Atlanta Hawks: Third straight preseason loss has record at 1-3

Vivlamore reporting.

Just a quick blog with some notes about last night’s 102-98 preseason loss to the Pacers before I head to practice this afternoon.

* As I reported Monday, Devin Harris did make his preseason debut against Indiana. The guard was in the starting lineup and scored 11 points with five rebounds and two assists in 23 minutes.

* The rest of the starting lineup was Kyle Korver, Anthony Tolliver, Zaza Pachulia and Jeff Teague.

* Josh Smith and Al Horford were inactive. Both played in Memphis on the first leg of the trip. Carldell Johnson, Johan Petro and DeShawn Stevenson (knee) did not play as coaches decisions.

* The Hawks were held to 38.7 percent from the field (36 of 93). Lou Williams (18 points),Tolliver (14), Korver (13),  Ivan Johnson (12), Harris (11) and Teague (11) were all double-digit scorers.

* The Pacers shot 44.6 percent from the field (33 of 74), making three less field goals in 19 fewer shots than the Hawks.

* The Hawks have allowed more than 100 points in each of the past three losses.

* The Hawks had 19 fast-break points and allowed the Pacers only seven.

* The Hawks shot 37.5 percent from 3-point range (9 of 24).

I will report on what coach Larry Drew and the players had to said about the game following practice. I would imagine that defense will again be at issue. We’ll also look ahead to Thursday’s home game against the Hornets. The Hornets game has been added to the radio broadcast of 680 AM. They will air the final three preseason games.

Finally, I would expect another round of roster cuts at some point, maybe even later today. The Hawks probably want to play their final preseason games with a roster close to what they will carry in the regular season.

- Chris Vivlamore

THE LATEST NEWS

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* Harris could make debut Tuesday

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* Williams kept eye and ear on Hawks

* Three players vying for two roster spots

* Hawks serve it up at The Varisty

* Practice report: Defense, cuts and tweets

Follow me on Twitter at ajchawks

81 comments Add your comment

G-Dot

October 17th, 2012
9:29 am

G-Dot

October 17th, 2012
9:31 am

I think Thursday we will see the actual lineup Coach Drew plans on using in the regular season. I’m thinking:
PG – Teague
SG – Harris
SF- Korver
PF – Smith
C – Horford

HoosierHawk

October 17th, 2012
9:42 am

I think if you are starting Korver, you have to start Stevenson. That way, Korver guards the 2 if it is a big physical 3 and Stevenson guards the 3. That way Harris and Williams off the bench is a very potent combo. Or Teague and Williams off the bench.

O'Brien

October 17th, 2012
10:04 am

Despite LD’s cry for defense, I think the Hawks will 1) consistently try and win games 108-104 instead of 96-92 and 2) Will be top 10 in the league in 3-pt FGA per game and 3) will die by the jumper

Ken Strickland

October 17th, 2012
10:14 am

When JJ decided to go ISO, everyone had to clearout to provide enough space so he could pound the ball until he got his defender leaning. Then so he would go by him only to end up shooting a floater rather than finishing at the rim. He seldom dished once he got into the lane because everyone had cleared out to the perimeter.

With the ball being primarily in Teague’s, Harris’ and Williams’ hands, there will be no need for clearouts when they decide to penetrate. That means Josh, AL, Ivan, Zaza, and James can remain near the lane, or get into position close to it, to receive pass offs when these players decide to penetrate. I don’t know about everyone else, but I seeing both OFF and DEF improvement each gm.

They might not be where they want to be at this point, like holding their opponents to 41% shooting, but the overall DEF effort is improving, as evidenced by our improved rebounding, steals and turnovers. We did an excellent job of rebounding against a much taller and bigger team, even though we were without our 2 top rebounders(Josh and AL).

We actually lost last nights gm because we allowed them to get several very key 4th quarter OFF rebounds. I saw 2 put backs, and 3 that ended up in FTs attempts, with 1 of them being an and 1. If we had secured just 2 of those rebounds, we likely win the gm. Tyler Hansbrough was the player who did the most damage in that area.

jlewis

October 17th, 2012
10:58 am

When has Jeff Teague penetrated and dished to anybody? Besides Al and Josh, this team is a bunch of cast offs, you cant expect anything other than what they are, they will not improve. Blame JJ for ISO, that was the offense, LD sent no cutters, when JJ did drive there were no shooters to dish to.

The roster was flawed before and it still is, to many players have similar skills, the guards are small, and there is no threat in the post to open up the shooters, no one will leave Korver open, he has to play with great players to get shots.

The scapegoat is gone….and no franchise in their right mind will make Josh the face of it, he still hasnt grown up as a player or individual, as soon as things go south or he doesnt get to take the last shot, he will pout. Watch footage when he air-balled that last shot that was supposed to go to Joe, look at Al Horford’s face, like “dude, that wasnt the play, what are you doing”.

jlewis

October 17th, 2012
10:59 am

I was referring to the game against Boston.

Just Joe

October 17th, 2012
11:16 am

I would start Teague, Stevenson, Korver, Smith & Horford, and then start your guard rotations with LouWill & Harris at about the 6 minute mark. I think Stevenson should start the 1st & 3rd quarters (12-15 minutes a night) as long as he can hit his 3’s & defend.

This way as you start bringing in your scoring guards (Williams, Harris & Morrow), they’ll be matched up with the more physical (but offensively challenged) substitutes up front like James, Ivan & Pachulia.

Unfortunately, I don’t think John Jenkins gets much run until closer to mid-season. Maybe after a trade or a key injury has gone down.

Start the game focusing on Teague/Horford/Josh, and then as the other team starts making subs, run Harris/Williams at them while James/Ivan/Pachulia throw their bodies around.

Kelvin

October 17th, 2012
11:17 am

Third straight loss for the Hawks? We better get use to that. But I must say that I like the moves we have made thus far in dumping salary and unproductive players. We are headed in the right direction, but I don’t expect much from the Hawks this season.

Jesse

October 17th, 2012
11:20 am

It’ll be a rough season, but the future will be much better. Korver isn’t the SF of the future, and a defensive liability. Watch LD go offense defense substitution during the whole game, with Stevenson and Korver. That’d be hilarious.

MsDee

October 17th, 2012
11:25 am

I’m choosing to believe that Drew hasn’t implemented his “Princeton” offense yet cause I have yet to hear Chris V, Brandon Leak, or any follower of the Hawks mention any so call ball movement thus far, leaning me to conclude that he hasn’t finalize his complete roster yet. Which makes HUGE SENSE. WHY SHOW PLAYERS OUR PLAYS WHEN THEY WONT BE ON THE TEAM? Now once he has his final crew, THEN when we shall see EXACTLY what Drew, Danny and all us Hawks fans has been waiting to see, and thats BALL MOVEMENT GALORE. If the vava74’s, the slimjr’s, and the steven a smith’s of this blog are expecting for all out wins and/or blow-outs at this point of the season when Drew is ONLY seeing who really wants those 2 final spots, then U ARE LIVING IN LALA LAND, (and I dont mean Melo’s wife).

I guess we want the best for our Hawks team that we as fans can be alittle too critical and strict but to be THAT hard on them right now being 1-3 in freakin PRESEASON with basically a WHOLE NEW TEAM, is just wayyyy toooo muchhhh!! In these past 3 games, they basically have had no offensive plays yet cause Drew is trying to get all these offensive-minded players to be more concern with defense!! There is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!! Yea, I know Horford is ready for offensive plays to now be included with practice but based on these last 3 games, defense needs to be in the minds of EVERYONE RIGHT NOW, offense is there, NOW BRING ON THE DEFENSE HAWKS!!

DS

October 17th, 2012
11:28 am

I think our starting lineup will be: Teague/Morrow/James/Smoove/Al with the intention of trading Morrow before February. I don’t think Stephenson wll get much playing time, let alone be a starter. If the starting lineup has Korver, then we know DFerry will try to trade Korver instead of Morrow. Just my opinion…

Melvin

October 17th, 2012
11:31 am

Can we really expect this team which doesn’t have much height or length to be a good defensive team? I think the Hawks may have to win with offensive shootouts versus defensive battles.

mfg

October 17th, 2012
11:32 am

this team may or may not win a lot, but, will be athletic, and interesting to watch.

glw

October 17th, 2012
11:33 am

I definitely agree that if you start Korver, you almost have to pair him with Stevenson. From the limited amount of the games i have saw this preseason, Korver is definintely a liability and teams will go right at him. At least if you have Stevenson in the game,on the wings you can let him check the slasher and let Korver check the shooter.

paian

October 17th, 2012
11:33 am

pacers won that game from all the free throws tbh

jgsbirds

October 17th, 2012
11:49 am

i watched the entire game on directv. i’m still not too pleased with the offense. i know we have a ton of shooters–but you can get a “good” outside shot or a “bad” outside shot–and last night ivan and zsa zsa took some very BAD jump shots. it’s time for drew to call a meeting and tell everyone who the shooters on this team are: rule number one if josh, ivan, pachulia shoot any thing over 15 feet they come out! there is no reason for these guys to be shooting those shots–pachulia and ivan shot it as if they were larry bird or something and early in the shot clock as well. korver definitely wasn’t afraid to let go last night either-i think he has to be a little more selective as well.

another problem i’ve always had with our hawks is that if a man gets it going–get him the ball. the first two times down the court last night korver hit jumpers–so if i were running the point–i would immediately run another play for korver, instead our point guard (teague) who i like a lot comes down and shoots a quick jumper…basketball is pretty simple folks, if you play smart you can win a lot of games in the nba–if you play dumb like we tend to do it’s hard to win.

i do like the makeup of the team–we are going to struggle a lot but i’ll still be watching! realistically i’m hoping for .500 but wouldn’t be surprised at all if we win between 30 and 35 games. i hope i’m wrong but after 4 preseason games i’m still watching the same mistakes: no offesive plays, no one in position to offensive rebounds, no boxing out, no extra passes, and a coach that continues to let these lazy things happen without any consequences!!!!

vava74

October 17th, 2012
11:57 am

if LD goes into day one with a line up of Teague, Harris, Korver, … he will be fired within 2 weeks.

So… let’s hope that he does start that line up :-D

vava74

October 17th, 2012
12:05 pm

MsDee,

How can you pair me with stephen a smith and slimjr?

Good grief! Not only you are the perpetual optimist, unable to distinguish between constructive criticism and pure unfiltered vitriol, you also hold grudges if someone attacks your “loved ones”… How womanly of you :-D

Would it improve my position if I told you that I am a fairly handsome 30 something? :-)

vava74

October 17th, 2012
12:08 pm

MsDee,

Why didn’t you include Big Ray on that list? Surely you have noticed that BR has came forward with exactly the same criticism about Horford that I did.

The Truth

October 17th, 2012
12:19 pm

Some excerpts about the game from Peachtreehoops.com:

“Anderson went scoreless in 12 minutes against Indiana and looks like he could be in some trouble as the Hawks get closer to cut day.

Other observations from Tuesday night’s loss:

Mike Scott got considerable playing time against the Pacers and finished with four points and five rebounds in 24 minutes but had a tough shooting day going 2-9.

Damion James played just under 12 minutes on Tuesday but led the Hawks in rebounding with eight. With each game I am growing more and more convinced that not only is James going to make this team but he is also going to receive some playing time.

Anthony Morrow and John Jenkins are two players that I am wondering where they will fit in the rotation once the regular season arrives. Morrow and Jenkins finished with two points each with Morrow going 1-3 and Jenkins 1-4 from the field.”

Yes agreed (at least) both Anderson and “Squeaky” will be cut (as if they don’t already know it).

Have our two rookies hit “the rookie wall” before the season started? I hope not but they’re playing “subpar-like” than the summer league. That’s expected to some degree but I’m sure LD is looking for signs in their basketball DNA that he can feel good about and leverage. On paper, they’re both building a case to join a D-league team to get more seasoning and exposure to a tougher defense than what they saw in college.

With an abundance of SGs and LD’s deployment of PGs at SG position, Anthony Morrow may find himself wearing suits often if he isn’t producing more than spotty inconsistent offense. He must find a way to impact the game other than a jump shot.

NCBravesFan

October 17th, 2012
12:21 pm

Folks – Horford & Smoove didn’t play last night. No need to freak out over losing by four to the Pacers on the road in preseason.

MsDee

October 17th, 2012
12:27 pm

jgsbirds,

Thats where having a smart experience coach comes in handy. When u see Korver, Morrow, Jenkins obviously hot, a smart coach will make sure those guys get the ball RIGHT back. Drew will say nor do anything about Josh, Teague, or even Lou taking matters into their own hands at a time when feeding the hot hand would be the smarter idea. You are very correct, “basketball is pretty simple folks, if you play smart you can win a lot of games in the nba–if you play dumb like we tend to do it’s hard to win.” RIGHT ON POINT!!

paian

October 17th, 2012
12:29 pm

@NCbravesfan

Ikr people being so negative when the main faces of the team were inactive.

Section 303

October 17th, 2012
12:38 pm

Kevin, I don’t agree with you at all. This is the Hawks 3rd straight loss to go 0-0. These games, as far as winning and losing, do not mean anything. I still think this team has a great shot at landing in the top 4 of the Eastern Conference.

I would think we have to assume that James and Tolliver are in a battle of the final two spots? Also, does it not seem like the Hawks will keep 15 guys? I figured they would keep at least one spot open for flexibility purposes.

Looking forward to the game tomorrow. But, am ready for the preseason to be finished. Ready for the real games to begin.

cdog

October 17th, 2012
12:39 pm

no big deal, this is the preseason.the hawks will dominate when it counts for real.

MsDee

October 17th, 2012
12:39 pm

Sorry vava74, yea pretty hash adding u in a list with slimjr and steven a smith but it just looks like u guys love finding ways to be negative about a team who is obviously with very new pieces without effective offensive plays at the moment!! To be negative about ANYTHING at this moment is just plan LUDICROUS..its PRESEASON. Now, once Drew has installed his Princeton offense to everyone and gotten their minds to think think think defense, THEN would be the time to see where this team is going.. wither they are a playoff team or if Drew is handling this kind of team the way Danny had envisioned it, and or who we could get by trading Petro and or Morrow or even Josh, if he shows in his actions that he too doesnt want to be here any longer. We have PLENTY of time to see how this team is expected to look in about 2 years from now!!

MsDee

October 17th, 2012
12:41 pm

vava74,

Who me, hold grudges??? NAWWWW!! :) Never that..not in my blood line!!

jlewis

October 17th, 2012
12:47 pm

@303
Miami
Boston
Brooklyn
Chicago(With or Without D-Rose)

Which one are the Hawks better than?

jlewis

October 17th, 2012
12:56 pm

Lets go further:

Knicks
Pacers
Which one are the Hawks better than?

i_am_soulstar

October 17th, 2012
12:57 pm

I agree that Korver does not start without Stevenson in the lineup. Korver guards whichever of the 2 or 3 positions is less likely to burn us, and Stevenson locks down the scorer. And ignoring Stevenson’s 3-pont percentage in NJ, the guy’s a knock down shooter. This whole Teague-Harris sharing the back court business cannot happen for the bulk of the game against legit teams.

Ra'mon

October 17th, 2012
12:57 pm

MsDee, I think you wrong about the hot hand comment with Josh. Because Josh has always been the one who wanted to feed the hot hand, rather it was Pargo, Crawford, Horford, or even Marvin. However, it was Joe who would come in after Josh had scored 3-4 buckets in a row, and immediately go back to his dribble routine. Josh (with exception of T-Mac) was the best passer out of a double team on the roster. Joe either always passes the ball too late, or ends up taking an awkward shot when double team. The difference this season is the passes in the corner that Josh used to send to Marvin or at the wing to Joe, will now be caught by Morrow or Korver instead, or under the basket by Al and not Zaza (who catches like he’s playing with boxing gloves).

vava74

October 17th, 2012
12:57 pm

MsDee,

LD is not the man to get anything out of this group. I am not sure if you remember “Scarface”, with Robert De Niro?

Remember the last scene? That’s LD with this group and unless Ferry takes matters to his hands and kicks him out after 2 weeks, then “midrange shawty” will quickly be “long bomb shawty”… and Horford will follow.

(by the way, I am liking some things that I’ve been seeing from Horford this year, in particular the 4 blocks against MIA, the block and the dunk on Gasol, …let’s hope that its a sign that he will embrace HIS position)

jlewis

October 17th, 2012
1:00 pm

It will come down to:
Bucks (Beast backcourt)
Wizards (We cant handle their point guard or center)
Sixers (A lot of size and a good point guard in Holida)
Hawks have to battle these for one of the last two spots

tyger

October 17th, 2012
1:06 pm

pls. note: 6′1 guys cannot defend 6′6+ guys…

Roster

October 17th, 2012
1:11 pm

If Larry Drew wants to address defense first then he needs to start this line-up;
PG- Jeff Teague
SG- DeShawn Stevenson
SF- Josh Smith
PF- Al Horford
C- Zaza Pachilia

Once the defensive rhythm is in place, the offense will come. We have so many shooters on our team, Joe Johnson will probably wont even be missed. And with the center position, Ivan Jonson, Johan Petro, and sometimes Anthony Tolliver will leave Al Horford and Josh Smith to finally play at their normal positions, PF/SF respectfully.

cp

October 17th, 2012
1:11 pm

The Hawks cant handle the Wizards point guard? Seriously did you watch any games last year against the Wizards.. And the Bucks are not better than the Hawks.

Looks like some watched a different game than I did last night. In fact the pg did get Korver the ball when he started off hot. Korver took the first few shots last night. He hit his first few then missed a couple.The Pacers announcers even commented on the number of shots Korver was taking The one thing I will agree with is guys who shouldnt be taking jumpers taking them.

And I still say Perry Jones should have been the pick over Jenkins. I didnt like the pick on draft night and I still dont like it. Ill root for the kid because he is a Hawks player now but I thought Jones was a better player and a better fit. I thought Jenkins was a reach and didnt do much other than shoot.

paian

October 17th, 2012
1:12 pm

@tyger

rajon rondo is 6″1 he can defend small forwards so what u saying?

i_am_soulstar

October 17th, 2012
1:12 pm

Hard to make an accurate prediction about the Hawks. We simply don’t know how they will produce on the court at full capacity against other teams IMO. Realistically, this team could finish anywhere from 3 to 9.

i_am_soulstar

October 17th, 2012
1:13 pm

Our success will probably depend more on coaching now than it has in recent history.

Ken Strickland

October 17th, 2012
1:16 pm

JUST JOE-Why would you suggest starting Stevenson when he might not even make the team, since he’s yet to participate in a practice? If you want your best player at each position, why suggest starting a player that’s regressed to the point where his stats last yr as a starter are more suggestive of a fringe player that sits near the end of the bench?

Everyone seems so focused on how he played against LeBron in the championship series when Dallas won the title, that they can’t bring themselves to realize that he’s since proven himself to be a shell of what he was, both on OFF and DEF. Starting Korver, who’s a DEF liability and poor rebounder, would put undue rebounding and DEF pressure on Horford and Josh.

Starting DJames at SF would definitely help our rebounding and DEF, which are areas of expertise Ferry said he was looking for in his starting SF. Korver would be far more effective in the role he’s best suited for, and that’s coming off the bench. With James being the likely starter at SF, we’d need a capable shooter at SG to balance the starting lineup out offensively.

The logical choice at this point would be Morrow, but if Jenkins can get into playing shape by the end of exhibition season, he could be Drew’s choice. The combination of Teague and Harris, who are both 6′3″, would be about the same, height wise, as the combination of JDumars and IThomas or Milwaukee’s backcourt combo.

It’s going to be very interesting to see who ends up making up the 12 man active roster. DStevenson’s production as a starter in New Jersey, plus his inability to participate in any practices so far as a Hawk, doesn’t bode well for him even making the team, let alone starting. With CJohnson being an almost certainty to be cut, and the likelihood of DStevenson as well, it looks like our 15 man roster is set, assuming we maintain a 15 man roster.

paian

October 17th, 2012
1:22 pm

Ken, stevenson doesnt have to make the team if hes under contract with the team..

cp

October 17th, 2012
1:22 pm

The backcourt of Teague and Harris wasn’t bad defensively at all to me. The problem was more Korver. He should come off the bench. I would actually start James at the 3. Dude rebounds the ball well and is solid defensively. He moves his feet very well. I would start Teague,Harris, James, Josh, and Al.

@Ken. Im sorry but I don’t see Jenkins or Morrow as starters.

jlewis

October 17th, 2012
1:23 pm

@cp, watched the games with the Wizards, John Wall has dominated the Hawks since Mike Bibby and Teague was no different, he made the comment “its hard to guard a guy that has freedom like that”, he torched us. We can not handle Milwaukee’s backcourt, Ellis and Jennings are nightmares, we beat them because JJ could take Ellis in the post.
The game is not all about scoring points, where players like Joe make their money is he’s a match up nightmare, 6′8, can shoot, defend three positions.

@soulstar top 5 is not realistic, If this team makes the playoffs you will get bad draft picks, will not be in the lottery. Ferry wants this team in the lottery, thats the only way you rebuild on the cheap, I don’t care how much cap space he has because:
Dallas – Lots of cap, great owner, no state taxes in Texas.
Orlando – Great weather, no state taxes.
At best ATL is 3rd on the free agent list.

MsDee

October 17th, 2012
1:25 pm

jlewis,

I know u were speaking to section 303, but I just HAVE to add my 2 cents (of course :) ), but I say and YES vava74, call me “perpetual optimist” or whatever u like but I say we are better than Chicago, Brooklyn, Pacers and the old men Knicks! Of course, this is AFTER Drew installs his Princeton offensive and these guys see how open they are because of ALL THE BALL MOVEMENT and cuts to the baskets. I was so looking forward to his offense when Drew 1st got hired. It actually looked great the 1st few games til u know who (ISO Joe) slowed it down til it became non-invoid. Look, our team WILL surprise a lot of u guys..just watch and see..

Oh and did I JUST read that vava74 actually gave props to my boy Horford?????? U haven’t seen nothing yet!!!!

MsDee

October 17th, 2012
1:28 pm

Chris Vivlamore ‏@ajchawks
#Hawks likely starters vs. Hornets Thursday: Teague, Harris, Stevenson, Smith, Horford

i_am_soulstar

October 17th, 2012
1:29 pm

Stevenson has a guaranteed contract this year, team option for the 2nd and 3rd years.

i_am_soulstar

October 17th, 2012
1:30 pm

Oops, should’ve refreshed before I posted that.

Grandad

October 17th, 2012
1:37 pm

Last Season around this same time;
OKC disposed of a serviceable young Big [BMullens]
to Charlotte for a 2nd round pick.

I [wonder / wish] [if / for] DFerry [would / to]
check on the availability of Cole Aldrich !
____________________________________________

Hi Side
Now that`s how one who has mastered the use of brackets,
paints his masterpiece.

Grandad

October 17th, 2012
1:39 pm

DeSS
is under contract for 3 yrs – is he not ?