Game thread: Hawks to start Lou Williams, Harris out

Vivlamore reporting.

A little weary from a much-delayed flight from Philadelphia this morning. However, as the sign over the Hawks’ locker room door reads: ‘No Excuses.’

* Larry Drew talked about making a lineup change following Friday’s lopsided loss to the Sixers and the coach delivered Saturday. Against the Bulls, the Hawks will start Lou Williams at shooting guard. He will be joined in the starting lineup by Jeff Teague, Kyle Korver, Josh Smith and Al Horford.

Drew said he would have started Devin Harris at the shooting guard. However, Harris will miss his third straight game with a sore left foot.

“(Getting early energy), that is number one,” Drew said of the lineup change. “Number two, I want to play faster. So we’ll go with a smaller guy in there. If I had Devin Harris it would have been Devin. I kind of want to play a little more up-tempo tonight. Hopefully, it won’t affect us too much from a matchup standpoint. If it does, we’ll just have to make some adjustments.”

* Harris, as I reported yesterday, will miss the game due to the foot injury. Drew also called swingman DeShawn Stevenson a game-time decision although, in reality, he would like to rest the 13-year veteran on the second of back-to-back games.

* In the Bulls, the Hawks face a big, physical front court, a similar issue as they faced against the Sixers last night. I asked Drew how he planned to handle this situation and if he would do anything differently tonight.

“We just have to be better at what we do,” Drew said. “With their size, chances are we’ll be changing our lineup some throughout the course of the game and go a little bit bigger. We’ve played teams where we’ve given up size and we’ve been able to be competitive.

“That is the main thing going into the game against Chicago because they do play a physical style of ball with their size. We just have to be better. As I told the guys after the Philadelphia game, it’s not so much what Philly did to us, it’s what we did to ourselves. We have to play harder and be more competitive. That has to be something from the very beginning. Last night, we didn’t start the game that way. On the road, you can’t play like that and that inconsistent with your effort.”

* We could see a battle of the Teague brothers tonight. Jeff will face his younger brother Marquis, a rookie with the Bulls. Additionally, Korver played the past two seasons with the Bulls and Kirk Hinrich played the past season and a half with the Hawks. Ironically, Korver has the locker once occupied by Hinrich.

- Chris Vivlamore

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131 comments Add your comment

Grimey

December 22nd, 2012
6:11 pm

Love the move

Grimey

December 22nd, 2012
6:11 pm

Jenkins and scott proved they can bring it as well

Grimey

December 22nd, 2012
6:11 pm

Hope to see them in action

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
6:14 pm

FTPB — wouldn’t trade for Amare in a million years; would only trade for Cousins if he would be more attractive in a sign and trade with the Lakers for Dwight than anyone on the current roster. I would not trade for Cousins to be a long term building block for this team. It’s one thing to have a few minor blow ups and bouts with immaturity like Josh had in his first few seasons; it’s another thing to get coaches fired and get suspended indefinitely multiple times. Cousins’ off the court problems put him a lot closer to Isaiah Rider than to Josh.

Buddy Grizzard

December 22nd, 2012
6:15 pm

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
6:16 pm

LD once again disappoints me. Teague and Lou in the back court together to start the game? Korver guarding Luol Deng? Not a fan of this at all.

I have no idea why he doesn’t go to the big lineup more. Zaza is the perfect antidote to Noah.

Grimey

December 22nd, 2012
6:18 pm

@Najeh Deng would get Josh into foul trouble early thats why he didnt go with that lineup

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
6:18 pm

Last night’s debacle dropped the Hawks two spots to 7th in the league in defensive rating. That is the lowest I can remember them being since the first week of the season. The big lineup would go a long way toward pulling them back up. The current lineup, not so much.

Hopefully Al brings it tonight against his former college teammate, because if he plays like he did last night, the Hawks are going to get run out of the gym the way Noah has been playing.

Chris Vivlamore

December 22nd, 2012
6:20 pm

Lou Williams has gone 173 games without a start, his last coming March 14, 2010.

Buddy Grizzard

December 22nd, 2012
6:20 pm

Terrible move. Another three guard lineup against a big front court. And who is the backup point guard?

Buddy Grizzard

December 22nd, 2012
6:22 pm

Hope we get to see Marquis Teague, one of my favorites in the draft.

EmirS.

December 22nd, 2012
6:28 pm

I see us getting out rebounded tonight. Deng is a better rebounder than most give him credit. He KNOWS how to block out.

MattP

December 22nd, 2012
6:31 pm

So no PG off bench? lol’d

What a lineup change! Larry Drew at it again.

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
6:35 pm

The Bulls love running that play where they run a pick and roll, the ball handler passes to a big man standing near the foul line, and the big man either nails the free throw line jumper or passes to another player (often the other big man who set the initial screen) cutting on the baseline for a dunk. With three guards on the floor, if the Hawks switch screens like they did yesterday, they are going to have an awfully hard time defending that play. Chicago and Philly do a lot of similar things offensively, and going small puts a ton of pressure on Josh and Al to protect the rim.

LD took the Bulls to 6 games in the playoffs a couple of years ago in part because he went big. No idea why he doesn’t see the wisdom in doing that tonight.

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
6:41 pm

FTPB

“If josh can’t convince dwight to come here, then having Morrow won’t make a difference (IMO).”

True. I can’t think of a very good reason why Ferry hasn’t tried to trade Morrow other than that, though.

Blast

December 22nd, 2012
6:58 pm

Looking at Hawks last loses, methinks Hawks are trying to tank their season. I say this because I see Hawks not closing out enough and giving superior athletes just that little window they need to pull the trigger. I see Hawks making unforced turnovers that make me gape in disbelief. I saw Al make no attempt to block Hawes shot, just allowded the man to roll free for a layup. I see Hawks rimming out multiple shots, and missing free throws.

What happened to Hawks much vaunted defense? What happened to their fast break offense? Coach talks about energy. I think it’s more than that. I think it’s more about desire.

Why would Hawks tank their season? Does Commish Stern want to see a New York Miami match up in the conference finals? Does Ferry want to get up in the draft? Call me a conspiratory theorist, but I just cannot understand the Hawks right now.

Or maybe they are just not good enough, and have been feeding on the bottom feeders all season. Now they gotta play the Bulls with Noah, Deng and Hawks killer, little Nate?

To me the question is not if they lose tonight, it’s by how much?

Rusty

December 22nd, 2012
7:04 pm

Grandad JT & Lou have very little in common as ball players .

terrell

December 22nd, 2012
7:05 pm

Why wont this fool just start Morrow or Jenkins, and keep lou as 5th man where he’s comfortable? Oh yeah, it’ LD we’re talking about. Well at least Lou gets to play the 2. LD thinks he’s a pg. smgdh

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
7:12 pm

Hawks are going to have major problems scoring in the half court if Korver continues to not make open shots.

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
7:14 pm

Lineup change hasn’t made the Hawks’ offense any less discombobulated than it has been the last 4 games.

Buddy Grizzard

December 22nd, 2012
7:17 pm

Noah should have dunked that.

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
7:18 pm

Bob needs to stop saying “reacharound”.

Buddy Grizzard

December 22nd, 2012
7:18 pm

LOL Bob Rathbun:

“And a reach-around on Al.”

Buddy Grizzard

December 22nd, 2012
7:19 pm

Good D Josh.

High-sider

December 22nd, 2012
7:21 pm

To: Najeh Davenpoop
————————————————————

Najeh Davenpoop
December 22nd, 2012
6:11 pm

“I said per-minute stats are actual/real because they are based on or are derived from a player’s actual/real per-game stats. Per-36 minutes stats are theoretical/projected/extrapolated stats when a player’s average minutes played per game stats are (significantly) less than 36.0+(mpg).”

Great, now we’re getting somewhere. I have been talking about per-minute stats for like three days and you keep responding talking about per-36 stats. [Per minute stats are not derived from per game stats at all, but whatever.]* At least I have been able to convince you that per-minute stats are not just some fabrication.

At this point this Jamal vs. Lou thing is getting old and wasn’t particularly relevant in the first place, but I already explained in a previous post that Lou gets to the line better than Jamal at roughly the same rate that LeBron scores better than Josh. Since you now agree that per minute stats mean something, maybe you’ll see the validity in that post. Or not. It’s all good.
———————————————————–

Damn, you (Najeh Davenpoop) just don’t want to “get it” (understand). Keep feeding your ego.

“Per-Minute Statistics

What does Per-Minute Statistics Mean?

A metric that takes standard NBA statistics, and instead of breaking them down by production per game, breaks them down by production per minute. This calculation can be done for most of the official statistics that are kept by the NBA.”

http://www.sportingcharts.com/dictionary/nba/per-minute-statistics.aspx

HawkFan

December 22nd, 2012
7:22 pm

The insane love of Jenkins on this blog (and before that JC2, Benson, etc) boggles my mind. No one has ever seen him play when anything is on the line. Why do you guys want him to play so bad?

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
7:22 pm

That Bellinelli post up is there for the Bulls all night if they want it.

Buddy Grizzard

December 22nd, 2012
7:22 pm

Two missed layups by Al.

Gorila

December 22nd, 2012
7:23 pm

I was at the game last night at Wells Fargo Center. I loved seen the Hawks play live because I could notice a lot of things that normally fly under the TV radar.

1. As a unit, the Hawks were not on the same page on both ends of the floor.- on defense they played atrocious: 1. The frontcourt had to deal with their assigments plus the ones of the lazy backcour; 2. Nobody boxed out (except for Zaza); 3. Nobody got consistently in position to rebound (except for Zaza, Ivan); 4. Nobody went after the long rebounds, and they became second chance points for the Sixers; 5. Help defense was non existent (except for Josh); 6. Nobody was willing to foul in order to prevent a basket. On offense: 1. Things regressed to ISOs, I saw a lot of iso-Josh and iso-Lou; 2. They rarely completed three passes per offensive turn; 3. Setting a screen download to free Korver or Lou was chaotic; 4. Horford got free frequently after setting pick and roll screens but the ball never got to him; 5. Horford and Smith lived in the 16-23 ft area.

2. Lou Williams was atrocious at PG!! he could not complete a clean pass, could not complete a single pick and roll play with Al, and tends to be a ball-hog. He looked pretty good coming off screens tough.

3. Korver was a hustler! He moved a lot in offense, looking to come off screens. Sadly, when he got opened he rarely got the pass on time. Most of his points where spot up shots, not because of a designed play for him. On the defensive side, he tried hard to stay with his man.

4. Say what you want about Zaza, but he is a warrior. He banged the whole game. He touched the ball in almost every offensive and defensive possession (either with a pass, rebound, tipping the ball towards a teammate, offensive attempt). On the other hand, he needs to learn how to catch the ball ASAP! Ivan played decently as well.

5. I liked what I saw from the rookies. Mike Scott did look well and I think he can help us at the post. He has a really nice shoot, a work in progress post moves, and is willing to fight down low.
Jenkins is a smooth shooter, both coming off screens and as spot up. On the other hand, that is the only aspect of the game he did well. I doubt his offensive capabilities would be enough for him to earn playing time. I don”t see him helping the team this year.

6. Most of Josh turnovers came from trying to force passes with high degree of difficulty. I saw that he has a nice feeling of the game flow but overestimates his passing abilities. His jump shot was surprisingly falling.

And last:

7. I don’t know what the h… is going on with Al Horford! The guy was a complete non-factor last night, and I went to the game to see him in particular. On defense he was a good man-to-man defender but his help defense was non existent! He did not leave his man to defend the post. There was one play were Thaddeus Young got pass his defender and made a lay up; Al was literally one step away from him and he just watched him score. Not even raised his arm. Also, he did not boxed out either, did not fight for rebounding position, did not banged at all, and only pursue middle to long rebounds. On offense, I noticed that the offensive scheme puts him outside the paint. That maybe why he rarely post up. The once upon a time, automatic middle-range jumper, is not falling. He got free after setting screens but he did not get the ball. He post-up two times, and one was a nice hook shot; nonetheless, he cannot create his own shot, so, when you take away the pick and roll/pop (Lou) he struggles to score. It was so disappointing! I want to see the intensity of rookie Al again.

Well, that’s my amateur opinion. Thanks guys!

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
7:24 pm

Of course LD brings in Tolliver before Ivan. SMGDMFH

Buddy Grizzard

December 22nd, 2012
7:25 pm

Toliver in before Zaza.

Buddy Grizzard

December 22nd, 2012
7:26 pm

Ugliest game I’ve seen in a while.

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
7:28 pm

“A metric that takes standard NBA statistics, and instead of breaking them down by production per game, breaks them down by production per minute. ”

Right. It takes standard NBA statistics and breaks them down per minute instead of per game. You know that by “standard NBA statistics” they mean TOTALS, right? Not per game stats?

Per game and per minute have nothing to do with each other. If you give me total minutes played and total of any other stat, I can give you per minute stats without knowing anything about games played.

HawkFan

December 22nd, 2012
7:29 pm

ZaZa mixing it up early.

HawkFan

December 22nd, 2012
7:31 pm

ZaZa needs to start and play 30 minutes

Buddy Grizzard

December 22nd, 2012
7:31 pm

Korver played better D on Deng.

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
7:32 pm

Tolliver before Ivan. Un-f-cking-believable. This is the worst thing about the Thunder game by far, even worse than the fact that they lost.

DawgNole

December 22nd, 2012
7:33 pm

I see Rathbun and Nique are in fine form already–whining about fouls at both ends that they and only they perceive as ref bias against the Hawks. No pretense of professionalism.

lewis

December 22nd, 2012
7:33 pm

HawkFan

December 22nd, 2012
7:35 pm

It seems as though High sider and Najeh have finally agreed that they agreed all along

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
7:35 pm

5 turnovers, 7 made field goals in that quarter for the Hawks. At least of those five turnovers, none of them were returned for touchdowns.

Buddy Grizzard

December 22nd, 2012
7:37 pm

Deng is working Tolliver over.

HawkFan

December 22nd, 2012
7:37 pm

Why is Tolliver on the team, much less in the game, much less guarding their best player

Buddy Grizzard

December 22nd, 2012
7:38 pm

High-sider

December 22nd, 2012
7:38 pm

Najeh Davenpoop,

Per-minute stats may mean something to ANAL-MINDED GM’s and FANTASY SPORTS STAT GEEKS but they don’t mean very much to me nor do those “Per 36 Minutes” stats. And I explained to you (or at least attempt to) the difference between “actual” and “theoretical” “Per 36 Minutes” stats. I agreed Lou gets to the FT line at a better rate than Jamal but since Jamal shoots higher % from the FT line (than Lou), it all cancels/washes itself (out). It was (really) never about per-minute stats. You just want to be right even though you are wrong. And now you’re trying to (re-)frame the narrative regarding the debate/discussion.

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
7:38 pm

Bulls are driving inside, Hawks are settling for jumpers.

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
7:40 pm

“Per-minute stats may mean something to ANAL-MINDED GM’s and FANTASY SPORTS STAT GEEKS but they don’t mean very much to me nor do those “Per 36 Minutes” stats. And I explained to you (or at least attempt to) the difference between “actual” and “theoretical” “Per 36 Minutes” stats. ”

LOL. Just please don’t whine that I’m insulting you or being condescending anymore. Ignorance is a lot more tolerable than hypocrisy.

J.J.M.

December 22nd, 2012
7:41 pm

^^^you should know by now hawks dont have a layer who drives the ball every game

Buddy Grizzard

December 22nd, 2012
7:41 pm

Zaza’s per minute rebounding stats indicate he should play more, given how poorly the Hawks rebound as a team.

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2012
7:42 pm

Two nice post moves for Al in this half, plus a mid range jumper. Nice start after a bad week for him.