Atlanta Hawks: Finding a good fit for Lou Williams

Lou Williams (Photo: Scott Cunningham, NBAE/Getty Images)

New team, good fit? (Photo: Scott Cunningham, NBAE/Getty Images)

The Hawks will have to work out the Jeff Teague-Devin Harris backcourt (assuming it stays that way if/when Danny Ferry is done making trades). They need a true wing player, too.

But I’m most intrigued to see how Lou Williams fits. He’s a very effective scorer but, if he’s going to remain in a role similar to the one he filled in Philly, he may need to play alongside either Harris or Teague.

“I was off the ball [in Philadelphia], I would prefer to be off the ball, and I think both of those guys [Teague and Harris] are on the ball,” Williams said. “So I don’t think it will be an issue as much as people think it is. Once we open up camp I’m sure Coach [Larry] Drew will do a good job in figuring out where everyone is going to go.”

I can’t see any reason why the Hawks would want Williams to change up his game. What’s not to like?

For three seasons Williams was the best kind of bench scorer for the Sixers: high usage, high production and good-to-reasonable efficiency while playing just 26.3 minutes per game. He did all of that while helping the Sixers defensively.

Williams is aggressive and quick, which should help the Hawks play faster. He’s tough and fearless. Heck, Williams even has pretty good flow on the mic.

But he’s better making something happen off the dribble.

“More attacking than catch-and-shoot,” Williams said. “Actually catch-and-shoot is one of the things I’ve been able to work on this whole summer. Coming down in transition and catching the ball and shooting, instead of catching and trying to create so much off the dribble.”

Williams may prefer to play off the ball but it’s not as if he can’t play the point.

According to Synergy Sports Technology, Williams used 30 percent of his possessions in 2011-12 as the screen-roll ballhandler and scored .94 points per possession (19th in the league) while drawing fouls 11 percent of the time on those plays. Last season, screen-roll ballhandler was Williams’ most-frequent play type used and second-most efficient behind spot-ups (12 percent of possessions used, .96 points per possession). Williams posted similar numbers in 2010-11 and 2009-10.

Williams’ career assist rate is low (though higher than Joe Johnson’s) but his turnover rate is ridiculously low. That’s particularly impressive because of Williams’ willingness to create contact; not many guards get to the free-throw line as effectively as Williams, and he’s made free throws at better than 81 percent for three consecutive seasons.

Williams said he patterned his game after former Sixers teammate Allen Iverson.

“The whole time you are in the game be aggressive and don’t take plays off,” Williams said. “I think that’s one of the things I learned from A.I. Watching him, he didn’t take plays off. He always took contact, initiated it and he didn’t shy away from it being a small guard.”

Williams also attributes his foul magnetism to a nifty ball fake: “I got that from Andre Miller. He’s got one of the best pump fakes in the world.”

Perhaps Williams can run the point for the second unit and just focus on scoring. As mentioned, he’s very effective playing off screens and he’s also a very good isolation player: his Synergy efficiency league ranks on those plays the past three seasons were 61st, 49th, and 30th. Williams’ isolations aren’t the ball-stopping kind.

If Williams plays more minutes for the Hawks than he did for the Sixers, it will be interesting to see if he can remain an efficient, impact scorer even with a lower usage rate (probable if he plays a lot of minutes with the starters).

“In the past, in Philadelphia my role was to come in the game and just light it up and score as many points as I possibly could,” Williams said. “Talking to Coach Drew and talking to Danny I think my role will be similar, if not increased. Obviously you have Devin [and] you have Jeff, who are very talented guards, and then you add myself into that mode.

“I have always been a team player, a team guy. I don’t plan on coming in here competing with these guys negatively. I think we all can contribute.”

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

256 comments Add your comment

MikeH

August 22nd, 2012
1:06 pm

MsDee

August 22nd, 2012
1:18 pm

I think he will fit just fine!!

Comet

August 22nd, 2012
1:24 pm

Welcome home, Lou!

MsDee

August 22nd, 2012
1:29 pm

Have we ever considered Kelenna Azubuike from the Cavs? Sure he has been bang up a little but DANG, he sure is a cutie pie!! Really nice eye candy in a Hawks jersey!!

Ken Strickland

August 22nd, 2012
1:31 pm

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2012/8/21/3258283/atlanta-hawks-2-seed-next-year-says-basketball-prospectus-espn

Here’s a very interesting and surprising take on the Hawks 2012-2013 projected seeding.

Ken Strickland

August 22nd, 2012
1:38 pm

Wow! Once again I end up reading an article that totally debunks the OPINIONS of most fans concerning one of our newly acquired backcourt players DEF abilities. First it was DHarris, and now it’s LWilliams. Actually, it was our resident loudmouths who were predicting layup central because of what they felt would be a very porus perimeter DEF.

Ken Strickland

August 22nd, 2012
1:42 pm

http://netsarescorching.com/2010/10/15/scouting-report-anthony-morrow/

Here’s Anthony Morrow’s scouting report, which shows he’s not the DEF liability that some have insisted on believing.

jgsbirds

August 22nd, 2012
1:44 pm

looks good in the uni! i’m ready to get this season rolling!

Ken Strickland

August 22nd, 2012
1:57 pm

Enter your comments here

doc

August 22nd, 2012
2:00 pm

like this williams. seems he is smart and a student of the game always looking to others to teach him. wish our last williams could have been i the same mold. never heard him ever say what he was working on or who he watched except movies, video games with his cousin and admitting he never watched basketball. also dont be so quick on saying these guards cant guard too. devin at one time pressured well, we have seen what teague can do when motivated and now the implication is this williams wasnt a dud on the defensive end either. read aslo what ken posted on morrow. also korver wasnt a slouch playing defense under thibs and seemed to take more pride in it.

recommend highly folks go to 790 zone and hear the interview with danny ferry. he is very candid about his goals and aspirations and what he will be emphasizing. the philosophy is going to be smart and take all information into consideration. he is very quick to say they will be using analytics, have hired folks to help them interpret it better and that none of that existed in the past regimes of the deadheads that ran the organization by the seats of their pants and luck. he also is quick to say basketball is changing and with it teams have to be athletic and flexible. he didnt seem scared with the shorter nature of his team, saying that maybe they can use it as an advantage. the computer match up potentials are going to be looked at closely and tested. i would post it for you guys but it is a long three part interview of close to thirty minutes.

as an aside a little concerned that we havent heard more from our surprise finding last year. hope he is upping his game and will come in stronger and leaner after signing his contract to play here again. need his grill on the court.

doc

August 22nd, 2012
2:05 pm

of course i was referring to our remaining johnson, ivan the terrible.

any word or contact from him MC?

Big Ray

August 22nd, 2012
2:14 pm

1) Agreed with everything Doc said.

2) I don’t trust Larry Drew to get it right with this many guys who can play point guard. That’s all I’m going to say on that right now.

3) Danny Ferry is a Godsend.

4) I wonder if we’ll add another wing player (SF) not named Pape Sy?

doc

August 22nd, 2012
2:17 pm

br still have some folks carrying the candle for pape. never understood that one from the get go nir the fan acceptance of the stupidity. definitely one of the low lights of the past two regimes BD. heh heh

[...] he tells the Atlanta Journal Consitituon he hopes to work more off the ball for the Hawks. “I was off the ball [in Philadelphia], I would [...]

Ken Strickland

August 22nd, 2012
2:29 pm

DHUNT/OBRIEN-According to a link I posted on the last blog, DHarris is capable of delivering near All NBA type of DEF. His scouting report also rated his DEF very highly. This is a direct contradiction to what you have been posting and worrying about. If DHarris gives us anything close to the All NBA caliber DEF his scouting report says he’s capable of delivering, along with what JTeague is capable of, how can you say we’ll miss JJs DEF?

Even LWilliams’ scouting report says he’s aggressive and not afraid to play DEF, which means he isn’t the DEF liability some seem to think. In AMorrow and KKorver, we have what could be the NBAs 2 best 3pt shooters. And their ability to be used at SG and SF increases their effectiveness. We’ll have a backcourt that will feature 2 of the NBAs quickest and fastest players, and 2 of the NBAs best 3pt shooters.

I don’t see our perimeter DEF losing much defensively, if anything at all, without JJ. Their presence will improve our penetrating ability, FT attempts, fastbreak pts, speed, quickness, and athleticism, without hurting our perimeter DEF. Their lack of ideal height will have more of an effect on them being posted up than anything else, and that’s when TEAM/HELP DEF comes into play.

No more clearouts so JJ can run the clock down pounding the ball only to end up going 1 or 5 and shooting a floater, while drawing no fouls. This yrs Hawks don’t need JJ or any other individual player carry it, because this yrs team has the talent, versatility, and depth to carry itself.

coachx

August 22nd, 2012
2:34 pm

Welcome home LW !

We are proud to have you as a Hawk and glad you turned out to be such a mature and well spoken young man. Will never forget watching you an Mercer light it up at SG.

Ken Strickland

August 22nd, 2012
2:37 pm

DOC/BIG RAY-It wouldn’t surprise me to see DFerry do a trade for SF AGee, unless he has his eye on a higher profile SF in next yrs FA class. With a player like Gee, who’s good at everything but not outstanding at any one thing, he might be looking at a longterm contract more than a high dollar one.

Rod from College Park

August 22nd, 2012
2:46 pm

“In the past, in Philadelphia my role was to come in the game and just light it up and score as many points as I possibly could,” Williams said. “Talking to Coach Drew and talking to Danny I think my role will be similar, if not increased.”

There you have it folks. His role has been to come off the bench and score as many oints as he can. Sounds familar doesn’t it. Some idiots on this blog don’t seem to understand that if your role on the team is to come in and score, then bad shots will be taken. Anyone who did not like Jamal will not like Lou Williams. I am a big fan of Lou, but I don’t care what any scounting report or numbers say, he defense is no better than Jamal. He is very quick, so he will come up with some steals, but he does not keep guys in front of him defensively, and sometimes gives up just as much as he gets. It is what it is. Very good offensively, streaky, but defensively is below average.

drmaryb .("_*).

August 22nd, 2012
2:59 pm

So sad we got this SCRUB. TRAGIC!!

Ken Strickland

August 22nd, 2012
3:03 pm

ROD FROM CP-A number of states now allow same sex marriages, so you can legally approach your beloved Jamal Crawford and ask for his hand in marriage.

doc

August 22nd, 2012
3:08 pm

rod, i can only hope the dont do to williams what they did to jamal which was to try and make a point guard out of him. also this scorer doesnt look like a matador on defense like jamal who was purely only interested in one side of the ball.

ignition

August 22nd, 2012
3:11 pm

Dude should rap more….
Probably will now that he is back in the A

steven a smith

August 22nd, 2012
3:14 pm

Jamal Crawford was an excellent shooting guard during his stay in Atlanta. Much better than Morrow, Stephenson, and Jenkins. Lou Williams is a point guard. Call him what you like, he is a point guard.

Anal minded again

August 22nd, 2012
3:18 pm

Enter your comments here

Bravesfan79

August 22nd, 2012
3:22 pm

Am i the only one who thinks that starting Morrow at the 3 spot wouldnt be the worst idea in the world? Morrow would easily be the best shooter in the league at the SF spot. And his defence isnt as bad as some think. The Heat won alot of games and a title playing small ball, why cant the Hawks?

cpsman_atlanta

August 22nd, 2012
3:23 pm

Too bad he’ll never win in Atlanta as long as Atlanta $pirit Group is in charge. Can someone go tell these bozos to sell the team, so we can get hockey back at Philips Arena. BOYCOTT ATLANTA $PIRIT GROUP. I BELIEVE IN BLUELAND!!!

KevinM

August 22nd, 2012
3:33 pm

MC, I took a minute to look up these FT stats for Joe and Lou, who we all know will get the bulk of the minutes at the 2:

Joe
2010-11 35.5 mpg .802 FT% 195-243
2011-12 35.5 mpg .849 FT% 158-186

Lou
2010-11 23.3 mpg .823 FT% 243-356
2011-12 26.3 mpg .812 FT% 237-292

Those are some incredible differences between the 2. That’s Lou getting 219 more FTA than Joe in 10mpg less. That is a telling stat about the games of these 2. I think we benefit greatly from Lou than what Joe gave us. You give Lou 35.5 mpg…….could he get Iverson type nimbers? He can definitely match Joe’s production.
I say its quite possible and AI was never known for defense, much less ‘practice’.

We could go into camp this year without Korver and Morrow and Lou and Jenkins and some Devin could hold down the 2 slot.

And does anyone realize what guy could really improve our team? I think its Shawn Marion, but he’s got 2 more years at 17M. Did anyone realize he came in 8th in DPOY voting?

Tyson Chandler New York 45 25 11 311
Serge Ibaka Oklahoma City 41 24 17 294
Dwight Howard Orlando 18 23 27 186
LeBron James Miami 7 19 20 112
Kevin Garnett Boston 2 9 7 44
Tony Allen Memphis 4 3 7 36
Andre Iguodala Philadelphia 1 7 7 33
Shawn Marion Dallas 2 2 1 17
Luol Deng Chicago 1 2 5 16
Josh Smith Atlanta 0 2 3 9
Joakim Noah Chicago 0 2 0 6
Marc Gasol Memphis 0 1 2 5
Chris Paul L.A. Clippers 0 1 2 5
Avery Bradley Boston 0 0 2 2
Mike Conley Memphis 0 0 2 2
Grant Hill Phoenix 0 0 2 2
Iman Shumpert New York 0 0 2 2
Greg Monroe Detroit 0 0 1 1
Dwyane Wade Miami 0 0 1 1
Russell Westbrook Oklahoma City 0 0 1 1

All the votes with 1st/2nd/3rd place/total and Marion picks up 2 1st place votes. It tells you how much respect he gets in the league and he topped Josh this year.
I think he could fit in quite nicely on this team should Dallas think they need a SG or a Petro as a backup C.

For those who look at the guys we got from the nYets, we wouldn’t lose much if none of them weren’t on the roster.

JTO

August 22nd, 2012
3:43 pm

@MC, Doc, Ken Strickland:
Everyone keeps mentioning the need for a defensive minded wing/sf. What about Josh Childress? How do you think that he would fit here if he came back? He is defensive minded and willing to be a roll type player while still being quite young.

The Truth

August 22nd, 2012
4:01 pm

This roster featuring another “home-town” player (Lou) is certainly positive and will no-doubt energize Phillips. Let’s call it the Highlight Factory Featuring “J Smoove and Boyz Show”. Serious though, this roster could be a “fun-bunch” playing the under-dog role if we can avoid the temptation of lofty expectations.

To acquire Gee as a RFA, Danny would have to bid for him above his QO and hope Cleveland doesn’t match. I didn’t get an impression from Danny that he’s willing to risk his “flexibility” on another 6’-6” guard like Alonzo Gee via trade or FA acquisition. Since Danny has already tipped his hat at the type of SF is looking for (6’-10” Anthony Randolph), you’ll have to assume he’s interested in this type.

Unless the camp outcome surprises us, the best option for a SF starter (at this point) will be Josh Smith which should open up a roster spot for Mike Scott unless he’s beaten out by a camp invitee who’s willing to accept a non-guaranteed contract. Assuming Ivan sign and Benson is picked-up, the roster is complete.

i_am_soulstar

August 22nd, 2012
4:04 pm

So excited to see this team. Looking forward to whenever the open practice will be this year.

Melvin

August 22nd, 2012
4:08 pm

I like Lou’s attitude…

“I have always been a team player, a team guy. I don’t plan on coming in here competing with these guys negatively. I think we all can contribute.”

Just Joe

August 22nd, 2012
4:08 pm

Morrow has been in the league for 4 years, and his shooting %’s have dropped each of the last 3 years. It looks like backup SG should be his position. Golden State figured this out after trying him as a starter, and so did the Nets, who also tried him as a starter. Maybe he finally gets it together at 27 yrs old, since he’s returning to Atlanta, but I’m not sure it will happen. With the drafting of Jenkins, he might only get a few months to prove himself before becoming trade bait. He’ll get an opportunity just like the other 6 guards we have on our roster.

MsDee

August 22nd, 2012
4:17 pm

I sure hope Lou could record some lyrics for Philips Arena cause ATL is dying for some hype music!! Would be great if we could run out to a couple of hype music from him!!

KBP

August 22nd, 2012
4:22 pm

Stephen A. . . . What is it about Lou’s game that says he is a PG? He plays the same style now that he did in high school – Primarily a scorer, much more than a facilitator/distributor. He is a SG trapped in a PG body. Every game I have seen him play, not once did I get the impression his main focus was setting his teammates up? By the fact he prefers playing off the ball states what he believes he is best at.

Astro Joe

August 22nd, 2012
4:25 pm

Big Ray, considering that Harris, Teague and Lou have more similarities than not, will there be a bad way to deploy these similarly skilled players? Personally, I’m ready for July, 2013.

Rod from College Park

August 22nd, 2012
4:30 pm

“rod, i can only hope the dont do to williams what they did to jamal which was to try and make a point guard out of him. also this scorer doesnt look like a matador on defense like jamal who was purely only interested in one side of the ball.”

Same coach, same results. Drew will try to play him as a point guard because that is what he did with Jamal. Again you obviously have not watched Lou Williams play if you think he is a good defensive player. Ask any Philly fan, they will let you know. Watched him since high school, and defense is not his strong suit. He is a scorer (SG) in a point guard body. I totally agree with KBP.

Rod from College Park

August 22nd, 2012
4:37 pm

“ROD FROM CP-A number of states now allow same sex marriages, so you can legally approach your beloved Jamal Crawford and ask for his hand in marriage.”

While I would never go there usually, I really don’t do the same sex thing being a straight male who loves women. So since you decided to go there, lets go. Maybe you should stop focusing on making another man be gay and worry about if you will ever be able to satisfy a woman again. Prostate cancer usually has some serious side affects in that regard.

brigadierjerry

August 22nd, 2012
4:54 pm

lou williams having watched a lot of him since i live up north is not a pg.he is good at drawing fouls with his head fake. he can bring the ball up the court. he is streaky like crawford is but a little more under control. his defense is average.

my biggest fear is ld playing lou extensive minutes trying at pg is a recipe for disaster.

vava, ur post on breakdown on types of centers from previous blog was very good

Luke Cage

August 22nd, 2012
5:00 pm

SWEET CHRISTMAS!!!

brigadierjerry

August 22nd, 2012
5:02 pm

i think the hawks will try and trade for sf if not they should look at:

pitreus
damion wikens
shawne williams

also like austin daye

they should sign ivan and get a 3rd string backup center i.e. benson and get ready to go to start season

Luke Cage

August 22nd, 2012
5:02 pm

Hawks got a gem in Lou, still need a Defensive minded player at SF

pointguardslim

August 22nd, 2012
5:11 pm

brigadierjerry Lou Williams guards point guards. So Hawks have some thinking to do on this one at least vs playoff caliber big guards. Maybe some sort of a zone? Maybe Lou steps up?

We’ll see but from here it looks like a bad fit if he can’t d up. I’m looking at his footage and he really played point guard if you are who u can guard, that is.

brigadierjerry

August 22nd, 2012
5:16 pm

pgs,

whats up?i know lou can guard pg but i dont want him running the offense. sounds crazy but if harris isnt traded, i can see ld trying to run a 3 guard offense at times. what backup center do u want and would take a pitreus or shawne williams who can play sf as a sf?

Ken Strickland

August 22nd, 2012
5:18 pm

JTO-it’s always possible. After all, Ferry did say that an option would be to sign someone at the minimum, and Childress just might be willing to accept that for a chance to start again. Having a successful yr as a starter on a 1yr contract would certainly give him a good chance of signing a multi yr contract for more money.

I’d either match or slightly exceed Cleveland’s offer to Gee and see if he’ll pull a JJ and want to get out of Cleveland and play for a team that will be decidedly better. Nothing lost but a try. However, if Ferry has his sights set on a 2012-13 FA SF, then a Childress like deal would be the smart move.

We could end up starting someone like Morrow or Korver at SF, and then move Josh over when matchups dictate. I even like the idea of using IJohnson in that role better, since he definitely has some seriously quick feet, and there are very few SFs that could handle him physically. That move would also allow us to keep our best help defender and shotblocker near the basket @ PF.

prison mike

August 22nd, 2012
5:47 pm

We will flip KK for a team desperate for shooting and the team may be Cleveland. I’ll take Casspi and a filler.

AG

August 22nd, 2012
6:06 pm

I would like another SF – but I agree with Ken, starting Ivan will help us with our size and defense. I like the idea of starting Lou – not bringing him off the bench. The bench will have Harris, Korver and Morrow – but certainly want Jenkins to get some run. If LD really coaches, although he will have a very deep team, he will (should) go only 9 per game.

Starters Bench
PG – Teague Harris
SG – Williams Harris/Morrow
SF – Johnson Morrow/Korver
PF – Smith Horford
C- Horford ZaZa

Ken Strickland

August 22nd, 2012
6:33 pm

AG-I wasn’t suggesting that we make IJohnson our starting SF, just use him at that position when we encounter SFs like LeBron James, who can simply overpower someone like AMorrow or KKorver. I do remember reading a couple of articles shortly after the draft that suggested we take a good long look at Scott as a possible SF candidate.

He has the OFF and shooting touch to play the position, and he’s about the same size as JJ, but more athletic. He’s also a much, much better rebounder than JJ, but he might not be as good defensively, nor have JJs range. But otherwise, he might be able to more than get the job done. That move wouldn’t cost us any additional cap space and would negate the need to trade for a SF. SO WHAT DO YOU THINK?

AG

August 22nd, 2012
6:37 pm

No – not very impressed with him in the Summer Leagues. He is a tween er and I almost agree with Chris Webber – those players just are not good NBA players. Ivan is stronger, more polished than Scott. For those who worry about defense, starting Ivan is not bad. My question is why do we want Lou coming off the bench?

vava74

August 22nd, 2012
6:44 pm

brigadierjerry,

Thanks!

I did forget Monroe, who has a nifty offensive game and may also become a top grade C like cousins if he stabilises his game and starts to play D

steven a smith

August 22nd, 2012
6:52 pm

KBP

August 22nd, 2012
4:22 pm

Stephen A. . . . What is it about Lou’s game that says he is a PG? He plays the same style now that he did in high school – Primarily a scorer, much more than a facilitator/distributor

He has to learn the positon. He has too much value not to start. He will learn to limit his shots. He is too small to guard shooting guards in this league. Alan Iverson was not a traditional PG, and he did not do to bad?

brigadierjerry

August 22nd, 2012
7:03 pm

stephen a,

u think lou is a better pg than teague or harris?dont see it and why would u want him over an established pg like harris or teague?

comparing him to iverson?he cant carry offensive load like iverson did. u want lou to start so u can bench horford. if u so down on horford, u think jefferson that much better?how?

KevinM

August 22nd, 2012
7:31 pm

Lou can start without a doubt. Are you going to let Korver get minutes like Hinrich? I think you put your best contributors out there immediately.
Lou is the best 2G we have….Harris can fight with Teague…Korver, Morrow and Jenkins can fight for whatever Lou leaves in minutes.
I’m treating Lou like AI at this point. He gets to the line, can handle contact, and his defense is fine.
If you’re afraid of a small backcourt, let Harris start with Lou. He can prove he’s worthy of another contract this year.

And Ivan isn’t even on the team yet…….you can’t pencil him in. Perhaps Danny has a better option and Ivan comes into camp to earn his slot. We know he and LD have had differences.

KevinM

August 22nd, 2012
7:32 pm

Oh yeah, throw Stevenson in the mix at SF and some spot 2G minutes.

steven a smith

August 22nd, 2012
7:42 pm

Lou Williams may become a 20pt per game guy as a starter. Must develop a “real” starting Center.

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

August 22nd, 2012
7:45 pm

Leave the team like it is.

Teague
Harris
Stephenson
Smoove
Horford

Lou Williams
Morrow
Korver
Big Ivan
Zaza

Petro
Jenkins
Maybe Al Thornton (if he hadn’t signed already or Benson)

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
8:09 pm

No, Lou was not the PG in Philly but the ball was in his hands the majority of the time when he was on the court there. He can play the position just fine as long as he has release valves (Dead Eye Shooters) on the wings to bail him out when he makes bad decisions with the basketball…. like getting to deep into the teeth of the defense with nowhere to go (B/C he doesn’t keep his dribble when he gets to the launching pad (restricted area of the lane) because he’s NOT a PG). Yes he can spot up, but he needs the ball in his hands to be effective, which is why it’s better for him to run with Jenkins and Korver in the second unit.

Teague needs a capable ball-handler and decision-maker to take pressure off him against elite top-level defenses like Boston and Miami. Having Teague and Kirk made Joe’s life so much easier since he didn’t have to bring the ball up all the time like he had to with Mike Bibby (and wasn’t the only one who could maneuver around against their pressure in the half-court) This is why a Teague/Harris back-court makes the most sense…not to mention they are both very explosive and speedy guards. think Rondo-Bradley form last season with better (explosive) offensive potential.

pointguardslim

August 22nd, 2012
8:14 pm

so… Lebron James vs Ivan Johnson,,, lateral quickness isn’t an issue there but with Josh it is?

Ivan Johnson really? Because of his muscle? Why not get Ben Wallace to guard Lebron

Detox

August 22nd, 2012
8:14 pm

Guys sorry I did not make it back to the last Blog after posting what appears to some as controversial, others interesting and finally one (1) as just downright abusive. I grab about four (4) or five (5) to responded to. I will republish the blog following this one if MC doesn’t do his “cultist” duty to sensor as he frequently does whenever the blogger as for a Al Horford trade.

Here we go.

vava74
August 22nd, 2012
7:09 am
T-S,
Just a quick query in order to see if you are still in touch with reality:
Who and how should the Hawks sign to fill the C slot instead of Al?
Who and how?

Vava, that’s a fair question. My first thoughts are in line with yours a small number of guys who can play the center role well enough to take us higher by defending the rack. My criterion is as your follow up post to the one above stated is a matter of economics as well as need based.

1) We don’t need our center to be a 20+ point scorer as much as we need one who embraces the position as his only position and will sacrifice his body for the protection of the rim. He doesn’t need to lead the league in block shots, but he also doesn’t need to be down around numbers 15-30 like Al Horford. He needs to be big enough and athletic enough to:

ALTER SHOTS, DENY THE LANE AND CAUSE RESPECT BY KNOCK PEOPLE ON THEIR BUTTS WHEN THEY INVADE HIS DOMAIN.

No one respect Al when he’s protecting (if that’s what you call what he does). Al actually runs an escort service for guys to show case their dunks.

That said S.A.S has a few guys he’s throw out there two (2) of which would be a clear upgrade over Al defensively and one offensively.

Al Jefferson – 3 best centers in the NBA and not far off the pack. Has size, strength and loves the role and position. He’s also respected by the opposition and will knock you on your butt.

How do we get him?

The same way we pursued D12, offer Al and Teague. The salaries offset.

D Harris
Williams
Jenkins
JSmoove
A Jefferson

Ken Strickland
August 22nd, 2012
7:22 am
No matter how many different names he goes by, T-S still has the same narrow minded thought process, assuming there’s any thought involved in anything he says. And we have one delusional jackass that thinks he knows more about basketball than any player, coach, GM, fan, or owner alive.

Ken…. well at least you did not call me an “ANAL MINDED MORON” like you do all the other bloggers who realize we will never get past average with Al as a starter or part of your core. In your cultist world anybody who is calling for Al to be replaced is an “Anal Minded Moron”
This is about as good as it gets with Al which is why he was refused in 4 trades this summer. Consider Orlando took what appeared to be less than what we were waving “Al, Teague and draft pick(s). They apparently weren’t interested in rebuilding with Al as a major piece. Can you blame them?

ag
August 22nd, 2012
7:39 am
What center should we try to get? I have asked these questions so much in these blogs with NO response!

ag I still think we can get Al Jefferson, without to great a loss. But when you stop to think about it Al is not really that hard to match (see Zaza/Ivan 2012) for less money. Al’s career average is 12 pts 9rbs. I can get very similar numbers for 7 million less. We were a better team without Al. So let’s not act as if Al is all that and a bag of chips.

Sautee
August 22nd, 2012
10:02 am
T-s,
That was your most cogent post in quite awhile at 6:34 am. I disagree with parts of it, but it was well written.
Here’s what I disagree with:
“Funny thing, It was published that the hawks tried 4 times this past summer to trade Al and got no takers, yet the few but loud Horford cultist on this site act as if he is the second coming of Christ.”
This is a flat out lie. What was published was conjecture and speculation, which is what every off season brings. There were ZERO reports of Horford being offered in trade, and the other team turning it down. ZERO.
Go ahead and show us the “published” reports that say this. You cannot, because they don’t exist. All that DOES exist is trade rumors and speculation.

Why lie about this?
You have a way with words Sautee and you misapply them with the best of them.
1) None of us can actually sit in the trade discussion and confirm what the offer was and what the turning point of the negotiations was.
2) I find your denial is motivated by your cultist worship of Al rather than the reality.

a) While I wasn’t there, most of the sources (including MC) reported the hawks were offering Al and Teague for Dwight Howard.
b) While I wasn’t there many of the sources were reporting AL was offered to NJ.
c) While I wasn’t there many of the sources were reporting Al was offered to the Bobcat
d) While I wasn’t there many of the sources were reporting Al was offered for Danny Grainger
e) While I wasn’t there many of the sources were reporting Al was offered for Tony Parker.
All of these reports between June and the end of July 2012
If I put more than one link on this post it will get flagged so I say anyone, Google all or any of the above and you will see, that it is accurate that these trades were being reported, not by bloggers, but by major publications, including M. Cunningham of the AJC
Now we can play games with words and say “you can’t prove it,” while living in denial or we can come to the acknowledgement that Al has been on the trade market this summer with no takers.
Then you can ask why no takers.
The only lie Sautee is the one you are telling yourself.

SteveW
August 22nd, 2012
11:00 am
Ag – Al Jefferson is who I get. He probably is the 3rd best C in the League right now. And he’s still young.
If Derrick Favors were available, I’d get him as well.

SteveW
August 22nd, 2012
11:03 am
I like T Chandler as a Center as well.

I’m down with Jefferson will accept Chandler, and give Favors a chance

pointguardslim

August 22nd, 2012
8:15 pm

Lou Williams was guarding PGs but playing off the ball. Jrue Holiday was guarding SGs but playing on ball.

Not hard to understand.

Slimjr

August 22nd, 2012
8:19 pm

Enter your comments here

Slimjr

August 22nd, 2012
8:25 pm

Detox, you just turned his smile [President of Al's Fan Club] into a frown..Poor guy…..

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
8:25 pm

Jenkins (Potentially our best SHOOTER) doesn’t get any minutes if Lou doesn’t guard the position that most closely matches him size-wise.

…and for those who don’t know, Jenkins has a desire to START from day one, and at the VERY LEAS play A TON of minutes:

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120804/SPORTS0602/308040021/Former-Vanderbilt-standout-John-Jenkins-shines-NBA-summer-league?nclick_check=1

I say, Why not? Team is in transition and everyone around the league knows what Lou can do. The Rook needs some burn and Ferry has Stated that PLAYER DEVELOPMENT is a focus of his.

Detox

August 22nd, 2012
8:26 pm

*I grabbed about four (4) or five (5) to respondto

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
8:26 pm

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
8:29 pm

It also seems like the Vanderbilt faithful feel it’s the right move as well. I personally don’t (Not over former All-Star Devin Harris anyway) but significant minutes next to Lou off the bench? Yes.

http://www.anchorofgold.com/2012/7/30/3201784/john-jenkins-starting-in-atlanta-from-day-one

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
8:37 pm

Also, you guys should visit some Utah Jazz blogs lol. Al Jefferson is Devin Harris’s Kryptonite. Harris had to slow his pace WAY DOWN in order to get the big man (or big Anchor) his touches. Harris is a team guy so he changed his game for the sake of the team, but his strength (Speed) was rarely used in Utah. Ty Corbin likes to feed the post (not a lot of pick n’ rolls) So Harris naturally had better spot-up shooting percentages. This is the reason the Move for Mo Williams was made by Utah. While I can confidently say that Mo is NOT a better PG that All-star Harris, he does better cater to Utah’s needs.

And Al Jefferson? Here!? Did you see this guy in the playoffs? His game got Shut Down! Not tall enough to play center (gets bothered by longer post players) and not quick enough to guard or get by PF’s (or centers for that matter) lol. Leave the big anchor in Utah, Please…

Detox

August 22nd, 2012
8:43 pm

RePost

Detox

August 22nd, 2012
6:34 am

Dont you idiots have a life?

SAS got 1 thing. You will never ever ever win a NBA championship With Al Horford starting on your team. Al Just doesn’t play on that level nor have the talent too.

Hawks this year?

7th or 8th seed in the conference at best. Look for Josh to get frustrated at being forced to play with Al and demand a trade to the Lakers. Josh is now coming of age and wants a championship ring. Al really doesn’t care whether he gets a ring or not. He just wants a paycheck.

While the Atlanta Back court has changed personnel there is not a lot of confidence in Teague and DHarris is instantly the best POINT guard on the team. He is a much better thinker orchestrator than Teague.
Teague’s claim to fame is he is young.and fast, which could also qualify him to join the Army, but out side of physical qualifications nothing about Teague resembles a point guard.

The 2 most skilled positions on the court, Center and Point guard, have been the weakest for the hawks. While bringing over Harris to play point the Hawks did nothing to address the Center role.

Look for opposing teams to continue to assault and exploit the hawks in the paint, show casing Dunks over Al horford who will find his way out on a wing or perimeter rather than defend the rack.

Look for Josh, the hawks best talent, to get frustrated with the lack of championship desire on this team and demand a trade (oh Ive said that already)

Look for the hawks to fight for the 7th or 8th seed and have a legitimate chance to not make the playoffs altogether as they continue their backwards slide post Woodson.

The number one problem facing the hawks has been the hawks problem for the last 7 years.

THE HAWKS NEED A CENTER.

Funny thing, Its was published that the hawks tried 4 times this past summer to trade Al and got no takers, yet the few but loud Horford cultist on this site act as if he is the second coming of Christ.

LOL

We cant get rid of Al and we cant raise our level of play with Al so we are hopelessly stuck in an average season where at the very very best, we make it to the second round and lose. This year there is a good chance we will be fighting to make the playoffs.Hawks will win 37-44 games marginally making the playoffs (ss the roster stands now).

The better case would be to miss the playoffs, hit the lottery top 5 and have tons of cap room and spending money. That would be the best case for the hawks.

Link
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Detox

August 22nd, 2012
6:38 am

* as the roster stands now

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
8:44 pm

*What I mean is, Not a lot of transition buckets happened for Harris because They had to wait for Jefferson and set up. That’s the way Ty Corbin likes it…..

Sautee

August 22nd, 2012
8:47 pm

T-s,

You are deluding yourself if you equate a sportswriter musing about possible trade offerings, with an actual offer from one GM to another.

I DID Google all of the “trade offerings” you listed. NONE of them were any more than rumor. Not a fact to be found.

“I find your denial is motivated by your cultist worship of Al rather than the reality.”

Yeah right. Surely ALL cultists must say that the object of their cult “sucked in the 2011 playoffs”

LMFAO. If I were a cultist I’d be thrown out for being real. Here’s what I think:

Horford is a solid big man who makes good decisions. He has a decent contract compared to other centers of similar production.

If you think THAT makes me a cultist, then you certainly would belong to the Josh Smith cult. And so would I.

T-s, you have for a while now, KNOWN that my defense of Horford is less out of any kind of fanhood, and more about keeping the blog real. Yet you insist on attempting to paint me as something I am not. Keep on trying, my friend. Hey, it worked for Dick Cheney and WMDs.

What I am defending is your misinformation. If you notice, my responses to you are mostly when you have been factually in error, and NOT when you were merely opining your dislike for Horford. You have a right to say what you want, but I equally have the right to challenge the veracity of your views.

So here’s your challenge: Find just one link (so you don’t have to worry) where a team “turned down” a trade for Horford because “they didn’t want him” as you have repeatedly said.

Just one. If he was truly offered and turned down 4 or 5 times as you say, this should be easy.

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
8:49 pm

Here is the SLC Dunk SBNation blog post about it for those who want to know what i’m talking about:

http://www.slcdunk.com/2012/7/14/3158962/saying-goodbye-to-devin-harris

Weed is the Key

August 22nd, 2012
8:55 pm

” And Al Jefferson? Not tall enough to play center (gets bothered by longer post players) and not quick enough to guard or get by PF’s (or centers for that matter) lol. Leave the big anchor in Utah” – Pot head

You gonna pass the s hit back Balance Is Key or you gonna smoke it all up?

Weed is the Key

August 22nd, 2012
9:03 pm

Hey pot head, do you know you are posting another blogger as your fact base evidence?

Sautee

August 22nd, 2012
9:03 pm

“None of us can actually sit in the trade discussion and confirm what the offer was and what the turning point of the negotiations was.” – T-s

And from the same post:

“This is about as good as it gets with Al which is why he was refused in 4 trades this summer.” – T-s

Do you hear yourself? The contradiction is obvious. You’ll throw sh_t out there that you cannot confirm, as if it were fact. And turn around and say neither of us was there so we can’t confirm it.

If it’s a fact, then link us up.

But you cannot. That’s why I said it’s a flat out lie.

If I’m wrong, prove it. I’ll be glad to apologize to you and the blog. Would you do the same?

I smoke pot too

August 22nd, 2012
9:05 pm

I think we should just keep Al horford

1. were not going any where
2. we dont want to get better
3. see rules 1 and 2

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
9:08 pm

Someone obviously didn’t watch old man Tim Duncan give Al Jefferson the business in the first round of the 2012 NBA playoffs. Didn’t need a blog for that, watched it on my television.

Sautee

August 22nd, 2012
9:20 pm

OH, those rumors… they don’t count, my cultist crew will discredit those in a few minutes.

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
9:20 pm

If Micheal Cunningham (Who has Hawks media access and “sources”) tells you that something is legit and a FACT, are you going to deny it’s credibility because he informed you of it on his blog? Which makes him a “blogger”? Just wondering.

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
9:24 pm

….I’m also pretty sure the evidence on that Jazz blog was in the numbers. And the fact that that guy probably attends every Jazz home game.

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
9:29 pm

Here what I heard about Al being shopped this summer Sautee. Just these 3 times. and they dont count.

Did you find a virgin for the sacrifice yet?

• Should The Nuggets Get Involved In The Dwight Howard Drama …
nugglove.com/…/should-the-nuggets-get-involved-in-the-dwight-ho…
Jul 3, 2012 – May 8, 2012; Atlanta, GA, USA; Atlanta Hawks center Al Horford (15) … Brooklyn could obviously swing a deal involving a sign-and-trade with …
• Al Horford for Superman: Should the Hawks make that offer? | Mark …
blogs.ajc.com/…/al-horford-for-superman-should-the-hawks-make-th…
Jun 21, 2011 – Mark Bradley of the AJC wonders if the Atlanta Hawks are daring enough to make a serious trade offer — Al Horford and Kirk Hinrich, say — for …

NBA Trade Rumor – RealGM
basketball.realgm.com/news/wiretap/tags/18/NBA_Trade_Rumor
Choose at least two teams from the menus below to start your trade. …. area and Ferry

articles.boston.com/keyword/al-horford
Find breaking news, commentary, and archival information about Al Horford From … The four-team trade that sent Howard to the Lakers from Orlando basically …

Sautee

August 22nd, 2012
9:29 pm

T-s,

You don’t have to post as me (like you just did at 9:20). Just find ONE factual link that backs up your claim that 4 different teams turned down trading for him.

Just one. That’s not too difficult is it?

Sautee

August 22nd, 2012
9:32 pm

BIK, as you noted, those are all rumors. And ZERO mention of any team “not wanting” Horford.

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
9:34 pm

Damn what happened to all those Al horford trade links that was just posted. Did Cunningham’s Horford cultist take them down so that can say they do exist? This is one thought controlling blog.

Sautee lets go some where else and smoke our weed.

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
9:35 pm

That 9:29 pm post isn’t mine. I personally love Al Horford.

Horford > BLopez

Horford > JNoah

Horford > RHibbert

Horford > Al Jefferson

Horford > ABynum

:-)

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
9:39 pm

Horford > KLove

Nice try @ 9:34 pm though

LOL

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
9:41 pm

Everyone knows that Horford is going to make his Third All-Star appearance this season. Mark it down.

Bulwinkle

August 22nd, 2012
9:42 pm

Im with you sautee, Im glad you took T S links down, Any way he wasnt there how does he no why Al was rejected. maybe the hawks were asking too much for Al….like another player, who was breathing.

Randy

August 22nd, 2012
9:45 pm

I’d like to co-sign

I smoke pot too

August 22nd, 2012
9:05 pm

That is about the most intelligent post Ive read on this site.

Sautee

August 22nd, 2012
9:54 pm

T-s, I’ll be waiting and watching for you to prove me wrong.

If it is as you say, it should be easy.

Randy

August 22nd, 2012
10:09 pm

Horford>Jefferson

Sautee He Already proved you wrong bro and you took down all of those links he posted. I saw what you did .

Mediator

August 22nd, 2012
10:11 pm

hes right sautee there was 3 or for deals being shot around this summer featuring Al, why you are denying that. ?

Balance Is Key

August 22nd, 2012
10:13 pm

Sautee

August 22nd, 2012
10:15 pm

I don’t deny that there were talks. T-s, you are claiming that 4 teams “turned down” a trade with Horford. That is a flat out lie.

Prove me wrong.

AG

August 22nd, 2012
10:16 pm

Detox – so you are saying trade Al & Jeff for the expiring contract of Jefferson that is already at $15 mil and I guess resign D. Harris at $8mill ….. I love this 12/9 career stuff, but EVERY SEASON prior to last year his scoring and rebounding IMPROVED!!! Without JJ – one could expect Al to easily avg 16 ppg. I would pass all day on that trade.

Sautee

August 22nd, 2012
10:21 pm

Removed links? Sounds like distraction from the lack of proof to me.

LOL, like a blogger could reach through the internet and suddenly have administrative powers.

C’mon, T-s, if what you say is true, it should be very easy to find a link. Don’t start hiding.

AG

August 22nd, 2012
10:33 pm

I guess since Josh is the face of the franchise – Al is the new whipping boy! I think Jefferson is better than Al – but why acquire all the speed – then trade for an anchor? This team is going to be real fun to watch. I just hope LD doesn’t mess it up!

I would like Jenkins to get some PT – but just don’t know were to put him.

Sautee

August 22nd, 2012
10:41 pm

T-s,

I’m hanging it up for the evening. Have a nice night, and I hope to see a link from you that proves me wrong in the morning. I just don’t anticipate that to be the case.

Like I said earlier, I’ll be glad to apologize to you and the blog if you can prove me wrong.

Will you do the same in the face of a lack of proof?

SteveW

August 22nd, 2012
11:22 pm

Jenkins get PT if we play small ball. Start:

Al
Josh
Morrow
Lou
Teague

Bench:
Zaza
Ivan
Korver/Stevenson
Jenkins
Harris

If and when we play big,which we will almost surely do against teams with a dominate or big C, and maybe all the time, Jenkins may not get much PT.

LD has done the big/small thing before. Nothing wrong with it if it helps us win.

SteveW

August 22nd, 2012
11:47 pm

KenS – I think on the Hawks D, at least my concern is mostly the Hawks ability to deny the post ups. No amount of team D can help when you give up alot of size and/or speed at multiple positions.

You can hide 1 guy, but unless you have Javale McGee in the middle, you can’t hide multiple mismatches.

PG – I have no doubt that Teague/Harris can handle most PG’s in the League defensively. None.

SG – Here’s where the trouble starts. Lou is 6-1 175, and an unbelievably freakish athlete for that size. Tomahawk slams, catch slams, follow slams etc.

But put JJ at 6-7 240 on him, and he gets posted everytime (if JJ would for example).

Morrow is 6-5 215 – and according to the article you posted, he is at best an average defender. At best. That means he’s really a below average defender. Lacking in to many areas like speed, quickness, athleticism.

Jenkins has already been diagnosed as not a good defender. I think Danny said he could develop into an “adequate” team defender.

Then at SF, if you don’t play Josh there, you have Korver, who is a below average NBA player, especially on D, and Stevenson, who all he has is D, and is probably at this stage of his career still above average on D, but small for the 3.

If you play Morrow at the 3, he’s really too small at 6-5 215.

So I think that’s what’s meant about the D, at least from my perspective. Size mostly.

If somebody’s been trying to diss Devin, Josh, Teague, or Al on D – or even ZaZa for that matter in many machups, they are barking up the wrong tree.

But Devin Harris can’t guard the average 2 guard in the NBA – he’s too small. He just can’t handle Kobe, DWade, JJ and those guys.

SteveW

August 22nd, 2012
11:53 pm

As far as playing Josh at the 3, I think he made that quantum leap into another level of player last season. I think Josh Smith can play either the 4 or the 3, and be really good at it. Hey, he even excelled when he played the 5 last season if ya’ll remember that.

Josh Smith is an excellent NBA basketball player. And he’s versatile enough at 6-8 225 to play either the 4 or the 3. And yes, he’s like LeBron in his ability to do that. If only Josh’s jumper wasn’t broke, he’d be a Superstar, no questions asked.

SteveW

August 22nd, 2012
11:57 pm

In other words, Josh Smith playing either the 3 or the 4 is the least of my worries with this Hawks team. We have much bigger issues than that.

With that said, I think we have enough O to be a 46-36 team, and surprise some people.

doc

August 23rd, 2012
12:21 am

so MC says this:

“For three seasons Williams was the best kind of bench scorer for the Sixers: high usage, high production and good-to-reasonable efficiency while playing just 26.3 minutes per game. He did all of that while helping the Sixers defensively.”

i say this:

“rod, i can only hope the dont do to williams what they did to jamal which was to try and make a point guard out of him. also this scorer doesnt look like a matador on defense like jamal who was purely only interested in one side of the ball.”

rod says this:

“Again you obviously have not watched Lou Williams play if you think he is a good defensive player. Ask any Philly fan, they will let you know. Watched him since high school, and defense is not his strong suit. He is a scorer (SG) in a point guard body.”

durn MC, seems like rod is calling you out. care to share with us all where the data is that suggests that super lou2 is a defensive stalwart?

btw MC what do you think about danny and his commitment to analytics?

SteveW

August 23rd, 2012
12:27 am

Rod – It is funny to see the wanna be GMs on here declare Jamal as a bad player, and how no winner would want he or a player like him on their team.

Then winners lined up to get guys like him this offseason.

Lou is probably the closest thing in the NBA to Jamal. He’s just younger and shorter.

I’m glad we got him. He, Devin, and Teague are going to surprise some people around here. They’re good.

doc

August 23rd, 2012
12:38 am

stevew, not sure who declared jamal a bad player if you are referring to me? i was the one who called jamal “flip on roids” which was picked up and broadcast on 790 zone pm show as their own. i liked jamal and stood on many occasions at the phil to cheer him on. i think it is more rod demeaning lou williams than anyone demeaning jamal or saying something new about jamal.

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
12:53 am

I can say for me, the difference between Lou and Jamal in my mind is Jamal’s price tag when he was here. Jamal was making $9-11 Mil when he was a Hawk. That is much higher than what Lou will be paid this season. So I always viewed Jamal as being overpaid.

pg

August 23rd, 2012
1:50 am

Both Harris and Williams are better then Teague. I just hope Drew doesn’t blow this, this team can surprispe.

JOSH IS BEAST

August 23rd, 2012
2:56 am

u are retarded if u think me n my team are Going to be. 7 or 8 seed….all u haters will. jump on bandwagon by jan. February at latest ..y’all come out and watch ..put some balls behind ya team n buy a ticket…so maybe we won’t have to see away Team fans in OUR AND YOUR(HAWKS FANS) ARENA..PHILLIPS ARENA THAT IS..SEE YALL ROUND#HAWKS….FIRST

PEDRO EL GITANO

August 23rd, 2012
4:17 am

Lou Williams es el mayor talento hawk desde Steve Smith.Y acerca de la posición de SF creo que aún no haciendo fichaje estaría bien cubierta.Morrow,Korver,Stevenson y sobre todo Ivan Johnson pueden jugar bien en esa posición.Algunas de las mejores plantillas de nuestra historia las tuvimos con Ty Corbin de Forward titular.Y por último reclamar el fichaje de Keith Benson,creo que sería importante.
PG-HARRIS,TEAGUE(quisiera que fuera traspasado)
SG-L.WILIAMS,MORROW,JENKINS
SF-I.JOHNSON,KORVER,STEVENSON
PF-J.SMITH,SCOTT
C-HORFORD,PACHULIA,BENSON,PETRO

EmirS.

August 23rd, 2012
4:38 am

I think it’s pretty absurd to rank us number 2 in the projected standings. Fan or not, realistically speaking we are going up against an even greater East then from 2 to 3 years ago. I still see us near the bottom. High as 4 low as 7.

Lou Williams doesn’t play consistent defense. I don’t care what your stats say. We’ve seen the guy play. He’s 50-50 on plays as far as playing defense. One play he’ll hustle and the next he’ll let it go. I’m not saying his Jamal-like as far as defense. But he’s not anywhere close to being as bad.

And I wasn’t aware off the fact that people thought he wouldn’t fit in….

Ken Strickland

August 23rd, 2012
8:01 am

STEVEW-I truely understand where you’re coming from. No team, and I mean NO TEAM, will out quick or run us. As far as posting us up is concerned, especially with JJ, we double team him when he’s reached a certain point. We all know JJ will eat up clock pounding the ball to get into the position he likes, and we also know he’s a reluctant passer out of double teams.

The Miami Heat were at a height disadvantage at all but the OC position against the Thunder. They utilized team speed, quickness, athleticism, and double teams to overcome that disadvantage. DFerry learned the value of good team DEF after being with the Spurs.

Why be so reluctant to embrace the positive effects of good team DEF? The Bulls had KKorver and CBoozer, 2 of the NBAs biggest DEF liabilities. They also had SG RHamilton, who’s no where near the OFF or DEF player he once was. And no one has ever rated DRose as a DEF stallworth either.

Yet, they managed to overcome all of the individual DEF shortcomings of these players by employing a solid TEAM DEF concept that has allowed them to finish #1 & 2 defensively over the last 2yrs. Every player doesn’t have to be an above average defender to be effective. An average defender who’s above average offensively, can usually neutralize most opponents.

Too many are hungup on the idea that every player has to be an above average defender or have a premier shotblocker for the team to be effective, and that’s just not the case. If team DEF can do as much for the Bulls defensively over the last 2yrs, considering the number of average to below average defenders on their starting 5, then it can benefit us as well.

We’re a helluva lot quicker, faster, and more athletic than they are at most positions. Let’s just wait and see how the FINAL ROSTER shakes out before becoming overly concerned about height and DEF, or the assumed lack thereof. DFerry knows what this team’s missing, and he’ll address those issues before the season starts, or at least by the trade deadline, one way or another.

vava74

August 23rd, 2012
8:10 am

Ken,

Miami played Bosh who is a legit 6′11 at the C slot in the finals.

Bosh averaged in 5 games 14.6ppg 9.4rpg 1.2blk and .452 from the floor (on 36 minutes per game).

If you wish, you can argue that the Bosh’s numbers do look like a lot with Horford’s last full season numbers, however Horford has substantially more trouble getting his shots in the playoffs.

Mike is Back

August 23rd, 2012
8:22 am

MC, this guy excites me…he’s like Josh and Teague…he can impact the game in so many ways. I think Lou is taking the right approach. Hopefully Devin can do the same…when I first heard the chatter about playing Teague and Devin together…you would hope that’s in extraordinary circumstances…if the Hawks are serious about playing fast and up-tempo…they probably will have to relieve each other in most cases.

Lou said it best…Teague and Devin are on the ball guys…I think Devin value will be greater closing out games…now we have another solid guy that can help take the pressure off of Teague at the end of games…and Devin is more of a facilitator then Teague is right now…so this should be a great opportunity for Teague to play with two top caliber guys.

Given our past history at the PG position…Sounds like a good problem to have.

GO DANNY GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vava74

August 23rd, 2012
8:23 am

“getting his shots off”

AG

August 23rd, 2012
9:02 am

The more I am ready on D. Harris – the more I like his game. Even if this stage of his career he is better than JT0, we must continue to develop our young point guard. D. Harris should get 20-25 minutes between SG and PG. JT0 should still get 30-35 as well a Lou about 30-35 starting! Jenkins should get 8-12 minutes (typically at the 3 minute mark in the first through 7 minute mark of the second.

If you start Ivan, he should be replaced by Korver or Morrow. at about the 6 minute mark. ZaZa should be the next sub. Ivan can come back at PF for Josh prior to the end of the quarter. By the 7 minute mark of the 2nd quarter, all the starters should be back in the game – except Ivan. The half can end with three guard, but depending on the situation.

As you can see, although we have a lot more talent, my rotations would be very short. Like last year, when we are dusting teams by 20+ the other guys will get plenty of burn. This year, LD will have to prove he can coach.

If LD can coach this team into the top 4 in standings, and get us to at least the second round or ECF I would say sign him to a long term contract.

Ken Strickland

August 23rd, 2012
10:00 am

VALVA74-I’m not arguing or concerned about Bosh’s height because as I said, Oklahoma had a height advantage at every position except CENTER. And this will be the 2012-13 season, so none of our players will have the same difficulty getting their shorts with JJ and Marvin gone. We’ve removed the primary culprit as far as hijacking the OFF while hindering ball and player movement.

With starters JJ, Hinrich, and Marvin removed from the team, there will be an additional 22-25 shots available. It’s not remotely unreasonable to expect improvement from the remaining starters from last yrs team(JTeague, AHorford, JSmith). DHarris, assuming he starts, which is likely, is head and shoulders better than KHinrich in almost every category.

He represents a serious upgrade in speed, quickness, athleticism, penetrating ability, ability to get to the FT line, assists, DEF, as well as the ability to consistently run an uptempo fastbreaking style of OFF. Devin won’t give us the overall scoring JJ did, but he’ll give us the ball handling, quality outside shooting, assists and flexibility that JJ provided.

What he’ll add to the mix is far more speed, quickness, and athleticism. In addition to Teague and LWilliams, he’ll give us the ability to attack DEFs quickly and decisively using a penetrating ability that doesn’t require clearouts and a lot of ball pounding and standing around.

You add the type of speed, quickness, athleticism and penetrating ability possessed by a backcourt rotation of LWilliams, DHarris, and JTeague, to the exceptional outside and long range shooting ability of KKorver, AMorrow and JJenkins, you have OFF weapons that can attack any DEF from anywhere on the court.

Instead of fretting and worrying over how we’re going to stop bigger and taller players and teams, why not think about how those bigger and taller players and teams are going to stop us. With JSmith, AHorford, ZPachulia, JPetro, JTeague, DHarris, DStephenson, if he makes the team, and IJohnson, there’s not way in hell we’re going to be a bad defensively as some of you want to believe.

vava74

August 23rd, 2012
10:17 am

Ken,

You forget how easy was to beat down average teams simply by sending JJ into the paint.

He always scored when needed using his size and handles against average teams.

That height and girth advantage at the SG slot is gone.

Apart from that, it’s on the defensive side that we have now a huge deficit. JJ was big for the SG position and Marvin was well above average in size defensively (very good mobility for 6′9” / 240).

Using Miami/OKC as an example is plain lunacy for me.

Lebron is heads and shoulders above everyone else in the NBA. Wade is a first ballot all of famer, Bosh is 6′11”, long, able to play PF and C, a perennial all star and a top #20 player, Battier is one of the best defenders of the past decade…

We cannot use MIA as an example AT ALL.

O'Brien

August 23rd, 2012
10:27 am

Ken S,

When JJ is motivated, he can guard any SG outside of the top 5, and almost any PG. I think we will miss JJ’s defense, especially since he was 6’7”. How will Williams and Harris do if they have to guard 6’5’ SGs, because with Teague, Harris and Lou, they cant all guard PGs.

The Miami Heat were at a height disadvantage at all but the OC position against the Thunder. They utilized team speed, quickness, athleticism, and double teams to overcome that disadvantage..

More importantly, they used LeBron James and D-Wade to overcome that disadvantage. Replace LeBron and Wade with 2 average defenders, and see how Miami looks on defense.

And you refer to Korver in your example. Did you forget that in the playoffs 2 seasons ago, the Hawks had Jeff Teague defending Korver, and actually doing a decent job on him? And in the playoffs last year, Korver averaged less minutes than he did in the regular season, partly because of his defensive liability.

Maybe the Hawks can hide Korver’s defense in the regular seasn against bad teams. But when we play good teams, he will be exploited.

Just Joe

August 23rd, 2012
10:30 am

12-deep:

Miami – Current Atlanta – Start of Season Atlanta

Chalmers – Teague – Teague
Cole – LouWill – LouWill
Wade – Harris – Harris
Allen – Morrow – Morrow
Miller – Jenkins – Jenkins
Battier – Stevenson – Stevenson
Lewis – Korver – Korver
Jones – ???? – ????
James – Smith – Smith
Haslem – ???? – I. Johnson
Bosh – Horford – Horford
Anthony – Pachulia – Pachulia

The two rosters really match up “player types” pretty well. Miami holds the advantage in size, skill & experience at most positions, which means Atlanta’s only advantage is speed.

Does Miami replace James Jones with another big?

Is Atlanta looking for a 5th big man & a SF? And if so, who gets replaced, Stevenson, or is someone else traded (Harris or Morrow)?

Joey

August 23rd, 2012
10:34 am

Sounds like a good guy to give the ball to when opponents go into foul-mode late. He makes his FTs.

northcyde

August 23rd, 2012
10:40 am

Haven’t checked in here for a while, so let me clear up a few things.

Lou Williams last year was an above average defender ( 36% defensive FG% ), despite being traditionally a below average one. He was an excellent defender in isolation ( 29% defensive FG% ) Almost as good as JJ ( 24% FG ) and Wade ( 26% FG ) as an isolation defender last year.

He was very good in challenging spot up shooters out on the perimeter ( 33% ). He was Teague-like in his defense of the pick and roll ball handler ( 43% ), which is average to slightly below average defensively . . mainly because he’s so small and can’t fight through screens well. Overall though, Williams had a pretty good year defensively.

As pointguardslim pointed out, Lou would guard the PGs, while Holliday would normally guard the 2s when they were in the game at the same time.

Devin Harris was flat out ATROCIOUS last year on defense. He ranked 398th in the league in points per possession on defense ( 0.95 ppp ). The man he was guarding shot 46% FG overall against him, which is flat out horrible.

Devin was VERY WEAK in his pick and roll defense ( 49% FG ). And that number could’ve been even worse had Tony Parker made some jumpers off the pick and roll during the playoffs. All of those misses Parker had actually HELPED Harris’ poor defensive numbers vs the pick and roll.

Harris has a bad, bad tendency to always go underneath that pick, instead of fighting through or anticipating it at times. A decent shooting PG will always have that open 15 – 18 foot jumper because of this.

His defense on spot up shooters were a problem too ( 43% FG . . 39% 3FG ) because he’s watching the ball, while losing track of his man. That was a big problem Jamal Crawford had here. Watching clips of that dude in that particular situation, you say to yourself “WTF is he doing?”

*******************

The think people need to start addressing, is that all 3 of those guys ( Teague – Harris – Williams ) are PG size players. Somebody will have to play the 2 AND defend that position. Harris is the biggest, ( at 6 – 3 . . 192 lbs ) so he’ll have to do it. So we’re going to ask Devin to defend

- Dwyane Wade ( 6 – 4 . . . 220 lbs )
- Joe Johnson ( 6 – 7 . . . 240 lbs )
- Monte Ellis ( 6 – 3 . . 185 lbs )
- Paul George ( 6 – 8 . . . 215 lbs )
- Rip Hamilton ( 6 – 7 . . 193 lbs )
- Arron Affalo ( 6 – 5 . . . 215 lbs )
- JR Smith ( 6 – 6 . . . 220 lbs )
- Jason Richardson ( 6 – 6 . . . 225 lbs )

And those are just the East SGs. That’s not even including what he’ll see in the West.

Most of those guys aren’t going to run Devin through pick and rolls, but rather take him off isolation, being a spot up shooter or post him up. Can Devin actually handle playing the 2 more than he plays the point? And there’s absolutely NO WAY you can ask Lou to guard those guys for significant stretches.

If this team shows that they can be good enough to make the playoffs, Ferry needs to trade one of those PGs. Keep the best 2, and trade the other for a big SG or a SF who can also play SG if need be.

northcyde

August 23rd, 2012
10:58 am

The REAL PROBLEM is at SF though

- Lebron
- Melo
- Pierce
- Joe Johnson again ( when he plays SF )
- Danny Granger
- Deng

The hope of some ( and I guess Ferry ) is that we just simply outrun and outscore people. That’s the Golden State model. And it never worked for them because they had too many holes in their lineup defensively, despite throwing 3 very good offensive players at people ( Ellis – Curry – Lee ). That’s why for the good of the team, they HAD to trade either Ellis or Curry. They chose Ellis.

The Hawks may be forced to do the same thing, when it comes to our 3 good PGs.

vava74

August 23rd, 2012
11:11 am

Terence Williams could be a low risk high reward invitee to the camp.

A nice addition as an undersized SF which does not play any D.

I think it would fit our roster nicely. :-D

vava74

August 23rd, 2012
11:17 am

O’Brien
August 23rd, 2012
10:27 am

You should be fair to JJ and say that he ALWAYS defended Wade well. Always had him shooting below his % and always kept him in check.

vava74

August 23rd, 2012
11:20 am

northcyde,

Unless Harris makes a spectacular turnaround in his career, he is strictly an asset who is far easier to put on a trade than Marvin was.

Before the deadline either Teague or Harris will be traded and Harris is the logical candidate since he still has some trade value and probably one of the contenders will need him and will be willing to trade him for a first round pick (I don’t think you will get any decent player in return).

The Truth

August 23rd, 2012
11:29 am

“So we’re going to ask Devin to defend

- Dwyane Wade ( 6 – 4 . . . 220 lbs )
- Joe Johnson ( 6 – 7 . . . 240 lbs )
- Monte Ellis ( 6 – 3 . . 185 lbs )
- Paul George ( 6 – 8 . . . 215 lbs )
- Rip Hamilton ( 6 – 7 . . 193 lbs )
- Arron Affalo ( 6 – 5 . . . 215 lbs )
- JR Smith ( 6 – 6 . . . 220 lbs )
- Jason Richardson ( 6 – 6 . . . 225 lbs )” – northcyde

You forgot about Hawks guard 6′-5″ DeShawn Stevenson

I’m sure LD will use him against teams with bigger SG. But agreed, the SF in the real problem. Josh can’t be in two places at the same time.

Ken Strickland

August 23rd, 2012
11:32 am

VALVA74-I didn’t forget about JJ posting up against average DEF teams, I just didn’t see it as an issue. You still can’t seem to get past the SEEING ONLY ONE WAY OF DOING THINGS DEFENSIVELY CONCEPT. Just because we won’t be able to post a big SG like JJ doesn’t mean we can’t be just as effective at attack that same DEF.

With a 3 guard rotation of Teague, Harris, LWilliams, we’ll have the speed, quickness, and athleticism to consistently get into the lane and score, dish, or get to the FT line. Why are you so hungup on HOW we get it done, as long as we get it done. JJ IS GONE PEOPLE, so get over it and adjust to the Hawks getting things done, both offensively and defensively, in an entirely different way.

OBRIEN-You’re giving JJs current defensive ability more credit than he truely deserves. At one time, a few yrs back, your statement about his DEF prowess would have been pretty accurate. But JJ has lost a lot of his foot speed and DEF prowess. Even if he can still guard most SGs, he can’t sustain it for any extended period of time.

And in case you haven’t noticed, when JJ is motivated to play the kind of DEF you say he’s capable of playing, he tends to disappear offensively. That’s one of the main reasons he’s disappeared as a major factor in the playoffs the last few yrs. The instance where JTeague successfully guarded KKorver just goes to prove my point that speed, quickness and athleticism can often compensate for a height disadvantage.

You also proved my point when you said “THEY USED LEBRON JAMES AND D-WADE TO OVERCOME THAT DISADVANTAGE”. Well guess what, that’s called TEAM/HELP DEF, and we have the speed, quickness, and athleticism to done the same doggone thing. STOP LOOKING FOR EXCUSES. And why not let LDrew and DFerry worry about hidding Korver’s DEF issues.

With the backcourt scoring potential we have with JTeague, LWilliams, DHarris, AMorrow, and JJenkins, it’s not like we’ll be as dependent on Korver’s 3pt scoring ability as much as the Bulls were. Korver’s biggest impact will be in closing out quarters, halves and gms. With Korver’s ability to consistently score from 3pt range, as well as Jenkins and Morrow, DEFs will be forced to stay with them in critical situations.

Height of no height, they would all but eliminate the impact of help defenders like Lebron and DWade, which would open things up for Teague, Harris, and/or LWilliams to utilize their OFF skills and penetrating ability to get to the basket. Always remember, THERE’S MORE THAN ONE WAY TO SKIN A CAT, OR GET CERTAIN THINGS DONE.

KevinM

August 23rd, 2012
11:35 am

Comparing the Hawks to MIA….not so fast!

MIA is coming off back to back finals with that unbalanced, undersized roster. Then what does that say about the rest of the East? MIA would have smoked us in the playoffs worse than BOS did.

We are coming off back to back going backwards in the playoffs against an old Boston team.

Start competing with teams over .500 first before annointing us being able to match up with MIA.

SteveW, you know what Josh needs to work on this offseason? FTs, his right hand, his jumper, decision making…..does that sound like someone who is close to being LBJ?

And I’m a big Josh fan after all that! I always said for Sund to rebuild around JT and Josh and move the rest of the waste. I’m still waiting for us to move a PF.

Lots of room to get better and depth at SG is a good start. But it’s going to be the draft to get us what we need to beat MIA in this division alone, much less the East.

Ken Strickland

August 23rd, 2012
11:40 am

THE TRUTH-After 8yrs in the NBA, who do you think DHarris has been guarding? Why would you think he’s somehow been able to avoid guarding the players you mentioned? Sometimes some of you seem so hungup on looking for excuses and negative minded BS, that you can’t see the common sense answers right before your eyes.

northcyde

August 23rd, 2012
11:46 am

The Truth

August 23rd, 2012
11:29 am

“So we’re going to ask Devin to defend

- Dwyane Wade ( 6 – 4 . . . 220 lbs )
- Joe Johnson ( 6 – 7 . . . 240 lbs )
- Monte Ellis ( 6 – 3 . . 185 lbs )
- Paul George ( 6 – 8 . . . 215 lbs )
- Rip Hamilton ( 6 – 7 . . 193 lbs )
- Arron Affalo ( 6 – 5 . . . 215 lbs )
- JR Smith ( 6 – 6 . . . 220 lbs )
- Jason Richardson ( 6 – 6 . . . 225 lbs )” – northcyde

You forgot about Hawks guard 6′-5″ DeShawn Stevenson

I’m sure LD will use him against teams with bigger SG. But agreed, the SF in the real problem. Josh can’t be in two places at the same time.

************************

So how many minutes is DeShawn going to play against those bigger and better SGs? And heck, we might need DeShawn against the SFs we have to face. And if DeShawn has to play, when does Jenkins and Morrow play?

And I agree. It’s unfair to ask Josh to not only play SF, but to cover for EVERYBODY at the same “dang” time. And if Ferry thinks Josh is going to be cool with the guards handling the bulk of the offensive responsibilities, he has another thing coming. Josh is in a contract year. He’s going to try to establish himself as one of the best players in the league. To do that, he’ll have to put up numbers.

Unless the guards can make life so easy for Josh, that he can still score and shoot over 50% FG in the process, Josh is going to get “his”. And what about Horford? Is he going to sit quiet while Lou Williams jacks up a shot every 1.5 minutes?

The Truth

August 23rd, 2012
11:48 am

Ken
I think the reason the Hawks acquired guard 6′-5″ DeShawn Stevenson is mainly defensive purposes to guard bigger SG or in some cases SF to help offset lthe osses from trading JJ and Marvin.

Just Joe

August 23rd, 2012
11:50 am

I think they acquired DeShawn Stevenson because the alternative was Shelden Williams. Just kidding.

Astro Joe

August 23rd, 2012
11:54 am

I think the reason the Hawks acquired Stevenson is because they needed to make salaries match to get out of Joe’s deal. Same reason they acquired Farmar (and then sent him away), Jordan Williams (who?) and Anthony Morrow (redundant with several others on the squad). Oh and playing Stevenson ahead of Jenkins so that the Hawks can have a slightly better record before losing in the first round makes very little sense to me.

Speaking of the 17 guards on our team… I wonder if we can flip one to the Pistons? Daye would NOT require a long-term investment.

The Detroit Pistons currently have a full 15-man roster and during an online chat, Vince Ellis of the Detroit Free Press was asked if team president Joe Dumars is content with the roster.

Ellis responded: “If you look at the roster, you can tell the Pistons are in the market for backcourt help. There is usually activity after Labor Day so you could see the Pistons make a move there. But I could also see the Pistons standing pat. I get the sense that they feel they MUST do something.”

The roster is heavy with forwards and Dumars could make a deal. The likeliest forward to be dealt is Austin Daye. Head coach Lawrence Frank doesn’t seem to be a fan of Daye and Dumars could trade him for a veteran guard.

northcyde

August 23rd, 2012
11:59 am

So let’s do an experiment. Say Deshawn Stevenson has to play 16 minutes at SG against the bigger and/or elite SGs in the league. Fill out the rest of the guard minutes

PG: ??? – ???
SG: Stevenson ( 16 ) – ???

The Truth

August 23rd, 2012
12:00 pm

“And if DeShawn has to play, when does Jenkins and Morrow play?” – northcyde

LoL, when the opposition starts to play “fair” and make an evenly matched substitution which will be unlikely the entire game.

Rod from College Park

August 23rd, 2012
12:01 pm

“stevew, not sure who declared jamal a bad player if you are referring to me? i was the one who called jamal “flip on roids” which was picked up and broadcast on 790 zone pm show as their own. i liked jamal and stood on many occasions at the phil to cheer him on. i think it is more rod demeaning lou williams than anyone demeaning jamal or saying something new about jamal.”

So now I’m demeaning Lou Williams. LOL. You old cats are really funny.

Rod from College Park

August 23rd, 2012
12:04 pm

northcyde,

So who is a better defender right now, Lou Williams Or Devin Harris? I am telling you that no matter what the fake number say, Devin Harris is a much better defender than Lou Williams.

vava74

August 23rd, 2012
12:05 pm

Ken,

You are talking about world class talent on BOTH ends of the floor.

BOTH Lebron and Wade are stellar on D and both play bigger due to wingspan and jumping ability.

And it’s quite quite different to say that Wade may be a tad small at 6′4” when in fact he is 220lbs than having Harris who is a smallish 6′3” POINT GUARD having to slide and defend SG which are on average 2 inches and 20lbs heavier.

And we not smaller only there, we are MUCH smaller at the SF slot unless – as I would like to see tested – we put Ivan at the SF (his lateral quickness, super quick swiping hands, fearless demeanor and ball handling skills make him an option for a test IMO).

vava74

August 23rd, 2012
12:19 pm

SteveW,

In Rod’s defense, he said that he liked Lou (as he likes all gunners by default) and he never said anything outright negative about Lou apart from his view that he is as bad defender as Jamal.

I say that numbers never tell the whole story but stats do indicate that Lou MAY be better defensively than Jamal AND Harris.

Also, at his age, at 5 million per and being from the ATL makes Lou on paper an excellent pickup regardless of his eventual defensive issues.

And before you say anything Rod, LAST SUMMER when it was more or less known that we would not re-sign Jamal but he had not yet signed with anyone we were all discussing him, I said that:

a) If I were the HC, I would not mind at all having Jamal on my bench since I would know how to use him properly (my fear was LD using him as a PG);
b) If I were the GM, IMO Jamal was worth a contract between 4 and 5 million per year.

So, we got a younger and statistically* more efficient gunner than Jamal at precisely 5 million per AND in addition is an ATL kid which should help get more people on board supporting the Hawks.

If you weight in all factors, we should be very happy that we have Lou.

* Lou’s career stats PER MINUTE are ALL better than Jamal’s with the exception of FT% (but not FTA per minute where Lou is better by a lot), with the differential on all stats being better in favour of Lou between 5% and 20%.

If he continues to post his current PER MINUTE stats (or improves) throughout his contract he will be able to produce well above his contract’s cost.

The Truth

August 23rd, 2012
12:21 pm

“I think the reason the Hawks acquired Stevenson is because they needed to make salaries match to get out of Joe’s deal.” – AJ

I’m not so sure about this AJ. Instead of Stevenson, the Hawks possibly could have acquired Nets FA SF 6′-7″ Damion James and used some of their TA to makeup the difference. Instead the got Stevenson and used the TA on Korver. Apparently Danny thought that Stevenson was the best option but the Hawks now have a hole in their roster.

vava74

August 23rd, 2012
12:27 pm

To be perfectly fair with Jamal, his career 3PT FG% is also a tad better than Lou’s (.348 to .337).

JOSH IS BEAST

August 23rd, 2012
12:28 pm

all I’m going to say is ..finals. miami Dallas I saw deshawn stevenson handle bron…moving forward. I saw morrow score 42 pts n a single game…when last time jj scored 42?n multiple 25+ pt Game ..etc etc…y’all be hating change in Atlanta ..smh #HAWKS #1OR2. MAYBE 3RD ..n how u figure Boston got Better? ?? or anyone besides Atlanta for that matter …you will See lol..#ATLATLATL

Rod from College Park

August 23rd, 2012
12:33 pm

vava,

SteveW agrees with me about Jamal, always has. Your post should be directed at doc. Jamal’s salary should never come into play in or argument because he would have resigned here for 5 mil per, but the Hawks never offered him that. Please stop with the age stuff also. Some of the best players in this league are older and still producing. Marvin is only 20 something. He is still terrible.

vava74

August 23rd, 2012
12:39 pm

Rod,

I see that you continue to be biased against me.

Jamal had his mind set on a BIG contract (length and value). He had to be nearly left out of a job until he settled for a 5 million per contract and realized his true market value.

Also – although other factors may have obviously been key – he ended up posting HORRIBLE numbers, so he could be effectively on physical decline, so I can play the AGE card until Jamal proves me wrong and gets back to his “usual-not-so-horrible” numbers.

The Truth

August 23rd, 2012
12:40 pm

“Instead the got Stevenson and used the TE on Korver.”

vava74

August 23rd, 2012
12:46 pm

The Truth,

Probably the Nets valued Damion Jones and said to Ferry: “hey, we are taking JJ’s monster contract, so we choose the filler, not you!!!!”

Rod from College Park

August 23rd, 2012
12:59 pm

vava,

* Lou’s career stats PER MINUTE are ALL better than Jamal’s with the exception of FT% (but not FTA per minute where Lou is better by a lot), with the differential on all stats being better in favour of Lou between 5% and 20%.”

And you wonder why I keep going at you. So let me get this straight. For his career, which is more than double that of Lou Williams. Jamal is a better scorer (meaning he puts up more points, which is his job, and Lou’s for that matter), better assist guy, better rebounder, better 3 point shooter, better steals guy, and a better free throw shooter, but you love Lou Williams, and hate Jamal Crawford? Then you try to defend you position by posting some meaningless PER stats. LOL

SteveW

August 23rd, 2012
1:06 pm

Well, Devin Harris is in the Guiness Book of World records as the fastest man in basketball, having run the length of the court in 3.9 seconds.

Maybe his D suffered last season because of the construction of the Jazz team. Maybe he felt obligated to try and guard multiple positions due to lack of D in other parts of the Jazz team.

I do know:

He’s been the team captain on a squad that won 67 games

He’s been an All Star recently – 2009

He used to absolutely destroy Tony Parker with his quickness

He’s not a bad ball player

The Truth

August 23rd, 2012
1:06 pm

vava74

Technically speaking, that’s called getting “punked”. If the Hawks were the Lakers and had JJ in negotiating a trade with the Nets, they would have included Marhon Brooks in the deal and called their bluff.

Rod from College Park

August 23rd, 2012
1:08 pm

“Jamal had his mind set on a BIG contract (length and value). He had to be nearly left out of a job until he settled for a 5 million per contract and realized his true market value.”

Once again you are wrong and have no way to prove you point. You have no idea what Crawford was requesting contract wise because you don’t work for the Hawks, and you don’t know Jamal Crawford. He also was never close to not being in the NBA (LOL), and did not settle for 5 mil per that was his market value. Just like that is Lou’s market value now. Once Jamal became a off the bench guy instead of being a starter, then obviously his value went down. He was making 10 mil per based on production he put up from being a starter.

SteveW

August 23rd, 2012
1:13 pm

Devin Harris also made the Hoopshype All NBA 2nd Defensive team in 06-07. Scouting reports I read continue to refer to him has a good defender.

I think he’s going to be ok, if he’s training in the off season like he’s supposed too.

6-3 192 Fastest player in the NBA, 29 years okd – sounds like a Safety to me. Somebody call the Falcons!

Rod from College Park

August 23rd, 2012
1:20 pm

“Devin Harris also made the Hoopshype All NBA 2nd Defensive team in 06-07. Scouting reports I read continue to refer to him has a good defender.”

None of that means anything SteveW, remember northcyde’s stats say that Lou Williams is a better defender than Devin. LOL

Ken Strickland

August 23rd, 2012
1:21 pm

VALVA74-If you want to continue believing our backcourt has no chance of holding their own and defending their positions, then be my guest. The loss of JJ seems to have affected you tremendously, along with some others. I don’t care how tall or short our backcourt is as long as they take advantage of their attributes to compensate for their liabilities. That’s what good players and teams do, and we have our share of good players.

As it stands, Ferry doesn’t seem to think the size of our backcourt is as much of an issue as some of you. Can you guess who I put my faith in on this matter?

Just Joe

August 23rd, 2012
1:21 pm

The Nets included Stevenson in order to match salaries. By holding all of their free agents’ rights, they were over the cap (same situation Atlanta will be in next summer until they start renouncing free agents or their free agents sign elsewhere), and therefore they had to get within roughly $5M of Joe’s $20M salary in order to make it work. I think the free agents that could have been involved were Stevenson, Green, James, & Shelden. Green wasn’t going to take a one-year deal (he ended up with 3 guaranteed yrs & $10M), and who’s value is closer to the $2.3M needed (Stevenson, Shelden, or the injured/unproven James)? Stevenson was coming off of a $2.5M salary, and knew that the vet minimum was his only option if he didn’t take the deal, so he took it. Stevenson was not targeted by the Hawks, he was just the closest guy to the number $2.3M.

Just Joe

August 23rd, 2012
1:23 pm

We’ll know where Ferry stands on this roster in about 3 weeks, when the players we acquired in the JJ & Marvin trades become eligible to be packaged and shipped off. Isn’t it 60 days that you have to wait?

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
1:41 pm

The Hawks need Sancho Little to play SF for them, lol.

Seriously though, would anyone be against a possible Morrow for Vince Carter trade? Vince has two years left a $3 mil per season. But the second year is a team option. Carter instantly becomes the team starting SF.

A starting line up of Teague – Jenkins (I still say start the rookie) – Carter – Josh – Al, would be a formidable line up. Or keep Morrow and trade Korver for Carter.

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
1:51 pm

I actually would be for signing Tracy AND trading for Vince. Vince could start at the SF. And Tracy on the second unit would allow you to have Tracy run point on offense, with Lou and Jenkins in the backcourt. So Lou would be able to guard the opposing PG. But on offense, he’s still able to play off the ball. The lineups would be:

Starters : Teague – Harris – Carter – Josh – Al

Bench : Lou – Jenkins – TMac – Ivan – Zaza

Reserves: Petro, Jordan, Korver

KevinM

August 23rd, 2012
2:03 pm

60 days, and I agree with Truth….what we got back for Joe was garbage.
The nYets came out of that deal in fine shape.

I know the Magic got a worse tradeoff on that deal, but had the Hawks not picked up Lou, you are looking at a thin roster with few options.

I don’t like the Korver for 5M move either; he might be better than Hinrich, but not by much. I hope he gets a lot of open looks.

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
2:15 pm

The Kings are moving to Virginia Beach.

Astro Joe

August 23rd, 2012
2:24 pm

Marc J. Spears: Ex-Kings forward Donte Greene has agreed in principle to sign a contract with the Brooklyn Nets, a source tells Yahoo! Sports. Twitter

Brooklyn Nets, Donte Greene | share
Net Daily: Nets Invite Donte Greene To Camp. Deal is NON-guaranteed, say league sources. Twitter

Ball Hawk

August 23rd, 2012
2:24 pm

Sounds like Lou’s a team player,Can always use a good Team player!After next years draft I think Ferrys gonna take the Hawks to the next level! Go Hawks Go

O'Brien

August 23rd, 2012
2:29 pm

Ra’mon,

I would stay away from Vince for 2 reasons;

1) He is not a legit SF.
2) He has a guaranteed $3 mil contract for 2013. I would like to maintain as much cap space as possible for next offseason

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
2:36 pm

O’B, Vince 2013 season is a TEAM OPTION. So its not guaranteed. Also, Vince is a legit 6′6 player who played SF a lot in Dallas and Orlando, as well as Phoenix. I’m saying if that’s the best you can do with Morrow or Korver’s contract, I would take it. Not to mention, Vince has always been a class act.

O'Brien

August 23rd, 2012
2:36 pm

Northcyde,

I think Morrow will be traded before the season starts for a small forward. And after that, I think the guards who will get the most minutes are Teague, Harris, Williams, and JJ2. Stevenson is expiring and probably does not fit in the Hawks plans for 2013. Therefore, his PT will be inconsistent and situational (imo).

On average, I think the more consistent breakdown will be something like:
PG minutes: Teague – 28, Harris 16, Lou 4
SG minutes: JJ2 – 18, Lou – 24 – Harris – 6

KevinM

August 23rd, 2012
2:38 pm

I would prefer more than offense at the 3. We are already defensive challenged in the backcourt. You gotta get a defender in there somewhere, but if you just start Josh there, then what you’re really looking for is a guy who will give you 10 min/game. So that role is not a big difference in the current roster.

Astro Joe

August 23rd, 2012
2:41 pm

If there is talk of Devin starting (which is how I have interpreted some of MC’s comments), then that is further going to dilute the minutes for Jenkins. He now gets to play behind Harris, Lou AND potentially Morrow. And don’t forget that Korver will likely get SG minutes as well (if for no other reason than to keep him away from SFs). The strange thing is that we have potentially 3 lethal shooters with Morrow, Korver and Jenkins, and it may be very, very challenging to have any two of them on the floor at the same time.

KevinM

August 23rd, 2012
2:42 pm

OB, Stevenson, like Josh, Petro, Harris, Teague, Williams, Morrow, Korver and Zaza are all playing for new contracts. Throw LD in there as well.
This team had better play balls-2-the-wall the entire season.

And I see Miami is after Josh Harrellson……that would be a good move for them.
I think Danny is missing a good opp here.

KevinM

August 23rd, 2012
2:44 pm

This year’s Jenkins is going to be a mirror image of what JT got in ‘09.

Jenkins has little chance to impress LD. LD will play mind games with the rooks more than he will with the nYet rejects.

O'Brien

August 23rd, 2012
2:47 pm

Ra’mon,

With his salary being a team option next year, that does make it more acceptable to me. But although he has played SF in the past, I still think of him as a SG (maybe its all in my head).

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
2:52 pm

O’B, its like Q. Richardson says, “A wing is a wing.” I’m just looking at who may be available for the pieces we have without taking on more years in contract.

northcyde

August 23rd, 2012
2:54 pm

Rod from College Park

August 23rd, 2012
12:04 pm

northcyde,

So who is a better defender right now, Lou Williams Or Devin Harris? I am telling you that no matter what the fake number say, Devin Harris is a much better defender than Lou Williams.

************************

You need to subscribe to Synergy then, because Devin looked TERRIBLE on defense last year. At least Lou tries to recover after he’s out of position and contest shots. Devin gets beat and just stands there.

Lou was a much better man to man defender last year. Harris looked like Bibby with some of his close outs. And on pick and rolls, it’s like he doesn’t know what’s coming, despite that being the defensive play that he’s involved in about 50% of the time

Nothing “fake” about those numbers. They are what they are. Lou will be fine if he has to defend PGs. Hopefully, Devin will be better if he has to defend SGs.

Rod from College Park

August 23rd, 2012
3:13 pm

“You need to subscribe to Synergy then, because Devin looked TERRIBLE on defense last year. At least Lou tries to recover after he’s out of position and contest shots. Devin gets beat and just stands there.”

Sure. I’ll go out and subscribe today. LOL

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
3:16 pm

Guys, I actually wouldn’t mind if the Hawks renounced the rights to Ivan. I probably would prefer to have Benson (on a non guarantee contract) over Ivan.

Just Joe

August 23rd, 2012
3:32 pm

Ra’mon….not me. I will be very disappointed if Ivan isn’t back this year. It’s very refreshing in today’s NBA to see a guy play with his hustle & passion. He’s not the most skilled guy, and certainly he has some issues controlling his emotions, but he took Benson’s lunch money in camp last year & he’ll do it again this year. The guy is fearless. We need that. I’m hoping we find the SF version of Ivan soon.

Ray

August 23rd, 2012
3:40 pm

Man how about just waiting and seeing as far as I’m concerned with Lou Williams it’s always him and Iggy that get a lot of credit for most of the 76ers wins these pass couple of seasons.

Honestly with the rest of the cast we got again it’s a wait and see we don’t know what anyone can give us look at last year before Ivan became 9 to 5 or Ivan the Terrible everyone was like “MAN BAD ATTITUDE AND GOT KICKED OUT EQUAL BAD PLAYER!”

Then as they say the rest is history.

I’ll go this far I’d take Lou over Crawford right now and maybe even a few seasons ago.

Rod from College Park

August 23rd, 2012
3:59 pm

“I’ll go this far I’d take Lou over Crawford right now and maybe even a few seasons ago.”

Has nothing to do with who you would take. Jamal over his career has been better at what he does than Lou. There is no debating that. The question is how can you love Lou Williams, and hate Jamal Crawford? It makes no common sense. Lou is a smaller version of Jamal, but Jamal for his career is bettter in almost every statistical category except FG% (40% to 42%). They are the same guy eexcept Jamal has produced more over his career than Lou has so far. It’s these dummies here who bashed Jamal, but then seem to be so happy that we got Lou Williams that make no sense.

tony

August 23rd, 2012
4:22 pm

I think Lou William is the craftiest young scorer in the nba and Danny Ferry knows what the hell he is doing.

DS

August 23rd, 2012
4:26 pm

Trade idea: Devin Harris + Stephenson for Stephen Jackson ($10MM expiring) and sign a cheap backup PG

DS

August 23rd, 2012
4:29 pm

Then we have a lineup of JT0, Jenkins, Jax, Smoove, Lion. Give Jenkins the starting role for about 15 min a game and Lou coming in as the 6th man with 25+ min.

Grandad

August 23rd, 2012
4:35 pm

Teaguer, Lou, Harris = all the same player.

Harris = a little more natural pg, + better running pick & roll.
-note-
*(DH played @ Wisconsin / where one plays def or they don`t play at`all)

Post inj [Harris]; = Lou probably a slightly better defender [now].
However; the difference between the three of them [defensively],
is negligible.

-note-
We have 3 solid, quick, defenders @ the [1] -&- [2] positions.

Also, John Jenkins *’`will`’* play more as a rook than did Teague.
Rest assured; unless he is a bust, Mr Ferry will see to it.
LD will not be given a choice.

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
4:38 pm

DS, Jackson would eat LD alive. lol.

Ken Strickland

August 23rd, 2012
4:47 pm

JJ, Marvin, and Jamal are no longer with the Hawks and they aren’t coming back, so some of you need to move on. Either you’re making an issue of the players we do have, or you’re whinning over players we once had. I will be sooo glad when we can make trades with the players we got in the JJ and Marvin trades. That way we’ll know what we really have, although some will still find something negative to complain about.

Astro Joe

August 23rd, 2012
5:09 pm

Strickland, Bibby has been gone from the Hawks for 3 years and you are still traumatized by his last few months here. Surely, you are not telling other bloggers to “move on”. :lol:

O'Brien

August 23rd, 2012
5:14 pm

Question for the blog;

Over the last 2 years, how many times have you seen Harris or Lou Williams play? Personally, I haven’t seen enough of their games to comment on who is the better defender right now, and I haven’t been reading Sixers or Jazz blogs.

I think we’ll be forced to wait and see how they do defensively, given the different stages of their career.

Astro Joe

August 23rd, 2012
5:18 pm

OB, not to mention that we’re not exactly debating Michael Cooper vs. Shane Battier here… more like Flip Murray vs. Jamal Crawford. Really, does it even matter? :lol:

Just Joe

August 23rd, 2012
5:32 pm

NBA rookies were polled on who was the best shooter in the draft. 48.6% said John Jenkins. Next highest vote getter received 16% of the votes. There were a lot of SG’s in this draft.

glw

August 23rd, 2012
5:46 pm

How does Lou fit? That is a good question. If he were 6′4, the question would be so much easier to answer, but his size (or lack thereof) causes matchup concerns for the Hawks.

As it stands we have 6 potential guards in our rotation……Teague, Harris, Lou, Morrow, Jenksins, and Stevenson.

I have concerns…..If Teague and Harris is the starting backcourt, and assuming Lou comes off the bench first, who is he coming in for? Teague or Harris? I suspect simply because at times you have to have your best players on the floor, then Lou and Teague will have to play at least a handful of minutes on the floor together, but Lou is only 6′1, so if Im LD, I limit there minutes as much as possible. For matchup purposes, it might be easier to pair Teague in the starting backcourt with Morrow/Jenkins. this would allow Lou to get majority of his minutes on the floor with Devin and the 2nd team. Harris is bigger than Teague and seems the most capable to check shooting guards.

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

August 23rd, 2012
5:50 pm

Hawks going to the Eastern Conference Finals

BIG IVAN FOR PRESIDENT

Rod from College Park

August 23rd, 2012
5:55 pm

“Strickland, Bibby has been gone from the Hawks for 3 years and you are still traumatized by his last few months here. Surely, you are not telling other bloggers to “move on”.”

First time we have ever agreed.

steven a smith

August 23rd, 2012
5:56 pm

Anyone who “thinks”that Al Horford is a good fit at “Center” in the NBA, needs Drug Testing or a breathalizer, or “Both”. These Bloggers need to “move on” and come to the realization that there will be “NO CHAMPINSHIP” run in Atlanta as long as Al Horford is your starting “5.”

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

August 23rd, 2012
6:11 pm

Big Lineup

Teague
Morrow
Smoove
Horford
Zaza

Harris
Lou williams/Jenkins
Stephenson/Korver
Big Ivan
Petro/Benson

steven a smith

August 23rd, 2012
6:11 pm

DS

August 23rd, 2012
4:26 pm

Trade idea: Devin Harris + Stephenson for Stephen Jackson ($10MM expiring) and sign a cheap backup PG

Al Horford and DeShawn Stephenson for Stephen Jackson and DeJuan Blair could work even better!

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

August 23rd, 2012
6:12 pm

“Al Horford and DeShawn Stephenson for Stephen Jackson and DeJuan Blair could work even better!”

Bath Salt post

steven a smith

August 23rd, 2012
6:35 pm

What’s wrong with this trade idea Worldwide?

pointguardslim

August 23rd, 2012
6:57 pm

“Defensive, Offensive Rebounding aka What wins Championships Lineup

Teague
Morrow
Smoove
Horford
Zaza

Harris
Lou williams/Jenkins
Stephenson/Korver
Big Ivan
Petro/Benson”

Ken Strickland

August 23rd, 2012
7:00 pm

ASTRO JOE-I never thought you’d run out of things to talk about, otherwise how would you explain saying something about me that’s simply not true. I haven’t mentioned nor thought about Bibby in any capacity in yrs, and you know that. You simply had to get a dig in at me so you made up BS.

Then we have our one man crusader for Jamal Crawford chime in to support you lie. It makes you wonder, who’s the biggest fool, the fool, or the fool that agrrees with the fool.

DS

August 23rd, 2012
7:43 pm

Ramon that’s the idea.
Steven a Smith was that a joke?

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
7:44 pm

Ken, maybe we are all fools for being fans of an organizations that hasn’t brought up a championship in over 4 decades. lol.

Ken Strickland

August 23rd, 2012
7:56 pm

RA’MON-Maybe that’s the way you see yourself, but that’s not the way I see myself. I love the gm of basketball, and the Hawks don’t have to win an NBA title to continue getting my support, although that would be an extremely nice accomplishment. To me, that attitude is like saying your kid is a failure, or you decided to stop loving them just because he or she didn’t reach your expectations by getting all As, or getting a PHD, or becoming the CEO of a corporation.

I’M NOT A BANDWAGON JUMPER, and I certainly won’t make a habit of always taking a negative minded approach to the team and its players.

Ken Strickland

August 23rd, 2012
8:00 pm

Some of our so called fans seem to develop unnatural love affairs or extreme dislikes for certain players, and that’s about all they can contribute. You can’t hate the tree without hating the roots of the tree.

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
8:06 pm

“Ken, maybe we are all fools for being fans of an organizations that hasn’t brought up a championship in over 4 decades. lol.” -Ra’mon-

Ra’mon, it will be 45 years in april 2013 to be exact.. Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep this up we’ll maybe waiting as long as Methuselah… heh, heh, heh….

That’s why it pays to be a NBA fan 1st and foremost…

Ken Strickland

August 23rd, 2012
8:06 pm

I don’t see AMorrow beating out DHarris for the starting PG position. Morrow is basically a one trick pony, which is shooting 3s. He doesn’t penetrate well, and has poor ball handling and passing skills. DHarris is an above average 3pt shooter, excellent ball handler, passer, penetrator, and facilitator. Morrow would be better suited coming off the bench with LWilliams.

Slimjr

August 23rd, 2012
8:08 pm

Sorry Ra’mon. I borrowed your call sign by accident Sir.^^^^

Slimjr

August 23rd, 2012
8:16 pm

In football News: Coach Mike Smith has now lost 7 consecutive preseason games going back to the Jacksonville Jaguars 13-9 loss on [09-02-2010]..

Hey Coach, as you were saying? Superbowl or Bust?

ella

August 23rd, 2012
8:25 pm

Salute Ken Strickland!!! Ramon is a troll

Balance Is Key

August 23rd, 2012
8:29 pm

Northlied is the biggest liar and smear master ever. That what northcyde does is lies. Hence the name northlied. Notice he never put links to his stats for validation? He just talks pure blog s hit with no substance or fact.

Fire north lied now!!

ella

August 23rd, 2012
8:32 pm

Im sorry I had that backwards,

Salute !!! Ramon, Ken Strickland is a troll

Sautee

August 23rd, 2012
8:39 pm

slip o’ the fingers, eh slim?

i_am_soulstar

August 23rd, 2012
8:40 pm

6th MOTY runner-up. Will get us to the free throw line, and he makes his free throws. Decent defender. 20+ PER. 15 million for 3 years.

I guess I could argue just for argument’s sake but I really don’t see what’s worth complaining about. Esp. when getting a guy who, barring injury, is probably gonna outplay his contract.

Slimjr

August 23rd, 2012
8:43 pm

More like a Brain fart Sautee!!!! LMAO!

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
8:44 pm

KenS, I hope you understand some people post things on here in a light mindedness to enjoy the conversation. Not every thing on here is serious or always meant to be taken literal. You used the family analogy. So I’ll use one in response to you. Are you familiar with the sentiment “no one picks on my brother but me?” Finding humor in your life, is the number one remedy for many ailments in life.

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
8:46 pm

Slim which one do you think will happen first?

Falcons reach the Super Bowl or Hawks reach the ECF?

Sautee

August 23rd, 2012
8:50 pm

Ra’mon, the Falcons DID reach the Super Bowl, remember? I suppose you meant win one.

Sautee

August 23rd, 2012
8:51 pm

slim, you never answered my question:

Do you believe the lie that T-s is telling about Horford being “turned down” by 4 teams this summer?

Slimjr

August 23rd, 2012
8:52 pm

Hey will somebody ask Sautee a direct question please?

Slimjr

August 23rd, 2012
8:57 pm

That’s between you and your buddy! I’m staying out of it….

Slimjr

August 23rd, 2012
8:59 pm

Ra’mon

August 23rd, 2012
8:46 pm

Slim which one do you think will happen first?

Falcons reach the Super Bowl or Hawks reach the ECF?

Ra’mon, I know you meant present going forward with your question

Sautee

August 23rd, 2012
9:10 pm

OK, slim, then please DO stay out of it. You know exactly what I’m referring to.

glw

August 23rd, 2012
9:12 pm

Ken Strickland

August 23rd, 2012
8:06 pm

I don’t see AMorrow beating out DHarris for the starting PG position. Morrow is basically a one trick pony, which is shooting 3s. He doesn’t penetrate well, and has poor ball handling and passing skills. DHarris is an above average 3pt shooter, excellent ball handler, passer, penetrator, and facilitator. Morrow would be better suited coming off the bench with LWilliams.

****************************************************

@Ken Strickland

But under this scenario if you start Harris and Teague, that means you come off the bench with Lou and Morrow which would mean that Lou would essentially become the backup pg. Not sure that is the most ideal situation.

I guess though the 2nd unit would be pretty solid

pg- Lou
sg= Morrow/Jenkins
sf- Korver
pf- Ivan
c – Zaza

I guess Zaza and Ivan could grab all the rebounds and let Korver, Lou and Morrow/Jenkins get as many shots up as they can.

Slimjr

August 23rd, 2012
9:26 pm

And brilliant question indeed..

The Falcons are 4-10 against the winners. Past two seasons.
The Falcons have lost 7 straight preseason games going back to 2010.
They are 0-3 in the playoffs[ With Mattie ICE as the face of the Franchise] with a horrific beatdown, 0-points against a 27th ranked defense the Giants featured..

With Danny at the helm of his new look Hawks he will get there first..

Mattie Ice will be looking for a clip board soon…Mr. Blank is already shopping..

Yea we have seen this B4[The Melt downs].. Oh the Humanity…

ella

August 23rd, 2012
9:28 pm

Ken Strickland is gay.

Now on to basketball. Harris will be the starting point guard. Teague has been a project too long. Lou Will become the shooting guard with Teague and Morrow coming of the bench

Harris/Teague
William/Morrow.
Korver/Morrow
Josh/Ivan
Zaza/Hoford/ Ivan

Crickets

August 23rd, 2012
9:45 pm

Boy there where so many Al lovers like sautee that hated Josh because he was a better power foward than Al could ever be, then last year after a working hard in the off-season Josh talents and potential came shinning through. Now All the Al lovers who have a special hate for Josh because he is better than Al are making sounds like crickets. Thats what we hear from the Al loving josh haters….

crickets…crickets… crickets…

Crickets

August 23rd, 2012
9:47 pm

** :) there were

steven a smith

August 23rd, 2012
9:48 pm

I do like Al coming off the bench. He could put up 6th man of the year kind of “Nimbers” coming off the benc(25-30 minutes)

steven a smith

August 23rd, 2012
9:56 pm

I wish some of these Al Horford lovers would sell Dominique Wilkens some suits and try and try to collect the money(LMAO).

Ken Strickland

August 23rd, 2012
9:59 pm

Who ever you are “ella” you are wrong. I am no longer gay. I quit that almost 2 years ago. But I guess you are, or how else would you know about that?

Sautee

August 23rd, 2012
10:09 pm

You will not find a post where I’m hating on Josh. But someone’s agenda would like it to be so.

I think Josh is by far the best PF on the Hawks. I’ve never wavered from that position, despite the efforts of some to paint me differently. I’m one of the few who believes that the Hawks can prosper with Josh at the 4 and Al at the 5. I’d LOVE to see what a top flight coach could do with the two of them playing a high-low set. Both good passers who make good decisions.

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
10:17 pm

Al is a piece of crap sautee and you everyone knows that Josh is not only the best power forward on this team, hes one of the very best in the NBA. You are just linking Al’s name with his to help Al. Al sucks and needs to be cut or traded. We are tried of the same ol Al same ol results. Stop trying to piggy back Josh’s success with Al’s injury prone non performances. Yes, you are one of the few who doesn’t want Al traded or cut. He will help the hawks best like slimjr said, coming off the bench. -

Sautee

August 23rd, 2012
10:21 pm

Something tells me that wasn’t Ra’mon at 10:17.

ella

August 23rd, 2012
10:21 pm

Sautee you are hating on Josh by reducing him to Al’s level of performance. That’s covert hating.

Sautee

August 23rd, 2012
10:22 pm

Hey, T-s, did you find the link yet?

Ra'mon

August 23rd, 2012
10:25 pm

I don’t think that’s sautee at 10:21 pm. its probably one of them undercover trolls lurking around like they do.

Which troll are you sautee?

Sautee

August 23rd, 2012
10:26 pm

Im a fake link troll who will whoop your as s

ella

August 23rd, 2012
10:29 pm

Sautee

August 23rd, 2012
10:33 pm

This is my final post of the evening. Have a good one, T-s, and find that link, if you can, that shows me that I’m wrong about your lying story of Horford being turned down by 4 teams.

As I said, find it , and I’ll apologize to you and the blog for saying you lied.

Will you apologize if there IS no link?

Also, that was not me at 10:26

Sautee

August 23rd, 2012
10:41 pm

I will deny always that the hawks were trying to trade Al Horford.

I heart Al and Al heart me.

ella

August 23rd, 2012
10:44 pm

Sautee Al horford’s name came up often in trade discussions this past summer, Michael Cunningham admitted as much.

Oh thats right. You arent really sautee, you are one of them trolls.

willSmith

August 23rd, 2012
11:45 pm

Billy Knight loved long 6-8 wing players, Danny Ferry loves ‘I’ll shoot if I’m sort of open’ 6-3 guards. Maybe if we need a Billy Ferry or a Danny Knight as our GM :)

JOSH IS BEAST

August 24th, 2012
2:37 am

wtf …number 1 or 2 in east. …period ..

vava74

August 24th, 2012
3:42 am

Rod:

“Lou is a smaller version of Jamal, but Jamal for his career is bettter in almost every statistical category except FG% (40% to 42%). They are the same guy eexcept Jamal has produced more over his career than Lou has so far. It’s these dummies here who bashed Jamal, but then seem to be so happy that we got Lou Williams that make no sense.”

That an OUTRIGHT nonsense from you yet again.

Jamal has BETTER TOTALS simply because he PLAYED MORE MINUTES ON LOTTERY BOUND TEAMS.

PER MINUTE stats are perfectly valid for comparison when the sample is big enough.

Lou has been posting consistently better numbers than Jamal whilst playing for a playoff team.

A differential between .400 and .420 in FG% is HUGE in the NBA.

Also, Lou gets to the line more than Jamal making his usage production much higher.

Jamal only had ONE really good season, his first with us, which was from an offensive point of view, outstanding and really deserving of praise.

His second – maybe due to LD’s insistence that he played PG – was already going down and last year in Portland was pure cr@p (PG minutes cannot justify how bad he played).

As for your overall disregard about advanced stats, why don’t you join Sund and the rest of the ASG retreads and retire?

Ferry is coming in and setting up an analytics department like ALL successful franchises. I guess that all those franchises are wrong when they resort to advanced stats…

:-D what a fool

vava74

August 24th, 2012
4:04 am

Rod,

About Jamal’s contract: it was more or less evident that Jamal had in mind a salary figure and a number of contract years which was not matched by anyone in the league.

He was one of the last free agents to get signed last year. That is a pretty direct consequence of his expectations not being realistic.

You mention that his role as a sub made his stock drop in relation to him being a starter. Again, that is pure cr@p.

Jamal had is best season as a sixth man just the year prior to his free agency, so his stock should be at a high point.

The reality is that Jamal’s age and track record as a particularly bad defender made his stock drop to the realistic level for which he ended up signing with POR.

Again, I ALWAYS said that a player like Jamal is useful in a roster, but IMO with his defensive ineptitude his role should be diminished to about 20/25mpg rather than 30+.

My expectations of Lou are realistic, although I am convinced that he has more “team success” in his mind than Jamal in spite of his gunner mentality AND additionally I am very happy with the fact that he is YOUNG and from the ATL.

On a per minute basis (with a decent enough sample, playing for a playoff team during the past 3 seasons) Lou has posted better FTA per minute, better Assists per minute, better Rebounds per minute, better (less) turnovers per minute – and improving every year – better steals per minute, better Blocks per minute, all whilst shooting overall from the field 5% better (differential between .400 and .420).

Is this per minute advantage derived from playing less minutes and having a lesser responsibility than Jamal had in lottery teams?

Perhaps. I am not saying that stats tell all, merely that we have reasons to think that Lou’s game is going up and that Jamal’s game is going down.

The harsh reality is that Jamal has been traded left and right from team to team and never made a positive impact on any of his stops with the exception of the Hawks were he found a team which had already made it to the playoffs two years in a row.

Lou, on the contrary, was a MAIN FACTOR in PHI’s playoff bound seasons. He had a positive impact on his team’s success, so that should be also a factor to be considered.

Finally, Lou comes in @ 5 million per, making him an affordable and promising gunner, rather than a retread going down as the Clippers IMO will find out.

Wanna do an over/under “virtual wage” on his FG%? I say that he will not shoot better than .415 this coming year, Paul or no Paul by his side.

Buddy Grizzard

August 24th, 2012
5:17 am

Or, to put it another way, vava, who has a better chance of making an All-Star team this year, Lou or JC1?

vava74

August 24th, 2012
6:04 am

Buddy,

My guess is neither has any real chance, but there is a glimpse of possibility that Lou does whilst Jamal has zero chance IMO.

It’s not out of this world to conjecture that – eventually due to an injury – Lou is pushed into a bigger role and averages 20+ points and gets selected.

However, I don’t think it will happen. I think it is more likely that with an extended role Lou may shoot worse shots and become less efficient.

Mike is Back

August 24th, 2012
8:37 am

MC, with your previous stint with Miami…I know you are sitting back chuckling about the comparison of the Hawks current roster…which is a work in progress…to the Miami HEAT…very funny.lol

There will easily be four or five teams that could finish from 4th to 8th end the East…and the Hawks will be one of them…you want hear Miami mention in that category.

However, like everyone else…really really looking forward to upcoming season for HAWKS…Danny has given me a reason to believe…JOSH is my guy…and I think he can give us BETWEEN 25- 30 points a game…THAT’S of course when he is dialed in.

GO DANNY GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buddy Grizzard

August 24th, 2012
9:03 am

“I think it is more likely that with an extended role Lou may shoot worse shots and become less efficient.”

Well, think about this. Lou Williams has never played with an offensive player as good as Josh Smith OR Al Horford. There was a lot of pressure on Williams to score baskets because the 76ers were so offensively challenged.

As a Hawk, none of that pressure is there. In fact, Williams will have an easier time scoring as a Hawk because opposing defenses won’t be able to focus as much attention on him as they did when he was the leading scorer for the 76ers. In addition, Josh and Al are both excellent passers for their position.

To top it all off, Joe Johnson and his 18ppg are gone. There is a void in perimeter scoring waiting to be filled, and Williams is the most qualified player to fill it. So if Lou Williams can lead his team in scoring as the primary option without a good secondary option, what do you think he can do as the third option with less attention from the defense?

Dreamin

August 24th, 2012
9:16 am

“MC, with your previous stint with Miami…I know you are sitting back chuckling about the comparison of the Hawks current roster…which is a work in progress…to the Miami HEAT…very funny.lol”

“Stupid is as stupid does”

As the World turns

August 24th, 2012
9:19 am

Does not Miami have two active future Hall of Fame players on their roster.

vava74

August 24th, 2012
10:14 am

Buddy,

“Well, think about this. Lou Williams has never played with an offensive player as good as Josh Smith OR Al Horford. There was a lot of pressure on Williams to score baskets because the 76ers were so offensively challenged.”

I disagree.

Although I am a Josh fan and was a proponent of the “make Josh #1 option on offense” in order to test him on a “make or break” strategy to either allow him to take that next step into stardom or fail and allow him to realize that he is better suited as supporting player, the reality is that:

A) That test was not done, so I am not yet sure if Josh can be consistently effective as option #1.

B) I don’t think Al is ANYWHERE close to being a legit #2 option on offense now that JJ and all the heat (double and triple teams) he attracted is gone.

If anything, Lou will have to be the focus of our offense for stretches in order to do precisely what JJ did (with the advantage that get gets to the line) which was to attract defenses and allow limited offensive players (like Al) good clean shots.

So we are talking about Lou having to be during at least a substantial portion of his minutes on the floor the #1 option and at worse a high usage #2.

KevinM

August 24th, 2012
10:27 am

We are about to see what type of player Lou Williams is and I think we are going to be very pleased with the results. I see him increasing his minutes and he will be able to match Joe’s numbers easily based on him increasing his FTAs with his minutes. Its hard to fathom he goes to the line far more often than Joe did.
I think a Josh/Teague/Al/Lou/Zaza combination could be a good one to match up with other teams. I pick Stevenson as our 6th man if we don’t make any more roster moves and we deal with LD’s fair-share offense.

KevinM

August 24th, 2012
10:36 am

Having Al’s name or anyone else’s name coming up in trade talks is a no brainer. If your guys aren’t being discussed, then they have no value.

Every one of our guys’ names should be in some form of trade discussions.

vava74

August 24th, 2012
10:39 am

Buddy,

Al’s offensive game is limited:

1. Set shots from elbow and baseline (I would say, accounting for at least 45% of his offense);
2. Pick ‘n pop shots (about 15% of his offense)
3. Put-backs, dunks and lay ups when trailing fast breaks or off quick offense (about 20% of his buckets);
4. Driving jump hooks and other post moves (about 15% of his buckets)
5. Pick ‘n roll dunks (about 5% of his buckets)

IMO, his pick n pop action is still a tad too slow due to his release

And he has also suffered from not being the beneficiary of sufficiently competent PG play – Bibby was a good pick n roll PG but he was getting so slow that defenses often simply had their big men switching on him since most (if not virtually all) big men in the league were able to keep in front of him, so the pick n roll and pick n pop plays were often disrupted.

vava74

August 24th, 2012
10:41 am

Horford’s offense during 2010/11:

http://www.82games.com/1011/10ATL13.HTM

67% of his buckets came off jump shots.

These jump shots were – in the vast majority – the result of ball movement and double and triple teams being sent to cover JJ, Jamal and Josh.

Buddy Grizzard

August 24th, 2012
12:29 pm

“I pick Stevenson as our 6th man.”

I like your starting lineup but I predict they will make Lou the 6th man. He’s viable competition for Harden and if he wins the award it’s a PR win for the organization. It remains to be seen if Stevenson has enough left in the tank to crack the top 10 for this roster, much less the top 6.

“Al’s offensive game is limited.”

All your criticisms are noted and validated, but Al is nonetheless a better offensive player than Iguodala, the only All-Star Lou Williams played with last year. This year Lou will be playing with two potential All-Stars, Josh and Al, both of whom are better on offense than Iguodala. And, your criticisms nonwithstanding, Al did score as many 4th-quarter baskets in the Celtics series as Josh and Joe combined, despite playing fewer games. Al may need his offense created for him as opposed to having a post-up game like Josh, or shot creation ability like Lou. But the fact is, Al gets buckets.

MsDee

August 24th, 2012
12:51 pm

I totally agree, Buddy Grizzard when it comes to Horford getting buckets. Mann oh Mann, folks on here are gonna be truly surprised how well Horford will score the ball this season with JJohnson gone. Horford WILL be the #2 option on the team cause with great passers like Josh AND Harris on this team, Horford WILL finish around the basket, unlike Zaza, tho I like Zaza but mann, he just cant finish. But my boi, Horford can and he WILL avg close to 18-20ppg a game..MARK MY WORDS!! He DOESN’T have to have a post game with excellent passers in Josh and Harris. He’s our CENTER, in case ya didnt know, he doesn’t HAVE to have a post game, just DEFEND and REBOUND!! Yall Horford bashers will be kissing his feet come playoffs time!!

O'Brien

August 24th, 2012
12:53 pm

KevinM,

I dont want Lou chasing SGs around, and I dont want Josh playing SF.

drmaryb.(""_*).

August 24th, 2012
2:45 pm

Welcome Home Louis Williams!

i dont blog here anymore, you can find me on twitter or on MY grind! scroll the troll, poor thing – it has no identity. (she winks)

MsDee

August 24th, 2012
4:50 pm

what’s yo twitter drmary?

Ken Strickland

August 26th, 2012
1:27 pm

DRMARYB-Greetings my SWEET THING. You’re correct, there is a lot of IGNORANT TRASH on these blogs, and it get’s tiring.