Passion For Atlanta’s Hockey History Is Still Aflame – Pt. I
I met up with TJ’s owner Tim Ecclestone last week to discuss some the history of hockey in Atlanta as well as the perceived lack of interaction between the current NHL franchise and those who are affiliated with the old Atlanta Flames.
Ecclestone was drafted by the Rangers in 1967, he was then traded to St. Louis during the ’68 expansion. He played in three Stanley Cup Finals with the Blues before spending time in Detroit and Toronto. Then he came to Atlanta in 1974 where he played for the Flames and also became an assistant coach. When the franchise moved to Calgary in 1980, Tim was offered a chance to move with them… Cliff Fletcher telling him that he would be head coach there, or with some NHL club, within two years.
After much thought and consideration to the idea of relocating his family and leaving the business he had here, he decided to remain in Atlanta and has been here ever since. He’s a member of Atlanta’s chapter of the NHL’s alumni group, along with a handful of other former Flames…Tom Lysiak, Eric Vail, Dan Bouchard, Willi Plett… and players from other teams.
In the late 90’s, Tim and the group were excited to learn that the league had awarded the city of Atlanta with another franchise and they availed themselves to help promote the new team. And in the beginning, that is exactly the relationship shared between the alumni group and the new organization.
“The Thrashers came aboard”, Tim stated, “There was Harvey Schiller and his son Derek, and their marketing team. They called us every week to go out there to different places…promoting the team…signing autographs…and try to drum up season tickets”.
These guys were happy to do it too. The sport does have a rich history, contrary to what some northeast hockey elitists may think, and Ecclestone and his former teammates knew that they could be a big help in marketing the team. After all, as he puts it, the Flames didn’t leave town two decades prior due to a lack of interest in the area.
”This city here has a love affair with the Flames…we put 15,000 down there every night. People think it failed…it didn’t fail. Mr. Cousins had a business decision to make”. Continuing, “We had 18,000 for playoff games and the Omni was rocking…people loved the Flames”!
However…as the inaugural season in 1999 neared, the alumni group suddenly found themselves on the outside looking in.
Ecclestone continued, “They basically brought us in, then kicked us out…I hate to say ‘they used us’, but it was almost like that”.
The purpose was served, so to speak?
“Yeah, you could say it was kinda like that”.
So, what change? Who possibly might have made the decision to place the history of the sport at arms length from the current NHL team?
Ecclestone answered by citing Waddell’s statements during the All Star Game held here two seasons ago. “He said that the gap was far too big between the teams. So we knew we didn’t have his support…Don Waddell has a lot of say-so down there”.
“However”, he added, “It’s really an issue with ownership.”
And a team’s decision to take advantage of the willingness of former players to help…even if they played for a franchise that had been relocated…can be very prudent. Case in point, the Minnesota Wild.
As Tim explains, “The Wild owners embraced the players of the past…North Stars or anyone who played in the league. They brought them in, sat them down and said ‘we want you to be a marketing arm for us. We want you to go out there and be supportive…sign autographs…we want you to be a part of us’”.
“That’s what they did in Minnesota”, he said, “Their alumni is very active in the community”.
Tim says he’s been frustrated with the current ownership’s unwillingness to work with the alumni group though he’s tried to contact them regarding such. Michael Gearon, he says, has been polite enough to return his contacts, but not so Bruce Levenson.
Regardless, Ecclestone and the alumni group continued to support hockey in the community by holding celebrity golf tournaments to raise funds for youth hockey. “We gave money to kids who could make the travel team but didn’t have enough money to go on the travel team…that made us feel good”.
How much money could be raised?
“$15,000 a year…sometimes more. And we gave that to the Cooler…The MIC…minor league hockey…scholarship money…we did this on our own”.
When I asked if he’s still personally active in pursuing any partnership with the Thrashers…to be that link to the city’s hockey roots…he simply said no, and here’s why.
“There was this story in the paper about Darren Eliot taking over promoting youth hockey in the area”. Which was fine and good with Tim and the rest of the guys as they would have been happy to assist him in such endeavors.
“But there was this night down there at Philips Arena when the Calgary Flames were in town playing. There were hundreds of red Flames jerseys, mostly Atlanta Flames jerseys, in the stands…which makes us feel good, we always like to be remembered”. He goes on, “J.P. Dellacamera comments about it and says…’Ya know, I don’t see too many of the old guys around’”.
“Eliot then says, ‘All I know is the Atlanta Spirit and the Atlanta Thrashers down here have done everything they can do to get these guys involved…but they just don’t seem to want to get involved”.
And what was your reaction to that statement, Tim?
“He made that statement”, he replied, “…you’ve got a situation where we’ve busted our butts to raise money in this city for youth hockey…an alumnus in Darren that publicly states we don’t seem to care… and you’ve got a GM that has no interest in us…and an ownership that won’t return our calls. It was disappointing”.
He then stated, “The organization has been very generous to us in regards to providing tickets for alumni, and we are appreciative of that…but I firmly believe that we could be a great service to them in their marketing efforts and promoting the NHL product in the community”.
Ecclestone strongly feels that he and the other members of the alumni group can indeed be a bridge to Atlanta’s hockey past.
“The history of hockey in Atlanta…you can’t just sweep it under the carpet. It’s still there”.
In part two of my discussion with Tim, he shares with us his thoughts on the Thrashers lack of a team “identity” and how it possibly could have been constructed…his attempt to sponsor an Atlanta Hockey History area at Philips Arena…and about two men that were also considered for the GM job eleven years ago, Cliff Fletcher and Brian Burke.
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222 comments Add your comment
Tom
May 11th, 2009
6:17 pm
Cliff Fletcher and Brian Burke.
What could have been.
Having sons very active in inline youth hockey, it would be a thrill for them to meet and learn from the NHL alumni. This is a bridge that needs to be built for the hockey family in Atlanta.
Great post Rawhide!
Eileen
May 11th, 2009
6:49 pm
I have met so many Flames fans at the Thrashers games. I still have my Flames jersey from high school. It is such a shame not to take advantage of the former Flames players who chose to stay in our great city. I love it when the players from the past show up at events in other hockey cities. Why does it always feel like we are begging to be taken seriously as a city who would love a successful hockey team? On another note, my daughter commented to me that she has never seen Ilya with a beard like the one he is sporting in the picture of the Russian championship team. I reminded her that unfortunately we only got to the whiskers stage ONCE in the playoffs!
BG33Brown
May 11th, 2009
6:59 pm
Wow, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised but I am. Just another embarassing aspect of our “ownership group.” What a great article. One of your best ever!
Krust
May 11th, 2009
7:18 pm
Well this reminds me of a very funny insident at Phillips Club section a couple of years ago. My Dad and I are talking to Eric Vail and Don Waddell walks by and the Train goes ” hey Don if you don’t get some good players on this team my friend Harald (my dad) going to beat you over the head with his cane” Vail has a wicked sense of humor. Oh well the Spirit are wasting a good thing. The former players should be involved.
LAC
May 11th, 2009
7:25 pm
Sure wish BOOM-BOOM was still with us !!!! He was a REAL TREASURE for sure and supported Atlanta, living here until his death…
The Flames players SHOULD be involved here… But with Atlanta STUPID Group as owners, well….
Then why won’t don waddell call in Cliff Fletcher for some GM 101…
If anyone needed it is worthless lying waddell ! Cliff could work one day a year for an hour and do more than waddell has in his 10 here…
kracker
May 11th, 2009
7:45 pm
Great Part I article, Bill! It’s a shame, though, that you have to write it. Why there isn’t a room or a wall in Philiups Arena dedicated to the Flames…well, I don’t know why, it makes no sense. They should have it all covered somewhere, the Flames and somethng about the Knights, too.
Everyone wants Atlanta to be taken seriously as a city with some hockey tradition and history but these owners seem to want everyone to believe that hockey in this city began in 1999. That’s so silly! As far as I know, the only display of the old Atlanta hockey tradition at Philips Arena is when fans yell KNIGHTS during the National Anthem.
Sage of Bluesland
May 11th, 2009
7:46 pm
Great, great article….As a kid, I loved going to the Flames games and I wish we could have kept the name/logo (the historical backdrop is simply wonderful and the name is a ‘cool’ one anyway)…”Thrashers” as a name is pretty unremarkable–and a bit silly, but hey, what do I know…
This ownership group–and generally all they employ–are utterly worthless. Elliot is nothing but a clown, the way he bends over for that bumbling, blustering idiot Waddell.
When will you all learn what effects REAL change??? I’ve given you the answer time and again, and yet you still don’t learn???
CUT THE MONEY AND SEE HOW FAST SOMETHING GETS CHANGED.
(Will you EVER learn? I hope so–before it’s too late, anyway…)
R. Stroz
May 11th, 2009
10:36 pm
I’ve been waiting for the truth to come out for years.
That’s right, Atlanta supported a hockey team when the city was a third of its current size and had virtually no northern transplants.
Just imagine if Waddell put a decent product on the ice like Fletcher did. The Flames made the playoffs 6 out of 8 years.
Many thanks to Rawhide and Tim Ecclestone for sharing an accurate account of hockey history in Atlanta.
Brendan
May 11th, 2009
10:37 pm
Excellent item, Rawhide. I would say something, but you left me nothing to add. Missed opportunities is the phrase that best describes what Atlanta passed over when hockey returned to the city.
Shifting gears, how AMAZING is this game of ours? I hope people have been watching this Caps-Pens series. A quick recap, Washington takes both games at home to begin the series. Then, with a GIGANTIC opportunity to put a stranglehold on the series, Game Three goes into overtime. It was won by Pittsbugh, on a goal by Kris Letang. Turning point in the series??? Maybe. The Penguins go on to hold serve at home. Series tied, 2-2. Game Five, in Washington, goes into overtime, where it is won on a PPG by Evgeni Malkin. With the series now, 3-2, in favor of Pittsburgh, that Game Three overtime winner now, INDEED, looking like the turning point of the series. Pittsburgh comes home to the Mellon Arena to salt it away. Game Six is tied, 1-1, when the Caps get a latter half of the 2nd period lead. It appears that the Caps will hold the lead, going into the 3rd period, but instead, a goal with 33 seconds left ties it up, 2-2. So now, the Capitals are 20 minutes away from ELIMINATION.
Sure enough, the Penguins score first in the third period, to take a 3-2 lead. Over? Did anyone say OVER??? Was it OVER when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? (Germans???) Washington pops in two goals in LESS THAN A MINUTE to take a 4-3 lead. Right about the time that the pundits are calling the “time of death” for Pittsburgh, and the questioning of Sidney Crosby in the series, #87 scores an ENORMOUS game-tying goal, fairly late in the 3rd period. Sorry folks, but that’s “clutch play.” I know we don’t like to talk about Crosby in a positive light, but that was HUGE.
Momentum swing?? Series over?? Start the party in Pittsburgh?? Well, they gotta get an overtime winner, first. Nobody told David Steckel, of the Washington Capitals, that the party was on, because he scored to extend the series. That’s right. It’s a final. 5-4, in overtime. We will have Game Seven. Best time of the year.
Ya know what really makes it so good? There are NO EXCUSES NOW. There’s only results. Like it should be. It’s … you either score or you ARE eliminated. There’s no room for excuse-making. It’s just … get out there … and DO IT. Way to go, Capitals. Just when it looks like the Capitals are finished, they pulled it out. Historically, teams that get out to a 2-0 series lead … win the series. And if that happens, it won’t matter what went wrong in games 3, 4 and 5. Guess what the NHL gives for three (3) playoff wins? Actually, it’s a fruit basket. Who knew? It comes with a card. The card reads, “If you played better, you would have won. Better luck next year. Warm Regards, Commish Bettman.”
By the way, Chicago, at HOME, got out to a 3-1 lead, but Vancouver has scored twice, while FACING ELIMINATION, to tie the game. It’s 3-3, late in the 2nd period. That’s a great series, too. What BEATS this time of year???
B. Thenet
May 11th, 2009
11:08 pm
It is not just former Flames.
10 years into the Thrashers franchise, and I don’t think a single former Thrashers player is part of the org. Odgers was the radio color guy for a while, but not one former Thrasher in management, public relations, or anything.
Brendan
May 11th, 2009
11:31 pm
B.Thenet, you’d think Ray Ferraro, a former Captain, would have been given some opportunity with the franchise. Scott Mellanby offered, or he says, to stay and work “for peanuts,” in a front office type job.
LAC
May 11th, 2009
11:32 pm
Great artical Bill, I totally agree with the others, Sage & Stroz, two who know what is best for hockey here.
Damn shame we have there worthless owners who care nothing about the sport of hockey. These owners LIE like nobody I have ever seen in my life.
I just wish drunk levenson, LIAR snydel and worthless wimp geron would all go to the top of Philips Arena and jump off, never to be seen or heard from ever again !!!!!! Just sweep up their bodies like cow $hit
and just THROW them out with the trash ! How GREAT would that be !!!!!!
Brendan
May 11th, 2009
11:38 pm
What an amazing game out in Chicago. Hawks got up, 3-1, but squandered it. The Canucks climbed back to a 4-3 lead. Hawks tied it, 4-4. Vancouver went up, 5-4. Hawks tied it, 5-5. Then Toews and Kane completed their legacies. Kane had a hat trick. It’s not over yet. But it’s 7-5.
I repeat, SEVVVVEN to FIIIIVE. Hard to believe that netminders the caliber of Khabibulin and Luongo would give up so many goals in the MOST IMPORTANT GAME of their respective seasons. Hey, Vancouver got amazing performances from the Sedins and Mats Sundin. I thought, at various portion of this game, that the Canucks had it, and would be going back to Vancouver for Game Seven.
StateBird
May 11th, 2009
11:38 pm
Good night Canada. The last Great North hope goes down again.
Brendan
May 11th, 2009
11:40 pm
Less than a minute to go now. Chicago 7, Vancouver 5. The Canucks fired GM Dave Nonis because he didn’t advance the team into the Conference Finals. It appears that Mike Gillis, the new GM, will likewise fail to meet that objective. So, where does Vancouver go from here??
Midfield
May 11th, 2009
11:53 pm
By the way, I remember Semin causing all kinds of indignation by putting Kane over Crosby. Did you see Kane tonight? I’m glad I did.
Brendan
May 11th, 2009
11:57 pm
This is amazing to watch. Look at these Chicago Blackhawk fans at the United Center. That’s a hockey town, for sure. It was a long time coming. But when the cancer was removed, and the light of the sun shone upon NEW OWNERSHIP direction in Chicago, look at the results? They’re making PUUUUUUURE PROFIT called “playoff money.” In October, it was far from certain that Chicago would be among the playoff field. They got in, with solid defense and goaltending, at the #4 spot. Now look at them. Their owner is guaranteed another $4 million in pure profit, when they host two more home games in the Conference Finals. It didn’t hurt that, from #5 in the lottery draft, Chicago won and got to select Patrick Kane. But they also drafted Toews, 3rd overall. In 2005, they took Jack Skille 7th overall. They got Cam Barker, #3 overall, in 2004. With their 2nd round picks, Chicago selected Dave Bolland, Bryan Bickell, and Ryan Garlock. In 2003, Chicago took Corey Seabrook, 14th overall. They took Corey Crawford 52nd overall. In 2002, Chicago took Anton Babchuk 21st overall, with Duncan Keith, 54th overall. At pick #156, Chicago took James Wisniewski. Still in 2002, (Are you kidding me?,) with pick #282, Chicago took Adam Burish. In 2001, Chicago’s picks included Tuomo Ruutu, 9th overall, and Adam Munro at #29.
The Chicago GM is Dale Tallon. He was awarded the position in June 2005. Chicago is one of my two “adopted” Western Conference teams this year, along with Columbus. I’ll be rooting for Chicago no matter who their opponent is in the CF. If it’s Anaheim, Chicago will HOST GAME ONE. Imagine the excitement there!
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
12:06 am
By the way, everything I just described above, for CHICAGO, could be happening right here in Atlanta. It starts with new ownership and/or a new business model. If ya think about it, ya know it’s true. Boston got rid of Harry Sinden. Now look at them! It starts from the top.
I promise you … it CANNNNNN really happen here. But meaningful changes must be made. Instead, the organization treads water. Is it true, that that last contract Don Waddell signed was Toby Enstrom’s, last October?
Phil Foley
May 12th, 2009
1:23 am
Great article, Bill. You’d think that the Spirit would pay homage to the past and the hockey history here. It’s not like this is a vapid hockey market like the Canadian press and Sun Belt hockey haters would have us believe.
Your piece was a bit of an eye opener — never really thought why the organization didn’t set aside a part of the arena to both Hawks and Atlanta hockey history. A lot of teams are making a decent buck creating a team Hall of Fame and charging admission/running tours. You’d think the Spirit would follow that trend.
We were talking before the Hawks game tonight and it’s amazing how the hockey teams generally beat out the Hawks in attendance, until this season. All the Spirit needs to get to a sellout level every game is a good team. One of these days they will realize that.
squawks mcgrew
May 12th, 2009
7:14 am
Excellent piece and another shining example of how much our management doesn’t get it or us.
Quite a few of us are die-hard Flames fans. I actually still have a Jacques Richard jersey (upgrading to a both a road and home Bobby MacMillian so I’d have something that fit for the Thrashers games). I love seeing others in the old jerseys or bumping into Willi Plett at the arena and getting the chance to thank him for the memories.
Always wondered why the Spirit displayed no spirit with the past. Another reason I’m an ex-STH
Hip Czech
May 12th, 2009
7:57 am
Not sure how to do links anymore…but apparently Rawhide calling the Stupid Group out worked…
http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/story/11736115/rss
‘One of the team’s owners, Washington businessman Bruce Levenson, said Monday “there is no truth to the rumor” the ownership group has been involved in discussions about taking the team out of Atlanta, including with a Vancouver group reportedly interested in relocating the Thrashers to Hamilton, Ontario.
The Hamilton Spectator reported on Saturday Vancouver developer Tom Gaglardi heads a group interested in moving the Thrashers to Canada. There also are efforts to move the Phoenix Coyotes to Hamilton.
Levenson said his Atlanta Spirit LLC ownership group, which also owns the NBA’s Atlanta Hawks and operating rights to Philips Arena, recently hired an agency to “explore inquiries” from possible investors. He said there are ongoing talks but added “none involve moving either team.” ‘
Guess the Belkin bill is coming due.
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
8:14 am
So many of the old Flames still live here. The Spirit should tap into the hockey history that already exists.
Guess Patrick Kane isn’t too small after all-good Western New York boy.
Hamilton is an armpit-why would anyone want to put a team there?
Dingo Cheesepuff
May 12th, 2009
8:46 am
I’m not surprised at all. From day one the Thrashers have done just about everything they could *not* to market themselves. From a lack of a team identity (how many captains has this team had, exactly?), to poor play on the ice, to alienating the old Flames that still live here. Almost everything about this franchise is a joke.
Why they haven’t done a throwback night when Calgary is in town is beyond me. How great would it be to see the Thrashers and the Flames play, with the Thrashers wearing the burning A?
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Owners.
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
9:10 am
It’s a shame… but every CEO, General Manager or even President of the United States has a vision of how things should run. And none of them would be worth a damn if they didn’t stick to their guns.
The Thrashers are not the Flames, in this case… they don’t even play in the same building. If the Thrashers are to have their own identity, they should be considered separate from the Flames… which also doesn’t help that people scream “Knights” during the anthem… I’ve slowly changed my position on this… I don’t say it anymore.
But it IS a shame that we would completely cut off the hockey history in this town… but I’m not gonna label ownership and management as martyrs because they think they need their own identity.
Do the Brewers have Milwaukee Braves night?… do the Mets and Yankees have Brooklyn Dodgers night?… do the Houston Texans have Houston Oilers night?
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
9:19 am
Celebrate what the Flames brought to Atlanta, not the fact that they moved to Calgary. The Cargary Flames still feature the Atlanta Flames logo on their shoulders.
I am sure many of the Flames’ players would like to be part of our current team.
Bob
May 12th, 2009
9:20 am
Doesn’t anyone understand why he won’t let the ex-Flames near the club? Or why he won’t allow Mellanby or any old Thrashers around the club?
There have been three ownership groups for this club, but there’s one constant here. Before Waddell was hired Ecclestone says that the Schiller’s opened their arms to him, but Donnie put a stop to that.
It’s clear to me that it’s Waddell that has kept them away from the club. Why? Good leaders surround themselves with great people and want input from experts in their field. Waddell surrounds himself with lackeys and yes men, and we are where we are. It’s why our scouting dept. stinks, it’s why our marketing dept. stinks. When it stinks at the top, it stinks all the way through the organ-I-zation.
Nothing meaningful will change here until meaningful changes are made a real GM in brought in.
Great games last night. Looking forward to the Game 7 tomorrow night, should be awesome. Chicago once again proved what I’ve thought for a long time, Luongo is probably the most overrated goalie in this league. Makes all the saves that mean nothing, but has never won anything big and lets in 7 goals last night on 30 shots. The Couv played well enough to live but had a big hole in their net last night. Luongo is just plain overrated.
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
9:34 am
“Why they haven’t done a throwback night when Calgary is in town is beyond me. How great would it be to see the Thrashers and the Flames play, with the Thrashers wearing the burning A?”
It would be one thing if the Flames had folded, but they STILL EXIST… they’re in Calgary. Why would a new owner want to constantly recognize that?
That would be like a hamburger joint going out of business and was replaced by an Italian restaurant and they have to keep serving burgers because it USED to be a hamburger joint… once a month you invite the old owner and his cooking staff in to cook burgers and fries for old time sake.
Rawhide… I have my response prepared for the Brian Burke portion of your article.
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 12th, 2009
9:56 am
I’m pretty sure the Flaming A is Flames property…they recently announced they’re moving their AHL AHL affiliate to Abbotsford, B.C., which means the flaming A will be used there.
Sorry, but sometimes the trademark is property of the team, which means the Flaming A likely went to Canada with the rest of the team.
You don’t see the Wild wearing the North Stars logo…do you?
Hijacker
May 12th, 2009
10:11 am
@Bob: Check out the following topic from a Thrashers message board. It’s a “beautiful” summary of the Thrashers hockey operations staff. You already covered some of the points.
http://forums.atlantathrashers.com/index.php?showtopic=24373
Glovesave29
May 12th, 2009
10:23 am
I have seen MLB and NFL all do throwback nights…so yes, I have seen Milwaukee Braves games in the past few years when the Braves play the Brewers.
The Flames are moving their AHL affiliate…AGAIN? Really? Wow! First Saint Johns, then Omaha, then Quad Cities, and now Abbotsford in a five year period. I’ll say it again – Thrash…move Gwinnett to the AHL.
According to Tom Saladino and Jim Huber, in the book “The Babes of Winter, the first years of the Atlanta Flames” the name Thrashers was a leading vote getter. Flames won, but did not get the most votes, it was just the most fitting name.
Bill, can wait to hear the collective jaws drop in part two. Tim dropped some bombs, and fans are not going to be happy. Gotta grin a mile wide waiting for part two!!!
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
10:24 am
Remember Levenson’s deal. If Thrashers fans stop yelling “Knights!” during the anthem for 5-straight games, Waddell gets fired. But if the yelling continues, or doesn’t quite go all the way to 5 games, Waddell stays … FOREVER. And ever. And ever. Like Mr. Grady’s girls at the “Overlook Hotel,” from the “Shining.”
That’s the deal, folks. So, if you want Waddell gone, you’ll just have suppress the anthem screaming. It’s a “tough, but fair” deal. Personally, I’m willing. If it’s the sacrifice we all must make for the “change we need,” then I’m happy to be a “silent partner.”
Bob
May 12th, 2009
10:35 am
Interesting in depth look at Waddell and Co’s inexperience, Hijacker. I’ve thought from about year 2 that Waddell was in way over his head and just not up to the job. It’s just pure selfish looking out for #1 by him to bring in lackeys with no experience. It’s what incompetent managers do, they surround themselves with lesser talent, that way there is no one who can stand up to him, no one to shine the light on his incompetence. You couple that with the lack of hockey knowledge amongst the Spirit boys and we have the Perfect Storm that this club wallows in year after year. And we’ll wallow in it again next year, and every year until Waddell is gone and a real GM is brought in here.
Brian Burke fully expected the job to be offered to him 10 or 11 years ago. Instead, they gave it to Waddell. That single moved damned this franchise from the get go. Burke, the best GM in this league, would have had this club in deep playoff runs and we’d have multiple divison and Conference banners hanging from the rafters and the place would be full every night.
There are tons of hockey fans in this town. As stroz points out, that’s the truth.
It’s also the truth that the reason the place is half empty every night is that the majority of us long time hockey fans have known for many years that Waddell is incapable of building a successful club and it’s a moot point to waste your money supporting a losing proposition.
The good news is that all of us long time fans will come back when they finally get a real GM in here and get this franchise finally on track.
Did anyone pick up the interesting comment from Levenson. Read what he said about hiring the firm to field inquiries from potential investors. My take is that they are going to have to buy out Belkin, and they can’t afford it, so they are looking at selling off the Thrashers to someone or a group who will keep them here in town. Almost assuredly the new owner(s) would be a guy or guys who know and love hockey. This means Waddell and his incompetent band of lackeys would be gone. This means they’d bring in someone competent. This means we’d finally be on the road to building a club. And if they can get this done in the next year, it may be in time to sway Kovy and get him to re-sign under the new GM and owners.
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
10:44 am
How about Pat Quinn, ex-Flame? I’d say he has some experience.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
10:46 am
Thanks Rawhide, now we know. Atlanta supported the Flames when they went to the playoffs. Just like they support the Thrashers only if they go to the playoffs. Just like the Hawks, Braves, etc. Atlanta is a bandwagon town even for “southern” sports. That is not a good recipe for a “foreign” sport like hockey. If they only support a team that is winning, ownership suffers too much during down years and will not take a gamble that a team like the Bruins would. The Bruins were still losers when they got the big free agents like Chara, Savard, etc. because they still had a base that was supporting them in down years. As a result they turned their fortunes around. That will never happen in Atlanta and you lose the free agent wars every time because of it. Hockey won’t make it in Atlanta because you won’t support a team through good times AND bad to get it to make the changes. So things never change.
Midfield
May 12th, 2009
10:46 am
Brendan, did Levenson put his signiture under this deal? And if he did, was it notarized?
Rawhide
May 12th, 2009
10:48 am
ranallo – No, you don’t see the Wild wearing the North Stars’ logo…but you do see them incorporating the there colors, (green and gold), into their uniforms today. That’s where the green comes from.
The way it’s been explained to me…the Wild have mixed the colors of the North Stars with the U. of Minn.’s colors.
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
10:51 am
“Interesting in depth look at Waddell and Co’s inexperience, Hijacker. I’ve thought from about year 2 that Waddell was in way over his head and just not up to the job.”
You mean when his budget was $17 million… I think anyone would be “over their head”.
R. Stroz
May 12th, 2009
10:54 am
Ti-Cat – Atlanta supported the Flames the entire time they were here, in the regular season and the playoffs. Unless you were in Atlanta during the 1970’s, you might want to defer to those of us who were here.
That said, Flames fans didn’t experience bad teams since they were in the playoffs 6 of 8 seasons.
R. Stroz
May 12th, 2009
10:57 am
GaVaHokie – Tell us what you think about Dan Marr, PLEASE!
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
10:59 am
“Brian Burke fully expected the job to be offered to him 10 or 11 years ago. Instead, they gave it to Waddell. That single moved damned this franchise from the get go. Burke, the best GM in this league, would have had this club in deep playoff runs and we’d have multiple divison and Conference banners hanging from the rafters and the place would be full every night.”
Wow… what a dramatic overstatement… must be nice for Burke to have a nice ball-fluffer like you… he won Conference titles and a Stanley Cup for Atlanta just in theory!
So obviously, since we’re making dramatic overstatements, if Brian Burke is the GM of Atlanta, we could have had Chris Pronger and Scott Neidermayer? And surely, ownership would have gladly paid to the salary cap maximum every year.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
11:03 am
This is what I don’t understand. People say Atlanta would support a real team and also if they got rid of Don Waddell. Yet when you had Dany Heatley and Ilya Kovalchuk as rookies with players like Savard and Kozlov among others you only had 13 thousand a night which was only better than 2 other teams in the league. The following year you still only had 13 thousand a night when everyone should have known what you had in Kovalchuk and Heatley (and Savard, Kozlov, etc). Why didn’t you support those guys then if you are such a good hockey town?
R. Stroz
May 12th, 2009
11:04 am
GaVaHokie – But we may have had the Sedin sisters instead of drafting Stephanie.
Sara
May 12th, 2009
11:06 am
Bob according to Levenson in comments he made a few months back or so, what they are actually looking for is an investor to come in and purchase Belkin’s 30% stake.
Bob
May 12th, 2009
11:07 am
Hokie, you have so little credibility left, you’re the same genius that said we were just fine without Brian Campbell, even better off getting Hainsey because it saved us money, right? Did you watch the ‘Hawks dismantle the Canucks? Do you watch Campbell handle the puck for them and feed their forwards up ice? If I remember correctly, you’re the same genius that called Luongo the greatest goalie in the league, right?
Stick to VA Tech football, Hokie, and leave the hockey discussion to those of us that know the game.
Adam
May 12th, 2009
11:09 am
There are so many things that these owners have done, or not done, that have damaged the image of the team. You almost have to find it humorous at this point. These guys are not very people friendly, their ego’s are as big as all out doors. They should change their name to Arrogant Spurious.
Look at the changes in Chicago. Most nights at the United Center from 1998-2006 you could just about have a conversation with a guy on the other side of the rink. In 06 they held the same spot in attendance we hold now, although we had about 900 more on average. But we all know just because they announce 14600 doesn’t mean there are butts in those seats. In the lower 48 if a team doesn’t win the fans just don’t show up. We have so many other things to spend our entertainment dollars on, unlike the Frozen North. When Dollar Bill died last year there was no TV deal in Chicago, PPV only, and while they had some of their pieces in place they were far from where they are today. The day after they put him in the ground they went on a marketing bonanza. If you remember last summer they hired their “Hockey Advisor” by taking Scotty Bowman away from Detriot. He is now listed as “Senior Advisor of Hockey Operations”
Hey Atlanta Spirit, in case you didn’t catch last nights Chicago Vancouver game. It was announced that they had sold over 1 million tickets so far this year. I know, I know Phillips is smaller than the United Center by 1750 seats. That just means the team will have to play at least 3 more games past the semifinals…
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
11:10 am
R. Stroz – exactly that’s all I hear about Atlanta. You only support a team if it wins. But yet the Thrashers won a division title and you still couldn’t attract decent crowds in your best years. Now they are losing again and you are back to the bottom 2-3 teams in the league. So if in your glory years you are in the bottom 10 teams in the league how can you possibly consider yourself a hockey market? You have supposedly 5 million people to draw from and you get 13 thousand in bad years, 15 thousand if you win a division title. That is not what I would call a good market if I owned a team.
Bob
May 12th, 2009
11:11 am
“according to Levenson in comments he made a few months back or so, what they are actually looking for is an investor to come in and purchase Belkin’s 30% stake”
Don’t listen to what they say (especially Levenson!), watch what they do (and form your own educated opinions on the planned action).
They don’t need a firm to field someone to just step into Belkin’s position, it’s already set up. Plus, who would want to step into that group, especially in this shaky financial market? No, they need to sell off assets to raise the cash, and the most likely, in my opinion, is to sell the Thrashers to someone that will keep them here and playing in the arena they own.
Spud Webb
May 12th, 2009
11:13 am
WOW Rawhide, I am floored. Great article, I had no idea. Just sad I say. Seems like every single day we find out more and more what a bunch of “not smart” people are running the Thrashers. Looking forward to the second part. I wish Don would step down.
Bob
May 12th, 2009
11:14 am
“You have supposedly 5 million people to draw from and you get 13 thousand in bad years”
We sold out games in the early years, even when we were bad. I was a full season ticket holder, then dropped down to half, and finally last year gave up. The reason? Same reason that many of the guys that sat around me gave as they left, we had no confidence in Waddell’s ability to ice a quality club, and those that left early and continued to leave have been proven right.
The good news is that we’ll all be back once the inept GM is gone and there’s hope for the franchise again. It can be done, we just need the right GM to build it.
Adam
May 12th, 2009
11:24 am
Ti-Cat, see above.
It’s funny you bring up Boston’s attendance. Hmmm in 07 they averaged 14764. Lets see this year Atlanta averaged 14646. This year Boston 17039. Quite a hockey market you’ve got up there…
Do a little research before you post. —> http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance
Dwayne
May 12th, 2009
11:25 am
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ…………ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ……..ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ…….ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ……..ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ……ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ…..ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ……ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ…….
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
11:33 am
Adam, I did do my research. Hmmm in 07 Boston was in 13th in the conference and Atlanta was in 3rd in the conference. Yet Boston still averaged more than 100 people per game. Boston in a down year is better than Atlanta in a title year. Thanks for making my argument for me. Quite a hockey market you got down there, you won the division and still couldn’t outdraw one of the bottom teams in the league.
Do a little research before you post. –>
http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?season=20062007&type=CON&navid=NAV|STN|Conf
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
11:38 am
“We sold out games in the early years, even when we were bad.”
Yes, I see in 2001 which was your first or second year in the league you were 23rd out of 30 teams in the league. Bravo. In 2002 you were 28th out of 30 teams. Ah those successful early years for your hockey market.
Alan
May 12th, 2009
11:43 am
Hmmm in 07 Boston was in 13th in the conference and Atlanta was in 3rd in the conference. Yet Boston still averaged more than 100 people per game.
What?
In 2007, Atlanta averaged 16240 per game, while Boston averaged 14764. Hmm, so let’s see… that means Atlanta averaged 1476 more people per game than Boston did. Sounds like a bit of revisionist history. Care to explain yourself?
Difficulty: Explain yourself without insulting our intelligence.
Dwayne
May 12th, 2009
11:52 am
Atlanta, no stanley cup this year…..boston….not going to win one this year either. Go Carolina and Washington. And I don’t care if “at least boston made the playoffs” quote is used…..In the famous words of Ricky Bobbie…”if you aint first, your last”
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
12:01 pm
“GaVaHokie – But we may have had the Sedin sisters instead of drafting Stephanie.”
No, I’m pretty sure we would still have Stephanie… almost any GM would have drafted him. It’s called a “Consensus” #1.
Burke has a worst draft history than Waddell.
Ducks draft history… Burke took over in 2005.
http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00004643.html
Vancouver Canucks from 1998-2004
http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008756.html
Hijacker
May 12th, 2009
12:09 pm
GaVaHokie: “You mean when his budget was $17 million… I think anyone would be “over their head”.
..that’s just another excuse for failure.
Look over to Nashville! Do you honestly think they operated on a higher budget than the Thrashers? David Poile is a MUCH better GM than Don Waddell. In the first couple of years of the existance of the Predators, he placed an emphasis of building through the draft & player development.
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
12:09 pm
I’m sorry all the Season Ticket Holders wasted their money in the early years when hockey was a novelty, when ownership only wanted to get their feet wet by spending $11 million to $25 million on player salaries. It was obvious the intent was to get the northern transplants to come see THEIR teams play while they slowly built a team through the draft.
It wasn’t until after the lock out that ownership made a commitment (if you want to call $37 million a commitment) to build a contender. And that was the year we added Bondra, Holik, Mellanby and Havelid and came within two points of the playoffs while going through 5 goalies.
Like I always say… if it wasn’t for the Lehtonen groin pulls, the Thrashers make the playoffs in 05-06 and we’re not having this annoying, never-dying argument.
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
12:20 pm
Hijacker… you’re right… Nashville made the playoffs in 03-04 with the lowest salary in the league at $21 million. They also lost in the first round that year and every year after… I personally wouldn’t say Dave Poile is MUCH better, but you’re free to say that.
Adam
May 12th, 2009
12:20 pm
@ Ti-Cat
you also have to remember where the Thrasher were the year before in 06 and the fact that at the beginning of the season attendance was still down. The second half it was much better.
But yea that 100 person advantage really makes Boston a much better market than Atlanta. I guess that also makes Columbus a better market than both of ours.
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
12:40 pm
Ti-Cat, as in Hamilton Ti-Cats. If Hamilton wants to hijack a hockey team, they can go to another city and get ready to pay 60M to update the Copps Mausoleum, pay Toronto and Buffalo $75M to park a team in their backyards.
Hamilton has never supported their franchises, so why should they get one now?
frosty the snowman
May 12th, 2009
12:56 pm
Hokie also said a couple seasons ago that if we signed Marleau we would be a dynasty.
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
1:12 pm
Wow… it’s funny how everyone remembers what I said… even i forgot about that one.
Kovalchuk Marleau and Hossa would have been a damn good line.
Bob… I believe what I said was we were better off with Hainsey, Williams and Reasoner for the price that we offered Campbell. I believe I said that in the first half of the year when Hainsey went for 13 points in Oct-Nov and Campbell went for 17 points… and Hainsey was among the Top 8 defensemen in the Eastern Conference, which is why I suggested him for the All Star Team.
… before someone brings THAT up too.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
1:26 pm
Atlanta sold out 38 of 41 home games and set an attendance record while doing so, while amassing a WHOPPING 39-points. Then something happened. Guess what it was?
Go ahead. Take your time, now. Think about it.
An organization COMMITTED to GROWTH suddenly the saw the departure of most of building pieces in Donald Audette, Andrew Brunette, Frank Kaberle, Steve Staios, Jiri Slegr, Petr Buzek, and it became apparent that Damian Rhodes was NOT the netminder we all hoped he’d be.
Translation: Fans saw “mismanagement.” To be clear, this wasn’t about wins and losses. It was about seeing HOWWWWWWW the organization was being run, and wanting to voice displeasure over its DECISION-MAKING. You wouldn’t go to a restaurant that serves cat as fried chicken on the menu, would you? You’d voice your protest by not going back. People, for example, wouldn’t say, “Well, this is the only Chinese restaurant in a 30-mile radius, so … cats or not cats on the menu, we’d better support it, or it could close.” Same deal.
Atlanta fans said, “Woah. What’s goin’ on here? We’re all DOWN with the building project. But what’s up with this “zero sum” economics?” The goal should be to keep ADDDING pieces, not subtracting them and hoping to backfill what was lost. This is where fans began to wonder aloud, “Maybe Don Waddell didn’t really hang the moon.” Others were asking, “What’s up with ownership? They’re not empowering Waddell to do his job, and to be a BETTER GM. We’re losing players that we shouldn’t be losing. This isn’t a cogent building project. What gives?”
So yes, in Atlanta, people demand accountability over DIRECTION of the team. I have no doubt that Atlanta fans will hang through a rebuilding project, so long as it is done in capable hands. The first around, it was done by Don Waddell. The second time around … it was done … by Don Waddell. This is what has “some fans” up in arms, in stunned disbelief, thinking, “isn’t it time to give SOMEONE ELSE a chance.”
In other words, restore the “faith” that things are being handled properly … and the fans will come back. It won’t a 110-point season, with 50 or more wins. It’ll take a BELIEEEEEF that things are moving CORRECTLY. That’s all an Atlanta fans asks. Sadly, the ownership has rarely, if ever, delivered on that count.
Audette came to Atlanta with Frank Kaberle on March 13, 2000, from Los Angeles, in exchange for Kelly Buchberger and Nelson Emerson. Audette was traded to Buffalo on March 13, 2001, for Kamil Piros and Buffalo’s 4th round pick, later traded to St. Louis at the 2001 Draft.
Wanna know what happened to Kamil Piros, the Audette “replacement?” Oh, c’mon now. You do. Get those hands a-way up high! Piros was traded to Florida for Kyle Rossiter, on March 8, 2004. Riveting, wasn’t it? And full-on replacement for Audette, no? So, what became of Kyle Rossiter, the “new” Audette replacement? Answer: He was LOANED to Wilkes-Barre of the AHL, from the Chicago Wolves (AHL Thrashers affiliate), FOR CASH. Kyle Rossiter later signed as a free agent with Asiago, in ITALY, on February 23, 2006. Maybe he’s still there?
Okay, what about Steve Staios? Atlanta acquired Staios from New Jersey for “future considerations” on July 10, 2000. The Thrashers were UNWILLING to give Staios a 10% raise, so … as an unrestricted free agent, he signed with Edmonton on July 12, 2001. Staios won’t be mistaken for a Tier I blueliner, but he certainly was a capable-enough NHL defender, lo these many years, while Atlanta chased its tail with replacements like Andy Sutton, Jaroslav Slowdry, and Alexei Zhitnik. Poster Bob has the “official list” of Waddell blueliner blunders. Ask him for it.
What about Andrew Brunette? Atlanta acquired him on June 21, 1999, from Nashville, in exchange for Atlanta’s 5th round draft pick, who turned out to be Matt Hendricks, in the 2000 Entry Draft. Pretty good deal there, by Waddell. Loved it. What happened next, not so much!! Brunette “walked for nothing” in free agency, un-signed by Atlanta, to the Minnesota Wild on July 17, 2001. Major misstep. Brunette is still in the league.
What about Jiri Slegr? Slegr was acquired by Atlanta, from Pittsburgh, on January 14, 2001. The cost was 3rd round, “throw away” pick previously acquired from San Jose. Who cares who Pittsburgh took with it. On March 19, 2002, Atlanta traded Slegr to Detroit, where he got his name on the Cup, by playing in Game 5 vs. Carolina. Detroit coughed up Yuri Butsayev and Detroit’s 3rd round pick in the 2002 Entry Draft. Atlanta wound up trading that pick to Columbus for reasons I’m still not clear about. Soooo, what ever happened to Butsayev, the Slegr “replacement?” Atlanta assigned Butsayev to Russia’s Yaroslavl on November 22, 2002. On July 1, 2003, Butsayev, as an unrestricted free agent, signed in Russia with CSKA Moscow. Woo-hoo!!
Allright, what about Atlanta’s 1st “All-Star,” Petr Buzek? Anyone? Anyone at all? Atlanta acquired Buzek at the 1999 Entry Draft, via trade with Dallas, June 25, 1999. Buzek suffered a neck injury and missed a substantial amount of time in 2000-2001. On December 18, 2001, with Atlanta’s 6th round pick (Adam Pardy) in the 2004 Draft for Jeff Cowan and the rights to Kurtis Foster. Cowan actually played a few years in Atlanta. But on March 9, 2004, Cowan was traded to Los Angeles for Kip Brennan, remember him? Kip Brennan played all of 5 games for Atlanta. He spent the 2003-04 season has a healthy reserve. Woo-hoo! On September 27, 2004, Brennan signed with the AHL’s Chicago Wolves as an unrestricted free agent. On August 23, 2005, Kip Brennan was dealt to the Anaheim Ducks for Mark Popovic. Kip Brennan signed, as an unrestricted free agent, with the NY Islanders on July 3, 2007. Popovic came along through Chicago and appeared to be “NHL-ready” for Atlanta. In total, Popovic played 44 games for the Thrashers, with zero goals and three assists, for 3-pts, and was a -8. Atlanta never re-signed him after 2008. So, he walked.
What about the “rights to Kurtis Foster?” Kurtis Foster played 5 games for Atlanta, with zero goals, 1-assist, and one-point and was a -2. Foster came over with Cowan from Calgary, for Petr Buzek. Kurtis Foster was then traded to Anaheim, on June 26, 2004, for Nic Havlid. Pretty good. Havelid played many years in Atlanta. But he was dealt at the 2009 trade deadline, to New Jersey, for Ansi Salmela. That’s the evoluation of Petr Buzek to the “present day.” What about Cowan? He was dealt for Kip Brennan, remember? And Brenna was traded for Popovic, who left for free agency.
Okay, I left someone out. Frank Kaberle. Kaberle did play 5 seasons with Atlanta, coming over with Audette, for Buchberger and Nelson Emerson, going back to L.A. Kings. Kaberle was never re-signed before the lockout. As a result, he became an unrestricted free agent, where he signed on with Carolina, and helped them win the Stanley Cup in 2006. Quite literally, Frank Kaberle scored the Stanley Cup winning goal for Carolina.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
1:28 pm
Alan – I took that other posters number instead of looking up the number. So I should have done it myself which made me wrong. Either way, Atlanta is in the bottom 10 teams in the league in their best of years and the bottom 2-3 teams in their worst of years. That is not good. While you may point at Boston keep in mind they also support the beanpot and many other things hockey in addition to the Bruins. If we ever take this argument beyond attendance do you really think your tv ratings are going to compare to the Bruins?
Face it guys Atlanta just cannot even support a winning team (you are always in the bottom 10 teams) and in your down years are pitiful at supporting a losing team. Time to relocate.
Tony C.
May 12th, 2009
1:29 pm
Waaaaah!
Waaah!
I feel for Canadian fans-really I do. I also think that there could/should be 2 more teams north of the border. But telling me that myself and the rest of my friends and extended family that root for Le Thrash are “less deserving” than a fan in say Hamilton is hogwash.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
1:39 pm
And now you know, “The Rest of the St–St– I mean tale.” (I don’t want to get myself in copyright trouble.)
R. Stroz
May 12th, 2009
1:41 pm
The essence is this:
The Thrashers have a minor league GM with an ego which willn’t incorporate or acknowledge Atlanta’s hockey history, minor league scouts posing as NHL scouts, and an incessant desire to promote their groupthink propaganda using mouth pieces such as Darren Eliot.
Didn’t George Orwell warn us about this kind of stuff?
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
1:43 pm
Tony C. – you will never hear me say that Dallas is not deserving. But Atlanta needs to show up to more games if you want people from the north to stop the relocation talk. And you must stop using the “we don’t have a good team” excuse because there are many examples of teams who rank high in non-playoff years in support and again in your good years you cannot get out of the bottom 10 teams in the league.
LAC
May 12th, 2009
1:48 pm
Well I figured it out for those “canada” fair weather fans of NHL hockey.
Let’s do this and IT WILL WORK !!!!!
Move Montreal to Memphis, Montreal is NOT a major league town,face it canada fans, and hockey would flourish in the Midsouth !!!!! Simply makes sense for a floundering team !
Then Ottawa, a TRUE MINOR league city that cannot sustain a pro hockey team, Jacksonville, Fl is the best place for them, new arena and lots of fans,would be GREAT !
Next Toronto, a minor major league town, move them to Charlotte.
Charlotte was once a farm team of their’s, and a nice SE setup comes to pass… Great move !
Then the Flames, since Calergy cannot return HOME, they would be a good fit in Houston, where they don REAL Cowboy Hats !!!! Solid move !
Then Edmonton, BURRRR, the cold Alberta will be a lost memory in New Orleans,playing before sold out crowds !!!! A wonderful move indeed !!!
Lastly why does Vancouver have any pro sports teams,they are MINOR league all the way,since The Sprint Center is READY in Kansas City, there is a GREAT PRO SPORTS TOWN along with GREAT Steaks at The Golden Ox !
These moves make complete sense, it would evolve the NHL to new heights and why would they need teams in canada anyhow, simply too many fickle fans with too little brains, so a NEW SE division will be born and they
can have Elvis night twice a year in Memphis !
The NHL needs to wake up and relocate these less than deserving teams
from the wasteland of canada to the Great South, where REAL Sports are played !
Tony C.
May 12th, 2009
1:49 pm
Oh and I forgot to say:
WAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
16 years in a row no Canadian-based team has won The Cup.
WAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!
P.S. The best player in the league is Russian.
Blame Eric Lindros and the Nordiques…
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
1:51 pm
Maybe the folks up north should just mind their own damn business.
And again Ti-Cat, who sez Hamilton deserves a franchise anyhow? Hamiltonians have been whining that they deserve a franchise since the 80’s. Hamilton built that stupid white elepahnt Copps building without a commitment from anyone.
You cannot blame us for their stupidity.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
1:52 pm
R. Stroz – minor league scouts? You guys have some of the best prospects in the league, you just ended the year on a hot streak and most of your players are drafted from within. Please, I beg you, take a team that has Ilya K, Little, Bogosian, Enstrom, and guys like Postma and Pavelec in your system, whoever you pick this next draft, give it to the north and they will gladly support it. The fact that you guys don’t even appreciate what you have is another reason to relocate this team.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
1:57 pm
Tony C. – 16 years in a row you needed Canadian players to win a championship in your cities. If you think we are begging for Vinny Bag-a-donuts to come play for a team in the north think again.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
1:57 pm
Having sellouts in bad years has led Toronto to ZERO cups in 40+ years. There’s no accountability. There’s no reason for Leaf ownership to change anything. They got their money. ALLLL of it. They can run as inept of a franchise as they’d like. The fans keep coming.
Fans should demand more. They’re the customer. If the product is mismanaged, fans should withhold their support. And most fans around the league … do. When ownership/management makes the correction, the fans will be back.
In the case of the Thrashers, specifically, what CHANGE has been made? Don Waddell, and his staff, are STILL HERE! Even a President has to leave office after TEN YEARS!! But there’s just no getting rid of Waddell. Ifffff they fire Waddell, and the fans don’t come back, then there’s an argument to be made. Because in that instance, changes were vis-a-vis the management. At that point, especially if the Atlanta market produces a winner, the fans have no excuse for not being there.
Think about that, will ya? The team is well-run. The team drafts well. The team has a healthy budget. The team develops and re-signs its prospects with RFA contracts. And they win. If fans aren’t there, after all that, then I’d say Atlanta is a failing market. There’d be no excuses left.
Toby
May 12th, 2009
2:05 pm
Ti-Cat
Thing is…we have Potsma and Pavelec in the system, but because our management and coaching is so bad, we may never see them play on the Thrashers. Nobody up north, not Winnipeg, Quebec, or Hartford (I miss my beloved Whalers) would support a team that is so poorly run that they keep the same GM for the 9 seasons he couldn’t win a playoff game. Not one Canadian city would pay $$ during a recession for an ownership group who raises season ticket prices and then tells the fans to “deal with it”. Not one.
Toby
May 12th, 2009
2:10 pm
Fans down here have just had enough. I was there when we actually did make the playoffs…the place was packed and loud. I have zero doubt this city would support a competitive hockey franchise.
Hijacker
May 12th, 2009
2:11 pm
@Ti-Cat: Kovalchuk, Heatley, Bogosian, Kovy and Lehtonen were home run picks. Little was a another “easy” pick, despite being picked at #12. He fell because of his size. Let’s see if Postma reaches the NHL!
You “credit” the scouts with Pavelec, while you forget to mention something else. Those fools missed out on Kopitar, Setoguchi and Staal.
Dan Marr and Co. are at best medicore!
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
2:16 pm
Toby – the reason things happen up north is because the base is strong enough to demand it. While Toronto continually sucks while continually sells out games, there is enough of a fanbase that demands the change they get. What media is there in Atlanta to force the change the way there is in Toronto? Some diehard Canadians actually have a hard time in playing and coaching there because it is so intense. Why would the media cover it when there are only a handful of fans who will buy their reports on the team? Do you see the never ending cycle that you get in when trying to build a team in a market like Atlanta? Change gets forced in places like Ottawa, Buffalo, Minnesota (see Lemaire), Detroit because there are so many outlets demanding accountability. What accountability is there in Atlanta when in your greatest year you can’t make it off the back page of the sports section? Why can’t you make it off the back page? Because people down there would rather read about NASCAR. So you will never get the change you demand when the bulk of the sports fans are more interested in NASCAR.
The Joker
May 12th, 2009
2:19 pm
Ti-Cat – Go jump some barrels, a true Canadian sport.
Tony C.
May 12th, 2009
2:21 pm
So you’re saying that When the Nordiques had Lafleur in his twilight, and attendence was horrible it was because Canadian fans we “sticking with their team through thick&thin” right?
Tony C.
May 12th, 2009
2:22 pm
*were
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
2:22 pm
Joker – we’ll stop calling for your hockey teams if you stop calling for our NASCAR tracks. Wait a second we never built that many tracks because we don’t want that garbage interfering with real sports.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
2:26 pm
In 2005-06, the ownership greenlighted a max cap budget. Okay. That was it. In 2007, it “Eventually” got there, but didn’t start out near the cap limit. And it made “desperation-type” moves just to make the playoffs. But I digress. That 2005-06 roster was still very old, in average age. In other words, it wasn’t built to GO DEEP into the playoffs. It would have needed a whole lot of luck. Do I think it could have won one (1) playoff game, had it made it in? Answer: YES!!! I do. I think Atlanta would have won at least one (1) playoff game in 2006.
But what hadn’t changed … was erosion of confidence in Waddell’s GM prowess. So yes, the team was better, when it was at max cap. But it still wasn’t properly built. So those who doubted the management were still doubters even in the “good years.” What it takes … is BELIEEEF that the team is well-run. And that the ownership IS COMMITTED to winning. It doesn’t take ACTUAL WINS. The actual wins are byproduct of the intelligent design. Bad teams win 5 games in-a-row, in the NHL, despite what others would have you believe. Atlanta did it twice. The Islanders went 4-0-1 during a stretch last season. I haven’t looked at Colorado, but I’d wager they had an 8-1-1 stretch or a 5-game winning streak, at some point, during the 82-game schedule. They finished 28th.
There are markets in the NHL that weren’t particularly successful, but who nonetheless were being intelligently constructed over a period of time. Since making changes at the GM and/or Head Coaching positions, Columbus, Los Angeles, and Chicago are well on the rise now, after years of mismanagement. They may not win the Stanley Cup, but there’s reason to BELIEVE that things are headed in the right direction. Shoot, Chicago, who wasn’t necessarily picked to be a playoff team this year, is in the CF. Who knows how far they’ll go? But they took their time and were intelligently constructed. Fans had “faith” in the ownership. Had the Blackhawks missed the playoffs entirely, their fans would still have reason to believe that the next year will be better.
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
2:27 pm
Hamilton Jr. Red Wings, Hamilton FinCups (OHA-both teams failed), Hamilton Ti-Cats (playing in a high school stadium) – the list goes on and on in Hamilton, a true minor league city.
What about 20 years of Harold Ballard in Toronto? Now that’s accountability!
Ti-Cat – The Thrashers are here to stay and if you don’t like it
- T F B!
The Joker
May 12th, 2009
2:29 pm
Ti-Cat – Go brush the ice, curling, a real Canadian sport.
Toby
May 12th, 2009
2:32 pm
Ti-Cat
Unfortunately, the odd situation that is going with the worst ownership in all of sports (Al Davis comes in at #2) doesn’t seem to help the fact that everyone is screaming for a change. The fans as well as corporate sponsors are so sick of demanding change that this past year, the only way we can get them to take notice is to hit them in the wallet. I understand that Toronto is the exception to the “winning rule”, but no other northern city would support any team headed by the same ownership group and GM for all these years.
Alan
May 12th, 2009
2:35 pm
Either way, Atlanta is in the bottom 10 teams in the league in their best of years and the bottom 2-3 teams in their worst of years. That is not good.
It might not be good, but you’re missing something. Here, people don’t blindly follow their team just because the team is here. People here demand accountability. We demand, best or worst of times, for the team iced to at least play their part. Fact is, if you look at the 2007-2008 season, we had players who coasted through the season. Guys who went through the motions, but didn’t play with any sort of heart or intensity. By the end of the 2007-2008 season, we had maybe six guys with a “give a damn” level above zero.
We, as fans, noticed the “give a damn” level of our players.
Then, also consider the attitude of the ownership group. When confronted, Bruce Levenson basically told the season ticket holders that things will not change.
Attendance at our games have dropped because ownership’s interest has dropped… or just wasn’t there to begin with. Their interest in the fan base who helps pay their bills is nonexistent, or otherwise taken for granted.
You can’t just look at dwindling attendance numbers and say our market is unhealthy. Just like you couldn’t look at Boston’s attendance numbers and claim their market is unhealthy. Chicago. Detroit. Vancouver. Pittsburgh. All of those cities had to deal with one thing or another – some of which are dealing with the same problems we have with the Thrashers.
Try to understand our concerns with our team. Many of us love hockey, and love the Thrashers, win or lose. However, none of us are blindly willing to shell out top dollar for a sub-par product. As a computer technician, I do not spend my money on low quality parts in an effort to make a “quick fix.” As a result, I do not spend my money for the general manager of one of my favorite teams to go out and pick up cheap crap in free agency.
But hey, at least Waddell didn’t sign Jeff Finger to a 4yr $3.5m contract. That’s what I call “incremental progress!”
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
2:39 pm
Hijacker… we got Pavelec by trading down in that draft and passing on Kopitar, Setoguchi and Staal… I too wish we had taken one of the three in hindsight, but we got Bourret, Pavelec, Denny and Stoesz… if Bourret wasn’t a butterball, that might have been an excellent draft class when you add Kozek (late 2nd), Lavallee (4th Round) and Zubarev (7th Round) to the equation.
http://thrashers.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=329158&page=NewsPage&service=page#draftboard
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
2:40 pm
Again Toby – why would your ownership feel the need to make a change when they got such low support when the thrashers were winning a division title? The city has not taken to them when they were the SE champions. Buffalo and Pittsburgh both went through horrible owners this decade but because they are in good markets someone was able to come in turn things around (Golisano & Lemieux). Who would want to own an NHL team in Atlanta? Your team was doing bad at the gate when you had Ted Turner as an owner and rookies named Ilya and Dany.
Stupid Waddell
May 12th, 2009
2:43 pm
Bob’s post at 9:20am is Excellent. Spot on, and to the point, EXACTLY.
You figured me out, young grasshopper. Shux.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
2:45 pm
Toby’s exactly right, here. Try to explain this team to someone NOT in Atlanta? I’m sure they think we’re a collective bunch of bozos. The way I see it, unfortunately, the ownership is a group of businessmen. But they’re businesmen who are passionate about basketball. The hockey team may as well be volleyball, shuffleboard, or swimming.
And they’ve got it down. Let’s say… that the Thrashers were ACTUALLY a SWIM TEAM. Ready? Here’s what they’d say. “Yeah, for sure, we’re trying real hard to field a competitive team. Our GM has told us that we need a new Diver, and we’ll get one at the Lottery Draft. Additionally, we’ve targeted somone in free agency to do the “100 Butterfly” and the “50 Butterfly.” We’re also expecting that the Butterfly Free Agent we’ll sign will handle the IM Medley relays, as well.”
See?? See how it works? They don’t care. And they don’t know. They rely on a GM. And give the GM a league minimum payroll go try to land the Butterfly Free Agent specialist, who’ll wind up signing in Chicago, for less total contractual, guaranteed money.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
2:46 pm
Alan – do you really think people in those other cities don’t claim accountability and just support their team because it is there? Wrong. They demand it and things change there because of other things such as media pressure (since they aren’t spending most of their time on college recruiting). I will say the same thing to you as I did to Toby: your team was doing bad at the gate when you had Ted Turner as an owner and rookies named Ilya and Dany.
Toby
May 12th, 2009
2:47 pm
Buffalo and Pittsburgh were both in huge trouble before the lockout. Pittsburgh was all but signed and sealed to KC (with free rent!). Here is a quote from Bettman in an article about Phoenix’s problems basically stating that most of your northern teams had to be saved by the NHL within the last 10 years…
“We generally try to avoid relocating franchises unless you absolutely have to,” he said. “We think when a franchise is in trouble, you try and fix the problems. That’s what we did in Pittsburgh and Ottawa and Buffalo prior to our work stoppage. That’s what we did when the perception was that five out of the six Canadian franchises around the turn of the century were in trouble. We fixed the problems. We don’t run out on cities.”
Hmmmmm……this doesn’t sound like those teams were doing so hot….
NASCAR Dave
May 12th, 2009
2:47 pm
TI-CAT – Wanna FIGHT, WIMP???
NUFF SAID.
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
2:53 pm
Alan… yeah, what a turd Cliff Fletcher put together up there in Toronto… all those great players like Grabolinskyoskypovich and Toskavinsonaberle that Canadians love.
Burke will look like the Pope for trading someone like Grabovski and Ponikarovski for Dustin Penner… sign the Sedin Twins and he’ll have his own holiday.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
2:57 pm
Toby – the only reason Buffalo was having any problems was because the owner of the team also owned Adelphia Cable which if you remember got caught in an Enron type accounting scandal and went under. The fact that he also owned the Sabres were the reason they almost went down to. Their trouble had nothing to do with the city, the fans, the support, the market. They had a 1-2 year period and then got out of it. And they were doing well BEFORE the trouble began. At what point could you say Atlanta was doing well? Certainly not when billionaire Ted & Jane owned the team. Atlanta never did well they have always been at the bottom of the league.
NASCAR Dave – that’s funny because your name is the epitome of why hockey won’t do well in Atlanta. Thanks for making my argument for me.
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
2:57 pm
Let’s face it Ti-Pussy, your beat.
Eileen
May 12th, 2009
3:00 pm
Go Caps and Carolina! The “lowly” Southeast division is sure shining during these games. This is great hockey. Congrats also to Chicago. It is amazing how a team can turn around in just a couple of years.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
3:01 pm
I think there’s a natural ebb and flow to teams. A few years ago, I read an article in the Detroit paper about how Red Wing games weren’t being attended well enough. And the article said something like, “because ‘nose-bleed seats’ are $90. And no one will pay it.”
Unless my recollection of that article is faulty, even the mighty Red Wings aren’t ammune to low attendance figures, in any given game. And last time I checked, every years since 1993, the Detroit Red Wings have been a Cup contender. They are, truly, the exception the rule of “ebb and flow, peaks and valleys” of NHL existence.
Alan
May 12th, 2009
3:03 pm
do you really think people in those other cities don’t claim accountability and just support their team because it is there? Wrong. They demand it and things change there because of other things such as media pressure
Indeed. The lack of fans attending games in the eras where their teams sucked was the point of mentioning those cities! Do you honestly think the ownership didn’t take notice when, say, Ottawa was only drawing an average of 10k fans? Or when the AHL Wolves were out-drawing the NHL-Blackhawks at the gate? Don’t be disingenuous!
Secondly, you also mention media pressure. The lack of fans in conjunction with media pressure helped. Alas, that’s one thing we don’t have here. Therefore, we have to do other things to get the point across. The media here are non-confrontational pansies, so we have to take control and demand accountability in other ways. Simply not showing up helped get the point across to our ownership. Then, those of us still attending did other things to actually display our displeasure.
Now, once more, attendance during bad years doesn’t mean jack squat when it comes to how viable a market is. We haven’t had many good seasons (two of them, actually), so there’s no way to judge the market when there is a consistently good on-ice product. Especially when one of those two good seasons was the first one after the lockout. A lockout which disenchanted many fans both north and south of the Canadian border.
Hockey can and will survive here. If you’re unwilling to give it that opportunity, that’s your prerogative; however, thankfully, you’re not the commissioner or a member of the board of governors.
Toby
May 12th, 2009
3:08 pm
Huh…in 2003, when Bettman seems to be referring to, Buffalo averaged under 14k. Years from now, you can argue attendance is low in Atlanta because of an ownership group who is too busy sueing eachother to run a hockey franchise, so they hired and kept an awful GM.
Doesn’t really matter though…the quote mentions many other northern teams which had to be saved by the NHL.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
3:11 pm
“The media here are non-confrontational pansies, so we have to take control and demand accountability in other ways.”
Alan – that’s because they know only a tiny percentage of their readers actually care about hockey. So they won’t bother to cover it. Are they pansies about the Georgia college football team? Or how about when one of your writers is on tv talking about Michael Vick? They don’t seem to be non-confrontational about other sports. It’s because people in Atlanta care about those sports but they don’t care about hockey. Put the NHL team in a city where people care about it. How are the tv ratings for thrashers games versus other cities?
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
3:12 pm
Toby – I will say this one more time. Your team had poor support when Ted Turner owned it and you had sensational rookies named Ilya and Dany on the team. Stop blaming ownership since you didn’t support Ted & Jane.
The Joker
May 12th, 2009
3:14 pm
Yep, the hosers demand accountability, that’s why Bob Gainey is still the GM of the snowfarmimg frogs.
Yep, hockey is only a Canadian sport, that’s why the Leafs procured a Canadian GM, Brian Burke, OOPS he’s from the U.S.A.
Ti-Cat – Go study for finals.
Toby
May 12th, 2009
3:19 pm
Ti-Cat
Quote from Alan:
“Indeed. The lack of fans attending games in the eras where their teams sucked was the point of mentioning those cities! Do you honestly think the ownership didn’t take notice when, say, Ottawa was only drawing an average of 10k fans? Or when the AHL Wolves were out-drawing the NHL-Blackhawks at the gate? Don’t be disingenuous!”
This.
Eileen
May 12th, 2009
3:19 pm
After reading through the comments again, I have to wonder who why anyone cares about Ti-cat thinks. Another bozo who does not know a thing about Atlanta.
Alan
May 12th, 2009
3:24 pm
They don’t seem to be non-confrontational about other sports. It’s because people in Atlanta care about those sports but they don’t care about hockey.
Do you even live here? Don’t answer. I already know you don’t. How? Let’s just call it a hunch.
Meanwhile, it appears you really enjoy games. I’ve got a neat game for you to play. However, something tells me it’s a game you’ve been playing with us all day long.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
3:29 pm
Joker – Brian Burke was born in the north. Perhaps you didn’t pick up on the debates over cities like Boston, Buffalo, Pittsburgh. Hockey belongs up there.
Toby – Let me say this one more time. See those other teams have periods in their history where they showed great support for their teams. While it is true that Ottawa had a couple bad years it is also true that this year they didn’t make the playoffs but were 7 out of 30 in league attendance. There is no period in Atlanta history where they were not in the bottom 10 teams in the league and that includes when they had solid ownership. Your attendance is low and I imagine your tv ratings are pitiful. You have no coverage of your team because no one wants to read about them in your town. For the last time, Atlanta has never had a period of solid fan support even when it was under solid ownership.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
3:35 pm
Alan – I’m sorry, I’ve offended you. I won’t point out the obvious anymore that your city is not a hockey town and doesn’t support your team. Forgive me if I stated the obvious that they would receive more support in a northern hockey market. I will try to refrain from posting things like attendance figures or tv ratings to demonstrate what a poor hockey market Atlanta really is. Have fun at the NASCAR track.
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
3:40 pm
Eileen-good call!
Thanks for giving us a break from all this Thrash to Hamilton hooey.
Toby
May 12th, 2009
3:41 pm
Ti-Cat
There has been times when Atlanta supported this team. When then can put a competitive team on the ice. Here is a quote from Craig Custance of the Sporting News that sums up what everyone is saying here…..
“Anyways, this story is a rite of passage for Thrashers beat writers. We all had to deal with stories about the Thrashers leaving. But having lived down there, I know hockey can work in Atlanta. I covered the only two home playoff games in franchise history and, honestly, Philips Arena was one of the loudest playoff venues I’ve ever been in. The atmosphere is great. They just need to win , that market won’t support a loser, but really, not many will. I also know the league is very interested in keeping the Thrashers in Atlanta. And there are a ton of transplanted hockey fans down there. That’s my long way of saying, don’t bet on the Thrashers going anywhere.”
Again….we need a competitive product and fans will have no problem spending $$ or time to see a hockey game.
Hijacker
May 12th, 2009
3:41 pm
@GaVaHokie: It’s not hindsight, if you are following the draft all season long. Kopitar was THE top prospect out of Europe, since the start of the 2004-05 season. He would have been a Top5 selection, if he were a Swede or Finn*!!! What really ticks me off is that Waddell scouted him, when his was still in his native Slovenia (he was drafted out of the Swedish Elite League.) Don was impressed with him and figured that he could be an impact player in the league. Only one other NHL team scouted him in Slovenia. You can take a wild guess. (L.A.)
Waddell made this and countless of other crappy decision at the draft and got away with them (e.g. Valabik, Slater, Leveille…just to name a few.) You had little reaction from the fans. That’s the problem with playing in Southern market. Oilers fans grilled Kevin Lower for wasting away 1st rounders on Plante and Nash in 2007.
BTW, LaVallee was a 04 draftee (not 05.);)
*= Riseborough, MacLean, Waddell and Muckler were proven wrong by Kopitar. –> Sidenote: do you see a pattern here? Everybody but Waddell is out of his job by now.
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
3:41 pm
Well, I’ll lay it on the table… Last time I checked, the average audience on SportsSouth for Thrashers hockey was like 1,200 viewers per game.
Tony C.
May 12th, 2009
3:42 pm
wAAAAAAAAh!
Waaaaah!
Waaaah!
I’m tired of driving two hours to go see an NHL game!
Waaaaaaaah!
Waaaah!
ANyway, I”d like to thank Ti-Cat for driving up Mr. T.’s blog-hits.
P.S.
The second-best player in the league is also Russian.
Tony C.
May 12th, 2009
3:45 pm
Exactly, and who signs Waddell’s checks?
Sure as hell ain’t any Thrashers fan I know of.
The blame for this club’s woes lie squarely at the feet of Don Waddell and The Gang That Couldn’t Sue Straight
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
3:51 pm
Hijacker… oh, I remember it like it was yesterday… they questioned Kopitar because he wasn’t from a hockey-haven.
Someone at the draft table had to have spoken up and said, “Bourret is a Hartley kind of player. I think we can trade down, get a few later picks and get the guy most suited for our system”… maybe even Hartley himself. That’s where a team made a pick based on necessity more than best available player.
That was certainly one of the more baffling moments… I still have the vision of Waddell and Hartley sitting at the table laughing every time they moved down… definitely a WTF moment.
Alan
May 12th, 2009
3:52 pm
Offended me? Doubtful. A witless troll from a dead steel town where the populace can’t even support their AHL team doesn’t offend me. Yeah, I said it. The ECHL Gwinnett Gladiators out-drew the AHL Hamilton Bulldogs. Imagine that. A suburban Atlanta AA minor league team out-drew a AAA minor league team in an “underserved market” in Southern Ontario.
Say, does that mean, by your own standards, that Atlanta is a better hockey market than Hamilton? Fans actually supported the Gladiators, based on your own reasoning!
I understand there’s nothing to do in a dead steel town like Hamilton, but you should really go find something else to do. Just whatever you do, don’t step on anything rusty. Tetanus shots are pretty painful, from what I understand.
To sum this up another way: Begone, foul troll.
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
3:55 pm
Hijacker… Lavallee was in 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_nhl_draft#Round_four
http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=4665
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
3:59 pm
Yes Eileen – Carolina is doing well with those good Canadian boys like Brind’amour, Staal, Whitney, Ward, Eaves, Boychuk, etc. And don’t forget the American boys that come from states like Minnesota (Cullen), Illinois (Corvo), and New York (Cole).
GaVaHokie – I went and looked up your 08-09 Nielsen ratings (at mid-season). You had a .23 which was 3rd worst in the league, only better than the Islanders (which probably compete with the Rangers too much in down years) and the Fla Panthers. The only other teams under a 1 were Anaheim, Dallas, Los Angeles, New Jersey, Phoenix and Tampa Bay. I am not sure why Dallas would be so low (New Jersey gets horrible support and couldn’t even hold a ticker tape parade when they won the cup) but clearly you can see a trend among the lower teams in the league.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
4:03 pm
GaVaHokie – just for the flip side, the top 6 teams in the league (we are only looking at US ratings because Canadian games have too many national broadcasts to compare) are Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Minnesota, Philadelphia and Boston.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
4:07 pm
Ignore me, I’m an annoying moron.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
4:08 pm
Ya know, when Billionaire Ted owned the team, he did absolutely NOTHING SPECTACULAR with the Thrashers. He didn’t make any kind of big splashes in free agency. He didn’t hog the spotlight. I can’t recall a press conference of his, about the Thrashers, other than the one that announced that Atlanta was getting an NHL team. I can’t even recall Turner putting forth a “timeline” for winning a Cup or even making the playoffs. Which are all things that he did do when he owned the Braves.
Honestly, the only Ted Turner quote I ever remembered from his brief time as owner, was this one: “When you come up with $99 million to buy the team, then YOU can name it.” Gee, that was GREAT PR!
Many fans “questioned” naming the hockey team after a harmless, little brown bird. Might as well have been a sparrow. But the brown Thrasher is the Georgia State bird. Hence, the name. Although, we try to convince people it’s because we “thrash” opponents. As in, to shake them forcefully.
Moving right along … in 2000, Dany Heatley was playing in Wisconsin, I believe. Busy winning a national title or playing for one. Heatley wouldn’t join the Thrashers, as a rookie, until the 2001-02 season. That’s when Ilya showed up, as well. As a “rookie.” Read: Unproven player. Some rookies are amazing. But most take time to develop. Even rookies spawned of the lottery draft.
In the 1999-2002 era, it was all about watching the players leave that should have been kept. (Audette, Brunette, Staios, Slegr, etc.) It screamed of poor management, exacerbated by ownership’s unwillingness to increase the budget for player retention. What “good” was Ted Turner, when he wouldn’t spend the money to make the team better?
I love rookies. I think they’re fun to watch. But I don’t count on them to be saviors in their debut season. It’s about mismanagement of the roster. That’s what kept fans away. Much moreso than any losses. It was, “What in the heck is goin’ on, here? We’re losing players that need to be kept, as we supplement via the lottery draft.” It was “zero sum economics.” In this regard, those who hate Waddell must step back to look at his budget. He wasn’t empowered very much, for player retention. That still doesn’t absolve him from accountability, since he did have two 1st overall and two 2nd overall picks in that era from which to build the team. Theoretically, Kovalchuk and Lehtonen can be lost to free agency in 2010. Again, this speaks to “howwwww” the team is run. Simply put, it must be run better than it is. But no changes are coming. Not even Waddell is being shown the door. Which would be a fairly fundamental change. This is what keeps fans away. It speaks to “intent.”
Hijacker
May 12th, 2009
4:10 pm
GaVaHokie, Ouch….that’s normally not my style. I’ll stand corrected.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
4:13 pm
“Say, does that mean, by your own standards, that Atlanta is a better hockey market than Hamilton?”
Alan – I completely agree with you. Atlanta is far more deserving of a minor league team. Too bad you don’t support an NHL team like you support a minor league club.
R. Stroz
May 12th, 2009
4:13 pm
Don’t feed the troll.
Rawhide posted an excellent article and this yahoo is just changing the focus. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s none other than an ASG plant.
Return to the subject at hand, hockey history in Atlanta and how the ASG has turned its back on former Flames, living in Atlanta, that could help promote the team.
Besides the Thrashers could use a real goalie coach, and the best Flames goalie, Dan Bouchard, actually lives in Marietta and coaches at Life College.
Toby
May 12th, 2009
4:16 pm
Ti-Cat
Another good Alan quote:
“The ECHL Gwinnett Gladiators out-drew the AHL Hamilton Bulldogs. Imagine that. A suburban Atlanta AA minor league team out-drew a AAA minor league team in an “underserved market” in Southern Ontario.”
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
4:16 pm
Hijacker… no worries… I think somewhere I saw 2004 as well, so I believed you for a second.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
4:18 pm
I’m the family flower, otherwise known as the blooming idiot.
Toby
May 12th, 2009
4:19 pm
If Hamilton can’t draw at an AHL level, hockey can’t survive there at all. Wikipedia says the 2006 population there was 504,559?!?!? HA! Not a chance.
Atlanta sports fan
May 12th, 2009
4:21 pm
GO FLAMES! I mean it. Go. We can’t support hockey down here. You will do much better in Canada. Go Flames go. Leave. Now. Go.
Smoothie
May 12th, 2009
4:22 pm
@ Tri-Cat:
Dude, we get your point of view so stop beating a dead-horse. The arguments you make are moot because Hamilton at best can support one franchise (hockey or otherwise) AT BEST. Atlanta has a metro population of over 5 million AND A MYRIAD of entertainment options other than hockey.
Not to mention we have an urban population consisting of a large percentage of minorities including one of the largest (percentage-wise) populations of African-Americans in North America. Last time I checked though, the Thrashers have yet to tap into the potential of new fans from the minority populations of this city. However, even when the Thrashers were experiencing a down year, I can honestly say that I saw more black folks attending games this spring than I can ever recall in the other 4 years I’ve been going to games.
The Thrashers don’t have a “hockey interest” problem, they have a marketing and PR problem the size of Hamilton, Ontario. Should that ever get fixed and our mgmnt finally pulls their collective head out of their arse, you may be quite surprised at the attendance numbers coming out of Philips when we start turning this thing around next season.
We may only be another Ilja, a top-flight RW and a healthy groin away from returning to the playoffs next season. So ruminate on that why don’t you? Or simply return to the hole from which you climbed out next to the deserted steel mill down the street. The library wants you off their computer and off the premises NOW!!
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
4:24 pm
Brendan… you hearken a little to the point I was trying to make earlier… Ted I think had the mindset that he could put a hockey team in Atlanta and fill the arena with fans of the other team… that would be his style.
$11 million in salaries during a no salary cap era… it was like watching the Globetrotters versus the Generals.
Even Waddell himself said he “can’t wait to write a book about all of this”.
Still, I agree that it’s no excuse… and there are plenty of them… and I can understand people wanting to see someone else take a stab at it. So be it… I’ll support it. But I really am curious to see what happens with this team if the right pieces are added this summer.
I’m not ready to see someone like Pat Quinn come in at this very moment and blow it up.
Atlanta sports fan
May 12th, 2009
4:28 pm
Toby – the team would be best served in my mind playing right in the ACC with the Maple Leafs. Hamilton is only right around the corner from Toronto. If it is in Hamilton it will draw upon all of the surrounding areas. Put it this way, I saw a baseball game of the Gwinnette Braves coming up. Should Lawrenceville, GA population 28 thousand have a AAA ballteam? Or do they pull on cities from all of Gwinette County and even other surrounding counties?
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
4:32 pm
Smoothie – It’s not just the Hamilton area that would support the team, but much of Southern Ontario. And if you have a MYRIAD of other things to do and minorities, whatever. That’s just more reasons to get an NHL team out of Atlanta.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
4:34 pm
I can completely agree with you there, Hokie. Ted wasn’t a hockey enthusiast. I think he saw an investment opportunity. Not visions of a big silver trophy at center ice. $11 million? I shudder to think that was correct. In 2001-2002, teams like the Rangers, Capitals and Flyers had budgets in excess of $75 million. One had a budget of $88 million! Shoot, give me an $88 million budget, and even I could field a pretty good team.
I’m not a big fan of Pat Quinn coming in here. Although, I am encouraged by what I saw in January, when Quin led the Canadians to a World Juniors Championship. It does speak to his ability to handle young players. But I digress. I want to read Waddell’s book. I’ve ALWAYS said, “I’d love to hear Waddell’s side of things.”
And then, I’d like to ask him WHY ON EARTH he stayed, if things were so Gawd aweful? Is he like Lt. John Dunbar, in “Dances with Wolves,” in that Fort Segewick is the best outpost there is, so long as he gets to run it? I don’t know. Something drives Waddell to get up every day.
The Joker
May 12th, 2009
4:40 pm
Hamilton’s population: 504,559.
Pam Anderson has done more Canadians than that.
Go support your minor league hockey team before someone moves them to Birmingham, Alabama due to low attendence.
LAC
May 12th, 2009
4:42 pm
This Stupid-cat is yet another example of a loser who thinks hockey should be played in only ONE country…
He does not look at all the EMPTY seats at New Jersey games or NYI games and so on, he can only pick on Atlanta, not Florida or Tampa,
How about Carolina, more NASCAR, which I thinks SUCKS BTW, there than anywhere close to Atlanta… Why not them move ???
Guess it just show how whiny little crybabies are, go form the canada hockey league and leave the REAL hockey to be played here in the USA,The Greatest Country on Earth!!!!
Like I said before I think Montreal needs to move to Memphis, get out of that minor league city they are in once and for all !!!!!
Then don cherry could get drunk on real whiskey !
Toby
May 12th, 2009
4:45 pm
If Hamilton and Southern Hamilton (or whatever…not many have heard of the city anyway…) doesn’t show for the Bulldogs and has the population of an Atlanta area COUNTY…Hockey won’t survive there.
Smoothie
May 12th, 2009
4:46 pm
“Smoothie – It’s not just the Hamilton area that would support the team, but much of Southern Ontario. And if you have a MYRIAD of other things to do and minorities, whatever. That’s just more reasons to get an NHL team out of Atlanta.”
That’s a real cogent and logically sound argument you make: “Since you have so much to do, then whatever.” What are you?! 9 years old?!
Sure, Ontario may be able to support another franchise, I never said that they couldn’t. But don’t come on here and say that we can do better because we’re Canadian by golly and y’all have plenty to do down there in Atlanta so we should have your team. The business of sports doesn’t work that way. And it is no given that you will automatically do better than the Thrashers because YOU DON’T KNOW THAT! You can’t possibly know how the market will react after the initial excitement wears off. If hockey is so damn viable in Canada, then explain to me why Canada doesn’t have more than 6 teams??
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
4:49 pm
LAC you need to read my post here: http://blogs.ajc.com/iceman-thrashers-blog/2009/05/11/atlantas-hockey-history-is-still-aflame-pt-i/#comment-3182
I have no problem with hockey in Dallas. They support it well and are behind the sport down there. If Atlanta can do what the Dallas fans do then you wouldn’t have people like me saying things like this. Or you can just keep name-calling.
Alan
May 12th, 2009
4:50 pm
And if you have a MYRIAD of other things to do and minorities, whatever. That’s just more reasons to get an NHL team out of Atlanta.
Can’t support your AHL team.
Can’t support your CFL team.
You’ve got tons of junior hockey programs in the area, and based on the lack of support for the AHL and CFL, I doubt you support those programs either (hey, if you can jump to conclusions, so can I).
So, what makes you think you can support a NHL franchise?
So you want to punish the Atlanta market for having a myriad of entertainment options, do you? Say, let’s also punish Chicago. They’ve got a myriad of other entertainment options. We can move them to Quebec. NY Islanders can move to Winnipeg, since the folks on Long Island can go do other things too. The NY Rangers can go to Moose Jaw, since there’s literally tons of things to do in NYC. The Devils can go to Red Deer — they can be natural rivals of Edmonton and Calgary, since the city is right between the two.
Nope, I’m not stopping. We’re going to move all the teams that are in locations where there are a ton of entertainment options! Los Angeles to St. John! Anaheim to Kamloops! Miami to Whitehorse! Colorado to Moncton! Toronto to Yellowknife!
Does this make you feel better?
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
4:50 pm
Hamilton is not a major league city. It is a toilet with a postal code.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
4:53 pm
I should really stick my head in the tiolet because I’m a sh!thead.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
4:58 pm
“Hamilton is not a major league city. It is a toilet with a postal code.”
I see that you can’t accept the facts and have turned to name calling and other attacks. The enlightened of Atlanta sure are teaching me. Now that some of you have gotten your comments out of the way why don’t you go buy some tickets to the Thrashers before other northerners come on here wondering when they will steal your team. If you think you can support a team why don’t you go do just that. Or is it easier to yell and name call under an anonymous name while you sit at home instead of going to a Thrashers game?
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
5:07 pm
We just think it is a bit arrogant to have people tell us we don’t deserve to have a team. Ya’ll outta mind your own business.
Get an expansion team and pay the price of building like we did.
And Hamilton is a toilet with a postal code.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
5:12 pm
My mommy kicked me out of the house and I have nothing else to do until the library closes. There’s nothing else to do in this town.
Thrashers27
May 12th, 2009
5:18 pm
For the love!…Ti-Cat, don’t you have anything better to do than annoy hockey fans? Seriously!?!
There used to be this douche from Detroit (P&S) that would come in here and talk smack and you remind me a bit of him. We’re all true hockey fans here. We love the game!
You don’t live in Atlanta, you’re not a fan of the Thrashers. Why do you care? Why are you wasting your time with us?
Usually, I ignore people like you, but I’m just tired of reading your crap. Sure, it’s a free world, but we’re not here to debate with you whether, or not there should be a hockey team in Atlanta. The fact of the matter is that there is a hockey team here and there are throngs of us who love it.
You have probably never been to Atlanta and have no idea, but we have had seasons where Philips Arena was electric and full of fans in BLUE. So, we had a bit of a downturn over the last couple of years. The die-hard fans are still there and further more it has nothing to do with you. We’re a ten year old team that has had troubles beyond our control and some that were within our control, but I guaranfreakintee you that there will be playoffs in Atlanta next year and that philips will be packed to the gills.
To sum up: Atlanta has a hockey team and great fans. That’s a scenario that has nothing to do with you. Go pay attention to something that does concern you.
Eileen
May 12th, 2009
6:13 pm
Please excuse my poorly constructed comment earlier. I forgot to proof read. However, the thought remains. Atlanta deserves hockey as much as any other city. I keep thinking of Kovy’s remarks. He said the fans in Atlanta deserve a WINNING team. He would like to be a part of the solution. Let’s hope the summer brings some positive news for the Atanta fans.
Tony C.
May 12th, 2009
6:14 pm
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Eileen
May 12th, 2009
6:20 pm
Tri cat, I can’t believe I am responding to you, but your comment is really strange. Canadien boys, Northern boys. Please. . The world is changing. Do you also take credit for Russian boys? There will be a lot of “southern” boys in the next decade or two entering the league. We are a city full of young boys AND girls who play hockey. May you find peace as well as have your Hamilton team some day. Leave the Thrashers and their fans to enjoy their “Southern” hockey.
Alan
May 12th, 2009
6:27 pm
Leave the Thrashers and their fans to enjoy their “Southern” hockey.
Amen to that!
Switching gears a bit, Sports Illustrated has ranked the top- and bottom five ownerships in the NHL. Guess where our octo-cluster of fail landed?
Hijacker
May 12th, 2009
6:44 pm
Higher than I expected Alan.
FUBAS
May 12th, 2009
6:46 pm
We’re moving in the right direction.
LAC
May 12th, 2009
7:35 pm
Well this tri-cat thing must live a very very dull non-existant life.
To go onto a blog of a team he dislike, not so much the team, but Southerners, shows he is more of a RACIST than anything else.
Let’s see tri-cat, how many fortune 100 companies have heir HQ’s in Atlanta VS Hamilton ? Wanta guess ? Have you ever been here other than in your pea size brain ?
Why should itbe OUR team you complain about ?
Just what the HELL IS your problem ? We don’t give a DAMN what some small time canada hockey fan, as your comments & thoughts are WORTHLESS.
I’v been to Hamilton several times and it STINKS PERIOD as a city !
It’s dirty, people are NOT friendly, traffic is worse than a nightmere
and there is NOTHING to do in that town….
Why don’t you get Edmonton to move there ? Or try for Buffalo or New Jersey, How about Carolina, they are in the south right ?
No tri-cat just go away nobody here gives a DAMN about anything YOU
have to spew out !
Glovesave29
May 12th, 2009
7:44 pm
So if we use the logic that you can only play hockey up north where it is cold, do we take back baseball and football, where it should be played in the nice warm sunshine. Which we have – 10 months out of the year. Which is why everyone moves here and not the other way around. you don’t here us crying about the travesty that is the 3 down CFL.
This is all just so silly. I seem to recall those glory day’s in the 1970’s where the Wings and Leafs played bad hockey before empty home arenas. If the product is bad, people have every right to stay home. You had Ballard, we have the ASG.
As for the Atlanta sports media – they let EVERYONE off the hook. It’s not just easy on hockey…the Jackets,Bulldogs, Falcons and Braves get off easy too in the AJC. Atlanta is just a more laid back place.
Oh, and last time I checked, they make the ice exactly the same here at Philips as they do at MLG. It’s not as if we are the only team not playing on some frozen lake in northern Yukon.
LAC
May 12th, 2009
8:00 pm
NEWS FLASH !!!!!!
Billionaire Warren Buffett is considering buying the Montreal Canadians
and moving them to The Sprint Center in Kansas City, a source at
Berkshire-Hathaway said this afternoon.
Quoted as saying, “The Montreal team would compliment my Kansas City holdings, in light of my Nebraska Furniture Mart and many other business ventures there, It would be the cornerstone of The Power & Light district and a solid sports addition to the Kansas City area.”
KSHB, NBC 41, reports Montreal could be sold to Buffett by season’s end and moved to KC. Likeone reporter noted, red jersey’s would match
The Chief’s red as well !
Look for more info on the possible sale of Montreal hockey club to Warren Buffett in coming days !!!!!
This is POSITIVE NEWS !
World Be Free
May 12th, 2009
8:01 pm
Go Thrashers, sign Marty, draft a star and upgrade our lineup with veteran talent. Thanks to Kovy for challenging management to get off their best intentions.
When driving to Toronto, I remember my Dad saying “Here comes Hamilton kids, close the windows and breathe through your mouth”
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
9:06 pm
Anybody else noticing how the Hurricanes are BLOWING IT. It’s 4-1, Boston, in the middle of the 3rd period. What duh?? This thing’s goin’ seven games, barring a miracle. There’s still 13:00 left. But, c’mon.
I can’t believe Carolina has let this happen. And the most “clutch” goal of this game … was scored by Marc Savard.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
9:07 pm
Score!! Carolina!! Samsonov!! 4-2. This could get interesting!!
Rawhide
May 12th, 2009
9:19 pm
Marc Savard…boy, I sure wish the Thrashers had a player like him. I’m sure if Don Waddell was lucky enough to land a player like Savard, he would never let him go.
World Be Free
May 12th, 2009
9:25 pm
LAC-good one
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
9:49 pm
As we all know, maybe Don Waddell’s biggest coup was getting Marc Savard, who had simply fallen out of favor in Calgary, essentially for the rights to a player (Ruslan Zainullin) who never set foot in the NHL. During the 2005-06 season, many bloggers screamed, “Re-sign him! Re-sign him, now!” Waddell’s response was “The team doesn’t negotiate contracts during the season.” As the trade deadline approached, John Kincade, in CNN Center, asked Waddell, point-blank, “how are the negotiations going with Savard?” Waddell’s answer was to obfuscate that Savard was far too essential to deal at the deadline, in terms of the Thrashers playoff aspirations. Uhhh, what did that have to do with “contract negotiations?” I don’t know. I have no idea. Waddell never answered the question. Maybe there were NO NEGOTIATIONS. Maybe Savard’s agent flat out told Waddell, “we’re commited to leaving in the 2006 offseason.” I have no idea. In any event, many Thrashers fans felt retaining Savard was the most important thing, in terms of making the playoffs. Truthfully, the team only came up 2-points short of that playoff berth.
Florida went through the same situation with D-man Jay Bouwmeester this season. They didn’t trade Bouwmeester and wound up with an identical record to Montreal. Montreal made the playoffs in 8th spot, as they had a better “head-to-head” record with Florida, I believe. So, the Panthers gambled and lost. The Thrashers gambled and lost with Savard.
Will Jay Bouwmeester re-sign with Florida? I guess it’s not entirely out of the question. But I suspect that Jay wants to go to Western Canada, where he was born. Was Marc Savard sure he was leaving Atlanta? Maybe. Possibly. I can’t say. All I can say is … Waddell should have turned up the heat on the contract during training camp in September 2005. He probably could have gotten a good deal on Savard. But there was PROCRASTINATION, like ALWAYS. The price of Savard’s contract just kept escalating. Probably to the very point where Atlanta couldn’t afford to re-sign him. That’s a shame. Savard has remained atop the leader board for assists through all his years in Boston. At $5 million-a-year, he’s considerated a “steal.” But who KNEW that Cap would go from $39 million to $56.7 million in the 1st three years of the new CBA? Waddell amended his in-season negotiations “policy” for Marian Hossa, citing it as a “special case.”
Segue to Kovalchuk. Tick, tock. Tick, tock. If the Thrashers can’t get a deal in place by July 15, do they really want to go through another “Hossa-like” season? With that DARK CLOUD of uncertainty hanging over the team. And then there’s Kari, too. Kari will be unrestricted in 2010, just like Kovy. And just like Kozlov, as well. All three hit the open market if not re-signed before noon, on July 1, 2010. If anyone thinks there aren’t CONSEQUENCES for INACTION, they are WRONG. Inaction can be just as devastating as any action can be.
Glovesave29
May 12th, 2009
10:13 pm
Brendan – Savard loved it here. Still would return. He left because ol’ DW referred to him as a “locker room cancer”.
Don Waddell
May 12th, 2009
11:04 pm
I’m going to ruin hockey in Atlanta, that’s my real five year plan.
Each year attendance is lower and the fan base is further alienated, that’s incremental progress.
I’m moving in the right direction.
Hockey Biltong
May 13th, 2009
12:24 am
Best playoff hockey I’ve seen in years!!!! Really well matched, with suprises as well. Go Ducks, and welcome the Kansas City Canadiens to the league!!!
stendec
May 13th, 2009
12:47 am
I see Maryann Hosebag was the third man in during a brawl at the conclusion of yet another Dead Wing loss. Par for the course for this spineless quitter. Worthless oxygen waste. Hope one of the Mallards sends him to emergency room in game seven. Miserable back jumping piece of shet! GO ANAHEIM! BTW – Excellent article. Superb actually. Will always love the Flames and Knights. Will always revile the Thrashers! Good night my friend.
R. Stroz
May 13th, 2009
12:50 am
Ole Time Hockey, put a stick on um and let’um know you’re there. Punch’um in the face and let’um know you’re there.
The Ducks v Red Wings series reminds me of 1970’s games between the Flames and Flyers.
R. Stroz
May 13th, 2009
12:53 am
stendec – You’re up fairly late for an old man. Go get’um you old geezer.
scottbravesfan
May 13th, 2009
3:21 am
Vahokie,
The Milwaukee Brewers actually do have throw back games where they were Braves uniforms. They did it back in 2004 and 2005 and it was hard as hell to watch the game because you naturally root for the guy in the Braves uniform and then realize he is actually a Brewer. It was strange and Skip and Pete had a field day with it.
Although the Brewers haven’t done that the last couple of years now that they have actually been good.
Tri-Ace,
Man this is America your hockey team has to be good if it’s going to get support. I don’t care if it’s in Atlanta or New York. The Islanders and Devils don’t draw flies when they suck. The Chicago Blackhawks’s brand new arena was empty for close to a decade because they were such a terrible team. The Boston Bruins still couldn’t sell out every game this year even though the Bruins were the best team in the East all year. The Red Sox, Patriots, and Celtics sell out every one of their games, but not the Bruins. Hockey is always going to be a niche second tier sport in this country that’s why ESPN barely covers it.
Dwayne
May 13th, 2009
6:41 am
Mr.Bill…based on the little girl seeing Ilya with the facial hair….Our battle cry for next year should be…..????
LAC
May 13th, 2009
7:21 am
Interesting the Ecclestone photo, taken at the old St.Louis Arena,with Gary Unger,who played here the Flames last season and sawhis game streak end.
The 3 on the Blues uniforms was for Bob Gassoff who died in an accident the summer before, making this photo 1977.
I remember those helmetless days well !
LAC
May 13th, 2009
8:11 am
OK… Read this folks, This is from Mr.Potty Mouth levenson, who spoke with TSN,not AJC or the FANS,typical.
Who are these investors ? Who can believe anything he says or waddell, makes me wonder !
Read for yourself PLEASE !!!!!!
FROM TSN…
ATLANTA — The Atlanta Thrashers have had “several inquiries” from possible investors, but have not had talks about moving the team.
One of the team’s owners, Washington businessman Bruce Levenson, said Monday “there is no truth to the rumour” the ownership group has been involved in discussions about taking the team out of Atlanta, including with a Vancouver group reportedly interested in relocating the Thrashers to Hamilton.
The Hamilton Spectator reported on Saturday that Vancouver developer Tom Gaglardi heads a group interested in moving the Thrashers to Canada. There also are efforts to move the Phoenix Coyotes to Hamilton.
Levenson said his Atlanta Spirit LLC ownership group, which also owns the NBA’s Atlanta Hawks and operating rights to Philips Arena, recently hired an agency to “explore inquiries” from possible investors.
He said there are ongoing talks but added “none involve moving either team.”
Seven of the owners based in Atlanta and Washington, D.C., want to buy out Steve Belkin, who is based in Boston.
The effort led to a long, ongoing legal fight and also prompted a search for new investors, according to Levenson.
“We have received several such inquiries, some targeted at the purchase of Steve Belkin’s interest in the wake of publicity regarding our litigation,” Levenson told The Associated Press in an e-mail.
The unsettled litigation between Belkin and the other owners would make it difficult for the Thrashers to move from Atlanta. Another barrier is the team’s commitment to Philips Arena.
The ownership split began in 2005 over Belkin’s objection to the Hawks’ decision to trade Boris Diaw, two first-round draft picks and a US$4.9 million trade exception to the Phoenix Suns for guard Joe Johnson.
Court documents associated with the case have revealed the teams have lost nearly US$174 million since the 2002-03 seasons, including more than US$50 million in the last two years.
Johnson, a three-time all-star with the Hawks, led Atlanta to the conference semifinals this season for the first time since 1999.
One of the owners, Atlanta-based Michael Gearon Jr., said the ownership group provides a wider financial foundation to help the Hawks and Thrashers survive the recession.
“The biggest challenge we have is the distraction of Belkin and getting that resolved,” Gearon said during the Hawks’ first-round playoff series win over Miami. “I think that’s probably the biggest issue.
“We don’t have any debt on the team. As much as people critique what’s going on in Atlanta, we have no debt,” he added. “Most teams in the NBA have debt. That doesn’t mean we may not access debt.
“It just means we have a lot of options when it comes to trying to invest in the product. We’ve got flexibility. We’ll just see what happens.”
geron… What a WORTHLESS little WIMP !
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 13th, 2009
8:20 am
RH — As you said, Minnesota incorporates the colors of the North Stars to help bridge the gap and pay their due respect. To the point of my post, we don’t see throwback night in Minnesota with the North Star logo, nor will we see it in Atlanta.
Back to the topic of your post, I have no problem with Atlanta attempting to pay homage to the Flames…but I’m personally not heartbroken because they don’t anymore or didn’t at all. I understand it’s easy marketing, and I understand how the team could easily benefit with the extra exposure and link to the city’s NHL past (I’m glad they ignore the Knights, the Gladiators should be the ones to honor the Knights’ success since they too are a minor league team).
However, failed marketing is something that seems to go hand-in-hand with this franchise. Thus, I’m not surprised to hear how the ex-Flames were treated (nor to hear that Eliott is a total ASG kiss-up, even when speaking about his former teammates).
But my question is, are you less of a Thrashers fan because they don’t honor the Flames? Are those people that aren’t attending games LESS of fans because of that one missed step in marketing? Is it going to solve the woes of the franchise to simply include the players of the past into their team promotion/marketing?
It’s probably a step in the “right direction”, but much more needs to be done than I believe hanging an Atlanta Flames banner will do.
Regarding ASG looking for another owner — How does it makes sense that they would seek assistance to buy out a partner? If they need money, they take a loan. The money can be found in their couch cushions, however they need a long-term solution to the lost bank account they’ll incur once Belkin is bought out. Thus, they are searching for a partner. Clearly they had problems finding a suitable partner last time (which is why they’re in the Belkin mess now), so they’re seeking external help to find one for the future.
Sure, that partner might help pay for Belkin, but the partner is not being found just to sell the entire franchise to him (or them). Everything they say and do shows they’re looking for someone to step into the void that Belkin’s departure has created, and not bring in another majority partner to take the Thrashers off their hands completely.
We can all hope for ownership changes, but this trial is definitely not going to solve those woes for us in one fell swoop. Unfortunately we’re stuck with the ASG until at least 2011.
Finally, Ti-Cat, I appreciate your blogging here…you’re giving a stand point that the majority of bloggers on this site would never want to embrace, and will immediately disregard as Canadian bombast (and clearly have). It’s unfortunate that every time such an opinion comes in to our area that it degrades to mudslinging and name calling, but I truly appreciate reading what other people think of the situation, realistically (even if I don’t agree with everything stated).
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 13th, 2009
8:28 am
Mr.Bill…based on the little girl seeing Ilya with the facial hair….Our battle cry for next year should be…..????
I’d back the “Atlanta deserves playoff beards” campaign. It could even be adjusted based on whomever we feel is deserving…i.e., “Kovalchuk deserves a playoff beard”, “Little deserves some playoff stubble”, etc.
I like the idea.
Russ
May 13th, 2009
9:19 am
“Will always revile the Thrashers!” – Stendec
Then why do you get so mad when they lose?
Ti-Cat
May 13th, 2009
9:55 am
I am just so happy to hear that Warren Buffet is taking the Habs to Kansas City. Now instead of moving the thrashers to Ontario, we can move them to Montreal. Please, tell me how your one season of selling out more than half your games makes your city a better hockey market than Montreal. And for all the references of the future southern boys who will be playing in the NHL, where are all the southern boys that came up when the Flames were in town? Oh there is Vinny bag-a-donuts. That is all you have to show for the Flames being in Atlanta for 8 seasons. That is quite an impact you made there to the hockey community. What a joke you people are. Go buy some tickets now or won’t you support your team?
GaVaHokie
May 13th, 2009
10:00 am
I swear… every time this argument comes up on this blog, I can’t help but think of this episode of South Park.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFG2P-toC6k&feature=related
R. Stroz
May 13th, 2009
10:09 am
We have a new Pucks n Snot. YIPEEEE!
Alan
May 13th, 2009
10:16 am
THEY TOOK AR JERBS!
GaVaHokie
May 13th, 2009
10:34 am
Getting back on subject… Rawhide… the strangest thing to me is Darren Elliot’s on-air comment about “The team has done everything to get the old players involved, but they refuse.”
I don’t doubt that it was said… but it almost seems like a misunderstanding, or miscommunication or something. I don’t see Darren Elliot being so unprofessional to make such a comment without some kind of merit behind it.
I have often wondered why we don’t see more of the old Flames guys around, and I was always of the mindset of what Elliot said. They didn’t want to be involved… coupled with the franchise not wanting to associate itself with the past.
If it’s a disconnect based on misinformation… than hopefully your article can shed some light on it, and we can see some resolve… I for one would like to see the Flames guys around… I’m not ready to hang a Flames banner in the stadium, or put player statues out front… maybe an Atlanta hockey museum is the arena sounds good… but certainly, I would like to see some of the old players around.
Alan
May 13th, 2009
10:54 am
Is stendec actually Kanye West? You don’t ever see them together, do you? And besides, both of them feel their caps lock key is loud.
Rawhide
May 13th, 2009
10:57 am
Hokie – yeah…I kinda like the “Mini Atlanta HHoF” idea at Philips. Tim discusses that in detain during part two of this article…which should be posted sometime tomorrow if not tonight.
that, my friends, is known in the media business as a “tease”
Spud Webb
May 13th, 2009
11:40 am
Yea, I saw that with Savard last night. Geez. Depressing. He did love it here and loved playing golf over at Sugarloaf. I believe we could’ve kept him. Savard is and always will be a “selfish” sort of player. But up there in Boston you’ve got a few leaders (Chara) that keep him in check, I’m sure. Is this already year 3 for him in bean town?
Great games last night. Loved watching both games. Ducks can pull this out, should be interesting, game 7 caps vs pens tonight!!!!!!! YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
World be Free
May 13th, 2009
12:16 pm
I like the idea of recognizing the former Flames players. Quite a few still live in Atlanta and would like to be involved. We should recognize the players for their contributions, without trying to attach ourselves with the Calgary Flames.
Oh, we should all remember that the NHL failed in Winnepeg and Quebec City-2 supposed destinations for teams currently based in the south.
bob
May 13th, 2009
12:30 pm
every time one of the talking heads of an organIzation makes a statement, you can bet on the opposite to happen
NASCAR Dave
May 13th, 2009
1:02 pm
Wow, this is gonna be pretty damn funny when “CHRISTEN” and the DUCKS knock off the DEAD WINGS!!!
Funny how CHRISTEN goes to ANAHEIM and actually “tries” and “PERFORMS up to Expectations”… What does that say???
LOL, it must just be ATL Water, NOT the Thrashers FLAWED system!!!
NASCAR Dave
May 13th, 2009
1:03 pm
STENDEC… MARY HOSSA will not fight…
I think she is Gay (IMO)
Ti-Cat
May 13th, 2009
1:07 pm
Remembering something that didn’t happen is not remembering – it’s rewriting history. For example: to say that the NHL failed in Winnipeg is not true. The argument that a Canadian team could not survive with the weak Canadian dollar was the excuse used to move the team to the sun belt which we all know was Bettman’s main motive for his master plan. I find it hilarious that people from Atlanta (didn’t you receive a team after you failed the first time) would say another city should not have an NHL team because they already had one before. And who made Quebec City a destination for teams based in the south? Does anyone here know anything or do you just repeat your tired cliches over and over again?
GaVaHokie
May 13th, 2009
1:24 pm
Ti-Cat… actually, we didn’t fail the first time… a greedy owner sold it to Calgary.
GaVaHokie
May 13th, 2009
1:27 pm
Nascar… I think Christen has been scratched most of the playoffs… he only played 8 of the 12 games so far and has 2 Assists… that’s a FAIL in my book.
GaVaHokie
May 13th, 2009
1:28 pm
Nascar… I forgot to add… in those 8 games, Christensen has totaled 10 minutes of ice time.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/?hubname=nhl-ducks
World be Free
May 13th, 2009
1:38 pm
I grew up listening to Foster Hewitt, Dan Kelly and Danny Gallivan (the best play by play man ever). So I think there is a chance I know alot more than you. Winnipeg and Quebec City failed, regardless of what spin you may put on the facts. They had plenty of chance to succeed and they failed-period.
Gary Bettman is the No. 1 whipping boy in Canada.
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 13th, 2009
1:51 pm
From what I read on the TSN comments, Bettman is the root of global warming/cooling/lukewarmness.
GaVaHokie
May 13th, 2009
1:57 pm
It would be JUST like Bettman to take credit for lukewarmness.
World be Free
May 13th, 2009
2:03 pm
Canadian press has to have someone to blame.
Tony C.
May 13th, 2009
2:39 pm
Studies show that lukewarmness has reached crisis levels.
Ti-Cat
May 13th, 2009
2:54 pm
“I grew up listening to Foster Hewitt, Dan Kelly and Danny Gallivan (the best play by play man ever). So I think there is a chance I know alot more than you. Winnipeg and Quebec City failed, regardless of what spin you may put on the facts. They had plenty of chance to succeed and they failed-period.”
I grew up watching the Jets blah blah blah so I know more than you blah blah blah so I think there is a chance I know more a lot than you about the Jets. Atlanta failed-period. The Flames had plenty of chance to succeed and they failed-period regardless of how you spin it. Now the Thrashers are failing too.
Ti-Cat
May 13th, 2009
3:05 pm
New report came out that the Atlanta Spirit are the source of global warming. Even though ticket sales are not hot they are warming the earth. They were also seen on a grassy knoll in Dallas, Texas when JFK rode through town. From there they fled to Roswell, New Mexico until they finally bought a hockey team in Atlanta. Everything is their fault. The fans who won’t buy tickets have never done anything wrong. It’s the owners fault I tell you, not the fans who sit on their hands and won’t go to the arena.
World be Free
May 13th, 2009
3:21 pm
Like most losers, you obviously have no life.
Enjoy your AHL franchise, until that folds like everything else in Hamilton.
Spud Webb
May 13th, 2009
3:44 pm
I was just reading up on some of the Sabres RFA’s, Sekera and Stafford. Both are 22 I believe, I would love Don to throw an offer sheet up to one of them, Buffalo is tight with the cap & wouldnt be able to match any decent offer, doubt that will happen.
UFA, Max Afinogenov will be CHEAP, he is looking to prove he can stay in the NHL, cheap is the name of the ASG’s game, why not give him a flier? The thought of he and kovy on the same line, zero defensive responsability is a bit scary, but they could score some??????????
Ti-Cat
May 13th, 2009
3:46 pm
Enjoy the thrashers until they fold like the flames and are gone with the wind.
World be Free
May 13th, 2009
4:07 pm
Stay away from Max-he’s the human turnover machine. Stafford and Sekera are good and young.
Salary cap commitments for 2009-2010 (All terms US)
ANAHEIM: $38.7 million to 15 players — $1.333 to Todd Bertuzzi buyout
ATLANTA: $31.605 million to 13 players
BOSTON: $47.545 million to 15 players — $1.383 to Glen Murray buyout
BUFFALO: $46.538 million to 15 players
CALGARY: $44.911 million to 14 players
CAROLINA: $42.329 million to 15 players — $266,000 to Jeff Hamilton buyout — $300,000 to David Tanabe buyout
CHICAGO: $34.529 million to 11 players — $456,000 to Curtis Brown buyout
COLORADO: $44.897 million to 16 players
COLUMBUS: $42.921 million to 19 players — $366,667 to Duvie Westcott buyout
DALLAS: $39.518 million to 19 players — $1.937 to Sean Avery re-entry waivers
DETROIT: $51.254 million to 17 players
EDMONTON: $42.887 million to 19 players
FLORIDA: $38.003 million to 13 players — $750,000 buyout to Josef Stumpel
LOS ANGELES: $39.931 million to 19 players — $1.030 million to Dan Cloutier buyout; $666,000 to Alyn McCauley buyout
MINNESOTA: $43.666 million to 17 players — $727,000 buyout to Mark Parrish
MONTREAL: $23.520 million to 11 players
NASHVILLE: $33.012 million to 13 players
NEW JERSEY: $39.908 million to 13 players
N.Y. ISLANDERS: $32.460 million to 17 players — $3.25 million to Alexei Yashin buyout; $400,000 to Shawn Bates buyout
N.Y. RANGERS: $38.096 million to nine players
OTTAWA: $49.945 million to 19 players — $229,000 to Ray Emery buyout
PHILADELPHIA: $49.901 million to 17 players
PHOENIX: $32.075 million to 15 players — $700,000 to Dave Scatchard buyout
PITTSBURGH: $46.835 million to 14 players
SAN JOSE: $46.750 million to 13 players
ST. LOUIS: $44.764 million to 18 players
TAMPA BAY: $40.285 million to 17 players — $1 million to Marc Denis buyout
TORONTO: $44.523 million to 18 players — $1 million to Darcy Tucker buyout; $733,000 to Andrew Raycroft buyout
VANCOUVER: $31.258 million to 13 players
WASHINGTON: $44.605 million to 15 players — $366,000 to Ben Clymer buyout
*All buyouts are included in these figures
GaVaHokie
May 13th, 2009
4:21 pm
Wow… I thought Philly was in the most trouble, but it looks like Washington, Pittsburgh and San Jose.
GaVaHokie
May 13th, 2009
4:31 pm
Spud… I like them, but I’m beyond the fringe players at this point… I’m wanting no less than Cammalleri or Havlat.
Wouldn’t mind pouching Phil Kessel or Ryan Clowe, though.
World be Free
May 13th, 2009
4:36 pm
Philly want Jay B. and does not not have a goalie signed for next season. They also have a commitment to Briere for eternity.
we need to poach teams that want to dump talent. RFAs cost too much and rarely pan out.
GaVaHokie
May 13th, 2009
4:47 pm
I think Kessel and Clowe are worth the penance… but I agree RFA’s are expensive.
I think Philly is going to trade Florida a major handful of players for the rights to Bouwmeester (after some behind the scene negotiating to assure Jay Bo will sign). Not sure what would be left after that for us to trade for… they’ve talked about Lehtonen for Lupol, but I gotta think he’d be associated with any trade for Jay Bo as well.
The other party for Jay Bo is probably Toronto… Toronto will have to decide if they want to trade assets to get Jay Bo or to try and move up to get Tavares… probably can’t do both. It should be interesting to see how it unfolds.
I wonder if Florida has asked Jay Bo for a list of teams he would be willing to sign with?
Ti-Cat
May 13th, 2009
4:56 pm
Why would Philadelphia trade anyone to Florida for an unrestricted free agent? Is there some southern secret that says Bouwmeester must sign before he is traded while he is already a free agent? Why give up a king’s ransom for a player when you can get him for the same contract on July 1st?
Glovesave29
May 13th, 2009
5:14 pm
Because if you trade for his rights, you can work out a deal before he becomes a free agent and you have to bid against every one else. We don’t know what the new cap is going to be, and this can save a team millions.
Hijacker
May 13th, 2009
5:25 pm
You are forgetting something about RFA. They have to willing to sign with the Thrashers. I can’t picture a guy like Kessel leaving Boston to join an organization where the owners are fighting amongst each other. The same goes for all quality RFA and UFA on the market.
Lupul: Needs a quality playmaking center who can set him up. Philadelphia has no shortage of them. Atlanta? Nope!
Brendan
May 13th, 2009
5:44 pm
I’ve been asking for Cammalleri for some time. But Calgary may re-sign him, after all. Cammalleri seems, to me, to be the sort that wants “credit” for his play, read: handsome payday, moreso than the sort who wants to pick his destination (Hossa). I could be wrong.
But if I’m right, Atlanta can throw its hat in the Cammalleri ring. He’ll at least consider it before he says, “no.” In Los Angeles, he wanted a $5 million deal. Didn’t get it. Wound up in arbitration. Feelings were hurt. Cammalleri did his obligatory year, with the arbitration settlement. Now his agent says Mike wants $6 million-a-year. Well, if Calgary can afford it, maybe they’ll pay it. Or the “Cammalleri Camp” could soften its position and accept $5 million or less. Cammalleri’s camp has some stats working in their favor. I think Mike’s gonna really get paid this Summer. Whether that’s by Atlanta is a longshot of conjecture. But if we substantively overpay, we could get him.
Ask yourself this question. “Is it ’smart’ to pay MORE than the ‘fair market value’ for a player?”
NASCAR Dave
May 13th, 2009
6:15 pm
“Nascar… I forgot to add… in those 8 games, Christensen has totaled 10 minutes of ice time.”
LOL, hell at least he got out of this Crap-hole… Which is probably what he wanted since the day he came here!!!
I like watching former Thrashers SUCCEED with other clubs… It’s just further proof that DONNIE and his FLAWED SYSTEM doesn’t belong here in the NHL…
NASCAR Dave
May 13th, 2009
6:18 pm
HOKIE, I saw him playing on SELANNE’s line versus SJ… He did alright from what I saw of him… My point was that he seemed to be playing with much more fire and intensity than I EVER saw him play with here…
WHY is THAT???
ranallo10 (in AT)
May 13th, 2009
6:19 pm
The primary target this offseason should be a top pairing defender…I believe that’s glaringly obvious. I’m very interested to see who pursues Ohlund and what his final price tag reads.
As for Cammalleri, he’s a very talented player but I’m guessing there’s a reason Los Angeles gave him away, beyond his bloated salary expectations. He could be an angel in the lockerroom, but my guess is that there’s a reason they deemed him expendable (in exchange they ultimately received a 1st and 3rd round pick, and took defenseman Colten Teubert with the first round selection).
$5M-$6M for Cammalleri at the sake of a defensive upgrade is too much, in my opinion. There are much better ways to spend the money to fill a roster with the salary floor constraints this team will inevitably face.
Hijacker
May 13th, 2009
6:30 pm
When when the last time the Thrashers signed a quality (impact) FA? Our “biggest” signings were Holik and Hainsey. I don’t expect that to change this offseason.
Alan
May 13th, 2009
8:31 pm
My point was that he seemed to be playing with much more fire and intensity than I EVER saw him play with here
Key word: “seemed.”
Really, he’s been less productive for Anaheim than he ever was here.
Statistics tell the story. And besides, I’ve watched him against Detroit. Assuming he wasn’t scratched, he was invisible for about 9/10th of the series.
Christensen couldn’t finish if the opposing net was empty. Yes, a real success story he’s been in Anaheim.
World Be Free
May 13th, 2009
8:57 pm
Everyone will be gunning for Jay Bow after July 1. I thought you knew everything about hockey? It is a southern thing, since you are from southern Ontario!
I like Cammalleri, but I think he’s too small. Versteeg is an RFA this year. If you are going for an RFA, he’d be the guy.
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
12:04 am
Hijacker, do Bondra and Reasoner count as “impact Free Agents?” You just never know with Don. He gambles on Uwe Krupps, Jani Hurmes, or ventures down the road of Jason Williams and Steve Rucchin. Or Eric Perrin and Todd White. I suppose we can argue that Todd White, who had a career year in 2009, is an impact free agent, as far as Atlanta is concerned.
As for defensemen, I don’t know if the Thrashers want to use the draft to find a Tier I defender, like they did with Bogosian, or if they want to try, try again, on a Brian Campbell-type. I just don’t see Atlanta winning a bidding war. Even though we’ve got more cap room that 28 other teams. (Los Angeles has more that Atlanta.)
Montreal has 10 pending UFA’s. Including some defensemen. Not Schneider!! Montreal’s un-signables might be a fertile place for Atlanta to start looking. Even Saku Koivu is out there. Also, Anaheim has a remarkable number of pending UFA’s. Francois Beauchemin, Kent Huskins, and Steve Montador will be available, unless they are re-signed by Anaheim. Now, I hear ya. What about Niedermayer? I don’t even know if he’ll retire. If he comes back, he’ll be unrestricted. Chris Pronger has a year left, in Anaheim, unless they re-ink him.
For a team entering its 10th season, Atlanta still has too many glaring needs. We need two Tier I defenders. We need 3 top six forwards. And I don’t know what Atlanta will do in net. I don’t think Moose is going anywhere. And if traded, he won’t bring a decent draft pick. I don’t think Kari will get traded. But if he does, can Pavelec really carry the load just yet? If the answer is no, Atlanta can’t rely on Hedberg to make 55 starts. So, it may need a goaltender, too. If they go with Kari and Moose, and Kari is incapacitated, then what?
Hijacker
May 14th, 2009
7:38 am
Brendan,
Bondra was an impact FA signing, until his mid-season injury (I think it was an injury.) He wasn’t the same player in the 2nd half of the season that he was in the first half. My definition of a quality (impact) player is somebody who is a Top6 FWD/ Top4 Dman/ #1 G. Reasoner doesn’t fit into these categories. Perrin had a good season in 07-08, while White was subpar last season and execellent this season. I believe that the later overachieved this season. Waddell gambles too much!
Don’t look at the draft for help on defense. What Bogosian (Doughty and Schenn) accomplished last season was very rare. Normally, it takes at least 1-2 years until young Dman are ready to make an impact in the NHL. It speaks volumes about the skills of Bogosian, Doughty and Schenn that they made it to the NHL as 18 year olds.
Francois Beauchemin is probably one of my #1 FA target this summer, which probably means that he won’t sign with the Thrashers. I don’t think that he’s re-ups in Anaheim. GM Bob Murray acquired Wisniewski and Whitney at the trade deadline to compensate for the injury (and disparture) of Beauchemin. It doesn’t make much sense to pay Whitney and Beauchemin around 4 million, each, when you have prospects like Gardiner and Mitera in the system, who are ready to play in the NHL in 2-3 years. BTW, Montator was traded to the Bruins.
As you can see, above, other teams have possible replacements for current key players in the system. Don Waddell FAILED to stack the prospect stable in a similar fashion. We don’t have any prospects in the system who can replace future UFA’s Kovalchuk and Kozlov. That’s why I’m calling for Svensson-Paajarvi at #4!
GaVaHokie
May 14th, 2009
8:49 am
Hijacker… you make offers to RFA’s… if they accept it, they sign it. No harm, no foul.
Ti-Cat
May 14th, 2009
9:50 am
Who has ever traded prime talent just to “talk” to a free agent? Go ahead, keep making the cracks about Canadians. For as much as you people scream about your gm, if anyone in this league gave up actual players just to talk to someone when that player will just wait a couple weeks to hear what other teams have to say that would get you laughed out of the league. Can any of you provide one example where prime talent was traded to a team after the season but before free agency started just to talk to someone (remember it has to be “prime” because the post said Philadelphia was going to give up a lot of talent in this exchange).
Brendan
May 14th, 2009
6:35 pm
Hijacker, good post. And I’d want Beauchemin, too. But who really knows what Atlanta will do?