Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 86, Magic 80 (updated)
Vivlamore reporting.
It was supposed to be easy. The Hawks made it look that way – at least for 45 minutes.
The Hawks used fast starts in the first and third quarters but had to hold on to defeat the Magic 86-80 Wednesday night at the Amway Center.
The Hawks (13-6) defeated the Magic for the eighth consecutive game, including both meetings this season. It was also the Hawks’ 10th win in 12 games, concluding a 2-1 road trip.
The Hawks built a 19-point third-quarter lead but had to withstand a Magic rally in the final three minutes of the game. Keeping big leads has been an issue for the Hawks this season and the problem reared its ugly head again.
“For our team, we are going to have to learn to develop a killer instinct when we get a team down,” Hawks coach Larry Drew said. “Right now, we don’t have it. We bobble too many balls. We miss too many fast-break opportunities. We have too many defensive breakdowns when we get leads. We allow teams to get back into games. It’s something that we are going to have to develop.”
The duo of Al Horford and Josh Smith led the Hawks again. Smith had 16 points and 11 rebounds and Horford added 13 points and 13 rebounds, his seventh consecutive double-double. The Hawks also got double-digit scoring from Jeff Teague (16), Lou Williams (11) and Devin Harris (10).
“You can really see them starting to gel,” Drew said. “They’ve played together over the years but what I’m seeing from them is something that is special. They both are really learning to play off each other. When you have a guy with the versatility as Josh and Al is a guy who has similar versatility. They seem to read each other well and it’s getting better every game we play.”
The Magic (8-13) lost their fourth straight home game, something they haven’t done since Dec. 2007. Aaron Afflalo led the Magic with 16 points, including three 3-pointers.
The Hawks built a 19-point lead in the third quarter, 57-38, by going on an 11-2 run and cruised from until the Magic put together their late run. Drew said he never felt comfortable, even with the large lead.
“We were just a little out of rhythm,” Horford said. “You have to give them credit. They never went away. That’s the type of team they have over there. I’m just happy that we were able to hold the lead.”
The Hawks got off to a fast start scoring the first 10 points of the game. The Magic missed their first six shots and had a turnover before finally scoring with 7:19 remaining in the first quarter. The Hawks led by as many as 14 points, 16-2, as they made 8 of their first 11 shots.
The Magic stormed back with a 13-2 run in the opening period. They took a brief lead in the second quarter when a J.J. Redick jumper made it 27-26 with 6:35 remaining in the second quarter. It was the Magic’s only lead of the game. The Hawks scored the next six points and closed with a 20-7 run and took a 46-34 lead into intermission. The Hawks shot 47.5 percent (19 for 40) compared to just 34.1 percent (14 of 41) for the Magic. Smith led the Hawks with 10 first-half points.
“(We were) able to get off to good start,” Smith said. “We didn’t want this crowd to get into the game and we didn’t want to give them confidence early. We came out and were able to push the extremely well, look for open people. We started off the right way but we have to make a conscious effort of not letting teams back in the basketball game when we have large leads.”
The Hawks also got nine points from Kyle Korver, who played 23 minutes after missing five games with back spasms. Zaza Pachulia had seven points and nine rebounds. Ivan Johnson did not play for the second straight game. When asked about Johnson’s status, Drew said the forward “will certainly be rested” when it comes time to play the Bobcats.
The Hawks play their third game in four days when they host the Bobcats Thursday.
- Chris Vivlamore
LATEST NEWS
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* Video: Hawks look to sustain winning ways
* First place on the line vs. Heat
* Josh Smith named Player of the Week
* 3-pointers may be key to defeating Heat
* Harris not settling for jumpers
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148 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
December 12th, 2012
9:22 pm
Al 41 minutes, Ivan 0 minutes.
Slimjr
December 12th, 2012
9:25 pm
Just win Baby!
Slimjr
December 12th, 2012
9:27 pm
Shot Blocker/ Rim protector should apply
Slimjr
December 12th, 2012
9:28 pm
Why cant these Hawks just bury these teams?
Najeh Davenpoop
December 12th, 2012
9:38 pm
Golden State is tied with the Heat in the 4th quarter. Mark Jackson has that team playing some ball. Hawks get a rematch with them in a few days. Teague better bring his A game because Steph Curry has been lighting it up.
BobDawg
December 12th, 2012
9:40 pm
I’m really pleased with the Hawks this year… I was expecting about .500 ball at the best and aren’t we also in Re-building mode like the Magic???? DF has done a great job with blending the pieces on an unselfish team and we still have a ton of money to spend in future years… Love the quick hands and speed of this team….
Melvin
December 12th, 2012
9:43 pm
This was easily a game LD could have played Ivan and Jenkins. I swear this guy rotations are mind blogging (to say it nicely)
Melvin
December 12th, 2012
9:51 pm
GS takes a 2pt lead over the Heat with .9 on the clock…LOL
Bernie Matt
December 12th, 2012
9:51 pm
16 points 11 boards and 5 blocks(10 points taken from this opposing team). But Al lead! No disrespect to Al but this Viva guy don’t know $hit. AJC, you can do better!
Jae Evolution
December 12th, 2012
9:54 pm
Wow, Warriors beat the Heat at home.
Bernie Matt
December 12th, 2012
9:55 pm
He must be like Jay Bilas, mad cause Josh don’t speak to him or even know who he is.
Melvin
December 12th, 2012
9:56 pm
Warriors are on a 5 road game winning streak…. Wow, gotta keep an eye on them. They did beat the Hawks.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 12th, 2012
9:57 pm
With a win over Charlotte tomorrow, the Hawks and Heat will be tied on top of the Southeast Division.
WTF
December 12th, 2012
10:00 pm
Be nice if you could read the article that is blocked by all the ads. This site is loaded with script and ads. Last time I come here.
vava74
December 12th, 2012
10:03 pm
Great win on typical let down game for the “old hawks”… There is no way on hell that we would have won this one in the past …
About Ivan, I am afraid that he will deservedly punch LD in the face and be off the league forever…
High-sider
December 12th, 2012
10:04 pm
Warriors put a freeze on the Heat, 97 – 95.
[This] GSW [team] has wins against the Clippers, Hawks, Nets [2] and Heat.
Don’t sleep on Mark Jackson as possible COY [Coach of the Year].
keith
December 12th, 2012
10:08 pm
Right now, Marquis Teague in Chicago, is playing with more confidence, more tenacity, and more passion, than Jeff Teague! Jeff MUST be more assertive going forward!
keith
December 12th, 2012
10:12 pm
We need our PG to attack the basket ferociously!!! That is not in Teagues’ DNA. Maybe he will learn from The Great Devin Harris before it’s too late.
High-sider
December 12th, 2012
10:16 pm
This GS [Road] Warriors [squad] has won five consecutive games away from Oracle Arena, Oakland, CA.
Hawks, you have been forewarned.
http://www.nba.com/warriors/schedule/2012
Chris Vivlamore
December 12th, 2012
10:20 pm
As you can see at the end of the game story, I did ask Drew about the status of Ivan Johnson, who has not played the past two games. He said that Johnson “will certainly be rested” when it comes time to play the Bobcats on Thursday.
Slimjr
December 12th, 2012
10:20 pm
Some will say that Marquis is a better basketball player than Jeff.
Mark Jackson was a great New York Knick guard! He was a great basketball analyst! After being passed over many times for several years, its great to see he is doing phenomenally well in his 1st head coaching stint in the beautiful Golden State of Cali!
No question hes the leading vote getter for COY! They are 5-0 on the road! That’s crazy…
Slimjr
December 12th, 2012
10:21 pm
Is Ivan 38 or 28? What are you talking about Mr. Drew?
Slimjr
December 12th, 2012
10:24 pm
Ugly win, they hung on barely but won…Whew…
Slimjr
December 12th, 2012
10:27 pm
Dallas tied with the Men in Green 92-92 with 2:28 left in the 4th! Down 14 they have taken over in the 4th..OJ Mayo was a nice pickup for Dallas..
keith
December 12th, 2012
10:33 pm
Right now Lou Williams is the only Hawk I have on any of my Fantasy Teams. However, if the Coach will allow our best player and shooter, Kyle Korver, to get into rhythm, this guy will score 25ppg. I would definitely ad Korver to my fantasy team…
Najeh Davenpoop
December 12th, 2012
10:38 pm
” He said that Johnson “will certainly be rested” when it comes time to play the Bobcats on Thursday.”
Sounds like an unannounced suspension to me. The alternative — that LD just chose not to play him or forgot about him — is worse.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 12th, 2012
10:46 pm
Not only did the Hawks win, but they even managed to sell out Philips Arena tonight (for Justin Bieber).
kuhndog
December 12th, 2012
10:50 pm
No Ivan I really think he would have matched up with big baby. I thought we let them in it,this game should not have been close. We kind of got goofy with the ball late, trying to get out of there.Josh and Al have a bond a with out saying type of game. Like Josh said last year BANG BROTHERS, Morrow could hit a 3 for nothin, with a back to back we are gonna need the bench tomorrow night.
kuhndog
December 12th, 2012
10:51 pm
Justin who?
Don't Bring Woody-Lite Back!
December 12th, 2012
10:56 pm
DF, Please fre Larry Drew right now and let one of the assistance finish coaching the remainder of this season. Under NO, that is No Circumstances should this guybe brought back as Hawks Coach next year. Another DNP-CD for Ivan. I guess Ivan is in The Teague Dog House(Woddy and Now Woddy-Lite)like Jeff was before Kurt got hurt last year. That is the only way Jeff got a chance to play durning the final few games and playoff last season. But the Bloggers on here had called for Woody to play Jeff Teague over Old Man Bibby when Woody was the coach. I was hoping Mark Jackson had replaced Woody but GM Sund moved Larry Drew(Woddie-Lite) into the HC Job. Not Playing one of your players who bring ATTITUDE(Ivan Johnson) the last two games is a Mystery to Fans who want to see this team WIN! Now he is starting Harris, who brings nothing to the team with Jeff makes me want to stop watching LD trying to coach. Football Number wearing #92 is no Defensive Stopper and continue to get playing time over Ivan. He didn’t play tonight and #92 has NO GAME! Keep him on the bench and let Ivan get those minutes. The expiring CONTRACTS we got from the NETS, should not be playing becuz these guys can’t help this team win. DF don’t bring LD back as Coach next year and let ho go on to NY Knicks to coach with his Idol. NY Knick will see what type of Coach Woody is when it comes time for Stoudemire returns as well as the playoff. NO MORE LD! FIRE LD!
Rod from College Park
December 12th, 2012
11:03 pm
“For our team, we are going to have to learn to develop a killer instinct when we get a team down,” Hawks coach Larry Drew said. “Right now, we don’t have it.
A least he understands that. Maybe he can explain that to Mike Smith.
Smokey
December 12th, 2012
11:08 pm
LD needs to be probed a bit harder on the Ivan question, saying he will be rested is not a sufficient answer to what his status is and why he wasn’t played. Could have followed up with something like “was he not used due to matchups” which would draw him into giving more detail. Gotta dig a little bit harder C-Viv you know we all want to know about this stuff. Smells fishy to me.
doc
December 12th, 2012
11:17 pm
griz trying to lose to the suns tonight.
Rusty
December 12th, 2012
11:18 pm
Vivlamor when are you going to ask the lame duck why the hell isn’t he playing Ivan,doesn’t he realize how stupid this makes him look.
doc
December 12th, 2012
11:24 pm
suns do it.
Rusty
December 12th, 2012
11:30 pm
Keith its so hard to not call you an idiot,I just finished watching the game at 11:20 ,read the blog first hearing you knock JT thought he must have been playing poorly,didn’t see that at all.He played good defense ,shot well & played good.he also played when the hawks had built good leads in the first & third quarters, with Harris & Williams in the back court together I seen the lead disappear.
Rusty
December 12th, 2012
11:39 pm
I loose respect for Ferry as he lets LD get away with just being stupid.
paian
December 12th, 2012
11:43 pm
“keith its so hard to not call you an idiot”
i couldnt agree more lol
Rusty
December 12th, 2012
11:43 pm
If we had a different coach this game would not have been close, will not be able to win big games with him. He says that we have to develope a killer instinct,no we just have to overcome your lousy substitution patterns.
Rusty
December 12th, 2012
11:45 pm
Play Ivan,you idiot.
Sameba
December 12th, 2012
11:50 pm
I do not know how the “killer instinct” is related to building big lead. To build up big leads one does not play starters for 40 minutes a game. Instead, one rotates wisely and gives starters much needed rest…
mike
December 13th, 2012
12:04 am
Chris,
No disrespect to you and your craft, but I would have preferred if you dug a little deeper on that question to LD. LD took an easy out but you could have followed up.
Did you see Stephen A. grilling Kobe on ESPN about Dwight’s free throw shooting? We need that type of grilling of LD about Ivan from you.
The Truth
December 13th, 2012
12:07 am
Good win but not so impress with the Hawks backcourt in this game. Jeff, Devin and Lou had their warts at times as they are not good stewards of the basketball. This sort of explains LD comment:
“We bobble too many balls. We miss too many fast-break opportunities. We have too many defensive breakdowns when we get leads.” – LD
As more film are studied on the Hawks, a key to beating them seem to be pressing the guards and seducing turnovers. LD must clean this up sooner rather than later.
WHEN ARE THEY MOVING ?????
December 13th, 2012
12:07 am
WISH IT WAS SEATTLE WINNING, THIS THUG SPORT IS WORTHLESS HERE AND MUST BE MOVED A.S.A.P. !
jo
December 13th, 2012
3:43 am
Another good road win. At 13-6, I’m not complaining ( but play Ivan!).
vava74
December 13th, 2012
4:16 am
Not sure if anyone posted this, but it’s a good read:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8724362/the-kobe-question
Smokey
December 13th, 2012
5:40 am
Wow, awesome read thanks vava74!
hope
December 13th, 2012
6:19 am
jeff this is your team take charge, josh and al continue to play hard every night, ivan stay focused good things will come to you LD this a long season these guys will wear down playing 40 minutes a night
terrell
December 13th, 2012
8:01 am
I like this team better than ANY of the Joe Johnson led squads. A lot more “energy” without the two energyless ones.(Joe and Marv)
terrell
December 13th, 2012
8:11 am
Korver our best player? Keith, please get off your parents computer.
terrell
December 13th, 2012
8:19 am
And Keith, whats up with all the hate for Teague? Teague has clearly had a better year than Harris so far. Teague has had maybe two or three(out of 19) not so good games, while Harris has had maybe two or three decent games ALL YEAR. I just dont get it????? But whatever. Go Hawks!
sam'l
December 13th, 2012
8:24 am
anybody else noticing these little news teases which pop up on the blog……I think they suck, but maybe they make sense to people who still live in Atlanta or Griffin or Union City.
The Hawks won the Orlando game. They did what they were supposed to do.
I think that down the stretch in the Miami game the Hawks got very tentative. A few speedy layups by Teague might have changed things or maybe some 3s if they started giving Jeff room. Maybe Miami was too smart for us. I dunno. Hawks are surprisingly good this year. Hope they win tonight.
DS
December 13th, 2012
8:37 am
Great win by the Hawks! Can’t wait for Saturday’s game, the Highlight Factory should be completely packed…or I hope…anyway, what’s up with all the negativity towards the team after a W?? Even if we couldn’t blow them out, we still got the W!! Makes you wonder if this blog is just filled with trolls now…
O'brien
December 13th, 2012
8:41 am
Najeh,
Warriors and Wizards have victories over the Heat, but we are 0-2 against them this season. Why can’t we beat Miami?
Rod,
Co-sign. I think mike smith is a good regular season coach, but not a good playoff coach.
TBird
December 13th, 2012
8:42 am
Where are all the genius bb minds that talked about Al Horford being soft….not a “real” center…poor rebounder??? The guy is healthy and an all star….again…while Roy Hibbert one of the many “true centers” average 8 rebounds a game!!!
ag
December 13th, 2012
8:45 am
Great win, but as the December schedule continues, there is a lot about our team we will learn. So far this season, if the playoffs started today, we would be a 3 seed. But..
We are 0-2 against playoff teams in the East! Basically, we have played and lost twice to Miami. We are 7-1 against non-playoff teams in the East.
In the West, we are 3-2 against playoff teams. Saturday we get to face Golden State who we lost to earlier this year. We are 3-1 against non-playoff teams in the West.
ag - FACT CHECKER
December 13th, 2012
8:49 am
Tremaine
November 2nd, 2012
10:13 pm
Put me on record, #2 is going to have a nice season for Utah.
If you call in 19 minutes 2 points 2 rebounds 2 blocks and 3 turnovers on 1-5 shooting… I guess you love our new Marvin Anthony Tolliver. For the season, Marvin is averaging 9.9 ppg and it looks like he is falling out of favor.
The best thing about the Harris for Williams deal is Harris deal expires – we will have $8 million to spread around. That will certainly pay for raises for Josh and Teague – also possibly bringing Harris back on a lower contract!
Just Joe
December 13th, 2012
8:59 am
Horford gets a ton of minutes, which is helping his double-double streak. He’s averaging 37+ minutes a night. Of the top 20 rebounders in the league, only Noah and Lebron avg more minutes.
Pretty solid rebounder, but not elite. 27th in the league in rebounds per 48 minutes. ZaZa is 22nd. Josh is 67th. Ivan (not enough minutes to qualify) would be top 60. Would love to add a young shotblocker to those 4 guys (even though LD would never play him).
ag
December 13th, 2012
9:01 am
C Viv DOES READ OUR BLOGS AND ASK QUESTIONS…. Basically LD was being a A$$ to CViv “He will be well rested for Charlotte” There was nothing more CViv could say. Remember it is a DNP – Coaches Decision. If the Hawks would have lost, then I could see the logic with more questions.
The Hawks pretty much beat Orlando in every phase of the game. If the Hawks would get the killer instinct, maybe we would see more of Jenkins, Scott and Johnson. (Although Johnson does not deserve those type of minutes).
If you guys have noticed, there is one starter on the floor at all times, and for the most part, Josh or Al are on the floor. It has been a while since both are on the bench at the same time. The same rotation is for the guards, you either have Lou or JT0. The days of Harris, Korver, Morrow, Ivan, and ZaZa are over.
Slimjr
December 13th, 2012
9:01 am
Miami attacks Al and Zaza [escort service] with joy! The sea parts ways time and again..Miami’s front line has superior foot speed that allows them to dismantle the Hawks interior defense..
Just a tune up for Miami…
Oh and the guard play is subpar on both ends of the court.
ag
December 13th, 2012
9:06 am
Mike, Stephen A can ask Kobe tougher questions because he is a national reporter. C. Viv is our beat reporter and has to have a great rapport with LD. If he loses that, LD and the team will avoid him like the plague.
KevinM
December 13th, 2012
9:12 am
Slim, you’re still on your game with your LD comments!
Good stats ag! That is what matters with this team.
We haven’t proven much yet, other than we can develop a balanced scoring attack. Did we really look like we could threaten Miami?
I say we struggle with the Bulls, Celtics and Knicks. Those are the measuring sticks for this team.
Our streak against the Magic is impressive though. LD may have a lot of us questioning his moves, but he is building a justification to keeping him because we are distributing the ball around like the Spurs.
Mark Jackson coming to town Saturday with a confident team after that Heat win. This one ought to be fun to watch. Does Jackson get inspired by us not hiring him for more motivation?
drmaryb.(""_*).
December 13th, 2012
9:20 am
Oh Why?
Can anyone on here explain just why The Lakers are so horrible with all their individual talents? This is so baffling to me.
Hey Coach! Play Ivan – fool!
Let’s Go Hawks!
doc
December 13th, 2012
9:23 am
stephen a works for espy, cviv works for ajc, has to live with these guys and look them in the eye every day.
nice job cviv. we can read between the lines as well.
meanwhile, we have the sixth best record in the nba and have wins against 3 of the teams with better records than us. not too shabby for a team thrown together in two weeks early summer. it is way beyond most expectations. oh yeah we are winning most games we should and folks complain about it. see suns vs grid or heat vs warriors, cavs. tough to even win all the supposed to’s in the nba.
then there are those still saying just wait, it wont last long like a nostradamus or basketball expert. of course it won’t! doesnt take a lot of smarts to say that, only a big ego to be stroked. it is still remarkable and worth enjoying or giving cred when cred is due.
good job to our dynamic duo, josh and al! get em some real nba help danny boy.
doc
December 13th, 2012
9:33 am
dynamic duo, you like the sound of that slimj? heh heh
O'brien
December 13th, 2012
9:49 am
Ms Dee,
one of Lakers biggest problems are FT.
They lost to Dallas by 8, but lakers missed 19 FT.
Lost to Spurs by 2, but missed 8 FT
Lost to pacers by 2, missed 20 FT
Lost to Houston by 2, missed 12 FT
lost to Cleveland by 6, missed 15 FT
Lost to Utah by 9, missed 14 FT
If they made more FT (Dwight being the biggest culprit), they would have at least 5 more victories in my opinion.
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
9:51 am
Winning isn’t enough. Evidently, winning is slightly ahead of proper minute distribution. I guess folk have to b!tch about something, huh?
Section 303
December 13th, 2012
9:52 am
I loved the way the Hawks played last night. It felt like they were in control the entire way. Never had the feeling they were going to lose. If the Magic scored 100 pts, the Hawks would have scored 101.
May be early to make this claim, but I’m saying it anyways…From when the Hawks first made the playoffs (2008) to now, I think this is the best Hawks team of that group. They move the ball better, score easier, and play consistent defense better than any team in that timeframe. Any thoughts on that?
vava74
December 13th, 2012
9:57 am
Did not watch the game but watched all the plays shown on the condensed version of the game which can also be watched, one by one on: http://watch.nba.com/nba/games/20121212/ATLORL/21200310?isPost=true
This is a nice way to watch some of the crucial plays and get a feel on how things went.
Particularly impressed with Al’s apparent new spin move to his right when opponents overplay his left trying to take out was his most habitual post move. That was a powerful move and a jam to match.
Section 303
December 13th, 2012
9:57 am
Astro, I agree. I think LD has earned some credibility this season. He is winning me over. I wanted him replaced heading into the season. I do not feel that way now. Really impressive how productive the team is out of timeouts, both on offense and defense.
Also, LD seems to know how when and when not to interject himself in things. That’s just an observation from watching the games live and on TV. I think he is getting the hang of this coaching thing…
My only complaint (and I’m not sure I’m in the right on this)…I would like to see him get on the officials a little more. But, I hate officials. I think they’re all terrible.
Joey
December 13th, 2012
10:04 am
I loose respect for Ferry as he lets LD get away with just being stupid. – Rusty
********************************************
Just wow . . .
MsDee
December 13th, 2012
10:08 am
Combined, both Josh and Horford are averaging 33.8 Pts, 18.7 Rebs and 6.9 assists…Eastern coaches should vote those guys alone to be AllStars this year..boy, would THAT make Josh happy!!!!
vava74
December 13th, 2012
10:20 am
On LD and the Hawks:
It’s still early. Other teams have not yet scouted us and did not take us into consideration as a threat.
We could be going through the same procedure that JJ went:
1st: Early success whilst not being THE player on a team which posed a threat and that had to be scouted and stopped.
2nd: Subsequent struggles once he was properly scouted and became the focus of defenses since he was the most important player of a team which was now a threat.
To avoid the drop in production the Hawks will have to make adjustments faster than the scouting and the adjustments of the opposing teams is made.
We are still undersized all across and have exploitable weaknesses and it’s on LD to disguise and mask them and/or exploit them in our benefit (which is basically COACHING).
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
10:35 am
vava, is it safe to assume that the moment the Hawks have a 2-3 game losing streak is the moment when other teams take us as a threat? It sounds like as long as we’re winning, it is because the other team is not doing enough to win so the moment we start losing is when they decide to stop treating us like a junior high school girl’s team.
hfc95
December 13th, 2012
10:47 am
I find it hilarious so many of us on the blog realize how efficient and productive Ivan Johnson is, we are literally lobbying hard for a guy that plays 10 minutes a game. For whatever the reason may be for LD, personal, tactical, or just completley unaware that he has a guy that actually possess “that killer instinct” and he doesnt utilize him. Our PF and C rotation should be Josh and AL with ZaZa coming in and let Ivan get some time every night to relieve josh and al from playing 35+ a night.
Idk which starting lineup I like better
Jeff-Devin-Kyle-Josh-Al or Jeff-Deshawn-Kyle-Josh-Al
When we go big with Jeff-Kyle-Josh-Al-ZaZa it is great but with devin/deshawn/lou on the bench I feel LD cant get his subs down right when our bench gets guard heavy.
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
10:47 am
Let’s assume for a moment that the objective of a head coach and professional basketball team is to win as many games on your schedule as possible (I know, an absolutely crazy assumption). If you consider that moronic idea, then why not applaud sthe achievement of the goal? Sure, the schedule is going to change… there will be more games to be played and there is always a chance that the winning will give way to the alternative. But, again, assuming that the goal is to win as many games as you can witht he schedule that the league has put before you, why not celebrate success as opposed to sit around and wait for failure?
If you know that the fine lady that you luckily hooked up woth may get up and leave your sorry butt in a few weeks, don’t you enjoy whatever “perks” come with being with that fine lady while you have her? Or do you sit there in the corner with a joystick in your hand waiting for her to finally realize how much of a loser you are?
vava74
December 13th, 2012
10:56 am
AJ,
I am failing to see the logic on your posts. Sorry.
I am merely pointing out that:
1. Yes, nice early season success.
2. Causes for such success may not withstand the rigours of a long season and LD’s previously notorious inability to make adjustments.
I am enjoying the wins, but I am also seeing that there are several factors which should curb our enthusiasm.
Where’s the problem with that?
I know you are a live by the day Hawks’ fan, but guess what, I am too, however, that does not prevent me from being analytic.
I am surprised by the early season success and I am trying to determine why this is happening and how relevant it is.
vava74
December 13th, 2012
11:02 am
The concept is simple:
Yes, I think we have been getting some wins on account of catching other teams a bit with their pants down and that later in the season and against prepped up opponents it will be substantially more difficult.
Just like I think GS is being successful now, early in the season, also on account of a certain level of surprise factor.
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
11:15 am
vava, I guess I don’t understand the point (things may change). is there ever a scenario, where “things may NOT change” in the future? If a key player goes down, things will change for the most elite teams, right? I simply don’t understand the sentiment of issuing a warning that a storm may come. There is ALWAYS a chance that a storm may come. Isn’t that obvious? What’s the point if not to damper the excitement of a fan base? To provide a public safety announcement?
DS
December 13th, 2012
11:18 am
I agree with Astro Joe, LD deserves some credit. This Hawks team is not only winning, but it is actually a fun team to watch now.
“I think we have been getting some wins on account of catching other teams a bit with their pants down.” Really? The reason we are winning is because “we are catching them with their pants down”? I know that you live in Portugal, but you should try to watch a couple of more games…and not only Hawks game, watch other games too, because I seriously doubt you understand the NBA.
vava74
December 13th, 2012
11:21 am
AJ,
No. That’s not the point. The point is: “are we real or a temporary illusion”, not “things will change”.
Things can always change, but as fans of the Hawks and fans of basketball it is interesting to discuss WHY and HOW we are winning instead of only sitting and watching.
When you know WHY and HOW you are winning, you can plan (or in our case, as fans, simply conjecture and issue couch GM opinions) how you can improve and sustain momentum.
DS
December 13th, 2012
11:23 am
Not a rap music fan at all, but I’m glad to see that management is bringing some local artists to perform during Hawks game. TI will be performing on halftime on Dec 22 for the Bulls game. Danny Ferry is really turning around this franchise!
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
11:23 am
It is a beautiful, sunny day in Atlanta today.
WARNING – Rain may come sometime in the next few weeks. Don’t expect sunny days indefinitely.
You have been warned.
You can thank me later.
DS
December 13th, 2012
11:26 am
Best post of the day, Astro Joe (11:23 am)
vava74
December 13th, 2012
11:30 am
AJ,
Wrong again:
You look outside and you see the sun and feel warmth.
You want to go to the beach.
Don’t you want to know the forecast? Is it worth to load the car, change clothes and get on your way without knowing if the weather will suddenly change?
Why don’t you simply watch old tapes, strictly of Hawks’ wins?
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
11:52 am
vava, okay seriously. I don’t know if this is sustainable but I guess I don’t really care. Sure, teams will make some adjustments to take advantage of some of the roster deficiencies (i.e., size) but it isn’t like 25+ teams have the size and skill required to take advantage of that weakness. I fully expected the Hawks to win around 42 games this year and I would be thrilled if they beat that prediction by 10+ games. I do think they will eventually endure their own version of rainy days (either due to competition level or eventual injuries or bonehaeded decisions by players/head coach), but isn’t that true of every team? I think there is a good chance that the Lakers current problems will be a distant memory by the time the playoffs start (assuming Nash is healthy). I’d venture that every team with several new key players and/or new head coach and/or new status (like GSW) can reasonably wonder “if they are for real”.
Here’s what I appreciate, we’re not getting the “it takes time to build chemistry when you add this many new pieces to the puzzle” BS (like I am sure other fan bases are hearing).
Slimjr
December 13th, 2012
11:56 am
In other Sports News:
“Huge Football game this Sunday..A must win for the Giants!! The Giants are a desperate team fighting for their playoff lives…
The Falcons and Matt Ryan can quite the show me crowd..
Will they show up or meltdown once again?” Hmmmmmm
Slimjr
December 13th, 2012
12:02 pm
Memo to Coach Smith:
Their have the film.
Have NFL Defenses caught up to Coach Mike Smith Offense?
@ 2-2, his QB has only 6 touchdowns but 8 huge turnovers in the past 4 games..
MsDee
December 13th, 2012
12:03 pm
“Why don’t you simply watch old tapes, strictly of Hawks’ wins?”
Naw, Vava74, why dont YOU watch other team games and ask them those same questions. Boston, Miami, Lakers, Clippers, Memphis….have had up and down games. Not ALL their games were lost due to “their pants being caught down”, maybe just because the other teams scouted them to the point of knowing how to defend them where they are weak at. Heck, with out 2 loses in the past 12 games, the only difference I saw in those loses was Korver not being there. He left early that Cavs game with no return and of course was out during the Heat’s game. WE HAVE PLAYED TO OUR STRENGTHS WHILE TAKING CARE OF OUR OPPONENTS WEAKNESSES!!
I see NO rainy clouds in the sky AS LONG as Hawks CONTINUE to PLAY TO OUR STRENGTHS WHILE TAKING CARE OF OUR OPPONENTS WEAKNESSES!!
Slim
December 13th, 2012
12:03 pm
The good thing about wins is that it builds trust, chemistry, and most of all confidence amongst the team and coaches. The hawks will continue to get better offensively. In my opinion despite the early success, the hawks haven’t played there best basketball yet.
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
12:05 pm
vaqva, when I want to know the weather, I get that info from a meterologist who spent years in school learning how to read highly sophisticated models and historical data to determine how to forecast the weather 7-10 days out.
So now, watching basketball games on TV and blogging about it makes us the equivalent of a meterologist? And we’re so good, we can predict months out.
Trust me, I ain’t asking no one on this blog to forecast the weather when I make a beach trip.
WOw.
Slimjr
December 13th, 2012
12:09 pm
[They]^^^
vava74
December 13th, 2012
12:32 pm
AJ,
So why bother come here to the blog? We are supposed to discuss the Hawks and play couch HC and couch GM.
That’s the whole point of following sports on a blog beyond simply watching games. Never said that my commentaries would be a reliable forecast.
Why don’t you simply tell Buddy to shut down his blog since – god forbid – we fans should not have any opinions on why and how things are going…
You are back to your old ways man… your interest is not bball, just to prowl and do something we call in Portugal “mandar postas de pescada”…
The Truth
December 13th, 2012
12:33 pm
“For our team, we are going to have to learn to develop a killer instinct when we get a team down,” Hawks coach Larry Drew said. “Right now, we don’t have it. We bobble too many balls. We miss too many fast-break opportunities. We have too many defensive breakdowns when we get leads. We allow teams to get back into games” – LD
I double the diversity of readers comes to the Hawks blog to read about giggles and cheers and nothing more.
LD didn’t seem overly thrill with the victory. This was the HC assessment of the game. It certainly wasn’t a rah-rah great victory speech but a real and honest critique of his team performance. If LD was a blogging fan making these same statements on this blog, he would be criticized for not enjoying the victory; a party pooper, perhaps even labeled as sour grapes for stealing the enjoy from the rose-colored-glasses group during this fine holiday season.
I doubt the diversity of readers comes to the Hawks blog to read about giggles and cheers and nothing more.
LoL a typical day in Hawksville
Ryder
December 13th, 2012
12:36 pm
Great win by the Hawks tonight. Nitpick if you want, but what I saw was a team that (in the past) would’ve allowed a lesser team like Orlando to come back and win this game. I do think we will see more of the bench (re: Ivan Johnson) tonight against Charlotte. Can’t let the foot off the pedal now, especially with Golden State coming up Saturday.
One poster on Vivlamore’s blog made an interesting point about trading for Tyreke Evans of Sacramento. I completely agree with him in that Atlanta needs more offensive firepower if they even hope to overcome the Heat, Knicks, and even Chicago once Rose gets healthy. I fear that at best Atlanta will remain a middle of the road playoff team that can’t get over the hump unless a change is made, and it’s been evident as the season progresses.
Ryder
December 13th, 2012
12:40 pm
Larry Drew has done an amazing job of getting this team to play together, and credit the leaders of this team (Josh, Horford, Teague) with setting the culture which has led to this fast start. Atlanta can’t let their guard down tonight against Charlotte, lest they remember Ben Gordon lighting them up like a Christmas tree last time they met.
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
12:42 pm
vava, I come here to celebrate wins and enjoy the fellowship of a common bond of Hawks fans. Not to b!tch about minute distribution, suggest that we’re winning because the competition doesn’t take us seriously or predict doom and despair in the future.
And I come here to antagonize people like you.
Pack an umbrella.
doc
December 13th, 2012
12:43 pm
well my two cents worth ended in the blog monster’s hopper. hate it when that happens.
doc
December 13th, 2012
12:46 pm
my two cents worth were along the lines of aj.
i did declare both the falcons and hawks would not win it all this year, and i would guarantee it but fall on my sword if they did, happily.
cant rain on my parade.
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
1:19 pm
The Truth, identifying the weaknesses of the roster, individual players or head coach is a little different than predicting inevitable doom. And the head coach should NOT be satisfied with a less than perfect victory… especially when the team toook far too many 3s during the Orlando game. Someone brilliant blogger kept begging them to stop shooting 3s even before Orlando got the deficit down to a 2 possession game.
Some folk act like a victory that doesn’t include Ivan Johnson playing 10+ minutes shouldn’t count on the record books.
Slimjr
December 13th, 2012
1:23 pm
Coach Larry knows his Hawks should have buried Orlando..
But their sloppy guard play and front line escort service fully engaged, that blowout never came to fruition…
He should be ticked off!
Rod from College Park
December 13th, 2012
1:39 pm
Some of us also understand that playing our bigs 35 to 40 minutes a game early in the season, when there is a more than servicable backup, who rebounds better than almost anybody on the team is very stubborn and foolish. We as Hawks fans have seen the stars on the team burn out come playoff time too many times in recent history to fall for that again. Also Ivan Johnson is better than the Jason Collins, Eric Dampier’s of the world, so most of us would like to see him get more time and develop so that if we do actually need him later in the year, he will have the experience and confidence to help this team. Not playing him, for whatever reason LD is putting out there is just plaijn foolish, especially against the Charlottes, Orlando’s, and Washington’s of the NBA because we know he won’t play against the big boys.
vava74
December 13th, 2012
1:44 pm
AJ
“vava, I come here to celebrate wins and enjoy the fellowship of a common bond of Hawks fans.”
Do you mean the fellowship of Hawks’ fans who don’t care if we don’t win a championship and are just here to get “entertained” by the NBA product?
Even I, who have a more detached approach to sports fan-hood, don’t want to be on that fellowship.
I want to see the Hawks win it all and I reserve my right to issue my opinion amongst fellow Hawks’ fans on what appears to be going well or bad.
Slimjr
December 13th, 2012
1:47 pm
Yea I know Josh had 5 blocks at the 3..
But he’s no rim protector playing small forward.. That may work against the scrubs, but Miami aint no scrub..
But great job by Josh taking up the slack on [D] for the other 4 slackers.Josh feeds Al better than ISO did.. lol
Steve Smith, it is a travesty!
vava74
December 13th, 2012
1:53 pm
Rod from College Park
December 13th, 2012
1:39 pm
Co-sign. Why on hell shouldn’t we b!tch when is clear that not playing Ivan is detrimental to the future of this franchise?
DNP-CD two games in a row because he got an unfair Tech? Should we always get on refs’ faces when there is bad call? Heck no, but we should not roll over either.
LD should accept Ivan’s quirks the same way he accepts Josh’s.
Getting a tech and FT against is not worse than Josh launching an ill advised jump shot early in the clock or one of his classic fast break turnovers.
Talk about it, try and get Ivan to understand that he needs to stay as much as possible under the radar but don’t bench him.
If Ivan was playing 20 minutes per game and averaging 10 and 5, day in and day out drawing charges and fouls as he does consistently when he gets his minutes, he would be much more respected in the league and less targeted by the refs as he is now as a fringe rotation player.
PROJECT Ivan as a legit NBA player whilst keeping some good advice flowing into his ears. DON’T undermine him and make him look foolish for being who he is.
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
1:53 pm
How does a head coach earn “trust” from the fan base? By winning games. If LD needed to keep Ivan on the bench, then as the head coach of the surprisingly owner of the 3rd best record in the confierence, I will trust him. If/when he is the owner of the 7th best record in the conference, he will lose some trust and that may no longer be the case. But as of today, the Hawks are winning and if he thinks certain guys need to ride that pine, so be it.
vava, I have no desire to stop you from voicing your opinion but I do get to comment on your opinion. The Hawks are ~20 games into the season, excuse me if I am not yet thinking about championships and playoffs.
I’ve watched too much basketball to believe that the decisions a head coach makes on a Wednesday against a lottery-bound team will be replicated in May against a playoff team.
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
2:00 pm
We have a head coach who changes his starting line-up more often than some of y’all make up your bed… yet some are acting as if LD should be setting his playoff roster today and maintaining it until May.
If the Hawks learn to blowout some teams, then Josh & Al can get some rest. I bet you that the Hawks have also not been the losers of as many blowout games as in previous years, meaning that Al and Josh are on the floor at the end of those games as well. Maybe I was the only one who saw LD rest those guys a little earlier than expected the other night in Miami.
Its not simply about Ivan.
Ken Strickland
December 13th, 2012
2:03 pm
It’s good to be back. I had some computer and internet problems that kept me off line. The Hawks have been playing well as a team, and I expect that to continue throughout the season. Unlike in the past, we have several players, rather than just 1 or 2, with individual scoring ability(Williams, Korver, Harris, Teague, Horford, Morrow, and Josh) that can carry the team for stretches during a gm.
We’ve even seen IJohnson have spurts where he’s carried the team, and I believe if given a chance, JJenkins could definitely carry the team offensively for periods at a time. With us having back to back gms, it was downright stupidity on LDrew part for refusing to play Ivan while over playing Horford. This team, as constructed, can ill afford that type of arrogant stupidity from Drew.
He seems to be pulling the same selective coaching approach that MWoodson employed. That was to come down hard on the younger players while looking the other way when it comes to dealing with vets that really need decipline the most. While Drew has done a good job of coaching overall, we need someone who’ll do a better job of keeping personal issues and hangups from interferring with player and team development.
vava74
December 13th, 2012
2:06 pm
AJ,
I think Ivan has the potential to be KEY to our post season success.
Not playing him and undermining him for the sake of nothing when LD uses double standards every time is not my cup of tea.
Slimjr
December 13th, 2012
2:11 pm
Larry your blatant discrimination against Ivan is disheartening to say the least..
Your personal bias should not come before the team goal of becoming a contender..
Get out of the kitchen if its too hot for ya..
Slimjr
December 13th, 2012
2:14 pm
Doc how does this sound:
Woody is 19-1 at home as head coach of the Knicks. Music to my ears.. lol!
34-11
16-5
11-2, Playoffs?
bfred
December 13th, 2012
2:19 pm
Joe – the issue to me is I’m afraid of a Woodson-style shortening of the bench. As the Hawks move through the season there will be injuries and cold spells that will require substitutions and to ask a bunch of guys who have been riding the pine developing hardening of the arteries from inactivity is begging for trouble. Against the Heat, when it was bombs-away time late in the 4th, doesn’t it maybe make sense to have last year’s #1 long-range shooter in the NCAA on the court putting up those shots? When you’re up 15 in the 4th against a lesser team doesn’t it make sense to rest your center who has played almost the entire game? Leaving him in sure didn’t help protect that lead very well, probably because he was tiring out.
I get what you’re saying – win when you can – but to suggest there’s little value in resting players and getting meaningful PT for the backups makes no sense.
Gwinnett Fred
December 13th, 2012
2:24 pm
This is a team to feel real good about. But it’s only because they are doing what they’ve done in the past few years for less money.
They still are not good enough to contend for the Championship, and anything less should not be a teams goal.
So put those 2 things together and things would align in some kind of special way if they can keep Josh and a couple other key reserves and then spend the freed up money to land a super stud (Howard?) next year.
Seriously ASG, do you have any idea what a sold out arena most every night would look like? Well, get that superstar in here (not pay superstar money to a very good player – aka JJ) and give the city a real hope for a title and you will find out!
Grandad
December 13th, 2012
2:30 pm
Look fellas,
I think Ivan especially and JJenkins should be playing,
Ivan moreso than JJ.
However, in Ivan`s case we don`t know the whole story.
It seems to me that there is more than meets the eye.
In this particular case, we need to cut LD some slack
and let the situation play out.
MsDee
December 13th, 2012
2:31 pm
Chris Vivlamore @ajchawks
Josh Smith 8th in All-Star voting for front court players in East. #ATLHawks
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
2:33 pm
Again, a head coach earns trust (from me) by winning. Because of the shortened season, some may not recognize this, but LD is putting together consecutive 50+ type winning seasons. Last year, without Al (and Joe missing several games) and this year with a hodge-podge of players. And yes, i am ONLY talking about the regular season. There is more of a sample across roughly 80+ games than the 6 from last year’s playoff series.
vava, maybe I missed it, but do we know that Ivan was “benched” because of the technical foul the other night?
Here’s an open question, if you know that a player has had serious anger management issues… like literally being thrown out of an entire basketball league because of emotional outbursts; if you know that those emotional issues have negatively impacted his professional basketball career, don’t you potentially handle that player differently than other players? What if the Hawks consulted a sports pyschologist who suggested an “early intervention” strategy for Ivan. Do you need to have his psychiatric records publicized (which is illegal) for you to consider that maybe immediate discipline and consequence management is the advised approach from professional behaviorists?
OK, so if you don’t want to get that deep (or speculative), I refer you back to my previous posts. LD has earned a little trust, the team is winning (which is the objective) and the rottation decisions in December do not serve as a prediction of rotation decisions in May.
But I do stand by the assertion that the way a boss manages Ivan’s anger issues (IF that does have something to do with his DNP-CDs) is and should be different than how he handles other players who have not had comparable issues. The way you manage a person with a common cold is different than how you handle someone dealing with pneumonia.
cdog
December 13th, 2012
2:34 pm
jeff teague played smarter against the majic than he did against the heat.jeff, stop trying to do too much. just play the point.the hawks have players for every other aspect of the game needed.just play hard and smart. same to josh smith.the hawks should prevail tonight.
High-sider
December 13th, 2012
2:39 pm
Ken Strickland [REPOST],
So much for “him” giving up more [points] than “he” scores. [The number(s)/stat(s) is/are subject to change.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
High-sider
December 12th, 2012
6:44 pm
Rod from College Park
December 12th, 2012
6:14 pm
“while Morrow can’t adequately defend anyone.”
Neither can Korver, or as many say on this blog neither can Jamal, but it’s funny how the Clippers are one of the top 10 defensive teams in the league with Jamal playing major minutes. Hmm…..
—————————————————————————————
Guess who has the best [individual aggregate] +/- stats for the Clips so far this [regular] season. Ain’t that about a “blimp” – hmmm.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22012&split=9&team=Clippers
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
2:39 pm
bfred, I don’t disagree that extended playing time is detrimental to players. I just don’t think that what we’ve seen int he last 3-4 games is what we’ll see in the next 60. it wouldn’t surprise me if LD had to lean on Al & Josh in part because Korver was missing. I know, different positions and skill levels, but we have read that Korver is very vocal on the defensive side of the court… maybe LD wasn’t comfortable without having a vocal defender on the floor during stretches of the game. I am speculating, of course. But the speculation is based on things published previously.
High-sider
December 13th, 2012
2:43 pm
Ken Strickland [REPOST]
Here’s another [post/comment] to “chew on.” [Again, the number(s)/stat(s) is/are subject to change.]
—————————————————————–
High-sider
December 12th, 2012
7:00 pm
Guess which [five] Clippers’ players are included in the team’s best five-player combination [with respect to +/- statistics (+55)] so far this season – hmmm.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22012&split=9&team=Clippers
“Guess who has the best [individual aggregate] +/- stats for the Clips so far this [regular] season. Ain’t that about a “blimp” – hmmm.”
Team high [individual aggregate] +/- [statistic/number/integer/value] of +147 goes to [none other than] ____________ [fill in the blank].
O'brien
December 13th, 2012
3:07 pm
AJ also trusted Mike Woodson for not playing Teague, saying maybe Teague was not ready. Come to find out…Teague said woody told him at the start of the season that he would not play. May e woody decided he wasn’t ready based in training camp
Also, if Teague had played more in his first 2 seasons, I think he would be further along in his development. So trusting a HC only goes so far.
Woody was winning 50 games with his iso-JJ, but was it sustainable in the playoffs? No. So just because he was winning 47+ games doesn’t mean I have to agree (and trust) all his decisions
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
3:14 pm
OB, yeah, that was Teague’s side of the story. And we all know, it only takes one side to get a story completely right. I mean, if it had been something like “you are too passive, you haven’t learned the plays, you need to hit the weight room, diversify your shots at the rim, fight through screens and try to study the scouting report”, I’m sure Teague would have offered that up also.
Everyone is free to opinionate as they feel. I personally think folk who complain about minute distribution during a 10 out of 12 winning period are just finding something to b!tch about. We all are free to look silly around here.
Section 303
December 13th, 2012
3:18 pm
O’brien, you could also make a case that Teague was handled well. He was ready when they needed him to be in the 2011 Playoff series with the Bulls. There’s a chance Teague would have come in a complete bust and be out of the league right now, had he been thrown into the fire from day one. Who knows? All we know is that, right now, Teague is good. And, really, that is what matters.
Section 303
December 13th, 2012
3:20 pm
Slimjr, you do realize that the Magic had been playing well coming into last night, right? And, this is the NBA….not going to blow out many teams at their own arena. Survive and advance.
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
3:21 pm
Section 303, co-sign!!!!!!!!!!!!
bfred
December 13th, 2012
3:22 pm
AJ, I disagree with the assertion that workload management is irrelevant in December. Once a player gets fatigued it’s hard for him to catch up. It’s similar to overworking a pitcher – there’s only so many effective innings in his arm before deadness or injury. A tired player is also more likely to get hurt. Would I have Ivan and Jenkins out there in late and close situations? No. Would I have Jenkins shooting 3’s when down 10 on the road to the defending champions or Ivan guarding the rim with a big lead against an inferior team? Yes.
bfred
December 13th, 2012
3:25 pm
By the way, I’m not looking for something to complain about – I’m thrilled the Hawks are playing so well. But these are in-game decisions that protect your starters while not impairing your ability to close out a game.
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
3:44 pm
bfred, I disagree with the basketball player/pitcher comparison. Pitchers are over-exerting a very narrow and specific set of muscles with a repeated, unnatural motion. It is even different than what happens with a position player. In fact, I can’t think of another position in sports that is as “utility-limited” as a baseball pitcher. Maybe a pro bowler?
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
3:47 pm
bfred, if Al and Josh are still playing 40 minutes over the next 5-6 games, I’ll join your rant.
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
3:50 pm
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/minutes
DS
December 13th, 2012
3:58 pm
Smoove 8th on forwards for allstar voting??? There shouldn’t be more than 4 players ahead of Josh this year….fans should be allowed to vote only once…Big Al and Smoove will be allstars!
doc
December 13th, 2012
4:19 pm
slimj, you know i said that the knicks could be scary way back in july. said amare or not. as far as the playoffs they will go as far as woody’s players take him. he is along fir the ride. ususlly when it is time to go to the higher rings of thebplayiff pyramid ciachingg becomes more important. let us wait and see. i think woody is more loaded than say mike smith is. heh heh, to mix sports.
Astro Joe
December 13th, 2012
4:26 pm
doc, a lot of sports mash-ups today. I am particularly proud of my bowling reference earlier
High-sider
December 13th, 2012
5:04 pm
doc,
“slimj, you know i said that the knicks could be scary way back in july. said amare or not. as far as the playoffs they will go as far as woody’s players take him. he is along fir the ride. ususlly when it is time to go to the higher rings of thebplayiff pyramid ciachingg becomes more important. let us wait and see. i think woody is more loaded than say mike smith is. heh heh, to mix sports.” – doc @4:19pm, 12/13/2012
So, is Coach [Lawrence] Frank a better coach than Woody? [And] Coach Frank is able to get a “second chance”?
Coach Frank’s record from 2009 – 2010, 2011 – present:
‘09 – ‘10 NJN 0 – 16 [0.000]
‘11 – ‘12 DET 25 – 41 [0.379]
‘12 – pres. DET 7 – 17 [0.292]
http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/frankla99c.html
High-sider
December 13th, 2012
5:09 pm
^Correction/edition:
Coach Frank’s record from 2009 – 2010, 2011 – present:
‘09 – ‘10; NJN; 0 – 16 [0.000]
‘11 – ‘12; DET; 25 – 41 [0.379]
‘12 – pres.; DET; 7 – 17 [0.292]
http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/frankla99c.html
doc
December 13th, 2012
5:13 pm
slimj, werent we 34 and 7 with woody one year for home games? flip side we werent winning the away games at a similar rate, not even .500. maybe we didnt even win more than half on the road. wasnt that one of the things ld focused on when he came here that first year, figuring out a way to win better on the road. i think he called it you have to play smarter and control momentum and it worked. then he figured a way to slay d12 and the magic.
some say he lost the bulls series and maybe he did. i saw some beef handling our guys. even korver maybe doing something to alter jc1’s game. wasnt he on the bulls as the jc1 equivalent on the bulls? just saying but he must not have because we all know that he cant play defense.
i know some point to ld as the cause jc1 didn’t deliver. guess it was lds fault that jc1 didnt have the stellar year he had with woody or was that because he was worried about a contract year and not quite up to form. maybe it was more he was upset because the brinks didnt get brought to the house he rented and trashed in buckhead?
never know what to expect from you aj. heh heh
doc
December 13th, 2012
5:19 pm
high sider, wtf is that about? what is your point and how did franks get in on it? franks also started about 19-0 with the nets the beast ever, didnt he but he never was with the knicks so again wtf are you talking about and why? maybe you got the wrong new york area team?
i am talking about woody and his ability to deliver in the playoffs. again relate to me the relevance of what you are asking and i will attempt to answer. right now it makes no sense no matter how i read it or interpret it.
i will say woody and the knicks should get closer to the promised land than the hawks as presently constructed woody or not. i like that team. again, they will get as far as the players take em. not bad but no phil jackson there in the making or red or doc. again, not bad either.
Ken Strickland
December 13th, 2012
5:36 pm
ASTRO JOE-I find it very hard to imagine Woodson would have those issues with Teague while insisting on running an extremely slow, nonaggressive, unathletic, DEF liability, and none agressive none penetrating one dimensional PG like Bibby. Then again, if he did take that stance, it proves he was an absolute ASS.
High-sider
December 13th, 2012
5:37 pm
To: keith and doc
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keith
December 12th, 2012
10:33 pm
Right now Lou Williams is the only Hawk I have on any of my Fantasy Teams. However, if the Coach will allow our best player and shooter, Kyle Korver, to get into rhythm, this guy will score 25ppg. I would definitely ad Korver to my fantasy team…
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“…some say he lost the bulls series and maybe he did. i saw some beef handling our guys. even korver maybe doing something to alter jc1’s game. wasnt he on the bulls as the jc1 equivalent on the bulls? just saying but he must not have because we all know that he cant play defense.
i know some point to ld as the cause jc1 didn’t deliver. guess it was lds fault that jc1 didnt have the stellar year he had with woody or was that because he was worried about a contract year and not quite up to form. maybe it was more he was upset because the brinks didnt get brought to the house he rented and trashed in buckhead?…” – doc @5:13pm, dated 12/13/2012
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Here is a theme song for you [two].
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gly18qDStbg
High-sider
December 13th, 2012
5:50 pm
To: doc
Woody took over a bad Hawks team and “coached it up” to a playoff team by his fourth year in Atlanta. Woody [also] took over a “direction-less,” under-performing Knicks team [last season] and, now, this Knicks team is currently a No. 1 seed in the Eastern Conference.
Coach Lawrence Frank took over a Nets squad that had made it to two consecutive NBA Finals in 2002 and 2003 and turned that [Nets] team into a perennial lottery doormat.
vava74
December 13th, 2012
5:56 pm
Teague came out blazing in his first pre-season but ended with a huge dud against ORL, probably after Woody told him he would not play anyhow.
Woody then spent the whole season yanking him at every minimal mistake and giving him dnp-cd treatment even if he had shown promise in the previous game.
Last game of the season, against the cavs missing – if memory serves me right – only Lebron and Shaq, but featuring Delonte, Jamison and several other pretty decent NBA rotational players, Teague played all 48 minutes and ended with 24 and 12.
Teague saw no relevant daylight in the playoffs and we were humiliated by the Magic when Bibby and Jamal failed to make a single stop on D and Woody refused to simply play Howard man to man.
I am sorry that I am underwhelmed on how Woody treated Teague…
Onto LD: same number with the added wrinkle that LD gave hope in the press for Teague, praising him but then giving him the same DNP-CD even after good games, all whilst riding probably the sorriest excuse of a starting PG the NBA has ever seen in what was the corpse that Bibby had become in his last year with us AND insisting in playing Jamal at the point where he could not produce his offense neither facilitate for others.
Enter the playoffs and with Kirk down, Teague plays virtually toe to toe with Rose… But we lose the series because LD refuses to give minutes to Zaza.
Last year, ditto, with Zaza down and Smoove out for one game and hobbled for games 3 to 6, LD hardly gives any minutes to the rookie of the month of April who had shown he could go toe to toe with both long and nimble guys like Bosh and sturdy and crafty guys like M. Gasol.
Sorry AJ, I don’t question LD’s X’s and O’s but his record as a “manager” is cr@p for me and it’s not this fast start that will make me change my mind.
When push comes to shove I know that LD will again miss manage personnel and fog me he is already doing it with Ivan and pushing all the wrong buttons.
This will probably end ip badly with Ivan punching him.
Slimjr
December 13th, 2012
6:06 pm
The Hawks were so bad, they only won what 13 games in Woody’s 1st year as Head Coach?
Boy did he turn that ship around? hmmmm
Slimjr
December 13th, 2012
6:07 pm
Get your popcorn ready!
Lakers vs.Knicks tonight on TNT!
keith
December 13th, 2012
6:22 pm
Welcome Back Kyle
Opposing teams “fear” Kyle Korver. They are not backing off him when he is beyond the 3 point line. When was the last time we had an Atlanta Hawk Basketball Player that garnered that much respect for his Basketball ability?
High-sider
December 13th, 2012
6:22 pm
To: vava74
“…Teague saw no relevant daylight in the playoffs and we were humiliated by the Magic when Bibby and Jamal failed to make a single stop on D and Woody refused to simply play Howard man to man.” – vava74 @5:56pm, 12/13/2012
Jamal Crawford’s individual game +/- stats during that 2010 EC Semis vs. the Orlando Magic ranged from +4 to -35. Most Hawks’ players that played “heavy minutes” during that 2010 second round playoff series vs. the Magic posted horrendous +/- stats/numbers.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/plus_minus_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&output=total&year_min=2010&year_max=2010&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=ATL&opp_id=ORL&game_num_min=8&game_num_max=11&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=ge&c4val=&order_by=diff_pts
keith
December 13th, 2012
6:27 pm
Kyle Korver and John Jenkins have “elite” shooting skills. Right now, Korver, Jenkins, and Lou Williams, are the only Hawks that i would not include in any trade scenario going forward!!
High-sider
December 13th, 2012
6:28 pm
To: vava74
“…Last game of the season, against the cavs missing – if memory serves me right – only Lebron and Shaq, but featuring Delonte, Jamison and several other pretty decent NBA rotational players, Teague played all 48 minutes and ended with 24 and 12.” – vava74 @5:56pm, 12/13/2012
Actually, the box score shows Jeff Teague had 24 points, 15 assists and five rebounds in 48 minutes [of game time].
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201004140ATL.html
High-sider
December 13th, 2012
6:50 pm
To: vava74
“…Enter the playoffs and with Kirk down, Teague plays virtually toe to toe with Rose…” – vava74 @5:56pm, 12/13/2012
2011 EC Semis Hawks vs. Bulls:
Derrick Rose – 29.8ppg, 9.8apg and 4.3rpg
Jeff Teague – 14.8ppg, 4.2apg and 2.8rpg
vava74, you trippin’, trippin’, trippin……
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=teaguje01&p2=rosede01