Atlanta Hawks: New bench rotation during five-game win streak
Vivlamore reporting.
Coach Larry Drew has changed the way he has used his bench during the Hawks’ current five-game win streak. No need to change what has worked he said Tuesday, a day before the Hawks host the Bobcats.
The notable changes have been an increased playing time for the starting unit, more minutes for Ivan Johnson and Anthony Morrow and a decrease in time for Anthony Tolliver.
Drew said the moves are a combination of a changing philosophy and the specific defensive matchups against each opponent.
Johnson is averaging 12.6 minutes and Morrow 12.0 minutes over the win streak, an increase from their early-season time. Tolliver has played under four minutes in the one game in the last five played.
“I used (Tolliver) a lot early and I wasn’t using Ivan at all or limited,” Drew said. “But Ivan has really been playing well. He’s been doing a good job for us coming off the bench bringing toughness, bringing energy. I’m going to stay with what’s working. I’ve already had a talk with Anthony. He’s aware of it. He knows he has to stay ready just in case.”
The Hawks’ bench has been outscored in each of the five wins. It’s a statistic that Drew can live with as long as the reserves bring a defensive presence first.
“Our bench ranks up there defensively,” Drew said. “As I’ve told them before, when they come into the game I want them to come in and think about defending first and then offense second.”
As a team, the Hawks lead the NBA is forced turnovers per game (18.0), are second in opponent field-goal percentage (.427), third in points allowed (92.1) and fifth in steals per game (8.9) and opponent 3-point field-goal percentage (.328).
Injury report
Kyle Korver (stiff back) and Devin Harris (toe) did not practice Tuesday. Drew said there was no need for Korver to aggravate his back at a practice. Drew also said Harris is “feeling much, much better” and expects the guard to play Wednesday after missing last week’s game against the Clippers.
Josh Smith (sore knee) was a limited practice participant and will play against the Bobcats.
Win streak
In the Hawks’ five-game win streak, they have beaten teams with a combined record of 24-41 (going into Tuesday’s NBA schedule). Only the Clippers, at 8-6, are above .500.
ESPN adds game
The Hawks game against the Nuggets on Wednesday, Dec. 5 will now be televised by ESPN and the game time changed to 8 p.m. The game was originally a 7:30 p.m. start. The network dropped the Bulls at Cavs game that night.
Also, ESPN will not broadcast the Feb. 20 game against the Heat. The network will instead broadcast the Hornets at Cavs game.
Game time for the Hawks-Heat will remain 8 p.m. The game is currently not scheduled to be televised. However, it’s under consideration by SportSouth to add the game.
All-Star voting
The first voting update for the NBA All-Star Game will be Dec. 13.
Al Horford, Jeff Teague and Smith are the Hawks’ representatives on the ballot for the game to be played in Houston on Feb. 17. Balloting ends Jan. 14 and the starters will be announced Jan. 17 on TNT. Voting began Nov. 13.
- Chris Vivlamore
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108 comments Add your comment
Samurai Squirrel
November 27th, 2012
3:58 pm
I win
Samurai Squirrel
November 27th, 2012
4:02 pm
Weird questions C-Viv, but what time do the Hawks practice? Do they all show up at the last minute, are some showing up an hour before practice, or are they all pretty prompt? Who is the leader during the practices? Is it usually 1st team versus second team? Do post players practice their skills on one side of the court while the shooters are on the other end? Which coach is the most vocal?
I just wonder what the practice of an NBA team is like.
Grandad
November 27th, 2012
4:13 pm
When I was coaching;
the single most important defensive stat [for me] was opp fg%.
The 2nd was def rebounds;
which I considered [boxing out] the final phase of defense.
Also, steals and deflections `can’ be `as’ important
as blocking shots;
unless said team has a legit rim protector,
then pressure def becomes more important.
*[When a team has both = Championship]
**(pressure def + rim protector)
Grandad
November 27th, 2012
4:14 pm
Samurai Squirrel
Excellent Questions !
Rod from College Park
November 27th, 2012
4:24 pm
“I used (Tolliver) a lot early and I wasn’t using Ivan at all or limited,” Drew said. “But Ivan has really been playing well. He’s been doing a good job for us coming off the bench bringing toughness, bringing energy. I’m going to stay with what’s working. I’ve already had a talk with Anthony. He’s aware of it. He knows he has to stay ready just in case.”
All he had to do was read the blog, and he would have known this much earlier.
hambone
November 27th, 2012
4:26 pm
What happened to john Jenkis?
Darrell
November 27th, 2012
4:38 pm
@Hambone, too many off-guard options in front of him.
Slimjr
November 27th, 2012
4:42 pm
Larry your freakin Hilarious…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Anthony should be glued to a bench…Yawn….
“*[When a team has both = Championship]
**(pressure def + rim protector)” -Grandad-
Coach you may have confirmed what Danny has said: he believes his team is only 2 years away from competing with the elites for a Finals? Hmmmmm
What happened to John who?
Enough said…
Grimey
November 27th, 2012
4:42 pm
Vote for our hawks on all star team
Slimjr
November 27th, 2012
4:47 pm
This season is not Fools gold…
Teague playing major minutes now will take this team to new heights.
A 2 seed/55-57 wins possibly..
swatguy
November 27th, 2012
4:48 pm
Perhaps the return of Damon James?
GT Alum
November 27th, 2012
4:52 pm
“But Ivan has really been playing well. He’s been doing a good job for us coming off the bench bringing toughness, bringing energy.”
Hmm, Ivan’s been doing exactly what he did for us last season, the things that led us to keep him for this season. Drew’s not exactly what you’d call a quick learner, is he?
MsDee
November 27th, 2012
4:57 pm
GT Alum,
“Drew’s not exactly what you’d call a quick learner, is he?”
Too funny!!
Flash
November 27th, 2012
4:59 pm
Shame, Ezeli was available when Jenkins was taken. Big body, rim protector, etc. vs another shooter?
prison mike
November 27th, 2012
5:24 pm
Always convenient to use hindsight. But the JJ pick did not tickle the fanbases fancy. Ezuli, Jeff Taylor, and Draymond Green are the better player.
Art Vandelay
November 27th, 2012
5:29 pm
So, lemme get this straight: ESPN would rather show Hornets vs. Cavs in prime time over Hawks vs. Heat. Am I missing something here? Who’s making the programming decisions up in Bristol these days?
Runner-
November 27th, 2012
5:31 pm
Wow, way to realize it LD!!
keith
November 27th, 2012
5:33 pm
Perry Jones III was available when the Hawks made their pick. PJ III is a modern day Robert Horry, Rashard Lewis, hybrid. He can flat out ball. 2-3 years from now, we will be sorry.
Astro Joe
November 27th, 2012
5:38 pm
Anthony Davis vs. Kyrie Irving. Consider it the NBA’s marketing version of player development. They are starting the process of marketing the next generation of superstars.
Here’s another way to view the Jenkins pick (which was done BEFORE the acquisition of several shooters), he was better in college than Ezeli and Taylor.
Chris Vivlamore
November 27th, 2012
5:50 pm
Samurai Squirrel: Not weird questions. I will answer the best I can because I’m only allowed to watch the last half hour of practices and about the last 10 minutes of game-day shoot-arounds. In reality, most of what I get to see are the players shooting free throws. Sometimes I can watch the team walk through offensive sets and plays. Sometimes, on the road, I can watch the whole shoot-around, but that is really just a walk-through of offensive and defensive sets.
The players are divided into first and second teams by jersey. That’s mostly how I get an idea of who is going to start. They walk through drills as units, first the first team and then the second and third. All the players are there well before practice starts. Some, like Kyle Korver and Anthony Morrow, do extra shooting before practice. Others, like Devin Harris, do extra shooting after practice. The daily 3-point shooting contest between Jeff Teague, Lou Williams and DeShawn Stevenson occurs after practice and the banter can be amusing.
After practice sometimes the second team players will play a half-court game.
Practices usually start at 11 a.m. I know they scrimmage because I can hear them through the closed door of the practice court. I did get to see scrimmages during training camp.
I interview Drew while the team is shooting free throws. I will talk to the players, as I request, as they finish up and head to the locker room. We used to be able to go into the locker room post practice but that policy has changed.
Drew and Lester Connor are the most vocal coaches. All the veteran players are pretty vocal when it comes to helping others understand the plays.
Hope that helps.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 27th, 2012
5:56 pm
“So, lemme get this straight: ESPN would rather show Hornets vs. Cavs in prime time over Hawks vs. Heat. ”
Hornets-Cavs pits the last two #1 overall picks against each other. The Hawks-Nuggets game on ESPN, which originally would have showcased Irving’s Cavs, was dropped because Irving is currently not playing (and killing my fantasy team).
Najeh Davenpoop
November 27th, 2012
5:56 pm
^that should say the Cavs game was dropped in favor of the Hawks-Nuggets game.
Astro Joe
November 27th, 2012
5:57 pm
Keith, maybe, but there is also a chance that in 2-3 years, PJ3 is Greg Oden. An Injury List HOFer (if the reports about his knee are true).
Astro Joe
November 27th, 2012
5:59 pm
Ant Davis and Uncle Drew will likely sell more jerseys in the next 5 years than the entire current Hawks roster over the same timeframe.
Astro Joe
November 27th, 2012
6:01 pm
Of course, that is only true because Damion James was cut in the pre-season, otherwise, we would see so many jerseys with the name “James” on the back that our heads would be spinning.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 27th, 2012
6:01 pm
“In the Hawks’ five-game win streak, they have beaten teams with a combined record of 24-41 (going into Tuesday’s NBA schedule). Only the Clippers, at 8-6, are above .500.”
I wonder how many NBA teams have played a combined schedule worse than that in their last 5 games and haven’t gone 5-0.
A quick check tells me the Heat are 4-1 in their last 5 against teams that are 22-24 combined, the Spurs are 4-1 in their last 5 against teams that are 22-35 combined, and the Knicks are 2-3 in their last 5 against teams that are 25-32 combined. So it’s not like other good teams are taking advantage of less than stellar schedules to pull off extended winning streaks. Nobody is saying the Hawks are going to go undefeated the rest of the way, but having a 5 game winning streak is a hell of a lot better than not having one.
Astro Joe
November 27th, 2012
6:03 pm
Think about all of those Damion fans in Cleveland and Miami.
Astro Joe
November 27th, 2012
6:07 pm
Last season the Hawks won 1 of every 3 games against winning teams. In the VERY early season so far, they are winning 1 of 2. It is much too early to make conclusions, but there are some diagnostic signs that validate some encouragement (if you choose to enjoy the ride, which many seemingly do not).
beone
November 27th, 2012
6:19 pm
“Drew’s not exactly what you’d call a quick learner, is he?” Now that is an understatement!!!
keith
November 27th, 2012
6:21 pm
Chris Vivlamore
November 27th, 2012
5:50 pm
Who usually wins the daily 3 point shooting contest?
doc
November 27th, 2012
6:23 pm
a win is a win
they dont rank you at the end of the year on strength if schedule
nfl is worst for penalizing the best as a handicap and really depreciates the end product for competitiveness
at the end it is about wins and being in good health going into the playoffs based on a seeding from wins and conf rank
no reason to apologize
just win baby
Sameba
November 27th, 2012
6:24 pm
Much more interesting question for me is what is the shooting % of the winner…
Sameba
November 27th, 2012
6:25 pm
^of that 3-point shooting contest
hot.trod.87
November 27th, 2012
7:04 pm
Proud of my Hawks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Harpie
November 27th, 2012
7:20 pm
Has there ever before been a coach as stupid as Larry Drew? I don’t think so…
Najeh Davenpoop
November 27th, 2012
7:21 pm
The Hawks were 8-4 through 12 games last year too, and played just as many sh-tty teams in that span as they have this year, but they also had two double digit losses in that time span. They have one double digit loss this year, against a legit contender on the road.
glw
November 27th, 2012
7:39 pm
I am curious as to why Drew decided to give Tolliver minutes over Ivan in the first place? This team was obviously undersized and you didnt need minutes going to a stretch 4 over a guy who bring you inside toughness and rebounding. Tolliver role is simply play when Josh gets in foul trouble or if the other shooters cant get it going and you need an offensive spark and your hope is he can come in and give you a couple of 3’s. Other than that, he shouldnt see the floor.
Ken Strickland
November 27th, 2012
8:12 pm
LDrew is full of it. He acts like Ivan Johnson is a new unproven player, and he had no idea what to expect from him. He just won’t admit to putting 3pt shooting ability ahead of proven aggressiveness, rebounding, DEF, and inside scoring ability. The fact that he cut a proven rebounder and defender(DJames)and forced another to languish on the bench(IJohnson), in favor of a 3pt shooter(ATolliver) that self destructed proves my point.
If we can be as effective defensively as we’ve been using a number of players that are basically OFF oriented, imagine how much better we’d be defensively with a couple of additional rebounders that defend.
Buddy Grizzard
November 27th, 2012
8:15 pm
“Buddy I don’t know what game you are watching ,JT is the heart of the defensive effort.”
I watched the game where AJ Price got dribble penetration every trip down court.
Astro Joe
November 27th, 2012
8:37 pm
LD spending 8 games to figure out the back end of his rotation is akin to an NFL head coach using 1.5 games to figure out who should be his CB in dime coverage.
HawkFan
November 27th, 2012
8:44 pm
How could anyone watch Tolliver and Ivan play and pick Tolliver? When will the NBA hire a blogger to Coach a team.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 27th, 2012
8:51 pm
“The fact that he cut a proven rebounder and defender(DJames)and forced another to languish on the bench(IJohnson), in favor of a 3pt shooter(ATolliver) that self destructed proves my point.”
The irony of course is that Tolliver sucks at 3 point shooting just like he sucks at everything else.
Sameba
November 27th, 2012
9:03 pm
Why everyone thinks that it is solely LD who is responsible for picking & playing Tolliver??
Sameba
November 27th, 2012
9:39 pm
I guess, there is no such evidence. In fact, I am glad L.Drew has finally benched the guy who, according to the evidence I got, was not his pick…
Nate ArchiBALL
November 27th, 2012
9:48 pm
FTPB.- Looks like Tolliver has friends in high places
Sameba
November 27th, 2012
3:45 pm
MsDee & Ken S.:
You may want to read this:
“Monday, August 27 2012
Free-agent Anthony Tolliver said he’s intrigued by Atlanta, a team that has great interest in him. “I don’t think they have a guy on their roster with that skill set with shooting and versatility,’’ Tolliver said about being a big man who can step out on the floor. When Tolliver was with Cleveland several years ago, Hawks GM Danny Ferry was the GM there. Tolliver also said he has a “really good relationship’’ with Wes Wilcox, then with Cleveland and now Hawks assistant GM. Sulia
http://hoopshype.com/rumors/tag/anthony_tolliver?page=2
Ken Strickland
November 27th, 2012
9:51 pm
SAMEBA-What makes you think it was anyone elses decision but LDrew’s? There were roster decisions involving salary considerations that he had no choice in making, like JPetro and likely DStevenson. He definitely didn’t have any choice when it came to rookies JJenkins and MScott. But with ATolliver having the same min contract DJames and KBenson would have received, salary considerations definitely didn’t factor into his decisions.
You can bet Ferry didn’t expect LDrew to construct a roster with a rebounding and DEF void at SF. If he did, he wouldn’t have brought JAnderson or DJames, who were known for DEF and/or rebounding, into to camp to compete at SF.
Slimjr
November 27th, 2012
9:54 pm
I betcha Coach Grandad and Ken S. could coach this Hawks team to an ECF within two seasons for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unbelievable Larry cut Damion for this scrub Anthony..
And Benson too? !@#$%^&*()_+
Sameba
November 27th, 2012
9:56 pm
Nate ArchiBALL:
Thanks for reposting part of my previous comment from another blog. Actually, that evidence should be coupled with another one. As I remember, the same day (or may be the next day) the announcement came about Damion being cut, LD gave interview to our beat writer. He said “Damion deserved to be on the team” or something very similar, do not remember exactly. I consider this as indirect prove that he wanted Damion to be on the team…
Sameba
November 27th, 2012
10:04 pm
Ken S:
Here is all the evidence I got. Now I have to leave for a while. if there still is some doubt we can proceed later…
Ken Strickland
November 27th, 2012
10:07 pm
NATE ARCHIBALL-Ferry likely brought Tolliver into camp, just like he brought James and Benson, but it was Drews decision which of these players made the final roster.
glw
November 27th, 2012
10:19 pm
The Memphis Grizzlies assigned guard Tony Wroten to the Reno Bighorns, the team’s NBA Development League affiliate, Grizzlies General Manager and Vice President of Basketball Operations Chris Wallace announced today. Wroten (6-6, 208) has totaled one rebound and one steal in eight minutes through three appearances in his rookie season with Memphis. NBA.com
And to think a lot of people wanting him picked here. With 1st rd picks starting to be assigned to D-League, I wonder how long before the Hawks do the same with Jenkins and or Scott to get some playing time. With the Hawks seemingly in playoff contention, they will never see the floor except for blowouts.
Sameba
November 27th, 2012
10:48 pm
Ken Strickland:
…but it was Drews decision which of these players made the final roster.
———————————————————————————————————
What is such a conclusion based on? Why so sure that it is SOLELY Drews decision??
Grandad
November 27th, 2012
10:50 pm
Slimjr
That was a very nice thing to say.
G`Dad
Najeh Davenpoop
November 27th, 2012
10:57 pm
Ferry may or may not have been the driving force behind Tolliver being signed here, but LD was sitting courtside for an entire season of Ivan last year while Ferry was not, and was in better position to assess Ivan’s obviously superior game. I think it’s safe to say that if anything Ivan should have been given a chance to lose his spot in the rotation to Tolliver, not the other way around. Ivan’s play last year earned him more than DNP-CDs to start this season.
Anyway, LD got it right eventually, so it’s all good.
Slimjr
November 27th, 2012
10:57 pm
keith
November 27th, 2012
5:33 pm
“Perry Jones III was available when the Hawks made their pick. PJ III is a modern day Robert Horry, Rashard Lewis, hybrid. He can flat out ball. 2-3 years from now, we will be sorry”
I believe he’s more skilled than those guys.He’s like a 6′11″ two or three..Just crazy..
BTW, 27 Gm’s passed him up…WoW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezBEacGh0gA&feature=related
Sameba
November 27th, 2012
11:07 pm
Najeh Davenpoop:
What you say is of course makes sense. But let’s consider this: if DF was the driving force, then Drew could not go against him. So he played Tolliver until that guy got self-destructed (as Ken S. correctly noticed).
And I completely agree with your words: “Anyway, LD got it right eventually, so it’s all good.”
Nate ArchiBALL
November 27th, 2012
11:16 pm
KS – In all probability, the Hawks roster was already set and no matter how well James and Benson played during camp (and they did play pretty good) they were not going to make the squad. No way DF was going to put together a team with Benson (3 NBA games), James (32 NBA games), Jenkins (R) and Scott (R) on the roster.
Slimjr
November 27th, 2012
11:35 pm
Hey my pleasure G’Dad. I look forward to your input.I always come away saying: Hmmmmm
Melvin
November 28th, 2012
12:52 am
I would have rather signed Anthony Randolph over Anthony Tolliver. Heck, I’m guessing Randolph wish he would have signed with the Hawks as well. He played in only 2 of the 15 games this season (13 DNP-CD).
vava74
November 28th, 2012
7:19 am
Sameba:
“…, LD gave interview to our beat writer. He said “Damion deserved to be on the team” or something very similar, do not remember exactly. I consider this as indirect prove that he wanted Damion to be on the team…”
NOPE: this type of commentary by LD is actually very typical of his used car salesman type of speech.
You cannot rely ON ANYTHING which LD says since he ALWAYS contradicts action with words.
He has done it dozens of time. Always (virtually) says the right things and does the opposite.
drmaryb .(""_ ^).
November 28th, 2012
7:24 am
PUT UP OR SHUT UP!
glw Says: November 27th, 2012 at 7:39 pm
I am curious as to why Drew decided to give Tolliver minutes over Ivan in the first place? This team was obviously undersized and you didnt need minutes going to a stretch 4 over a guy who bring you inside toughness and rebounding. Tolliver role is simply play when Josh gets in foul trouble or if the other shooters cant get it going and you need an offensive spark and your hope is he can come in and give you a couple of 3’s. Other than that, he shouldnt see the floor
____________________
To add to others fine points of views re: this Tolliver SPOOF … GM - FERRY, wanted this guy over James & Drew showcased this scrub all the way to the end of the bench. We clearly don’t need this empty suit to anchor this bench. Waive this guy & give James a call!!!
terrell
November 28th, 2012
7:53 am
Why in the world would you play Tolliver over Ivan to begin with? Toughnes? Energy? Ivan brought all of that shizz last year. Wtf LD talking about? Tolliver shouldnt even be on the team. Clown.
terrell
November 28th, 2012
8:08 am
So a team that consists of Kobe, Dwight, and Gasol loses at home to the lowly Pacers. Wow! Who are they gonna fire next? lol
ECF or Bust
November 28th, 2012
8:10 am
Tolliver was some what of an unknown in how he would mesh with the team compared to Ivan. T was new to the team with a proven resume as a rotation guy.
Coach gave him his shot and if he had succeeded he would be playing more. That was a lot of pressure put on Tolliver and he didn’t come prepared.
Coach knew what to expect from Ivan and he is getting it and will continue to get it.
Now the team is back to normal and Tolliver can’t sit and cause ‘TMAC’ type distraction cause he didn’t get a ‘fair shot’.
Coach is smart, Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Tolliver will get another shot, it’s a long season. Hopefully he will be ready next time.
Go Hawks.
Samurai Squirrel
November 28th, 2012
8:33 am
James may have deserved to be on the team, but he isn’t and more than likely never will be (if we’re lucky). Might as well forget he was ever in training camp. Can we please just stop talking about him?
Heck, I am getting to the point where I want them to sign him just so he can suck and you guys will realize how idiotic you have been to KEEP talking about him!
Samurai Squirrel
November 28th, 2012
8:37 am
Thanks for answering my questions!
One final one: has Josh Smith been working with Al Horford on his free throw technique at practice? Horford certainly has gotten worse and had to pick it up from somewhere!
Slimjr The Idiot
November 28th, 2012
8:53 am
Hey let’s play Jeff Teague 48 mins every night and we’ll have 75 wins this season.
JROLL1
November 28th, 2012
8:58 am
Anthony Morrow still needs more PT! Every game AMo gets a dnp/cd…Larry has outcoached himself!!!!
Slimjr
November 28th, 2012
9:27 am
42-45mins for Teague should suffice on most nights.. Maybe less with large leads…
He’s got plenty of gas left in the tank for years to come..
Okay Genius. Have a great day!
tiger woo
November 28th, 2012
9:36 am
42 – 45 minutes per is too much for Teague – no need to wear him down when you have capable backups.
ECF or Bust
November 28th, 2012
10:03 am
also might have been a little of Coach reminding Ivan who the boss is..
ag
November 28th, 2012
10:05 am
ND, great point earlier, it is a lot of crappy teams. Hard to play a 5 game schedule with more than 2 contentenders. Playing Washington did skew it a little bit.
Ivan proved himself last year. In earlier stories, LD admitted going to California to visit Ivan. He was also quoted as coming into camp in the best shape of all players. Yet, he earned DNP’s.
Also, let us not forget JT0 averages fewer minutes than all Hawks regular staters. He receives extended minutes only with DH is hurt. The only thing LD should see is playing fewer players actually helps the team. JT0 needs to play 35-40 minutes per game.
Just Joe
November 28th, 2012
10:10 am
LD’s comment regarding “James should have made the team” refers to the 15th roster spot in my opinion. In LD’s mind, it was Ferry’s preference to keep a spot open that cost James a contract, not the fact that Tolliver was chosen over James.
ag
November 28th, 2012
10:22 am
The more I am reading, the evidence may show LD’s hands were tied when coming to Tolliver. Nobody could understand it. Again, Benson gets dumps after scoring 10 points, why? Okay 10 points in a preseason game is not like winning the MVP in the championship, but he had a good game. Also, he had a very good Summer Camp. Yet, DF gave Scott a contract.. not sure why considering, Josh, AL, Ivan and Tolliver playing the same position.
MsDee
November 28th, 2012
10:25 am
Sam aka Samurai Squirrel
“James may have deserved to be on the team, but he isn’t and more than likely never will be (if we’re lucky). Might as well forget he was ever in training camp. Can we please just stop talking about him?
Heck, I am getting to the point where I want them to sign him just so he can suck and you guys will realize how idiotic you have been to KEEP talking about him!”
Dang Squirrel, what did Damion James do to u? Did he still one of your nuts?? U seem to have pretty good b-ball sense but seem to lack it when he comes to a guy like James who FLAT OUT deserved to be playing with the Hawks right about now!! The purpose of trainging camp is to display your abilities in front of the coaching staff in order to make the team. Well, Damion DID just that but got the boot! How can u NOT understand that unless, like I said, Damion stole something from ya..u may want to keep your nuts on a leash next time.
MsDee
November 28th, 2012
10:27 am
Wow, Lakers losing YET again..Might be seeing Dwight in a Hawks uni next season after all!!
MsDee
November 28th, 2012
10:36 am
Lakers has NO BENCH WHAT SO EVER!! Jamison hasn’t been the same since leaving Washington, J Meeks hasnt been the same since leaving Philly, Chris Duhon sucks, Darius Morris who?? Who is that???? And cant count on Kobe putting up numbers like that always..Nash definitely wont be the same being old and now injuried..yep, we may be RIGHT back in the Dwight Howard sweepstakes come next off season since Bynum is good as DONE. Feel kinda bad for Philly….well, maybe NOT!!
Samurai Squirrel
November 28th, 2012
10:44 am
James never did anything to me. I just hate reading the blog every day with people acting like he would be “the answer” for this team. Bringing James in isn’t like bringing in a star (which this team seriously needs if it ever wants to win big). If the Hawks signed him, I would hope he came out and lit the building on fire. I just don’t see that ever happening…
By the way, love that you always quote me as “Sam AKA Samurai Squirrel”.
MsDee
November 28th, 2012
10:46 am
If we continue to play like we have thus far with who we have now while the Lakers continue to have negative drama around them, Dwight would be coo coo NOT to join us. We will STILL have his best friend Josh on the team (since Josh WILL sign), Lou Williams and maybe Anthony Morrow (which I believe we keep since Dwight gave high props about him b4 in an article I read somewhere). While still keeping our 2time ALLSTAR Horford and wonderful backup center in Zaza. Our steady immurging PG Teague and knock em dead shooter in Korver with Ivan the MANEATER backing him up!! WOW, what a team we would have!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If Ferry could pull THAT off, oh yea, he would DEFINITELY be evecutive of the year while almost guaranteeing a championship here in the ATL!!!!!
Terrell
November 28th, 2012
10:48 am
Is it Drew or Ferry that can cut players? I believe that power belongs to Ferry and I think he kept Tolliver as a trading assest as compare to James. I bet Drew wanted to keep James as he stated earlier that James should’ve made the team. James would’ve only gotten a little over 300K compared to Tolliver’s 900K-1M. I wouldn’t be suprised if Tolliver along with Harris and possible Morrow are used in a trade.
MsDee
November 28th, 2012
10:49 am
Kool Sam aka Samurai Squirrel
Ray
November 28th, 2012
10:50 am
Did we not learn what happens when players log heavy minutes as the regular season goes on.
If Jeff Teague plays 30-35 per night and then say the 10th game he plays 40 mins that’s cool.
But to consistently play anywhere from above 35 to 42 mins will tax him it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
For crying out loud when Joe Johnson did that why do you think we called for his head. Because on any given night he’d be playing 35-44 mins.
ag
November 28th, 2012
10:51 am
I think James would bring you more than we would ever see in a box score. If James could give me 8 ppg, I would be happy. If he would grab 7 rebounds, again, I would be happy. He pretty much did that in the preseason. His size and hustle is what this team needs.
Stevenson is living off his rep. It is like going to a club and the 50 year old over weight bald guy talking about how many ladies he used to have. Just because he is still in the club, he is no longer pulling those young ladies. Stevenson could not start on NJ last year, why should he start with the Hawks?
Ray
November 28th, 2012
11:14 am
At least Stevenson gives us something Tolliver doesn’t give us a damn thing we see that actually Petro doesn’t give us anything except a useless body out there on the court.
Melvin
November 28th, 2012
11:26 am
MsDee,
If the Hawks sign Howard than I think they may trade Horford. Not b/c Horford is a bad player but his contract money could be spent in another area like upgrading the perimeter/wing players. I think Howard, Josh, ZaZa and Ivan if they all sign could man the paint.
tidog
November 28th, 2012
11:30 am
It’s easier to use coach DNP than to find minutes for the rookies Jenkins and Scott. LD is a farce and changes direction like the wind.
Samurai Squirrel
November 28th, 2012
11:37 am
Everyone always wants to put in the backup quarterback. We are winning. If we are losing, then we would have reason to complain. Why not just sit back and be happy that (surprisingly) we are one of the 4 or 5 best teams in the Eastern Conference? Having James, Benson, or Tolliver out there isn’t going to make a huge difference in how the season goes.
MsDee
November 28th, 2012
11:39 am
Melvin,
The only way I see Ferry trading Horford is if we can to get quality wing and or sf to replace him, other than that, I just dont see Horford going anywhere. We have the money to afford those guys cause remember, we wont have Dwight birds right which means we will be saving a year off his contract unless the Lakers do a sign-n-trade with us for Dwight. Like I stated earlier, the Lakers have noboby we would want so its safe to say Dwight would just be walking out on his own. The only way it would have be tough to keep Horford is if we would try and get CP3 and Howard together but since Teague is (to me) a tab bit better than CP3 right about now, then it makes no sense to try and get him now.
Rusty
November 28th, 2012
11:41 am
The big question regarding ivan was why didn’t LD play him against the celts in the playoffs when we definitely needed a tough guy who could rebound. I really get the feelingthat LD handed that series to them on a silver platter the way he coached.
Rusty
November 28th, 2012
11:45 am
Yea tiger woo the way you always said bad things about JT I know you would like to play him zero minutes.
alex
November 28th, 2012
11:45 am
rather than hawks sign Howard i see we losing josh for nothing signing for glamorous big market LA to play with best friend and i am concern that we don’t extend josh or don’t trade him yet just to get somebody if he prefers LA (heard he on LA radar).
Ken Strickland
November 28th, 2012
11:48 am
NATE ARCHIBALL-During the off season it was reported that LDrew flew to where Ivan was working out to observe his workouts and to talk him into resigning. You’d think that his previous season’s body of work, plus he obviously liked what he saw during his workouts, along with what he did during training camp and exhibition season, would be enough to get him off the bench the 1st part of the season.
I’m beginning to really dislike LDrew because of his habit of ASSUMING all Hawk fans are stupid. Why else would he pretend to be suprised at what IJohnson has done after he finally allowed him to una$$ the bench? And the only reason that happened is because Tolliver was so bad that he had not other choice. He’s now doing to Tolliver what he did to Ivan at the start of the season.
Also, the idea that DFerry wouldn’t have a roster with 2 rookies and 2 players with limited experience doesn’t hold water. Ferry knew this would be a rebuilding yr, and he openly stated his intention of wanting to establish a developmental program for rookies and less experienced players. Now tell me, how can he expect to develop rookies and less experienced players if they aren’t on the roster?
LDrew is the one who’s established his preference for veteran players over rookies and less experienced players. All you have to do is think back and remember how he totally ignored Teague in favor of 2 grossly underachieving vets Teague/Bibby. If not for the team trading Bibby and Hinrich’s injury, Drew would never have given Teague a chance to shine during that Bulls/Hawks playoff series.
Bottomline, it was Drew, not Ferry, that demonstrated his VETERAN PREFERENCE, while Ferry has started his preference for developing rookies and younger players. After all, didn’t Ferry state shortly after the draft that Jenkins and Scott would definitely make the roster?
We had 5 returning players already under contract, plus 2 rookies, and LWilliams, DHarris and KKorver assured of making the roster. With mgt’s unwillingness to eat Petro and Stevenson contracts, that left 5 players competing for 2 slots(Benson, James, Tolliver, Morrow, and Anderson).
ANDERSON-a total wash even though he was given ample opportunity to show what he could do.
BENSON-offered more size, potential, upside, rebounding and DEF ability than Tolliver or Morrow, but he couldn’t shoot 3’s. He had a very good summer league, training camp and preseason.
JAMES-offered size, hustle, and more potential, rebounding, DEF and passing ability than Tolliver or Morrow, but couldn’t shoot 3’s and wasn’t an OFF 1st type of player. He also had a good training camp and dominanted all other FAs as a rebounder, defender and passer during preseason.
LDrew didn’t have much of a choice when it came to who would get the 1st 12 roster spots. However, he certainly made the decision as to who would get the final 2 roster spots, and he chose experience and 3pt shooting ability over size, youth, potential, rebounding and DEF ability. James and Benson were the perfect candidates for DFerry’s desire to develop younger players. James actually played well enough to have earned the starting SF slot, if a more open minded, less biased and one dimensional HC was making the decisions.
Just Joe
November 28th, 2012
11:49 am
Signing Howard and retaining all, or most, of our own free agents would be tough to do.
2013/14 Salaries/Cap Holds:
Horford $12M
LouWill $5M+
Jenkins $1M+
Teague $8M+/-
Smith $15M+
ZaZa $7M+
Korver $7M+
Morrow $6M
Ivan $1M
That’s $62M in salaries/holds (assuming all other free agents are renounced & giving no consideration to 2013 1st rd pick(s)). You’ve got to cut loose over $24M in salaries to be able to offer Dwight $20M+ (or re-sign someone for considerably less than their cap hold). You could renounce everyone but Josh, Al, Jeff, Lou, and Jenkins (roughly $41M against cap), and you still wouldn’t have enough room to offer Dwight $20M.
Ferry is going to have to decide betwen building around Jeff/Josh/Al, or dumping one (possibly 2) of the 3. And then if you do say, dump Al, and sign Dwight, it will likely cost you all but one of ZaZa, Morrow, and Korver, since you’ll only have the MLE to offer.
There’s a lot of change coming between now and July 2013. A salary dump of Al Horford could happen. A sell off of expiring contracts like Morrow, Korver, and Harris is likely.
Samurai Squirrel
November 28th, 2012
12:17 pm
I like you guys, but you have waaay too much time to type up these super long diatribes. Now you’ve got me writing them!
Ken, who do we have on this team that is an actual scorer? Smith thinks he is, but he is more of a hustler who can pick up rebounds and dunk. Horford is a pounder of the rock with a decent stroke, but not much offensive skill otherwise. Williams is a volume shooter who will throw it up there crazily several times a game. Teague is more of a distributer/slasher at this point in his career. Korver cannot create his own shot and relies on screens and picks.
The reason Drew went with the experienced vets (Morrow and Tolliver) is because they offered more scoring potential. Simple as that. Our roster is full of hustlers, but not enough scoring. You can play defense and hustle all you want, but you still have to score a few points at some point in the game!
O'Brien
November 28th, 2012
12:24 pm
I wont get too much into strength of schedule, or it’s early blah blah blah. All I will say is I am happy the Hawks are playing well.
And I wonder where the Horford bashers are. He is leading the team in scoring and rebounding (16 and 9), and has played alot of minutes at PF (and I think Center is his best position).
Just Joe,
If the Hawks get Howard, they would let Zaza go. With D12 getting a max contract, they can’t afford to pay his backup $5-$7 mil. And I think they would also trade Horford.
O'Brien
November 28th, 2012
12:28 pm
Just Joe,
Also, I think they are grooming Jenkins to fill Morrow’s role, so they would let Morrow go (although he is good friends with Josh), and try and resign Korver (imo).
hot.trod.87
November 28th, 2012
12:32 pm
Bring Dwight in and Hawks will be able to get a lot of vet minimum guys who want to win now.. We have cap space to sign 2 max contracts with a Bi-Annual Exception $1.957 million & TPE $1.375 million (Willie Green). 2013: Owed first-rounder (top-14 protected through 2016, converts to a second-rounder with cash in 2017) from Houston Rockets (Joe Johnson, Sasha Vujacic). 2013 – Owed second-rounder (top-40 protected through 2015, unprotected in 2016) from Houston Rockets (David Andersen)…. Hawks have bird rights to Josh, Devin, Zaza, Anthony, Kyle, & Johan next year
tiger woo
November 28th, 2012
12:34 pm
Rusty – I didn’t ay anything bad about J Teague – C’mon, he deserves at least 5 minutes!
tiger woo
November 28th, 2012
12:37 pm
Dwight Howard is over-rated. Shouldn’t the Lakers be dominating now with him and Kobe? ok – I’ll give them a little more time to put it together, but not much more time!
MsDee
November 28th, 2012
12:56 pm
Just Joe
Morrow and Korver are both free agents next season. If we can bring in Howard, those guys wont be asking for much to stay. And Josh would PROBABLY be reasonable with what Ferry would offer him if we get the opportunity to bring in Howard esp if Josh continue to play like he has so far which is NOT TO HIS USUAL SELF. I cant see Josh asking for TOO much with the numbers and FG% averages he is putting up as of now.
cp
November 28th, 2012
1:02 pm
@Rusty its not tiger woo who is always criticizing Teague, its tyger.
Ken Strickland
November 28th, 2012
1:16 pm
JUST JOE-While I wouldn’t complain one bit if we signed DHoward, I don’t think signing him is the automatic answer to us winning a title. Since leading the Magic to the finals, he’s been unable to lead his teams any further than the Hawks have gone. In fact, they got progressively worse each season.
The Lakers have struggled with him at C and have only gone above 500 once, at 6-5. His supporting cast of Gasol, Bryant, Sessions, and MWP aint bad at all. If he’s truly the type of player than can carry a team on his back(no pun intended), he certainly has all of the support he needs to get the job done. So far this season, he’s failed to prove he’s capable of doing a better job of carrying this team than Bynum.
Ken Strickland
November 28th, 2012
1:18 pm
JUST JOE-While I wouldn’t complain one bit if we signed DHoward, I don’t think signing him is the automatic answer to us winning a title. Since leading the Magic to the finals, he’s been unable to lead his teams any further than the Hawks have gone. In fact, they got progressively worse each season.
The Lakers have struggled with him at C and have only gone above 500 once, at 6-5. His supporting cast of Gasol, Bryant, Sessions, and MWP aint bad at all. If he’s truly the type of player than can carry a team on his back(no pun intended), he certainly has all of the support he needs to get the job done. So far this season, he’s failed to prove capable of doing a better job of carrying this team than Bynum.
hot.trod.87
November 28th, 2012
1:32 pm
Ken Strickland, I’d disagree with you. When he went to the finals, he had Rafer Alston, Michael Pietrus, Jameer Nelson, Turk, JJ Reddick, & Gortat ( who was a great backup to Dwight). In the playoffs, the Magic beat the Philadelphia 76ers in the first round of the playoffs and then the defending champions, the Boston Celtics, in the Eastern Conference semifinals. In their first conference finals since 1996, the Magic beat the Cleveland Cavaliers, which were led by the season’s MVP, LeBron James. they eventually lost to the Lakers in the Finals. That same year Jameer Nelson had a shoulder injury.
After that year, they traded Alston, Courtney Lee ( developing ) and Turk.. Picked up Rashard Lewis, Vince Cater jason Richardson, Earl Clark, Duhon, Richardson, Barnes, & Bass. Lost alot of defense for offense which hurt him as he had noone to back him up. Gortat > Anderson. That’s why his back gave out on him
Sameba
November 28th, 2012
1:43 pm
I cannot get rid of a very bad feeling that signing Howard (for max contract) might destroy our Hawks. In my opinion, having elite point guard AND a wing is much more important for a basketball team to succeed.
Samurai Squirrel
November 28th, 2012
2:15 pm
I would love to have Howard for the exposure he would bring to the Atlanta Hawks, but otherwise I could live without him. He is a grown-up kid like Josh Smith. Who needs TWO babies on the roster whining b/c they didn’t get a call from the ref? I don’t think he is gonna leave LA anyway.
hot.trod.87
November 28th, 2012
2:32 pm
Sameba & Samurai= trolls………He’s coming
Buzz Wire- November 28th, 2012 | Beyond The Buzzer | Your #1 Off The Court Source
November 28th, 2012
2:37 pm
[...] The notable changes have been an increased playing time for the starting unit, more minutes for Ivan Johnson and Anthony Morrow and a decrease in time for Anthony Tolliver. -Atlanta Journal Constitution [...]