, he could work there. He could be the first man in on the deep forecheck, and force the play into the trap and BOOM, leave them to get levelled by our winger. If he came without the tag of “1st round draft pick” and came in as say, an unsigned free agent, he’d have made everyone happy. Again, cant help DW took him as a number one, but he certainly serves a purpose here. He would be served on an “energy” line.
kracker
May 19th, 2009
3:19 pm
*Thrashers27* — Paajarvi-Svensson’s current stats are from his year playing for Timra IK in the Swedish Elite league, where he was a 17/18 year old kid playing against grown men. That league is on a par with or perhaps better than your average AHL club. This is great for his development, IMO. It isn’t great for piling up goals and points against players his own age.
GaVaHokie
May 19th, 2009
3:22 pm
Darkhorse… Bogosian was one of those players last year… mid-season he was around 9th amongst North American skaters, then he shot up to #3 in the final ranks.
There’s also the famous example of Gretzky drafting Blake Wheeler at #4 when he was projected to go in the 20’s.
GaVaHokie
May 19th, 2009
3:26 pm
Well, here are MPS stats for everyone to judge… yes, it’s amongst grown men, which you would consider “NHL ready”… but would this earn you a Calder Trophy in the NHL?… 7 goals on 103 shots?
http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=6555&hubname=nhl
Tony C.
May 19th, 2009
3:32 pm
I think Wheeler also showed why Gretz drafted him so high this season-if that’s his “baseline” and you project that most players really hit their stride after 2.5-3 seasons…well, Wheeler’s going to keep making Gretz look prescient.
GaVaHokie
May 19th, 2009
3:37 pm
I bet Evander Kane saw more physicality in the WHL then MPS did playing with grown men in Sweden.
It’s really hard for me to ignore these numbers.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=7278&hubname=nhl
GaVaHokie
May 19th, 2009
3:38 pm
Tony… agreed, but Gretz probably could have moved down and picked up more assets if he was going to go “off the board” like that.
h
May 19th, 2009
3:41 pm
Glovesave-I hear your love for Slater, but he is a 4th line guy who can’t kill a penalty and can’t score goals. Yes he has speed, but so did Dupuis. At least Dupuis could help on the PK. To me if you can trade a goalie to Colorado, you do it, but not for a draft slot. Colorado has a couple-three defensemen who could certainly help our top 4 d-men. What about Hejduk? I say trade one of the goalies for the best D-man you can get from Colorado and then use your money to get a top 6 forward. I’m a fan of Antropov, the big fella, as that is a big body to add to Kovy’s line. In that scenario, you still have money to get two other PK specialists to play on 4th line with Boulton (we certainly need that and then some). I like how we look with those changes, and it won’t be too expensive for the ASG either. I still think that Moose is not the answer as a back-up and should be signed as a coach. There are much better options available out there. As for a draft pick, Duchesne and Kane make most sense. If more than one of these three (Slater, Thorburn and Crabb) are on our roster this next year, we could be in trouble again.
StateBird
May 19th, 2009
3:44 pm
DW will likely pick a player that is NHL ready or trade the pick for a proven NHL player. He needs to make an impact now or else lose his job when the team is sold/moved. A repeat of the Coyburn disaster.
Tony C.
May 19th, 2009
3:46 pm
Hokie- true, but maybe he’d gone fishing with Slats and McT-you know the old Oilers all get together and go fishing/golfing/whatever-the-hell-they-please in the summer, maybe they all were talking about the kids coming up in the draft-maybe he was skurred somebody else had heard the hyperbole being heaped on Wheeler… who knows?
I’d also include Crabb in my above proposed “dream trade” w/Colorado….honestly, if I got the opportunity to take Duschene AND Kane? I’d give up Lehtonen if that’s what it cost.
I would then promptly get #17 to call Khabibulin and ask him how he feels about powder blue.
GaVaHokie
May 19th, 2009
3:50 pm
Tony… we’ll be the Russian Olympic practice team… sign Khabibulin, Antropov, and Morozov. Bring over Nikulin.
h
May 19th, 2009
3:55 pm
Would you take Khabibulin and Pavelec as your two goalies for the next 2 years? I would. Sign the Bulin wall and trade Kari for the best player you can get under age 30. Moose the goalie coach can stay and ina worst case scenario, you make him a player-coach if someone goes down.
GaVaHokie
May 19th, 2009
3:58 pm
h… I’d be perfectly happy with that… Waddell was rumored to be interested in Khabibulin before.
Of course that was Eklund, but I believe it was confirmed somewhere else too.
Tony C.
May 19th, 2009
4:08 pm
Yeah, he was, but he basically was using DW to drive up his price while looking elsewhere…
Also, there are some other FA options for goal as well as some very intriguing options in RFA trades.
Just a quick list of UFA goalies:
Khabibulin
Fernandez
Anderson (from FLA)
Clemmenson
MacDonald
Roloson
Biron
So yeah, I’d be OK with letting KL go in a trade provided I had a handshake deal type deal in place for one of those guys…Fernandez being my last choice out of those guys with Khabibulin, Anderson and Clemmenson at the top (not neccesarily in that order).
Glovesave29
May 19th, 2009
4:16 pm
H – I was peeved Dupuis was a throw in in the Hossa deal. I would have told Pitt no way. Hossa is on the table and that is it. Not really a huge fan of Slater, just that he was put in a no win situation due to his draft status, and has yet to be put where he belongs for that very reason. You have to use your first rounder to CYA.
I cannot buy there is a trade market at ALL for Ondrej. He was a train wreck this year when called up, plus as Tony C points out, there is no lack of available goaltending this year via UF and RFA’s. Plus there are many NHL tested goalies working down in the A.
Don’t think a player-coach is an option, but Brendan would know better than I. But to be a coach, Moose would have to file retirement papers with the league, thereby forefeiting his players salary. Not sure if the CBA would allow him to be pressed into duty when the team already has goalies in its minor league system.
Smoothie
May 19th, 2009
4:45 pm
1) Marchant is a 3rd line C and he will cost more than Marty Reasoner on the open market. I doubt he will ever play here.
2) MPS may not be a bad insurance hedge against Kovy leaving as opposed to picking Kane. My preference is Kane and I think DWad’s will be as well since he has convinced himself he can re-up Kovy. But then again, Kozzy may be gone in another year so there is a strong argument in favor of the European.
3) Goalies do not have as much perceived value as most of y’all are assigning to them here. Especially a youngster like Pavs who has proven absolutely nothing at this level. Huet was traded for a 2nd rounder for God’s sake so don’t get your hopes up thinking DWad will pull a trade for a top-6 forward for Pavs or even Lehts.
4) Slater is better than Dupuis. No question. I liked having Duper here but he has worse hands than Slater. Slater might have had 15 goals this year if he hadn’t had his shoulder separated. He is a fine 4th line C and we’ll get him back for no more than $1 M per year.
h
May 19th, 2009
4:49 pm
I like Bulin, Clemmenson and Biron but the others are not much better than Moose IMHO. If Kari is the bait then we should use it. I know Pavs had a rough time up here this year but people still seem to think he is a natural in the net, and if DW had the amount of interest he previously indicated he received in March, that shouldn’t have changed since then.
GaVaHokie
May 19th, 2009
4:54 pm
$1.1 million is a lot to pay for a goalie coach… I don’t think Anderson is even getting that as Head Coach… not happening. Hedberg is the back up goaltender, unless traded.
Here’s my goalie order… this happens after the draft and July 1st.
Khabibulin
Lehtonen
Pavelec
Anderson
It’s funny how no one would trade for Khabibulin last summer… Chicago was even trying to rent him to a Russian Club to get his salary off the books. Now he’s the starting goalie in the Western Finals.
h
May 19th, 2009
4:54 pm
Smoothie, no way we should trade either goalie if we can’t get a top 6 forward or top 4 d-man. Keep in mind that trading Pavs is nothing like trading Huet. Huet was a 32 year old goalie who would be a UFA the next year. That is much different than trading a 21 year old who has 4 years before being a UFA. As for Kari, you can probably lock him up for a couple of years at below market value due to his injuries.
h
May 19th, 2009
4:56 pm
Hokie, Bulin was coming off a very average year at best for $6M…..in this league it only takes one good year to truly up your stock apparently….ha!
Not Whammer
May 19th, 2009
5:38 pm
I don’t think he is a good fit for where, at least I think, this team is going.
Is MSP a decent two-way guy? Is he capable of playing a bit of D in his own end? Does he have a little sandpaper in his play?
I think Kane or Schenn are the more likely options at #4.
kracker
May 19th, 2009
6:24 pm
*Smoothie* I think we get a top 6 fwd for Pavs only in a deal that involves providing cap relief for the trading partner, such as taking on Lupul’s $4.25M salary from Philly.
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 19th, 2009
6:34 pm
I know this is a cliche response, but I would be happy seeing Duchene, Kane, Schenn, Paajarvi-Svensson, or even Cowen on this roster. Though he’s a bit undersized, I’m also interested to see who drafts Schroeder, as I think he’ll be a fine second line player at the NHL level.
Based on the scouting reports there are a lot of fine options in the top part of this draft..the combine might weed out some of the kids and solidify their standing in the top 5/10 (like it did for Bogosian), but for the most part it seems that any decision is a fine one, in my opinion.
Tony C.
May 19th, 2009
6:47 pm
wHAMMER- I haven’t really seen him lay somebody out, but he doesn’t hide from physical play, if that answers your question-also the only games I saw of him he was placed on the top scoring line and acted accordingly (creative, hella fast, nice wrister).
Brendan
May 19th, 2009
7:54 pm
Glovesave, I don’t really know if “player-coach” is allowed or not. But Moose would be a fool to give up his salary this year to take a coaching position that paid him less. I also completely agree with Glovesave29 that … the goalie market isn’t high right now. This is something Ranallo has also beeen discussing. Pavelec is unproven at the NHL level. He’s 21 or 22 now. He’s just a prospect. How much does that really fetch? Teams want proven commodities in net, especially. What’s the most important position on the ice? Okay, which smart alec just said, “The zamboni driver.” Quiet, you! As for Kari, well the pedigree is there. But he’s injury prone. And like it or not, Jeff Schultz once described him as “just this side of a drool cup.” That really resonated with me. So, what’s Kari’s trade value? Is it really that good? Okay, that leaves Moose. We’re talking about a 6th or 7th round pick.
People say, “we’ve got strength in goal. We must deal from there.” Uhh, I won’t argue that we have strength in goal. We NEED TO KEEP IT. Especially when the trade value for it isn’t high. If someone, anyone … could explain a realistic trade scenario for Pavelec, Lethonen or Moose, that actually benefits the Thrashers more than retaining these players, I’d love to hear it. The closest thing I’ve ever heard was James vanRiemsdyk for Lehtonen.
Okay, on paper, that’s swapping the #2 pick from 2002 for the #2 pick from 2007. It makes us younger. But is Kari Lehtonen a member of the geriatrics ward? What is he, 26?? 27?? His prime years are ahead of him. The organization invested HEAVILY in him. I’d sure be disappointed that Kari “developed” in Atlanta, but FLOURISHED elsewhere. Why did we have to endure these years, only to lose him when he finally reaches his potential? I admit, I wouldn’t have drafted Kari in 2002. But we can’t undo that. And swapping him for vanRiemsdyk won’t necessarily do it, either.
Folks. Are there ANY playoff ultimatums on Don Waddell’s head? Shaking my head, “no.” So? So, it means the organization has plenty of time … to go develop Pavelec. Nobody’s head is on the chopping block. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a Lehtonen-Pavelec rotation, moving forward. Pick #4 in the draft will bring forth a good forward, or defender. There may even be something there in the 2nd round, too. Don’t we have an extra pick coming from Monteal, in the Schneider deal? Okay. Let’s see what brings. And then there’s free agency, too. I won’t hold my breath. But ya never know. Every year, there seems to be a Recchi, Guerin, Weight, Roenick “yesteryear All-Star” still hanging around in his late 30’s, early 40’s, willing to take an NHL paycheck, somewhere, ANYWHERE in the league. A player like that would even come to Atlanta, probably hoping to be moved at the trade deadline to a contender.
Hokie, sorry I forgot your Avalanche/Duchene comments from last month. I do recall you mentioned it. Hey, we regulars make a lot of posts. It’s easy to miss one, here and there.
Last, I recall that DW told the STH’s that Pittsburgh wanted Eric Perrin in the Hossa trade. Instead, Waddell offered Dupuis. Everyone cheered at Waddell’s decision, allegedly. Who knew Perrin’s ice time would be so cut and/or that he’d underperform so much from the previous year. I don’t know if Eric Perrin is coming back. I don’t know if Eric Perrin WANTS to come back. But I never minded Dupuis. I liked him, for what his role was. As for Jim Slater, I’d dump him, for sure, if we were actually talking about being a Stanley Cup contender. But we’re nowhere near that point. So, for a 3rd or 4th line player, on the 27th-best team in the NHL, at $800K, or thereabouts, I’m not crying a river of sorrow and woe. So what if he only pots 10 goals a year, at best. We’re not contending right now. We’re building right now. Might as well stay the course. Slater is an RFA this summer. To retain his rights, Waddell must tender a qualifying offer. He may. Or he may not. Even if Slater becomes unrestricted, without the tender, he’s apt to re-sign with Atlanta, first.
World be Free
May 19th, 2009
8:27 pm
Smoothie-thanks for finally noticing my constrant references to MArchant. I separate him from Marty, because Marchant is a little older are designed for defense, a 4th line center who can secure a win late in a game. This team has NEVER learned how to protect a lead.
May I add, both Marchant and Marty are Western NY boys. WNYers play alotta developmental hockey in Southern Ontario.
Magnus or Kane-both would be excellent picks. Wish Duchene was there at 4.
Sorry guys, I was never a fan of Pascal Du-puss.
Ice Meister
May 19th, 2009
8:31 pm
FYI-Blake Wheeler had a good rookie season, but he lost his job in the Carolina series to Bitz. Bitz and Wheeler are about the same size-real big. We could use some size like that.
Ogie Ogelthorpe
May 19th, 2009
8:59 pm
Kari just needs a personal trainer to keep him in shape all year so he doesn’t pull any muscles.
Glovesave29
May 19th, 2009
9:11 pm
GaVa – Hedberg would not get his player salary if he were to retire and coach. It’s been said he’d be nuts to do so and take the cut…but would he? This is his final year, he’s not going to get another contract at 37 for the 2010-2011 season. If he takes a coaches salary at say $350K, he can earn that over many years and recoup what he lost in players by retiring. Coaches are also not taxed by both the USA and Canada as players are. Most states and provinces have income taxes on athletes when they play games in their state in ADDITION to those pay to Georgia as a member of the Thrashers. Also take agent fees out too. No union dues either. Not saying he isn’t going to take a hit, he would…but in the long term he may be better off. Moose is a vet and a great guy, the team needs to pay him respect and let him make the decision. He’s earned that right. But after the DW not contacting Toby incedent, I am not so sure that ol Donnie boy will do the right thing.
Brendan
May 19th, 2009
9:28 pm
Ogletorp? Ogle-torp? Ogle-THHHHorpe. Don’t worry. He’s not playing–he’s suspended.
Brendan
May 19th, 2009
9:30 pm
Detroi 2, Chicag 1, the 3rd period just started. It’s on Versus. So no excuses for not watching. Wonder what the Stanley Cup playoffs do, TV-ratings-wise, in Atlanta? I bet somebody has this stat.
Brandon
May 19th, 2009
10:03 pm
Let’s see, Kovalchuck has been begging for a good center. Our centers stand as white, peverley, slater, reasoner..
What’s wrong with dishing slater, letting kane play low a year, peverley fill the slot with kovy like he successfully did last year.
if espo makes the team then rid of white finally and insert him.
GaVaHokie
May 19th, 2009
10:35 pm
Hokie, sorry I forgot your Avalanche/Duchene comments from last month. I do recall you mentioned it. Hey, we regulars make a lot of posts. It’s easy to miss one, here and there.
No skin off my teeth… I wasn’t trying to take credit.
Just backing up what you said.
It’s on Versus. So no excuses for not watching.
How about I have Dish Network and they only carry it on their “Everything Pak”… bastards.
Hockey Biltong
May 20th, 2009
1:02 am
I wanted Chi town to win… wahhhh…
Alan
May 20th, 2009
1:14 am
It’s really hard for me to ignore these numbers.
How did Kane amass 45PIM in 17 playoff games?! Pretty interesting.
Also, nice to see the Wings pull out that victory in OT. They’re going to need the momentum heading into unfriendly territory.
Hijacker
May 20th, 2009
5:10 am
R. Stroz: “MPS didn’t really seem to have Duchene’s wheels”
What? MPS or SP is probably one of the best skaters in this draft.
BTW, Rawhide Kane played mainly RW for the Giants this season and not center.
Jimbo
May 20th, 2009
7:38 am
As usual a good informative piece, Rawhide. You continue to keep our interest high during this down time. Where is Tomi Kallio when we need him most? Agree with others that letting Dupuis go was a HUGE MISTAKE.
Ogie Ogethorpe
May 20th, 2009
7:42 am
Brendan-”that guy’s always suspended”
“21-22 big afro”
I never had enough hair for an afro
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 20th, 2009
7:47 am
It’s important to remember that Kane is also playing on a line with a 100+ point scorer in the WHL, Casey Pierro-Zabotel (who lead the WHL in points during the regular season).
I’m guessing that will help pad anybody’s stats. Kane had 23 PPGs, and Pierro-Zabotel led the league in assists. Perhaps it’s more of a chemistry thing than Kane’s raw talent.
Rawhide
May 20th, 2009
8:44 am
Jimbo – Thank you, but I have to be honest with you…the 70-plus comment thread that is on-going here over the past day or so has been a pleasure for me to enjoy. As you can plainly see, there are some pretty sharp hockey fans that know how to keep a great discussion going around here.
kracker
May 20th, 2009
8:58 am
This is great stuff….but we will have to reassess after next week’s combines in Toronto. The NHL Network’s online schedule doesn’t have listings past Sunday and the combines start on Monday but they will probably have lots of coverage.
GaVaHokie
May 20th, 2009
9:23 am
kracker… thanks for the info… finally something to really evaluate.
Ranallo… and maybe Zabotel is the assist leader because he plays on a line with Kane.
There should be plenty of guys here for Kane to find that same chemistry with (I would hope)… if Kane can bury the puck, we’ve got plenty of smart players that can get it to him, like Kozlov, White, Peverley and Little.
Another thing to consider, from what I’ve been told, is that Kane gained 20 lbs between his 2nd and 3rd Junior season… if he could gain another 20 lbs and get over 200 lbs, there’s no telling his potential.
Tony C.
May 20th, 2009
9:35 am
ranallo-OK. so he is more of a triggerman than a playmaker… COOL. I’m ok with that-I think we have enough guys who think pass first.
Also, check your boy’s (P-Z) stats the year before he & Kane were on the same line-his numbers drop percipitously.
But it’s snippets like this that sell me on Kane (link: http://national-hockey-league-nhl.suite101.com/article.cfm/evander_kane_2009_nhl_draft_profile):
Unlike the flashy Tavares, Kane is not just about points. Sure, he has a great shot and super puck handling, but what NHL teams are coveting in the upcoming ‘09 draft are his two other assets. He is a very solid two way player, and is a tough presence to play against on the ice. And at 6”1’ and 180 lbs at just 17 years of age, scouts are eager to see how much bigger he will get.
According to NHL scout Bruce Haralson, “What’s impressive to me is that he doesn’t necessarily dominate with the puck. He’s not a highly skilled guy who hangs onto the puck forever. He just has that innate sense of timing and gets to the holes. He has pure goal-scoring instincts.”
Also this (link: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/evander_kane ):
A superb skater with excellent acceleration. With his quick release, Kane is a threat to score every time he steps on the ice. NHL scouts say he has pure goal scoring instincts, evidenced by his 48-goal campaign. He handles the physical rigors well, in part because he is a difficult target to lock on to. Kane has benefited from the play of 20-year-old linemate Casey Pierro-Zabotel (PIT), the WHL regular season scoring champion. Could use some additional weight, but has plenty of time to build strength. Skill set is reminiscent of a young Mike Modano, a former WHLer who played his junior hockey with the Prince Albert Raiders.
Sounds OK to me. Although, I would bet that it about that line equaling greater than the sum of it’s parts- I just like his pedigree, guy’s been a winneer wherever he goes-plus that Vancouver Giants team has just been NASTY the past few seasons-I lost a good bet on them when they were upset in the playoffs. Vancouver Giants alumni include:
Gilbert Brulé
Triston Grant
Brett Festerling
Mark Fistric
Andrew Ladd
Milan Lucic
Spencer Machacek
Kenndal McArdle
Andrej Meszaros
Brendan Mikkelson
Marek Schwarz
Michal Repik
Nick Tarnasky
So I’m pretty ok with products of this team-they’ve been a contender for the past several seasons-even as they loose talented guys like Lucic-Arguably their team this year was better than the club that won the Memorial Cup.
One thing that bothers me is the last paragraph of that HFboards profile:
Kane has also acknowledged he is ready to assume the responsibilities of a role model if he is chosen by a NHL team located in a largely African-American market.
Tony C.
May 20th, 2009
9:39 am
telegraph the draft much donni?
Alan
May 20th, 2009
10:14 am
One thing that bothers me is the last paragraph of that HFboards profile:
Doesn’t bother me a bit, so long as he’s a good role model.
GaVaHokie
May 20th, 2009
10:18 am
telegraph the draft much donni?
I think that was based off a scouting interview he did with Altanta back in December. It’s probably only been made more relevant lately since the prospects of him coming to Atlanta are greater.
Still… I’d say it’s a 90% chance he’s our pick, and at #4, there’s not much anybody below us can do about it without trading up and then dropping Duchene in our lap.
Brendan
May 20th, 2009
10:28 am
Oglethorpe showed up to the Championship game, though. If there’s on3 game you don’t want to miss, it’s that one. Unfortunately, it ended in a striptease. By a guy. It would have been much better with the “twins.”
So, the Red Wings hold serve at home. Now all Chicago has to do is … win four out of the next five games, to take the series, and advance to the Stanley Cup Finals. Piece o’cake. D’oh. The Blackhawks really needed that OT winner. It’s not over yet. But a loss in Game Three … and it will be. Everyone knows what 0-3 means.
The NHL Network was giving Brian Campbell some heat about the overtime decision-making. It got me to thinking, “whose fault is it when a player gets overpaid?” Actually, don’t answer. Where I’m headed with this is the level of expectation on the player. When former Lightning GM, Jay Feaster, presented Brad Richards, the 2004 Conn Smythe Trophy winner, with a then “league maximum” contract, $7.8 million-a-year, for five years, it put a burden of expectation on that player that he never really achieved. When Brian Campbell hit the market, several of us, and even his former team, Buffalo, suggested $5 million “felt about right.” Campbell, due to a competitive marketplace, got $2 million more than that. What I’m asking here is … do we excuse performance a bit more for a lesser salaried player? When Zdeno Chara whiffs on a pass from behind his net that is intercepted and converted into a scoring chance for the other team, do we yell, “Way to go, Chara!! $7.5 million for THAAAT!!”
R. Stroz
May 20th, 2009
10:35 am
Speaking of drafting, we need to change gears a little and vote:
http://thrashers.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NHLPage&id=13661
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 20th, 2009
10:37 am
Hokie — To my recollection he played on the same line with P-Z the year before, and they both attributed that chance to adjust to eachother as to why they excelled (points wise) this year more than last.
You’re right though, which is why I say it’s evidence of good chemistry and not simply his ability to score. I don’t know if I agree that this team has good enough playmakers. They’ve struggled mightily to find one for Kovalchuk on a consistent basis, and adding another player who depends on good feeds might not benefit Kovalchuk directly, nor the other lines missing passers.
But as I said previously, I’d be fine with almost any of the draft candidates. Kovalchuk-Little-Kane looks just as good to me as Kovalchuk-Schenn-Little or Kovalchuk-Duchene-Little. Paajarvi-Svensson-Peverley-RW could also be a fine combination, if Kozlov retires in one year. Or even Bogosian-Enstrom, Hainsey-Cowen in two year’s time could be a good sign.
There aren’t many knocks on these players, in my opinion, so we’re picking based on perceived strenghts and weaknesses. I think it’s unwise to pick based on immediate need, which is why I think Paajarvi-Svensson is still in the running for that #4 pick for the Thrashers. He might be log jammed at LW for the first year, but perhaps he wants to stay in Sweden and get some good conditioning in the 5th best league in the World (per IIHF in 2008). If Kozlov and/or Kovalchuk are gone next year, Paajarvi-Svensson fills their hole in the lineup.
Tony C. — I agree, that’s giving away quite a lot of information prior to being drafted. I think it’s pretty obvious that “largely African-American market” is focused on the city of Atlanta, and likely came directly from Waddell or Marr’s mouth. But, it’s good that he acknowledges what type of role he might play, and seems to embrace it.
Sara
May 20th, 2009
10:40 am
So, is this flying under the radar around here or did I already miss the discussion?
http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/62538
R. Stroz
May 20th, 2009
10:42 am
SHHHH…Sara, information pending.
Sara
May 20th, 2009
10:44 am
Aaaah, ok. I’ll wait patiently.
GaVaHokie
May 20th, 2009
11:27 am
Ranallo… just nit-picking… but it might be easier to set up a guy like Kane who prefers to take his shots around the net, versus Kovalchuk who likes to blast from the point and the top of the circle.
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 20th, 2009
11:36 am
Hokie — I understand you, and it’s part of the reason why I brought up his linemate (with regards to our deciphering potential based on minor league stats).
I would love for a grinder with a nose for the net who cashes in on rebounds (ala Holmstrom and Franzen) to play in Atlanta, with Kovalchuk.
Sara — I definitely didn’t see that, but I’m going to wait until someone else brings forward some more information.
Nikita
May 20th, 2009
11:36 am
*Everyone cheered at Waddell’s decision, allegedly.*
I think it was the right decision. I also don’t think Eric Perrin can be said to have underperformed until late in the season. He spent most of the early season being bounced around both in position and line. Yet as far as I can tell he showed up in better condition and applied the same work ethic. In other words, I think DW was right to keep him and I think he was right that he was misdeployed. Of course, the end result is that he didn’t produce the numbers we needed from him.
*I don’t know if Eric Perrin is coming back. I don’t know if Eric Perrin WANTS to come back.*
Has that ever happened? Have we ever resigned someone we waived? I would bet Perrin can be picked up by someone else, and I’d imagine he will be. If he has to, I imagine he might take the Kwiatkowski route.
*But I never minded Dupuis.*
Ugh. I did. Dupuis had great speed, but horrible hands and a bad attitude. Good riddance to Captain Monobrow.
*As for Jim Slater, I’d dump him, for sure, if we were actually talking about being a Stanley Cup contender. But we’re nowhere near that point.*
I like Slater, but I think if we need room he’s going to have to go. The checking line worked pretty well together, but both Slater and Thorburn performed relatively badly. The differences are age and special teams performance — and special teams performance is very important, since it is a major identifiable factor of our non-success. Slater’s PK performance was very weak. And also, I think Slater might need to go for his own sake — for whatever reason none of the coaches he’s worked under have been able to bring him to the full use of his potential. Thorburn could also go, but I don’t think the coaches intend to let him.
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 20th, 2009
11:38 am
Oh, looking through the Giants players drafted in the NHL, how many qualify as “top line” talent in the NHL?
Lucic is the only one I count.
GaVaHokie
May 20th, 2009
11:40 am
So, is this flying under the radar around here or did I already miss the discussion?
Holy Cow!… thanks for the link! Boy did LAC get called out or what?
On Levenson’s issue of “no credibility with anonymity”… I use a screenname to protect my private life from the insane trolls that frequent this blog. I’m not trying to keep my comments anonymous to the AJC. I don’t care if the AJC and Atlanta Spirit Group know who I am… I’m more than happy to share my opinions with them openly.
Smoothie
May 20th, 2009
11:43 am
I agree with Tony and GVH that Kane is the guy we need. I like his grit and nose for the net. Let’s face it, other than Armstrong and Little, we do not have enough guys in our Top 9 who have a real knack for scoring tough, pay-the-price at the goal line type goals. Kovy could if he wanted to but that’s not his game obviously. Pever, Kozzy and White are too often looking for the perfect play when putting the puck on net is a better idea. But that strategy works more when you have guys like Kane crashing the net. No guarantees of course, but I like Kane at # 4 better than MPS for that reason.
And Tony, why are you bothered about Kane being a role-model in ATL? Perhaps I’m just mis-interpreting your comments.
GaVaHokie
May 20th, 2009
11:47 am
I would love for a grinder with a nose for the net who cashes in on rebounds (ala Holmstrom and Franzen) to play in Atlanta, with Kovalchuk.
Franzen is quickly becoming one of my favorite players in the league, along with Getzlaf.
GaVaHokie
May 20th, 2009
11:49 am
Smoothie… Tony was referring to Atlanta “playing their card” as to who they want in the draft.
Tony C.
May 20th, 2009
11:50 am
LAC-feel better? Looks like ol’ Bruce does read the blogs…at least sometimes.
I have to admit I just made my co-workers all think I’m loony for the hysterical laughing that paragraph caused.
Old Time Hockey
May 20th, 2009
11:53 am
1–Trade Kari. He has PROVEN that he is not going to do what it takes to excel at this level for an entire year (by that I mean he’s softer than the Pillsbury Doughboy). If he committed to conditioning it would be a start, but he is just as unproven as Pavelec as far as I’m concerned. You need a number one goalie who can carry a team, not one who shows flashes and disappears. Would he flourish on another team? Possibly, but more than likely he would play like gangbusters for 4-6 weeks, raise the new team’s hopes and then end up in the trainers room again crushing the new team’s playoff hopes.
2–I thought Slater made tremendous strides this last year. Two years ago I thought he was a total bust. I see him as a Dan Cleary type.
3–If that lady from the paper tracks me down, I’ll admit who I really am. : )
Smoothie
May 20th, 2009
11:58 am
Just to play devil’s advocate, but Tampa has a large African-American population.
But we all know they will either take Hedman or Tavares if the Isles go defense. How is HFBoards analysis tipping DWad’s hand? Perhaps they are doing what every other mock drafter is doing and putting Kane in the 4 slot after JT, VH and Duchene?
Ogie Ogelthorpe
May 20th, 2009
12:02 pm
I am just glad we did not overpay Howdy Dowdy Campbell
Tony C.
May 20th, 2009
12:04 pm
Smoothie- no I’m saying that basically, by going ahead and having the guy come out and make statements that “ Kane has also acknowledged he is ready to assume the responsibilities of a role model if he is chosen by a NHL team located in a largely African-American market. “… know of any Largely African-American cities picking in the top 10 in the draft (where Kane projects to go)???
I’m a huge proponent of the Corleone maxim: Never let ‘em know what you’re REALLY thinking, Michael. So if I am looking to draft Kane, I’m singing the praises of Cowen, MPS, cookie monster-anybody but who my target actually is.
However knowing ol’ Donni, he’s probably made some sort of deal with his opposite numbers in Denver, Toronto & Long Island… Idk, it just goes against what I’d do-but Donni’s been making that into an artform since he didn’t re-sign Savard…
Alan
May 20th, 2009
12:10 pm
How is HFBoards analysis tipping DWad’s hand? Perhaps they are doing what every other mock drafter is doing and putting Kane in the 4 slot after JT, VH and Duchene
I think that’s how just about everyone envisions the top four going. Colorado is quite high on Duchene. NYI and TB are, almost certainly, going to take JT and VH. Not necessarily in that order.
The waters start to get a little murky down here at #4. Atlanta, however, needs a more physical presence. Kane most certainly provides that. Kane can also get to the net and take out the trash. And best of all, he’s willing to fight for that spot in front of the net to screen the goalie.
No matter what, though, we’re going to get quality at #4. Hopefully, we stick with it instead of trading down.