Passion For Atlanta’s Hockey History Is Still Aflame – Pt. I
I met up with TJ’s owner Tim Ecclestone last week to discuss some the history of hockey in Atlanta as well as the perceived lack of interaction between the current NHL franchise and those who are affiliated with the old Atlanta Flames.
Ecclestone was drafted by the Rangers in 1967, he was then traded to St. Louis during the ’68 expansion. He played in three Stanley Cup Finals with the Blues before spending time in Detroit and Toronto. Then he came to Atlanta in 1974 where he played for the Flames and also became an assistant coach. When the franchise moved to Calgary in 1980, Tim was offered a chance to move with them… Cliff Fletcher telling him that he would be head coach there, or with some NHL club, within two years.
After much thought and consideration to the idea of relocating his family and leaving the business he had here, he decided to remain in Atlanta and has been here ever since. He’s a member of Atlanta’s chapter of the NHL’s alumni group, along with a handful of other former Flames…Tom Lysiak, Eric Vail, Dan Bouchard, Willi Plett… and players from other teams.
In the late 90’s, Tim and the group were excited to learn that the league had awarded the city of Atlanta with another franchise and they availed themselves to help promote the new team. And in the beginning, that is exactly the relationship shared between the alumni group and the new organization.
“The Thrashers came aboard”, Tim stated, “There was Harvey Schiller and his son Derek, and their marketing team. They called us every week to go out there to different places…promoting the team…signing autographs…and try to drum up season tickets”.
These guys were happy to do it too. The sport does have a rich history, contrary to what some northeast hockey elitists may think, and Ecclestone and his former teammates knew that they could be a big help in marketing the team. After all, as he puts it, the Flames didn’t leave town two decades prior due to a lack of interest in the area.
”This city here has a love affair with the Flames…we put 15,000 down there every night. People think it failed…it didn’t fail. Mr. Cousins had a business decision to make”. Continuing, “We had 18,000 for playoff games and the Omni was rocking…people loved the Flames”!
However…as the inaugural season in 1999 neared, the alumni group suddenly found themselves on the outside looking in.
Ecclestone continued, “They basically brought us in, then kicked us out…I hate to say ‘they used us’, but it was almost like that”.
The purpose was served, so to speak?
“Yeah, you could say it was kinda like that”.
So, what change? Who possibly might have made the decision to place the history of the sport at arms length from the current NHL team?
Ecclestone answered by citing Waddell’s statements during the All Star Game held here two seasons ago. “He said that the gap was far too big between the teams. So we knew we didn’t have his support…Don Waddell has a lot of say-so down there”.
“However”, he added, “It’s really an issue with ownership.”
And a team’s decision to take advantage of the willingness of former players to help…even if they played for a franchise that had been relocated…can be very prudent. Case in point, the Minnesota Wild.
As Tim explains, “The Wild owners embraced the players of the past…North Stars or anyone who played in the league. They brought them in, sat them down and said ‘we want you to be a marketing arm for us. We want you to go out there and be supportive…sign autographs…we want you to be a part of us’”.
“That’s what they did in Minnesota”, he said, “Their alumni is very active in the community”.
Tim says he’s been frustrated with the current ownership’s unwillingness to work with the alumni group though he’s tried to contact them regarding such. Michael Gearon, he says, has been polite enough to return his contacts, but not so Bruce Levenson.
Regardless, Ecclestone and the alumni group continued to support hockey in the community by holding celebrity golf tournaments to raise funds for youth hockey. “We gave money to kids who could make the travel team but didn’t have enough money to go on the travel team…that made us feel good”.
How much money could be raised?
“$15,000 a year…sometimes more. And we gave that to the Cooler…The MIC…minor league hockey…scholarship money…we did this on our own”.
When I asked if he’s still personally active in pursuing any partnership with the Thrashers…to be that link to the city’s hockey roots…he simply said no, and here’s why.
“There was this story in the paper about Darren Eliot taking over promoting youth hockey in the area”. Which was fine and good with Tim and the rest of the guys as they would have been happy to assist him in such endeavors.
“But there was this night down there at Philips Arena when the Calgary Flames were in town playing. There were hundreds of red Flames jerseys, mostly Atlanta Flames jerseys, in the stands…which makes us feel good, we always like to be remembered”. He goes on, “J.P. Dellacamera comments about it and says…’Ya know, I don’t see too many of the old guys around’”.
“Eliot then says, ‘All I know is the Atlanta Spirit and the Atlanta Thrashers down here have done everything they can do to get these guys involved…but they just don’t seem to want to get involved”.
And what was your reaction to that statement, Tim?
“He made that statement”, he replied, “…you’ve got a situation where we’ve busted our butts to raise money in this city for youth hockey…an alumnus in Darren that publicly states we don’t seem to care… and you’ve got a GM that has no interest in us…and an ownership that won’t return our calls. It was disappointing”.
He then stated, “The organization has been very generous to us in regards to providing tickets for alumni, and we are appreciative of that…but I firmly believe that we could be a great service to them in their marketing efforts and promoting the NHL product in the community”.
Ecclestone strongly feels that he and the other members of the alumni group can indeed be a bridge to Atlanta’s hockey past.
“The history of hockey in Atlanta…you can’t just sweep it under the carpet. It’s still there”.
In part two of my discussion with Tim, he shares with us his thoughts on the Thrashers lack of a team “identity” and how it possibly could have been constructed…his attempt to sponsor an Atlanta Hockey History area at Philips Arena…and about two men that were also considered for the GM job eleven years ago, Cliff Fletcher and Brian Burke.
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222 comments Add your comment
Dwayne
May 12th, 2009
11:25 am
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ…………ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ……..ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ…….ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ……..ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ……ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ…..ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ……ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ…….
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
11:33 am
Adam, I did do my research. Hmmm in 07 Boston was in 13th in the conference and Atlanta was in 3rd in the conference. Yet Boston still averaged more than 100 people per game. Boston in a down year is better than Atlanta in a title year. Thanks for making my argument for me. Quite a hockey market you got down there, you won the division and still couldn’t outdraw one of the bottom teams in the league.
Do a little research before you post. –>
http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?season=20062007&type=CON&navid=NAV|STN|Conf
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
11:38 am
“We sold out games in the early years, even when we were bad.”
Yes, I see in 2001 which was your first or second year in the league you were 23rd out of 30 teams in the league. Bravo. In 2002 you were 28th out of 30 teams. Ah those successful early years for your hockey market.
Alan
May 12th, 2009
11:43 am
Hmmm in 07 Boston was in 13th in the conference and Atlanta was in 3rd in the conference. Yet Boston still averaged more than 100 people per game.
What?
In 2007, Atlanta averaged 16240 per game, while Boston averaged 14764. Hmm, so let’s see… that means Atlanta averaged 1476 more people per game than Boston did. Sounds like a bit of revisionist history. Care to explain yourself?
Difficulty: Explain yourself without insulting our intelligence.
Dwayne
May 12th, 2009
11:52 am
Atlanta, no stanley cup this year…..boston….not going to win one this year either. Go Carolina and Washington. And I don’t care if “at least boston made the playoffs” quote is used…..In the famous words of Ricky Bobbie…”if you aint first, your last”
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
12:01 pm
“GaVaHokie – But we may have had the Sedin sisters instead of drafting Stephanie.”
No, I’m pretty sure we would still have Stephanie… almost any GM would have drafted him. It’s called a “Consensus” #1.
Burke has a worst draft history than Waddell.
Ducks draft history… Burke took over in 2005.
http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00004643.html
Vancouver Canucks from 1998-2004
http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008756.html
Hijacker
May 12th, 2009
12:09 pm
GaVaHokie: “You mean when his budget was $17 million… I think anyone would be “over their head”.
..that’s just another excuse for failure.
Look over to Nashville! Do you honestly think they operated on a higher budget than the Thrashers? David Poile is a MUCH better GM than Don Waddell. In the first couple of years of the existance of the Predators, he placed an emphasis of building through the draft & player development.
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
12:09 pm
I’m sorry all the Season Ticket Holders wasted their money in the early years when hockey was a novelty, when ownership only wanted to get their feet wet by spending $11 million to $25 million on player salaries. It was obvious the intent was to get the northern transplants to come see THEIR teams play while they slowly built a team through the draft.
It wasn’t until after the lock out that ownership made a commitment (if you want to call $37 million a commitment) to build a contender. And that was the year we added Bondra, Holik, Mellanby and Havelid and came within two points of the playoffs while going through 5 goalies.
Like I always say… if it wasn’t for the Lehtonen groin pulls, the Thrashers make the playoffs in 05-06 and we’re not having this annoying, never-dying argument.
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
12:20 pm
Hijacker… you’re right… Nashville made the playoffs in 03-04 with the lowest salary in the league at $21 million. They also lost in the first round that year and every year after… I personally wouldn’t say Dave Poile is MUCH better, but you’re free to say that.
Adam
May 12th, 2009
12:20 pm
@ Ti-Cat
you also have to remember where the Thrasher were the year before in 06 and the fact that at the beginning of the season attendance was still down. The second half it was much better.
But yea that 100 person advantage really makes Boston a much better market than Atlanta. I guess that also makes Columbus a better market than both of ours.
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
12:40 pm
Ti-Cat, as in Hamilton Ti-Cats. If Hamilton wants to hijack a hockey team, they can go to another city and get ready to pay 60M to update the Copps Mausoleum, pay Toronto and Buffalo $75M to park a team in their backyards.
Hamilton has never supported their franchises, so why should they get one now?
frosty the snowman
May 12th, 2009
12:56 pm
Hokie also said a couple seasons ago that if we signed Marleau we would be a dynasty.
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
1:12 pm
Wow… it’s funny how everyone remembers what I said… even i forgot about that one.
Kovalchuk Marleau and Hossa would have been a damn good line.
Bob… I believe what I said was we were better off with Hainsey, Williams and Reasoner for the price that we offered Campbell. I believe I said that in the first half of the year when Hainsey went for 13 points in Oct-Nov and Campbell went for 17 points… and Hainsey was among the Top 8 defensemen in the Eastern Conference, which is why I suggested him for the All Star Team.
… before someone brings THAT up too.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
1:26 pm
Atlanta sold out 38 of 41 home games and set an attendance record while doing so, while amassing a WHOPPING 39-points. Then something happened. Guess what it was?
Go ahead. Take your time, now. Think about it.
An organization COMMITTED to GROWTH suddenly the saw the departure of most of building pieces in Donald Audette, Andrew Brunette, Frank Kaberle, Steve Staios, Jiri Slegr, Petr Buzek, and it became apparent that Damian Rhodes was NOT the netminder we all hoped he’d be.
Translation: Fans saw “mismanagement.” To be clear, this wasn’t about wins and losses. It was about seeing HOWWWWWWW the organization was being run, and wanting to voice displeasure over its DECISION-MAKING. You wouldn’t go to a restaurant that serves cat as fried chicken on the menu, would you? You’d voice your protest by not going back. People, for example, wouldn’t say, “Well, this is the only Chinese restaurant in a 30-mile radius, so … cats or not cats on the menu, we’d better support it, or it could close.” Same deal.
Atlanta fans said, “Woah. What’s goin’ on here? We’re all DOWN with the building project. But what’s up with this “zero sum” economics?” The goal should be to keep ADDDING pieces, not subtracting them and hoping to backfill what was lost. This is where fans began to wonder aloud, “Maybe Don Waddell didn’t really hang the moon.” Others were asking, “What’s up with ownership? They’re not empowering Waddell to do his job, and to be a BETTER GM. We’re losing players that we shouldn’t be losing. This isn’t a cogent building project. What gives?”
So yes, in Atlanta, people demand accountability over DIRECTION of the team. I have no doubt that Atlanta fans will hang through a rebuilding project, so long as it is done in capable hands. The first around, it was done by Don Waddell. The second time around … it was done … by Don Waddell. This is what has “some fans” up in arms, in stunned disbelief, thinking, “isn’t it time to give SOMEONE ELSE a chance.”
In other words, restore the “faith” that things are being handled properly … and the fans will come back. It won’t a 110-point season, with 50 or more wins. It’ll take a BELIEEEEEF that things are moving CORRECTLY. That’s all an Atlanta fans asks. Sadly, the ownership has rarely, if ever, delivered on that count.
Audette came to Atlanta with Frank Kaberle on March 13, 2000, from Los Angeles, in exchange for Kelly Buchberger and Nelson Emerson. Audette was traded to Buffalo on March 13, 2001, for Kamil Piros and Buffalo’s 4th round pick, later traded to St. Louis at the 2001 Draft.
Wanna know what happened to Kamil Piros, the Audette “replacement?” Oh, c’mon now. You do. Get those hands a-way up high! Piros was traded to Florida for Kyle Rossiter, on March 8, 2004. Riveting, wasn’t it? And full-on replacement for Audette, no? So, what became of Kyle Rossiter, the “new” Audette replacement? Answer: He was LOANED to Wilkes-Barre of the AHL, from the Chicago Wolves (AHL Thrashers affiliate), FOR CASH. Kyle Rossiter later signed as a free agent with Asiago, in ITALY, on February 23, 2006. Maybe he’s still there?
Okay, what about Steve Staios? Atlanta acquired Staios from New Jersey for “future considerations” on July 10, 2000. The Thrashers were UNWILLING to give Staios a 10% raise, so … as an unrestricted free agent, he signed with Edmonton on July 12, 2001. Staios won’t be mistaken for a Tier I blueliner, but he certainly was a capable-enough NHL defender, lo these many years, while Atlanta chased its tail with replacements like Andy Sutton, Jaroslav Slowdry, and Alexei Zhitnik. Poster Bob has the “official list” of Waddell blueliner blunders. Ask him for it.
What about Andrew Brunette? Atlanta acquired him on June 21, 1999, from Nashville, in exchange for Atlanta’s 5th round draft pick, who turned out to be Matt Hendricks, in the 2000 Entry Draft. Pretty good deal there, by Waddell. Loved it. What happened next, not so much!! Brunette “walked for nothing” in free agency, un-signed by Atlanta, to the Minnesota Wild on July 17, 2001. Major misstep. Brunette is still in the league.
What about Jiri Slegr? Slegr was acquired by Atlanta, from Pittsburgh, on January 14, 2001. The cost was 3rd round, “throw away” pick previously acquired from San Jose. Who cares who Pittsburgh took with it. On March 19, 2002, Atlanta traded Slegr to Detroit, where he got his name on the Cup, by playing in Game 5 vs. Carolina. Detroit coughed up Yuri Butsayev and Detroit’s 3rd round pick in the 2002 Entry Draft. Atlanta wound up trading that pick to Columbus for reasons I’m still not clear about. Soooo, what ever happened to Butsayev, the Slegr “replacement?” Atlanta assigned Butsayev to Russia’s Yaroslavl on November 22, 2002. On July 1, 2003, Butsayev, as an unrestricted free agent, signed in Russia with CSKA Moscow. Woo-hoo!!
Allright, what about Atlanta’s 1st “All-Star,” Petr Buzek? Anyone? Anyone at all? Atlanta acquired Buzek at the 1999 Entry Draft, via trade with Dallas, June 25, 1999. Buzek suffered a neck injury and missed a substantial amount of time in 2000-2001. On December 18, 2001, with Atlanta’s 6th round pick (Adam Pardy) in the 2004 Draft for Jeff Cowan and the rights to Kurtis Foster. Cowan actually played a few years in Atlanta. But on March 9, 2004, Cowan was traded to Los Angeles for Kip Brennan, remember him? Kip Brennan played all of 5 games for Atlanta. He spent the 2003-04 season has a healthy reserve. Woo-hoo! On September 27, 2004, Brennan signed with the AHL’s Chicago Wolves as an unrestricted free agent. On August 23, 2005, Kip Brennan was dealt to the Anaheim Ducks for Mark Popovic. Kip Brennan signed, as an unrestricted free agent, with the NY Islanders on July 3, 2007. Popovic came along through Chicago and appeared to be “NHL-ready” for Atlanta. In total, Popovic played 44 games for the Thrashers, with zero goals and three assists, for 3-pts, and was a -8. Atlanta never re-signed him after 2008. So, he walked.
What about the “rights to Kurtis Foster?” Kurtis Foster played 5 games for Atlanta, with zero goals, 1-assist, and one-point and was a -2. Foster came over with Cowan from Calgary, for Petr Buzek. Kurtis Foster was then traded to Anaheim, on June 26, 2004, for Nic Havlid. Pretty good. Havelid played many years in Atlanta. But he was dealt at the 2009 trade deadline, to New Jersey, for Ansi Salmela. That’s the evoluation of Petr Buzek to the “present day.” What about Cowan? He was dealt for Kip Brennan, remember? And Brenna was traded for Popovic, who left for free agency.
Okay, I left someone out. Frank Kaberle. Kaberle did play 5 seasons with Atlanta, coming over with Audette, for Buchberger and Nelson Emerson, going back to L.A. Kings. Kaberle was never re-signed before the lockout. As a result, he became an unrestricted free agent, where he signed on with Carolina, and helped them win the Stanley Cup in 2006. Quite literally, Frank Kaberle scored the Stanley Cup winning goal for Carolina.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
1:28 pm
Alan – I took that other posters number instead of looking up the number. So I should have done it myself which made me wrong. Either way, Atlanta is in the bottom 10 teams in the league in their best of years and the bottom 2-3 teams in their worst of years. That is not good. While you may point at Boston keep in mind they also support the beanpot and many other things hockey in addition to the Bruins. If we ever take this argument beyond attendance do you really think your tv ratings are going to compare to the Bruins?
Face it guys Atlanta just cannot even support a winning team (you are always in the bottom 10 teams) and in your down years are pitiful at supporting a losing team. Time to relocate.
Tony C.
May 12th, 2009
1:29 pm
Waaaaah!
Waaah!
I feel for Canadian fans-really I do. I also think that there could/should be 2 more teams north of the border. But telling me that myself and the rest of my friends and extended family that root for Le Thrash are “less deserving” than a fan in say Hamilton is hogwash.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
1:39 pm
And now you know, “The Rest of the St–St– I mean tale.” (I don’t want to get myself in copyright trouble.)
R. Stroz
May 12th, 2009
1:41 pm
The essence is this:
The Thrashers have a minor league GM with an ego which willn’t incorporate or acknowledge Atlanta’s hockey history, minor league scouts posing as NHL scouts, and an incessant desire to promote their groupthink propaganda using mouth pieces such as Darren Eliot.
Didn’t George Orwell warn us about this kind of stuff?
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
1:43 pm
Tony C. – you will never hear me say that Dallas is not deserving. But Atlanta needs to show up to more games if you want people from the north to stop the relocation talk. And you must stop using the “we don’t have a good team” excuse because there are many examples of teams who rank high in non-playoff years in support and again in your good years you cannot get out of the bottom 10 teams in the league.
LAC
May 12th, 2009
1:48 pm
Well I figured it out for those “canada” fair weather fans of NHL hockey.
Let’s do this and IT WILL WORK !!!!!
Move Montreal to Memphis, Montreal is NOT a major league town,face it canada fans, and hockey would flourish in the Midsouth !!!!! Simply makes sense for a floundering team !
Then Ottawa, a TRUE MINOR league city that cannot sustain a pro hockey team, Jacksonville, Fl is the best place for them, new arena and lots of fans,would be GREAT !
Next Toronto, a minor major league town, move them to Charlotte.
Charlotte was once a farm team of their’s, and a nice SE setup comes to pass… Great move !
Then the Flames, since Calergy cannot return HOME, they would be a good fit in Houston, where they don REAL Cowboy Hats !!!! Solid move !
Then Edmonton, BURRRR, the cold Alberta will be a lost memory in New Orleans,playing before sold out crowds !!!! A wonderful move indeed !!!
Lastly why does Vancouver have any pro sports teams,they are MINOR league all the way,since The Sprint Center is READY in Kansas City, there is a GREAT PRO SPORTS TOWN along with GREAT Steaks at The Golden Ox !
These moves make complete sense, it would evolve the NHL to new heights and why would they need teams in canada anyhow, simply too many fickle fans with too little brains, so a NEW SE division will be born and they
can have Elvis night twice a year in Memphis !
The NHL needs to wake up and relocate these less than deserving teams
from the wasteland of canada to the Great South, where REAL Sports are played !
Tony C.
May 12th, 2009
1:49 pm
Oh and I forgot to say:
WAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
16 years in a row no Canadian-based team has won The Cup.
WAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!
P.S. The best player in the league is Russian.
Blame Eric Lindros and the Nordiques…
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
1:51 pm
Maybe the folks up north should just mind their own damn business.
And again Ti-Cat, who sez Hamilton deserves a franchise anyhow? Hamiltonians have been whining that they deserve a franchise since the 80’s. Hamilton built that stupid white elepahnt Copps building without a commitment from anyone.
You cannot blame us for their stupidity.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
1:52 pm
R. Stroz – minor league scouts? You guys have some of the best prospects in the league, you just ended the year on a hot streak and most of your players are drafted from within. Please, I beg you, take a team that has Ilya K, Little, Bogosian, Enstrom, and guys like Postma and Pavelec in your system, whoever you pick this next draft, give it to the north and they will gladly support it. The fact that you guys don’t even appreciate what you have is another reason to relocate this team.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
1:57 pm
Tony C. – 16 years in a row you needed Canadian players to win a championship in your cities. If you think we are begging for Vinny Bag-a-donuts to come play for a team in the north think again.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
1:57 pm
Having sellouts in bad years has led Toronto to ZERO cups in 40+ years. There’s no accountability. There’s no reason for Leaf ownership to change anything. They got their money. ALLLL of it. They can run as inept of a franchise as they’d like. The fans keep coming.
Fans should demand more. They’re the customer. If the product is mismanaged, fans should withhold their support. And most fans around the league … do. When ownership/management makes the correction, the fans will be back.
In the case of the Thrashers, specifically, what CHANGE has been made? Don Waddell, and his staff, are STILL HERE! Even a President has to leave office after TEN YEARS!! But there’s just no getting rid of Waddell. Ifffff they fire Waddell, and the fans don’t come back, then there’s an argument to be made. Because in that instance, changes were vis-a-vis the management. At that point, especially if the Atlanta market produces a winner, the fans have no excuse for not being there.
Think about that, will ya? The team is well-run. The team drafts well. The team has a healthy budget. The team develops and re-signs its prospects with RFA contracts. And they win. If fans aren’t there, after all that, then I’d say Atlanta is a failing market. There’d be no excuses left.
Toby
May 12th, 2009
2:05 pm
Ti-Cat
Thing is…we have Potsma and Pavelec in the system, but because our management and coaching is so bad, we may never see them play on the Thrashers. Nobody up north, not Winnipeg, Quebec, or Hartford (I miss my beloved Whalers) would support a team that is so poorly run that they keep the same GM for the 9 seasons he couldn’t win a playoff game. Not one Canadian city would pay $$ during a recession for an ownership group who raises season ticket prices and then tells the fans to “deal with it”. Not one.
Toby
May 12th, 2009
2:10 pm
Fans down here have just had enough. I was there when we actually did make the playoffs…the place was packed and loud. I have zero doubt this city would support a competitive hockey franchise.
Hijacker
May 12th, 2009
2:11 pm
@Ti-Cat: Kovalchuk, Heatley, Bogosian, Kovy and Lehtonen were home run picks. Little was a another “easy” pick, despite being picked at #12. He fell because of his size. Let’s see if Postma reaches the NHL!
You “credit” the scouts with Pavelec, while you forget to mention something else. Those fools missed out on Kopitar, Setoguchi and Staal.
Dan Marr and Co. are at best medicore!
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
2:16 pm
Toby – the reason things happen up north is because the base is strong enough to demand it. While Toronto continually sucks while continually sells out games, there is enough of a fanbase that demands the change they get. What media is there in Atlanta to force the change the way there is in Toronto? Some diehard Canadians actually have a hard time in playing and coaching there because it is so intense. Why would the media cover it when there are only a handful of fans who will buy their reports on the team? Do you see the never ending cycle that you get in when trying to build a team in a market like Atlanta? Change gets forced in places like Ottawa, Buffalo, Minnesota (see Lemaire), Detroit because there are so many outlets demanding accountability. What accountability is there in Atlanta when in your greatest year you can’t make it off the back page of the sports section? Why can’t you make it off the back page? Because people down there would rather read about NASCAR. So you will never get the change you demand when the bulk of the sports fans are more interested in NASCAR.
The Joker
May 12th, 2009
2:19 pm
Ti-Cat – Go jump some barrels, a true Canadian sport.
Tony C.
May 12th, 2009
2:21 pm
So you’re saying that When the Nordiques had Lafleur in his twilight, and attendence was horrible it was because Canadian fans we “sticking with their team through thick&thin” right?
Tony C.
May 12th, 2009
2:22 pm
*were
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
2:22 pm
Joker – we’ll stop calling for your hockey teams if you stop calling for our NASCAR tracks. Wait a second we never built that many tracks because we don’t want that garbage interfering with real sports.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
2:26 pm
In 2005-06, the ownership greenlighted a max cap budget. Okay. That was it. In 2007, it “Eventually” got there, but didn’t start out near the cap limit. And it made “desperation-type” moves just to make the playoffs. But I digress. That 2005-06 roster was still very old, in average age. In other words, it wasn’t built to GO DEEP into the playoffs. It would have needed a whole lot of luck. Do I think it could have won one (1) playoff game, had it made it in? Answer: YES!!! I do. I think Atlanta would have won at least one (1) playoff game in 2006.
But what hadn’t changed … was erosion of confidence in Waddell’s GM prowess. So yes, the team was better, when it was at max cap. But it still wasn’t properly built. So those who doubted the management were still doubters even in the “good years.” What it takes … is BELIEEEF that the team is well-run. And that the ownership IS COMMITTED to winning. It doesn’t take ACTUAL WINS. The actual wins are byproduct of the intelligent design. Bad teams win 5 games in-a-row, in the NHL, despite what others would have you believe. Atlanta did it twice. The Islanders went 4-0-1 during a stretch last season. I haven’t looked at Colorado, but I’d wager they had an 8-1-1 stretch or a 5-game winning streak, at some point, during the 82-game schedule. They finished 28th.
There are markets in the NHL that weren’t particularly successful, but who nonetheless were being intelligently constructed over a period of time. Since making changes at the GM and/or Head Coaching positions, Columbus, Los Angeles, and Chicago are well on the rise now, after years of mismanagement. They may not win the Stanley Cup, but there’s reason to BELIEVE that things are headed in the right direction. Shoot, Chicago, who wasn’t necessarily picked to be a playoff team this year, is in the CF. Who knows how far they’ll go? But they took their time and were intelligently constructed. Fans had “faith” in the ownership. Had the Blackhawks missed the playoffs entirely, their fans would still have reason to believe that the next year will be better.
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
2:27 pm
Hamilton Jr. Red Wings, Hamilton FinCups (OHA-both teams failed), Hamilton Ti-Cats (playing in a high school stadium) – the list goes on and on in Hamilton, a true minor league city.
What about 20 years of Harold Ballard in Toronto? Now that’s accountability!
Ti-Cat – The Thrashers are here to stay and if you don’t like it
- T F B!
The Joker
May 12th, 2009
2:29 pm
Ti-Cat – Go brush the ice, curling, a real Canadian sport.
Toby
May 12th, 2009
2:32 pm
Ti-Cat
Unfortunately, the odd situation that is going with the worst ownership in all of sports (Al Davis comes in at #2) doesn’t seem to help the fact that everyone is screaming for a change. The fans as well as corporate sponsors are so sick of demanding change that this past year, the only way we can get them to take notice is to hit them in the wallet. I understand that Toronto is the exception to the “winning rule”, but no other northern city would support any team headed by the same ownership group and GM for all these years.
Alan
May 12th, 2009
2:35 pm
Either way, Atlanta is in the bottom 10 teams in the league in their best of years and the bottom 2-3 teams in their worst of years. That is not good.
It might not be good, but you’re missing something. Here, people don’t blindly follow their team just because the team is here. People here demand accountability. We demand, best or worst of times, for the team iced to at least play their part. Fact is, if you look at the 2007-2008 season, we had players who coasted through the season. Guys who went through the motions, but didn’t play with any sort of heart or intensity. By the end of the 2007-2008 season, we had maybe six guys with a “give a damn” level above zero.
We, as fans, noticed the “give a damn” level of our players.
Then, also consider the attitude of the ownership group. When confronted, Bruce Levenson basically told the season ticket holders that things will not change.
Attendance at our games have dropped because ownership’s interest has dropped… or just wasn’t there to begin with. Their interest in the fan base who helps pay their bills is nonexistent, or otherwise taken for granted.
You can’t just look at dwindling attendance numbers and say our market is unhealthy. Just like you couldn’t look at Boston’s attendance numbers and claim their market is unhealthy. Chicago. Detroit. Vancouver. Pittsburgh. All of those cities had to deal with one thing or another – some of which are dealing with the same problems we have with the Thrashers.
Try to understand our concerns with our team. Many of us love hockey, and love the Thrashers, win or lose. However, none of us are blindly willing to shell out top dollar for a sub-par product. As a computer technician, I do not spend my money on low quality parts in an effort to make a “quick fix.” As a result, I do not spend my money for the general manager of one of my favorite teams to go out and pick up cheap crap in free agency.
But hey, at least Waddell didn’t sign Jeff Finger to a 4yr $3.5m contract. That’s what I call “incremental progress!”
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
2:39 pm
Hijacker… we got Pavelec by trading down in that draft and passing on Kopitar, Setoguchi and Staal… I too wish we had taken one of the three in hindsight, but we got Bourret, Pavelec, Denny and Stoesz… if Bourret wasn’t a butterball, that might have been an excellent draft class when you add Kozek (late 2nd), Lavallee (4th Round) and Zubarev (7th Round) to the equation.
http://thrashers.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=329158&page=NewsPage&service=page#draftboard
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
2:40 pm
Again Toby – why would your ownership feel the need to make a change when they got such low support when the thrashers were winning a division title? The city has not taken to them when they were the SE champions. Buffalo and Pittsburgh both went through horrible owners this decade but because they are in good markets someone was able to come in turn things around (Golisano & Lemieux). Who would want to own an NHL team in Atlanta? Your team was doing bad at the gate when you had Ted Turner as an owner and rookies named Ilya and Dany.
Stupid Waddell
May 12th, 2009
2:43 pm
Bob’s post at 9:20am is Excellent. Spot on, and to the point, EXACTLY.
You figured me out, young grasshopper. Shux.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
2:45 pm
Toby’s exactly right, here. Try to explain this team to someone NOT in Atlanta? I’m sure they think we’re a collective bunch of bozos. The way I see it, unfortunately, the ownership is a group of businessmen. But they’re businesmen who are passionate about basketball. The hockey team may as well be volleyball, shuffleboard, or swimming.
And they’ve got it down. Let’s say… that the Thrashers were ACTUALLY a SWIM TEAM. Ready? Here’s what they’d say. “Yeah, for sure, we’re trying real hard to field a competitive team. Our GM has told us that we need a new Diver, and we’ll get one at the Lottery Draft. Additionally, we’ve targeted somone in free agency to do the “100 Butterfly” and the “50 Butterfly.” We’re also expecting that the Butterfly Free Agent we’ll sign will handle the IM Medley relays, as well.”
See?? See how it works? They don’t care. And they don’t know. They rely on a GM. And give the GM a league minimum payroll go try to land the Butterfly Free Agent specialist, who’ll wind up signing in Chicago, for less total contractual, guaranteed money.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
2:46 pm
Alan – do you really think people in those other cities don’t claim accountability and just support their team because it is there? Wrong. They demand it and things change there because of other things such as media pressure (since they aren’t spending most of their time on college recruiting). I will say the same thing to you as I did to Toby: your team was doing bad at the gate when you had Ted Turner as an owner and rookies named Ilya and Dany.
Toby
May 12th, 2009
2:47 pm
Buffalo and Pittsburgh were both in huge trouble before the lockout. Pittsburgh was all but signed and sealed to KC (with free rent!). Here is a quote from Bettman in an article about Phoenix’s problems basically stating that most of your northern teams had to be saved by the NHL within the last 10 years…
“We generally try to avoid relocating franchises unless you absolutely have to,” he said. “We think when a franchise is in trouble, you try and fix the problems. That’s what we did in Pittsburgh and Ottawa and Buffalo prior to our work stoppage. That’s what we did when the perception was that five out of the six Canadian franchises around the turn of the century were in trouble. We fixed the problems. We don’t run out on cities.”
Hmmmmm……this doesn’t sound like those teams were doing so hot….
NASCAR Dave
May 12th, 2009
2:47 pm
TI-CAT – Wanna FIGHT, WIMP???
NUFF SAID.
GaVaHokie
May 12th, 2009
2:53 pm
Alan… yeah, what a turd Cliff Fletcher put together up there in Toronto… all those great players like Grabolinskyoskypovich and Toskavinsonaberle that Canadians love.
Burke will look like the Pope for trading someone like Grabovski and Ponikarovski for Dustin Penner… sign the Sedin Twins and he’ll have his own holiday.
Ti-Cat
May 12th, 2009
2:57 pm
Toby – the only reason Buffalo was having any problems was because the owner of the team also owned Adelphia Cable which if you remember got caught in an Enron type accounting scandal and went under. The fact that he also owned the Sabres were the reason they almost went down to. Their trouble had nothing to do with the city, the fans, the support, the market. They had a 1-2 year period and then got out of it. And they were doing well BEFORE the trouble began. At what point could you say Atlanta was doing well? Certainly not when billionaire Ted & Jane owned the team. Atlanta never did well they have always been at the bottom of the league.
NASCAR Dave – that’s funny because your name is the epitome of why hockey won’t do well in Atlanta. Thanks for making my argument for me.
World be Free
May 12th, 2009
2:57 pm
Let’s face it Ti-Pussy, your beat.
Eileen
May 12th, 2009
3:00 pm
Go Caps and Carolina! The “lowly” Southeast division is sure shining during these games. This is great hockey. Congrats also to Chicago. It is amazing how a team can turn around in just a couple of years.
Brendan
May 12th, 2009
3:01 pm
I think there’s a natural ebb and flow to teams. A few years ago, I read an article in the Detroit paper about how Red Wing games weren’t being attended well enough. And the article said something like, “because ‘nose-bleed seats’ are $90. And no one will pay it.”
Unless my recollection of that article is faulty, even the mighty Red Wings aren’t ammune to low attendance figures, in any given game. And last time I checked, every years since 1993, the Detroit Red Wings have been a Cup contender. They are, truly, the exception the rule of “ebb and flow, peaks and valleys” of NHL existence.