Atlanta Hawks: Is Josh Smith an All-Star?
Hawks forward Josh Smith has never been named to an NBA All-Star team despite impressive career numbers. CURTIS COMPTON/ccompton@ajc.com
Vivlamore reporting.
Is Josh Smith an All-Star?
Despite all-around career statistics few in NBA history have reached, the Hawks forward has never been chosen for the All-Star Game. He has not been voted in by fans, selected by coaches nor named a replacement by the league.
Through his eight-plus year career, Smith is on the verge of becoming just the 24th player in NBA history to reach the milestones of 10,000 points, 5,000 rebounds, 2,000 assists and 1,000 blocks. The 23 players who reached those marks, including nine Hall of Famers, combined to appear in 184 All-Star Games. Only one, Mychal Thompson, never made an all-star appearance.
In Smith’s 624 career games, he has averaged 15.1 points, 8.0 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 2.2 blocks and 1.3 steals. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, he is the only player in league history with career averages over 15.0 points, 7.0 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 2.0 blocks and 1.0 steals.
Steve Smith, the former Hawks player and broadcaster and current analyst for NBA TV, said Smith being left off the All-Star team is a “travesty.”
In a series of interviews with NBA executives, coaches, players, analysts and support personnel, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution examined the question of why Smith has never represented the Eastern Conference in the midseason exhibition featuring basketball’s top players. The inquiry revealed a number of possible reasons - some of Smith’s own doing, some out if his control.
Smith doesn’t figure to be voted in by the fans as a starter. He is competing at forward with the likes of LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Chris Bosh and now Carmelo Anthony – all high-profile, high-scoring fan favorites. James has been a starter for all eight games that Smith has been in the league taking away one spot. He and Garnett were the starting forwards for three straight years (2008-10). With the Knicks adding Amar’e Stoudemire and Anthony from the Western Conference, starters with James the past two years, the competition for votes is tougher than ever for a player who has never selected.
In the first balloting results released by the league, Smith is eighth among front-court players with 69,344 votes. He trails the leader James by 572,000 votes and is just ahead of the Sixers’ Andrew Bynum, who hasn’t played a game this season.
Coaches, who name the All-Star reserves, have ignored Smith. One reason could be the early-career reputation that Smith developed especially playing under then-Hawks coach Mike Woodson. While other players had run-ins with Woodson, several of Smith’s were highly-publicized.
Coaches may also be influenced by some of Smith’s on-court reaction to officiating. Smith’s scowl and sometimes overt actions certainly look bad. Many of the head men from the early part of Smith’s career are still in the league with the same or different teams in NBA’s often-limited coaching carousel.
“He has the ability,” said Heat coach Eric Spoelstra, who noted he was unaware Smith has never been an All-Star. “He has the production. He’s been successful enough to have been an All-Star at some point.”
The league had two prime opportunities to name Smith a replacement and passed. David Lee was named in 2010 and Rajon Rondo was named in 2012. Lee, a forward, was named to replace guard Allen Iverson. Last season is the most troubling for the Hawks and Smith’s camp. When the Hawks’ lone representative Joe Johnson pulled out of the game with left knee tendonitis, the Commissioner David Stern opted for Rondo, a guard, instead of another Atlanta player.
Johnson’s career in Atlanta also hurt Smith. The guard made six straight All-Star games as a Hawk. When center Al Horford was named to the team in 2010 and 2011, before missing the game with an injury last season, the Hawks were unlikely to have three representatives.
“In the past year’s I’ve put up All-Star quality numbers,” Smith said. “I always seem to fall short. I think it impacts the people around me more so than me like my parents, my family, my friends. They feel like I’m deserving of that opportunity at least once or twice in my career. They see the things that people normally don’t see. They see the offseason workouts. All the energy I put into that in order to be a better person, be a better player. They see all the ups and downs of the season. They experience all that. They understand. They see me and they see all the struggles. They want it more. I definitely want it. I definitely want it, don’t get me wrong. I want to do it for them.”
The Hawks style of play in recent years was suggested as something that works against Smith. The offense was looked at as a half-court system that promotes isolation plays, mostly running through Johnson. With the trade of Johnson, the Hawks are emphasizing an up-tempo style.
While the Hawks have made the playoffs the past five seasons, their failure to get past the second round could also have affected Smith’s selection. National attention comes with deep postseason runs.
While Smith puts up impressive numbers in several statistical categories, not everything the forward does appears in a boxscore. Smith can guard several positions and he influences many opposing shots as a help defender.
Over the course of this career, Smith’s numbers tend to get better as the season progresses. Each year, from November to April, Smith’s monthly-averages in points and rebounds per game get better with just a few exceptions. All-Star voting and selections occur in the first three months of the season.
One statistic that works against Smith is his shooting percentage. For a player who excels around the rim, Smith’s jump shooting adversely affects his numbers. He has shot over 50 percent from the field only once in his career (2009-10). An ill-timed jump shot can be accentuated by the ensuing groans from fans after a miss. For his career, Smith is shooting 28.3 percent (221 of 782) from 3-point range.
Smith, who jumped directly from high school to the NBA, has been a regular starter throughout his career. It has taken time for the 26-year old to mature into the player he is today from a basketball sense. A case can be made that only Smith’s statistics the past two seasons are All-Star quality.
“I always say you have to do it twice,” TNT analyst Kenny Smith said. “I say 8 out of 10 guys have to do it twice. He’s in that 8 out of 10. Having one great year followed by another great first half of a year. I think that he’s done that this year so he’ll be on.”
The starters for this season’s All-Star game, to be played Feb. 17 in Houston, will be announced Jan. 17. The naming of the reserves by coaches will follow in several weeks.
For Smith, the wait continues.
- Chris Vivlamore
LATEST NEWS
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* Morrow out, Stevenson questionable vs. Wizards
* A look at the Hawks at the season’s quarter mark
* Hawks look to put worst loss behind them
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167 comments Add your comment
vava74
December 25th, 2012
5:46 am
FTPB,
Buddy,
I prefer to look at strength of schedule from my own perspective:
We have not played the Spurs, the Lakers, the Knicks, the Celts, the Nets, only played the Sixers, the Bulls and the Pacers once.
Still have to play MIA twice.
That’s about 20 something tough games still to be played.
Of our wins, we already had multiple wins against CHA and WIZ which clearly inflates our record.
Heck, we only had just over a handful of meaningful wins: MEM, LAC, DEN, OKC, IND and CHI and of these…
OKC was still getting their line up aligned, ditto for IND, we caught MEM a bit off guard and just before they went into a 5 game funk (which could indicate that they were too confident), the LAC have talent but have a fool on the bench who could not get past our zone D, CHI were exhausted and emotionally drained and Denver is not a particularly impressive team to start with.
Give me some wins against MIA, BOS, NYK, CHI (rested and with Rose) and IND (now that they seem to have adjusted to the new line up and when Granger is back) and even PHI.
If we win 50% of those matches, I will be impressed. Until then, I still think we are bound for a 38-42 win season and a couple of 6 or 7 games losing streaks are lurking.
vava74
December 25th, 2012
5:47 am
As for the people around here who are looking into bringing Derrick Williams whilst thinking that it would cost us only a bit player like Morrow, I think you are banking too much on Khan’s idiocy.
It’s not impossible that Minny’s GM is that stupid, but I think there might be 50 better offers in the league for a player like Derrick whose potential is significant and that could still go either way: bust or star (but no longer superstar).
vava74
December 25th, 2012
5:49 am
and…
Merry Christmas everyone!
vava74
December 25th, 2012
5:58 am
As for next season:
I would go all in on Pekovic. He is the best option for us out there.
Not as skilled as Jefferson, but he is aggressive and imposes respect in the paint.
Jefferson is all offense.
Admiral SnAckbar
December 25th, 2012
7:56 am
Z is the key.
LD gotta get Z ballin and the rest will fall in line.
Ray
December 25th, 2012
8:32 am
@ Vava74
While you think certain teams have inflated the record. I’ll take that plus close losses then being completely blown out by a team.
Only two teams that have completely blown the doors off of us is Sixers and LAC.
Most impressive win of the season LAC second time that’s the type of team the hawks can be when they dominate everywhere.
Hawks fan
December 25th, 2012
8:41 am
For all of you people who are begging for D. Williams, better recognize he is a BUST! Another Marvin Williams! We dont need or should not want him! Chemistry is important and this team has it. I see 46 to 52 wins out of this team! We better enjoy this team because these are not your Joe Johnson Hawks!
Admiral SnAckbar
December 25th, 2012
8:56 am
Golden State the second time was a bad loss.
BaghdadHawk
December 25th, 2012
9:02 am
@vava74
Wins are wins. You can make all the excuses you want. Obviously you are included in the bunch that doomed us to have no shot at the playoffs. Instead we are 3rd in the East, after dismantling the 4th place team. This team can play with anyone, as the wins you choose to dismiss show. And the future is bright, with the cap space and flexibilty we have going forward.
And yes, Josh Smith is an All Star. Hawks fans, go online and VOTE!!
Rev in Tampa
December 25th, 2012
9:57 am
C-Viv for blog pulitzer. The article ranks right up there with MC’s article which called LD out for giving Teague the Rook treatment: http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2010/12/28/atlanta-hawks-on-drew-and-teague/
keith
December 25th, 2012
10:28 am
In prior years, Josh Smith was an all-star, and regrettably left off those teams! However, Clearly, his play and numbers “this season” does not “Quantify” or Qualify for a spot on this years’ all-star Team!. I love Joshs’ athleticism, love his passion, love his energy, however, he is clearly the 3rd or 4th option on any Basketball team.
Merry Christmas Josh(if you are reading this) Merry Christmas EVERYONE and may God Bless you all!!!
Joey
December 25th, 2012
10:37 am
Josh is an All-Star whether or not he gets voted in. He gets a bad rap for pouting and pleading with the refs – that’s his only downside. The only surprise in a Hawks game now is when he DOESN’T get those averages.
Josh has been a consistant player for years now, and still he can’t get ATL fans to get out the vote for him. Hawks fans will realize next year what they had, after he’s gone.
glw
December 25th, 2012
10:40 am
@vava74
I concur with your point about the Hawks, not really havent played the Spurs, Lakers, Nets, Celtics. You are right, those games will tell a lot about this team this season and the potential of it.
But not sure what you are getting at as far as the meaningful wins. You label them meaningful, but then offer up excuses as to why those teams might have lost those games.
Lets look at those excuses to why those teams lost to the Hawks.
1. Oklahoma City- it was early and they were just getting tryingto get their parts together? WEll you can say that about 75% of the teams in the league. The Hawks are incorporating 8 or 9 new players. And we played without arguably our best player in Josh.
2. We caught Memphis off guard? They had the best record in the league. Maybe the Hawks beating them gave everyone else a blueprint of what they can do to beat them.
3. Chicago was emotionally drained? Sure they had played the night before in New York, but it wasnt like the Hawks were resting the night before. They had a road game in Philly that evening , and am sure Hawks got in town about the same time as the Bulls.
This is the NBA, wins are wins, sure their are games that are almost impossible to win, but you never know in this league. Golden State played the night before on the last night of a 7 or 8 game road stand, they had every reason to pack it in against the Hawks who were rested and waiting. That was the recipe for an easy Hawks victory at home, but what happened, the Hawks got ran off the court. Of all their games, that is the most troubling one for me.
keith
December 25th, 2012
10:50 am
“JOSH SMITH IS NO ALL-STAR THIS YEAR” REPOST!!!
In prior years, Josh Smith was an all-star, and regrettably left off those teams! However, Clearly, his play and numbers “this season” does not “Quantify” or Qualify for a spot on this years’ all-star Team!. I love Joshs’ athleticism, love his passion, love his energy, however, he is clearly the 3rd or 4th option on any Basketball team.
Merry Christmas Josh(if you are reading this) Merry Christmas EVERYONE and may God Bless you all!!!
steve brown
December 25th, 2012
11:21 am
Keith said it all.
Rev in Tampa
December 25th, 2012
12:53 pm
Somebody needs to ask Jerry Stackhouse about LD’s coaching and conditioning. Last year Stack looked like an old man on the court, but now he is helping to carry the Nets. Maybe it will shed some light on why LD treats Ivan the way he does.
keith
December 25th, 2012
1:18 pm
“NEED FOR A GO TO GUY”
The Atlanta Hawks are a very “balanced” basketball team. However, going forward, you need at least one “Superstar”. When things go horribly wrong, we do not have that “one guy” who can get buckets when we need one!!!
Chris Vivlamore
December 25th, 2012
1:40 pm
Rev: Definitely on that next month.
EmirS.
December 25th, 2012
1:46 pm
Happy Holidays to everyone!
Luv Josh Smith
December 25th, 2012
1:49 pm
Very good article Chris!
Yes Josh is an All-Star. He was snubbed last year when he built his strongest case. He should be picked over Garnett and Bosh. His defense is under appreciated and he is an excellent passer.
FG% and FT% and not up to last years output, but he is clearly the Hawks best player.
Art Vandelay
December 25th, 2012
1:59 pm
The #1 reason Smith hasn’t been named to the All-Star team is that he simply doesn’t “get it.” Eight years into his career, he continues hoisting long jumpers and 3-pointers when he’s clearly a horrible outside shot (28.3 percent for his career, yet he’s shot 782 3-pointers and who knows how many horrible long twos!!) and no real prospects for improving it. He’s got all the physical tools of LeBron, but half of the basketball intellect. If Josh would just listen to his coaches (and everyone who knows even a little about basketball) and stay down in the post where he’s almost unstoppable, he would be a 55% shooter and average 20 ppg. Unfortunately, he sees himself as some sort of hybrid 2-3-4, when in reality he should be more of a 4-5 (yes, I think he could actually hold his own at center if needed). It’s a shame, because he really is an incredible talent and despite the pouting, an all-around good guy and solid member of the community. I hope one day he figures it all out, because it would be a joy to watch. Until then, we’ll continue having this discussion every year.
tyger
December 25th, 2012
2:07 pm
Josh is defacto a 3x All-star…
Barnum & Bailey circus aka NBA, stiffs him every year…
Defacto?
Would you trade Josh, straight up, for less than an Allstar?
2k Simulation:
Hawks w/ Gasol/Amare/Horford/Lou/Korver go 2-1 v SA/LAL/MIA…
Art Vandelay
December 25th, 2012
2:10 pm
And Joey, it’s not enough for Atlanta fans to vote Josh in. Fans around the country have to see a reason to vote for him, too, and he just hasn’t given them enough reason to choose him over the huge stars he’s competing with for the frontcourt spots.
High-sider
December 25th, 2012
2:11 pm
@vava74
“…the LAC have talent but have a fool on the bench who could not get past our zone D…” – vava74 @5:21am, 12/25/2012
Is that “fool” (on the Clippers’ bench) Coach (Vinny) Del Negro or Jamal Crawford? Please be advised that the Clippers (team) has won 13 consecutive games.
http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html
doc
December 25th, 2012
2:38 pm
Though it has never worked out for josh, he is our all star. Simply pit he gets the most votes for our team’s players each year. It desnt translate to a position because of how things are run by stern and the league. Josh is our top vote for all star and in the fans eyes, he is the best.
He has also been his own worst enemy in getting there by his actions against refs and forgetting to play on and leave us defenseless because of his egoistic self. Coaches see it and that is not team play coaches reward. He is not a superstar so he needs to plat by other rules if e wants or expects to make it beyond fandom adulation.
High Sider just got to two blogs ago.
nothing but respect bro. You know it.
Slimj hope you enjoy it if you get around to it, it is quirky, funny, about craziness, football thrown in and love winning out in the end. Bradley Cooper may pull at least an oscar nom for it. Edgy and good.
justahawkfan
December 25th, 2012
2:48 pm
The Nba want Josh on a big market team, that is why he or the hawks are never talked about on the either of the network shows. Magic Johnson keep putting trade ideas out there about Josh to Lakers for Gasol hoping the we will fall for it. Every week there are rumors placed out there about us trading Josh. If he is traded to or leaves for a large market team he will become a superstar and an all star immediately. Bank it!!
High-sider
December 25th, 2012
3:06 pm
“Unfortunately, he sees himself as some sort of hybrid 2-3-4, when in reality he should be more of a 4-5…” – Art Vandelay @1:59pm, 12/25/2012
How about (he, Josh Smith, sees himself as some sort of) a 1-2-3-4 hybrid with emphasis on the “ONE” (1)? I wish he (Josh Smith) and Al Horford would give the ball up to the guards after retrieving the defensive rebound(s). Neither player is a “‘Magic’ Johnson” or [a(n)] “LBJ” in the ball handling/playmaking “department.”
In all fairness, if this (Hawks) team maintains the 3rd seed in the Eastern Conference at the close of the All-Star voting/selection process and if Josh Smith has the Hawks’ best (all-around) individual stats, then it would be fitting for Josh Smith to represent the Hawks as an Eastern Conference All-Star (team member) this (up)coming February (2013).
Justahawkfan
December 25th, 2012
3:07 pm
If he leaves for one of those teams he will get those calls that don’t go his way now. He won’t have to argue with the officials, the scowl will leave his face and he will get all the endorsement he wants. Come to thinks of it, why would he want to stay.
doc
December 25th, 2012
3:07 pm
Nets are not a very god team. Any team having to use stackhouse 18mpg in over 1/2 of its games has very poor depth. Yes he was a hawks last year but played in only 30 games total and avg 9 mpg in doing so. They are critically thin and if deron doesnt find his mojo quickly or heh heh jj put them on his shoulders it could get real ugly. Like close to charlotte ugly.
My sleeper in the second half is denver who has played over 2/3 of their games on the road. If they get comfy at home look out.
My other sleeper is the hawks. If they continue to play this type of ball it could be impressive. I loked ahead. I am not saying they will win them all but there are very few, no way they can compete with these guys type games the way the rest of the league is stacking up now. Very few miami or knicks like teams on the schedule, spurs? I dont consider the celts unbeatable nor the lakers so it could be fun to watch these guys more as they hopefully get better.
High sider havent dsabled autocap yet on my ipad. Heh heh
High-sider
December 25th, 2012
3:14 pm
Slimjr,
Are your Knicks’ players wearing (some sort of) orange “fluorescent” unis (against the Lakers)? Wow!
High-sider
December 25th, 2012
3:27 pm
doc,
I respect you (too), Najeh Davenpoop, DawgNole, HawkFan, all other bloggers (even BravesFan79). As usual, I get “carried away.” [LOL]
Happy Holidays to all.
High-sider
December 25th, 2012
3:30 pm
^Correction: “…DawgNole, HawkFan [and]* all other bloggers (even BravesFan79).”
Bernie Matt
December 25th, 2012
4:07 pm
@ Keith – you don’t know what the hell you talking about. You and your booty partner Steve Brown, don’t know Basketball. Name an eastern conference allstar at forward not named Lebron or Melo, that deserves to be an all star before Josh. And don’t just throw out scoring numbers, be prepared for me to counter with scoring, rebound, assists, steals, blocks and overall defense as well as team record. CHUMPS!
Bernie Matt
December 25th, 2012
4:12 pm
@ Art Vandelay – you spent all that time contrasting Josh to Lebron, when there is one Lebron, but 11 other spots on the eastern conference allstar squad. you just a hater, josh must have it your girl or something.
Bernie Matt
December 25th, 2012
4:36 pm
I remember most of these same clowns saying Joe was more important to this franchise than Josh, some even said Marvin was more valuable to the hawks, now look at Joe’s current team. Marvin can hardly stay on the court, he’s so bad in Utah. Utah’s gm probably can’t wait to catch Ferry in a dark alley somewhere for duping him like that. But still you idiots will search and pull any lame reasoning at of your a$$ to hate on Josh and try to deny him. You haters are just sad! And on Christmas no less.
Art Vandelay
December 25th, 2012
4:44 pm
Actually, Bernie, if you’d bother reading what I wrote, you’d see that I mentioned LeBron in exactly one sentence, and that was to compare their athletic gifts (similar) and understanding of the game (not at all similar). Maybe you need to freshen up on your 8th grade reading comprehension lessons and stop badmouthing every poster who says something you don’t like. Looks like you spent from 4:00 to 4:36 writing a total of about 10 sentences, none of which say anything constructive at all.
Bernie Matt
December 25th, 2012
4:55 pm
If by constructive you mean tearing down the guy who has this team at 3rd place in the conference, then no. i don’t know how to say anything constructive. But speaking of 8th grade education, you should look up the definition of constructive, then look up the word destructive, then think again about which category, your post falls in. SUCKER!
Jamaaliver
December 25th, 2012
4:57 pm
Reasons Josh hasn’t been an All-Star:
Bad Attitude
Poor Shot Selection
Bad Decision Making with the Ball
He’s played well most of this calendar year. Last year Rondo deserved to be the replacement. (Leading the league in assists earns you that right.)
This year Smith has played well in spurts. It’s up to the coaches more than anything. Josh still argues with his coaches and scowls at referees. Takes plays off to complain and pouts on the bench.
Bernie Matt
December 25th, 2012
5:09 pm
Josh’s biggest mistake was coming into this league from high school and getting drafted by the hawks at 17, which was after Josh Childress, who is where now? If Josh goes to Indiana and dominates the NCAA for a year or 2, he comes into this league as a top 3 pick, and David Stern and the team he plays for takes a much different approach at marketing him. For goodness sakes Blake Griffin can only dunk and plays no defense, and you people come to Phillips arena and chear for him like he’s Dr. J.
Bernie Matt
December 25th, 2012
5:11 pm
I know it’s a hard pill to swallow, especially if you don’t know basketball and just listen to the pundits.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 25th, 2012
5:17 pm
FTPB
“if anything lin takes too much responsibility for his efforts and is very hard on himself. with one game if 38 pts in one game before the knicks game he said he was playing terrible this year
true stand up guy who will prove his worth and more stand up than 90%. compare uim to a guyvwith same experience as horford in conley is folly and you know it for a point guard.”
All I’m saying is that his undrafted status shouldn’t matter anymore now that his value has been recalibrated by the market. He shouldn’t be compared to other undrafted players anymore; he should be compared to other players who get paid $8 million a year (or who would get paid $8 million a year if not for the first round salary scale). Everything else you say may or may not be true.
I will point out, though, that his 38 point game came when Harden was injured. I think it’s clear that he can score, but it’s still a pretty wide open question whether a) he can score on a consistently winning team and b) whether he can run an offense like an NBA PG. As you know there are plenty of players in NBA history who could score a lot of points on losing teams but couldn’t do so on winning teams or adjust their games to make teammates better.
Art Vandelay
December 25th, 2012
5:18 pm
Once again, Bernie: your inability to understand basic English is both disheartening and hilarious at the same time. If you’d please take a moment (or several moments, in your case) to re-read what I wrote, you’d see the following statement: “…he really is an incredible talent and despite the pouting, an all-around good guy and solid member of the community. I hope one day he figures it all out, because it would be a joy to watch.”
Now, where did I “tear down the guy who has this team at 3rd place in the conference,” as you claim? And when are you going to actually say something that contributes to the conversation, instead of just calling people names because you disagree with us? My original comment clearly stated that Josh would be a no-brainer All Star selection if he would just stick to his strengths, but you chose to ignore that and focus only on the fact that I’m not willing to call.him the Greatest Hawk of All Time like you apparently think everyone should. Grow up and stop being such a whiny punk for a change.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 25th, 2012
5:25 pm
“If we win 50% of those matches, I will be impressed. Until then, I still think we are bound for a 38-42 win season and a couple of 6 or 7 games losing streaks are lurking.”
Haha @ “matches”. It’s hard to remember sometimes that you are foreign but sometimes it slips through.
One thing I’ll add to what you said: some bad teams impact strength of schedule a lot worse than others. I think it’s fair to say that Detroit and Washington, for example, both qualify as “bad”. If the Hawks lost to either team it would be very disappointing. But Washington, at .120, is going to impact strength of schedule more than twice as much as Detroit, at .300. A team with a lot of games against the Wizards is going to look like they have had a much easier schedule than a team with an equal number of games against Detroit, even though both schedules in reality are about equally easy.
Bernie Matt
December 25th, 2012
5:32 pm
Not the greatest of all time, just the best in the last 5 years when you wanted that title to go to Joe “choke” Johnson. your comments about sticking to his strengths, show that you are biased even while tryin to hide it. You can’t say anything bad personaly about him in the community or getting in trouble because he sticks to his own and doesn’t pander to the northside community. That’s yall real issue with him. Afterall, what player in the league does not take a bad shot sometimes, but I would venture to say that if the bad shots came as often as you people try to make them out, again we would not be in 3rd place in the conference. SUCKER!
Bernie Matt
December 25th, 2012
5:43 pm
Okay Vandelay, let’s approach it from your supposed angle. 16.6ppg, 8.2pp, 3.5apg, 2 bpg, 1.42spg. .366% from beyond the arc. Only taking 15 shots per game. Al next at 13 shots a game. Now, exactly what area of his game would like him to play more to his strengths as you say.
See, the numbers are like the ball “they don’t lie”. so don’t talk to me about a bad shot now and again. Stick to the numbers if you know the game. See alot of people who can afford good seats at the arena think they know the game. NOT!
And keep in mind these numbers are on a winning team, cause anyone can get numbers for a losing team, cause after all someone has to score, and the ball will find your hand for a rebound or 2 even on a losing squad, but such is not the case here. And ya’ll can no longer give Joe the credit.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 25th, 2012
5:45 pm
“Eight years into his career, he continues hoisting long jumpers and 3-pointers when he’s clearly a horrible outside shot (28.3 percent for his career, yet he’s shot 782 3-pointers and who knows how many horrible long twos!!) and no real prospects for improving it. ”
Dwyane Wade is a career 29% 3 point shooter and has jacked up 1131 of them in his career, including three years when he was over 2.5 attempts per game. Poor shot selection didn’t stop him from being selected for the team over and over again. Neither did it stop Rasheed Wallace, Stephon Marbury, and other lesser players who also had shot selection issues.
“He’s got all the physical tools of LeBron, but half of the basketball intellect. ”
LeBron has physical strength and ball skills that Josh can only dream of having.
This is the biggest thing that has kept Josh out of the All Star game in my opinion — unrealistic expectations. There is a large contingent of fans (and maybe even coaches and personnel people) who think anyone that can jump out of the gym has unlimited potential. That is plainly and simply false. Ball skills and physical ability are two entirely different things. Josh has amazing athleticism but his ball skills are average. (Great passer for his position; mediocre ball handler and shooter.) LeBron has amazing athleticism AND amazing ball skills, and that has been the case since his first game in the league.
“If Josh would just listen to his coaches (and everyone who knows even a little about basketball) and stay down in the post where he’s almost unstoppable, he would be a 55% shooter and average 20 ppg.”
a) Josh has one, maybe two, reliable post moves. He is nowhere near “unstoppable” in the post. He is the best low post player on this team, but that is only because this team hasn’t had a low post player since Shareef Abdur-Rahim (and he wasn’t a stellar low post player either).
b) LD has made it pretty clear that he doesn’t want Josh in the low post all the time, or else he wouldn’t be running plays for him to get the ball 18 feet away from the basket. The deadly high-low game that Josh and Al have had going for them this year starts with Josh getting the ball inside the free throw line circle. And it’s not just Josh that LD has in this area — even Zaza and Ivan routinely find themselves there.
“Unfortunately, he sees himself as some sort of hybrid 2-3-4, when in reality he should be more of a 4-5 (yes, I think he could actually hold his own at center if needed).”
More like the Hawks use him in ways that push the limits of his ability because there isn’t a better player on this roster. In the 2009-10 season, Josh’s most efficient season of his career, he was used as a glorified role player. The consequence of that, though, was that Joe was used beyond the limits of his ability. And the consequence of this was that anyone who could shut down Joe could shut down the Hawks’ offense. The last two years, with Joe’s skills declining (and now with him gone), Josh is the guy who gets used beyond his ability. If Josh were traded tomorrow, Al would probably be that guy, and his shot selection would get worse and percentages would decline accordingly.
In the NBA, someone has to be a #1 option. For the last two years on the Hawks, that someone has been Josh. Josh does not have the talent to be a #1 option but he is forced into that role due to the composition of the roster. Using shot selection as a reason for excluding someone from the All Star game is foolish without considering that player’s role and responsibilities. Bottom line is for the last two years Josh has been the best player on a playoff team and one of the premier defenders in the league. There is no good reason to leave him off, especially in favor of lesser players with fewer responsibilities like Roy Hibbert or Luol Deng (who made it over him last year).
Najeh Davenpoop
December 25th, 2012
5:54 pm
“Fans around the country have to see a reason to vote for him, too, and he just hasn’t given them enough reason to choose him over the huge stars he’s competing with for the frontcourt spots.”
Nothing is going to give them that reason as long as the Hawks are ignored by the national media. Andrew Bynum is one spot behind Josh and the only reason he has given fans to vote him is his hair.
Don’t get me wrong, there are several valid reasons to criticize Josh’s game. But the All Star game is about picking the best players. If an inferior player makes it over Josh, he is a snub, period. Whatever criticisms there are of Josh have to be considered in the context of the valid criticisms of the players who make it ahead of him. And when 7′2″ centers who rebound worse than Josh, shoot under 50%, and shoulder less than half Josh’s responsibility make it over him, there is something wrong with the process.
Please Answer This
December 25th, 2012
6:02 pm
Why do any of you care whether or not Josh is selected to an exibition game? What is in it for you ? How could his selection possibly affect the outcome of the Hawks current season?
Please ! Someone help me to understand this mysterious, but obvious preoccupation with this ALL-Star selection stuff.
I’m completely in the dark as to what relevance this game has to do with the Atlanta Hawks or the quality of any of your lives.
Please fill me in.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 25th, 2012
6:03 pm
“Josh still argues with his coaches and scowls at referees. Takes plays off to complain and pouts on the bench.”
Rondo argues with his coaches, argues with his GM, scowls at referees (like everyone else in the league), pouts, feuds with his teammates, picks fights with opponents and gets suspended and costs his team games, and still goes to the All Star game over and over again. And if you think he pouts on the bench, you should buy some 100 level tickets some time. Dude is the first one out of his seat cheering when the second unit does something spectacular.
Bernie Matt
December 25th, 2012
6:08 pm
@ pleas answer this- if it matters not to you, why are you posting here, IDIOT! Me personally, I got a new laptop today and am test driving it and posting on a subject of interest to me. But again, if you could care less, why are you here, STUPID!
doc
December 25th, 2012
6:11 pm
najeh, if you were saying conley us a good comparison because of his salary though i think conley has the edge experience wise after looking one could say lin is clearly superior based in stats i just pulled up for conley:
http://www.nba-scores.com/players/mike-conley.html
conley isnt in same league inferior in every category except steals which conley may lead the league.
maybe you need to change upur perspective on lin or understand better your bias against him.
Please Answer This
December 25th, 2012
6:12 pm
You’re calling me an Idiot and yet you’re obviously incapable of answering the question that I asked ?
Yet you drivel on about some new laptop computer?
Answer the damn question!
Bernie Matt
December 25th, 2012
6:15 pm
@ please answer – see I knew you were stupid, you came back to waste your time even more.
Please Answer This
December 25th, 2012
6:17 pm
Bernie Matt,
You’re embarrassing yourself.
Bernie Matt
December 25th, 2012
6:24 pm
@ please – you’re the one who came here wondering why the rest of us cared so much. Yet here your are. I think the readers would say that you’re embarrassing yourself.
doc
December 25th, 2012
6:47 pm
majeh not really sure about thise stats but these still show you can throw a blanket over the two. yeas conley better but not that superior a lin is 12/6 and conley 14/6. lin is younger in experience and a better scorer than conley. also lin saved the knicks last year and without him they dont get in playoffs maybe though he wasnt there at the end. so he can score, dish and win. he also is very close to conley in bith stats and salary. so what is your prob bro.
i feel a per coming. heh heh
SteveW
December 25th, 2012
7:14 pm
Josh is 27, not 26
vava74
December 25th, 2012
7:18 pm
Excellent posts Najeh… Blunt and on target.
keith
December 25th, 2012
7:37 pm
Bernie Matt…….”just say no!!!!!!!!!!!”
If for some strange reason Josh Smith makes the all-star team, quite frankly, he does not deserve it…..
keith
December 25th, 2012
7:41 pm
Metta World War Vs. Knicks= Grown man Basketball
If All-Scrub Josh Smith and Al Horford played collectively with half the passion I saw today from Metta, Kobe, Pau, Tyson Chandler, on and on… Hawks would be undefeated right now!!!
doc
December 25th, 2012
7:51 pm
najeh
http://www.nba-scores.com/players/mike-conley.html
sorry a few distractions this time if year
Rod from College Park
December 25th, 2012
7:53 pm
“I remember most of these same clowns saying Joe was more important to this franchise than Josh, some even said Marvin was more valuable to the hawks, now look at Joe’s current team. Marvin can hardly stay on the court, he’s so bad in Utah.”
I remember those clowns as well. Do I need to name names?
Rev in Tampa
December 25th, 2012
7:57 pm
LeQueen’s streak of 254 minutes without committing a foul ended tonight. Stern will be having a discipinary meeting with the officiating crew of the Heat/Thunder game to fire them.
Rev in Tampa
December 25th, 2012
8:01 pm
I am 0 for 2 today. I wanted the Nets to beat the Celtics because I despise all things Boston. I wanted the Knicks to embarass the Lakers to further humilate Dwight on national TV. I am pulling for the Thunder to bring the Hawks a half-game closer to the Southeastern Division lead. I don’t care about the last two games.
drmaryb.(""_*).
December 25th, 2012
8:05 pm
I Got $5 On It!
I’m putting my money on Bernie Matt and, his new lap top. Child Please!
Rev in Tampa
December 25th, 2012
8:06 pm
Dr Mary,
Many Blessings!
Nate ArchiBALL
December 25th, 2012
8:11 pm
R f CP — Name names. I would to see if they respond……
drmaryb.(""_*).
December 25th, 2012
8:15 pm
Rev in Tampa!
Ha Ha! My friend … Many Blessings to you and your family too.
Merry X-mas to all my wonderful, itelligent, bright, passionate cohorts on the Super Hawks Blog today!
BEAT the HEAT!
Let’s Go OKC!
drmaryb.(""_*).
December 25th, 2012
8:16 pm
All Star!
JOSH IS MY PERSONAL ALL STAR!!!!! The NBA can kick rocks … And, eat snot. [lol]
SteveW
December 25th, 2012
8:18 pm
One year they put KG ahead of Josh for old times sake.
Last year Hibbert got in because the Pacers had a good record and they needed somebody from their team. Iggy and Deng were playing great, but still marginal All Stars at best.
And Josh was snubbed on that Rondo selection. No doubt about it. JJ was a G as was Rondo? All I could figure.
drmaryb.(""_*).
December 25th, 2012
8:27 pm
* intelligent
Nate ArchiBALL
December 25th, 2012
8:34 pm
Rondo was suspended for the following incident right before the All-Star game. Rondo was then named to the 2011-12 All-Star team as an injury replacement by David Stern……
Feb 20th 2012 – “Boston Celtics All-Star point guard Rajon Rondo was ejected from a Sunday night game against the Pistons in Detroit for throwing the basketball at referee Sean Wright after he did not receive a foul call on a drive to the basket. The ejection — prompted by two back-to-back technical fouls — came in the third quarter of a 96-81 loss to the Pistons.
The NBA announced on Monday that Rondo would be suspended for two games without pay for “throwing a ball at an official and striking him in the chest.”
Rondo will serve his suspension during road games against the Dallas Mavericks on Monday and Oklahoma City Thunder on Wednesday. He will be available again after the All-Star break, during a Feb. 28 game against the Cavaliers in Cleveland.”
And Josh is suppose to be a bad guy because he argues with refs……Most refs when they’ve heard enough will drop a tech on you
Check out the lead leaders in techs
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/fouls/sort/technicalFouls
Josh in a tie for 19th place.
keith
December 25th, 2012
8:40 pm
I hope our Hawks were watching Knicks v. Lakers and OKC v. Heat…..Championship intensity “all day long”!!!!! Grown Man Basketball being played to the highest. All-star Al Horford will benefit if he gets a little “Metta World War” in him and stop playing “SOFT” Al ball!!! GO HAWKS!!!
Merry Christmas Al and the Atlanta Hawks Org…..
Sameba
December 25th, 2012
8:53 pm
Terrible referees at OKC vs Heat. No call at the end of the game when Durant dunked (Chalmers clearly hit KD’s hand) and especially when Westbrook attempted 3-pointer and was clearly fouled. Thus not only our Hawks suffer from referees in NBA…
High-sider
December 25th, 2012
9:03 pm
Heat silences Thunder, 103 – 97.
The Heat and Thunder shot 19-of-19 and 32-of-38 from the FT line, respectively; (the) Heat defeated (the) Thunder by six (points). Was that (variance in free throws made between the two teams) the difference in the outcome (game)?
http://www.nba.com/games/20121225/OKCMIA/gameinfo.html?ls=iref:nbahpgt0021200407
Please Answer This
December 25th, 2012
9:19 pm
At this point, I’m assuming that the consensus here is that there is no logical explanation for this blogs fixation on which players are selected to participate in an exhibition game?
But that you still are anyway.
With your obvious reason being….
Well, just because we are.
High-sider
December 25th, 2012
9:22 pm
@Rev in Tampa
————————————————-
Rev in Tampa
December 25th, 2012
8:01 pm
I am 0 for 2 today. I wanted the Nets to beat the Celtics because I despise all things Boston. I wanted the Knicks to embarass the Lakers to further humilate Dwight on national TV. I am pulling for the Thunder to bring the Hawks a half-game closer to the Southeastern Division lead. I don’t care about the last two games.
————————————————-
Make that 0 for 3 today (or tonight).
Bernie Matt
December 25th, 2012
9:30 pm
@ Keith- You can always tell who really knows the NBA game and who is just a punk trying to be hard talking about “grown man ball”. Metta can play like that cause that’s his role. The Lakers don’t count on him to have the ball in his hands at the end of games. They don’t even rely on him to be on the floor at the end, you won’t ever see Pau or Dwight or Kobe playing with that enforcer mentality, but you want Josh and Al, guys who we depend on to be on the floor at the end to play like Metta.
Punk , it’s obvious you don’t know the NBA game, tryin to live out your fantasies, talking about grown man ball. Metta’s role on that team would be comparable to Ivan on the hawks team, so if you had any clue you would have kept that stupid post, because Ivan does infact play that way. DUMMY!
High-sider
December 25th, 2012
9:35 pm
Rockets (team is) blowin’ the britches off the Bulls in Chicago. What a homecoming for (Omer) Asik!
Bernie Matt
December 25th, 2012
9:42 pm
@ keith – if the knicks wanted Melo to be out there tryin to push people around and pick up cheap fouls, why do you think they still have Kurt Thomas playing. DUMMY!
High-sider
December 25th, 2012
10:02 pm
For the record, I realize that there is more than one way to calculate “per-minute(s)” stats. For example, you can calculate “points per minute” (pt(s)/min(s)) as follows:
1. total points [scored] divided by total minutes [played] (total points / total minutes)
or
2. (average) points [scored] per game divided by (average) minutes [played] per game ((points/game) / (minutes/game))
I just had to “put that out there.”
Talkin’ about an ANAL-MINDED MORON (BLOGGER); I guess that’s me. (LOL)
Oh yeah, I got respect for you, too, vava74.
Buddy Grizzard
December 25th, 2012
10:15 pm
Vava ftpb: Can’t argue with you.
Nate ArchiBALL
December 25th, 2012
10:31 pm
Bulls are on a roll. Back to back L’s – The Hawks by 17 points and the Rockets by 23 points.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 25th, 2012
10:32 pm
“maybe you need to change upur perspective on lin or understand better your bias against him.”
Saying that a guy needs more than a half a season’s worth of starts to determine that he is worth his contract means I have a “bias” against him?
Buddy Grizzard
December 25th, 2012
10:38 pm
“there might be 50 better offers in the league for a player like Derrick whose potential is significant”
Don’t forget the Hawks have picks. We have an extra first rounder this year if Houston stays in playoff position, which they look like they will.
Buddy Grizzard
December 25th, 2012
10:59 pm
Hawks have talent to win a chip per Josh:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-dont-overlook-the-atlanta-hawks/
doc
December 25th, 2012
11:16 pm
yeah, jeremy lin sucks
nash numbers tonight
Roger
December 25th, 2012
11:16 pm
Enter your comments here
Roger
December 25th, 2012
11:21 pm
Josh is the best front runner in the nba. Whenever things go bad he starts pouting walking up and down the floor. He cannot dribble or shoot! If he couldn’t jump he would not be in the nba! All star are you kidding me?
High-sider
December 25th, 2012
11:22 pm
Jamal Crawford with that behind-the-back, shake-and-back…wow!!!!!
doc
December 25th, 2012
11:23 pm
again najeh the guy says he has been terrible all the while putting u close to the nimbers of the giy you asked to compare him too
cant wait until he gets more “unterrible”, gets in synch with his running mate and offense of which he has been a part of for less than thirty games then see what you think of him. usually you are pretty measured and pragmatic. this one something is getting in the way. kind of surprises me. new team, comeback from surgery, new flashy teammate as the season starts without preseason then head coach out for half the season to spend appropriate time with family as his daughter dies then all the emotion in coming back? they have been thru the grinder and the better they get the better our chances for a draft pick. cudos to all of them.
High-sider
December 26th, 2012
12:54 am
He’s (Jamal Crawford) an incredible bad shot-maker.” – Jeff Van Gundy, ESPN NBA Analyst
“I was really surprised that (the) Atlanta (Hawks) didn’t re-sign him (Jamal Crawford).” – Jeff Van Gundy, ESPN NBA Analyst
vava74
December 26th, 2012
3:34 am
High-sider,
The fool on the Clippers bench who failed to do anything against our zone D is Vinny.
They are indeed winning, but they are probably doing it on sheer talent, not coaching from the bench.
Crawford is indeed playing out of his mind THIS year, clearly his best season ever.
Off-season training and Chris Paul / Bledsoe can do that to you (Paul because he improves everyone playing along side him and Bledsoe because he is good enough for Vinny not to play Jamal at the PG slot).
But they guy who would like to have from the Clips bench is Barnes, who is playing at a very high level. Should be our starting SF… :-S
vava74
December 26th, 2012
3:39 am
High-sider,
van Gundy’s commentary is absurd.
Jamal was looking for a 10 million deal and we didn’t have the cap space to re-sign him, much less at the price level that he wanted to re-sign.
My gripe was never about Jamal: I always said that if I were the HC I would like to have him since I knew how to use him, but how LD used him.
Jamal CAN’T play PG and LD could not resit playing him there, the same way that he tends to play Lou at PG with mixed results, at best, since he does have a bit more PG skills.
Smokey
December 26th, 2012
4:41 am
on point as usual vava74
LouWill83
December 26th, 2012
7:44 am
Josh Smith will get an All Star selection this year no question. Isn’t he any more valuable to his team than Luol Deng was to the Bulls last year?
As a 3rd seed in the east I think it’s only fair our top player who impacts the game so much on both ends of the floor gets the nod!!
As far to what it does to Hawks Fans, I think we can all agree that maybe it would be the tipping point for Josh if he gets selected that he is now regarded as an “All Star”. For me I always feel he is playing with the thought that he is underrated and doesn’t get the credit he deserves and that in turn sometimes pushes him to force his game, argue with refs (Thinking he isnt getting the calls).. Heck im sure the refs would start blowing those whistles a lot more in his favor.
& Come to Think of it Josh is made for the all star game, I mean highlight wise who wouldnt want to see that vicious left handed alley oop slam. I mean im sure he s a lot more entertaining to watch then Hibbert or Deng, Come on now
GO HAWKS!!!
Mike is Back
December 26th, 2012
8:14 am
CV, With the current talent level of current and upcoming All Stars…HE HAS TO BE…qualified on that level too. Some of the Big Name All Stars in the EC of late…have aged and are well past their prime…so I would say…YES Josh is an All Star.
However, in order for Josh to be considered amongst the ELITE in the game…he has to polish up his act…AND become a FULL TIME PROFESSIONAL…whenever he steps on the court.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please Answer This
December 26th, 2012
8:32 am
Finally someone weighs in with an explanation! Thanks you LW83.
That being, that it may cause Josh to play more within himself and stop forcing things (jumpers?). And might possibly cause the refs to give him more calls?
While the latter (getting calls) is generally considered to be true, at least with some selected players, are there any reference points that you can think of that would suggest that players’ generally play smarter and stop forcing things “in order to gain respect” after being selected for the exhibition game?
If there is any truth to this, it would actually affect the Hawks basketball team and season. Which would obviously affect people who support Hawks basketball.
Rev in Tampa
December 26th, 2012
8:39 am
if the hawks remain the solid 3rd seed in the east and are nipping at the heat’s heels at the all-star break, then the hawks MUST have a representative. I am certain that josh would get the nod over al. Anyone in a position to make the decision on who gets an invite to the all-star would surely know that the hawks are only going as far as josh takes them. Even much of al’s success can easily be attributed to how’s facilitation
Rev in Tampa
December 26th, 2012
8:50 am
How’s = josh’s. Stupid android auto spell check.
SteveW
December 26th, 2012
9:03 am
If the Hawks are still 3rd seed, they probably get two All Star reps: Josh and Al. Especially if Al picks up his game a little. 17 and 10 would be difficult to keep out of the AS Game in the East if Al got there.
Duluth Joe
December 26th, 2012
9:31 am
Josh should be an all star this year.
Honestly, even last year Josh should have been an All Star. He should have ranked higher than Hibbert or Deng. Hibbert impact should not be looked at purely in terms of numbers and he was primary reason Pacers were doing good. Deng was the lone other Chicago All Star(Besides Rose), so no way Hawks should have had more representatives than Chicago (not saying Deng is better than Josh, no way). Josh should have been ahead of Pierce and Iggy. Iggy was the lone Sixers representative, so it is understandable. But even Pierce didn’t think his performance was All Star worthy if memory serves.
As for only weakness in Josh’s game taking outside shots he shouldn’t(he is passing the ball more to the point guard this year so that is not a weakness any more, or at least not as strong a weakness), it is what the team needs and Larry Drew doesn’t have an issue with that. No Josh should not be taking all the shots he does, but if you watch the games, lots of times ball is passed to him with only a few left on shot clock. So he has to take the shot. He is almost like a safety valve. As good as Al is, he does pass the ball up a lot (instead of taking a bad shot).
With all that said, the impact Josh has on both ends = All Star. The only reason he is not, is prejudice by coaches against him based on out of date (old) misconceptions and impressions.
Duluth Joe
December 26th, 2012
9:40 am
Najeh, why do you have an issue with Lin contract?
drmaryb.(""_*).
December 26th, 2012
9:51 am
Preach! Tabernacle!
Duluth Joe
December 26th, 2012
9:31 am
_________________
Amen! Nuff Said! I’m buying this! Just pass the plate – I’m tithing 20%.
Duluth Joe
December 26th, 2012
10:39 am
Thank-you DrMaryB. I really hope Josh makes it.
As a hometown player, he has played under microscope his entire career. At the end, he has been a solid citizen on and off the court. And given Hawks fans a lot to be thankful for ( and admittedly a few grey hairs along the way too
)
Rod from College Park
December 26th, 2012
10:49 am
“I was really surprised that (the) Atlanta (Hawks) didn’t re-sign him (Jamal Crawford).” – Jeff Van Gundy, ESPN NBA Analyst”
I was too. No better value in the NBA.
“Jamal was looking for a 10 million deal and we didn’t have the cap space to re-sign him, much less at the price level that he wanted to re-sign.”
Not true, and you can not find anything in writing that says that. Unless you are his agent, you have not idea what he was asking for. I will pose this question to you though, If Marvin was worth 8 mil per to the Hawks, Joe was worth 20 mil per to the Hawks, and Horford was worth 12 mil per to the Hawks, what was Jamal worth to the Hawks, when he basically became the go to guy along with Joe in the playoffs?
Hawks Fan
December 26th, 2012
11:15 am
Please Danny get rid of the real cancer of the franchise L.D.
doc
December 26th, 2012
11:25 am
rod, rod rod, problem is those two guys, marvin and jj, were already signed. we were trapped by this. i said it before in my earlier piece that once it was determined jj was going to be kept, jamal could not be afforded because they had so much wrapped up in “pieces” already signed to guaranteed contracts. why continue rod to spew this.
me, i was on record when jamal was traded for, that he was insurance to make sure we didnt pay too much for jj. if jj didnt go for a realistic number to put pieces around him we could get extras and have as potent an offensive force in jamal. rod, not sure why you ignore the facts of nba economics.
as an aside, i agree with you and look at jamal and even jeremy lin as guys like golfers that can shoot low scores and they are not afraid to do it. it is a mentality that not many have. of course in basketball it is about not being afraid to get high numbers and score the ball. some have it some don’t. kobe has it, lbj has it, mj had it, magic had it, i think jamal is in that territory as well, that he isnt afraid to score and keep scoring. lin has it too for a guy who played ball at harvard, then steps onto the big court with the big lights and pours it on when hot. jamal has it. jj and marvin dont. that frustrated the h3ll out of me. jj gets 20 in a half and finishes with 24 for example. it is like his work is done. jamal knows no limits.
reality though is once the jj contract was signed unless jamal was willing to accept a contract in the neighborhood of 2 mil, he wasnt going to be invited back. that was because a roster had to be filled out with 13 players under a target salary cap with rick sund and the basg were in charge wanting to sell the franchise. almost everyone except for you understood it rod. jamal did too and maybe that was why he was a bit inconsistent that contract year. his agent knew it too if he was smart. now why dont you? where is the gap for you rod, where, between fantasy and reality to keep railing on?
jamal’s worth was determined by the guys already signed rod to guaranteed contracts, got it?
doc
December 26th, 2012
11:30 am
rod in others words, it had nothing to do with performance jamal’s, mavin’s, nor jj’s. it had to do with playing monopoly in the nba. did we have enough money to buy park ave? we didn’t. it doesnt matter how much we wanted it, we dont play with that type of change.
Mark
December 26th, 2012
11:50 am
I remember Jay Bilas draft night went on and on about how Smith would never amount to much in the league. I remember then hoping he would prove another talking head wrong and he did. Smith along with Horford were the only two players of the recent run that actually looked like they gave a damn about winning or loosing. He should be an all star and I hope the Hawks resign him long term.
doc
December 26th, 2012
11:57 am
what a great quote from coach larry brown:
“I don’t look at mirrors or celebrate birthdays,” he said. “Otherwise, I feel exactly like I did when I was coach’s assistant at North Carolina.”
yes.
Nate ArchiBALL
December 26th, 2012
11:58 am
“LeQueen’s streak of 254 minutes without committing a foul ended tonight.”
Should read without having one called – not committed. That’s 5+ complete games without having a foul called…..impossible.
Just Joe
December 26th, 2012
11:59 am
Frontcourt Allstar Pool: Lebron, Bosh, Melo, Chandler, KG, Pierce, Deng, Noah, B. Lopez, Verejao, Josh, and Al.
Not sure how the new rules work. How many can make it?
Just Joe
December 26th, 2012
12:06 pm
Player – Pts & Rebounds
Lebron – 25 & 8
Bosh – 17 & 7
Melo – 28 & 6
Chandler – 12 & 9
KG – 15 & 7
Pierce – 20 & 5
Deng – 17 & 7
Noah – 13 & 10
Lopez – 17 & 7
Verejao – 14 & 14
Josh – 16 & 8
Al – 15 & 9
vava74
December 26th, 2012
12:31 pm
Rod,
“Not true, and you can not find anything in writing that says that. Unless you are his agent, you have not idea what he was asking for. I will pose this question to you though, If Marvin was worth 8 mil per to the Hawks, Joe was worth 20 mil per to the Hawks, and Horford was worth 12 mil per to the Hawks, what was Jamal worth to the Hawks, when he basically became the go to guy along with Joe in the playoffs?”
1. Jamal spent the WHOLE summer waiting for high(er) offers and finally settled for his real market value of 5 million (it can be argued that this year’s Jamal is finally worth 10 million when in reality he never was before, maybe apart from his 1st season with us).
2. Jamal was very productive against ORL (4 or 5 out of 6 games) and had ONE good game against CHI and another decent one. He was a complete non-factor offensively on 4 of the 6 games of the CHI series and a huge defensive liability on all of them (everyone scored on him – literally everyone) .
3. Marvin was already under contract and its obvious that his 7 million (the average is 7.5) were far too much for his production and a bad contract.
JJ’s contract price was established by the market, so the matter was either sign him or try to work a sign and trade or let him go.
Horford may or may not be slightly overpriced at 12 million (depending on him abandoning his “Diaper Al” mode or not) and the reality is that size gets more $$ usually.
If you claim that the Hawks were unimaginative in the management to the point of absolute boredom and that caused a miss management of assets, I will obviously agree, being that the discussion about management foul play should start with the HC position which was occupied by a good guy and good manager whose X’s and O’s knowledge is rock bottom (Woody) and an idiot whose X’s and O’s are good.
Jay Dubu
December 26th, 2012
12:35 pm
Both Josh and Al should (need) to average double doubles in points and rebounds this season, and with the number of shots tat Josh takes, he needs to be a 20 10 player.
Right now, neither of them are averaging double digit rebounds.
JOE
December 26th, 2012
12:50 pm
Bernie,Art I hope the two of you are friends it ain’t that serious.My question is What is the HAWKS MISSING.NAJAH WHAT DO YOU THINK.I LIKE TO HERE IT.
drmaryb.(""_*).
December 26th, 2012
12:52 pm
NFL Power Rankings [Top Five]
_________________________
1 Broncos 12-3
Last Week: 2 Ten consecutive wins and counting. Talk about hot entering the playoffs. (Fox)
2 Falcons 13-2 Last Week: 5 Matt Ryan completed all seven play-action attempts with three TDs against the Lions. (Sando)
3 49ers 10-4-1 Last Week: 1 Injuries to Justin Smith, Vernon Davis and Mario Manningham raise some concerns. (Sando)
4 Packers 11-4 Last Week: 6 The preseaon favorites could be peaking at the right time. Who’ll want to play them in the postseason? (Graziano)
5 Patriots 11-4 Last Week: 4 The Patriots weren’t the Patriots on Sunday, but they did enough to notch 11 wins for the third straight season. (Hensley)
___________________________________________
Let’s Go Hawks!
Rod from College Park
December 26th, 2012
12:56 pm
“If you claim that the Hawks were unimaginative in the management to the point of absolute boredom and that caused a miss management of assets, I will obviously agree,”
Of course that is what I’m saying. We were paying two other bums (Marvin Williams and Kirk Hinrich) almost 16 million dollars. To you and doc, the NBA has this thing called TRADES. We could have traded one of those bums, especially Kirk Hinrich, who has such high baskeball IQ, and any team would love to have him. Can’t say it could not be done, because Ferry did it. Any number of things could have been done. The bottom line is Jamal signed for 5 mil, if we gave him a dollar more he would have stayed, and there were numerous ways to get that done. All the other nonsense both of you are spewing is just that nonsense.
“2. Jamal was very productive against ORL (4 or 5 out of 6 games) and had ONE good game against CHI and another decent one. He was a complete non-factor offensively on 4 of the 6 games of the CHI series and a huge defensive liability on all of them (everyone scored on him – literally everyone.”
If I am correct the guys that desroyed us in the Chicago series were Derrick Rose, and Luol Deng. Rose was mostly being guarded by Jeff Teague, and Jamal’s man was either Keith Bogans or Ronny Brewer. I don’t remember those guys killing us on the offensive end. We both know he was not guarding Luol Deng, so one again, you are spewing falsehoods. Secondly other than Joe Johnson, and maybe Josh Smith, can you please name another player on our team that year that had better numbers than Jamal in the playoffs? I’ll be waiting. LOL
Rod from College Park
December 26th, 2012
1:11 pm
“Matt Barnes added 20 points — one off his season high — as the bench outscored the Clippers’ starters 64-48 in moving one win ahead of second-best Oklahoma City (21-6), which had lost to Miami earlier Tuesday.
Jamal Crawford led a dominant performance by the Los Angeles reserves with 22 points in a 112-100 victory over the Denver Nuggets on Tuesday night, extending the team’s franchise-record winning streak while claiming the best record in the NBA at 22-6.
“It’s about getting better and better,” Crawford said. “We’re trying to stay locked in and focused.”
I find it really interesting that the Clippers are the third best defensive team in the league with that no defense playing Jamal Crawford playing Major minutes. Very interesting……. Also Matt Barnes is making 1.2 mil this year, and we still have no SF. Also Andray Blatche is making the minimum. Would you rather either of those guys, or Anthony Tolliver? Shall we say SCOUTING DEPARTMENT. Step up Mr. Ferry, and get us a legit SF in here to balance this team out.
terrell
December 26th, 2012
1:46 pm
Deron Williams and Joe Johnson
Two of the most OVERRATED players ever. Lmao. I love you DF.
terrell
December 26th, 2012
1:50 pm
Deron calling out his coach AGAIN. I guess BK knew something that we didnt. lol
SteveW
December 26th, 2012
1:55 pm
JJ – Usually 7 frontcourt guys and 5 guards. May go 8 and 4 depending on the circumstances.
First year no C position, just frontcourt guys. Last year no Hibbert if that would have been the case.
SteveW
December 26th, 2012
1:57 pm
Rod – Jamal signed for the mid level when he left. Did we not offer him at least the mid level? LD didn’t know how to use Jamal anyway…
ag
December 26th, 2012
2:02 pm
Rod, I do agree that the last couple of seasons, the Hawks really missed out of some decent free agents. Yes, Lou Williams was a great addition, but the Hawks could have signed JJ Hickson. I also did not understand why we ran away from Blanche.
Admiral SnAckbar
December 26th, 2012
2:26 pm
I don’t see how Josh makes it.
Bosh, Pierce, Melo, KG, Love, AllStarAl.
nimbers don’t work.
Rod from College Park
December 26th, 2012
2:45 pm
“The Blazers made it official a few hours later on Thursday when they announced they had signed Crawford. The deal is for two years and $10 million, with a player option for his second year, sources told ESPN The Magazine’s Chris Broussard.
Crawford chose Portland over Sacramento, which was offering a two-year deal worth $6.5 million per season, and New York, which offered $5 million over two years, sources told Broussard.”
But according to Vava, Jamal was asking for 10 mil per? May I ask where you got your info from?
High-sider
December 26th, 2012
2:56 pm
@vava74
“Crawford is indeed playing out of his mind THIS year, clearly his best season ever.” – vava74 @3:34am, 12/25/2012
Jamal Crawford’s partial NBA stats:
2012 – 2013: 16.5ppg through 28 games played (season incomplete)
2009 – 2010: 18.0ppg in 79 games played (SMOY season)
2008 – 2009: 19.7ppg in 65 games played
2007 – 2008: 20.6ppg in 80 games played
2006 – 2007: 17.6ppg in 59 games played
2004 – 2005: 17.7ppg in 70 games played
2003 – 2004: 17.3ppg in 80 games played
“http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/crawfja01.html”
“1. Jamal spent the WHOLE summer waiting for high(er) offers and finally settled for his real market value of 5 million (it can be argued that this year’s Jamal is finally worth 10 million when in reality he never was before, maybe apart from his 1st season with us).” – vava74 @12:31pm, 12/26/2012
If Jamal (Crawford) is (arguably) finally worth $10mil. (per year) this season, then was he (Jamal) worth more (millions) in previous seasons when he (Jamal Crawford) averaged more points per game (see above list)? Please keep in mind that the new CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) implemented in 2011 reduced players’ salaries.
“2. Jamal was very productive against ORL (4 or 5 out of 6 games) and had ONE good game against CHI and another decent one. He was a complete non-factor offensively on 4 of the 6 games of the CHI series and a huge defensive liability on all of them (everyone scored on him – literally everyone).” – vava74 @12:31pm, 12/26/2012
Maybe, Jamal’s subpar performance against the Bulls in the 2011 EC Semis had something to do with LD being outcoached by Thibs. After Game 1, Coach Thibs decided to live with single “coverage” on Joe Johnson but decided to “double cover” Jamal Crawford. LD should’ve then countered by having Jamal “move without the ball” like Ray Allen, “Rip” Hamilton, Kyle Korver and (for you old heads) Jim Paxson (when he played for the Blazers; shout-out to “Dr. Jack” Ramsay). I’m not saying (that) the “moving-without-the-ball” strategy would’ve necessarily worked for Jamal vs. the Bulls. After all, Jeff Teague was “thrust” into the starting lineup due to Hinrich’s injury and Teague, at that time, was not a (true) “facilitating” point guard. Maybe, Jamal recognized “the writing on the wall” and decided not “to give it his all” and “tank it” after Game 1 since he knew he wasn’t coming back to (the) Atlanta (Hawks) and after being “slapped in the face” with the re-signings of Joe Johnson and Al Horford during his tenure with the Hawks coupled with the fact(s) that the Hawks traded its 2010 first round pick for another 2010 first round pick which happened to be another shooting guard (Jordan Crawford). That trade (on “Draft Night 2010”) made absolutely no sense.
“JJ’s contract price was established by the market, so the matter was either sign him or try to work a sign and trade or let him go.” – vava74 @12:31pm, 12/26/2012
That (overinflated) “established market” to which you are referring (to) was set by the ASG “eggheads” and then EVP and GM “egghead” (Rick Sund) when Joe Johnson was INITIALLY offered a max contract (6yrs./$119 – $123.7mil.) after his dismal performance in the 2010 EC Semis vs. the Magic. You remember the guy (Joe Johnson) that said he “could care less” about the (Atlanta) Hawks fans and “if they show up”? Joe Johnson being INITIALLY OFFERED A MAXIMUM CONTRACT eliminated all back-and-forth negotiations between the Hawks organization and Joe Johnson (and his agent). You mean to tell me that no one in (the) Hawks’ brass had taken “Contracts 101”? (sarcasm)
“http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/basketball/johnson-on-unhappy-fans-we-could-care-less-if-they/nQftz/”
Rod from College Park
December 26th, 2012
3:08 pm
“Game 1, Coach Thibs decided to live with single “coverage” on Joe Johnson but decided to “double cover” Jamal Crawford.”
Ding!!! Ding!!! Ding!!!. While leaving the other two All stars on our team single covered. Another destruction of Vava High-sider. It’s really becoming too easy.
High-sider
December 26th, 2012
3:09 pm
“I find it really interesting that the Clippers are the third best defensive team in the league with that no defense playing Jamal Crawford playing Major minutes.” – Rod from College Park @ 1:11pm, 12/26/2012
Well, how about that? Jamal Crawford is currently leading the NBA with the best individual (aggregate) +/- statistic (+245). Kevin Durant is second in individual (aggregate) +/- stats (+237).
How can such a “poor” defensive player have that high (of an individual aggregate) +/- statistic? Is Jamal (Crawford) giving up more (points) than he scores (this season)?
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22012&split=9&team=
hfc95
December 26th, 2012
3:37 pm
Geez we talk about Jamal Crawford on here more than any current hawks players.
I will add my two cents in this aspect, the NBA has become more about the ability to score than defend, and with that said jamal crawford is a really solid player in that category. I love jamals game because he is one of the few guys in the league that will keep pushing the envelope offensively and make plays. His defense is not great but as long as you can somewhat defend and score at very high rates/effeciently, I would play a scorer over a defensive stopper anyday.
Rod, we have an oppurtunity to get the better version of jamal crawford in monta ellis and I know if we got monta we would be IN the discussion with MIA,NYK of the east. I dont want to look back as we are doing now and say what should of happened, GM DF needs to pull the trigger on acquiring another piece for this team before the deadline as we clearly will be in the playoffs, Devin Harris is the easiest asset to move($8.5M) and I hope we TRY to involve him in a trade to benefit us now and moving forward.
No team in the east really scares me besides MIA and NYK, we would get swept by both teams as they have too much scoring for us to handle 1-12. CHI, when Rose returns will be good but Boozer is easily the worst contract in the league and I think he will single handily destroy their playoffs.
What 1st RD matchup would be more favorable entertainment wise to Hawks fans? Playing the Nets and hopefully beating Joe or playing the Celtics and hopefully being able to finally get thru them and force Danny Ainge to blow up that team?
Slimjr
December 26th, 2012
3:38 pm
Rod and High-sider= Lob City Today!
JC1 and the Clippers are dismantling people and taking no prisoners..
Hawks would lose by 20 if they matched up tonight…
drmaryb.(""_*).
December 26th, 2012
3:48 pm
Half Off!
“Devin Harris is the easiest asset to move($8.5M) and I hope we TRY to involve him in a trade to benefit us now and moving forward.” -hfc95-
______________________________
At the trade deadline and, it’s half way mark, shouldn’t Harris number be $4.25M to move his expiring contract? Can someone confirm this?
Rod from College Park
December 26th, 2012
3:49 pm
hfc95,
I like Monta Ellis as well. I am more worried about him being able to defend his position the (2), than Crawford because Monta would be on the floor more minutes. After seeing him defend Joe in the post last year a couple of times, maybe he is underated defensively as well (LOL). Hell some bloggers here think Kyle Korver is good defensively, so I’m sure thay would have no problem with Monta. Totally agree with you though, today’s NBA is about people who can put the ball in the basket, and command double teams. We still lack that guy on this team, and the closest thing we have is Lou Williams.
Slimjr
December 26th, 2012
3:49 pm
Sund screwed up big time letting JC1 go!
In the playoffs you need ballers who can create their own shots and generate fouls.
You need ballers who can generate shots for others..
Our Bigs are not talented enough to carry the Hawks..The Hawks have always relied heavily on superior guard play to carry the Franchise on these playoff runs..
So Sund does what? Hmmmmmm
High-sider
December 26th, 2012
3:52 pm
doc,
i see you disabled the (auto) “caps lock” on the ipad. (lmao)
High-sider
December 26th, 2012
3:58 pm
If Blake Griffin, Kevin Love and David Lee can “put up ‘very good numbers’ on losing teams” and make the All-Star team, then why can’t Josh Smith make the All-Star team while “putting up ‘good numbers’ on winning teams”?
High-sider
December 26th, 2012
4:00 pm
^Correction: “…then why can’t Josh Smith make the All-Star team while “putting up ‘good numbers’ on [a] winning [team]”?”
Slimjr
December 26th, 2012
4:04 pm
H-s, those uni’s the Knicks were playing in bite!
Also, I’m beginning to think out loud if Melo can be the go to guy in the crunch..Starting to notice a pattern in crunch time where he seems to tighten up and fail… Sorta like Chipper has done his whole career in the money games….
Hope Amare can comeback healthy to help his team in the PLAYOFFS?
Swingman912
December 26th, 2012
4:07 pm
I like Monta. Cant help but love a blood raw scorer, but he’s an undersized 2, and even though this is a Scorers league, your SG or SF has to be a laterally quick perimeter defender, which is something we dont have. And while Monta is quick, defense isnt his strong suit. I do feel he could start for us, but not next to Korver, who is only quick with his jumpshot release. This does go back to the mistake we make trading Jordan Crawford and those picks, Resigning Joe, and thinking the CORE could get us further than the 2nd round ceiling. It’ll prob be 2 years until we’re can be a legit contender…
Slimjr
December 26th, 2012
4:07 pm
Hey doc good talk about MV7 on 92.9 FM “The Game” right now…
Slimjr
December 26th, 2012
4:13 pm
Ob, you maybe onto something comparing the Hawks and the Knicks relative to how they win and lose in similar ways..
That Laker loss cemented the Knicks problems when their jumpers are not falling they lose because they have no real post game..
Hawks in similar boat, they just don’t have a 28.3 point per game perimeter player in Melo..
O'brien
December 26th, 2012
4:16 pm
Rod,
What management should have done is find a way to unload Marvin, make JJ the SF, and keep Jamal for SG. But keeping JJ at SG and paying him $20 mil, they didn’t want to pay another SG the mid-level or more.
As for what Jamal was asking for, I don’t think anybody but his agent and Rick sund really knows. And I agree with your criticism of ferry. He did an excellent job gettin rid of Marvin and JJ, But has failed to address the SF position, and I don’t know why. That does not seem like something someone for the Spurs (who had Bruce bowen, and even overpaid for RJ twice) would do.
Plus being in Cleveland, ferry knows how dominant Lebron is at SF. and now the Knicks have Melo. celtics have Pierce. I am very disappointed that Ferry has not done a better job addressing that position.
High-sider
December 26th, 2012
4:18 pm
vava74,
I hope you realize (and understand), when Coach Thibs opted to “double cover” Jamal (Crawford) instead of Joe (Johnson) in the 2011 EC Semis, that means he (Coach Thibs) respected Jamal’s offensive/scoring ability more so than Joe’s (offensive/scoring ability).
Slimjr
December 26th, 2012
4:19 pm
The Hawks could not have beaten Orlando two years ago without JC1..
Slimjr
December 26th, 2012
4:27 pm
Danny Ferry you will need an Allstar at the two and three if you expect to be an Elite within two years..
You set that bar pretty high for yourself for sure..
Your still need two…Not one, two
Swingman912
December 26th, 2012
4:28 pm
Management shouldve let Joe walk! We could have took whatever for Marvin and start Jamal at the 2, at least for that year, and have JC2 be our 6th man…even if we tooka a step back, we wouldve kept our pick, got a solid rookie and had free agent money…
Swingman912
December 26th, 2012
4:30 pm
doesnt matter now tho…
SteveW
December 26th, 2012
4:30 pm
HS – Blake, Lee, and Love all played in the West, not the East. East was a different animal. Also, those guys put up numbers in the noticeable categories, scoring and rebounding, more so than Josh normally does.
And whoever else – I don’t think KG makes AS this season. His run is over. And Love is in the West.
Swingman912
December 26th, 2012
4:31 pm
Slimjr,
Dont know where those all stars are gonna come from…
High-sider
December 26th, 2012
4:31 pm
Slimjr,
I’ll let you “chalk up” that Knicks’ loss (yesterday to the Lakers) to the fluorescent (orange) unis. (LOL) You don’t have to worry about ‘Melo; he has a “track record” of “bringin’ it” in clutch situations (e.g., 2003 NCAA Tournament Championship Game vs. the Kansas Jayhawks).
SteveW
December 26th, 2012
4:32 pm
I’d sign Monta in a heartbeat to a reasonable contract, def. liabilities and all. He’s a scorer in a scorer’s League, and somebody has to put the ball in the bucket sometime.
SteveW
December 26th, 2012
4:36 pm
‘Melo, off season tournament = no pot belly and nagging injuries = MVP
Melo looks so much more in shape than last season. What an offensive BB player.
DF maybe is just waiting for a good deal on a SF. Gotta get 1 or 2, or else go big and move Josh down.
Slimjr
December 26th, 2012
4:37 pm
Swingman912, agreed.
So what does Danny have up his sleeve besides a ton of cap space? Guess we will find out this summer?
Slimjr
December 26th, 2012
4:39 pm
True H-s, thanks for that reminder..it’s been 9, almost 10 years already? Wow!
High-sider
December 26th, 2012
4:45 pm
SteveW,
David Lee made the 2010 (Eastern Conference) All-Star team while playing for the Knicks. The Knicks finished the 2009 – 2010 regular season with a record of 29 – 53.
Love’s and Griffin’s first (Western Conference) All-Star appearances occurred while both players were playing on “losing teams” (if I’m not mistaken).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02.html
O'Brien
December 26th, 2012
4:45 pm
Another SF I would have taken a chance on (in addition to Matt barnes) is Pietrus, who ended up signing with the Raptors, for $1.2 mil, and is playing 20+ minutes per game for them. He is not the defender he once was, but he is a legit SF, and has to be better than Tolliver.
Rod from College Park
December 26th, 2012
4:45 pm
“Dont know where those all stars are gonna come from…”
And that is the problem. Unless we can get Dwight after this year, and that is only if his back is better than it has been so far, there will be no stars. No way Chris Paul leaves LA witth all those weapons. We will have to win another way, which will require putting together a number of second tier stars to win. Ferry has his work cut out for him.
Rod from College Park
December 26th, 2012
4:52 pm
“Another SF I would have taken a chance on (in addition to Matt barnes) is Pietrus, who ended up signing with the Raptors, for $1.2 mil, and is playing 20+ minutes per game for them. He is not the defender he once was, but he is a legit SF, and has to be better than Tolliver.”
In the overall scheme of things he is better than Korver. The reason I say that is that he is a good 3 point shooter when left alone, and he is a top notch defender. He is not a better shooter than Korver, but he brings many other things to the table. Plus he can man up on some of the top scorers in the game and do an above average job, ask Joe Johnson.
vava74
December 26th, 2012
5:02 pm
High-sider:
“Maybe, Jamal recognized “the writing on the wall” and decided not “to give it his all” and “tank it” after Game 1 since he knew he wasn’t coming back to (the) Atlanta (Hawks) and after being “slapped in the face” with the re-signings of Joe Johnson and Al Horford during his tenure with the Hawks coupled with the fact(s) that the Hawks traded its 2010 first round pick for another 2010 first round pick which happened to be another shooting guard (Jordan Crawford)…”
Whoooaaa!!!
The level of delusion is rampant. So if what you say to “excuse” Jamal’s disappearing act was true, you would basically sanctioning and endorsing an unprofessional and douchebagish behaviour!!
And you call yourself a Hawks’ fan ?? Get the f@ck out of here and back deep into Jamal’s jock.
As for Jamal’s career… My goodness… Am I supposed to be impressed with the fact that he averaged 20ppg for lottery teams whilst shooting .400 from the floor?!?
Bacause I am supposed to, I must like a different sport…
Jamal is posting his best numbers EVER precisely in the year in which he FINALLY got it that you are wasting your talent if you only play on raw talent and don’t work on your game.
Jordan and Kobe are workaholics, Durant is a workaholic, Bill Russell was a crazy mutherf@cker who would spend his days studying HIS TEAMMATES in order to know how to extract the most out of them as a teammate and the leader of the celts and studying opponents and visualising what, how and when to do stuff against opponents A, B and C.
Jamal has been a complete defensive disaster his whole season and a chucker and the fact that he is now playing his best basketball EVER and by a mile in the year in which he finally developed a PROFESSIONAL ATTITUTE does not validate all the cr@ap he made in the past.
I always said that Jamal was IMMENSELY talented, you can go back and check it, but had a loser mentality, much alike other guys who only played out of raw talent and never worked in their games.
Do you happen to know why Jordan has such a poor final season? Because he trained so hard in the off season, pushed himself so far due his thirst to excell that he broke his body and played the whole season banged up with severe tendinitis.
Jamal could have been great and might still make a dent in history if this year he wins the title but, regardless of wining or not winning deep down he will know that he wasted 12 years as a pro that could have been REALLY something.
As for the CHI series, just go and watch the games again and stop living on the cr@p that Rod feeds you. If Jamal was SO GOOD why the f@ck he did not get anything done even with that famous double coverage?
That double coverage, for your information was in all 4 main guys, JJ, Al, Josh and Jamal. It’s Thibs system, constant trapping on the main guys when they have the rock and, as you may remember, we were always playing 4 on 5 on offense with Marvin or Collins and most of the time 4 on 5 on D with Jamal.
And one final note Rod and mini-Rod, Teague held his own against Rose who did always huge damage when Jamal played point (it had happened in the regular season too).
Unfortunately, you both seem to live in a Stalinist State where Jamal is your ruler and where “Revisionist History” is the norm.
No fantastic season by Jamal erases the past, only accentuates it.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 26th, 2012
5:03 pm
“Najeh, why do you have an issue with Lin contract?”
Never said I did. I only said his contract, not his undrafted status, should be used as a benchmark for evaluating him. He should be compared to Mike Conley, not to, say, Donald Sloan. If he plays the rest of the season like he has played the last few games, of course he’ll be living up to his contract.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 26th, 2012
5:11 pm
“Frontcourt Allstar Pool: Lebron, Bosh, Melo, Chandler, KG, Pierce, Deng, Noah, B. Lopez, Verejao, Josh, and Al.”
LeBron, Bosh, Melo, Varejao, and Noah are the only players on that list I could see conceivably ranked higher than Josh, and I wouldn’t put Varejao and Noah ahead of him. The problem, though, is that at least one of those Celtics will probably make it because of name recognition, even though neither one really deserves it.
Duh
December 26th, 2012
5:12 pm
Smh…Jamal didn’t want a DIME under his previus (10 mill) contract that he had at the time. He even refrenced JJ and Al’s contracts that they had received. He wasn’t goint to accept anyyhing less from ATL. Anyone else? Sure, but not from ATL, no home-team discount for us. He’s lucky to be on a winning team right now. He should have taken a page out of Manu-Tony-Tim book (spurs).
“We both know he was not guarding Luol Deng, so one again, you are spewing falsehoods.”
‘Mal was SHUT DOWN in the playoffs. The one thing he is supposedly good at and he couldn’t get it done for us. JJ was no better. Neither are First options (Elite). Jamal is like the 7th or 8th option in LA once Hill and Billups come back.
With that being said, Look at Jamal’s teams when the’s the #1 option. Compare that to JJ’s teams as #1 option. In BKN JJ is not the # option and is really more of a spot up shooter there with the PG being ball dominant.
http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2010/08/27/atlanta-hawks-jamal-crawford-wants-trade-without-contract-extension/
Duh
December 26th, 2012
5:15 pm
“The following is Crawford’s shooting performance after Game 1 in which he was 8-for-16: Game 2 (2-for-10) in Chicago, Game 3 (3-for-7) in Atlanta, Game 4 (5-for-11) in Atlanta, Game 5 (1-for-9) at Chicago and Game 6 (2-for-10).
The Hawks were a playoff team before Crawford, and would be prepared to move on without him if his price is too high.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ycn-10426565
Najeh Davenpoop
December 26th, 2012
5:16 pm
“What is the HAWKS MISSING.NAJAH WHAT DO YOU THINK.I LIKE TO HERE IT.”
A superstar. A legit #1 scoring option. That’s what the Hawks have been missing since 1992.
Duh
December 26th, 2012
5:22 pm
Jamal Crawford isn’t happy about his contract situation. It’s been obvious to those around him at Hawks camp that his demeanor isn’t the same. He’s being a professional but the enthusiasm is lacking.
So far, Crawford has stopped short of publicly expressing his displeasure with the Hawks for not offering a contract extension. In that way he’s taking a different tact than Kenyon Martin in Denver and Aaron Brooks in Houston.
But Crawford’s stance might be shifting a bit. At media day Monday he was careful to avoid talking about the possibility of leaving the Hawks. Now, with GM Rick Sund still not offering an extension and also resisting trade inquiries, Crawford sounds more urgent about the issue.
“You think something is solid and a family you just want that to be what it is,” Crawford said today “I would love to be here long term, no doubts about it. I would love to lock that up before I become a free agent. I want to make it work here. But if that is not the plan I guess I will go elsewhere.”
Crawford will make $10.1 million this year. He is seeking a new deal after winning the NBA’s Sixth Man Award while helping the Hawks to 53 victories and the No. 3 playoffs seed in the East. The uncertainty with the expiring collective bargaining agreement also is a major factor in his desire for an extension.
Sund has declined comment on Crawford’s situation, citing his policy of not discussing players’ contracts. He typically hasn’t offered extensions on veteran contracts. The exceptions have been cases in which the player could expect a maximum contract in free agency like Joe Johnson.
If Crawford were to become a free agent next summer, he would be among the top players available.
“There is a part of me that is comfortable with that,” he said. “But my whole thing is loyalty. I’m a loyal person. And I thought the Hawks were big to step up and give me an opportunity to go further. I thought I played my role to the best of my abilities, and I just want to be here a long time.
“I don’t want to compete [for a contract] and have to go anywhere else but if I am not in the future plans then I guess that is what I will have to do.”
In the meantime, Crawford is doing what’s asked of him at camp. His back tightened up during practice Thursday and Hawks coaches offered to let him sit out sprints at the end of the session but Crawford finished.
He said he’s trying to separate the business from the basketball
“That’s the tough part,” he said. “I’m just taking it one day at a time, being supportive of my teammates. I have the utmost respect for Coach Drew and his staff, that’s for sure. I try to do as much as possible without my mind wandering too much. [But] at times, you can ‘overthink’ it instead of just going with the flow.”
MC
http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2010/10/02/atlanta-hawks-jamal-crawford-prepared-to-go-elsewhere-without-extension/
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You KNOW what an EXTENSION is right? It meand an EXTENSION of your current pay with increases more than likely.
Duh
December 26th, 2012
5:31 pm
Basically, The Hawks choose Horford over Jamal. looks like a good choice to me. Jamal is not wroth Ten Million dollars a year under this current CBA and certainly not in this economy.