Atlanta Hawks practice report: Day 2 gets feisty

Vivlamore reporting.

Here is today’s practice report from Day 2 of training camp practices.

* Zaza Pachulia (leg) and Devin Harris (knee) again practiced on a limited basis. They sat out contact drills, including 5-on-5 sets. Coach Larry Drew said the team is being cautious with the veterans.

“They both are moving really well on the floor but we’ll keep an eye on them day-to-day,” Drew said.

* Drew said that players got a little edgy in some of the drills, particularly on the defensive end. The confrontations occurred before the media was allowed in to watch the last half hour of practice but it didn’t sound like anything serious.

“We had some guys starting to go at it a little bit,” Drew said. “I embrace that because I can see they are all being competitive and they are all committed to defending.”

* Not being able to see much of practice, it’s hard to get a real grasp on the players’ conditioning. I did get to see some running and two players stood out. Ivan Johnson easily – and I mean easily – finished ahead of the group of big men. Kyle Korver was tops among the others.

Johnson told me the other day that he spent half his summer in Dallas and the other half in California working out. When I asked what exactly he did, Johnson said “Basketball drills. Weight lifting. A whole bunch of running. Running up mountains. Running on the beach.” It looked it.

Drew said he is pleased with the overall condition of the team.

* It’s hard to say who is leading in the race to join Josh Smith, Al Horford and Jeff Teague in the starting lineup. I can report that Kyle Korver and DeShawn Stevenson ran with them during 5-on-5 drills. Keep in mind, Harris did not participate in those drills.

* Smith has been extremely vocal during the first two days of practice. I’ve seen him instructing others on the offense, making sure the new players are positioned right and showing a competitive edge during drills.

* Further proof that the Hawks will run an up-tempo offense. The 5-on-5 drills were run with an 18-second shot clock.

* Drew is slowly implementing the new offense. He said players had a better grasp of it this morning than during the second session last night. Drew did admit that rookies John Jenkins and Mike Scott were “lost” during the process.

“They’ll get it,” Drew said. “We threw a lot at them yesterday. They’ll pick it up. I’m not concerned about that one little bit.”

* Jenkins has been working at the 2-guard spot.

* With an entire new offensive to install, Drew said it would be some time before it’s all in. In fact, he said it may not be completely installed by the regular-season opener Nov. 2.

“To get everything put it, it would be ludicrous for me to say we’ll get it all in before the first regular-season game,” Drew said. “We will not have it all in. I’m going to gradually put things in mindful of the fact that the things we already have in and the things they are picking up, I can’t give them too much. I want to get good in certain areas first.”

I will post another blog on the NBA’s new no-flopping rule they just released.

- Chris Vivlamore

THE LATEST NEWS

* Drew entering his free-agent year

* Still defense first with new up-tempo offense

* Pachulia, Harris limited in first practice

* Assorted quotes from media day

* Video: My report from media day

* Josh Smith calls himself a “Mid-range Shawty”

* Five questions headed into training camp

Follow me on Twitter at ajchawks

24 comments Add your comment

Buddy Grizzard

October 3rd, 2012
2:55 pm

“Ivan Johnson easily – and I mean easily – finished ahead of the group of big men.”

Going to be a fun season. Thanks C-Viv.

vava74

October 3rd, 2012
2:57 pm

Great job C-Viv.

Glad to see Ivan continues to mean business. I am sure that he was one of the guys causing attraction.

No nonsense kind of dude.

Easily worth 2.5 million per season. Only with a bunch of blind GMs we managed to keep him at the minimum. :-D

Hawks Fan

October 3rd, 2012
3:07 pm

Maybe I am missing something but I have seen on the other blogs that everyone is intent on trading Al? WHY!?!?!!? This amounts to the big talk of trading Josh! DONT DO IT! Al is not and has not been an All Star playing out of position for nothing! This guy comes to work and works hard and does it every night! Yet we want to trade him? DONT DO IT! This combo with Josh and Al at the Power and at the Small is going to prove to be one of the most lethal combos in the NBA this year if they both stay healthy! Watch what happens! I am a Al fan much like I am a Josh fan! Build on these blocks and watch what happens.

Ludicrous

October 3rd, 2012
3:11 pm

Man.If All our big men had that kind of fight!

Josh is the leader of this team.

Cant wait to see the no flopping rules. Who was last years flop kings. I dont think the hawks had any.

On the trade Al for Al movement, Here are the numbers over the last 5 years.

Rebounds/Blocks/ Pt’s – Last 5 years

2007–08 Jefferson 11.1 1.5 21.0 VS Horford 9.7 0.9 10.0
2008–09 Jefferson 11.8 1.7 23.1 VS Horford 9.3 1.4 11.5
2009–10 Jefferson 9.3 1.3 17.1 VS Horford 9.9 1.0 14.2
2010–11 Jefferson 9.7 1.9 18.6 VS Horford 9.3 1.3 15.3
2011–12 Jefferson 9.6 1.7 19.2 VS Horford 7.0 1.1 12.8

Ludicrous

October 3rd, 2012
3:18 pm

It wont hurt to let Ivan play the 3 He can score. and defend Lebron.

Imagine

Harris
Williams
Ivan
Josh
Jefferson

Thats a very very nice team that is capable of winning our conference

Ra'mon

October 3rd, 2012
3:24 pm

Wow, I like that line up. Think about the fiery practices that will happen in scrimmages.

Teague – Stevenson – Korver – Josh – Al

vs.

Harris – Lou – Morrow – Ivan – Zaza

With Jenkins, Scott, James, Tolliver, Anderson subbing in through out. This team definitely has some play makers. Ivan and Zaza will make Josh and Al work for EVERYTHING in practice without backing down for any reason. And guarding Harris in practice, will only be good for Teague, as the same with Stevenson guarding Lou. Morrow and Korver are essentially a draw when matched up.

jhan

October 3rd, 2012
3:29 pm

Al Jefferson could never keep up with this squad. He is a plodder not a runner.

i_am_soulstar

October 3rd, 2012
3:32 pm

Man.If All our big men had that kind of fight!

Josh is the leader of this team.

Cant wait to see the no flopping rules. Who was last years flop kings. I dont think the hawks had any.

On the trade Al for Al movement, Here are the numbers over the last 5 years.

Rebounds/Blocks/ Pt’s – Last 5 years

2007–08 Jefferson 11.1 1.5 21.0 VS Horford 9.7 0.9 10.0
2008–09 Jefferson 11.8 1.7 23.1 VS Horford 9.3 1.4 11.5
2009–10 Jefferson 9.3 1.3 17.1 VS Horford 9.9 1.0 14.2
2010–11 Jefferson 9.7 1.9 18.6 VS Horford 9.3 1.3 15.3
2011–12 Jefferson 9.6 1.7 19.2 VS Horford 7.0 1.1 12.8
*****************************************************************************************

Gotta look at the shot attempts at FG% also. Horford has had a higher FG% the past three seasons with a lot less shot attempts, which may admittedly be a result of not being the number 1 offensive option on his team. Jefferson’s definitely the better rebounder though.

Horford’s probably a better complete player and offensive center, but I’d the edge to Jefferson as far as being the best defensive center.

But we didn’t really get to see Al do his thing last year, so I’m looking forward to seeing if this will be breakout year for him.

Ludicrous

October 3rd, 2012
3:32 pm

” I am missing something but I have seen on the other blogs that everyone is intent on trading All” – Hawks Fan

Where have you been the last 3 years?

The object is to win and get past the second round. The consensus is you cant do that with the mediocre play of Al. The fans and natives are getting restless, wanting to upgrade horford. Most of them don’t think its made better by moving Josh to the 3 to help Al find a position. Now you have not only move Josh out of position but you now have lowered the level of play at power forward from amongst the best to mediocre.

Its a non argument that Josh is a far superior PF and that is his favorite position. so we will not be moving Josh who is one of the best in the NBA at the position. Which means Al needs to find another position or accept a trade.

Me personally Id like to keep Al and have him come off the bench. Hes still get the minutes but he is not the kind of guy to take you higher. He proved that with his 7 turnover performance in the deciding game of the playoffs and the hawks season.

Al makes too much money for 12pt career average, which by the way was his average last year… again. So its better to trade him for some one who can take the hawks to the next level and who is available . The consensus is Al Jefferson is capable. His numbers are compared with Al’s at the top of the blog.

Have a great day. I’m out.

Just Joe

October 3rd, 2012
3:36 pm

Harris & Jefferson played together last year, and were swept from the 1st rd of the playoffs. One guy was traded for Marvin Williams, and the other guy will not be in Utah after this year.

I would hope that we could put more talent around Josh than that.

i_am_soulstar

October 3rd, 2012
3:38 pm

shot attempts and FG%*

Melvin

October 3rd, 2012
3:44 pm

” With an entire new offensive to install, Drew said it would be some time before it’s all in. In fact, he said it may not be completely installed by the regular-season opener Nov.”

My gosh, how complex does an offense needs to be. I will let Astro Joe weight in on this one…

Ludicrous

October 3rd, 2012
3:52 pm

i_am_soulstar

Gotta look at the shot attempts at FG% also. Horford has had a higher FG% the past three seasons with a lot less shot attempts, which may admittedly be a result of not being the number 1 offensive option on his team. Jefferson’s definitely the better rebounder though.

Horford’s probably a better complete player and offensive center, but I’d the edge to Jefferson as far as being the best defensive center.

““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““

Beg to disagree soulstar , at least in part. by the numbers Jefferson is better defensively I agree but he is even better on pts scored and having offensive tools and skill sets to get us far.

In the last 5 years the guy has average virtually 20pts a game 3 times… we dont have anybody on that planet. Maybe Josh will get there but we are talking a center.

As for the shooting pct…really. both average over 50% as did 14 other centers in the NBA last year. You are suppose to shoot better than 50 % standing under the bucket. There is not enough meat on the bones to favor 1 guy who shoots 52 percent over another guy who shoots 51%

If that was a significant stat the question would be how many shots is he taking. If I take 10 and make 5 that 50% but if I take 100 and make 48 then thats 48% but I would not say the guy who only took 10 shot is better or if his number would hold up if he were the #1 option on offense.

The point is Jefferson is an offensive 1 or 2option and changes the elements of the game in ways Al can not.

I agree Jefferson is better defensively and the numbers clearly show that. But even more clear is that Jefferson is a much better offensive weapon than Al.

I again am going on record as saying Id like to keep Al as a back up to Josh and the center but the reality is for us to get Jefferson Al has to go.

I also dont want to be here again next year saying the same ol thing We need a center….

Have a great day. Im out for real this time.

falCans

October 3rd, 2012
3:54 pm

Al WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN AN ALL STAR AT POWER FORWARD!!!!… 10 mill a year for 12ppg & 9rpg?? Zaza can do that at half price. Al was lucky to play C at a time when TGERE WERE NO CENTERS ON THE EAST

TRADE HIM

MsDee

October 3rd, 2012
4:00 pm

Hay, U guys, chk out the videos on Hawks.com. U will see some back ground plays of Horford driving to the baskets and Benson getting another block on someone.

Ludicrous

October 3rd, 2012
4:08 pm

Al WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN AN ALL STAR AT POWER FORWARD!!!!… 10 mill a year for 12ppg & 9rpg?? Zaza can do that at half price. Al was lucky to play C at a time when TGERE WERE NO CENTERS ON THE EAST

TRADE HIM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I believe that’s 12,000,000 per year.

Atlanta walt

October 3rd, 2012
4:17 pm

We will go as far as our team defense will take us , if we get a commitment from this team to play defence we should do very well this year, want to see josh smith grow up , command the floor and demand the ball.if he step up and become a real leader I’m predicting ec finals.go Hawks

Big Ray

October 3rd, 2012
4:23 pm

And I say again – Utah will not do that deal. Jefferson fits their offense…he’s their number 1 option. and as Jhan said, Jefferson is way too slow to fit the style this offense will be playing.

If Ferry wanted him, he would have gone after him. and as I said on the last blog….don’t think Ferry doesn’t or won’t consider trading Al for another player…but it has to be the right deal. No team with a starting caliber center will do that deal unless A) they need/want to get rid of the player they have…which means we should be wary of WHY or B) They think Horford is better.

Doing a deal for a starting swingman and some backup center is not necessarily a good deal unless that backup center is a better player than Pachulia and the swingman is better than average on defense AND offense. Yet to hear a likely deal along those lines, but who knows.

With Ferry, anything is possible at this point. He went after Dwight Howard, after all. But we all knew the Lakers or Nets were going to get him anyway….Orlando was not about to trade him inside the division.

Atlanta walt

October 3rd, 2012
4:24 pm

Yeah I know Al is over paid, but trade him for what Al Jefferson no way that would totally slow down the offence, he is also undersized so that would never make sence, how about lets wait and see till the all-star break , then we would truly know if he needs to go

CSP

October 3rd, 2012
4:25 pm

Really looking forward to seeing what this team looks like on the court…

ctrim

October 3rd, 2012
4:25 pm

Yawn, same posts by same people using different mames on trading Al. Appears someone has mastered the art of copy and paste. Look forward to watching Al and Josh this year in a leadership roll.

Big Ray

October 3rd, 2012
4:30 pm

10 mill a year for 12ppg & 9rpg?? Zaza can do that at half price.

1) Zaza was once a starter full time on this team. He couldn’t do it then, and he can’t do it now.

2) 12 and 9 is Al’s career average after not being the #1, #2, or #3 option on offense since he’s been here.

You’re ignoring that he has increased his production in FULL seasons. Last year he played in 11 games and average 12 and 7. But look at ‘09-’10. He basically put up 14 and 10. Then he put up 15 and 9 in ‘10-’11.

Better than Al Jefferson? Nope. But Al Jefferson is consistently option #1 or at worst, #2 on his team. And he puts up 19 a game with a lower field goal percentage.

Melvin

October 3rd, 2012
4:41 pm

Big Ray,

Glad to see you still around. Will there be a Hawks nest blog this season?

Also, even though I hate to enter the Horford talk that goes from blog to blog but what do you think about an Horford for Greg Monroe/Corey Maggette trade. Hawks may have to add another player (Deshawn/Petro) to make the salaries work. Hawks would get a young big that can play 4/5 along with a scoring wing that’s a pretty decent defender and expiring contract.

Just Joe

October 3rd, 2012
4:47 pm

Al Horford & Kyle Korver to Philly for Evan Turner, Thad Young, and Spencer Hawes. Which team says no?

Holiday, NYoung/JRich, Korver/Wright, Horford, Bynum

Teague, Turner/LouWill, ThadYoung, Smith, Hawes/Pachulia

What are the blog thoughts on Evan Turner? Since you’d be taking on more salary in this deal, you’d have to believe that he was one of your future stars.

Could starting two combo-forwards like Smith & Thad work?

Purely conversational since the theme of the day seems to be “trade Al Horford”.