Atlanta Hawks: Former coach Bob Weiss returns as adviser

Hawks GM Danny Ferry’s efforts to move the franchise’s player development program forward will include a reach back to the team’s past.

Former Hawks coach Bob Weiss is set to join Larry Drew’s staff as a coach and consultant. Weiss will be heavily involved in developing players and will sit behind the bench during games.

Drew said he had considered hiring an assistant with previous head coaching experience when he got the Hawks job in the summer of 2010.

“Somebody who could really watch and look at the big picture of the team, be that birdie on my shoulder as far as suggestions and ideals and what he sees,” Drew said. “I started interviewing and compiling a list of guys. I met with Bob for a second interview and I thought he was the perfect guy from a consultant standpoint.

“He will be sitting behind the bench, looking at things and giving me ideas and giving me opinions about different things with the team as a whole. I’ve always admired him from afar–didn’t know him personally–but watched from afar, even he when played. He has a wealth of knowledge.”

Weiss coached the Hawks from 1990-91 to ‘92-93 and also was head coach for the Spurs, Clippers and Sonics. He most recently was a head coach in the Chinese Basketball Association.

Weiss’ hiring is one of a few Hawks staff moves announced today.

Kenny Atkinson has officially been hired as an assistant coach. He’s a former Knicks assistant who earned notice when Jeremy Lin credited him with helping his development.

“Kenny came highly recommended as a guy who not only had experience as an assistant but also phenomenal player development guy,” Drew said. “I did a lot of research on him talked to a lot of people. I interviewed him a couple times and thought he was a great candidate to be that third assistant coach and a player development guy.”

Assistant coaches Kenny Gattison and Tyrone Hill will not return.

“I thought Kenny Gattison and Tyrone Hill did a really good job but, like with anything else, you are always looking to enhance what you have and try to make a situation you feel can help the ball club,” Drew said. “I felt it was time for a change.”

The Hawks hired Jeff Watkinson as the strength and conditioning coach. Watkinson worked at Indiana University before leaving in 2010 to take a job as Eric Gordon’s “personal development basketball coach.” Watkinson replaces Chattin Hill, who was with the Hawks for seven seasons.

Former Hawks GM Rick Sund, who has remained on staff during Ferry’s transition, will take on a new role as a senior adviser to the basketball operations. Sund’s duties will include scouting and he will split time between Atlanta and his permanent home in the Seattle area.

“Rick has been helpful during the changes and I think it’s a good situation to still have him available as a sounding board,” Ferry said.

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

516 comments Add your comment

PD

August 28th, 2012
1:11 pm

Hey MC,

Was Wally Blaze let go too.

Priest Lauderdale

August 28th, 2012
1:14 pm

PD
No SLICK will be returning

PD

August 28th, 2012
1:14 pm

MsDee

August 28th, 2012
1:16 pm

Shelden Williams has signed with Elan Chalon of France. Elan Chalon

vava74

August 28th, 2012
1:17 pm

From previous blog:

Summer League 2012 stat lines:

J. Anderson G 27:25 FG3-5 3PT0-0 FT3-3 ± +3 Oreb1 DReb1 Reb2 Ast0 PF1 STL0 TO1 BLK0 BA0 PTS9

J. Anderson G 18:14 FG5-7 3PT1-1 FT2-3 ± +5 Oreb2 Dreb2 Reb4 Ast0 PF0 STL0 TO1 BLK0 BA0 PTS13

J. Anderson G 27:21 FG3-8 3PT1-2 FT1-1 ± -4 Oreb2 Dreb5 Reb7 Ast3 PF3 STL1 TO2 BLK1 BA1 PTS8

J. Anderson G 27:24 FG4-11 3PT2-3 FT0-0 ± +1 Oreb2 Dreb5 Reb7 Ast1 PF3 STL0 TO4 BLK0 BA1 PTS10

J. Anderson G 32:26 FG3-11 3PT2-6 FT5-6 ± -9 Oreb2 Dreb3 Reb5 Ast6 PF2 STL1 TO5 BLK0 BA1 PTS13

2012 (Las Vegas) SAS G5 GS5 Mpg26.6 FG%0.429 3PT%0.500 FT%0.846 OReb1.8 DReb3.2 ROG5.0 Apg2.0 STK0.4 BLK0.2 TO2.6 PF1.8 PPG10.6

on the good side, he seems to have recovered his long ball (not that the SL stats translate into anything on the real action but still…) and he seems to be a guy able to fill up his stat line.

on the bad side, he did fill up his stat line with a couple of horrible nights turnover wise.

Michael Cunningham

August 28th, 2012
1:19 pm

@PD: not that i’ve heard.

Astro Joe

August 28th, 2012
1:20 pm

So Sund and Weiss become advisors to the Hawks? We are well on our way to adding a lottery pick to the list of re-building assets next summer. Only thing we need now is to sign a wing with a busted wing and we should be ready to watch the ping-pong balls.

Astro Joe

August 28th, 2012
1:22 pm

FTPB, vava, what I took from those stats is that he got a goodly amount of playing time (26 minutes/game) and couldn’t maintain employment with the team that drafted him in the first round two years earlier. He may be able to work his way into the rotation by game 50 of the regular season, but I wouldn’t pencil him in above the other 37 guards on the roster just yet.

doc

August 28th, 2012
1:28 pm

i will say it, noooooo!

has weiss been anywhere good?

please just say no.

flip saunders ended up in boston as an advisor, but what can weiss advise on? no cred in my book ever.

first mistake df.

doc

August 28th, 2012
1:33 pm

hmmm a wing with a busted flipper and ordering up one with a busted wing?

Astro Joe

August 28th, 2012
1:44 pm

I’m just glad that we hired a strength and conditioning coach who isn’t affiliated with an oft-injured player.

MC, do you know if the Hawks are going to designate one of their assistants as the “big man” coach (Ty Hill’s previous role) or will position-specific development fall under the generic “player development” umbrella? Thanks.

Ken Strickland

August 28th, 2012
1:48 pm

ASTRO JOE-In life in general, do you always look for the negative in everything like you seem to do with the Hawks? Just wondering.

NekiUno

August 28th, 2012
1:48 pm

Wow, yall guys crying like girls right now, give these ppl a chance before yall watering your eyelids. I think we need have patience with this, no matter what

@MC
Do you think that Hawks might do one more trade before the beginning of the season for a SF? (I hope from Denver ofcourse)

Astro Joe

August 28th, 2012
1:56 pm

Strickland, nope, I’m actually the cheery one among my circle of family and friends. I just refuse to call a 3-legged rat an under-utilized, under-developed, full-of-potential family pet.

Sage of Bluesland

August 28th, 2012
1:58 pm

Solid hires by Ferry and ASG.

Buddy G

August 28th, 2012
2:12 pm

Eat this Horfy haters:

http://repatl.blogspot.com/2012/08/more-from-aaron-mcguire-al-horford-is.html

He’s one of the better floor-spacing power forwards in the league, and for his career, he’s shot an incredible 47% from the long midrange. Wondering where that ranks among the league? Consider this. Last season, only eight players in the entire league matched Horford’s career average from that distance.

He’s a lights-out passer, too — in 2011 (his last healthy season), Horford sported 3.5 assists a night. That was by far the best among centers in the league. And even if you compare him to players at his natural position of power forward, the only players that season who matched him in assists per 48 minutes were Lamar Odom and Tim Duncan.

Top Gun

August 28th, 2012
2:36 pm

Hawks can hire me as a scout, I can do better than R. Sund.

Astro Joe

August 28th, 2012
2:36 pm

tomhaberstroh Tom Haberstroh
Toney Douglas, Anthony Tolliver and Donte Greene shot over 100 3’s last season, made less than 25%. Welcome to the Josh Smith Club!

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
2:40 pm

Bob Who?

Just kidding.

doc

August 28th, 2012
2:43 pm

sage must be very sarcastic as i know he loves the basg.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
2:45 pm

Just tested my scroll key! It works! Thank you Buddy…….

Y-A-W-N.

doc

August 28th, 2012
2:49 pm

buddy g folks dont know quality sometimes. in the orlando series 2011 which supposedly was won by the guards horford led the team in assists. not saying he is kareem nor duncan, neither of which is coming through our door or any other arena, just a good solid ball player who earns his money. i like chandler, dont like some of the other bigs in the east including bynum who will implode with a collins as a coach nor thabeet, so ill take him.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
2:49 pm

With a Brain trust of Danny,Sund,Larry, and now the infamous Bob Weiss?

Now you talking. Look out Miami!

doc

August 28th, 2012
2:50 pm

retesting … retesting.

Court Vision | The Point Forward

August 28th, 2012
2:54 pm

[...] Some housekeeping moves in Atlanta, including the return of a former head coach in an advisory role. The Hawks also formalized the [...]

Falcons85

August 28th, 2012
2:56 pm

Weiss is a bum. Knew him when he was in Seattle. No work ethic brings nothing to the table.
You would think a guy in charge of developing players would get in players ears yell and provide instruction. It was clear he was just there to collect a paycheck.

pointguardslim

August 28th, 2012
3:24 pm

vava74 those James Anderson SL stats make me want to vomit

pointguardslim

August 28th, 2012
3:28 pm

Buddy G, now do Josh Smith as a SF and tell us about rebounding, and assists.

Ra'mon

August 28th, 2012
3:28 pm

Buddy, why do you think just because someone thinks of trade options for Al that they’re a Horford Hater? Could it be that they are more of a Hawks Lover than a Al Lover or Josh Lover or Teague lover? There’s not a single player on the Hawks roster who should be untouchable. So its good to see what the trade value is for ALL of your players. The problem is Josh only has one season on his contract, so teams aren’t going to pay a premium price for him, especially where you are going to get production back. Teague is still on his rookie deal, so it will be very hard to get true value for him because of the salary restrictions. That leaves Al as the next player. No matter how you slice it, Al may be overvalued for his level of production by other GMs in the league.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
3:30 pm

The return of the self proclaimed [BasketBall Expert] 2014..Get ready folks!

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
3:33 pm

Ra’mon, forget trying to reason with the Al Horford [Fan Club] with acting President and CEO Sautee..

Astro Joe

August 28th, 2012
3:42 pm

Here’s what I don’t understand about the Weiss role. It sounds like he is in a temp job, “advisory role”. And there is history between Sund and Weiss from Seattle, so it feels like this is a Sund-initiated move, for them to work together and earn one last paycheck.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20060103&slug=websoni03

I’ve been suggesting for the past few weeks that the coming season is a “Transition” and essentially meaningless (important for individual players but pointless for the team in aggregate). But this is even beyond my forecast. This team may enter the season with about half of the players on one year deals, a lame duck head coach (along his long-time assistants) and interim advisors in Weiss and Sund. Our young players get the benefit of Weiss (assuming there is a benefit) for potentially a single year before he is replaced with a long-term player development leader.

Maybe Ferry couldn’t get the guys that he really wants for the long haul and decided to go with Sund’s “stop-gap” measures. It just all feels like instead of hiring talented perm employees, we have decided to use RandStad to staff positions on the roster, coaching staff and front office. If I didn’t know better, I would swear that the team is about to be sold and this is a modest attempt to get us from today through the close of the sale.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
3:43 pm

“No matter how you slice it, Al may be overvalued for his level of production by other GMs in the league.” -Ra’mon-

NO HE DIDNT????????

HE SAID WHAT?????

SHIELDS UP SCOTTIE…INCOMING PLASMA BURSTS

Big Ray

August 28th, 2012
4:12 pm

Buddy G, now do Josh Smith as a SF and tell us about rebounding, and assists.

You don’t want that story.

No matter how you slice it, Al may be overvalued for his level of production by other GMs in the league.

You’re right. Because NBA GMs clearly don’t know as much as you and others who ummm…don’t work in NBA executive positions……

Okay, sorry, even I couldn’t keep a straight face while typing that.

Buddy, why do you think just because someone thinks of trade options for Al that they’re a Horford Hater? Could it be that they are more of a Hawks Lover than a Al Lover or Josh Lover or Teague lover? There’s not a single player on the Hawks roster who should be untouchable.

1) Why do you assume Buddy is talking about folks who come up with trade options for Al? Did he say that? Guilty dog….

2) It might have something to do with the same folks coming up with trade options for Al Horford and nobody else…every single time. So what “Hawks Lovers” are you referring to? Some folks can only think of trading Al….

3) No matter how you spin it, some of the same folks advocating trades for Horford have nothing to say about him but his negatives/weaknesses. So spare us the alibis. Not one realistic trade proposal has been made.

4) If you think Ferry hasn’t considered (and isn’t STILL considering) what he can get for whom, you’re crazy.

Big Ray

August 28th, 2012
4:15 pm

Ra’mon, forget trying to reason with the Al Horford [Fan Club] with acting President and CEO Sautee..

….Quoth the “I can’t think for myself, I’d rather ride the coattails of my intelligent comments” Club…..

Big Ray

August 28th, 2012
4:18 pm

Astro Joe ,

Because you DON’T know better. These guys (group formerly known as ASG) tried to sell the team to Papa John’s Pizz….oh wait, was that some other pizza chain?

Anyway, you could darn well be right about this. The one “bright” spot is that the team is unlikely to be moved. An owner would have to find a better market than even the fickle ATL one, which is not as easy as some might think.

Michael Cunningham

August 28th, 2012
4:18 pm

blog updated with comments from Drew.

Big Ray

August 28th, 2012
4:18 pm

Slim Jr ,

You’re getting slow. You should have fired back at me by now.

:twisted:

Michael Cunningham

August 28th, 2012
4:19 pm

@Astro Joe: “MC, do you know if the Hawks are going to designate one of their assistants as the “big man” coach (Ty Hill’s previous role) or will position-specific development fall under the generic “player development” umbrella?”

sounds like the latter.

Big Ray

August 28th, 2012
4:19 pm

MC ,

Seriously? That was all lame duck’s doing? I have a hard time believing it. Not questioning YOU, questioning lame duck…

Michael Cunningham

August 28th, 2012
4:20 pm

@NekiUno: @MC: Do you think that Hawks might do one more trade before the beginning of the season for a SF? (I hope from Denver ofcourse)

yes, i think they will make a trade to balance the roster. can’t happen with players acquired through trades (Harris, Marrow and Co.) until mid-Sept.

Big Ray

August 28th, 2012
4:21 pm

MC ,

Ha…that was lame duck’s doing? Seriously? Nah…..

Meanwhile, Slimjr will have a witty retort or a Star Trek reference in 5…4….3…2…Slim? Slim? Slim!

Michael Cunningham

August 28th, 2012
4:24 pm

@Big Ray: “MC , Seriously? That was all lame duck’s doing? I have a hard time believing it. Not questioning YOU, questioning lame duck…”

sorry, not following what you mean?

NekiUno

August 28th, 2012
4:37 pm

@AJ

I swear yall need a chill pill and let see what happens, besides, it been eons since Weiss was on the bench for us and we had the great one Babs as GM at that time. Let see what happens before u say “Woe to the World” or you can be a Thunder fan.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
4:40 pm

MC, BRay sounds a little manic? Hmmmmmm

You know he has an audience one[Himself].. LOL!

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
4:49 pm

BRay has a book in him he has yet to write.

It’s called [audience of one].

W.R. Terrell

August 28th, 2012
4:49 pm

We all had some feelings and thought changes would be good concerning our beloved HAWKS. I for one don’t think Ferry is here to make a losing team. Picking up a 6′6 wingman who can play defense and a former number 1 pick is not bad. Sometimes a change of scenery can bring about a positive change. The HAWKS are guard heavy and believe me more changes are coming. How many folks out there have bitched about LD and that includes me. When Weiss coached the HAWKS its not like they had a super dominant team but they were competitive. He may be goofy looking but he’s smarter then LD and he does have a way of toning down egos. One more thing if LD does not make it pass January there will be an experienced coach to finish the season. A lot is going on here and changing some assistant coaches as far as i’m concerned is a positive move.

Rufus1

August 28th, 2012
4:50 pm

Plan B…

Weiss, sounds like plan “B” if they have to fire LD during the season.

Buddy Grizzard

August 28th, 2012
4:52 pm

“bynum who will implode with a collins as a coach…”

I think Collins will be great for Bynum. The problem is that Bynum didn’t have to work hard or fight through double teams in L.A. Now he’s the focal point of the offense and defense. He will get double teamed constantly. When it goes bad for Philly this year, blame Collins the de facto GM, not Collins the coach.

Davidwilliamspph

August 28th, 2012
4:53 pm

Former coach Weiss is a man with great success and always willing to offer what you know and give all their knowledge will be of great help to the team. On the other hand the new hires are looking pretty good and hopefully a good sign for future seasons.

AG

August 28th, 2012
4:55 pm

Wow, how canned was that quote from LD. I think it is really funny now that DF is in charge LD was “thinking” about it the entire time. I do understand the value of having a former head coach with you – BUT I WOULD LIKE TO HIRE HIM AS AN ASSISTANT! In a adviser role, he will be micromanaged and his actions reported directly back to DF! Worse, I would not be surprised if BW became the next Atlanta Hawk head coach.

Ra'mon

August 28th, 2012
4:56 pm

Big Ray, you’re actually wrong about some of that. Many of the people who are saying those negative things about Al didn’t start saying negatives things about Al until 2011 playoffs. Before that time, Josh was those same bloggers whooping boy for a while. Mike Woodson’s last two seasons you didn’t see hardly any one on here suggest trading Al. The only player they were trying to blindly trade them was Josh. I know you remember the countless Josh for Biedrins posts or Josh for Scola posts that used to eat up space on the blog. You say guilty dog, but I’m one of the main one who have been objective about Al for quite some time now. So if asking someone about their post makes someone guilty, then oh well. The same way I wouldn’t trade Horford for Jefferson or Josh for Gasol. Is the same way I would trade either or both for the top pick in next season’s draft. I’ve never said Ferry isn’t considering anything. Instead its been Buddy and others who act as if everyone isn’t on the table. And that was the point of my statement. However, you been the scholar blogger you are, you didn’t comprehend that.

W.R. Terrell

August 28th, 2012
4:56 pm

Ferry is a smark basketball man, to 2nd guess his decisions before we can ascertain an outcome is ludicrous. He brought in a wing player who can play defense and talented that may need a change of scenery. Changing assistant coaches is not going to make me lose sleep and for those who do not remember Bob Weiss may not be a flashy coach but he does have a way of getting the most out of young and gifted players. I’m gonna sit back and watch because I think the show has not even started yet.

AG

August 28th, 2012
4:57 pm

MC, is VanExel still part of the staff? Also can you confirm the rumor on Arthur Trishe.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
5:10 pm

Ramon, you have to remember Manic BRay is a [LEGEND] in his own mind……

He’s part of that Fal-con Fanatic Delusional club.This group of proud and arrogant son of a guns believe that their squad is Supebowl bound with Melt as the QB and Wade Phillips Jr as the HC…

12-4 has been posted out there by one of their Experts[Bradley]

Super Bowl or Bust…

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
5:12 pm

Weiss is coming. Hey Larry your bags packed yet?

jhan

August 28th, 2012
5:15 pm

Bynum & Josh are in the same boat this year. We’ll see how they handle the “Joe Johnson” treatment every night. Should be very interesting to watch!

jhan

August 28th, 2012
5:20 pm

If Josh is the full time SF won’t it be very easy for teams to neutralize his defense & rebounding? How can he focus in the paint if the guy he’s guarding is playing 22′ from the basket?

doc

August 28th, 2012
5:25 pm

buddy, i disagree. if phil had a hard time with bynum which most accounts suggest, i expect collins will too but will push more buttons inthe mean time. if it goes bad, one or the other or both will have probs. also your comments seem contradictory, collins is either a good coach or not. good coaches dont turn into de facto gm’s somehow they can draw the line.

Sautee

August 28th, 2012
5:25 pm

“Ra’mon, forget trying to reason with the Al Horford [Fan Club] with acting President and CEO Sautee..”

OK slim, you’ve finally pissed me off. Did you not see my post last blog, where I AGREED with Just Joe’s trade proposal including Al to ORL with us getting Nicholson, Vucevic, and particularly important: the ability to swap 1st round picks?

So tell me slim, if I’d be OK with that trade, just how am I being “unreasonable”???????

Your attack is unwarranted, just like a few blogs ago when you called me “one of the biggest apologists on the blog”. BS. Find just one post where I’m “apologizing” for the Hawks. Just one.

Lots of luck, bucko.

Cut the crap, slim. Sorry, but I don’t fit the characterization you have in mind. But there’s NO NEED to try to paint me as something I am not.

You have gone too far. But perhaps, on your judgement day (that you keep saying to others) you’ll be reminded about that commandment: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Or if it’s not false witness, then PROVE what you have claimed.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
5:39 pm

Sautee, settle down.. Take it Easy. My bad dude..

doc

August 28th, 2012
5:40 pm

r’amon,

Big Ray, you’re actually wrong about some of that. Many of the people who are saying those negative things about Al didn’t start saying negatives things about Al until 2011 playoffs.

objective on al? has one bad series as you say, i guess, though we got into the second round against a supposedly better team, gets injured early in a season, comes back early and was not too far back on the numbers between the big dogs jj and josh and people decry al? you and everyone jumped off at that? kidding or you think you are objective?

meanwhile jj has series after series of underperforming, has his overall numbers go down signs a crippling contract no fault of his own and people are teary eyed he is now gone? objective? puhlease.

r’amon no, dont forget the “soft al” started before the playoffs and even before that, right vava, et al? he seemed to redeem himself for the soft accusations in his play right off the injured list on coming back way before it was expected with more to lose than gain personally to help the team in a season probably going down the drain. still not good enough.

by those comments, i will be pressed into a corner i am not in but so be it because of all the “objectivity” here. ;-)

Jay Dubu

August 28th, 2012
5:41 pm

The Hawks are mirrowing the out-sourcing of jobs in their approach. Your replacement gets to look over your shoulder before they take your job.

SteveW

August 28th, 2012
5:42 pm

Doc – When the rumor of obtaining Anderson came out, I googled James Anderson – and then when somebody on here mentioned his broken foot, I googled that also – and that’s where I found out about what bone – on a Spurs blog somewhere.

I’d say most Spurs fans really liked Anderson judging by the blogs I read, but some thought he was garbage after the injury. Probably 80-20 split in favor of liking him though. They say Summer League showed he’d regained at least some of his lost explosiveness.

SteveW

August 28th, 2012
5:45 pm

Doc – This from 48 minutes of hell – an espn truehoop blog:

“Anderson was diagnoses with a stress fracture in the fifth metatarsal, a cumulative injury that typically builds up over time. He was off to a good start to his rookie season, averaging seven points in his first seven games while making half his 3-point shots “

SteveW

August 28th, 2012
5:49 pm

Yeh, I could deal with obtaining Wilson Chandler – now how to do it? Preferably Korver and Morrow straight up for Chandler. I have no idea if Denver does that deal or not.

If I could get away with Korver and Stevenson – I’d do that. Give them a Rockets 2nd pick that we own to sweeten the deal.

Probably takes at least Morrow and Korver to get Chandler however. Maybe more.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
5:49 pm

Tell ya what Sautee when you jab me everyday on this blog I’ll be sure to test the scroll key..

Good plan? Yes….

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
5:53 pm

Its a two way street dude. Nice try Shortie..

Melvin

August 28th, 2012
5:54 pm

Why do they continue to keep Sund on the payroll? This guy has been collecting checks from the NBA for over 30years and no NBA championship to show for it… Let this guy go to the retired old folks home. I rather see that monies be sent on someone else or entity… My Goodness

SteveW

August 28th, 2012
5:54 pm

I’d love to do Morrow, Korver, Stevenson, a 1st pick and a couple of 2nd picks to Denver for Iggy. A Frontcourt of Al, Josh, and Iggy, with a backcourt rotation of Devin, Lou, and Jeff – with ZaZa, Ivan, and Petro still in the frontcourt rotation, would be a very, very competitive team.

And you’d still have the cash for a frontline FA next year, even re-signing Josh. Put Harden or Jefferson alongside of Al, Josh, Iggy, Lou, and Teague and you’ve got a quality team – maybe a contender.

Again – probably no way Denver makes that trade – but stranger things have happened.

steven a smith

August 28th, 2012
5:57 pm

Ken Strickland and all the other Bloggers with an unhealthy “ManCrush” on Al Horford, need to Understand that “Change gonna come.” All Atlanta teams are cleaning house, Scrubs gotta go!

See Chris Redman and John Bob Parker getting CUT. New sherrif in town for the Atlanta Basketball Hawks, will not put up with the “Underchieving Al Horford.” I Love Al Horford as a Back-up Center/Power Forward..Love him in that role. He just cannot be my starting “5″

I like Al, just not as a starter Kenny.

SteveW

August 28th, 2012
5:58 pm

I think with Lawson and Miller – Denver doesn’t need Devin Harris – which is the most obvious contract to swap for Chandler.

But if we could get Iggy – that’s the deal I want right there.

Iggy, Josh, Al, and Lou would be a tough top 4

Teague, ZaZa, Ivan, and Jenkins are a good 2nd four as well.

And yes, I know of Iggy and Lou’s friction – but hey, making several millions of dollars, you can work with another human being.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
5:59 pm

doc you realize its a fair assumption that Al Horford was offered up as trade bait already by Danny when he was engaged in trade talks with Orlando for D12 services?

Al’s an Allstar with good trade value.. He will be offered up again down the road sometime for sure.

So be it…

Sautee

August 28th, 2012
6:02 pm

slim, I hope that scroll key thingy works for you on your judgement day. Best of luck with THAT.

You who speaks of accountability… well maybe you are not holding yourself to the same standard you seem to be holding for others. A common sin, as well I know.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
6:08 pm

Lighten the load dude.. Your not the innocent lamb you are trying to paint a picture of..

Good evening..

Ra'mon

August 28th, 2012
6:14 pm

Doc, I didn’t change my opinion of Al because of a series. I was saying the same thing about Al BEFORE the series. I’m saying majority of the people on here now who are saying trade Al, they previous weren’t. And compared to his rookie season, Al does play less physical basketball. THAT has always been my number one complaint. And number two was the lack of ability to fluidly create a shot for himself. Those two things were before and after the series. I have never said just give away Al. But my trade value for him is lower than some on here, and higher than others.

H-Fan

August 28th, 2012
6:17 pm

Always liked Bob Weiss. I remember watching him steal the ball from a whirling Earl the Pearl. As a player, he made efficient use of his talent. He has a good sound basketball IQ.

Sautee

August 28th, 2012
6:19 pm

“Your not the innocent lamb you are trying to paint a picture of..” – slimjr

Maybe not, but also you say I “can’t be reasoned with” and that I’m “one of the biggest Hawks apologists on the blog” and I disagree vehemently. You don’t bring a single thing to support either of those statements. As usual.

I never said (as your straw man argument would suggest) that I was an “innocent lamb” now, did I slim?

In fact, I said in my last post (if you read it carefully) that I was just as guilty of holding others to a higher standard.

But that is what you now seem to be doing. Unless you’d like to repent your statements??????

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
6:22 pm

does Al = the WHOLE HAWKS TEAM???????????????????????????????????????????????

Scroll engaged

I MUS WRITE

August 28th, 2012
6:28 pm

“Audience of One”…….I Getting a Copy today!!!. I hear there a line around the corner at Barnes and Noble.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
6:39 pm

DONT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH DUDE.

WE HAVE HAD OUR DIFFERENCES OF OPINION BASED ON AL’S GAME NOT THE WHOLE DARN TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DONT GET IT TWISTED AND SAY IM CALLING YOU THE BIGGEST HAWK APOLOGIST..YOU GOT IT WRONG MISTER!

NOW IM PISSED OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sautee

August 28th, 2012
6:42 pm

“does Al = the WHOLE HAWKS TEAM????????????” – slimjr

What a silly statement slim. Once again, I’m a Hawks fan. if Al played for another team, he’d just be another NBA player to me. Which is why I said, as always, that if trading him made the team better, I’d be all for it. Some folks conveniently ignore that message. And the trade that Just Joe proposed, in my opinion, would have improved the team.

That doesn’t mean I’d give him away like SAS would. But I’m a fan of Hawks players first and foremost. Unlike you.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
6:53 pm

Sautee your assessment of that statement is worth what? A Rats azz?

It’s not silly anymore once I followed up in caps..

Hey you go back to your corner and I will go back to mine..Take it easy

KevinM

August 28th, 2012
6:55 pm

Bob Weiss is 70 years old…he hardly sounds like a threat to LD IMO. He is recovering from prostate cancer, so congrats to him and his new role as advisor.

Now, why Sund is still part of the picture is like sending out a previous boss without acknowledging his time has passed.

We definitely will have enough opinions to go around. Danny has his hands full trying to get a 45 year franchise to begin thinking championship contender.

Will next year’s roster of coaches/players resemble anything close to what we have today?

brigadierjerry

August 28th, 2012
6:59 pm

if jenkins gets the playing time i think he will end up being a better pro than jordan crawford

KevinM

August 28th, 2012
7:00 pm

Wilson Chandler is owed 26M the next 4 years….there is no way I touch him for those nimbers. IMO, another Marvin Williams scenario at the end of that deal. Denver overpaid.

majortee

August 28th, 2012
7:03 pm

YEAH, BUCKO!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!! HAVEN’T heard that word in a while

vava74

August 28th, 2012
7:26 pm

KevinM

That’s cair Price for Chandler’s game.

He’s incredibly more talent on offense and decent enough on D to deserve 7 million per which the normal price for a player in his pecking order.

vava74

August 28th, 2012
7:29 pm

Than Marvin.

Jae Evolution

August 28th, 2012
7:38 pm

“Wilson Chandler is owed 26M the next 4 years….there is no way I touch him for those nimbers. IMO, another Marvin Williams scenario at the end of that deal. Denver overpaid.”

Jeff Green – 36M 4 years
Gerald Wallace 40M 4 years
Luol Deng – 26M 2 years
Tayshaun Prince – 22M 3 years
Danny Granger – 26M 2 years
Thaddeus Young – 35M 4 years
Trevor Ariza – 14M 2 years

Those are just numbers for guys on the East…I’m sorry but did you even see some of the SF contracts handed out to guys OLDER than Chandler who do LESS than he does? The guy is only 25 and most people forgot about him while he was in China then got injured, but for what he produces when on the court he is the friendliest contract out there, the numbers speak for themselves.

Hawkfan

August 28th, 2012
7:39 pm

Weiss was the worst all time Hawks head coach and that’s saying something. Hope he’s a great consultant. Wasn’t he a consultant on the Olympic team?

Ken Strickland

August 28th, 2012
7:43 pm

SLIMJR-I’m in the fan club of any Atlanta Hawks player that’s a 2 time All Star and 1 time All NBA in his first 4 seasons any day of the week. If you were a Hawks fan that’s concerned about the team, rather than your own personal BS, you’d feel the same way. I support all of the players on my team as long as he contributes, and Horford has consistently contributed on an All Star and All NBA level.

It’s too bad that you and certain others are too full of your own personal BS to realize and/or accept these FACTS. But at least you are capable of contributing something intelligent when it doesn’t involve Horford, which is waaaay more than anyone can say for STEVEN ASS SMITH.

Sautee

August 28th, 2012
7:54 pm

“DONT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH DUDE.”

“WE HAVE HAD OUR DIFFERENCES OF OPINION BASED ON AL’S GAME NOT THE WHOLE DARN TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DONT GET IT TWISTED AND SAY IM CALLING YOU THE BIGGEST HAWK APOLOGIST..YOU GOT IT WRONG MISTER!” – slimjr

So you never said anything like that, eh, slim?

Slimjr

August 10th, 2012
11:10 pm

“Sorry Sautee [one of the expert apologists] on this blog but 44 years of futility is way beyond unacceptable.”

“This Allstar 5 will not change that streak by any stretch….”

Still think I’m putting words in your mouth, slim?

You owe me an apology.

doc

August 28th, 2012
8:04 pm

slimj, not sure what is relevant about a statement or question like that. dont you think at this stage of the game for df there are no untouchables? seems josh’s name has come up in as many trade rumors as al has, so big deal. josh for gasol or did you forget? al for d12? i would have taken that one if d12 signs on the line but he wasnt. josh for gasol, uh no, not right now.

i say df is going to hold his hand with what trade bait he has and both al and josh and jeff for that matter are all fair game depending on the circumstances. you arent foolish enough in making your statement to think josh wasnt shopped or discussed as was al and there are untouchables? so what is your frigging point my friend.

if we get quality then fine and al for d12 would have been a coup. i wont cry if we get quality for him but i am going to laugh my azz off at all of you who want him gone if he and josh finally get the op to play a different game and excel which i hope for as fans of them and a fan of the hawks. i do feel it is possible. if the team falters it will be on josh and al so easily josh could go first. that would be a real smack down wouldnt it? reality check, it is very possible.

now, how would that feel but it is a very rational position for df, if josh cant do it and he has worth in the marketplace knowing if he suffers his detractors will be back moaning at every shot outside 12 ft. he wont sign here period. so why dont we all rest on it and pray they both perform well, because if we dont see that, final kaboom!?

brigadierjerry

August 28th, 2012
8:05 pm

stephen a smith,

how many centers better than horford?maybe 3? and why r u so hung up on horford coming off the bench?u make it seem horford isnt any good. as i said he is what he is. u think he is a scrub but u want him to be better but ithought to u he sucked?

just u suggesting trading deng for horford is comical?unless u telling me u trading horford for howard or bynum and maybe chandler or if hawk getting multiple 1st round picks if hawks want to tank why would u make that trade horford for deng?it is hard having decent centers in a league moving away from big men.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
8:11 pm

Reading is fundamental Sir…

[one of the expert apologistSSSSSSSSSS][Plural=more than one Dude] where does is say [the biggest Hawks apologist]? Hmmmmmmmmm

I lumped you into a group. You were not singled out! Stop twisting it dude..You want your way.Dont you?

I singled you out for the Al Horford fan club on a day when you where just irritating me.. And it stuck..

Tell ya what I’m gonna do. I will cease from involving you in that line of diatribe.

Good evening..

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
8:15 pm

KS. thanks for the back handed compliment!! Hehehehe

Sautee

August 28th, 2012
8:22 pm

LOL, slim. You are playing dodge ball again. The issue – since apparently I must spell it out for you – is NOT the exact wording you used. It’s the fact that you call me an apologist. I’ll say again, if that’s what you insist, then go and find me evidence of my apologies.

If I am, as you say “an expert apologist” then surely there must be hundreds of examples for you. Else, why would I be such an “expert”?

Just find one. Or go ahead and apologize to me for a false accusation. Your call.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
8:28 pm

doc, yea Josh for Gasol was discussed quite a bit on this site..Glad that did not go down or we would have seen this @ Phillips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzxFJa6rfsg&feature=related

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
8:38 pm

“slimj, not sure what is relevant about a statement or question like that. dont you think at this stage of the game for df there are no untouchables?” -doc-

exactly doc, we agree..Everyone can be shopped for the right deal to take this franchise to new heights.

steven a smith

August 28th, 2012
9:23 pm

brigadierjerry

August 28th, 2012
8:05 pm

I just think that Al would be better coming off the bench like he did in the playoffs against Boston.

Ken Strickland–i agree with some of the assessmennts you have on Al Horford, however, i do not believe he should be starting over Zsa Zsa or Josh.

steven a smith

August 28th, 2012
9:27 pm

Ken Strickland is very close-minded when it comes to Al Horford. He sees the glass as half full for Al. Al’s game is not suited for a starting “5″ in the NBA, Period!

Clarity

August 28th, 2012
9:43 pm

“Ken Strickland is very close-minded when it comes to Al Horford. He sees the glass as half full for Al”

LOL, so seeing a glass half full equates to being close-minded. Says a whole lot without meaning to. Sounds exactly like the Tea Party to me.

steven a smith

August 28th, 2012
9:54 pm

Clarity

August 28th, 2012
9:43 pm
LOL, so seeing a glass half full equates to being close-minded. Says a whole lot without meaning to. Sounds exactly like the Tea Party to me.

Al Horford has peaked as an NBA player. He is that actor who could only be a star in the 1st Sitcom he appeared in,,ie…Robert Barone/Brad Garrett…Raymond’s loser brother.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
9:56 pm

Sautee, in the name of peace and stability on this blog, I will personally take you off my list of expert apologists. Okay?

Go in peace Sir….

Up next are the Nets really better than the Knicks as Joe say it aint so puts it? Hmmmmm..

BTW I will cheer for ISO and Marvin long as they are not playing the Hawks that particular night! Go Hawks!!!!!!!!!

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
9:59 pm

I hope Marvin puts up 15 and 8 every night..Maybe a change of scenery will make a huge difference for him..He’s much closer to home[Utah to Seattle] now..

Buddy Grizzard

August 28th, 2012
10:04 pm

“Just tested my scroll key! It works! Thank you Buddy”

LOL Slimjr afraid his eyes might melt if he reads some positive press for All-NBA. Wait… is Slimjr really LaVar Burton, the actor behind Star Trek’s Geordi La Forge???!! Keep wearing those special shades Slimjr!!!

“Its been Buddy and others who act as if everyone isn’t on the table.” – Ra’mon

Ra’mon you got me wrong sir. Always enjoy your consistently good insight, but I’ve been discussing trade scenarios involving Al for years.

Also doc, I’m not seeing the contradiction. Collins is a highly respected coach who may coach the next US Olympic team, and he has a lot of influence over personnel decisions for the 76ers by numerous accounts. “De facto GM” may be an exaggeration, but you can bet he signed off on letting Lou Williams walk and trading Iggy.

LMAO at Sautee and SlimGeordi fighting like an old couple!

Wink

August 28th, 2012
10:10 pm

Bring Weiss in is going backward, even as an advisor. Really how long will he be in this role, especially if it’s thought by some that he is too old to take LD’s job. Can you say budget hire.

ASG is so happy that Ferry was able to unload JJ & Marvin’s contract in little over two weeks, that happily will give Sund a little Golden Parachute to go away…by the way you can even split time between Seattle & Atlanta.

ASG has accomplished what they always covet, and that is to horde cash. Ferry has earned his salary for the duration of his contract. So it seems we are making changes, but the sell could still be in full effect. The bottomline is looking really good to a prospective buyer.

Show me where they have done anything, except addition (cash) by substraction (JJ & Marvin). Really, Ivan was a productive player for us last year, why have they not signed him already….playing games just like they did Childress & Josh!

In getting rid of those contracts, we are now a little guard happy; (Devin, Lou, Morrow, Teague, Jenkins, and may as well add Korver) but no one more happy than LD, because he like guards. He want to shoot more jumpers than he did last year and now he can really extend out to the 3 point line.

Most of the roster as constructed are on one year contracts which is good which again would be attractive to prospective buyers. The Free Agent pool has dried up. There is no one available to bring in worthwhile to play SF. So we have Stevenson, a small Korver, or Josh, which gives us no rebounding or shot blocking inside!

We can still finish in the top 8 in the East, but we will have no chance against, Boston (added two 7 footers inside with Garnett, Jason Terry, Bradley & Green will be back in line up, plus Doc), Knicks (added Jason Kidd to Melo, Amare, Shumpert, Chandler), Philly ( added a legitimate center in Bynum to go with their core), Chicago (Rose will return along with that Defense they play), and the champs Miami (added Reshard Lewis & Ray Allen). So we can’t get out of the East.

Should they manage to align the stars…they still have go against OKC who added Jones to their lineup (Ibaka & Harden get extended???) and Lakers (added Dwight Howard & Steve Nash to go with Gasol, Artest, & Kobe).

My point we are doing what we always do, nothing to improve the team, keeping a tight hold on the money, and we have gone quiet since the Lou signing. When will we address the SF & inside presence issue…ASG is satisified….just keeping it 100!

doc

August 28th, 2012
10:25 pm

buddy how can “one” help bynum and the “other” not, is what i heard you imply.

again phil one of the best at getting the most of people struggled to get there with bynum, kobe pushed him to no avail onlu inconsistency and collins is next in line to take bynum to the next level? not. collins is a very smart coach, just dont know if he is capable of doing what needs to be done for bynum and no one may be able to. ultimately it might come to a very bad crash is my guess. cant say it is on his resume either.

JOSH IS BEAST

August 28th, 2012
10:25 pm

Enter your comments here

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
10:26 pm

“Just tested my scroll key! It works! Thank you Buddy”

LOL Slimjr afraid his eyes might melt if he reads some positive press for All-NBA. Wait… is Slimjr really LaVar Burton, the actor behind Star Trek’s Geordi La Forge???!! Keep wearing those special shades Slimjr!!!” -BuddyG-

That is freaking funny!! heh heh heh heh

Buddy got Jokes!!!!!

doc

August 28th, 2012
10:27 pm

btw i might be like you looking for interesting people and story lines in the coming season. you can be sure that will be one, good or bad.

JOSH IS BEAST

August 28th, 2012
10:28 pm

al horford is solid fundamentally Sound GOOD player..period end of discussion ….smh @People hating..lol

doc

August 28th, 2012
10:37 pm

slimj i responded blog monster spit it out. bottom line, i am going to pull for both josh and al this season. they are neither perfect and maybe neither is an all star. they can be charmin al and osh without a j or boss al and beastly josh smash. i hope the latter show up. i am not going to root either guy down to make me feel better or make it seem my ego is somehow smarter than everyone else.

if people really do like one over the other and if it boils down to it, dont be sad if either or both do poorly and both get shipped. that is the catch 22 and irony of this silly diatribe that some and maybe you profit from, to have something to say. my mother used to say if you cant say something positive … ;-) .

you just might get what you want a down year by al and lose in the end as DF is holding the trade card. if it makes long term sense and the hawks are sucking with no guarantee of a signed josh, then no matter what josh might be gone as trade bait. so, best yee that want him begin to throw a little love towards al with the hopes he has a good season as well.

Slimjr

August 28th, 2012
11:21 pm

That Bynum/Collins relationship will be fascinating to watch unfold doc for sure..

I’m going to cheer for all the players. I want this team to reach new heights also..Long over due..

Ra'mon

August 28th, 2012
11:27 pm

Buddy, sorry for misrepresenting your statement then. Many on this blog seem to feel if you propose trading anyone, that means you don’t like them. And that’s not the case. So at times, its hard to see or tell. And many of the people who uses the terms “Al Haters”, “Josh Haters”, or “Al/Josh Lovers” are loyal to one of the two and almost against trading at all costs. Very FEW people on this blog believe that Josh and Al can productively co-exist on this Hawks team and contend for a championship. Most on this blog are for one or the other. I actually believe both could be on a championship contending team here with an all star added (I believe Josh can be the best player on a 2nd round team, but doubt on a championship level team yet). At the same time, if strategically moved, they both could be traded, and the Hawks be a championship caliber team in 3 seasons. Its like an argument between an extreme liberal or a tea party member, compared to a rational conversation between a conservative Democrat or a liberal Republican.

Ra'mon

August 28th, 2012
11:31 pm

Would anyone on this blog be willing to trade Al and Teague for R. Westbrook?

doc

August 28th, 2012
11:35 pm

buddy g any response or posture to say something rational with some of these guys, since there isnt a rational comeback, best they can say is, it is because you are an al lover. only response they can muster as most of their concerns are bluster like this all star al stuff that means absolutely nothing. not the smartest nor cutest derogatory comment he could be called. i like charmin soft al myself.

no one has disagreed with the concept al is an all star because there is less competition at that position, as, it is what it is. that isnt good enough to agree. so who is to be shamed? it is like marvin didnt draft himself 2, jj didnt hold a gun to anyone to get a max contract and al didnt lobby to have every center in the east suck. to shame someone for something out of their control is meaningless.

as a whole his “good” in stats holds up pretty good against most of the best centers in a league that isnt dominated nor will be by them. he has fit into the grand scheme of hawks basketball and doesnt take off on his own like a maverick or rogue. he aptly plays within himself, the game and the team concept. all really solid and why we chose him, as he was vanilla safe, not his running mate noah at fl or yi from china the others to consider but more risk involved that year. he turned out better than them and the number two we had on our roster before him or really the one a center in front of marvin that year. he certainly turned out better than the number one center portland got who became an alcoholic by his second year in the league, all facts. think we should be grateful instead of spiteful? some just spit venom as it must make them better in their world.

we missed al terribly last year as zaza went down before the playoffs and didnt that zaza have trouble scoring important baskets when he was right there in front of it at the end of games? al didnt let us down in the long run. it was mega bucks jj who couldnt carry the load once he got the torch as batman. not his fault either, he wasnt a superstar but paid like one and given the ball to be like mike.
again not his fault but his floater took him away from contact so he wouldnt go to the line a flaw at the end of games or was it jj just didnt like contact and shied away from it? besides the fact the offense died and lost its flow in the mean time as defenses only had to really concentrate on one guy. not jj’s fault to get the ball in that situation as he didnt grab it out of anyone’s hands but woody for setting it up and LD not being able to get them out of the dependence on it.

but anyway buddy g, dont be rational.

doc

August 28th, 2012
11:39 pm

slimj

I’m going to cheer for all the players. I want this team to reach new heights also..Long over due..

even all star al?

but i agree we better get onto some love for these guys. i really am hopeful while being skeptical at the same time that it wont be easy and hopefully a work in progress. LD is going to get coached up a bit on analytics, too. it is a transformation that i hope brings us a satisifed and energized josh with a good reasonable salary next year and a return to form of the boss so by next year we can cherry pick a few players to round and flesh out the team.

vava74

August 28th, 2012
11:40 pm

“Astro Joe
August 28th, 2012
1:56 pm
Strickland, nope, I’m actually the cheery one among my circle of family and friends. I just refuse to call a 3-legged rat an under-utilized, under-developed, full-of-potential family pet.”

MOST FREAKINGLY FUNNY POST EVER!

(don’t necessarily agree to the underlying concept, funnier it’s basically impossible)

Jae Evolution

August 29th, 2012
3:51 am

“Would anyone on this blog be willing to trade Al and Teague for R. Westbrook?”

Without hesistation, but I would stop forcing him into the PG position. Can he be effective there? At most times he can be. Should that be his primary position? Not at all if you ask me.

Russell was a SG in college so why not move him back there and let him wreck havoc at a position that won’t disrupt what a real PG can do for the team. Westbrook can be a complete double edged sword on offense, he literally can’t make up his mind on what is the right thing to do, so I say put him at a position where he will only attack and watch the kid become the next Wade.

Jae Evolution

August 29th, 2012
4:03 am

To further the point IF Westbrook were to ever be acquired and moved into a SG position, the team would need to get a true PG that could relegate Westbrook’s natural instincts to have the ball in his hands. I’m dreaming but if the backcourt of CP3 – Westbrook were ever constructed it would be ABSOLUTELY nightmarish to opposing teams.

It’s a false hope, but I feel Westbrook has been silently shopped by OKC a few times with some of his performances during the season and post-season, and with Paul being a FA I would say there is a .000000001 chance we even have the opportunity to get one, let alone both, Hah!

brigadierjerry

August 29th, 2012
5:23 am

stephen a smith,

With this team as currently constituted, who exactly is taking Horford’s starting position so Horford can be put on the bench?

vava74

August 29th, 2012
6:06 am

brigadier,

I think s a s is considering Petro as the Hawks starting C and maybe putting Horford behind Scott in the depth chart :-D

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
7:25 am

Jae, remember the Hawks would still currently have Harris as the point guard here. And I agree. I would put Westbrook at the 2 guard. And would watch him drop 27-31 ppg. I think with Westbrook and Josh on board the Hawks would have a strong case to add CP3 or D12. Another option would be to add Tyreke Evans to Westbrook. I think Al, Teague, and Houston’s lottery protected pick could get Westbrook. This would allow OKC to trade Perkins and create space to re-sign Harden.

CP3 – Westbrook – Josh would give Miami all sorts of problems.

richbrave

August 29th, 2012
7:40 am

Thought I’d swing by and give a shout-out to my friends here on the HAWKS blog. Been absorbed by the BRAVES run for the pennant and my grandson’s game in YANKEE stadium, and workout with the BRAVES, ROYALS, GIANTS et.al. That, travel ball for two grandson’s, baby-sitting three days a week for granddaughters, plus my wife’s ilness makes for a busy summer. All the best HAWKS afns. Only two of DR.MARY B’s fab five left standing in the HOTLANTA.

richbrave

August 29th, 2012
7:49 am

I see DICK TARRENT still lives as KENNY ATKINSON is now an assistant with the HAWKS.

Developed by coach TARRENT as a PG here at the UNIVERSITY of RICHMOND, KENNY was a tough customer, and an excellent ball-player. I still see coach at the annual retirement-benefits gigs for the university.

Buddy Grizzard

August 29th, 2012
8:14 am

“buddy how can “one” help bynum and the “other” not, is what i heard you imply.”

Collins the coach will help Bynum because he’s the best coach Bynum has played for since Phil Jackson. Collins the “de facto GM” is not helping Bynum because letting Lou walk means there will be a lot more pressure to create offense. Bynum is used to having Kobe there to manufacture shots when the offense breaks down. If Lou Williams was still on the 76ers, he could play that role of offensive creator. Now the pressure is all on Bynum to create offense. Collins the GM did him no favors.

Ken Strickland

August 29th, 2012
8:43 am

It doesn’t make a lot of sense to complain about us having 17 guards and then suggest we trade away our starting PG and All NBA OC, and top rebounder, for another guard. With LWilliams, DHarris, JTeague, AMorrow, and JJenkins, why would anyone think we’d need more scoring potential from the SG position?

To put it another way, why give up Teague and Horford’s higher combined RPG, PPG, APG, SPG, BPG, and more efficient FG%, for one player that duplicates what we already have an abundance of? Take a look at Westbrook’s stats and tell me if he can make up for what we’d be giving up with Teague and Horford. You what to talk about being fans of certain players?

vava74

August 29th, 2012
8:51 am

Ken,

Stop looking at players as cumulative stats.

If you have an all star player who gives you 22 points, 8 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, … in 38 minutes, more often than not, you are not actually and effectively replacing that production if you have two players who can get the same stats in similar minutes.

That is not how things work. Basketball is a team sport and there are on court dynamics which are not translated in stats.

MsDee

August 29th, 2012
9:21 am

Well in that case, vava74, why give up 2 players for one when THAT ONE PLAYER could easily be stopped vs trying to contain 2 players??

KevinM

August 29th, 2012
9:40 am

“Jae Evolution

August 28th, 2012
7:38 pm
“Wilson Chandler is owed 26M the next 4 years….there is no way I touch him for those nimbers. IMO, another Marvin Williams scenario at the end of that deal. Denver overpaid.”

Jeff Green – 36M 4 years
Gerald Wallace 40M 4 years
Luol Deng – 26M 2 years
Tayshaun Prince – 22M 3 years
Danny Granger – 26M 2 years
Thaddeus Young – 35M 4 years
Trevor Ariza – 14M 2 years

Those are just numbers for guys on the East…I’m sorry but did you even see some of the SF contracts handed out to guys OLDER than Chandler who do LESS than he does? The guy is only 25 and most people forgot about him while he was in China then got injured, but for what he produces when on the court he is the friendliest contract out there, the numbers speak for themselves.”

Jae, just because all these guys are convincing teams to sign them to these deals, why would we fall down the same hill? We just dumped bad long term deals, and Chandler looks good enough to invest 26M? I don’t agree. Let’s just see if he even starts in Denver. His nimbers rival Marvin….haven’t we been here before?

And Chandler isn’t going to any all-star game this year or be in anyone’s big 3. That is what we need here more than another complementary player.

vava74

August 29th, 2012
9:40 am

MsDee,

Ken is trying to bundle stats from players who play on bad teams and against bench players from other teams as if that meant getting the same production from a starter on a playoff team.

ie:

10 ppg, achieved for instance by a guy like Morrow whilst playing for the Nets and even as bench player for the Nets in dozens of blowout losses cannot be added to the ppg from a similar player on a similar situation to give you a Ray Allen.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
9:41 am

Roster full of guards, coaching staff full of guards. Anyone really expecting Josh and Al to stay in the low post this coming season?

vava74

August 29th, 2012
9:52 am

KevinM,

Man… 6.8 per from Chandler is more than fair price.

He is agile, long, good touch. Heck, he is offensively heaps and bounds better than Marvin and as far as I remember, decent on D.

He can even play token minutes at the PF, IMO.

Definitively not dollar store material.

If we managed to trade for him dumping some of our several thousand Gs I would do it.

glw

August 29th, 2012
10:11 am

I definitely think Wilson Chandler is a good bargain and an overall good tough player, but I dont see Ferry giving up his financial flexibliity on a long term deal. He will ride this year out with what he gots, other than swapping an expiring deal for a legit 3.

He wants to at least test out the free agent market and see if he can sign one of the big free agent targets next year. If he doesnt land one, then maybe they would visit a deal for Chandler if he hasnt been traded.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
10:14 am

Co-sign doc at 10:11.

Read something yesterday that pointed out that Memphis will be a luxury tax team for the next 2 seasons unless they unload some contracts (or use their amnesty clause). The cap space next summer could also be used to secure one of their 3 frontcourt players for pennies on the dollar.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
10:15 am

Oops, not doc, but glw. My eyes are playing tricks on me this morning, either that or I am just aging in dog years at this point. (Probably a little of both).

KevinM

August 29th, 2012
10:15 am

Vava, to me, Chandler is another Trevor Ariza, a Ron Artest who fills up the salary tank but is not a huge impact. He’s 5.9 this year, and 7+M in year 4. I think Denver jumped too quick on giving him this deal and I’m willing to let him play it out there.
We need to be thinking guys who are all-star material and who impact their team on a regular basis. I have yet to see Chandler do anything near that.
“Nice role player” – defines Chandler. Why are we trying to pump up guys like this instead of looking for true difference makers? It makes for a smaller pool, but it is what it is…it’s all-stars that make a championship.
Role players need to make Mario Chalmers type money. Those salaries aren’t hard to swallow.
On a side note, I will be totally surprised if Petro earns his 3.5M. This guy needs to be gone quicker than bringing him here. Throw Korver in that mix as well.

vava74

August 29th, 2012
10:44 am

KevinM,

Chandler was putting excellent numbers in NY before he got traded on that logjam which was DEN before the lockout.

1.4 blk per game to go along good shooting stats. I think he has very good potential and he will only be 26 at the end of this coming season.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
11:23 am

Kevin, if the Hawks can’t afford a $7M player as their “4th guy”, then we need to start supporting a different team.

Just Joe

August 29th, 2012
11:28 am

I’ve seen where Chandler’s 4th year is a team option, but I do not see Ferry adding any salary for next year.

Ken Strickland

August 29th, 2012
11:30 am

VALVA74-You said it best when you said BASKETBALL IS A TEAM SPORT, and not a sport comprised of one All Star player. How else can I show that the production or stats of 1 player(Westbrook) can’t replace the production or stats of 2 players(Horford and Teague) without combining their stats and production? Now you want to dictate how I make my points.

That trade suggestion wouldn’t serve the team and its goals one bit. In fact, it would serve to hurt the team. It would only satisfy the fondness some fans have for Westbrook, and the total lack of appreciation some have for Horford and Teague.

BIG RAY alluded to the fact that some HORFORD HATERS try to deny who and what they are by claiming they don’t have personal issues with him. Yet, he seems to be the entire focal point of any trade suggestion you make.

If getting rid of Horford isn’t your main focus, why suggest trading your starting All Star and All NBA center and potential All Star caliber PG for an All Star PG/SG, who can’t function without the ball, when rebounding and interior size are already issues. After all, don’t we already have an abundance of guards? Why don’t you include Josh in your trade suggestions since he’ll be a FA and will cost the team much more than Horford?

To me, trading Josh and keeping Horford would make more sense, considering Horford
1-is just as good at rebounding,
2-can play OC and PF equally as effectively,
3-is a much more efficient and effective scorer,
4-is a much better option as a stretch 4,
5-is just as effective as a passer since he generates fewer turnovers
6-is far more mature and far less tempermental
7-doesn’t lose focus and take plays off while arguing with the refs,
8-is far more physical and capable of defending and scoring over bigger and taller players,
9-has been recognized by coaches, players and writers, and rewarded for his attributes, while Josh has been all but ignored because of his continued immaturity despite having All Star caliber talent and production.
10-has led the Hawks to the playoffs every yr since his arrival, when Josh and JJ couldn’t sniff the playoffs before his arrival.

Fortunately for the franchise DFerry isn’t stupid, and won’t do what some of you continuously suggest when it comes to Horford, and Teague as well. He’s positioned this franchise financially so that we can retain our current core of Teague, Horford and Josh, while still having the ability to go after 2 very high caliber FAs.

Stop pissing on these blogs while claiming it’s raining.

doc

August 29th, 2012
11:36 am

Ah he giveth and he taketh away. So you disagree with the comments made at 10pm ish, AJ?

BG, thanks for filling it out and agree with what you said. Still not confident bynum and collins wont clash in a case of wills. I dont think you will disagree that wont be a story to watch for one way or the other.

doc

August 29th, 2012
11:47 am

Ken S some truth there but some still are in the desert seeing mirages. Heh heh

Maybe you can also say some positives about josh to balance it out. :-)

Ken, I like both guys as they compliment each other well. Argued some of that a long time ago with a brother no longer here that seemed to not like the combo.

Anyone hear if Zaza has healed his fracture? Did he play any ball this summer? Hope he hasnt lost his spring like they say happened to Anderson. Oh? Zaza has no spring to lose?

Overall not too concerned if they look to all the factors including PT, foot support and proper footwear and getting suppliments like d3 to strengthen bone along with mg, boron and k2. If it was within ankle that is another matter.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
11:55 am

doc, sorry, i was mostly interested in the Chandler banter, as i like his game (and contract). But I also agree with Just Joe, Ferry won’t likely add any long-term salaries unless it is for a known “franchise cornerstone” and Chandler probably is a notch below that tier of players.

pointguardslim

August 29th, 2012
12:03 pm

Pointguardslim: Buddy G, now do Josh Smith as a SF and tell us about rebounding, and assists.

Buddy G: You don’t want that story. [aka I don't want to but here goes:]
#1 in rebounding ability/percentage/total
#5 in assist ability/total

LeBron James, SF 6.2
Andre Iguodala, SF 5.5
Paul Pierce, SF 4.5
Josh Smith, SF 3.9
Kevin Durant, SF 3.5

Ken Strickland

August 29th, 2012
12:12 pm

I did a bit of research on the starting Eastern Conference centers and discovered that based on overall production only ABynum is rated higher than Horford and only GMonroe is rated equal to him.

DOC-I believe that instead of trying to get rid of what we need most, we need to try and add to it. I also believe that our abundance of backcourt players and shooters will allow Ferry to make a trade or 2 for what we need to balance out our roster. There won’t be any movement by us until after the players we acquired in the 2 trades will be eligible to be included in trades.

I just don’t see us going into the season with an accumulation of LWilliams, JTeague, DHarris, AMorrow, JJenkins, JAnderson, DStephenson, and potentially KKorver, making up our backcourt. Expiring contracts, plus a possible trade exception or 2nd rd pick, should get us an acceptable SF.

vava74

August 29th, 2012
12:24 pm

Astro Joe
August 29th, 2012
11:55 am:
“doc, sorry, i was mostly interested in the Chandler banter, as i like his game (and contract).”

I am relieved to know that under your eyes Chandler is not an under-developed and underutilized house pet in the form of a three legged rat !!!

Stephen

August 29th, 2012
12:28 pm

I wonder if Bob Weiss will bring back the slogan he ran when he was the Hawks coach. Lets run one!

Just Joe

August 29th, 2012
12:30 pm

Swapping Devin Harris for an expiring player and a pick may be the only type trade we see.

Cleveland for Luke Walton and a pick. Cleveland has their own pick, the Heat’s pick, and the Kings’ pick (top 13 protected), and have the rights to swap any of those picks for the Lakers’ pick.

Milwaukee for Sam Dalembert.

Detroit with Stevenson for Maggette and a pick.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
12:35 pm

vava, to the contrary, I think he is the perfect SF for our team. In our conference, we need a SF who will defend AND force the opposing SF to defend. Chandler plays bigger than his size and has some real “dog” in him (as opposed to a 3-legged rat). And, IMO, he has a GREAT contract. He is like a younger (and healthier) version of Caron Butler. I’m hoping that Denver keeps him until next summer because I personally doubt that they will want to have 3 wings making $7M+ and I would gladly take either Chandler or Gallinari off their hands (I’m not a big Iggy fan for our team).

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
12:52 pm

Just Joe, I think we need to maintain very good PG depth… so if we’re trading Devin Harris, we need to know that we have more than just Lou Williams (or a Brad Wanamaker type) playing 12+ minutes/game at PG.

steven a smith

August 29th, 2012
12:56 pm

brigadierjerry

August 29th, 2012
5:23 am
stephen a smith,

With this team as currently constituted, who exactly is taking Horford’s starting position so Horford can be put on the bench?

After trainig camp, I invision Keith Benson making this roster. I watched him play Summer League Basketball and knew right away that this guy has a future in someones rotation. He is allready a better shot blocker than all on the Hawks except Josh. I believe he is going to surprise much in the same way as Dominique Davis has for the Atlanta Falcons..

cdog

August 29th, 2012
2:08 pm

moves are favorable except the hiring of rick sund.don”t let him make no player decisions, he knows none.

Ken Strickland

August 29th, 2012
2:09 pm

STEVEN A SMITH-So, in using DDavis as an example of what you’d like to see done with AHorford, would you also suggest the Falcons bench QB MRyan and start Davis? And how much intelligence has to be missing for anyone to suggest we bench a 2 time All Star and All NBA center still approaching him prime for a player that impressed you during the SUMMER LEAGUE gms no less?

Judging from your trade and player suggestions, it’s painfully obvious you don’t know very much about basketball and have absolutely no idea about judging talent. However, you have to be given an A for effort. You remind me of a student that gets good grades for being the teachers pet, not for an ability to do the work.

Ken Strickland

August 29th, 2012
2:26 pm

If Cleveland can’t sign AGee before we’re able to include the players we’ve acquired in trades, I have a sneaky idea that DFerry might end up offering AGee a FA contract. That move might force Cleveland into doing a sign and trade with us, especially if Gee wants that. It could be like a mini version of the JJ sign and trade.

What separates Gee from all of the other SG/SF that are potentially available to us is his ability to play above average DEF at both positions. Defensively he can give us what JJ gave us, but with more speed, quickness, athleticism and endurance. I would be very interested in seeing how a starting lineup of PG JTeague, SG JJenkins, SF AGee, PF JSmith, and OC AHorford would do.

I believe this starting lineup would be better than last yrs.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
2:31 pm

Strickland, Ferry can’t offer gee more than a minimum salary because the Hawks are over the salary cap. The only options we have to acquire a SF is to either trade for one or sign someone to a minimum-level contract. In theory, Ferry could trade Morrow to the Cavs for Gee, but that would likely require a long-term contract and remove some available cap space from next summer.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
2:33 pm

And the above trade idea (Morrow for Gee) would require a S&T with the Cavs and I honestly don’t know if they need Morrow or any other disposable player on our roster.

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
2:58 pm

KenS, Your list for reasons of keeping Al over Josh is full of so many things not backed up by actual stats.

1-is just as good at rebounding, — Josh is actually a better rebounder than Al, but Josh has always be responsible for getting back on defense to hinder any fast break opportunities. So Al always have gotten more OPPORTUNITIES on the offensive boards.
2-can play OC and PF equally as effectively, – This is a false statement. I did the calculations (you can do them yourself if you like). In all of the games (not even including the playoffs) that Al played PF in 2010-2011 (season before he was injured), Al averaged a whopping 12 PPG and 7.6 RPG. This is at his ‘natural position’ that you claim. That sounds like all star numbers doesn’t it? And in the playoffs where Al started exclusively at the PF position – Al averaged 11.3 PPG and 9.6 RPG while shooting 42% from the field.

3-is a much more efficient and effective scorer, – You can not be considered an effective scorer if you can not create your own shot. And if when you’re at PF or C, you can’t do any better than averaging 12 ppg, that is not a ‘SCORER’. I’ve never known of an effective scorer who averaged 12 ppg.

4-is a much better option as a stretch 4, – A stretch 4? How are you a stretch 4 and only shoots 42% from the field in the playoffs at the 4 position? What are you stretching there? Also who was the last stretch 4 to win a title? (Dirk isn’t a stretch 4, he is a scorer that’s different). You don’t pay a stretch 4 $12 million a season.

5-is just as effective as a passer since he generates fewer turnovers- How is he an effective passer when he can’t facilitate for himself or others. There are assists that come in the frame of the offense. And assists that come making a play. Aside from the one regular season Chicago game, Al doesn’t make plays. Al points come off of offense created by others.

6-is far more mature and far less tempermental – Have you ever had a conversation with Al or Josh? LD stated Josh was the first out of ALL of the players including Bibby, who’s basketball iq is never questioned, to learn the playbook. And then on top of that, on the off season after getting the closest to the ECF this franchise has ever been, Al reports to camp OUT OF BASKETBALL SHAPE. How is that mature? When Josh gained weight, it wasn’t because he wasn’t working out, it was so he could defend more in the post. Al just showed up not in premium shape, opposed to Josh, Joe, and Teague.

7-doesn’t lose focus and take plays off while arguing with the refs, – Name an all star in the league who really cares, and never loses focus for a play or two while talking with referee? Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant, Dirk, Melo, Rose, KG, Pierce, and Duncan have all been seen taking a play to talk to a ref, and it results in the opposition scores. Guess you don’t want those guys either.

8-is far more physical and capable of defending and scoring over bigger and taller players- This one is funny. So why couldn’t he score over Taj Gibson, Boozer, or Brandon Bass? And why was he shut down after Amare called Al out? Yet, Chicago puts their best defender in Noah on Josh, and Josh still go for career numbers in a series? Boston puts KG on Josh, and Josh still have great numbers while playing on one knee after being hurt.
,
9-has been recognized by coaches, players and writers, and rewarded for his attributes, while Josh has been all but ignored because of his continued immaturity despite having All Star caliber talent and production. – Al was recognized because of injuries, and the fact that he plays a different position. A 12 pts, 9 reb center in the league, may get you into the all star game. However a 12 pt, 9 reb FORWARD won’t get you into any all star game. THAT is why Al made all star game.

10-has led the Hawks to the playoffs every yr since his arrival, when Josh and JJ couldn’t sniff the playoffs before his arrival. – Wrong. Al did not LEAD the Hawks into the playoffs. Was Al more effective than Sheldon Williams, of course. But the Hawks made the playoffs the first year more because of Mike Bibby’s presence. The Hawks were in the 9-10th seed before the all star break when Bibby was required. There’s a difference between LEADING and being an able body on a good team. IF he lead the team to the playoffs, how did they still manage to get a four seed without him playing majority of the season? I assure you, Chicago will not get the number 1 seed without Rose this season.

Al is a really good ROLE player. But making him out to be some sort of franchise savior is just wrong. I’ve never seen a player average 12 ppg for 5 seasons, and be considered so wonderful. Al is a pretty good center. I really like Al at the center position. However, Al is an average power forward. And he’s not a true difference maker.

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
3:10 pm

Ken, most who consider trading Al (in a rational way), thinks so in terms of feeling a need and going forward. For instance, Rudy Gay – Josh – Zaza is better than Morrow – Josh – Al. And its better than Morrow – Al Horford – Al Jefferson.

By the way, you said why trade Al Horford for a player like Westbrook? Seriously? The Hawks haven’t lost because of defense and rebounding in the playoffs. The Hawks defense have actually been pretty good, even without Al and with Zaza. The Hawks lost because not enough play makers and scorers on the floor. R. Westbrook almost beat the Miami Heat in game 4 by himself, with limited help from Durant, and no help from Harden. This was in the FINALS. If you think Westbrook wouldn’t also attract another all star level player to join him and Josh in the summer, you’re wrong. Westbrook COULD lead a team to a Finals appearance and a title. I strongly believe this.

Rod from College Park

August 29th, 2012
3:14 pm

Ra’mon,

Bravo.

Rod from College Park

August 29th, 2012
3:15 pm

“The Hawks haven’t lost because of defense and rebounding in the playoffs. The Hawks defense have actually been pretty good, even without Al and with Zaza. The Hawks lost because not enough play makers and scorers on the floor.”

CHURCH, PREACH, TABERNACLE!!!!!!!!

O'Brien

August 29th, 2012
3:20 pm

Steven A,

See Chris Redman and John Bob Parker getting CUT.

This is your idea of change? Last I checked, Chris Redman and John Parker Wilson were 2nd and 3rd string respectively, and have been that way for their entire careers. If Matt Ryan stays healthy, it wont matter who the backup and 3rd stringer is.

Slim,

Al’s an Allstar with good trade value.. He will be offered up again down the road sometime for sure..

Agreed. And for the right deal, I would trade Al. However, if Al goes back to beng boss Al, I think him and Zaza make a good center combination.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
3:24 pm

Ra’mon, kind of stacking the deck there, huh? You offer up examples of front-court line-ups for the future and stack the deck in favor of a Josh-built line-up. How is it that Morrow is our long-term SF if we don’t trade Horford? I’m pretty sure that any frontcourt that has Morrow playing SF will appear to lack in quality. I’d rather have Zaza, Horford and Chandler than Zaza, Josh and Morrow (as an example).

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
3:27 pm

OB, the Horford from the past years (the one that wasn’t the boss but still averaged 15/10 with 3.5 assists on 55% shooting and only 12 FGAs) is plenty good for me. I’d like to see him become more physical, but it hasn’t exactly destroyed his production.

O'Brien

August 29th, 2012
3:27 pm

Jae Evolution,

I think A Westbrook for Rondo trade would do wonders for both teams. OKC has KD and Harden, so Rondo at PG to get them easy shots would help, plus Rondo helps on the glass, and defends. In Boston, Westbrook would get all the shots he wants, because Paul Pierce and KG need help on offense.

But rather than trade for Westbrook, how about just waiting until next year and offering Harden a max contract (~4 years, $60 mil)?

O'Brien

August 29th, 2012
3:28 pm

KevinM, Just Joe,

Would you prefer Chandler for 4 years, $26 mil (4th year team option), or Rudy Gay at 3 years, $43 mil? I like Rudy Gay, but for the money, give me Chandler.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
3:47 pm

I think this whole “if he becomes Boss Al again” thing is misplaced. I think the issue is the scheme and philosophy of the new head coach. I really don’t know what it is that Al is doing differently from his so-called “Boss” days vs. what he did in his last healthy season. The biggest difference is the location of his FGAs, but isn’t the same true for Josh as well? Did they get “soft” together or did the head coach build a scheme that demands more FGAs from outside of the paint? LD also de-emphasized offensive rebounding because the Hawks were routinely getting beat on opposing fast breaks. So any rebounding issues are likely related to LD’s philosophy. My guess, both Josh AND Al saw their offensive rebounding drop when LD came on board (and Zaza, too). It feels like folk are blaming Horford for executing his head coach’s strategy.

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
3:58 pm

Ra’mon with a MASTER PIECE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HANDS CLAPPING AND STANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Freaking Awesome stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JOSH > AL…. NO CONTEST!

Slimjr

August 29th, 2012
4:01 pm

Sorry Ramon, I did it again… LOL!

O'Brien

August 29th, 2012
4:03 pm

AJ,

I don’t know if it can be put into numbers, but he doesn’t seem as physical in his style of play

MsDee

August 29th, 2012
4:08 pm

AJ,

I didnt look at it that way but it DOES seem like all the Horford haters are blaming him for executing Drew’s strategy! Horford is an unselfish player with a very high b-ball IQ. He chooses to play within the flow of the game, not trying to take matters into his own hands like Josh has. Dont get me wrong, Josh is a great athlete but does things over and beyond what he is asked to do and/or capable of doing. Im sure if AL had a coach who thought enough to make more plays for him, he would be averaging the points/reb he needed but other coaches, obviously see more than what u guys see.

Slimjr

August 29th, 2012
4:08 pm

Ask your self this question.. Can AL’s [AllStar] skills take this team to an ECF? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Can he hold carry or hold it down like Josh did during his Allstar run, Feb- April when the Hawks really needed him too since they lost Al and then Joe for a stretch of games?

Not in this time line for sure…

AllStar, right…

doc

August 29th, 2012
4:09 pm

aj, dont try to reason, you only come off as an apologist. where jpsh moved out beyond the three point line al went to the top of the circle. too friggin funny that i guess josh went there to get back on defense to break up fast break ops for the other team and not to shoot threes, that went up exponentially. it was defensive strategy or were you too stupid to realize it? as we have trouble scoring josh moves out to shoot threes but al antagonist say he is to blame, is soft and has set up too far outside while um his fg avg stays about the same. yup, offensive worries we got and it is about defense first; no, it isnt about josh working his way out where jj stood. no not soft, eh?

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
4:12 pm

AJ, the point I’m making is, what Al would get back in a trade, would make a better team, if one was moved, than no moves, or than what Josh would get back (with his contract expiring). In other words, we have way more depth at the C position than we do at the SF. And Zaza is way better than Morrow. So if I had to choose out of Zaza starting or Morrow starting with Al being moved for a high level SF, than I would choose Zaza and the high level SF.

Also when people say the term ‘Boss’ its not about the production. We’re talking about the attitude and the style of play. ‘Boss’ Al used to foul a guard hard if they came to be the basket. ‘Boss’ always seemed like he would run anyone over for a lose ball. ‘Boss’ pretty much was Ivan before Ivan in his first two years, until the tragedy in Toronto. IMO, from that day, it seemed like Al’s intensity started to decrease little by little after that. ‘Boss’ plays like he’s not scared of anyone. This Al appeared to get punked out by Amare, Gibson, and Bass. ‘Boss’ wouldn’t have done that. You want a post player that plays with a lot of heart, and a lot of intelligence. But you also want a post player who sometimes makes a play that is more heart than intelligence. Notice how Josh requested a trade because he was tired of losing, and losing the same way every year. Yet Al doesn’t seem to make any public comments about not being satisfied losing in the playoffs. Its almost as if Al has that Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter heart now. But ‘Boss’ had that Haslem and Charles Oakley type sense about him. Haslem and Oakley weren’t more skilled than Vince Carter. However, you would see a championship caliber coach call Haslem or Oakley to join their team before calling Vince even in his prime. Josh and Zaza are the only Hawks from the last two seasons who appear to be miserable when the Hawks lose in the playoffs. Joe, Al, Teague, and Marvin act as if they’re ready for their vacation to start. But ‘Boss’ made you feel like he cared just as much as anyone.

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
4:14 pm

O’B, I really don’t want Rudy Gay. I was just using him for an example. Now If you asked me if I’d rather have Andre Iguodala or Chandler, it’d be AI2 even over Al.

Slimjr

August 29th, 2012
4:23 pm

Were not the Hawks a top 6 NBA defensive team w/o ALL NBA last season? Hmmmm

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
4:26 pm

Ra’mon, quitting because you aren’t winning isn’t a quality worth admiring. It sure isn’t how i will teach my sons, “if you’re team is losing, it is okay for you to ask out of that team”.

Josh claims he wants to win, but IMO, Josh wants to be the one to make winning plays. There is a difference. If I’m building a team, I want to guy who doesn’t sulk on the court, doesn’t make the sour face when things go against his way and doesn’t want to take his ball and play somewhere else because the fans hate to see him take ill-advised shots. That’s NOT the guy I’m building around if I’m looking to create an environment like San Antonio has enjoyed for 10+ years. And certainly, I’m not paying a near-max deal to a player who only averages around 15 points/game.

doc

August 29th, 2012
4:26 pm

well all star slimj the combo of dearly departed jj and jamal with al and josh never made it so if he doesnt that doesnt imply he is the cause. fractious logic there.

if i were a betting man and you offered it up to me for say ten bucks al would do it and i could bet he wouldnt based on previous sampling, i would take your bet and be happy to pay you ten dollars if he did make it there. sadly, i think the basg had a lot to do with impeding our chase into the promised ecf land a few years ago by being so frugal when there were few obstacles, in not getting a real point guard that could play both ways and another big. if that had happened we could say josh and al had already done it. yes, that is about as speculative as all the other bs on here and i freely admit it. would al mean more to the minions here if the basg had been a little more progressive than to want to put entertainment on the floor?

so how about i take the bet that he deosnt say for ten? feel better already?

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
4:26 pm

O’B, also you trade for Westbrook instead of signing Harden because Westbrook is as talented as Derrick Rose. Westbrook is actually more athletic than Rose. The only problem is Westbrook is playing out of position. Harden is as talented as Joe in Phoenix. And I’m sure I don’t need to explain that. Harden couldn’t produce in the Finals as a 3rd option. I don’t see how he would ever lead a team to the Finals as the best player on the team. Truthfully, Westbrook should play 2 guard. And Harden is a 2 guard. Westbrook is a better 2 guard than Harden. So I choose Westbrook if possible. And then still have room to sign another superstar this off season or next.

O'Brien

August 29th, 2012
4:27 pm

slimjr,

Ask your self this question.. Can AL’s [AllStar] skills take this team to an ECF? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Two questions for you.

1) Is there anyone on this blog who has said Al can lead this team to an ECF?
2) Can Josh lead this team to an ECF?

I look forward to your reply.

Grandad

August 29th, 2012
4:29 pm

Enter your comments hereMichael Cunningham

” sorry, not following what you mean? ”

In reference to Big Ray`s comments:
e g; *Lame duck etc.

I do not know what is so hard to follow:
Lame Duck = Larry Drew [LD]

LD`s comments: … [concernin Weiss]
‘`be that birdie on my shoulder
as far as suggestions and ideals and what he sees,
“I started interviewing and compiling a list of guys.
I met with Bob for a second interview
I thought he was the perfect guy from a consultant standpoint.
giving me ideas and giving me opinions with the team as a whole.
I’ve always admired him from afar …..
didn’t know him personally–but watched from afar`’

* -the above was edited bullcrap- … (actual quotes) from LD

~also~

More comments from LD:

‘` Kenny came highly recommended as a guy
I did a lot of research on him talked to a lot of people.
I interviewed him a couple times and
thought he was a great candidate
to be that third assistant coach and a player development guy.`’

-again-
LD acting as if these were his decisions.
-plus-
the dismissal of his other two asst.
* Danny Ferry > LD.

note:
Weiss is a good basketball mind.
he was not a good HC.
however he brings a wealth of exp to the organization.
Also, most of us acquire wisdom with age and exp;
if for no other reason than osmosis.

opinion:
(1) – Weiss is helping to evaluate certain players:
*[namely Josh]
(2) – Weiss is on board to ascertain the best possible fit
for the HC which will inevitablely unseat LD.
____________________________________________

-additional manure-

“ I thought Kenny Gattison and Tyrone Hill did a really good job but,
like with anything else,
you are always looking to enhance what you have
and try to make a situation you feel can help the ball club,
“I felt it was time for a change.”

Question ?
Why didn`t LD feel this need for change
-immediately-
at the conclusion of the season ?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ?

Grandad

August 29th, 2012
4:32 pm

How did:
“enter your comments here”
get on the screen ?

Slimjr

August 29th, 2012
4:32 pm

O’Brien, Danny probably already has the answer.Hmmmm.Watch what he does with one of them after this coming season of evaluations…

Slimjr

August 29th, 2012
4:36 pm

If you had only one shot and one hand to dribble with, you’d play within the system too..

In fact you’d give the ball up like a hot potato and raise your assist to turnover ratio..

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
4:36 pm

Ra’mon, there are a few dozen ways to handle a frustration about a team’s outcome in the playoffs that are afr better than asking for a trade. And most of those ways would never be publicized to adoring fans. Sorry, you provided a lot of subjective stuff that assumes you know all of the behind the scenes discussions and issues regarding the team. I just watched Horford “leave it all on the floor” in the last few playoff games. When Josh made that stupid pass in Game 5, I watched Al chase down Rondo to stop a game-winnnng shot. I watched him block 3 shots and put up close to 20/10 while not fully recovered from his injury. I’m not ready to trade him because his production is the same but he is getting it done in the context of his boss’ design… or because he doesn’t ask to be traded because he doesn’t like losing.

That is a slippery slope… how many seasons does a guy play with a team before it is acceptable for him to quit on that team? And who gets to make that decision (on the quitting threshold)? Does the time re-start when a new head coach is hired? How about a new GM? if so, what is the new timeframe? Do you see my point? Suggesting that quitting on your team is a metric to evaluate a player’s heart seems foolish to me. Having the desire to quit on a team is nothing I would ever consider placing on a pedestal.

MsDee

August 29th, 2012
4:38 pm

Ask your self this question.. Can AL’s [AllStar] skills take this team to an ECF? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I say neither could by themselves but together, W/O ISO JOE, I say YES!! Esp if Drew’s Preston’s offense is ran EXACTLY like it is suppose to be ran, again I Say YES!!

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
4:38 pm

AJ, you say Josh wants to be traded so he can be the one making the winning plays. However the teams he were rumored to want to be traded to (LAL, Boston, and Orlando with Dwight) each were teams where he wouldn’t have been the number 1 option. So why would Josh request to be traded to a team where there are Hall of Fame caliber players who are number 1 options, if he wants to be ‘the guy’? In fact, even when Jamal was here, it seemed as if Josh was always the guy cheering and celebrating the MOST when OTHER players made game winning shots. That doesn’t sound like a guy who wants to be the guy and demands being. However, Josh stance was if its between Joe, Al, and Josh, then yes he should be the guy because he’s better than each. Out of Joe, Al, and Josh, Josh is the most willing and capable passer of the three, so yea the offense should’ve run through him. That doesn’t mean he averages the most points.

And you just said it isn’t ok to ask to be traded off a team that is losing, then you don’t want any of the stars on your team. Kobe wanted to be traded because Kupchak wasn’t making the moves to win a title. KG left Minnesota, as Ray Allen left Milwaukee and Seattle, because they weren’t winning or competing for a title. Lebron left Cleveland because he wasn’t winning titles. Wade was on the verge of signing with Chicago if Miami didn’t make the big move of adding the ‘big three’. Tim Duncan was just hours away from joining Grant Hill and McGrady in Orlando, because he didn’t think he could win with the young players around him. So you’re saying that you don’t admire Kobe, KG, Allen, Duncan, Lebron, or Wade’s will to win? Wow.

O'Brien

August 29th, 2012
4:39 pm

Ra’mon,

After this season, Westbrook will be owed ~ 4 years, $64 mil, so I think salary wise, him and Harden will be a wash. And although Harden disappeared in the finals, lets not forget that 1) Westbrook was going up against Chalmers and Cole at PG (Harden was going up against better defenders) and 2) Westbrook did go 4-20 in game 1 and 10-26 in game 3.

That being said, all things being equal, I would prefer Westbrook. But all things are not equal. Harden is a FA, and signing him would allow us to keep Teague and Al. I think Teague would be fine as the starting PG (on a reasonable salary), and then we can flip Al for other assets (or keep him).

If we trade Al and Teague for Westbrook, we would then have to go out and sign a PG, and another solid big.

doc

August 29th, 2012
4:40 pm

yes grandad, yes to all of the above. guess it was ld’s timelt reassessment of the 2011-2012 season that was a bit faster than the ajc’s that allowed ld the wisdom to make a change. it was kind of like the season review we got from then hawks management that everyone was on go, players, coaches and management, for another run at it since they had been so successful last year. ha!

O'Brien

August 29th, 2012
4:45 pm

Ra’mon,

Notice how Josh requested a trade because he was tired of losing, and losing the same way every year. Yet Al doesn’t seem to make any public comments about not being satisfied losing in the playoffs..

Really Ra’mon? This is what we are going to criticize Al for? Because (to our knowledge) he never came out and said he is tired of losing in the playoffs?

So I guess if he hasn’t said it to the media, that means he is fine with losing in the playoffs?

And say what you want about T-Mac and his heart, but dude averaged 25 pts, 6 rebs, and 5.5 assists in his playoff career.

O'Brien

August 29th, 2012
4:46 pm

Slimjr,

I didn’t ask about Danny and his opinion. I asked you 2 questions about your opinion. I hope you provide an answer.

Slimjr

August 29th, 2012
4:51 pm

Guess we’ll find out Obrien. Let the godfather games begin…

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
4:52 pm

AJ, there’s no way you offer Josh the absolute max. He’s not that type of player. However, he is worth a 5 year $80 million contract. Josh is a number 2 option on a championship caliber team, IMO. Al is a number 4 option on a championship caliber team, IMO. And you say how many season does a guy play with a team before he decides he wants to play for another organization? Being that Josh was the longest tenured player on the team, and he’s been here since he 18, I think that’s long enough. This is Josh prime that he is just now entering. Why wouldn’t he want to make sure that he is in the best winning position possible with his prime years? Isn’t this a lot better than what the old stars like Richmond and Drexler did by not title chasing until the end of their careers and taking huge pay cuts to make it happen? Baseball and any one not the quarterback are the players who can spend their entire careers never competing for the title, and still be considered one of the best (how many playoff games did Barry Sanders ever win, and how many rings do Cal Ripken have?). However, in basketball its all about the ring, and then the money. This new generation now sees that the more rings you get, the more endorsements you get. And the more likelier your chances are to make the HoF. AJ, you sit here, like many of us, and dog the moves the Hawks have made over the last 6-7 seasons. But you don’t like that a player see the moves being made, and wish to realign with another organization who have made many more qualities move? That’s like saying you don’t mind seeing another employer make better decisions that lead to a better environment, success, and benefits for their employees, while your employer is satisfied with giving you the minimum, and barely getting by. There is NO way you wouldn’t tell your children not to make the change to go to the company that is going do the best for their life and future, even if it meant a buy out.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
4:59 pm

Ra’mon, I did NOT say that Josh wanted to be traded so he could make winning plays. So that is flat out wrong. I DON’T think his trade request had anything to do with a lack of winning, I think it had to do with his role on the team and the lack of love he received from fans and the Eastern Conference coaches. I think Josh will be FINE playing the big dog role on a team that loses in the first round…. as long as he is the big dog and makes the ASG. If that happens, he would suddenly start claiming how “determined I am to get this team to unprecedented levels”. Which is good spin for saying “I am enjoying being the new Joe Johnson for a team going no where”. I think Josh is about hierarchy and pecking order and who stands in which spot in line. His audacious ego is both a gift and a curse. He dares to do things and that both works and hurts. But I believe it is all about Josh… the team is an innocent bystander in all things Josh.

Jordan was the ultimate winner. We always think of Jordan as the guy who took the winning shot. But I also remember Jordan making the winning pass to guys like Paxton and Kerr and Hodges. Because he was more focused on winning than just being “the man” to make the winning play.

IMO, Josh needs to be the 3rd offensive option on a team. If he is more than that, the team will go no further than the 2nd round. And because Josh is so focused on hierarchy, I doubt that he would ever allow 2 players to join the Hawks and advance in front of him in the offense. IMO, it would be good for him to go to another team where he would be forced to “fall in line” behind established players on that team. I just truly believe that his mindset would not allow that to happen while he is wearing a Hawks uniform. Seriously, if Ferry traded for Gay and signed Harden to a contract, does anyone really believe Josh would willingly take the 3rd most shots on the team and focus his efforts on filling the stat sheet in non-glamorous ways? Sorry, I don’t (especially if he doesn’t make All-Star this season).

Ken Strickland

August 29th, 2012
5:00 pm

RA’MON-So many of the negative things that are being said about Horford on these blogs aren’t backed up by any stats either, so what’s your point.

You go overboard praising Westbrook for his heroics in gm 4 of last yrs playoff series. But couldn’t you have said virtually the same thing about Hawks playoff MVP JTeague in the 2010-2011 playoff series when he went up against league MVP DRose and the Bulls without the support of JJ and Jamal? Stop making excuses, please. EXAMPLE: You said, “JOSH IS ACTUALLY A BETTER REBOUNDER THAN AL, BUT JOSH HAS ALWAYS BE RESPONSIBLE FOR GETTING BACK ON DEFENSE TO HINDER ANY FAST BREAK OPPORTUNITIES. SO AL ALWAYS HAVE GOTTEN MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS.”

WOW! First off, how does helping out on DEF limit your ability to get OFF rebounds? Secondly, wouldn’t getting back on DEF put Josh closer to the basket and in better rebounding position? Here’s another thought your HORFORD BASHING mentality conviently failed to consider. Has Josh spent his entire career, or even part of it, having to rebound, defend, and score, night in and night out, against players that are usually much bigger and taller, or both, like DHoward, ABynum, TChandler, Hibbert, GMonroe, TDuncan, AJefferson, KGarnett, YNoah, BLopez, Shaq etc?

Again, stop making excuses.

Slimjr

August 29th, 2012
5:01 pm

see ya later doc..Ra’mon nailed it….lol!

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
5:03 pm

O’B, wrong. Westbrook was guarded by Wade just as much as he was guarded by Chalmers. Even James guarded Westbrook at times because they couldn’t stop him. The point is, I don’t think Harden could lead this team further than what Joe did. But I do think Westbrook could.

Also, I’m not saying I judge him exclusively by that. But what I am saying is all of the championship level team leaders of the last ten years have each let it be known they weren’t happy not winning somehow. If Al had rumors going around from his father that he didn’t want to play center anymore, he couldn’t send a word through the grapevine about being unhappy with the direction of the Hawks organization before Ferry was hired? Remember Josh never said anything publicly. But from his camp, you knew he wasn’t happy.

And yes TMac had decent numbers. So did Anfernee Hardaway. However, neither of them were that ‘warrior’ that coaches say they want and that you see on each championship team. Haslem, Battier, Chandler, Rodman, Kobe, Garnett, Rondo, Bowen, and others, these guys had something that wasn’t physical or statistical. It was just something where you knew you didn’t want to be between them and a loose ball, a championship, or anything. Each of these guys were bullies and bulldogs in their own way. And in playoff basketball, the bullies normally win. T. Mac and Vince weren’t bullies. The first time he went to the Finals, Dirk wasn’t a bully. ‘Boss’ used to be a bully. Its not about your size, height, or anything.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
5:05 pm

There is NO way you wouldn’t tell your children not to make the change to go to the company that is going do the best for their life and future, even if it meant a buy out.

Ra’mon, can you see the difference between a person leaving to make the proper career move vs. a person telling his bosses, co-workers and customers that he wants to leave because they are all a bunch of losers?

And you think it is admirable to do the latter? Wow!

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
5:05 pm

***Josh claims he wants to win, but IMO, Josh wants to be the one to make winning plays.***

AJ, that WAS your statement. So how did I say it wrong?

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
5:11 pm

I’d tell my kids to leave their “poorly-run” company quietly and respectfully (but only after they moved heaven and earth to make a difference from within). And I would advise them to leave in a manner that shows appreciation for the fact that the company gave them a job and likely provided them with skills and experiences that will help you land your next position (not to mention a salary that allowed them to get out of my house). You don’t leave bad-mouthing everyone around you… especially 12+ months before you actally leave. Come on, man!

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
5:14 pm

Ken, You must have never played or coached basketball before have you? Offensive rebounds or getting back on defense are every bit of related to one another. If my responsibility is to get back on defense to prevent any fast break opportunities. That mean when a shot goes up, I am sprinting back on defense even before a rebound opportunity is there. THIS is why Woody and LD would have Josh on the perimeter many times, not for the jumper, but to prevent fast break opportunities. Josh’s responsibility was to get back when shots went up. And Zaza’s and Al’s responsibility was to crash the board.

Also about Josh banging against those. Josh actually guards Duncan, Garnett, Noah, and Monroe when they play those teams.

AJ, when has Josh ever told his bosses that? But if he has said he wanted to go separate ways, nothing is wrong with that. And if Josh ever was that disrespectful, I’m sure Gearon and ASG would’ve traded him immediately.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
5:20 pm

Ra’mon, where did I say AJ, you say Josh wants to be traded so he can be the one making the winning plays?

I did not say the cause of his trade request was the desire to be the man to make the winning plays. The two are not related nor did I create that linkage… you did.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
5:25 pm

Ra’mon, disrespectful like not meeting with the front office within a few weeks of the season ending? If you say that you want out because you want to win, doesn’t that reasonably suggest that you are tired of working for an organization that is only doing the opposite of winning? If you tell your lady that you prefer to be with a pretty woman, any chance she WON’T be offended? Come on, man.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
5:27 pm

Or to be more specific, “honey, I want out of this relationship because I want to be with a beautiful woman”. Somehow, I doubt that your lady friend would give you a loving good-bye kiss.

steven a smith

August 29th, 2012
5:28 pm

O’Brien

August 29th, 2012
3:20 pm

Steven A,

See Chris Redman and John Bob Parker getting CUT.

This is your idea of change? Last I checked, Chris Redman and John Parker Wilson were 2nd and 3rd string respectively, and have been that way for their entire careers.

Have you watched espn lately. Try the website http://www.thefalcoholic.com Change is coming Obrien whether you accept it or not my friend. Danny Ferry is not going to “Accept “Average Al” as his frontline center, PEROID.

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
5:29 pm

KenS, I’m not bashing Horford at all. And I actually like him. I just don’t think he’s irreplaceable. Scottie Pippen is my favorite player of all time. Yet, I know Lebron is better than Pippen ever was. Being able to analyze how Lebron is better than Pippen different aspects doesn’t mean I’m bashing Pippen. It means I’m simply comparing two players and rating one higher. Truthfully, I’d love to see the Hawks be able to trade Teague and Harris and get back a player like Westbrook or Rose.

Ra'mon

August 29th, 2012
5:32 pm

AJ, it wasn’t planned for them to meet the first two weeks after being eliminated. So its not as if Josh was a no show for a meeting. Josh lives in LA. Most organization wait weeks to do exit interviews. When Ferry was hired, Josh was out of town. However Josh did speak to Ferry and made sure his representative met with Ferry before he could get a chance to arrive in Atlanta. So Josh was never subordinate.

slimjr,

August 29th, 2012
5:42 pm

Enter your comments here

Slimjr

August 29th, 2012
5:43 pm

Shields holding Captain!

Maintain Red Alert Scottie!

Aye Captain!

Slimjr

August 29th, 2012
5:49 pm

Josh lives in LAKER LAND?.

I hope the Lakers dont try and “steal” him as FA? Shoot…

Slimjr

August 29th, 2012
6:00 pm

Westbrook > Harden..We dont want Harden. ISO> Harden..

Al, Teague for Westbrook..Would OKC bite? Naw.. Maybe if you throw in picks?

steven a smith

August 29th, 2012
6:14 pm

Slimjr

August 29th, 2012
6:00 pm

Westbrook > Harden..We dont want Harden. ISO> Harden..

Al, Teague for Westbrook..Would OKC bite? Naw.. Maybe if you throw in picks?

Much too early in the evenig to be drinking slimjim.

Ken Strickland

August 29th, 2012
6:39 pm

RA’MOND-No Hawk player is irreplaceable. And yes, I’ve played and coached basketball, and I played guard. I’ve always seen, been told and understood that it was the PG or SGs responsibility to protect the perimeter against the fastbreak, not your rebounding, shot blocking PF. JSmith being the designated perimeter protector against fastbreaks is a new one on me.

Grandad

August 29th, 2012
6:55 pm

For Ra`mon and Ken S:

If Wdsn & LD have Josh as the get back guy on def
while never crashing the off boards;
then they should (or should have) be / been fired immediately.

*Let us all agree that most coaches have a guard as the get back guy.

*Let us also agree that Josh loafs back on def;
-or-
renders himself useless while carping at the referee.

Now;
Ra`mon made some good points, but I forgot what they were.

BasketballTopFan

August 29th, 2012
7:12 pm

Basketball Top Fan believes that the Atlanta Hawks have a very good basketball team.

The Hawks have a playoff caliber team that will go deep in the playoffs.

Basketball fans eagerly await the start of National Basketball League (NBA) 2012-2013 season.

BasketballTopFan@Yahoo.com

Sautee

August 29th, 2012
7:12 pm

Hey slim,

Props for taking the high road last night.

vava74

August 29th, 2012
7:18 pm

Both Ra’mon and AJ were stellar.

Ra’mon was more of a realist and AJ – funny enough – was the lyric.

AJ, you have to understand that the “values” which you cheerish in life are dimmed out in the sports’ world.

Ra’mon made plenty of good points (minus at least the one Rod agreed to) in “sports’ universe reality”.

AJ, you made plenty of good points in a fairly tale world which does not exist in sports.

Grandad

August 29th, 2012
7:19 pm

Ra`mon

Oh Yeah ” Bullies ”

” ‘warrior’ that coaches say they want
and that you see on each championship team.
Haslem, Battier, Chandler, Rodman, Kobe,
Garnett, Rondo, Bowen, and others,
these guys had something that wasn’t physical or statistical.
It was just something where you knew you didn’t want to be
between them and a loose ball ” -Ra`mon-

I`m glad you brought that up.

When I coached;
I would have my whole team made up of ” bullies ”
-so to speak- … if I could.
I tried to fashion my teams after the “Bad Boy” Pistons.
It is harder than you may think to find these type of players.

Ra`mon:
Here`s the kicker !
I suggest that Al; is / was /and will / continue to be that player.

” If Al had rumors going around from his father
that he didn’t want to play center anymore ” -Ra`mon-

1st … Let`s stop right here.
Conjecture !
-plus-
Al has no control over what his Dad may or may not say.

-last thought-
“Boss used to be a Bully” -Ra`mon-

I think Al is still a Warrior.
If; Al had a downturn,
it started when that coward Blake Griffin took him out.
*[research BG`s rep]

Ken Strickland

August 29th, 2012
7:20 pm

RA’MON-There must be an alternate NBA universe in existence since I haven’t seen our beloved do no wrong PF JSmith playing any of those OCs, certainly not day in and day out as you’re claiming. A 2 time All Star and All NBA center would be the 4th option on a championship team, and a PF who’s gotten no recognition by coaches, players or writers for anything would be the 2nd option? Where are your stats to back that one up?

Do you think Josh would be a 2nd option on the Lakers with Dwight, Gasol and Kobe, or the Thunder, with Durant and Westbrook, or the Heat, with Lebron, DWade and Bosh, or the Celtics with KG, Rondo and Pierce?

Grandad

August 29th, 2012
7:24 pm

-simply put-

Al is the Best Player on the Hawks.

steven a smith

August 29th, 2012
7:29 pm

Ken Strickland

August 29th, 2012
7:20 pm

Al Horford would “Not” crack the starting “5″ for Lakers, OKC, Dallas, Boston, Miami, Clippers, Memphis,,,get the point.

Help me understand if you think i am wrong, but i just do not see Al starting on the top 4-6 playoff teams from last season.

Grandad

August 29th, 2012
7:56 pm

Before everyone jumps down my neck;
I`ll reference what Ra`mon said earlier:
*[paraphrased]
there are certain types of players that exhibit traits
geared toward winning basketball games more so than others.
These traits are often called “intangibles”.
Please allow me to list a very few
of these most important characteristics:
1. a Team Player
2. willingness
3. intelligence
4. the ability to make Teammates better
5. Leadership

A complete player should pair both Skill and Athletic Ability
with one or more of the above list.

For these reasons;
I have chosen Al as the Hawks best player.
He best exemplifies more of these characteristics than others.

Playing the position [3] or [4] is a made up thing.
The same for being the # 1 or 2 or # 3 option on offense;
it`s a made up thing, usually by some coach,
or sometimes the media. [e g; Skip Bayless]
In some cases the coach has no more notion about basketball
than does Bayless, and Skippy knows less than *zero.
*[or worse Rick Sund]

* In other words, this was not about stats.
___________________________________________

I really like Josh;
but folks around here seem to have forgotten about those nights
when Josh is a complete detriment towards winning basketball.

Grandad

August 29th, 2012
8:04 pm

steven a smith

When you get your driver`s license;
I`ll be glad to host a clinic for yourself and others.

Grandad

August 29th, 2012
8:05 pm

steven a smith
-Basketball of course-

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
8:11 pm

vava, I’m not sure what was fairy-tale like nor am I convinced that the standard-bearing organizations in sports handle their business so differently than “the real world”. Didn’t Pat Riley write a book about leadership that he hawked to corporations around the world? Aren’t successful head coaches often featured speakers at corporate functions? If the worlds were so very different, I doubt that there would be as much crossover. Obviously, there are differences, but some of the CULTURAL dynamics are quite similar.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2012
8:13 pm

Amen, Grandad. Now pass the collection plate and let’s go get some Sunday School juice (grape Kool-Aid with a splash of lemonade).

Rusty

August 29th, 2012
8:16 pm

I just wish that we would have gotten a new coach.

Ken Strickland

August 29th, 2012
8:59 pm

Here are the stats for Josh and AL for the 2010-2011 season for comparison. I also included Josh’s 2011-2012 season to show how he managed to improve his scoring stats.

JOSH 2010(2011)(Horford)
FGA-13.5(16.7)(12.0)
FG%-47.7(45.8)(55.7)
FT%-.72(.63)(.80)
MPG-34.4(35.3)(35.1)
PPG-16.5(18.8)(15.3)
RPG-8.5(9.6)(9.3)
APG-3.3(3.9)(3.5)
SPG-1.29(1.46)(.77)
BPG-1.56(1.74)(1.04)
TOPG-2.6(2.5)(1.5)

With Horford out for the season Josh took some of Horford’s shots, which is the main reason his scoring increased, even though his FG% adn FT%decreased. But with a healthy AHorford in 2010, and without those extra shots, his OFF production wasn’t as great as in 2011.

Suppose Josh had been out for the 2011 season instead of Horford, and Horford averaged his 16.7 shots. With his very respectable 55.7FG%, he would have average around 20.5PPG. I got that figure by taking the 4.7 difference in shot attempts(16.7-12=4.7×55.7(Horfords FG%)=2.6179 extra FGs madex2pt per FG=5.2358pts+15.3(Horford’s 2010 scoring average)=20.5358PPG.

The difference in their 2010 scoring averages was due to the considerable difference in 3pt attempts that Josh took and made. As you can see, there’s no intelligent or logical reason to think Josh is a more capable scorer than Horford, which is why NBA players, coaches and writers gave Horford the awards and recogition instead of Josh. Plus there’s the attitude and maturity factor.

Ken Strickland

August 29th, 2012
9:05 pm

STEVEN A SMITH-I’m not a miracle worker. Anyone who thinks an All NBA and 2 time All Star center should be benched in favor of a DLeaguer(Benson), based on his summer league performance, is beyond any ability I have to make you see the light. No matter what, there will always be those who can’t see the forest for the trees.

[...] with the Al Horford [Fan Club] with acting President and CEO Sautee.. Link … Read more on Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)   Tags: among, eBooks, Gathering, Green, Readers, Town « Merkur Eye of [...]

Rick James

August 29th, 2012
9:23 pm

I’m glad to se Nick Van Excel return..

[...] with the Al Horford [Fan Club] with acting President and CEO Sautee.. Link … Read more on Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) Dieser Eintrag wurde veröffentlicht in Spielautomaten und verschlagwortet mit Book, [...]

AG

August 29th, 2012
9:49 pm

Ken.. you are wasting good time with steven a smith. no matter how you flip it, he is a al horford hater!

Ken Strickland

August 29th, 2012
11:11 pm

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1313730-ranking-each-atlanta-hawks-player-by-importance-for-2012-13-season

Here’s a MUST READ for all of you HORFORD HATERS, as well as you closet HORFORD HATERS. If you have any common sense at all, this article should help you see what others have tried to get you to see.

LMAO YALL

August 30th, 2012
4:22 am

Well no body is perfect but this proves the hawks are intent on mediocrity. They were unable to off load Al Horford, and now they bring in the mediocrity maestro Bob (ive never been a winner and dont care to be) Weiss who is also known as the joke of the NBA.

Yeah the hawks are headed to the Lottery. In fact Weiss is Drew’s replacement…LOL Hawks really know talent LOL

I bet Josh wants a trade now from these stupid idiots.

LMAO YALL

August 30th, 2012
4:34 am

Al should not only be benched but traded at the first opportunity. Dude is a loser.

The Hawks offer Al for Danny Granger the deal was declined
The Hawks offer Al for Tony Parker – no Deal
The Hawks offer Al to the Bobcats for 2 draft picks – no deal
The Hawks offer Al to Orlando (throw in teague) no deal

Bottom line the hawks cant find an interested team to take Äll NBA Mr.Average and 2 time AllStar (coach’s add on 5pts average).

If Al was all that then why doest any team want him. We could not get 2 draft picks for Al. Orlando as starved as they were and facing getting absolutely nothing for D12, refused the Hawks offer of Al horford.

The GM’s Al know, Al is an over rated bit role player that you dont build your team around. It only stands to reason that any team

Bob Weiss and Al Horford can only be serious about 1 thing. – Getting to the lottery as fast as you can.

LMAO YALL

August 30th, 2012
4:41 am

*The GM’s All know, Al is an over rated bit role player that you dont build your team around. It only stands to reason that any team

Any one who is critical of Al horfords sub standard career is a Hater? LOL I guess that easier than dealing with the reality of a sub standard career.

Al is a Joke and Steven A Smith, T.S. and the many many guys who criticize the Hawks for putting up with Al and his bull are right on the money.

Al is the 2012 version of Jon Koncak and Larry Drew is the 2012 version of Bob Weiss. I cant believe we have reinvented these clowns.

LMAO YALL

August 30th, 2012
4:46 am

*It only stands to reason that any team is not interested in trading for Al or making Al a significant piece of their team.

Al, Koncak and Larry Weiss Two (2) Clowns.

AG

August 30th, 2012
6:22 am

AJ – I saw Josh in Nevada at the Summer League games with Ferry. That did not appear a guy ready to be traded would be a meaningless game.

AG

August 30th, 2012
6:34 am

steven a smith Al Horford would “Not” crack the starting “5″ for Lakers, OKC, Dallas, Boston, Miami, Clippers, Memphis,,,get the point

So now Horford would be on the bench behind K. Perkins (OKC), Bass (Boston), J. Anthony (Miami), -D. Jordan(Clipps). I think the Lakers would trade Gasol for Horford …get the point

AG

August 30th, 2012
6:41 am

LMAO YALL = steven a smith

AG

August 30th, 2012
6:52 am

More love for the Hawks in the National media. Most of the love for Horford, Teague and Smith. Go to the 1:27 mark.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8314250

vava74

August 30th, 2012
7:48 am

AG,

Is stephen a smith also our good friend and resident lunatic T-s? I don’t think it is.

Perhaps some of the regulars can clarify this seminal doubt :-D

WHEN ARE THEY MOVING ?????

August 30th, 2012
8:05 am

WHY IS THIS HAPLESS JOKE TEAM STILL HERE ??? THEY NEED TO BE IN SEATTLE,
OR EVEN BILLINGS WOULD BE GREAT, JUST OUT OF ATLANTA ONCE AND FOR ALL !!!!

SCREW THE hawks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

O'Brien

August 30th, 2012
8:29 am

Grandad,

I really like Josh;
but folks around here seem to have forgotten about those nights
when Josh is a complete detriment towards winning basketball.
.

But G’dad, he was only a detriment because he was trying to make something happen….because he wants to win so badly, and that makes it ok :twisted:

To be fair to Josh though, he does make more winning plays than those detrimental plays (imo). And if he ever puts it all together consistently, he would be an all-star for sure.

O'Brien

August 30th, 2012
8:31 am

Ra’mon,

AJ, there’s no way you offer Josh the absolute max. He’s not that type of player. However, he is worth a 5 year $80 million contract. .

You may not offer it, but I think Josh will be expecting a max offer. And who knows what his reaction will be if he doesn’t get it.

Josh is a number 2 option on a championship caliber team, IMO. Al is a number 4 option on a championship caliber team, IMO..

Since Al came to the Hawks, he has been nothing more than a #3 or #4 option, behind JJ, Josh and Jamal. But even as a #4 option, Al still managed to put up 15 and 10 2 seasons ago.

We saw Josh assume the role of #1 option last year, and he excelled. But let’s see what he does this season with no JJ on board. And let’s see what Al does since he has a chance to actually be a #2 or #3 option on game nights.

You may be right. But I think Ferry will use this season as an evaluation so he can see for himself what’s the best way to move forward. With either, neither, or both.

MsDee

August 30th, 2012
9:24 am

WTG KenS

Now THATS how u stick up for your team, WITH FACTS TO BACK IT UP!! Like I saud b4, folks on here will be sleeping on Horford..Heck, I will say it now, AL HORFORD WILL BE OUR 2ND BEST PLAYER ON THE TEAM!!

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
9:27 am

Well, I’ve said for at least 2-3 years now that as long as Joe, Josh and Al were the best players on the team, the ceiling is the 2nd round. And I’ve also said that in order to get someone better than those 3, you’d need to trade at least one of them. Joe is gone for stale bags of chips… which could potentially net a player better than the 3 amigos. Butif I were ferry, i would plant o bring in 2 players better than those 3 next summer. Some how, some way.

AG, yes, all of the “Josh wants out stuff” was reported BEFORE the Ferry hire and Joe trade. Since the Hawks acquired all of these stale bags of chips, Josh has backed away from wanting out. I guess he is less concerned about losing in the first round with this current roster composition. Since all he cares about is post-seaon victories.

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
9:58 am

Going back to my original theory that the “Boss Al” issue is more related to LD than it is to Al… the year that LD took over the reigns of the team, both Al AND Josh saw their FTAs go down AND their offensive rebounding average decrease from the last season with Woody in charge. Why would their FTAs go down? Because they were shooting fewer shots in the paint… both of them. But here’s the thing, while Al took more jumpers, his FG% actually went up slightly. Smith’s went down by almost 30 percentage points. LD decided to stop crashing the boards (one of the reasons the Woody teams were very efficient on offense was because they were among the better offensive rebounding teams) to support better transition defense. Al’s defensive rebounding stayed flat (year-over-year) while Josh’s improved. Combined, their total rebounding averages stayed relatively flat.

If LD decides (as Ferry has suggested) to run the offense more through the PGs (a novel concept) Josh’s assists numbers will likely decrease. Should we take shots at Josh because he isn’t producing so many assists or should we consider that his boss has asked him to play the game differently?

I think the whole assertion that Horford has gone soft is mostly due to Al being a guy who executes his head coach’s strategy. If you want Al to play differently, then you should point your finger to the head coach.

Ken Strickland

August 30th, 2012
10:03 am

AG-No matter how many different names this/these moron(s) uses, the same ignorance, stupidity, approach, delusional thoughts, and negative minded comments on the same subject remains constant. The truely sad thing is, he/she/it/they are too stupid to realize that fact. YOU CAN LEAD AN ANAL MINDED MORON TO WATER, BUT YOU CAN’T MAKE HIM THINK.

Buddy Grizzard

August 30th, 2012
10:25 am

“If I were ferry, i would plant o bring in 2 players better than those 3 next summer.”

Josh Smith and Al Horford will both be All-Stars this year. They are both in the top 30 in the league. Please tell me your strategy for how we’re going to bring in two players in the top 20.

AG

August 30th, 2012
10:28 am

I really would like to see a lot more from our marketing department. Joe throws out a pitch at a Yankee game, we barely have seen photo’s of Lou, Harris or Jenkins in a Hawk uniform. It was very sad that LJ’s face was on the Hawk website promoting a preseason game facing Josh.

Then our AJC editors print an blog on a one- season former bench player long after he was traded (it is okay to still give MV7 ink because he was once the star of the city). Info on Petro, Jordan, Scott or even ZaZa still remains a mystery.

The PR/Marketing Dept is responsible for keeping people interested in the Hawks year round and MC desk should be flooded with press releases. Although I have never been over MC’s house or office – at the rate info is being released it is a good idea MC is scratching for stories (Joe Johnson’s house for sale… really???)

Look at the Falcons – a jingle or even the new slogan “satisfied” has been out for a while. The “Rise Up” was very successful. The Braves are really focusing on the retirement of Chipper. What are the Hawks doing?

Our starting center played for an Olympic team (that did not qualify) – averaged 18 ppg and 10 rbs and is coming off a major injury – but NO ink? On of the favorite Hawks (Jeff Teague) gets one article and Lou Williams get one as well.

Ken Strickland

August 30th, 2012
10:51 am

Here are some additional stats to support what was said, and what I’ve said as well, about Horford’s return replacing the bulk of JJs production. I used their 2010 production since Horford missed most of the 2011 season. JJ(Horford)

MINS 35.5(35.1)
PPG 18.2(15.3)
RPG 4.0(9.3)
APG 4.7(3.5)
SPG .65(.77)
BPG .10(1.04)
TOPG 2.0(1.5)
FGA 16.1(12)
FG% 44.3(55.7)

As you can see, Horford’s return to the starting lineup definitely replaces most of JJs OFF and DEF production, but in different ways. Horford gives us superior rebounding, which is something we sorely need more than JJs points. He also gives us better interior OFF and DEF, and like JJ, he’s a very good passer. He also replaces JJs DEF, but in a different way.

Their scoring difference is due to JJ taking and making more 2pt and 3pt attempts. And even with the significant disparity in shot attempts, there was only a 2.9PPG difference. That’s the equivelant of averaging1 made 3pt FG per gm, which JJ did. With Horford surely getting some of JJs shot attempts, his above average FG% should allow him to equal or exceed JJs pt production.

With the very high likelihood of there being more ball and player movement with JJ gone, and with us playing an uptemp fast breaking style, Horford’s assists should also increase. With his advantage over JJ in rebounding, steals, and blocks, he will contribute just as much defensively, if not more. Watch and see, in Teague, Josh and AL, we’re going to have 3 All Star candidates this yr.

As far as JJs assists, 3pt shooting and ball handling is concerned, we’ve added 3 players(Korver, Morrow, Jenkins)that shoot a higher 3pt FG%, and 2 players(Harris, LWilliams) to replace his assists and ball handling. The return of Horford and the aquisition of LWilliams, DHarris, and JJenkins will make this yrs team better than last yrs team.

We’ll lose some perimeter DEF with JJ gone, but we’ll more than make that up with the much better interior DEF and rebounding we’ll get with the return of Horford.

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
10:52 am

Buddy, if you Ferry isn’t trying to improve the top tier of the roster, what was the Joe trade made for? Improving the bottom won’t do anything to advance the team’s progress. And I think you are fooling yourself if you believe that a team that will likely be in the 6-9 slot by the ASG will get 2 All-Stars. The ONLY way that happens is if the fans vote one of them in, and we know that isn’t happening.

Ken Strickland

August 30th, 2012
11:00 am

This yrs training camp and preseason will be very interesting and exciting in deed. Which Bigs, out of Benson, Williams, Scott, and Petro, will make the cut. Which guards, out of Stephenson, Jenkins, and Morrow, will either make the cut or get traded for a SF before the season starts, assuming we make a trade. If we don’t trade for a starting SF, who will get the nod out of the players we have?

Ken Strickland

August 30th, 2012
11:12 am

ASTRO JOE-Didn’t the fans vote JJ to the All Star gm at least a few of his 6 times? Don’t you think it’s possible they can do it again for a deserving Hawk player? I certainly do.

This is going to be a very interesting training camp, preseason, regular season and playoffs for the Hawks. Which of our bigs will make the cut, out of Petro, JWilliams, Scott, and Benson, if he’s invited? Which of our guards will make the cut, out of Stevenson, Morrow, Anderson, Jenkins, or which one(s) will get traded?

Where's the Logic

August 30th, 2012
11:13 am

Enter your comments here

Rod from College Park

August 30th, 2012
11:14 am

“When Josh made that stupid pass in Game 5, I watched Al chase down Rondo to stop a game-winnnng shot. I watched him block 3 shots and put up close to 20/10 while not fully recovered from his injury. I’m not ready to trade him because his production is the same but he is getting it done in the context of his boss’ design… or because he doesn’t ask to be traded because he doesn’t like losing.”

I guess you missed Al turn the ball over 6 or 7 times that game and miss a clutch free throw that would have tied the game in the last couple of seconds. He is supposedly such a great mid range shooter, and can’t knock down a free throw to keep our season alive?

NBA REWIND

August 30th, 2012
11:18 am

Ra’mon

August 29th, 2012
2:58 pm

“KenS, Your list for reasons of keeping Al over Josh is full of so many things not backed up by actual stats.

1-is just as good at rebounding, — Josh is actually a better rebounder than Al, but Josh has always be responsible for getting back on defense to hinder any fast break opportunities. So Al always have gotten more OPPORTUNITIES on the offensive boards.
2-can play OC and PF equally as effectively, – This is a false statement. I did the calculations (you can do them yourself if you like). In all of the games (not even including the playoffs) that Al played PF in 2010-2011 (season before he was injured), Al averaged a whopping 12 PPG and 7.6 RPG. This is at his ‘natural position’ that you claim. That sounds like all star numbers doesn’t it? And in the playoffs where Al started exclusively at the PF position – Al averaged 11.3 PPG and 9.6 RPG while shooting 42% from the field.

3-is a much more efficient and effective scorer, – You can not be considered an effective scorer if you can not create your own shot. And if when you’re at PF or C, you can’t do any better than averaging 12 ppg, that is not a ‘SCORER’. I’ve never known of an effective scorer who averaged 12 ppg.

4-is a much better option as a stretch 4, – A stretch 4? How are you a stretch 4 and only shoots 42% from the field in the playoffs at the 4 position? What are you stretching there? Also who was the last stretch 4 to win a title? (Dirk isn’t a stretch 4, he is a scorer that’s different). You don’t pay a stretch 4 $12 million a season.

5-is just as effective as a passer since he generates fewer turnovers- How is he an effective passer when he can’t facilitate for himself or others. There are assists that come in the frame of the offense. And assists that come making a play. Aside from the one regular season Chicago game, Al doesn’t make plays. Al points come off of offense created by others.

6-is far more mature and far less tempermental – Have you ever had a conversation with Al or Josh? LD stated Josh was the first out of ALL of the players including Bibby, who’s basketball iq is never questioned, to learn the playbook. And then on top of that, on the off season after getting the closest to the ECF this franchise has ever been, Al reports to camp OUT OF BASKETBALL SHAPE. How is that mature? When Josh gained weight, it wasn’t because he wasn’t working out, it was so he could defend more in the post. Al just showed up not in premium shape, opposed to Josh, Joe, and Teague.

7-doesn’t lose focus and take plays off while arguing with the refs, – Name an all star in the league who really cares, and never loses focus for a play or two while talking with referee? Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant, Dirk, Melo, Rose, KG, Pierce, and Duncan have all been seen taking a play to talk to a ref, and it results in the opposition scores. Guess you don’t want those guys either.

8-is far more physical and capable of defending and scoring over bigger and taller players- This one is funny. So why couldn’t he score over Taj Gibson, Boozer, or Brandon Bass? And why was he shut down after Amare called Al out? Yet, Chicago puts their best defender in Noah on Josh, and Josh still go for career numbers in a series? Boston puts KG on Josh, and Josh still have great numbers while playing on one knee after being hurt.
,
9-has been recognized by coaches, players and writers, and rewarded for his attributes, while Josh has been all but ignored because of his continued immaturity despite having All Star caliber talent and production. – Al was recognized because of injuries, and the fact that he plays a different position. A 12 pts, 9 reb center in the league, may get you into the all star game. However a 12 pt, 9 reb FORWARD won’t get you into any all star game. THAT is why Al made all star game.

10-has led the Hawks to the playoffs every yr since his arrival, when Josh and JJ couldn’t sniff the playoffs before his arrival. – Wrong. Al did not LEAD the Hawks into the playoffs. Was Al more effective than Sheldon Williams, of course. But the Hawks made the playoffs the first year more because of Mike Bibby’s presence. The Hawks were in the 9-10th seed before the all star break when Bibby was required. There’s a difference between LEADING and being an able body on a good team. IF he lead the team to the playoffs, how did they still manage to get a four seed without him playing majority of the season? I assure you, Chicago will not get the number 1 seed without Rose this season.

Al is a really good ROLE player. But making him out to be some sort of franchise savior is just wrong. I’ve never seen a player average 12 ppg for 5 seasons, and be considered so wonderful. Al is a pretty good center. I really like Al at the center position. However, Al is an average power forward. And he’s not a true difference maker.”

Did the Fans vote him in

August 30th, 2012
11:20 am

Enter your comments here

vava74

August 30th, 2012
11:21 am

OB:

“Since Al came to the Hawks, he has been nothing more than a #3 or #4 option, behind JJ, Josh and Jamal. But even as a #4 option, Al still managed to put up 15 and 10 2 seasons ago.”

That is because Horford was wide open to use his SLOW but effective set shot from the elbow and the baseline.

Without the double teams on JJ, Jamal or Josh, Al will have SUBSTANTIALLY less time and space to hit those shots.

In 2010/11 the scouting was WAY BEHIND on Horford’s midrange game (which he still did not have at that level in the 2009/10 season).

I had league pass for that season and opposing color commentators were ALL saying at the beginning of the games that their teams could live with Horford shooting from there (as they continue to say – correctly I must point out – about Josh).

By the time the playoffs came and Horford played PF and had opponents quicker and more willing to close out, his FG% dropped dramatically.

Horford is a very good player, but his offense is still limited and, unless he has dramatically evolved, he can only be a #3 or #4 guy on the shots pecking order.

Slimjr

August 30th, 2012
11:24 am

“Horford is a very good player, but his offense is still limited and, unless he has dramatically evolved, he can only be a #3 or #4 guy on the shots pecking order.” vava74

He’s a one-trick pony…[1950's set shot]..

Rod from College Park

August 30th, 2012
11:25 am

The point most of you clowns don’t get with Horford is that he shoots a high percentage in the REGULAR season, and scores most of his points because of Josh and Joe, and because he plays center. Everything changes ins the postseason when teams account for him. He is not good at creating his own shot. He has no post game. He is basically a stand still jump shooter. He gets free because when he plays center, other centers don’t come out on the perimeter, and because teams double Joe and Josh which leaves him open. He also gets open alot off of high screen and rolls or screen and pops. He should be commended for improving his jump shot, but his defense and offensive abilities especially in the post are lacking. If we do play at a faster tempo this year, it helps him also because he is active on the glass and very mobile. I would be willing to bet that a high percentage of his points have been off of assist from Joe or Josh.

Rod from College Park

August 30th, 2012
11:27 am

Me and Vava thinking alike. The world must be about to end.

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
11:28 am

Strickland, nope, all of Joe’s All Star appearances came by way of the conference coaches. He started one game because Wade (I think) was injured a few days before the actual game… so he was named a starter. Joe never received more votes than Iverson or Wade. I’m guessing that the last Hawk voted into the All-Star game was maybe ‘Nique (I doubt Dikembe got love in front of Ewing, Mourning or Shaq). It would take long-term injuries to guys like Lebron, Carmelo, Pierce, KG, Bosh and Stoudemire for Josh to be selected by fans. It isn’t about who’s better, it’s about who has the biggest brand (and team fan base). Knicks, Celtics and Heat will likely be on national TV a little bit more than the hawks (he added sarcastically).

Rod, yeah, I saw those flaws from Al in that single road game in Boston. And that was Game 6 in Boston, not Game 5 in Atlanta. Game 6 was when Josh decided to hoist a bad jumper in the last few seconds (trying to make the winning play instead of making the winning pass). In the last two playoff games against the Celtics, Josh got a technical foul will sitting at the scorer’s table, made the awful pass that Rondo stole (both Game 5 in Atlanta) and then capped the finale with the awful decision to shoot a jumper in the waning moments in Game 6 in Boston.

Rod from College Park

August 30th, 2012
11:33 am

“I had league pass for that season and opposing color commentators were ALL saying at the beginning of the games that their teams could live with Horford shooting from there (as they continue to say – correctly I must point out – about Josh).”

Correct. He must evolve his game. Teams will start playing him for the jumper, as Chicago and Orlando did in the playoffs. He needs to be able to fake put the ball of the floor, and get to the rim. Hard for me to see him being able to do that because he is not a fluid basketball player. He is very robotic. That is why his assist numbers are good because he passes that rock like a hot potato, if the jump shot is not there.

Just Watchin

August 30th, 2012
11:35 am

Why the F don’t we just bring back T-Mac on a one year deal and call it a day? The fact that DF hasnt done this yet makes me think he has a couple trade scenarios planned for September.

Smith and Horford will both have career years. Teague I’m not fully convinced about yet. I like the Devin Harris pickup just in case. Lou Will is a baller. Anthony Morrow should be good trade bait, and we need to get Jenkins as much playing time as possible. Who else is hoping DeShawn Stevenson shows some early promise so we can ship his ass out and get something worthwhile in return? Nobody has yet mentioned that Al would be a good fit at the 3. Was I the only one who saw him shut down Rondo on that end-game possession in the playoffs? Plus Al has one of the best mid-range jumpers in all of basketball. He showed he has quick feet, he’s about the same height/size as Marvin was, AND all the people infatuated with Josh(me included) won’t have to bitch about how Josh is not a 3 and is much better suited for the 4. We could then start Zaza, play Ivan backup minutes at Center, and maybe acquire someone not named Petro to assist there as well. I think a rotation of Al, Mike Scott and Korver would be a playable rotation at the 3 both offensively and defensively.

Also, if I have to read the phrase “ANAL MINDED MORON” one more time I think I might shoot myself in the face. Just sayin…

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
11:37 am

Rod and the point that you “playoffs only matter” goofs fail to comprehend is that if the team doesn’t have a superlative record in the regular season, they won’t advance deep into the playoffs. Typically, the teams that make it to the conference finals are among the top 3 seeded teams. Yes, there are exceptions (often due to a key injury with one of the top seeded teams, like the Bulls and Rose last season or Spurs and Ginobli two years ago). You won’t find many 6 or 7 seeded teams making deep playoff runs. You can’t isolate on the playoffs as if seeding doesn’t matter… and seeding is based on regular season performance. Folk who say “Hawks won’t miss Joe in the playoffs” act like the current roster will perform well against one of the top 3 seeded teams (assuming Hawks are no better than a 6 seed).

I want players better than Horford on the team. I’d trade Horford to make that happen. But I’m not trading Horford just because he (like 99% of all other players) struggles in the playoffs against the top defensive teams.

Rod from College Park

August 30th, 2012
11:39 am

“Rod, yeah, I saw those flaws from Al in that single road game in Boston. And that was Game 6 in Boston, not Game 5 in Atlanta. Game 6 was when Josh decided to hoist a bad jumper in the last few seconds (trying to make the winning play instead of making the winning pass). In the last two playoff games against the Celtics, Josh got a technical foul will sitting at the scorer’s table, made the awful pass that Rondo stole (both Game 5 in Atlanta) and then capped the finale with the awful decision to shoot a jumper in the waning moments in Game 6 in Boston.”

That was a closeout game. That was THE game. He makes that freethrow, we go to overtime and win the game, none of the other stuff matters. I guess you also failed to see the many turnovers and bad passes and missed layups at the end of the game that our star player Joe Johnson had. Horford missed the free throw to send the game into overtime. No getting around that.

Just Joe

August 30th, 2012
11:39 am

AJ…My perception of Horford has nothing to do with the offensive end of the floor (FTA’s, shot selection, offensive rebounds, etc…), and everything to do with the defensive end. For some reason, we’ve seen LD try to protect Al from the more physical matchups. When is the last time that Horford matched up with Bynum or Howard (yet we’ve seen Ivan and Hilton Armstrong give it a try)? Again, it may all perception, but it even seems like LD has Josh guard the biggest man on the floor from time to time. If Al is my starting center, then he needs to be able to put in work against any center in the league (not shut them down, but share in the responsibility of trying to slow them down).

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
11:39 am

That is why his assist numbers are good because he passes that rock like a hot potato, if the jump shot is not there.

He sets up a teammate for a better shot when he doesn’t have one? Yeah… who would want that kind of player on their team?

Rod from College Park

August 30th, 2012
11:47 am

“Rod and the point that you “playoffs only matter” goofs fail to comprehend is that if the team doesn’t have a superlative record in the regular season, they won’t advance deep into the playoffs. Typically, the teams that make it to the conference finals are among the top 3 seeded teams.”

That is true, but your record should only matter for you to get into the playoffs, and help you secure the home court if you are a bad road team. Doc Rivers for the last couple of years has rested starters and sacrificed games in the regular season, to make sure his team was healthy for the playoffs. We had the home court and a better record than the Celtics, but still lost to them in the playoffs. Regular season records meant nothing then.

Slimjr

August 30th, 2012
11:49 am

Al does not have a handle that allows him to reset and acquire new realstate that is required to get your shot off if your 1st shot attempt is contested/defended..

He has no choice but to give it up and make the pass…

Buddy Grizzard

August 30th, 2012
11:49 am

“If you Ferry isn’t trying to improve the top tier of the roster, what was the Joe trade made for?”

Ok, so are you arguing that Josh and Al are not top 30 players? Or do you think we have a shot at obtaining someone off this list:

LeBron James
Dwight Howard
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Dwyane Wade
Derrick Rose
Carmel Anthony
Andrew Bynum
Russel Westbrook
Kevin Love
Blake Griffin
LaMarcus Aldridge
Dirk Nowitzki
Deron Williams
Tony Parker
Kyrie Irving
Kenneth Faried
Manu Ginobili
Al Jefferson

Buddy Grizzard

August 30th, 2012
11:55 am

“For some reason, we’ve seen LD try to protect Al from the more physical matchups.”

Yes, LD is obsessed with protecting Al from foul trouble, even though he has one of the lowest foul rates among power rotation players in the league. Part of that low foul rate is that LD has made Al afraid to play physical for fear of being yanked from games.

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
11:55 am

Rod, yes, the Celtics with a potential HOF head coach and 3 potential HOF players who together have been able to experience the trip to 2 NBA Finals. And even those Celtics teams learned that as one of the top seeds in the conference.

Seeding matters to teams without championship experience.

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
11:56 am

Buddy, Kenneth Faried?

I’ll get back to you.

Rod from College Park

August 30th, 2012
11:59 am

He sets up a teammate for a better shot when he doesn’t have one? Yeah… who would want that kind of player on their team?

So I guess you want Marvin back, because he does the same thing very well. LOL. I guy that make 12 million a year should be able to create his own shots, or be stellar defense. Al is neither. It’s not like he’s Rondo. LOL

Slimjr

August 30th, 2012
11:59 am

28-47 against the winners means as Ra’mon brilliantly put it ALLStar Al- ALL NBA game makes no difference..

Rod from College Park

August 30th, 2012
12:05 pm

“Seeding matters to teams without championship experience.”

Seeding only matters in terms of who you get matched up with. Some teams match up better against other teams. Seeding has nothing to do with that. The cream usually will rise to the top, no matter what the seeding is.

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
12:06 pm

Just Joe, thanks, you proved my point precisely. You are holding Horford accountable for LD’s strategy.

You are clearly reflecting on the Magic series from 2011. LD used what I have called the “disposable big man” ploy to defend the handful of bigger low post threats. Instead of exposing Horford to the foul trouble that comes when guarding those players, he sent out guys who are of very little value on the offensive end, guys like Etan, Hilton, Collins and Damp. That is LD’s decision, likely because Horford is too valuable on the offensive end (at worse making those annoying assists to teammates) to lose to foul trouble. In the last playoff series, you may recall that both Zaza AND Al missed time (Zaza the entire series), which placed undue burden on Josh. You will have to ask LD why Ivan wasn’t deployed to help out on KG, who clearly had his way in that series.

But again, LD made the decision not to ask Horford to bang Howard during that series. And considering it was the only time in the recent playoff era where the Hawks defeated a higher seeded team in the post-season, I can’t too much complain with LD’s use of the disposable big men.

Oh and my guess, you will see Jason collins spend a fair amount of time defending Bynum this season… so KG doesn’t have to try and hold his ground against the bulkier and skilled low-post threat.

Just Joe

August 30th, 2012
12:16 pm

AJ…I’ll be willing to bet that Doc doesn’t start Collins against Bynum or Howard. KG will be more than willing to swap some elbows when needed.

LD’s assessment of Horford is that he must be protected. We need Al to convince LD that he can handle the job, if he actually can.

Rod from College Park

August 30th, 2012
12:32 pm

Ah, the old LD’s strategy calls for that argument. You sure don’t make those provisions for other players. LD offenense call for Josh to be on the perimeter and shoot jump shots if he is open. LD also stated when Jamal was her that Jamal’s role was to come in the game and score. I don’t see you defending eith of those guys. LOL

MsDee

August 30th, 2012
12:36 pm

Rod from College Park

U said, “He gets free because when he plays center, other centers don’t come out on the perimeter, and because teams double Joe and Josh which leaves him open. He also gets open alot off of high screen and rolls or screen and pops. He should be commended for improving his jump shot, but his defense and offensive abilities especially in the post are lacking. If we do play at a faster tempo this year, it helps him also because he is active on the glass and very mobile. I would be willing to bet that a high percentage of his points have been off of assist from Joe or Josh.”

WHERE IS THE PROBLEM????? Horford suppose to do WHAT if, “He gets free because when he plays center, other centers don’t come out on the perimeter, and because teams double Joe and Josh which leaves him open.” ?????????? Problem exactly??

“He should be commended for improving his jump shot, but his defense and offensive abilities especially in the post are lacking.” And this statement is based on last season?? Of course NOT, he was injuried ALL season..and if u are talking about 2010-2011 season, well the wonderful KenS gave u the stats comparison on that season, so again I ask, WHERE IS THE PROBLEM??

“If we do play at a faster tempo this year, it helps him also because he is active on the glass and very mobile. I would be willing to bet that a high percentage of his points have been off of assist from Joe or Josh.”

WHERE IS THE PROBLEM??? If anything, u just gave him a very good compliment. He IS very active on the glass and very mobile..HE IS A FINISHER W/ AUTHORITY!!

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
12:54 pm

Rod, I just said earlier today that Josh’s increase in jump shots is related to LD’s offensive schemes. I also said just today that his decreasein FTAs is related to LD’s offensive scheme. And I am not fixated on any former Hawk who last played for the team in May, 2011. You won’t find me discussing Josh Powell, either.

Buddy Grizzard

August 30th, 2012
1:09 pm

“Buddy, Kenneth Faried?

I’ll get back to you.”

Oh I agree, there are already several players on that list I wouldn’t trade Josh OR Al for. So you agree with me that Josh and Al are both top 30 players?

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
1:20 pm

Buddy, they are in the ball park. There are probably 24 All-Stars across the two conferences, right? So yeah, they are clearly in the 20-40 discussion.

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
1:34 pm

Just Joe, I understand the sentiment. I just struggle with the pragmatic discussion Horford would have with LD. “Coach, I promise that I can defend Bynum (using him since he is the greatest low post threat in our conference) without getting into foul trouble. I can keep him from getting deep position in the paint by pushing him from behind (without picking up a foul) or I can front him and deny the high entry pass 9despite his considerable length).

Like I said, I understand the sentiment. Kind of like Lebron guarding Durant in The Finals. But in that case, neither could stop the other and Durant found himself on the bench in foul trouble during several games (in the first half as I recall). I just think that more realisticaly, there are bad match-ups for most players but fortunately, Horford seems to play exceptionally well against all but maybe 3-4 guys in the league. If Stoudemire or Blake or Z-Bo or Al Jefferson or Hibbert or Noah or several others bigs who make as much or more than $12M/year were asked to defend Bynum in a playoff series, I think those guys would also struggle.

O'Brien

August 30th, 2012
1:38 pm

Vava,

Without the double teams on JJ, Jamal or Josh, Al will have SUBSTANTIALLY less time and space to hit those shots..

I agree. However, isn’t it possible that Al will improve his game to help counter the fact that he will be crowded on his jumpers. Plus there is also the possibility of better coaching. After all, didn’t we just add Bob Weiss :smile:

Buddy,

As a free agent next offseason, Bynum may decide to sign elsewhere if he doesn’t get along with Doug Collins. CP3 will be a free agent, along with Dwight Howard, Al Jefferson, Ginobli, (and James Harden).

Will we get any of these players? I don’t know, but it’s possible.

Najeh Davenpoop

August 30th, 2012
1:40 pm

Wow, I’m gone for a few days and they redesign the website and someone already registered my name. I guess I need a new screen name whenever they start requiring logins to comment.

I would say something about the Hawks but this is that time of year when we are churning the butter that we have already churned.

Najeh Davenpoop

August 30th, 2012
1:45 pm

I think the Hawks would have to be above .500 at the All Star break to have two All Stars, and it’s debatable whether or not that will happen.

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
1:50 pm

One more thing that a head coach does when they have a player capable of making 55-60% of his mid-range shots… they run plays for that player to get open looks from the mid-range. I have no idea if LD will do that, but if I had a top 5 mid-range shooter on a team full of less efficient scorers, I think it might be an idea with pursuing. If San Antonio can run plays to get Bonner an open look, than surely…

Ken Strickland

August 30th, 2012
1:52 pm

MSDEE-These clowns aren’t interested in FACTS. Their only association with anything FACT related, unless it happens to supports their paradigm, which seldom hapens, is their biased OPINIONS, ASSUMPTIONS, and delusional and/or unsubstantiated BELIEFS.

They refuse to acknowledge he’s earned 2 All star and 1 All NBA selection in his 1st 4yrs. Scrubbs don’t achieve that kind of recognition, expecially in such a short career, but only an absolute idiot would think otherwise. They flat out refuse to accept that JSmith has been in the league almost twice as long and never came close to achieving such distinctions.

He’s never been voted or selected by the coaches, players or writers for any award. Winning a slam dunk contest is his greatest individual achievement. Does that mean he hasn’t been deserving, no. It just means people in the NBA recognize Horford’s maturity and intangibles.

The truth is, they are both exceptional athletes with room to improve, and both players play bigger than their height and size. Both been very valuable players for the Hawks over the last 4yrs. Only an absolute DUMBA$$ would refuse to acknowledge their contributions to the success of the team. This ANAL MINDED APPROACH of constantly pitting one against the other is downright stupid, since they’re both teammates that work extremely well together.

I appreciate and love watching both players, and feel the Hawks are very fortunate to have both very talented players. I also hope we resign Josh and keep Horford. If we can sign a quality DEF minded OC next yr, we could see a frontline of JSmith @SF, FA @OC, and Horford @PF. With JTeague @PG and an above average shooter like JJenkins @SG, we could have a championship caliber starting lineup.

If a one trick pony like 6′ 10″ KDurant, who’s not as physical, athletic or versatile as Josh, and definitely doesn’t have his postup ability, can successfully play SF, so can he.

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2012
1:57 pm

And consider his, Horford did his damage in the 2010-11 season without a slashing PG like Teague. Horford hasn’t played that many games (regular season at least) with Teague as his PG. Assuming Teague is still able to beat his man off the dribble and get into the lane, won’t it be fun to watch him pass to an open Horford as opposed to Zaza? If Al scored 15 with Bibby/Hinrich NOT penetrating (and Joe and Jamal averaging ~30 FGAs between them), what might he do in the coming season?

Ken Strickland

August 30th, 2012
2:01 pm

After my last post, I’m going to let the HORFORD HATERS enjoy their narrow minded hate fest and concentrate on worthwhile Hawk related discussions. When all is said nd done, I’m a diehard Atlanta Hawks fan, and that includes all of our players, period. The rest of you HATERS can continue being as delusional and negative minded as you want.

Najeh Davenpoop

August 30th, 2012
2:04 pm

“If a one trick pony like 6′ 10″ KDurant, who’s not as physical, athletic or versatile as Josh”

http://bit.ly/SYtASQ

vava74

August 30th, 2012
2:04 pm

Ken,

I wish we had a one trick pony who could drop 30 consistently day in, day out, regardless of who is guarding him…

Man… Ken, you are losing it. LOSING IT!!!

It’s OK to defend Horford, what is not OK is to lose time battling fools who do not criticize with any logic (T-S, S A Smith, Slim-the-Knicks-Fan-Jr, …). I don’t know why you get so amped up discussing with those guys. It’s pointless and driving you further and further deep into a contentious mode that makes you post nonsense.

To argue that Josh can play SF because “Durant can” and calling at the same time Durant a one trick pony… it’s… oh forget it…

Ken Strickland

August 30th, 2012
2:06 pm

ASTRO JOE- A truely excellent analysis and deduction, bravo. I believe we’ll be a playoff team with our current roster. But how high we finish in the playoff hunt, and how successful we are in the playoffs, will depend on how successfully, or if, we address the SF position.

Ken Strickland

August 30th, 2012
2:15 pm

VALVA74-You obviously missed my point. First, I wasn’t even referring to Horford, I was referring to Josh. Secondly, my comment about Durant being a one trick pony wasn’t a dig at him. The truth is, he is a one trick pony, he just happens to do that one trick extremely well.

And I wasn’t comparing him to Josh. I was just saying that if he can be as effective as he’s been playing SF despite his limitations, Josh can be just as effective at playing the position despite his limitations, just in a different way.

prison mike

August 30th, 2012
2:16 pm

Atkinson will be head coach soon. I just bout crowned his ass when the rumors of his hiring a few weeks back.

His ability to help develop guys like Lin is a prerequisite in today’s NBA. Don’t fret, Drew is will still get paychecks as top assistant.

Just Watchin

August 30th, 2012
2:20 pm

Horford at SF, Josh at PF, Zaza at C. Problem solved. Horford can lock down even the best pentrating guards (reference his 1on1 domination of Rondo last postseason,) and has the midrange jumper that you want out of your SF(and that Josh lacks.)

O'Brien

August 30th, 2012
2:34 pm

Ken,

Durant is still not a good example (imo).

1) Durant would struggle trying to guard PFs in the paint, while except for a few PF, Josh does an above average job when it comes to guarding the majority of other PF’s in the league.

2) Josh is a very good help/weakside defender, and playing PF allows him to roam a little bit on defense, and help protect the rim, where he gets a lot of his blocks. Josh at SF would be on the perimeter (and away from the paint) on defense. And Josh’s defense at PF is better than Horford’s defense at PF (imo).

3) On offense, Durant has a fluid jumper, and can score from anywhere. Josh’s jumper is inconsistent, and on offense, he is better off in the post, which is where you want your PF.

4) Josh is a better PF than Al (imo).

Ken Strickland

August 30th, 2012
3:23 pm

OBRIEN-the idea that we’d lose Josh’s shotblocking ability if he plays SF isn’t supported by any facts. In fact, he was our starting SF until MWilliams assume the starting SF position in his 2nd NBA season. And it might also surprise you to know that Josh’s blocks per gm average for those seasons he was our starting SF were much higher than they’ve been since moving to PF.

05-06 2.6BPG
06-07 2.9BPG
07-08 2.8BPG

Ken Strickland

August 30th, 2012
3:30 pm

OBRIEN-To say Josh is a better PF than Horford can’t be proven, because it all depends on what is needed from the PF position. Horford’s above average midrange shooting ability would certainly make him a better PF option than Josh if playing next to a dominant inside OC like DHoward or ABynum.

And what difference doesn’t it make if Josh is launching jumpers from the SF or PF position? With the size and height advantage he’d have over most SFs, he just might be encouraged to spend more time in the paint posting up smaller and weaker defenders, rather than launching ill advised jumpers.

terrell

August 30th, 2012
3:43 pm

I cringe everytime i think about seeing LD and Bob Weiss anywhere near my favorite team. This is the NBA, not a church convention. They look more like Deacons than coaches. I Hope Weiss has all of his Sunday suits ready. Im sure LD does. smmfgdh

MsDee

August 30th, 2012
3:46 pm

Former Charlotte Bobcats small forward, Derrick Brown, is set to workout with the San Antonio Spurs next week and the Atlanta Hawks the following week, according to his agent Calvin Andrews of BDA Sports Management. CSNNW.com

Rod from College Park

August 30th, 2012
3:56 pm

“I cringe everytime i think about seeing LD and Bob Weiss anywhere near my favorite team. This is the NBA, not a church convention. They look more like Deacons than coaches.”

Totally agree. Bob Weiss. LOL. That guy should never be able to step foot in a Hawks arena again, let alone be some sort of coach.

Rod from College Park

August 30th, 2012
4:11 pm

“And I am not fixated on any former Hawk who last played for the team in May, 2011. You won’t find me discussing Josh Powell, either.”

I matters not who you want to talk about. You can’t have it both ways. Based on your agrgument LD should be blamed for everything, and the players should shoulder no blame.

Rod from College Park

August 30th, 2012
4:13 pm

“WHERE IS THE PROBLEM??? If anything, u just gave him a very good compliment. He IS very active on the glass and very mobile..HE IS A FINISHER W/ AUTHORITY!!”

There is not problem. It is what it is. He is a solid player. But at 12 mil per season, he needs to step his game up offensively.

Rusty

August 30th, 2012
4:43 pm

Let’s face it LD is a very poor nba coach,get real

Just Joe

August 30th, 2012
4:57 pm

Every team that plays against Howard & Bynum has 2 to 3 guys ready to throw at them. Al Horford is never one of those guys for the Hawks.

Personal preference, but I hate having two starting lineups in basketball (a regular & a big) about as much as I hated when Bobby Cox would platoon outfielders.

I don’t have a center good enough to start against every team, so I’ll start this guy against 75% of the centers in the league & this other guy against the other 25%.

I don’t have a guy good enough to play every day in the outfield, so I’ll play this guy against righties & this other guy against lefties.

Both philosophies just bug me.

Grandad

August 30th, 2012
5:11 pm

Slimjr

Al does not possess a 1950`s set shot.
I`ve seen those close up and personal.
*note – [they were highly accurate, however]

Al employs a catch & shoot jumper;
without a great deal of lift.
*note – [highly accurate] … what`s the problem ?

Larry Bird`s jumper was not a textbook jumper [either].
Nor did he generate a great deal of lift on his jumper.
*note – [highly effective, I might add]
____________________________________________

Folks:
I`ve said this, and I`ve said this and I`ve said this !
Players are who they are.
Players are not a position.
Players are not a made up number:
pos [3] or [4] / option # 1, 2, or 3.
Basketball players are basketball players.
____________________________________________

Plus
Al and Josh seem to like one another.
They have chemistry on the court.
Their games compliment one another.

What gives with the animosity ?
____________________________________________

Hertofore:
The dumbest thing I`ve heard stated on this blog [lately]
-is-
Al rebounds better than Josh because Josh has to hang back
to play defense … therefore … yickity yaka yaka cracka lacka lacka.
-or-
something to that effect

” Be what you is, `cause if you be what you ain`t, you ain`t what you is ”
-Coach Don Meyer-
from:
” Things I Wish I Had Been Taught ” …[speech]

Grandad

August 30th, 2012
5:20 pm

* The Don Meyer quote was `sposed to be placed after the
proceding remarks: [in my 5:11 post]
____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____

Folks:
I`ve said this, and I`ve said this and I`ve said this !
Players are who they are.
Players are not a position.
Players are not a made up number:
pos [3] or [4] / option # 1, 2, or 3.
Basketball players are basketball players.

” Be what you is, `cause if you be what you ain`t, you ain`t what you is ”
-Coach Don Meyer-
from:
” Things I Wish I Had Been Taught ” …[speech]
____________________________________________

-note-
The preceding quote and remarks
should have been placed together in my [5:11 pm post] !

Sorry I screwed that one up !

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

August 30th, 2012
5:23 pm

When is training camp?

Casey

August 30th, 2012
6:36 pm

Great! The coach with the worst record in franchise history! What is he going to advise the Hawks on? How to lose 70 games?

Slimjr

August 30th, 2012
7:35 pm

Let the games begin…

I hope the Hawks smoke Vava’s Crooklyn Nets!

Let the godfather games begin…

Ken Strickland

August 30th, 2012
7:37 pm

We know Ferry had a sit down talk with Josh shortly after becoming our GM. And we also know that what he told Josh made him do a 180 on his demand to be traded. What we don’t know is what they talked about and what he told Josh about his plans for the future of the team.

Just suppose Ferry told him that he wants him to consider becoming the teams starting SF once again. You know Josh bristled at the idea of us switching to an uptempo fastbreaking style. You know Ferry had to tell Josh something very encourging about both he and the team to get him to make an immediate committment to return.

With Josh usually going up against smaller shorter defenders at SF, and Horford at PF usually going up against smaller and shorter players, both players should improve their overall production. Zaza gives us more size, height and physicality at OC. How many SF can out rebound Josh, and how many PF can out rebound Horford?

That frontline also give us 2 quality help defenders in Josh and Horford. Josh is one of the NBAs best help defenders, and Horford at PF would give us good help defense. Zaza would give us his usual physical man to man DEF in the middle. The more I think and talk about this frontline, the more I like the idea. The only drawback I see in starting Zaza is the lack of quality depth at OC.

Slimjr

August 30th, 2012
7:52 pm

Just Joe, I agree with you that he is being protected by Larry with the defensive match ups..Glad you pointed that observation out this morning on the blog..

Imagine if he had Ben Wallace athleticism. He would be very intimidating on defense?

Championship caliber stuff..BTW Ben was listed at only 6′7″.

MaxxHawk

August 30th, 2012
7:59 pm

The foolish Horford nut sniffers say Hey last year was Josh’s best year and the year before was Al’s best year so they are the same.. Thats like saying ken Strickland and Bobby Fisher both played chess and so they are the same.

Josh’s career Average is better than Al’s best year so we are talking apples and oranges. Al is an injury prone, defensive liability whose Offense is weak to.

Al Horford, Bob Weiss and Jon Koncak dead weight for the hawks. We got ride of Koncak.

So its true that Al was offered in trades 4 times then summer and none of the other teams took the offer. What does that tell you?

steven a smith

August 30th, 2012
8:00 pm

vava74

August 30th, 2012
2:04 pm

Vava74 and Grandad clearly know “Nothing” about Basketball! These guys are absolutely clueless when it comes to Talent evaluation and Team building. Please boys stick to checkers, pro wrestling, and reality TV.

Slimjr

August 30th, 2012
8:03 pm

“Every team that plays against Howard & Bynum has 2 to 3 guys ready to throw at them. Al Horford is never one of those guys for the Hawks.

Personal preference, but I hate having two starting lineups in basketball (a regular & a big) about as much as I hated when Bobby Cox would platoon outfielders.

I don’t have a center good enough to start against every team, so I’ll start this guy against 75% of the centers in the league & this other guy against the other 25%.

I don’t have a guy good enough to play every day in the outfield, so I’ll play this guy against righties & this other guy against lefties.

Both philosophies just bug me.” -Just Joe-

Maybe the NBA can expand the rosters to 20 men and then you can [adopt] the specialist mentality more readily as they do in baseball and football?

steven a smith

August 30th, 2012
8:05 pm

MaxxHawk

August 30th, 2012
7:59 pm

Ditto! MaxxHawk is Right Own in his assessment of Tito Horford Jr. If Al could “Defend”, i would say keep him! The fact that he is a “weak defender”i prefer him coming off the Bench.

So its true that Al was offered in trades 4 times then summer and none of the other teams took the offer. What does that tell you?

MaxxHawk

August 30th, 2012
8:11 pm

See I told you guys Ken Strickland smokes weed. Look at his sick very sick thinking. We have one of the top 5 power forwards in the NBA and ken want to move him out of his position for a Power forward who is rated 15-25. How illogical.

SEE WHAT WEED DID TO KEN? Now show your children some of Kens stupidity. It ,may hurt them now to read that s hit but they well never do drugs.

Most of the Al Horford Nut warming Cultist want to move Josh not because he is doing a bad Job, Oh no. there may be 3 maybe 4 guys in the entire NBA that can play the power forward on Josh’s level.

The want Josh to move because Al is a liability at center ( he would be at PF too, that why he is rated 15-25) and the serve their God Al so blindly they want to move him to Josh’s position to help Al. Not help the team.

LEAVE JOSH RIGHT WHERE HE IS AT. ITS THE 1 THING THE HAWKS HAVE GOT RIGHT.

If we find a taker for Al in trade then either he comes off the bench or we amnesty Al.

Zaza is the Starting center and Josh the power forward. Harris is the point guard That leaves 2 guard and 3 forward open. If Al wants a position led him try out for ether one of those.

steven a smith

August 30th, 2012
8:12 pm

Ken Strickland-Please leave “talent evaluation and basketball analysis”to experts such as myself and a few others who understand that we would be better off “Trading or Benching” AL “TITO” HORFORD JR. Please go back to your Pro-wrestling, Cheaters, Cops, and Jerry Springer type shows that you like to watch! Please leave the Big Boys alone Ken!!!

MaxxHawk

August 30th, 2012
8:13 pm

**We got rid of Koncak.

MaxxHawk

August 30th, 2012
8:16 pm

*They want Josh to move because Al is a liability at center ( he would be at PF too, that why he is rated 15-25) and they serve their God Al so blindly they want to move him to Josh’s position to help Al, not to help the hawks

steven a smith

August 30th, 2012
8:19 pm

MaxxHawk

August 30th, 2012
8:11 pm

I could not have said it better MaxxHawk. That was” Beautifully” worded. Too many ManCrushes out there for Al. I can’t see it!

Grandad

August 30th, 2012
8:20 pm

People if any of you think that I was doing wrong with Sandusky I will remind you. Those are your thoughts.

Sandusky is a friend, some one. Friends Hang out together and have similar interest.

What is important?
I was not charged with any crime. Please dont ask me to explain.

steven a smith

August 30th, 2012
8:23 pm

“Brittney Griner can protect the Rim and rebound the Basketball better than Al Horford at this point in her career.” Hey, not a bad idea. I think she also has a better post game as well.”

MaxxHawk

August 30th, 2012
8:30 pm

*Zaza is the Starting center and Josh the power forward. Harris is the point guard That leaves 2 guard and 3 forward open. If Al wants a position let him try out for ether one of those.

steven a smith Co-signing you at 8:12 pm.

I appreciate the way you take your messages right to the hornets nets. Right to the temple of the Al Horford Cult Phenomenon. Dont get it twisted, though. M.Cunningham is a cultist too. Its amazing that there are 4 legitimate stories about Al being offered in trade scenario’s in the last 2 1/2 months and not a word out of Cun & ham. Simply amazin.

We will never get above an average to good team with Al as a starter on our front line. Never. We are resigned to mediocrity. Perhaps why they are bring back Bob Weiss. Another clown like Al.

2 clowns, (bob and Al) or (Sautee and Ken) = 1 circus.

MaxxHawk

August 30th, 2012
8:32 pm

Grandad Keep that to yourself we are trying to make the hawks a better team. Thanks

Roger that!!

August 30th, 2012
8:33 pm

. Please go back to your Pro-wrestling, Cheaters, Cops, and Jerry Springer type shows that you like to watch! Please leave the Big Boys alone Ken!!!

Roger that!!

August 30th, 2012
8:35 pm

Most of the Al Horford Nut warming Cultist want to move Josh not because he is doing a bad Job, Oh no. there may be 3 maybe 4 guys in the entire NBA that can play the power forward on Josh’s level.

The want Josh to move because Al is a liability at center ( he would be at PF too, that why he is rated 15-25) and they serve their God Al so blindly they want to move him to Josh’s position to help Al. Not help the team.

fletcher t

August 30th, 2012
8:50 pm

I got the hawks winning 41 games as the team stand right now too many teams got better. We are working our way to the lottery.

AG

August 30th, 2012
8:55 pm

MaxxHawk – Yeah I agree, that Ken Strickland guy is smoking weed!!!! Yeah – we have to start ZaZa. He started most of last year and finished as a 8/7 guy. Heck – he is a career 6/5 and has never been given an All-Star game – so therefore his nimbers can’t compare to Al. Oh yeah – he had a career year in 07-08 of 12/7!

Yeah – and even in the playoffs in game five with the season in the balance – he blocked Rondo’s shot (My bad, that was Al.

He even came back after a major injury to play in the playoffs (Oh wait, that was Al)..

Why he is soooooooooooooooooooooooooo great, and his defense is sooooooo good he plays defense against Bynum and Howard. (Oh wait, that was Cornbread Collins and Damp).

Man – did you see that game were he dunked to win that Denver game – (Oh wait, he MISSED a wide open layup and the clock expired – actually did it twice).

What about all those nice catches from JT when he dunks the ball ( no – I am wrong again. I remember ol’ butter fingers dropping Teague’s assist by at least 2 per game).

Well at least ol’ butter fingers shows up big in the playoffs (no wait – he in kinda Marvin Williamish – with a 4.9/4.7 average in the playoffs.

No need to go over OUR over rated Al star center that the national media has ranked in the top 30 of ALL NBA players and some are saying is the best Hawk. Smokin’ Weed Strickland has already done that!

Maxx = stephen a smith I like how you keep changing your blog name and posting to appear a lot of people agree with you!.

Sautee

August 30th, 2012
8:57 pm

Good evening T-s,

Why are you telling this lie again?:

“So its true that Al was offered in trades 4 times then summer and none of the other teams took the offer. What does that tell you?”

No truth there, as you admitted to me earlier, neither of us were in Ferry’s office, so we don’t know what he might have offered, and there are ZERO press accounts of a definite trade being offered, just a lot of trade rumors, and writer’s speculation.

The entire blog already knows how you feel about Horford, so why are you compelled to lie about this?

And, T-s, as you well know, I do NOT want to move Josh from the 4. I still believe that Al and Josh are a potent combination. They will have more load to shoulder this year, and I’m looking forward to watching them play together again.

AG

August 30th, 2012
8:58 pm

One good thing the Hawks website has added 5 of Jeff’s top plays of 2012. Gotta like it when your point guard ’s highlights include posterizing dunks!

Sautee

August 30th, 2012
9:03 pm

AG,

I know you are doing your best to defend Horford, but you are incorrect about the end of Game 5. Horford did NOT block Rondo’s shot, as Rondo never shot the ball. What Al did was cut off Rondo’s drive and turned him back upcourt. Rondo then tried to pass but Josh tipped the pass out of bounds as time ran out.

Al played good D on that play, but he didn’t block a shot.

Sautee

August 30th, 2012
9:17 pm

T-s,

Here’s another lie: You’re on a roll tonight.

“Josh’s career Average is better than Al’s best year so we are talking apples and oranges.”

Josh career: 15.1 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg, 1.3 spg, 2.2 bpg

Al 2011: 15.3 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 3.5 apg, 0.8 spg, 1.0 bpg

So T-s, why isn’t it good enough to say that Horford’s best year compares closely with Josh’s career nimbers? It makes Josh look just as good without lying. I don’t understand the compulsion to needlessly exaggerate, particularly since you made your view known long ago.

I guess you’ll do what you must.

steven a smith

August 30th, 2012
9:23 pm

We are not the same guy. MaxxHawk is a better Blogger than myself! He posted some great Stuff 2-night!

Rusty

August 30th, 2012
9:51 pm

Steven smith should win a reward for being the blogs idiot.

Buddy Grizzard

August 30th, 2012
10:26 pm

Last year’s #nbarank top 50 on ESPN.com:

LOL at some of the people they had ranked ahead of Josh Smith:

1 LeBron James
2 Dwight Howard
3 Dwyane Wade
4 Chris Paul
5 Dirk Nowitzki
6 Kevin Durant
7 Kobe Bryant
8 Derrick Rose
9 Deron Williams
10 Blake Griffin
11 Pau Gasol
12 Carmelo Anthony
13 Amare Stoudamire
14 Steve Nash
15 Russel Westbrook
16 Kevin Love
17 Rajon Rondo
18 Manu Ginobili
19 Tim Duncan
20 Zach Randolph
21 Paul Pierce
22 Kevin Garnett
23 LaMarcus Aldridge
24 Chris Bosh
25 Al Horford
26 Marc Gasol
27 Rudy Gay
28 Tony Parker
29 Joakim Noah
30 Andrew Bynum
31 Nene
32 Joe Johnson
33 Andrew Bogut
34 Andre Iguodala
35 Ray Allen
36 Danny Granger
37 Tyson Chandler
38 Stephen Curry
39 Eric Gordon
40 John Wall
41 Monta Ellis
42 Kevin Martin
43 Josh Smith
44 Lamar Odom
45 David West
46 Luol Deng
47 Tyreke Evans
48 Gerald Wallace
49 Jason Kidd
50 Carlos Boozer

vava74

August 31st, 2012
3:07 am

Buddy,

You’re the one who gives creed to that cr@ppy and bogus list.

So why are you complaining?

fletcher t

August 31st, 2012
7:05 am

Buddy Grizzard That funny man, do us all a favor and step away from the key boards. The subject was power foward. not point guard and nor all positions. You have proven as many bloggers are stressing, that you are an idiot and have 0 (zero) credibility.

Chiming in on the Josh is average is better than Al’s best? Well thats because Josh sets a higher standard for his self than Al. Those are two different players at two difference levels. Josh is the best player on this team. Al is an oft injured role player who got his job taken by Zaza last year.

You tell me Do we trade whose career numbers are 12 pts and 9 rbs and go with the Duo of Ivan Johnson and Zaza who effectively cancelled out Al? I know alot of you have been comparing Al to Jon Koncak and Larry Drew To Bob Weiss. Larry Drew has apparently agreed and added his twin. Perhaps Al can Get Jon Koncak to work on his low post moves.

Baron

August 31st, 2012
7:08 am

Yea, Gizzard I only counted 2 power forwards on ‘your’ list ahead of Josh, so you are only proving what we already know Josh is an NBA top 5 (maybe 4) power forward.

Roger that!!

August 31st, 2012
7:23 am

So the gist of the ‘FACTS” are Al was the subject of hawks trade efforts this summer, as reported in the press.

Non of the reported trades of Al horford was accepted by the teams Al was being “shopped” too.

Buddy is an Idiot who makes an non credible post with no link. His list is so obviously made up and contrived that it obvious that a) Al was injured last year and was on nobody’s list and b) Buddly not only did not post a link but he did not screen for power forwards.c) Buddy is an verified Idiot.

So Al’s best is the low mark average for Josh. Al’s very best (he’s only done this once in his career) is about the average of what Josh has been doing all along 15 pts per game. It proves the point that Al his peaked, and that peaked is not very high.

Roger that!!

August 31st, 2012
7:28 am

Josh career: 15 ppg, 7 rpg, 3.apg, 1.3 spg, 2 bpg

Al 2011: 15 ppg, 9rpg, 3 apg, 0.8 spg, 1.0 bpg

Yea, Josh Career numbers are better than Al ’s one (1) decent year. The points are the same and since Josh is playing all the defense at the least al can do is go pick up the loose ball rebound. josh has more steals and blocks in his career average than Al has is his best 1 decent year out of his entire sub standard underachieving, team chemistry killing career.

AG revisited

August 31st, 2012
7:46 am

Al at is his best (1 decent year out of his entire sub standard underachieving, team chemistry killing career.) is just an average performance from Josh’s standard. Josh level of play is championship caliber. Al is just average.

There is not a hell of a lot of difference between Al and Zaza Al hold a slight edge in points but He is not the enforcer that Zaza , nor Ivan is for that matter. If I have to choose between a combo Ivan/Zaza or Al horford I choose the dynamic duo and get the same results for 7 million dollars cheaper and better team chemistry.

“Horford did NOT block Rondo’s shot, as Rondo never shot the ball. What Al did was cut off Rondo’s drive and turned him back upcourt. Rondo then tried to pass but Josh tipped the pass out of bounds as time ran out.

Al played good D on that play, but he didn’t block a shot.” – It was (as usual) Josh who knocked the ball out of bounds.

AG what you willfully ignore and apologize for is the FACT that Al committe 7 (SEVEN) TURNOVERS IN 1 FCKING GAME.!! and cost the hawks the playoffs!!!

How in the hell does your center commit 7 freaking turn overs in 1 game? Centers dont even handle the ball that much. WTF? What an idiot and clown Al is. 7 fcking turn overs in a PLAYOFF Game where he should have been the most rested player. Trade his under achieving, play of losing as now!

Roger that!!

August 31st, 2012
7:50 am

*Buddy is a verified Idiot.

Roger that!!

August 31st, 2012
7:51 am

vava74

August 31st, 2012
3:07 am

Buddy,

You’re the one who gives creed to that cr@ppy and bogus list.

So why are you complaining?

Link
Report this comment

fletcher t

August 31st, 2012
7:05 am

Buddy Grizzard That funny man, do us all a favor and step away from the key boards. The subject was power foward. not point guard and nor all positions. You have proven as many bloggers are stressing, that you are an idiot and have 0 (zero) credibility.

Chiming in on the Josh is average is better than Al’s best? Well thats because Josh sets a higher standard for his self than Al. Those are two different players at two difference levels. Josh is the best player on this team. Al is an oft injured role player who got his job taken by Zaza last year.

You tell me Do we trade whose career numbers are 12 pts and 9 rbs and go with the Duo of Ivan Johnson and Zaza who effectively cancelled out Al? I know alot of you have been comparing Al to Jon Koncak and Larry Drew To Bob Weiss. Larry Drew has apparently agreed and added his twin. Perhaps Al can Get Jon Koncak to work on his low post moves.

Link
Report this comment

Baron

August 31st, 2012
7:08 am

Yea, Gizzard I only counted 2 power forwards on ‘your’ list ahead of Josh, so you are only proving what we already know Josh is an NBA top 5 (maybe 4) power forward.

Link
Report this comment

Roger that!!

August 31st, 2012
7:23 am

So the gist of the ‘FACTS” are Al was the subject of hawks trade efforts this summer, as reported in the press.

Non of the reported trades of Al horford was accepted by the teams Al was being “shopped” too.

Buddy is an Idiot who makes an non credible post with no link. His list is so obviously made up and contrived that it obvious that a) Al was injured last year and was on nobody’s list and b) Buddly not only did not post a link but he did not screen for power forwards.c) Buddy is an verified Idiot.

So Al’s best is the low mark average for Josh. Al’s very best (he’s only done this once in his career) is about the average of what Josh has been doing all along 15 pts per game. It proves the point that Al his peaked, and that peaked is not very high.

Link
Report this comment

Roger that!!

August 31st, 2012
7:28 am

Josh career: 15 ppg, 7 rpg, 3.apg, 1.3 spg, 2 bpg

Al 2011: 15 ppg, 9rpg, 3 apg, 0.8 spg, 1.0 bpg

Yea, Josh Career numbers are better than Al ’s one (1) decent year. The points are the same and since Josh is playing all the defense at the least al can do is go pick up the loose ball rebound. josh has more steals and blocks in his career average than Al has is his best 1 decent year out of his entire sub standard underachieving, team chemistry killing career.

Link
Report this comment

AG revisited

August 31st, 2012
7:46 am

Al at is his best (1 decent year out of his entire sub standard underachieving, team chemistry killing career.) is just an average performance from Josh’s standard. Josh level of play is championship caliber. Al is just average.

There is not a hell of a lot of difference between Al and Zaza Al hold a slight edge in points but He is not the enforcer that Zaza , nor Ivan is for that matter. If I have to choose between a combo Ivan/Zaza or Al horford I choose the dynamic duo and get the same results for 7 million dollars cheaper and better team chemistry.

“Horford did NOT block Rondo’s shot, as Rondo never shot the ball. What Al did was cut off Rondo’s drive and turned him back upcourt. Rondo then tried to pass but Josh tipped the pass out of bounds as time ran out.

Al played good D on that play, but he didn’t block a shot.” – It was (as usual) Josh who knocked the ball out of bounds.

AG what you willfully ignore and apologize for is the FACT that Al committe 7 (SEVEN) TURNOVERS IN 1 FCKING GAME.!! and cost the hawks the playoffs!!!

How in the hell does your center commit 7 freaking turn overs in 1 game? Centers dont even handle the ball that much. WTF? What an idiot and clown Al is. 7 fcking turn overs in a PLAYOFF Game where he should have been the most rested player. Trade his under achieving, play of losing as now!

Buddy Grizzard

August 31st, 2012
7:54 am

“Josh level of play is championship caliber.”

Yeah like when he passes the ball to Rondo. Also, take your meds, T-S. Also, Google is your friend.

“You’re the one who gives creed to that cr@ppy and bogus list. So why are you complaining?”

Try to follow along with the conversation, Vava. The topic is, are Al Horford and Josh Smith top 30 players in the NBA? According to ESPN last year, Horford was and Josh was not. It’s a pretty safe guess that Al will slip and Josh will jump significantly.

O'Brien

August 31st, 2012
8:40 am

Ken S,

Just suppose Ferry told him that he wants him to consider becoming the teams starting SF once again..

Imo, The coach makes the decision on what position Josh will play, not the GM.

You know Ferry had to tell Josh something very encouraging about both he and the team to get him to make an immediate commitment to return..

I agree that Josh was probably encouraged from his conversation with DF. But Josh did not make a “commitment to return”. He simply withdrew his request to be traded. Big difference (imo).

With Josh usually going up against smaller shorter defenders at SF, and Horford at PF usually going up against smaller and shorter players, both players should improve their overall production..

At PF last season, Josh averaged 18.8 pts, 9.6 rebs, and 1.7 blocks per game, which is better than his career average of 15, 8 and 2. As a SF, how is he going to improve his overall production from last year?

O'Brien

August 31st, 2012
8:57 am

MaxxHawk,

Its amazing that there are 4 legitimate stories about Al being offered in trade scenario’s in the last 2 1/2 months and not a word out of Cun & ham. Simply amazin..

Please post the links to these legitimate stories you speak of, because I would like to read them.

We will never get above an average to good team with Al as a starter on our front line. Never. We are resigned to mediocrity..

So are we an average to good team, or are we mediocre? Make up your mind.

Roger That!

The want Josh to move because Al is a liability at center.

A liability at center made 2 all-star teams and one all NBA while playing center? Interesting.

MsDee

August 31st, 2012
9:02 am

@OB,

“Just suppose Ferry told him that he wants him to consider becoming the teams starting SF once again..”

Imo, The coach makes the decision on what position Josh will play, not the GM.”

Well, that may be true but that hasn’t stopped Ferry from firing and replacing Drew’s coaching staff w/o allowing Drew to choose who he wants.

“You know Ferry had to tell Josh something very encouraging about both he and the team to get him to make an immediate commitment to return..

I agree that Josh was probably encouraged from his conversation with DF. But Josh did not make a “commitment to return”. He simply withdrew his request to be traded. Big difference (imo).”

Again, that may be true but after knowing Josh since he has been a Hawk, it shouldnt be hard to recognize if he WANTS to be the main focal point to the Hawks by keeping his talents here, or jumping ship after his contract is up. I choose to believe he wants to stay LONG TERM!

“With Josh usually going up against smaller shorter defenders at SF, and Horford at PF usually going up against smaller and shorter players, both players should improve their overall production..

At PF last season, Josh averaged 18.8 pts, 9.6 rebs, and 1.7 blocks per game, which is better than his career average of 15, 8 and 2. As a SF, how is he going to improve his overall production from last year?”

Again, u are going based on last season, the season Horford didnt get the chance to play, which means he was able to get both his AND Horford’s points/rebounds. This season is the season we should judge weither or not Horford is a future trade bait.

O'Brien

August 31st, 2012
9:02 am

Roger that!,

How in the hell does your center commit 7 freaking turn overs in 1 game?.

In 2010, Dwight Howard averaged 4 turnovers per game. In fact, he had games in which he had 6 turnovers against Utah, 6 turnovers against Detroit, 6 turnovers against Atlanta (in 2 different games), 7 turnovers against Cleveland, 7 turnovers against Memphis, 6 turnovers against the Lakers, 7 turnovers against Chicago, and 9 turnovers against the Lakers.

Yeah, Dwight Howard must really suck to have all those turnovers.

Ken Strickland

August 31st, 2012
9:12 am

OBRIEN-I’m certain Ferry informed LDrew of his intention to trade JJ and Marvin to clear cap space, and the trades would leave them with no viable SF. I seriously doubt Ferry told Josh anything about a possible position change for him without discussing it with HC LDrew first and reaching a mutual agreement on the possible move.

Why the assumption the Ferry is acting in a vaccum and excluding Drew? I don’t believe he is making any decisions without getting LDrew’s input and approval. Unless a trade that will secure a SF is forthcoming, which can’t happen before 9-11, Josh at SF is our most logical option.

In fact, instead of trading for a SF, we might see a trade for a backup OC to add depth behind Zaza, who would be starting if Josh moves to SF. If we’re going to have a smallish but lightning quick, fast and athletic backcourt, we might as well start a big frontline. Remember, I’m just speculating on this issue, nothing more. Unlike our delusional posters, I’m not trying to pass speculation, rumors, assumptions, beliefs, feelings etc, off as facts.

Ken Strickland

August 31st, 2012
9:49 am

OBRIEN-To answer your question. Josh can improve upon last yrs production by simply becoming a more efficient scorer. That means shooting a higher FG% and FT%. He would have a much better chance of doing that going up against SFs in the paint, which on average wouldn’t be a tall, big, or as physical as the PFs he usually encounters.

Even though SF is a less than ideal position for him, you can utilize his strengths to compensate for any weaknesses. Instead of launching more illadvised jumpshots, as some claim he might do if moved to SF, it could actually have an opposite effect. You add that to him no longer having to compete with JJ for shots, and we might finally get him to become a force in the paint.

That would mean that Josh, our best post player will be posting up, and Horford, our most effective and efficient jumpshooter, will be raining jumpers, with Zaza cleaning up inside.

Astro Joe

August 31st, 2012
9:51 am

Rod, call the drug store for a prescription refill. I have no idea how my discussion about Horford could be used to discuss Jamal. And while LD’s strategy changed the way Al played, it did NOT affect his ability to contribute to the team’s success. IMO, Jamal is no longer on the team because of the combination of budget issues and Jamal’s salary demands. But with limited funds, the Hawks never should have been paying over $25M for a single position (SG between Joe & Jamal). That’s around 35% of the team’s payroll… it never made sense.

OB, don’t waste your time. Some guy at ESPN suggested that the Hawks trade Horford for the Bobcats #2 pick. It wasn’t a rumor… it was a writer who was told to create a few trades to fill the website with interesting content. Kind of like the rumor from 2-3 weeks ago about the Lakers trying to acquire Josh Smith. No substance, just pure speculation for the sake of filling vacant website space. Too bad some folk don’t understand the difference between credible rumors/reports and a blogger who makes stuff up to generate more clicks on a website.

Derrick Brown, huh? If memory serves me, his body type is closer to Ivan’s than it is to someone like Josh Howard. If Ferry decides to focus on front court players who can rebound, that wouldn’t be the worse idea… considering the track speed in the backcourt. Dominic McGuire would be a good get if he moves in that direction.

Ken Strickland

August 31st, 2012
10:01 am

OBRIEN-Although we might disagree on certain things, I know for certain you are a true Hawks fan that want’s what’s best for the team. Some of the ANALS who post negative BS after negative BS are just STUCK ON STUPID, and no amount of common sense reasoning or facts will change them. These ANALS even refuse to accept FACTS, like Horford is a 2 time All Star and All NBA, or every player ranking or article ranks Horford ahead of Josh.

So do like I’ve decided to do, and that’s to ignore these ANALS and their prerequisite stench.

vava74

August 31st, 2012
10:01 am

Derrick Brown is built more like a truck than a sedan… so its seems that we are entering Ivan’s territory.

Derrick actually put up good numbers on garbage minutes for a garbage team – for what it’s worth.

He even went 10 for 10 against BOS earlier in the season.

High-sider, I guess that we have a new Boston Strangler in the making for you :-D

vava74

August 31st, 2012
10:02 am

AJ,

You beat me to the Ivan comparison :-D

Ken Strickland

August 31st, 2012
10:07 am

ASTRO JOE-Co-sign your 9:51am post. What are your thoughts on my idea of using Josh at SF, assuming we don’t trade for one?

O'Brien

August 31st, 2012
10:15 am

MaxxHawk,

Would you believe the Hawks were actually trying to trade Josh last year for the #2 pick? Say it aint so. And unlike you…I have a link from yahoo sports.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_draft_cavaliers_irving_062311&expire=1/

And in case the link doesn’t come up…this is what it says, From yahoo sports;

NEW YORK – In a lust to draft center Enes Kanter, the Atlanta Hawks are trying to engage the Minnesota Timberwolves in discussions to trade Josh Smith(notes) for the No. 2 pick in Thursday’s NBA draft, sources told Yahoo! Sports.

So far, the Wolves haven’t been forthcoming on a potential deal, but sources say Atlanta was still trying to discuss a deal in the hours leading up to the draft.

The Wolves have privately committed to drafting Arizona forward Derrick Williams with the second pick, but the Hawks want to sell Minnesota on Smith as an open-court finisher to play along with rookie point guard Ricky Rubio(notes).

Hawks GM Rick Sund has been hugely interested in Kanter throughout the pre-draft process, sources said, and has clearly been looking to find a deal for Smith. Under the salary cap, the Wolves could absorb the $13 million-plus owed him next season without sending back corresponding contracts..

Just Joe

August 31st, 2012
10:16 am

This is how I see our team & team needs:

High-Post Center – Al Horford (has the mid-range jumper, decent passer, must prove he’s willing to guard any center in the league).

Low-Post Forward – Josh Smith (runs the floor, good passer, shot selection is key, elite defender).

Defensive-Minded Wing – ???? (good defender with length, can knock down the open 3).

Shooter – Jenkins (knows how to work off screens, deep range, has to improve his ball-handling, has to be willing to put in effort on defense)

Penetrating PG – Teague (quick, solid defender, deadly floater, needs to keep working on the 3, add the mid-range jumper, and be a better facilitator)

Scorer off the bench – LouWill (must be able to fill in for both guard spots)

Wing Defender off the bench – ???? (capable of providing elite defense in short bursts off the bench)

Shooters off the bench – Korver, Morrow (deep range)

Backup PF – Ivan (rebound, defend, hustle, mid-range jumper a plus)

Backup C – ZaZa (wide body, rebound, hustle, tough, no offensive skills necessary)

3rd String Center – ???? (athletic shot-blocker & scorer, kind of a change-of-pace from the wide-bodied backup center, PF/C types can work)

Suits/D-League – 3rd String PG, Project Big (PF/C)

Coah – ???? (personable, demands respect, good at recognizing, developing, and motivating young talent, good X’s and O’s guy)

O'Brien

August 31st, 2012
10:18 am

Based on that link, the plan may have been to start Enes Kanter at Center, and move Al to PF.

O'Brien

August 31st, 2012
10:21 am

Just Joe,

High-Post Center – Al Horford (has the mid-range jumper, decent passer, must prove he’s willing to guard any center in the league)..

Do you mean he must prove he is “able” to guard any center in the league? Because I don’t recall reading/hearing Al saying he is not “willing” to guard any center in the league.

O'Brien

August 31st, 2012
10:29 am

Ken S,

With the Hawks being committed to being more uptempo, they could start Korver at SF. He is terrible on defense, but he is a good shooter, so the Hawks may try and win games in a shootout (110 – 105).

imo though, there are SF free agents available (my pick would be Pietrus), so we dont have to go down the road of Josh at SF.

Sautee

August 31st, 2012
11:00 am

“Al at is his best (1 decent year out of his entire sub standard underachieving, team chemistry killing career.) is just an average performance from Josh’s standard. Josh level of play is championship caliber. Al is just average.” – T-s

Interesting there, T-s. OK, follow me here: If Josh’s level of play is championship caliber (as you say) and Horford’s best season was an “average” Josh season, then even if YOU think Horford is average, you have just admitted that Horford’s best season was championship caliber!

That’s a stunning admission from you, T-s. ;-)

ag

August 31st, 2012
11:05 am

There is so much blame to pass around for the Boston loss. The biggest two games were games 2 & 3. Again, game two Boston without Rondo and Allen in Atlanta – but Pierce goes crazy and NOBOBY can stop him – even our 22 million dollar man. Then game three – Willie Green misses a easy jumper.

I guess after not playing basketball in more than 4 months and try to return in the playoffs – I can have 7 to’s – a lot of rust

Also, I am a Hawk fan and watch more than 98% of there games over two years. I do remember when Al scored 30 and abused Noah afterr the Hawks were getting blistered by over 30 in the Phillips…

I have NEVER seen the GREAT Butter-fingers ZaZa accomplish that.

Astro Joe

August 31st, 2012
11:08 am

OB, Just Joe wants Horford to DEMAND that he go out and guard all centers and if LD doesn’t allow him to do so, then Horford should be traded (presumably for not forcing his head coach to employ a different strategy).

Strickland, Josh Smith is clerly an option at SF and rather he starts there or not, I suspect that LD will want to put his 3 best frontcourt players on the floor at the same time and (unless there is a big change) that will be Zaza, Al and Josh. I don’t think that is the best position for Josh and I think it could hurt his stats in his free agent year, but it is clearly an option for a team that may not have anything better than a minimum-wage SF. I saw the stats you posted yesterday, but honestly, I recall that in Josh’s early career, he was playing “rover”… he just ran around looking to block shots. He had no real position and (this is important to consider), those teams were awful. So I would not expect him to be the same type of rim protector if he plays SF for 24+ minutes/game.

Just Joe

August 31st, 2012
11:22 am

OB and AJ….I stand by the fact that LD has not played Horford against the bigger centers in the league. LD evidently thinks Horford either can’t defend them, or he can’t stay out of foul trouble while trying to defend them. I believe that your starting center can’t be handled that way. Whether its Al’s fault, or LD’s fault, doesn’t really matter. The fact is that it’s happening, and in my opinion, it has to be corrected.

Just Joe

August 31st, 2012
11:38 am

To expand on my opinion of why I don’t like the Josh, Al, and ZaZa front line is because I think it weakens the offense too much. Spacing is destroyed because all 3 bigs are only effective from mid-range in, with Horford and ZaZa being very limited with their back to the basket.

It also weakens your depth chart as your 3rd string center is now your backup center.

Astro Joe

August 31st, 2012
11:41 am

Just Joe, that’s where we disgaree… it does not “have to be corrected”. The Hawks WON with the disposable big man strategy (against the Magic). Is the objective for individual players to be able to guard every player at thier position or is the objective to win a games? It would need to be corrected if it were a losing strategy, why does a winning strategy need to be fixed?

Astro Joe

August 31st, 2012
11:47 am

Just Joe, look at Joakim Noah’s stats against the Lakers (Bynum) and Orlando (Howard) last year. I assume that he would be one center who attempts to defend each and every center the Bulls play. Check out his stats against those two big players compared to his total averages. Look at his fouls, his minutes, his points & rebonds, etc.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/3224/joakim-noah

glw

August 31st, 2012
11:51 am

@ Just Joe,

I dont think its an issue that Horford needs to demand to guard the other teams best center. I think its more about LD’s strategy which tends to be offensively focused. He wants Horford on the floor and the feeling is that Horford is slightly undersized and more apt to get into foul trouble against bigger centers thus limiting his offensive effectivness. I for one am on board with that strategy as it seem to work against Dwight when he was with the Magic.

Not to mention there are other factors in starting Zaza at Center, it does allow your 3 best frontcourt players on the floor, but it takes one less shooter off the floor. I think occassionally starting Zaza against the bigger physical teams will keep him sharp and motivated. As has been proven, Zaza is most effective when he knows he is a vital part of the team and is being counted on for critical minutes.

The best scenario for the hawks is to rotate Zaza and TBD wing as starters depending on the opponent. Obviously against the Lakers Zaza would have to start as they have 2 7 footers and josh can get away with playing the 3 on World Peace. smaller teams such as orlando, milwaukee or someone like that, then Horford starts at Center.

Buddy Grizzard

August 31st, 2012
12:08 pm

“I’m certain Ferry informed LDrew of his intention to trade JJ and Marvin to clear cap space.”

Not sure what makes you so certain LD didn’t find out about it from media reports. I doubt Ferry gave LD much notice that he was firing half his coaching staff and hand-picking the replacements either. Of course the public-facing story is that this was all LD’s idea, despite his statements to the contrary to MC that he did not desire to make any changes to his staff.

“Why the assumption the Ferry is acting in a vaccum and excluding Drew?”

I don’t assume. But I have no more reason to believe that LD is included in these decisions than I have to believe he is excluded, regardless of how the organization tries to shape the narrative.

“That would mean that Josh, our best post player will be posting up, and Horford, our most effective and efficient jumpshooter, will be raining jumpers, with Zaza cleaning up inside.”

What a terrific game plan! Plus on the perimeter we have all these shooters that can space the floor and create driving lanes and we’ve got Teague and Lou to create offense off the bounce. This team is undersized but extremely dangerous. smh at anybody who thinks this team won’t make the playoffs.

Grandad

August 31st, 2012
12:34 pm

This blog mirrors our country.

~ Red states vs Blue states
~ Rush Limbaugh vs Rachel Maddow
~ Right wing vs Liberals

Everything must be my guy vs your guy.

How can one be fiscally conservative and socially progressive
in these here United States of America ?
You can`t … `cause you must pick a team;
and once you pick a team … you must believe all their dawgma.

Civil discourse has degenerated into mine agin your`n.

The next reality TV show will pit Clint Eastwood vs our own T-s.
* [..Now that would be must see TV..]

note; T-s will be sitting in an empty chair.

Back to my point;
why must we always have to tear down one entity ?
in order to build up another ?
Why can`t one build up one`s champion on strength alone ?
What has happened to civility of discourse in our country ?
Where is the respect ?
Since when does one disrespect
the President of the United States of America
as if he is just some comic.

Al & Josh are both Atl Hawks – (just so yawl know) – !

How does this all tie together ?
I don`t know ?
It just seemed to fit ?

Go Dawgmas !

ag

August 31st, 2012
12:59 pm

Just Joe – I don’t like ZaZa starting. I really like Ivan, Al and Josh or go small. I am leaning on keeping Josh at PF

O'Brien

August 31st, 2012
1:08 pm

Rod,

He is a solid player. But at 12 mil per season, he needs to step his game up offensively..

I do agree that Al needs to step up. 2 years ago, he averaged close to 15 and 10. We need him to get back to those numbers.

O'Brien

August 31st, 2012
1:11 pm

G’dad,

why must we always have to tear down one entity ?
in order to build up another ?
.

Agreed. Al and Josh are both Hawks, so we should be rooting for both. And if there is a deal that makes the Hawks better, I hope DF will not hesitate to trade either or both.

Grandad

August 31st, 2012
1:30 pm

O’B

Thanks;
and I agree … a trade that would make our Hawks champeens …
even if it mean`t trading Zaza … I would grin and bear it.

-plus-
I was a Hawks fan way before Al and or Josh were even born.

Sautee

August 31st, 2012
1:36 pm

O’B,

co-sign your 1:11 post.

Grandad

August 31st, 2012
1:41 pm

I think Zelmo Beaty was my 1st ever favorite Hawk;
even when he played in St Louis.

Sautee

August 31st, 2012
1:50 pm

G’dad,

Big Z (the original Big Z) devastated the Hawks when he left. It was all downhill from there. I loved his game.

The modern player he most reminds me of is Alonzo Mourning, though Z had a much better offensive game than Zo. And that’s IF Alonzo can be considered a “modern player”, LOL. Most folks look at pre-1979 as the “older generation” of the NBA, but there are young’ns who think Shaq is from “the old days”.

There are a couple of generations of fans that never knew or understood just how good these older players were. Sad but oh so true.

Grandad

August 31st, 2012
2:19 pm

Sautee

Losing Zelmo & Jumpin` Joe Caldwell one yr later
[to the ABA]
started the Hawks downward spiral.

Sweet Lou, Zelmo, Joe Caldwell, Bill Bridges, Paul Silas,
Lenny Wilkins, George Lehman … all on that St Louie team …
that came to Atlanta. *[Lehman went to the ABA as well]

Sautee

August 31st, 2012
2:26 pm

G’dad,

Yeah, and right after that they traded Wilkins for Walt Hazzard. At the time it was not unlike trading ‘Nique for Danny Manning, at least to me. Folks didn’t realize how good Lenny was until Walt got here.

Bad ol’ days have lasted a while, eh?

Ken Strickland

August 31st, 2012
2:57 pm

BUDDY GRIZZARD-Not sure what makes you think LD found out about the trades through the media, or that Ferry didn’t give him much notice before firing some of his staff. There’s nothing on his resume or in his past that would make anyone assume he’s the kind of exec that would do something like that to his subordinate.

You claim to have no more reason to believe LD was included in Ferry’s decisions than you have to believe he was excluded, yet you strongly suggest he was excluded. Barring us trading for a quality SF, I believe a lineup of Zaza OC, Horford PF, Josh SF, Teague PG, and DHarris SG, would be a very dangerous lineup.

While it might have a minor impact on our depth at OC, we managed to do a doggone good job last yr with Zaza starting, with IJohnson as our primary backup OC. Petro has proven to be a more productive backup than Collins or Dampier, and Horford can always move over when needed.

O'Brien

August 31st, 2012
3:07 pm

Ken S,

These are some of the free agent SF available;

Gee (who I know you like), Matt Barnes, Pietrus (who I like), Jamario Moon, Damien Wilkins, Josh Childress and Dominic McGuire just to name a few. I think Danny Ferry will either a)Trade one of his guards for a SF or b) sign a free agent SF, which can probably he had for the vet min due to supply and demand.

That way, we wont lose anything at center with Al and Zaza holding down the position, and Josh will only be needed for spot minutes at SF.

Ra'mon

August 31st, 2012
3:09 pm

Here is my trade of the day guys.

Atlanta Gets:
Kevin Martin

Houston Gets:
A. Morrow
K. Korver
And D. Stephenson

This will give the Rockets good depth at the 2 guard while swapping their unhappy player for 3 other expiring contracts. And for the Hawks, Martin is 6′7 and an experienced scorer who can and has played the SF position before. This would not the Hawks a great deal with depth, because they will still have Teague and Harris at PG, Jenkins and Lou at SG, and now they have Martin and who ever makes the team from camp at the SF position. Martin is as good of a shooter as Korver or Morris. And he is a better scorer than either of the two.

A starting lineup of Teague – Jenkins – Martin – Josh – Al is a playoff starting line up. And I think collectively Lou and Martin is just as good as Joe and Marvin was.

Ken Strickland

August 31st, 2012
3:12 pm

GRANDAD/SAUTEE-I believe think the event that triggered the beginning of our demise was the signing rookie Pistol Pete to such a large contract. That move made him the highest paid player on a veteran ladened team, which infuriated those veterans players. As a result, they basically refused to resign with the team and went elsewhere.

I actually remember Zelmo Beatty commenting on the Hawks spending so much money on an unproven rookie before taking care of their proven veteran players.

Sautee

August 31st, 2012
3:22 pm

KenS,

I’m not saying that Z never commented on Maravich, but he left for the ABA before Pete was drafted.

Just FYI.

O'Brien

August 31st, 2012
4:04 pm

Ra’mon,

I like Kevin Martin. But 1) I prefer him as a SG and 2) I will be surprised if Jenkins is ready to be a starter his rookie year.

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

August 31st, 2012
4:16 pm

Hawks vs Heat in the Eastern Conference Finals

Astro Joe

August 31st, 2012
4:32 pm

G’dad and Sautee, thanks… you guys made me feel about 20 years younger today. My left knee makes a clicking noise when I walk up the stairs, my right shoulder is gimpy and I have more hair in my ears than my head… but after reading about some guy named Zelmo, I am ready to hit a club and listen to some Rick James (he still makes music, right?).

:lol:

The Truth

August 31st, 2012
4:44 pm

“Here is my trade of the day guys.

Atlanta Gets:
Kevin Martin

Houston Gets:
A. Morrow
K. Korver
And D. Stephenson” – Ramon

This would get us an extremely serviceable SF though I believe Houston is looking to net a bigger fish and/or perhaps a pick. However, even if this deal was desirable to them, they must first cut their roster down by 7 players to add 2 more. They have 19 players currently under contract including 2 that are team option.

I’m guessing they hold Martin until the trading deadline before they move him. That way, they eat their cake (getting Martin’s production for most of the season) and get ice-cream too (moving him and getting value in return).

The Truth

August 31st, 2012
4:50 pm

“they must first cut their roster down by 7 players to add 3 more”

Just Joe

August 31st, 2012
4:51 pm

AJ….The disposable big man was a “winning strategy” against what I feel was an Orlando team that lacked any kind of quality depth. We won that series, then were defeated by Chicago, who was then defeated by Miami. In other words, we weren’t real contenders anyway . In my opinion (and again, I have no problem with us disagreeing), that strategy, or better yet, the roster that requires that strategy, will not take us where we want to go.

IMO, it is almost impossible to establish any kind of offensive system with 3 bigs on the floor that are as limited offensively as Josh, Al & ZaZa are. We used iso-Joe, iso-Jamal against Orlando & it worked because they had noone on the perimeter to stay with those 2. That will not work against the better teams in the league, as we’ve proven.

High post Al, low post Josh, two shooters, and a penetrating PG can work. When you have to pull one of those 5 and put in a center that gives you nothing on the offensive end, it disrupts the whole flow of your offense.

Ken Strickland

August 31st, 2012
4:53 pm

I’ve noticed that several CAGERS have mentioned MPetrius as their choice for our SF position. But he seems to be past his prime. Last yr he averaged
6.8PPG
3.1RPG
0.5SPG
0.2BPG
0.6APG
in 21.9MINS. His FG% was 38.5, and his FT% was 66.5. He averaged 6.4FGAs with 4.3 of those being 3pt attempts. That means he’s become little more than a 3pt shooting specialist. We can probably get better production from Korver or Morrow at SF. Besides, there’s a reason Boston doesn’t want him back, and his DEF has also slipped as well.

Josh at SF gives us a size, height, strength, and/or athletic advantage over most SFs, and none of those advantages will hinder our ability to be an uptempo fastbreaking team. Zaza did a very commendable job last yr in Horford’s absence. But he would do an even better job this yr as our starting OC by being flanked by 2 double digit capable rebounders and 2 interior help defenders.

Having a backcourt rotation of PG JTeague and SG DHarris as starters, along with PG/SG LWilliams and SG AMorrow, SG/SF KKorver, SG JJenkins, PF/OC IJohnson, OC Petro, PF/OCs JWilliams and/or Benson, would constitute a very talented starting 5 and a solid, versatile and deep bench.

I’ill bet anyone that JSmith at SF would be a helluva lot more productive, both offensively or defensively, than any roster player we could put at SF, or any FA SF we could sign. Those who don’t like the idea will nit pick and look for reasons or excuses why it won’t work.

However, they completely overlook the negative issues that exists with their potential solutions. Oh, buy the way, Petrius is 6′6″ 215lbs, so his size and/or height are issues for those who think we should get bigger at SF.

steven a smith

August 31st, 2012
5:44 pm

Ra’mon

August 31st, 2012
3:09 pm

Here is my trade of the day guys.

Atlanta Gets:
Kevin Martin

Houston Gets:
A. Morrow
K. Korver
And D. Stephenson

Bad trade. No way we should even consider trading Morrow and Korver. Bad idea.

Slimjr

August 31st, 2012
5:58 pm

“Hawks vs. Heat, ECF” –W.W.Clyde-

Wait a minute Sir.. Slow down, Mr. Bahia!

1st the Hawks will have to contend with the Knicks in the 1st rd.

Knicks= 3rd seed

Hawks= 6th seed

Oh the Humanity!

KevinM

August 31st, 2012
6:04 pm

FWIW, NBA Hardwood Classics on NBA-TV now showing Nique getting 52 and the Hawks playing the Knicks to double OT in the Omni.
Our coach: Bob Weiss….incredible timing by the NBA-TV crew.

Got to see Rasmussen, Volkov, Rumeal, Willis, Mo Cheeks, Snoop Graham (remember him?) and Doc……Van Earl Wright and the Stinger with the call.

We had some an imposing team in ‘91! :)

And for all the talk of needing a SF…..I don’t see that being a huge impact. Josh is going to be our SF, Al our PF, providing Zaza is healthy. A SF getting 10-15 mpg sounds like what Danny is looking for.

And any update on Ivan or do we just wait til official practice to get any update on him?

And Nique gets the pump fake bucket over brother Gerald.

Slimjr

August 31st, 2012
6:10 pm

Grandad:

This Josh vs. Al landslide began with one of the [regulars] mentioning that Al is is locked in for several more years so he’s cheaper and it maybe in the best interest for the Hawks to trade Josh since he may cost max money at the end of the season to keep on board..

And yes 1950’s [set shot] might have been very accurate in the 50’s, today I shut it down if I saw that in the Gym..

Hence it becomes less effective as you march towards the finals in today’s NBA.. The defense ratchets up and the set shot is neutralized 65 years later.

Down goes Frazier!

KevinM

August 31st, 2012
6:13 pm

Paul ‘Snoop’ Graham (#25)talking trash to Sparks…and my bad, Doc’s not on this team.

Slimjr

August 31st, 2012
6:14 pm

If the Hawks to not find a star wing at the 3:

I do not see Josh and Al taking this team to an ECF much less a Finals…

One will eventually be gone to go farther..Hmmm

Which one Danny?

KevinM

August 31st, 2012
6:15 pm

Talk about a different Hawks scheme back in ‘91…Willis and the frontline giving the ball up in the backcourt to Rumeal and Mo…

You don’t see that on today’s Hawks teams! Perhaps Weiss does have something over LD! :)

steven a smith

August 31st, 2012
6:16 pm

Kevin Willis could probably be our starting center “today” Imagine if we had Nique at SF right now, a young Nique. Al would not “crack” the starting 5 of this Hawks team.

Slimjr

August 31st, 2012
6:18 pm

If I saw All NBA start bringing up the ball with his one handed dribble and totally ignore my point guard, his azz is sitting on the bench next to me…

We do not need a point 5…..C’mon man[Larry]!

Slimjr

August 31st, 2012
6:21 pm

Just Joe, Al is foul prone against better than average centers. So he’s riding the bench early in games..

Start this guy at the 4 and watch him pickup his 2nd foul 3mins into the basketball game….Hmmm

Slimjr

August 31st, 2012
6:23 pm

[do not]^^^^ delete [to]

Ken Strickland

August 31st, 2012
6:40 pm

I’ll be so glad when Sept 11 comes and goes so Ferry can legally start initiating trade talks using the players we acquired in the JJ and Marvin trades.

Ken Strickland

August 31st, 2012
7:10 pm

Enter your comments here

Ken Strickland

August 31st, 2012
7:28 pm

FOOD FOR THOUGHT-Shortly after the FA period opened, there were rumors of us having serious interest in Cleveland’s Alonzo Gee. We know he’s so far refused to sign their contract offer. Suppose he won’t sign because he wants to sign with us, knowing we have a big need for a SF and he’s very familiar with Ferry.

He knows he can’t get a bigger contract from us than Cleveland can offer, but he knows he can if he’s part of a sign and trade. However, if that’s true, he also knows we can’t do a sign and trade using the players we acquired in the Marvin and JJ trade before Sept 11th. Maybe he’s holding out until Ferry is in a position to do a sign and trade using the JJ and Marvin trade acquistions.

Sautee

August 31st, 2012
7:55 pm

“Just Joe, Al is foul prone against better than average centers. So he’s riding the bench early in games.” – slimjr

Hey slim, got anything to back that up, since Horford’s career average for PF / gm is 2.83?

Slimjr

August 31st, 2012
8:21 pm

Ken Strickland

August 31st, 2012
8:43 pm

SAUTEE-If he’s telling you to look it up, you can bet your life he hasn’t bothered to look anything up.

Sautee

August 31st, 2012
8:53 pm

slimjr,

Since when is less than 3 fouls per game “foul prone”?

I DID look it up – BEFORE I posted to you. I don’t see any evidence, other than vs. D12, of anything like “foul prone” vs. “better than average” centers. D12 leads the league in FTA, so Horford’s not alone in getting called for fouls against him.

That’s what I got on that subject slim. What do YOU have, other than an opinion stated as fact?

Roger that!!

August 31st, 2012
8:58 pm

Yea, Al is foul prone, injure prone, allergic to defense, and has become un-tradeable.

Roger that!!

August 31st, 2012
9:10 pm

Who was that scrub center on the hawks that committed SEVEN (7) tunovers in one (1) game and cost the hawks the playoffs this year?

oOhh, That would be Al ” I refuse to play defense under the basket”, horford.

Otis

August 31st, 2012
9:13 pm

Enter your comments here

Sautee

August 31st, 2012
9:15 pm

Well, good evening, T-s. Have you found those links yet?

I guess not, lol, since they don’t exist.

O’Brien showed you how easy it is to link to a real story of a trade proposal. Strange that a Google search only finds rumors, and conjecture. But I’m just sure that you’ll be able to find just one link to a story of Horford being turned down by a GM. Just one. Piece of cake, right?

I hope you find the links. O’Brien wants to read those stories like I do. You wouldn’t want to disappoint your fellow bloggers, now would you?

steven a smith

August 31st, 2012
9:17 pm

Roger that!!

August 31st, 2012
8:58 pm

Ditto! Well said Roger that!

Otis

August 31st, 2012
9:20 pm

I am so tired of trying to defend Al horford to I sat out of this site most of the year. I just shook my head watching the hawks play so much better with out Al.

I cant defend Al any longer he has had ample enough time to deliver and has failed. Many times he did not try. I will no longer do like Sautee and Ken. I will not twist facts or ignore truths to help; Al horford.

Sorry Ken, Sauitee. I agree. Al is whats holding this team back. We cant even trade Al.

Al is the new Marvin William. Id like to see Danny Ferry pull off a Al Horford Trade. Looks like he tried this summer but couldnt find any takers.

I cant say I blame the other teams. They are not stupid. Al is the new Marvin William. We cant trade him so we are stuck with him. SMH

Al is the new Marvin Williams

Sautee

August 31st, 2012
9:27 pm

Hey Otis, if you are going to accuse me of twisting facts, then at least have the courage to stand up and say exactly which facts I’ve twisted, and how.

So tell me…

Sautee

August 31st, 2012
9:28 pm

BTW, Otis = T-s.

As if we couldn’t tell, LOL.

Roger that!!

August 31st, 2012
9:28 pm

Well, good evening, T-s. Have you found those links yet?

do you mean the many many links of discussion on Hawks trade offers involving Al Horford the past 3 months that every one can google and find except the little deaf dumb and blind sautee sheep?

As in this google that has them listed but you cant seem to open…

http://www.google.com/search?q=Al+horford+trades+2012&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb

Roger that!!

August 31st, 2012
9:31 pm

Lets see Last week I was the honorable Steven A Smith, This week Im the Honorable Otis. Actually who ever calls out Al (the new Marvin Williams) for his s hit will be reduced to T. S.

Yea, we now How convenient for the Al horford nut smelling cult.

Mean While Back at the freaking Ranch Al is the New Marvin

Sautee

August 31st, 2012
9:35 pm

No, T-s, I want links to the stories that show your claim that 4 GMs have turned down a trade for Horford in the last 2 1/2 months, as you have repeatedly claimed. Yes, I found the conjecture, but not a single fact of a single GM “turning down” a Horford trade.

Your “link” only shows the rumors, and “trade ideas” from writers. Not a GM in any story mentions Horford. Not one. Nor is there any whiff of an actual trade proposal from the Hawks about him.

So why do you continue to lie about this? It’s very much like Dick Cheney and the WMDs.

pointguardslim

August 31st, 2012
9:39 pm

Wow
T-S is allowed but I’m not?

Sautee

August 31st, 2012
9:39 pm

“Lets see Last week I was the honorable Steven A Smith, This week Im the Honorable Otis. Actually who ever calls out Al (the new Marvin Williams) for his s hit will be reduced to T. S”

Maybe to some, but both steven a, and I told the blog that you were not the same people. And that Oits post WAS you, you tricky devil.

Besides I don’t think that someone becoming T-s “reduces” them in any way. Think more highly of yourself. ;-)

pointguardslim

August 31st, 2012
9:40 pm

Oh wow, well maybe it was a 1 day ban then. Carry on acting crazy guys.

Otis

August 31st, 2012
11:13 pm

I dont know if you know me or remember me. I was one of the biggest horford Fans when He got here. But I having to admit the guys on this site are right. Horford has peaked and he is not much better than he was when he got here. He is a very ordinary player who has disappointed me too much. I cant defend him any more. Hes a bust. or at the least he is like Marvin Williams, both are underachievers I expected more from Al .

Beer Belly Stan

September 1st, 2012
12:15 am

I would not trade Al for just any body. But then again we’d be lucky to get some thing for him.

Beer Belly Stan

September 1st, 2012
12:16 am

We got to take what we can get.

Roger That!!

September 1st, 2012
12:23 am

Heres another of the Sautee denied trade winds featuring Al Horford.

NBA Draft Rumors: Bobcats-Hawks Trade Could Include Al Horford, Thomas Robinson

Jun 28 8:06a by Matt Conner

Read More: Al Horford (C – ATL), Charlotte Bobcats, Atlanta Hawks

David Thorpe has the latest trade possibility for NBA fans to consider and it’s one that could directly affect the very top of tonight’s NBA Draft. The Charlotte Bobcats have been looking to move the No. 2 pick in the overall order, and even said so publicly through new head coach Mike Dunlap. They might have a partner in the Atlanta Hawks.

Specifically the ESPN NBA analyst believes that Thomas Robinson could be a good substitute for Al Horford down low for Atlanta — giving them a far cheaper player and the ability to use that money elsewhere.

“Enter Horford. He immediately improves the Bobcats on both ends of the floor. He becomes their best player, the face of the franchise and an excellent recruiter on the free-agent front,” writes Thorpe. “The Hawks then could grab Robinson and use him the way they use Horford (Robinson is very comparable to Horford). I don’t expect Robinson to ever be as good as Horford — who is probably the most underrated player in the league — but he certainly could end up getting there, or close to that level.”

That’s a new possibility for Robinson, who is often mentioned to the Bobcats or Kings at the top of the draft. Robinson averaged nearly 18 points and 12 rebounds per game last year for the Kansas Jayhawks.

For more on Kansas Basketball check out Rock Chalk Talk. For more college basketball news and notes head over to SB Nation’s College Basketball page.

Beer Belly Stan

September 1st, 2012
12:54 am

See. Thats what I mean We have to get something for Al. We got Devin Harris for Marvin. We could get Javale McGee for Al

pointguardslim

September 1st, 2012
1:08 am

Every time I troll I get blocked but Sautee and T.S. troll all the time and they dont get caught. I dont think its fair that Sautee gets to troll as much as he does. So does T.S. but you guys block me.

Why stop me from Trolling?

Grandad

September 1st, 2012
1:52 am

Slimjr

Yessir;
I realize the set shot from the `50s is no longer a viable option.

I also realize the difference between a catch and shoot jumper
-&-
a 1950 set shot.

My remark on accuracy was mostly comic relief.

Evenin` Slim;
Go Dawgs

Ken Strickland

September 1st, 2012
8:02 am

Anyone with as much as an ounce of intelligence can read the 12:23am post and see the Bobcats were head over heels about trading for Horford. That article totally contradicts the moronic idea that they didn’t what to trade for him. It also contradicts the MORONIC idea that he’s a scrubb. or liability, and proves it was the Hawks who refused to bite on the idea.

SAUTEE-After all this time searching the net trying to find something that can present to satisfy your repeated and long standing requests for some documentation to support his stupid assumptions and outright lies, he finally comes up with this. And to prove just how stupid he is, he shoots himself in the foot by presenting something that actually proves everything he’s claimed is totally wrong. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES, STUPID. YOU CAN LEAD A JACKASS TO WATER, BUT YOU CAN’T MAKE HIM THINK.

Ken Strickland

September 1st, 2012
8:23 am

GRANDAD-Don’t sweat the ignorance that some thrive on. Being critical of the way a player shoots him shot, rather than the results, shows a total lack of common sense. It’s like having an Olympic runner train and run as hard as he can only to come in last. And instead of awarding the Gold Medal to the winner based on results, they award it to the last place finisher based on his effort.

People who simply didn’t know any better were critical of the jump shooting technique of Reggie Miller, Jamal Wilks, World B Free, Vinnie Johnson, and George Gervin, Dick Barnett, and Rick Berry(free throws)to name a few. But intelligent fans looked at the results, and we’re obviously dealing with someone that doesn’t fall within the latter category.

steven a smith

September 1st, 2012
8:40 am

“Climt Eastwood is now officially an IDOT” Eastwood probably beleives Al Horford is an ELITE center!!!

steven a smith

September 1st, 2012
8:46 am

Correction! IDIOT. Clint Eastwood is now officially an Idoit! Clint probably believes that Al is a top 10 Center…

steven a smith

September 1st, 2012
8:59 am

IF Mitt Romney will turn the United States Of America around, then Al Horford will lead the Atlanta Hawks to an NBA Championship! and i will officially retire from Blogging.

steven a smith

September 1st, 2012
9:44 am

Leaning toward the upside of Detroit’s Austin Daye 6″9″.75(without shoes). A guy who may grow into the role of Adequate scorer and Defensive Stopper. He may be our long term answer at the 3 or 4.

Roger That!!

September 1st, 2012
9:50 am

Yea BB Stan, I could appreciate a JaVale McGee protecting the rim over Al ’s All NBA escort service. We may lose 3 or 4 points offensively until JaVale develops but defensively that a very significant upgrade over Al’s escort service and Javale hasn’t begun to develop his skill sets. He will only get better.

On the word going around that Al Horford is the New Marvin Williams, Well we tried and tried to trade Marvin and finally pay dirt with Harris an upgrade over Teague in the back court. Good Move. This hasnt been easy to find a taker for Al this summer. The reports are showing that the Hawks tried. I think Super Danny will be able to get us something at the opening of the season.

Go Hawks

Roger That!!

September 1st, 2012
9:53 am

*and Javale hasn’t begun to develop his Offensive skill sets. He will only get better. Defensively he does any team a good service By owning and protecting the Post.

Grandad

September 1st, 2012
9:58 am

Slimjr I have not participated in Sandusky’s acts. I have friends and I cant be responsible for whether they get caught or not.

Whats significant is I did not get caught

doing any thing.

There is no reason not to trust me around your little boys.

OK?

steven a smith

September 1st, 2012
9:58 am

Roger That!!

September 1st, 2012
9:53 am

Absolutely agree with you. Javale has “tremendous” upside! Al Horford has no upside left, Al Horford has peaked. This is as good as it gets with Al!

steven a smith

September 1st, 2012
10:03 am

Ken Strickland and Al Horford may be one and the same??? I can not see any other reason why any one would suugest that an 11.0pt/8rebound playoff average is worthy of an All-star appearance!!!

steven a smith

September 1st, 2012
10:05 am

Ray Ray down at the YMCA can give the Atlanta Hawks the same production, or more, than Al Horford,( ‘If not for his probation and felony arrests,”)

Ken Strickland

September 1st, 2012
10:08 am

Like I said earlier, All these damn trade rumors and press reports about Al being shopped is wrong. Sautee and I will continue to deny it even After Al is traded you anal minded MORONIC A S S HOLE YOU ARE ARE LIABILITY TO OUR DEFENSE OF AL !!!

And to prove just how stupid he is THIS ANAL MINDED MORON JACKASS IS no press is in the conference room when the trade discussions took place and there is no way any GM is going to make any talk details known public,, he shoots himself in the foot by presenting something that can not be prove so it just goes to show STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES, STUPID. YOU CAN LEAD A JACKASS TO WATER, BUT YOU CAN’T MAKE HIM THINK.- (i thunk that up by myself sautee)

And 1 more thing, Al is not the new Marvin and you cant prove that either. A s s hole

I – HEART – Al Horford :)

steven a smith

September 1st, 2012
10:22 am

Otis

August 31st, 2012
9:20 pm

I absolutely agree with this post. Otis, my man, you are spot on. You nailed it! You hit the proverbial “nail on the head” if you will. Al Horford is the new “Marvin”. Next season, Al will make 13million dollars. Just 4million less than Lebron James. Are you kidding me??? If Al makes 13million. then lebron should make 39million!!!!!!!!!

D12

September 1st, 2012
10:22 am

NBA Draft Rumors: Bobcats-Hawks Trade Could Include Al Horford …
kansascity.sbnation.com/…jayhawks/…/nba-draft-rumors-bobcats-ha…
NBA Draft Rumors: Bobcats-Hawks Trade Could Include Al Horford, Thomas Robinson. Jun 28 8:06a by Matt Conner. Read More: Al Horford (C – ATL), Charlotte

Jimmy Mack

September 1st, 2012
10:23 am

TO MICHAEL CUNNINGHAM:

IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE MULTIPLE BLOGS? ONE FOR THE EXPERTS INSULTING EACH OTHER(KEN STRICKLAND, ROD FROM CP, SAUTEE, ETC) AND ONE FOR THE “REAL FAN” (THE ONES WHO WOULD LIKE TO READ BEHIND THE SCENE INFO AND DON’T TAKE THIS BLOG AS A JOB).

D12

September 1st, 2012
10:25 am

Horford may return to Florida if Howard returns to Atlanta | Gators …
progators.blogs.gatorsports.com/…/horford-may-be-back-in-florida-…
Jul 4, 2012 – The Atlanta Hawks are said to be “in the mix” for Magic center Dwight Howard. Al Horford was rumored to be a trading piece for the superstar …

Jimmy Mack

September 1st, 2012
10:27 am

Expert Trolls like me, sautee and Ken Strickland need to be able to cup Al’s nuts expertly. Can you help us?

US news & World reporte

September 1st, 2012
10:35 am

Time For The Hawks To Turn The Page? « NBA.com | Hang Time Blog
hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/…/time-for-the-hawks-to-turn-the-pag…
May 7, 2012 – The pieces that should go are Horford and Marvin in a trade. Josh has proven this year how expendable Al Horford is to this franchise. Josh has …

Ken Strickland

September 1st, 2012
10:39 am

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1315305-breaking-down-how-lou-williams-will-thrive-with-atlanta-hawks

This is a must read about LWilliams and how our backcourt will function effectively as a rotation. It’s also informative reading for those who still feel we don’t have anyone to take the big shots in JJs absence.

Roger That !!!

September 1st, 2012
10:41 am

Co-signing

TO MICHAEL CUNNINGHAM:

IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE MULTIPLE BLOGS? ONE FOR THE EXPERTS INSULTING EACH OTHER(KEN STRICKLAND, ROD FROM CP, SAUTEE, ETC) AND ONE FOR THE “REAL FAN” (THE ONES WHO WOULD LIKE TO READ BEHIND THE SCENE INFO AND DON’T TAKE THIS BLOG AS A JOB).

Dept. Of Unintended Irony

September 1st, 2012
10:43 am

“Correction! IDIOT. Clint Eastwood is now officially an Idoit! Clint probably believes that Al is a top 10 Center…”

So is an idoit a new Mac product? LMFAO. No irony quite like a misspelled insult.

Sautee

September 1st, 2012
11:01 am

T-s,

Maybe you are turning a new leaf.

Why just night before last, you showed us all how Horford’s best season measured up to Josh’s career numbers which you call “championship caliber”. That is, without meaning to, you acknowledged Horford’s 2010-11 season to be “championship caliber”.

And now in your attempt to convince the blog that “Horford was turned down by 4 GMs in the last 2 1/2 months” – (your words) you repost a story which IN IT’S VERY FIRST SENTENCE says that it is a “trade possibility”. Not a trade offer. Not a trade proposal. It’s a writer filling space with his conjecture.

But here’s the good part. Within his discussion David Aldridge says this: “I don’t expect Robinson to ever be as good as Horford — who is probably the most underrated player in the league — but he certainly could end up getting there, or close to that level.”

So, there you go T-s, giving credibility to the idea that Horford is the most underrated player in the league. Whooda thunk it?

I’m glad to see that you have begun to turn around. ;-)

wordsmithtom

September 1st, 2012
11:28 am

Ken, good post on Lou W. Agree with you that Hawks guard play should be much better this year. One more trade to make, once the holding period expires on the players obtained in the earlier trades. Need another bench big, IMHO. Having too many shooters is a luxury, for once.

Benjeman

September 1st, 2012
12:27 pm

championship calibre 12pts 9 rbs

Benjeman

September 1st, 2012
12:28 pm

a pig with lipstick is still a pig.

Al Horford is the new Marvin Williams

sam'l

September 1st, 2012
12:43 pm

Um guys, when we start our first losing streak, we will probably need each other’s support…….

steven a smith

September 1st, 2012
1:07 pm

Benjeman

September 1st, 2012
12:28 pm

a pig with lipstick is still a pig.

Al Horford is the new Marvin Williams

Ditto!!! We need to start a “Trade Al Horford Movement” with signatures or something. First there was Al Harrington, then Joe and Marvn, Now Al “new Marvin” Horford. and trade the Al Horford fan club as well. President and CEO of the Al Fan Club=Ken “clueless” Strickland.

Ken Strickland

September 1st, 2012
1:10 pm

WORDSMITHTOM-I agree, especially if we go with the frontline I suggested of Josh, Zaza and Horford. Right now, the only Bigs we know will be in camp are JWilliams, JPetro, and maybe KBenson, assuming none of them are included in a trade.

I don’t see Teague and Harris battling for the starting PG position. They will both start, which will give us the best OFF and DEF backcourt we can put on the floor. Their collective speed, quickness, athleticism, passing and ball handling ability, along with their respectable 3pt shooting, will give us a definite advantage against most backcourts.

Having 2 starting PGs with the ability to consistently penetrate and dish will definitely make life a lot easier for our frontline players. Having a backcourt with that kind of speed and quickness will definitely make it much easier to facilitate an effective help DEF. With LWilliams, we now have the kind of scorer we thought we had in Jordan Crawford.

With Horford and Josh on the wings, we’ll have solid help DEF along the frontline as well. Adding Ivan to the mix makes it even better. Josh at SF compared to JJ will actually give us an overall advantage, except for outside shooting. Otherwise, he’ll give us more blocks, steals, deflections, almost as many assists, just as many PTS, and more than double the rebounds we got from JJ.

The Horford, Zaza, Josh frontline would end up putting our 3 best and biggest interior players at the positions they are best suited for. We know how easily Josh can prepare himself, both physically and mentally, for whatever position he’s asked to play. How many SFs can anyone name that can match his combination of size, athleticism, and strength?

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

September 1st, 2012
1:53 pm

Lou Williams and Bow Wow single release party at Life Nightclub tonight.

O'Brien

September 1st, 2012
2:21 pm

Slimjr,

If I saw All NBA start bringing up the ball with his one handed dribble and totally ignore my point guard, his azz is sitting on the bench next to me…

We do not need a point 5…..C’mon man[Larry]!.

We don’t need a point 4 either, but for some reason, LD is ok with Josh and Al bringing the ball up. I don’t know why.

O'Brien

September 1st, 2012
2:22 pm

Roger that!

Yea, Al is foul prone, injure prone,.

Prior to this year, Al played in 92% of the Hawks games. But you call that injury prone? And you wonder why you have no credibility on this blog. Because nothing you say is supported by facts,just opinions and rumors.

O'Brien

September 1st, 2012
2:23 pm

Steven A Smith,

Clint probably believes that Al is a top 10 Center….

In your opinion, please list 10 centers that you believe are better than Al.

Leaning toward the upside of Detroit’s Austin Daye 6″9″.75(without shoes). A guy who may grow into the role of Adequate scorer and Defensive Stopper. He may be our long term answer at the 3 or 4..

I think Daye could be our answer at SF, especially if Detroit will take one of our SGs in a trade.

river king

September 1st, 2012
3:33 pm

I agree. Al gets injured when the season is on the line. Like that playoff series where he ripped an ankle out of socket to keep from playing. We lost that series too. Thanks Al.

Last year Al detached a chest muscle while trying to catch a simple rebound….That mother fcker sat out the whole damn season only to come back to pick up a playoff check while committing 7 turnovers in one game, wasting the hard work and effort off Josh, Zaza and Ivan.

That Mother fcking Al’s 7 turnovers cost us the season. He could have kept his sorry as s on the bench for that s hit.

No wonder we cant trade Al No team is going to put up with that s hit. How in the Hell can your center commit 7 fcking turnovers when they arent suppose to dribble the ball Horford apologist?

How in the fck can your center turn the ball over 7 times in a pivot playoff game when his sorry as s is supposed to be right under the basket?

Yeah, Im on board, Al Horford is the new Marvin Williams.

river king

September 1st, 2012
3:40 pm

“but for some reason, LD is ok with Josh and Al bringing the ball up. I don’t know why.”

He should be. Josh finishes a very high percent of his breaks and has a very good turnover to assist ratio. Idiot. Josh should handle the ball.

Marvin Horford is a turnover waiting to happen. Hes clumsy awkward and has very limited offensive skills. He should have his butt standing right near the basket at all times, that is when he is allowed to play. Id rather have Ivan on a break with Josh and Harris than Marvin Horford.

Let Marvin Horford come off the bench and let Zaza start until we trade Al and can find a real center

Javale McGee is better than Al

Sautee

September 1st, 2012
3:48 pm

As O’Brien posted earlier:

“In 2010, Dwight Howard averaged 4 turnovers per game. In fact, he had games in which he had 6 turnovers against Utah, 6 turnovers against Detroit, 6 turnovers against Atlanta (in 2 different games), 7 turnovers against Cleveland, 7 turnovers against Memphis, 6 turnovers against the Lakers, 7 turnovers against Chicago, and 9 turnovers against the Lakers.”

“Yeah, Dwight Howard must really suck to have all those turnovers.”

LMFAO. The player most say is the best center in the game has MULTIPLE GAMES with more turnovers than Al had in Game 6.

So, T-s, if multiple turnovers makes one a poor center, then what do you think of D12s multiple turnover games? Is he a poor center as well?

LMFAO.

Sautee

September 1st, 2012
4:04 pm

“Josh finishes a very high percent of his breaks and has a very good turnover to assist ratio” – T-s

“Marvin Horford is a turnover waiting to happen.” – T-s

Here’s to keeping it real:

Josh career A / TO ratio: 1.25:1

Al career A / TO ratio: 1.52:1

Funny how Horford is a “turnover waiting to happen” with a better ratio than Josh.

Hey, T-s, if you think Josh has a “very good turnover to assist ratio” at 1.25 assists to every TO, then what must you think of Horford’s ratio of 1.52 assists to every TO?

By the way, I wonder who led the league in A/TO ratio for centers in 2011?

Oh yeah, it was Al Horford. One of 7 categories in which he was in the top 5 centers in the league.

An inconvenient fact for some.

Sautee

September 1st, 2012
4:10 pm

And T-s, notice that I only brought Josh into this AFTER you did. I’m not one of those who likes one OR the other. I’m a fan of BOTH.

They are both Hawks players, so I cheer for both equally. Along with the rest of the roster.

Buddy Grizzard

September 1st, 2012
4:33 pm

“Al is foul prone”

Why do you guys keep chatting on this blog with people who know nothing about basketball? Al for his career has one of the lowest foul rates for any power rotation player.

Sautee

September 1st, 2012
4:34 pm

the only thing I left out was that josh handled that ball 4 times as much as Al so my stat is really irrelevant

but any thing I can do to help al break his mavin complex im for it

Sautee

September 1st, 2012
4:36 pm

Why do you guys keep chatting on this blog with people who know nothing about basketball?

You are right ..FROM NOW FORWARD PLEASE NO ONE TALK TO IDIOT BUTT GIZZARD

Sautee

September 1st, 2012
4:43 pm

So, T-s, if multiple turnovers makes one a poor center, then what do you think of D12s multiple turnover games? Is he a poor center as well?

again i live in a denial world and post the most idiotic stats D12 is triple teamed almost always. Al only draws flys so I can see d12 having a 6 turn night. (incidentally notice i had to go back to 2010 and to make Marvin Horford look decent i have to quote from his one average year. If you see me quoting more irrelevant stats dont be surprised.

Sautee

September 1st, 2012
4:45 pm

T-s, why are you posting as me at 4:34 and 4:36?

Are you threatened by the knowledge I’m bringing?

It just seems that if you are so sure of your arguments, that you wouldn’t need to try and bring down those who disagree by stealing their handles and posting things they would not.

Maybe you’re not so sure of those arguments.

Roger That !!!

September 1st, 2012
5:11 pm

Sautee I would not have to do that to make you see how ignorant you are. You intentionally miss the points and to defend Marvin Horford.

The 7 turnover point about Al was that he ruined the whole season by producing that funk in the playoff on a pivot game and ended the heart filled and hard work of Zaza Ivan and Smoove.

That was the point.

You took that and twisted it to make a comparison to Josh to help Marvin Horfords name be mentioned with the excellent work of Josh.

Then you tried to act as if Marvin Horford handles the ball as much as Josh or D12 and he doesnt. D12 is tripled constantly, Josh is doubled and is the point forward on this team.

So Josh and D12 are the stars they are because the teams offense pivots around these guys

Now heres a more accurate comparison:

Who is the greater disappointment to the fans? Mavin Williams , Jon Koncak or Al Horford.

I vote Marvin because he was a # 2 pick and then Al because he hasnt produced very much and is not a really good asset. Jon Koncak was never really good or expected to be great. He was just well over paid. Kind of Like Al horford.

So which of those three do you think is the biggest non producer Jon Koncak, Marvin Williams or Jon Koncak?

Roger That !!!

September 1st, 2012
5:13 pm

*So which of those three do you think is the biggest non producer Jon Koncak, Marvin Williams or Al Koncak?

Sautee

September 1st, 2012
5:33 pm

Nice try, T-s.

But here’s the thing about assist to turnover ratio: It’s a ratio.

A ratio is a ratio whether for 5 minutes per game or 40 minutes per game. It’s a ratio.

A ratio is a ratio whether for 15 touches per game, or for 60 touches per game. It’s a ratio.

The A/TO ratio measures the number of assists against the number of turnovers. It measures your ball security. Number of touches doesn’t matter with a ratio. It’s STILL a ratio. No more, no less.

Ken Strickland

September 1st, 2012
7:11 pm

IGNORANCE is a commodity that every human possesses, and is usually the result of a lack of exposure or access to knowledge. When one is granted access and/or exposure to knowledge, yet steadfastly rejects or refuses to accept it, then that’s called STUPIDITY.

When they continuously reject or refuse to accept that knowledge, no matter how many times or different ways it’s presented, and they hide their DELUSIONAL BS by using multiple names, yet continuously repeat the same STUPID DELUSIONAL BS over and over, then that’s called EMOTIONALLY DISTURBED, or INSANE. We definitely have at least 1 or 2 who fit this definition on these blogs.

We’ve all seen children who crave attention, and love being around other children, but no one wants to be around them because they are psychologically damaged and just don’t know how to act. We’re seeing more and more of that type of mental deficiency being played out daily on these blogs by STEVEN A SMITH, and all of the various TS manifestations.

Only an extremely sick and immature mind could consistently derive any pleasure or satisfaction out of such a childish endeavor. It’s been said that there’s a thin line between genius and insanity, but these insane morons prove that’s NOT always the case. They’re truely insane, but they’re also dumber than 2 dead gnats.

Why Johnny cant read

September 1st, 2012
10:05 pm

“But here’s the thing about assist to turnover ratio: It’s a ratio.”

What the hell does that have to do with this statement?

The 7 turnover point about Al was that he ruined the whole season by producing that funk in the playoff on a pivot game and ended the heart filled and hard work of Zaza Ivan and Smoove.

Some people just dont get it. Actually they do but they just chose to ignore it because they have no answer.

It would have been easier to say ” hey yeah, Al fcked up; again.”

Why Johnny cant read

September 1st, 2012
10:09 pm

Al committed 7 turnovers I a pivotal playoff game costing the hawks the season and ruining the heart filled and hard work of Zaza Ivan and Smoove.

To which sautee replied

“Nice try, T-s.

But here’s the thing about assist to turnover ratio: It’s a ratio.

A ratio is a ratio whether for 5 minutes per game or 40 minutes per game. It’s a ratio.”

See why Johnny cant read?

Ken Strickland

September 1st, 2012
10:17 pm

IGNORANCE is a commodity that every human possesses, that’s called STUPIDITY.
+ you are an anal minded moron
When they continuously reject or refuse to accept that knowledge, no matter how many times or different ways it’s presented, and they hide their DELUSIONAL BS by using multiple names, yet continuously repeat the same STUPID DELUSIONAL BS over and over, then that’s called EMOTIONALLY DISTURBED, or INSANE. We definitely have at least 1 or 2 who fit this definition on these blogs. because they are psychologically damaged and just don’t know how to act. We’re seeing more and more of that type of mental deficiency being played out daily on these blogs by STEVEN A SMITH, and all of the various TS manifestations.

Only an extremely sick and immature mind could consistently derive any pleasure or satisfaction out of such a childish endeavor. It’s been said that there’s a thin line between genius and insanity, you anal minded moron. as s holes only sautee and I are geniuses the rest of you are truely insane, but they’re also dumber than 2 dead gnats.That is TS and Steven A. Smith and any other Anal minded as s hole moron psycho muther fcker who is not a fan of Al horford Fck you. Get some help you sick anal minded MORONS!!!!!!

and another thing go see a psycho doctor like me As s hole. Me and Sautee are the only smart ones and we are Al horford fans right Sautee?

Why Johnny cant read

September 1st, 2012
10:19 pm

*Al committed 7 turnovers in a pivotal playoff game costing the hawks the season and ruining the heart filled and hard work of Zaza Ivan and Smoove

Buddy Grizzard

September 1st, 2012
10:37 pm

Ivan Johnson DNP CD in Game 6? What hard work? Know anything about basketball?

Also, posted this yesterday for fun:

http://repatl.blogspot.com/2012/08/fun-with-lists-comparing-stats-and-eye.html

Ball Handlers Gazette.

September 1st, 2012
10:54 pm

“A ratio is a ratio whether for 5 minutes per game or 40 minutes per game. It’s a ratio.”

Who is the idiot that said that? Ratio’s like A/TO are impacted by the number of controlled touches not by time. If I handle the ball a hundred times as opposed to 3 or 4 times that then has a significant Impact. Its not a metric whose value is based on quantity. of opportunity not how long you played the game.

This is an uneducated blog page where people post stats that arent relevant to the issues.

Buddy Grizzard

September 1st, 2012
10:58 pm

Oh and let’s talk about Josh’s “hard work” in game 6 that included 3-for-11 shooting on jumpers. But he really broke a sweat tossing up all those bricks. Meanwhile Horford shot 6-for-9. He had 9 fewer shot attempts than Josh and scored only 3 fewer points. Also, Horford was one of only two starters with a positive +/- in Game 6. That means the Hawks outscored Boston while Horford was on the floor, in spite of his 7 turnovers. Josh was a team-worst -9.

#hardwork

Buddy Grizzard

September 1st, 2012
11:00 pm

Al Horford with 5 4th-quarter baskets in Game 6.

Josh Smith? 1

Joe Johnson? 0

#hardwork

Buddy Grizzard

September 1st, 2012
11:02 pm

Hawks lost Game 6 by 3 points. Josh cost the Hawks a point with a stupid tech while he was at the scorer’s table, not even in the game. Then he allowed Garnett to hit an uncontested jumper because he was arguing with refs and didn’t run back on defense.

#hardwork

MsDee

September 1st, 2012
11:16 pm

Ready for the season to start already!! Cant wait to see Horford prove his haters wrong this season!!

Buddy Grizzard

September 1st, 2012
11:30 pm

You see I think the only way to lift Al from his s hit is to tear Josh down.

Now who has the fattest dick I can suck?

Casey

September 2nd, 2012
1:41 am

Man! What a bunch of loud mouth morons! You people think you know something about basketball. You know absolutely NOTHING! The team we have to beat to get to the Finals, obviously, is Miami. Do you really want to tell me that Joel Anthony is a better center than Pachulia or Horford? It really doesn’t mean $HIT who plays center or who plays SF or PF. To beat Miami you have to play 5 on 5, team defense. You have to be able to score and rebound as a TEAM. Right now, the best 5 guys we can put out there include Josh Smith, Horford, and Pachulia. So, we put those guys out there. It doesn’t matter whether you call Josh a SF or Al a PF or Pachulia a PG. The important thing is who do they match up against on the other team. I could give a rat’s a$$ who guards Joel Anthony. We have to stop Wade, Lebron, and Bosh.

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

September 2nd, 2012
2:17 am

Braves collapsing again. Falcons can’t win in the postseason. Hawks are the only team in Atlanta worth a dam.

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

September 2nd, 2012
2:19 am

BIG IVAN FOR PRESIDENT

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

September 2nd, 2012
2:40 am

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

September 2nd, 2012
2:53 am

IF BIG IVAN AIN’T ON THE HAWKS ROSTER THIS YEAR I’M RETIRING AS A HAWKS FAN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrjjjT5p27o

Just Joe

September 2nd, 2012
7:40 am

Going back and looking at the 2010/11 season, only one 5-man unit including Josh, Al, and ZaZa was among our top-20 most effective. Those 3 plus Joe and Jamal was our 19th best lineup in terms of efficiency. Why would it work now if we substitute Teague and Harris for Joe and Jamal?

Slimjr

September 2nd, 2012
8:15 am

World Wide Clyde,this is what they [The Professional Sports Franchises] do in Atlanta..

155 combined seasons and just one lone Championship..

Thank you David Justice for being one the the best Clutch power hitters ever for the Braves..

BTW, the Fal-cons are 3-9 the [past three preseasons]. 4-10 against the winners the [past two seasons]! Hmmm. See a pattern? Hmmmm

They are pretenders for real…

If they lose another playoff game,[which is a good bet] Ryan and Coach Smith have got to go..No more excuses.

Hawks are going to be tested for sure in the 1st two weeks with 5 road games in the 1st 8 games..

5-3 would be awesome..

Slimjr

September 2nd, 2012
8:29 am

O’Brien, when your starting Center is avg less than 3 fouls per game in the regular season that can be interpreted as not doing a good job of defending the paint? Especially when teams are attacking the interior of the “D”.

BTW, w/o All NBA, the Hawks were ranked 6th in overall defense..

Slimjr

September 2nd, 2012
8:40 am

This guy struggles against people like Noah, Bass,D12, Gotat, D12, Herbert, Bynum, KG, Boozer, Gasol …

Yea Larry needs to continue to protect him as [Just Joe] alluded to a couple of days ago O’Brien.

Ken Strickland

September 2nd, 2012
9:04 am

SLIMJR-They were also without Bibby and Jamal, 2 one dimensional guards who were responsible for us having one of the NBAs most pourous perimeter DEFs. It’s just like Denver, who managed to improve defensively after getting rid of starting OC MCamby, who was voted the NBA DPOY after leading the NBA in rebounding and blocked shots.

They managed to improve defensively without Camby’s DEF presence because they plugged that big black hole in their perimeter DEF by replacing high scoring NO DEF AIverson with CBillups. We did the same thing by replacing Bibby and Jamal with Teague and Hinrich. You’d be surprised how easy it is to come up with these facts if you’d just do a little research and try to raise your basketball IQ.

BUDDY GRIZZARD-NOW THAT’S HOW TO CARVE A TURKEY! Usually, when you carve that turkey with facts, and hit the bone, he responds by attacking under different names. He usually posts stupid BS under the name of the person producing the facts. What’s really odd, and truely sick, is what he always says when he attacks while using the person’s name.

He almost always uses some vile sexual reference, like the last BUDDY GRIZZARD post above, or he call’s them gay. To him, that’s the worst possible insult, which means he’s likely had more than a few of the experiences he so often references, and is himself a closet gay that’s deep in denial. Self hatred combined with extreme self denial must be a bitch to deal with, so he lashes out.

Ken Strickland

September 2nd, 2012
9:21 am

I am soooo glad HORFORD HATERS are so obsessed with the idea of us needing to get rid of him. They deserve their unhappiness, dissatisfaction and/or misery. He’s definitely here to stay, which means their misery and unhappines will continue.

If by some miracle we end up signing DHoward or ABynum, I’m sure both players know which player, between Horford and Josh, would take the most pressure off of them. Teams definitely wouldn’t drop Horford’s defender off on Howard, because of his deadly efficient and accurate midrange jumper. But with Josh, they’d gladly drop a defender back and beg him to shoot until the air is out of the ball. DEFs have routinely done this since he 1st entered the league.

Sautee

September 2nd, 2012
10:44 am

T-s,

Perhaps willfully, you missed the point of my “ratio” post. You had tried to demean the A/TO stat because, as you said, Josh and D12 handled the ball more than Horford. Here’s your quote:

“Then you tried to act as if Marvin Horford handles the ball as much as Josh or D12 and he doesnt. D12 is tripled constantly, Josh is doubled and is the point forward on this team.” -T-s

To which I showed you that for that particular stat, volume did not matter. To which you said this:

“Ratio’s like A/TO are impacted by the number of controlled touches not by time. If I handle the ball a hundred times as opposed to 3 or 4 times that then has a significant Impact.” – T-s

Yeah, and that TOTALLY explains how CP3 had the second best A/TO ratio in the league. We ALL know that he gets very few touches, right?

Sorry, T-s, but you got this one wrong. A ratio is just a ratio. Quantity doesn’t change the ratio.

Sautee

September 2nd, 2012
10:54 am

“O’Brien, when your starting Center is avg less than 3 fouls per game in the regular season that can be interpreted as not doing a good job of defending the paint?” – slimjr

Bill Russell: career fouls: 2.7 / gm.
Hakeem Olajuwon: career fouls: 2.6 / gm.
Dikembe Mutombo: career fouls: 2.8 / gm.
Tim Duncan: career fouls: 2.5 / gm.

Do you get my point, or shall I list some more?

Slimjr

September 2nd, 2012
12:15 pm

And? ^^^^^^

Those four listed above were far better help defenders than AL..In fact the it’s no contest….

You know what you can do with those nimbers? Yes….

Slimjr

September 2nd, 2012
12:17 pm

Yes Larry keep protecting…Greyhound leaves on the hour…

Slimjr

September 2nd, 2012
12:21 pm

SLIMJR-They were also without Bibby and Jamal, 2 one dimensional guards who were responsible for us having one of the NBAs most pourous perimeter DEFs -Ken-

Agree, Bibby was absolutely atrocious on the perimeter. Glad to see him long gone..

Slimjr

September 2nd, 2012
12:58 pm

“It’s just like Denver, who managed to improve defensively after getting rid of starting OC MCamby, who was voted the NBA DPOY after leading the NBA in rebounding and blocked shots.

They managed to improve defensively without Camby’s DEF presence because they plugged that big black hole in their perimeter DEF by replacing high scoring NO DEF AIverson with CBillups”

Yes agree the Hawks did improve their perimeter defense with the addition of the Hinrich and starting Teague at the point.That does not take rocket science to figure out. In fact your point about what happened with Denver is solidified even further by me pointing out that the Hawks over-all defense improved to 6th best in the league without All NBA last season for two reasons..

Improved perimeter defense..

Improved [more physical play in the paint] with Zaza [foul prone] because of his physicality and Ivan for President!

Hmmmmm.
Thank you ..Your welcome..

Sautee

September 2nd, 2012
1:49 pm

slimjr,

So, obviously, you either didn’t GET my point, or you wanted to ignore it. You said:

“O’Brien, when your starting Center is avg less than 3 fouls per game in the regular season that can be interpreted as not doing a good job of defending the paint?” – slimjr

So tell me slim, does that not seem to indicate that you believe a starting center SHOULD have more fouls if they are doing a good job defending the paint?

Tell me just how I took that wrongly.

Also the fact that those rim defenders I listed are better help defenders than Horford is a moot point to this discussion. What was being discussed was whether or not rim defenders would have fewer or more than 3 fouls per game.

Ken Strickland

September 2nd, 2012
4:17 pm

If Ferry doesn’t do a trade and we have to go with what we now have, I think a starting lineup of Josh, Zaza, Horford, Harris and Teague, would be solid. A bench of Ivan, LWilliams, Korver, Morrow, Jenkins, Petro and JWilliams, or Benson, would be solid as well.

This would be a better team that last yrs. We wouldn’t have a bench full of injury prone, or over the hill players that are unable to play more than token mins, like Stackhouse, TMac, Dampier, and Collins. LWilliams, Korver and Morrow will most likely be far more productive than Pargo, Green, VRad, Stackhouse, and TMac combined. Petro should be more productive than Dampier and Collins.