Passion For Atlanta’s Hockey History Is Still Aflame – Pt. II
In part one of my discussion with former Atlanta Flame Tim Ecclestone, he and I discussed his disappointment about the lack of connection between the team that was here in the 70s and the present-day one. I asked him if those involved with Thrashers organization at that time ever considered including members of the old club when constructing the Thrashers organization. Tim told me that the team did in fact interview Atlanta/Calgary Flames general manager, Cliff Fletcher, for the same position with the new club.
“Cliff was here, knows the area…a Hall of Famer…done pretty good. And he was called in by Harvey Schiller to be interviewed”, Tim said.
He and Fletcher had dinner the evening he was in town for the interview and they discussed the situation.
“He was the best man for the job”, said Ecclestone. “He had been through an expansion draft…he knows the city. I asked him how he’d make up the team, if he was hired, and Cliff said to me, ‘one thing hasn’t changed over the years…the physicality. I get the job this will be among the top-three toughest in the league. That will be it’s identity’”.
“Any time you think about the Atlanta Flames”, Tim went on, “You think about toughness. When other teams flew into Hartsfield, they didn’t want to play at the Omni…they know they were going to play a physical team. And that’s what Cliff knew would work today as well…get the biggest, toughest guys, then work in your Kovalchuks”.
Tim explained how you have to know your market. Atlanta fans, and fans in the south, love football because of it’s aggressive, physical play…and that is the kind of play they appreciate. “Cliff had this figured out in the 70s. You don’t fight it…you join it. This is why I can’t figure out why Don Waddell will say things like, ‘Why, when football season is over…then we’ll bring ‘em in’…makes no sense”.
Continuing, “Even when they go through a slump…if the team plays hard, physical hockey the fans will come”.
L -R: Eric Vail, Tim Ecclestone and Willi Plett at TJs (Photo by Trixie)
“I ask you…if they ever had a night down at Philips where they recognized some of the old players, who do you think would get the biggest ovation”?
He then answered his own question. “Willi Plett…that’s who. He was a tough player. This is also why Garnet Exelby is so popular with the fans…he’ll stick his nose in it”.
But Fletcher wasn’t given the job, however Brian Burke factored into the process, didn’t he?
“It was down to he and Waddell, so Schiller had to make a decision… and Burke was also being courted by Vancouver. Burke called him up and said, ‘Listen, I’m not trying to put your feet to the fire…but if I’m still being considered, then fine…if not I need to take this job in Vancouver’”. He then went, “Well, time passed and Schiller called him to ask if he had taken the job and he was told, ‘Yeah, I just took it’”.
And so it down to just Waddell. Why was he brought into the mix?
“I think Detroit had just won a cup and, as you know, they start looking at assistants and other people associated with winning teams…and it doesn’t matter whether it’s football or baseball or hockey…that’s where it is. That’s when Waddell’s name came up, he was a part of a winning team”.
I asked Tim about Pat Quinn…if he’s ever been considered for the job.
“That’s a funny story”, he replied. “Pat Quinn was available…Pat was a part of the Flames. He calls me up and says, ‘what’s going on down there? I just got a call from this guy Harvey Schiller asking me for the phone number of some other guy to interview for the job”.
“And keep in mind, Pat’s out of work at the time…and they call him up looking for the number of someone else to ask for an interview. He told me, ‘That was the most bazaar call I ever had’”.
Either way…Tim firmly believes that Fletcher, Burke or Quinn would have built this team on a foundation of size and toughness. And that would have been their identity.
Moving back to the old Flames and the lack of connection between them and the Thrashers organization…he once again brought up the way Minnesota has handled the same circumstance.
“Going back to the situation in Minnesota…they’ve got a mural…it must spread out 50-feet or so…and has beginning with day one of the Minnesota North Stars history all the way to their end in Minnesota. It’s a tribute to the North Stars. It’s there…it’s recognized…and, I mean, what a nice tribute”.
The he said, “This organization here…they chose not to recognize the past”.
He recalled the time when Dany Heatley had won the Calder Memorial Cup as rookie of the year. “Here we have this young man, great player…at the time one of the faces of the future for this team…he’s out there on the ice being presented with the trophy in front of the Atlanta fans. And there are three other guys here in town who are a part of the city’s hockey history who have also won that award…Eric Vail, Willi Plett and Boom-Boom Geoffrion, who was still with us at the time”.
“And I thought to myself, what a nice thing it would be to have had these guys down there with him…to help present this guy with such a great honor…to welcome him in to the group of players with Atlanta ties into that club made up of Calder winners”.
To Ecclestone, it’s just another example to the new franchise making a conscience decision to keep separate the two teams that have shared the same city and much of it’s fans.
But what if the Thrashers had chosen to embrace the team that first won over a fan base to the sport of professional hockey? Again, in part one of this series, Tim discussed how the alumni was more than willing to do the legwork in the community…but he also feels they could do something for the fans attending games at Philips Arena.
Tim shared with me an idea that he had regarding how the past and the present could come together at Philips Arena…and idea that he first shared with Stan Kasten.
“I’ve known Stan for years”, Tim began. “And I said to him, ‘Ya know, what bothers me more than anything is that there is not one picture of the Flames” in the arena.
“I talked to Stan…and I talked to Bernie Mullins…about what I’d like to do. The bar behind the penalty box…I’d like to see one of the party suits on either side…take it and place on the left side an Atlanta Flames logo…on the right side an Atlanta Thrashers logo…right in the middle an NHL Alumni logo”.
He went on to describe how each team’s general managers, assistant GMs, players…everyone involved with those teams would be given space and attention. Display photos of special moments on either side of the room for both teams…recognize team awards and player’s awards” on their respective side.
He also stated that it would also be a nice idea to have alumni members sitting in the top row of seats just outside of the room who would be accessible to all who cared to join them for a beer and talk hockey.
“All of this would be made available to anyone who paid to get into see the game”, he said. “Eric Vail can entertain them better than anyone…same with Danny Bouchard, Tom Lysiak…let us go down there and mix and be a part of them. And the fans can look in the room and see the history of the sport here from the 70s to the present”.
But aren’t those rooms rented out or sold?
“Listen, I understand that room gets rented out on occasions…if they want to rent it out and get one of the guys to host the party…put it into the package…let them do that”.
Ecclestone even stated that he’d help pay for the cost of this “Atlanta Hockey Museum”…kinda like what they have for the Braves at Turner Field.
And the team’s response?
“They have never gotten back with me”.
But would you still be willing to work with them if they would call?
“If they come to us…but Levenson’s gotta return my call. Michael (Gearon), he’s returned my calls, but he’s got his hands full with the Hawks…he’s fine and he’s been good enough to call me back…but Bruce is the point man for the Thrashers”.
And there is more to what he feels they could do for the team beyond just promoting the product in the area.
There are people in this town…both individuals and corporate…”Who have given up on them”, he said. “These guys are big hitters and these guys will spend and spend and spend. And he (Levenson) needs to get involved here. You’ve got out-of town ownership…but you’ve got a fan base here and they could lean on us…but they don’t do it”.
Ecclestone concluded by reiterating his intent here is to simply offer assistance in promoting the team and the sport in the community that he and the alumni know so well, but is frustrated with the lack of interest from the organization.
“We’re not looking for any money…we just want this thing to succeed. But not getting a phone call back…that just bugs me”.
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144 comments Add your comment
R. Stroz
May 13th, 2009
5:40 pm
So, Don Waddell, at best, was our sloppy seconds pick for GM. GREAT!
Sean Avery
May 13th, 2009
5:49 pm
R.Stroz, leave Elisha Cuthbert out of this!
Brendan
May 13th, 2009
6:01 pm
Maybe this article will prompt a phone call? Ya know something, Rawhide? I’ve always thought that Michael Gearon was probably the best of this bunch. This article sort of reinforces that for me. Likewise, I’ve always felt that Bruce Levenson was the biggest impediment to greater Thrasher success. This article also reinforces that notion, for me.
Hockey Biltong
May 13th, 2009
6:31 pm
SImply put, the stubborness and lack of vision has kept this team behind the ‘8 ball’ from the word go. With such terriffic resources as Tim and others how could an owners group not include them in initiallising momentum and keeping momentum.Why not tap into a grass roots identity/cache of support???? Bewildering….
Sage of Bluesland
May 13th, 2009
7:02 pm
These past two articles are among the best I’ve ever read from the cluster otherwise known as the AJC Sports Department (concerning the Thrashers)….I take that qualifier back: These past two HAVE been the best articles on the Thrashers ‘associated’ with the AJC. All of the ones which make the ‘main’ paper (no offense, Rawhide) have the stench of Don Waddell associated with it, so thus it’s worthless to begin with…
Anyway, it’s amazing how slim the margin is on decision-making, isn’t it? For the want of a nail, the horseshoe was lost–and the whole battle with it (or something like that, being a historical military reference)…For the timing of a telephone call, we have suffered with the laughable incompetence of Don Waddell, he of the ten-year “Five-Year Plan!”.
What will finally convince the pitiful sheep to STOP subsidizing the willful incompetence…STOP giving your hard-earned money (I’m assuming that) to those who do not deserve it…STOP being part of the problem and start being part of the long-overdue solution…
I continue to ask these questions–and GaVaSheep and RanalloLamb continue to defend the indefensible…They always have and always will…I attribute it to either sheer ignorance or a relationship with none other than our bumbling, blustering fraud of a GM.
I actually feel sorry for you, Rawhide–I think you will get attention based on these outstanding articles, but it will not endear you to ‘The Man’.
However, those articles warmed my heart in a way I cannot describe. I used to love going to the Flames games as a kid–and these names bring back wonderful memories. Everything–literally everything–Mr. Ecclestone stated was absolutely true. Heck, let’s put him at GM–I know GaVaSheep would disagree, but he couldn’t do much worse than his hero now, could he?
Now, the centerpiece of our existence is ownership which simply doesn’t care and a clownish buffoon pulling the strings…How sad! It makes me laugh more often than not anymore–but, in the end, it’s still sad.
How anyone ‘rewards’ this organization for its performance baffles me. They do not deserve it. Period.
This is your Wake-Up call, folks…Are you even listening?
Glovesave29
May 13th, 2009
7:51 pm
The only thing I can add here is that I wish you could have seen how animated Tim was during this whole discussion (which took up most of the third and all of the first two OT’s of the ANA / DET game). He genuinly cares about Atlanta and the Thrashers along with the legacy that is the Atlanta Flames. You could tell he was really disappointed that he didn’t get the Color Analyst gig or that we didn’t bring Cliff back. Someone, ANYONE with that passion would do wonders down at Philips these days.
The first game ever played here in Atlanta was against the Sabres. The next time they come into town, lets have Flames night. Everyone get out the flaming “A”, or wear red. Get Neal Boortz to come back to his gig as arena announcer, bring as many old Flames back and have some sort of celebration. Think anyone could get Jiggs out of retirement to call one last game? Oh, I’d kill to hear that.
krust
May 13th, 2009
8:38 pm
Rawhide,
Your are a whistle blower, after these two blogs. It demands a response from the owners. Well done!
And I agree with Saga of Bluesland make Tim E GM and give Dan Bouchard Assistant GM.
Tom
May 13th, 2009
9:04 pm
So if I am to read this correctly, the Thrashers have ignored one of the better assets they have to sell tickets to the games. Then they discount the tickets to the games that piss off the season ticket holders even more.
They would be better off giving tickets to the alumni and have them sit with season ticket holders.
Ugh…
Bob
May 13th, 2009
9:15 pm
Burke would have run circles around Waddell. this makes me so sad to think where we would have been by now.
great game tonight, anyone left that still think ovechkin is better than Crosby? Hockey ain’t about individual fancy play guys, Crosby makes everyone around him better. Scoreboard.
Rawhide
May 13th, 2009
9:33 pm
Bob – If I had to chose one or the other…I’d still pick Ovie.
Pittsburgh was indeed the better team in the game, and even the series if ya look at the stats.
And it cannot be denied…Crosby had a helluva series and put himself up 1-0 in Ovie/Crosby post-season matchups.
LAC
May 13th, 2009
9:43 pm
Boy, Tim set the record straight for sure. Let him & Bouchard and other Flames run this club,boy what a transformation we would see !!!!!!
A move IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, with people who know hockey and not the out to lunch bunch we have to put up with now !
Alan
May 13th, 2009
9:47 pm
These stories have made me pretty angry. How could the ownership/GM ignore the former Flames like that? Picking Waddell over Burke, Fletcher, or even Quinn? I’m perturbed.
It’s about damn time this story, the other half of the story, has made some semblance of mainstream media. Thank you, Bill, and a special thanks to Tim for taking the time to tell this story. I wish I could get there on a weekend sometime to sit down and listen to stories in person.
To sum it all up: I feel cheated.
Bob
May 13th, 2009
9:51 pm
*If I had to chose one or the other…I’d still pick Ovie*
Hockey’s the ultimate team game. I’d take Ovie in an All Star Game skills competition, but no way no how in games, and Crosby proved why in this series. Crosby’s the captain of his team, and makes everyone around him better and they completely schooled the Caps and Ovechkin tonight. Scoreboard.
great job on the reporting, Rawhide. Good luck getting any quotes out of Waddell in the future, heh. It’s just pretty said to now know, “the rest of the story”.
sisu
May 13th, 2009
9:54 pm
Sad, very very sad to read the last two articles! Not really surprising to read what most of has guessed. Oh if only the old Flames players could have bought the team.
Bob, if Pitt actually had a goalie worth a damn they be scary. But any respect I had for Crocthby was lost when he punched Boris, he is a whiner and a cry baby!
Rawhide
May 13th, 2009
9:55 pm
Bob – Well, no one can ague with the results.
And thanks, but I’m not holding my breath getting anything out of DW.
Britt
May 13th, 2009
10:05 pm
Did you ever think that there is another side to this story?
Brendan
May 13th, 2009
10:12 pm
I know the marquee matchup was Crosby/Malkin vs. Ovechkin, but there’s an unsung hero wearing the Penguins colors: Kris Letang. He scored plenty of big goals in this series. None bigger than at the series MOST ESSENTIAL POINT: Overtime of Game Three. Without that goal, Pittsburgh might be in an 0-3 hole. And we ALLLLL know what that means.
From the Letang goal forward, it was almost ALL Penguins. For Washington, this isn’t total failure. It’s not. But it does represent a truly blown opportunity. Whenever a team gets up 2-0 in a series, they’re just about out of excuses as to why they lost the series.
That’s how I see it. Also, Simeone Varlamov is just a rookie!!!!! He is. He didn’t exactly have 40-50 games under his belt to prepare for these playoffs. So????? So, Washington has some decisions to make. Jose Theodore is allegedly, supposedly their #1 goalie. He played tonight, but only after his understudy surrendered 4 goals. His only other appearance was Game One, of the opening round vs. the Rangers.
So, while this season does represent “incremental progress” (Rolling eyes skyward,) for Washington, it still feels like a huge disappointment. A Game Seven, at home, shouldn’t result in a 4 goal shellacking. What that tells me is … they weren’t prepared.
Very few goalies can put a team up on their shoulders and carry them to a Cup Finals or Cup win. Let’s see, there’s Dryden and Roy. Can you think of any others? Allright then. So, Washington’s offseason has to be about fixing their goaltending. Either they go with Varlamov as their #1, finish developing him, and grab a netminder at the trade deadline if it’s not going so well. Or just for insurance for Varlamov. Or, they stick with Theodore. Hmmn. If Theodore wasn’t good enough this year, why will he be better NEXT year? Perhaps they’ll move Theodore in the offseason. These are the agonies of a GM.
Folks, this is also the time of year when we fans overreact about goaltending. We know and recognize that it’s essential during the playoffs. But if these goalies were so terrible, how did they manage to lead their teams into the playoffs and in latter rounds? I’m thinking more specifically about Roberto Luongo, and his seven goals that he surrendered in Game Six, in an elimination game.
Does this mean Roberto Luongo sucks?? Does it mean Robert Luongo can’t win the big one? Does this mean Vancouver trades him in the offseason? The answers to these questions ought to be “no.” What it means is that any goalie can lay an egg in a big game. I remember a game when Patrick Roy lost to the Red Wings, 6-0. And everything was on the line. And he’s … Patrick Roy.
Washington needed a bigger series out of Alexander Semin. They didn’t get it. Backstrom could have been better. Green could have been better. It was a team failure, tonight, for Washington. Yes, coupled with bad goaltending, at the series final game. These things happen.
Ya know what ELSE it means? C’mon. You know this one, if you’ve been paying attention. It means, “This is why you need to build a window of opportunity. If you don’t have that window, you risk your only chance on a Game 7 blowout. And then, sometimes, it’s right back to the drawing board. Pittsburgh was very slowly and intelligently built, via the draft. They’ve got their “window.” This is “back-to-back” Conference Finals for them. Maybe this will be their year? And even if it isn’t, there’s next year. And the year after that. Same deal with Detroit. The Red Wings will contend for years to come. Washington’s roster is good. They should ‘tweak it’ in the offseason, not overhaul it.
Rawhide
May 13th, 2009
10:18 pm
Britt - Certainly I have considered that. However, this was Tim’s story as told to me. If someone would like to tell “another side”…I’m all ears.
However…and I am speaking only for myself here…I think that when Tim heard DE make the comment about how the Thrashers organization had done everthing they could to reach out the the old Flames and alumni group, he kinda figure “that side of the story” had already been thrown out there and he has just now been able to respond to that.
HookyBob
May 13th, 2009
10:30 pm
Much as like Ovie, a loose cannon (or entire flotilla) if ever there was one,…I’m with Bob on this one. Crosby has won me over recently.
I’d lost a lot of respect for him over the course of this season. But it is a different Sid the Kid we see in the play-offs.
I don’t know if he’s matured, taken PR lessons from NHL brass, or what. But he is not whining or diving. He’s going into the tough area right in front of the net (brings back memories of Phil Esposito). He is setting up, or creating openings for linemates. In general setting a good example,..as you would want out of a captian. All without much fanfare.
As for the Flames – Thrasher connection or lack of,….damn, just damn.
Brendan
May 13th, 2009
11:26 pm
Sage of Bluesland, I think it’s a case of fans having hockey as a part of their culture; that is, they can’t envision a season where they don’t come out to hockey games at Philips Arena. Or, it’s a case of “fear of relocation,” a misplaced one to be sure, that drives the sale of tickets. But by now, even those who WANT to buy tickets know to WAIT until they’re discounted. Why pay FULL PRICE??
Okayyy. Now I’ve done it. This where a “die-hard” will tell me, “But Brendan, without that FULL PRICE REVENUE stream, the organization can’t afford to go out and buy free agents.” Hmmn. Interesting theory. But whose FAULT is that? Whose is it, really? Don’t say “Fans.” Is this team going to be $4 million or more above the floor of the cap on Opening Night? Probably not. Are the Atlanta Spirit, LLC, standing on the precipice of a MAXED CAP, “playoffs or bust” season? With ultimatums on the heads of Don Waddell and John Anderson, too? PFFT. Put … your hands … down.
These owners are probably NOT planning any such moves. And I’d be STUNNED if they did. The “plan,” such as it is not being discussed publicly, by ownership or management, is to continue the slow build through the draft, while blustering about “how close we are” to making the playoffs. At the league minimum payroll. Allrighteee, then.
But much more imporantly, if the organization wanted to win back fans, AND THEIR MONEY, they’d make the sort of fundamentally obvious moves, like firing Waddell and Dan Marr, that are necessary. So, it’s hard to FEEL SORRY for them. Especially when THEY ARE THE ONES IN CHARGE and CAN MAKE THOSE SORTS OF CHANGES. Fans can’t. Eventually, Sage, the Atlanta Spirit, LLC, will take a long, hard look in the mirror and realize that they, themselves, are the cause of ALL THEIR PROBLEMS. You can’t flourish when you’re too busy shooting yourself in the foot.
Jason(Darkhorse)
May 13th, 2009
11:48 pm
Really nice job Rawhide. Maybe you can take Terrence Moore’s spot at the paper. His spot, not his clueless negative spewing each week mind you.
Are you planning on pursuing DW or someone else for the franchise’s take on this perception and overall clueless take on how to get people in this town interested in them?
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 14th, 2009
3:25 am
I love it…ownership has been the root of the problems from the get-go, as evidenced in their delayed decision making removing the apparent best candidate from their GM pool, yet people still find a way to ignore that fact (as provided by Ecclestone) and focus on the under performing GM.
I find it funny where people displace their anger. Some yell at players like Kovalchuk or Lehtonen, others yell at Waddell, fans who pay (with their own money) to watch hocky, or even yell at everyone/anyone who dares to disagree with their opinion…all because the Thrashers don’t win consistently. There’s a reason we’re called fanatics, and it’s not exactly due to our sense of logic or reason.
There is one group of people involved in this equation that can do something to help fix the Thrashers. Yet, they sit by idly. Sports Illustrated has identified them as one of the 5 worst ownership groups in the NHL, in the company of MLSE, Predators Holding Group, and Charles-Freaking-Wang…that’s BAD company to be in.
In my opinion the ASG deserves every bit of blame and criticism that can be dolled out. But, I’m just another fanatic with an opinion and a keyboard.
Sage of Bluesland
May 14th, 2009
6:15 am
The dynamics of this are a bit more complex than just being the ownership’s fault. It’s like blaming a five-year old child for all of the havoc they create.
Simply put, it’s like a game of rock-paper-scissors. While ownership is a definite ‘portion’ of the cause of the real problem (where, at the top, most problems occur; see “Parents” in the case of the out-of-control five-year old child referenced above), there IS one group in the equation that actually have ‘power’ over even the owners.
Yes, that’s right–that underappreciated group that actually has ALL of the power (but can’t seem to recognize it, due to the smoke put forth by the minions and shallow-minded sheep) are the FANS/CUSTOMERS. The money in their pocket is craved by ownership (of any business) and is the engine which runs the entire machine. This is so obvious it’s not even debatable.
RanalloLamb is correct about one thing: fans not using their logic or reasoning. The basic economic facts above aren’t recognized because too many sheep, I mean “fans”, use emotion in their decision-making.
Thus, they get herded along to the slaughter because someone else makes the decision for them–and the false ‘reasoning’ and ‘logic’ appeal to their inner feelings…
Rock-paper-scissors, folks. There is one group that can influence even the ‘untouchable’ ownership. It’s YOU.
Thus, as I’ve stated to the emotional ‘horror’ of some, I wish the fans would put their wallets away when it comes to all things Thrashers and start becoming part of the solution instead of part of the problem. You just might be amazed at how much change can be effected.
Stop allowing the five-year old child to run the show. Parents, real ones anyway, step up and utilize discipline and establish rules and rewards/punishment for certain behaviors. But it’s not done out of emotional ‘mean-ness’; it’s done for love and responsibility.
Short-term pain, folks; Long-term benefit. Again, though, the choice is yours. Seeing some of the sheep waving their wittle Bwuewand fwags and preparing their spweadsheets, I don’t have much hope at all…
DB
May 14th, 2009
8:22 am
Wasn’t Harvey S. employed by Time Warner? Not the ASG? That aside, ownership in Atlanta has been given plenty of opportunities to present their case for the direction of the franchise. When questioned, the most susccinct response has been “Deal with it.” Rawhide, thank you for these 2 blogs (and all of the others as well). If only ownership was as passionate about the team as its fans.
Rawhide
May 14th, 2009
8:31 am
Jason(Darkhorse) – If someone ever contacted me I would definately give them the same attention. It would mean they were paying attention at least, right?
But in all honesty, if someone from the Thrashers organ-I-zation ever wanted to do so, they would probably get in touch with Chris Vivlamore.
DB – Yes…in the late 90s – early 2000s it was Time Warner… the Atlanta Spirit, LLC didn’t take over the Thrashers/Hawks/Philips until March 31, 2004.
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
9:23 am
Great read Bill… it’s very touching, and I feel for the old hockey fans that would want to see all that done.
Every owner and GM has the right to run the team however they see fit… right or wrong… it’s no different then the CEO who thought NEW COKE was a great idea… or Pepsi Clear.
I’ve dealt with enough corporate Marketing people to know that they don’t take advice from anyone… they don’t want to hear your suggestions… there is no comment box… if they didn’t think of it themselves, it’s not going to happen.
Maybe Burke or Fletcher come in here, and they embrace the Flames history… would Ted Turner though?… Would FUBAS?
The question REALLY is… would Burke or Fletcher have gotten more for $11 million that Don Waddell?… we’ll never know. It reminds me of the line in ‘Stand By Me’… “Gee Gordo, why couldn’t you have gotten breakfast food like Twinkies, Pez and Root Beer?”… “I don’t know Vern, maybe a more experienced shopper could have gotten more for your 7 cents.”
Smoothie
May 14th, 2009
9:36 am
If Arthur Blank didn’t ever listen to anyone, including his customers, he would not be as successful as he is today and he never would have turned things around as quickly as he did for the football franchise.
So telling us that “every GM or CEO” will run their business however they see fit is quite myopic and silly in my opinion. Sure, DW and ASG can continue to run this franchsie into the ground, but if they want to start making money again, they might want to start listening a little more closely to their customer base, which isn’t big enough to begin with. The fact remains (and this is documented in court), the ASG is hemmoraghing money fast and they better turn it around quickly before the end up back in court…for bankruptcy!
Bob
May 14th, 2009
9:46 am
“Wasn’t Harvey S. employed by Time Warner? Not the ASG?”
Yep, there’s been three ownership groups, to point at the ASG as the core problem is just laughable. The problem has been from Day 1 that each set of owners we’ve had aren’t hockey guys, and the first set of owners went out and hired a “hockey guy” to run things and Waddell has been in charge of all of the decisions since Day 1, and we are where we are.
Gee Hokie, that’s a toughie, this is going to take some deep analytical skills to figure out if Burke or Fletcher would have done a better job than Donnie. Boy, I’m going to have to think about that for a while, that’s a real stumper.
What are you talking about getting more with $11 million? The Spirit even let Waddell spend max cap his first two years, and he got us nothing. Nada.
Hokie, in case you truly wonder how we remember some of the doozies you type on here, it’s cause you’re so off base. Now you want to educate us on your take on corporate marketing? Let me help you here also on this take of yours, “Corporate Marketing Types” constantly give out surveys, conduct focus groups, perform market research, and diligently keep an eye on what their competitors are doing taking the best of breed ideas and incorporating them as their own. Why is that, Hokie? C’mon, think about it, you can figure it out. Oops, sorry, let me help you here . . . it’s because in corporate marketing you constantly take advice from others, the market, and incorporate the best ideas out there and what your customers are looking for and use them as your campaign, it’s what the job is all about, ya hump.
Ok, I’ve thought about it. Yeah, Brian Burke would also have us skating around in baby blue sweaters with no team identity, disjointed lineups that have no cohesion, no dmen, no centers, no top RW, a revolving door of broken goalies, no toughness, no fans in the seats, no playoff wins after 10 years, no respect from around the league, and would have alienated all of the long time hockey fans in this town as well as the NHL alumni in this town. Yeah, that’s what would have happened.
Sage, most of us get it, it’s why the seats are empty, that’s why we no longer support them with our dollars. That is what speaks to “corporate types” and that is what will finally affect the necessary change.
FormerIslesFan
May 14th, 2009
9:53 am
RH, I’ll keep it simple. I think these were great pieces. I think it is equally important that Ownership respond to the statements that have been made here, if not through you then through some other medium. But, it is patently obvious to any hockey fan in Atlanta (especially those of us that did not grow up in Atlanta) that there is a disconnect between the Atlanta Flames and the Atlanta Thrashers.
That to me is inexcusable.
There is a willing resource offering and waiting to be tapped and it is being intentionally not utilitzed. Why? Is it as TJ says or is there another side to the story?
Whichever, I for one would like to know the answer. Better yet, I’d like to see this situation rectified.
Tony C.
May 14th, 2009
9:53 am
gee I dunno. Let’s look at Fletcher’s overall record (keep in mind, he’s dealt with payrolls of all types: scrooge, medium & Cup or Bust):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Fletcher
granted, he tanked in Phoenix, but that seems to be a common theme for the Jets/’Yotes franchise.
Now let’s look at Waddell:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Waddell
Burke:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Burke_(ice_hockey)
and ol’ Paddy Quinn:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Quinn_(ice_hockey)
Something tells me Trader Cliff would’ve been able to make something worthwhile out of the shoestring budgets Waddell has labored under.
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
9:55 am
Smoothie… I don’t think the line “Deal with it” makes me think anyone is listening to suggestion.
Sigh… It’s funny how the warm fuzzy feeling we all had the last 3 months of the season is gone and we’re back to doom and gloom again.
We’re going to work ourselves up into a frenzy all through May and June, then the draft will come, we’ll pick Evander Kane, Waddell will trade for Pavel Kubina, we’ll sign Reasoner… maybe add Havlat or Cammalleri or Afinogenov or whoever… then everyone will be sunshines and rainbows again.
Smoothie
May 14th, 2009
10:11 am
GVH, I wasn’t talking about asshead Levenson. I was talking about your sweeping generalization about GM’s and CEO’s. I never said that the ASG was doing a good job of listening to its customers did I?
If Waddell really had his crap together, Marty Reasoner would have already been re-signed proactively. We own his rights and there is no excuse if DW lets him slip away because he put Marty on the back burner. Let’s just hope they have talked secretly or have a gentlemen’s agreement in place that allows Marty to gauge his market value by waiting until the end of the first week in July to sign.
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
10:11 am
Whichever, I for one would like to know the answer. Better yet, I’d like to see this situation rectified.
I concur.
Rawhide
May 14th, 2009
10:13 am
Tony C. – Well done. You may move to the front of the class.
Hip Czech
May 14th, 2009
10:14 am
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/hockey/nhl/05/08/nhl.owners/index.html
Kind of interesting the Phoenix ownership wasn’t listed in the bottom 5.
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
10:24 am
Smoothie… we have a misunderstanding… I agree with you.
What I’m trying to say is GM’s and CEO’s have a vision of how they think the company should operate… “Forget the past, we’re moving forward… we’ll call it NEW COKE”…
We’re obviously still in NEW COKE phase with the Thrashers… if Waddell wants to be stubborn about that, he has every right until ownership says otherwise or boots his ass out the door. If Pat Quinn wants to come in here afterwards and bring back Classic Coke… he has every right until ownership says otherwise or boots his ass out the door… “Not just throwback jerseys, Jimmy. Throwback EVERYTHING!”
Or, Waddell can read this article, gauge public interest, read our comments, and do something about it… like any good GM should.
Smoothie
May 14th, 2009
10:35 am
Unfortunately, we’re stuck with Waddell for the forseeable future. But I do believe DWad has learned from some of his mistakes. Problem is that he helped contribute to the alienation of the fanbase by being so complicit with his ownership. I just don’t get why Levenson must be the “point person” for the hockey side of the operation. Is it because he contributes the 2nd most capital to the business? Or are the other 5 pansies scared of him? Gearon seems to have a better awareness and business savvy, but then again, he allowed Billy Knight to draft Marvin Williams over Chris Paul.
Yes indeed GVH, their vision has failed pretty miserably. However, they still have a chance to rectify things IF they are serious about replacing Belkin and moving forward. Better yet, they are serious about selling the franchise to someone who gives a rat’s ass about hockey as well as its history in this city. We shall see.
But I don’t agree with Sage that every fan needs to abandon the franchise completely. Is it the players fault that they were brought in to play hockey for a bumbling management / ownership group? NO! I’m not going to turn my back on these players when they show that they care and provide entertainment value in my life. And it’s not as though the ASG is making any money. What is the estimate on operating losses over 5 years? $150 M?? Eventually they will run out of money or perhaps someone will make them an offer they can’t refuse. Hopefully, that lease agreement with Philips is as ironclad as we’re being told by Custance, Foley and Don Waddell.
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
11:00 am
I’ll agree that Waddell has been a “Yes, man” because he even said himself at the Town Hall Meeting “he likes having a job.” Couple that with “I can’t wait to write a book about this” and what do you get… a guy who has his hands tied.
And I’ll also agree with others that it’s “no excuse” and there have been a lot of excuses… but damn me for thinking so, I say we have a good thing going right now. I think Waddell and Marr are getting better at their jobs. We have great prospects, a great new coach and just maybe we are a “few players away” from being contenders.
Now, for the off-ice product… my suggestion to Marketing… give up the gimics… take off the suit and tie, throw on a T-shirt and let’s be more lose about this… it’s not that hard… if the old Flames players want to be involved, by God… LET THEM!! You’d be crazy not to.
Spud Webb
May 14th, 2009
11:07 am
Britt you work for the clowns known as the ASG??
Rawhide, great, GREAT job. I do feel sick to my stomach though. &*%^ everywhere, I mean I just curse & curse. SICK, these guys are jokes, I WISH THEY WOULD come talk to you since our “beat” writer seems to be on vacation. Why are you having to get this information? I love it, keep it up. Shame on the ASG & most of all, DW. The other guys are “business” men, Donnie knows the history of hockey and should be absolutly ASHAMED of himself for allowing this to happen or not happen (depends on how you look at it). %&$% UGH, the beat goes on.
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
11:42 am
Bob… the focus groups come AFTER you’ve come up with the slogans and campaigns… the campaigns are based on what the GM and Vice President see as the vision for the company… what they’re trying to accomplish…focus groups would have been conducted after “Blueland” was decided.
Maybe they send out surveys, but at the end of the day, it’s that V.P. at the end of the conference table that says, “we’re not doing a throwback, we’re going with Blueland.”
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
11:48 am
Bob… another thing, they change Marketing people at these companies like they change their underwear… I used to know one of the marketing people with the Thrashers… I couldn’t tell you if they could talk hockey more than the man in the moon, but this person ran some damn good campaigns… the Hummer two minute drill, the year lease on a BMW, the Philips prize packs, the autograph sessions at every Saturday home game, the KB Home giveaway… what happened to all that kind of stuff?
From what I heard… last year’s slogan “Become One” came from an Intern.
Britt
May 14th, 2009
11:59 am
Spud hell no I do not work for AS, I simply like to hear both sides instead of just one. Kinda makes it easier to see the big picture that way now doesn’t it?
World be Free
May 14th, 2009
12:14 pm
As I have been saying, we need to include our former Atlanta Flames AND get Pat Quinn involved-he’s available!
Alan
May 14th, 2009
12:19 pm
I simply like to hear both sides instead of just one
The one side, as we know it from a Thrashers broadcast, was when Darren Elliot said, basically, the former Flames were to be brought into the fold, yet the Flames never responded.
Rawhide went out and got Tim to comment, which gave us “the big picture” — and gave us something many of us suspected for a good while.
I’d love to hear an Atlanta Spirit rebuttal. Somehow, I doubt we’ll get one. They seem to like pretending problems don’t exist and hoping it goes away.
R. Stroz
May 14th, 2009
12:20 pm
Isn’t the Great Octo-Cluster, or FUBAS, or DASG, suppossed to go back to court next week?
Does anyone remember when?
World be Free
May 14th, 2009
12:21 pm
Who are the 3 owners worse than Spirit? Bill Wirtz and Harold Ballard are both dead!
World be Free
May 14th, 2009
12:29 pm
Top unrestricted free agents-the Sedins were drafted after thr Thrash took Stefan!
1. Jay Bouwmeester
Towering defensman will be a hot ticket. There’s a good chance he will leave the Panther’s and I wouldn’t be surprised if he got over 20 offers.
2. Marian Hossa
Red Wings sniper notched 40 goals this year. The 31 year old talked about his next contract being his “last one” and hinted that he’d be looking for a long term deal. If he can’t be extended by the Red Wings his phone will be ringing off the hook in July.
3. Daniel and Henrik Sedin
81 points a piece this year! These two have been really consistant over the past several seasons always posting up over 70 pts. I don’t see them splitting up, and their combined salaries could be up around $11-14 million. That kind of cap hit could take several teams out of the equation. Staying in Vancouver is a possibility.
4. Marian Gaborik
If he gets and stays healthy, this guy will be the prize of this years UFA pool. But there is that risk with Gaborik because of his medical record. Still a potential 90+ point guy, and a game breaker. Gaborik is one of the game’s elite talents. He turned down 8 years and over $60 million from Minnesota last fall, which could mean he wants out of Minnesota. Some speculate he didn’t get along with Lemaire which could have something to do with his not signing the extension. So we’ll see…
5. Martin Havlatt
Hawks leading scorer posted 78 points this season. This guy is just 27, and like Gaborik is lethal when healthy. Lots of talent and should be a beauty if he hits the open market.
6. Scott Niedermyer
If he decides to leave Anaheim, Scotty has proven he is still an elite player. The future hall of famer would bring a great player on and off the ice along with so many other intangeables to any team that signs him.
7. Mike Cammalleri
Has scored a total of 118 goals in his 4 post-lockout seasons. (Averaging 29.5 per season). He’ll be 27 in June. Size is a concern but he is not a soft player and should cash in big. Oh, and he’s a filthy sniper.
8. Mattius Ohlund
32 year old defensman is a bear. Big, grizzled, veteran defensman will attract lots of interest if Vancouver doesn’t get a deal done before July 1.
9. Alex Kovalev
Gamble. Here’s a guy who was a top 10 scorer in the league last season, and played like border line 2nd liner this season. Kovalev has the tools to be a great scoring threat, but at age 36 he might need to go somewhere that he doesn’t have to be “the guy”. He could be a great signing for the right price, provided he delivers.
10. Nik Antropov
Nik is a legitimate 25-30 goal man and is a quality guy for standing in front of the net, grabbing rebounds or tipping pucks, and providing a screen. Could be a boost for a team with a weak power play who need someone to provide that traffic in front. Nik is also a solid two-way player and has an award winning smile.
Big body. Amazing skater….
10. (tie) Brian Gionta
Small speedy winger has a lot of offensive tools. Its not unlike Lou Lamerello to let guys like this walk when they want that big pay raise, and I could definitely see him testing the UFA waters.
Here’s some other’s I won’t place them in any order:
Keith Tkachuk
I don’t think he’ll leave St.Louis, but you never know. Keith was a monster for the Blues in the playoffs even though he was held scoreless and they were swept. He was throwing huge hits, winning most of his draws, and just being Keith out there. You heard his name more than anyone’s except Luongo in that series. I think the veteran who is on the home stretch of a cupless career could look to sign at a moderate salary with a legitimate contender in the hopes of winning a cup.
Viktor Kozlov
34 year old. Great big body with soft hands. Due to age, he would be best suited for a 1 to 2 year deal, 3 years at most. Could bring some secondary scoring to a team needing one more guy. (Similar to Montreal’s reasoning for bringing in Lang last fall). Viktor can still score highlight reel goals, as witnessed in game 6 of the first round.
Mike Knuble
36 year old Knuble, is a consistant secondary scorer. A big body guy who likes to play physical and be that solid support winger for any top line forward.
Chris Neil
30 year old is a tough guy and a yapper. Quality role player. Not a lot of offensive skills, he typically doesn’t score a lot but there is reason to believe there will be lots of interest out there based on his presence on the ice.
John Madden
36 year old checking centre will probably stick with the Devils. But if not, he’d be a quality pick up for a team looking for a reliable defensive forward, and a veteran leader.
“Speedin” Stevie Sullivan aka “Sully”
I love Sully! This guy can fly and score goals too. He recovered after having not played for over a year and scored at a decent pace for Nashville at the end of the season. He’s 34 years old, and because of health he could be a guy worth taking a chance on for a lot of teams. Watch for him to be a steal somewhere at around $2-3 million and put up over 60 points.
Saku Koivu
Long time Habs captain could be on the way out. If so, there will be interest in the feisty centre who can provide secondary scoring and solid defensive play.
Todd Bertuzzi
Bert can still play. I think Calgary will try to bring him back, he seems to be a good fit there, but if he hits the market he’ll bring some size and skill to any teams line up.
Jere Lehtinen
Long time Star could stick with Dallas. He’s a great player, but health has been a concern in recent years and he’s now 36. Still, the former Selke winner could be a big boost at a reasonable price to some team in need of a winner.
Francois Beauchemin
Quality d-man. Might want out of Anaheim with the arrival of Ryan Whitney. However depending on Scott Niedermyer’s future with the team Beauchemin might want to stay. This guy could actually be one of the best signings in the offseason.
Spud Webb
May 14th, 2009
12:36 pm
Give me Chris Neil, put him on the 4th line, let Bolts go.
Alan
May 14th, 2009
12:51 pm
Stroz, this was posted in the paper on 6 March:
The ongoing ownership dispute between the Hawks and Thrashers partners wrapped up in Montgomery County Circuit Court on Thursday. But lawyers will return on May 8 to make their final arguments before the judge makes his decision. That probably will take several additional weeks.
So, lawyers are (probably still) in court, but we might not get a ruling until July.
What a clusterf#&k.
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
1:09 pm
Steve Sullivan would be right up Waddell’s alley… ala. Slava Kozlov and Jason Williams… star quality players with injury history that come at a discount.
Never thought I’d want Nik Antropov but he could bring the size up front we need, but I see NYR retaining him.
I like Ohlund, but he’s gonna get overpaid by someone else ($5 million, maybe)… I’d rather spend that on a scoring threat and then get a guy like Hal Gill for $3.5-4 million.
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 14th, 2009
1:09 pm
Alright, I’ve tried to keep from the back and forth banter because it will always degrade (notice how there was name calling in the first response…way to set a standard), but here goes anyways:
Yep, there’s been three ownership groups, to point at the ASG as the core problem is just laughable. — Bob
There have been three ownership entities, by your statement. None have fired the “obvious” problem. Two ownership groups have been given a GM/EVP (one even HIRED him), and none of them have had the awareness to fire or simply not re-sign the individual. If the root of the problem is the GM (your stance), and the only people able to remove him are his ownership groups (doesn’t matter which one, pick out of the three), yet he remains employed…who is the culprit?
“Wasn’t Harvey S. employed by Time Warner? Not the ASG?” — DB
Yes, he was. And he too didn’t do what hindsight shows would’ve been the right decision. Ownership (Time Warner) enabled repeated failure, and they past that “standard” to the ASG along with the rights to the Thrashers/Hawks/Phillips Arena. Thus “ownership” has been the root of the problems from the beginning…put a different picture or name, yet it’s the same result from each group.
I’m not only blaming the ASG, but they’re the current ownership group not doing anything to keep the Thrashers from becoming anything than mediocre. It’s easy to identify WHERE the problem lies, but it makes more sense to criticize WHY the problem exists in the attempt to rectify the root cause, instead of bashing your head over what the problem is. If you fix or eliminate the root of the problem, the problem is also eliminated.
If a 5 year old child steals once, you blame the child. If the 5 year old child steals incessantly, you should blame the child but moreover blame the parents for not doing anything to stop the child. If the parents don’t rectify the problem, does it serve a purpose to continue blaming the child?? The child doesn’t know any better until told differently from their authority figure…and the parents are allowing for such behavior from the child by NOT DOING A THING.
Back to our situation, Thrashers ownership have never done a thing about who everyone likes to identify as the problem. They hemorrhage money, do shady deals to sell the team, tell the fans to deal with price hikes, yet the continue to employ The Problem. At some point it becomes useless to continue to point and say “THERE, I SEE THE PROBLEM!!” and hope it fixes itself. That point was two years ago…the current ownership group didn’t catch on (they still haven’t), and the problem still exists.
Until the ownership group has a fundamental change in their business model, nothing meaningful will happen with this franchise. All successes will be in spite of the ownership group, and all failures will be due to the ownership group. Until they care about the on-ice product, this team will be far from the level we all wish the team would achieve.
And yes, that criticism goes for past groups and future groups if they continue to enable mediocrity at any level of the franchise.
Tony C.
May 14th, 2009
1:12 pm
I’d love to see us get Havlat & Antropov. That’s right I said and!
As far as defenders go, I like Beauchemin & Ohlund in that order. However, I just don’t see them coming to ATL UNLESS Beauchemin heard really good things from Schneider during his stay here.
I’d also look at making a trade/offer sheet for Barker up in Chicago.
Thoughts?
Ice dog
May 14th, 2009
1:25 pm
who is the 3rd ownership group you keep referring too? I only count 2 separate owners of the Thrashers.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
1:25 pm
I’d take Beauchemin and Koivu. And I’d be lucky to get that much. Anyone hear any news about the cap limit for 2009-10? Stay the same? Up a fraction? Down a fraction? Remember, the smaller the cap, the better it is for smaller or cash-strapped markets. Read: Ours.
If the cap actually shrank to $47 million, Atlanta could be back in business. But that’s a big drop from $56.7 million. I don’t see it getting smaller than $55 million. The NHL has to look out for Detroit, remember. And Detroit wants to keep Hossa. If possible.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
1:26 pm
Ted Turner, AOL-TIME-WARNER, and Atlanta Spirit, LLC. That’s three.
World be Free
May 14th, 2009
1:27 pm
Anyone think we should go for Briere? Philly would take a used puck bag just to get rid of him. I know about his injury history and the big contract, but…….
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
1:35 pm
Tony… I was gonna say the same thing about Barker in my last post, but was afraid of catching the “RFA’s are too expensive” wraith.
I would prefer him over Beauchemin and Ohlund who are gonna get overpaid.
However, an offer starting at $2 million for Barker, you’d have to surrender a 1st and 3rd round pick… $1.99 million is as high as you can go to only surrender a 2nd round pick, which I would be willing to give, but I’m sure Chicago would be more than happy to match.
R. Stroz
May 14th, 2009
1:40 pm
ranallo10 – Name calling, who would do that. That said, Waddell is the GM by default, not by choice.
It’s like picking a girl to dance with once everyone has already picked all of the other girls. And, just like the last girl picked, her description is as follows, she has a great personality.
Now, think about it, when people describe Waddell, they say he is a nice guy. Just what one would expect from the last GM to dance with, good personality and nothing else.
Ice dog
May 14th, 2009
1:45 pm
Turner merged with Time Warner in 1996 http://money.cnn.com/1996/09/12/deals/timeturner/
So Turner and Time Warner do not count as separate owners.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
1:47 pm
I’d rather take the Briere money and make sure we sign (1) Pavelec, (2) Little, and/or (3) Lehtonen. That assumes we agree to pay whatever Kovalchuk demands to stay. I know I harp on this too much, but we must give our draft picks a reason to believe they can have a career playing in Atlanta. Otherwise, players will view their time in Atlanta like it were a “layover” at Hartsfield. Who wants players who are eyeballin’ exit upon arrival? Or even on draft day? Not meee.
I, personally, think it’s important to draft well … and re-sign those players. Ideally, that would be done PROACTIVELY. It sends a message to the players that they’re valuable to the organization. Plus, there’s the continuity of roster, and familiarity, and team identity factors, etc. To continue to throw together a “hodge-podge” of players, who’ll all be gone in two years, is like combining all your slivers of soap into one bar, for your shower. It’s ridiculous.
Priority #1 ought to be … “in-house business.” Re-sign the essential Thrasher draft picks. Plus, we’ve got some Category VI UFA guys to re-sign, like Crabb, Oysterick, C. Wilson, maybe even Mike Hoffman. And let’s not forget that Rich Peverley, the waiver claim player, becomes eligible for a UFA PROACTIVE contract on July 1, 2009. There’s plenty of players who need contracts or who are “eligible” for contracts, come July 1.
One last time, I’d keep Lehtonen ANNND Pavelec. We drafted them. We have cap room for them. And together, the competition for #1 status ought to make for a better product. I don’t care which one is the starter and which one the backup. We paid a HEFFFFFTY PRICE for both of these goalies. To let them go for “insufficient return” for what were “picks #2 and #41″ seems awefully foolish. Plus, we passed up #8 to move back to #12, to acquire pick #41. As Casey Kasem might say, “The hits just keep on comin’.”
Goalies take TIME to develop. Luckily, the Thrashers appear to have that luxury of time. To draft goalies, develop them, only to see them florish elsewhere … is the just the crowning jewel of failure, organizationally.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
1:48 pm
Time Warner, then, owned the Thrashers in 1999, by process of time machine travel?
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
1:48 pm
Brendan… Ted had already been bought out by Time Warner in 1996 before they added the Thrashers… then AOL merged with Time Warner in 2001.
Ice dog
May 14th, 2009
1:56 pm
Time Warner bought out Ted Turner in 1996. Time Warner bought the new hockey expansion team called the Atlanta Thrashers in 1998. Ted never owned the team. Time Warner merging with AOL has nothing to do with it either because Time Warner still owned the team. Time Warner then sold it to Atlanta Spirit. Nice sarcasm with the time machine travel line but get your facts straight.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
2:01 pm
Fair enough. I didn’t recall anyone BUT Ted Turner being the VISUAL ENTITY IN CHARGE. So, Ted didn’t have “exclusive control” over the Thrashers, at ANY POINT? Good to know.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
2:05 pm
I just did a Briere post. But it didn’t take. It’s too long to start over, but the gist of which is this: I’d rather take the Briere money and use it to lock up our own Thrasher draft picks, for the coming years, PROACTIVELY, and hopefully at a bit of a discount, too.
Briere is a good player. I think so, anyway. But on the budget we’ll have, we’ll be hard pressed just to keep who we need to off our own roster.
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 14th, 2009
2:06 pm
So was it two or one gunmen in the grassy knoll? Does it matter…the team is still dead (relatively).
Stroz — The Waddell by default was an interesting aspect to this whole story, in my opinion. It’s yet another proof of how poor management leads to mismanagement. If ownership/decision makers in charge of hiring a GM had their crap together, they might’ve been able to pick the one they wanted out of the three. Except, as Ecclestone tells it, the ownership group let one of the options fall into their laps.
As I said, it’s not Waddell’s “fault” for being picked over Burke or Fletcher (or due to them no longer being available), it’s not Waddell’s “fault” for getting re-signed multiple times by different ownership groups. Nobody is holding him accountable for his errors, and are instead enabling him to continue to make them (I assume it’s in the hope that he learns from those mistakes and gradually improves).
If I were a new owner of a company who had a crappy sales team, I wouldn’t just say “maybe my owning the team will change things around here”, I would bring in people that fit my plan for the company. ASG didn’t do that, they stuck with the cheapest option available to them.
We’re still paying for that, and will be until either Waddell is removed or he has enough time to make every mistake in the book to the point he improves by doing the opposite of what his instincts tell him to do. (I don’t know if that makes sense)
Buzilla in CT
May 14th, 2009
2:11 pm
Big Willy Tilly – Great articles. I was wondering if you tried (or could) get a comment from Darren Elliott. Since he was the one tranmitting the notion that the old Flamers didn’t want to be part of the the Trashers, maybe he could shed some light on this. Maybe he was instucted to do this by the higher ups? Maybe he got the cold shoulder from an ex Flamer? Maybe he is just ticked that he was a crappy goalie?
Anyway, since you are now part of “THE MEDIA” maybe he could grant you an interview or something. Maybe even an email correspondence.
Just a thought.
R. Stroz
May 14th, 2009
2:19 pm
Does the Thrashers organization really lack identity?
Nope, as ranallo10 pointed out, they have an identity: CHEAP.
Ice dog
May 14th, 2009
2:21 pm
Wait, Ted Turner was a VISUAL ENTITY in charge? How many games did he go to? How many press conferences did he show up to? How was he visual?
Buzilla in CT
May 14th, 2009
2:23 pm
How many cans of Crunk Juice would Lil’ Jon have to sell in order to buy the Thrashers?
Buzilla in CT
May 14th, 2009
2:23 pm
**YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!**
**OOOO KAY!!!!**
World be Free
May 14th, 2009
2:28 pm
Thanks for your thoughts Brendan-just lookin’ for a playmaker with some guts and Danny fits the bill
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
2:30 pm
Actually, Ranallo, that did make perfect sense. At least, to me, it did. Waddell is “blameless” about how he still has a job. He should milk it for every penny he can get. Why not? He has an “adoring” ownership? They like him. They respect him. Waddell should hold a seminar for his fellow GM’s on how to keep ownership at bay. He’s doing a tremendous job of it.
From a fan’s perspective, I think there’s plenty of room for blame to be divided among the ownership and the GM, and scouting Dept., etc. And, you’re right, even if every instinct Waddell ever had were wrong, he’d still improve the club via the lottery draft and waiver wire claims, as a bottom feeder. It’s almost impossible to stay at the bottom of the league in perpetuity. I actually advocate the slowwww build process. It works, so long as the lottery picks aren’t “busts” and that the lottery picks get re-signed when they are eligible for their RFA contracts. Waiver wire claims are a bigger gamble, but sometimes pay off. Re-entry waivers, as you’ve often said, are the best deal of all, since the gaining team only has to pay HALF of the remaing salary for the season for the player acquired.
I think the AS, LLC’s plan … is just to sell off the Thrashers for a tidy profit. And think that objective is very doable. Unless Belkin steps in to prevent it. But, seriously, as long as Belkin gets what “he thinks” is his fair share of the Thrashers sale, why would he object?
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
2:30 pm
Ranallo… I’ll add another quote to the argument… Bernie Mullen went on The Fan last year after stepping down and said, “The Teams have the right guys in place at GM, they just need time to grow into their jobs.” I guess essentially getting past the learning curve.
Of course, here’s where everyone will jump in with “10 YEARS!!!” … should have been fired 3 years ago… 5 years ago… blah blah blah.
But, of the mindset, “What have you done for me LATELY?” Do we think Waddell is past the learning curve or is this team, on today’s date… May 14th, 2009… completely lost?
Rawhide
May 14th, 2009
2:32 pm
Zillanator – I’ll respond the same way I did to Jason(Darkhorse)…I would if DE ever approached me I would give him the same respect with his story as I did for Tim. However, if he … or DW… ever felt the need to respond, It would more than likely be via CV. And I’m good with that.
However, if the Thrashers organ-I-zation felt the need to respond, whether that’s Eliot or Waddell, I would hope they would do so directly with Ecclestone and the alumni group. I’m on board with the others who would simply like to see the issue resolved.
Tony C.
May 14th, 2009
2:36 pm
Zilla-I don’t know, but I stopped bootlegging his music in hopes that rumor that he & Jermaine & Chris Tucker were going to buy into FUBAS.
Ok that’s a lie.
But I would love for the pre-game music to be Lil Jon… of course old schoolers don’t think hip hop & hockey mix…..suckers.
Alan
May 14th, 2009
2:45 pm
How many cans of Crunk Juice would Lil’ Jon have to sell in order to buy the Thrashers?
I’d buy the product if it meant he would buy in.
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
2:58 pm
I can see the Billboards next year already… Lil Jon and Evander Kane… ATLANTA THRASHERS 2009-2010 “OKAAAAAYYY”
Ilya is a hip hop fan, right? I think Bogosian is too.
Of course, that’s not going to help our argument with bringing in Eccelstone and those guys.
Sage of Bluesland
May 14th, 2009
3:06 pm
“…Bernie Mullen went on The Fan last year after stepping down and said, “The Teams have the right guys in place at GM, they just need time to grow into their jobs.” I guess essentially getting past the learning curve….”
Well, that resolves all, folks. GaVaSheep said that Bernie Mullen said that we’ve got THE ANSWER at GM–just give them time!
Wow. That would be funny if it weren’t so ridiculous.
(Who is Bernie what’s-his-name again? What did he EVER do?)
Try again.
Alan
May 14th, 2009
3:06 pm
I know Enstrom is. I remember questioning why he was so immersed in American hip-hop when the stuff from Sweden (that I’ve heard, anyway) is so much better.
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
3:18 pm
Well, that resolves all, folks. GaVaSheep said that Bernie Mullen said that we’ve got THE ANSWER at GM–just give them time!
I didn’t say that at all, douchebag.
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
3:19 pm
I wasn’t resolving anything, I was submitting it for argument.
Darren Elliot
May 14th, 2009
3:21 pm
Waddell told me to say that ex-Flames players wanted nothing to do with helping this new francise unless they were going to get paid hansomely for it. Since Waddell has only about a hundred bucks to spend on finding players to fill this cluster puck of a lineup, he had to turn his back on Tim and his gang of old hooligans. I was a patsey. But the ladies love my salt and pepper hair….and my five hole
ABBA
May 14th, 2009
3:21 pm
Thank you for buying our CDs Alan.
Tony C.
May 14th, 2009
3:26 pm
Alan- Swedish Hip Hop better than ‘Merican? really? um… uh…. next time we get to hang out together remind me to give you a Little Brother CD. Also, check out Atlanta’s own Dillion Mauer.
Now as far as metal-I’ll give it up, the Swedes make some guuuuuuud metal.
ThrasherFan
May 14th, 2009
3:33 pm
What I’ve realized while reading these posts is just how small the “Thrasher Community” is. I saw 79 posts and thought, “WOW” lots of people involved here. But it’s the same 4-5 people all throughout the thread.
The Thrashers need more fans…
ThrasherFan
May 14th, 2009
3:34 pm
Swedish Metal is definitely better than the American version. Properly trained musicians them.
Alan
May 14th, 2009
3:43 pm
next time we get to hang out together remind me to give you a Little Brother CD.
Bet. You bring your Little Brother CD, and I’ll bring you a Looptroop CD.
You can also check them out on Youtube to see if you’re interested, first.
What can I say? I like the underground and I like overseas stuff (Norwegian hip-hop is awesome, too, by the way). I don’t like some of the utter crap that gets played on the radio today.
Swedish Metal is definitely better than the American version
Metallica has absolutely nothing on Opeth!
Cousin John
May 14th, 2009
3:45 pm
Thrasherfan they also need more topics. It’s not just 79 posts by about 4-5 people. It’s 79 blogs about the same 4-5 topics (which usually all come back to Waddell and the Atlanta Spirit Group). Occasionally someone chimes in with something funny like Swedish rap that makes me laugh. Now let’s get back to griping about ownership.
ThrasherFan
May 14th, 2009
3:50 pm
Good point Cousin John. I just wonder what percentage of the “fan” base actually care about these ownership and GM issues. Atlanta is a fair weather sports town. If you win, fans come out and support you: ex. Thrasher Playoff Season. Falcons this year, Hawks this year, etc etc.
This is a horrible sports town in general. Wait… now someone is going to chime in on how if only DW the Fraud and the Spiritless group were out of the picture, the Thrash would win and we wouldn’t be lambs and sheep anymore.
*Shrugs*
Disgrace about the Flames situation though – always wondered why there is no mention at Phillips and when the Flames come to town it’s really no big thing.
Stat Man
May 14th, 2009
3:51 pm
Just shows what some teams do to show history. The Thrashers are pathetic in this area as is clearly pointed out in this fine article. The Calgary Flames, however, continue to use the old Flames “A” on their jersey’s for their Alternate Captains.
Talk about a mountainous gap in showing the differences of two organizations with regards to having class!
Sad that the old Flames had enforcers (I STILL remember a game against the Blues where they handed out about 200 penalty minutes), “The Downtown Connection” (Vail, Lysiak & Chouinard if I remember correctly), Johnny Reb and his rebel flag and the Painted Lady with her well placed “A”. By comparison the Thrashers have ownership that could care less.
In 2007 I went to 15 games, in 2008 I went to 13 games, last year I went to 7 games. As my youngest daughter gets older and the main reason I go is usually for her to see Thrash, the number of games will continue to decline until the team does something to encourage me to spend MEGA BUCKS to go!
Midfield
May 14th, 2009
4:05 pm
Brendan, your post about Don kind of made me laugh. I imagined him in a picture between Zhitnik and Rucchin – all smiling – somewhere on display at Philips. Or, on the dart-board at TJs?
Cousin John
May 14th, 2009
4:11 pm
Thrasherfan it only takes one goof from Canada to come in and point out some of those things and watch the 4-5 people get riled up. They’ll tell you how the Flames were great and made the playoffs year after year. What they don’t tell you is that 3 out of 4 teams in the division made the playoffs and there was mass expansion back then and easy to compete. They complain about the Thrashers not winning a playoff game yet. But they are silent that the Flames never won a playoffs series. The hail Ted Turner even as the first owner. But they are silent that Turner bought the Hawks from Cousins in 76 and wanted nothing to do with the Flames (which eventually led to some disputes that led to the Flames leaving town). They say the Flames were financially stable, but they are silent about the Flames never getting a local tv contract and being in a financially poor condition. They say the Thrashers were great at the beginning and are only going through a decrease in ticket sales due to ownership. They are silent that the Flames went through the same decrease in ticket sales before they left. I can go on but I don’t want to give the troll from Canada any more ammunition. Rawhide have you looked into who else was in management for the Thrashers and what they thought about things?
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 14th, 2009
4:16 pm
Being critical and being a fan typically go hand-in-hand. This doesn’t make you a “fair weather” or “band wagon” fan, it merely makes you want more out of your favorite franchise. Some people enjoy the game even though they don’t agree with the management. Those people are not less of fans, or less critical towards the team, but rather place their enjoyment of seeing live hockey in Atlanta as a higher priority than their enjoyment of being critical towards the team they support as a fan.
To each his own really, because clearly there is no right or wrong when we’re talking about 5000+ individuals who all consider themselves “die hard Thrasher fans”.
Changing gears really quickly, did anybody see how dejected the Canadians were after losing the World Championship to Russia? First, Doan knocks a Russian’s glove into the stands during the celebration (which apparently Canadian players thought was excessive). Then they all receive their medals with the expected dragged and beaten expressions on their face. But what I found priceless was Lindey Ruff’s reaction when he got the silver…he basically gave Messier the “dead fish” handshake, rolled his eyes when Messier put the medal over his neck, and then kinda looked at it like “pssh, I absolutely hate this color”.
It was an interesting aspect of seeing the runners-up reaction immediately after the game…I was curious if anyone else saw it and found it interesting too?
Tony C.
May 14th, 2009
4:21 pm
Cousin John- My point about the difference between fan support for the Flames and for the Thrashers-ok neither has won a playoff series, but also, pretty much their whole run here the Flames enjoyed good gate numbers-even compared to franchises in “natural” hockey locations… I mean that the Flames were a hot ticket (apologies for the pun). Thrashers games, I have become accustomed to walking up to the ticket window and paying say $20/per and then walking down to the lower-bowl and sitting in $70/per seats.
Trust me, you couldn’t replicate that feat (adjusting for building name, inflation etc) during the Atlanta Flames era.
Cousin John
May 14th, 2009
4:24 pm
I don’t think you can say that just because someone goes to a game of a losing team that they aren’t critical. Are you saying no one is critical of UGA football during their crap years before Richt even though they still sold out a big chunk of that stadium? How about a school like South Carolina that hasn’t one a thing but sells out all the time? No one critical there? You can be critical and still go to the games. It’s not an either/or scenario. You don’t have to choose if you want to be critical or if you want to watch the team play live.
Cousin John
May 14th, 2009
4:29 pm
Tony the Flames decreased in ticket sales as the years went on. I would love to see numbers that say otherwise. Yeah the initial year or two were great but so were the Thrashers when we had 17-18,000 per game. There was a reason that the Hawks were sold locally and the Flames were not. I’m pissed because I see it happening again.
Obama
May 14th, 2009
4:53 pm
Ti-Cat and Cousin John need a job. One will suffice for both.
polskidawg
May 14th, 2009
5:00 pm
Rawhide – an excellent series of articles.
Having had the pleasure of working with Tim and Eric in the late 80’s, and making Willi’s acquaintance during that time also, its clear that they feel very strongly about the Thrasher’s seeming disregard for them and the general Flames alumni group.
Balancing Tim’s bias with the factual time-line of events, forces us to recognize that a strong majority of Tim’s assessment is correct.
The experience and recorded success of Cliff Fletcher or/and Brian Burke parallels Tim’s view that they would have likely created a greater amount of success than Don Waddell. That seems clear to reasonably thinking (i.e. not emotional) people.
I personally and completely with Tim’s view on the matter of “style” or identity, and that Fletcher understood the southern market far better than the current management group. Those of us from the 70’s loved the Flames style – rough and tumble, big, nasty, etc., but with enough skill to light the lamp.
Don’t get me wrong, those of you that defend the current administration – if the Thrash were small and fast AND winning, southern folks would still enjoy the success.
It’s just my opinion that southern college football fans (me), NASCAR fans, “pro” wrestling fans, etc want a team that plays with an edge.
The Thrash do not now, nor have ever.
World be Free
May 14th, 2009
5:07 pm
The Thrash don’t play with an edge? Ask Buffalo when they were “fighting” for a playoff spot in the last 10 days of the season. The Sabres came to Philips and were run out of the rink by the Thrashers, who had nothing to play for other than pride. I think most of the Thrashers played tough in the 2nd half, even Slava from time to time.
The edge is there, we need 1-2 more players to generate some wins so we can be in the hunt after Christmas. People stopped coming when they don’t see measureable improvements.
And they’d so the same in Canada or other hockey markets too (except Toronto).
Doesn’t matter who the owners are folks, the game’s won on the ice.
Tony C.
May 14th, 2009
5:32 pm
And yes the Flames did see a decrease in sales…after it became apparent that Cousins was having a firesale and the team’s days as the Atlanta Flames were numbered.
I mean honestly, after the Lysiak trade, the writing on the wall was in day-glo colors and braile.
Glovesave29
May 14th, 2009
6:31 pm
The Flames were not alone in seeing declining attendance in the end. It had nothing to do with them leaving (as it was still not known at the time the season ended) but had everything to do with the economy of the late 1970’s.
Chris just posted a new blog. He had a long conversation with DW. Don admists to not contacting Toby after his injury. Says a lot about the quality of the man. I’ve always said he was a bad GM but a good person. Actions like this make me think otherwise…
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
6:37 pm
Midfield, I can see that dartboard now!
Hockey Biltong
May 14th, 2009
8:42 pm
World Be Free,
How about us siging The Mule from Detroit. Isn’t he going to be a free agent???
R. Stroz
May 14th, 2009
8:55 pm
Nope, Mule has re-signed with the Big Red Borg.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4061069
However, Hossa hasn’t re-signed. Chuckle Chuckle.
World Be Free
May 14th, 2009
9:15 pm
Mule would have been great. I think he resigned to 2040.
Maybe we shouldn’t have given Kunitz away for nothing.
We need a playmaker, feed Kovy and take some pressure off Little on the 2nd line.
World Be Free
May 14th, 2009
9:17 pm
The Mule would have been great. I think he resigned until 2040 or something.
I believe Bertuzzi will be available.
Rawhide
May 14th, 2009
9:58 pm
One of the nice features about this new publishing website is that it allows me to see who links my stuff to there site.
Here is a Calgary Flames blog with a few responses regarding this dicussion.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
10:50 pm
Hey guys, the Ducks almost did it. They trailed 3-1, but came back to tie it up. With 3:00 left in regulation, Dan Cleary scored for Detroit, to avoid the overtime. Detroit will host Chicago in the CF.
Pittsburgh can host the CF if Carolina scores in the overtime. That’s right, folks. Right now, Game Seven is about to go into overtime. The game is on Channel 771 on Center Ice, Comcast, and it’s on Versus, too. In the 1st round, Carolina trailed NJ 3-2 LATE in the 3rd period. The ‘Canes rallied for two goals in less than a minute to win the game and take the series.
In this round, the ‘Canes got up, 3-1. But it’s been Boston ever since. A goal by Carolina makes it all a distant memory, instead of a long offseason, thinking about what might have been, and what a great opportunity that was squandered.
Oh by the way, the Boston goal that tied it up in the 3rd period was set up by Marc Savard. That’s right, folks. Carolina led, 2-1, after two periods. Road teams have won the last six Game 7 overtimes that have been played. Good luck to both teams. Overtime is now underway!!! What a series!!!
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
10:53 pm
I’m going to go with Staal, Jokinen, or Samsonov for Carolina. If it’s Boston, I like Savard, Kessel, or Chara to end it.
R. Stroz
May 14th, 2009
11:36 pm
Well, it’s time for my playoff predictions:
The Penguins take the Capitals in 7 games.
The Blackhawks surprise the Canuckleheads in 6 games.
The Big Red Borg outlast the Ducks in 7 games.
and
The Hurricanes shock the Bruins in 7 games.
Ok, lets see how I do.
Brendan
May 15th, 2009
12:58 am
You did almost as well as me, R. Stroz. I went 2-2 in Round II. I did get Carolina over Boston, as well as Detroit over Anaheim. But I took the Canuckleheads vs. Chicago and the Capitals over Pittsburgh. I’m 7-5 overall. Right on my usual 8-7 or 9-6 pace.
Okay, “Hockey Geek” time. You know I was goin’ there. There’s only one potential Cup Final has hasn’t happened before: Carolina vs. Chicago. In 2002, it was Detroit vs. Carolina. In 2008, it was Detroit vs. Pittsburgh. In 1992, it was Pittsburgh vs. Chicago.
In the East, oddly enough, Pittsburgh has NEVER FACED Carolina in a playoff series. Never. Pittsburgh entered the league in 1967, commonly referred to as “Expansion.” Carolina/Hartford came over from the WHA in 1979.
Since 1982, when the playoffs became Conference vs. Conference, Chicago has reached the Conference Finals eight times (8x). 1982, 1983, 1985, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1995, and 2009. Chicago’s record in those series? Anyone? Anyone at all? It’s 1-6. But Brendan, you said they reached the CF eight times!! Yeah, well. They haven’t played the 8th series yet. You’ll just have to be patient for the result. This is why they play the games. I believe Chicago played Detroit in the 1995 Conference Finals. The one and only CF win in that stetch occurred in 1992, when the Blackhawks swept Edmonton. That series put the exclamation point on the end of the Edmonton glory years. The Oilers wouldn’t get back to a CF until 2006, when they got there as an 8th place seed. But they won it!!
Brendan
May 15th, 2009
1:07 am
Hey folks, guess what’s true about the Southeast division, if Carolina wins the East this year? Anyone? Our Southeast division will have produced the Eastern Conference Champions for the 6th time in 13 years. Folks, that’s almost HALF. Think about it. The 1996 Florida Panthers, the 1998 Washington Capitals, the 2002 Carolina Hurricanes, the 2004 Tampa Bay Lightning, the 2006 Carolina Hurricanes, and the 2009 Carolina Hurricanes. For a Southleast division, I’d say that’s doing pretty well!
Brendan
May 15th, 2009
1:14 am
I just gotta say it, Carolina has rocked! They won 9 straight games down the stretch, until losing the final two games. At Christmas, they weren’t among the playoff field. And it wasn’t looking good for them to squeak in, either. But they managed to climb to #6. They win a tremendous series with New Jersey, taking games 2, 4, 6 and 7. And in Game 7, they scored two goals in less than a minute, in the final two minutes of regulation to take that series. In Round II, they got up, 3-1, only to squander it to a Game 7. They take a 2-1 lead into the 3rd, but can’t hold it. Then win in the overtime. I’d need to see a cardiologist, if I lived in Raleigh. What a ride!!
Okay, who’s taking the ‘Canes in the next round? Anyone?
LAC
May 15th, 2009
2:46 am
Bill… Who says we don’t have a STRONG Hockey base here ?
These recent blogs show strong support for hockey here and in the future as well as respect for the past with Da Flame !!!!!!!
LAC
May 15th, 2009
2:48 am
Brenden…. Darn shame first game is NOT at the Philips,where Carolina squandered a 2 goal lead in the third period… Atlanta 5 Carolina 3,
like John Forsland said It’s over in Atlanta !
World be Free
May 15th, 2009
7:57 am
Gotta feel for the hockey fans in Hartford. Whalers were jaded when they were in Hartford, living in the shadow of the Bruins. They move to Carolina, win a Stanley Cup and now they are set for another conference final.
Sometimes a change of scenery is a good thing.
Scott Walker the hero-but should have he even been playing in the series? His sucker punch on Ward should have got him a suspension. The NHL, in their infinite wisdom.
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 15th, 2009
8:13 am
Tony C. — I would add Oduya and Komisarek to the short list of UFA defenders I wouldn’t mind seeing sign with Atlanta this offseason.
In order: Ohlund, Beauchemin, Komisarek, Oduya.
Glovesave29
May 15th, 2009
8:39 am
Here’s another way to look at this…
The Flames left in 1980, to be replaced by the Thrashers 19 years later. DW felt this time was too long and no one would remember.
The Canadiens retired Boom Boom’s jersey in 2006…42 years after he last played for le Habs and 38 years after he hung them up for good as a Ranger. Applause was thunderous and there was not a dry eye at the Bell Centre the night they hung his number to the rafters.
We are not goldfish with a 20 second memory. To pass it off and not salute our cities hockey history is just arrogant and self-serving.
After watching last nights games, I feel if Anaheim was in the East, they could have EASILY taken both Boston or Carolina. The movement and flow of the Western game was VASTLY superior to the dump and chase, turnover filled Eastern game. Chicago is rested, but Detroit is playoff tested. It’ll be a great series, but DET prevails in 6. There has not be a rematch of a Stanley Cup Finals series in consecutive years since the Isles and the Oil in 83 and 84. That changes this year as the Pens take down the Canes, also in 6. Ward will be a stud, but the Pens just have too much for them to handle.
Christy
May 15th, 2009
9:24 am
Did anyone else find that they were okay with Carolina advancing but very satisfied when the Caps got beat? For whatever reason – their drive, hard work whatever – I don’t find them nearly as loathesome as Washington and Tampa Bay…
ThrasherFan
May 15th, 2009
9:30 am
Was I the only one who predicted Carolina would win on this blog?
Alan
May 15th, 2009
9:52 am
I think so.
I chose Boston, and that was the only one I was wrong about.
If I remember correctly, I went 5-3 in the first round, and now went 3-1 in the second.
Finals:
Detroit in six.
Carolina in seven.
Brendan
May 15th, 2009
10:16 am
No, there were at least three of us who took Carolina. Including me. But I was following Rawhide’s “sleeper pick” from his pre-playoff blog. Once Carolina upset New Jersey, I could see the light. I can’t catch Alan. As I have the same picks as he does going forward. Detroit in six and Carolina in seven.
Nikita
May 15th, 2009
10:18 am
Man, lots of topics covered here…
1. I get tired of seeing all the blame focused on Don Waddell. He is improving, and he has roughly two bags of used pucks to work with and mostly indifferent ownership. Yes, we need a better GM, but I see no indication that he’s not doing adequately given what he has to work with. In fact, I have no problem with anything he has done in terms of trades and acquisitions from 2007-2008 on, given what his limitations are.
2. Yes, it makes sense to reach out to your alumni, but I must admit that wouldn’t be a draw for me.
3. Holy moley, the playoffs! I love Anaheim, so I’m thrilled that they made it this far. And the Carolina upset was also pretty amazing. Now, if someone can ensure that Detroit does not win the cup, I would appreciate that.
4. Having worked with various members of the ownership…we have, like, 3.5 owners who really care about hockey. And the one who cares most about it mainly cares because of how it relates to youth hockey, and is challenged in the cash flow department. Levenson and Gearon do care, as well, but they’re too savvy to let it overextend them and they recognize the limitations of their roles.
5. I understand the various reasons why tickets to Thrashers games are not cheap, but I think the ownership needs to rework their strategy on pricing and promotions. Because a half-empty, indifferent arena affects the team terribly, as well as creates an uphill battle to promotion, marketing, etc. — it’s pretty hard to get anyone to cover a team that no one is seeing, either in person or on television. And the team does suffer — it was no surprise at all to me that the team won on the road more than at home at several points in the season.
ThrasherFan
May 15th, 2009
10:19 am
I think I blew the Caps Pens prediction and the Chicago series. I just knew Boston would blow it as they always do. Carolina has a more recent pedigree of success in the playoffs and were riding a hot Cam Ward. Boston hasn’t done anything in years – regular season doesn’t count once the playoffs begin.
Prediction for the finals -
Pens Detroit Rematch
Rawhide
May 15th, 2009
10:22 am
LAC- There is a strong fan base here, indeed.
Nikita – I would agree that DW has not done a bad job over the past year or so…agin, given some of the limitations he’s under. But I think the Ilya Kovalchuk issue will make or break him here. If he can’t get him to re-sign…I think he’s done. But that’s just a hunch.
Brendan – Thanks for remembering who picking the “sleeper” Carolina in round one…however, I did not pick them against Boston.
ThrasherFan – Hats off to you for doing just that…pickin’ the Canes! As for your prediction…if it is Pittsburgh vs. Detroit, I’ll be pulling for the Penguins ONLY because of the irony that would come with it in regards to Marian Hossa.
Christy – I love watching the Hurricanes now…I have a few friends who are Caniacs and I’m living vicariously through them.
Spud Webb
May 15th, 2009
10:47 am
Rawhide, you’ll love this. I just emailed Elliott on CNN/SI! Asking him his side of the story. Doubt he will answer but thought that was cute. hahahhahaha.
Great, GREAT games last night. I wanted the Ducks to pull it out, not in the cards. How about Walker scoring that goal, sick!!!!! Boston has to be sick to their stomachs right now.
Should be interesting, I don’t think the Hawks (though I hope) can hold up againt the Wings. I’m rooting for Carolina now, which probably curses them!!!
Rawhide
May 15th, 2009
11:02 am
Spudster – Well, if he does respond…please do share what he has to say.
Dwayne
May 15th, 2009
11:34 am
as much as i dislike pittsburgh, if they were to play detriot in the finals, i’d pull for pittsburgh because of “you know who”. would “you know who” then want to go back to pittsburgh???…Go Carolina!!!!
“IF” Atlanta had different/better owners and DW was still the GM with the same amount of $$ and no court issues. Would Atlanta field a playoff team?? If not a playoff team, would they get support?? Atlanta just seems like a city that will only support a winner. Maybe thats only because of all the “transplants”.
I got a question about Todd White/Kovy..If Kovy had not been trying to “fit in” with JA’s system, (remember all the open net misses by EC?)and just fired the puck at the net like he did the 2nd half of the year, would Atl. really need a top center this off season?
Nikita
May 15th, 2009
12:44 pm
Dwayne, one thing you must say for Kovy is that he makes his wishes known. And since day one, he has reiterated how much he likes Todd White and how much he enjoys playing with him. Todd White as his center is a good thing. Depending on who the opposite wing and defenders are, since Todd White does need heavier players to mitigate for his lack of size, I think he does great there. And let’s face it — not too many people do well with Kovy, regardless of their skill. IMO, Kovy never stopped trying to fit in with JA’s system — he just got better linemates, who could set him up or sink it themselves and not worry too much about it. Peverly and White both know how to rock & roll with the big guy, whereas Christensen was very calculated (and often off), Jason Williams neither earned nor got any respect, and Bryan Little for some reason does a lot better with Kozlov/White.
That said, we could still use some forward talent — our scoring production wasn’t bad, but can always be better, and at the end of next year it would be good to have in the ranks a few players who can replace the inevitable retirements. But we desperately need defensive talent. And we should see some from development, since we have so many young and promising players, but we’re still going to have to buy some of it.
Dwayne
May 15th, 2009
12:55 pm
a top 2 scoring winger, who can kill a penalty and a top 2 d-man who can kill a pentalty. Playoff bound…etch that in stone!!!
Alan
May 15th, 2009
1:31 pm
Niclas Havelid signs with Linkoping
Our friend is homebound. Best of luck in the SEL, Nic.
Tony C.
May 15th, 2009
3:31 pm
Wow.
Well, I certainly wish Nic well-I wondered if DW was seriously going to try and re-sign him.
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 15th, 2009
4:01 pm
This past season Havelid was a +4 while with the Thrashers, and a -2 with the Devils. That’s an interesting stat.
Brendan
May 15th, 2009
4:18 pm
Did you head Darren Eliot’s comments during Game 7? He said, “Marian Hossa was turned into a ‘mercenary’ by his former team, the Ottawa Senators, when they signed him to a 4-year deal, (it was 3, Darren,) then promptly traded him to the Atlanta Thrashers. He’s trying to make himself a fixture, here in Detroit.”
A ‘mercenary?’ That’s an interesting choice of words by Darren Eliot.
If it’s Pittsburgh vs. Detroit, I’ll be rooting for Pittsburgh! But like Christy said, “I don’t mind following the ‘Canes.” I like their GM, Jim Rutherford, and I always have. The moment that Carolina clinched a playoff berth, Trip Tracy opined, “Carolina will get to compete, once again, for Lord Stanley’s Cup this Summer!!” Maybe he’s clairvoyant?
Seriously, since Christmas, the two hottest teams in the East were the Therrien-less Penguins and the Hurricanes. I was hesitant to just use 2nd half stats to make my picks. If we went EXCLUSIVELY off of those, the St. Louis Blues would be headed to the Cup Finals, as they were EN FUEGO in the 2nd Half. St. Louis didn’t win a game in the playoffs, if I’m recalling correctly. I had NJ over Carolina in Round I. But I took Carolina over Boston. And I’m taking Carolina over Pittsburgh. I actually think Pittsburgh is the deeper team, but momentum counts for a lot in the playoffs. Carolina won the Cup with several of the players still on their roster today, back in 2006.
If the Red Wings win the Cup, many people think that will happen, they “might” be able to say they went through the 2006 and 2007 Stanley Cup Champions to do it. Call it a hunch, but I doubt they’ll be bragging about eliminating Columbus. But hey, that’s one way for Columbus to appear in one of the “NHL Stanley Cup Champions” videos–lose to the Champs!
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 15th, 2009
4:24 pm
What momentum does Carolina have the Pittsburgh doesn’t? They both won in Game 7, and Carolina almost blew a 3-1 series lead…so what momentum are you pointing out, specifically?
Brendan
May 15th, 2009
6:46 pm
The “thrill of Game 7 overtime!!!” Specifically.
Brendan
May 15th, 2009
6:47 pm
Really, truly. The thrill of Game 7 overtime is something very special.
Thrashers27
May 15th, 2009
7:41 pm
As much as I think he’s just a windbag at times, Ecklund seems to think Waddell will make a move for Marty Havlat in the off season. Sounds good to me!
Tickle Me Selma
May 15th, 2009
8:05 pm
I remember about 15 years ago, being up in Calgary and going to a Flames store in some mall up there. They had an old Atlanta Jersey there with the burning A logo and a sign that read: “Know your history.” It’s freaking sad that Calgary pays more homage to Atlanta’s hockey history than Atlanta does.
This franchise is an utter laughingstock. An incompetent and utter laughingstock.
Alan
May 15th, 2009
10:12 pm
To be fair, doesn’t Calgary own the rights to the flaming A logo?
Alan
May 15th, 2009
10:44 pm
Apparently, Ducks GM Bob Murray, not to be outdone by his team on the ice, had a little bit of physical action in the press box last night as well.
LAC
May 16th, 2009
6:55 am
I think it is time to show Mr.Derrin Eliott the door.
He is misinformed, loves these owners and waddell and offers not one damn thing to the telecasts. He has become VERY unprofessional and seems to have another agenda in mind, rather than Atlanta.
He is NOT a good color guy and at the very least would like to see a NEW
TV team next season for sure, Good Bye Derrin, don’t let the door hit you on the way OUT !
World Be Free
May 16th, 2009
9:07 pm
Havlat would be a great compliment for Kovy or Little. Bryan Little faded the last month of the season.
I am pushing for Todd Marchant. He’s a gritty player who wins faceoffs, kills penalties and scores big goals. He’s won game 7’s in OT, tossed in the 3 OT winner in the Wings-Ducks series and shut down Datsyuk for most of the series. Rumor has it the Ducks want him to take a pay cut to stay. I’d take him anytime.
How about Komisarek on the bluline?