Atlanta Hawks: Former coach Bob Weiss returns as adviser
Hawks GM Danny Ferry’s efforts to move the franchise’s player development program forward will include a reach back to the team’s past.
Former Hawks coach Bob Weiss is set to join Larry Drew’s staff as a coach and consultant. Weiss will be heavily involved in developing players and will sit behind the bench during games.
Drew said he had considered hiring an assistant with previous head coaching experience when he got the Hawks job in the summer of 2010.
“Somebody who could really watch and look at the big picture of the team, be that birdie on my shoulder as far as suggestions and ideals and what he sees,” Drew said. “I started interviewing and compiling a list of guys. I met with Bob for a second interview and I thought he was the perfect guy from a consultant standpoint.
“He will be sitting behind the bench, looking at things and giving me ideas and giving me opinions about different things with the team as a whole. I’ve always admired him from afar–didn’t know him personally–but watched from afar, even he when played. He has a wealth of knowledge.”
Weiss coached the Hawks from 1990-91 to ‘92-93 and also was head coach for the Spurs, Clippers and Sonics. He most recently was a head coach in the Chinese Basketball Association.
Weiss’ hiring is one of a few Hawks staff moves announced today.
Kenny Atkinson has officially been hired as an assistant coach. He’s a former Knicks assistant who earned notice when Jeremy Lin credited him with helping his development.
“Kenny came highly recommended as a guy who not only had experience as an assistant but also phenomenal player development guy,” Drew said. “I did a lot of research on him talked to a lot of people. I interviewed him a couple times and thought he was a great candidate to be that third assistant coach and a player development guy.”
Assistant coaches Kenny Gattison and Tyrone Hill will not return.
“I thought Kenny Gattison and Tyrone Hill did a really good job but, like with anything else, you are always looking to enhance what you have and try to make a situation you feel can help the ball club,” Drew said. “I felt it was time for a change.”
The Hawks hired Jeff Watkinson as the strength and conditioning coach. Watkinson worked at Indiana University before leaving in 2010 to take a job as Eric Gordon’s “personal development basketball coach.” Watkinson replaces Chattin Hill, who was with the Hawks for seven seasons.
Former Hawks GM Rick Sund, who has remained on staff during Ferry’s transition, will take on a new role as a senior adviser to the basketball operations. Sund’s duties will include scouting and he will split time between Atlanta and his permanent home in the Seattle area.
“Rick has been helpful during the changes and I think it’s a good situation to still have him available as a sounding board,” Ferry said.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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516 comments Add your comment
Just Joe
August 29th, 2012
12:30 pm
Swapping Devin Harris for an expiring player and a pick may be the only type trade we see.
Cleveland for Luke Walton and a pick. Cleveland has their own pick, the Heat’s pick, and the Kings’ pick (top 13 protected), and have the rights to swap any of those picks for the Lakers’ pick.
Milwaukee for Sam Dalembert.
Detroit with Stevenson for Maggette and a pick.
Astro Joe
August 29th, 2012
12:35 pm
vava, to the contrary, I think he is the perfect SF for our team. In our conference, we need a SF who will defend AND force the opposing SF to defend. Chandler plays bigger than his size and has some real “dog” in him (as opposed to a 3-legged rat). And, IMO, he has a GREAT contract. He is like a younger (and healthier) version of Caron Butler. I’m hoping that Denver keeps him until next summer because I personally doubt that they will want to have 3 wings making $7M+ and I would gladly take either Chandler or Gallinari off their hands (I’m not a big Iggy fan for our team).
Astro Joe
August 29th, 2012
12:52 pm
Just Joe, I think we need to maintain very good PG depth… so if we’re trading Devin Harris, we need to know that we have more than just Lou Williams (or a Brad Wanamaker type) playing 12+ minutes/game at PG.
steven a smith
August 29th, 2012
12:56 pm
brigadierjerry
August 29th, 2012
5:23 am
stephen a smith,
With this team as currently constituted, who exactly is taking Horford’s starting position so Horford can be put on the bench?
After trainig camp, I invision Keith Benson making this roster. I watched him play Summer League Basketball and knew right away that this guy has a future in someones rotation. He is allready a better shot blocker than all on the Hawks except Josh. I believe he is going to surprise much in the same way as Dominique Davis has for the Atlanta Falcons..
cdog
August 29th, 2012
2:08 pm
moves are favorable except the hiring of rick sund.don”t let him make no player decisions, he knows none.
Ken Strickland
August 29th, 2012
2:09 pm
STEVEN A SMITH-So, in using DDavis as an example of what you’d like to see done with AHorford, would you also suggest the Falcons bench QB MRyan and start Davis? And how much intelligence has to be missing for anyone to suggest we bench a 2 time All Star and All NBA center still approaching him prime for a player that impressed you during the SUMMER LEAGUE gms no less?
Judging from your trade and player suggestions, it’s painfully obvious you don’t know very much about basketball and have absolutely no idea about judging talent. However, you have to be given an A for effort. You remind me of a student that gets good grades for being the teachers pet, not for an ability to do the work.
Ken Strickland
August 29th, 2012
2:26 pm
If Cleveland can’t sign AGee before we’re able to include the players we’ve acquired in trades, I have a sneaky idea that DFerry might end up offering AGee a FA contract. That move might force Cleveland into doing a sign and trade with us, especially if Gee wants that. It could be like a mini version of the JJ sign and trade.
What separates Gee from all of the other SG/SF that are potentially available to us is his ability to play above average DEF at both positions. Defensively he can give us what JJ gave us, but with more speed, quickness, athleticism and endurance. I would be very interested in seeing how a starting lineup of PG JTeague, SG JJenkins, SF AGee, PF JSmith, and OC AHorford would do.
I believe this starting lineup would be better than last yrs.
Astro Joe
August 29th, 2012
2:31 pm
Strickland, Ferry can’t offer gee more than a minimum salary because the Hawks are over the salary cap. The only options we have to acquire a SF is to either trade for one or sign someone to a minimum-level contract. In theory, Ferry could trade Morrow to the Cavs for Gee, but that would likely require a long-term contract and remove some available cap space from next summer.
Astro Joe
August 29th, 2012
2:33 pm
And the above trade idea (Morrow for Gee) would require a S&T with the Cavs and I honestly don’t know if they need Morrow or any other disposable player on our roster.
Ra'mon
August 29th, 2012
2:58 pm
KenS, Your list for reasons of keeping Al over Josh is full of so many things not backed up by actual stats.
1-is just as good at rebounding, — Josh is actually a better rebounder than Al, but Josh has always be responsible for getting back on defense to hinder any fast break opportunities. So Al always have gotten more OPPORTUNITIES on the offensive boards.
2-can play OC and PF equally as effectively, – This is a false statement. I did the calculations (you can do them yourself if you like). In all of the games (not even including the playoffs) that Al played PF in 2010-2011 (season before he was injured), Al averaged a whopping 12 PPG and 7.6 RPG. This is at his ‘natural position’ that you claim. That sounds like all star numbers doesn’t it? And in the playoffs where Al started exclusively at the PF position – Al averaged 11.3 PPG and 9.6 RPG while shooting 42% from the field.
3-is a much more efficient and effective scorer, – You can not be considered an effective scorer if you can not create your own shot. And if when you’re at PF or C, you can’t do any better than averaging 12 ppg, that is not a ‘SCORER’. I’ve never known of an effective scorer who averaged 12 ppg.
4-is a much better option as a stretch 4, – A stretch 4? How are you a stretch 4 and only shoots 42% from the field in the playoffs at the 4 position? What are you stretching there? Also who was the last stretch 4 to win a title? (Dirk isn’t a stretch 4, he is a scorer that’s different). You don’t pay a stretch 4 $12 million a season.
5-is just as effective as a passer since he generates fewer turnovers- How is he an effective passer when he can’t facilitate for himself or others. There are assists that come in the frame of the offense. And assists that come making a play. Aside from the one regular season Chicago game, Al doesn’t make plays. Al points come off of offense created by others.
6-is far more mature and far less tempermental – Have you ever had a conversation with Al or Josh? LD stated Josh was the first out of ALL of the players including Bibby, who’s basketball iq is never questioned, to learn the playbook. And then on top of that, on the off season after getting the closest to the ECF this franchise has ever been, Al reports to camp OUT OF BASKETBALL SHAPE. How is that mature? When Josh gained weight, it wasn’t because he wasn’t working out, it was so he could defend more in the post. Al just showed up not in premium shape, opposed to Josh, Joe, and Teague.
7-doesn’t lose focus and take plays off while arguing with the refs, – Name an all star in the league who really cares, and never loses focus for a play or two while talking with referee? Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant, Dirk, Melo, Rose, KG, Pierce, and Duncan have all been seen taking a play to talk to a ref, and it results in the opposition scores. Guess you don’t want those guys either.
8-is far more physical and capable of defending and scoring over bigger and taller players- This one is funny. So why couldn’t he score over Taj Gibson, Boozer, or Brandon Bass? And why was he shut down after Amare called Al out? Yet, Chicago puts their best defender in Noah on Josh, and Josh still go for career numbers in a series? Boston puts KG on Josh, and Josh still have great numbers while playing on one knee after being hurt.
,
9-has been recognized by coaches, players and writers, and rewarded for his attributes, while Josh has been all but ignored because of his continued immaturity despite having All Star caliber talent and production. – Al was recognized because of injuries, and the fact that he plays a different position. A 12 pts, 9 reb center in the league, may get you into the all star game. However a 12 pt, 9 reb FORWARD won’t get you into any all star game. THAT is why Al made all star game.
10-has led the Hawks to the playoffs every yr since his arrival, when Josh and JJ couldn’t sniff the playoffs before his arrival. – Wrong. Al did not LEAD the Hawks into the playoffs. Was Al more effective than Sheldon Williams, of course. But the Hawks made the playoffs the first year more because of Mike Bibby’s presence. The Hawks were in the 9-10th seed before the all star break when Bibby was required. There’s a difference between LEADING and being an able body on a good team. IF he lead the team to the playoffs, how did they still manage to get a four seed without him playing majority of the season? I assure you, Chicago will not get the number 1 seed without Rose this season.
Al is a really good ROLE player. But making him out to be some sort of franchise savior is just wrong. I’ve never seen a player average 12 ppg for 5 seasons, and be considered so wonderful. Al is a pretty good center. I really like Al at the center position. However, Al is an average power forward. And he’s not a true difference maker.
Ra'mon
August 29th, 2012
3:10 pm
Ken, most who consider trading Al (in a rational way), thinks so in terms of feeling a need and going forward. For instance, Rudy Gay – Josh – Zaza is better than Morrow – Josh – Al. And its better than Morrow – Al Horford – Al Jefferson.
By the way, you said why trade Al Horford for a player like Westbrook? Seriously? The Hawks haven’t lost because of defense and rebounding in the playoffs. The Hawks defense have actually been pretty good, even without Al and with Zaza. The Hawks lost because not enough play makers and scorers on the floor. R. Westbrook almost beat the Miami Heat in game 4 by himself, with limited help from Durant, and no help from Harden. This was in the FINALS. If you think Westbrook wouldn’t also attract another all star level player to join him and Josh in the summer, you’re wrong. Westbrook COULD lead a team to a Finals appearance and a title. I strongly believe this.
Rod from College Park
August 29th, 2012
3:14 pm
Ra’mon,
Bravo.
Rod from College Park
August 29th, 2012
3:15 pm
“The Hawks haven’t lost because of defense and rebounding in the playoffs. The Hawks defense have actually been pretty good, even without Al and with Zaza. The Hawks lost because not enough play makers and scorers on the floor.”
CHURCH, PREACH, TABERNACLE!!!!!!!!
O'Brien
August 29th, 2012
3:20 pm
Steven A,
See Chris Redman and John Bob Parker getting CUT.
This is your idea of change? Last I checked, Chris Redman and John Parker Wilson were 2nd and 3rd string respectively, and have been that way for their entire careers. If Matt Ryan stays healthy, it wont matter who the backup and 3rd stringer is.
Slim,
Al’s an Allstar with good trade value.. He will be offered up again down the road sometime for sure..
Agreed. And for the right deal, I would trade Al. However, if Al goes back to beng boss Al, I think him and Zaza make a good center combination.
Astro Joe
August 29th, 2012
3:24 pm
Ra’mon, kind of stacking the deck there, huh? You offer up examples of front-court line-ups for the future and stack the deck in favor of a Josh-built line-up. How is it that Morrow is our long-term SF if we don’t trade Horford? I’m pretty sure that any frontcourt that has Morrow playing SF will appear to lack in quality. I’d rather have Zaza, Horford and Chandler than Zaza, Josh and Morrow (as an example).
Astro Joe
August 29th, 2012
3:27 pm
OB, the Horford from the past years (the one that wasn’t the boss but still averaged 15/10 with 3.5 assists on 55% shooting and only 12 FGAs) is plenty good for me. I’d like to see him become more physical, but it hasn’t exactly destroyed his production.
O'Brien
August 29th, 2012
3:27 pm
Jae Evolution,
I think A Westbrook for Rondo trade would do wonders for both teams. OKC has KD and Harden, so Rondo at PG to get them easy shots would help, plus Rondo helps on the glass, and defends. In Boston, Westbrook would get all the shots he wants, because Paul Pierce and KG need help on offense.
But rather than trade for Westbrook, how about just waiting until next year and offering Harden a max contract (~4 years, $60 mil)?
O'Brien
August 29th, 2012
3:28 pm
KevinM, Just Joe,
Would you prefer Chandler for 4 years, $26 mil (4th year team option), or Rudy Gay at 3 years, $43 mil? I like Rudy Gay, but for the money, give me Chandler.
Astro Joe
August 29th, 2012
3:47 pm
I think this whole “if he becomes Boss Al again” thing is misplaced. I think the issue is the scheme and philosophy of the new head coach. I really don’t know what it is that Al is doing differently from his so-called “Boss” days vs. what he did in his last healthy season. The biggest difference is the location of his FGAs, but isn’t the same true for Josh as well? Did they get “soft” together or did the head coach build a scheme that demands more FGAs from outside of the paint? LD also de-emphasized offensive rebounding because the Hawks were routinely getting beat on opposing fast breaks. So any rebounding issues are likely related to LD’s philosophy. My guess, both Josh AND Al saw their offensive rebounding drop when LD came on board (and Zaza, too). It feels like folk are blaming Horford for executing his head coach’s strategy.
Ra'mon
August 29th, 2012
3:58 pm
Ra’mon with a MASTER PIECE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HANDS CLAPPING AND STANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Freaking Awesome stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JOSH > AL…. NO CONTEST!
Slimjr
August 29th, 2012
4:01 pm
Sorry Ramon, I did it again… LOL!
O'Brien
August 29th, 2012
4:03 pm
AJ,
I don’t know if it can be put into numbers, but he doesn’t seem as physical in his style of play
MsDee
August 29th, 2012
4:08 pm
AJ,
I didnt look at it that way but it DOES seem like all the Horford haters are blaming him for executing Drew’s strategy! Horford is an unselfish player with a very high b-ball IQ. He chooses to play within the flow of the game, not trying to take matters into his own hands like Josh has. Dont get me wrong, Josh is a great athlete but does things over and beyond what he is asked to do and/or capable of doing. Im sure if AL had a coach who thought enough to make more plays for him, he would be averaging the points/reb he needed but other coaches, obviously see more than what u guys see.
Slimjr
August 29th, 2012
4:08 pm
Ask your self this question.. Can AL’s [AllStar] skills take this team to an ECF? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Can he hold carry or hold it down like Josh did during his Allstar run, Feb- April when the Hawks really needed him too since they lost Al and then Joe for a stretch of games?
Not in this time line for sure…
AllStar, right…
doc
August 29th, 2012
4:09 pm
aj, dont try to reason, you only come off as an apologist. where jpsh moved out beyond the three point line al went to the top of the circle. too friggin funny that i guess josh went there to get back on defense to break up fast break ops for the other team and not to shoot threes, that went up exponentially. it was defensive strategy or were you too stupid to realize it? as we have trouble scoring josh moves out to shoot threes but al antagonist say he is to blame, is soft and has set up too far outside while um his fg avg stays about the same. yup, offensive worries we got and it is about defense first; no, it isnt about josh working his way out where jj stood. no not soft, eh?
Ra'mon
August 29th, 2012
4:12 pm
AJ, the point I’m making is, what Al would get back in a trade, would make a better team, if one was moved, than no moves, or than what Josh would get back (with his contract expiring). In other words, we have way more depth at the C position than we do at the SF. And Zaza is way better than Morrow. So if I had to choose out of Zaza starting or Morrow starting with Al being moved for a high level SF, than I would choose Zaza and the high level SF.
Also when people say the term ‘Boss’ its not about the production. We’re talking about the attitude and the style of play. ‘Boss’ Al used to foul a guard hard if they came to be the basket. ‘Boss’ always seemed like he would run anyone over for a lose ball. ‘Boss’ pretty much was Ivan before Ivan in his first two years, until the tragedy in Toronto. IMO, from that day, it seemed like Al’s intensity started to decrease little by little after that. ‘Boss’ plays like he’s not scared of anyone. This Al appeared to get punked out by Amare, Gibson, and Bass. ‘Boss’ wouldn’t have done that. You want a post player that plays with a lot of heart, and a lot of intelligence. But you also want a post player who sometimes makes a play that is more heart than intelligence. Notice how Josh requested a trade because he was tired of losing, and losing the same way every year. Yet Al doesn’t seem to make any public comments about not being satisfied losing in the playoffs. Its almost as if Al has that Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter heart now. But ‘Boss’ had that Haslem and Charles Oakley type sense about him. Haslem and Oakley weren’t more skilled than Vince Carter. However, you would see a championship caliber coach call Haslem or Oakley to join their team before calling Vince even in his prime. Josh and Zaza are the only Hawks from the last two seasons who appear to be miserable when the Hawks lose in the playoffs. Joe, Al, Teague, and Marvin act as if they’re ready for their vacation to start. But ‘Boss’ made you feel like he cared just as much as anyone.
Ra'mon
August 29th, 2012
4:14 pm
O’B, I really don’t want Rudy Gay. I was just using him for an example. Now If you asked me if I’d rather have Andre Iguodala or Chandler, it’d be AI2 even over Al.
Slimjr
August 29th, 2012
4:23 pm
Were not the Hawks a top 6 NBA defensive team w/o ALL NBA last season? Hmmmm
Astro Joe
August 29th, 2012
4:26 pm
Ra’mon, quitting because you aren’t winning isn’t a quality worth admiring. It sure isn’t how i will teach my sons, “if you’re team is losing, it is okay for you to ask out of that team”.
Josh claims he wants to win, but IMO, Josh wants to be the one to make winning plays. There is a difference. If I’m building a team, I want to guy who doesn’t sulk on the court, doesn’t make the sour face when things go against his way and doesn’t want to take his ball and play somewhere else because the fans hate to see him take ill-advised shots. That’s NOT the guy I’m building around if I’m looking to create an environment like San Antonio has enjoyed for 10+ years. And certainly, I’m not paying a near-max deal to a player who only averages around 15 points/game.
doc
August 29th, 2012
4:26 pm
well all star slimj the combo of dearly departed jj and jamal with al and josh never made it so if he doesnt that doesnt imply he is the cause. fractious logic there.
if i were a betting man and you offered it up to me for say ten bucks al would do it and i could bet he wouldnt based on previous sampling, i would take your bet and be happy to pay you ten dollars if he did make it there. sadly, i think the basg had a lot to do with impeding our chase into the promised ecf land a few years ago by being so frugal when there were few obstacles, in not getting a real point guard that could play both ways and another big. if that had happened we could say josh and al had already done it. yes, that is about as speculative as all the other bs on here and i freely admit it. would al mean more to the minions here if the basg had been a little more progressive than to want to put entertainment on the floor?
so how about i take the bet that he deosnt say for ten? feel better already?
Ra'mon
August 29th, 2012
4:26 pm
O’B, also you trade for Westbrook instead of signing Harden because Westbrook is as talented as Derrick Rose. Westbrook is actually more athletic than Rose. The only problem is Westbrook is playing out of position. Harden is as talented as Joe in Phoenix. And I’m sure I don’t need to explain that. Harden couldn’t produce in the Finals as a 3rd option. I don’t see how he would ever lead a team to the Finals as the best player on the team. Truthfully, Westbrook should play 2 guard. And Harden is a 2 guard. Westbrook is a better 2 guard than Harden. So I choose Westbrook if possible. And then still have room to sign another superstar this off season or next.
O'Brien
August 29th, 2012
4:27 pm
slimjr,
Ask your self this question.. Can AL’s [AllStar] skills take this team to an ECF? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Two questions for you.
1) Is there anyone on this blog who has said Al can lead this team to an ECF?
2) Can Josh lead this team to an ECF?
I look forward to your reply.
Grandad
August 29th, 2012
4:29 pm
Enter your comments hereMichael Cunningham
” sorry, not following what you mean? ”
In reference to Big Ray`s comments:
e g; *Lame duck etc.
I do not know what is so hard to follow:
Lame Duck = Larry Drew [LD]
LD`s comments: … [concernin Weiss]
‘`be that birdie on my shoulder
as far as suggestions and ideals and what he sees,
“I started interviewing and compiling a list of guys.
I met with Bob for a second interview
I thought he was the perfect guy from a consultant standpoint.
giving me ideas and giving me opinions with the team as a whole.
I’ve always admired him from afar …..
didn’t know him personally–but watched from afar`’
* -the above was edited bullcrap- … (actual quotes) from LD
~also~
More comments from LD:
‘` Kenny came highly recommended as a guy
I did a lot of research on him talked to a lot of people.
I interviewed him a couple times and
thought he was a great candidate
to be that third assistant coach and a player development guy.`’
-again-
LD acting as if these were his decisions.
-plus-
the dismissal of his other two asst.
* Danny Ferry > LD.
note:
Weiss is a good basketball mind.
he was not a good HC.
however he brings a wealth of exp to the organization.
Also, most of us acquire wisdom with age and exp;
if for no other reason than osmosis.
opinion:
(1) – Weiss is helping to evaluate certain players:
*[namely Josh]
(2) – Weiss is on board to ascertain the best possible fit
for the HC which will inevitablely unseat LD.
____________________________________________
-additional manure-
“ I thought Kenny Gattison and Tyrone Hill did a really good job but,
like with anything else,
you are always looking to enhance what you have
and try to make a situation you feel can help the ball club,
“I felt it was time for a change.”
Question ?
Why didn`t LD feel this need for change
-immediately-
at the conclusion of the season ?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ?
Grandad
August 29th, 2012
4:32 pm
How did:
“enter your comments here”
get on the screen ?
Slimjr
August 29th, 2012
4:32 pm
O’Brien, Danny probably already has the answer.Hmmmm.Watch what he does with one of them after this coming season of evaluations…
Slimjr
August 29th, 2012
4:36 pm
If you had only one shot and one hand to dribble with, you’d play within the system too..
In fact you’d give the ball up like a hot potato and raise your assist to turnover ratio..
Astro Joe
August 29th, 2012
4:36 pm
Ra’mon, there are a few dozen ways to handle a frustration about a team’s outcome in the playoffs that are afr better than asking for a trade. And most of those ways would never be publicized to adoring fans. Sorry, you provided a lot of subjective stuff that assumes you know all of the behind the scenes discussions and issues regarding the team. I just watched Horford “leave it all on the floor” in the last few playoff games. When Josh made that stupid pass in Game 5, I watched Al chase down Rondo to stop a game-winnnng shot. I watched him block 3 shots and put up close to 20/10 while not fully recovered from his injury. I’m not ready to trade him because his production is the same but he is getting it done in the context of his boss’ design… or because he doesn’t ask to be traded because he doesn’t like losing.
That is a slippery slope… how many seasons does a guy play with a team before it is acceptable for him to quit on that team? And who gets to make that decision (on the quitting threshold)? Does the time re-start when a new head coach is hired? How about a new GM? if so, what is the new timeframe? Do you see my point? Suggesting that quitting on your team is a metric to evaluate a player’s heart seems foolish to me. Having the desire to quit on a team is nothing I would ever consider placing on a pedestal.
MsDee
August 29th, 2012
4:38 pm
Ask your self this question.. Can AL’s [AllStar] skills take this team to an ECF? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I say neither could by themselves but together, W/O ISO JOE, I say YES!! Esp if Drew’s Preston’s offense is ran EXACTLY like it is suppose to be ran, again I Say YES!!
Ra'mon
August 29th, 2012
4:38 pm
AJ, you say Josh wants to be traded so he can be the one making the winning plays. However the teams he were rumored to want to be traded to (LAL, Boston, and Orlando with Dwight) each were teams where he wouldn’t have been the number 1 option. So why would Josh request to be traded to a team where there are Hall of Fame caliber players who are number 1 options, if he wants to be ‘the guy’? In fact, even when Jamal was here, it seemed as if Josh was always the guy cheering and celebrating the MOST when OTHER players made game winning shots. That doesn’t sound like a guy who wants to be the guy and demands being. However, Josh stance was if its between Joe, Al, and Josh, then yes he should be the guy because he’s better than each. Out of Joe, Al, and Josh, Josh is the most willing and capable passer of the three, so yea the offense should’ve run through him. That doesn’t mean he averages the most points.
And you just said it isn’t ok to ask to be traded off a team that is losing, then you don’t want any of the stars on your team. Kobe wanted to be traded because Kupchak wasn’t making the moves to win a title. KG left Minnesota, as Ray Allen left Milwaukee and Seattle, because they weren’t winning or competing for a title. Lebron left Cleveland because he wasn’t winning titles. Wade was on the verge of signing with Chicago if Miami didn’t make the big move of adding the ‘big three’. Tim Duncan was just hours away from joining Grant Hill and McGrady in Orlando, because he didn’t think he could win with the young players around him. So you’re saying that you don’t admire Kobe, KG, Allen, Duncan, Lebron, or Wade’s will to win? Wow.
O'Brien
August 29th, 2012
4:39 pm
Ra’mon,
After this season, Westbrook will be owed ~ 4 years, $64 mil, so I think salary wise, him and Harden will be a wash. And although Harden disappeared in the finals, lets not forget that 1) Westbrook was going up against Chalmers and Cole at PG (Harden was going up against better defenders) and 2) Westbrook did go 4-20 in game 1 and 10-26 in game 3.
That being said, all things being equal, I would prefer Westbrook. But all things are not equal. Harden is a FA, and signing him would allow us to keep Teague and Al. I think Teague would be fine as the starting PG (on a reasonable salary), and then we can flip Al for other assets (or keep him).
If we trade Al and Teague for Westbrook, we would then have to go out and sign a PG, and another solid big.
doc
August 29th, 2012
4:40 pm
yes grandad, yes to all of the above. guess it was ld’s timelt reassessment of the 2011-2012 season that was a bit faster than the ajc’s that allowed ld the wisdom to make a change. it was kind of like the season review we got from then hawks management that everyone was on go, players, coaches and management, for another run at it since they had been so successful last year. ha!
O'Brien
August 29th, 2012
4:45 pm
Ra’mon,
Notice how Josh requested a trade because he was tired of losing, and losing the same way every year. Yet Al doesn’t seem to make any public comments about not being satisfied losing in the playoffs..
Really Ra’mon? This is what we are going to criticize Al for? Because (to our knowledge) he never came out and said he is tired of losing in the playoffs?
So I guess if he hasn’t said it to the media, that means he is fine with losing in the playoffs?
And say what you want about T-Mac and his heart, but dude averaged 25 pts, 6 rebs, and 5.5 assists in his playoff career.
O'Brien
August 29th, 2012
4:46 pm
Slimjr,
I didn’t ask about Danny and his opinion. I asked you 2 questions about your opinion. I hope you provide an answer.
Slimjr
August 29th, 2012
4:51 pm
Guess we’ll find out Obrien. Let the godfather games begin…
Ra'mon
August 29th, 2012
4:52 pm
AJ, there’s no way you offer Josh the absolute max. He’s not that type of player. However, he is worth a 5 year $80 million contract. Josh is a number 2 option on a championship caliber team, IMO. Al is a number 4 option on a championship caliber team, IMO. And you say how many season does a guy play with a team before he decides he wants to play for another organization? Being that Josh was the longest tenured player on the team, and he’s been here since he 18, I think that’s long enough. This is Josh prime that he is just now entering. Why wouldn’t he want to make sure that he is in the best winning position possible with his prime years? Isn’t this a lot better than what the old stars like Richmond and Drexler did by not title chasing until the end of their careers and taking huge pay cuts to make it happen? Baseball and any one not the quarterback are the players who can spend their entire careers never competing for the title, and still be considered one of the best (how many playoff games did Barry Sanders ever win, and how many rings do Cal Ripken have?). However, in basketball its all about the ring, and then the money. This new generation now sees that the more rings you get, the more endorsements you get. And the more likelier your chances are to make the HoF. AJ, you sit here, like many of us, and dog the moves the Hawks have made over the last 6-7 seasons. But you don’t like that a player see the moves being made, and wish to realign with another organization who have made many more qualities move? That’s like saying you don’t mind seeing another employer make better decisions that lead to a better environment, success, and benefits for their employees, while your employer is satisfied with giving you the minimum, and barely getting by. There is NO way you wouldn’t tell your children not to make the change to go to the company that is going do the best for their life and future, even if it meant a buy out.
Astro Joe
August 29th, 2012
4:59 pm
Ra’mon, I did NOT say that Josh wanted to be traded so he could make winning plays. So that is flat out wrong. I DON’T think his trade request had anything to do with a lack of winning, I think it had to do with his role on the team and the lack of love he received from fans and the Eastern Conference coaches. I think Josh will be FINE playing the big dog role on a team that loses in the first round…. as long as he is the big dog and makes the ASG. If that happens, he would suddenly start claiming how “determined I am to get this team to unprecedented levels”. Which is good spin for saying “I am enjoying being the new Joe Johnson for a team going no where”. I think Josh is about hierarchy and pecking order and who stands in which spot in line. His audacious ego is both a gift and a curse. He dares to do things and that both works and hurts. But I believe it is all about Josh… the team is an innocent bystander in all things Josh.
Jordan was the ultimate winner. We always think of Jordan as the guy who took the winning shot. But I also remember Jordan making the winning pass to guys like Paxton and Kerr and Hodges. Because he was more focused on winning than just being “the man” to make the winning play.
IMO, Josh needs to be the 3rd offensive option on a team. If he is more than that, the team will go no further than the 2nd round. And because Josh is so focused on hierarchy, I doubt that he would ever allow 2 players to join the Hawks and advance in front of him in the offense. IMO, it would be good for him to go to another team where he would be forced to “fall in line” behind established players on that team. I just truly believe that his mindset would not allow that to happen while he is wearing a Hawks uniform. Seriously, if Ferry traded for Gay and signed Harden to a contract, does anyone really believe Josh would willingly take the 3rd most shots on the team and focus his efforts on filling the stat sheet in non-glamorous ways? Sorry, I don’t (especially if he doesn’t make All-Star this season).
Ken Strickland
August 29th, 2012
5:00 pm
RA’MON-So many of the negative things that are being said about Horford on these blogs aren’t backed up by any stats either, so what’s your point.
You go overboard praising Westbrook for his heroics in gm 4 of last yrs playoff series. But couldn’t you have said virtually the same thing about Hawks playoff MVP JTeague in the 2010-2011 playoff series when he went up against league MVP DRose and the Bulls without the support of JJ and Jamal? Stop making excuses, please. EXAMPLE: You said, “JOSH IS ACTUALLY A BETTER REBOUNDER THAN AL, BUT JOSH HAS ALWAYS BE RESPONSIBLE FOR GETTING BACK ON DEFENSE TO HINDER ANY FAST BREAK OPPORTUNITIES. SO AL ALWAYS HAVE GOTTEN MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS.”
WOW! First off, how does helping out on DEF limit your ability to get OFF rebounds? Secondly, wouldn’t getting back on DEF put Josh closer to the basket and in better rebounding position? Here’s another thought your HORFORD BASHING mentality conviently failed to consider. Has Josh spent his entire career, or even part of it, having to rebound, defend, and score, night in and night out, against players that are usually much bigger and taller, or both, like DHoward, ABynum, TChandler, Hibbert, GMonroe, TDuncan, AJefferson, KGarnett, YNoah, BLopez, Shaq etc?
Again, stop making excuses.
Slimjr
August 29th, 2012
5:01 pm
see ya later doc..Ra’mon nailed it….lol!
Ra'mon
August 29th, 2012
5:03 pm
O’B, wrong. Westbrook was guarded by Wade just as much as he was guarded by Chalmers. Even James guarded Westbrook at times because they couldn’t stop him. The point is, I don’t think Harden could lead this team further than what Joe did. But I do think Westbrook could.
Also, I’m not saying I judge him exclusively by that. But what I am saying is all of the championship level team leaders of the last ten years have each let it be known they weren’t happy not winning somehow. If Al had rumors going around from his father that he didn’t want to play center anymore, he couldn’t send a word through the grapevine about being unhappy with the direction of the Hawks organization before Ferry was hired? Remember Josh never said anything publicly. But from his camp, you knew he wasn’t happy.
And yes TMac had decent numbers. So did Anfernee Hardaway. However, neither of them were that ‘warrior’ that coaches say they want and that you see on each championship team. Haslem, Battier, Chandler, Rodman, Kobe, Garnett, Rondo, Bowen, and others, these guys had something that wasn’t physical or statistical. It was just something where you knew you didn’t want to be between them and a loose ball, a championship, or anything. Each of these guys were bullies and bulldogs in their own way. And in playoff basketball, the bullies normally win. T. Mac and Vince weren’t bullies. The first time he went to the Finals, Dirk wasn’t a bully. ‘Boss’ used to be a bully. Its not about your size, height, or anything.
Astro Joe
August 29th, 2012
5:05 pm
There is NO way you wouldn’t tell your children not to make the change to go to the company that is going do the best for their life and future, even if it meant a buy out.
Ra’mon, can you see the difference between a person leaving to make the proper career move vs. a person telling his bosses, co-workers and customers that he wants to leave because they are all a bunch of losers?
And you think it is admirable to do the latter? Wow!