Atlanta Hawks: Up-tempo offense can’t forget the low post
Vivlamore reporting. Here is my story for Wednesday’s print edition of the AJC.
There is so much talk around Hawks training camp about the new up-tempo offense that promises a faster brand of basketball. Coach Larry Drew has gone as far as to set an ideal of a mere four seconds for his team to cross midcourt to start an offensive possession.
However, there is an element of the Hawks offense that cannot be forgotten with this fast-paced, perimeter-shooting group. There must continue to be a low-post presence. If not, much of the new look will be ineffective.
“I don’t want to stray away from that,” Drew said. “Our game, obviously, is going to be in the open floor and in transition. But still we have to establish ourselves in the low post and force teams to have to defend us down there, force teams to double team us down there.”
The Hawks are going to run with Jeff Teague, Devin Harris and Lou Williams running the offense. The speedy guards are reason No. 1 the Hawks revamped their offense. The addition of perimeter shooters such as Kyle Korver, Anthony Morrow and DeShawn Stevenson creates another wrinkle to the quick pace. The attention the guards draw with their ability to drive the lane opens the outside for the long-range attempts.
However, that cannot be the sole look of the offense, not with Josh Smith, Al Horford and Zaza Pachulia working down low.
“I don’t believe you can win a lot of games, go to the playoffs and win a championship just from shooting from outside,” Pachulia said. “There are a lot of nights when outside shooting won’t be there for you. You need the inside presence for sure. If both aspects are successful, it’s very hard for defenses to guard. It’s a huge advantage when you have low-post players who can score down low, defenses will help inside and then you have outside shooters.”
Therein lies the flexibility of the Hawks offense. If an opponent chooses to take away the outside shot, the inside should be open. If the opponent tries to clamp down on the inside, the outside should be open.
The Hawks were a middle-of-the road team last year in points scored in the paint. They were ranked 19th in the NBA with an average of 39.6 points per game. Denver led the league with 53.2 points per game. The Hawks were without the services of Horford for all but 11 games last season. They often used Jason Collins with Pachulia was out.
Horford said the Hawks yet to introduce the low-post offense during training camp.
“You need to have an inside presence,” Horford said. “You can’t just sit around and shoot jumpers all day. We have to have a paint presence. We have to establish that. In camp, we have really been focusing on the defensive stuff and getting out and running but at some point we are going to have to address it.”
In keeping with the Hawks’ philosophy, it all starts with defense.
“First and foremost to be an up-tempo team, you have to get stops,” Smith said. “You can be an up-tempo team, how Golden State was four or five years ago and run-and-gun and try to outscore teams, but in the Eastern Conference you have to play defense in order to win basketball games. In order for us to be an up-tempo team we have to get stops first. When you get stops it makes it easier to get fast-break points.”
Smith said when the game slows down he, Horford and Pachulia have the necessary moves to score down low. If they force teams to trap in the paint the perimeter shooters should get open looks at the basket.
- Chris Vivlamore
THE LATEST NEWS
* Harris cleared for full-contact practice
* Q and A with Anthony Tolliver
* Hawks want Teague to be more vocal
* Tolliver out with scratched cornea
* Exhibition season opens with win over Heat
* Starting lineup for exhibition opener
* Practice report: Starting lineup preview?
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100 comments Add your comment
doc
October 9th, 2012
7:14 pm
been waiting!
doc
October 9th, 2012
7:16 pm
sluggish bloggers ariund here having a hard time keeping up with the cv train.
maybe he is being influenced by the new up tempo offense instead of the iso joe that seems to have held up everything in atl including the blog.
jgsbirds
October 9th, 2012
7:20 pm
looking forward to the season–i’ve been waiting a long time for a hawks team that could just flat out shoot the ball. i think my wait if finally over–now hopefully they’ll be able to stop some folks as well and get the rebound and get on the move!
glw
October 9th, 2012
7:21 pm
Who’s going to the post though? Will Josh and Al fight over who gets the most jump shots during the game? Sad to say, but Zaza is the best at being physical and drawing fouls in the post. Maybe with all the shooters and the way the offense is run, those guys will go down low a bit more.
MsDee
October 9th, 2012
7:25 pm
Now THAT’s how I like to hear my boy Horford talking, “You need to have an inside presence,” Horford said. “You can’t just sit around and shoot jumpers all day. We have to have a paint presence. We have to establish that. In camp, we have really been focusing on the defensive stuff and getting out and running but at some point we are going to have to address it.”
Blast
October 9th, 2012
7:25 pm
Chris Vivlamore on fire!
slimjr
October 9th, 2012
7:32 pm
“Horford said the Hawks yet to introduce the low-post offense during training camp”
Hey AllNBA here’s an idea, why not introduce yourself to a low post game? Hmmmm
grimey
October 9th, 2012
7:34 pm
I believe Smith horford teague can be our own home grown big 3
slimjr
October 9th, 2012
7:38 pm
MC= ISO Joe? Funny ish!
Luke Cage
October 9th, 2012
7:42 pm
SWEET CHRISTMAS!!!
Luke Cage
October 9th, 2012
7:46 pm
It will work if SMOOVE will pass to a guard to begin a fastbreak then fills the lanes so he can finish instead of trying to go coast to coast resulting in a turnover or a bad shot/pass.
slimjr
October 9th, 2012
7:48 pm
Hey AllNBA, your major[only] weapon is the [set] [shot]!!
You got that turn-around-fade-away set shot down pact yet? This past summer you were about 5 feet short on that one..Aim for 3 feet that way AllStar Josh can catch it and convert it..And you get the assist man! Yea that’s the ticket….
ClassicHawks
October 9th, 2012
7:56 pm
Whatever happen to the always pouting Michael Cunningham, good riddance. Villamore is the best thing to happen to Atlanta Hawks basketball this side of Danny Ferry! ha ha! Keep up the good work sir!
slimjr
October 9th, 2012
8:12 pm
On Live: Da Bulls and Memphis, NBA TV
slimjr
October 9th, 2012
8:12 pm
Man if we had Rudy Gay!!!!!!
slimjr
October 9th, 2012
8:31 pm
FTPB
tony
October 9th, 2012
7:46 pm
“I’m very excited about watching Lou Williams in action. This guy is a fearless competitor who can score with the best of them. The Sixers did not take full advantage of his potential and will regret it once he becomes an allstar. If LD decides to start him at the 1, have no problem with that. That guy will inspire people to come out to the games. Get the season going!”
Hey Tony, I too cant wait to see Lou energize these Hawks!!!!
This dude has [STAR] and [fan favorite] written all over his game.. Somebody maybe seeing more splinter time? Perhaps….
#Let'sGoHawks!
October 9th, 2012
8:35 pm
Anyone know what site the game is streaming?
Blast
October 9th, 2012
8:40 pm
Looking at Jerry Sandusky in his jumpsuit with Yahoo reporting that he has lost a ton of weight, the picture confirms it, with a lifetime jail term staring you in the face, that old dude ain’t gonna last 3 years in jail, man. 5 max. Especially if he doesn’t like prison food.
Dude is a peodophille monster. Wrecked a lot of lives, and he still isn’t taking responsibility. Burn in hell, Jerry.
AnotherGM
October 9th, 2012
8:42 pm
Note to LD, you have ZERO low post players!
Rod from College Park
October 9th, 2012
9:05 pm
“Hey AllNBA here’s an idea, why not introduce yourself to a low post game? Hmmmm”
LOL
Astro Joe
October 9th, 2012
9:08 pm
Slim, referring to Al as “All NBA” is like trying to insult Kevin Love by calling him “gold medalist”.
Big Ray
October 9th, 2012
9:19 pm
Astro Joe ,
Good analogy….
Big Ray
October 9th, 2012
9:21 pm
Slim Jr ,
Agreed on Lou Williams. Teague’s playing time will suffer this season, and for once I have nothing to say about it. Lou and Devin have the tools to keep Jeff Teague on the bench if he can’t find his “dog” or go buy one.
I have no idea what he’s talking about when he says the “other guys” could bring the ball up and he could fade to the wing….ummm…he played a lot of two guard in college, but he doesn’t have the jumper (mechanics OR reliability) to do that in the NBA, much less the size or the attitude. You have to have two of the three…
Devin can…Lou has…but they also don’t have aggression issues…
Big Ray
October 9th, 2012
9:27 pm
As for the post game ….
Is this supposed to be a joke?
Pahulia doesn’t have much of a post game. He can score inside a bit, but he doesn’t have a post game, really.
Al Horford has NO post game. When matched up against centers, they are either taller/longer, or heavier, or both. Al’s strength is in going past them to the basket from 12+ feet out. And he has to do that quickly…that jab step of his is a joke….nobody goes for it.
Josh Smith could have a post game…but “midrange shawty” likes to hang out on the perimeter for jumpers so much…he probably forgot he could score inside. Thing is, his best move to the basket involves much the same as Horford – using his quickness to get there…sometimes that half-way crossover dribble of his also does the trick….but again…he won’t set up in the post more than a couple of times a game in most games, so…..
What post game is it that they “can’t forget about”…that they actually HAVE?
I guess this is where the wailing Al Jefferson fans come in…because if big plodding Al can do anything, it’s score in the post. He can rebound too, but his numbers are slightly below that gawd-awful guy we have known as Al Horford…which I find so ironic…
Big Ray
October 9th, 2012
9:31 pm
Oh wait….we’ll get our post game from “do a little bit of everything and a whole lot of mostly nothing” Anthony Tolliver….right?
Or maybe Johan Petro…who can’t do anything except be rooted in the post while he’s in the game. That’s about as much of a “post game” as we can expect to see, I think…
Slimjr
October 9th, 2012
9:40 pm
Kevin Love> AllStar Al
Apples and Oranges fan club member..
Slimjr
October 9th, 2012
9:42 pm
Apples and Box Cars….
Luke Cage
October 9th, 2012
9:45 pm
“midrange shawty” LMAO!!
Slimjr
October 9th, 2012
9:45 pm
JT [dog] will not help him. Just put him on a leash and sit him down on the bench.. Larry Drew has already found his [stud] and it aint Jeff…
Slimjr
October 9th, 2012
10:03 pm
“I have no idea what he’s talking about when he says the “other guys” could bring the ball up and he could fade to the wing….ummm…he played a lot of two guard in college, but he doesn’t have the jumper (mechanics OR reliability) to do that in the NBA” -Big Ray-
Cosign Sir..
doc
October 9th, 2012
10:11 pm
what teague’s floater doesnt count as a jumper? tell that to jj. heh heh
Slimjr
October 9th, 2012
10:19 pm
doc the floater is only effective if you have a reliable jump shot…His is not quite there yet and that’s being nice…
steven a smith
October 9th, 2012
10:30 pm
Drew appears to opt for scoring over defense??? Playoff Basketball is more about Defense “Larry”
Slimjr
October 9th, 2012
10:30 pm
“Al Horford has NO post game. When matched up against centers, they are either taller/longer, or heavier, or both. Al’s strength is in going past them to the basket from 12+ feet out. And he has to do that quickly…that jab step of his is a joke….nobody goes for it.” – Big Ray -
Preach, Choir, Tabernacle
Slimjr
October 9th, 2012
10:37 pm
CP3 has that beautiful [reliable] jump shot from [mid-range Shawty] to out beyond the 3pt. line.
Which keeps his defenders off balance so when he decides to penetrate his [floaters] are much more effective and damaging…
Marvin, Horford and Jon Kontract
October 9th, 2012
10:39 pm
“Horford said the Hawks yet to introduce the low-post offense during training camp”
ROFLMAO!!!
Really. Like we have all been saying this team could be much better with Al Jefferson. We dont need him to run the court as some of these guys have been saying. If Harris, Williams and Smoove and Teague cant handle that then we are wasting our time. We are very fast with those four. We need a center who command a double triple team and Jefferson can surely do that.
Nobody is going to waste time trying to double Al. What coach do you know is that stupid?
Marvin, Horford and Jon Kontract
October 9th, 2012
10:47 pm
“I don’t believe you can win a lot of games, go to the playoffs and win a championship just from shooting from outside,” Pachulia said. “ It’s a huge advantage when you have low-post players who can score down low, defenses will help inside and then you have outside shooters.”
Well no chit!
Been saying that for years. if you dont have a half court game in the playoffs you have no chance to go far. Running and Gunning will surely get you to the playoffs but then the game changes to favor Finesse and Defense in the Half court game. You walk the ball up and hustle back on D.
We have Zero (0) chance of going far in the playoffs with Al Horford in the low post. Mister Escort service is a handicap.
Slimjr
October 9th, 2012
10:50 pm
If opposing coaches would go back and watch film on Horford in the 2011 playoffs against Orlando and Chicago they would find that he could essentially and effectively be guarded by a 4..And technically neutralized for the whole series..
Marvin, Horford and Jon Kontract
October 9th, 2012
11:01 pm
“but his numbers are slightly below that gawd-awful guy we have known as Al Horford…which I find so ironic…”
How much weed does Fat Nasty smoke? Is he hallucinating or still warming Al’s nuttz? You be the Judge.
Here are the numbers over the last 5 years.
Rebounds/Blocks/ Pt’s – Last 5 years
2007–08 Jefferson 11.1/ 1.5/ 21.0 VS Horford 9.7/ 0.9/ 10.0
2008–09 Jefferson 11.8/ 1.7/ 23.1 VS Horford 9.3 /1.4 /11.5
2009–10 Jefferson 9.3 /1.3 /17.1 VS Horford 9.9 /1.0 /14.2
2010–11 Jefferson 9.7/1.9 /18.6 VS Horford 9.3 /1.3 /15.3
2011–12 Jefferson 9.6 /1.7 /19.2 VS Horford 7.0/ 1.1/ 12.8
Me personally I would not call that slightly better, unless I had some of Ray’s Weed.
doc
October 9th, 2012
11:04 pm
slimj i was kidding. heh heh i know a floater isnt a jump shot.
watching jj, that is all teague has shown as part of his game that of getting onto the lane. but i disagree that a jumper is necessary to have with a floater. it is one of two shots you can make if you get in the lane the other being a dunk/layin and for some reason he has not been a good finisher at the basket, nor does he draw fouls like lou does. his over all game is lacking and inconsistent and not sure he can grow above it nor match devin or lou for talents.
Ghost of Chipper Jones
October 9th, 2012
11:07 pm
doc:
.Zup my man!
Been following the progress of yet another former HAWK with interest here in the DMV, one JENNERO PARGO.
He lit up the gym tonight from long range in the open-to the- public scrimmage at GEORGE MASON U. before the WIZ next X-games tilt against the KNICKS.
With JOHN WALL on the sidelines until near Turkey Day, folks around here are watching the newbies like PARGO, PRICE, and WEBSTER with interest trying to aswage their angst at WALL, NENE, and BOOKER being on the pine with assorted injuries.
How’s tricks in the HOTLANTA with a good team?
DANNY FERRY is the real deal in my estimation. Be curious to see more moves from him. I really like MIKE SCOTT who I have seen at work in person on several occasions, and JOHN JENKINS, two gets that I think will help the competitive depth on the HAWKS.
Pimp My Stats
October 9th, 2012
11:08 pm
Jefferson in is worst year (last five years) is better than Al at his best. So how does Ray pimp the number to make Him “Slightly better”?
Well I guess if you factor the averages before Jefferson became a starter….I mean add his numbers as a bench player shortly after he was drafted then yeah, you can pimp Jefferson’s stats, but those Last five years companions between the “Al’s” says it all.
Detox Ray.
richbrave
October 9th, 2012
11:13 pm
doc:
Dang, forgot to change my name back since CHIPPER retired.
Thinking of baseball for just a moment…..the BRAVES are having my main man in with a select number of other aspiring youngsters for a two day exhibition in front of the BRAVES scouting department first weekend in November.
Plan to be in BURLINGTON, N.C. with all my BRAVES paraphernalia on for that show.
richbrave
October 9th, 2012
11:20 pm
assuage, sorry. Meant to go back and correct that one.
richbrave
October 9th, 2012
11:26 pm
Everybody hit the exits I see. O.K. Later.
doc
October 9th, 2012
11:35 pm
ghost i said hello the other day when you came by for a brief visit.
wiz got it together yet?
kind of optimistic this team will not go too far in the hole but in this league it doesnt take much to get a swoon started. then gm’s make rules behind closed doors to get a team into the lottery, fine line
doc
October 9th, 2012
11:36 pm
fine line between prosperity and austerity in the nba.
Preachtree Fan
October 9th, 2012
11:39 pm
Big Ray
Stop feeding the trolls. They can’t go pass 10 mins without calling Al Horford name. Al This and Al That!!!!Their man crush for him is out of control. Yeah you trolls (are WACK) having wet dreams for him all through the nite. Must be fourplay for some shadow action. huh?
Preachtree Fan
October 9th, 2012
11:49 pm
Any one of you as s holes how post stats showing Al up or who is critical of Al is a troll . How many times to I have to say that ?
Any Criticism of Al = Troll
get it.?
Leave Al alone.
Preachtree Fan
October 9th, 2012
11:55 pm
*who post stats showing Al up
You guys did Marvin the same way. Leave Al alone. He just needs about 4 or 5 more years to get better, and another contract extent ion.
Pimp My Stats
October 9th, 2012
11:58 pm
Preachtree Fan
I’m sorry
I retract everything I said about Al
I’m just a jerk, I admit
Pimp My Stats
October 10th, 2012
12:01 am
Slimjr
Let’s get together upstairs and think about Al Horford. Its pass midnite
Preachtree Fan
October 10th, 2012
12:27 am
Al and I are lovers. Me Big Ray and Al did a 3 some. please dont trade Al.
Preachtree Fan
October 10th, 2012
12:28 am
You can pimp my stats any time…
Just the Facts Ma'am
October 10th, 2012
1:07 am
Rebounds/Blocks/ Pt’s – Last 5 years
2007–08 Jefferson 11.1/ 1.5/ 21.0 VS Horford 9.7/ 0.9/ 10.0
2008–09 Jefferson 11.8/ 1.7/ 23.1 VS Horford 9.3 /1.4 /11.5
2009–10 Jefferson 9.3 /1.3 /17.1 VS Horford 9.9 /1.0 /14.2
2010–11 Jefferson 9.7/1.9 /18.6 VS Horford 9.3 /1.3 /15.3
2011–12 Jefferson 9.6 /1.7 /19.2 VS Horford 7.0/ 1.1/ 12.8
PEDRO EL GITANO
October 10th, 2012
6:04 am
Al Horford,cállate la boca.Tú no tienes juego de pies ni habilidad para jugar al poste ni regatear sin que te desmorones al suelo con tu cuerpo de robocop.Si quieres anotar rebotea y corre,eso es lo que el equipo necesita de tí.¿quién crees que eres,MacHale?Sólo eres un pivot mediocre con más protagonismo del que merece.Keith Benson lo haría mejor que tú jugando tus mismos minutos.
vava
October 10th, 2012
6:49 am
Pedro,
No crees que estás exagerando? Benson és solo un proyecto que ni si quiera logro jugar media temporada en Italia.
Horford tiene muchas lacunas, pero es un jugador acima de la media.
terrell
October 10th, 2012
7:50 am
Welcome to Jumperville USA. LD and Woody love themselves some jumpshots. lol. Btw, who in the heck are we gonna post up? Al? That’ll be about 20 mintes of the clock right there. Josh? Hes gonna be too busy launching 3’s. Zaza? He’ll either fumble the pass, or get his shot blocked by the rim. lol
terrell
October 10th, 2012
7:52 am
“20 seconds of the clock”
AG
October 10th, 2012
8:16 am
Wow Terrell, I have been saying the same thing about ZaZa. He is worst than terrible! The trolls who want ZaZa to start is simply crazy. They are the same one’s who want an upgrade at center.
Mike is Back
October 10th, 2012
8:18 am
CV, I missed the blog…But I’m starting warm up to Tolliver…guys start to figure stuff out once they get some solid years under their belt…THAT’S why I thought it great to get Sweet Lou!
Tolliver is right…we could use another guy with his size that can play. I’m thinking Tolliver may be able to give us…at lease what we were getting out of Marvin…or close to it…so in that scenario…I’M ALL FOR THIS GUY.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sam
October 10th, 2012
8:21 am
Sounds similar to another NBA team – the Spurs.
Splitter and Duncan are comparable to Josh and Al. I guess Lou would be our Ginobli and Stevenson would be our Leonard. Our pieces aren’t nearly as good, but they are similar.
O'Brien
October 10th, 2012
8:24 am
FTPB,
Ra’mon,
I am on board with taking a chance on Blatche as well (if the price is right), because there is no denying his talent if he can get his head in the game consistently. And maybe a change of scenery will do him well.
O'Brien
October 10th, 2012
8:27 am
“In camp, we have really been focusing on the defensive stuff and getting out and running but at some point we are going to have to address it.”Al Horford.
If the low post game is that important, how come it has not been addressed in camp thus far?
That being said, I’m not really sure how to address it. Our 2 centers (Al and Zaza) don’t have much of a low post game, and Josh likes to shoot jumpers.
Hawks fans, I think we will spend most of the season hoping the jumpers are falling, because I think that will be our offense again.
AG
October 10th, 2012
8:28 am
O’Brien, Blanche already signed with Brooklyn. Marvin had a decent game on Monday. I don’t think the Nets have played yet.
AG
October 10th, 2012
8:36 am
The Nets do not play until Friday. Other former Hawks not doing to well. Hinrich scored 5 points yesterday. Willie Green started at SG but had one basket. Vlad Rad looked terrible also. If we thought our bench was solid last year, this year our bench is much better.
If you look at the preseason opener, it was our backups who helped us against the Heat. I am a little concerned that LD put Lou with Smith and Horford in practice.
vava74
October 10th, 2012
8:52 am
AG,
Hinrich had 7 assists in 20+ minutes and had the second best ± stat. I would not call that bad.
You seem to look only at points, which is not the right way of watching basketball!
Slimjr
October 10th, 2012
9:09 am
Is AllNBA Championship material?
Not in this time line..
As usual, it will be guard play that will take this team as far as their talent will take them..The bigs will be along for the ride…
Watch the #5 disappear in the playoffs like his buddy down the street Choke Jones..
Slimjr
October 10th, 2012
9:10 am
#5[Center] for those who have not had their hot cup of java yet…
MsDee
October 10th, 2012
9:12 am
I think if Drew addressed post plays to Horford more often, we would see him posting up with a more consistent post game. I think he has one, but how can he showcase it if he already knows players like Joe, Josh, Jamal and now Lou jack up jumpers at will. In case most of yall Horford haters didnt know, Drew isnt a post play type of coach. He is a shooters coach and I think Horford is getting fed up about it and I dont blame him. Josh could have a post game as well but why when u have a coach who dont emphasize it at all?? I have been trying to cope with Drew, but im starting to want him out b4 the season ends. I’m still hoping Danny has his eye on Jerry Sloan. Could really be a great team PLUS gain some notoriety around Atlanta.
Buddy Grizzard
October 10th, 2012
9:17 am
Anyone saying the Hawks have no inside game, stop smoking crack. Go back and watch highlights of Game 4 against CHI two years ago when Josh dominated the paint against the deepest front line in the NBA. Last season at times LD force fed Josh in the post to great affect. Other times he went away from it. The decision to run plays that get the ball to Josh in the post is purely a coaching decision. If it doesn’t happen, it is a result of bad coaching.
And you have no idea what Al can do in the post when teams can’t sag into the lane because they have to stay up on shooters. Al has been the Hawks’ most efficient offensive player for years. Now you add another player with elite offensive efficiency in Lou Williams. Lou already proved to be capable and willing to feed the post in the first exhibition game. You people have no idea how good these Hawks can be.
Buddy Grizzard
October 10th, 2012
9:20 am
“I think if Drew addressed post plays to Horford more often, we would see him posting up with a more consistent post game.”
MsDee always on point! You beat me to it… our presence or lack of a post game is not based on the ability or inability of our post players. It’s based purely on the coach’s decision to run plays that get the ball inside to our post players.
vava74
October 10th, 2012
9:20 am
A lot has been said in the blog which I would like to comment:
Hawks’ post game:
It’s not non existent. It’s weak.
Same applies to Horford. He has ONE semi-reliable move in the post: he establishes in the left side of the box, receives, drives left into the lane and drops a half hook.
Teague:
Teague will need to eat his wheaties and be consistent and as Big Ray said, we are now in a position that we do not need to care so much about Teague.
He seems to be a nice kid with some substantial talent but he needs to become a man pronto.
On his shot, I think people have been to harsh on him. Last year he shot well most of the year.
His shot abandoned him after that last second airball against the Celts which is an indication that he is mentally fragile.
Just check his monthly splits of last year:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4624/splits;_ylt=ArQrFtJmJL2S7GKs4CWVE8WkvLYF
He was shooting the 3 ball at a very high clip, then he collapsed for a month and closed the year back at decent levels.
For the lazy, just look at his April numbers:
April G12 mpg28:36 FG5.2 FGA9.5 FG%54.4 3pt0.7 3ptA1.9 3Pt%34.8 FT2.8 FTA3.3 85.0 RPG2.8 APG5.4 TO1.8 STL1.3 BLK0.8 FL2.1 PPG13.8
The kid shot .544 from the floor in 12 games in April and that production (13.8 ppg / 5.4 apg ) came in just over 28mpg.
I don’t know what is there not to like from the point of view of the kid being deserving of further nurturing and development.
vava74
October 10th, 2012
9:25 am
For the less focused, that production PER 36 minutes per game means:
17.4 ppg
6.8 apg
3.5 rpg
1.6 stl
1.0 blk
These are quasi-stellar numbers and I would go on limb and say that these numbers are borderline all-star.
doc
October 10th, 2012
9:36 am
i guess we still dont know what we get with teague, eh?
will he relax because of the support around him and do better, or worse as his laid back attitude surfaces on court.
the flip is he feels pressure and succumbs to it throwing his hands up saying it is out of his control or is spirited and makes the small guard collection into a three headed monster.
time will tell. unfortunately those that scream and want to blame ld are wrong. by now teague is totally responsible for his career.
Astro Joe
October 10th, 2012
10:06 am
vava said, “He seems to be a nice kid with some substantial talent but he needs to become a man pronto.”
I am hearing an angelic choir harmonizing in the background… and recalling a discussion about pampers.
Meanwhile, like I said the other day, for this roster and head coach, Teague will be the least of our concerns for the coming season.
vava74
October 10th, 2012
10:24 am
AJ,
There is time for pampering and there is time to stop pampering.
I believe that Teague will be fine and maybe even surprise a few. I think having Harris and Lou behind him – certainly playing aggressive – will make him be aggressive too.
What I am worried is the differential between what may be expected from him and what he is talented to do.
He can be an effective PG in this league BUT he will NEVER be a pass first PG and to try to make him that is basically wasting his talent and probably ruining him.
Slimjr
October 10th, 2012
10:36 am
Yes Teague will be much less of a concern with the new [Star] guards stepping onto the court..
Lou and Devin will be an awesome combo.Just terrorizing folks..
Najeh Davenpoop
October 10th, 2012
10:42 am
“Hawks fans, I think we will spend most of the season hoping the jumpers are falling, because I think that will be our offense again.”
The good news is that Morrow, Jenkins, and Korver will likely knock down those jumpers at a higher clip than the Hawks’ wings have done in the past.
This is a transition roster, so it’s unrealistic to expect that they won’t struggle at some aspects of the game, the low post game being one of them. I think it’s realistic to expect them to have a similar season as the Golden State Warriors team from a few years ago that won the 8 seed in the West and upset the #1 Mavs before losing in the second round. Not saying the Hawks will go that far in the playoffs, but I think they are likely to play a similar up-tempo style with questionable defense and be roughly a similar caliber team.
Marvin, Horford and Jon Kontract
October 10th, 2012
10:44 am
Mike Woodson also stopped the natural flow of the offense to help Al horford, by trying to post him up, running switch plays to help him on both offense and defense. He set double and triple picks to help Al get involved. With all that Al increased his production a mere 2 ppg from 12ppg to 14ppg.
There is no more excuses for Al’s mediocrity.
HOW LONG DO WE HAVE TO BE A PROJECT DEVELOPMENT TEAM?
We have seen enough of Al to know that we don’t get past the second round with Mediocre Al. No only is Al average (or below) offensively but he runs a professional escort service on defense.
Time to dump Al if we plan on going any higher… if we are seriously in pursuit of a championship. No star is going to come here knowing he’s got to carry the dead weight of Al horford
Slimjr
October 10th, 2012
10:44 am
Both guards can carve up a defense like Swiss cheese and either launch their outstanding jumpers or deliver to the bigs for layups.
That’s how you help your teammate like the Allstar with a very weak handle and zero post game [as Big Ray so decisively explained] last night, deliver the ball to him near the rim ie, Magic to Worthy..
Najeh Davenpoop
October 10th, 2012
10:47 am
That Golden State team had a small back court with Baron Davis and Monta Ellis and led the league in 3 pointers attempted thanks to a really deep set of wings, very little front court depth, and the fastest pace in the league. They finished 11th in offensive rating and 19th in defensive rating. The Hawks are constructed differently, with more front court depth and less wing depth, but I think it’s fair to expect a similar finish in offensive and defensive rating and in the standings with the personnel on the current roster.
Marvin, Horford and Jon Kontract
October 10th, 2012
10:48 am
“Lou and Devin will be an awesome combo.Just terrorizing folks..”
Is AllNBA Championship material?
Not in this time line..
As usual, it will be guard play that will take this team as far as their talent will take them..The bigs will be along for the ride…
Watch the #5 disappear in the playoffs like his buddy down the street Choke Jones..
Well at least 1 of your guys seems to understand the game.
Al’s play off stats? 11pts 7rbs… you know the drill.
Astro Joe
October 10th, 2012
10:56 am
It will be fascinating to watch the dynamics of an uptempo offense in Josh’s last contract year. The 22 YO Josh would likely thrive in such an offense, as long as he sprinted down the floor and filled the wing on fast breaks. But after enduring the pain fo banged up ankles and knees, I’m not as convinced that Josh will enjoy participating in a 48 minute relay race. Will Josh morph into Al Harrington?
MsDee
October 10th, 2012
11:13 am
vava74,
“Same applies to Horford. He has ONE semi-reliable move in the post: he establishes in the left side of the box, receives, drives left into the lane and drops a half hook.”
When u dont have a coach who emphasizes post plays for your post players, u DARN RIGHT HE WILL USE HIS ONE BREAD AND BUTTER move since he knows THAT’S IT the rest of the game. You not gonna try nothing new since u have 1 shot at it a night. Like I said a few blogs ago, cant remember the game but it was a couple of seasons ago when Horford had the ball thrown to him in the post about 3 or 4 consecutive possessions and he delivered all 4 times including an AND1. But for SOME STRANGE REASON, both Josh and Joe stopped going to him and of course, THAT’S ALL SHE WROTE. And its funny how all Horford haters say he doesn’t have a post game, but I have a question for yall, HOW DO U REALLY KNOW HE DOESNT HAVE ONE, WHEN DREW, JOE NOR JOSH GOES TO HIM ON A CONSISTENT BASIS??? The only way yall could be close to being right is if and when they go to him 4 consecutive times and he doesn’t deliver.
“He (Teague) can be an effective PG in this league BUT he will NEVER be a pass first PG and to try to make him that is basically wasting his talent and probably ruining him.”
NOT TRUE again VAVA74,
Teague passed the ball and would set Zaza up MANY of times with a nice bounce pass RIGHT THERE at the freakin basket, just to see him pump fake to death just to come up with no shot and a missed FT. Horford wasnt around last season to help increase his assist ratings. And now with all the shooters he can pass so this season, just not sure how u can say that Teague will NEVER be a pass 1st PG.
Buddy Grizzard
October 10th, 2012
11:36 am
“He has ONE semi-reliable move in the post: he establishes in the left side of the box, receives, drives left into the lane and drops a half hook.”
Not true. In the Heat game he executed a drop step to the baseline from the right block and powered it in off glass with his right hand.
Buddy Grizzard
October 10th, 2012
11:36 am
Ivan did the exact same move for 2 of his 4 points for the game.
Buddy Grizzard
October 10th, 2012
11:45 am
“I think they are likely to play a similar up-tempo style with questionable defense and be roughly a similar caliber team.”
Don’t know why you think the defense will be questionable when we have one of the deepest front lines and point guard rotations in the league and one of the best defensive utility specialists in the league on the wing (Stevenson). Yes, our wing depth presents problems, but if LD wants to put a defensive lineup out there, we have the available talent to do it.
O'Brien
October 10th, 2012
11:51 am
Slimjr,
Is All NBA Championship material? Not in this time line...
Did anybody say Al is “championship material? Mario Chalmers was the starting PG on a team that won the NBA championship. Is Mario Chalmers even one of the 10 best PGs in the NBA? Nope, but that didn’t stop him from winning a championship as Miami’s starting PG. Is Joel Anthony Championship material?
It’s like you go out of your way to criticize Al, and I don’t know why. Most of us admit that Al is what he is. A solid player overall (especially when he plays like Boss Al), but he has his limitations, and is not good enough to be a #1 option on a title contending team.
You’re like a broken record playing the same thing over and over. Why? And answer me this. Is Josh Smith good enough to be a #1 option on a title contending team?
AG
October 10th, 2012
12:02 pm
Ms. Dee, finally someone who watched Hawks games! I do beg to differ on one point. Not only did ZaZa pump fake forever – then he would get his shot blocked.
I don’t think Jeff should be a pass first point guard. When he is playing his game, his assist will come with the flow of the game. I was at the game when he finished with 24 points, 15 assists. He can actually do both.
darrell starks
October 10th, 2012
12:11 pm
Al is not a low post score, more of a spot up shooter, Josh playing SF and getting the ball in the post is the best advantage for the Hawks, Zaza is your Hustler around the rim giving them more opportunity for second chance points.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
October 10th, 2012
12:12 pm
Danny Ferry has to find a defensive center in the post 2 backup Zaza.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jlewis
October 10th, 2012
12:28 pm
I know a lot of us that have played, watched or coached basketball, know that if you shoot the basketball that fast you cant have a post up game, lol. Also, there is an assumption that the shooters will be open from doubling the post, we dont have anyone thats going to draw a double team. The only double team player we had was Joe, and Josh when he got hot in the second half of last season.
Remember, the assumption is, the longer you have been in the league the further you get from the basket, Josh will have such a workload he will not be able to battle like that every night, therefore, more jumpers.
brigadierjerry
October 10th, 2012
12:28 pm
obrien,
not worth it. i used to try with slimjr but he doesnt like horford. it is what it is. i just scroll down. i think if horford avg 16 and 11 slimjr would have a problem.
all the points u said on horford i agree and have said many times but i stopped arguing about it.
funny thing is game is now more wing and guard oriented than post play which is basically outside of 2-3 low post centers nonexistent.
if u have a chance,read grantland’s piece on nba season. states hawks have chance to be up to 4 or 5 seed as a ceiling this year
Just Joe
October 10th, 2012
12:35 pm
IMO, we need Teague to defend first and score second. Setting up his teammates should be a distant third. I want Teague harrassing people on D, attacking the basket, finishing, drawing fouls, and passing out of trouble when necessary. See Tony Parker’s offensive stats for reference. I would go as far as to say that our first option on offense should be dribble penetration by Teague.
CoachG30
October 10th, 2012
12:44 pm
Umm to all you fans that think that trading Horford is the answer then just know you would be trading the team’s “true” leader.
And those PPG avg that you posted between Al Jefferson and Al Horford….guess what. Al Jefferson was the NUMBER 1 option where he played, whereas Horford had to watch Joe dribble around and jack up a fadeaway jump shot for 5 years or Josh Smith jack up a three.
That skews the numbers a bit.
No Doubt Horford increases production this year with more touches
vava74
October 10th, 2012
1:42 pm
Buddy,
I was talking about semi-reliable moves. I don’t think that ONE play in an exhibition game qualifies for a move to be considered semi-reliable.
I hope that he does have that move and that he can rely on it. I am not a Horford hater, I am a Horford critic, which is quite a different matter.
vava74
October 10th, 2012
1:46 pm
MsDee,
If you can’t distinguish between someone who is a critic from someone who is a hater…
I will give you this: Big Ray is about as balanced and respectable as anyone can be around these parts and he shares my view on Horford’s game. I think I am backed in my CRITICISM by bloggers who have balanced views on the Hawks and on the game of basketball.
As for the Teague not being a viable pass first PG, I stand for that and time will prove me right over and over and over.
Being a pass first PG is something you are born with. Teague is a scorer who can pass. I have always said that IMO Teague actually made good entry passes (when he does not get careless), but HIS game is to run and score and THEN pass.
When he is playing “happy”, running like a rabbit and feeding from his own energy and his own dunks, then his game rounds up.
If you tell him, PASS FIRST, he wilts.
Hawks off and running, but Horford still wants ball in post | ProBasketballTalk
October 10th, 2012
5:21 pm
[...] much so that they haven’t worked on post play yet in camp — and Al Horford wants to. Here is what he told the Atlanta Journal Constitution. “You need to have an inside presence,” Horford said. “You can’t just sit around and shoot [...]
SH Blog: Dirk Nowitzki’s knee acting up, Deron Williams did not want King to wait on Howard | Sports Book Gambling
October 11th, 2012
12:17 am
[...] Al Horford emphasized the importance of post presence and defense in order for the Hawks to succeed, from Chris Vivlamore of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution: “Horford said the Hawks yet to introduce the low-post offense during training camp. “You need to have an inside presence,” Horford said. “You can’t just sit around and shoot jumpers all day. We have to have a paint presence. We have to establish that. In camp, we have really been focusing on the defensive stuff and getting out and running but at some point we are going to have to address it.” In keeping with the Hawks’ philosophy, it all starts with defense. “First and foremost to be an up-tempo team, you have to get stops,” Smith said. “You can be an up-tempo team, how Golden State was four or five years ago and run-and-gun and try to outscore teams, but in the Eastern Conference you have to play defense in order to win basketball games. In order for us to be an up-tempo team we have to get stops first. When you get stops it makes it easier to get fast-break points.” [...]