Passion For Atlanta’s Hockey History Is Still Aflame – Pt. II
In part one of my discussion with former Atlanta Flame Tim Ecclestone, he and I discussed his disappointment about the lack of connection between the team that was here in the 70s and the present-day one. I asked him if those involved with Thrashers organization at that time ever considered including members of the old club when constructing the Thrashers organization. Tim told me that the team did in fact interview Atlanta/Calgary Flames general manager, Cliff Fletcher, for the same position with the new club.
“Cliff was here, knows the area…a Hall of Famer…done pretty good. And he was called in by Harvey Schiller to be interviewed”, Tim said.
He and Fletcher had dinner the evening he was in town for the interview and they discussed the situation.
“He was the best man for the job”, said Ecclestone. “He had been through an expansion draft…he knows the city. I asked him how he’d make up the team, if he was hired, and Cliff said to me, ‘one thing hasn’t changed over the years…the physicality. I get the job this will be among the top-three toughest in the league. That will be it’s identity’”.
“Any time you think about the Atlanta Flames”, Tim went on, “You think about toughness. When other teams flew into Hartsfield, they didn’t want to play at the Omni…they know they were going to play a physical team. And that’s what Cliff knew would work today as well…get the biggest, toughest guys, then work in your Kovalchuks”.
Tim explained how you have to know your market. Atlanta fans, and fans in the south, love football because of it’s aggressive, physical play…and that is the kind of play they appreciate. “Cliff had this figured out in the 70s. You don’t fight it…you join it. This is why I can’t figure out why Don Waddell will say things like, ‘Why, when football season is over…then we’ll bring ‘em in’…makes no sense”.
Continuing, “Even when they go through a slump…if the team plays hard, physical hockey the fans will come”.
L -R: Eric Vail, Tim Ecclestone and Willi Plett at TJs (Photo by Trixie)
“I ask you…if they ever had a night down at Philips where they recognized some of the old players, who do you think would get the biggest ovation”?
He then answered his own question. “Willi Plett…that’s who. He was a tough player. This is also why Garnet Exelby is so popular with the fans…he’ll stick his nose in it”.
But Fletcher wasn’t given the job, however Brian Burke factored into the process, didn’t he?
“It was down to he and Waddell, so Schiller had to make a decision… and Burke was also being courted by Vancouver. Burke called him up and said, ‘Listen, I’m not trying to put your feet to the fire…but if I’m still being considered, then fine…if not I need to take this job in Vancouver’”. He then went, “Well, time passed and Schiller called him to ask if he had taken the job and he was told, ‘Yeah, I just took it’”.
And so it down to just Waddell. Why was he brought into the mix?
“I think Detroit had just won a cup and, as you know, they start looking at assistants and other people associated with winning teams…and it doesn’t matter whether it’s football or baseball or hockey…that’s where it is. That’s when Waddell’s name came up, he was a part of a winning team”.
I asked Tim about Pat Quinn…if he’s ever been considered for the job.
“That’s a funny story”, he replied. “Pat Quinn was available…Pat was a part of the Flames. He calls me up and says, ‘what’s going on down there? I just got a call from this guy Harvey Schiller asking me for the phone number of some other guy to interview for the job”.
“And keep in mind, Pat’s out of work at the time…and they call him up looking for the number of someone else to ask for an interview. He told me, ‘That was the most bazaar call I ever had’”.
Either way…Tim firmly believes that Fletcher, Burke or Quinn would have built this team on a foundation of size and toughness. And that would have been their identity.
Moving back to the old Flames and the lack of connection between them and the Thrashers organization…he once again brought up the way Minnesota has handled the same circumstance.
“Going back to the situation in Minnesota…they’ve got a mural…it must spread out 50-feet or so…and has beginning with day one of the Minnesota North Stars history all the way to their end in Minnesota. It’s a tribute to the North Stars. It’s there…it’s recognized…and, I mean, what a nice tribute”.
The he said, “This organization here…they chose not to recognize the past”.
He recalled the time when Dany Heatley had won the Calder Memorial Cup as rookie of the year. “Here we have this young man, great player…at the time one of the faces of the future for this team…he’s out there on the ice being presented with the trophy in front of the Atlanta fans. And there are three other guys here in town who are a part of the city’s hockey history who have also won that award…Eric Vail, Willi Plett and Boom-Boom Geoffrion, who was still with us at the time”.
“And I thought to myself, what a nice thing it would be to have had these guys down there with him…to help present this guy with such a great honor…to welcome him in to the group of players with Atlanta ties into that club made up of Calder winners”.
To Ecclestone, it’s just another example to the new franchise making a conscience decision to keep separate the two teams that have shared the same city and much of it’s fans.
But what if the Thrashers had chosen to embrace the team that first won over a fan base to the sport of professional hockey? Again, in part one of this series, Tim discussed how the alumni was more than willing to do the legwork in the community…but he also feels they could do something for the fans attending games at Philips Arena.
Tim shared with me an idea that he had regarding how the past and the present could come together at Philips Arena…and idea that he first shared with Stan Kasten.
“I’ve known Stan for years”, Tim began. “And I said to him, ‘Ya know, what bothers me more than anything is that there is not one picture of the Flames” in the arena.
“I talked to Stan…and I talked to Bernie Mullins…about what I’d like to do. The bar behind the penalty box…I’d like to see one of the party suits on either side…take it and place on the left side an Atlanta Flames logo…on the right side an Atlanta Thrashers logo…right in the middle an NHL Alumni logo”.
He went on to describe how each team’s general managers, assistant GMs, players…everyone involved with those teams would be given space and attention. Display photos of special moments on either side of the room for both teams…recognize team awards and player’s awards” on their respective side.
He also stated that it would also be a nice idea to have alumni members sitting in the top row of seats just outside of the room who would be accessible to all who cared to join them for a beer and talk hockey.
“All of this would be made available to anyone who paid to get into see the game”, he said. “Eric Vail can entertain them better than anyone…same with Danny Bouchard, Tom Lysiak…let us go down there and mix and be a part of them. And the fans can look in the room and see the history of the sport here from the 70s to the present”.
But aren’t those rooms rented out or sold?
“Listen, I understand that room gets rented out on occasions…if they want to rent it out and get one of the guys to host the party…put it into the package…let them do that”.
Ecclestone even stated that he’d help pay for the cost of this “Atlanta Hockey Museum”…kinda like what they have for the Braves at Turner Field.
And the team’s response?
“They have never gotten back with me”.
But would you still be willing to work with them if they would call?
“If they come to us…but Levenson’s gotta return my call. Michael (Gearon), he’s returned my calls, but he’s got his hands full with the Hawks…he’s fine and he’s been good enough to call me back…but Bruce is the point man for the Thrashers”.
And there is more to what he feels they could do for the team beyond just promoting the product in the area.
There are people in this town…both individuals and corporate…”Who have given up on them”, he said. “These guys are big hitters and these guys will spend and spend and spend. And he (Levenson) needs to get involved here. You’ve got out-of town ownership…but you’ve got a fan base here and they could lean on us…but they don’t do it”.
Ecclestone concluded by reiterating his intent here is to simply offer assistance in promoting the team and the sport in the community that he and the alumni know so well, but is frustrated with the lack of interest from the organization.
“We’re not looking for any money…we just want this thing to succeed. But not getting a phone call back…that just bugs me”.
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144 comments Add your comment
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 14th, 2009
1:09 pm
Alright, I’ve tried to keep from the back and forth banter because it will always degrade (notice how there was name calling in the first response…way to set a standard), but here goes anyways:
Yep, there’s been three ownership groups, to point at the ASG as the core problem is just laughable. — Bob
There have been three ownership entities, by your statement. None have fired the “obvious” problem. Two ownership groups have been given a GM/EVP (one even HIRED him), and none of them have had the awareness to fire or simply not re-sign the individual. If the root of the problem is the GM (your stance), and the only people able to remove him are his ownership groups (doesn’t matter which one, pick out of the three), yet he remains employed…who is the culprit?
“Wasn’t Harvey S. employed by Time Warner? Not the ASG?” — DB
Yes, he was. And he too didn’t do what hindsight shows would’ve been the right decision. Ownership (Time Warner) enabled repeated failure, and they past that “standard” to the ASG along with the rights to the Thrashers/Hawks/Phillips Arena. Thus “ownership” has been the root of the problems from the beginning…put a different picture or name, yet it’s the same result from each group.
I’m not only blaming the ASG, but they’re the current ownership group not doing anything to keep the Thrashers from becoming anything than mediocre. It’s easy to identify WHERE the problem lies, but it makes more sense to criticize WHY the problem exists in the attempt to rectify the root cause, instead of bashing your head over what the problem is. If you fix or eliminate the root of the problem, the problem is also eliminated.
If a 5 year old child steals once, you blame the child. If the 5 year old child steals incessantly, you should blame the child but moreover blame the parents for not doing anything to stop the child. If the parents don’t rectify the problem, does it serve a purpose to continue blaming the child?? The child doesn’t know any better until told differently from their authority figure…and the parents are allowing for such behavior from the child by NOT DOING A THING.
Back to our situation, Thrashers ownership have never done a thing about who everyone likes to identify as the problem. They hemorrhage money, do shady deals to sell the team, tell the fans to deal with price hikes, yet the continue to employ The Problem. At some point it becomes useless to continue to point and say “THERE, I SEE THE PROBLEM!!” and hope it fixes itself. That point was two years ago…the current ownership group didn’t catch on (they still haven’t), and the problem still exists.
Until the ownership group has a fundamental change in their business model, nothing meaningful will happen with this franchise. All successes will be in spite of the ownership group, and all failures will be due to the ownership group. Until they care about the on-ice product, this team will be far from the level we all wish the team would achieve.
And yes, that criticism goes for past groups and future groups if they continue to enable mediocrity at any level of the franchise.
Tony C.
May 14th, 2009
1:12 pm
I’d love to see us get Havlat & Antropov. That’s right I said and!
As far as defenders go, I like Beauchemin & Ohlund in that order. However, I just don’t see them coming to ATL UNLESS Beauchemin heard really good things from Schneider during his stay here.
I’d also look at making a trade/offer sheet for Barker up in Chicago.
Thoughts?
Ice dog
May 14th, 2009
1:25 pm
who is the 3rd ownership group you keep referring too? I only count 2 separate owners of the Thrashers.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
1:25 pm
I’d take Beauchemin and Koivu. And I’d be lucky to get that much. Anyone hear any news about the cap limit for 2009-10? Stay the same? Up a fraction? Down a fraction? Remember, the smaller the cap, the better it is for smaller or cash-strapped markets. Read: Ours.
If the cap actually shrank to $47 million, Atlanta could be back in business. But that’s a big drop from $56.7 million. I don’t see it getting smaller than $55 million. The NHL has to look out for Detroit, remember. And Detroit wants to keep Hossa. If possible.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
1:26 pm
Ted Turner, AOL-TIME-WARNER, and Atlanta Spirit, LLC. That’s three.
World be Free
May 14th, 2009
1:27 pm
Anyone think we should go for Briere? Philly would take a used puck bag just to get rid of him. I know about his injury history and the big contract, but…….
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
1:35 pm
Tony… I was gonna say the same thing about Barker in my last post, but was afraid of catching the “RFA’s are too expensive” wraith.
I would prefer him over Beauchemin and Ohlund who are gonna get overpaid.
However, an offer starting at $2 million for Barker, you’d have to surrender a 1st and 3rd round pick… $1.99 million is as high as you can go to only surrender a 2nd round pick, which I would be willing to give, but I’m sure Chicago would be more than happy to match.
R. Stroz
May 14th, 2009
1:40 pm
ranallo10 – Name calling, who would do that. That said, Waddell is the GM by default, not by choice.
It’s like picking a girl to dance with once everyone has already picked all of the other girls. And, just like the last girl picked, her description is as follows, she has a great personality.
Now, think about it, when people describe Waddell, they say he is a nice guy. Just what one would expect from the last GM to dance with, good personality and nothing else.
Ice dog
May 14th, 2009
1:45 pm
Turner merged with Time Warner in 1996 http://money.cnn.com/1996/09/12/deals/timeturner/
So Turner and Time Warner do not count as separate owners.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
1:47 pm
I’d rather take the Briere money and make sure we sign (1) Pavelec, (2) Little, and/or (3) Lehtonen. That assumes we agree to pay whatever Kovalchuk demands to stay. I know I harp on this too much, but we must give our draft picks a reason to believe they can have a career playing in Atlanta. Otherwise, players will view their time in Atlanta like it were a “layover” at Hartsfield. Who wants players who are eyeballin’ exit upon arrival? Or even on draft day? Not meee.
I, personally, think it’s important to draft well … and re-sign those players. Ideally, that would be done PROACTIVELY. It sends a message to the players that they’re valuable to the organization. Plus, there’s the continuity of roster, and familiarity, and team identity factors, etc. To continue to throw together a “hodge-podge” of players, who’ll all be gone in two years, is like combining all your slivers of soap into one bar, for your shower. It’s ridiculous.
Priority #1 ought to be … “in-house business.” Re-sign the essential Thrasher draft picks. Plus, we’ve got some Category VI UFA guys to re-sign, like Crabb, Oysterick, C. Wilson, maybe even Mike Hoffman. And let’s not forget that Rich Peverley, the waiver claim player, becomes eligible for a UFA PROACTIVE contract on July 1, 2009. There’s plenty of players who need contracts or who are “eligible” for contracts, come July 1.
One last time, I’d keep Lehtonen ANNND Pavelec. We drafted them. We have cap room for them. And together, the competition for #1 status ought to make for a better product. I don’t care which one is the starter and which one the backup. We paid a HEFFFFFTY PRICE for both of these goalies. To let them go for “insufficient return” for what were “picks #2 and #41″ seems awefully foolish. Plus, we passed up #8 to move back to #12, to acquire pick #41. As Casey Kasem might say, “The hits just keep on comin’.”
Goalies take TIME to develop. Luckily, the Thrashers appear to have that luxury of time. To draft goalies, develop them, only to see them florish elsewhere … is the just the crowning jewel of failure, organizationally.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
1:48 pm
Time Warner, then, owned the Thrashers in 1999, by process of time machine travel?
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
1:48 pm
Brendan… Ted had already been bought out by Time Warner in 1996 before they added the Thrashers… then AOL merged with Time Warner in 2001.
Ice dog
May 14th, 2009
1:56 pm
Time Warner bought out Ted Turner in 1996. Time Warner bought the new hockey expansion team called the Atlanta Thrashers in 1998. Ted never owned the team. Time Warner merging with AOL has nothing to do with it either because Time Warner still owned the team. Time Warner then sold it to Atlanta Spirit. Nice sarcasm with the time machine travel line but get your facts straight.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
2:01 pm
Fair enough. I didn’t recall anyone BUT Ted Turner being the VISUAL ENTITY IN CHARGE. So, Ted didn’t have “exclusive control” over the Thrashers, at ANY POINT? Good to know.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
2:05 pm
I just did a Briere post. But it didn’t take. It’s too long to start over, but the gist of which is this: I’d rather take the Briere money and use it to lock up our own Thrasher draft picks, for the coming years, PROACTIVELY, and hopefully at a bit of a discount, too.
Briere is a good player. I think so, anyway. But on the budget we’ll have, we’ll be hard pressed just to keep who we need to off our own roster.
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 14th, 2009
2:06 pm
So was it two or one gunmen in the grassy knoll? Does it matter…the team is still dead (relatively).
Stroz — The Waddell by default was an interesting aspect to this whole story, in my opinion. It’s yet another proof of how poor management leads to mismanagement. If ownership/decision makers in charge of hiring a GM had their crap together, they might’ve been able to pick the one they wanted out of the three. Except, as Ecclestone tells it, the ownership group let one of the options fall into their laps.
As I said, it’s not Waddell’s “fault” for being picked over Burke or Fletcher (or due to them no longer being available), it’s not Waddell’s “fault” for getting re-signed multiple times by different ownership groups. Nobody is holding him accountable for his errors, and are instead enabling him to continue to make them (I assume it’s in the hope that he learns from those mistakes and gradually improves).
If I were a new owner of a company who had a crappy sales team, I wouldn’t just say “maybe my owning the team will change things around here”, I would bring in people that fit my plan for the company. ASG didn’t do that, they stuck with the cheapest option available to them.
We’re still paying for that, and will be until either Waddell is removed or he has enough time to make every mistake in the book to the point he improves by doing the opposite of what his instincts tell him to do. (I don’t know if that makes sense)
Buzilla in CT
May 14th, 2009
2:11 pm
Big Willy Tilly – Great articles. I was wondering if you tried (or could) get a comment from Darren Elliott. Since he was the one tranmitting the notion that the old Flamers didn’t want to be part of the the Trashers, maybe he could shed some light on this. Maybe he was instucted to do this by the higher ups? Maybe he got the cold shoulder from an ex Flamer? Maybe he is just ticked that he was a crappy goalie?
Anyway, since you are now part of “THE MEDIA” maybe he could grant you an interview or something. Maybe even an email correspondence.
Just a thought.
R. Stroz
May 14th, 2009
2:19 pm
Does the Thrashers organization really lack identity?
Nope, as ranallo10 pointed out, they have an identity: CHEAP.
Ice dog
May 14th, 2009
2:21 pm
Wait, Ted Turner was a VISUAL ENTITY in charge? How many games did he go to? How many press conferences did he show up to? How was he visual?
Buzilla in CT
May 14th, 2009
2:23 pm
How many cans of Crunk Juice would Lil’ Jon have to sell in order to buy the Thrashers?
Buzilla in CT
May 14th, 2009
2:23 pm
**YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!**
**OOOO KAY!!!!**
World be Free
May 14th, 2009
2:28 pm
Thanks for your thoughts Brendan-just lookin’ for a playmaker with some guts and Danny fits the bill
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
2:30 pm
Actually, Ranallo, that did make perfect sense. At least, to me, it did. Waddell is “blameless” about how he still has a job. He should milk it for every penny he can get. Why not? He has an “adoring” ownership? They like him. They respect him. Waddell should hold a seminar for his fellow GM’s on how to keep ownership at bay. He’s doing a tremendous job of it.
From a fan’s perspective, I think there’s plenty of room for blame to be divided among the ownership and the GM, and scouting Dept., etc. And, you’re right, even if every instinct Waddell ever had were wrong, he’d still improve the club via the lottery draft and waiver wire claims, as a bottom feeder. It’s almost impossible to stay at the bottom of the league in perpetuity. I actually advocate the slowwww build process. It works, so long as the lottery picks aren’t “busts” and that the lottery picks get re-signed when they are eligible for their RFA contracts. Waiver wire claims are a bigger gamble, but sometimes pay off. Re-entry waivers, as you’ve often said, are the best deal of all, since the gaining team only has to pay HALF of the remaing salary for the season for the player acquired.
I think the AS, LLC’s plan … is just to sell off the Thrashers for a tidy profit. And think that objective is very doable. Unless Belkin steps in to prevent it. But, seriously, as long as Belkin gets what “he thinks” is his fair share of the Thrashers sale, why would he object?
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
2:30 pm
Ranallo… I’ll add another quote to the argument… Bernie Mullen went on The Fan last year after stepping down and said, “The Teams have the right guys in place at GM, they just need time to grow into their jobs.” I guess essentially getting past the learning curve.
Of course, here’s where everyone will jump in with “10 YEARS!!!” … should have been fired 3 years ago… 5 years ago… blah blah blah.
But, of the mindset, “What have you done for me LATELY?” Do we think Waddell is past the learning curve or is this team, on today’s date… May 14th, 2009… completely lost?
Rawhide
May 14th, 2009
2:32 pm
Zillanator – I’ll respond the same way I did to Jason(Darkhorse)…I would if DE ever approached me I would give him the same respect with his story as I did for Tim. However, if he … or DW… ever felt the need to respond, It would more than likely be via CV. And I’m good with that.
However, if the Thrashers organ-I-zation felt the need to respond, whether that’s Eliot or Waddell, I would hope they would do so directly with Ecclestone and the alumni group. I’m on board with the others who would simply like to see the issue resolved.
Tony C.
May 14th, 2009
2:36 pm
Zilla-I don’t know, but I stopped bootlegging his music in hopes that rumor that he & Jermaine & Chris Tucker were going to buy into FUBAS.
Ok that’s a lie.
But I would love for the pre-game music to be Lil Jon… of course old schoolers don’t think hip hop & hockey mix…..suckers.
Alan
May 14th, 2009
2:45 pm
How many cans of Crunk Juice would Lil’ Jon have to sell in order to buy the Thrashers?
I’d buy the product if it meant he would buy in.
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
2:58 pm
I can see the Billboards next year already… Lil Jon and Evander Kane… ATLANTA THRASHERS 2009-2010 “OKAAAAAYYY”
Ilya is a hip hop fan, right? I think Bogosian is too.
Of course, that’s not going to help our argument with bringing in Eccelstone and those guys.
Sage of Bluesland
May 14th, 2009
3:06 pm
“…Bernie Mullen went on The Fan last year after stepping down and said, “The Teams have the right guys in place at GM, they just need time to grow into their jobs.” I guess essentially getting past the learning curve….”
Well, that resolves all, folks. GaVaSheep said that Bernie Mullen said that we’ve got THE ANSWER at GM–just give them time!
Wow. That would be funny if it weren’t so ridiculous.
(Who is Bernie what’s-his-name again? What did he EVER do?)
Try again.
Alan
May 14th, 2009
3:06 pm
I know Enstrom is. I remember questioning why he was so immersed in American hip-hop when the stuff from Sweden (that I’ve heard, anyway) is so much better.
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
3:18 pm
Well, that resolves all, folks. GaVaSheep said that Bernie Mullen said that we’ve got THE ANSWER at GM–just give them time!
I didn’t say that at all, douchebag.
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
3:19 pm
I wasn’t resolving anything, I was submitting it for argument.
Darren Elliot
May 14th, 2009
3:21 pm
Waddell told me to say that ex-Flames players wanted nothing to do with helping this new francise unless they were going to get paid hansomely for it. Since Waddell has only about a hundred bucks to spend on finding players to fill this cluster puck of a lineup, he had to turn his back on Tim and his gang of old hooligans. I was a patsey. But the ladies love my salt and pepper hair….and my five hole
ABBA
May 14th, 2009
3:21 pm
Thank you for buying our CDs Alan.
Tony C.
May 14th, 2009
3:26 pm
Alan- Swedish Hip Hop better than ‘Merican? really? um… uh…. next time we get to hang out together remind me to give you a Little Brother CD. Also, check out Atlanta’s own Dillion Mauer.
Now as far as metal-I’ll give it up, the Swedes make some guuuuuuud metal.
ThrasherFan
May 14th, 2009
3:33 pm
What I’ve realized while reading these posts is just how small the “Thrasher Community” is. I saw 79 posts and thought, “WOW” lots of people involved here. But it’s the same 4-5 people all throughout the thread.
The Thrashers need more fans…
ThrasherFan
May 14th, 2009
3:34 pm
Swedish Metal is definitely better than the American version. Properly trained musicians them.
Alan
May 14th, 2009
3:43 pm
next time we get to hang out together remind me to give you a Little Brother CD.
Bet. You bring your Little Brother CD, and I’ll bring you a Looptroop CD.
You can also check them out on Youtube to see if you’re interested, first.
What can I say? I like the underground and I like overseas stuff (Norwegian hip-hop is awesome, too, by the way). I don’t like some of the utter crap that gets played on the radio today.
Swedish Metal is definitely better than the American version
Metallica has absolutely nothing on Opeth!
Cousin John
May 14th, 2009
3:45 pm
Thrasherfan they also need more topics. It’s not just 79 posts by about 4-5 people. It’s 79 blogs about the same 4-5 topics (which usually all come back to Waddell and the Atlanta Spirit Group). Occasionally someone chimes in with something funny like Swedish rap that makes me laugh. Now let’s get back to griping about ownership.
ThrasherFan
May 14th, 2009
3:50 pm
Good point Cousin John. I just wonder what percentage of the “fan” base actually care about these ownership and GM issues. Atlanta is a fair weather sports town. If you win, fans come out and support you: ex. Thrasher Playoff Season. Falcons this year, Hawks this year, etc etc.
This is a horrible sports town in general. Wait… now someone is going to chime in on how if only DW the Fraud and the Spiritless group were out of the picture, the Thrash would win and we wouldn’t be lambs and sheep anymore.
*Shrugs*
Disgrace about the Flames situation though – always wondered why there is no mention at Phillips and when the Flames come to town it’s really no big thing.
Stat Man
May 14th, 2009
3:51 pm
Just shows what some teams do to show history. The Thrashers are pathetic in this area as is clearly pointed out in this fine article. The Calgary Flames, however, continue to use the old Flames “A” on their jersey’s for their Alternate Captains.
Talk about a mountainous gap in showing the differences of two organizations with regards to having class!
Sad that the old Flames had enforcers (I STILL remember a game against the Blues where they handed out about 200 penalty minutes), “The Downtown Connection” (Vail, Lysiak & Chouinard if I remember correctly), Johnny Reb and his rebel flag and the Painted Lady with her well placed “A”. By comparison the Thrashers have ownership that could care less.
In 2007 I went to 15 games, in 2008 I went to 13 games, last year I went to 7 games. As my youngest daughter gets older and the main reason I go is usually for her to see Thrash, the number of games will continue to decline until the team does something to encourage me to spend MEGA BUCKS to go!
Midfield
May 14th, 2009
4:05 pm
Brendan, your post about Don kind of made me laugh. I imagined him in a picture between Zhitnik and Rucchin – all smiling – somewhere on display at Philips. Or, on the dart-board at TJs?
Cousin John
May 14th, 2009
4:11 pm
Thrasherfan it only takes one goof from Canada to come in and point out some of those things and watch the 4-5 people get riled up. They’ll tell you how the Flames were great and made the playoffs year after year. What they don’t tell you is that 3 out of 4 teams in the division made the playoffs and there was mass expansion back then and easy to compete. They complain about the Thrashers not winning a playoff game yet. But they are silent that the Flames never won a playoffs series. The hail Ted Turner even as the first owner. But they are silent that Turner bought the Hawks from Cousins in 76 and wanted nothing to do with the Flames (which eventually led to some disputes that led to the Flames leaving town). They say the Flames were financially stable, but they are silent about the Flames never getting a local tv contract and being in a financially poor condition. They say the Thrashers were great at the beginning and are only going through a decrease in ticket sales due to ownership. They are silent that the Flames went through the same decrease in ticket sales before they left. I can go on but I don’t want to give the troll from Canada any more ammunition. Rawhide have you looked into who else was in management for the Thrashers and what they thought about things?
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 14th, 2009
4:16 pm
Being critical and being a fan typically go hand-in-hand. This doesn’t make you a “fair weather” or “band wagon” fan, it merely makes you want more out of your favorite franchise. Some people enjoy the game even though they don’t agree with the management. Those people are not less of fans, or less critical towards the team, but rather place their enjoyment of seeing live hockey in Atlanta as a higher priority than their enjoyment of being critical towards the team they support as a fan.
To each his own really, because clearly there is no right or wrong when we’re talking about 5000+ individuals who all consider themselves “die hard Thrasher fans”.
Changing gears really quickly, did anybody see how dejected the Canadians were after losing the World Championship to Russia? First, Doan knocks a Russian’s glove into the stands during the celebration (which apparently Canadian players thought was excessive). Then they all receive their medals with the expected dragged and beaten expressions on their face. But what I found priceless was Lindey Ruff’s reaction when he got the silver…he basically gave Messier the “dead fish” handshake, rolled his eyes when Messier put the medal over his neck, and then kinda looked at it like “pssh, I absolutely hate this color”.
It was an interesting aspect of seeing the runners-up reaction immediately after the game…I was curious if anyone else saw it and found it interesting too?
Tony C.
May 14th, 2009
4:21 pm
Cousin John- My point about the difference between fan support for the Flames and for the Thrashers-ok neither has won a playoff series, but also, pretty much their whole run here the Flames enjoyed good gate numbers-even compared to franchises in “natural” hockey locations… I mean that the Flames were a hot ticket (apologies for the pun). Thrashers games, I have become accustomed to walking up to the ticket window and paying say $20/per and then walking down to the lower-bowl and sitting in $70/per seats.
Trust me, you couldn’t replicate that feat (adjusting for building name, inflation etc) during the Atlanta Flames era.
Cousin John
May 14th, 2009
4:24 pm
I don’t think you can say that just because someone goes to a game of a losing team that they aren’t critical. Are you saying no one is critical of UGA football during their crap years before Richt even though they still sold out a big chunk of that stadium? How about a school like South Carolina that hasn’t one a thing but sells out all the time? No one critical there? You can be critical and still go to the games. It’s not an either/or scenario. You don’t have to choose if you want to be critical or if you want to watch the team play live.
Cousin John
May 14th, 2009
4:29 pm
Tony the Flames decreased in ticket sales as the years went on. I would love to see numbers that say otherwise. Yeah the initial year or two were great but so were the Thrashers when we had 17-18,000 per game. There was a reason that the Hawks were sold locally and the Flames were not. I’m pissed because I see it happening again.
Obama
May 14th, 2009
4:53 pm
Ti-Cat and Cousin John need a job. One will suffice for both.
polskidawg
May 14th, 2009
5:00 pm
Rawhide – an excellent series of articles.
Having had the pleasure of working with Tim and Eric in the late 80’s, and making Willi’s acquaintance during that time also, its clear that they feel very strongly about the Thrasher’s seeming disregard for them and the general Flames alumni group.
Balancing Tim’s bias with the factual time-line of events, forces us to recognize that a strong majority of Tim’s assessment is correct.
The experience and recorded success of Cliff Fletcher or/and Brian Burke parallels Tim’s view that they would have likely created a greater amount of success than Don Waddell. That seems clear to reasonably thinking (i.e. not emotional) people.
I personally and completely with Tim’s view on the matter of “style” or identity, and that Fletcher understood the southern market far better than the current management group. Those of us from the 70’s loved the Flames style – rough and tumble, big, nasty, etc., but with enough skill to light the lamp.
Don’t get me wrong, those of you that defend the current administration – if the Thrash were small and fast AND winning, southern folks would still enjoy the success.
It’s just my opinion that southern college football fans (me), NASCAR fans, “pro” wrestling fans, etc want a team that plays with an edge.
The Thrash do not now, nor have ever.
World be Free
May 14th, 2009
5:07 pm
The Thrash don’t play with an edge? Ask Buffalo when they were “fighting” for a playoff spot in the last 10 days of the season. The Sabres came to Philips and were run out of the rink by the Thrashers, who had nothing to play for other than pride. I think most of the Thrashers played tough in the 2nd half, even Slava from time to time.
The edge is there, we need 1-2 more players to generate some wins so we can be in the hunt after Christmas. People stopped coming when they don’t see measureable improvements.
And they’d so the same in Canada or other hockey markets too (except Toronto).
Doesn’t matter who the owners are folks, the game’s won on the ice.