Atlanta Hawks practice report: Reaction to anti-flopping




Vivlamore reporting from Hawks practice.

Hawks coaches and players applauded the NBA’s effort to eliminate flopping from their game Thursday. They admit it won’t be easy.

The NBA announced an anti-flopping rule on Wednesday with an increasing fine schedule for multiple offenders. According to the league flopping will be defined as any physical act that appears to have been intended to cause the referees to call a foul on another player.

“I think it’s needed,” Hawks guard Kyle Korver said following Thursday’s training camp practice. “It’s become too big a part of the game. I think it takes away from the purity of the game. The fear is that it ends up like European soccer where there is all kinds of flopping. Nobody wants that. It’s disgusting.”

Coach Larry Drew said the possibility of the anti-flopping rule was discussed at the coaches meeting, held in Chicago this summer. While Drew said he understands seriousness of the league’s intent, he’s not sure how successful it will be initially.

“As far as fully eliminating it, I just don’t see how that is going to work at this point,” Drew said. “They are really going to have to look at this thing very closely. Deciding what is a flop and what is not a flop, I think it’s going to be tough. I really do. They sound like it’s something they are going to be adamant about to totally eliminate it from our game. But I’m going to be curious how this whole thing works out.”

Players will be warned for a first offense. They will be fined $5,000 for a second violation, $10,000 for a third, $15,000 for a fourth and $30,000 for a fifth time offense. Six or more could lead to a suspension.

The NBA players’ association plans to file a grievance with the league office because it was not consulted about the new rule. Union executive director Billy Hunter said the league cannot institute a rule with financial discipline without it being collectively bargained. The NBA has countered that the rule is well within its rights.

“I think it’s a good idea because flopping has taken on a life of its own,” Korver said. “It’s become part of the game and it’s a shame because I think it ruins the game. I think there is a lot of gray area. I think they are going to have a hard time enforcing it. But, they are going to make their decision and we’re going to have to roll with it. We can talk bad about it all we want, but whatever they say is going to go in the end.”

Key to the rule is that flops will not be called by on-court officials. Incidents will be determined following video review by the league office. Drew said he is glad that such a call will not directly impact a game, either the outcome or the flow. The coach admitted there are players in the league who exaggerate contact much more than others.

“Shameless flopping, that’s a chump move,” the Lakers’ Kobe Bryant told Los Angeles reporters Wednesday. “We’re familiar with it. Vlade (Divac) kind of pioneered it in that playoff series against [Shaquille O’Neal], and it kind of worked for him.”

Drew said Thursday he will not coach his players any differently in light of the new rule.

“I’m going to be consistent with how I’ve coached in the past as far as defense is concerned,” Drew said. “We have to make sure when we go out there that we don’t do too much thinking about what’s going to be called – what’s going to be allowed, what’s not going to be allowed.”

In other news:

* Zaza Pachulia, Devin Harris and DeShawn Stevenson were limited practice participants Thursday. Drew said the team is continuing to be cautious with the players.

* For the third straight day, Harris stayed well after practice doing shooting drills.

* Drew said the focus from practice, for a third straight day, was defense.

* The Hawks canceled a scheduled evening practice and were on the court for a morning session that lasted well  over three hours.

* Tomorrow I will have a pretty cool story on Kyle Korver’s trade adventure.

- Chris Vivlamore

THE LATEST NEWS

* Q and A with DeShawn Stevenson

* Healthy Horford part of  revamped roster

* Day Two of practice gets feisty

* NBA adopts anti-flopping rule

* Drew entering his free-agent year

* Still defense first with new up-tempo offense

* Pachulia, Harris limited in first practice

Follow me on Twitter at ajchawks

27 comments Add your comment

doc

October 4th, 2012
4:47 pm

bout time

now if they do it to the lbj then cool

Buddy G

October 4th, 2012
4:48 pm

C-Viv… does Korver use the word “bummer” in your interview?

As far as stopping the flop, as Henry Abott says, this is a baby step. The league is acknowledging it and it will result in negative publicity for certain players. It remains to be seen if they will be fined since that wasn’t collectively bargained and the players association is challenging it.

I think this will take us in the direction of more use of instant replay in-game, which is a good thing. It takes away ref’s discretion and we all know refs favor superstars.

doc

October 4th, 2012
4:51 pm

other thing to do is tell officials to not call a charge unless there is significant contact, which also means a guy does not have to hit the ground to have it called. it is very funny to se alight weight hit lbj and he goes down and dont call it when he roars over josh a few years back and josh doesnt go all the way down nor get the call. charge is a charge not based on how far to the court someone falls.

MsDee

October 4th, 2012
5:00 pm

I dont think it will be all that serious as far as the fines are concerned. I just think the league is basically telling players to not purposely flop and to be watchful cause the league will not be tolorating that fooishness any longer.

Astro Joe

October 4th, 2012
5:12 pm

I think they will need to find another way to enforce the rule other than a personal fine to the player. Maybe after 2 flops per team per quarter, the opposing team goes into the bonus and shoots free throws on every subsequent foul (and flop). I simply don’t see the NBAPA allowing players to be fined for flopping like they may be fined for throwing a punch.

Why do I have this feeling that Stevenson is already heading toward that “every 3rd game” role that TMac played for us last season?

vava74

October 4th, 2012
5:38 pm

AJ,

No in-game penalty. Strictly video post-game discipline.

By the way, if you’re a player who needs to flop to win a playoff game, what will you do, sacrifice your team for 50.000? A guy who in the worst case scenario earns hundreds of thousands??

You need to issue suspensions.

Slimjr

October 4th, 2012
5:40 pm

1st flop is a warning, 2nd flop should be a point deduction for the team..

BJerry, I would only consider trading Horford to Minnesota for Williams and picks..

Did you see how Carmelo shut him down in the Olympics? Oh the humanity..

Last I checked Anthony plays the 3? Hmmmm

NATIVE SON

October 4th, 2012
6:16 pm

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!!!!! Wade, and Lebron are each up for about 50,Ks

Jae Evolution

October 4th, 2012
6:19 pm

BOB FROM ACCOUNT TEMPS

October 4th, 2012
6:28 pm

AND, the players union immediately demanded that the preseason be extended so players could attend acting classes at the owners expense

Astro Joe

October 4th, 2012
8:12 pm

Vava, I somehow missed that (post-game video review). I like it even less now (the execution, not the concept). If you’re looking to correct behavior, doing it after the fact doesn’t make too much sense to me.

RichB

October 4th, 2012
9:49 pm

I think Manu Ginobli might be in for a painful-on-the-pocketbook season!

Nite Owl

October 4th, 2012
10:28 pm

@Jae:

That…was hilarious. Nice job finding that. Asik went down like he was shot, and nobody touched him.

Najeh Davenpoop

October 4th, 2012
11:58 pm

Haha. Jae beat me to it. Who the hell is Korver to be complaining about anti-flopping rules?

Najeh Davenpoop

October 4th, 2012
11:59 pm

” I simply don’t see the NBAPA allowing players to be fined for flopping like they may be fined for throwing a punch.”

Wojnarowski has a pretty good column on Yahoo today about how the NBAPA isn’t going to do sh-t because all Billy Hunter cares about is making sure he gets paid.

vava74

October 5th, 2012
3:04 am

AJ,

That data on Josh Smith was interesting and it confirms my visual perception that Josh shoots particularly poorly from long and midrange when he does it from the right side of the court.

So, it tells us that, IF Josh:

- Stopped shooting from 3; and
- Stopped shooting the midrange shot from the right hand side of the court, he would be a slightly above average (or at least average) midrange shooter.

vava74

October 5th, 2012
3:09 am

Another interesting piece of data:

The least efficient:
1. John Wall WAS 22.0%
2. Richard Jefferson GSW/SAS 27.8%
3. Tyreke Evans SAC 28.1%
4. Andre Iguodola PHI 31.3%
5. Monta Ellis GSW/MIL 32.0%

Two guys getting a LOT of love from some of the people in the blog ARE worst midrange shooters than Josh:

Tyreke and Monta!!!

And Igoudala – of Olympic and All Star recognition – also.

vava74

October 5th, 2012
3:30 am

Yet another fact:

Garnett’s long twos are a tad closer than Josh’s and are more concentrated on “sweet spots”.

Maybe that small differential in distance and concentration on sweet spots could be one of the biggest factors behind Josh’s lack of accuracy.

Now that we will be finally leaving the dark ages of basketball and use ANALYTICS maybe Josh will get it and be more selective with his shots (length and location).

I can visualise Sund and LD telling Josh – tamely -: “Hey Josh, your long twos are not going down, maybe you should play closer to the basket… unfortunately, we don’t have any analytics to show you, but it’s our impression…” and Josh replying “nah… didn’t you just see me hit that jumper 3rd quarter jumper last game? It’s on the highlights.” End of conversation.

Harry Hawk

October 5th, 2012
3:34 am

I guess Kobe never flops…

Big Ray

October 5th, 2012
3:49 am

Vava ,

The truth on Josh Smith’s jumpers is kinda scary. I believe that he can actually hit consistently from 15-18 feet if he works hard on it. Problem is his wind-up is a little slow. Teams back off of him because he doesn’t hit it nearly consistently enough. When he does, though…it looks darn good. But it just isn’t consistent enough.

If he does get good at it, he’ll then be able to drive and REALLY hurt guys, that’s when you have a 20 ppg scorer in Josh. Until then…not quite. Still, he doesn’t have to be a 20 ppg scorer to be an all-star level player. He was all-star level last season with Horford out. Can he do it with Horford in there? Hope so.

Big Ray

October 5th, 2012
3:49 am

No flopping…ha….somebody tell Anderson Varejao he’s out of the NBA now…

Big Ray

October 5th, 2012
3:52 am

AJ ,

I hate to say it, but I think you’re absolutely right on DeShawn Stevenson’s role. If not him, it will be somebody else who should be playing more and won’t, under LD.

Good Lord, I can’t wait to see who Ferry hires to replace him in the summer of 2013….

Jimmy Crack

October 5th, 2012
7:41 am

Way to step up NBA.

The NFL is next. For football they should give each coach a blue flag to throw when some player flops. The blue flag requests instant replay to show the flop and avoid a 15 yard penalty. If there’s no flop, it a loss of a timeout. If it is a flop, the flopping team gets 5 yards and player gets fined $1000. Everything escalates for multiple flopping infractions.

Robert

October 5th, 2012
8:03 am

I remember back in the 1970’s when news rules were put in place to keep Black players from dominating White players. Referee’s were allowed to make judgement calls such as “charging” which meant a player could stand in the way and get run over rather than try to play good defense and block the players shot. Colleges did not allow players to dunk because Black players jumped higher than White players (aka David Thompson/Monte Towe created the “ally-opp”). “Flopping” was born out of the need for White players to be more competitive due to their defensive weaknesses. How can the NBA change the culture that allowed “charging” and “flopping” as a means of playing defense to compensate for the lack of talent by White players?

doc

October 5th, 2012
8:39 am

robert, yawn.

robert, poor robert, i guess i could try to be rational and dispute your claim. my guess is, you are not one for rational thought so i will end it here as will others is my guess.

have a good day though and weekend. first hint of fall coming and that should be thought of as a blessing, so be blessed soul.

doc

October 5th, 2012
8:52 am

aj i saw a pictogram of josh’s shots and i guess one could jump on the bad but there was good there in that from certain areas he can make it at a pretty reasonable rate and improve from there as his confidence grows. ray you and vava have spoken of this and i think there is some hope going forward.

it will take a discipline from josh as well as a disciplined offense to get him the ball where he needs it. the latter is probably more important and one neither ld has been able to put across and good lord woody’d never approached. there have been undertones of how jj’s game has hurt them as he was the one getting the ball where he needed it but maybe he didnt get them the ball where they needed it.

shaq said it most directly and loudly in wrapping up things on the jj story and what it means going forward, jj was a good and significant player for the hawks but was a BALL STOPPER. so maybe josh and al will get the ball more to their liking this year. if so, it will be up to them to deliver and make up for the loss of jj. i think they can. we will also need to see how the compensations occur on defense. this is most important as well. will it be, whether jj and marvin were really forces there that folks seem to be concerned that they were and will be missed or whether they werent that important and with effort will it be a non-entity?

MsDee

October 5th, 2012
9:02 am

JOE JOHNSON: I DIDNT BURN ATLANTA

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. — Joe Johnson wanted to set the record straight on Thursday, telling reporters that he never asked out of Atlanta.

“Everybody thinks I made this trade,” the Nets’ shooting guard said. “I had nothing to do with it.

“Every time I run into somebody when I’m in Atlanta, they ask me, ‘Why did you leave?’
I didn’t have nothing to do with it. I’m just glad that I came to a great organization and a team who wants to win.”

Johnson, who was acquired by the Nets in a blockbuster trade, was originally asked if he thought he’d be booed when he returned to Atlanta. The Hawks host the Nets on Jan. 16.

“It’ll probably be some boos, it’ll probably be some cheers,” he replied. “I have no idea, man. What do you think?”