Atlanta Hawks: Williams the go-to guy down the stretch
Vivlamore back from Oklahoma and reporting from Hawks practice.
Right now, the fourth quarter belongs to Lou Williams.
That could change. Hawks coach Larry Drew insists playing time down the stretch of games, particularly among the depth of guards, will be determined by who has the hot hand that night.
Guard Lou Williams signed with the Hawks as a free agent in July after seven seasons with the 76ers. CURTIS COMPTON / CCOMPTON@AJC.COM
Williams has been the team’s go-to guy late in the first two games for the Hawks (1-1). He has played every fourth-quarter minute and scored 27 of his 41 points (66 percent) in the final stanzas. In those two periods he is a combined 7-for-17 from the field and 11-for-11 from the free-throw line.
“I just want to be in the rotation,” Williams said. “That’s my main thing. As long as I’m on the court, I just try to maximize the minutes I get and make everything happen that I can.”
He may not start, but Williams has certainly been on the court when it mattered most.
Williams scored a team-high 22 points in the season opening loss the Rockets, with 13 points coming in the final quarter. His 22 points were the second-highest total for a player coming off the bench in his Hawks debut since the team moved to Atlanta in 1968, trailing only Tom Van Arsdale’s 23-point effort versus Portland in 1974.
In Sunday’s victory over the Thunder, Williams scored 19 points, scoring 14 of the Hawks’ final 23 points.
“We decided to ride Lou’s hot hand,” Drew said following Sunday’s game. “He made some really good baskets.”
In the win over the Thunder, Drew said he considered re-inserting starters Jeff Teague, who finished with 16 points, and Kyle Korver back in the game. Williams’ hot hand made Drew reconsider.
“From a coaching standpoint, you are going to ride the hot hand,” Drew said. “I don’t care who it is. In a situation where somebody is playing well, somebody is in a rhythm, somebody is having a good quarter you ride that. I don’t think there is any coach who would not do that. The last thing you want to do is disrupt flow.”
Williams, the runner-up for the NBA’s Sixth Man award last season, leads the Hawks is many statistical categories. He is first in scoring average (20.5), points (41), field goals attempted (31), free throws made (14), free throws attempted (16) and steals (five, tied with Teague). He is second in assists (nine). Despite coming off the bench, Williams is third in minutes played (58), behind Al Horford (71) and DeShawn Stevenson (63) and in field goals made (12).
“That is fine,” Teague said of Williams’ playing time late. “We are all here to win. Whatever we have to do to get a win, we are all with that. Lou had is going (Sunday) and we were all rooting for him. We were all excited to get a win. There are going to be nights like that. I might have it going. Lou. Devin (Harris). It doesn’t matter. We all want to win. We are all Hawks. It doesn’t matter who is playing.”
Practice report
*Josh Smith, who missed Sunday’s game with a sprained right ankle, did not practice Monday but worked on the side with the team’s training staff. Drew said Smith did some shooting. Drew did not know whether Smith could return for Wednesday’s home game against the Pacers, calling the forward day-to-day.
* Backup center Johan Petro (back) also did not practice.
* Drew said he did not feel that Korver, who is 1-for-8 from the field in his first two games, is pressing. “I just think he is trying to find his rhythm,” Drew said. “We are only two games into the season. … One thing about shooters, they know they can have two bad games but they know they can come back and have five good games in a row.”
* Stevenson, Teague and Williams finally allowed rookie John Jenkins to compete in their post-practice 3-point shooting competition. Stevenson won the first game but Jenkins was a clear winner in the second.
- Chris Vivlamore
LATEST NEWS
* Tolliver to start for Smith vs. OKC
* Smith not on trip to OKC with sprained ankle
* Smith on verge of statistical milestone
* Smith, Horford are interim captains
* Five things we learned from the preseason
* Teague, Pachulia return to full-contact practice, ready for opener
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207 comments Add your comment
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
3:45 pm
Nice!
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
3:47 pm
SWEET LOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
3:47 pm
3rd
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
3:49 pm
“Shoot the J! Shoot it!” -Dave Chappelle-
It Teague wont take it. Sit his azz down and let SWEET LOU operate…..
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
3:51 pm
The 4th Quarter belong to Lou? Really?
Soon the 1st quarters and the starting job will belong to SWEET LOU!
Astro Joe
November 5th, 2012
3:52 pm
Sounds like they didn’t want to take a rookie beatdown in the 3-point contest. Nice!
As soon as they announced the LouWill signing, I suggested that the Hawks had found their “designated closer”. This town has a few good guys to finish out games. Craig Kimbrell, Matt Ryan/Matt Bryant and LouWill. (Bryant looked shaky last night but I still believe that he will come up big in the playoffs).
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
3:54 pm
“* Stevenson, Teague and Williams finally allowed rookie John Jenkins to compete in their post-practice 3-point shooting competition. Stevenson won the first game but Jenkins was a clear winner in the second.” C-Viv
any guess what place Teague ended in both contests? Hmmmmmm
Astro Joe
November 5th, 2012
3:55 pm
Slim, yeah, folk are trying to say that Horford might steal some shine from Josh… I think it is Lou who after two games is looking like the guy most likely to steal fan and teammate affection from Josh.
Chris Vivlamore
November 5th, 2012
3:56 pm
The first five places go to Slimjr!
Slim, Teague was won the last two contests.
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
3:56 pm
Who cares about shine, just win baby! WIN! lol…
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
3:58 pm
Chris, your joking right?
cp
November 5th, 2012
4:02 pm
Yea Astro I was wrong about Sullinger sliding in the draft. I thought he should have went higher. Dang slim guess you were wrong.
Grandad
November 5th, 2012
4:15 pm
* [F T L B]
Astro Joe @ 11:27 am … ///// ….. Post 0` the yr !
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
4:22 pm
His jumper is a [thang] of beauty coming off those set screens!
O’Brien#
Yes, the Knicks are 16-5 w/o Armare.Kinda hard to gel when your Allstar has not been healthy and missing quiet a few game the past 2 years..This aint tennis..
But know this when Amare fully heals he is still better than any Hawk player on their roster..Hmmmmm
What a quandary for Woody to figure out. How to integrate his multiple Allstar power forward into his system once he heals up and continue pulverizing opponents….
Guess that why the Knicks pay Woody the BIG BUCKS! hehehehe
Woody is 20-6 [regular] season record.. Sublime!
Rod from College Park
November 5th, 2012
4:30 pm
Any player with any real offensive basketball skills becomes the go to guy on this team. The reason is because the so called stars on this team (Joe, Josh, Horford) offensive games are flawed. First Flip became the man with Joe, then Jamal was the man with Joe, now Lou will be the man. It speaks more to Horford and Josh not being #1 guys, but being forced to have to become #1’s because of the flawed makeup of the roster. I like Lou Williams game alot, just like I liked Jamal’s game alot and even Flip’s. Reallistically though, you will not win in the playoffs in the NBA depending on Lou Williams, or Jamal Crawford or Flip Murray to be the go-to guy, because they can easily be taken out of the game. We need Horford and or Josh to consistently be dominate for us to be successful.
Just Joe
November 5th, 2012
4:40 pm
Lou’s scoring is too high volume, low efficiency for me to want him starting off games. I believe he’s shooting under 40% from the field (could be wrong). I prefer him coming in firing off the bench, and closing out games from the foul line.
Teague should remain the starter, but he needs to provide consistent defense, and take high % shots at the rim (or pass off) on offense. Last night was a pretty good showing, but I think he can get even better.
I’m not real concerned with Teague passing up the 3 late in game 1. He shouldn’t have been in that position to start with. Why not reverse the roles? Let your PG (Teague) handle the ball, and your scoring-guard (Lou) play off the ball, like he says he prefers.
The Big Picture
November 5th, 2012
4:41 pm
Mike Woodson’s coaching record:
W 226 L 292
W-L%: .436
Playoffs: 12-22 .353%
That’s the Big Picture.
Mike is Back
November 5th, 2012
4:43 pm
MsDee, ease up on my boy Josh…it’s just game two folk!lol
Sautee
November 5th, 2012
4:44 pm
Co-sign Rod’s 4:30 pm post. Precisely.
Rod from College Park
November 5th, 2012
4:45 pm
Ms Dee,
“I bet if the coaches of this league had to choose BASED ON THE ONE GAME THAT JOSH PLAYED LAST YEAR VS HORFORD’S PLAY LAST NIGHT AGAINST THE SAME TEAM, they would STILL choose Horford’s play, u know why? Cause Horford’s OVERALL PERFORMANCE (including his decision-making, lask of TO’s, no crying/barking at ref’s weither on court or while resting the bench, and his overall b-ball IQ) will FOREVER out weigh Josh’s ERRATIC performance!!”
Have no idea what point you are trying to make. Really no need to respond or debate with you concerning Horford because you always have your rose colored Horford glasses on. I just don’t feel you really understand the game will enough to really understand my points. I don’t bash Horford to make Josh look better, just like I won’t bash Josh to make Horford look better. You continue to speak on Horford’s high basketball IQ. Please explain to me what makes his basketball IQ so high? I don’t get it. I you really have a problem with guys arguing with the refs, then you obviously don’t watch alot of NBA basketball. All of the stars in the league argue with refs. Jordan stayed arguing with refs. Josh is actually the guy that is more CONSISTENT. You know what you will get from him every night. Horford has been more ERRATIC, case in point game one and game two.
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
4:49 pm
His Hawks coaching record is irrelevant…Throw it out with the bath water…..
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
4:50 pm
Big Al must of bought her a drink or two? lol!
Astro Joe
November 5th, 2012
4:52 pm
Imagine if the headline of this blog had been this:
“Atlanta native takes on new role of leading Hawks with late game heroics”.
And it was about Lou Williams.
An ankle would not have been the only thing twisted and knotted.
WeBurn
November 5th, 2012
4:55 pm
I REALLY liked Teague’s quote. Great outlook. I hope we keep him after this season.
O'Brien
November 5th, 2012
5:04 pm
Slimjr,
“Game…Blouses” lol.
As for the Knicks, I don’t think Amare and Carmelo work well together, because Carmelo needs to dominate the ball, which leaves Amare standing around.
If I am Woody, I bring him off the bench when he comes back, for a trial period. if they keep winning, then keep bringing him off the bench.
Grandad
November 5th, 2012
5:05 pm
I have seen Lou Williams jabbering at teammates,
during timeout, breaks etc.; which I like. [even Josh]
Lou wears the mantle of leadership easily and `tis natural.
This already has become Lou`s team.
This is not a slam on Josh nor Al.
It just happened as I said above naturally.
Also, as I said several days ago;
” Lou is our pg “.
Another occurrence – Lou should start. [1] (pg)
When I said this is Lou`s team:
it has nothing to do with being the leading scorer,
taking the most shots, taking the last shot,
making the all-star team, even being captain (only a title).
This became Lou`s team completely through osmosis.
Lou is a Tony Parker-esque pg.
By that I mean:
He most likely will never lead the league in assists; He just Leads !
G-Dad speaks
O'Brien
November 5th, 2012
5:07 pm
When Josh comes back, I don’t think he will have any issues with Lou being the closer. imo, Josh’s biggest faults are being stubborn and trying to do too much at times. But in crunch time, I think he will pass to Lou for a game winning shot if Lou is open.
Ken Strickland
November 5th, 2012
5:16 pm
SLIMJR-Why are you being critical of Teague for not taking jumpers? He’s just doing what the team needs him to do most, and what he does best, and that’s penetrate and get into the lane to score, dish, or draw fouls. After all, we certainly have our share of shooters on the team already. What you should be critical of is JSmith’s refusal to recognize what the team needs for him to do most, and what he does best, and follow Teague’s lead.
With Josh and Petro hurting and no definite time table set for their return, we need to recall Benson, since he’s already familiar with the players and our OFF and DEF systems. We’re simply too thin, small, and rebounding challenged along our frontline to continue going with what we’ve got, especially with LDrew’s reluctance to play the few rebounders we do have.
This fool seems to think that Korver, Tolliver and Stevenson’s 3pt shooting can overcome any DEF and rebounding problems we might have.
CDOG
November 5th, 2012
5:20 pm
THE DIFFERENCE AGAINST THE THUNDER WAS THAT THE HAWKS PLAYED HARD, SMART AND AS A TEAM.JEFF TEAGUE EVEN PLAYED SMART.PLUS THEY WENT INSIDE AND SHOT LAYUPS.THE DEFENSE WAS A WHOLE LOT BETTER THAN AGAINST THE SORRY ROCKETS.GOOD JOB HAWKS! BLOW THE PACERS AND HEAT OFF THE FLOOR
tyger
November 5th, 2012
5:26 pm
Teague in a 3pt shooting contest…LOL
Did the backboard break, are the rims bent…or
Did he just shoot airballs?
He’s so funny, I’m starting to like the lil’ guy…
Reminds me of the lil’ dude from Notre Dame…
What was his name? “Rodney”???
MsDee
November 5th, 2012
5:28 pm
Rod from College Park,
So u REALLY dont have no idea what point I was making?? Really? Wow, no wonder u have this man crush on Josh, ya both have the same identical IQ, ‘RETARDATION’. S O R R Y, R O D, I C A N T B R E A K I T D O W N N O B E T T E R T H E N I A L R E A D Y H A V E. C A N U U N D E R S T A N D T H E W O R D S T H A T I A M T Y P I N G T O U? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
MsDee
November 5th, 2012
5:30 pm
LOL, me with the “rose colored Horford glasses on.” I guess we have the same glasses on, except yours belongs to Josh left butt cheek
MsDee
November 5th, 2012
5:34 pm
Oh, I forgot to ANSWER your question..what makes Horford’s b-ball IQ so high? His decision-making, lask of TO’s, no crying/barking at ref’s weither on court or while resting the bench, and his ability to recognize those who are around him. And if u dont like my explanation of his IQ, just ask Steve Smith and company from NBATV, he took the words RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH concerning Horford!!
MsDee
November 5th, 2012
5:37 pm
“All of the stars in the league argue with refs. Jordan stayed arguing with refs. Josh is actually the guy that is more CONSISTENT.”
HOW DARE U PUT JOSH NAME NEXT TO THE GREATEST BALL PLAYER OF HIS TIME???
MsDee
November 5th, 2012
5:39 pm
Westbrook is the Josh Smith of OKC..and yall see how that ended for them??? A big fat ‘L’…lol lol lol
Josh whoooooo……………
Buddy Grizzard
November 5th, 2012
5:43 pm
They never let John Jenkins join in any reindeer games
MsDee
November 5th, 2012
5:46 pm
OB
I’m a fan of Horford too, but I don’t think Josh’s inconsistencies have anything to do with B’Ball IQ. I think his problem is overconfidence (and some stubbornness too). But I think Josh’s B’Ball IQ is fine.
Put Josh Smith on the Spurs or the Celtics and see how his game improves with a coach like Doc Rivers or Greg Popovich. The talent is there. It’s his mindset that needs improvement (not B’Ball IQ imo).”
OB,
I never said the talent wasnt there either but sorry to correct you BUT the b-ball IQ HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HIS “inconsistencies” AND HIS “mindset”. Heck, put Teague, Ivan, or even Josh Powell (oh yeah, he IS there) and see how great their performance change. So, u are right, the talent has always been there, but his IQ/ inconsistencies /mindset will FOREVER KEEP HIM FROM BEING AN ALLSTAR!! ITS THAT “CUT & DRY”
Rod from College Park
November 5th, 2012
5:48 pm
MsDee,
So, if Horford passes up a shot in the paint, to get the ball to Josh standing behind the 3 point line wide open, does that mean that Horford’s basketball IQ is high because he passed to the open man? Was he a good team player because he passed the ball to a wide open player? What decision making has Horford made in the last 5 years for this team, that makes his basketball IQ so high? Was his basketball IQ very high last year in game 6 against the Celtics when he had 7 turnovers in a deciding game?. Was it high when he missed the free throw to send the game to overtime. Where was his IQ in game one this year when his man outrebounded him by almost 15 boards, and he was just standing on the perimeter waiting on Josh and Zaza to get a rebound? So if crying at refs determines basketball IQ, then Michael Jordan, Reggie Miller, Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson’s…… IQ’s must be pretty low.
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
5:50 pm
MsDee vs. RCP
Where’s my popcorn!
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
5:53 pm
Romnesia in mathematical terms: [1+1=-2]
MsDee
November 5th, 2012
5:54 pm
Think about it, why in carnation would Josh NOT get chosen to be an AllStar by the coaches after looking at his stats prior to the allstar selections?????? I mean, he straight out beat out Iguodala AND Deug. But did his STATS make the difference in him getting pick??? NOPE it didnt. So u guys need to stop thinking how Josh sees it and just face the facts! Until Josh decides to put his ego and pride up on the shelf, and just learn to play to his strengths, then he can just stop wanting to be respected as an allstar cause it wont happen if he doesnt chance his ways/mindset!
Rod from College Park
November 5th, 2012
5:54 pm
Slimjr,
That’s not even a fair battle. MsDee just likes Horford because he blew her a kiss and made her panties moist. She has no idea what is going on out there on the court. LOL
MsDee
November 5th, 2012
5:57 pm
Rod,
Dont hate cause I got the kiss from sexy Horford while yo kiss came from Mr Cry bady Josh!! I saw yall on kissCam!!!
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
5:57 pm
“This already has become Lou`s team.
“This is not a slam on Josh nor Al.
It just happened as I said above naturally.
Also, as I said several days ago;
” Lou is our pg “.
Another occurrence – Lou should start. [1] (pg)” -Grandad-
The teacher has spoken..
Astro Joe
November 5th, 2012
6:00 pm
People, can we just decide that every player is stupid, every coach is incompetent and every GM is ineffective so that we can get on with the business of cheering for our favorite team?
Rod from College Park
November 5th, 2012
6:01 pm
“Think about it, why in carnation would Josh NOT get chosen to be an AllStar by the coaches after looking at his stats prior to the allstar selections?????? I mean, he straight out beat out Iguodala AND Deug.”
See what I mean Slimjr. Still harping on this All Star game nonsense. I guess she really thinks that Yao Ming was the best center in the league when he kept getting more votes than Shaq. LOL
MsDee
November 5th, 2012
6:04 pm
Rod,
BE QUIET!!
MsDee
November 5th, 2012
6:05 pm
Slimjr dont care about u…ya see, he turn the tide and jumped BACK on the winning player, Horford BABY!! Aint that rite, slim,
MsDee
November 5th, 2012
6:07 pm
lol..im out, it was fun, Mr Rod but I must head home to be with the fam..might get back on later 2nite..peace & luv my Blog PEEPS!!
lightsoutfrom3
November 5th, 2012
6:11 pm
Hawks should let John Jenkins have a chance over Kyle Korver! At least give him a chance. Sit Toliver down and let Ivan Johnson start!
GoHawks
November 5th, 2012
6:16 pm
The Hawks are a offense power house. I like it. GOOOOO HAWKSSSSS. You have a lot of fans that support you Coach D. Believe that!!!!!!! Go Hawks
Rod from College Park
November 5th, 2012
6:17 pm
“HOW DARE U PUT JOSH NAME NEXT TO THE GREATEST BALL PLAYER OF HIS TIME???”
So the greatest ball player of Josh’s time was Michael Jordan? Josh was in middle school when Mike was playing. LOL
Rod from College Park
November 5th, 2012
6:19 pm
“lol..im out, it was fun, Mr Rod but I must head home to be with the fam..might get back on later 2nite..peace & luv my Blog PEEPS!!”
All good MsDee. Enjoy the fam. All fun and games here.
vava74
November 5th, 2012
6:25 pm
AJ,
Josh always takes some shots where he hesitates.
A large chunk his mid/long range missed have an element of hesitation.
And if you remember, he even had a shrink advising him and tell him not to second guess himself AND he started that season shooting really well and then slowly things went down hill. Was it last year or two years ago?
My argument is : guys with irrational confidence don’t hire shrinks.
Ken Strickland
November 5th, 2012
7:02 pm
MSDEE-Allow me to try and get through to ROD FROM CP. ROD, it’s obvious that you have been affected by the vapors coming off Josh’s jockstrap, so here’s some statistical facts that might help clear the air, so to speak.
JOSH/HORFORD(INCLUDING 2ND GM)-MINS 42/37(33), PTS 19/14(23), FGA-M 21-9/10-6(19-11). REBS 10/5(12), AST 2/3(3), STL 0/1(1), BKKS 3/0(1).
As you can see, Horford is a much more efficient shooter and scorer. HORFORD HATERS were out in full force after our 1st gm complaining about his lack of scoring and rebounding. However, Josh outscored Horford by only 4 pts(18-14), but he needed 11 additional shots(21-10FGA) to score those 4 extra pts.
Bottomline, we need to run our OFF through Horford rather than Josh, because he’s a far more efficient scorer, creates fewer turnovers, and is more versatile offensively, due to his excellent high percentage jumpshooting ability. What really exposes these HORFORD HATERS, and their low basketball IQs, it their complaints about Horford relying too much on his jumpshot even though he’s one of the NBAs most effective. Yet, these same HORFORD HATING whiners praise JSmith’s OFF ability, and continues to ignore the fact that he’s one of the NBAs worst 2pt shooters, but continues to launch them.
Sautee
November 5th, 2012
7:24 pm
Ken S,
That’s a little over the top. Josh is not a great 2 pt shooter, but he’s nowhere near the worst in the league. You lose credibility if you over-exaggerate.
ntrigue
November 5th, 2012
7:31 pm
Offense doesnt need to run through Horford nor Josh its needs to rotate and whoever is hotter needs to get majority of the touches down the strecth! This can change game to game but in order to be our best we need both playing at a high level along with everybody else!
Grandad
November 5th, 2012
7:36 pm
Sautee
Don`t you think K S meant 3 pt shooting ?
Now the worst or near the worst “3″ pt shooter in the league is …
JordanCrawford ……. and that`s a fact !
cp
November 5th, 2012
7:36 pm
To be fair he said one of the worst which if you look at the numbers might be true. I think northcyde posted them on here a few times and it was not pretty.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 5th, 2012
7:43 pm
“Lou is a Tony Parker-esque pg.
By that I mean:
He most likely will never lead the league in assists; He just Leads !”
The only reason Parker doesn’t rack up assists is because Popovich’s system isn’t conducive to PGs racking up assists. If he played for D’Antoni he’d be among the league leaders.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 5th, 2012
7:44 pm
Rod’s 4:30 post is on point.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 5th, 2012
7:45 pm
“his ability to recognize those who are around him.”
Josh gets more assists per game than Al and routinely ranks among the league leaders in dimes among front court players. Seems like he recognizes those who are around him fairly well.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 5th, 2012
7:47 pm
I wonder who administers the IQ test for basketball players, anyway. Mensa? The MacArthur Foundation? “Basketball IQ” is the most overrated phrase in basketball.
Grandad
November 5th, 2012
7:54 pm
* ftpb – darrell starks suggested josh should play the [3]
and post up smaller players; to which I agree.
Playing the [3] has zero meaning for schematic floor spacing.
The Coach / Off-coordinator can place Zaza on the wing if they choose.
With player movement and spacing, plus screening a plyr can be
wherever the coach draws him up to be.
-Therefore-
Josh can play the [3] and post up – case closed – where he should be.
As for his Jump / Set shot;
when Josh shoots [facing] he needs / must shoot in rhythm.
Someone said above [MsDee ? perhaps] occasionally Josh hesitates.
It matters not whether he hesitates or just if he waits;
I think sometimes he looks to make a pass 1st before shooting.
It`s still too late, as he must catch & shoot whether a two or a three.
* -In Rhythm- *
His mid-range (12 to 16 ft) rhythm jumper should be unstoppable.
I also said ” jumper ” – not a set shot.
With his lift, I repeat = unstoppable.
Yes … I`m an expert [instructor] in & of the art & science of shooting.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 5th, 2012
7:54 pm
“JOSH/HORFORD(INCLUDING 2ND GM)-MINS 42/37(33), PTS 19/14(23), FGA-M 21-9/10-6(19-11). REBS 10/5(12), AST 2/3(3), STL 0/1(1), BKKS 3/0(1).
As you can see, Horford is a much more efficient shooter and scorer. ”
More conclusions from the Ken Strickland Small Sample Size Think Tank:
Lakers: 1-3
Magic: 2-0
As you can see, the Magic are better than the Lakers.
James Harden this season: 35.3 ppg on 52.7% shooting
Michael Jordan for his career: 30.1 ppg on 49.7% shooting
As you can see, James Harden is a better and more efficient scorer than Michael Jordan.
Matt Ryan: 206/299, 68.9% completion percentage
Bengals WR Mohamed Sanu: 1/1, 100% completion percentage
As you can see, Mohamed Sanu is a better quarterback than Matt Ryan.
High-sider
November 5th, 2012
7:58 pm
@Rod from College Park
“… I like Lou Williams game alot, just like I liked Jamal’s game alot and even Flip’s. Reallistically though, you will not win in the playoffs in the NBA depending on Lou Williams, or Jamal Crawford or Flip Murray to be the go-to guy, because they can easily be taken out of the game…” – Rod from College Park @4:30pm dated 11/5/2012
Why do feel J. Crawford, L. Williams and “Flip” Murray can’t be “go-to” guys in the playoffs? Are they easily taken out of games with/through double teams or do they lack the strength/power, size, stamina or durability or is it both? BTW, I read your post about Jamal Crawford averaging 25.7ppg through the first three games and I agree with you about Hawks management’s player personnel decisions.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 5th, 2012
7:59 pm
Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh have higher shooting percentages for their careers than LeBron, so clearly the Heat should be running the offense through them.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 5th, 2012
8:01 pm
In keeping with the season, George W. Bush got 50.7% of the popular vote in 2004. Abraham Lincoln got 39.8% of the popular vote in 1860. As you can see, Bush was a better president than Lincoln.
Grandad
November 5th, 2012
8:03 pm
Najeh
” The only reason Parker doesn’t rack up assists is because
Popovich’s system isn’t conducive to PGs racking up assists.
If he played for D’Antoni he’d be among the league leaders.”
I agree wholeheartedly !
Therefore;
with DFerry being “the man” I do believe we will be running
a similar system.
I do believe LD has begun to put in the rudiments of Pop`s system already.
keith
November 5th, 2012
8:04 pm
A couple of days ago this is what i envisoned for our basketball team. Big men attacking the basket. This is good stuff, beating The Thunder in OKC. Go Hawks!!!
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
8:04 pm
The exaggeration of Josh’s game or lack there of is astonishing by some.
Houston, we seem to have a problem..
Rod from College Park
November 5th, 2012
8:13 pm
I wonder who administers the IQ test for basketball players, anyway. Mensa? The MacArthur Foundation? “Basketball IQ” is the most overrated phrase in basketball.
Really. Remember Kirk Hinrich had the highest basketball IQ of any of the Hawks, yet in 2 years I can remember of maybe 2 or 3 games that he really helped us win.
keith
November 5th, 2012
8:23 pm
I am on board with those who suggest Horford should get about 20 shots per game. He should be our 1st scoring option followed by Lou Williams. I am losing confidence in Josh Smith.
keith
November 5th, 2012
8:23 pm
I am on board with those who suggest Horford should get about 20 shots per game. He should be our 1st scoring option followed by Lou Williams. I am losing confidence in Josh Smith.
High-sider
November 5th, 2012
8:26 pm
Slimjr,
Your Knicks [team] is [currently] playing the Sixers in Philly.
Rod from College Park
November 5th, 2012
8:26 pm
“Why do feel J. Crawford, L. Williams and “Flip” Murray can’t be “go-to” guys in the playoffs? Are they easily taken out of games with/through double teams or do they lack the strength/power, size, stamina or durability or is it both? BTW, I read your post about Jamal Crawford averaging 25.7ppg through the first three games and I agree with you about Hawks management’s player personnel decisions.”
Specifically on this team it is easier because we really have no other real threats. Then everyone stands around and watches one guy try to beat his man off the dribble with no motion or cutters. Even when we had Jamal and Joe, Coach Thibs said after the series that their first priority became stopping Jamal because he was a more explosive scorer than Joe. Joe rarely posted, or drove to the hole, so his game was really totally perimeter, and he never got to the line. You wont be able to stop Jamal come playoff time with the Clippers because you have to focus on CP3 first. I am predicting it early in the year. Jamal will have his best playoff performance this year, because he is playing with CP3 if everyone stays healthy.
Rod from College Park
November 5th, 2012
8:29 pm
“Bottomline, we need to run our OFF through Horford rather than Josh, because he’s a far more efficient scorer, creates fewer turnovers, and is more versatile offensively, due to his excellent high percentage jumpshooting ability.”
That statement was a joke correct?
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
8:47 pm
Hs, thanks for that update..I’m going to check in on the stream and take a peak shortly..
Boy oh boy does Woody have shooters? whew!
Wish Bynum was playing…
High-sider
November 5th, 2012
8:47 pm
@Rod from College Park
I foresee a potential dilemma with the Clippers’ backcourt. If, and when, Chaucey Billups returns, who closes out the “tight” games at the 2-guard position – “The Difference” or “Mr. Big Shot”? Does the Clippers [team] go with a three-guard lineup featuring CP3 [C. Paul], Mr. Big Shot [C. Billups] and “The Difference” [J. Crawford] late in close games? I do see Willie Green being the “odd-man out” when Billups returns [from injury]. How many minutes will or does Eric Bledsoe get when Billups returns? How will Caron Butler feel if he is not in the game late during “crunch time”? Coach Del Negro’s “deep bench” may become more of a liability than an asset. I know this is a Hawks blog but I digress. My apologies [go out to you Hawks blog] folks.
Luke Cage
November 5th, 2012
9:08 pm
SWEET CHRISTMAS!!!
Can’t we just enjoy the thunder victory without any Hawk bashing
“Can’t we all just, (hesitate for a few seconds) get along” LOL!!
Luke Cage
November 5th, 2012
9:13 pm
Got an Idea, if Josh if is in a groove then run the O thru him, if Al is in a groove go thru him or whoever is in a groove, just go with the hot hand but I would always start the 1st possession with Josh on the low block, jus sayin.
57 states
November 5th, 2012
9:16 pm
where 0 said he’d been to.
Ken Strickland
November 5th, 2012
9:18 pm
SAUTEE-Please reread my post and you will see I didn’t say Josh was the worst, but one of the worst.
DAVENPOOP-You’re right, I did use a small sample, but as you and everyone else knows, there’s a very big sample out there for anyone to utilize when it comes to an OFF efficiency comparison between Josh and Horford. Anyone who’s objective and knowledgeable also knows Josh is a better help defender and shotblocker than Horford, but Horford is the better one on one defender.
If you look at the career shooting percentages of both players, you’ll see Horford is the far more efficient scorer of the 2. Horford needs far fewer shot attempts to score the same amount of pts, and has fewer turnovers as well. The small sample I used represents what should be obvious to anyone who’s done a little research.
This either or BS that some fans focus on when it comes to Josh and Horford is just that, PURE BS. We need both players if we expect to have a successful season. I’m sick and tired of reading all of this trade Horford or Josh BS without once mentioning who we can get in return. It’s just downright STUPIDITY at its best.
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
9:37 pm
Melo, with 20mins left has 19 and 7!
Knicks up 13!
7 for 13 behind the arc..Knicks are on cruise control with these shooters! Plus Melo balling!
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
9:40 pm
15 and pulling away…..
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
9:41 pm
18 on a Jason kid three!
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
9:43 pm
20: 14-0 run..
terrell
November 5th, 2012
9:44 pm
Larry Drew justneeds to stop talking. PERIOD!
MsDee
November 5th, 2012
9:47 pm
Hi Rod and Najeh, my 2 favorite guys..only here for a lil bit, but just HAD to comment on Najeh sarcastic posts.
Well, not much really to comment on cause Im sure u knew EXACTLY what KenS was talking about when he compared the 2 together. It just proves that u see the facts in what was stated, u are just as in denial as Josh is to really believe he should be respected higher than he is being credited for. Josh THINKS he should be an AllStar, Najeh THINKS he should be an AllStar, Mr. Rod from CP THINKS he should be an AllStar, steven a smith THINKS he should be an AllStar, might as well throw in vava74, he might THINK he should be an AllStar..
I must admit, Josh has accomplished some great things. He broke the 500-block mark, making him the youngest player to do so in NBA history and also became the youngest player (at 24 years old) to block 1000 shots. Lead the Hawks with a career high 32 points and 19 rebounds in Joe Johnson’s absence last season. Other achievements including making the All Defensive second team, All rookie second team, and on TOP of THAT, was the SLAM DUNK CHAMP!! So I GET IT, Josh as some serious talent, so PLEASE tell me guys, be COMPLETELY HONEST WITH ME WITHOUT ANY ‘SMART’ REMARKS. I just really want to know from your heart,, after all these accomplishments, WHY HAVEN’T JOSHUA JSMOOVE SMITH BEEN CALLED AN ALLSTAR AFTER 8 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE?? And please dont say cause there are ‘better players who play his position’ nonsense cause no way and I mean NO WAY Iggy nor Deug makes it b4 him. This question is actually OPEN for anyone who could give me a reasonable answer!!
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
9:55 pm
10 for 23 beyond the arc..Hey Woody can go read a book! Man they make it look easy out there…
These 3’s are being takin in rhythm. Nothing forced..Beautiful too watch!
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
9:58 pm
MV7 is getting KILLED OUT THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Saints got three guys unblocked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
FIRE THE WHOLE COACHING STAFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
10:02 pm
Rasheed Wallace comes off the bench cold near the end of the 3rd quarter and drains 2 three’s?
Are you kidding?
11-26 for 33 pts.. Too easy!
MsDee
November 5th, 2012
10:09 pm
Oh and this will be the last time I debate about Josh and Horford cause YES, they both represent the Atlanta Hawk who I LOVE to cheer for. And seeing that we have some really GREAT pieces, I only want them to PLAY as such..
Sautee
November 5th, 2012
10:19 pm
KenS,
I’ll stick by my statement. To say that Josh is “one of the worst” 2 pt shooters in the league is STILL hyperbole well beyond reality. Perception is NOT reality.
HawkEye
November 5th, 2012
10:20 pm
Couple of thoughts from yesterday’s victory.
*As many have said, Tolliver needs to play less and Ivan more. Although I fear that when Josh comes back that Tolliver will play back-up PF and take mins from Ivan (as what happened in the Rockets Game). Also, is he supposed to be a stretch 4? If so we do not need another PF that shoots jumpshots.
*Morrow deserves some more pt. He did a decent job on Durant and even forced 2 turns. KD should’ve posted up more against Stevenson.
*Al responded well after that Rockets game, but will he continue to be that aggressive when Josh returns?
*If John Jenkins and Mike Scott are not going to play, send em to the DLeague so they can get some playing experience.
*Korver’s shot will fall soon enough. I think he should come off the bench however and compliment Lou.
*Lou knows how to draw contact and get to the line. Something I relish seeing and seldom saw when Joe was here.
*Zaza should start at center against certain teams.
*Redundant but Teague is lightning quick. He left Westbrook behind him on most of those drives to the basket.
*Rebounding was much better.
*Starters should be:
PG:Teague
SG:Stevenson
SF:Morrow or Tolliver (Smith when Horford is at PF)
PF:Smith (Horford when Zaza is at Center)
C:Horford (Zaza against more physical centers)
*One game but was impressed with what I saw. And as always, A WIN IS A WIN!
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
10:31 pm
Knicks win another blowout! 3-0 now.
Woody is destroying the opposition! Melo sat out most of the second half. His services not required…
They shot 41% from the arc..Whew…..
doc
November 5th, 2012
10:58 pm
saints are putting a hurt on the eagles now. it could get very ugly.
the perfect storm for slimj and trifecta, romo doesnt throw an interception, ryan gets off the mat after a vicious hit to lead his team to victory with no to’s himself and 7 not be able to keep chase with his team and suffers an ugly loss.
durn, you better check and make sure the locks on the weapons are tight and keys thrown away there slimj.
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
11:03 pm
Hahahah @ doc..
Fire sale comin up Philly…Jumbo jet coming for the Coach…
lewis
November 5th, 2012
11:03 pm
we got some prolific haters on this blog
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
11:12 pm
Yea doc, that was probably the worst hit Ryan took ever from DeAndre Ware!! Whew…
He is one tough dude!
We have got to see Ryan finally get over the hump! They must keep him upright!
terrell
November 5th, 2012
11:14 pm
Just watched avg Joe and the Nets blow a lead to Minnesota. lol
Man in Black
November 5th, 2012
11:16 pm
Korver stinks – he’s nothing but a bricklayer – is he related to John Konkac?
He shoots like it.
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
11:27 pm
Looks like MV7 is keepin pace with Romo..They are having such a tough year, this week included…
Romo days are numbered, the fans are getting fed up with him and his HC..Jerry will have to comply eventually.. His paying customer will demand it…
We already know MV7 rope is much shorter, Sports reflecting society? Hmmmm
doc
November 5th, 2012
11:35 pm
no slimj, not society at all. who was qb for years in philly. philly fans are about performance period but support effort and wins, both lacking of late in eagles football. gm/owner jones in complete control of everything but his ego. cheap shot at society slimj, very and you know it.
btw did you see costas’ question to jones why he hadnt fired himself as gm. great question and a point we have agreed on before.
again, jamie dukes was saying if 7 goes from philly a team he might end up on was dallas. nate newton said he didnt want to see 7 get hurt.
doc
November 5th, 2012
11:37 pm
wow saints are letting eagles back in. moments ago the eagles were in icu. now saints are injecting them with life again. pure cpr.
keith
November 5th, 2012
11:38 pm
OKC did not respect us, therefore, they took their collective feet off the gas pedal and consequently we won the basketball game. We need to sign Fesenko to at least resemble an NBA Basketball team.
doc
November 5th, 2012
11:41 pm
vick not too smart there slimj. he is the qb and has to make the adjustment to see what is coming and know what to do. he didnt come close. it was all in front of him no disguise and nothing from the blind side.
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
11:49 pm
okay doc: personal foul necessary roughness on Slimjr! hehehehe
Missed the Duckster making that statement! Yea MV7 has quite a bit left in the tank! But he has got to do a better job recognizing how the opponents are hiding their Blitz packages against him and the offense..Looks like the Philly coaching staff are just over matched tonight…Cant believe they beat the Giants this year?
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
11:49 pm
insert[unnecessary]
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
11:51 pm
True doc, some of those Blitzes are not being disguised at all.. Yes.
Slimjr
November 5th, 2012
11:53 pm
Meanwhile Drew can prepare a ham sandwich in the pocket? Wheres the freaking pass rush from the Eagles?
Ryan had all day too..
doc
November 5th, 2012
11:59 pm
that was ugly line play. the eagles are coming apart.
Slimjr
November 6th, 2012
12:00 am
That Eagle line is beyond pathetic, MV7 cant throw the darn ball with a helmet in his face or his back all night!
Rod from College Park
November 6th, 2012
12:01 am
Ken Strickland,
“Horford is a far more effective and efficient scorer than Josh, but he hasn’t been as aggressive when it comes to taking shots.”
Please explain the effective scorer part.
doc
November 6th, 2012
12:04 am
slimj it isnt all about the line nor all on 7 but they unfortunately arent on the same page.
Nate ArchiBALL
November 6th, 2012
12:04 am
The Marvin Williams Report – 6 points in loss against Memphis………So glad he doesn’t play for the Hawks.
doc
November 6th, 2012
12:08 am
meanwhile, 3 defenders around that eagles receiver. throwing into coverage.
i have been on record as saying not even with bynum am i expecting much from the sixers. as far as i am concerned they might be the bust of the year and end up in the lottery. so much for those two victories and time will tell on my hunch.
doc
November 6th, 2012
12:10 am
marvin is marvin in utah as well as atlanta. at least i dont have to stomach him on sports south, talking about his chef and playing games with his cousin.
i hope the saints arent as good as they are looking tonight. they were lucky to win 2 games, now they look like a super bowl offense.
doc
November 6th, 2012
12:11 am
still a 2 possession game.
Rod from College Park
November 6th, 2012
12:11 am
Marvin Williams
30 min, 6pts, 5rebounds. A star is born.
Slimjr
November 6th, 2012
12:13 am
Drew dodge a bullet from that sack!
Slimjr
November 6th, 2012
12:18 am
Saint should have 10 sacks…MV7 is pullin Houdini at times….
doc
November 6th, 2012
12:34 am
a legit problem for vick is he is too good at disappearing and his line sometimes doesnt know where he is as well as the defense.
doc
November 6th, 2012
12:41 am
would have preferred the eagles to win. saints dont need to sniff new life and bucs coming of age.
doc
November 6th, 2012
12:42 am
slimj, has woody brought his spread offense from atlanta? heh heh
Nate ArchiBALL
November 6th, 2012
12:55 am
How long will Doug Collins last in Philly. This is his third season and he has never coached more that three seasons for any one team…..it doesn’t take long for his stuff to get old.
doc
November 6th, 2012
12:59 am
nate said it earlier even before bynum trade, collins’ days might be numbered.
Grandad
November 6th, 2012
1:11 am
I do not understand the concept of:
” we must run our offense through …….” ?
Example;
Lou and Josh run the pick and roll;
must Teague touch it 1st ?
-or-
Teaguer and Al run the pick and roll;
must Josh touch it 1st ?
These are silly concepts unless a team has a transcendent player.
Someone named;
LBJames, Nash, Durant, CPaul, to name only four.
When a team, most teams are built with ordinary players,
playing within a team concept, they are structured in ordinary ways.
* A point guard who imitiates the offense.
* Two guards one of which is the lead guard.
* A Center [post player].
* And a bunch of other guys revolving around the guard / guards
plus the Center / Post.
It`s pretty much that simple.
Then your best shooter should take the most shots..
Keep it simple.
Grandad
November 6th, 2012
1:17 am
Meant to say *initiates.
However, we have had a few players around here who imitates
a point guard ……. I won`t say his name but it rhymes with Libby.
hawksordie
November 6th, 2012
2:18 am
Hawks need to play ball n hustle boards n stay n sync period if u collectively outplay your opponent tgen u win ..pretty much
Najeh Davenpoop
November 6th, 2012
2:19 am
“Well, not much really to comment on cause Im sure u knew EXACTLY what KenS was talking about when he compared the 2 together”
I know that he was, as usual, cherry picking relatively meaningless stats that supported his argument while ignoring the big picture. Hence the sarcasm. Anyone can cherry pick stats to mean whatever they want if they restrict the sample size enough.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 6th, 2012
2:22 am
“WHY HAVEN’T JOSHUA JSMOOVE SMITH BEEN CALLED AN ALLSTAR AFTER 8 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE?? And please dont say cause there are ‘better players who play his position’ nonsense cause no way and I mean NO WAY Iggy nor Deug makes it b4 him. This question is actually OPEN for anyone who could give me a reasonable answer!!”
To be honest, I am pretty sure it is because of the reason you mentioned earlier — he argues with the refs and has a bad rep among the coaches who select All Star reserves. The difference between me and you apparently, though, is that I think that is a BS reason to exclude someone from the All Star team whereas you think it is a legitimate reason. Based solely on production, he absolutely deserved to be an All Star last year. Luol Deng getting picked over him is a complete joke.
Jae Evolution
November 6th, 2012
2:23 am
Lose Clippers lose…will at least give me slight hope CP3 will consider our eventual pitch to him next off-season. Has to be frustrating for him having bigs that can only dunk. Sure quarters 1-3 are highlight city but in the 4th you have to have people that can get theres and Blake/DJ can’t not to mention they are both 50% FT shooters, yuck.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 6th, 2012
2:27 am
“If you look at the career shooting percentages of both players, you’ll see Horford is the far more efficient scorer of the 2. Horford needs far fewer shot attempts to score the same amount of pts, and has fewer turnovers as well.”
In large part because he is a supporting player. Tyson Chandler led the league in FG% and offensive efficiency last year, but suggesting that the Knicks should run the offense through him rather than Melo would be asinine. Chandler is that efficient because he isn’t a focal point of the offense. Al is a much better offensive player than Chandler, but he hasn’t shown that he can consistently create offense for himself and others. Josh doesn’t do that at the level of a true #1 option either, but he has done it better than Al to this point in their careers.
“This either or BS that some fans focus on when it comes to Josh and Horford is just that, PURE BS. We need both players if we expect to have a successful season. ”
I definitely agree with this.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 6th, 2012
2:31 am
“MV7 is getting KILLED OUT THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Saints got three guys unblocked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
FIRE THE WHOLE COACHING STAFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
More of a personnel issue than a coaching issue. They only have two really good offensive linemen even when healthy, and both are out for the season. It is true that they are way too pass-heavy when it comes to playcalling, but it starts with poor drafting. The “Dream Team” sounded great on paper thanks to the free agent acquisitions, but acquiring premier free agents away from the line of scrimmage means nothing if you can’t control the line of scrimmage.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 6th, 2012
2:32 am
BTW this blog apparently hasn’t gotten the memo about setting their clock back one hour.
vava74
November 6th, 2012
4:40 am
Ha! That is why I was posting yesterday and there were only 4 hours difference…
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
8:29 am
Thx Najeh for your responses…would like to also hear Rod from CP and vava74
vava74
November 6th, 2012
8:37 am
Rod,
You should check out the Jazz’s blog on Sports Nation for more Marvin updates…
Their analysis of why the lost the game against the Grizzlies almost does not mention Marvin, which means that Marvin is still under the radar for them!!
Only remark was that he had 3 TOs with such a low usage…
By December 1st they will have buyer’s remorse.
prison mike
November 6th, 2012
9:03 am
Lou is a head strong BB player. The difference between he and Al is he isn’t afraid of the spotlight. All for 5 million, great return in the investment.
Joe who? Lou needs to tweak his game just a tad and he’ll be even more impactful. The 4th quarter will Lou and Josh’s, mark it for the season.
NBA Rumors: Can Atlanta Hawks Survive Without Josh Smith | The Hoop Doctors
November 6th, 2012
9:30 am
[...] is currently nursing a sprained right ankle, and according to Chris Vivlamore of the Atlanta Journal Constitution, his return is uncertain: Josh Smith, who missed Sunday’s game with a sprained right ankle, did [...]
wordsmithtom
November 6th, 2012
9:38 am
Magic Johnson suggesting Lakers swap Pau for Josh after this year. Pau, as Granddad says, is a basketball player. Anyone see him in Olympic final. US had nothing that could stop him. Horf at 4 with Pau and all those shotmakers makes me cream, just as Josh makes Magic dream. Good trade, IMHO. We now have the salary flex come summer.
Astro Joe
November 6th, 2012
9:50 am
Hawks are giving up around 35 points to SGs after 2 games. The good news is that there are not many good scorers who play SG in the NBA (he said sarcastically). Next up, a young Paul George who is looking to establish himself in Granger’s absence.
Jason S
November 6th, 2012
9:56 am
I don’t think the new CBA will allow the Lakers to accept Josh in a sign and trade due to the fact that they are way over the cap. If that trade is going to happen, it needs to happen this year. But Pau costs a lot of money … . To make salaries work, I think you will need to ship Josh + Morrow or Korver (for example).
vava74
November 6th, 2012
9:57 am
MsDee,
MAIN reason for Josh not being selected an All Star was in 2 out of the last 3 seasons a combination of two factors (maybe 3):
The Hawks already had 2 guys selected – due to the dearth of Cs Horford was an easy pick – and there is no way on Earth that a #3/#4/5# seed will have 3 All Stars.
And, Josh has a somewhat bad rep amongst Coaches and in the league offices (since he always says that he is not selected due to politics).
vava74
November 6th, 2012
9:58 am
AJ,
Why are you worried about Paul George? The guy is only 6′7” and ubber athletic.
I am sure that LD will be back to the HOU line up since Devin will be more than enough to handle him
Astro Joe
November 6th, 2012
10:10 am
Also consider that historically, Josh has been a slow starter to the season. His previous season’s second half performance is erased by playoff disappointment and coaches are left with his current season’s stats to evaluate him. And if being respectful of your own head coach is politics… then yeah, I guess politics play a role as well.
Astro Joe
November 6th, 2012
10:14 am
vava, yeah, it doesn’t take too much imagination to envision the Pacers having Hibbert on one block and George on the other block with the ultra-skilled David West being wherever ultra skilled players play. This would definitely be a good game to have Ivan break Hibbert in half and see if DeShawn can “get in the way” of George.
Astro Joe
November 6th, 2012
10:20 am
If there is a chance that Ferry would replace LD with Mike Brown, then I am going to be the biggest Dwight fan around here. Hope the Lakers roll off 75 straight wins.
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
10:37 am
Ok, thx vava74 for your view
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
10:39 am
Last but not least, Rod from CP
O'Brien
November 6th, 2012
10:47 am
Doc,
A lot of issues in Philly. Receivers not making plays, defenders missing tackles. Also, Vick is not good at reading defenses. When he was young, and fast, he could get away with it, and avoid some of the pressure. With a bad O-line, and aging legs? not anymore.
Sam
November 6th, 2012
10:50 am
I love that the blog STILL says the wrong time. I hate when the season changes and it starts getting darker earlier!
Ken Strickland
November 6th, 2012
10:51 am
DAVENPOOP-Talk about cherry picking examples to prove a point. What in the devil does TChandler leading the NBA in FG% or the NY Knicks have to do with a comparison between JSmith and AHorford? Chandler is the Knicks garbage man on OFF, which means they don’t run plays for him nor depend on him to provide any postup OFF or outside scoring.
Whatever OFF they get from him is pure gravy. That’s certainly not the case with Josh or Horford, and you know it. Here are Josh and Horford’s career stats: JOSH/HORFORD
MPG 34/33.7, FGA 12.5/9.9, FG%46.5/53.7, 3P% 27.8/25.0, FT% 67.0/76.1, RPG 7.9/9.4, APG 3.1/2.4, BPG 2.2/1.1, SPG 1.3/.8, TO 2.5/1.6, PPG 15.1/12.8
Josh’s career average 3PT FGA are 3-4 times the number Horford has taken in his entire career. That shows that despite Horford being one of the NBAs best midrange shooters, he has enough sense to play within himself and not try to do something other than what he does best. That’s called maturity, recognition, and doing what’s best for the team rather than some personal goal.
If you think Horford takes fewer shots than Josh in large part because he’s a supporting player, maybe you should take into consideration that in large part Josh’s limited OFF skills and lack of efficiency make him nothing more than a support player as well. If you compare their career stats, you’ll see that Josh is the better overall DEF player, while Horford is the more efficient OFF player.
Their career totals are very simular, so the difference maker as far as Horford getting multiple Allstar considerations, and an All NBA selection, has a lot to do with intangibles. The coaches making the selections obviously look for intangibles such as on court demeanor, maturity, attitude, getting along with both players and coaches etc.
No one can claim Josh hasn’t heard, been told, read, or is unaware of the complaints about him arguing with the refs, jacking up so many 3s and long range 2s, or his refusal to give the ball to his PG rather than creating the numerous turnovers when trying to lead the break. After 9yrs of this crap, and still nothing has changed, you actually wonder why coaches choose Horford over Josh?
Josh is hungup on individual honors and production, and was as much of a ball stopper as JJ. Horford is much more of a team player and knows what it takes to win a championship on the big stage, excluding high school.There’s a reason teams encourage Josh to shoot as many jumpers as he wants. You can bet they won’t do that with Horford. And he hasn’t figured that out yet.
And Josh continues to have difficulty getting into the lane to get his jump hook off against PFs that are usually shorter, smaller, and less physical than the centers Horford has to go up against. Yet, he continues to give up and go to his weakness by settling for the illadvised jumper. He’s not doing what he needs to do, or doing what’s best for the team. He’s doing what he wants to do and blaming everyone else when his selfishness isn’t rewarded, and/or ignored.
He could be one of the greatest PFs in NBA history if he only had or used the mental maturity needed to harness his vast physical tools.
vava74
November 6th, 2012
10:51 am
AJ,
When I mentioned “politics” I making reference to “League Offices”.
We all know why Josh does not get sufficient love from the HCs.
KevinM
November 6th, 2012
11:40 am
Slim, a simply Philly question:
Is it me or is MV7 playing behind the tallest line in the NFL? The guy never sees anything coming. They are imploding faster than the Braves collapse last year.
And LD ought to let Korver sit and start Stephenson.
And perhaps Teague won’t be spending much time with Lou on the court…that is one small backcourt.
I also thought it was funny to watch Durant defend Zaza and Morrow defend Durant. We truly could have lost it on that last matchup alone.
KevinM
November 6th, 2012
11:55 am
I hear that the NBA all-star ballot is removing the C category on its ballots to a ‘frontcourt’ category.
Now let’s see how Al fairs in all-star voting when the category is more broad.
“That would be good news for players like Boston’s Kevin Garnett and Miami’s Chris Bosh, nominal forwards who are now playing center for their respective teams. Under the old rules, Garnett and Bosh would have been in the center category with the likes of Philadelphia’s Andrew Bynum, Atlanta’s Al Horford and Indiana’s Roy Hibbert. Now, any of them can be selected as a “frontcourt” player.”
Horford will have a tougher time now.
Rod from College Park
November 6th, 2012
12:04 pm
Ken Strickland,
The longer your post are, the dumber you look.
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
12:09 pm
KenS,
I feel ya pain when it comes to stating the facts when it comes to both Horford & Josh but at the end of the day, those same people will continue to make excuses for Josh so I have now came to the conclusion to just LET IT GO! No matter what stats Josh can put up across the board, the Hawks will FOREVER look BETTER as a TEAM w/o HIM on the floor. Watching the Hawks play with Josh on the floor is the same as watching a horror movie, u will ALWAYS be on the edge of your seats just waiting til terror or tragic strikes! When the ball in Josh’s hands, I start to hear that horror music in the background of my head…ITS TERRIFYING!!
KevinM
November 6th, 2012
12:09 pm
“I still want to coach. Unfortunately we got let go in Orlando, I turned a job down in Atlanta and nothing else was offered.”
Its a shame because Ewing could have moved up to the top slot if LD wasn’t able to get this team moving forward. I have wanted him to come in here for awhile.
Astro Joe
November 6th, 2012
12:11 pm
Kevin, the coaches selected Horford previously. If the Hawks are a 7-9 ranked team in January, they will be lucky to land a single All-Star. Josh will be more likely to get the nod over Al but I could see them being shut out. I wouldn’t mind a designation in the future for 1 All-Star bench player… Lou would be a viable candidate for that role. If you honor a top bench player at the end of the year, why not in the ASG?
Rod from College Park
November 6th, 2012
12:13 pm
MsDee,
Nothing to respond to. The allstar game is irrelevant in any discussion concerning Al and Josh. Al has made the all start game twice at the center position because he was competing against the likes of Roy Hibbert, Andrew Bogut….. Josh has not because he is competing against Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce (All will be Hall of Famers)………. Luol Deng made it over Josh because his team was in first place, and Atlanta already had two players on the team. Philly had no representation thus Iggy was chosen. A 4th or 5th place team will almost never get 3 players selected for an all star team unless it Hall of fame type gusy like the Celtics had with Allen, Garnett, and Pierce. Al would never have been voted in at the forward position. That is a fact.
O'Brien
November 6th, 2012
12:18 pm
Speaking of no more centers (designated) for the ASG…from espn.com;
Dwight Howard; We work just as hard as anybody else. I don’t think it’s fair to take away a position which has been here for life. You need a center on the court. So I don’t think it’s right.
That’s like taking away a guard.
“I don’t like it at all,” emphatically stated the three-time defensive player of the year. “We work just as hard as anybody else. I don’t think it’s fair to take away a position which has been here for life. You need a center on the court. So I don’t think it’s right. That’s like taking away a guard. That’s how I feel.
“It’s been that way since they started All-Star Games, so why change it now? Because centers shoot 3’s now?”.
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
12:18 pm
“Philly had no representation thus Iggy was chosen.”????????? WHAT??? Oh, nevermind, Thx Rod for your view!
MaconBaby
November 6th, 2012
12:25 pm
Geeze guys come on!
After reading some of these comments i gotta say something.
Basketball IQ is how a player can adapt and adjust in unexpected situations that require a almost instinct response. It’s probably the hardest thing to teach a player. Josh does have a high basketball IQ, ESPECIALLY on Defense. It’s why he’s such an effective shot blocker and shot alterer. So many times josh comes off his man just at the right time to stop the pass and/or the shot.
Or even on a steal, when he comes down in transition and it’s him against 2 players and still able to read the players and their passes back in forth, THAT WASN”T A CALLED PLAY (Completely unexpected), and make a play in his favor to get the block or stop the shot.
That’s basketball IQ, Reading the player and being a step ahead on the play is something that has to come natural as you play the game. You don’t have time to look at the coach and set up on defense, you have to make a SPLIT SECOND DECISION!
He also has it on the Offensive end, with his ability to pass. So far in the season josh is the only player i think that has a ALLEY-OOP. which is something that has a small window for success and takes a great amount of basket ball IQ. I never saw saw many alley oop passes for blake until CP3 came. WHY? He can read defenses and his teammates well and adjust.
Last season just had some great games where he displayed his offensive abilities as far as reading the defense in transition(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-UbIJQtAp8), which he really capable of doing. Putting himself in the right position to receive the ball at the right moment catching the defense off guard for a split second. Passing off the ball in transition when defenders have doubled him. Coming off his defender down low to receive a pass with just enough space to get the dunk or layup. FOOTWORK especially, taking the right steps off the dribble in transition at the right moment to get past his defender.
What i’m trying to say Is josh does have a deep amount of Basketball IQ to pull from. He can make those plays. he did it well last year because he was with guys he had been with for the past 3 or 4 years. They CAN GEL. And Joe went down at a good time bc the guys had been playing together for over half a season already.
THE BAD, Which every player has,
Doesn’t do well In ISO Offense, I think he’s more of a transition player and up tempo guy(((which the offense did change when joe went down, to his favor))). Where he has alot of opportunity to drive and/or back down and score. Alot of the time last year the ball came to him late in the shot clock and caused him to shoot the ball last year in bad situations. Also, in these situations the lane looked crowded, and actually i’ll say it, he’d probably had a better chance shooting the open J.
NOT a JUMPSHOOTER. but that doesn’t mean he has a bad shot. When he shoots from about15ft and in he’s average or just ok, but the closer he gets to that 3pt line, ewwwff. Can get ugly at times.
SHOT SELECTION, MAYBE his greatest weakness. I don’t mind him taking the J if it’s late in the shotclock and he’s open, THATS A GIVEN (you gotta shoot it). What we all hate, is the shot early or half way in the shot clock when he’s not a STRONG jump shooter. But it’s questionable bc late last year he making alot of his jumpers.
AT TIMES, DOESN”T PLAY TO HIS STRENGTHS. QUESTIONABLE DECISION MAKING.
Ken, i agree with you on this alot. I just don’t know what’s going on though. Is it a ego? something on or off the court? Maturity?
Maybe he just needs to harness a mental maturity and learn how to be locked in nightly for each game.
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
12:28 pm
Just curious, Rod, vava74, and Nejah, if Horford plays bout the same or better tomorrow against Indiana, esp if Josh doesn’t play, would your feelings be the same towards him? or would the respond be, “well its only been 2 games he played decent, dont get carried away.” Ok then, lets say that Josh is out about 5 games cause we are playing really well w/o him and that Drew wants him back really healthy and Horford has stepped up GREATLY in his absent, how would your feelings THEN be towards Horford?
Just Joe
November 6th, 2012
12:55 pm
MsDee….I’m not on your list, but much like Matt Ryan, Horford will have to impact a playoff series before he changes my mind. He’s a complimentary player in my book (same as Teague). Best used as the 3rd best player on his team. Can Matt Ryan win a playoff game without a top-ranked defense? Can Al Horford win a playoff series as the 1st or 2nd best player on his team? It’s a skill thing with both players. Ryan’s questionable arm strength. Horford’s questionable low post skills (both sides of the court). Can their strengths outweigh their weaknesses?
doc
November 6th, 2012
12:56 pm
yup o’b exactly. lack of studious effort early in career to become a better qb by his own admission is showing without the young athletic body he has. still mercurial but his passing has deteriorate as well and his ball was always hard to catch. heavy.
it is not all on mv7 but he isnt the creator and miracle worker to put it on his shoulders and do it all now. unbelievable athlete in his prime. unfortunately, he has other limitations now. anyone expecting the young mv7 is going to get burned.
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
12:57 pm
Shams Charania: After a strong workout, the #Hawks have yet to indicate Kyrylo Fesenko if they’ll sign him, but the big man tells me ATL remain an option. Twitter @ShamsCharania
vava74
November 6th, 2012
12:57 pm
MsDee,
Rod presented the exact same argument that I did. He is 100% right and you are simply not abiding to your own words to support both players.
If Josh is an horror movie, I believe I must now start watching more horror movies (which is not my treat at all).
Specially when that horror movie ends up with us getting in the playoffs with a 40-26 record like we had last year.
Maybe a little bit of memory refreshing is in order:
2011/12
March G19 mpg 37:12 FG9.4 FGA20.7 FG%45.4 FT4.2 FTA5.8 FT%72.1 Oreb2.3 Dreb7.8 Rpg10.1 Apg4.5 Stl1.5 Blk1.4 PPG 23.9
April G12 mpg 31:36 FG7.9 FGA15.8 FG%50.3 FT2.7 FTA3.8 FT%69.6 Oreb2.1 Dreb6.7 Rpg8.8 Apg3.8 Stl1.0 Blk1.3 PPG 18.7
This is how Josh finished the year. April stats are mostly on account of fewer minutes.
I have omitted the 3Pts attempts and % because that is Josh’s Achilles’ eel.
Even though he is PF I have no problem with a guy shooting 45.4% from the floor on 20.7 FG. No problem at all, specially when he is attempting 5.8 FTs, collecting 10 rebounds per game, handing out 4.5 assists and providing quality D, both positional and from the point of view of retrieving or breaking opponents possessions with 2.9 steals and blocks.
PLEASE GIVE ME THIS HORROR MOVIE DAY IN DAY OUT!!!!!
KevinM
November 6th, 2012
1:01 pm
Rod you are right, and yet he still gets on an all-star team by the coaches. You know JSmoove is questioning why he hasn’t been there, and last year was his best shot at doing so.
This year, its Al, Smoove and Lou with chances to get there. No way Teague gets there even with DRose out.
Give Him the JJ Superstar Treatment
November 6th, 2012
1:06 pm
Vick has a cannon. Always has and always will. With that bieng said, outsoide of philly’s runniing back and vick. who do they have? #TheySuck
Give Him the JJ Superstar Treatment
November 6th, 2012
1:07 pm
Vick has a cannon. Always has and always will. With that bieng said, outside of philly’s runniing back and vick. who do they have? #TheySuck
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
1:20 pm
Just Joe,
Thx for your insights as well. I agree with ya but I never said Horford should be a #1 opt but IF I had to choose between the 2, I would choose Horford. If Horford can continue to get the ball in the post and score like he did against OKC, he WILL eventually demand a double-team, leaving scorers like Korver, Morrow, Harris, and HOPEFULLY Jenkins open for their shots. Josh shouldnt be a #1 opt cause he complains and cry too much. If things dont go his way, maybe a miss call from the refs or a block shot on him or a TO, or a low % shot attempt, we are SCREWED and will sure to end the game with a ‘L’ if a bucket was needed and we didnt get it.
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
1:25 pm
Ok vava74,
All those stats and what nots are EXCELLENT, just like I posted much earlier with all his accomplishments..But nothing will change the fact that the Hawks will FOREVER look BETTER as a TEAM w/o HIM on the floor. PLAIN AND SIMPLE..IM JUST SAYING…
vava74
November 6th, 2012
1:27 pm
40-26 record, with 55 games without Al
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
1:29 pm
What I see that u guys arent getting from me is that, I now Josh can ball, I REALLY DO, I just want us to LOOK GOOD while doing it and WE DONT!! If we can WIN w/o Josh while LOOKING GOOD doing it, then I dont mind trading him. That’s all IM SAYING. WE CAN WIN W/O HIM!! Now, im good right now on this…CV, any other news to report??? PLEASE!!
Rod from College Park
November 6th, 2012
1:29 pm
Just curious, Rod, vava74, and Nejah, if Horford plays bout the same or better tomorrow against Indiana, esp if Josh doesn’t play, would your feelings be the same towards him?
We have seen what this team could do for a full season without Horford. We have not seen what we can do for a full season without Josh. I would be willing to bet that our winning percentage would be much lower without Josh for a season. Mainly because we have a suitable backup for Horford, one that actually put up similar numbers to Horford in his time out (I am not saying that Zaza is better than Horford). We have no suitable replacement on this roster to replace what Josh does offensively and especially defensively. One or two games never tell a story. Marvin lookd like a great player for one or two games out of every season. There is a reason that they have season stats.
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
1:34 pm
vava74, but did we LOOK GOOD, winning those 40 games?? We even looked GR8 w/o Josh the one game he missed in the playoff game against Boston. But we can agree to disagree…im OK with that!
Rod from College Park
November 6th, 2012
1:34 pm
“I just want us to LOOK GOOD while doing it and WE DONT!!”
That explains everything MsDee. Just like a woman. Style over substance. LOL
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
1:38 pm
LOL, there u go, Rod
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
1:43 pm
LOL, Im fine with that, I just choose Horford OVER Josh who can make with difference in what this team can really do. With Drew OFF surrounding the outside shooters we have while having someone like Horford posting in the post like he did in OKC, and having Lou close us out our games in the 4th Q, I can TRULY see this team winning 40+ games w/o Josh on the team..THATS JUST MY WAY OF SEEING IT…that’s all!!
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
1:44 pm
CV…where are ya??? PLEASE!!!
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
1:49 pm
Can we be in the ECF w/o Josh…NO!! Can we be in the ECF with the Josh of old…NO!! Can we be in the ECF with the Josh who PLAYS WITHIN HIS STRENGTHS, POSTS OFTEN, REBOUNDS OFTEN, RUN THE FLOOR OFTEN AFTER GIVING THE BALL UP TO A PG, W/O COMPLAINING TO REFS, DREW, OR HIS TEAMMATES…………..ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
1:52 pm
I like Lou by the way. Did yall catch Lou getting in Josh’s face after he refused to throw the ball to Teague when he was taking the ball out of bounds in game 1? Actually, Lou was in Josh’s face several times that game. Finally someone who will get into Josh’s face and check this, JOSH WILL LISTEN TO!!
MaconBaby
November 6th, 2012
1:52 pm
I don’t like the idea of the team playing better without josh after one game. Zaza and Horford was a great matchup against Ibaka and Perkins. But, If the same lineup we used for okc was against a real big, like asik, it would have been game one all over again. With horford being silenced on the boards.
But something does have to change because Josh’s play sometimes is costing us a “W.” Either he improves the J, which he’s working on with new coach’s and Korver, or he gives up on it.
We need a Smoove intervention, Josh is addicted to the J.
MaconBaby
November 6th, 2012
1:57 pm
MsDee,
I caught that one too. I was LOVING IT. Never seen Josh respond that way. I’m hoping for a change. I read an article from Grantland. Josh has been seeking guidance from Rhondo and Garnett on how to lead a team. JOSH SMITH looking for help?
vava74
November 6th, 2012
1:59 pm
MsDee,
We won game 1 of the BOS series with Josh HEALTHY.
We were leading game 2 UNTIL Josh got INJURED and then the Hawks faded down the stretch.
We lost game 3 without Josh.
We then lost game 4, won game 5 and lost game 6 with Josh playing visibly diminished and even so HE LEAD THE HAWKS in rebounding and lead the Hawks in assists in games 4 and 5 (and cumulatively over the 3 games).
Astro Joe
November 6th, 2012
2:03 pm
We won game 5 (inspite of Josh).
What we learned is that other guys will step up when a key teammate is down. We learned that last season and got a glimpse of that the other night.
MaconBaby
November 6th, 2012
2:05 pm
vava74,
i’m with you on that, we wouldn’t have got as far without josh. He had the highest EFF rating on the team during the playoffs. guess who was below Al, josh, and even teague?
But MsDee is right about getting to the conference finals. Unless josh steps up, or even Al, to something close to a superstar, we have no chance.
vava74
November 6th, 2012
2:18 pm
Macon,
Sure, never said that Josh is perfect. Far from it.
But to claim that Horford is such a great thing after a dud like his performance against HOU enrages me.
Horford was SOFT against HOU and had an inexcusable performance, perfectly in line with the mind frame that he expressed in the interview to C-Viv.
Josh makes bad decisions frequently but he is never soft, far from it.
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
2:26 pm
vava74, so it is better to NOT be soft BUT make bad decisions?? What advantage would we have in THAT??
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
2:28 pm
Oops I forgot to add something u said…”so it is better to NOT be soft BUT make bad decisions ‘frequently’, as u put it?????
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
2:33 pm
Heck, from THAT statement RIGHT THERE is what I was trying to prove to Najeh, Rod from CP and u about why Josh will not be an AllStar, “Josh makes bad decisions frequently.”
In case u didnt know, Rod from CP, the reason I mention Josh not being an AllStar so much is b/c HE is the one who talks about it ALL THE TIME. HE is the one that has been trying to prove a point every since he has been in the league..and for him to STILL not see what he NEEDS to change and/or improve on to become one is MIND BOBBLING!!
MaconBaby
November 6th, 2012
3:06 pm
I would take josh over Al. HYPATHETICALLY
Al is too rigid and mechanical in the post (not quick off his first step to pass his defender). Good defenders like Noah and Bass, stop or force a turnover against him pretty well. His only consistent offensive game is his mid range. And has shown signs of softenss in the past.
Josh in the post has a mean hook and good footwork to get around his guy.
As for the mid range, i can live with with since josh has a consistent defense, strong presence in the paint, and leaping ability.
But would the team be better off with one gone over the other. NO. They play great together. The make plays together in transition. Its one of the funnest thing to watch is see a pf take a ball down court like a pg and alley oop it straight to your center. They just haven’t had a chance to show that.
Al needs to step up his defense, for sure. Josh needs to make better decisions and play the post. But when i think about it. they are the perfect duo. Josh has the post moves and Al has the Jumper. Josh post up, if he gets doubled by al’s defender and now al’s wide open for mid ranger or a dunk.
MaconBaby
November 6th, 2012
3:12 pm
I’ve yelled about so many times before though, but i finally got to see it in that OKC game. Give Al more touch’s for a mid range shot.
I was so sick of Joe hogging to ball for a contested DEEP midrange shot. I think Now al is finally gonna get those touches this year.
Ken Strickland
November 6th, 2012
3:14 pm
MSDEE-These JSMITH NUT HUGGERS are so out of touch with reality they can’t grasp the utter stupidity of their own position. They’re using the limited 2gm sample size as a way of dismissing or discounting the facts presented on the Horford/Josh comparison.
Yet, most of these same clowns had no problem bashing Horford for not scoring more pts and getting only 5 rebounds, and this was after only (1)ONE gm. WHAT ABOUT THAT SAMPLE SIZE?
MaconBaby
November 6th, 2012
3:18 pm
Al really needs to start putting him in that position to receive the ball like garnett does. I”m originally a c’s fan turn hawk. But i watch em when they’re on tnt. Garnet hangs off around the paint. Making it look like he’s trying to get the pass in the paint, but then backs right off when his defender comes to stop rondo.
But thats gonna require teague to be more consistent finisher in the lane so help def will come.
doc
November 6th, 2012
3:24 pm
too simple a concept and doesnt fit with the agenda aj but i hear ya.
MaconBaby
November 6th, 2012
3:29 pm
Ken,
That is an oxymoron statement. EVERYONE here is bashing players based on 2 games. INCLUDING you. If this is a new year and season and we’ve only played 2 games, when what SAMPLE SIZE ARE YOU PULLING FROM?
Najeh Davenpoop
November 6th, 2012
3:33 pm
“They’re using the limited 2gm sample size as a way of dismissing or discounting the facts presented on the Horford/Josh comparison.
Yet, most of these same clowns had no problem bashing Horford for not scoring more pts and getting only 5 rebounds, and this was after only (1)ONE gm. WHAT ABOUT THAT SAMPLE SIZE?”
I can’t speak for others, but I was using that one game to talk about Horford playing badly in that game (which he did, and he would likely admit it). You, on the other hand, are using two games to draw general conclusions about one player being better than the other. That is the difference.
Ken Strickland
November 6th, 2012
3:35 pm
I wish JSmith would take a page from book of Ivan. IJohnson allowed his temperment, lack of maturity and/or focus to interfer with him becoming a fulltime NBA player. Josh is allowing his temperment, lack of maturity and/or focus to get in the way of him becoming an Allstar, which he desperately covets.
In the last gm we all saw Ivan smile at a bad call by the ref. In the past that call probably would have set him off, but he’s learned how to deal with it in a mature and beneficial way. After 9 yrs in the league, and after it’s cost him what he seems to want as much as anything, he’s still taking the same illadvised approach. It doesn’t seem as if he’s learned a doggone thing.
This team could easily become a top 2 Eastern Conference team if Josh would just grow up and harness his yet untapped potential. If that happens, he and Horford would form an unstoppable duo. I wonder if LDrew still intends on starting Korver at SF against Lebron.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 6th, 2012
3:36 pm
Put it this way — if I was using small sample sizes the way you do, I would have said “Al is a terrible rebounder” (which is plainly false) as opposed to “Al is rebounding really bad in this game” (which was true).
MaconBaby
November 6th, 2012
3:41 pm
thank you Najeh
I’m done with his comparison
MsDee
November 6th, 2012
3:54 pm
Tell em’ KenS!!
Ken Strickland
November 6th, 2012
3:56 pm
DAVENPOOP-Look at their career MPG, FGA, FG%, 3P FGA, and 3P FG% that I posted and tell me what general conclusions were drawn? If you’d bother to look at the facts rather than defending your assumptions, you’d see that those 2 gm stats pretty much represent their career differences.
And I never said one player was better than the other. I only pointed out that Horford was more mature, efficient, and offensively versatile, while Josh was a better overall DEF player. The rest is nothing more than an assumption on your part.
I used those 2 gms to show how much more efficient Horford was as a scorer than Josh, but you’ve chosen to misrepresent. Horford is definitely a more efficient scorer, while Josh is a volume scorer, which is evidenced by the 2 gm shooting stats, as well as their career shooting stats. If you continue trying to bend light, it will only limit how far ahead you can see.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 6th, 2012
4:04 pm
“I only pointed out that Horford was more mature, efficient, and offensively versatile”
FG% says nothing about who is more offensively versatile. That is why I brought up Tyson Chandler. Under your logic, Chandler is the most efficient and offensively versatile scorer in the league. Stats mean nothing when they are taken out of context. Josh gets more shot attempts than Al because he is more capable of creating shots for himself than others. And at this point, nobody has come up with a stat that encompasses this well.