Atlanta Hawks: Danny Ferry covets wing player but no hurry to add one

The wait continues

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Bynum and Doug Collins wont work. Please! I give it a couple of practices. lol

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Stick with Kyle Korver? Hell to the naw! Go get Wilson Chandler, Delfino, Matt Barnes, or some damn body.

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FTPB, Melvin, some team (I think Phoenix) paid Hedo 2X his previous salary so he left. I don;t think it was a trade.

My guess is that the number of teams that have made it to the Finals with a leading socrer who averaged less than 22/game can be counted on one hand. An aberration. And the ones who have probably had 2-3 guys who averaged 15+. or said differently, it was a classic “ensemble cast” and not a superstar-led team.

Finally, Howard’s salary during the 2008-09 season when they made the Finals? ~$14M. You can’t pay that guy $20M and expect him to put a team on his big ole shoulders and get them into the Finals. he is a mega-role player. And a guy incapable of being on the floor at the end of late and meaningful games.

But it is all moot, he is a Laker and gets to sit in the post and wait for Nash or Kobe to get him the ball. When the game is on the line, he can grab a towel and wave it frantically from the bench. He is perfectly suited for his new role.

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If they are looking at players who will be willing to accept a non-guaranteed contract, then we’re talking about something less than a Dollar General type player. Now, we’re talking about the second-hand stores.

Welcome to the Hawks, Adam Morrison!

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LOL @ Astro. I was thinking of the same player

SMH

As much as people hated Marvin around here, they may be longing for him come Christmas.

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“I would say probably a wing that can compete defensively at a high level would be a good thing to be able to add at some point.”

I still think Corey Brewer from Denver would be an ideal trade target. $3.5M expiring contract. Plays the transition game well.

Danny, see if Denver will throw in Mozgov or Koufas while you’re at it.

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MC, I agree with Danny…I suspect Danny will make some type of move to help shore up the SF spot before the season starts…GLAD THE DIVA saga is over…with all the multiple transactions taking place…invariably there will be some fallout from some of these mega trades…I looks for Danny to pounds when the opportunity is right.

DwightZilla can finally smile.lol

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Melvin, the Hawks have owned Dwight’s Magic. Simply defend the wing players and let him score 40 points and his team loses.

Time to move on.

Jordan Williams will wave the towel for less than $1M.

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I think Morrow may be the odd man out to be traded. Ferry seems to be fund of Harris. And with L. Williams and Jenkins guys that he acquired, I think Morrow would be the one guy to get traded for a true SF. And I could see a team like Denver wanting Morrow’s shooting for one of their wing players.

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Ra’mon, I’m not a big fan of Brewer, but Morrow for Brewer isn’t an awful idea. It would not likely change the team’s fortunes, but it could open up time for Jenkins to get some run.

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Another SF option (I’m being more serious now) is Jamario Moon. I’m pretty sure that Ferry “discovered” him during his time as the Cavs GM. He would likely take a non-guaranteed contract. I don’t recall him being considered a good defender, though.

Devin Ebanks is definitely my preferred choice and was used (sparingly) to help defend SFs in his short time with the Lakers. But I doubt that he would settle for a non-guaranteed contract.

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Dwight not coming is not the end of the world. Danny has some nice expiring deals, cap flexibility and the balls to pull the trigger. He’s showing us a new side for our organization by making player development a priority. I don’t see us taking steps back per se, it’s whether or not he can get a few minor tweaks done in time for the team to gel. Just making the playoffs will match our status quo since we’ve never really competed once we got there.

Raising the bar won’t be that hard. I don’t see any way we won’t compete well this year. Smoove is in a contract year, one year after relishing the limelight. Teague and Horford are in make it or break it time since their next big deals are on the horizon. We’re actually putting some value on young talent and demanding something from them. I see it as only positives.

I’m looking forward to the season, regardless of whether we take two steps back to jump three forward. At least the trade deadlies, drafts and such will finally be exciting again. Same ole, same ole sucked.

So much for JeJe’s Summer of Sameness. Guess he shamed ASG into doing something! God Bless him for that. THANK YOU JEJE!

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Kevin, Ferry’s February comment kind of makes you think that he doesn’t have a tremendous sense of urgency about this specific season, huh?

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Ra’mon, he could use Willie Green’s trade exception to grab Ebanks. But it sounds like Ferry doesn’t want to guarantee a contract… even if he has the ability to do so. Sounds like he wants to be able to make a 1 for 2 trade during the season… without having to pay off a fully guaranteed contract to free up a roster spot.

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AJ, that’s why I said, if Ferry trades a guaranteed contract on this team, he will be able to replace it with another guaranteed contract, while only having 14 players on the roster still.

Honestly though, I would be interested in signing Greg Oden to a 2 year deal for $8 million, with the 2nd year not guaranteed.

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Yes, Hawks GM Danny Ferry is considering using the final open roster spot (assuming Ivan Johnson eventually signs his qualifying offer) to add a small forward.

OK, I’m confused (yes, it happens often). Don’t we only have 13 players signed to guaranteed contracts (if Ivan accepts his QO)?

BIGS – Horford, Josh, Zaza, Ivan, Petro, Jordan Williams
WINGS – Lou, Jenkins, Morrow, Korver, Stevenson
PGs – Teague, Harris

Farmar was bought-out and so his roster spot is free. Mike Scott (to my knowledge) has not signed a guaranteed contract. Heaven help us if Pape Sy has a guaranteed deal.

Who am I missing? Shouldn’t we have room to add a guaranteed contract in slot 14 (I think that is what Ra’mon was referencing)?

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Astro,

Remember whIch playoff series set the NBA record for the largest margin of defeat (or whatever they call it). Being the owner of that distinguish record, I wouldn’t dare say this team owned another team….

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Ramon, I never thought they would get Meeks after all the moves today….must have been the late move to dump McRoberts.
They are stacking the deck against the West to give Brown every option possible.

“Just Joe

August 10th, 2012
4:26 pm
Before anyone mentions Pape Sy on a non-guaranteed deal, his contract in France requires him to sign a guaranteed deal in the NBA in order to get out of his obligation.”

JJ, I just can’t see where Sy has earned any opp to come to the big boys camp. Put Mike Scott in that list as well. I just didn’t see much from either. I’m for saving the cash and waiting on the other camps to remove a player or 2.

Jenkins should be the lone survivor of our Vegas SL.

Teague / Harris
Lou / Korver / Morrow / Jenkins
Josh / Stevenson
Al / Ivan / Jordan Williams?
Zaza / Petro

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AJ, you’re correct. I guess they’re assuming that Mike Scott will be signed to a contract already.

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I know D12 was a pipe dream to come here, but with him probably going to sign an extension in LA, what superstar do we have a shot at bringing here. You all remember watching that team coached by Terry Stotts. Its no fun watching cap space play basketball

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KevinM…..I see some value in Mike Scott. He got better as Summer League went along.

His first 3 games, 10 of 33 from the field, 50% from the free throw line, and 9 turnovers.

His last 2 games, 50% from the field, 11 of 13 from the free throw line, and 3 turnovers.

His rebounding was consistent through all 5 games (6-8 each game).

I was most impressed with how aggressive he was. No reason not to bring him to camp.

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Need the Full Q&A

“I would say probably a wing that can compete defensively at a high level would be a good thing to be able to add at some point,” Ferry said.

“That may happen,” Ferry said. “How that happens, I can’t sit here and tell you. Could it be someone we sign? Could it be a trade at some point and, if so, when could that be? Trades happen in their own time. We have until February to do it.”

“Ferry said, if the Hawks do sign a free-agent wing, it’s likely the player would have to accept a non-guaranteed contract.”

The problem with Danny above quoted answers, we really don’t know exactly what the questions to these answers. MC has framed this blog story off his comments with none of the questions connected to them. That’s important because it could put Danny’s quotes out of context while bloggers spin their wheels trying to interpret what he meant.

Even in the Blog title: “Atlanta Hawks: Danny Ferry covets wing player but no hurry to add one”

Could suggest to some that Danny exactly made this quote but it appears he didn’t. Instead the title seems to be MC’s impression from the briefing. When the link to this story appears in sports outlets such as hoophypes and other others, it might appear that way.

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With all of us clamoring for a C all these years, we haven’t made inroads on acquiring one at this stage.
Danny talking about considering a defensive wing, but that doesn’t address the 5. Is he satisfied for the time being?

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This is my problem as a fan about the JJ trade, again I understand the trade from Ferry and the owner perspective…

If the Hawks had just traded Marvin and not JJ, then used their Mid-Level on someone like Defino or Chandler and they would be the 2nd best team in the East now. Celtics would be close and maybe NY, but everyone else would have serious problems against the HAWKS. And if the season didn’t go well they could have amnestied JJ and let Josh walk and started over with the same cap space. Now they have a bunch of parts that don’t fit, near useless cap space in the future and a wasted season. I like Ferry’s ability to make moves, but I definitely not excited or really impressed.

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A good defensive wing player, can be had or found in the D-League, there are plenty out there, seen plenty in summer league, remember he doesn’t need to score, we’ve got plenty of fire power. So I understand why he does not have to be in a hurry, why pay a FA 1-3 million dollars when you can get a D-League for 400,000 and will play much harder.

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trade josh?? u nuts?? josh is top 3 pf in nba period …imo I wouldn’t ever trade josh smith..never too much athleticism blocks steals dunks midrange game better…so on..

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Where is all of this fire power? Both Lou Williams and Josh Smith are ineffiecent shooters. Anthony Morrow struggled to score on a really bad team. Kover is only good for about 2 or 3 baskets a game. Teague is a mediocre 12PPG scorer. Harris is on the decline and he stunk it up for the Jazz.

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The hawks got plenty of offense, plenty of fire power

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Hawks offense might push 91PPG with a very little shooting percentage.

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Agree Rev.. Al has good trade value..

We need a solid scoring wing more than we need Al’s limited game in the playoffs..

Why not shop him for Derrick Williams and picks? Just shop him and see what kind of interest you garner on the market…

For real, this AllStar is not taking anybody to an ECF or Finals…Shop him now at his peak…

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With Howard to me out of the equation because he wont forgo losing 20+ million since Lakers have his bird rights and he will more than likely re-sign with them for the same reason Deron Williams re-signed with the Nets. They arent giving up extra money to sign elsewhere.

The question becomes this for Danny Ferry will be does he feel he can completely clear the cupboard completely and rebuild a team by signing free agents better than by him drafting franchise players and surrounding them with good players via draft and free agency.

One thing I will say about doing a traditional rebuild which the Hawks have done in the past:

it takes serious patience from the fanbase and organization…and STILL requires a lot of luck.

OKC would not be close to a contender had Portland picked Durant over Oden.

Indy’s traditional rebuild is stalling now that they’re a playoff team and have to pay guys, as seen by the lateral moves they did this off season just to keep similar level players (I consider the PG flip a downgrade) for cheaper.

Memphis is a good team with no clear way to improve beyond their current standing.

Portland tried a traditional rebuild, stacked assets and couldn’t get fair value for the assets…those same young pieces lost their rookie contracts and became overpaid pieces while Portland just got worse..and these guys WON A DRAFT LOTTERY.

Sacramento has sucked for FAR too long for their rebuild to respected…thought I’ll admit I see a light at the end of their tunnel…but not to anything more than being a decent team.

To succeed in a traditional rebuild you have a small window to turn your tank picks into a core because once their contracts are up, you become handcuffed and have to re-sign these guys. Once they get their second contracts, they automatically lose trade value. This is all assuming that you both get high enough picks and make the right picks. A team can be in the lottery and strike out multiple times and end up screwed. Handing out FA contracts is a scary thing, to steal players you have to overpay typically and that’s assuming their even willing to play for your franchise.

Even at that, you can still end up with a muddle your progress if you make bad selections at GM, coach and scouts…at which point mistakes can be made, players development can (Please Use More Appropriate Word), and bad decisions can throw the team in reverse.

I LOVE the idea of a traditional rebuild, but it’s a huge crapshoot unless you can stockpile lottery picks…not the easiest feat. You have to suffer through one or two AWFUL seasons to get high enough picks or get tremendously lucky…and at the end of the day, you still could end up screwed.

As Najeh stated in the past the Hawks were on the right draft until they drafted Sheldon Williams and Marvin Williams instead of who we all know should’ve been drafted.

Chicago (91-93, 96-98), Houston (94-95), San Antonio (99, 03, 05, 07), Miami (06, depends who you think was the best player, Wade or Shaq), LA (09-10), Dallas (2011)

These teams also had generational type talents on their teams. MJ, Hakeem, Duncan, Wade, Kobe, Dirk. Then there’s LBJ and Durant for now. Those types of players are one of a kind and don’t come along often

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[Childress]^^^^^^

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slim, I don’t think you give Horford enough credit. Here’s a look at how Al did in his last full season.

2010-11 Season Rankings For Centers In Order (Top 5) :

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/year/2011/position/centers

Scoring: D12 / Bargnani / BLopez / AJefferson / Horford

Rebounds: D12 / Jefferson / Okafor / Chandler / Horford

FG%: Nene / D12 / Okafor / MGasol / Horford

FT%: Bargnani / Horford / BLopez / Jefferson / Zaza

Assists: Horford / CHayes / Duncan / MGasol / Hibbert

Ast / TO: CHayes / Horford / Duncan / Jefferson / MGasol

DBL / DBL: D12 / Jefferson / Horford / Duncan / Bogut

Steals: D12 / Monroe / Nene / CHayes / MGasol (Horford was 6th)

Blocks: Bogut / JMcGee / D12 / Darko / Bynum (Horford was 17th)

So despite being undersized for his position, Horford was Top 5 in seven of the nine categories, and 6th in another. The only category he was lacking in, was (no surprise here) blocked shots. No other center in the league had as many top 5 stats. What that means is that Horford, despite being undersized, had a helluva regular season. It also means that most folks on this blog fail to realize how all around solid he is in many facets of the game.

Playoffs? He sucked, though I disagree that he was “shut down” when he missed shots that he had hit all year. Going back to the tape, he just shot horribly, whether closely guarded or not. It happened to Dirk in more than one playoff series, not that Al could EVER be a finisher like Dirk. No freakin’ way. But the point is, that I’d like to see him in the playoffs again and judge how much he learned.

I want to see Al back in the paint more often. It was starting to happen when he got hurt. We’ll see just how much he’s affected. But slim, you need to give him a little credit. Most top 5s of any center in the league? C’mon man, give him some props.

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Orlando GM = Scrooge !

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Read Kobe comments below from Sekou blog. Again I don’t know why teams continue to embarrass themselves when making trades with the Lakers. The Lakers walk away with a steal every time (maybe excluding the Shaq trade).

““We joked around about it a little bit during the summer,” Bryant said. “The consensus was there was no way we could get Dwight and still keep Pau, and they all love Pau for us. So they were like, ‘there is no way you’re going to let Pau go, and therefore you can’t Dwight.’ And I was like, ‘I think we can make that happen.’ We got Pau for virtually nothing [when we traded for him]. History does repeat itself.””

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“The Lakers walk away with a steal every time (maybe excluding the Shaq trade)”

Why does it look like the “godfather” has his blessing written all over this deal? Hmmm

Anytime you do business with Boston or the Lakers its going to hurt…

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Al THORTON – Danny he makes more sense with the Hawks give you a legit SF who is hungry, also has payed his dues overseas avg. 25 points a game.

Plus he is from Georgia so bring him back home Danny.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Sorry Sautee [one of the expert apologists] on this blog but 44 years of futility is way beyond unacceptable.

This Allstar 5 will not change that streak by any stretch….

Rev is right on this one. That potential trade with his [Al] involvement would have been a spectacular Franchise changing event..Oh well…

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Slimjr,

If the Hawks had traded Josh Smith for Dwight Howard, would it have been a franchize changing event (in your mind)?

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Josh for D12?????????????????

Submit a comment:

Why bother?

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OB,

Do you still think Broussard lied about the Hawks offering to trade with the Magic?…:-)

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FTPB

“Najeh, the Magic’s 2009 Finals appearance was an aberration.”

Haha. How come the Hawks don’t have these kind of “aberrations”? You would think we would have had an “aberration” here in Atlanta at some point in the last 50 years.

A Finals appearance is no aberration. That team made the Finals because Dwight Howard is a great f-cking player. Just because he isn’t Hakeem in the post doesn’t mean he isn’t better than anyone who has worn a Hawks uniform in 20 years.

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“As much as people hated Marvin around here, they may be longing for him come Christmas.”

I don’t think anyone would have minded Marvin the past few years if he was a bench player on a non-guaranteed contract, as he should be.

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“Now they have a bunch of parts that don’t fit, near useless cap space in the future and a wasted season.”

Is it any more wasted than any of the last several seasons with Joe leading the Hawks to first and second round playoff defeats?

Joe’s trade value was going to plummet for the remainder of his contract. Ferry traded him while he still had enough value to get a pick and expiring deals instead of having to absorb bad contracts from other teams. I am disappointed that the Hawks couldn’t get Dwight (thanks to the Magic being dicks according to Jeff Schultz) but the Joe trade had to be made if this team wanted any chance of improving.

And I will also say it is quite likely this team will make the playoffs and lose in the first round just as well in 2013 as they did in 2012.

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Sh-t, even Denver — who pulled off maybe the best superstar trade this league has seen in the last 10 years — hasn’t won a playoff series since Carmelo left, and Carmelo managed to take them to the conference finals.

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Najeh,

Major co-signs from me.

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To comment on another team, HOU screwed themselves. The accumulated all those assets to make a push for D12 trade, and now stuck with a boatload of PF/SFs and contracts with J. Lin and O. Asik with huge back-end payouts in a short couple of years.

I been harping on making some deals with them or waiting them out to see if any of those young wing players shake loose from H-town …. just wait it out.

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Something has to give in Philly. Hawes didn’t sign to be a backup, but they have a very good young team:
Bynum / Young / Turner / Holliday / Wright

Thorn has done another excellent job like he did in Jersey. He made it look easy and Bynum becomes the superstar big man in the East. It looks good at least for this year for Philly. I think they will miss Lou though.

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I think the article is saying a lot. First, Ferry is in no rush to make a deal. Sescond, he cannot trande anyone he acquire until September. I really think D. Harris or Morrow maybe a couple of players will be included in a deal. I do wish we can acquire a Wilson Chandler.

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I could go for Wilson Chandler. Also think Austin Daye is available for trade.

I could see us getting Sam Young on a non-guaranteed. He seems like he fits the profile of what we want.

And unless we signed Benson, we only have 13 roster spots now, we never signed Mike Scott. We already have 4 power forwards so I have no idea why we need him anyway

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I think Bynum will stay. He grew up about over an hour from Philly and he will essentially be the man in Philly. Will depend on how mature and focused he is. He may look to bolt if it goes south and they get off to a bad start. A lot of Philly development will depend on Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner who they seemed to have given the keys too with Iggy gone. They also have Richar4dson who while not as good as he used to be is serviceable. Bynum is their best center they got since Mutumbo. Interesting with Bynum in Philly now the Atlantic Division will definetely have 4 teams make the playoffs celtics, nj/ny and philly.

Then you have Miami as a lock which would make 5 and the Pacers as another lock makes 6. Bulls are an unknown to me right now but at the worst, you will then have teams such as the Hawks, Bucks, Pistons, Cavs, Toronto fighting for 1 possibly 2 playoff spots.

I do think the Hawks make the playoffs

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Romney just introduced Paul Ryan as “the next president” lol

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pointguardslim

August 11th, 2012
9:20 am

“I would say probably a wing that can compete defensively at a high level would be a good thing to be able to add at some point,” Ferry said.

PGS: Josh Smith
Najeh: Mike Dunleavy

And Josh is not a top 3 pf. He does nothing a power big man should do.
He’s a wing who can guard some big men.

********************

Nope . . .

Other than rebound ( 5th amongst PFs ) . . and block shots ( 2nd amongst PFs )

But people still want him to play SF on a full time ( or mostly full time ) basis?

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Sautee – I agree from your post last night. I cannot believe all the Al Horford hate. After watching ZaZa and Collins – I will enjoy watching one of the top tier centers in the league.

Jermaine O’Neal is also available. Does anyone think he would look good in a Hawk uniform?

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Orlando gave Dwight away for spare change. Will they have any fans left after this?

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NORTHCYDE-You are assuming that we will only consider the FA route to acquiring a SF. As of Sept 11, we can trade any of the players we acquired in the JJ and Marvin trade. That might be the way Ferry prefers to go, since it trades salary for salary and doesn’t affect our cap space. It also allows us to get something for a player, or players, that we’ll most likely not resign anyway.

And just for the record, I’d do a sign and trade of Josh and a pick, or Zaza, for Bynum.

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Mike Scottt playe great Basketball in the summer league. There is a chance he could stick as a “3″ for the Hawks. He is a solid Post player and defender,

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The players who will make the Atlanta Hawks “contenders” are either playing high school or college Basketball. Having said that, they must parlay more of their “Veteran Scrubs” into higher Draft Picks.

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Anyone noticed that Mitch Kupchak looks taller than Dwight at the press conference and they have Mitch listed at 6-9 in wikipedia…. Hmmm, did back surgery shrink Howard….lol

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By the way PGS, last season Josh played more Center than he did SF. So the first season where he played majority of his minutes NOT on the wing, he produced his best season to date. And now you want to change that? I’d rather have a Josh who is averaging 18 and 9 at PF, than a Josh who is averaging 20 and 6 at SF.

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I’m sorry Melvin. But as much as I like D12, he is NOT in the top 20 centers to ever play the game in my book.

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Ramon,

I respect your opinion but you do get my point how the Lakers acquire top talent. Heck, they didnt even draft Kobe….

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ag,

Jermaine O’Neal agreed to sign with the Suns today…

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Ra’mon,

Amen. I wouldn’t do trades with the Lakers either. They will acquire the other team superstar player and then sell the other team on the idea of having cap space and draft picks to built for a future that will never happen. In the meanwhile, the Lakers would add a player that would catapult them to the NBA finals….

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As much as people hated Marvin around here, they may be longing for him come Christmas.

Not likely. Those who hated Marvin unequiocally due to whatever obsessive nature they have will never change their minds (or the subject, for that matter). Those who got tired of him being no more than he is will appreciate what he WAS capable of, and still remember that he was overpaid while doing it.

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CDOG-You brought up a very interesting point about Ferry being able to get the job done. Before he came on board, and for various reassons like the lawsuit, the ASG wasn’t willing or able to extend themselves financially. Plus, BK and Sund got the team in trouble with bad contracts, some of which was done at the behest of former HC MWoodson. He was the one who wanted Bibby and Marvin resigned.

If you look at the Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, and other franchises that have longterm winning track records, they have solid ownership and are always run by GMs that know talent and what they’re doing. Ferry came from the Spurs, so he’s well versed in how that works. He’s put the Hawks in position to take a major leap forward, and that’s with or without DHoward.

I’m certain Ferry will make a play for Howard, since he has everything to gain and nothing to lose by trying, but I believe he’ll make an even bigger play for Bynum. You don’t necessarily need the NBAs most physically dominant, and best DEF center, to become a championship caliber team. You can accomplished the same by having a combination of the NBAs 2nd and 3rd best centers(Bynum/Horford), who are also more offensively skilled and efficient.

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I am amused with suggestions that folks are gonna miss Joe and Marvin, though. Yeah, if you’re more committed to the individual players than you are the team, that may be so.

Otherwise, I think a change of scenery, so to speak, won’t necessarily be a bad thing. Sure, the days the jumpers aren’t falling, the defense is letting everything through, and the coach looks clueless as far as a solution….those days won’t be fun.

But here’s the odd thing – we had that when Joe and Marvin were here. So I don’t see the difference. Names change, that’s about it. I think we’ll be less capable defensively, and Josh/Al are gonna have to work much harder on the boards, because the only rebounders I see on the top 7-8 rotation guys are Al, Josh, and Zaza.

That’s where you miss Joe and Al – on the boards (well, when Marvin decided to rebound, that is). And on defense (smaller defenders on our perimeter now).

But that’s Danny Ferry’s job to fix via trade or free agency. I don’t think he’s quite done, and for once….there are any number of ways our front office could go to balance things out.

Joe and Marv will only be missed by those on here who loved them best. By contrast, what they could and did do will be missed…but folks won’t be thinking about their names when that shows up in games and on the stat sheet.

Unless of course, Ferry finds creative ways to mitigate the problem. Of course, that also involves LD….so….

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Ken Strickland You are that horford worshiper that people are saying is clueless. We are trying to win a championship for the city of Atlanta so we wish youd shut up with the Al Horford mediocre player movement, you anal minded moron.

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“I would say probably a wing that can compete defensively at a high level would be a good thing to be able to add at some point,” Ferry said.”

“And, Ferry said, if the Hawks do sign a free-agent wing, it’s likely the player would have to accept a non-guaranteed contract.”

First of all, players of this calibre aren’t tradeable. No NBA teams will trade “high level” wing defenders regardless if they have redundancy or not. Second, if Danny expects to acquire such player for non-guaranteed contract.is more “wishful thinking”. Third, because the Hawks have loss some size with JJ and marvin gone, this replacement wing defender must also “size”. These types of apples just don’t grow on trees and certainly not in the NBA at basement prices.

If the Hawks had more versatile players, the wouldn’t be so concern about capping-out their roster. I’m still not certain of what Jordan William value to the team other than him taking up a roster spot. Maybe the player development dept. can bring out more of his skills. I like his size but I would like to say more.

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“this replacement wing defender must also have “size””.

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Orlando actually did the right thing, They got something rather than nothing.

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Al yall horford haters need to give it up. We like horford as a person. He doesnt have to produce. Hes is my hero and won the 22 Olympic gold medals the super bowl, the Ryder cup, the Stanley cup and every thing. Stop the hate.

Al horford forever!

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Troll,

Haven’t seen anybody saying anything about your poster child (you know who). As for Petro, if you din’t recognize that as a joke from you, then it’s time to have a drink or a smoke.

Hence all the LOL faces at the end of my post. Petro’s been passed around this League like a $2 skank…

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Last thought:

“Atlanta Hawks: Danny Ferry covets wing player but no hurry to add one”

Of course Danny is in no hurry. This roster he has assembled is not a roster for LD to win, but by design, to fail.

Don’t read his lips; watch his hips (or his moves). If the Hawks starts the season with 5 SGs and no real SF, then that theory is confirmed.

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Big Butt Ray, I kinda of figure that may have been your best effort at humor. Point made. Still. hes on the roster and do you see him getting any significant time?

No, I dont know who the poster child is that you reference.

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A staff of Red Auerbach, Pop, Phil Jackson, George Karl and Doc Rivers couldn’t get this roster (plus a non-guaranteed SF of your choice) into the 2nd round.

Wait until 2013-14.

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I wish Marvin much success in Utah. However, i do believe he has an “Inflated” view of himself and consequently underachieved as a Basketball player. Many were hoping he would be a modern day James Worthy because they both went to North Carolina, quite frankly, that’s where the similarities stopped. Marvin is “Vet minimun” guy at best!

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If I am Ferry, I find a way to trade Morrow for an expiring SF thats out there. JJ2 needs the PT, and we already have a shooter in Korver.

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WPL, LAL have Meeks and Jamison on their bench currently. And their recruiting Kenyon Martin to join the bench.

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“But you want him to change position because of 3 or 4 SFs/PFs?” – Ra’mon

How is that any different from Horford besting all but 3 or 4 centers in the league? That makes this blog want a different center.

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Stop Farting

No, I dont know who the poster child is that you reference.

No, that was my best effort at humoring a person who has the…ahem…”ingenuity” to post as a bodily function….

No, I can’t see Petro getting much time on the floor for us. Like I said, he’s just a guy we had to take as part of the deal. And he’s been part of several deals in his career.

I figured you wouldn’t get the poster child joke, but it’s all good.

Fact is, several of the guys who just arrived on our roster may not be there at the start of the season, or might not make it past the trade deadline. I don’t know who that might be, though.

What I can’t see is us going into the season with Korver as our starting SF…or our only one.

And yeah, Horford is our center…for now. Not certain that remains the same either. With Ferry here and in control, all things are possible.

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The Hawks will take an entirely different approach to playing this season. Ferry has acquired the type of players that will allow the team to consistently play uptempo basketball, and has openly stated that’s how the team will play. It will be up to LDrew to make it happen, which will be something former GM Billy Knight tried unsuccessfully to get former HC MWoodson to do.

As far as sizen is concerned, or a perceived lack thereof, the Heat won this yrs NBA title with a 6′10″ none physical jump shooting center, two 6′ 8″ forwards, a 6′ 4″ SG, and a 6′ 2″ PG. So get off our perceived lack of size preventing us from making it to or past the 2nd rd.

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Also, Dwight is coming off an injury as well, but I didn’t see any noticeable drop in HIS value.

Ain’t that the truth. Here’s the funny part – there is one guy who might make Dwight look as good or better than even Steve Nash. His name is Pau Gasol.

When’s the last time Howard had anything other than a “stretch 4″ next to him in the paint? Gasol has far more moves than Howard does down low, he can hit jumpers, but even more than that….he rebounds. Howard’s always been on his own in that department. Same thing would have happened in Atlanta.

I’ll tell you why the Hawks didn’t get that trade done. I guarantee that since we didn’t have the draft picks, the Magic were demanding both Horford and Smith in the deal.

There’s no way that they would have taken Horford, Teague, a draft pick and some trash…at least not without us taking back some bad contracts that would continue for a while (Turkoglu, Richardson). The same morons that scream for Howard and bash Horford at the same time…somehow expect the team that used to have him to take such a deal. WTF-ever…

I’ve never understood that. If Horford and Teague aren’t that great, then why in the devil would Orlando be happy with getting them in a deal for Howard?

I really think that was the sticking point for Ferry, and it damn well should have been. Magic probably said, “either give us Horford AND Smith, or give us the other package and take back Turkoglu/Richardson.”

That doesn’t work for us, because neither player had an expiring contract, meaning it would hurt our sizeable cap space for next summer. We’d have far less of a chance at winning out in free agency.

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There are 2 things that Ferry is a stanch advocate of, which is player development and playing uptempo fast break basketball. Player development means that Scott and Jenkins will get their share of mins. Suppose Ferry traded Harris and maybe Morrow for a starting caliber SF.

That could open the door for Jenkins to start at SG. With Jenkins, Williams, Korver, Smith, Horford, Teague, and whoever we have at SF, we would definitely be able to run and score pts, especially from the outside. The hope is for this team to be able to play enough DEF, especially perimeter DEF, to make our OFF more effective.

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WHAT IS THE DEAL HERE ? WHY HAS THIS TEAM NOT BEEN SOLD AND MOVED ?

WHO EVEN GIVES A DAMN ABOUT nba BASKETBALL, IT STINKS.

THEY NEVER WIN OR EVEN SHOW UP. HAVE THE MOST DISHONEST OWNERS IN PRO SPORTS, THEY LIE, MOSTLY LIAR STUPIDNEL !!!!

GET THIS WORTHLESS TEAM OUT OF THIS CITY, I CANNOT BEILEVE A DUKE MAN WOULD NOT DO ALL HE COULD TO MOVE TO SEATTLE, A MUCH BETTER PLACE FOR THIS CRAP FRANCHISE !!!!!!!! MOVE MOVE MOVE NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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GUYS YOU KNOW I’M JUST KIDDING. ATLANTA IS A GREAT SPORT TOWN AND SEATTLE SUCKS. THAT CITY HAD A TEAM AND BLEW IT. NO TEAM WILL EVER GO THERE AGAIN.

THE CLOUDY WEATHER IN SEATTLE MAKES ME SICK. I ENVY ATLANTA AND THE SUNNY SOUTH. I’M JEALOUS AND HATE THE GOOD TIME YALL HAVE ON THIS BLOG.

I WANT YALL TO BE AS MISERABLE AS I AM. EVERY TIME YOU LAUGH I CRY

HAVE A BAD NIGHT

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“Wishful thinking won’t change the fact that playing with Josh, IN ATLANTA, wasn’t/isn’t one of his desires.”

We have no idea whether that’s true or not, because according to Jeff Schultz, the Hawks didn’t even get a chance to talk to Dwight because the Magic wouldn’t trade him within the division.

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“What would you Hawks fans analyze are the Hawks needs?are there for a certain positions or is it for a superstar player?”

A superstar player is the biggest need of any team that doesn’t have a superstar player. That has been the Hawks’ biggest need since February 24, 1994.

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addition through subtraction.
Big Al and the Hawks prospects have gotten better in the east cause D12 has gone to the west.
without D12 in the east maybe Big Al won’t mind playing center so much now.
go Hawks.

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Here is how I see the Eastern Conference this coming season:

1). Miami
2). Boston
3). Indiana
4). Philadelphia
5). New York
6). Brooklyn
7). Chicago
8). Atlanta
9). Teams a few games behind the Hawks are Milwaukee and Washington

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Wilson Chandler,Alonzo Gee,Delfino……..IN that order..Its early but ol Danny Boy might want to get us a vet C, Zaza and Jump Shot are all we currently hv : (

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BRIGADIERJERRY-Each of the last 4-5yrs the Hawks have exceeded the projections of most Hawk fans and prognosticators. I believe the same will hold true for this yrs team. Here’s why I say that.

1-CHICAGO-They had trouble scoring points with DRose, so you can guess how much more difficult it will be for them to score without him. And there’s no one they can sign or trade for that will replace what he does for their team.
2-BOSTON-They got a slight upgrade by signing JTerry and letting RAllen go. They also got rid of some of the anomosity that existed between Allen and Rondo. They’re still weak inside, and both KG and Pierce are showing the effects of age and injuries, although KG was awsome during the playoffs. That’s was more of a last hurrah than a sign of things to come.
3-INDIANA-They are a very talented team, but there seems to be something missing. I can’t say what it is, but with all of their talent, they’ve been unable to match our success in the playoffs. I do know they’ve been going through PGs trying to find one that can harnass that talent.
4-PHILADELPHIA-Although they’ve acquired Bynum, they lost their leading scorer, LWilliams, and their best all around player, Iggy. And although I’m not certain, they may have lost EBrand. If not, he’s certainly not anywhere close to what he use to be. And with Bynum clogging up the middle, he’ll be even less effective.
5-NEW YORK-With Woodson having an entire off season and training camp to install his beloved ISO OFF, which won’t be very hard to figure out or add that to his obsession for playing over the hill vets over younger more talented players, they won’t be a big obstacle for the Hawks. They’ll certainly crash and burn in the playyoff with his style of play and inaquate coaching, assuming they even make it to the playoffs.
6-BROOKLYN-I honestly don’t know what to expect from this team. They definitely have the talent to be dangerous, but a lot of roles will have to change with the addition of JJ. How well DWill and Lopez adjust to JJ will be key. After all, duing his entire stay as a Hawks, he hijacked the OFF whenever he felt like it.
7-MIAMI-I don’t know how much of an improvement, if any, RAllen and RLewis will be over MMiller and SBattier, but they’re still the team to beat.

I believe the Hawks have the talent to finish ahead of Chicago, New York, and Philly, while Indiana and Brooklyn are question marks. It all depends on what we have to give up, and who we acquire at SF. I see us definitely grabbing a 5-6 seed, and depending on injuries, pro and con, we could finish higher. One thing’s certain, Miami is the only Eastern Conference team that can run with us and match our speed, quickness, and athleticism.

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Grandad . . I just watched the Gold medal game. And I watched a Spain team with 2 big men in the post ( the Gasol brothers ) damn near beat the best we have to offer.

“Positionless basketball” only works if you have ELITE LEVEL players who can be very good to dominant at multiple positions. The Hawks just don’t have that. What we have are two guys ( Horford and Smith ) who are good players who can play a few positions.

LOL @ Vava . . . oh no . . Pau is too “soft”. And of course, if you’re “soft”, that means you’re not good.

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Bynum is the one with the attitude problems and the health issues, not Dwight. Dwight just has problems saying and doing what he wants because he is too nice. Bynum has issues.

Via Charley Walters, Pioneer Press
Before the Los Angeles Lakers traded Andrew Bynum to the Philadelphia 76ers, the Lakers tried to peddle Bynum to the Timberwolves, who said no thanks. …. The Timberwolves are 100-to-1 odds to win the NBA championship next season, according to the Bovada Las Vegas betting service.

Quote:
Bynum went to Jim Buss and demanded that Mike Brown to be fired. Bynum was fined repeatedly for showing up late to practices. Bynum also refuse to have a sit down with Brown, Buss, and Mitch.

Quote:
Bynum comments after game 5 against the Thunder were the final straw. Buss met with his father and Mitch to decide that it was time to trade Bynum. The Lakers were also worried that Bynum had his fourth knee surgery this summer. Bynum will be 25 when the season starts. The Lakers did not want to hand over their franchise to an immature big man with knee problems.

Quote:
“The Lakers knew Bynum would get worse. Especially in a contract year. A LA times reporter claimed that Bynum thought he was untouchable. He went so far as to say “What are they going to do when Kobe retires? Build around Pau or Fish.”

Quote:
Via Joe McDonnell, FoxSportsWest
Ask a Laker player off the record if he felt that Drew would ever outgrow his me-first attitude, many times they’d say probably not. One player even told me that he thought Bynum was playing the game for money. “I don’t think he really likes playing or has a lot of passion for it. He’s doing it because he’s good at it and can make a lot of money.” …. Bynum, when asked about the possibility of being traded during this past season, responded by saying “banks are in every city” giving credence to the theory he’s in it for the money and that’s about all.

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“Pau Gasol’s critics had a good opportunity to review their opinion.

Excellent gold medal game.”

Pau played very well, but he was supposed to. The USA had no big men, and decided to play small ball.. Pau will look excellent with Dwight in LA also. IF you can pair him with a dominant big man, he is a very good PF. I he has to play center, and guard other bigs he has problems defensively because he is soft. He dam sure looked better than Horford did.

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“And SMH @ Ken talking about how JJ “hijacked” the offense whenever he felt like it. Like the Hawks had ANY players on the team who could create their own shot or even make big shots when the game was on the line. The only guy who was close to being able to do that, was Jamal Crawford.”

At least you are honest. I know it hurt you to give Jamal some credit, but you are exactly correct. That is why we needed him.

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Depending on who we end up getting to play SF, here’s how I see this yrs team stacking up with last yrs team.

1-Whoever we get to play SF will surely be able to average more than the 3.7RPG we got from JJ.
2-LWilliams’ 14.9PPG was more than the combined 13.2PPG of WGreen( 5.6PPG) andJPargo(5.6).
3-AMorrow’s 12PPG was more than MWilliams 10.2PPG.
4-DHarris’ 11.3PPG was more than KHinrich’s 6.6PPG.

If you combine the total PPG averages of the top 4 players we’ve acquired so far this yr, and compare the results to the total PPG of the 5 players we’ve lost, you’ll be surprised.

LWilliams-14.9
AMorrow–12.0
DHarris—-11.3
KKorver—–8.1
Total——-46.3

JJohnson–18.8
MWilliams-10.2
WGreen—–7.6
JPargo——-5.6
KHinrich—–6.6
Total———48.6

I’m certain we can expect more than 3.7RPG and the 2.3PPG difference in scoring from our new starting SF. We definitely haven’t lost anything as far as OFF is concerned. In fact, I believe we’ve gained significantly in that area. And the above example doesn’t even factor in the scoring potential of our draft picks, Scott and Jenkins, or the scoring of AHorford, which we were without for most of the season.

With us playing more uptempo fast break style basketball, we should be able to get far more high percentage scoring opportunities. Our DEF might not be as good as it was last yr, but it won’t be as bad as some might think. Besides, our improved OFF should be more than capable of making up the difference.

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Ken,

Understood in regards to your points, I stated that the Hawks before the Philly acquisition of Bynum that they would battle between 6-8 seed but even if the Hawks get a SF like Chandler from Denver who i think is available I dont see the Hawks finishing at the very best higher than the 6th seed. I see Indiana and Philly finishing ahead of the Hawks as well as NY and Brooklyn. From a talent standpoint this team right now isnt as good as last year although Horford is back.

Also what are your thoughts on LD as coach?Do you think he will do more with less since the talent isnt as good as last year or u think he will be mediocre again because I am not the biggest fan of LD. I feel this team will be somewhat tailor made for him because I think he cares more about offense than defense.If you have young willing athletes you can teach them D. You need players with actual offensive skill to have go offense and the Hawks have that. System and effort can cover up for a lack of “talent” on D. If you have a lack of offensive talent you are pretty well screwed as a coach.

I think the team will be much better offensively but suffer defensively.

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ROD FROM CP-Now that the DHoward trade has been completed, it’s been revealed that the Magic refused to trade him to any team within their division, which included the Hawks. So you can stop making up theories about something you know very little about to justify bashing the Hawks for something they had no control over.

NORTHCYDE-You act like there’s some written NBA or team rule that limits who will be allowed to take the last shot. We have several players that are capable of taking the last shot, starting with JTeague, DHarris, LWilliams, AHorford, KKorver, JJenkins, and AMorrow. You act like it doesn’t count if someone other than a designated player, like JJ, takes the shot.

Whoever ends up with the ball at the time the shot needs to be taken will be the one to take the final shot. It’s just that simple. Ball and player movement, rather than having everyone clearout so 1 player can pound the ball in ISO mode before going 1 on 4-5, will be the determining factor at the end of gms. If you put a combination of Korver, Jenkins, Morrow, Teague, or Harris, along with Horford and Josh on the floor for the last shot, who do you think the DEF will double team or focus on?

There’s always more than one way to skin a cat, or win a basketball gm.

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I see some of you guys have Hawks finishing 8th, this team may be even better than last year with Joe and Marvin exiting.

Devin, Lou, Korver, Morrow give you a team with more ball movement also being able to play Josh at SF and Horford at PF with Zaza starting at center, will make this a better defensive team and more transition basket for the Hawks, i say Hawks will finish 4th seed or better.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Ken S.-
Brand is in Dallas now filling the void for the upcoming season. He may play very well with Notwitski and a cheap acquisition.

Grandad-
Billy Knight = ahead of his time
Unbelieveable….Knight went out and traded for Bibby, so the admitted, interchangeable parts theory was thrown out the door.
Along with that, the best the Hawks did under BK was 37-45 and lost in the 1st round.
Do we need to be reminded on how many guys he passed on? BK had an idea, and one that didn’t work or he would still be employed somewhere and making decisions. Last I heard, he’s at the barber shop telling his tales about how Woody. And yet we see Woody gainfully employed in the Big Apple.

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G-dad @ 1:09 pm

” However the intelligentsia on this blog equates him to Al ”

Yawl act as if that`s a bad thing.

Myself, however, considers it a compliment to Al.

Al being another player
who is ripped to shreds on this here blog by some.
All the while being an elite player whom I am dang proud …
he`s wearing our Hawks jersey !

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Orlando so concerned about trading D12 within their division that they went out and decided to screw the entire league by dealing him to LA.
I gotta say they’re as incompetent as the ASG after this decision.

How so many clueless people are gainfully employed in the NBA is amazing! This will be the all-time worse trade in NBA history and it exceeds the Russell-to-Celtics deal and Kobe-to-LA deal easily.

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KevinM

” Unbelieveable….Knight went out and traded for Bibby,
so the admitted, interchangeable parts theory
was thrown out the door ”
___________________________________________

Take the whole context !!!
___________________________________________

” Then he lost his way ”
” he drafted the Williamses ”

Please do not quote me out of context !

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I forgot to add Blair is a good ball handler and potentially you can have Josh, Horford, Blair all able to dribble and lead the break and run give and go with a guard.

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Teague, Korver, Josh, Horford, [Blair + Zaza]

Devin, Lou, Al Thorton, Ivan, [Blair + Zaza]
active: Jenkins, Morrow, Korver
Petro

Thinking Blatche might crumble and lash out for P.T. w/o a contract under his belt . I no longer wish for that.

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I went to lunch – so KS actually addressed a lot of what I was going to say. But my opinion:
Philly will not be a four seed. They lost three of their best players (Iggy, Brand, Lou) and replaced them with Bynum and Kwame Brown. They have 3 C’s and no power forwards. They also lost Meeks. They added Nick Young – and I imagine Thaddeous Young will start. Don’t see a go to guy when times get hard. Philly will make the playoffs, but a 7h seed at best.

NY record without Lin is .500 at best. Amare has clearly lost a step and their best defensive player is out. The Knicks are a playoff team – but certainly not a 5th seed. I think 6th is a better fit.

The Nets spent plenty of money and they are going to be better. Lopez is healthy and is arguably the second best center in the East. Humphries averaged a double-double and Joe keeps pressure off of D-Will. Because of the huge salaries – this team looks a lot like the old Hawks – good starters, but awful bench. Still good enough to be a 4th seed.

The most debated team at work on a daily basis! I have to hear about how good the Bulls were without D. Rose. This year, they have to start off without him – and his replacements (C.J. Watson and John Lucas). They also lost Asrik. Only added the much traveled Nate Robinson – but even he is a downgrade compared to they other players that left. They will finish at about .500 and earn the 8th seed.

1. Heat
2. Celtics
3. Pacers
4. Nets.
5. Hawks.

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People keep talking about offense when it comes to the Hawks, but you better be talking about the defense. That’s where the problems are going to arise with this team, if Ferry keeps them as is.

Horford and/or Smith will have to significantly improve if the Hawks are going to get a top 5 seed in the East.

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BIG DOG,

Are you saying that the Hawks as constituted today will be a top 4 seed or better?

northclyde as I posted earlier today Hawks will be better offensively but suffer defensively.

Ken S and other Hawks fans

Do you think LD will do a good job with this team as constituted?If the Hawks get another SF that is decent and the Hawks get a top 4 or 5 seed or higher , than LD did one hell of a job. At best I see a 6 seed and at worst I see an 8th seed. Thoughts?

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Astro Joe,

That is true in regards to Knicks and Chandler although they do have Camby and Kurt Thomas at backup If Chandler gets hurt

Grandad,

I dont get Gasol hate either but I think it comes down to is players who are athletic are more highly liked of then ones that are skilled . I think this is true the Horford vs Smith debates as well.

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Ken, you may have forgotten that the Knicks added Jason Kidd (one of the best defensive PGs in the past 20 years in his prime) and Ronnie Brewer… to go along with Chandler and Shumpert.

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That lineup is just a transitional lineup. D. Harris will be traded during the deadline if not injured or struggling. Morrow will also be in the mix to be traded as will Korver. Wouldn’t really surprise me if Zaza goes if we struggle by mid season.
List of players that can/will test free agency in 2013.

Byron Mullens
Taj Gibson
O.J. Mayo
Brandon Rush
Kevin Martin
D.J. Augustin
Chris Paul
Andrew Bynum
Tony Allen
Monta Ellis
Nikola Pekovic
James Harden
Serge Ibaka
Dwight Howard
Andre Iguodala
Tyreke Evans
Al Jefferson
Paul Millsap

Ton of players out there. You can only roll 2 to 12 on the dice, just a matter of how things shake out.

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Sincerely hope that there is a shot blocker starting in the middle. Keith Benson is a “Legit 6 “10″ who could man the position until the 2013 NBA Draft comes around…

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ASTRO JOE-First, I don’t think Ferry traded JJ and Marvin for expiring contracts so he can sign draft picks, no matter how high they might be. He’s looking to add FA talent to the young developing talent we already have, like Teague, Jenkins, Scott, Horford, Josh, PSy, Morrow, and Benson.

Also, tanking the season to get a higher lottery pick won’t guarantee one doggone thing. Have you forgotten that Marvin and Shelden Williams were lottery picks? And please don’t forget the legendary #1 lottery picks that have failed miserably, especially GOden and QBrown.

I want our players and team to give it all they have and let the chips fall where they may. Besides, 1 of our 2 1st rd picks is lottery protected. JKidd no longer has the speed, quickness, or 1st step to get past his defender, so you know he’s no longer able to defend his position. They were forced to sign Camby to backup Chandler, because they know their perimeter DEF will be a black hole.

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Sautee

August 12th, 2012
5:16 pm

steven a, Bynum made $16M+ THIS year, but you somehow think he’ll sign a FA contract for
$12M / yr?

No one will “ever” pay Andrew Bynum 16mil per year again. He is too high risk.

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Steven A,

No one will “ever” pay Andrew Bynum 16mil per year again. He is too high risk.

When Bynum signed his 4 year $58 mil contract in 2008, he was coming off a season in which he played only 35 games (which was 2 years after he played only 46 games), but that didn’t stop the Lakers from giving him 4 years, $58 mil.

He may not get a max extension(which is probably close to $20 mil per), but he will get more than $12 mil (I think he gets in the $16 mil range again – especially if he has another good year).

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Ken, being in the lottery does not prevent us from signing free agents. Hawks could have 3 players signed next July (Horford, Lou & jenkins). Even if we bring back Teague and Josh, we’re looking at adding at least 8 players to the roster. We’re in a transition mode with the majority of the current roster headed elsewhere next summer.

BTW, all of this talk about trading Devin Harris. I hope we trade one of the 17 SGs before we trade one of two PGs.

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AJ, Morrow has to be the odd man out for the right price.

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Although, Miller might not can be traded quite that soon. (new FA signing)

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KevinM

We are agreed on the ineptness of BillyKnight.

However, his philosophy, vision, has been well documented.
* Five 6-9 playerrs who could all play [1] through the [5].
**Also remember – Demarr Johnson + Boris Diaw.

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@steven a smith

No one will “ever” pay Andrew Bynum 16mil per year again. He is too high risk.

If the Sixers dont, then the Rockets, Mavs maybe even the Hawks, plus 3 or 4 other teams will pay him max money next year. Bynum gonna get paid next year.

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Ra’mon,

Zaza really stepped up last year. But who is to say our win % would not have been better if we had a healthy Horford AND Zaza?

Either way, what do you think the Hawks should do next offseason when Zaza becomes a free agent (and I am confident he will expect a nice raise)?

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glw

August 12th, 2012
8:45 pm

If the Sixers dont, then the Rockets, Mavs maybe even the Hawks, plus 3 or 4 other teams will pay him max money next year. Bynum gonna get paid next year.

I think he will be offered Roy Hibbert kind of money.

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@steven a smith

I think he will be offered Roy Hibbert kind of money.

**********************

Hibbert was restricted coming off his 1st contract, actually he did get max or near max money.

Bynum is on his 2nd contract and his salary is 16 million. I would assume he will accept no less than a salary in the 17 mill a year range. So I would assume Bynum will do at least 4 yr/70 million range

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O’B, there’s no way to know if the Hawks would’ve played better with a healthy Al. I actually don’t think they would have, because with Horford in the line up, I don’t think LD would’ve allowed Josh to become the focal point as much in the second half of the season with Joe and Al still there.

Next off season, I hope the Hawks have a lottery pick. Rather from their record (though I doubt it) or from trading Harris (or Zaza) to another team at the trading deadline. Next season will have a high number of centers, and I think that will be the perfect time to draft Zaza’s replacement. Think about it. Even if the Hawks would’ve lost three more games this season, they would’ve been able to select Sullinger or Melo for Zaza’s replacement (though I’m happy with Jenkins). I feel like there is no way you go into 2013-2014 season with Zaza and Al both on the roster. If you move Al for a wing like Rudy Gay or Granger, then you re-sign Zaza. I actually would be for trading Zaza THIS off season for one of Houston’s rookie wing players.

Also, a deal I would explore (I know some will hate me for suggesting this, but oh well), is trading Horford and Morrow for Chandler and Shumpert. Next off season you go into the season with a chance of adding Harden and another all star caliber player to go with the front court of Chandler and re-signed Josh and Zaza.

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I still say a consolation prize for a C next offseason of Al Jefferson if we whiff on Howard and Bynum is not that bad. I don’t know what kind of money I throw at Jefferson however. 4 year 60 mill gets him? I don’t know.

But a frontline of The Al’s and Josh, with a backcourt of Lou,
Jenkins, and if we re-sign Teague and Zaza is not a bad foundation for a team going forward.

Still pretty young also, with all the major players still in their 20’s.

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Personally, I do not see Danny Ferry tanking this season,
nor do I see him going through the season undermanned.
He will try to win every game and finish as high as possible.
Then will try to go as far as the Hawks can go in the play-offs.
He will even make a deadline trade if necessary
to make our Hawks as letahal as possible in the play-offs.
LD must realize; he has a short leash.
Plus, LD must realize, it`s about [more] than winning;
he must convince Mr Ferry real quick, that he is a:
teacher, that he is fastidious [attn to details], he is prepared,
that he prepares his team to the fullest extent, he has a clue,
and most of all – he commands respect !
If Ferry does not witness such; LD will be gone … quickly !
Why ?
He is building a ” Winning Culture ” !
To do so he must hit the ground running and he knows it.
Next summer when Free Agents begin to sift through
potential landing sites;
Atlanta already will need to have changed our perception
as loserville.
Ferry knows this, he has jumped off to a great start.
Now he must build his momentum as he persuades FA`s
they wish to [live] and play in the ATL.
`Tis more than throwing $ at players;
they want to win and challenge for a ring.
DF must be able to “Give them that Hope”.

We will not become the SA Spurs overnight;
however, we must show that we are a 1st class organization
that is / who is striving to be the very best & win Championships.

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“We have several players that are capable of taking the last shot, starting with JTeague”

I seem to remember him throwing up a gigantic airball the last time he tried to take the last shot.

Teague is my favorite Hawk and I am not sorry to see Joe get traded, but nobody on this current roster has a track record of making shots in crunch time like Joe. There’s no getting around that.

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“People keep talking about offense when it comes to the Hawks, but you better be talking about the defense. That’s where the problems are going to arise with this team, if Ferry keeps them as is.”

Co-sign.

It is possible, if Teague makes the leap, that this team may end up better offensively this year than it did the last couple of years. But if they finish anywhere near their defensive ranking from last year it will be a miracle. That is what happens when you subtract two above-average-sized players from the lineup, who are at least decent defensively, and replace them with a bunch of undersized players who range from mediocre to terrible defensively.

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“Jamal has the talent to be a much better offensive basketball player than what he is. But it’s his crazy shot selection that will always keep him out of the discussion to be a guy you can count on to make plays.”

Likewise, Pau Gasol has the talent to be a much better overall basketball player than what he is. But being soft as tissue paper, he is kept out of the discussion of guys you can count on to lead teams anywhere meaningful. With his skills, he should have been a better version of KG.

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“For after Sept. 11: Anthony Morrow and Devin Harris for Wilson Chandler and Andre Miller.”

That would be amazing but I highly doubt Denver goes for that trade, seeing as how the best two players in the deal are both coming to the Hawks.

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Miami
Indiana
Washington
Boston
Brooklyn
Philly
Chicago
Atlanta

It is a real coin flip for me to pick between Chicago, New York, and Atlanta for the last two spots, but I am picking New York to miss mainly because I hate all New York teams. But those three teams are pretty much even to me.

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NAJEH DAVENPOOP-Over the last 3 yrs, the Hawk have exceeded the expectations and predictions of most fans and prognosticators, including you. I haven’t been one of those fans, so I have reason to be optimistic. I won’t say that LDrew’s MOTION OFF is revalutionary, but compared to Woodson’s total dependence on ISO Joe, it might appear that way to some.

I was alluding to his MOTION OFF when I said JJ consistently limited ball and player movement by hijacking the OFF to go ISO. Add Josh’s habit of stopping ball and player movement by launching jumpers as soon as the ball hit his hands, and there wasn’t much chance for Drew’s MOTION OFF to have much of an impact, at least not consistently.

It will be up to HC LDrew to install a team oriented DEF, much like the Bulls did so successfully under their new HC. If he’s unsuccessful, and the teams DEF falls apart because he can’t get it done, then he’ll be replaced. While DEF definitely has its place, you can’t hang your hat on it exclusively and expect to be a championship caliber team without the aid of a competent OFF.

Just ask the Bulls, who have struggled mightly offensively, especially in the playoffs, even though they’ve ranked in the top 2 defensively over the past 2yrs. I harken back to the Nuggets when everyone, especially Nugget fans, immediately assumed they would suffer offensively after trading PG AIverson, and defensively after trading OC MCamby. As it turned out, they actually improved, especially defensively, due to the impact of the new players they received in the 2 trades.

I’m not saying this will automatically happen with the Hawks, but it’s always a possibility. And you said you remember one(1) last min shot taken by Teague that was an airball. And in your mind, that 1 shot is the defining moment in his career as a potential clutch player. I guess you’ve never seen JJ miss badly on a gm winning shot.

Basketball is an ever changing sport that can be greatly impacted one way or the other by the addition or subtraction of just 1 or 2 players, or the right HC. LDrew definitely didn’t command the respect of JJ or Josh, and wasn’t any more of an inspiration to Marvin than Woodson was. But unlike Woodson, he was at least willing to bench Marvin for his lack of involvement and production.

This team will still have the same horses along the frontline that propelled this team last yr(Josh, Zaza, and Ivan). Add big man Petro, who was more productive than JCollins and EDampier combined, the return of Horford, and the stable of young, quick, fast, and athletic shooters we now have, and you have the potential for a very rewarding regular season and playoffs.

Fortunately for the Hawks, the season and playoff seeds will be determined by their play on the court, not the often bias and uninformed opinions and predictions of fans. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I don’t understand all the ZaZa love on the blogs? he did play okay – but I really don’t want him as our starting center. We have one of the top centers in the league – and has shown improvement every year. I am excited to see what he is going to do.

Ditto for Jeff Teague. He has shown improvement every year. The three starters we keep have improved. Our team will be good.

Lastly, wanted an opinion on the Summer Leagues. Williams and Pape Sy looked horrible. I think Benson and Jenkins looked good.

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“Najeh Davenpoop

August 13th, 2012
3:49 am
All you prognosticators keep sleeping on the Wizards. That team will make the playoffs this year.”

Najeh, I thought they had a shot at winning last year, but the youngsters didn’t step up like I expected. They do have more experience this year, but I won’t be predicting them for the playoffs. Wittman hasn’t done anything with any of his teams yet.

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I’d rather have Gasol at 19M then Joe at 21M.

Pau would improve our backline and I’d make him the team leader. It’s a shame Hawks’ management didn’t see his talent when we drafted him for Billy Knight. We decided on a 20/10 guy who played on bad teams every year instead.

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tayshawn prince please

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LD exceeded expectations so much as the HC that he continues to live on 1 year extensions.

Well, we’re down to 1 All-Star now, so let’s see what magic LD continues to keep us just above average. As long as LD is here, we’re all about being just above average at best.

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Rod from College Park
August 13th, 2012
11:17 am

We didn’t choke. We were:

1. Out-coached.
2. Shafted by the refs.
3. Had more significant injuries than the Celts.

You simply insist that we choked because you want forcefully to make the loss of Jamal “the issue” behind not getting past the first round.

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hoopshype just updated their team salaries for 2012. It is so nice not the see Marvin’s nimbers working against us. A great move by Danny to get anything of value.

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Injuries robbed Shariff. He was the heart and soul of the Hawks while he was here. I even witnessed him scoring 50 one night

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Hawks did not choke in the playoffs. THe Cs regularly whipped them. And Ivan Johnson never got off the bench to go up against KG. In Game 2, the undersized Josh Smith gets injured on a ludicrously routine big man play vs KG. A defensive rebound smdh

If we had Zaza it would have been different. Maybe a bigger core, Zaza for Marvin. Josh on Pierce, probably doesnt get injured on a rebound, and Zaza on KG, Horf on Bass.
Funny how Dampier and Collins played on the floor and Ivan never saw the floor though. Screw LD and his small lineups

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Including the Hawks QO to Teague, our 2013-2014 team salary is $13.3 mil. Impressive job by Ferry.

Hopefully we will spend wisely next year.

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@ O’Brien

Including the Hawks QO to Teague, our 2013-2014 team salary is $13.3 mil. Impressive job by Ferry.

********************

Actually its closer to 19 Mil with Lou contract included in there. So wishfully thinking the cap maybe increases a bit to 59/60 million. That leaves 40 million in cap space. But if Josh (15M) and Teague stay then its probably only around 20 million, enough to get 1 max player.

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Why would you start ZaZa. It appears a lot of Hawks fans feel like this is our best lineup. ZaZa’s is an assist killer! Also all his stats are worse than Al’s. He is a backup and will be a career backup!

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“ag

August 13th, 2012
12:26 pm
Injuries robbed Shariff. He was the heart and soul of the Hawks while he was here. I even witnessed him scoring 50 one night”

ag, I saw Tony Delk score 53 one night….I didn’t see SAR lead us to anything in this short time here. We had a losing record and we were the 12th best team in the East. That was when we had Terry, Kukoc, Big Dog, Theo Ratliff, and DeMarr Johnson. That team had very little success.

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Check the below with a Q and A with Danny Ferry… Oh, you better believe he wanted Howard….

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/34531/qa-hawks-gm-danny-ferry-on-dwight-howard-josh-smith-basketball-analytics-and-sam-prestis-wikipedia-page

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The Hawks will be better off if they can find a 3 who can score a multitude of ways..His game will be extremely valuable come playoffs..It is about time the front line step up and carry the team for a change which they have been unable to do 90 plus % of the time. The front line is the reason this team falters in the playoffs..They just seem easy to lock down on..”Game set and match”…Ooops, different game… LOL!

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All NBA vs. Bynum. A match up for the ages…

Yawn………………………………….

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Excellent find on Danny. His comment:
“The best we could do was status quo. And that wasn’t good enough for anybody.”

How long has this blog been saying that? It took a new GM to make something happen. I have the same sense it will take a new coach to get the right decisions made with discipline that LD doesn’t seem to have a handle on.

And Danny is definitely focusing on building from within, not via FAs if he is to follow the SA model. We’re going international and being developing more than ever.

So to Just Joe, perhaps he does keep a Benson or Mike Scott to groom from within. If there is a way to improve them from where they are today, Danny probably has that formula.

And the transformation of a leader will come this year in the form of Josh Smith. He will get lots of interest next year.

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AG, I get why we went after him, and it was right after we blew the roster up when Smitty and Mookie and Dikembe peaked in the 2nd round.
To me, it appears we were impatient at the time and wanted to get back to playoff basketball immediately.
Its hard to see where a rookie will take you, and Gasol has been a better 2 than 1. SAR never was able to get on a winning team and had that non-playoff game streak that rivaled Jamal Crawford.

Speaking on nastalgia, here’s one on Moses Malone that happened in Moses’ 3rd and last year in Atlanta in ‘91:
“Malone started at center for the first 15 games of the 1990–91 season, but then Atlanta’s new coach, Bob Weiss, moved him to the bench and made him Jon Koncak’s backup for the final 67 contests.”

For that one move, Weiss should have never held a management position ever again in the NBA. But of course, Sund found a way to hire him after we fired him.

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Rod from College Park

On that Celtics series, we had the opportunity to shut down the legacy of that Celtic regime, but they stepped all over us. Just inexcusable to let that team beat us like they did.

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Ferry just seems to be the smartest person to be in the Hawks’ organization since Lenny Wilkins (no matter what you say he knows his basketball). You have to like an individual who believes in playing chess with his roster moves, and not just checkers.

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18-6 the KNICKS were under Woody..[.775] winning %! Just awesome Hawk Fans…

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Melo is better than every Hawk, but I’d gladly take Al-Teague-Lou-Zaza (the next four best players on the Hawks) over Chandler-Amare-Felton-Shumpert (the next four best players on the Knicks) at this point in their careers. Maybe if Amare discovers the fountain of youth, Felton loses about 300 pounds, and Shumpert’s knee is as good as new I might change my mind on that.

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-tongue partially in cheek-

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“I can have Pau on my list `cause it`s my opinion.

I might easily differ from others.

LBJ / Durant / Rose / Rondo / Gasol / Westbrook / Al Jefferson
D.Howard [grudgingly] / D.Wade / *(tie) Steph Curry & Ray Allen
honorable mention:
Kobe; K.Love; Iguodola; Bynum; Nash”

Al Jefferson over Kobe, Steph Curry over Nash. LOL. Grandad, I quit smoking years ago, but if I ever start smoking again, I will make sure to get your info. Pau Gasol a top 10 NBA player. SMH

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Astro Joe

In response to your response.

I agree.

Mr Ferry will not take on a bad contract.

That was not the focus nor the intent of my message.

I think DF is going to do all in his power to win; without;
deviating from his roadmap.
Although, in the meantime, `tis just as important;
to establish:
proper habits [winning], championship mindset,
playing the right way *[his way], ‘ playing to win every night ‘,
playing smart, playing together, getting better together,
player development including veterans; e g, continuing to improve,
everyone playing the same [Hawk] way.

*playing his way = not to usurp his coach but:
[establishing a certain performance criteria]
___________________________________________

-none of this involves taking on a bad contract-

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R.f C.P.

* I included one spot for the best shooter in the game:
which = a tie – old Allen + young pup Curry

*Kobe & Nash slid due to age -(also Dirk & KG fell off)- same reason
*Love slid `cause of a lack 0` defense.
*Jefferson is the most underrated plyr in NBA
*Josh missed by a hare`s breath (hon mention)

Gasol most skilled Post Player in NBA since Hakeem.

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Definition of a SuperStar … or …*’`SuperDuperStar`’*

” They make their teammates better ”

-Yes-
They must have the requisite skill & ability & so forth & so on !

But, the ability to make their teammates better
is what sets them over the top.

A perfect example is ” Melo “.
He has every attribute that one would want in a star player … except.
” LBJ ” … on the other hand.

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http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/34531/qa-hawks-gm-danny-ferry-on-dwight-howard-josh-smith-basketball-analytics-and-sam-prestis-wikipedia-page

Charles Bethea: There is frustration about his tendency to want to shoot the three. Is that something you or Larry will talk with him about?

GM Ferry: I’m still learning our group. Ultimately, Larry will coach the guys. And put some boundaries on all of them. But I think Josh is a pretty darn good player. And the impact he can have in making other players around him better. We may play through him and Teague and Al more than we ever have, and I think they will accept that responsibility and make good decisions.

Charles Bethea: Nobody doubts Josh’s ability. It’s his decision-making that seems off sometimes.
GM Ferry: “You can go through every player and their strengths and places they need to get better. And we can go through that with Lou, and others, and those will all be worked with and coached. But there will always be things a guy can get better at.”

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I’m of the mindset that in a full 82 game schedule, The New York Knicks will be a “2″ or “3″ seed. Woody always impoves his teams. Besides, last season was shortened and injuries did not allow them to develop “elite team chemistry” I think New York moves ahead of Indiana.

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.775 projected over the course of an 82 game season projects out to over 60 wins…

18-6 during the most difficult stretch of their schedule is just incredible!!!!!

Hawks finish ahead of the Knicks? Bath Salts are no good for ya. Just stop it! It wrecks havoc on the 3 pound computer you carry upstairs…

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Oh I forgot to mention Woody lost 3 point guards and Amare while coaching that record…

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okay [75%], my bad…..

still impressive pointguardslim……

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Did not someone several Blogs ago try to convey to us that this Bozo is the [one] the Hawks should attempt to convince to come play for our under performing Hawks? Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Whew……….

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Slimjr did you just insinuate I was stephen a Smith?

Well I’m not. I actually thought you were Stephen a.

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actually there’s a team option.
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/08/rockets-carlos-delfino-agree-to-deal.html

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“PGS, I wish I were as brilliant as you, but thanks for the complement anyway[Right Hand Salute]…”

Yeah, you guys do complement each other. Enough said. And it was not a compliment.

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“While I agree that Amare is very injury prone now, he is a career 21ppg, 8.8rpg guy. Have to disagree with your analysis of him. He is much better than Horford in almost every aspect of the game except rebounding for his career, and that is only a minimal difference for their careers.”

21 and 8 in D’Antoni’s system with Nash feeding him the ball on pick and rolls. I wonder what Al would have done in that same system. Nash’s pick and roll partner, regardless of who it is (Gortat, Diaw, etc.) has put up beastly numbers pretty much without fail.

I’d take Amare over Al for scoring any day, but give me Al for everything else, defense included.

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Id take Amare over Al Horford any day. Al has never been impressive. The dude has peaked and is only slightly better than Jon Koncak. Hes about even with Zaza. Al plays better offense and Zaza better defense. Call it a draw. Thats why we did not miss Al at all.

Really Al is not an impact type guy and is better suited for as a role player. Thats Why Orlando did not want Al. Any team that is featuring Al is not trying to win a championship.

Lets be real.

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Dept. brings thoughts of that nagging girlfriend you’re so glad you dumped! LOL!

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For all of you that keep asking me about my relationship with Jerry Sandusky, where did we go?
Who saw us together? type questions, lets be clear, there is no evidence that I did anything wrong. Sandusky acted alone in those cases.

I really wish people would mind their own business.. What ever happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

Nothing can be proved. Jerry is in jail and I’m a free man.

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T-s,

Al’s last full season he had the most top 5 appearances in 9 categories of stats for centers of any center in the league. How did Amare do this year for PF? Any top 5’s?

Any at all?

I didn’t think so. And if you are rounding, than put Horford at 13 ppg career, since he is 12.8, not 12.

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Hawks>Knicks

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For Vava:

“New Knicks point guard Jason Kidd is moving into a luxury waterfront Upper West Side apartment — with its own basketball court. We are told the star is buying a place at the Aldyn at 60 Riverside Blvd. Apartments start at just under $1 million and go up to $13.9 million for a six-bedroom, six-bath 6,000-square-foot palace. Sources tell us the Extell Development building is popular with athletic types because it has its own sports club and spa including an indoor pool, golf simulator, basketball and squash courts. Alex Rodriguez had toured the building before choosing to buy at the nearby Rushmore.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/movin_up_west_TUgSG8dihVhyGHMvwodySK#ixzz23Tyzgmvy

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Al Thornton for small forward; the team can try him out for a year and see how high his upside can be. This guy has scoring ability and athleticism. Could be a great fit for what we want to do. Second, is Danny Granger’s stock going to be down this year. I think he could be acquired if Granger does not start off like an All-Star in the first half of the season.

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Also, if you read between the lines, Ferry states that we will be weaker without JJ and that we are working towards a higher goal:

“It was a hard deal for us. But, at the end, we had a good making-the-playoff run, but we hadn’t had a good playoff run, if that makes sense. And the goal is to have a good playoff run. That was going to be hard to sustain, with how we were set up.”

“Well, we have good players now to be competitive now. And we’re in a position to be opportunistic going forward. We’re not only going down one path. The map that we’re standing on now has a lot of different roads that we can take. Whereas a month ago there really was only one road.”

At the same time, he also clearly states that JJ was not worth his contract when he said that Brooklyn got a “good player”:

“… I think it was a win-win for both teams. They got a good player who’d help keep around Deron Williams…”

“… I think people may have taken for granted the success they’ve had here. And Joe was a big part of that. But also, I think, we recognized that to get better some changes had to happen. The best we could do was status quo. And that wasn’t good enough for anybody.”

Ferry knows that we will be worse THIS season due to the loss of JJ, but this is merely ONE STAGE of a middle to long term plan.

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VALVA74-I’m not saying we won’t miss certain attributes that both JJ and Marvin brought to the table, especially defensively. What I’m saying is all teams and players have weakness and strengths. The more successful teams and players are the ones that are able to successfully utilize their strengths to compensate for or minimize their weaknesses. Losing JJ and Marvins particular type of DEF doesn’t mean we can’t successfully compensate.

We’ll just have to play more team DEF, like the Bulls did, especially after acquiring CBoozer, who was definitely a DEF liability prior to becoming a Bull. We’ll have to compensate by utilizing the speed, quickness, and athleticism in our backcourt to provide more help DEF, as well as score more pts. It’s all up to LDrew and his staff to make it work.

The only documented DEF liability currently on our roster is KKorver, and he’s not likely to start. We don’t know what we have defensively in Scott or Jenkins at this point. The fact that they did’t play a lot of man to man DEF in college doesn’t mean they can’t adjust and become adequate at it. The trick is to use your stellar OFF to compensate for you less than stellar DEF. We see it happen in the NBA all of the time.

We’ve see it with JKidd, who’s now a DEF liability at his age, SNash, who’s always been a DEF liability, JTerry, who’s barely adequate, JCrawford, who doesn’t even try, AStaudemire, CAnthony, KLove, etc.

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Sautee

August 13th, 2012
9:35 pm

Why are you bringing to my attention that Al horford that Al horford is not a good center or power forward. I already know that. I see that many others know that and are voicing displease. If you want me to be that spokesman or point person for the many people who feel that Al is part of the problem not part of the solution, well, as you know, I can handle that. No problem.

You smoke really strong pot. Its jarring your thinking…Kinda like what Sonny Liston said about being hit hard, ” it shakes your awareness brain cells out of their cups and you become disoriented.”

There is no such thing as 1/4th a rebound or 3/4 a rebound. 1/2 a rebound is the same as saying youve got half and some one else has half, or I half way had a rebound,,maybe Josh got the first half of the rebound and Al horford got the second half or better yet Al got half a rebound but lost the other half..

Has anyone seen the other half of Al’s rebound?

SMFH

Amare spent more time at center than power forward and called Al out by name, center to center.

Now, while you believe in rounding up point to pimp Al’s career stats I dont. I believe. Al’s career number is 12 pts

I have never seen .25, .50, .75 show up on a score board. And If you detox long enough you will admit that.

As much as you like to p imp Al’s stats by keynoting his one (1) statistically average year and ignoring all the other years of performance, I again think you need to detox. All players have up and down years and you have to judge them on a body of work not 1 week, month or 1 season. Hell I can take Jon Koncaks best 5 minutes of his career multiply that across 48 minute and P imp his stats too.

And since you like to compare Al to Josh to help Al’s stature, Al’s very best year, of 15pts would only match Josh’s career average. 15pts. Which is ironic because Al had a full college career (12pts there too) and came to the NBA as the most polished and NBA player in the draft, yet his very best is equal to the every day numbers of Josh who, out of high school, has been a better source of offense and defense than Al.

Josh is just now getting to the NBA ready level that Al was at five years ago.

Enough of comparing Al and Josh, two different players two different levels, two different games.

In fact its really a wasted subject to talk about Al. He is not the kind of guy you want to build a team around . Al at his best is a role player or or back up splitting time at center/pf

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And what about the time Al hoford show up at a practice and Ivan Johnson called him out and punked him?

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2012/04/13/breaking-news-ivan-johnson-sent-home/

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“There is no such thing as 1/4th a rebound or 3/4 a rebound. 1/2 a rebound is the same as saying youve got half and some one else has half, or I half way had a rebound,,maybe Josh got the first half of the rebound and Al horford got the second half or better yet Al got half a rebound but lost the other half.. ” – T-s

Now you’re just being silly. If Josh gets 21 rebounds over two games, what was his “average” in rebounds? 10.5

Did he “get” 10.5 rebounds per game, or did he “average” 10.5 rebounds? I only explain this to you because you want to appear to be dense, but you are really just being silly.

And there was no need to “pimp” Al’s stats for 2010-11 because he was in the top 5 of most statistical categories. That’s a fact. You are dealing with your emotions, and are giving opinion, which is your right to do. I was stating facts, which is my right to do.

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AJ

Danny Ferry is and will be planting those seeds
from himself through the coaching staff, players,
ticket takers, training staff, chef, ball boys,
dancing girls, and Harry the the Hawk.

Regardless of whomever will be here;
one week, one year, or one decade.

A ” Winning Culture ” must be:
thorough, complete, through & through, top to bottom,
and it was begun the very second he was hired.

A ” Winning Culture ” is not just an idea,
`tis a way of life, for every individual who touches the organization.

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BIG IVAN FOR PRESIDENT

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Sautee.. why even argue with these guys? You show how he has improved EVERY season – but still wants to pull out average 12 ppg. Hey – go be a Buck fan and cheer for ???? Al is a top 5 center in the league and one of the top in the East. Maybe all these Al haters want Joel Anthony!

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“Did I miss someone saying that Al was the guy to build this team around?”

Yes.

http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2010/12/how-much-better-is-dwight-howard-than.html

I agree completely with your assessment of him. Until about a year ago, though, there was a significant group of basketball writers and bloggers — maybe even the majority — that tried to paint him as a franchise cornerstone.

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In related news, apparently it is “Joe Johnson week” over at the netsarescorching blog, for whatever it’s worth.

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Najeh, I’m not sure that passing to the open man is a metric for measuring basketball IQ. Josh’s ability to draw double teams in the low post is only compromised by Josh’s willingness to play in the low-post.

I still consider Horford as a franchise cornerstone. If cornerstone is defined as one of 3-4 core players that is the foundation of a top team. Yep, I’d gladly maintain him in that category. 15/10/3 assists on 12 FGAs and playing as his team’s 3rd option?

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Some seem to be equating Al Horford to Amir Johnson. SMDH.

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Nothing Hawks related will happen until September 11th. I think we will try to trade Morrow and Petro or a combination to get a guy or two to help out our bench. I think Dorrell Wright may be a guy we can get as I dont see him getting much minutes in Philly with Turner Richardson and Young and Thad Young. They might take Petro and a 2nd for him. Also if we can get another decent big man for just in case situations like foul trouble or injury for Morow that’d be clutch. I just hate to see us drafting Jenkins and having all these guards and us not getting to see what he can do.
Ive been trying to think of someone to compare Jenkins to and I think maybe a healthy comparison is Ben Gordon(with the bulls as his ceiling) and a smarter jordan crawford(wont shoot as soon as open) bottom. as of now i still see
Teague/Lou Will/Josh/AL/ZaZa starting lineup. some people dont want ZaZa starting but if we start that frontcourt we will be a great defensive/rebounding team and those two areas are crucial for a small speedy team to be succesful like us.

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“I still consider Horford as a franchise cornerstone. If cornerstone is defined as one of 3-4 core players that is the foundation of a top team. ”

I was mainly taking issue with this phrase in the Hoopinion writeup:

Al Horford (season-to-date) can be reasonably compared to Howard, that Horford is plenty good enough to be the two-way focus of his team’s attack

I agree that Al is plenty good enough to be the 3rd option on a championship contender. I do not think he is good enough to be the focus of a team’s offensive or defensive attack. Until a year ago or so, if that wasn’t a consensus, it was at least a fairly prevalent opinion.

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yea, leave al alone and hate on this man.

Smith assisted on 84 of Johnson’s field goals in 2011-12, more than any two of Johnson’s teammates and more than all Atlanta point guards combined. Smith found Johnson often in a variety of ways: hitting Johnson posting up or over the top at the rim from the high post, lurking in a corner after drawing a double-team in the low post, spinning and opening up the corner pass, high-screening and handing the ball off, and more.

Just in case, for the next time someone tries to downplay Josh’s ability to draw double teams and pass to the open guy, or his basketball IQ in general.

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Its only reasonable that we trade Al for more cap space, and a 1st round pick since we can get the same production out of zaza and ivan for 7 million less.

Did we miss Al last year? NO NO NO.

The team played better with out Al than with him. It just makes sense to cut Al’s salary through trade and pick up a 1st rounder.

Thoughts any one?

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T-s, I don’t think Ferry thinks of Al the way you do. But I guess we’ll see.

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You know what a smart employee does? He learns what his boss values the most and then he tries to deliver that.

Both Al and Josh increased their FGAs from 12+ feet after attending LD’s “offensive mini-camp” in the summer of 2010. My guess is they quickly learned that if the first guy open was supposed to shoot, that they better take that jump shot or Joe, Jamal or Bibby would never give them the ball back.

It has always mystified me why an upgrade in the head coach position would greatly help Josh (in the opinion of many) but not help others as well.

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pgs,

I don’t think the people of Atlanta will love or appreciate Josh any more, or any less at PF or SF.

What you really want to do is support your big lineup premise. If that doesn’t stick, then it’s the fans not appreciating Josh? Huh?

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THE LAKERS ARE SUPPOSDELY TALIKNG ABOUT TRYINGTO AQUIRE JOSH SMITH TO PLAY ALONG SIDE HOWARD…

GASOL FOR SMITH!

LAKERS IN 5 IF THEY PULL THAT OFF! THE LAKERS WOULD GET ANOTHER STEAL?

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Sautee Josh is the best player on this team and the player the hawks are building around. This is Josh’s team now.

Ferry has tried to trade Al twice since he’s been here and most of us applaud him for it. Dont get it twisted. Al is an average to good player. You just dont build around mediocrity to try and get to the next level. We tried 3 time to trade Al so far this summer and no one was interested. So you figure it out.

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/…/al-horford-for-danny-granger-who-say...

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Boris Diaw

Someone brought him up a day or two ago and why Woody tried to make him a PG. Well, you have to know what the roster composition was back then to understand the situation. The Hawks started that season with the GREAT Kenny Anderson as their starting PG. By that time, Kenny was about 57. In the opening game of the season, he had twice as many TOs as assists. It didn’t get much better from that first game. The other PG option was Ty Lue. Meanwhile, Diaw was the starting SG (an above average ball handler with above average passing skills). But unlike every other SG in the NBA, Diaw refused to shoot the freaking ball. So with an ineffective Kenny Anderson, a shot-happy Lue and a “I won’t shoot” Diaw, Woody tried to at least run the offense through Diaw.

D’Antoni played Diaw as a “point SF” before injuries to the Suns’ big men forced him to play Diaw at center. From that position, he was able to out-quick the bigs and became highly functional.

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“Dont get it twisted. Al is an average to good player. You just dont build around mediocrity to try and get to the next level.” – T-s

Actually, T-s, YOU are the one who has it twisted if you think that I want to solely “build around” Al. I think like Jhan, that he is solid and gives good production relative to his pay. I have never thought he was “the one” who would take us to a Championship. Sorry to disabuse you of this notion.

The most I’ve ever said toward that idea is two years ago when I stated that both Josh and Al needed to be a bigger part of the offense. That’s a far cry from saying that I want Al to be “the one” who leads us.

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“funny how when Josh enthusiasts talk the can live off Josh’s performances but when Al loud few supporter talk they need to link Al to Josh to raise the value of Al’s name.” – T-s

Al was in the top 5 in seven out of nine statistical categories for centers in his last full season, more than any other center in the league. He was 6th in another.

Do you see anything about Josh in that statement?

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The Lakers actually would have upgraded brilliantly by swapping Bynum and Gasol for D12 and Smoove…

Wow. The Lakers just maybe the team to beat if Josh heads West….

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“Put the koolaid down. There is nothing exceptional here. He just an ordinary guy. Who when hes not injured can give you decent minutes.”

What kool-aid? The one that says he’s a solid player who is productive at the center position against bigger players? That’s the only Horford kool-aid I would drink.

Why do you keep throwing up straw men? I never said Al was “exceptional” now, did I?

“So can Zaza.”

Yes, Zaza can give you minutes at the center position, and he rose to the occasion while Al was out, but his production in those minutes was lower than Horfords’ from the previous year.

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eu fcking reka we agree!

When we talk about offensive skill sets Al is significantly better than Zaza. But on the defensive end Zaza is better than Al,….watch what I say…. because Zaza denies the lane,alter shots and causes misses and intimidates far better than Al.

so hypothetically, If Al scores 12-14 points but gives up 20 points at the rim we have a net loss of – 6
so hypothetically if Zaza scores 8 pts but only allows 12 points at the rim we have a net loss of – 4

So while Al is a better score than Zaza he is not as good a defender and the 2 wash out. Thats why we did not miss Al last year. Zaza and Ivan were able to offset Al’s 12pt career average with better defense and thereby negated any effect the loss of Al would have meant.

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2010-11 Season Rankings For Centers In Order (Top 5)

2007-2008?
2008-2009?
2009-2010?
2011-2012?

Heres my point based on your dumb stats.

D12 / Bargnani / BLopez / AJefferson / Horford –

Ok you say Blopez and Bargnani each had a better year in 2010-2011 offensively, than Al Horford.

what were their rankings this year?

Not top 30 material !!

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/position/centers

So if you go by 1 year like you are (its really stupid) you don’t get a real gauge for talent or consistency of performance. Like I said you have to look at a full body of work and not just a one year stat pimping moment.

Like I said Al is just an average ordinary guy who averages 12pts for his career. Who is a weak defender. @ protecting the rim # 17 amongst centers.

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T-s,

Two yes or no questions:

Does a blocked shot alter that shot? Does a blocked shot cause a miss?

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2011 Season – Double Doubles:
1 -Dwight Howard – 66
2 – Al Jefferson -37
3 – Al Horford – 36

Pretty good gauge of how a center is performing. Top 3 seems a little above average to me.

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yea, 10pts 10 rebounds double double. Go Al! Go!

And take Sautee with you.!

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OK, T-s, serious question.

Will you please name for me the centers in the league that you consider “above average”?

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SAUTEE-Never argue with a fool, for he will only drag you down to his level of ignorance and stupidity and defeat you with his vast experience. You’re engaged with an absolute fool who believes anything he says or believes should somehow be accepted as fact.

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“Ok you say Blopez and Bargnani each had a better year in 2010-2011 offensively, than Al Horford.”

“what were their rankings this year?”

“Not top 30 material !! ” – T-s

LOL at this. Lopez was injured and only played in 5 games. In those 5 games, he averaged 19.2 ppg, which was tied for 4th among centers.

Bargnani was second in scoring among centers this past season.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/qualified/false/position/centers

I’m not sure exactly what you looked up, but 2nd, and 4th is certainly among the Top 30.

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Friends and Country men, its time to wrap our minds around positive minded BS!

Now where do we begin this morning? Excuse me while I grab a cup of Hot Java.

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