Atlanta Hawks: Team holds meeting to air issues after loss to Celtics

O’Brien, how many picks from the bottom half of last year’s draft, a deep draft, are performing better than Williams this year? And you don’t want to give up a pick from this year’s shallow draft?

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CV- Thoughts on this?

http://goo.gl/Wu27R

Details of Joe Johnson trade emerge: Nets agreed to swap 2014-15 first-round picks with Atlanta

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BOLD MOVES NEED TO BE MADE……

Might require that you change your starting line-up coach?

Why not bring Josh Smith or Al Horford off the Bench going forward?

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Talk is cheap actions speak louder than words. That said it is important for the team to move on. We will see Boston again and can not forget this feeling. LD is as much to blame as every one else. Josh has to get in the paint and do work, Al needs to quit messing around with the ball and make quick moves to the basket. Jeff needs to stay energized and in attack mode, please give Ivan more minutes.

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SEE PETE CARROLL(SEATTLE SEAHAWKS) & JIM HARBAUGH(49ERS)

Have the Guts to make Bold Moves….

Salaries aside….Zaza Pachulia has earned the right to start…PERIOD.
Ivan Johnson deserves to be the 1st guy off the Bench right now…25-30 minutes…

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Big Ray,

I believe your right. The Hawks will have to make a move on the front line before the trade deadline..

Doc and the rest of the NBA has caught them..

Andrew Higgins should be NBA ready in a couple of years as far drafting goes..

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AL, Josh, Zaza, and Ivan do not make a team ECF ready…

Without exceptional guard play to carry them, its one and done…

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A 24 year old point guard is too young to lead this team into the playoffs. The teams needs a vet and leader controlling the offense until Teague can stop playing inconsistent if he ever does.

Denver is the perfect trading partner for us. They need shooters and have young bigs and swingmen that fit the criteria to get a deal done.

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“JJ is gone and the same problems persist, like i’ve said all along, he was not the problem. ”

Like you’ve said all along?

jlewis
September 6th, 2012
11:30 pm

Its going to take 5-10 years to get back to where we were last year…lets get real.

Try again homie.

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Yes, I still stand by what I said, and i’m not your homie.

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That team last year would have contended, injuries killed us more than the Celtics. Al was hurt, Josh missed a game, ZaZa missed the series, we had no bigs and lost 4-2. The break up was premature and done for financial reasons. I stand by what I said.

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If the Hawks go .500 the rest of the year they will lose in the first round just as effectively as they did with Joe and Marvin, who are now supporting players on worse teams than the Hawks. That’s a lot less than 5-10 years to get back to the same place.

The Joe trade was one of the top 5 trades in ATL sports history, up there with Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz and the Fred McGriff trade.

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The same prob will exist before the 3rd game coming up. The “Smoove”, will continue to launch like a nutcase, he will continue to think he’s a point guard, he will continue to live at the 3 point line, he will continue to have at least 3 TO’s a game. LD should bring him off the bench and he won’t. ZaZa needs to start along with Ivan and Al. JT needs to stop yielding to the “Smoove” at the 3 point line, he also needs to play with aggression and know where his team mates need to get the ball to be productive. LD will start the “Smoove”, but he is the cancer that continues to grow, the “Smoove” has no B Ball IQ. I’m kind of tired of LD and his talks and nothing changes. The HAWKS function better as a unit with cohesion and focus when the “Smoove”, is not in the lineup it is noted, seen and understood. Whatver reason the guards appear to freeze JJ from stroking his jumper needs to stop, JJ should be looked for at every opportunity when he is on the floor. The “Smoove will not change he is as much rhetoric as LD and twice as disruptive. DF is giving HAWK fans a mouthful of Josh Smith, it will be acceptable when he is no longer a HAWK. Folks say Al has no post game and he is a defensive liability but I can deal with his shortcomings moreso then the “Smooves” BS.

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O’Brien
January 6th, 2013
4:26 pm

Ditto!!!

Derrick Williams is an “Average” to “Below average” Basketball talent… He played out west in a “WEAK” College Basketball Conference…Like many west coast Ballers, he looked more talented playing game after game against SCRUBS…

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The details of the Joe trade are mildly interesting. I wouldn;t bet a mortgage that the Hawks finish ahead of the Nets in ‘14 or ‘15. The optimist in me says that Ty Lawson was selected 1 pick ahead of Teague… so if the Hawks are able to gain even a single spot, we could end up with a better player. But when thinking about the way the Nets’ owner is financially supporting the team, it is hard to see them not making the moves needed to be a top 2-3 team in the conference.

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I am glad that the Hawks had this bad week, now. First there were the Pistons, nice come back but too little too late. And the Pistons seem to have the Hawks number.
Then come the Celtics. Hawks have a great first half, then fall asleep and stop attacking in the 3rd quarter. Then the old Celtics played Al and Josh like a fiddle, Paul Pierce gets a few calls and laughs at the Hawks, Al and Josh complain about fouls and lose focus. Game, set, match!
Guess what guys, the Celtics are always going to get the calls, get over it. Get as tough as Zaza and start playing with the intensity you had at the start of the year. This is your year, if you wake up, play hard and forget the refs. Earn your place in the NBA otherwise, it is one playoff series and you’re gone, so is the coach and a different group of players for Danny Ferry next year. It’s now or never for the Al Horford/Josh Smith and friends.
Don’t misunderstand, I love you guys, I want this to work. When you play the motion offense and attack and come back on defense you can play with anybody. But if you let the old guard get under your skin, you are just kids.

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I hate to tell you guys this, but Brooklyn isn’t a ‘worse team’ than us.

They have struggled greatly this year adjusting to their new lineup, and they’re still only a whopping one game behind us in the Win Column.

Brooklyn, Indiana nd Chicago are coming hard and fast for our third place spot.

Josh Smith is so frustrating. we’re 2-0 without him. We avg 100+ points without Josh this year against two of the top defensive teams in the league. That’s because we tend to share the ball more.

Korver and Lou can not be given the task of guarding the opponents top wing player. That’s is not their strength. Deshawn needs to regain his starting spot.

We have a veteran, experienced, sure-handed PG on our roster: Devin Harris.

AL has to be more aggressive.

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I just posted this on hawksquawk, even before I saw this write up by C-Viv. But for those of you who aren’t a part of that site, here is what I posted:

***************

I know the focus is on Josh Smith for what went on last night. And it’s easy to focus on him for some of the plays he made. The fact is though that at least Josh TRIED to make something happen, whether it be positive or negative.

Early on in that 3rd quarter, he did go to the hole hard on two occasions to get to the FT line. The problem with Josh is that he’s just not a reliable FT shooter ( which also makes him an unreliable scoring option ). Josh misses 3 out of 4 FTs in that stretch, while the Celtics just continued to methodically chip away at the lead.

My thing is this though . . . where was AL HORFORD? What did he do to even try to stop or slow down what happened last night? Answer = NOTHING.

He passed up shots. He was late on a few defensive rotations. He didn’t rebound. Basically, he deferred to Josh, Lou, and anybody else. He had absolutely NO IMPACT in that quarter. None. If he is one of the leaders on the Hawks, this cannot happen. Smith tries, but he cannot do it. Horford doesn’t even try ( until Smith is out with an injury ).

Now we get to Larry Drew. So let me get this straight, you basically call out the Hawks for being soft when Boston turned up the pressure. But what did YOU DO to combat what Boston was doing? Yeah, you called a timeout after Boston scored 4 straight points, to so-call get the team back in focus. But you didn’t call another timeout the rest of the quarter, waiting instead for TV timeouts to “talk” to the team.

And here were your lineups to combat what Boston did: ( subs are in CAPS )

3rd quarter starters: Teague – Williams – Korver – Smith – Horford . . ( – 12 for the quarter )
4:49 mark lineup: Teague – Williams – STEVENSON – Smith – Horford . . ( -4 )
3:18 mark lineup: Teague – Williams – Stevenson – Smith – ZAZA ( -2 )
1:54 mark lineup: Williams – Stevenson – Smith – TOLLIVER – Zaza ( -4 )
1:02 mark lineup: Williams – Stevenson – Tolliver – HORFORD – Zaza ( -2 )

So you didn’t want the team to play SOFT, but you didn’t even try to go to a semi-big lineup until the 1:54 mark? And when you DID do it, you bring in Anthony Tolliver? Not even going to ask why the team’s toughest and scariest player was just chewing gum on the bench and not even getting a chance to impact the game at this time. And when you DID decide to put him in the game, he starts to make things happen, but the Hawks were in too much of a hole.

Yeah Drew, the Hawks are SOFT. And they already have that label. Your starting center DEFINITELY played soft last night. But you expect SOFT players to play with toughness? It doesn’t work that way man. Tough guys are tough guys for a reason. And they only know how to play one way.

Stat of the night for you Larry.

Out of 95 offensive play types charted by Synergy, do you know how many official post up plays the Hawks had?

THREE

3 out of 95 Larry. And two of those didn’t come until midway through the 4th quarter.

Meanwhile we had 29 out of 95 plays that were spot up jumpers ( 30.5% of the plays ). Our shooting % on those jumpers?

20.8% . . ( 5 – 24 FG ) . . . with 20 of those shots being 3 pointers ( made 5 of them )

We missed 7 of these types of shots in the 3rd quarter alone, and made just 1 – 11 in the 2nd half. Josh Smith had 5 of the misses via spot ups ( 4 actual jumpers and 1 driving layup . . 2 turnovers also ), and had the only make ( the 3 pointer that brought the Hawks within 6 in the 4th quarter )

That is on YOU Larry.

The Hawks are 28th in the league in FT attempts and 29th in FT makes.
We are 26th in offensive rebounding and 27th in total rebounding.

That is on YOU Larry.

Why? Because you continue to keep the two guys on the bench who could help you in both areas.

Zaza Pachulia and Ivan Johnson.

They’re easily the toughest guys on the team, and the best rebounding big men you have ( from a Rebound % standpoint ). You call your team SOFT, but leave the TOUGH GUYS on the bench? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Bottom line is this. If you’re not going to reign in Josh Smith from taking a ton of outside shots and acting like he’s an elite scorer, you may as well play him at SF for significant stretches, let him fire away, and play guys at PF who will REBOUND THE DANG BASKETBALL when he misses shots.

Stop calling the team SOFT, if you put the softest lineups possible out on the floor. And tell your All-Star center to start to be a LEADER on this team, and take matters into his own hands.

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The Nets ownership will get it done in time — but not this yr.

Unfortunately we are stuck with the Levinson/Gearon group for a little while longer. No one knows how much longer — I still cannot get over the way they ran down the Thrashers out of town.

That was not the fault of the fans — I know I am not paying one dime for anything at the Phillips till these clowns are gone.

Don’t hate the players or coaches but really don’t love em either.

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Memphis is $4M over the luxury tax threshold, and has struggled a bit of late. Hawks should offer:

Harris, Korver, Tolliver, and Houston’s pick for Rudy G and Tony Wroten.

Memphis shaves $3M+ off their salaries ($6M+ in tax savings). Atlanta picks up a little star power.

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I just can’t wait till the offseason already. Get rid of Drew and get to see exactly was Ferry is planning.

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MattP:

There are always plans, but there arent that many good players. The ones that are any good you have to overpay or slot them in around superstars(or supposed stars). The players out of college come out to young and it’s taking 3-4 years to develop them and most dont have good fundamentals. Building a team is very difficult. Najeh likes to research whats said and I said this which I will also standby, this team will be moved out of ATL or operated on the very cheap because of the collective bargaining agreement to solely make a profit. As they say in politics “we can not stay on the current path, its not sustainable”

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My point being, opposing coaches likely love it when Josh (or any single non-megastar player) decides to take the game into his own hands. It is a BAD move and one that should not be excused. I think you could have made your point without making Josh’s efforts sound almost admirable.

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No doubt Astro. Doc definitely wanted the ball in Josh’s hands. The question is . . how does Drew counter that, or better yet, how does he get Josh in a better scoring position, if that was indeed the Celtics game plan?

The Celtics came out and started treating Lou like he was Joe Johnson. And Bradley really turned up the pressure on Teague. And Korver is only a threat if he’s wide open and if people set him up for shots. So that leaves the stars on the team ( Smith and Horford ) to try to do something.

One tried to. The other didn’t. And the coach did little if anything to help them out, until it was too late.

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I don’t think Austin Daye would be a cheap upgrade. A lil weight and muscle along with dedication and who knows what the final product would be. I’ve been in favor of that as a trade possibility for awhile. I want the HAWKS to stay away from D.Cousins, head cases will always be head cases.

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Pierce abused us under the basket…Korver was a bad matchup. mike Scott didn’t get any playing time. I think we should start Zaza. He started last year when Al was hurt and we posted the 3rd best record in the East 40-26. We have to establish an inside game. Al as center can’t defend the rim and teams are getting whatever they want. Teague’s numbers have.been.dropping since through beginning of December. Asia point guard, he’s responsible for our offense much.like a quarterback . Against Detroit he had 5 points 5 rebounds.Zaza HAS always played against Garnett, why was he out

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“Out of 95 offensive play types charted by Synergy, do you know how many official post up plays the Hawks had?

THREE” -northcyde-

So northcyde confirmed the eyeball test..

The Hawks on ran 3 post plays all game?

You post only 3 times, your supposed to lose against teams that can exploit that.

Dismantle this overrated Front Line yesterday…

Cap space mean squat if none of the High profile FA’s want to come here.. Would you?

POST 3X= FAIL

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ONLY*

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two amigos*

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Northcyde, I like your 5:45 pm post. Glad to see someone else noticed what happened in the second half.

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even with what i said earlier in the previous blogs, the east is so bad outside of a few teams, hawks will still staas a top 4 seed maybe slip to 5

Having a player like such as a tyson chandler type would do wonders for this team or someone who whole purpose is to protect the rim and concentrate on rebounds. Unfortunately there isnt anyone that is available that can really do that.

Hawks needs to get a SF that can defend and rebound.

When you have second tier to third tier players, coaching becomes even that more important. Good examples of that are Thibideou since Rose went down and George Karl and Scott Skiles. Even though Hawks have a better team record wise than Skiles and Thibodeou, you can see the game plan that they utilize.

To me it will really come down to how the Hawks fare in the playoffs which will determine LD fate. In a lot of ways this Hawks team is like the movie Groundhog day. Similar issues happened when Woodson was coach although the team was much better overall defensively but the same issues remain with Woodson and LD: lack of in-game adjustments and lack of developing or playing young players.

Josh and Smith are what they are and in a lot of ways I think both have peaked

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This A M `s team mtg was bull-shoo-shoo, in my humble opinion.

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Grandad,

Good evening sir. We have seen this story with this Hawks team. What would you do right now considering Hawks have a lot of cap space this summer and I am not sure the major free agents are coming here I think if LD doesnt get to 2nd round LD wont be back. What would you do to make this team better?

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Slimjr on Jan 6th, `13 @ 6:45 pm

” When was the last time you saw Al or Josh
set a solid pick or screen to help free the guards
for dribble penetration? ”

Slimmer ::
did you watch the 1st Qtr of the most recent Pistons game ?

The best display of our *new “pick & roll” game
*[which LD institututed from the Israeli coach].

Al is the better screener, always has been.

Josh has never been taught to screen *’`ever`’*
not entirely his fault and he does not like to P&R.
Josh wishes to catch & then dribble …
does not like to catch & react.

Za is our best P&R player !

For obvious reasons Al prefers Pick & Pop.

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I have also said that Kyle Korver, as much as many of you try to make him the greatest thing since sliced bread, is a huge defensive liability, and teams in the east, that know his game will exploit that. The Paul Pierce’s, Lebron’s JR Smith’s, Danny Granger’s will destroy him in a playoff situation if he is our starting 3. He should be coming off the bench. He is a great shooter, but that’s it.

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[...] to Chris Vivlamore from the AJC, the Atlanta Hawks held a meeting Sunday (originally their off day) to air issues and grievances [...]

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Missed the 1st half Grandad.

Got to see the 30 point 3rd quarter swing.. It was a miracle for Boston Fans…lol..

Wonder if anybody saw those 3 post plays according to Synergy? heheheh

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Hs I hear ya…hhahahahaha

I just believe Cousins will mature, heck hes only 22 and is more talented offensively than Josh or Al combined already..You got to roll the dice sometimes..The two Amigos have peaked.. What you have seen is all your gonna get..Its a wrap…

The streak will continue with the two Amigos featured together on this front line…Jettison one…

46

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Cousins is a risk & has had his share of incidents in his short career.

Do you really want to put the future of the team on a kid with as many charachter flaws as he has had. And its not like the Kings have been close to respectability of any kind since he has been there.

Big time talent but he has taken them nowhere.

I do get why some would want Cousins but be careful what you wish for.

Josh is never going to be what people want him to be — he is just a tad short of All-Star ability. He does not have the shot to carry a team offensively but I want the Hawks future to include Josh.

Future defensive player of the year. He is a 15-16 point guys with the great D and some rebounding abiltiy. Worth keeping even if he is not a number one player.

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1) Drew waited WAY to late to call a timeout in the 2nd half to calm things down, we could all see it was unraveling quickly… couldnt he?
2) Drew waiting until the game was basically tied and the Celtics had all the momentum to bring back in the Hawks hottest player in Williams. Just dumb.

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W.R. Terrell, Daye would be an inexpensive SF with upside. Inexpensive=cheap. He is a free agent next season and won;t likely get more than $4M/year. Cheap.

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Raise your hand if you think Horford would have gotten credit for trying had he shot 5-16 last night.

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“But when thinking about the way the Nets’ owner is financially supporting the team, it is hard to see them not making the moves needed to be a top 2-3 team in the conference.”

I’m confident that Prokhorov will do whatever it takes to win. I am much less confident that Billy King can pull off the necessary moves with that roster to make it happen. Have you seen their salary cap? Their top 5 players are locked into long term contracts that make them virtually untradeable for equal value. Even if some superstar becomes available via trade for them, what small market, rebuilding team is going to take on one of those contracts in return? They look pretty locked in to their current team to me.

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“So you didn’t want the team to play SOFT, but you didn’t even try to go to a semi-big lineup until the 1:54 mark? And when you DID do it, you bring in Anthony Tolliver? Not even going to ask why the team’s toughest and scariest player was just chewing gum on the bench and not even getting a chance to impact the game at this time. And when you DID decide to put him in the game, he starts to make things happen, but the Hawks were in too much of a hole.”

Co-sign.

“Bottom line is this. If you’re not going to reign in Josh Smith from taking a ton of outside shots and acting like he’s an elite scorer, you may as well play him at SF for significant stretches, let him fire away, and play guys at PF who will REBOUND THE DANG BASKETBALL when he misses shots.”

I agree with you that they should have gone bigger. I don’t necessarily agree that Josh would have jacked up more jumpers at the 3. On the contrary, Josh like the rest of this team is scared of KG and refuses to take him inside. For the last three years (at least), every time KG guards Josh, he plays his left hand and baits him into jacking up jumpers.

If Josh was at the 3, he would have a) been posting up Paul Pierce, a much more favorable matchup, and b) been guarding Pierce on the other end, a much more favorable matchup than Korver on Pierce.

Not to mention, with Zaza on the floor, there’s no way the Hawks get killed on the boards by one of the worst offensive rebounding teams in the league.

I still doubt that this pansy ass, mentally Kleenex team beats the Celtics if LD goes big, but I do think going bigger would have helped.

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“Raise your hand if you think Horford would have gotten credit for trying had he shot 5-16 last night.”

I would give Al a TON of credit if he’d start consistently taking those mid range jumpers he so often passes up only to lead to Josh jacking up a jumper at the end of the clock. Al is one of the two best players on this team and he’s a better mid range shooter than most big men in this league. The Hawks can do a lot worse on any given possession than an Al mid range jumper.

On a better team, where Al can play the supporting role to which he’s best suited, it makes sense to pass up those shots. On this team, he needs to look for his shot a lot more than he currently does.

Same thing applies to Josh in that he’s best suited to a supporting role, but on this team, he needs to look for his shot (or at least to create good shots for teammates). For better or worse, he does that.

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OK, well, maybe I’m the only one who would never give a guy credit for shooting less than 40%. I actually expect that player to start finding other ways to help his team other than keep hoisting up bad shots.

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Anyone want a max player who inefficiently scores 18-20 points/game while being an average rebounder and defender at the SF position? Because one may be available in the next few weeks.

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NBA on NBC Boston ‏@NBAonNBCBoston
Sources close to http://nbaonnbc.com confirm that Danny Ainge is working to complete a deal to bring Cousins to Boston, tonight.

Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
The Boston Celtics waived Kris Joseph and Jarvis Varnado today. Several league sources believe they’re opening roster spots to make a trade.

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“Raise your hand if you think Horford would have gotten credit for trying had he shot 5-16 last night.”

Hand Raised. I would much rather him take a wide open mid range jumper or a shot right under the goal than passing the ball to Josh standing at the 3 point line.

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R.f C.P.

In an attempt to be fair when I speak of Josh and Al,
especially in comparisons, I do not feel compelled to go tit for tat.
In other words, if I say a kind word for one
I do not feel like I must counter with same for the other.
Likewise if I say something good or bad;
I do not feel the need to oppose that POV about the other.

What gives with you people ?

Okay so you want a Josh player eval excrement discharge;;
`tis on it`s way !

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If DeMarcus goes to Boston instead of Atlanta..

The Hawks will quickly become a non mother freaking factor in the Playoffs!

Oh the Humanity!

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“In an attempt to be fair when I speak of Josh and Al,
especially in comparisons, I do not feel compelled to go tit for tat.”

The reason I always reply to your post is because you are never fair. You treat Al like LD does, as if he is the greatest player with the highest “Basketball IQ” you have ever seen. Does a high IQ player who shoots a high percentage from mid range continuously pass up wide open shots to kick to a bad jump shooter? My basketball IQ tells me know. Does a high IQ baskeball player continue to stand ther looking while layup after layup are made in his face with no resistance? My IQ says no.

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“I’m a firm believer that things happen for a reason.”

Well, what do you know… Larry Drew is a Calvinist.

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I am amazed at when this team plays good you guys love them, but when they play bad some of you want to fire the coach and trade the entire team. I can agree with some of your opinions on the hawks issues, just not your answers to some of them. The NBA recognized Larry Drew as the coach of the month and some of you guys still want him fired. The Hawks have a GM be patient enjoy or hate this season, but leave your panic buttons at home. We still have 40+ games to go.

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The Hawks could improve their team if Larry Drew and the rest of the team would let Jeff Teague play point guard because they are not allowing him to play the point for the whole game only brief stretches. If we had different coaches(not from the Larry Brown coaching tree) he would be a star especially after the Chicago playoff series a couple of years ago.

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When taking 12 shot attempts or more (over the last 3 years), Al has only shot less than 33% once (game 2 against Bulls in playoffs, 25%). If he’s not on, he just simply won’t take the shots. That’s a perfect trait for a role player, but not for one of your main scoring options.

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Yeah, that Steve Smith for JR Ryder trade worked out really, really well.

Truth is that a team like Boston with Pierce and KG is FAR more able to take a risk with a talented but emotionally challening player than a Hawks team. The Celtics ooze leadership. We ooze something else.

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Thanks for the response C-Viv.

LD said rebounding is about energy and effort. Which goes back to northcyde’s point. Why not play the one guy who consistently brings both? Ivan, Mr. 9-5 SMH.

So Hornets waive Dominic McGuire, and Pacers waive Sam Young. Is there any reason why the Hawks should not bring one of these guys in for a tryout for the SF position?

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Rod from College Park
January 6th, 2013
9:36 pm

Bingo!

Al passing up shots afraid to miss/not wanting to take difficult shots and then handing/passing over the rock to a worse shooter is only one of two things:

Cowardice/self preservation; or
Low BBall IQ

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OB,

No roster spot

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vava…Hawks have a roster spot, and could have 2 soon. Trying to figure out AT’s situation.

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Steve, yeah, I am VERY sure that Lawson is better than Teague. Extraordinarily sure about that one.

BTW, there is a reason why Jsoh’s teammates can often find him wide open for a long distance shot. It is the defensive scheme employed by the opposing team.

When the going gets tough, sometimes you have to go inside and look to get hacked, so that you can go to the FT line to stop the run. northcyde, I thought you said the Hawks rn like 3 post-up plays in the second half.

Steve, still sure. Lawson is better than Teague. Ask around, see if you can find folk who aren’t sure (since I’m sure that you will doubt my objectivity).

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vava,

I think Just Joe is correct. Hawks should have a roster spot open.

Just Joe,

i think AT contract is only partially guaranteed, if you find the date Hawks can waive him by, let me know.

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Depurating the excrement –> approaching fan –>
wait for it, wait for it –> ::

Josh Smith player evaluation from a purely antagonistic POV !

*absolutely unrealistic viewpoint of himself
*irrational confidence; [r e Bill Simmons "The book of Basketball"]
*negative zero B-ball IQ / not dumb [worse] / thinks he`s smart [not]
*can`t shoot, but does anyway
*can score in post [doesn`t want to]
*thinks he`s Magic [ain`t]
*doesn`t like to catch & finish / needs to pound the ball 1st
*refuses to outlet after a rebound
*doesn`t box out
*doesn`t close out on shooters
*if he can`t block it he can`t guard it
*never in proper stance
*rarely in position (allowed to roam / play free safety)
(in so doing gets blcks & steals yet teammates are left to cover) !
*four players must play team offense while Josh floats
*slow to get back on defense … why ?
*whines, pouts, cries at officials … thusly he rarely gets a call
*cannot make a free throw
*the other team allows him to shoot uncontested outside ;;;
*the other team fouls him inside – I wonder why ?
*he`s never made an all-star team – always someone else`s fault
*he`s never won a championship or been to a Finals ;;;
*I wonder who`s at fault ? certainly not Josh [must be Al`s fault]
*Wishes to be the Man
*Can he be the Man ? [I think not]
*inconsistent
*never averaged 20, never averaged 10
*wants a max contract (I suspect) ?
*is he a max player ? (hardly)
*tough ? – compared to whom ?
(Oakley, Maurice Lucas, A.I., KG, Ivan, Zaza) … you reckon ?
*high turnover rate, cannot dribble / thinks he can
*perceived as difficult to coach
*hard headed to say the least / obtuse to overstate
*unpredictable
*dumbfounding
*and finally –> he`s become –> *’`Unwatchable`’* !

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“Al passing up shots afraid to miss/not wanting to take difficult shots and then handing/passing over the rock to a worse shooter is only one of two things:

Cowardice/self preservation; or
Low BBall IQ”

DING!!!!!DING!!!!DING!!!!!!

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Cousins will feast in the East..

He put up 31 and 20 against the Raptors a couple of nights ago.. Hmmmm

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I can see kg holding cousins while rondo does some rib shots to help cousins “mature”

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@Duluth Joe

“Count me in for Cousins. The man is crazy talented and young. Does he have problems? Yes. But not of street variety. He got problems on the court. He wants to win. He is a competitor. He is young and will get mature.

Did Rodman have problems? Did Chicago take a chance on him? How did that work out?
Did Artest have problems? Did Lakers take a chance on him? How did that work out?” – Duluth Joe @10:31pm, 1/6/2013

The Bulls had (Michael) Jordan, (the) “Zen Master” (Phil Jackson) and “ch’ip (championship) hardware” to “reel in” “The Worm” (Dennis Rodman) if he (Rodman) “got out of line.” (pun intended)

The Lakers had the “Black Mamba” (Kobe Bryant), the “Zen Master” and “ch’ip hardware” to “keep the peace” with Metta (World [War and] Peace). (pun intended, again)

Who do the Hawks (currently) have to deal with DeMarcus Cousins if he (Cousins) starts “trippin’”? “Lame Duck” (LD) and “Osh” Smith (”Smoove”)? And when was the last time the Hawks advanced past the second round of the playoffs?

When the Bulls and (the) Lakers acquired Rodman and World Peace, respectively, both franchises during those periods (of time) had individuals with a “commanding presence” within their respective organizations. The Hawks franchise at this juncture does not have individuals with a “commanding presence” within the organization.

If this Hawks team was currently a non-playoff team, then I might take “the risk” (on acquiring Cousins) but since this Hawks team IS currently a playoff team, I would have to say “NO” to “the risk.”

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Ha! Tool livers for tolliver. I hate spell correct

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If Cousins was to go to the Celtics, do you think he would really be the same as he was with the Kings? Do you believe he would pull out the immature stunts and childish games with KG, Pierce, and Doc Rivers there?

Hell no.

I understand he has amazing skills….but so does Josh and look where we are with him. We haven’t had a leader on this team since Steve Smith played for us back in ‘98. Larry Drew is afraid to “COACH” Josh Smith and put him in his place when needed. What makes you think he has the testicles to call Cousins out?

I would only go for Cousins if I’m confident in my teams leadership. So until Danny Ferry brings in leadership to the Hawks, I don’t see us faring well.

And yes…if the Celtics acquire Cousins while keeping KG, Terry, Pierce, Rondo, Green and Lee then things will get very interesting in the East. Also, don’t forget Rose and Granger will be coming back soon to their respective teams.

It’s going to be really interesting….

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“Who do the Hawks (currently) have to deal with DeMarcus Cousins if he (Cousins) starts “trippin’”? “Lame Duck” (LD) and “Osh” Smith (”Smoove”)? And when was the last time the Hawks advanced past the second round of the playoffs”

High-sider, It is reported that Dallas also has interest in Cousins. Who does Dallas have, to keep Cousins under control? Dirk? Shawn Marion? Vince Carter? Their coach who wants to penalize players? What makes Dallas more suitable than Atlanta? Is Dallas in better standings and have more talent than Atlanta now(Dirk is old and who knows how much more he has left, Mayo may leave)? Is their future as bright? They couldn’t get D Williams or Howard to come.

Relative to Celtics, I agree with you that Garnett and Doc and Pierce are positive influences on all players going there. But Cousins is new generation blood. What makes you so sure he can get along with players easily 10 or more years older than him? As for each team’s young talent, I can argue Hawks current young talent is just as loaded (if not more) than Celtics.

As for Hawks, I can also argue that Josh is a veteran that other players respect. Apparently Lou came here because of Josh (one of the reasons). When was last time you heard of locker room problems with Atlanta? (Possibly Ivan, but we all know that is the baggage Ivan brought from prior life, but now is not problematic). Why is it that you don’t hear about infighting in Hawks locker room? Could it be the positive one-two punch of Josh and Al in the locker room and a coach that actually has a tone more suitable to new generation than old style coaching (think Bob Knight or Sloan or Pop style)? Does same coach creating an environment that players actually want?

Add to that Atlanta as a destination city for young African Americans and its history. Compare that to Boston and its climate/culture. Which do you think is a better city to sell to him? I bet Cousins knows more about Atlanta than he does about Boston since his college wasn’t too far from here.

Don’t confuse Josh playing style, with Josh as a teammate. It is all on how you sell and spin.
As I said it is a risk, but one worth taking with Cousins kind of talent.

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C-Viv,

By the way, could you get someone to block all bloggers who spell Zaza’s name Zsa Zsa or ZsaZsa?

It’s freaking annoying!

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Folks are constantly on the lookout for a SF. The HAWKS have one in Mike Scott and if management is wise then DF will get Austin Daye. ZaZa and Al should remain together along with Ivan. I think Dwight Howard will be in Atlanta after the “Smoove” is gone. Lou Williams and Anthony Morrow are good friends of Dwight and DF was smart in bringing them both to Atlanta. JJ is solid and DF will bring a talented point guard to the HAWKS,JT is not the answer. DF was not looking for this team to make the playoffs, his goal was to put an entertaining team on the floor and he has accomplished that. I think he wants the “Smoove”, to do well so he can get a decent trade out of it, prob is Josh is screwing that up. Weiss will be coach in about 6 more losses. The young talent will get a chance to grow and next year will be a fun year. Dwight, Al and Ivan could be a formidable front line. Next year will be fun, patience needs to be exhibited for this season and D. Cousins probably could be harnessed by Doc Rivers and the Celts team but in no way are the HAWKS present coaching staff capable or the team.

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Good points by Astro Joe and Northcyde.

It all comes down to a few things, I think.

1) Larry Drew is inadequate as a head coach.

2) The team lacks true leadership on the floor. Nothing is changing here. The differencebis with Joe and Marv gone, we’re paying less for the same lack of floor leadership. No one on this team seems capable of stepping up to be a real leader.

3) The “stars” of this team are not real stars. Even Al Horford’s personal accolades look like a fallacy, considering he has not stepped up and led the team. Apparently he just doesn’t have it. Either you do or you don’t. …it shouldn’t and can’t take LD pleading with you to do it.

Meanwhile Josh “tries” to “lead” but fails. He just can’t do it. When a guy takes too many shots (and the wrong kind), it’s great to talk about effort, but that ain’t leadership. Josh doesn’t know what else to do. The fact that he tries so much can never overshadow the fact that his efforts often result in failure in games like this. Sorry, but when you are 4 of 18 from the field, have 6 turnovers and are 10-20% less on free throws over the last few years, you gotta own some of that.

4) These team meetings mean nothing. Leaders call meetings and then take it to the floor and follow through. Until we see the follow through, these meetings are wastes of time.

I would like to see some action by the trade deadline, but the right moves may not be available then, so the offseason it is. Not worth the worry in the meantime. This team can’t do more than it is right now.

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when you stand around on offense, take crappy shots and nobody hangs around to try to get a rebound, YOU LOSE!

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The one player who needs to lead us is JT. He needs to set the table a la Rondo.

Josh and Al are not leaders, not at any of the other levels they played at. Al had a good leader in Billy Donovan, and hasn’t had one since.

While LD treats these guys like men, he has decided to put all his chips in on Josh and Al.

And if there’s anyone that has earned a starting role on this team, its Zaza. He is our unofficial tough guy. Put him, Ivan and Deshawn in there, choose Al or Josh because they both bring the same talent.

Throw a lot of Lou in, and you have our best chance to win games.

Hawks back-2-back this week, and should manage wins in both as neither team is at full strength.

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Duluth Joe,

Apparently Lou came here because of Josh (one of the reasons)..

That maybe so, but lets not forget that Lou played at South Gwinnett HS, and wanted to be closer to home. Plus the Hawks were willing to pay him.

When was last time you heard of locker room problems with Atlanta?.

Winning takes care of a lot of locker room problems, and even though the Hawks have bad stretches, they have been to the playoffs 5 straight years. And it’s not like we have any malcontent players (with history) on the team. As a matter of fact, I think ownership has specifically stayed away from guys like that (except for Ivan).

Also, how many teams do you hear of with locker room problems? Very few. imo, the absence of locker room problems does not mean leadership is present.

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OB – damion James just put up 27 and 11 in DLeague. I hope we’re keeping the kid on the radar screen.

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Wow, I read some really great comments on the Hawks recent swoon…I can’t imagine why LD wouldn’t match Zaza up against KG…and would match Korver up against Pierce…with an unbalance…undersize roster like the Hawks.

I don’t get to watch the Hawks as much as I did in past…However, I still enjoy a lot of my favorite blogger’s comments. It’s therapy for me!

LD is a nice guy with good X and O skills…but his lineup and rotations leaves you scratching head…and that’s putting it mildly.

The Hawks loose too much fire power from the second unit with Lou starting. Lou use to be a terror in the third and fourth quarter of the game…I don’t think you get the same pop…with Lou starting with Teague. Hopefully that came out in film session too.

TIME TO BOUNCE BACK… U R STILL 3RD IN THE EC…GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Question:

Which notable NBA player in the playoffs, against the Celtics, notoriously under-coached, started launching bricks from outside, frustrated with the lack of contribution from Colleagues when the things got tough and then sulked and played like cr@p?
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… Lebron F&%$ing James

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Dwight with the shoulder MRI, after grabbing 26 boards. Possible rotator cuff injury

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vava, so Josh will be the league MVP, Finals MVP and Olympic gold medal winner in a few more years? COOL!!!

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Not taking contested shots in favor of passing to open 3-point shooters who have been the biggest reason the Hawks have enjoyed early season success is equal to cowardice?

WOW!

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Talking about Al:

If the only wide open team mate is Josh, probably due to strategy by the opposing team, then YES, passing him the rock is either cowardice or lack of basketball IQ.

If you know that by passing the ball to Josh you are actually executing your opponents’ defensive strategy, then what the &%$# can you conclude about the decision to continue to make that pass??

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“Not taking contested shots in favor of passing to open 3-point shooters who have been the biggest reason the Hawks have enjoyed early season success is equal to cowardice?”

His shots are not contested he is wide open or he is in the paint, and he is not kicking to a good open 3 point shooter, he is kicking to Josh Smith behind the 3 point line, or for a long jumper which is playing into the defenses hands.

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vava74,

“If you know that by passing the ball to Josh you are actually executing your opponents’ defensive strategy, then what the &%$# can you conclude about the decision to continue to make that pass??”

vava74, u are simply making NO SENSE NON WHATS SO EVA!! So u mean to tell me, Horford should avoid passing the ball to a WIDE OPEN TEAMMATE and try maybe throwing a pass clean across the court JUST to avoid a pass to Josh??? Which could end up as a TO?? AND would truly look OBVIOUS that Josh is being overlooked by Horford IF players should avoid passing the rock to Josh all together as well…am I right on this, is this what u suggest Horford and others to start doing????? REALLY????

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AJ,

Basketball is basketball. The situations are akin in the sense that BOS baited Lebron into taking long jumpers, his team mates leaned on him to bail them out and CLE’s coach was as inept as LD is (as the LAL experience also proved).

Like it or not, when Teague says that “I have confidence in Josh” and passes him the rock for a long jumper and Al avoids shooting and SHARING the load and also passes him the rock, the problem is does not lie solely, not even by a mile, on Josh.

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MsDee,

“Im late on most of this but Im just reading back thru some and these posts and its funny yet sad that folks like Rod from CP, northcyde, & slimjr are taking blame on Horford passes the ball out to Josh when Josh just needs to use SOME SMARTS and do the same thing by passing to the next available player who is in a better position to receive the ball.”

So out of everthing I posted, you only saw the part where I talked about your beloved Horford. Guess you missed the part where I talked about Josh and Teague. LOL. May I ask you who the next available player might be. Remember Teague and Horford are playing scared, and don’t want to take tough shots, so that leaves Korver who Boston made sure kept a defender on and Lou Williams who destroyed them in the first half and they adjusted to him in the second half. You do realize that there are only 5 players on the court at one time for each team correct. Love to know who that wide open available player you are speking of is.

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vava, I did NOT blame Josh for the Celtics lost nor do I believe that he is solely responsible for taking the bail out 3 pointers. But I also am not of the opinion that he is blameless.

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Rev, fans can look at a roster composition and then predict XX number of wins during a season. And then with every loss, they act shocked and surprised, while none of them predicted an 82 win season. How does an unbalanced roster show itself during actual games? When a team can exploit an obvious weakness and the Hawks have no rebuttal to the way they are being defended because they lack “balance”. So we knew going in the team would rely on quickness and 3-point shooting to win games. So when an opposing team is able to defend those tings, logic would dictate the Hawks will struggle. Then we act shocked and surprised when that happens.

We can look at the roster and see their is a void of on-court leadership. Yet when we watch the team deal with in-game adversity and they shrink in the heat, we act shocked and surprised and start blaming individual players and the head coach. Well, what did you think would happen with a lack of lclear on-court leadership?

The Celtics game (2nd half) only confirmed what we already knew. I’m not sure that anything new was exposed. Teams that are able to exploit the known weaknesses will win games against us.

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Larry Drew should persue a career in Hollywood; because he spends all of his efforts trying to ACT like an NBA coach. But, he’s far from it, and doesn’t know the first thing about how to coach winning basketball. This team could be so good, if they got a coach…

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Rod, but we also see Josh turn down shots at the rim in favor of a long distance shot by a teammate. It is the make-up of the team. It is one of the biggest reasons this undersized, unbalanced team with a middling head coach has gotten off to such a start that folk are talking about using cap space to acquire Richard Jefferson because of their position in the conference. I don’t like it either but it isn’t isolated to a single player and Josh by NO means is the only recipient of those “from deep in the paint to outside the 3-point line” passes. And he is actually one of the guys who makes those passes. It is in the paybook, in their DNA. And it is a big part of their 20 wins.

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[...] train back on the tracks Tuesday night against the Minnesota Timberwolves (15-15). According to the AJC’s Chris Vivlamore, the Hawks held a team meeting Sunday, just a day after choking away a 20-point lead against the struggling Boston [...]

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