Atlanta Hawks: Rematch with Pistons awaits

High-sider

January 3rd, 2013
5:08 pm

1st?

High-sider

January 3rd, 2013
5:08 pm

2nd?

High-sider

January 3rd, 2013
5:15 pm

I believe, if the Knicks lose tonight and the Hawks win tomorrow, the Hawks will “move up” to the 2 seed in the East (by a 1/2 game).

http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html

High-sider

January 3rd, 2013
5:19 pm

Hawks, don’t let (Will) “Bynum-ite” “explode” for 30+ points (again).

High-sider

January 3rd, 2013
5:19 pm

Enter your comments here

doc

January 3rd, 2013
5:21 pm

-/+ is better utlized in groupings to see trends. just the same flagrant -’s and +’s over and over mean something.

korver would not have played if sloan and thibs thought he was a huge liability on the defensive end despite korver’s obvious shortcomings. they were sticklers for doing it right. he is not the greatest nor is he bibbyesque. he has done his job and the hawks as a team usually play good d outside of certain match up issues against some of the best. of course the best make everyone else look bad too.

Rev in Tampa

January 3rd, 2013
5:25 pm

AJ,

Thanks for the help on the previous blog regarding the +/-. I figured it was calculated by using Hollinger’s advanced stats plus that popcorn machine stuff that northcyde and vava are always talking about. It further confused me that it was updated and fluctuated so wildly within a quarter of the game.

I barely passed algebra II in high school and haven’t been able to help my children in math past fourth grade so I thought this +/- business was well past my abilities.

Buddy Grizzard

January 3rd, 2013
5:31 pm

“Buddy – RealGm website. Always been pretty reliable”

Could you post a direct link? I scanned around and didn’t see it. That’s huge if the Hawks are able to switch picks with BKN. There’s a very good chance the Hawks finish with the better record in both of those years and will have the opportunity to move up to BKN’s draft position if that’s true. C-Viv do you know anything about a provision of the Joe Johnson trade that will allow the Hawks to swap first round picks with BKN in TWO upcoming drafts?

The Truth

January 3rd, 2013
5:52 pm

I’m gonna rag Teague out if he lunch on defense again. The players he guards (Bynum or Stuckey) and even Brandon Knight (LoL) will become all-stars for sure if they saw enough of Teague in their schedule.

keith

January 3rd, 2013
6:02 pm

ANDRE DRUMMOND +GREG MONROE+ WILL BYNUM SHOULD = BIG LINE-UP

The 3 of them exploited our greatest areas of “Weakness”. “Dribble penetration” and defending the “Pick & Roll.” This would be a more “Pragmatic’ game to utilize the BIG LINE-UP???

HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE FOR THE “COACH OF THE MONTH” TO FIGURE THIS OUT?????

The Truth

January 3rd, 2013
6:29 pm

FTPB

“Their matchups are always tough for us because they are big and they are physical,” – LD

“They are a team that can hurt you in a number of ways, with their size, with their speed particularly their guards.” – LD

I want LD to stop that whining. He had a chance to add players with size (like Benson and/or James) for matchups like Detroit but instead he added another finesse long range shooter (as if they needed another). I remembered an occasion where he trivialized Benson and James size and defensive skills when describing their readiness. Apparently those attributes weren’t important to him then so why are they such fear-factors now?

The Hawks dodge a bullet the last outing with Detroit. If they should lose this time, don’t blame it on size. That argument is no longer available.

kojak

January 3rd, 2013
6:47 pm

How about Trading Josh for Kevin Love and a bag of headbands?
Love=High basketball IQ
Josh=big dummy

doc

January 3rd, 2013
7:00 pm

beer is cold

looking forward to a scrappy game

tyger

January 3rd, 2013
7:04 pm

Hawks’ New Year Review:

NBA recognizes LD as Coach of the Month…
In res ipsa locquitur…

Teague inconsistent, 27pts. then 1-12???…
Assist-TO ratio horrid…wonder why no extension?
PR campaign getting old…time to move on…

Lou has skill-set, upside to advance to next round…
Athletic scorer w/ handles, leadership, upside, clutch…
In class of Westbrook, Rose, Irving, Holiday, Parker…
Scoring PGs w reliable inside/out game…

K.Korver prime example of LD rehab program…
KK was on scrap heap – old, injury-prone, pigeon-holed…
Now better all-around…shoots, rebounds, defends, leads…
With proper maintainance good for 2/3 more years…

JJenkins cracks line-up, shows he belongs…
Better than Bradley Beal, Hawks get steal late…
Lou-Jenkins is future backcourt…get on with it…
Young, versatile, aggressive…develop chemistry now…

Horford is Horford…double-double at anytime…
The “Machine” is back, consistency is his game…
Ditto for ZaZa…misses too many layups, but warrior…
Hawks sorely miss low-post easy buckets…but partly
Due to an under usage of Horford-ZaZa on the block…

Smoove remains an enigma…on cusp of stardom…
Has all the physical tools to be a great player…but
Offensive inconsistency in half court, his personal nemesis…
Whether/When he can crack his glass ceiling is $MM question…
His Rodman-ish defense, open court play merits All-star selection…
Especially w/ Bynum/Stoudamire/Granger out, D.Howard gone…

Tolliver pleasant surprise…will come in handy later…
Ivan Johnson’s minutes inconsistent…but still Ivan…
Stevenson reminds me of Salim…undisciplined…
Devin Harris capable, but unable…bad dogs!!!
Morrow shoots but can’t defend…opportunity fleeting…
Johan Petro shows pulse…doubt you can trade a cadaver…

Summary:

Hawks have won 6/8 versus below .500 teams…
Six wins is six wins, no matter who they come against…
But long-term reality dictates winning versus above .500 teams…
Blow outs by Thunder, Rockets show shortcomings…

Is answer on the roster? Possibly…
Those were long athletic teams with handles…
Get bigger, play guys with better handles…

Big Ray

January 3rd, 2013
7:25 pm

Al Horford is horrible, yet Danny Ferry will get something good for him.

Yep, he’s back….

Al Horford will get something in trade because he IS worth something.

Josh Smith was awesome against the Hornets. Love to see him do that against GOOD teams. On a consistent basis. He’s the most talented Hawk. Should make the All-star team this year. Hope he can tune that average up to about 18 and 8…that’s the stats that skinny-azz Gerald Wallace had when HE made the all-star team a couple/few years ago.

But we’ll see.

Big Ray

January 3rd, 2013
7:31 pm

I think one reason why Josh is not averaging the double-double that his talent says he’s capable of s too much fading to the perimeter on offense.

I’ll blame a chunk of that on LD.

Of course, I’m sure it’s Horford’s fault. I hear Josh is responsible for making Horford good in college, too….

Slimjr

January 3rd, 2013
7:31 pm

GSW @ 22-10 in the superior Western Conference as a 5th seed is proving to be the real deal after clipping the Clippers last night by 11!

Mark Jackson is on course to win COY!! Mark is some leader!

Slimjr

January 3rd, 2013
7:40 pm

To give you an idea how good the Western Conference is, the Houston Rockets are feasting on Eastern Conference foes @ 11-2 yet they are only 18-14 overall and are just a 6th seed. Wow…..

Eastern Conference= a mirage

Big Ray

January 3rd, 2013
7:43 pm

Tell you what, though.

The way Zaza has been playing…we could trade Al for a talented wing player, preferably one that is more SF oriented than SG oriented….we’d be fine with

Zaza – Center
Josh – PF
New Guy – SF
Lou/Korver – SG
Teague – PG

But in such a trade, I’d also want us to get another viable backup center. Or at least go sign one off the scrap heap. Damn near anything is better than Petro, who I hope never plays a single game in a Hawks uniform ever again.

Zaza isn’t my ideal starting center, but he’s been one hell of a rebounder and tough guy for us. Can’t block shots or defend the rim the way you’d like. But we’d be lost without him in a number of ways. Dude has the highest “rebounds per 40 minutes” of anybody on the team. Really appreciate his game this year, more than ever.

But I would not be surprised if we need him as a starter for a while…either after this trade deadline or possibly next season.

Even though a trade isn’t necessary (due to cap space) for this team to add more talent, it is just about necessary to get better balance and be a true contender for the Eastern Conference Finals.

We’re still not in the League of teams like Miami. Lack the historic cohesion of Boston (which they seem to have lost to some degree this season…maybe they’re just old like the Lakers). Not as talented with scoring as the Knicks.

Need something for sure. But might have to wait until summer to get it.

Slimjr

January 3rd, 2013
7:45 pm

OB, if MV7 ends up with Andy Reid in Kansas City, Vick will probably retire by the end of next season due to injuries sustained over the past two seasons with Andy…

Melo going for 45 again?

Big Ray

January 3rd, 2013
7:49 pm

Slimjr ,

Yeah, the West is definitely back.

Only Miami has what it takes to beat any of the Western Teams.

I thought Indiana might make a leap, and the Knicks have serious talent…but they have issues that just won’t go away, and a HC that I never saw taking ANY team to the last dance.

But Indy seems worse than last year so far. Hibbert will never be better than he was last year, I’m afraid…and that’s at the heart of most of it. They aren’t great a PG, either. Granger is a scorer, not a leader.

Boston is too old. Chicago doesn’t have Rose, and there is no absolute guarantee that he returns to world-beating form..particularly not this season.

Brooklyn is the biggest joke/mirage…if you ask me. Even I thought they could challenge Miami for the East. Instead, Avery gets fired, Deron is not showing that he’s a top 3 pg…or even a top 5 pg. Joe is Joe. Doing even less than he did here. Brook Lopez leads the team in scoring (but is a bit of a punk).

Wow…can they recoup? I figured they had more overall talent than the Knicks…

JaeEvolution

January 3rd, 2013
8:06 pm

“Could you post a direct link? I scanned around and didn’t see it. That’s huge if the Hawks are able to switch picks with BKN. There’s a very good chance the Hawks finish with the better record in both of those years and will have the opportunity to move up to BKN’s draft position if that’s true. C-Viv do you know anything about a provision of the Joe Johnson trade that will allow the Hawks to swap first round picks with BKN in TWO upcoming drafts?”

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/summary/2014

“Own or to BKN (ATL can swap ATL for BKN); may have HOU via BKN (1-14 Protected) If not already settled; may have BKN (ATL can swap ATL for BKN)”

Big Ray

January 3rd, 2013
8:07 pm

Judging by the voting, if Smith gets into the ASG, he does so as a reserve. Horford ain’t gonna make it at all, especially under the new rules. No chance whatsoever.

What’s disgusting is that Chris Bosh isn’t doing any more than Josh Smith. 18 ppg, 7.7 rpg. Less rebounds, and basically a single ppg more. But he’s on the Heat squad and is a multiple-time allstar, plus we all know this is a damn popularity contest.

Tyson Chandler, are you f-in’ kidding me? 12 ppg and 10 rpg…blocks less than 1 shot per game (Yeah, that’s gotta kill all the “real center” types who think he is so damn awesome). Why does he deserve a nod?

Joakim Noah has very similar scoring and rebounding stats, but at least he averages more than 2 blocks per game and also dishes out more assists (4.4) than either Smith or Horford, not to mention 1.4 steals per game. His claim is more legit than Chandler’s any day.

Come to think of it, if it weren’t for the scoring, you could say Noah is as good or better a stat-stuffer than Josh Smith…hmmmmm…that really is saying something. What’s scary is Noah is shooting free throws WAY better…

Garnett is a legend…and so he continues to get the votes from rabid Boston fans, idiots, and sports pundits (if you think they don’t vote on their own time on their own computers, you’re crazy). And you know it’s true because his numbers are now down to the best Marvin Williams was ever able to put up (actually, slightly better still, ha ha) – 14 ppg and 7 rpg.

Pierce gets in because he still is putting up almost 20 ppg. Aging more gracefully than Joe Johnson, that’s for certain…

Carmelo and Lebron – starters. Period.

keith

January 3rd, 2013
8:08 pm

“JOSH SMITH MUST GO” TEMPLATE TO BUILDING THIS TEAM!!!

Josh Smith has peaked… This is as good as it will ever be with Josh…Time to permanently move Al Horford to the “4″ position, where he is most comfortable.

Al Horford is our “HORACE GRANT”. He is better basketball player that Horace Grant. I have all the confidence in the world that once Josh leaves, Al’s game will Blossom.

Zaza Paculia is probably a better basketball player than say “Luc Longley” or Bill Wennington.
We need to upgrade here with a shot blocker…

Kyle Korver is an adequate “3″ . He can play Champioship Basketball. Korver is MVP right now..

Lou Will is an excellent “short-term” answer at the “2″. However, We need a “Ginobli, D. Wade, Melo type” to play at the 2. Someone who can get to the free throw line and take the game over.
We do not have that right now…

PG-Jeff Teague is adequate with room to grow??? Could use more confidence from our starting “1″. Lou Will may grow into the “Perfect Point.”

tyger

January 3rd, 2013
8:14 pm

Hawks until trade deadline:

Lou D. Harris Teague
Jenkins Morrow Stevenson
Korver Tolliver Scott
Smith Ivan Petro
Horford
ZaZa

showcase Harris, Morrow…
Teague, Stevenson known commodities…
It’s going down February 21st…

Slimjr

January 3rd, 2013
8:17 pm

Al would help his team tremendously if he would start drawing fouls in the post..

Josh and Al are liabilities in the post and it is putting to much pressure on the guards to make shots from the perimeter..

An unbalanced team can only go so far.. How far? It depends on the match-ups but this will haunt them in the playoffs.. Playoffs?

Big Ray

January 3rd, 2013
8:18 pm

I dont think he ever leaves… he just knows that this is a Al Horford Fan Club of a blog Page and they hate Josh, who is better than Al because they share the same position and ultimately the hawks need a center, Which means either Josh is going to remain the power forward and we trade Al or the reverse…. lets not kid ourselves. TS comes and goes at will. He just know what to expect on this “controlled blogosphere”.

Well, we’ve had our fun and our differences over the years, but all good things come to an end. Some not-so-good things, as well. Truth is, I think Horford WILL be traded. And I also think it took a season without Joe to reveal which guy is the keeper.

Nah. I think both players are revealing who they will be. Some folks will always hate Josh or rag on him every time he makes a mistake.

The truth is, he’s playing better han he ever has. Hating on him is silly. I think hating on Horford is silly too, he is what he is. Not a bad player by any means, but not the best on the team and not going to get any better really.

Horford has indeed backed off some on the defensive end. Gone is the guy who helped “bring it” to the Celtics in the 2008 playoffs. I had hoped that rugged guy would return…but he hasn’t. Does he block some shots? Yeah. Does he rebound? Yeah. But he just IS NOT rugged like he once was.

With Joe Johnson gone, it became clear that both guys could get better.

I think that the keeper has been revealed. It’s Josh.

Al has stepped up on offense, but not stepped up at his position. The guy who actually stepped up at Center was none other than Zaza…

I’d trade Horford for a very talented wing player or at least a scoring/rebounding wing and a decently rugged big guy to split time at center with Zaza.

I still think we’re going to have a hell of a time getting one of the better “more pure Center” types on our roster. We have the money, but how do you get such a guy?

Considering how thing are going in Laker-land…we may still have a shot at Dwight.

But one wonders if he’ll get his head screwed on straight…or is it just that hard to play with Kobe (and in D’Antoni’s system)?

Slimjr

January 3rd, 2013
8:20 pm

Detroit will dribble penetrate the Hawks to death.. Good luck with the interior help defense..

More than likely the escort service will be fully operational..

Slimjr

January 3rd, 2013
8:25 pm

“Horford has indeed backed off some on the defensive end. Gone is the guy who helped “bring it” to the Celtics in the 2008 playoffs. I had hoped that rugged guy would return…but he hasn’t. Does he block some shots? Yeah. Does he rebound? Yeah. But he just IS NOT rugged like he once was.

With Joe Johnson gone, it became clear that both guys could get better.

I think that the keeper has been revealed. It’s Josh.

Al has stepped up on offense, but not stepped up at his position. The guy who actually stepped up at Center was none other than Zaza…

I’d trade Horford for a very talented wing player or at least a scoring/rebounding wing and a decently rugged big guy to split time at center with Zaza.” -Big Ray-

B Ray stepping up.

Fair warning, get your shields ready!

Big Ray

January 3rd, 2013
8:30 pm

Slimjr ,

Well, that all starts with reliable, consistent post game moves…like 2 or 3 of them. Al will be drawing fouls only when he attacks the basket quickly by taking same size or bigger guys off the dribble. He has next to no post game….

Slimjr

January 3rd, 2013
8:30 pm

Knicks up on the Spurs near the end of the 1st half!

They are out rebounding the Spurs by 9! Huge..
They are shooting 53.3% from 3 pt land..

Big Ray

January 3rd, 2013
8:35 pm

Keith ,

That’s one side of the argument, I’ll grant you that.

But what about Al’s game makes you think he’ll suddenly “blossom” with Josh gone? Right now, both guys get a good deal of their assists by passing to each other.

I can’t count how many times I’ve seen Josh through alley oops to Al….just sayin’.

The problem I have with your argument (your argument, not YOU as a person) is that his offensive game does not suggest he’s going to become an 18-20 ppg scorer.

Could he be good as a PF? Yes, I believe so. But he doesn’t defend stretch 4s well. Can he shut down Bosh? Hell no. Bosh will eat him alive at that position because Al can’t defend him the way Josh can. Josh can follow Bosh to the perimeter, Al gets roasted out there (he’s not that kind of defender, truthfully). But guess what? That’s what you have to do to beat Miami.

Again…with little or no post game, Al has to beat the 4s in this League with speed. Many of them are as quick as he is, so that advantage is lost unless he develops a post game . He hasn’t, and he’s not NEAR the straight up defender or help defender that Josh is.

So again….what are you seeing that supports your argument? I’m not playing devil’s advocate here…I really want to know your thoughts.

Big Ray

January 3rd, 2013
8:42 pm

Slimjr ,

Well you’re right…unless Jeff Teague wakes his “dog” up. I hate when he slacks off defensively. Defense always starts with the PG.

As for the Pistons…bad matchup for us. Why? Horford is every bit as strong and thick as many of the Pistons “bigs” but there is a major matchup problem – Greg Monroe.

He’s taller, every bit as quick, and has smoother game than Horford.

Horford kicked his can last time…but it was really Josh who turned that game on it’s head. He had some help from Teague, Lou, and Morrow of course.

But it was Josh.

And that’s why he’s the keeper. He’s the game changer. Horford isn’t.

doc

January 3rd, 2013
8:50 pm

good tv on nbatv

the bird legacy

i forgot how much a magician he is. i stil remember how he stole one from the hawks in 80. something else.

he really must laugh at salaries for pretenders.

Rev in Tampa

January 3rd, 2013
9:13 pm

Big Ray,

I’m really enjoying your analysis.

Slimjr,

I really hope your Knicks go down tonight. Looking forward to seeing Hawks in 2nd in the East.

Slimjr

January 3rd, 2013
9:23 pm

Hahaha @ Rev.

Yea Rev the Knicks are going to earn this one tonight..The Spurs have the best road record in the NBA, also they are red hot winners of 7 in a row!

Big Ray is on FIRE!

Slimjr

January 3rd, 2013
9:30 pm

Rev, I look forward to one of his [Fan Club] members rebuttal..lol!

BTW, THE KNICKS ARE PULLING AWAY! UP 77-60 early in the 4th Qtr!

Chandler dunked in Duncan’s grill and then patted said dude on his behind for trying to block the dunk! Hahaha

Rev in Tampa

January 3rd, 2013
9:37 pm

Congrats to you, Slimjr.

Dang it!

High-sider

January 3rd, 2013
9:40 pm

I want the Hawks to get the 1 seed (in the East) so “Long-term Deal” (LD) can coach the 2013 Eastern Conference All-Star Team. Josh (Smith) should surely make the All-Star Team if that happens.

Slimjr

January 3rd, 2013
9:41 pm

Rev, congrats to Coach Woodson if he can pull out a tough win against one of the elites in this League..

I’m just a spectator…lol.. But thanks anyway Sir..

Slimjr

January 3rd, 2013
9:46 pm

Knicks putting a can of whip azz on the Spurs. They are leading 98-76 with 2:34 left in the game..Nice…

Slimjr

January 3rd, 2013
10:01 pm

doc,

JR Smith went 9-17, 1-6[3 pt] for 20 pts…He was +27.. Almost took 20 shots?

doc

January 3rd, 2013
10:16 pm

careful slim

pop your bubble

knicks 2 games in 6 days

old spurs 4 games in 5 days

see anything revealing there?

pops treatened to send his guys home early but probably didnt want another fine of a quarter mil.

only thing against fatigue is they had blown out the previous 3 and old folks got to their rocking chairs after 30 mpg

careful is all i am saying. jr is going to a new level.

doc

January 3rd, 2013
10:19 pm

who woke up the sleeping tiger?

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
10:29 pm

Buddy – I don’t know how to post a link from my ipad. I tried, but it didn’t work. If you google something like “2013 nba draft picks by team”, besides the normal draft stuff, that should come up. I’ll try to help some more later if you can’t find it. I’ve used the site extensively in the past, and always been spot on in regards to the draft picks owed and received for each team well into the future. 2018 at least

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
10:31 pm

“NBA draft picks owed”. Is what I just googled for it to come up Buddy

doc

January 3rd, 2013
10:32 pm

big ray:

“Of course, I’m sure it’s Horford’s fault. I hear Josh is responsible for making Horford good in college, too….”

classic

O'brien

January 3rd, 2013
10:38 pm

Big Ray,

what if hawks trade Horford for granger and a pick at the end of the season?

Why would Indy do it? david West will be a free agent, and pacers may prefer the younger Horford who is signed to a reasonable contract. They can play him at PF with Hibbert at center, and he can also spell Hibbert at Center at times. Plus they have Paul George to take over at SF.

Why would Hawks do it? Although Granger is soft at times, he is a legit SF who can score. Plus he would only have one year left on his deal, so hawks could re-sign him if he plays well, or let him go for more salary cap flexibility one season later. And we would get a pick to even it out.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
10:40 pm

Big Ray – You got Jefferson, Hickson and Dwight as FA’s at C. Jefferson is declining, I’m scared away from him unless its a deal. Dalembart is a fa also I think. Millsap at Pf if you wanted to keep al at c. Have josh and Millsap as Fs. But millsaps been down this season also.

doc

January 3rd, 2013
10:41 pm

after reading the 7:43 br, i think we may have staying power. one injury to the heat or knicks and we stay healthy we can get beat down in the finals. heh heh

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
10:42 pm

West is getting old and has a bad knee. I wouldn’t get him for over 1 or 2 years, and on the cheap 8m per year or something.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
10:42 pm

Pacers demise has been no granger and hibberts collapse

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
10:54 pm

Big Ray – Chandler gets considered because: he’s from the biggest tv market in the east, he’s reigning dpoy, and if the knicks maintain the 2 seed, alot of folks will think they deserve a 2nd player, especially if the heat have 3, which is likely.

Deron, jj, or Lopez probably make it for the tv market as well, especially if they’re a 6th seed or higher.

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
10:57 pm

Unless Chicagos winning % changes significantly, they probably get either Deng or Noah, but probably not both.

Al gets consideration because he is considered to be a great role model, and image matters to the nba. So if he’s close, like 17 and 10 with quite a few assists, he’s in

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
10:58 pm

And it Garnett gets in its a travesty. He’s not playing at an all star level. Pierce and rondo are, but no Garnett this season unless they go on a tear

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
10:59 pm

Enter your comments here oath and josh should be in over garnett

Slimjr

January 3rd, 2013
11:00 pm

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
10:42 pm

“Pacers demise has been no granger and hibberts collapse”

The analogy to the Pacers would be the loss of Josh for the Hawks..

Oh the Humanity…

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
11:01 pm

Noah and josh should be in over Garnett. And either David west or George gets in because of the pacers record, unless it changes dramatically.

Jrues gotta be in for the sixers. Varejo and Irving are out because of injuries and the Cavs record

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
11:06 pm

I think horfords in right now. 5th in rebounding in the east. Vucevic and varejo I think are out. The 2 ahead of horford after that are chandler and Noah.

I think Al’s. in barring a collapse. Averaging 18.8 and 8.6 his last 5 games, with 3 – 20+ pt efforts

High-sider

January 3rd, 2013
11:09 pm

@Big Ray

“The way Zaza has been playing…we could trade Al for a talented wing player, preferably one that is more SF oriented than SG oriented….we’d be fine with

Zaza – Center
Josh – PF
New Guy – SF
Lou/Korver – SG
Teague – PG

But in such a trade, I’d also want us to get another viable backup center. Or at least go sign one off the scrap heap. Damn near anything is better than Petro, who I hope never plays a single game in a Hawks uniform ever again.” – Big Ray @7:43pm, 01/03/2012

Here’s a trade scenario/proposal for you. I just replaced Al Horford for Josh Smith in this particular trade (proposal). This trade proposal in the link provided below is for the Al Horford haters (like yourself) and the previous trade proposal was for the Josh Smith haters like W.R. Terrell (LOL). This trade proposal “nets” the Hawks a viable/decent SF and C and “unloads” (Johan) Petro.

The trade proposal between the Hawks and the Wizards is as follows:

Hawks get Emeka Okafor (C), Trevor Ariza (SF) and A.J. Price (PG).

Wizards get Al Horford (C/PF), Devin Harris (PG) and Johan Petro (C).

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a9ggvej

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
11:12 pm

Slim – that’s right. I think the pacers have done great w/o arguably their best player. You could make a case for west or George also. George had been tearing it up lately. Good player

SteveW

January 3rd, 2013
11:14 pm

HS – I don’t do that trade because emeka and Ariza appear on their last legs.

Melvin

January 3rd, 2013
11:18 pm

My gosh, Dwight comments about the Lakers defensive woes may have some merit. Just look at what Amare said below. Now who was his coach the majority of his career?

“Just having a defensive coach for the first time in my career is going to help,” Stoudemire said. “I’ve never been taught defense in my whole career. To now have a coach that actually teaches defense and teaches strategies and knows positioning and posture and how to guard different plays is going to be helpful. I’m going to take it as a challenge, accept the challenge and try to improve as a player.”

Melvin

January 3rd, 2013
11:43 pm

H.S.,

You just threw away the Hawks salary flexbility for Okafor and Ariza. Let alone traded away a 26yr old 2 time All Star to do it…. No thank you…

Grandad

January 3rd, 2013
11:51 pm

Big Ray

All points you made were not only valid but absolutely correct.
However;
most of your points were made on looking at individual
talent and production. [Josh v Al]

Which is why the (+/-) stat is such a valuable tool.
*[used within five man combinations]
It gives a reading on how the Team is functioning;
“one” with four others.

I say none of this to counter your argument.
If anything, I`m confounded at the lack of integration of Za
into the first rotation more often:
(playing alongside Al, Josh, Korv,) with lou or Teague.

Nonetheless;
I`m still concerned about Al`s intrinsic value being more important
due to Josh and his “meat-headed-ness”.
Example:
JoeJohnson is a better player than KyleKorver,
-Yet-
our Hawks display a better ‘`Team`’ with KK than JJ.

Yes Al has devolved from younger “Boss” Al; circa 2008 v Celts;
also Josh has most likely plateaued.

Nevertheless and also, neither is a:
*number 1 option on a Championship team
*a fierce leader in the mold of Kobe, KG, or even “Zeke” [Pistons]
*neither [really] sell tickets

The Big difference is Al is signed to a [relative] modest contract,
while josh and his contract is a wild card whether (keep) -or- (trade).
Plus;
which could return the most value in a trade ?

Lastly;
I return as always to Team benefits and value over
individual talent when not properly applied;
e.g.; failure to realize one`s limitations; i.e.; Josh launching “threes”.

Big Ray

January 4th, 2013
12:02 am

SteveW ,

Interesting thoughts. I hear you on Al Jefferson. He’s just not the same. Still a 17 and 10 guy if nothing else, but can’t keep up with this team (foot speed), and isn’t much of a rim defender. Gets in the way decently, but hell Zaza does that .

JJ Hickson strikes me as a PF….and not a particularly strong one. Has some skills, though, as we well know.

Dalembert is a two-trick pony, but he has the two tricks we need – rim defense and rebounding. Wouldn’t pay him a whole lot. But he could platoon with Zaza.

Do you see a froncourt of Milsap/Horford/Smith working? Milsap brings the rebounding and some inside game (not a lot, but enough). But it puts Smith at the 3 full time and that diminishes his game.

Big Ray

January 4th, 2013
12:02 am

Doc ,

Old times, eh?

Big Ray

January 4th, 2013
12:04 am

SteveW ,

Yeah, that’s why I said it’s a popularity contest. Chandler never had a shot at the same thing in Dallas…hence the hypocrisy of it all.

High-sider

January 4th, 2013
12:12 am

SteveW and Melvin,

I wasn’t serious about the above trade proposal. That trade (proposal) was something “to whet Big Ray’s appetite” for moving Al Horford. (It was a jokey-joke.)

doc

January 4th, 2013
12:18 am

yeah bro. nfl winding down?

thank goodness we now know that the burner is ready and he has been playing opposum all season waiting to turn it on now.

looked back at andre miller’s past. man, he is a real work horse. he played over 80 games in 12 straight seasons. iron man has a double indeed. feel he is very under rated.

doc

January 4th, 2013
12:20 am

big ray, ill keep both unless something definite comes across. any more 33’s out there coming out of college to blend in with these guys like bird did with parrish and mchale? great tribute on nba tonight.

Big Ray

January 4th, 2013
12:21 am

High-Sider ,

1) I’m not a Horford hater, but I’ll assume you’re just pickin’ at me for fun.

2) Emeka Okafor hasn’t made anybody better in a long time. Have you seen his current stats? He hasn’t been a double-double guy since ‘09 and has been going down in production since before that. Better defender than Al? I’d say so.

3) Ariza is a legit SF, but also a has-been. Probably still defends well (I hope) but can’t shoot worth a sh!t.

4) AJ Price? What do we need with another pg the same size as Teague who also can’t shoot?

Price may improve, but the other two are in decline. Okafor himself won’t get us any closer to the Eastern Finals. But I’d take him if we were getting a better SF in the mix.

Big Ray

January 4th, 2013
12:22 am

High-Sider ,

Damn. Now here you go jerking my chain…..

Big Ray

January 4th, 2013
12:24 am

Doc ,

I’m so sick of Michael Turner. And Mike Smith, to be honest. Steep learning curve, that one….

Big Ray

January 4th, 2013
12:42 am

Grandad ,

All great points.

Does Josh bring back more in value? Depends on who is trading for him and what they have. Hawks front office personnel in the past (translation: ownership) has been quite stupid about both Horford and Smith, refusing to trade either unless it was clearly and stupidly lopsided. Of course, if they wanted to hang onto both to see if something could be made of them, they should have hired a better head coach, but I digress….stupid is as stupid does (Michael Gearon).

That said, you’re dead on about neither Josh nor Al being the fierce leader you have to have to really go somewhere. Then again…is Lebron that “fierce” guy? Nope, but he’s a transcendant, supreme talent.

One thing Josh brings is passion. Agreed on the meat-headedness…he still has it. Less so than before, of course. He’s still a game-changer and X-factor. Can he ever be totally under control for a full game? Could he learn better decision-making? Yes, and no. The fact that he’s this far into his career and yet we still read articles about him and Drew “discussing” shot selection….points to one of two (or maybe both) things – First, Josh still isn’t there yet and may never get there. Second, this brings up the age-old question….could Josh be that much better (and that much more under control) under a better coach? Who knows.

Could Josh bring back that much more in trade? Maybe. But again – that depends on who you’re trading him to. A team will have to believe that they can take him and mold him into the kind of player that changes games for them without the spurts of…well, you know….

The best thing I can say is either find a way to add the more dynamic SF to the mix or trade one of these guys.

I get the whole team concept. But if you hire a better coach, maybe you can gamble with Josh better than you can “run with what you brung” in Horford.

I agree that the contract situations must be considered.

We’ll see what happens.

Big Ray

January 4th, 2013
12:45 am

Will say this – we can’t afford to pay Josh an outlandish contract. Even if his ceiling is 17 and 8. He does a lot for us but we can’t pay him like he’s taking us to the ECF.

Who knows what’s cooking in Ferry’s noodle.

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
12:49 am

Big ray – When you have two tweeners in the frontcourt, pretty much nothing we do is going to be ideal. Millsap in the frontcourt is not ideal, but if we get d12, we still got josh at sf and al at Pf. And I don’t think df gets rid of al. Tim Duncan lite. Real lite. But personality wise, off court no issues, publicists dream with public relations etc.

I think we can win with both, and with Teague. Nobody on the current roster is the problem, if utilized in a role correctly. The problem is we are 2 above average starters away from contending for a ’ship. Like add Monta and Hickson to what we got, and we’re a handful for any team. Possible this fa period.

Maybe even Millsap and Monta. Tony Allen, I’m not sure what he brings anymore. Good ball player, but aging. I like him alot as a bb player, but does he help get you a ’ship?

Who knows, we may get cp3 and Dwight, re-sign zaza and josh and just pay the tax

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
12:53 am

Df – I’ve just got this feeling, Danny being the aggressive gm that he is, he goes after anchor Jefferson if we miss on Dwight. That’s ok, but again Jefferson seems to be slipping a bit to me. Definitely help in the halfcourt game however, and may teach al a few post moves.

Sameba

January 4th, 2013
1:38 am

Grandad
January 3rd, 2013
11:51 pm

…However;
most of your points were made on looking at individual
talent and production. [Josh v Al]

Which is why the (+/-) stat is such a valuable tool.
*[used within five man combinations]
It gives a reading on how the Team is functioning;
“one” with four others.
—————————————————————————————————-

Grandad, while all that you say is correct, it is only valid if one considers the current roster. However, are we sure that all stays the same? I doubt it very much. In fact, it is very likely that at least about 1/3 of the players from the present roster will not be Hawks next year. They can be traded, or simply not re-signed. Thus, in such a situation, the common sense suggests we re-sign the best players (judging from individual talent) from the current roster…

Sameba

January 4th, 2013
1:47 am

Example: DF signs D.Howard next Summer. How do we know who (Josh or Horford) plays better with him? Also we may trade Teague for some other PG, e.g. CP3. Who will play better with him & Howard, Josh or Horford? In such a situation, I would want to resign the best overall player, who I believe is Josh (a game changer).

Sameba

January 4th, 2013
1:49 am

I am not against Horford of course, I would keep him as well if possible, but I doubt it.

Please Answer This

January 4th, 2013
1:52 am

Let’s play a game of “I’m the other teams coach”. Shall we? And I’m playing against theHawks.

My Game plan:

Play Horford for the mid-range jumper and live with any randon (weak-ars) post move success.

Allow Teague to drive and simply send a big to either swat his shot of cause a miss.

Always stay home on Korver.

Allow Josh to win the game for ME (especially in the closing seconds) by tempting him to try to gain respect. (Note: This also also works well throughout the rest of the game also)

Check the guards heavilly on any Hawks defensive rebound to insure that Josh and Al will hand me turnover after turnover by trying to dribble or pass while dribbling.

Get Zaza out of the game ASAP with foul trouble. His effectiveness diminishes drastically when his minutes are limited. Otherwise he is a real problem for opposing teams.

This may not be possible every game. But a cinch in a 7-game series.

2 FOR JOHN DREW

January 4th, 2013
1:59 am

Don’t stop you guys ….. This is great stuff !!!

Sameba

January 4th, 2013
2:05 am

Please Answer This

…Get Zaza out of the game ASAP with foul trouble. His effectiveness diminishes drastically when his minutes are limited. Otherwise he is a real problem for opposing teams…
—————————————————————————————————————————–

Exactly! Mr. L.Drew should read this!!

Najeh Davenpoop

January 4th, 2013
2:24 am

“if MV7 ends up with Andy Reid in Kansas City, Vick will probably retire by the end of next season due to injuries sustained over the past two seasons with Andy…”

Let’s face it, though, it’s not like he has a ton of options. KC, the Jets, Arizona, Jacksonville, Buffalo, Cleveland… out of that mess, KC is probably his best bet. Five Pro Bowlers on that team and the offensive line isn’t horrible. I’d like to see him in Minnesota but that’s a bit of a long shot.

Najeh Davenpoop

January 4th, 2013
2:33 am

“what if hawks trade Horford for granger and a pick at the end of the season?”

I posted about this both here and on Peachtree Hoops about a year ago and mostly got negative responses. One year later, with Granger out with a long term injury, Al still going strong, and the Hawks’ team situation very different with Joe gone, that trade would be much worse for the Hawks now. I thought it would have made sense in a world where Joe was still a Hawk, but I don’t think it’s necessary or makes the team better now that the offense is flowing well through the front court.

Najeh Davenpoop

January 4th, 2013
2:37 am

Still don’t know why so many people are so hell-bent on trading either Josh or Al, though. They play a lot better together than most fans give them credit for doing. If one of them is being traded for a clearly superior player who gets the Hawks closer to title contention, obviously do it. But I don’t see the point in trading either one for other limited players like Al Jefferson (who has never been past the first round of the playoffs) or, worse, washed up players like Emeka Okafor who are losing playing time on their own lottery teams.

Sameba

January 4th, 2013
3:09 am

If D.Howard does not want to play in Atlanta, he will not bring any good to the Hawks. Similarly, this concerns any other guys like CP3 etc… It is always better to go to the war with your own citizens, your sons, than with some mercenaries, whose only interest was money. Exampe is LAL who got great players but they play for themselves, not for LA. Josh belongs to Atlanta, that’s why he always plays with a big heart. I think the same can be said about a majority of the present guys on the roster. It would be painful for me to see them traded or not resigned.

Najeh Davenpoop

January 4th, 2013
3:50 am

Zach Lowe at Grantland has LD 3rd for Coach of the Year. From that article:

the Hawks have outscored opponents by a mammoth 10 points per 100 possessions over the 180-plus minutes in which Smith, Horford, and Zaza Pachulia have shared the floor, per NBA.com.

180 minutes is not nearly enough for that lineup. For all the good things LD has done this year, I’d like to see a lot more of the big lineup going forward.

Buddy Grizzard

January 4th, 2013
4:35 am

SteveW, JaeEvolution posted the link. Thanks all.. really interesting stuff I had no idea about. I think the Hawks end up being able to take advantage of that swap in both years.

“Noah’s claim is more legit than Chandler’s any day.”

Seen the standings lately?

vava74

January 4th, 2013
4:49 am

Man… This was one of the best Blog days in a while.

Made me remember the good old days of the Hawks’ Nest.

Great posts by everyone. Even Slimjr was under control!

I agree with most if not all that Big Ray said but the problem is what can be materialised under that proposition?

Which wing player and reliable banger to share minutes with Zaza?

And are we supposed to go to battle with just Josh’s post game?

And the fact is also that Josh and Al really meshed this year and they could even get better.

I think Josh is slowly – veeeery – slowing starting to get it and as he get more adept to attack the rim his fewer shots from outside are starting to have better form and flow.

We do need however to find a rabid dog to bite Al and Teague since their aggression levels are so up and down.

vava74

January 4th, 2013
5:00 am

Maybe LD is playing possum with the big line up

I just wish we could hire someone who LD accepted as his superior and worked as a special consultant.

Like Phil Jackson or Sloan and would only attend home games (and would be in contact over the phone on away games) but would give special input as a “sage”.

vava74

January 4th, 2013
6:10 am

Check this article on peachtreehoops:

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2013/1/3/3829076/josh-smith-and-al-horford-why-the-hawks-have-staying-power

vava74

January 4th, 2013
6:45 am

The article “tells” us some interesting things:

1. The obvious are that Josh is shooting like cr@p and that Horford is a very good shooter;
2. The news is that Al’s numbers are down from 2010/11 numbers, but climbing recently.
3. Al admits that close outs on him have increased and he had trouble dealing with that “but is now more assertive, hence improving his shot”.
4. Al’s numbers are better on the right block and Josh’s on the left block, which makes them complementary.

What I also inferred from the article and the shooting figures, is that Al’s numbers were down because he was starting at PF on the big line up since PF’s close on him faster (as many pointed that it would be the case) and now that LD has gone back to the big line up, Al is getting again the space to shoot more comfortably.

drmaryb.(""_*).

January 4th, 2013
7:43 am

Testing 1 2 3

O'Brien

January 4th, 2013
8:28 am

doc,

When Bibby was resigned for 3 years, $18 mil, I wanted us to go after Jarrett Jack, who eventually signed for 4 years, $20 mil. But as we all know, Management (at the time) enjoyed the status quo.

I’m just glad Rick decided to take on a lesser workload, because if he still wanted to be the GM, I think the ASG would have allowed him to stay….which means we would probably have been stuck with JJ.

Rick Sund’s best move as a Hawks GM was stepping away.

O'Brien

January 4th, 2013
8:30 am

Najeh,

The issue with keeping Josh and Al is that we need an upgrade at SF, and SG. But in free agency, I dont think there is much of an upgrade available at those positions, so it might be easier to fill by trading one, since Zaza can handle more minutes at Center, especially if we get him a solid backup.

vava74

January 4th, 2013
8:46 am

OB,

But the pertinent question is, the upgrade at SF can overcome losing a duo which seems to play well off each other as well as combined with Zaza?

IF, we could get someone at the SF slot which was a competent contributor and complementary to KK (a defender, slasher, athletic which could hit some shots) and a shot blocker to replace Petro, I think we could still be headed the right direction into having a good quality product (ECF).

I am also inclined to think that any trade involving Josh or Al MUST either bring us a SUPERSTAR (current or prospect) or allow us to sign one (both difficult propositions), since anything short of attempting that (getting a superstar) can only be replaced with massive tanking and huge luck at the draft.

vava74

January 4th, 2013
8:51 am

(getting a superstar VIA TRADE)

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
9:12 am

Sorry, I don;t see an upgraqde at SF as the missing piece for this team. If we traded Morrow and Petro for a healthy Wilson Chandler, are you telling me we’re in the ECF either this year or next year? Sorry, we’re ot one player away.

Rev in Tampa

January 4th, 2013
9:25 am

Slimjr., I should have known the fix was in.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/01/04/only-in-ny-spurs-jackson-trips-over-bloombergs-waitress-leaves-game/

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
9:25 am

How many teams regularly reach the conference finals with 1-2 possible All-Stars? Not certain, no-doubt-about-it, always-gets-selected-All Stars but 1-2 if-things-go-right-All-Stars? You my have a single season when that happens, but do we want Dany Ferry planning to get us there once?

O'Brien

January 4th, 2013
9:53 am

Some of the SF free agents this coming off season?

Al Harrington
Richard Jefferson
Dorell Wright
Chandler Parsons
Corey Brewer
Chase Budinger
CJ Miles
Corey Maggette
Dominic McGuire
Matt Barnes
Linas Kleiza
Omri Casspi
Tobias Harris
Devin Ebanks
Josh Childress
Al-Farouq Aminu
Sam Young
Francisco Garcia

AJ,

You’re right. We are not one player away.

vava,

In my world, we trade Al for a legit SF or a legit SG, and sign Dwight in free agency.

vava74

January 4th, 2013
9:57 am

AJ,

A balanced team with no superstars but a cohesive set up CAN reach the ECF on a given year.

I said “quality product”, not actual championship contender, not that ECF was a certainty, merely a possibility.

I still think that JJ-Josh-Al under quality coaching could have reached the ECF and by quality coaching I am not talking about the obvious X’s and O’s traits that LD shows, but the ability to mould certain players’ behaviour and guide them to perform better with their skill set.

ALL 3 guys could use a mental revamp and ALL 3 would produce substantially more under a Phil Jackson / Pop/ Doc / Sloan / (maybe Thibs) type of guidance.

vava74

January 4th, 2013
9:59 am

OB,

Howard will NEVER sign for the ATL.

It’s the opposite of what he wants. He wants the limelight and CERTAINLY does not want his mother looking over his shoulder to check if finished his milk and ate all his cookies.

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
10:20 am

vava, I understand your point. But history shows us that you need at least one constant All-Star type player to be a consistent conference finals team. So while a strong ensemble cast with a great coach sounds like it would work on a consistent bases, I think that there are few examples of that type of squad.

An upgrade at the wing position would greatly improve our odds of being a consistent 2nd round team. As currently constructed, would you say the Hawks have an 80%+ chance of winning a 7 game series against any of the teams currently in the 4-7 slot (especially if all teams are close to full health)? I don’t.

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings

Slimjr

January 4th, 2013
10:38 am

“In my world, we trade Al for a legit SF or a legit SG, and sign Dwight in free agency.”

Looks like Big Ray and OB ARE ON THE SAME PAGE..They are realists, not “Haters”.

Its been 46 years of failures. Enough already!

Mike is Back

January 4th, 2013
10:44 am

CV, I think the Hawks will face a different Piston team, than the one they beat in double OT. The Piston have won three straight since that loss to the Hawks…including a win over the Heat. The second unit of the Piston causes me the greatest concern.

After the Piston beat the Heat…they were talking about how disappointing the loss to the Hawks was…they are probably looking forward to this game.

I expect a tougher game in the rematch…If the Hawks come out with no energy to start the game…and the 3s aren’t falling…this one could get ugly!!

TIGHTEN UP THAT PERIMITER DEFENSE…GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ag

January 4th, 2013
11:03 am

The biggest problem with the Hawks is we just don’t have anyone who is consistent. Also, a quality wing is harder to find than a quality center. I still would like the Hawks to make some moves. I would like to trade with Minny to bring Derrick Williams to ATL, – and maybe trade Morrow and Stephenson.

doc

January 4th, 2013
11:07 am

Slimjr
January 4th, 2013
10:38 am

“In my world, we trade Al for a legit SF or a legit SG, and sign Dwight in free agency.”

Looks like Big Ray and OB ARE ON THE SAME PAGE..They are realists, not “Haters”.

Its been 46 years of failures. Enough already!

or we keep em both and sign chris paul.

of course the chances of getting howard or paul are about the same, somewhere between slim and none.

df dont listen to these guys and follow your heart to getting good basketball players that play well as a team and desire excellence more than notoriety. spurs way or nugget way. we arent going to run with the celt, heat, laker, knock, net, clip money. no chance at that so we gotta find a better way.

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
11:13 am

ag, at this point, “consistent” and Derrick Williams are terms that don’t go together.

Big Ray

January 4th, 2013
11:15 am

Buddy Grizzard ,

“Noah’s claim is more legit than Chandler’s any day.”

Seen the standings lately?

That’s why it’s called “opinion.”

Yeah, I’ve seen the standings.

I’ve also seen that Joakim Noah is doing his thing WITHOUT Derrick Rose.

And Chandler is doing his WITH a lot more talent (start with Melo and go from there).

I know what goes into the voting for the ASG. Noah is doing more individually, no matter how you slice it. But he won’t get there ahead of Chandler.

Big Ray

January 4th, 2013
11:18 am

SteveW ,

Good posts, good points. We are indeed two above-average starters away from where we want to be.

Don’t know if we can get them.

Najeh ,

Josh and Al do play well together most of the time (these days anyhow). We still need more talent. Certain talent, if you’re going to get it, requires trading one of these guys, I think. Again…I only think so, I don’t KNOW so.

I’ll trust Danny Ferry to do the right thing, though.

Rod from College Park

January 4th, 2013
11:19 am

I think the best move for the Hawks at the deadline is to go after a wing like Corey Magette. Swap Morrow or Korver (I would prefer to keep Korver) and get us a legit 3 who can defend, knock down the open 3 and ATTACK THE RIM. That is our best option at this time. Richard Jefferson would be another good option for this team. A guy who attacks the rim first, and gets to the line at a high rate would balance this particular team. There are not any centers except Dwight, and maybe Jefferson that would tremendously help this team. I also am a big fan of Derrick Favors. If Utah is not willing to give him more time anytime soon, I would consider trying to trade anyone on this roster besides Josh Smith to get him. He reminds me more of a young Tim Duncan and has the length, size and post moves to man the center spot for the next couple of years.

newkid

January 4th, 2013
11:38 am

C-Viv, pardon my asking, but what exactly is it about Devin Harris’ foot injury that demands such a seemingly long period of recovery? Can you provide some insight on his injury history at previous stops? Is he perhaps afflicted with ‘Speedy-itus’ (i.e., habitually fragile)? If so, how do you see this affliction affecting his trade value at the deadline?

thx

Slimjr

January 4th, 2013
11:43 am

Derrick Favors for Morrow, Devin and a 2nd rd pick?

Fascinating…

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
11:44 am

Rod, Jefferson and Millsap are both UFAs so Utah won’t likely trade Favors when they can go younger and cheaper with Favors and Kanter. Not to mention that neither Millsap or Jefferson are capable of leading that team to the 2nd round… so why continue to pay them big salaries?

Maggette is an expiring contract so we may have to offer more than just an exchange of expiring deals to acquire him. Richard Jefferson’s deal expires after the ‘13-14 year. Unless you’re trading Horford for him (a colossally bad trade for the Hawks), his acquisition would take away valuable cap space to go after an elite free agent.

This is a transition year… the biggest mistake Ferry could make is exchanging the summer’s cap space for a 2nd round playoff exit.

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
11:50 am

newkid, I suspect that Morrow doesn’t want to be traded and will be remarkably healthly after the trade deadline. It will be the ony way he gets a long-term free agent deal this summer. Devin, on the other hand, I think is just brittle. Too bad, I was beginning to warm up to the way he moved without the ball (although I hated to watch him as a starter).

keith

January 4th, 2013
11:56 am

Big Ray
January 3rd, 2013
8:35 pm

Josh Smith missed the Indiana game, albeit only 1 game, i saw a much different Basketball team. Everything, and i mean everything had a flow or rhythm to it. It was the 1st time this season that i saw the Atlanta Hawks play “pragamatic , common sense, team basketball.

There was no “Hero Ball.” Everyone played within their own “skill-set.” No one forced anything.
It also made med believe that Zaza can be a starter in this league………

JOSH SMITH..is a TREMENDOUS talent, however, i do not think he is the right fit for this Basketball team going forward!!!

JOSH SMITH = DENNIS RODMAN…..Josh would be the 4th or 5th option on my Basketball
team… DENNIS RODMAN was smart enough to know his role and play to his strengths!!!

keith

January 4th, 2013
12:01 pm

Slimjr
January 4th, 2013
11:43 am

Derrick Favors for Morrow, Devin and a 2nd rd pick?

Fascinating…

GREAT IDEA….Would the Utah Jazz be willing to take Devin back??? Derrick Favors can probably play the 3,4, and 5 positions on any Basketball Team!!!

I watched Favors play several nights ago, and concluded that he is one guy in this league, besides Melo, who can give LEBRON problems without help?

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
12:10 pm

I think a more reasonable hope/expectation is that we keep a least one roster slot open and when lottery bound teams start buying out vets, we can sign someone from that list. I’m thinking about Martell Webster.

Just don’t expect Ferry to use cap space for a marginal upgrade at SF.

And stop with the Favors nonsense.

Rod from College Park

January 4th, 2013
12:12 pm

Astro Joe,

I’m not one who cares about cap space. If we are not getting Dwight or Chris Paul cap space means nothing. Dwight is still an option, Chris Paul is not. Bottom line is Josh and Al(to a certain extent) are second teir stars in this league. Only a handful of guys in the league better than them. Most of them are not available, and if they are available they are older guys. If we can’t get Dwight, cap space means zilch. We will have to resign Teague, Re-up Josh, resign the Korvers…. and cap space is gone again, and we are in the same situation. Help me understand what elite free agents you are talking about? The mistake you are making is continuing to say this is a transition year, If we are in the top three seeds at the break, the transition stuff should go out the window, and competing for a title should be the main goal.

“Rod, Jefferson and Millsap are both UFAs so Utah won’t likely trade Favors when they can go younger and cheaper with Favors and Kanter. Not to mention that neither Millsap or Jefferson are capable of leading that team to the 2nd round… so why continue to pay them big salaries?”

Same reason the Hawks pay Al and Josh big salaries, same reason Boston pays Rondo, Garnett and Pierce big salaries, same reason Kobe,Gasol and Dwight, same reason, Melo, Chandler, same reason Rose, Deng, and Noah get big salaries……. Somebody has to pay you, and everyone in the league can’t win the championship.

The Truth

January 4th, 2013
12:24 pm

While all of the chatter on this blog seem to continue to be whether DF should trade trade Josh or Al to upgrade, the real under the radar trade may end up being Jeff Teague.

“I mean we tried but you know it didn’t work out,” Teague told HOOPSWORLD. “[The numbers] didn’t match up. But you know it’s a little more motivation to go out there and try to prove to them that I deserve the things I was looking for and try to make the best of it.”

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-sunday-teague-motivated-by-contract-snub/

If JT falls short of expectation per LD’s input (being how he likes PG so much), DF may feel compel to upgrade here first then pay Josh and then acquire a Sf. I’m noticing how Lou is emerging as a possibility to be the Alpha Dog at PG. If that plays out, Teague could become a trade chip.

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
12:30 pm

Derrick favors and enes kanter remain untouchable according to hoopshype rumors. They post about it periodically. With Jefferson and Millsap ufa after this season, no doubt that’s why.

If we could get favors, he is in fact the man that has the potential to greatly help us.

OB – thanks for depressing me with that list of fa sfs.

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
12:31 pm

I’m not sure why we can’t start ZaZa at c and Lou at sg. Bring kk off the bench

cdog

January 4th, 2013
12:32 pm

the hawks will be undefeated this weekend if they attack the inside first, limit za za pachulia minutes on floor, play defense smart and intensely, move their feet on defense, box out which pachulia won’t.keep kyle korver outside and josh smith and al hortford establish themselves inside and on defense.don’t rely on three pointers so much.use bench especially john jenkins, tolliver, and devin harris if hes available. jeff terague play hard and smart on both end and limit his dribbling too much.lets win hawks

Slimjr

January 4th, 2013
12:32 pm

” The mistake you are making is continuing to say this is a transition year, If we are in the top three seeds at the break, the transition stuff should go out the window, and competing for a title should be the main goal.”

Bells Ringing 3x’s!!!!! Bingo..

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
12:35 pm

Rod, aren’t you the one who always says the Hawks are losers because they don’t win the title? Aren’t you the one who believes Atlanta fans are to soft because we accept something less than the golden trophy? So it is bad for a team to lose but it is okay for players to get paid for non-winning results?

If the Hawks had young guys to develop at a cheaper rate who could get us as far (like Utah does), I wouldn’t trade the younger guys for anything. It would be like keeping Devin and trading Teague… that makes ZERO sense. Utah isn’t going to keep Millsap or Jefferson and trade Favors. If they do, that suggets to me that they know something about Favors and his true potential (or lack thereof).

Cap space can be used for more tan free agents. We obtained Kyle Korver because of cap space/trade exception.

If we’re not going to maintain the flexibility to acquire an elite free agent in the summer, why did we trade a 6-time All-Star wing player for stale donuts?

O'Brien

January 4th, 2013
12:56 pm

I am cool with the Hawks trying to preserve their cap space for the summer, because I really don’t see any trade partner being available that would give us the piece(s) needed to beat Miami in a 7 game series this season.

Use the cap space to attract an impact FA over the summer, resign Josh (for the right price), and possibly have multiple first round picks (and depending on how the season plays out, maybe even a new HC). If those things happen, we will be locked and loaded for next season.

That being said, my concern is what’s the backup plan assuming we miss out on CP3 and Dwight. And with the new CBA and the elimination of the 5th year in sign and trade deals, we will be hard pressed to attract free agents, since they will have to leave money on the table to come play for the Hawks.

O'Brien

January 4th, 2013
1:02 pm

Number of games missed per season since Devin Harris came into the league.

6, 16, 2, 43, 57, 13, 18, 11, 3 and 10 games missed this season. But I will gladly take him over Marvin.

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
1:08 pm

Jeff Teague 30 game grade:

19th in scoring among PGs

10th in assists (who’d a thunk?)

11th in steals

So Jeff’s what, maybe a top 15 pg in the league right now? Top 10 in assist, wow, that’s a surprise.

Good job Jeff.

PS – Jeff averages more assists per game than steph curry, playing alot less mpg than curry.

O'Brien

January 4th, 2013
1:09 pm

Andy Reid is the new KC Chiefs HC. And the GM is out, which means Andy Reid will have more say in personnel decisions (imo).

I can see it now. Vick to KC on a 2 year deal, Chiefs try and trade out of the #1 pick to take a QB later in the first round. but nobody trades with them, so they use the #1 pick on a lineman, and use their second round pick (or trade back into the late 1st round) to pick up a QB to learn behind Vick for a year.

Rod from College Park

January 4th, 2013
1:14 pm

“Rod, aren’t you the one who always says the Hawks are losers because they don’t win the title? Aren’t you the one who believes Atlanta fans are to soft because we accept something less than the golden trophy? So it is bad for a team to lose but it is okay for players to get paid for non-winning results?”

I am, but I still realize thast the NBA is a business. Only one team can win the championship, but the other teams need to be building to win it. The other side of the business is that you have to be able to fill the arena’s up. In a place like Utah, where they actually go to the home games and fill up the arena nightly, having big name guys such as Jefferson and Millsap might be what gets their fans to the arena every night. Don’t know what would happen out there if they tried to do it on the cheap, because they never have. Utah is a totally different market, for obvious reasons, and you have to do what’s best for your market. Just like in Atlanta. Atlanta fans would fill up Phillips every night with a star on the level of Lebron, Iverson, D.Wade, Melo, no matter the record. It is what it is. I don’t see the superstar angle or the big ticket free agent coming here unless it’s Dwight, and the door is cracked on that. I think we will have to go the San Antonio route and build a solid team, with numerous weapons in order to win. Cap space is fantasyland.

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
1:14 pm

All I’m saying is, with the available fa options, if we could get Hickson and Monta as FA’s, while keeping josh, Ivan, ZaZa, and Jeff, with al, Lou and jj2 under contract, that gets us closer to a ’ship.

And with possibly two more 1st picks, good things look to be happening.

And if Brooklyn tanks, we can switch our picks in 2014 and 15 for maybe lottery picks, we’ll see

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
1:16 pm

OB – Colin cowherd? On the radio was just raving about aaron murray. Thinks he’s better than brees. He may be available later for kc

Rod from College Park

January 4th, 2013
1:17 pm

I personlly think Horford would be a star in Utah. The fans would love him. Perfect fit team for him.

keith

January 4th, 2013
1:20 pm

GREG ODEN…..WANTS TO PLAY BASKETBALL AGAIN…..

Greg Oden probably will be healthy enough to play basketball again this summer? Is he worth the risk? Vet. Minimum 2 year deal???

keith

January 4th, 2013
1:32 pm

I would trade…Jeff Teague, Anthony Morrow…and Al Horford for Al Jefferson amd Derrick Favors!!!

With Favors and Jefferson…we could legitimately compete with the Miami Heat and New York Knicks…

BIG DOG

January 4th, 2013
1:47 pm

Why would you trade Horford 2 Utah, I BE DAM

Hawks 20 wins and 10 loss

Jazz 16 wins and 17 loss

SMH

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

Grandad

January 4th, 2013
1:47 pm

Posted ny Najeh @ 3;50 am

” the Hawks have outscored opponents
by a mammoth 10 points per 100 possessions
over the 180-plus minutes in which
Smith, Horford, and Zaza Pachulia
have shared the floor, per NBA.com.”

” 180 minutes is not nearly enough for that lineup.
For all the good things LD has done this year,
I’d like to see a lot more of the big lineup going forward.”
____________________________________________

Posted by G`Dad @ 11:51 pm

” Which is why the (+/-) stat is such a valuable tool.
*[used within five man combinations]
It gives a reading on how the Team is functioning;
“one” with four others.”

” I say none of this to counter your argument.
If anything, I`m confounded at the lack of integration of Za
into the first rotation more often:
(playing alongside Al, Josh, Korv) …………………………….”
_____________________________________________

Thanks for the support Naj !

Great Minds ! … heh heh

keith

January 4th, 2013
1:51 pm

SteveW
January 4th, 2013
1:16 pm

Cowherd just lost a lot of CREDIBILITY…. Aaron Murray “is a SCRUB”, was a SCRUB,” and always will be “A SCRUB”!!! OK!!!!

I simply hope that this young man, ” Aaron Murray” leaves the UGA, so that the BETTER talent behind him can play!!!!!!!!

BIG DOG

January 4th, 2013
1:54 pm

Just be patient for free agent market and sign D12

2013 Could be a possibility for Hawks

Josh, Horford, D12

OR

Josh, Horford, AL Jefferson

This could be the Hawks Frontline coming next season.

Hope Danny has a Beautiful idea on what 2 come.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

keith

January 4th, 2013
1:57 pm

BIG DOG
January 4th, 2013
1:47 pm

Why would you trade Horford 2 Utah, I BE DAM

I WOULD RATHER TRADE JOSH SMITH, HOWEVER, HIS EXPIRING CONTRACT MAY MAKE HIM UNTRADABLE IN TERMS OF ACQUIRING EQUAL VALUE……

Rev in Tampa

January 4th, 2013
2:06 pm

“Cap space is fantasyland.”

So is bringing a NBA championship to Atlanta. But that is the goal. If cap space brings that goal closer then I’m all for it.

Come Home, Dwight!

BIG DOG

January 4th, 2013
2:07 pm

Keith – Just be patient Hawks will have a boat load of money coming this off season.

Keep the core and ADD not SUBTRACT.

Teague, Korver, Lou, Jenkins, Josh, Horford, Zaza, Big Dog Ivan, Morrow

And Add D12 or Jefferson

Hawks will contend for title.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

BIG DOG

January 4th, 2013
2:11 pm

2013 Hawks

Teague, Korver, Josh, Horford, D12 OR Jefferson

Lou, Jenkins, Morrow, Big Dog Ivan, Zaza

Hawks win NBA Title.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

keith

January 4th, 2013
2:18 pm

UP NEXT…DETROIT..BOSTON…MINNESOTA “GOOD JOSH” or ” BAD JOSH”???

Will we go 3-0 or 0-3? Next 3 games are bad match-ups for us…I will be watching Josh Smith’s production closely…I think the other guys will be fine. Can Josh “Cowboy-up”, Man-up” Pony-up” and give us “3 STRONG PERFORMANCES”?????

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
2:20 pm

Rod & OB, you can trade Horford th e moement you know that Dwight or CP3 aren’t signing with the Hawks. That is “Plan B”. You can spend your cap space on OJ Mayo. Because of the cap space, you could trade Lou Williams to a team that needs some salary relief and take back a $10M player. You could also sign & trade Zaza for a higher salaried player if the team needs salary relief. There are options to explore if an elite free agent refuses to come. But, IMO, there isn’t likely a trade that can be madethat is worth removing yourself from even hosting Dwight or CP3 at a recruiting dinner on July 1st. It is hard for me to believe that Ferry can’t get us marginally better in February (and lose cap space) but can’t get us marginally better in late July (if we fail to sign an elite free agent). A marginal increase in talent can be achieved both in the next 6 weeks OR during the summer. But a significant increase in talent is likely only possible with cap space this summer.

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
2:24 pm

Steve, Monta Ellis? How many short shoot-first guards are you trying to acquire for the Hawks? We don;t need Ellis AND Lou and be in a position where we are short at SG for every minute of the game. That’s CRAZY.

Slimjr

January 4th, 2013
2:25 pm

Love goes for 30 and 20 against the Hawks..

Who’s going to stop him Al?

doc

January 4th, 2013
2:28 pm

ill say it first

aaron murray reminds me of joey harrington.

Slimjr

January 4th, 2013
2:32 pm

As a 2 or 3 seed at or before the trade deadline does Danny sit tight or does he pull a trade to make the Hawks marginally better going into the stretch run and into the playoffs?

Why would D12 come here and leave money on the table?

Slimjr

January 4th, 2013
2:33 pm

“aaron murray reminds me of joey harrington.” -doc-

joey who??????????????? hehehehe

Swingman912

January 4th, 2013
2:34 pm

We dont need any more tweeners thats for sure.

High-sider

January 4th, 2013
2:36 pm

“The other side of the business is that you have to be able to fill the arena’s up. In a place like Utah, where they actually go to the home games and fill up the arena nightly, having big name guys such as Jefferson and Millsap might be what gets their fans to the arena every night. Don’t know what would happen out there if they tried to do it on the cheap, because they never have. Utah is a totally different market, for obvious reasons, and you have to do what’s best for your market.” – Rod from College Park @1:14pm, 01/04/2013

In places like Utah (Salt Lake City), OKC, San Antonio, Memphis, Portland, Sacramento and Orlando where teams like the Jazz, Thunder, Spurs, Grizzlies, Blazers, Kings and Magic play (home games), (professional) basketball is pretty much “the only show in town” (in terms of major professional sports). Local sports enthusiasts will probably come out regardless in those aforementioned cities but a “great product” (or team) will more than likely make those local sports enthusiasts that much more “frenzied” and “fanatical.”

The bottom line is that in a city like Atlanta where it has multiple professional sports franchises, the Hawks have to “bring it” (e.g., win championships or at a very high level, acquire big name superstars, coaches, etc.) in order to “fill up” Phillips Arena (pun intended) whereas cities like Salt Lake (City) may not (have to “bring it”) because it (SLC) has “the only show in town.”

Grandad

January 4th, 2013
2:37 pm

All the Dwight Howard talk ?

It has been proven – he is not a team guy !
Kobe no longer wants him as a Laker.
Kobe is the consummate winner !
So Why do we think he [DH] would make us better ?

Talent. Okay, now what ?

Above it was proven;
Josh, Al, & Zaza ….. teammates for years;
-chemistry- already established,
and yawl wish to disrupt that for the unknown ?
____________________________________________

Sometimes you fellas cannot see past your own noses.
We have a really good front line. / [including Ivan]
With two needs:
*a long defensive [5] 7 ftr preferred
*a young defensive minded [3] think “Kawhi Leonard” to develop
These two could possible come through the draft.

Free Agency should bring us *’`The`’* player we so urgently need !
We cannot afford to make a mistake and in my humble estimation;
Dwight Howard would be a costly mi$take.
____________________________________________

Chris Paul would be a mucho grande wi$e investment.

doc

January 4th, 2013
2:40 pm

aka “check down joey” slimj.

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
2:43 pm

Grandad, honestly, thew first 2 free agents I would invite to Atlanta next summer are CP3 and OJ Mayo. Dwight would be third (at best) on my wish list. I don’t care an arena full of fake fans trying to be seen at a big event, I want a title contender. And I agree, Dwight isn’t Moses… he ain’t taking us to the promised land. I’d rather add Mayo as a new part of the “ensemble”.

Swingman912

January 4th, 2013
2:45 pm

I’d love a true SG like Mayo, but does Dallas give him that long term deal this summer? He’s thier leading scorer, and killing it from beyond the arc. If i were them Id keep him, but if they dont the Hawks need him!

doc

January 4th, 2013
2:56 pm

check back a page gdad

agree but dont see it happinin for either d12 or cp3.

High-sider

January 4th, 2013
2:57 pm

@Rod from College Park
———————————————————
Rod from College Park
January 4th, 2013
1:17 pm

I personlly think Horford would be a star in Utah. The fans would love him. Perfect fit team for him.
—————————————————————-

Here’s a trade proposal/scenario for you. The trade proposal is as follows:

Hawks get Al Jefferson (C), Derrick Favors (PF/C) and DeMarre Carroll (SF).

Jazz get Al Horford (C/PF), Zaza Pachulia (C) and Anthony Tolliver (PF).

The Hawks get (somewhat of) a defensive-minded SF in return (Carroll) and Favors gets to come (back) to the A-T-L. I was going to use (SG/SF) Gordon Hayward in the trade (proposal) but I seriously doubt that the Jazz would trade Hayward for “obvious reasons.” (LOL)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=adh5tbu

Rod from College Park

January 4th, 2013
3:04 pm

CP3 is not coming to Atlanta. He is in a better market, with a better team, with better players around him who compliment his strengths. I don’t even consider him. Dwight while having a down year, for whatever reason is still better than any player on our roster. Grandad, a combo of Dwight and Josh, or Dwight an Horford, is 10 times better than Josh and Horford. Defensively, Offensely, Rebounding and getting out in transition we would be a much better team, and it allows you to balance the lineup. Other than that, I see no other way to really improve this roster.

I like Mayo, but I don’t see how adding Mayo to Josh, Al, Teague, and Korver makes you any better than we were with Joe. Same difference, only thing is Korver replaces Marvin, which is a huge upgrade, but not sure if that gets you past Miami or the Knicks.

Rod from College Park

January 4th, 2013
3:07 pm

High-sider,

Would love that trade on our end. Not sure whether Utah would love it. They probably would be trigger shy on any trade with the Hawks after getting Marvin Williams.

O'Brien

January 4th, 2013
3:18 pm

Dwight has his issues offensively, but he can still block shots and rebound at a high rate (imo) when healthy. Plus if you have Dwight on your team, it is easier to convince other players to sign with the Hawks. Look at the bench players taking less money to play for the Heat.

For example, CP3 was (initially) trying to end up with Dwight on the same team (Mavericks was mentioned), but it didn’t work out (Dwight’s fault probably). Is there anyone who will sign with the Hawks because of Josh and Al?

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
3:22 pm

AJ – nah, it’s not crazy. Monta is as good or better than oj mayo, who you want. Mayo has shown me little in his time in the league, while Monta has brought it since he came in the league. And look at money as assist numbers – he does more than shoot.

So mayos your plan for a ’ship? Now that’s crazy

Grandad

January 4th, 2013
3:24 pm

’spurs way or nugget way.”
“we gotta find a better way.’
-doc-

Ab-so-dad-gum-tively !

doc;
the only reason I continue to mention CPaul;
is a counter-argument to DHoward !

Whether or not [either / or t`uther] would come here is irrelevant.

I`m always 1st and foremost about about TeamBuilding
as I ‘think’ DF is as well.
plus;
what a marvelous job, so far.
____________________________________________

Now if he could swing some sort of Teague for Rondo trade ? ? ?

High-sider

January 4th, 2013
3:25 pm

As a result (based on my post @2:57pm), the Hawks could feature the following (starting) lineups:

Big Lineup:

PG – J. Teague
SG – K. Korver
SF – J. Smith
PF – D. Favors
C – A. Jefferson
6th Man – L. Williams

Small(er) Lineup:

PG – J. Teague
SG – L. Williams
SF – K. Korver
PF – J. Smith
C – A. Jefferson

Defensive Lineup (for the defense fanatics):

PG – J. Teague
SG – D. Stevenson
SF – D. Carroll/J. Smith
PF – J. Smith/I. Johnson
C – D. Favors

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=adh5tbu

O'Brien

January 4th, 2013
3:26 pm

Rod,

I like Mayo, but I don’t see how adding Mayo to Josh, Al, Teague, and Korver makes you any better than we were with Joe..

Don’t forget we have Lou and JJ2 at SG as well.

Swingman912

January 4th, 2013
3:31 pm

What i dont want is another undersized SG like Monta. Dont get me wrong, i like Monta, and he’s productive, but what position other than PG can he defend with that 6′2” frame?

Rod from College Park

January 4th, 2013
3:33 pm

“Don’t forget we have Lou and JJ2 at SG as well.”

Lou is not better than Jamal, and JJ2 has not put in enough work yet for me to judge him.

Rev in Tampa

January 4th, 2013
3:43 pm

“ill say it first

aaron murray reminds me of joey harrington.”

Sounds like something a Tech grad might say. hehe

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
3:49 pm

Guys I’m just looking at the realistic fa market, considering the salary cap, and trying to find a way to get us to a ’ship. And we need a cut throat scorer. Monta is better than Jamal, even though there real close. Real close. Monta’s a warrior with no conscience. Mayo has been close to a bust malcontent, till he led the mavs to like 10-19 while they waited for dirk to get healthy. Didn’t mayo like fight with a teammate on the plane? Wasn’t his attitude considered somewhat cousinisc (new word;bad try)?

He may turn out ok, but he’s more of a risk, while you know what your getting in Monta. A fighter who wants to win.

Look at the bucks roster. Look at their record. Monta and Jennings are playing like crazy.

Get mayo for the mid level, he may be worth it. May blow our minds.

Or he may blow up.

Grandad

January 4th, 2013
3:51 pm

We do not need a [2] guard or another [1.5] Monta.

An elite pg, an elite pg defender, a SuperStar [3]:
-okay-
now who`s out there ?
____________________________________________

Check every name in the NBA – I have – who`s available ?
Who may or may not be available ?
The list shrinks !
____________________________________________

Names of impact needs that possibly could be acquired
either through hook or crook: / *[to acquire]
*Rondo – has been mentioned in trade rumors / [Josh]
*PGeorge – / [Al or Josh plus take on bad contract or three]
*DH or CPaul – / [FA]
*Jefferson or Milsap – / [FA]
*gamble on a young unproven player with potential – / Al or Josh
*Kyle Lowry & or Bargnani – doable / [Teaguer + Al or Josh]
*Tyreke Evans – interesting / if they would go for [Teague]
_____________________________________________

Players I would love:
Jrue Holiday, Steph Curry, Mark Gasol;
just not doable !

Just like most of the above – nice to talk about – impractical.

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
3:52 pm

Swing – who does Jeff, Lou and Devin defend? We usually star two of them and Monta is actually bigger than Lou and Jeff.

Again, I’m not sold on Monta as some great leader. Bit throw your realistic scenarios out there. Easy to criticize, hard to accomplish.

O'Brien

January 4th, 2013
3:54 pm

Rod,

My point is with OJ Mayo, we would have a gluttony of SG (in Lou, Mayo and JJ2).

I would like to see us upgrade the PG, Center, or SF position before signing a big name SG FA.

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
3:57 pm

Gdad – tyrekes a gamble. Been going the wrong way.

No way Indy gives up george. You seen his game recently? And he’s cheap.

Lowers no upgrade on Teague, and bargnanis no upgrade on al or josh.

Rondos a head case, but I take him all day long. Proven player of a head case and reasonable contract also. Celts want Dwight, maybe they get Teague and josh and give us rondo and sullinger and another young big, idk

Grandad

January 4th, 2013
3:58 pm

What I would do
-is-
take a wild ride with
-Lou & Monta- @ twin guards / no pg.

Teaguer & Harris for Monta

Grandad

January 4th, 2013
4:07 pm

SteveW

That was my whole point.

You tell me what else is out there.

I disagree – vehemently; Lowry huge upgrade over Jeff !
Defense alone !
Leadership, inspiration, plays balls-to-the-wall every nite,
rebounds position, tough as hide strap, mean as a three legged goat,
plays for the Team, never quits, …………………………………………….
heck yeah he`s the polar opposite of Jeff.

Honesty

January 4th, 2013
4:08 pm

BIG DOG
January 4th, 2013
2:07 pm

Keith – Just be patient Hawks will have a boat load of money coming this off season.

Keep the core and ADD not SUBTRACT.

Teague, Korver, Lou, Jenkins, Josh, Horford, Zaza, Big Dog Ivan, Morrow

And Add D12 or Jefferson

Hawks will contend for title.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
—————————————————————————–
Guys,

A front line of Josh/Horford/Howard Is the best thing we can hope for. We have a shot at it. I think DF knows this as well. It’s so potentially realistic that you HAVE TO hold serve and wait until the offseason and give D12 your best pitch. If it doesn’t work out the oh well, but Ferry HAS to try and stack the deck like that. It’s the only way to overcome Miami et. al. It’s our shot at True relevancy as a franchise. We’ve gotta go for it. Josh at SF (for this team) is better than any free agent SF we could potentially bring in this summer.

Teague
Lou/JJ
Smith
Horford
Howard

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
4:19 pm

The thing about signing a non max player like Mayo is that he is easier to move later (if need be). Ferry needs to maintain flexibility beyond next summer. Let’s not sit here and think that next November, we will have a 1-14 roster that is ready to compete for the title. We may only have some of the pieces in place and hopefully will keep enough flexibility to add or make trades as needed to complete the roster. This is NOT a one time process people.

Steve, Ellis is NOT better than Mayo. He is a one-dimensional, short volume shooter who has maybe been to one postseason in 8+ years? He is best suited to be a 6th man on a contender… I’ll stick with Lou for that role.

I don’t trust Donald Sterling to do the right thing when it comes to his roster salary. I know that CP3 has it all with the Clippers but he will have to know for certain that Sterling won’t start dumping salary the moment that team has one bad season.

Oh yeah, and salary cap space could also help land someone like Bledsoe… especially if Sterling is feeling like he won’t be able to keep him, CP3, Blake, Jordan and Butler.

Every summer, a player or three is moved for pennnies on the dollar to a team with cap space. Do you really want to sit on the sideline because we wanted to acquire someone like Richard Jefferson? We’ll be sitting here next August debating Jamario Moon vs. Damion James (again).

Honesty

January 4th, 2013
4:19 pm

“Drew has taken an almost totally revamped team and made it sing around the Josh Smith–Al Horford front-line combination, even as he’s still experimenting with lineups and rotations. He’s finding the right mix of little and littler at the perimeter spots, and he’s leaned more than expected — and to great success — on ultrabig lineups featuring Smith at small forward; the Hawks have outscored opponents by a mammoth 10 points per 100 possessions over the 180-plus minutes in which Smith, Horford, and Zaza Pachulia have shared the floor, per NBA.com.”

Now Replace Zaza with Howard…..oh boy!

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/46429/the-not-quite-mid-season-awards-part-2

Swingman912

January 4th, 2013
4:20 pm

SteveW- youre right, our defense from our guards have been suspect to say the least. it is hard to accomplish, and honestly I dont see how DF will make this team a contender in the short term. I’m always looking but 2 guard isnt a need this year. We need a perimeter defender at the 3 that can run the floor and hit an open jumpshot…but doesnt everyteam need that. I’m out of answer…hopefully HOU falls out of the lttery and we find a jewel with that pick

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
4:26 pm

If Howard comes, Horford leaves. In that order. Howard in. Horford out.

Swingman912

January 4th, 2013
4:29 pm

AstroJoe- you dont think they try to keep both, considering Horford prefers to play outside and D12 is an inside guy?

Honesty

January 4th, 2013
4:33 pm

Astro Joe, Swingman, They can keep both and if DF can, he will. This guy was LeBron’s GM and he knows what it takes. It’s the right decision.

Honesty

January 4th, 2013
4:34 pm

Howard on the left block, Josh on the right block, and Horford spots up from 15ft.

Money.

Rod from College Park

January 4th, 2013
4:36 pm

“If Howard comes, Horford leaves. In that order. Howard in. Horford out.”

Agreed.

“Every summer, a player or three is moved for pennnies on the dollar to a team with cap space. Do you really want to sit on the sideline because we wanted to acquire someone like Richard Jefferson? We’ll be sitting here next August debating Jamario Moon vs. Damion James (again).”

If this team stays constructed as is or even if we gain Howard and lose Horford, a 3 (Jefferson or Maggette type) will still be more of a need than Eric Bledsoe.

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
4:45 pm

No, I don’t think Ferry will have a $45M starting frontcourt.

Rod, Bledsoe was just a name. Bottom line is the Clippers won;t likely keep CP3 and Bledoe together for long. If Teague doesn’t take the next step, that could be a guy worth acquiring with upside. No doubt, the Hawks will need to add an elite wing player if Howard comes.

ATLien

January 4th, 2013
4:58 pm

I wish we could trade about 3/4 of the Hawks “fans” on this blog.

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
5:00 pm

Want to know what cap space can do if an elite free agent turns us down? Checkout this…

http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

Honesty

January 4th, 2013
5:03 pm

$45M starting front-court or Big Three? Tomato Tomaaato. The only way DF could possibly live up to the Hype is if he Attempts this. It’s the only way we’re getting out of the East in this Lebron James, Derick Rose era.

Honesty

January 4th, 2013
5:05 pm

If We don’t get the big FA, we simply re-up on our guys for 1yr deals and Hope we get a Gem with one of our many Draft picks.,

Honesty

January 4th, 2013
5:13 pm

Well we might make it out of the East this year….you never know

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
5:14 pm

Gdad – I know, that’s basically all that’s out there. And btw, Lowerys no big upgrade on Teague, trust me. We can agree to disagree on that one.

AJ – I said Monta was as good or better. Mayo, except for short bursts, has been a major flop.

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
5:16 pm

Honesty- our major guys will sign elsewhere rather than reup for one year. And we gotta match Teagues offer, not likely to be 1 year.

Slim

January 4th, 2013
5:18 pm

I’m so tired of idiots here saying trade josh, get off the blog if its only hate, some of you need to be smacked on the hand for all this hatred.

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
5:19 pm

Dominic McGuire waived, some of you guys wanted him on the wing

Astro Joe

January 4th, 2013
5:23 pm

Honesty, history suggests that the best talent needs to run across the front AND back court. That is why you can’t put all of your eggs in one part of the court.

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
5:32 pm

Slim – trust me, I don’t want to trade josh. Just responding to gdads proposed trade a little earlier.

Only way I trade josh is if he cost too much, we felt he wouldn’t re-sign with us, or we got a great deal. Josh is our best player, hands down.

SteveW

January 4th, 2013
5:34 pm

I been thinking I like Bledsoe also, basically as a backup to Teague. Same with Calderon or maynor.

Slim

January 4th, 2013
5:42 pm

I hear ya SteveW, josh is a triple double waiting to happen, and to the contrary he’s a true leader on this team. He and Al chemistry is off the charts, we just need our perimeter guys to play better defense.

newkid

January 4th, 2013
5:50 pm

O’Brien, thanks for the research. AJ, the term ‘brittle’ certainly does seem appropriate for Harris. Gotta imagine that GM’s will be pretty reluctant to give him anything beyond a one-year deal during this free agent summer. Those in need of a PG this spring to keep playoff hopes alive ought to likewise be skeptical about trading for him. Oh well, at least he’s an expiring.

vava74

January 4th, 2013
5:54 pm

Again, great posts everyone. I am seeing things or C-Viv, beyond keeping a steady flow of info has also managed to clean the blog??

Special co-sign to Rod’s latests posts. I was a non believer in this roster but if we reach the trade dealine in the top #4 (with Miami ahead in the division we can only be #4 right?) then we should definitively try something that could fill in needs and make adjustments even if we had to accept (some) salary.

Honesty

January 4th, 2013
6:00 pm

AJ,

I’ve thought about that too but I have come to some different conclusions.

1) Teague/Lou/Devin are WAY better penetrators/ball-players than Jameer Nelson/whoever else backs him up

2) Shooters! Morrow/Jenkins/Korver We can really complement Dwight. We would now have a go-to post game along with our stellar perimeter scoring this season.

3) History, we’ve seen a big lineup like that be successful before.

What to Javaris Crittenton, Mike Mercer, Josh Smith, Randolph Morris, and Dwight Howard have in common? It was starting lineup for the AAU team that won the national title in 2003 against a team lead by Al Horford and Drew Neitzel out of Michigan.

Now that may not mean much to you but to me it says something. Teague > Drew Neitzel, Louis Williams > Mike Mercer (they were teammates at South Gwinnett HS), Josh Smith can Still play the SF spot (and play to his strengths) and he’s better than he was back then. Al Horford > Randolph Morris (As If 2 All-Star selections and Morris’ stint with the Hawks wasn’t enough proof of this), and Dwight is obviously a better Dwight.

4) Ivan and Zaza (AKA Smash and Bash) are the perfect front-court Mercenaries off the bench

I think it would be special. I also believe that a lot of the players on our roster right now that will be free agents will make a little sacrifice financially if it meant potentially playing for a title if Dwight signed with us. I feel like our Back-court is fine and more than adequate to get us a title if Dwight is on Board. Nobody thought Chalmers’ and Rondo were Worthy of their position on their respective teams until they proved it by winning title’s with their respective teams.

vava74

January 4th, 2013
6:03 pm

Anyone claiming that Howard (healthy) would not make us instant ECF attendants is crazy.
Either Horford or Smith would be sufficient pair to him, although Horford would probably mesh better and be more complimentary.

However, I even think that if we kept Josh and added Howard, sacrificing Horford, Josh would probably play SF and we would go after a cheap stretch 4.

vava74

January 4th, 2013
6:05 pm

Anyhow, Howard will never come here and even less probable if Josh was not here.

W.R. Terrell

January 4th, 2013
6:06 pm

Could it be that Al is playing a lil gimpy and not complaining about it. Last time the HAWKS played the Pistons the “Smoove” played one helluva game the first half and his point total was outstanding at 30. The second half he had 1 point a lot of crazy shots which allowed the Pistons to get back into the game. Lets hope tonight is not a repeat of that. As far as trading Josh if DF can get a decent player and 1st round pick then Josh is gone and DF is not going to pay him big dollars for his silliness. The monies could be used in a more efficient and beneficial manner. Josh has bigtime athleticism and low B Ball IQ and contrary to a lot of folks belief there is not a lot of teams willing to part with good players for Josh. That’s just a fact.

Slim

January 4th, 2013
6:06 pm

Who would want omeka okufur, Jesus Christ, ZaZa plays harder than that clown anyway. I wouldn’t make any trades unless it was just a no-brainer, we are third in the east with a month before the all-star break. The hawks really have a good team, deal with the reality. Some of you guys are like prince’s mom, you’re never satisfied.

W.R. Terrell

January 4th, 2013
6:09 pm

Al had the chance to come here, with Joe and Marvin’s contracts gone the HAWKS could have signed him. I don’t think Howard wants to play in Atlanta as long as Josh is here.

W.R. Terrell

January 4th, 2013
6:14 pm

I meant Howard, not Al but Howard had his chance to come to the HAWKS

Honesty

January 4th, 2013
6:15 pm

“Anyhow, Howard will never come here and even less probable if Josh was not here.”

True, but we still have to give it a shot this off-season. We can’t close the door on ourselves. that’s just not good management. DF’s comments about have flexibility and cap-pace going into the summer lead me to believe he may feel the same way.

Honesty

January 4th, 2013
6:20 pm

“Either Horford or Smith would be sufficient pair to him, although Horford would probably mesh better and be more complimentary.”

I mean, we’re a sufficient team right now as is. But if you want to win a title, sufficient isn’t good enough. Josh/Horford/Howard gets you well beyond sufficient.

Ken Strickland

January 4th, 2013
6:42 pm

GRANDAD-Many of the individuals posting on these blogs are player fans, not Hawk fans. Their loyality and admiration are to the player not the team. That’s why they constantly suggest trades for this player or that player, even though it might be improbable for their trade suggestions to take place.

Some what to see us go all out and sign DHorford, and then trade Horford rather than Josh. They desperately what to realize their fantasy of seeing Josh and Howard play together.

It doesn’t matter to them one bit that Horford, with his extremely effective midrange jumper, would compliment Howard much better than Josh and his inefficient misfiring rainbow jumper.

With DHoward and Josh playing together, we’d end up with a situation very simular to what the Lakers are going through with Howard and Gasol. With Howard clogging the middle, it would make Josh almost totally reliant on his long range jumper, because he certainly doesn’t have anything even remotely close to a midrange OFF gm he can fall back on.

With Horford, Korver and their deadly jumpers flanking DHoward, along with JTeague and JJenkins at guard, no DEF could afford to pack the lane to stop Dwight or keep Teague from penetrating. With that starting lineup and bench, consisting of LWilliams, IJohnson, ZPachulia, MScott, AMorrow, ATolliver and DStevenson, this would definitely be a championship caliber team.

Ken Strickland

January 4th, 2013
6:53 pm

Even without DHorward, Ferry could still build a championship caliber team with Josh, Horford, Teague, Ivan, Zaza, Lou, Jenkins, Scott and Korver. We only need to add a productive SF(draft pick or FA), a rebounding backup DEF C(FA or trade), like Camby or Dalembert, and a productive PG(draft pick or FA).

Honesty

January 4th, 2013
6:54 pm

Lebron and Wade Don’t fit each other well either, but they won a title together. The are essentially the same player. Both are slashers who are sub-par to average jump shooters. They both need the ball in their hands to be effective.

The stat line for that team as far as Point distribution on any give night is horrible:

Wade :30 LeBron: 30 :Bosh 18 Miller: 5 Allen:3 Everybody else: 0 It happens a lot for them.

I feel like because Our potential “Big three” mainly plays inside rather than on the perimeter, the point distributions will be more balanced. Can’t win without the guards playing a role.

Atlanta Hawks: Rematch with Pistons awaits

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Atlanta Hawks: Rematch with Pistons awaits

216 comments Add your comment

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About Atlanta Hawks

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