Atlanta Hawks: Warriors 92, Hawks 88

Ninja behind Bob and Nique with the heavy Oakland accent:

“IS THAT HOW YOU FEEL LOU”
“PICK YA SWAGGER UP, YALL HAVE SWAGGER LIKE A LOSING TEAM”
“STEPH YOU SUCK, BARNES IS THE HOTTEST THING RIGHT NOW”
something-something “ATL SHAWTY”

Paraphrasing Bob – “this guy was been yapping the entire game, my god give it a rest”

Too funny.

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We waited and waited for the Josh/Al/Joe/Marvin “core” to take us to that next level as an elite Eastern Conf team. Many Hawks fans fed themselves lies and exaggerations to make them feel better about the chance actually happening, even after it was apparent for a 2 years or so that it just wasnt going to happen

Now we have to go through the post-Joe era listening to all the crap about how this is Josh and Al’s time to take over and dominate. Our 2 All Star front court guys leading the new look hawks!!!

Yeah. with Al’s soft, timid play and Josh’s wild, uncontrollable “I’m going to beat guys off the dribble doing crossovers and taking long jump shots” style. Get out of here. It’s not going to work, blow it ALL up.

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Jeff Teague has 2 play 30 plus mins a game and Ivan Johnson needs 2 be in our regular rotation

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Mookie,

The core was good. Very good, IMO, however, very poorly coached.

Woody did a very good job in the regular season, but his inability to delegate X’s and O’s – relying exclusively on ISO plays with flawed players executing those ISO plays (JJ is a very good player but not ISO-reliable against playoff defenses and Jamal is ON-OFF offensively and a liability on D) – and his inability to develop talent and gamble a bit with rookies, was exposed in the playoffs.

Then, we went with this sorry excuse of an HC which, although able to competently draw offensive plays and possessing a decent X’s and O’s knowledge, has no clue on how to set rotations, reward hustle, discipline the roster, make in game and between games adjustments.

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[...] Atlanta Hawks: Warriors 92, Hawks 88Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)Remember all the ?hawks are on the verge of becoming one of the Elite teams? talk? It never happened. What was some of the overrated drivel? ?This is a top 5 young core in the NBA?we just need a deeper bench/PG/scorer off the bencj? ?Joe Johsnon is a …and more » [...]

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@ Mookie

One of the biggest issues now, is that when the “core” had value, we didn’t try to move them for better players or multiple draft picks. We re-signed EVERYBODY from JJ down to Zaza and Marvin. We even re-signed Bibby.

Re-signing the top guys didn’t hurt us more than re-signing all of those fringe guys. Then add the fact that we didn’t develop ANY draft pick after Horford, or we simply traded the pick away for a “past his prime” vet.

People celebrate the JJ trade. But when the only thing you get is “cap space” for a player of that caliber, and nothing of substance, the move will end up being anti-climactic at best.

The top stars in the league aren’t coming to a team that is in full rebuild or deconstruction. So that “cap space” is only going to buy us marginal or unwanted players. They won’t be garbage type players. But they also won’t be franchise caliber players either.

Hopefully Smith doesn’t continue to play like this. Because if he does, he’ll decrease his trade value significantly. And my fear is if the Hawks continue to be this 2007 like team that is up and down like a roller coaster, the fans will turn on Smith. And that will prompt Smith to not even want to come back. At that point, we’re going to lose him for little or nothing.

So that would be 2 “core” members that we basically lost for nothing. Even the Marvin for Harris deal is looking like a wash now, which is incredible.

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Well we play Sacramento Friday. I will watch the game and by the end of the 2nd quarter will gear up for another disappointing loss. I think LD will be gone soon, someone needs to get a handle on the “Smoove”, he hasn’t shot near 40% since the season started in any game and he’s the so-called SUPERSTAR. Al may play soft as many suggest but a decent coach could change that.
The rookies need playing time, the team will perform better for it and some of the starters may need a lil pine time. Ivan hustles and plays a true asset.
I can deal with the HAWKS losing in a productive way as in develop the young talent and dump the foolishness. Ferry will make the right calls, it’s all about evaluation at the moment, we just need to tuff it out and accept that this season is over and prepare for a brighter future. By the way if the HAWKS do win friday and the “Smoove” has an outstanding game don’t get caught up in buying “FOOLS Gold”.

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northcyde,

“Even the Marvin for Harris deal is looking like a wash now, which is incredible.”

Not in a million years. Marvin was too expensive for his production, so even if Harris continues to bomb and we cannot move him for other players or picks, we will have cap room to sign someone at Marvin’s level (not difficult) BUT for less than the 7/8 million he would still be earning next year.

So, there is a clear $$ saving and added flexibility. That deal WILL NEVER be a wash, even if Devin broke both legs later today getting off the bus.

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no big deal–with Horford, the hawks would have won this game easily.

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I’m not positive the Hawks would’ve won this game with Horford. The problem wasn’t the post. The main problem was the 4 Mike Bibby’s the Hawks had playing defense in the back court last night. There is NO reason that Teague shouldn’t be a shut down PG in this league with his speed and athleticism. If healthy, I would take Iman Shumpert over Teague every day of the week. Because I know Shumpert is going to come out and try to dominate every game. Teague isn’t better than Shumpert nor Avery Bradley to me. Yes, Teague had some steals in the first half, but those were from BAD PASSES and playing the passing lanes. Allen Iverson used to be in top 3 in steals every year, but was terrible on one on one defense. And it seems Teague is trying to follow in those foot steps. If Teague was a PEST for opposing offenses every night, he would NEVER have to worry about being benched at the end of the game. I can’t stand to see players with the talent not give the will it takes to make them great.

You have LD playing Josh out of position at SF, so that Josh is tired from chasing on the wing. And you have Al playing PF where he’s too slow to box out quicker forwards. And you have Teague not giving it his all on defense. Two of those issues are LD’s fault. But the Teague issue is TEAGUE’s responsibility to correct. Where is Royal Ivey when you need him?

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Hawks. Man, what’s left to write. Got my tickets for the season, will continue to support, but man com’mon. Our biggest move needs to be made with LD. Sund for Ferry was a huge upgrade. Now we need to upgrade to a no nonsense coach and the effect will trickle down. It will be a long season.

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Same old team…….mired in mediocrity.
The Hawks will finish slightly over .500.

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Per unusual, a lot of blame for different reason. Enough blame for Josh, Teague, LD and even AL (even though he did not play). I think basketball is played better when the guys know there roles. I can’t understand why my starting PG does not play in the 4th quarter. I don’t know of any Hawk who was not struggling from the field.

We have two big holes we need to feel. A defensive stopper at SF (sorry, it is not Stevenson), and a backup center.

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Never thought I’d hear the day when excuses were made for not beating Golden State, of all teams.

And they didn’t have Bogut either, and they still beat us.

And everybody is a major culprit, but Josh.

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Lou is a worse defender than Bibby and JC. We should try Ivan at the 3, at least once and see how it goes. The main problem yesterday was coaching, LD has to go, I really hope Ferry is watching the games and realizes that this team could do much better with a real coach (NOT Mike Brown). The few minutes Scott was in, I thought he did a great job on 1 on 1defense and blocking out. I see great potential for this kid…

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Please get rid of our zombie coach. PLEASE.

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“Even the Marvin for Harris deal is looking like a wash now, which is incredible.”

Devin Harris could take a sh-t on the court every game and that would still be a good trade solely because his contract is expiring. I understand (but strongly disagree with) the case that trading Joe for scraps is “anti-climactic”, since he is still a good player. Marvin is average on his best day. He is the kind of player you pick up on a one-year deal to add depth to your bench. The amount he was getting paid made any trade involving him a good one.

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Point of confusion:

What good is cap space if you are not going to (be able to) sign a superstar?

Barring some major trades, it looks like the Hawks will be able (at best) to pick up a couple marginal talents regardless of the cap situation.

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At a crucial year when you have cap space and free agents looking, you don’t want to have a coach who doesn’t know how to make adjustments in games. You’ll end up wasting cap space 7 player value. We’ve become a passing team where noone wants to shoot except the same people shooting. SO far it’s been Korver, Lou & Josh ( ones getting big minutes)… but Josh is not a shooter. Korver is a shooter. Lou is a shooter and he creates his own shots. Josh & Al have went away from creating their own shots, BUT they’ve both lost a tremendous amount of weight. Not sure if that’s a factor in their post play, but they don’t have any. Zaza is not having his best year. He’s getting 4 or 5 rebounds standing at 6′11.

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Najeh… Interior defense was on Zaza.. Josh manned the inside. Led in rebounds.. Ivan even had perimeter defense. Zaza was non-existent last night. Not Josh

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ND- I agree. A lot of blame. I think we can all agree, “Why is Tolliver wearing a Hawks uniform?” The most asinine comment today was why we didn’t sign T-Mac. T-Mac is so garbage, he is in China. NOBODY WOULD SIGN TMAC!!!

ZaZa is starting to play like a backup again. If we could settle on a SF, that will keep him on the bench. It is my understanding that Ivan in the D-League was a SF. Why is he playing PF and C in the NBA? Does Teague, Korver, Ivan, Smith and Horford give us the best chance to win?

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Oh well….

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one of those cant “get over the hump” or “make a run” games. never could impose our will on them. the willful guys were on the court but never got it going. 2 – 3 possession ball game throughout it seemed.

heh heh @ faux rod.

certainly havent been giving up the century nimbers folks expected, yet. playing defense for offensive only ld to stay in games?

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hot.trod: Lou didn’t do anything until the last minute when he got 3 consecutive 3-pointers. He’s really terrible on defense…Teague is being jerked around by LD again…LD needs to go

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Najeh, sorry but Steph wasn’t shooting well but he had over six assists at half time or hockey assists by driving by Teague and kicking out whn the defense rotates. Defense is deeper than what your opponent scores. It’s also what your opponent CREATES for their teammates. And Curry was doing a lot of creating for his teammates against Teague. I just don’t see fight in Teague. He doesn’t seem to have that drive to really want to win at all costs.

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And I’m not just speaking of Teague for just last night. I’m just speaking of the kind of attitude I would want my point guard to have.

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The impression I got was…..the game was winnable, but the Hawks wouldn’t be able to figure out how to do it. It was an attitude that became a reality and Horford’s absence gave the coach and the players the excuse they wanted. So problem one is: Lack of pride and all out drive to win and find solutions playing with what you have. As far as perimeter defense, I’ve read articles on the blog where everyone knows they will all have to help out because of poor individual matchups and now it’s like a new problem all of a sudden.

Josh Smith……I don’t think he’s cut out to be a leader on this team. Actually, I thought the coach was supposed to lead the team. If Josh is patrolling the squad and making adjustments, who is telling him to watch his shot selecion and below 50% free throw shooting and in general not very smart approach to the game? Josh still needs to be dealt with. Now, he actually is saying stuff that sounds right on the money, but there is a part of Josh that still hasn’t been dealt with. Does that sound weird? My take.

Every professional basketball player has to play defense, block out, rebound, run like the wind and give 100% all the time.

The last problem is…..the Hawks lost by four. We lost to Miami by 6. And people want to gut the whole team. Hey, if two or three more shots went down, we would have won this game. Maybe a more reasonable approach would be to learn to make decent adjustments to problems that arise, keep a winning attitude, have Josh police himself first of all, and if these problems keep cropping up, find a coach that won’t allow that to happen.

Lou can score 30, Josh can be an All-Star….he just plays like it after he’s not picked to be an All-Star. Teague can dribble and shoot. Ivan is showing his stuff. People seem to like Pachulia…..can he consistently get 15 bounds per night? Hold on to the ball? If not find somone who can.

Should have won that game.

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Even with a new GM we still ARE SHORT ON BIG DEPTH. WHY ARE WE ALWAYS SHORT ON BIGS? EVERY F1CK1NG SEASON. WE HAVE A MILLION TWO GUARDS YET NO BIGS

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Seems like Zaza and Al are out or injured at the same time.. That Zaza doesn’t play well with Horford out… Pretty sad, but he’s had some bad rebounding games. he’s lost a step in basketball since he started running his business in Atlanta……Then you have Petro who questions what his role is and let a small guard fly by him….

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Larry Drew is a cancer, and he’s killing the Hawks!!!

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Lol at Astro Joe comments.

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Jordan Rules meant Horford has no heart for the game like Jordan did. Did you ride the short bus in school?

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Props to Lou and Al for playing through the flu & Zaza for playing through a busted face & 5 stitches !!!!!

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Why do people keep citing big-depth as a problem? We have Josh, Al, Ivan, and Zaza as our big rotation. You then have Tolliver, Scott, and Petro as emergency guys. You only have 96 minutes per game to distribute to those two positions… under the right coach (*cough cough*) a team should be fine with that four-man rotation at the bigs.

Not only that, what exactly are people expecting from a 5th big? All of those guys y’all are clamoring for (Fesenko, Dampier, Curry) are all free agents because they are bad and no one wants them. If they would really make an impact on a team, they wouldn’t be FAs in a league where the rosters can go 15-deep.

Damion James should have been kept on the team. The team isn’t gunning for a title, so it shouldn’t really care about having an open spot on the roster.

Also, did Teague sleep with LD’s wife or something? He’s arguably been the team’s best player this season, and you sit him the entire fourth quarter? Are you trying to lose, LD?

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I understand when we question a player’s toughness. but when it comes to a stomach virus, you can either keep things from coming out or you can’t. Personally, watching a player run around with the runs would have not been compelling TV. Keep that ish in the hotel. Literally.

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Ra’mon,

I just don’t see fight in Teague. He doesn’t seem to have that drive to really want to win at all costs..

Dude is averaging 14 pts, 7 assists, 2 steals, and 3 rebs per game (in only 29 minutes), but that’s not enough for you, is it? A young second year starter at PG, who is on a team with a dominant personality like Josh, and who played for stubborn coaches in Woody and LD…but it’s all Teague’s fault, and he has no fight in him?

16 pts, 5 assists against OKC on the road doesn’t show any fight (including a dunk on KD)?
20 pts, 11 assists against Miami on 11/9 doesn’t show any fight?

I think Teague’s biggest problems are inconsistencies, and not taking charge. But I don’t think its “not having a drive to win at all costs”.

Let me guess. in your opinion, only Josh Smith and Zaza have the will to win at all costs?

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“heh heh @ faux rod.”

Glad you could tell. You know you are becoming a legend on this blog when people try to be you.

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Atlanta has a basketball team?

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The bottom line is that neither Josh nor Al are number one options. Neither guy should make over 10 mil per, and neither guy is all star material. they are both above average players, but they play the same position. If you keep Josh, you have to hire another coach with a strong personality to keep him in line. If you keep Horford, you don’t have to worry about the coach, but will will have to get another above average big who does not mind banging down low, and is an above average defender or the layup line will commence.

By the way coach Drew, in case you read this blog. Our starting lineup, if you insist Josh is going to play the 3 should be:

Teague
Korver/Morrow (ride the hot hand)
Josh
Ivan
Horford

Ivan can be used at PF or Center if Horford is scared to guard the center that night, and he is the only player on this roster who commands any kind of respect in the paint (besides Josh’s shot blocking ability). This lineup immediately helps your rebounding, makes you a tougher team, and Ivan can knock down that mid range jumper that you love you bigs to shoot all game. LOU WILLIAMS SHOULD NOT BE USED TO RUN THE POINT. ANTHONY TOLLIVER SHOULD NEVER BE THE FIRST GUY OFF YOUR BENCH. ANTHONY MORROW SHOULD NEVER GET A DNP. TEAGUE SHOULD NEVER BE ON THE BENCH THE WHOLE 4TH QUARTER. IVAN JOHNSON IS ALMOST AS GOOD AS AL AND JOSH, SO THERE IS NOT REASON THAT HE SHOULD NOT BE PLAYING HEAVY MINUTES.

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The scapegoat is gone….Josh is still a problem, the issue was always JJ made these players better, but because of depth and no other shooting or perimeter defense, they couldnt make him better. Had last years team not had all the injuries against Boston, they would have advanced, Ferry was brought in here to operate this team on the cheap. It will take years to get this team back to where it was last year.

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Overreaction to a bad game where we were short handed.

This group is a work in progress but in order to know what to do going forward (what to keep, what to trade) we need a QUALITY HEAD COACH.

It’s that simple.

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Let me preface this by saying I predicted a loss even at full strength and “put something”(hedge bet on LAC, good night) on GSW. I was pretty indifferent this game wanting GSW to win and wanting our guys to play well.

GSW has a nice bench. Jack and Landry are great bench players while D. Green is a good bench piece. RJ is over the hill but always a Hawk killer.

KK was outstanding the first half but went m.i.a. in 2nd half. Josh took some bad shots but his defense alone kept them in the game. He’s playing more under control instead of trying to do everything like the first few games.

Lastly, the Drew offense is flawed. The bigs are out on the perimeter looking for shooters. Shooters are running in circles like a merry go round and the big usually has to go through progressions on who to pass to.
They usually get stoned wall by the defender and end passing the ball back to Josh who has a choice to make with 5 or so seconds left. So you put the ball in the hands of a guy that’s already said he’s too enamored with the long range jump shot with time dwindling…

It’s the worst possible offense for a guy like Smoove. Al on the other hand can be successful because he can shoot. But if you ask him to post exclusively, he would get stoned walled.

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This loss goes on LD’s rotations.

We had too little offense on the court for most of the game. Stevenson is a black hole for offense. So when the lineup is Stevenson, Smoove, Zaza, Korver, Teague/Williams, only Smoove and Teague/Williams can create their own shot. So the offense was basically playing 2-5. LD needs to play Teague and Williams in the same lineup more often, and also look at using Morrow more.

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Josh SMith was 4-4 from free throws

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Sorry my mistake, must have just been Lou and Ivan, still was four points worth

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Thank you prison Mike…………

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@Prison Mike – At first I thought dude was funny but after 3 quarters I was feeling like Rathbun…”Man shut your mouth” Lol Cant be mad at dude though he paid good money for his seat so yell away ..
WTH was LD thinking in the 4th qtr…Teague super glued to the bench while Lou Williams just jacks up shot after shot. I didnt see him drive the ball once. Teague could have broke the Defense down and hit Morrow/Korver for open shots. I question LD’s decision making.

Why is Stevenson playing more than Morrow, Morrow is way more effective with the minutes he plays Stevenson is just a guy now at 32 he cant keep guys from scoring like he used to.

IVAN THE TERRIBLE………Ivan>>>Marvin

Harrison Barnes is what Marvin should have been……..

Im si glad we didnt sign Beindris -he sux

Is it me or is Korver and the under used Morrow giving us more production than the 20 million dollar man from last year……

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The flip flopping by some on here is hilarious. A few weeks ago its we should trade Teague and let Devin Harris start. Then when it became clear Teague is better than Harris its oh well we should trade Harris. Now its where is Royal Ivey? Lmao are you kidding me? Where are all these lock down defenders at the pg position? Teague had a rough shooting night but he aint even close to the reason they lost. How about the lack of rebounding, the bad shots, the terrible rotations. Lou was terrible all night until he hit those 3’s at the end. The offense was terrible with him running the point. We need a legit sf because Barnes was working Stevenson last night. Before last night Barnes had looked average as hell but he had a career night last night. Letting go of James was a mistake. Dude has no offense but he did two things well that we desperately need, rebound and defend..

Its time to move on from LD. Its painfully clear he hasn’t learned anything from his past two years. He is still trying to make a gunner into a pg and it aint working. His rotations suck and im sick of the minute distribution. And where the hell is the accountability for some of the players? Some guys are allowed to do as they please on the court with no repercussions. And what is our offensive identity other than take a jumper? Get this dude all the way out of here.

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Tyger- I have to agree w/h you I would much rather have Mcgrady over Stevenson. Mcgrady would be a better fit for what this team lacks. Peitrus/Mcgrady and Fresenko over that stiff Johan Petro….My god hes awful….d like to hear Danny boy xplain to us how petro is a better fit than Benson.
Ramon….Teague vs Bradley/Schumpert Seeing as how both of those guys are hurtI got with Teague but if they were all healthy I go….Bradley Teague and Schumpert .Bradley is a good player he gave us the bussiness last yr that yung man got game.

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Everything starts with the head of the snake. Teague is the head of the snake and his head got cut off from that point. 9 points, 4 assists, & 4 rebounds is not elite stat lines, but I’m sure with a better scheme they would be

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Teague

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the hawks are mediocre and will go out in round 1 of the playoffs–another bad season

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Rod,

In addition to your lineup, I also think they should have kept James to be the backup SF. All he does is rebound (he did it in college at the SF position, and he did it in the preseason). And rebounding is one of the areas we are struggling in.

Also, I think Josh is worth over $10 mil…with the right coach. He has the potential to give you 18 pts, 10 rebs, 4 assists, and 2 blocks consistently…if he plays to his strengths (imo). He is not a #1 option, but he could be a solid #2 guy (imo).

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sad to say i stayed up and watched this debacle last night. i’m so glad we have all of these defensive issues and that the offense isn’t the problem. WHAT??? defense seems to be doing ok–but our offense is terrible. same ole stuff–no set plays, every shot we take is contested, josh and his poor shot selection, not one offensive rebound, etc, etc, etc. it’s getting old–unfortunately i’m thinking that this is going to be how this team will play all year. jeckyl and hyde!!!!

go hawks–we need a coach!

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as a high school basketball coach the game last night was very hard to watch. i love the nba, i love the hawks but what both teams showed last night was pathetic basketball. neither team seemed in sync all night–and even in the portland win the other night our team looks very confused! i know we have a lot of new guys on this team. but at the end of the day it is basketball. you move the ball, set screens, find the open man, move without the ball and go to the glass. we had trouble doing all of those fundamental things. and is it me or are we the only team that doesn’t crash the offensive glass. i counted over 20 possession last night where no one even attempted to go after an offensive rebound…and if not for zsa zsa and ivan we wouldn’t have had any.

it’s been time for a coaching change for a long time–but we’ve changed some big time players now and you can tell the players aren’t the problem here…i hate to call for someone’s job but i don’t see any progression. maybe ferry is going to give ld a few more games but i don’t need to see another quarter of this offense.

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jgsbirds, I am NOT a fan of LD so don’t take this as me defending the guy. But the fact is that he is focused on transition defense at the expense of offensive rebounding. Woody, clearly, was the opposite. Woody wanted the players to atack the glass on every possession but it left the backcourt open to easy fast breaks by the opposition. LD has gone in the exact opposite way.

Of course, the irony is that with LD’s jump-shot happy offense, logic dictates that there will be more misses and therefore more offensive rebounding opportunities. It seems like he could designate 2-3 guys to race back to defend a fast break while 2-3 guys are responsible for banging the glass. Instead, he has almost taken an approach that says unless the offensive rebound falls in your lap, play transition defense.

As I have said ad nauseum, it is a team in transition. LD is gone next year and likely 8-9 players on the current roster. I suspect it will be a painfully average season. 2 wins followed by 2 losses. 3 of 4 for the good followed by 3 of 4 to the bad. A middling team.

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Drew has got to go. Why is it that we just refuse to develop any of our draft picks. Teague isn’t as polished as he should be yet, but he’s still clearly the best PG on this team…and he sits for the entire 4th quarter..again. How in the blue hell does anyone expect him to develop if he’s constantly trying to play while glancing over his shoulder looking for the hook. It’s pathetic, if we had developed JT from his rookie year we’d have a all-star PG right now. Meanwhile, Ferry works a miracle, gets rid of Joe. We draft a SG and he can’t get any minutes at all, but Stevenson plays the whole game?

If I were JT, I would be requesting a trade today. He needs to be somewhere where they will actually give him a chance to develop.

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Ferry may know exactly what he is doing..he will basically allow Drew to sink himself the remaining of his contract by his horrible rotations, and how he doesnt hold the right players accountable for their shots. Yes, Teague shot up a few airballs but u might as well call Josh’s shots airballs too cause they never goes in, just an automatic turnover. Drew wont play Morrow nor Ivan their deserving minutes and the team has basically giving up on him..its starting to look like the same treatment they gave Woodson b4 he wasnt offered an extension.

Ferry came in while Drew is in his last year of his contract, so he did all the other necessary things to put us in the right position for him to change the direction of this team come next season. Ferry will have his coach in mind, while having cap space to try and lure in some true superstars while also being in the position to draft big on draft night! Ferry is a very smart guy and knows exactly what he is doing for this team. He said his goal was to make Atlanta a place where a championship can be won and I believe that is exactly what he will be doing the next 2-4 years from now!!

Drew, your time soon will be up!! C-YA!!!!

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“Lou was subjected to the same crappy rotation and he made something of it getting 18 points in 25 minutes to Teague’s 9 points in 27 minutes”

9 of those points came on desperation heaves at the end of the game when his circus shots finally started going in. This is another example of how stats don’t tell the whole story. Teague is a better defender than Lou and makes the offense run better than Lou, regardless of how inconsistent he may be. Lou is better at hitting bad shots than Teague. So of course LD decides to go with the guy who will take bad shots and occasionally make them rather than the guy who makes the offense run better.

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Josh Smith 39% FG, 14% 3pt, and 36% FT.

Before LD started jerking Teague around with pt he was leading the hawks in scoring, steals, and assist playing 8 less minutes than smooth. 3pt% 50, Fg% 50, FT 90%. And for all yall saying he doesn’t play defense, go look at the caliber of pt guards he has played this year and they have not gone crazy. Teague is just being shafted by an ignorant coach and being under appreciated by fans.

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“Hey, we had a good team. But if we blow it up, we will have cap space.

Now, if we blow it up, we will take a step back. But that’s OK, because with all the cap space we will be able to quickly build the team back up to exactly where it was before we blew it up (if we are lucky).

Sounds like a plan!”

First of all, like Ferry has said, that team was only going to get worse as Joe got older.

Secondly, why do you assume they can only build the team back up to where they were before? The whole point is to build it to a better spot.

Maybe Ferry can bring the team to a better place than it was before, maybe he can’t. But we KNOW that the previous team wasn’t going to do any better than a first round exit. It’s worth the gamble to sacrifice a first-round team to see if they can improve in the long run. It’s not like they broke up a title contender.

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I believe the only chance this team has of rebuilding is through the draft, which makes it all the more important that Houston makes the playoffs. We need all the draft picks we can get. Of course, we will need a coach that actually tries to play and develop that talent as well.

Watching Tolliver play reminds me about how much I miss Damein Wilkins when he played for the Hawks. Wonder where he is at and if he would like a second tour with this team?

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“Hey, we had a good team. But if we blow it up, we will have cap space.

Now, if we blow it up, we will take a step back. But that’s OK, because with all the cap space we will be able to quickly build the team back up to exactly where it was before we blew it up (if we are lucky).

Sounds like a plan!”

First of all, like Ferry has said, that team was only going to get worse as Joe got older.

Secondly, why do you assume they can only build the team back up to where they were before? The whole point is to build it to a better spot.

Maybe Ferry can bring the team to a better place than it was before, maybe he can’t. But we KNOW that the previous team wasn’t going to do any better than a first round exit. It’s worth the gamble to sacrifice a first-round team to see if they can improve in the long run. It’s not like they broke up a title contender.

Cosign 100%. Ferry’s next agenda should be getting a better coach in here. Sorry but LD is was not the answer when Woody was fired and still isn’t now.

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O’b, with Josh what I’ve seen thus far is a player playing injured in most games and sick in one game. Josh has played injured despite being in a contract season, where it would be more beneficial to him to sit out until he was as close to 100% as possible. I’ve also seen Josh asked to play the SF position, which I always have felt was a mistake. So, until this point of the season, I’ve seen Josh shoot horribly but find other ways to contribute even when not shooting that well. Last season, Josh made his way up to 70% from the line. So the first few games, I took it as Josh was seriously hurt when he couldn’t buy a free throw. I really don’t mind the in rhythm jumpers Josh take to start some games. What I dislike are the jumpers he takes when he steps back and shoot. However, that is a shot that I don’t even like Lebron or Rudy Gay taking, yet they take them as well. Personally, I see Josh as an ultimate team player. Because he comes across as the type of player who would play at 50% knowing that it will hurt his stats, rather then sit out like a lot of NBA players. And you rarely ever see Josh try to shoot over a double team. Majority of the time he makes the right pass at the right time when doubled. The jumpers that he takes are never contested. And with the regularity that he makes those set up jumpers (or set shots) with in practice, I can see why its hard for him not to take them period.

For Teague, I am not concerned about his offense. My judging him isn’t in regards to what he does on the offensive end. I have the issue with him on defense. To be as quick and fast (yes those are two totally different things) as he is, and as deceptively strong as he is, he should be a top 5 defensive point guard. Any coach will tell you when a player has the physical ability to be a superior defensive player, the only thing that can stop him is the will and desire. Offensive shooting efficiency is the one thing that will be the least consistent of any NBA player. But defense, rebounding, and ball movement are the main things that are consistent night in and night out. And until Teague is a top 5 defensive player at his position, I won’t be satisfied. And as I said, I don’t look at steals, nor blocks, to determine how effective a player is on guarding their guy.

Also, the reason I said Shumpert over Teague for me, is because I know what he’s going to give me on the defensive end every single night. And he’s going to make the opposing point guard work hard for every point they get. The great teams take pride in shutting down other teams. And if Teague is the longest tenure in the back court, he needs to be the one to establish that identity for anyone coming on the team.

And to the question, who on the team do I think will do whatever it takes to win, I would say I believe its Josh, Zaza, Korver, Al, and Ivan.

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LD’s days are numbered. Ferry won’t fire him (unless he does really bad), he’ll just go in a different direction once his contract is up.

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Ra’mon, yes. Ferry absolutely can replace LD if he lands a 4-6 seed. Had the Hawks hired a clear upgrae to Woody, Van Gundy wouldn’t be able to say anything. if Ferry dumps LD for Sam cassell (to pull an obscure name out of a hat), then there could be some ridicule from the media, but if Ferry makes decisions based on getting accolades from the media, fans or “basketball pundits”, then we have a much, much bigger problem.

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HawkEye,

“I believe the only chance this team has of rebuilding is through the draft, which makes it all the more important that Houston makes the playoffs. ”

How will that help us by Houston making the playoffs? Would the better a team be, the worst the draft picks become?

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“LD’s days are numbered. Ferry won’t fire him (unless he does really bad), he’ll just go in a different direction once his contract is up.”

I do think this is what’s going to happen, but who knows. If Ferry wants to see what all he has this season he better get rid of Drew. If he doesn’t Ferry will probably get rid of a good piece for nothing, just as a filler in a trade.

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MsDee,

Houston’s draft pick is lottery protected, which means if they make the playoffs, the Hawks won’t get the pick next draft.

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Ra’mon,

“With Josh what I’ve seen thus far is a player playing injured in most games and sick in one game. Josh has played injured despite being in a contract season, where it would be more beneficial to him to sit out until he was as close to 100% as possible.”

Well, I sure WISH HE WOULD SIT OUT ALREADY! His numbers were already bad b4 his illness/injuries. Its only gotten worst now that he is STILL playing sick!! And yall need not look at it like Josh is sacrificing anything cause guess what? JOSH JUST LOVES THE GAME OF BASKETBALL!! Its no difference than my 3 yr old daughter STILL wanting a piece of candy WHILE having a toothache! Josh is like a big kid who loves to be playing than to be sitting up in bed, even though he should be in bed instead of spreading it around to hit my boy Horford. Horford was smart to stay in his hotel room and make sure the germs dont spread to his teammates so that EVERYONE would be ready and healthy to play!! Horford is not only smart on the court, but off the court as well..GET WELL SOON, “BOSS”!!

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PETRO ONLY PLAYED LAST NIGHT BECAUSE SUND DRAFTED HIM AND SUND IS AN ADVISOR TO DF

FIRE LD
FIRE WOODY
FIRE SUND

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Ms Dee Chill with the comparison of Josh to your child.. There is a difference between playing basketball and playing in the NBA.. Not many players make it on that level. Again, how smart is boss when he gets’s bounced in the paint on defense. To ridicule Josh’s offense and make light o Al’s defense is laughable. Remember he wasn’t the only one out. Missing Devin hurt just as much and the load on Teague was heavier with Stevenson

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Andrew Bynum lookin’ like a ghetto version of “Moe” from “The Three Stooges.”

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Sorry hot.trod.87,

But if the shoe fits..Actually Josh pouts more than my 3 yr old..The day he SHUTS UP with the refs and quit taking those dumb jumpers that his butt misses 3-5 times IN A ROW and just play freakin ball, is the day I will not compare Josh to not only my 3 yr old, but to a baby!!

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Well hot.trod.87,

You right, Horford could do better in his defense and Josh can do better with his offense..but what does THAT have to do with Josh being a baby???

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I miss Woddy I thought he was a really good coach and if he would have been able to return last year we would have been a lot better. Defense wins championships. Last night well the Hawks are still trying to gel. Tolliver is not what they thought he would be. Ivan needs to play, his energy and toughness changed the game last night.I thought Ivan gets a bad rap on charging calls cause he is labeld as a bad attitude, so he isnt getting the calls. Flash from Ca. was right on the game with his calls, that was our game last night. Play the rookies…. Petro sux… Korver is playing too much and getting wore down+ he is the only one moving without the ball.

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Scored 88 points on the freaking Warriors

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23 and counting; give or take.
However:
30 was not a hard # … as with any algorithm;
there is a (+/-) between 2 and or 7.

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I thought for several years Marvin may have a breakout year, and then especially with the back operation, but it wasn’t meant to be. Smoove will never change his ways and will always be immature and petulant

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As for Ferry and letting LD go, we have seen it where GM’s like to bring in their guy, who shares their vision for the team. DF may want to scrap this motion offense that LD preaches (which doesnt work), and bring in a different coach.

Also, Which big FA would sign with the Hawks to play for LD?

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I fear we have waited tooo long `fore tradin` Josh.
*reasoning:
SteveKyler … Hoops World … tweets;
” Larry Drew has ZERO control over Josh smith ”

That in itself does not diminish Josh`s trade value;
but, Josh`s season [so far] is not `all that ‘ ..
Josh for whatever reason is losing mkt value as well.

My overall point – LD will be gone sooner than later.
-&-
Josh will be traded – before the deadline.
___________________________________________

Continuing my assessment of our team:
1. We have a very deep and versatile team.
2. We only need two pieces:
* a long rangy defensive minded Big who rebounds
* an all-star caliber wing [3]
notes:
* moving Josh may or may not accomplish one of the two above needs
* our needs are not small;
we only have pieces & parts, our needs though only two in my estimation,
are central to being good for any team.
`tis debatable whether are not our pg is a Champion;
what is not debatable – an Legit All-Star and a True Center.
_____________________________________________

When our Hawks play it`s as if an old woman
is driving her car with the brakes on.
*(nothing against old women – I sleep with one nightly)
Two reasons:

1. As long as stubborn Josh is on our team;
” we will have a hitch in our giddy-up ”
he just destroys smoothness of operation.
[J-Smoove ... what an oxymoron]

2. LD is the other
He does not expect nor demand excellence.
* nuff ‘ said on that.
____________________________________________

0`B
*motion offense is not the culprit.
** see above (does not demand perfection in practice or games)
*** also our team is running much more pick and rolls
plus set plays this yr, DFerry influence.

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Slim the jr and Rod f C P

My previous post was not in any way an attack on Josh.
Read carefully.

I am arrogant enough to think;
If I were coaching Josh – he would be different.

I`m certain 29 NBA coaches have had the same thought,
along with several unemployed NBA coaches.

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IMO, Josh will be wearing a Hawks uniform at the end of this season and again next November when the 2013-14 season starts.

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Would anyone here want SVG as head coach?

Mr. Ferry,
Please DONT hire an assistant. Hire someone with CREDIBILITY

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^replying to someone who said that while asking him about LD’s status

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Watching celts/nets.

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Speaking of Nets, JJ is averaging 15.5 pts, 3.5 assists, 3.2 rebs, in 37mpg.

northcyde,

Is that what $20 mil annually buys you?

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Would prefer a Center in any proposed deal for Smith, but two all-star caliber wings that should interest Ferry in Batum in Portland and George in Indiana.

Both long, lengthy, play awesome D on 1-4, and can stretch the defense out with their 3 pt shooting abilities. Both young and promising Batum 23, and George 22. Also both have shown they can play within a system.

Portland deal would look something like Josh for Batum and (pick?).

Indiana deal would look like Josh + filler for West and George.

Just some options Ferry should consider.

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keith prob right there. he would or at least the reformed one if he is. we needed to take a chance this year and give him a ride as the number 4 big and not even look anthony’s way as damien could have taken that space and been applied at the 3.

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Maybe there is something to that rumored trade of Josh to the Lakers for Pau Gasol. Josh Smith and Devin for Gasol is well worth the risk. Pau has 3-4 productive years left.

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Josh Smith is not worthy of a max deal imo. Closer to an 8-9 mil/per player at best.

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And for that reason alone one should never deal with the Lakers…

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Ball-so-Hard, did what???????????????????????

Incredible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Raymond Felton goes for 25 and 7 dimes..He’s good..#5 Lottery Pick behind it was a brutal pick[#2] in 2004…

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Najeh

Thanks for correcting my oversight.

The fact remains, Uncle Larry cannot Coach Josh.

I`ve never liked the terms handle or control even though
I fully understand their meaning.
Going with the simple term “coach” …
and the complexity of the task;
handling and controlling:
would fall under the purview of; teaching, motivation and discipline,
none of which Uncle Larry has had success in reaching Josh.
*(nor did Wdsn p r e v i o u s l y)

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none of which has Uncle Larry had success in reaching Josh.

-somewhat better syntax-

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Has any coach Ever put Josh on the bench.

I`m not talking about for 5 min or for a qtr
but two or three games, as am attn getter.
Then, if that did not stick, up the ante.

No, `cause weak coaches love their paycheck,
more than doing a quality job;
which in itself is a self fulfilling prophesy of failure.

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Jae Evolution

I like Paul George as well

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“trade Gasol to Houston for Omer Asik, Terrance Jones…”

Are you high?

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O’Brien

November 15th, 2012
9:24 pm

Speaking of Nets, JJ is averaging 15.5 pts, 3.5 assists, 3.2 rebs, in 37mpg.

northcyde,

Is that what $20 mil annually buys you?

***********************

No.

But that 20 million is much easier to swallow, when he comes through in the clutch in the 4th quarter.

9 points in the quarter . . and hit back to back clutch jumpers to give the Nets a 4 point cushion. A cushion they would hang onto to win the game.

Having the ability to close out games and make very difficult shots in the process = 20 million?

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Ms.Dee there is a difference between babying and wanting someone who will play his heart out. I notice that they play kinda slow even tho Larry got the players he has ( smaller players) for the purpose of playing faster. That the deadly quickness Teague possess him better and deadlier than West brook, BUT he’s in an out. I don’t even know if Drew will last that long if our bigs are THAT involved in the playmaking aspects of the offense & not defense. Or if he continues using our scorers as playmakers … Teague is the playmaker. That’s his job. Try out Jenkin. yeah that’s a bad gameplan or offensive melt down…crash the boards…pachulia seems lazy when it comes to that…to me. horford does okay tho…I wish a fire would light under him so that he wouldn’t get pounded in the paint. You’re not commenting on any of that BUT Josh. What’s your obsession with him. Also who cares about what you damn son does? We don’t

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Larry Drew needs to be fired right now.

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HOT.ROD-You’re so firmly attached to Josh’s jockstrap that you can see the forest for the trees. Ferry has several way to get rid of Josh and his contract if he chose to do so. Josh needs to get his head out of his anus and recognize he’s the last player that needs to publically criticize his teammates and through them under the bus.

Calling out teammates for not playing better DEF might be a correct assessment of the situation, but he was totally wrong to make it public. He loses all creditability when coaches, and just about everyone else, have begged him for yrs to curtail his bad habit of taking so many jumpers. His refusal to comply with what he needs to do, while openly criticizing others, makes him look like a total hyprocrite.

You have never heard Horford or any of our other players openly criticize their teammates, even though they might see it the same as Josh. The gap in maturity the level between Josh and Horford is very wide indeed. If Josh ever reaches Horford’s maturity level, with his physical skills, he’ll actually become the superstar he and some of his delusional fanatics think he already is.

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*to take this team higher..

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*2) He dont want to play any defense either so WTF?

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Guys I was one of the idiots (aka shoe in mouth) who called for Woodson’s removal. and I also Championed the cry to hire Larry Drew.

Now I ask you do you not understand why I did this? Can you now see the logic? See Im a smart MF !

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I agree with Ken Norman. I think Danny Ferry should trade Josh Smith and Devin Harris to the Lakers for Pau Gasol and then sign Damion James. Pau would be a great fit for the Hawks. He has the same skill set as Chris Bosh, and Pau would be a perfect fit along with Al Horford and all the perimeter players. The Hawks would be a better team with Pau Gasol instead of Josh Smith.

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GREAT TO HEAR OF MORE LOSSES, HOPE OWNERS ARE LOSING THEIR BUTTS TOO AND WILL REALIZE nba IS WORTHLESS HERE AND SELL TO SEATTLE, WHO REALLY NEEDS A TEAM. IT IS A WASTE HERE, NOBODY I KNOW WOULD EVER GO TO A nba GAME, PLEASE MOVE ASAP !

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[...] Atlanta Hawks: Warriors 92, Hawks 88 The Hawks, minus Al Horford, had little inside presence against the Warriors. It showed – on the scoreboard & in the stat sheet. The Warriors handed the Hawks a 92-88 defeat Wednesday night at the Oracle Arena. Horford, the Hawks begining center, … Read more on Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]

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We should never have to adjust to the inferior team. That’s like Miami playing one of their scrub centers trying to match up with the Wizards or something.

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