Atlanta Hawks: Roster breakdown
Vivlamore reporting from Hawks practice. Here is the roster breakdown story for Tuesday’s print edition of the AJC.
Less than a week remains before NBA rosters must be trimmed to a maximum of 15 players by Monday. The Hawks brought 19 players into training camp and the roster now stands at one over the limit. It is possible the team will go into the regular season with fewer than the maximum, allowing management flexibility to make an early-season trade or signing.
Here is a look at how the roster is shaping up prior to the Nov. 2 regular-season opener.
Roster size
The Hawks will have at least 13 players on their roster. Only 13 will be active for games. They have guaranteed contracts with 11 veterans and first-round draft pick John Jenkins. Second-round pick Mike Scott has a partially guaranteed contract. His contract becomes fully guaranteed if he is still on the roster Jan. 10.
Of keeping all 13 guarantees on the roster head coach Larry Drew said, “That is pretty set.”
Drew said he and general manager Danny Ferry have yet to decide on how many players they will keep.
“For me, and I’ve done it both ways,” Drew said of staying at or below the maximum. “We’ve had 13 and we’ve kept two spots open. I’ve had 14 and we’ve kept one. Or we’ve kept 15 guys. It’s a matter of looking at what we feel is going to be the best for our club. We’ve got some guys in here who are fighting for a roster spot. Guys I really like. After this is all said and done we’ll sit down with management and make a decision.”
Three for one
If the Hawks keep 15 players that leaves Anthony Tolliver, Damion James and James Anderson competing for the two remaining spots. Tolliver (6-foot-8) and James (6-7) give the Hawks options at the forward position. Anderson (6-6) is a guard, a position the Hawks have depth. Defensive ability, and how quickly each learns schemes, may well decide who stays.
Stepping up
James has impressed with his play during exhibition games. He has appeared in five games, including two starts, and has averaged 7.4 points and 7.0 rebounds. He came off the bench in Saturday’s win over Dallas and had 10 points and seven rebounds in less than 17 minutes.
“I think I’ve been doing pretty good the whole preseason,” James said. “I’m going to continue to play the way I play. If you play the way you are supposed to play, good things will happen.”
In six exhibitions, Tolliver has averaged 8.0 points and 3.7 rebounds. Anderson, in five games, has averaged 1.8 points and 0.8 rebounds.
Going small
In the numerous offseason moves made by Ferry, the Hawks became a smaller team than in the recent past. It’s an issue, especially on the defensive end, that the team will have to overcome.
“We might just be a little undersized,” Josh Smith said. “We were undersized before but we are very undersized now. That shouldn’t be an issue. We have a lot of feisty and competitive people on this team who hate to lose. I think that will outweigh the so-called decreases that this team has.”
Guards
The Hawks consider their three speedy guards, all capable of playing the point, an asset. Jeff Teague returns with Devin Harris and Lou Williams added to the mix. Harris and Williams, and perhaps eventually Teague, can also play shooting guard. Each are an option to replace Joe Johnson.
The Hawks added a number of long-range shooters at the position in Kyle Korver, DeShawn Stevenson, Anthony Morrow and Jenkins.
Forwards
Smith will return as the power forward. Ivan Johnson and Scott will be backups. Johnson can play center if pressed into action. Korver and Stevenson may see time at small forward.
“That gives us some flexibility from the standpoint that if we need to adapt and make some minor adjustments with our lineup we have the ability to do that,” Drew said.
Centers
A healthy Al Horford will start at center. He will be backed up by Zaza Pachulia and Johan Petro. There will be times when Drew wants a bigger lineup that Pachulia will play center, Horford power forward and Smith small forward.
Bench
The starting lineup is to be determined at shooting guard and small forward. It appears that Harris and Stevenson will initially fill those positions based on exhibition games. However, Drew stresses no decisions have been made and the lineup likely will change based on matchups.
The coach said he will sit down with each player this week to discuss his role. He wants to avoid any confusion.
“So everybody will be clear,” Drew said. “So there won’t be any guess work about ‘What am I supposed to do? What do you want me to do?’ We’ll eliminate that.”
- Chris Vivlamore
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310 comments Add your comment
MsDee
October 24th, 2012
12:34 pm
Just Joe
“I don’t think we need to see Josh feeding Al in the post. Reversing those roles makes more sense.”
Now why would THAT make more sense when Josh acts like he is alergic to being in the post??? Both Josh AND Horford need to be fed the ball in the post, but Drew just isnt that kind of coach that demands his BIG men to post down low and have plays run to them in the post. I bet if we had a qualified coach leading this team, both guys would have stellar career numbers this season.
Slimjr
October 24th, 2012
12:35 pm
Just Joe, imho one of the worst kind of persons to employ is one who has one foot into retirement if his job is one that affects many others.. [Sund] reminds me of that type of employee..
MsDee
October 24th, 2012
12:36 pm
Astro Joe
October 24th, 2012
12:37 pm
MsDee, I noticed that no one challenged the part of your equation that had Josh on the perimeter.
Lir(Dominican)
October 24th, 2012
12:39 pm
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/10/23/ricks-tips-top-10-fantasy-centers/ one for the haterz
vava74
October 24th, 2012
12:40 pm
MsDee,
I would venture in saying that you are beyond dead wrong.
My recollection is that on or around 7 out 10 Horford’s buckets in the paint were coming out of passes by Josh.
Josh is a WILLING passer with a sole exception: on fast breaks, where he is neither here nor there. Sometimes he tries too much to make his own play, sometimes he tries to make passes which are too difficult, sometimes he does not try anything and just has a major brain f@rt.
Astro Joe
October 24th, 2012
12:50 pm
My recollection is that on or around 7 out 10 Horford’s buckets in the paint were coming out of passes by Josh.
Wouldn’t that imply that Josh was averaging at least 7 assists?
MsDee
October 24th, 2012
1:16 pm
vava74,
“My recollection is that on or around 7 out 10 Horford’s buckets in the paint were coming out of passes by Josh.”
Well, your “recollection” is SO WRONG AND MISGUIDED!!
EXACTLY, Astro Joe..vava74 is just making post and no sense
corporate tv ball sux
October 24th, 2012
1:17 pm
former st.louis hawk point guard slater martin. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/onlineathens/obituary.aspx?n=slater-martin&pid=160519173#fbLoggedOut
MsDee
October 24th, 2012
1:21 pm
vava74,
U still have YET to answer my question,
Those passes u talking about Josh throwing were for fast break, quick passes to the basket, IM TALKING ABOUT THE PASSES GIVEN TO HIM ON THE POST! Now tell me when the last time Josh threw a pass to Horford on the post????
And PLEASE leave your “recollection” out of this cause THAT WOULD THEN BE DEAD WRONG….”7 out 10 Horford’s buckets in the paint were coming out of passes by Josh???” Yea right!!
The Truth
October 24th, 2012
1:24 pm
Entertaining read previewing the Hawks: Enjoy
http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2012/10/24/the-hardwood-paroxysm-2012-2013-season-preview-the-atlanta-hawks/
Buddy Grizzard
October 24th, 2012
1:58 pm
“Now tell me when the last time Josh threw a pass to Horford on the post????”
Josh throws entry passes to Al all the time. When Al had all those 4th quarter baskets in Game 6, it was Josh’s passing that set up more than one. I don’t know about 7 out of 10 but yes, Josh hits Al in the post. And yes, they should take turns being the entry passer and the post player. This is what’s great about having shooters to spread the floor because it is going to open up the middle for both of them to go to work.
MsDee
October 24th, 2012
2:05 pm
Buddy Grizzard,
There is a difference between entry passes and passes given to a post player actually posting up. Josh does NOT those Horford passes in the post “all the time” as u say. He throws, “entry passes” as u say.
Buddy Grizzard
October 24th, 2012
2:06 pm
“I actually think Buddy’s guy, Ezeli, is the one who appears to be the greater miss (more so than PJ3). He looks like a legit defensive big man in the very, very early stages of his career.”
I haven’t had a chance to catch Ezeli in the preseason. He must look pretty good if you think he’s a bigger miss than PJ3 who is averaging like 13ppg in the preseason.
Buddy Grizzard
October 24th, 2012
2:08 pm
MsDee you’re going to see a lot of both players passing to each other all season… stay tuned! And I think Al is going to surprise you with his effort to post up this season, although I don’t see any major technical improvements (i.e. new moves).
MsDee
October 24th, 2012
2:08 pm
Correction::
Entry passes ARE the same as post passes, MY MISTAKE, AND I CAN AMENT TO MAKING A MISTAKE, but that still doesnt change the fact that Josh does NOT make post passes/entry passes to Horford, “all the time” as u put it. He make fast break / cutting passes to the basket to Horford. NEVER POST PASSES
Buddy Grizzard
October 24th, 2012
2:09 pm
Josh wants to win. Al wants to win. Lou wants to win. Joe and Marvin want to play golf. Josh has no problem passing to a team mate he knows is playing his ass off to get that W.
Just Joe
October 24th, 2012
2:09 pm
Slim…I agree. Sund was an awful hire from the fans’ point of view. However, he was the perfect “corporate” man for the job. The owners wanted control of this franchise, and Rick Sund was the guy that didn’t mind taking the heat for their moves. Sund’s job was to put a playoff team on the floor while keeping this team out of the luxury tax. When Sund went just in to the tax last year, he had to sell another draft pick to make that money back. Fans will hate Rick Sund, while the ASG (and maybe even other GM’s) will appreciate his body of work.
Buddy Grizzard
October 24th, 2012
2:10 pm
Have to disagree MsDee but I’ll have to find examples later… lunch over
northcyde
October 24th, 2012
2:13 pm
I need to break out the Synergy to see all of these entry passes to Al in the post. Because my gut instinct is that MsDee is right. Josh threw the ball to Al on fast breaks, not within the set offense.
I’m sure that Josh did it a little, but not 7 out of 10 times on Al post scores.
Yeah, let me put up Synergy and look at Josh’s 2010 – 11 assists right quick. Looking at last year’s may be too small of a sample size.
MsDee
October 24th, 2012
2:13 pm
Buddy Grizzard,
If u say u have actually seen Josh ON THE WING pass the ball down to Horford WHILE posting up, yea, i guess we have to disagree cause u must be seeing another team cause Josh is NEVER on Horford’s side of the court to bounce a pass to Horford while he is on the post.
MsDee
October 24th, 2012
2:18 pm
Buddy Grizzard,
“Josh wants to win. Al wants to win. Lou wants to win. Joe and Marvin want to play golf. Josh has no problem passing to a team mate he knows is playing his ass off to get that W.”
This statement is VERY VERY TRUE, but when Josh decides to make plays OUTSIDE OF THE PLAYS ALREADY IN THE MINES OF THE OTHER 4 PLAYERS ON THE COURT, he then take matters into his own hands which cause Horford to not be in position to post or bang for the ball cause Horford nor anybody else on the court knows exactly what Josh is about to do..heck, Josh doesnt always know what he is about to do..he just does things on the fly.
MsDee
October 24th, 2012
2:19 pm
And plays like that will ALWAYS keep Josh off the ALLSTAR list. No matter how great his numbers are at that point in the season. Josh needs to learn SELF-CONTROL!!
northcyde
October 24th, 2012
2:20 pm
And just to let some of you know. When viewing clips of assists, I can see who Josh passed it to, and in what situation. I’m looking at the 2010 – 11 season right now. And this will cover BOTH regular season and playoffs.
Just Joe
October 24th, 2012
2:23 pm
I’m not even sure why we would ask Josh to throw entry passes in to the low post. Joe, Teague, Hinrich, sure. If I’ve got Josh facing the basket with the ball in his hands, I’m hoping he’s getting ready to take his man off the dribble, which means Al needs to be on the other side of the floor. What happened most of the time though, is that Josh took the jumper instead.
northcyde
October 24th, 2012
2:48 pm
OK . . . I counted 43 assists from Smith to Horford in 2010 – 11 season
17 came via Horford “cutting” to the basket . . . although on some of these plays, it was simply Josh driving into the paint, then finding an open Horford for the dunk or layup.
15 came via “transition”, with Josh usually dribbling once, then throwing a long pass to Horford for the easy score
8 came via a “spot up jumper”, with Josh either making the extra pass to a wide open Horford, or Josh passing out of a drive or from the post, out to Horford for a midrange jumper
3 came from “post ups” by Horford, by receiving an entry pass from Smith, and Horford makes a move to score
***************************
So this wasn’t as dramatic as I thought it would be with Josh mainly feeding Al in transition. And those “cut” assists Josh threw to Al came with Smith being on the outside and finding a cutting to the basket Al.
Smith has always been a good high post passer. But when people sag off of him to prevent the easy cut opportunity by Horford, Smith is left wide open for an 18 footer.
With 3 PGs on the team now, we’ll see how much of Josh running the offense in the high post we’ll see.
I will say this though. If you count Horford’s cut scores ( in which he is in the paint or barely outside it when he receives the ball ) and add them to his post up scores, that means that 20 of Josh’s 43 total assists to Horford came with Josh “throwing the ball on the inside”.
cp
October 24th, 2012
2:53 pm
Jenkins wasn’t even considered the best NBA prospect on his team. I hope he ends up as a solid player but I wont be shocked if a few years down the road he will be another name in a long list of “the Hawks passed up on _____ to take”".
I’m ready for the season to start. One thing I hope to see an improvement with LD is feel for the game. Too often he would leave guys on the court too long or pull guys too quick. There were times last year were Marvin would come out and score a quick 6 or so points but get pulled. Then it would take LD forever to get him back in the game. This also happened with Teague on occasion.
Slimjr
October 24th, 2012
3:08 pm
We, obviously not [Sund] may regret not drafting PJ3! The 6′11″ small forward with skills to match!
But so will 26 other teams… This guy is special… Jenkins, we will see….
Astro Joe
October 24th, 2012
3:16 pm
I haven’t had a chance to catch Ezeli in the preseason. He must look pretty good if you think he’s a bigger miss than PJ3 who is averaging like 13ppg in the preseason.
Not based on points as much as based on a long-term Hawks need. And Ezeli looks like he could contribute immediately as a solid defensive center. I’m not really feeling like we need more offense on this roster (today or tomorrow) as much as we need someone to stop the opposition from scoring 105+ points/game. Generally speaking, quality centers are always harder to find than quality wing players.
Astro Joe
October 24th, 2012
3:19 pm
Josh wants to win. Al wants to win. Lou wants to win. Joe and Marvin want to play golf. Josh has no problem passing to a team mate he knows is playing his ass off to get that W.
So he doesn’t believe the PGs who can run a fast break infinitely better than he can want to win? Is that why he refuses to pass to them?
MsDee
October 24th, 2012
3:23 pm
Wow, excellent question, Astro Joe
i_am_soulstar
October 24th, 2012
3:24 pm
Speaking of Josh as an All-Star, I wonder if the change in all-star balloting will help his chances in the All-Star game. NBA’s allowing us to pick 3 undefined bigs instead of 2 forwards and one center. This link doesn’t stay, but assuming that Josh won’t get picked to start, I’m wondering if coaches will pick reserves in the same way.
On the other side, I wonder if Al Horford will still get picked since there’s no longer a center-only vote.
http://www.nba.com/2012/news/10/23/all-star-centers-ballot/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpts
Rod from College Park
October 24th, 2012
3:33 pm
“I need to break out the Synergy to see all of these entry passes to Al in the post. Because my gut instinct is that MsDee is right. Josh threw the ball to Al on fast breaks, not within the set offense.”
I saw the results, and really am not blaming either player as Ms. Dee is. Most of the time, Josh is not throwing to Al in the post #1, because Al has a very limited post game, and #2 because the plays that the coach called did not call for Josh to throw the ball to Al in the post. I can recall Al getting the ball in the post, and passing the ball like a hot potato, because the play called was not designed for him to post his man and score. Post moves are not Al’s forte, so why would the coach design plays for Al to try to take his man in the post. Makes no sense.
Slimjr
October 24th, 2012
3:35 pm
Josh will have to learn to trust his guards! Its part of the maturation process..If he wanted to do it all, he should have picked up Golf Club like Tiger Woods…
FYI ANDY REID is 12-0 coming of a by-week.. Oh the Humanity….
Rod from College Park
October 24th, 2012
3:45 pm
“So he doesn’t believe the PGs who can run a fast break infinitely better than he can want to win? Is that why he refuses to pass to them?”
He refuses to pass to them because Teague is not a great passer either, and for some strange reason our coaches, as well as our old and new GM have both said that Josh is special because of his ability to pass the ball and initiate the offense off the defensive glass. Maybe if LD, Woody, Sund, and Ferry would stop encouraging the bigs to bring the ball up the floor (Including Horford) then Josh would stop doing it. I guess some of us, especially you Astro Joe, know much more about the game of basketball than these guys do.
Astro Joe
October 24th, 2012
3:50 pm
Rod, I guess so, because it is pretty clear that he is a much better finisher than a fast break facilitator and he doesn’t have the handle to do both (dribble in traffic and finish). Next time I see an opening for GM or head coach on monster.com, I’ll be sure to apply for the gig.
Oh and the notion that he feels like he is a better option to lead a break than Teague is truly frightening. One thing not to believe that Teague can do it in a Jason Kidd fashion, quite another to choose yourself over Teague.
MsDee
October 24th, 2012
4:09 pm
Chris Vivlamore @ajchawks
About to go on 92.9 The Game to talk #Hawks.
Grandad
October 24th, 2012
4:23 pm
northcyde
I had to review to conversation before I could jump in.
You are the stat-Meister;
so I gladly yield to your synergy post above.
Accordingly:
I wish to enhance your point of view from my perspective
as a basketball proficient [n].
Josh & Al have chemistry; that is undeniable.
Both Josh plus Al look for each other;
a fact that goes overlooked on this blog.
Both are ” dandy ` passers ` !
Both are undersized bigs that see the floor, have speed and quickness,
can put the ball on the floor, yet are not *physical at the pt of attack.
*[in the traditional sense of a true low post Center / old school]
This Chemistry plus the speed & quickness has been
grossly underutilized by both Wdsn as well as LD.
As an offensive tactician;
I can tell you with certainty that the High / Low attack;
(particularly the high-low feed, Astro Joe) is impossible to defend
when executed properly.
Grandad speaks
vava74
October 24th, 2012
4:24 pm
thank you northcyde,
You were coming from a prejudicious angle but ended up proving my point.
In addition to what you say, you must take into consideration that so few of Josh’s assists are post ups by Horford simply because he does not post up.
You would need to check how many of Al’s post ups generated assists and who assisted on those plays in order to determine if Josh was or was not a guy perfectly wiling to make entry passes in the post.
Also, if a player makes entry passes to a player posting up, that means that the player passing the rock is in the perimeter.
Since Josh has a lot of assist to cutters and spot shooters, that means tht he is in the low post, so unable to “feed the post” himself.
For the the stats which are important are the assists to a cutting Horford and the fast break assists.
Those price that Josh passes to Al willing and consistently so he can score in the paint, which includes both category of baskets mentioned.
Astro Joe
October 24th, 2012
4:27 pm
Grandad, I think you menat “Just Joe” who accurately suggested Horford feed Josh in the post. If they double, Josh has very good passing skills to one of the 3-4 above avergae shooters who will be on the floor with him. And if not, he should be able to convert over most defending PFs. Makes sense to me. And with the likelihood that we’ll be walking the ball up the floor after the opposing team converts a basket, I would love to see that used quite often in the half-court sets (along with pick & roll plays). I’m done with this 5-man attack nonsense.
Grandad
October 24th, 2012
4:29 pm
There is a reason we drafted JohnJenkins.
Let it play out with our [2013/14] Coach;
before everyone makes a snap judgement.
vava74
October 24th, 2012
4:29 pm
For me
Those prove
Sorry for the typos
TMACfan
October 24th, 2012
4:34 pm
Some Hawks love.
http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2012/10/24/the-tbj-2012-13-nba-season-prediction-countdown-9-7/
Slimjr
October 24th, 2012
4:38 pm
Grandad I don’t mean to be a jack-azz but the Hawks drafted that 7′4″ giant Priest Lauderdale for a reason. heh heh heh
Grandad
October 24th, 2012
4:40 pm
AJ
My most sincere apology, ` twas in fact Just Joe,
to whom I was referring.
Although, Do not get down on 5 man basketball just yet.
Every aspect of the game is incorporated into:
*5 man
*motion
*princeton
*etc
Including the Pick and Roll & especially the Post up game.
Remember;
“it`s not what the offense itself does … it`s what LD emphasizes.
Just Joe
October 24th, 2012
4:42 pm
Now somebody figure out if a Teague/Harris/James/Smith/Horford lineup can score efficiently in the half court. What’s your sets? Can we operate within that limited spacing given that I’m not even sure you can call Teague & Harris “average” 3-pt shooters?
Grandad
October 24th, 2012
4:47 pm
Slimjr
Do not ever worry about being a a ” jack-azz “;;;;;
when responding to me.
As I am a self proclaimed Jack-Ass ! [`tis my nature]
Slimmer :::::
Now In Response To Your Response :::::
Danny Ferry -did not- draft Priest Lauderdale.
I believe in Mr Ferry and the fact – he has a plan !
Just Joe
October 24th, 2012
4:47 pm
Same question above goes for those wanting a starting lineup of Teague/Harris/Smith/Horford/Pachulia.
Besides the fact that it brings Petro in to play, how will the offense work?
Last year, we saw LD go with Teague/Hinrich/Joe/Josh/ZaZa because having the shooters on the wings made his offense flow.
Can LD adapt his offense to account for a non-shooter like James or Josh on the wing?
Rod from College Park
October 24th, 2012
4:50 pm
“Oh and the notion that he feels like he is a better option to lead a break than Teague is truly frightening. One thing not to believe that Teague can do it in a Jason Kidd fashion, quite another to choose yourself over Teague.”
Not saying I agree or disagree, but I have heard both coaches and both GM praise Josh for that ability. During the regular season last year Teague averaged 4.9 apg, and 4.2apg during the playoffs while Josh averaged 3.9apg during the regular season and 4.8apg during the playoffs. Based on those numbers, can we really say that Teague distrubutes the ball better than Josh? He did not in the playoffs, when it mattered.
Grandad
October 24th, 2012
4:51 pm
Just Joe
If it were me;
I would have Jenkins, Morrow or KKorver on the floor with James.,
depending on the match-up at the [2].
Such is the beauty of flexibility.