Atlanta Hawks: Preseason more about evaluation
Vivlamore reporting. Here is my story on the Hawks that will appear in Thursday’s print edition of the AJC.
Three straight exhibition losses are not a concern to Hawks coach Larry Drew. This preseason has been about learning to best utilize the many new players at his disposal.
Drew has used a different starting lineup in each of the four exhibition games. That has been by design. While the results of the games matter to the competitive nature of coach and players, Drew said his top objective was to see what his players could, and could not, do in a number of different situations.
The Hawks (1-3) have three exhibition games remaining, including Thursday’s home game against the Hornets. Now comes the time for Drew to move toward the lineup and bench rotation that will open the regular season next month.
“As we move closer toward the end of our exhibition we’ll probably start using more of the rotation that we are going to be using during the regular season,” Drew said following Wednesday’s light workout. “We still have some evaluating to do with these guys and we’ll continue to throw some different looks to continue the process of giving guys some good looks and analyzing to see where they are, will they be able to make our ball club.”
Jeff Teague said he and Josh Smith, two of the team’s five returning players, spoke recently about the need to get into a regular flow. The team took a step in that direction when Devin Harris make his exhibition debut Tuesday. The guard, who will share backcourt duties with Teague, has been limited in training camp with a sore knee.
Al Horford, another of the returners, agreed it’s time for a regular lineup and bench rotation to take shape.
“I think we are at the point now where we really need to start mixing in the guys who are going to play together,” Horford said. “We need to start playing in games together not just in practice. I think we are going to start seeing that, hopefully, in the next few games.
“I think it’s going to be interesting. I think a lot of the guys are still trying to figure out what their roles are and where they fit in. We just need to keep playing hard. Everyone is going to get their opportunity. … It’s going to come down to who can pick up our defensive coverages the most. That’s what we really need. We know we can score the ball. We just need to come together as a team defensively.”
Drew has stressed defense all training camp even with much of the outside attention focused on the team’s new up-tempo offense. Defense has been at issue during the preseason. In each of their three losses, the Hawks have surrendered more than 100 points. The Spurs (51.9 percent), the Grizzlies (47.7) and the Pacers (44.6) all shot above the Hawks’ goal of holding the opposition between 41-42 percent from the field. Some of that is due to the limited play of the regulars during this evaluation process. Smith (knee) and Horford (shoulder) were inactive against the Pacers. Drew said the move was precautionary and both are expected to play against the Hornets.
“It all starts with Josh and myself,” Horford said of the team’s defense this season. “We have to be held more accountable defensively and we have to set the tone. That is something we are going to try to focus on these next few games.”
While the offense might be slightly ahead of the defense at this point in training camp, according to Drew and players, the Hawks have been outshot is all four exhibitions. They have shot 40.3 percent (140 for 347). However, the three losses have come by a combined 14 points.
There remains work to be done.
“I think these last three (games) I really want to focus on us,” Drew said. “Focus on what we have to do on the defensive end. Focus on what we have to do on the offensive end. If we have the focus in those areas and go out and do the things we’ve done throughout training camp, we should be in good shape.”
- Chris Vivlamore
* Practice report: Time for regular rotation to take shape
* Hawks drop to 1-3 in preseason
* Return of Harris gives Hawks more flexibility at guard
* Harris could make debut Tuesday
* Hawks report: More defense, tweets
* Williams kept eye and ear on Hawks
* Three players vying for two roster spots
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91 comments Add your comment
hottrod
October 18th, 2012
10:03 am
We don’t need a lottery pick b/c that would be an insult to Josh and Al who are all-star caliber players… We should be able to recruit players here to Atlanta with the cap space we have. Josh knows a lot of players. Heard Monta Ellis might be available
paian
October 18th, 2012
10:49 am
@troll
are u trying to annoy me? because im laughing at u, talking to yourself lmao
Ken Strickland
October 18th, 2012
11:04 am
We currently have a 16 man roster, which means a player has to be cut soon to reach the maximum 15 man roster, assuming we maintain that many players. Right now, based on production and lack of PT, it looks like Anderson and/or Petro will be the odd man/men out. I seriously doubt if Drew will abandon his MOTION OFF, especially since its biggest obstacle has been traded elsewhere.
The MOTION OFF seems perfect for a strong, aggressive, mobile SF like DJames, who doesn’t have the ability to create his own OFF. A frontline of James, Horford and Josh could end up becoming an above average rebounding and DEF frontline. A starting backcourt tandem of Teague, Harris, or Morrow, would be a good compliment to that frontline.
Last yr with Teague and Hinrich as our starting backcourt, backed up by Green and Pargo, there wasn’t a lot of emphasis on backcourt scoring or DEF. But with Teague, Harris, Williams, and Morrow as our backcourt rotation, there will definitely be more OFF emphasis on our backcourt, and hopefully just as much DEF emphasis.
With the addition of Harris and Williams, we now have 2 additional PG/SG options that can create their own shots, penetrate and dish, or finish at the rim and get to the FT line. We lost several gms last yr because of our inability to draw fouls and get tp the FT line. If Josh can improve his FT shooting, score more inside and refrain from shooting so many jumpers, he can turn everything around.
A bench combination of Zaza, Ivan, Tolliver, Korver, Williams, Harris or Morrow, and maybe Petro, is head and shoulders better than last yrs bench of TMac, VRad, Stackhouse, Green, Pargo, Marvin, Collins, and Dampier. And don’t get me wrong, last yrs bench did a pretty good job, especially when you factor in the loss of Horford.
Any of our SG candidates will be an upgrade over Hinrich, and James will be equal to JJ defensively and an upgrade rebounding wise. His passing skills are close enough for that not to be a factor. Horford is definitely an upgrade over Zaza at C, and Zaza is definitely upgrade over any backup C we had last yr.
Horford’s scoring ability(15.3PPG in 2010 with JJ on the team), coupled with the surplus scoring we’ll get over Hinrich’s 6.6PPG and from our SF position, will more than make up for JJs lost production. We can also expect more scoring from Teague, Horford and Josh, with the additional shot attempts that JJ, Hinrich, Green, Pargo, VRad and Marvins absence will provide.
While this yrs team won’t be as tall without JJ(6′7″), Marvin(6′9″), Collins(7′1″), Dampier(6′11′), and VRad(6′10″)we’ll have DJames(6′7″) and ATolliver(6′8″), who have both proven to be better rebounders than any of these players. I’ll take rebounding ability over height any day of the week, especially for a team that wants to run.
Astro Joe
October 18th, 2012
11:09 am
Strickland, don’t bet on Petro being cut.
Monta Ellis and LouWill on the same team? That may work in AAU ball, but it would be a fugly combination in the NBA.
And my guess is that if either Josh or Al miss more than 25 games, this team is headed to the lottery anyway.
Supreme Grand Poobah
October 18th, 2012
11:13 am
Hinrich just needed to get away from LD’s “system.” He’s averaging 11+ pts and 6 assists a game this preseason.
Astro Joe
October 18th, 2012
11:16 am
…we’ll have DJames(6′7″) and ATolliver(6′8″), who have both proven to be better rebounders than any of these players.
Strickland, how has James proven he can do anything better than guys who have actually been on an NBA floor more than 40 games? James hasn’t proven that he can play 40 games in a single season and Tolliver hasn’t proven that he is worthy of consistent rotational minutes. I get the optimism (and I am hoping James is all that he can be), but you’re making it sound like a matter of record… and it simply is not. There is a reason both guys were available from the Dollar Store this summer. If they truly were “proven” to be better than guys with long-term multi-million dollar contracts, they would not be both on unguaranteed deals fighting hard to stay in the NBA for one more year.
So to be clear, my issue isn’t with them, my issue is with your repeated attempt to say that these guys have “proven” themselves worthy (above or on par with established NBA contributors). Sorry, they haven’t.
Supreme Grand Poobah
October 18th, 2012
11:19 am
Tolliver cannot out rebound Dampier. He is a mediocre rebounder at best. Most guards can out rebound Collins.
Ken Strickland
October 18th, 2012
11:33 am
ASTRO JOE-Multiple lottery picks over the yrs certainly hasn’t done much to lift the Wizzards, Warriors, Supersonics, Bobcats, and Clippers to new heights. So why are you so certain just 1 lottery pick out of next yrs draft will work wonders for us that you’d advocate tanking the season? If one looks at the last few NBA champs, they’ll see that trades and FA acquisitions were the key to those teams success.
When it comes to JJenkins, some keep saying what he did in college won’t translate well in the pros, yet teams keep successfully drafting high school players, like our own LWilliams and JSmith. Like I’ve said before, his career coming out of college, as well as expectations, are almost identical to those of Reggie Miller, including most of the same negative assumptions about his abilities and limitations.
RMiller’s assumed lack of athleticism, ball handing abiltity, DEF, penetrating ability, and inability to create his own shot, were used as excuses to predict what he could and couldn’t do at the NBA level as well. One thing is certain, he’ll never accomplish a damned thing if LDrew shares the same negative opinions of him that some of our fans have and chooses to give him the Teague treatment.
Ken Strickland
October 18th, 2012
11:58 am
ASTRO JOE-It’s funny how you are so quick to question the ability of players who’ve been through NBA training camps, preseasons, made NBA rosters and played in regular season gms, even though on a limited basis. Yet, you’re perfectly willing to suggest we tank the season to acquire a totally unknown lottery pick with no experience whatsoever on an NBA level.
Remember MWilliams and QBrown, just to name a few. Weren’t they very high lottery picks? James was available at a bargain price because his teams #1 priority was to clear cap space. They weren’t willing to pay his salary and risk him not being fully recovered from his foot injury. Anderson was release because the Spurs felt they had develop 2 players that could duplicate his production and potential and wasn’t willing to play his salary.
These players weren’t released because anyone, other than you, questioned their abilities, just their degree of recovery from serious foot or ankle injuries. After all, if you’re still questioning James’ ability to play even 40gms, after what you’ve seem from him so far, isn’t it reasonable to expect his former GM and HC to have the same questions, especially without knowing or seeing what you’ve already seen?
Look, Ivan Johnson had been a disappointment his entire college and professional career due largely to attitude issues. Yet nobody, including you, questioned what he did last yr during training camp, and all Hawks fans are very thankful he resigned. So far, DJames is doing exactly what Ivan did last yr, and that’s prove he deserves a spot on the team, and possibly one on the starting lineup as well.
Buddy Grizzard
October 18th, 2012
12:00 pm
“I don’t care what the statistical numbers show If we had stevenson at SF instead of Marvin the past eight years we would’ve done better in the playoffs.”
Agree. Stevenson would have taken us farther because he is a championship-caliber player with heart. Joe and Marvin are gutless wonders who disappear in the big moments (I’ll give Marvin credit for having good games in 5 & 6 but where was he during the first three losses?). DeShawn is a player who backs down from nobody, not even the best player in the world. He has the ring to prove it. He was a starter on a title team. Provided he stays healthy and can still defend elite wings, I’ll take whatever I can get at the offensive end.
My suggestion would be to start either Korver or DeShawn at the 2 depending on matchups, depending on how strong the opponent is on the wing. Against Miami I would start Teague, Stevenson, James, Smith and Horford. I’d rather sacrifice offense and go defensive to start the game, then sub in shooters later.
Buddy Grizzard
October 18th, 2012
12:07 pm
“Strickland, don’t bet on Petro being cut.”
Not betting on it, I just hope Petro and Scott are the two players on the inactive list when the season starts.
Astro Joe
October 18th, 2012
1:15 pm
Strickland, everything that you mentionedwas based on actual NBA game performance. I would have said the same about Ivan had someone (based solely on pre-season last year) had “proven” himself ready for a rotational role. He did, but clearly, he is the exception to the rule. bottom line, I recognize their talent but I also recognize that up to this point, they have proven NOTHING. And one more thing, the talent to be on an NBA roster is different than the talent to contribute over 75+ games.
Regarding the lottery pick, I didn’t say we needed to use it to draft a college player, I just said it would be a good asset to use. Big difference. Hawks are in rebuilding mode and Ferry will use all avenues to build a championship contender. There is little doubt that adding a lottery pick to salary cap space and possibly some tradeable players would give him all kind of chips to use to go from fantastical hopes to realistic expectations for a deep playoff run.
Astro Joe
October 18th, 2012
1:26 pm
Not betting on it, I just hope Petro and Scott are the two players on the inactive list when the season starts.
Buddy, if the players in roster slots 13-15 make a difference on this team at the beginning of the season, then we’re already in deep, deep trouble.
Astro Joe
October 18th, 2012
1:28 pm
Astro Joe
October 18th, 2012
1:15 pm
Strickland, everything that you mentionedwas based on actual NBA game performance. I would have said the same about Ivan had someone (based solely on pre-season last year) had “proven” himself ready for a rotational role. He did, but clearly, he is the exception to the rule. bottom line, I recognize their talent but I also recognize that up to this point, they have proven NOTHING. And one more thing, the talent to be on an NBA roster is different than the talent to contribute over 75+ games.
Regarding the lottery pick, I didn’t say we needed to use it to draft a college player, I just said it would be a good asset to use.
Oops, that should have read, a good asset to HAVE.
Melvin
October 18th, 2012
1:51 pm
Astro,
If the lottery pick is in the top 5, we better use it. It should be some major talent coming out of next year draft. Put me down for wanting to draft Shabazz Mummah right now.
Also, i have a feeling that Rudy Gay and Danny Granger will be available next summer as both of those teams will probably look to shed salary. With the cap space that the Hawks are project to have, I wouldn’t mind bring in either guy but preferably Gay with another big time FA.
Slimjr
October 18th, 2012
1:57 pm
Never should the idea of tanking be a part of any professional franchise..If so that employee[players] included should be fired immediately…
The scroll button should be engage for any blogger who even puts it in writing..
Guess 45 years of futility will create a sign of desperation for some.
Tough to support these teams for sure but watch the Hawks finally get to a Finals and possibly win their 1st Championship in 6 years….
Ferry is going to get it done…There is a Lebron 2.0 out there and he will find him…..There’s a link to possibly one above
Ken Strickland
October 18th, 2012
2:02 pm
ANAL MINDED MORON ALERT 1:47pm.
Slimjr
October 18th, 2012
2:06 pm
The Hawks will eventually need solid Allstars [3] at least or [1] Superstar and [2] Allstars to compete in a Finals..
Long way to go… Use this roster to build the next one of Championship caliber..Drafting will play a major role.. Danny’s scouts will earn their keep!
Ken Strickland
October 18th, 2012
2:14 pm
ANOTHER ANAL MINDED MORON ALERT 1:57PM. These intellectually deficient MORONS seem to adhere to the old principle that believes if you keep throwing mud on a wall it will stick and eventually cover it. That’s why these ANALS continue repeating the same BS over and over and over. Otherwise, they have little to absolutely nothing whatsoever to contribute. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES. AN ANAL MINDED MORON under any other name is still an ANAL MINDED MORON.
Slimjr
October 18th, 2012
2:20 pm
Top Ten Plays:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6TmJcd30II&feature=related
Slimjr
October 18th, 2012
2:29 pm
@2:14pm [Sign] of [desperation]
For your intellect Sir: Your derogatory words attacking other bloggers personally over and over again just shows your flawed insecure character and would suggest that you should seek help immediately.
Note: Those disgusting vile words you constantly participate using over and over again on these awesome blogs reflect totally on you Sir….
From time to time I will remind your sorry azz…
Slimjr
October 18th, 2012
2:31 pm
You been giving 64 years to learn how to deal with 7 billions souls on this planet!
You have no excuses………
Najeh Davenpoop
October 18th, 2012
2:43 pm
“Kevin Love broke his hand. 6/8 weeks out. Minny’s playoff hopes spiralling down. Love’s durability is now a legitimate issue since he seems to get injured often lately.”
Between him and John Wall, two key injuries are casting a huge doubt on two of my “surprise” playoff picks for this season.
Ken Strickland
October 18th, 2012
2:47 pm
ASTRO JOE-I hope you don’t take any of the discussion/arguments we’ve been having seriously. Unlike most of the ANALS on these blogs, I know you are a serious Hawks fan and would never say anything negative about the team or any of our players simply for the purpose of drawing attention to yourself.
Regardless of what we might think or how much we might differ, this team has the talent to be the bast Hawks team in well over a decade. Based on reading a few of his scouting reports, plus what he’s shown so far, it appears DJames will give us aggressiveness, solid rebounding, and DEF at the SF position.
The amount of scoring we’ll get from him will depend on the MOTION OFF and how successful our guards are at penetrating and dishing. At SG, I don’t think we’ll suffer any with Harris or Morrow starting. They bring different styles and talents, but we can certainly benefit from the style and talent of either player.
Harris, Williams, Teague and Morrow will allow us to maintain constant ball pressure in the backcourt regardless of which combination is on the court. We can also say the same for a frontcourt of Josh, Al, Ivan, Zaza and Tolliver. Looking forward to the gm tonight. If anyone knows what it can be seen please post it.
northcyde
October 18th, 2012
2:56 pm
All I know is if we score 105 ppg . . and give up 105 ppg . . that’s not good.
How are we going to properly use all of this “offensive firepower”, but keep our defensive integrity at the same time? I’ll say what I said last year . . . everybody can’t play.
We have all of these shooters, but all of them can’t or won’t be able to play. Not if we want to win games. If we play the defensive minded guys, that means we’re not going to score as much.
Something has to give folks.
Astro Joe
October 18th, 2012
3:13 pm
Melvin, I agree on both of those guys. Both the Pacers and Grizzlies are not in the “true contender” category and will likely look to change things out next summer. And I also agree that Gay would be a better get than Granger. Also, Mayo has an opt-out next summer, so if he shows & proves he will likely be a UFA but NOT demand a stupid salary (I don’t see him becoming a max-level player in a single season).
The Truth
October 18th, 2012
3:22 pm
Excerpts from Peachtreehoops.com:
“What is still unclear is who might be in the picture at small forward. Kyle Korver will most certainly get minutes at forward but DeShawn Stevenson hasn’t played since the first preseason game and only spent a few minutes at the small forward position against the Heat. Damion James has impressed with his opportunities while Anthony Morrow has had a suspect preseason thus far. Only James and Korver are close to the size of typical small forwards but Stevenson has played the position in the past.
There are still plenty of questions that have yet to be answered.”
Agreed; Questions remain not only who will start at SF, but also who will be in the rotation. It seems James has secured himself a SF spot and surely Korver will be the rotation, but where does Morrow fit? With James projected to be included in the mix at SF, do we really need Stevenson there now. He seems to be a better defensive fit now at an already crowded SG position.
Sometimes too many options for LD is a bad thing.
paian
October 18th, 2012
3:29 pm
Astro Joe
O.J. signed 2 years with the mavs i believe
The Truth
October 18th, 2012
3:38 pm
More excerpts from Peachtreehoops.com:
“I love the fact that both guys can really break the defense down. They can get in the paint and cause havoc. Last night I put them both back in again in the fourth quarter, about the half-way mark, and they created some great opportunities for us. We just weren’t able to knock down some shots toward the end.”
This is LD dream come true: a point driven offense, breaking down defenses forcing the oppositions into playing small-ball. To run this style effectively (at the next level), LD needs elite PGs and need to be elite himself.
Devin Harris has been, Teague want to be, Lou Williams might be and LD has a long way to go.
The verdict: Too many unknowns
O'Brien
October 18th, 2012
3:45 pm
Melvin,
Also, I have a feeling that Rudy Gay and Danny Granger will be available next summer as both of those teams will probably look to shed salary. With the cap space that the Hawks are project to have, I wouldn’t mind bring in either guy but preferably Gay with another big time FA..
I prefer Gay, but it will be easier to trade for Granger based on the salaries (Granger will only have 1 year, $14 mil left on his contract. Rudy Gay on the other hand, will have 2 years, $36 mil), and trade wise we match up better with the Pacers.
Maybe they take Horford for him (Memphis does not want Horford, since they have Zach Randolph). David West’s contract will have expired, and the Pacers could play Al Horford at PF, who I think could compliment Hibbert at Center. Then the Hawks could sign James Harden as their big FA.
FA starting Center (Zaza maybe?)
Smith – $15.5 mil
Granger – $14 mil
Harden – $15 mil
Teague – $6 mil
Those are your starters. Not bad. Problem is…as Najeh will say, is that team good enough to get to an NBA finals?
Astro Joe
October 18th, 2012
3:47 pm
paian, he has an opt-out after 1 year… in case he BLOWS up.
Astro Joe
October 18th, 2012
3:48 pm
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/FreeAgents-12-13/nba-free-agents-2012-2013
Grandad
October 18th, 2012
3:51 pm
To Everyone:
I must disagree that we are rebuilding;
retooling or reloading perhaps,
but I just do not see DFerry going the blow it up & rebuild route.
Also, we have much too much talent for that avenue.
Plus, plus the salary expenditure possibilities this coming summer.
No, our Hawks are closer than we think.
The ” Winning Culture ” is being cultivated;
and Danny Ferry would never corrupt that most important concept
for a high draft pick.
He knows the need to instill the mindset to Win Now to his …
-still young players- !
A high Lottery Pick is a crap shoot anyway.
A ” Winning Culture ” outlasts any single player !
This [our] team is “competitive” Now, that is all we can ask !
GoHawks !
Ra'mon
October 18th, 2012
4:03 pm
Grandad, you’re correct with the crap shoot of drafting. However, aside from the Knicks, what elite team in the league didn’t get one of their superstars from the draft? Miami, OKC, SAS, LAL, Nets, and Celtics each have benefited from high draft picks. The fact is to depend on free agency is just as much of a crap shoot as drafting is, unless you’re going to over pay. Remember the Bulls signed Boozer AFTER they couldn’t get any of their top 6 choices that off season. The Knicks signed Amare AFTER they couldn’t get either of their top 3 choices. If its the week before the draft, and Charlotte has a top two pick, I would offer Horford to them for the pick. I believe Muhammed is a superstar. And I believe the centers in this draft will be able to be as productive if not more as Al is also.
tjhook
October 18th, 2012
4:16 pm
@o’brien,
I agree that we should look at acquiring Danny Granger, but not for the forward/center you mentioned (Horford). I think Ferry is going to short-circuit LD’s dream for a point guard backcourt and tell him to choose either Harris or Teague. The one who is not chosen will be shopped to Indiana (Teague is from Indianapolis) along with a shooting wing (Korver or Morrow). The Pacers would benefit from a perimeter threat that is comfortable feeding off of their new primary weapon (Paul George). Devin could be chosen because of his contract status and because Teague looks to be a long-term solution, but I am primarily focused on what PG gets the ball in JSmoove and Big Al’s hands (without being compromised) the easiest. the PG that can do this will determine the next direction of this franchise.
Astro Joe
October 18th, 2012
4:19 pm
Grandad, IMO, if the best players are Al and Josh, this team won’t go any further than it has in the past 5 years. A better head coach will most definitely help, but I simply don’t see the talent that suggests this is a top 2 team in the conference. I don’t believe that Ferry traded away Joe to simply remain a second round playoff team. He may fail (and honestly, most GMs fail… which is why the whole thing is a crap shoot), but we’re now officially cheering for a player name “Cap Space” to save our franchise. Because LouWill, Devin and Korver certainly aren’t the guys to lead us through the glass ceiling.
Ray
October 18th, 2012
4:20 pm
Can we let the season began before we start talking about FA’s or who needs to be traded.
Slimjr
October 18th, 2012
4:56 pm
A good GM is already looking one, two, three, years out..
He already knows if his [best] [players] are Al and Josh that they are not going to a Finals in this time line..
Ramon, you maybe on to something incredible..I’m going to take a closer look at this..
500 years ago the Falcon Fanatic would have been one of the delusional ones calling the Earth flat…Enough already!
Those days are gone. Its time for a championship Trophy in this great basketball town!
This team cant beat the Elite.. 28-47 proves that…
a bird in the hand>2 in the busch.
October 18th, 2012
5:07 pm
gave up a starting forward on a playoff team for a guard with bad wheels.
Speedy Claxton all over again?!
lawd help us.
Buddy Grizzard
October 18th, 2012
6:04 pm
“Buddy, if the players in roster slots 13-15 make a difference on this team at the beginning of the season, then we’re already in deep, deep trouble.”
Once Anderson is cut, Petro and Scott are the 14th and 15th men on this roster. If Petro is active, Drew may try to play him as many minutes as Zaza.
Buddy Grizzard
October 18th, 2012
6:09 pm
“On top of all this, nearly matching the return of Al Horford to the starting lineup, is the spark that comes from realizing that Larry Drew is a real comer amongst his coaching brethren. And as great as Larry Drew was in 2011-12, he’ll truly have his work cut out for him this season.”
Wow. Kelly Dwyer is a tool.