Atlanta Hawks: Joe Johnson’s Atlanta house on the market for $4.7 million
Will Joe throw in the car? (Photo: estately.com)
Former Hawks guard Joe Johnson is like many of the rest of us: relocating for his job and looking to sell his crib. Most of us aren’t putting our house on the market for $4.7 million, but still.
The listing at estately.com notes J.J.’s “grand estate” includes eight bedrooms and eight full baths among its 13,822 square feet. There’s a weight room, a recording studio, and a basement spa that appears to include a salon with a barber’s chair (helping to explain why J.J.’s waves always were so tight).
Personally, I would never buy a place with a weak Walk Score (at least it’s ITP, though). Then again, if I could afford this mansion, someone else would run my errands and I’m pretty sure I’d have a few friends willing to move in visit every once in a while.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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276 comments Add your comment
jamal
August 15th, 2012
1:02 pm
What a Pimp!
MsDee
August 15th, 2012
1:04 pm
Wow!!
MC, where is his tanker truck? He might want to sale that too, no need for THAT vehicle in NY.
MsDee
August 15th, 2012
1:05 pm
8 bathrooms?? Who was he living with? The falcons/hawks cheerleaders??
allen212
August 15th, 2012
1:07 pm
He actually had an Atlanta house? He never acted like he was in any way part of the community… and to heck with living ITP… lol
Ra'mon
August 15th, 2012
1:08 pm
MsDee, “Come on Man. This is New York!” lol. I love that commercial lol
Goat
August 15th, 2012
1:14 pm
He gave 2 local interviews but had a recording studio in his house?
johansoon
August 15th, 2012
1:20 pm
That Challenger you see pictured was done by Injected Engineering. They are awesome, speaking from personal experience.
BosnianBaller
August 15th, 2012
1:21 pm
Come back to ATL Joe!!
BigTimeTECHFan
August 15th, 2012
1:22 pm
$4.7 million will only get him 5 BR and 2 baths in NY. Have fun Joe
mike
August 15th, 2012
1:22 pm
compared to other young athletes houses it is very tasteful and looks like his decorator is very good…glad he didn’t go cliche and put up a bunch of jersey in frames all over the wall everywhere.. also this guy has the sickest car game in ATL (phantoms, benzes, crazy trucks, etc)
Rowdy
August 15th, 2012
1:30 pm
Lets record some Joe!
http://www.reverbnation.com/notquitedevils
chin
August 15th, 2012
1:35 pm
Property Taxes $46,000+ per year. Whew.
It’s beautiful, if a bit monochromatic.
JB
August 15th, 2012
1:44 pm
This house was built by Renaissance Development per tax records. renbuilder.com… looks like a top buckhead builder.
Dawg Haus
August 15th, 2012
1:49 pm
With all that money the Hawks were throwing at him, he better have bought himself a sweet crib.
OTP
August 15th, 2012
1:52 pm
I’ll take it!
knowledgable
August 15th, 2012
1:52 pm
Joe–tell us why you flunked out of U. of Arkansas–you flagrant moron–no one flunks out of that place unless they are beyond stupid—oh,I forgot I was talking to JJ–
ChAnGe 33
August 15th, 2012
2:11 pm
Amazing, the terminology this reporter used to describe what Joe Johnson is selling! Instead of using (selling his house or home), but chose to use selling his crib. I want to know if he was reporting about a professional golf player selling his house, or home what terminology he would’ve to used?
Hilliard McDermmit
August 15th, 2012
2:12 pm
Sports figures always have the ugliest houses. Nice but geez, it is so typical and boring.
chc4
August 15th, 2012
2:13 pm
Lucky for him that price point is really selling. Hahahahaha!
AG
August 15th, 2012
2:16 pm
Change 33.. As I read I was thinking the same thing!
Hilliard McDermmit
August 15th, 2012
2:17 pm
Would you have been offended ChAnGe33 if they were reporting on a French guy selling his Chateau or an Italian selling his Villa? Get over it you bleeding heart.
Chesty LaRue
August 15th, 2012
2:17 pm
Is that a Ford Maverick?
$320 million Powerball: What would you do with winnings? | The Biz Beat
August 15th, 2012
2:20 pm
[...] according to Forbes. Or if you’re looking for something a little smaller and closer to home, former Hawks coach Joe Johnson’s 13,822-square-foot Old Londberry community home in northwest Atlanta is for sale for a mere $4.7 [...]
Steve
August 15th, 2012
2:21 pm
Think I might go put an offer in this place this weekend! I already spoke to Obama and he told me he would help pay for it if I can’t!
Carlos
August 15th, 2012
2:25 pm
bet he didn’t have to play defense in that bedroom.
Carl Farvman
August 15th, 2012
2:27 pm
Amazing, the terminology this reporter used to describe what Joe Johnson is selling! Instead of using (selling his house or home), but chose to use selling his crib. I want to know if he was reporting about a professional golf player selling his house, or home what terminology he would’ve to used?
Yeah, the crib comment jumped out at me. Is the writer attempting to be hip? Weird stuff. Probably a middle-aged white guy with wing tipped shoes,white shirt,tie,pinstrip 3-piece suit right out of the 70s.
SWAT Native
August 15th, 2012
2:29 pm
As Barry Bonds would say, that is major cribbage. And yes, MC, if you pay the asking price, I’d bet he’d throw in that Charger.
oldfart
August 15th, 2012
2:31 pm
The house really isn’t worth that kind of money but I understand it was about to go into free agency.
JayD
August 15th, 2012
2:37 pm
Even if he did flunk out…. he grosses more that you….. Whos the moron???? HATERS!
Really?
August 15th, 2012
2:38 pm
@knowledgable So how long have you personally known Joe?
Really?
August 15th, 2012
2:40 pm
@JayD He didnt flunk out, he simply left early like a good majority of the college players do these days. Mr. I’m So “knowledgable” is just running off at the mouth.
Glenn
August 15th, 2012
2:41 pm
That house isn’t worth that …….Maybe The Nets GM will buy it .
VinnyD
August 15th, 2012
2:45 pm
I think it is a very tastefully done home. Whoever he hired to do it was pretty good.
VinnyD
August 15th, 2012
2:45 pm
I think it is a very tastefully done home. Whoever he hired to do it was pretty good.
TexasBoy
August 15th, 2012
2:59 pm
I think Mitt Romney should buy it with some of his $250 Million that is overseas bank accounts. Oh… and then he can let that geek he chose for a running mate move in
Tenn9mmD
August 15th, 2012
3:00 pm
The negative comments are usually stated when one is disgusted at his or her parents because the dog got 99% of the attention. Basically, the 10% directed their way was primarily “Go To Bed, I Hate You, or Kid So Ugly Put Him/Her in the Dog House and let Skipper Inside. So I will not respond with negative comments, however, I want to let them know God Still Loves You…..
MC is black
August 15th, 2012
3:03 pm
A crib is an infant bed in American English (English: cot).
tim
August 15th, 2012
3:15 pm
I see he gettoed his car.
I betcha he has at least one purple wall in that house
Tight curls Mr Cunningham? Must be a black thang.
Diego
August 15th, 2012
3:16 pm
Hey, sensitive liberals, Michael Cunningham basically is the Hawks regular beat writer. So don’t get your undies in a wad and try reading the sports page now and then.
Art Vandelay
August 15th, 2012
3:21 pm
Amazing how a short piece about a house for sale turns into an opportunity for the Red State crowd to whine about Obama, as though he’s the reason our economy is in the sh!tter. Folks, turn off Faux News and stop repeating talking points as though you have any idea what you’re talking about. And get ready for four more years of Obama in the White House (I know how that infuriates you), because Romney/Ryan is one of the most unelectable tickets in Presidential campaign history…right up there with McCain/Palin.
Jason
August 15th, 2012
3:25 pm
art he IS the reason the unemployment rate is high and gdp is dismal. DUH. His own words…I don’t deserve to be reelected if the unemployment rate stays above 8%. Not surprised idiots like yourself don’t have a clue how the economy works. That 5 trillion he’s blown through sure did create so many jobs!!
Stuart
August 15th, 2012
3:29 pm
That looks like a pad that two or three families could live in. Does it come with a pool.
pm
August 15th, 2012
3:29 pm
He’ll get about 35% of what he paid for that house (maybe he’ll give it over to the bank…!)… that’s after a long wait. Try to remember this and let’s see! That’s what occurs when these ballplayers think they can transact a business deal. umm-hmmm.
HONEYBOOBOO!
August 15th, 2012
3:32 pm
@TIM~a little jealousy in that ole trailer park huh? dont talk you betta redneckanize~a dolla make me holla…Utah is prettier plus I heard u can have more than one wife~u big dummy
random
August 15th, 2012
3:34 pm
@Carl Farvman
Lmao, the writer is black you imbecile
slaughdog
August 15th, 2012
3:34 pm
Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is a sport blog. To the racist, uneducated,unemployed inbreds on this site who play with their sisters, why do mention PRESIDENT OBAMA when venting? Oh,I forgot-ist’s so,so easy to HATE when you still living in the past.
dan the nerd
August 15th, 2012
3:44 pm
Does anyone else find it funny that someone that loves isolation as much as Joe would have a house with eight bedrooms?
random
August 15th, 2012
3:45 pm
slaughdog ikr they came out of no where lol, this is a sports blog not for some governmental debate or w/e
dan the nerd
August 15th, 2012
3:45 pm
As soon as I saw the microphone I had an image of Joe and Marvin singing a duet of Islands in the Stream.
Now I can’t get the image or the song out of my head!
Masters Degree
August 15th, 2012
3:51 pm
@jason name calling shows intelligence. How about you factor in the war that was going on when he took office and the global slow down in your dissertation there buddy. So I guess a global crappy economy has nothing to do with it… it is all Obama… Oblamers.
mountain_jim
August 15th, 2012
3:54 pm
Romney lost my vote with these extremely irritating wall-to-wall mouse-over audio-filled ads on these ajc sports pages every frackin day
Conservative
August 15th, 2012
3:54 pm
This guy is a joke1 He is a waste of life!!!!
JayD
August 15th, 2012
3:55 pm
Maybe MC wasn’t talking to you
C Jae of EAV
August 15th, 2012
4:00 pm
They forgot to mention the custom made 1,000 square foot shoe closet with biometric security doors.
I guess that’s what you do when you’re paid a $100 million dollar salary and have nothing else to do with your money.
Its a great home!
August 15th, 2012
4:03 pm
I worked on it and it is loaded with details and goodies. 250K kitchen and 200K master bathroom.
trishaDishawareagle
August 15th, 2012
4:06 pm
This coincides with Obamas amnesty for illegal aliens..maybe 250 illegals can pool their landscaping, unlicensed taxi and taco truck earnings and buy it and turn it into la casa bonita
Jay
August 15th, 2012
4:10 pm
It’s always Obama’a fault isn’t it….before you start talking about how much money Obama spent in THIS COUNTRY maybe you should check and see how much money George Bush spent in OTHER COUNTRIES!!! Remember the war in Iraq that wasn’t paid for because he said we would get our money from their oil reserves and the countless number of lives we lost for a war that was sold to you red state idiots as in immediate threat!!! LOL
Art Vandelay
August 15th, 2012
4:10 pm
Yes, he’s the reason. He didn’t inherit a massive recession caused by Bush’s wars and tax cuts, and the GOP hasn’t filibustered every single piece of legislation that’s been put in front of them. Nice reality you have there.
Peter
August 15th, 2012
4:34 pm
What a wonderful looking house……. I am sure he really enjoyed it.
Now hopefully all Hawks fans will enjoy the new team, and some real BALL MOVEMENT !
Get Out!
August 15th, 2012
4:43 pm
I hope it sits around empty for years. What a complete piece of trash Johnson is.
JSS
August 15th, 2012
4:46 pm
Ha ha, you nuts turned an article about a MacMansion into a teaparty rally, Only in Atlanta!!!
outspoken1
August 15th, 2012
4:46 pm
who da hell is joe johnson anyways?
Buddy Grizzard
August 15th, 2012
4:54 pm
FTPB:
“Last yrs success was the result of bench players, namely Zaza, Pargo, WGreen, and IJohnson, stepping up and having solid seasons.” – Ken S.
Really? Are you really giving credit to Pargo and Green rather than Josh Smith, who had a monster season and picked up the slack for JJ AND All-NBA while they missed time?
marcus
August 15th, 2012
4:54 pm
what a joke! highest paid player in the league and he lived like a king, but he played like a pauper. kudos to danny ferry for getting that clown out of atlanta, too bad the only way he could do it was back dooring his fellow alum from duke. billy king is so stupid he’ll probably be the one who buys johnson’s house, probably pay him more than what it’s worth.
random
August 15th, 2012
4:57 pm
@ J S S
lmao
JB
August 15th, 2012
5:13 pm
His life, his money. Hope he saves some. Looking at these guys over the years with 50-60 million dollars running through their hands in a 10 year period and get out of pro sports broke. Haven’t bought a pro ticket in 20 years. I guess I still support the system with my cable bill.
Astro Joe
August 15th, 2012
5:23 pm
I wonder how many of us purchased a house that is about 30% of our annual salary? Probably not many (if any).
Kem
August 15th, 2012
5:43 pm
Marcus, You were referring to Billy Knight not Billy King. I don’t think either person went to Duke. Back to the topic…. nice crib.
D
August 15th, 2012
5:49 pm
Joe was actually banging a former hawks cheerleader
jealousy
August 15th, 2012
5:51 pm
wow, the HATERS are really going in on this one… hes a multi-millionaire. where do you expect him to live???
Rita Lawson's son
August 15th, 2012
5:57 pm
Come on man, 25 photos and not one bookshelf! We got to do better!
prison mike
August 15th, 2012
6:27 pm
I’m assuming he paid around 4 million for it. That’s like a months worth of work. Since it isn’t so lavish, he should sell it relatively quick.
“(helping to explain why J.J.’s waves always were so tight).”
What is this MC…
Fladawg
August 15th, 2012
6:31 pm
Astro Joe… What point are you trying to make?
KevinM
August 15th, 2012
6:47 pm
Here are some aerial shots of Joe’s home…..looks like he’s living within his means….
http://www.celebritydetective.com/Celebrity_Homes_Joe-Johnson-house-Atlanta-GA.html
House built in ‘01 and I can see why he chose to stay here and sign a max deal. This time, he didn’t have the control.
And the recording studio was probably for the talent reality show he was putting together…..we need a few more of those don’t we?
Bushwacked
August 15th, 2012
7:30 pm
Haters, nothing but haters..You retards need to crawl under a rock. Stuck on stupid, you ignoramuses…
Joe White
August 15th, 2012
7:36 pm
Typical. Get a little bit of money and they ‘jus gots to spends it on all sorts of cars, womens, and houses. Life sho is fine!
Bushwacked
August 15th, 2012
7:36 pm
Ignoramus- singular
Ignoramuses- plural
“Ignoramus et ignorabimus
The Latin maxim ignoramus et ignorabimus, meaning “we do not know and will not know”.
Bushwacked
August 15th, 2012
7:39 pm
Joe Stupid; its called capitalism…
I MUS WRITE
August 15th, 2012
7:43 pm
Way too mch house for one man.Guess ol Joe likes big things…The House, The 30 Gallon Truck….Too bad his game wasnt big when we needed the most….THE PLAYOFFS
Dreamin
August 15th, 2012
7:51 pm
Buddy Grizzard
August 15th, 2012
4:54 pm
FTPB:
“Last yrs success was the result of bench players, namely Zaza, Pargo, WGreen, and IJohnson, stepping up and having solid seasons.” – Ken S.
“Really? Are you really giving credit to Pargo and Green rather than Josh Smith, who had a monster season and picked up the slack for JJ AND All-NBA while they missed time?” Buddy G.
Guess Mister Know-it-all, dont-know-it-all?
Dreamin
August 15th, 2012
7:55 pm
Buddy, Josh gets no props from him..All NBA is his boo…
Joe Johnson Selling Atlanta Mansion For $4.7 Million | Robert Littal Presents BlackSportsOnline
August 15th, 2012
8:16 pm
[...] Johnson leaving the ATL and needs you to take his crib off his hands. Former Hawks guard Joe Johnson is like many of the rest of us: relocating for his job and looking [...]
Numba1fan
August 15th, 2012
8:54 pm
I simply love it when I read or see anything about a Black Athlete, Celebrity or Entertainer ending up being completely broke, behind on child support for his 1/2 dozen kids each with different project queen mamas and getting evicted and becoming homeless. T.O, Hollyfield, OCHOCINCO etc.Too stupid to figure out that nothing lasts forever. It just makes me feel warm all over. You can dress em up but you can’t take em out. SMILE!
dap01
August 15th, 2012
8:57 pm
Who cares about JJ’s house? What’s going on with the Hawks?
JOSH IS BEAST
August 15th, 2012
9:03 pm
all I know is …..LET’S GO HAWKS HAWKS HAWKS ..DAMMIT!!!!
JOSH IS BEAST
August 15th, 2012
9:07 pm
u Think holyfield broke? ??? lol I doubt that homefry..dont believe what tv n irs says…if u ask the irs I am brokeeeeee bigtime but I can pay cash for whatever I WANT PERIOD SOOO….
Mitt "the Twit" Romney
August 15th, 2012
9:12 pm
Kind of small for my style. From the size of it; that might work as a guest house
Slimjr
August 15th, 2012
9:32 pm
You know what will suck numba one fanatic? IF ISO visits his former team and drops 30 points on them..Guess your smile will turn into a frown Genius..
Gotta luv it when our Country is 15-200 trillion in debt and you cant buy a clue?
You wont be warm and fuzzy wh
Slimjr
August 15th, 2012
9:35 pm
–when it [hits the fan] for everybody….
poor subject
August 15th, 2012
10:05 pm
What has that got to do with the hawks getting a center?
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
August 15th, 2012
10:12 pm
Its bad when you JJ’s house becomes a blog topic. When does training camp start?
Rich Subject
August 15th, 2012
10:12 pm
They have two Centers
Guess who?
Najeh Davenpoop
August 15th, 2012
10:51 pm
“MC, where is his tanker truck? He might want to sale that too, no need for THAT vehicle in NY.”
Haha you beat me to it. WTF is he going to do with that global warming machine in Brooklyn?
Slimjr
August 15th, 2012
10:53 pm
Fri 2 HOUSTON 7:30
Sun 4 @Oklahoma City 7:00
Wed 7 INDIANA 7:30
Fri 9 MIAMI 7:30
Sun 11 @LA Clippers 3:30
Mon 12 @Portland 10:00
Wed 14 @Golden State 10:30
Fri 16 @Sacramento 10:00
4-4 after 1st 8 games would be awesome..Lower the bar….
Najeh Davenpoop
August 15th, 2012
10:54 pm
Gotta love the Internet, where an offhand use of fairly mainstream hip hop slang turns a blog about a basketball player’s house into a political (and racist) discussion. Kyle Wingfield’s blog is that way so kindly get the political BS out of here.
WHEN ARE THEY MOVING ?????
August 15th, 2012
11:43 pm
ALL THE WORTHLESS hawks NEED TO SELL THEIR HOMES AND MOVE TO SEATTLE WHEN THE TEAM FINALLY GETS IT ACT TOGATHER AND MOVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GET OUT OF THIS TOWN hawks AND TAKE THE STUPID nba WITH YOU, ATLANTA DOES NOT NEED A CRAP FRANCHISE & LYING OWNERS LIKE ATLANTA STUPID GROUP !!!!!!
MOVE, WHO REALLY CARES ????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
August 16th, 2012
12:47 am
FIRE LD
BIG DOG
August 16th, 2012
1:12 am
JUST DAM
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
BIG DOG
August 16th, 2012
1:15 am
Once Joe go New York, he be shaking his dam head talking about dam i miss the ATL.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
BIG DOG
August 16th, 2012
1:23 am
3,822 Square Feet House in New York 3bed rooms 2 bath 1 car Garage is 4mill, I BE DAM
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Whatever
August 16th, 2012
3:44 am
Michael Cunningham is black. He interviewed Joe. I am not going to question his use of the word “crib”. If he was Michael Cunningham white and it wasn’t in quotations, I would question the use of the word.
Just Joe
August 16th, 2012
6:05 am
Just read the Josh Smith for Pau Gasol trade rumor article from Tuesday. Sound like pure speculation. Makes Lakers younger and improves their chances of re-signing Dwight in the offseason.
I think Ferry would love to have Pau Gasol on this team, but not at the expense of Josh Smith.
Barak Unemployment
August 16th, 2012
6:36 am
Joe flourishes as most colored folk struggle with unemployment, poverty and crime
RipDog
August 16th, 2012
7:43 am
So he has a laundramat, a beauty salon, and a recording studio. Shouldn’t he have a basketball court since he’s a basketball player?
JSS
August 16th, 2012
8:25 am
The Tea party rally continues… Don’t forget your sheet and hood at the door…
Bushwacked
August 16th, 2012
9:40 am
Enter your comments here
Bushwacked
August 16th, 2012
9:57 am
who ran up a 200 trillion dollar debt dumb azz?
The whole Country is struggling except for a few.
O'Brien
August 16th, 2012
10:09 am
FTPB,
doc, Najeh,
The milk dud (Cabrera) was terrible when he was with the Braves. He goes out to SF, and was awesome for them. Now we know why. He tested positive for an illegal substance, and was suspended 50 games by MLB.
O'Brien
August 16th, 2012
10:20 am
FTPB,
Hawksfancents95,
Who on this blog has ever said anything about Al being the main feature on a finals team? We have all accepted him for what he is is. A good complimentary player, best suited as a 3rd option (imo). You are the one that keeps harping on what he is not.
You would prefer McGee over Al, although Javale’s career average is 9 pts, 6 rebs, and 1.8 blocks (with a career high of 12, 9 and 2)? Given his size, why hasn’t he averaged more rebounds?
Plus he hasn’t always been the best teammate (although he seems to have done well with a change of scenery in Denver).
Don’t get me wrong. I like McGee too. But I need to see more of him before choosing him over Al.
I also agree that Josh is the better PF (compared to Al), so I do not want Al at PF. I want Al working on his game to improve as a center. One thing to keep in mind though, is that Al will make $12 mil. Josh will probably make at least $16mil, so he will get paid accordingly.
Don
August 16th, 2012
10:37 am
I hope the home is not like Joe, high price tag but underwhelming on the inside.
JT's Hoops Blog
August 16th, 2012
10:41 am
With a house that size and so much space, that’s a pretty good bargain. Look at houses that size on the market in Miami or Los Angeles: they go for 4 or 5 times as much.
Buckeye
August 16th, 2012
10:43 am
Oh that evil 1%er, Joe.
Over/Under on Joe;s bankruptsy date?
June, 2020.
kwooden1
August 16th, 2012
10:54 am
Nice House!, can I get one of those in the 100K range?
Just Joe
August 16th, 2012
11:05 am
I do think that as a non-tax paying team, that the Hawks will have to eventually choose between Josh & Al. One may eventually have to go, and here’s why:
The most-likely formula for bulding a non-tax roster would be 2 max-type players (avg $17.5M each), 4 role players (avg $6M each), and 8 veteran/rookie level players (avg $1.5M each). Those totals come to $71M.
So if the Hawks wanted to use this formula, Josh could be one of our max players, ZaZa, Teague, and LouWill could be 3 of our role players. Where would Al fit?
Having Al locked in at $12M and Josh as one of your max players, forces you in to another roster format: 3 sub-max (avg $15M each), 2 role players (avg $6M each), and 9 veteran/rookie level players (avg $1.5M each). Totals $70.5M.
I know it all depends on the players that fit in to the max ($17.5M avg) & sub-max ($15M avg) slots, but you have to think about this before locking Josh in long term with Al.
Josh at $16.5M, Player XXX at $18.5M, and 4 role players (Teague, LouWill, ZaZa, ???) –OR– Al at $12M, Player XXX (Josh?) at $16.5M, Player YYY at $16.5M, and 2 role players (Teague & LouWill).
Which roster has the better shot at winning a title (because that should be the ultimate goal)?
Najeh Davenpoop
August 16th, 2012
11:17 am
“The milk dud (Cabrera) was terrible when he was with the Braves. He goes out to SF, and was awesome for them. Now we know why. He tested positive for an illegal substance, and was suspended 50 games by MLB.”
Couldn’t have happened to a bigger ass hole.
Astro Joe
August 16th, 2012
11:37 am
OB, still a great trade for the Braves. We sent the pitcher who had one good year for us to the Yankees for Melk-Man and Vizcaino. We then flip Vizcaino to the Cubs for Maholm and Johnson. Maholm looks like a solid #3 type pitcher… and so far hasn’t wilted under the glare of a pennant race. Johnson seems like the kind of player the Braves will keep long term (at a reasonable salary) and Maholm is signed through next season.
hawksfancents95
August 16th, 2012
11:38 am
O’Brien
Ken S, Sautee and I were discussing my thoughts on AL. I have not harped on AL or demeaned him as a player/person. I am simply stating I do not think his contract at 12 mill a year is helping us with what I see as his true value is. I want to win an NBA championship here in ATL and I think with AL’s value around the league he can get us a great asset, either a 20 ppg scorer or a top 5 lottery pick. I think Josh should be our PF moving forward and I don’t think it is in our best interest to keep AL as a 6′10 C.
Also I never have seen anyone on here say AL as their feature player on a finals caliber team, I said he is not a top 3 guy on that kind of team, looks at these teams and tell me if AL could crack their top 3 best players..(MIA LBJ DW3 CB1)(LAL KB24 DH12 SN13 PG16) (OKC KD35 RW0 JH13) (BOS PP34 RR9 KG5) (NYK CA15 AS1 TC6) (LAC CP3 BG32 DJ11) (SA MG20 TD21 TP9) and a few teams he might crack based on your opinion BRKN,CHI,IND. Im just sayingt at 12 Mill he is using that space where he is considered a top 3 player.
KevinM
August 16th, 2012
11:48 am
MC, can you get to Danny and see if he has any interest in a very good big man, Josh Harrellson? He has just been waived by Houston, who have too many bodies. Harrellson played very well for the Knicks last year, and has a very good motor.
He is as cheap as cheap comes, at 762K. He will worth the pickup for this year’s bench. He can provide depth and gets more done than Petro could do for us this year….at a much cheaper cost.
KevinM
August 16th, 2012
11:55 am
IMO, there’s no way we will be able to pay Josh an amount that keeps us flexible to bring in elite talent. Saying that, we have to bring in more talent that will not cost us what Josh will eventually end up costing.
Mephistopheles
August 16th, 2012
12:01 pm
This is a sports forum , not a platform for you to air you political ideologies or my your life is total f.up . Go somewhere else with that nonsense.
Slimjr
August 16th, 2012
12:12 pm
Just Joe, hawksfancents95 is on to something like yourself..
You two are thinking and projecting like a proactive competent GM!
We know with All-NBA limited skills that this guy cant carry a Franchise at all. HE is a 4th or 5th option at best…ECF is not in the cards with this guy starting for your team unless he has a Super Star playing next to him..
Danny knows he has great trade value being overrated as an All-Star player..I believe at the appropriate time he will use that card and trade him to advance this team to its first ECF appearance….
Stay tune.
Slimjr
August 16th, 2012
12:24 pm
3-5 first 8 games is reasonable. 5 road games? Whew…..
hawksfancents95
August 16th, 2012
12:37 pm
slim jr
funny, i just looked at their schedule on their webiste(hawks)and i think they will go 10-4. losing to okc,mia,lac and maybe a game to some lottery team. 10-4 for sure though.
Slimjr
August 16th, 2012
12:38 pm
28-47 against the winners with Al as your 2nd or 3rd option sounds about right.Keep the streak alive….
1968-Present…..Yawn
Slimjr
August 16th, 2012
12:39 pm
Dude I hope your right Sir!
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
12:48 pm
I like an Al for Al trade, plus 1 more Hawk to make the “nimbers” match.
Al Jefferson for Al Horford. Could be a “Win” for both organizations.
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
12:58 pm
Al Jefferson has an expiring contract. This would be an excellent way to “move” Horford’s contract. That would of course leave the ATL with only one bad contract, Josh Smith.
O'Brien
August 16th, 2012
1:05 pm
AJ,
Agreed. Plus Vizcaino might be injury prone.
Hawksfancents95,
If we can find a good trade partner, I am ok trading Al too. The problem is finding a good match (imo).
KevinM
August 16th, 2012
1:12 pm
“steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
12:48 pm
I like an Al for Al trade, plus 1 more Hawk to make the “nimbers” match.
Al Jefferson for Al Horford. Could be a “Win” for both organizations.”
SAS, after what we just did to them? We gave them 2 years of Marvin-mania! There’s no way they deal with us again.
Astro Joe
August 16th, 2012
1:36 pm
And why is there a need to “dump” Horford’s contract? because we lost in the first round last season?
Ra'mon
August 16th, 2012
1:42 pm
O’B, What would you think about a possible (maybe highly unlikely) Al for Bargnani trade with Toronto? The salaries match. And Bargnani would be the one PF that allows Josh to move to the SF position. Also it saves the Hawks a few million dollars. Even this season, a front line of Josh – Bargnani – Zaza is pretty good. The Hawks may be able to squeeze a draft pick out of Toronto also.
Heisenberg
August 16th, 2012
1:56 pm
With a 20% down payment the monthly payments on a 30 year jumbo are roughly $23,121.00. But you gotta have a credit score of at least 740.
Bounce
August 16th, 2012
2:12 pm
Hey Heisenburg, long walk/short pier awaits you off the coast of Savannah…Jaws is hungry for a fat over weight couch potatoe..
Bounce
August 16th, 2012
2:29 pm
JSS
August 15th, 2012
4:46 pm
“Ha ha, you nuts turned an article about a MacMansion into a teaparty rally, Only in Atlanta!!”
JSS, you and I know that Georgia was founded as a penal colony for prisoners from Great Britain.
Guess what they weren’t?
Some of these bloggers/teabaggers can trace their family lineage back to those good ‘ole’ days.
Its no wonder why they are pissed off after 300 plus years and counting.
KevinM
August 16th, 2012
2:34 pm
“Heisenberg
August 16th, 2012
1:56 pm
With a 20% down payment the monthly payments on a 30 year jumbo are roughly $23,121.00. But you gotta have a credit score of at least 740.”
If that is today’s rates, what do you think Joe’s paying when he bought it back in ‘01? Did he sensibly pay the house off?
The reason I say that is that when Ed Hartwell built a house in Duluth a few years ago, he paid very little down after signing with the Falcons. And despite his 5yr/25M deal, he paid very little down on a 3M house with 30K monthly payments. That is quite a payment for any level.
KevinM
August 16th, 2012
2:42 pm
“Ra’mon
August 16th, 2012
1:42 pm
O’B, What would you think about a possible (maybe highly unlikely) Al for Bargnani trade with Toronto? The salaries match. And Bargnani would be the one PF that allows Josh to move to the SF position. Also it saves the Hawks a few million dollars. Even this season, a front line of Josh – Bargnani – Zaza is pretty good. The Hawks may be able to squeeze a draft pick out of Toronto also.”
If you’re thinking a #1, I believe Toronto sent their pick to Houston in the Lowery deal for this upcoming season.
Ra'mon
August 16th, 2012
2:47 pm
KevinM, I think even without the draft pick, it may be a pretty even deal, and favorable for the Hawks.
nash
August 16th, 2012
3:05 pm
Say what you want to people that is one nice house but I don’t understand the hole recording studio thing. Thank you Hawks fans for funding his life style
Ken Strickland
August 16th, 2012
3:20 pm
For all of you HORFORD HATERS, and sudden Al Jefferson fans, consider this. 3 yrs prior to the Jazz acquiring Al Jefferson, their record was 07-08 54-28, 08-09 48-34, 09-10 53-29. Their 2 yr record after acquiring him has been 10-11 39-43, and 11-12 36-30. He also had very little impact on his 2 previous teams, the Celtics and Timberwolves.
You guys can revel in you ignorance and Horford hating all you want, but only an absolute moron would trade an All NBA center with 2yrs remaining on his contract for a slow, unathletic, no impact center who would cost $3M more and is in the final yr of his contract.
doc
August 16th, 2012
3:26 pm
najeh knew you would love the confirmation about melkey. nice call.
ob, i have long thought peds were a huge issue for a long time. maybe they ought to institute a 20% increase in performance clause that mandates automatic weekly testing. not sure if some of these tailspin second halfers dont do the ped off season then dwindle after big starts.
stlll think it is a travesty that murph among others from the pre roid era arent in the hall. they played on astro turf that ruined knees, accelerated heat indexes increasing fatigue and were like playing with fences as large as kansas to try and hit em over.
Grandad
August 16th, 2012
3:35 pm
So now we`re tryin` to trade Al;
due to a fairly reasonable contract;
so we can overpay another _?_ to come here.
Makes sense. *[sarcastically spoken]
Where do you folks come up with this stuff ?
Al is a “Bird [already] in the Hand”.
`Tis unfathomable how you folks on the blog undervalue the guy !
However, since someone brought up the name;
Al Jefferson [also underrated] perhaps the most underrated player
in the League … being Un-Restricted next yr …;
would and should be our [#1-b] target next yr after Chris Paul [1-a].
In the meantime one does not trade assets for a parlay.
Ra'mon
August 16th, 2012
3:46 pm
Ken, I like how you bypassed the fact that the Jazz has played those two seasons since, without Boozer, Jerry Sloan, and Kirenlenko. However, with a rebuilt roster, the Jazz still were lead to the playoffs by Jefferson. And his first year there, they were only 2 games under .500. I truly don’t think Al or Al or that much better than each other all around. However, I do think Jefferson is in the top 5-6 post players in offense. The question is can he stay healthy.
I think most people are thinking about trading Al’s contract, and attempting to start all the way over with less than $10 Million on the books for the off season.
Ra'mon
August 16th, 2012
3:48 pm
G’D, what do you think of a Al for Bargnani deal?
Astro Joe
August 16th, 2012
3:54 pm
Ra’mon, the hawks will have room to sign 2 mega free agents next summer (not including Josh). Josh, because we own his Bird Rights, would fit outside of the ‘external free agent bucket”. IMO, we won;t find 3 players in free agency that are better than Al. So trading him for a chance to sign a 3rd FA who likely won;t be better makeslittle sense to me. Ferry has lined things up in a manner that will allow him to evaluate Josh, Al, Teague, Zaza and Jenkins (5 potential long-term options) while also having plenty of cap space to move next summer. IMO, dumping a productive player with a good contract prior to that evaluation taking place doesn’t make sense. Bargnani will NOT get this team into the ECF this season, so what’s the point… to give a guy who may not sign long-term a better short-term ffit?
Ra'mon
August 16th, 2012
4:10 pm
AJ, Bargnani’s salary is LESS than Horford’s. Also Bargnani has 4 more seasons left on his current contract. Bargnani averages close to $10-12 million on his other contracts. So his contract is even more favorable than Horford’s. And though different areas, his production is as good or better than Horford’s. James Harden is not a mega free agent to me. In fact, Harden still reminds me of a younger Joe Johnson. However, even if you decided this off season to bring in CP3 and Harden, and you re-sign Josh and Zaza, you’re immediately left with a line up of CP3, Harden, Josh, Bargnani, and Zaza. When you factor in the age of Boston, and the age of key players on the Knicks. THAT roster could be the 2nd best in the East. So Bargnani is cheaper, younger, and has more upside than Al. How would that not be a better deal? Also you still have Teague on the bench for one more year at least (if not dealt) along with Lou, and Jenkins. Bargnani is a 7′0 Kukoc, except for younger than Toni was when he finally came over.
Just Joe
August 16th, 2012
4:15 pm
Heres my question on Al:
Can he match up with every-team-in-the-league’s opposing center? When was the last time that he even tried to match up against Dwight Howard or Andrew Bynum? If he can’t, then he requires his team to keep a starter-quality backup center on their bench (ZaZa), who will have to be paid more than the traditional backup center.
I’m an Al Horford fan, but as a $12M very good role player, he is going to make it very difficult to build a championship squad WITH Josh.
My point earlier was not to trade Josh or trade Al or trade both, but rather that it is going to be very difficult to build a champion WITH BOTH, IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO PAY THE LUXURY TAX.
These $10M+ role player contracts that are being given out (Hibbert, McGee, Chandler, Noah, Jordan, etc…) will eventually hold teams back unless they decide to write the big check. If you have one of those players and don’t want to be a luxury tax team, you better not miss on any of your draft picks or free agent pick-ups.
Sautee
August 16th, 2012
4:16 pm
“Bargnani will NOT get this team into the ECF this season, so what’s the point… to give a guy who may not sign long-term a better short-term ffit?”
The point is that Ra’mon would like Horford off the team. The dualistic thinking on this blog seems to have him and others convinced that if Horford is NOT good enough, then ANY replacement would be better.
Of course there are third, fourth, and fifth ways of thinking about it, but cest’ la vie.
KevinZ
August 16th, 2012
4:17 pm
That is Sharif Abdur Rahims old house
Ra'mon
August 16th, 2012
4:18 pm
AJ, I never said I was for a Jefferson deal. I said, that may be one of the reasons others are for it. And you’re correct, you may not sign a third player better than Al, so its a gamble. However, I think you could possibly sign a third AND fourth player collectively better than Al. An $8 million a year player (for instance Ginobli) to go along with a $5 million a year player (for instance Zaza) will probably be better than just Al. And those players are to go along with Josh and the other 2 max players.
When you are starting over, I feel you have to be open to ALL ideas, and wonder. I probably wouldn’t trade Al for Jefferson because of the extra $3 million Jefferson makes this season.
Just Joe
August 16th, 2012
4:26 pm
Josh Smith’s free agency will be tricky. His cap hold for his bird rights will be roughly $15M. Combine that with Horford (12), LouWill (5), Teague (3.5 QO), Jenkins (1), and draft picks (2?), and you get $38.5M+/-. That leaves room for one (1) $17M+/- player if you renounce your rights to ZaZa, Morrow, Harris, Korver, and any of our other free agents that finish the year with us. If you renounce Josh’s rights and sign him for less than his cap hold (what Wade did in Miami), then you might be able to sign a $20M player, but Josh’s new deal must fit under the cap as well. Would Josh take that much less to fit Howard in at $20M+?
Just Joe
August 16th, 2012
4:32 pm
We will also have to move quickly in free agency before someone offers Teague a contract and we have to make a decision to either let him walk or match and eat up more of our cap space.
Ra'mon
August 16th, 2012
4:36 pm
Sautee, I don’t want to just give away Horford. However, there are a number of players or combination of players I value higher than Horford, along with a 2013 top 5 draft pick. Bargnani is a 7′0 PF/C who averaged 19 and 5. So if the plan was to bring in two max players along with re-signing Josh, than yes I would want Bargnani to be the FOURTH option over Horford. I would trade Horford for Paul Pierce tomorrow if it was feasible. I would trade him for Gay or Granger as well. I definitely would love to see Horford traded for Chandler, Marc Gasol, or Kevin Love. But it won’t happen. I would prefer my starting C to have a little more fight than what Horford has displayed in the last 3 seasons. If Horford was still ‘BOSS’, I would want him on my team any day. But this Al won’t cut it in the playoffs without more fight. That’s why even though Al is clearly more talented, I like Zaza a little more when he’s on the court. I don’t know if it changed when he had the terrible foul in Toronto years ago, or what. But Horford isn’t that BULLY that the Hawks need their center to be.
Sautee, if Charlotte would take it right now, I would trade Josh for their 2013 pick with NO top three protection on it. There’s not a person in the Hawks locker room that I wouldn’t trade for a top 3 pick in next year’s draft. However, if asked who would be the last player I would trade, it would be Josh.
Rufus1
August 16th, 2012
4:43 pm
The Jazz wanted AL for Dwill, do you think they wouldn’t trade Jefferson in a minute for AL. The only reason that trade isn’t complete.. because Ferry isn’t that STUPID.
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
4:44 pm
Ken Strickland
August 16th, 2012
3:20 pm
For all of you HORFORD HATERS, and sudden Al Jefferson fans, consider this. 3 yrs prior to the Jazz acquiring Al Jefferson
I personally do not “hate” Al Horford or his game, however, he would not start for me if i were an NBA Head coach. I think that most on “this Blog” agree that he is not living up to his contract. I would rather have JR Smith and Trevor Ariza. Carl Landry and Ronnie Brewer. There were numerous other free agent options that would have been cheaper and more productive tha “AL”
Ra'mon
August 16th, 2012
4:45 pm
Shabazz Muhammed is the next super star who will be drafted. And Nerlens Noel, Cody Zeller, Rudy Gobert, and Isaiah Austin (Austin has a 9′3 standing reach) are each pieces of a cornerstone that you build around (and they each happen to play center). In my mind, the easiest way in to the top 5 of the draft is through Horford, because Josh will not get such a high pick without being extended before the deal. So yes, I would trade Horford for the draft rights for any of those 5 players mentioned.
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
4:46 pm
AL Horford is “Not’ an NBA Allstar. He is just “Average Al” I like him as a “Back-up Center/PF”
He does not deserve starter minutes. Al should be a 25 minutes a night guy!
Bounce
August 16th, 2012
4:47 pm
Why does this “intellect” scream all the darn time when he reads opposing views?
Wusa, Wusa, Wusa.
Ra'mon
August 16th, 2012
4:48 pm
LAL traded a starting center in his prime for the draft rights to Kobe, before he was Kobe, without a good back up center. Grizzlies traded a PF in his prime for the draft rights to P. Gasol, even though Shareef was their best player in their franchise history at the time.
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
4:51 pm
Is Ken Strickland really Al Horford? I do not understand why this guy does not get it. Al Horford is a scrub as a starter. He is very good coming off the bench. Al does not have the “Herat” of a champion. If you could give AL, Tim Tebow’s heart, you would have a heck of a Basketball player.
Bounce
August 16th, 2012
4:51 pm
Lets be real, ALL-Star Al is not talented enough to be a cornerstone piece to build a Championship around. See Olympics…
Bounce
August 16th, 2012
4:53 pm
A blogger called him out as a overrated Allstar. I concur.
Bounce
August 16th, 2012
4:56 pm
Allstar means carry your team for stretches..Can he do that on the regular?
Melvin
August 16th, 2012
5:00 pm
Ra’mon,
I like Shabazz. I said several blogs ago, I think he will be the next superstart. He looks like a left handed Kobe.
Sautee
August 16th, 2012
5:02 pm
Ramon, I’ve stated MANY times that I’d trade Horford, Josh, or any other Hawk in a trade that made us a better team. However, Bargnani’s contract is only for 3 more years, not 4, and he would only save $3M over two years while averaging 5 rebounds? And BTW, Bargnani is a year OLDER than Al.
And IF you had Bargnani as your 4th option, as you suggested, surely you don’t believe he’d get 20 ppg? He’s used to getting 15+ GFA, how would he adjust to getting 8-10? Also, have you compared their FG%?
Horford shoots a career .537%, while Andrea is at .440%. If you had to have one as a 3rd or 4th option, wouldn’t you want a 3rd or 4th option with the highest FG% you could get, to maximize the fewer FGA?
Sautee
August 16th, 2012
5:04 pm
“Lets be real, ALL-Star Al is not talented enough to be a cornerstone piece to build a Championship around.” – Bounce
Let’s be real. Bounce is slimjr, and we all wonder why he doesn’t just say the same things under his own handle. LOL, like we couldn’t tell?
Bounce
August 16th, 2012
5:04 pm
Man 19 and 5 sounds better than 12 and 8 all day.
Sautee
August 16th, 2012
5:08 pm
“LAL traded a starting center in his prime for the draft rights to Kobe, before he was Kobe, without a good back up center. Grizzlies traded a PF in his prime for the draft rights to P. Gasol, even though Shareef was their best player in their franchise history at the time.” – Ra’mon
Excellent point, Ra’mon. If we could get an unprotected lottery pick for any player on the Hawks, I’d think hard about it. As long as we’re shakin’ the tree…
But that’s likely a fantasy.
JaeEvolution
August 16th, 2012
6:48 pm
http://www.nba.com/hoop/lowpost/the_60_million_question_2012_08_14.html
Insightful read on the tax penalties facing the Lakers unless they make a move.
Also we have little to no chance for Shabazz unless trading up for a HIGH pick because he is top 3 lock. Tony Mitchell of North Texas is just a physical specimen. He would take some molding but Ferry seems focused more on player development now than in years past. In a stepback year I’d rather us miss playoffs and have a chance at this guy because he is a lottery lock for 2013 draft and his potential is absolutely through the roof.
JaeEvolution
August 16th, 2012
6:52 pm
Just found this little tidbit of information.
It’s noteworthy that Oklahoma City Thunder general manager Sam Presti, San Antonio Spurs vice president of basketball operations Danny Ferry and two Dallas Mavericks scouts were among the NBA horde at the Super Pit in the two-point loss to Middle Tennessee, when Mitchell missed a potential tying tip-in high above the rim in the final seconds.
Danny has his eyes on this guy, because he sees the potential he has.
JaeEvolution
August 16th, 2012
6:53 pm
Article if you are interested:
http://espn.go.com/dallas/story/_/id/7635882/north-texas-mean-green-forward-tony-mitchell-creating-buzz-nba-circles
pointguardslim
August 16th, 2012
7:40 pm
HAWKSFANSINCE95-Having 2 6′ 9″ post players (6′8 250 Lebron and 6′11 Chris Bosh) didn’t stop the Miami Heat from winning the NBA championship by defeating the much bigger frontline of the Thunder. Stop focusing on my enthusiasm and start paying attention to the common sense facts and examples I’ve been presenting. You’re trying to justify your unjustifiable opinions and stance on Horford’s talents and contribution to the success of the Hawks.
——-
People are pressing you on Al Ken, but damn If you aint justifying our small lineup with Lebron and Horford. They the Hall of Fame Heat players are outliers.
Astro Joe
August 16th, 2012
7:41 pm
Ra’mon, the Hawks have historically been an average rebounding team (in the best years), Bargnani will NOT help the cause. I see him as a step backwards, not even a lateral step, from Horford (and I actually like Bargnani).
I stand by what I have been saying for months, I’m not trading Al unless I know that Josh is staying. So until there is an extension signed, Horford stays until next summer. I’m just not of the opinion that guys who can efficiently deliver 16-18 points, 10 boards, and 4-5 assists/blocks per game grow on trees.
Just Joe, the third option on most teams is a “role Player”. If the Hawks can’t afford a $12M/year contract for their third wheel, then they need to get out of the professional basketball business. Horford will have to battle Bynum in the East, that’s it. And Hibbert, Noah, KG or okafor will have big problems guarding Bynum. Having a designated “thumper” for the 3-4 old-school centers is far better than trading a very capable player because while successful against 25+ other teams, he needs help against 3-5 teams. That’s the old “chasing the 20% mistake”.
I want Ferry to watch this group with his own eyes before making a trade. He has done what was needed to create cap flexibility, at this point, the only thing left is to evaluate the talent on the court and determine how he will shape the team.
pointguardslim
August 16th, 2012
7:45 pm
Bargnani now? No F’ng thanks. Hawks are starved for some stars but ppg does not equal star.
I wonder how Bargnani would do flanked by Zaza and Josh but Al’s trade value is a lot more than Bargnani. I rather have Andersen or you know Jon Leuer ;D
Astro Joe
August 16th, 2012
7:46 pm
Ra’mon, I suspect that those trades (Divac & SAR) were done by GMs who had at least 1 season to see for themselves that they would not go anywhere with those guys.
IMO, any Horford trade to be considered now can be considered in January or July. And chances are, his trade value will increase as he plays next season.
pointguardslim
August 16th, 2012
7:50 pm
Ryan Andersen and multiple picks for Al.
Leuer for a 2nd rounder.
Shouldve just flipped his injured butt for KG’s expiring and I bet Dwight wouldn’t have signed that damn extension. I know we wouldn’t have lost in the 1st round to KG lol.
But we too busy looking at Josh for Pau. smh
Astro Joe
August 16th, 2012
7:53 pm
The other issue, if you have Zaza, Bargnani and Josh, then you lose pretty much all rim protection. don’t sit there and believe that josh will become the first SF in NBA history who is able to protect the rim while guarding guys 20 feet from the basket. Imagine Josh leaving Paul Pierce alone because he has to help protect the rim on a drive to the hoop by Rondo. Way too many potent SFs in our conference for Josh to be trying to guard those guys AND stop a layup line (simultaneously).
Ken Strickland
August 16th, 2012
8:08 pm
“AL HORFORD IS NOT AN NBA ALLSTAR”. Wow, talk about a HORFORD HATING fool that can’t deal with reality. You’re right, he’s not an Allstar, he’s a 2 time Allstar and All NBA center.
SAUTEE-For someone that loves a challenge and loves to add facts and common sense to a sea of ignorance and stupidity, these HORFORD HATING CLOWNS really give you a wealth of ignorant and stupid comments and suggestions to deal with. Since when has Bargnani protected the rim, or dominated anyone or anything offensively, defensively, or on the boards? STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.
Fortunately for the Hawks organization, DFerry knows his business and doesn’t share the basketball ignorance of those who have personal issues with Al Horford and/or JSmith.
Sautee
August 16th, 2012
8:17 pm
KenS,
They are welcome to their opinions. The bottom line is that is doesn’t matter what anyone on this blog thinks of Horford. It’s only what Danny Ferry thinks of him that matters. And Ferry’s action (or inaction) regarding Horford will be very interesting, and likely a crucial judgement of Ferry’s tenure here.
So, I’ll just wait and see. Ferry’s only been here two months.
Grandad
August 16th, 2012
8:18 pm
Ra`mon
I would not trade Al for Bargnani !
Would you trade Josh For Bargnani ?
That would be a much better deal for the Hawks.
It would save more _$_ long term;
if that`s what you`re worried about now … saving money.
Yawl harp on Al`s defense;
Bargnani`s defense is non-existent !
However,
I`m kinda like AJ;
there are aspects of AB`s game that I like:
exp – he would be a nice back-up / change of pace for Zaza.
____________________________________________
steven a smith:
do you even realize a basketball is round ?
____________________________________________
I look forward next year to C.Paul feeding the ball to a frontcourt of:
a Dominican, a Spaniard, and a Mississippian;
with a Georgian coming off the bench [for our Hawks] !
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
8:42 pm
Grandad
August 16th, 2012
8:18 pm
Just my opinion. Al Horford for 6-8 million per is not a bad deal. He is a modern day Ken Norman or Jon Koncak.
O'Brien
August 16th, 2012
8:43 pm
Ra’mon,
What would you think about a possible (maybe highly unlikely) Al for Bargnani trade with Toronto? The salaries match. And Bargnani would be the one PF that allows Josh to move to the SF position. Also it saves the Hawks a few million dollars. Even this season, a front line of Josh – Bargnani – Zaza is pretty good. The Hawks may be able to squeeze a draft pick out of Toronto also..
No thank you.
1) For his career, 7 feet Andrea Bargnani averages 5 rpg, despite spending time at Center. What kind of rebounding can we expect at PF? Also, his defense is weak.
2) I do not want Josh playing SF. Right now on offense, he does not have the discipline to play more in the post as a PF, so the possibility is there that he might take even more jumpers as a SF. And on defense, I don’t want him chasing SFs around, because that also takes him away from the rim (unless you planned on Bargnani defending SF).
A first round pick from Toronto would be good, but I wouldn’t make the deal unless the plan was to flip Bargnani for other assets.
O'Brien
August 16th, 2012
8:45 pm
Steven A Smith,
Just my opinion. Al Horford for 6-8 million per is not a bad deal. He is a modern day Ken Norman or Jon Koncak..
I’m curious. Did ken Norman or Jon Koncak ever make multiple all star teams? Were either of them named 3rd team all NBA, despite being the 3rd/4th option?
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
8:46 pm
Grandad
August 16th, 2012
8:18 pm
Ra`mon
I would not trade Al for Bargnani !
Al Horford would be an excellent “Back-up Center” He was great coming offf the bench in the play-offs. Al is clearly not an “elite” starter in this league.
pointguardslim
August 16th, 2012
8:47 pm
The other issue, if you have Zaza, Bargnani and Josh, then you lose pretty much all rim protection. don’t sit there and believe that josh will become the first SF in NBA history who is able to protect the rim while guarding guys 20 feet from the basket. Imagine Josh leaving Paul Pierce alone because he has to help protect the rim on a drive to the hoop by Rondo. Way too many potent SFs in our conference for Josh to be trying to guard those guys AND stop a layup line (simultaneously).
———-
Don’t feed the troll. But as far as protecting the rim Josh on the perimeter means he’s going to either stay in front of them or come from the side to block and alter shots.
I am speaking on Josh, PF, Zaza. I don’t want to speculate on Barney.
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
8:52 pm
pointguardslim
August 16th, 2012
8:47 pm
Pointguardfat, Josh cannot guard any SFs in the National Basketball Association.
pointguardslim
August 16th, 2012
8:57 pm
I personally do not “hate” Al Horford or his game, however, he would not start for me if i were an NBA Head coach. I think that most on “this Blog” agree that he is not living up to his contract.
—-
Stephen A thats as good as it gets for $12 mil. What you mean to say is he’s not outperforming his contract. He hasn’t developed into a bargain as expected.
12 mil is for value for last year. 15, 9 and 3.5 assists. Thats 22 points at least kid.
The problem is people thought Horford would be prime Elton Brand by now. Not necessarily 20 and 10 but commanding double teams. Unfortunately he’s a seasoned college player with 4 years and plenty playoff games under his belt. And people did not see the ceiling. He’ll get incrementally better with experience but he’s never going to be a superstar. Neither is Josh.
I’d get another big that can do things Josh and Al can and cant do. Defend true Cs, run the floor, lead the break, pass on the break, bulldog inside, hit the midrange. Dwight howard is the most obvious, Dejuan Blair is a guy I’m looking at as well.
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
8:57 pm
O’Brien
August 16th, 2012
8:45 pm
Steven A Smith,
Just my opinion. Al Horford for 6-8 million per is not a bad deal. He is a modern day Ken Norman or Jon Koncak..
I’m curious. Did ken Norman or Jon Koncak ever make multiple all star teams? Were either of them named 3rd team all NBA, despite being the 3rd/4th option?
The league was a lot smaller when Ken Norman played. The NBA is watered down now. Even GRANDAD could probably play right now, Al Horford would not have been a starter on those old Mike Fratello teams.
pointguardslim
August 16th, 2012
9:00 pm
stephanie A trick
Whatever helps you sleep at night you sad warped little she-man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuklWpNBhE0
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
9:01 pm
I am watching the Falcons game right now, Al Horford is the Matt Ryan of the NBA. There is no better sports metaphor peroid! Matt Ryan cannot carry the Falcons either!
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
9:03 pm
Josh Smith got abused by the Celtics in the Garden, Abused in the playoffs!
Sautee
August 16th, 2012
9:04 pm
steven a smith,
You just lost whatever shred of credibility you had with that statement. You are welcome to your opinion, but I will scroll on past your posts if you truly think Horford is remotely comparable to Ken Norman or Jon Koncak, who never in their careers were even CONSIDERED for an All-Star berth.. That seemed more like you were “stick poking” to me.
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
9:07 pm
Ok, Al is better than Jon Contract. Ken Norman had more heart than AL. Ken just could not shoot freethrows.
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
9:11 pm
Once again, I wish that Danny Ferry was the GM of this Blog. He could do a little house cleaning here and trade away some of you SCRUB Bloggers, ie,,.Strickland, Poop, Grandad. Slim Jim, Pointguardslim, etc..
Sautee
August 16th, 2012
9:18 pm
“The league was a lot smaller when Ken Norman played. The NBA is watered down now” – steven a smith
LMFAO. Yeah a LOT smaller. TWO WHOLE TEAMS smaller. When Norman played 1987-1996 there were 28 teams in the league.
That was a BS excuse and I hope you knew it when you wrote it. Otherwise you are hopelessly uninformed about the NBA.
Sautee
August 16th, 2012
9:20 pm
To be perfectly clear, for most of Norman’s career their were 28 teams. Vancouver and Toronto were added in 1995.
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
9:38 pm
Sautee, I respect your opinions, however, you are starting to act like that BIg Dummy “Buddy Gizzards!
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
9:40 pm
By the way, Where is Buddy “the Big Dummy” Gizzards???Probably forgot how to turn his machine on….
Grandad
August 16th, 2012
9:42 pm
steven a
I can shoot better than Josh right now !
If I were a mind to;
I would take Josh`s lunch money.
But I don`t hustle kids anymore.
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
9:49 pm
Some of you guys must have had an “Ochoc-cinco Headbutt” 2-night? or should i say Chad Johnson”HeadButt”
Sautee
August 16th, 2012
9:53 pm
“Some of you guys must have had an “Ochoc-cinco Headbutt” 2-night? or should i say Chad Johnson”HeadButt””
Says the guy who compared Horford to Koncak.
Ken Strickland
August 16th, 2012
10:01 pm
STEVEN ASS SMITH-I’ll bet you’d love to eliminate Davenpoop, Sautee, Grandad, Slim, Pointguardslim, myself, etc. That way you can continue with your ANAL MINDED BS without being made to look like the uninformed moron that you’ve consistently proven yourself to be.
Ra'mon
August 16th, 2012
10:02 pm
G’D, AJ, Sautee, and O’B, its August, lol. I’m going to have quite a few trade ideas. And majority of them will be some that I don’t endorse, but like to discuss the possibilities. I’m curious to know what caliber of player would you guys trade Josh or Al for.
AJ, Josh is basically extended and committed to the franchise. He just won’t sign the extension this season, because if he waits he’ll be eligible for an extra year, and millions of dollars more.
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
10:29 pm
Can we say “Anger Management Boys and Girls?” Perhaps KEN STRICKLAND went to the Mel Gibson School of Public Relations!!!
steven a smith
August 16th, 2012
10:32 pm
KEN STRICKLAND, Are you having a relationship with Al Horford? If you are, that’s OK. The President of the United States is “OK” with it…
O'Brien
August 16th, 2012
10:47 pm
Ra’mon,
AJ, Josh is basically extended and committed to the franchise..
Cleveland thought Boozer was committed to the franchise too, so they opted out of a cheap deal thinking he would sign an extension. Instead, he signed with Utah.
I’m with AJ. Let Al play the season out, and hopefully increase his trade value, especially since he should get more FGA. Next offseason, AFTER Josh resigns, then I would explore trade options for Al.
random
August 16th, 2012
10:58 pm
First preseason game vs the heat on October 7th
Now News
August 16th, 2012
11:03 pm
The hawks have decided to allow Al horford to lead them to the lottery
Now News
August 16th, 2012
11:05 pm
Ken is just trying to see how stupid he can sound
Now News
August 16th, 2012
11:07 pm
We wont get much for Al… We tried to trade him 3 time this summer and no taker. Hes a 6′10″ version of Marvin. Orlando didnt want his sorry as and hes from Florida. .
Now News
August 16th, 2012
11:10 pm
Hell we even offered teague and a draft pick to go will Al to orlando and the magic said Hell naw, yall aint dumping yall project s hit over here.
D Ferry
August 16th, 2012
11:13 pm
steven a smith = Now News = Ts – As!hole
Rubuen
August 16th, 2012
11:13 pm
We would be better to amnesty Al and save his 12,000,000.000. Zaza and Ivan can do the same job for less. They proved that last year and we played better without Al
Now News
August 16th, 2012
11:16 pm
Steven Looks lake the majority of us realize that Al is not going to help this team and is at best a roll player. so the loud and few Al fans want to roll it all up into one person. The reality is there will be fewer fans in the stands because we no we are not going any where with Al as the center or power forward.
Ken Strickland
August 16th, 2012
11:19 pm
Im tried and a anal minded moron you as holes stop all this hate on teague and Al. They just need 4-5 more years and they will be stars you wait and see Stars i say.
you anal minded morons
You better listen to me Danny Ferry.
Ken Strickland
August 16th, 2012
11:22 pm
If Danny Ferry doesnt listen to me hes an ANAL MINDED MORON
Grandad
August 16th, 2012
11:40 pm
You guys stay on me all the time but Id did not get caught. Sandukiy is now in the penitentiary and a free man. Although Jerry and I were friend, and kind of hung around together there is no proof that I did anything wrong. Did any body see me? Anybody got any evidence?
Im sorry Sandusky was caught, but hey. hes ok where hes at.
Grandad
August 17th, 2012
12:09 am
Ditch~Weed
I look forward to the day we meet.
Perhaps this yr. @ a game.
Grandad
August 17th, 2012
12:11 am
Ra`mon
I am still hoping for a Josh for Gasol trade.
-if not-
Then; Josh for Really Big Al Jefferson.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 17th, 2012
12:52 am
Al Horford is like Tim Duncan compared to Andrea Garbagenani. Easy to put up big points per game numbers playing on an irrelevant perennial lottery team.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 17th, 2012
12:54 am
“Al Horford is the Matt Ryan of the NBA.”
This is a pretty fair comparison. Both are good players and good teammates who don’t have the elite talent necessary to carry a team. The difference, though, is that all positions are roughly of equal importance in basketball, whereas quarterback is far and away the most important position in football. Al doesn’t have to carry the Hawks if they want to win a championship. Matt Ryan has to carry the Falcons if they want to win a Super Bowl.
Ra'mon
August 17th, 2012
1:24 am
G’D, you realize a deal of Josh for Gasol virtually takes away Ferry’s ability to sign a max level free agent. Also, even with the ability to add a CP3 with Al as the third fiddle to CP3 and Gasol, Al is still the worse third option of each of the contenders’ ‘Big Three’ in the East (Miami, Boston, Philly, New York). And in play off basketball, Gasol is the worst number two option out of the last two teams to win the East with a ‘Big Three’ (Miami and Boston). I’ll admit, CP3, Harden, Josh, and Al beats any team in the east in a 7 games series. But CP3, Gasol, and Al doesn’t make it to the ECF in my opinion.
Grandad
August 17th, 2012
2:50 am
Ra`mon
No, I`m not aware of that.
As a matter of fact;
my plan is to sign both Chris Paul & Al Jefferson,
-[provided we trade Josh for Gasol]-
then play a front-line of Big Al – Pau Gasol – and Really Big Al Jefferson.
Horford @ the [3]
PG @ the [4]
RBA @ the [5]
Re-sign Zaza as the back-up
Hire D`Antoni as *[Head Coach] to Coach `em up;
also hire Tim Grgurich as Defensive coordinator / Associate HC
to install the Amoeba Defense.
Sure, we will spend some _$_;
but you think Josh won`t cost money ?
Now put that line-up – (with our shooters) – up against:
Miami / LAL / NYK ===> Brang `em on !
Najeh Davenpoop
August 17th, 2012
5:18 am
Horford guarding LeBron and Carmelo for an entire game? LOL
Ken Strickland
August 17th, 2012
6:45 am
The truth really hurts doesn’t it STEVEN ASS SMITH. Everyone can tell by the gross ignorance and immaturity of your posts, especially your most recent under my name. Are you sure you’re old enough to be posting on these sites? I ask because your childish temperment and reaction to being presented with facts, and the almost total absence of common sense in the way you try to think and present yourself, certainly leads one to believe you’re nothing more than an attention seeking adolesent.
If you have any parents, or anyone that gives a damn about you, please ask them to get you some help. Because if you’re as dense when it comes to everything else as you are when it comes to basketball, you’re going to have a miserable life ahead of you. In the meantime, you can continue to use my name to post your ANAL MINDED BS if it helps get you through the day. I understand that kindness and sympathy are the best tools for emotionally and mentally challenged individuals like you. Good luck.
Ra'mon
August 17th, 2012
8:47 am
G’D, Gasol, Jefferson, and CP3 will cost $60 million dollars a season alone. You add in Horford, and that goes up to over $72 for just 4 players. Gasol makes close to $8 million more than Josh. I wouldn’t even trade Al for Gasol. Gasol seems to have the same mindset of Odom, that he can only produce as a Laker. Josh has been the subject of rumors for years. Even Al Jefferson has. However, anytime Gasol is a subject of a trade rumor, his production is cut in half. Notice the difference between Gasol in the early rounds of the Olympics. And the Gasol after the Howard trade went down. Gasol doesn’t want to be in Atlanta, so he wouldn’t give Atlanta his all. Gasol would look at coming to Atlanta as being jettisoned. Gasol, with all of his skills (he is the best offensive big man in the game hands down – only Randolph comes close as I don’t count Dirk), he doesn’t have that desire to want to be the man on a playoff team it seems. If Gasol had the fire of even Chris Paul, I’d trade anyone on the Hawks for him, and call it a rip off.
Another question G’D.You’re a student of the game for many years. In the last twenty years, how many times have you seen a player get traded from the Lakers, during their winning years, and not see his production decrease? Or when was the last time you honestly saw the Lakers make a bad trade? So if the Lakers came to you offering Gasol. And the Lakers are only about winning championships, wouldn’t that be a great indication that the 2nd most storied franchise in the NBA don’t think Gasol can help them win a championship as much as the player they’re trading for?
Astro Joe
August 17th, 2012
9:40 am
I was for the Gasol trade previously because I didn’t envision getting cap space prior to the summer of 2014 and figured that he would keep the team afloat until then. But Ferry was able to create that cap space a year earlier, so I wouldn’t trade for Gasol at this point. I still feel he is much better than many around here, but I’m hoping to have a long-term core next summer (through trades, free agency and draft picks).
Ra’mon, if I ran a team, I wouldn’t trust that someone is signed without signing. I think that is a quick and easy way to lose your job… taking someone’s “word on it”. Josh went from at least a good year of wanting out to a few weeks of wanting in, and we’re supposed to trust that nothing will change from here on out? No, thanks.
vava74
August 17th, 2012
9:40 am
Najeh,
“Matt Ryan has to carry the Falcons if they want to win a Super Bowl.”
That would not be the case if the Falcons became a “defense first” type of team since there have been Super Bowl winners with pretty average QBs…
Although the NFL did move into a “pass happy league” mode, so that may be substantially more difficult right now (see Raven’s case).
O'Brien
August 17th, 2012
9:49 am
Ra’mon, AJ,
What if the team struggles this year, and fans get on Josh the whole season? What if Josh and LD get into it? What if Josh is snubbed again for the AS team, and thinks Ferry didn’t promote him enough?
There are too many unknowns (imo) to think Josh is “committed to the franchise” just because he withdrew his trade request going into his contract year. Until he is signed, you never know for sure.
Astro Joe
August 17th, 2012
9:55 am
A lot of news reports about assistant coaches being hired across the league. I hope that LD/Ferry don’t miss out on a quality coach to add to the bench. I wonder if Patrick Ewing will get consideration, since he was let go by the Magic and the Hawks sent Ty Hill (our previous big man coach) packing.
vava74
August 17th, 2012
9:57 am
AJ,
I am with you. There is no sense in getting cap room and clogging it with a very good, but old/expensive player.
O'Brien
August 17th, 2012
9:58 am
Al Jefferson has a better low post game than Al Horford (imo), and may be a better player overall. But he is not a prototypical center either. Also, Jefferson made $15 mil this past year, and will be looking for a raise on his next contract.
So to me, the question becomes is Jefferson at $16 – $18 mil a better investment than Al at $12 mil? I’m not so sure, because the $4 – $6 mil saved can add another solid bench player.
Its the same argument that Ra’mon has for trading Al for Zaza and another solid bench piece. Is Al at $12 mil a better investment than Zaza ($6.5 mil estimated on his next contract) and another solid bench player ($4 – $5 mil). I’m not so sure of that either.
Slimjr
August 17th, 2012
9:59 am
Matt Ryan’s pocket presence is his “cryptonite”. The only way he partakes is a Superbowl is with a Clip board…..
We’ve seen this b4. So has Mr Blank..
vava74
August 17th, 2012
10:00 am
AJ,
Ewing was NOT a smart bball player back in his days so I don’t see the infatuation people have on his highly unknown coaching skills.
If he could not get into Howard’s mind and made him improve on any of his deficiencies, why people think he is any good?
He was a very good player but he appears to have flunked in several interviews around the league for an HC job so I think that is a major red flag for me.
Sautee
August 17th, 2012
10:07 am
So, slim did you decide to stop being Bounce?
Slimjr
August 17th, 2012
10:16 am
Goodmorning Sir?
So Satuee, could you see your favorite Hawk playing SF in All NBA?
Imagine him guarding Paul Pierce…. Oh the Hu
Slimjr
August 17th, 2012
10:19 am
AJ,
“Ewing was NOT a smart bball player back in his days so I don’t see the infatuation people have on his highly unknown coaching skills.
If he could not get into Howard’s mind and made him improve on any of his deficiencies, why people think he is any good?” -Vava- The Nets number #1 undercover Fan…
-LOL-
Slimjr
August 17th, 2012
10:21 am
Al at the 3. He’d have the 2 fouls with 6mins left in the 1st Quarter..
Larry’s rules= 2 fouls, you must have a seat…
Astro Joe
August 17th, 2012
10:28 am
vava, Ewing has flunked head coaching interviews, but that’s not why we would hire him. I’d also ask, how many former centers are head coaches? IMO, there is a bias that centers are not smart. It seems like folk believe that they are capable based on the blessing of size alone. Howard did get better in the half court… he went from a single “catch and dunk” move to at least having some low post moves (but nothing in the vicinity of Bynum). But all things are relative. After having Alton Lister and Ty Hill as big man coaches, I tend to believe that Ewing might be a fairly big improvement.
OB, while I’m sure that every player wants a raise, I’m not sure that every player will demand a raise. Al Jefferson is not a max player and I’d be surprised if he gets a starting salary over $15M. He is the low-post star of an ensemble cast, but by no means is he a playoff team’s superstar. He would best fit with a team that had an equivalent (or better) wing player. If I were Ferry, a 4 year/$60M contract would be all I would offer for that guy (and even that may be a stretch).
Here’s a trivia question, how many guys who entered the HOF as players are assistant coaches? Off the top of my head, I can only think of Ewing & McAdoo (if Ewing isn’t in yet, he will be there soon enough). vava, that is another reason why Ewing gets more publicity than the average clipboard jockey, because we’re not used to seeing HOF players try and work their way up the coaching ladder.
Slimjr
August 17th, 2012
10:33 am
”
Ra’mon
August 17th, 2012
8:47 am
“G’D, Gasol, Jefferson, and CP3 will cost $60 million dollars a season alone. You add in Horford, and that goes up to over $72 for just 4 players. Gasol makes close to $8 million more than Josh. I wouldn’t even trade Al for Gasol. Gasol seems to have the same mindset of Odom, that he can only produce as a Laker. Josh has been the subject of rumors for years. Even Al Jefferson has. However, anytime Gasol is a subject of a trade rumor, his production is cut in half. Notice the difference between Gasol in the early rounds of the Olympics. And the Gasol after the Howard trade went down. Gasol doesn’t want to be in Atlanta, so he wouldn’t give Atlanta his all. Gasol would look at coming to Atlanta as being jettisoned. Gasol, with all of his skills (he is the best offensive big man in the game hands down – only Randolph comes close as I don’t count Dirk), he doesn’t have that desire to want to be the man on a playoff team it seems. If Gasol had the fire of even Chris Paul, I’d trade anyone on the Hawks for him, and call it a rip off.” -Ramon-
Excellent points Ra’mon..Danny will not trade Josh for that Gasol.
Ultimately Gasol and Al would not take them to the Finals. Heck they could not take this team to their 1st ECF appearance as a matter of opinion…..Just too soft up the middle..
Slimjr
August 17th, 2012
10:38 am
Contrary to one life long Net Fans opinion, Ewing helped D12 quite a bit with his offensive game. D12 even admitted to that point in several interviews early on in his career…
vava74
August 17th, 2012
10:46 am
Slimjr,
You are a pathetic NY Knicks fan posing as a Hawks fan.
How come a criticism of Ewing which was a very good but highly overrated (due to NY media) player makes me a Nets’ fan block head?
I could not care less about NYK or the BRN.
I am strickly a Hawks fan, unlike you.
Slimjr
August 17th, 2012
10:47 am
” Ewing was enshrined in the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in 2008, he went in Riley. And in a twist of irony, his longtime rival, Olajuwon, was one of the other marquee names of that Hall of Fame class.” -NBA warrior-
Slimjr
August 17th, 2012
10:49 am
You get a pass “Grumpy Ole Man”….
Carry on…
vava74
August 17th, 2012
10:50 am
AJ,
Howards improvement in the post was exclusively due to his workouts with Olajuwon.
Ewing was strictly a face up C who got 70% of his points from jumpshots, 20% from dunks and about 10% from his hook shot.
His post moves were… basic to say the least.
In reality, Ewing’s game was little more than Horford’s, simply better due to the correct size to play the C position (both height and reach), enabling him to jump shoot over people, block more shots and rebound a tad better than Horford.
vava74
August 17th, 2012
10:51 am
Herb Williams is 10 times a more qualified coach than Ewing.
Slimjr
August 17th, 2012
10:59 am
Net Fans rise up! Wow….
Astro Joe
August 17th, 2012
11:01 am
vava, I just read an article that said that most players epdn 4 days with Hakeem. Excuse me if I have a hard time believing that players can master low post moves after only 4 days of coaching. Ewing had a very nice post game during his prime… once his knees began to give him problems, he became more of a jump shooter. That’s the way we remember him because that is how he played in his last 3+ years. But before that, he had the nice hook shot, an unblockable turn-around jumper and several drop step moves as well. Hawks have done worse (in terms of hiring a big man coach) than bringing in a HOF big man with assistant coaching experience.
Astro Joe
August 17th, 2012
11:04 am
vava, isn’t Herb Williams on Woody’s staff? I was referencing available assistants, if we’re talking about stealing coaches from current staff’s, that is a whole different subject.
KevinM
August 17th, 2012
11:17 am
Talking big men, I truly don’t understand why Kareem doesn’t get serious interest. IMO, he and Russell are the 2 guys who should be heavily involved in the NBA.
Before Woody, I wanted Kareem to come here and right the ship. I still think he has a lot to offer. I think he is the reason why Bynum is as good as he is.
Me being a big man fan first and foremost, I still don’t understand why these guys don’t get more opportunities. Ewing has been in Orlando forever and they had great success. Ewing has put the time in to get more consideration, but he will now have to take a lateral move to stay involved with the league.
LD is going to survive this season and unless he gets a MY deal, there is no reason to keep bringing him back. Could Kareem or Ewing come in today and duplicate what LD has done? Easily IMO.
joesmom
August 17th, 2012
11:33 am
Mikhail Prokhorov will buy it for him if need be.
vava74
August 17th, 2012
11:48 am
AJ,
I remember Ewing’s game perfectly.
His post moves were BASIC and it was NOT ONLY during his last 3 years that he was strictly a jump shooter.
His signature crunch time shot was a brick from the elbow.
Very good player, but substantially overrated.
vava74
August 17th, 2012
11:54 am
AJ,
On Olajuwon’s 4 day workouts:
Every single player that worked out with him improved their low post game.
That list includes, Howard, Kobe, Lebron and Josh.
The 4 days, for a top grade talent/athlete like any of the above guys gives them enough to continue to work on their own on the moves.
When a pianist lays his eyes on a new music score he may not know how to play it to perfection after 4 days, but he will certainly catch the basics to continue to work on it and perfect it.
Obviously, these guys who should have worked out longer with Olajuwon but my guess is that all of them prefer to overpay for bottles of Crystal and squander money on hookers rather than working on what can get them to a higher level of play and pay Olajuwon’s fees.
Astro Joe
August 17th, 2012
12:13 pm
vava, the very best low post players work at their craft for more than 4 days. Andrew Bynum spent 2-3 years working daily with Kareem. Olajuwon is my favorite center of the past 25 years, so this is in no way a knock against his career (nor his current hustle). It is just laughable to me that a 4 day “low post moves for dummies” workshop gets the love that it does. I suspect saying that you worked out with Hakeem has become a status symbol… the new version of Pete Newell’s big man camp. (Certainly beter than going through John Lucas’ how to act sane camp).
I’d rather have a credible big man coach work with my players each and everyday. Someone who can tell them during a timeout how he did on his last post move (or how well he boxed out, or his foot work, or how he defended the pick & roll). And the Hawks have yet to hire a big man coach who actually had a very good low post game. There may be others out there along with Ewing. I’ve long suggested Antoine Carr (if he is interested in coaching, he had an outstanding low post game). But I have little doubt that Ewing would be a huge upgrade from the guys Horford and Josh have had working with them in their Hawls career.
vava74
August 17th, 2012
12:23 pm
AJ:
“I’d rather have a credible big man coach work with my players each and everyday. Someone who can tell them during a timeout how he did on his last post move (or how well he boxed out, or his foot work, or how he defended the pick & roll).”
Ewing is not the man for this job. Clifford Ray IS and should be the guy behind any improvement early in Howard’s career, not Ewing.
Howard probably credited Ewing precisely because he it was politically/socially good to do it, but Ray is considered by experts the best big man coach (he recently signed with SAC).
“But I have little doubt that Ewing would be a huge upgrade from the guys Horford and Josh have had working with them in their Hawls career.”
Only by default (lack of coaching), not by actually quality as a low post guy…
Astro Joe
August 17th, 2012
12:25 pm
vava, Clifford Ray may easily be 87 years old by now. Consider that he was old when Howard was a rookie.
Ken Strickland
August 17th, 2012
12:37 pm
I became curious after seeing several HORFORD HATERS suggest we trade Horford for Barngnani, so I did a little research, which is definitely something HORFORD HATERS fail to do. Here’s what I found. BARGNANI(HORFORD)
1-PPG-19.5(15.3)
2-FGA-15.6(12.0)
3-RPG-5.6(9.4)
4-APG-2.0(3.5)
5-BPG-0.5(1.0)
6-SPG-.06(0.8)
7-FG%-.432(.557)
If you combine their pts and assists, Bargnani’s would come up to 23.5PPG, and Horford’s would come up to 22.3PPG. Since Horford is a far more efficient scorer and shooter than Bargnani, giving him the additional shots that Bargnani took would result in better OFF production. And judging by Bargnani’s sorry rebound production during his career, it doesn’t appear he’s been close enough to the rim to defend it or take care of any potential rebounds that come off it.
steven a smith
August 17th, 2012
12:45 pm
KEN STRICLAND—I am at work at the moment, lunch break, if you will. I will respond to your comments when i return home. Have a great day my friend.
Slimjr
August 17th, 2012
12:48 pm
“Very good player, but substantially overrated.”-Nets Fan-
Man that sounds so familiar..
KevinM, Ewing would gain instant respect that Larry has never received..
pointguardslim
August 17th, 2012
12:56 pm
Al Horford as the 3 and not Josh? wtf guys.
The Truth
August 17th, 2012
1:00 pm
Based on a Sheridian Hoops article entitled “NBA Free Agency: Who Still Needs What?” which the “blog-master” don’t like:
Hawks hoping to acquire a “coveted” SF via trade doesn’t look so good:
The demand for a SF among NBA teams accordingly is down to 4 teams:
Atlanta
Boston
Cleveland
New Orleans
Based on the Hawks abundance of SGs, expectations would be they find a trading partner (in need of a SG) and trade one of their SG talents (presumably expiring Anthony Morrow) for a SF.
So what NBA team needs a SG? According to the article just 2 teams:
Denver
Milwaukee
The problem here is that Denver has no SF expiring and just traded their tradable chip Al Harrington to Orlando. They also beat out the Hawks in acquiring SF Anthony Randolph. That leaves only the Bucks as a likely trading partner. From this scenario, the likely SF player from the Bucks would be Mike Dunleavy whose contract is expiring.
In this trade scenario the stat numbers and salaries are comparable but the Hawks would be trading a 26 yr old player for a 31 yr old player. It would seem from this trade that the advantage would go to the Bucks unless the Hawks are compensated somehow perhaps with a 2nd rd pick. Unless it’s a “good” 2nd rd pick, I’m not fond of this option but it maybe the only option left from a trade perspective.
This may explain why Danny is in no hurry in acquiring a SF from this trade picture. I’m also not sure NBA teams around the league would be shaking (in fear) at the thought of their SFs being guarded by Mike Dunleavy who Hoopshype describe him as:
“A little bit too slow… Pretty soft… Gets overpowered”
But since he went to Duke, Danny might bite anyway
Ken Strickland
August 17th, 2012
1:13 pm
Here’s a statistical look at Al Jefferson and Al Horford. JEFFERSON(HORFORD)
1-PPG 19.2(15.3)
2-FGA 17.2(12.0)
3-FG% .492(.557)
4-RPG 9.6(9.4)
5-APG 2.2(3.5)
BPG 1.7(1.0)
SPG .8(.8)
Again, if you combine their assists and PPG, you get Jefferson(23.6), Horford(22.3). The you give Horford the addition 5.2 shots per gm that Jefferson took, along with his higher FG%, and it appears Horford would be the more efficient scorer of the 2. Any improvement in production that Jefferson might give you over Horford, like BPG, wouldn’t be worth the already $3M per yr in salary, which will surely increase after the season when his contract expires.
If any of you HORFORD HATERS had any common sense intelligence, you’d realize the most intelligent move would be to wait until the end of the season and sign Jefferson as a FA. That move would allow us to have both players. Wouldn’t it make more sense to the intelligent basketball mind to trade Horford or Josh for a player to compliment Jefferson rather than trading one of them for Jefferson? STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES HORFORD HATERS.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 17th, 2012
1:54 pm
“Although the NFL did move into a “pass happy league” mode, so that may be substantially more difficult right now”
Yeah, this is what I was referring to. In 2002, the defense-first model could work. Matt Ryan isn’t some bum like Mark Sanchez or anything, but in 2012, he’ll have to put the team on his back at some point in the playoffs and make some plays, when good teams start limiting the Falcons’ regular season ability to dominate time of possession. So far, he hasn’t shown that he has the talent to do so.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 17th, 2012
1:59 pm
“there is a bias that centers are not smart”
I think players who succeeded primarily due to their physical gifts end up being worse coaching candidates, regardless of position. The type of players who seem to end up being good coaches are the ones who were below average athletically and had to compensate by using their brains to carve out a role for themselves. This is why, for example, I think Jason Collins will be a good coach some day, and why I think Dominique Wilkins (suggested by some around here) would make a bad coach.
Astro Joe
August 17th, 2012
2:14 pm
Najeh, true, but it is hard to believe that in the last 20-30 years, the only former centers with head coaching aspirations were Bill Laimbeer and Bill Cartwright. Maybe I am forgetting someone, but the fact remains that even the “had to grind to make a career for themselves” type centers have not had a shot at coaching. Percentages are much lower for centers and much higher for guards.
random
August 17th, 2012
2:28 pm
@Ken
Why do you think everyone are Horford haters, when they are clearly just throwing up trade ideas. You take it too far smh.
O'Brien
August 17th, 2012
2:43 pm
Ken S,
As Horford gets more shots, I think his FG% will drop (and teams will key on him more). That being said, he has done really well for someone who has been a 3rd/4th option on offense.
O'Brien
August 17th, 2012
2:48 pm
Truth,
I think Denver would be willing to trade Wilson Chandler. They already have Andre Iguodala and Gallinari on the roster. And if even Gallinari plays as a stretch 4, I don’t know if Denver will want to pay Chandler $6+ mil to be their backup SF. However, I’m not sure if Danny would be interested, because that eats into our cap flexibility next year.
Mike Dunleavy is not on the same level, but he is expiring, and with Ferry’s strategy, that makes him a better fit (imo).
Ken Strickland
August 17th, 2012
2:54 pm
RANDOM-I don’t think everyone is a HORFORD HATER for suggesting that he be traded for someone of greater or equal value, talent or cost wise, nor have I indicated as much. But anyone who criticizes him for
1-being a 2 time Allstar and All NBA center,
2-being one of the NBAs most efficient midrange jumpshooter,
3-not being a prolific shotblocker,
4-not scoring more than 15.3PPG as the teams 3rd scoring option,
5-not being able to overpower every player he defends,
6-not being the NBAs most polished and dominant post player, or
7-wanting to play a different position even though he’s excelled at the one he’s playing,
then that becomes a HORFORD HATER.
Hell, WChamberlin, KJabbar, SOneal, Hakeem the Dream, BWalton, RParrish, EHayes, etc, are some of the NBAs greatest centers that were traded. Didn’t DHoward and ABynum, the NBAs 2 most dominant centers, just get traded? It’s not the trading part that makes one a HORFORD HATER, it’s the justifications offered and extreme stupidity behind the justifications for wanting him traded that does the trick.
You To Brutus
August 17th, 2012
2:54 pm
.
What a condescending SOB.
Astro Joe
August 17th, 2012
3:03 pm
I don’t think the Bucks will trade Dunleavy for expiring contracts and would we consider trading Josh, Al, Jeff, Jenkins or a draft pick for him? Seems like the Bucks are in the business of trying to reach the playoffs and not simply dumping salaries. That could change around February, but I doubt they would make a deal now while they have a full season to challenge for the post-season (and they need all of the scoring they can find based on their current roster composition).
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
August 17th, 2012
3:08 pm
“You To Brutus ”
Is that a direction ? a vector? Too funny, man.
KevinM
August 17th, 2012
3:16 pm
AJ, Wes Unseld (1987-94 with the Bullets) and Jeff Ruland have had HC stops along the way, not championship worthy, but HC they were.
Darryl Dawkins had stints in the ABA, the USBL and at a community college.
I get your point though; there’s not many guys who have made it to that level.
KevinM
August 17th, 2012
3:18 pm
Don’t forget the multiple attempts Dave Cowens made as a HC.
Ken Strickland
August 17th, 2012
3:32 pm
OBRIEN-Your belief that Horford’s FG% will go down if he gets more shots isn’t supported by any facts whatsoever. Here’s why I say that.
07-08 FGA 8.2 FG% .499 10.0PPG
08-09 FGA 8.9 FG% .525 11.5PPG
09-10 FGA 10.5 FG% .551 14.2PPG
10-11 FGA 12.0 FG% .557 15.3PPG
We’re talking about an extremely efficient scorer and midrange jumpshooter who won’t forget how to shoot or score just because he’s getting more shots. In fact, the stats show that he becomes even more effective as a shooter and scorer as his shot attempts increase.
We all saw how JSmith’s PPG average increased as he got more FGA in Horford’s absence. Why is it so hard to believe the same won’t happen with Horford, who’s a far more efficient scorer and shooter than Josh?
Michael Cunningham
August 17th, 2012
3:36 pm
new blog posted. shutting down this thread.
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