Atlanta Hawks: Camp report
Notes gathered before nearly crashing my car while taking a call on Louis Williams deal and then trying to tweet the news on my freakin’ phone. . . .
- Pape Sy is back, baby! That’s exciting enough on its own but Sy got me really hyped by showing up looking ripped. Seriously, dude is muscled-up. “I tried to work on my body to get stronger on the court,” he said. “Now I feel great.”
- Larry Drew on Sy: “He’s been in that weight room. He’s gotten stronger. When he goes to the basket, you can see when he takes contact he can still get his shot off. That’s a pro move to take contact and get your shot off.”
- As mentioned a few weeks ago, the Hawks finally have abandoned their plan to try to make Sy a point guard. It was pretty obvious after his first couple of summer games in 2010 that his NBA future is not at the point. “I feel good as a two guard,” Sy said. “I am trying to get to the hoop and I work on my shot. I feel better now. Playing the two may be more easier for me.”
- The Hawks have a hole on their roster on the wing and Sy certainly has the size to play there. He’s always had some potential as a wing defender. Drew said Sy could play some small forward in smaller lineups.
- “Pape has really gotten better,” Drew said. “I’ve always been intrigued by his size, his ability to get to the basket, his strength. He knows how to draw fouls when he goes to the cup. His shot has improved. Defensively he’s aggressive. I think this summer league will be really good for him to see where he measures up at this level.”
- John Jenkins signed his rookie deal. He’ll make about $2.5 million guaranteed over the next two years with Atlanta holding options for two additional seasons.
- So Jenkins is, like, rich. “It won’t change me at all,” he said. “My parents won’t let it happen and the people around me won’t let it happen. It’s also not who I am. I’m a very, very cheap person. I might get a nice car, not much else. I’m very blessed just to be in the NBA.”
- There’s no big secret about the summer focus for Jenkins. “Everyone knows he’s capable of making shots, everybody knows when he’s on the floor you can’t leave him,” Drew said. “But defensively he’s got to get better and he knows that. He’s already said, ‘Coach, just tell me what you need for me to do and I’ll be studying film, I’ll be studying tape, I want to get better in that area.’ He’s a great kid. I’m happy that he’s part of our organization.”
- Jenkins is wearing No. 12. He initially asked for No. 21 but, well, you know. Jenkins then asked for No. 23, his college number, but Lou Hudson already wore it very well for the Hawks.
- Mike Scott already knows you want him to be a small forward: “I’ve been asked that question so many times. I see myself as a four. I’m comfortable as a four but doing three stuff. If I have a mismatch, a bigger guy on me I’m going around or a smaller guy on me I’m posting up. In order for me to transition to three I have to be able to guard a three. That’s something I’m still working on.”
- At Virginia, Scott developed an effective face-up game. Good idea since it’s a big reason he will get a shot in the league. “I always had a pretty good touch,” he said. “Once I realized I wasn’t going to be able to dunk on everybody, I started working on other aspects of my game. Watching a lot of Kevin Love, Chris Bosh, Kevin Garnett—big guys that can shoot from that pick-and-pop range.”
- Scott has pretty good length but isn’t very physically imposing. Drew: “Undersized, but I do think he has the strength to play that [four] position. He’s a phenomenal pick-and-pop shooter so he’s going to have to play to his strengths and get better at his weaknesses. A big part of playing that four is understanding what you can get away with defensively and what you can’t. But I do think he has the strength to hold his own down there.”
- Drew added that Scott “is not an Ivan Johnson as far as strength is concerned” but who is among us lesser beings?
- Keith “Kito” Benson is back, too. Word is he looked much the same during today’s scrimmage–timid and getting knocked around–but Benson says he’s gotten stronger and plans to have an “aggressive mindset” this time around.
- Benson: “I think I have a lot better chance this year because of summer league and spending more time with the coaches. I think I have a good chance to show what I can do and show my skills for a longer period of time. Last year it was about five days.”
- Lester Conner will coach the summer league entry.
- Danny Ferry came out for a moment while reporters were inside the practice facility but didn’t address us media types.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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509 comments Add your comment
sam'l
July 11th, 2012
3:17 pm
blah, blah, blah……..
Josh is cool, but he never has been consistent…..Dwight looks very unstable as well. Cant really trust either one.
you don’t play to lose….want the Hawks competitive with players who want to win and are consistent in their effort. Don’t want partyers who play HALF the games…….
or muscle men who push people around and injure lesser mortals with their elbows.
dig it!
Remidtown
July 11th, 2012
3:18 pm
Astro Joe,
I don’t think one team’s willingness to take Joe is proof that his contract wasn’t an albatross. The bottom line was that Joe’s contract limited the Hawks ability to do anything and needed to be gone. I wouldn’t say that Lou is better than Joe by any means, but Lou at his contract price is far better value than Joe at his contract price. In that respect, Lou is far better for this team than Joe is.
I liked Joe but not at $18-20 mil per season or whatever the final number was. I’d rather have a lesser Lou at $5 mil or so than Joe at his number.
KevinM
July 11th, 2012
3:23 pm
OB, Dwight has averaged 36mpg for his career. Last year, he averaged 38.
I am including Zaza, because we don’t need Zaza playing 12-14 mpg. He has proven to be more valuable than that, and he is a good pawn in getting D12 to the ATL.
Al / Zaza / 3 #1s including next year’s Houston protected / 2 2nds / Harris
If Danny does that and we keep Teague, we are on our way to playing with anyone if D12 is used properly. If D12 and Josh could both improve to 70-80% on FTs, we will be able to compete with anyone.
KevinM
July 11th, 2012
3:24 pm
Go get Daniel Orton to back up D12 if need be. We need a guy to develop in case D12 needs time off. Orton would be cheap off the bench.
northcyde
July 11th, 2012
3:25 pm
O’Brien . . if they want Zaza, you give them Zaza too. Zaza Pachulia should never be a dealbreaker in any trade. Let Josh play center part of the time with the 2nd unit, if we trade Zaza. He can handle that for 12 minutes a night against a reserve big man.
northcyde
July 11th, 2012
3:26 pm
Or just let Ivan or Petro get those minutes.
A healthy Howard > Horford + Zaza
Melvin
July 11th, 2012
3:26 pm
“I’m good with moving Joe’s contract off the team. I;m glad we have Lou Williams. But that’s where I get off the bus.” – Astro
You didn’t include the Marvin trade before you got off the bus.
Big Ray
July 11th, 2012
3:28 pm
Ive seen this show before – Serious question -are we cool with Al just developing a jump shot while his rebounding and post game stays the same.From the looks of things we will have plenty of gunners. Who gives us points in the post.
No, it’s no okay, and it’s NOT cool.
Either Al Horford develops a “real” back to the basket game, or he’ll devolve, because teams like Chicago will shut him down every time. Even teams with less defensive prowess than Chicago will manage to do it. Al has to get better in this department…period. I think he can. I’d hate to see him turn into a Drew Gooden….
Also, if he doesn’t get better, then in future hindsight, we’ll be talking about how last/this year was his highest trade value, and we’ll regret having traded him. That said, I expect him to get better…
KevinM
July 11th, 2012
3:29 pm
Zaza’s 4 years average minutes prior to Al going down:
15.2 2007
19.1 2008
14.0 2009
15.7 2010
I don’t think Zaza should or will be dropping back down to those kinds of minutes. He is a valuable asset at 5.2M.
Buddy Grizzard
July 11th, 2012
3:30 pm
“Please help me understand what being younger has to do with it.”
Not losing a step like Jamal or losing three steps mid contract like Joe. Any more questions?
Big Ray
July 11th, 2012
3:35 pm
Less interested in what Ferry should do to get Dwight in the ATL.
FAR MORE interested in what he plans to do if he can’t get Dwight in the ATL….which is exactly what I think will happen. I think Orlando and Brooklyn are gonna keep haggling until they get the deal done.
Buddy Grizzard
July 11th, 2012
3:36 pm
““Games 5, 6, and 7 against Boston this year, Lou shot 10 of 32, 0 for 8 from 3.””
Cool now post Jamal’s numbers in Game 5 & 6 against Chicago. Let’s compare. Don’t forget the +/- !
Big Ray
July 11th, 2012
3:38 pm
Folks still arguing about Jamal and Lou Williams. Give me a break…I’ll take the younger guy. Screw the SMOY stats, screw the other stats. Both are hired gunners, give me the 24-25 year old, not the 30-something yr old guy. Unless there’s a big difference in money (and there isn’t) then why go back to Jamal?
I’m with Northcyde though….would we really go into the season with Lou/Teague/Harris? While some may see possibilities and situational combinations, all I see is LD f-ing stuff up…
O'Brien
July 11th, 2012
3:39 pm
From hoopshype;
Adrian Wojnarowski: Brooklyn’s fully guaranteed the first 4 years, $58M of a max deal offer for Brook Lopez, sources tell Y! Sides still discussing 5th year..
Ra’mon,
I thought about you when I saw Lopez’ contract numbers lol. He might get 5 years, $70 – $80 mil.
Big Ray,
If you’re Orlando, do you really want to pay Lopez 4 years, $58 mil?
Big Ray
July 11th, 2012
3:44 pm
…..and then you see stuff like this ……
Adrian Wojnarowski: Brooklyn’s fully guaranteed the first 4 years, $58M of a max deal offer for Brook Lopez, sources tell Y! Sides still discussing 5th year. Twitter
Oh somebody please bring it to an end….
O'Brien
July 11th, 2012
3:45 pm
KevinM,
My only concern is because D12 is coming off back surgery, so I would want to limit his minutes somewhat.
Northcyde,
Zaza would not be a deal breaker for me, but I would prefer to hang on to him. If Orlando insists (which they probably would), so be it.
Al, Teague, Zaza, Jenkins, and 2 first round picks for Dwight…or Al, Zaza, Jenkins, Devin Harris and 2 first round picks for Dwight and J-Rich.
Big Ray
July 11th, 2012
3:45 pm
O’Brien,
Hell no.
The Real cp
July 11th, 2012
3:46 pm
Ill be glad when this Dwight thing is done smh.
Stevenson has been in the league for what 10+ plus years now? Are we really using one playoff defensive performance as evidence that he is a good pickup? ehhh. You guys can have that. I would still take Damien over him.
Buddy Grizzard
July 11th, 2012
3:46 pm
“would we really go into the season with Lou/Teague/Harris? While some may see possibilities and situational combinations, all I see is LD f-ing stuff up…”
I don’t really imagine Harris being our point guard of the future. He seems like more of an expiring contract to be available for use in a trade. Who knows maybe he outlasts Teague on this roster, but we don’t control his rights past this year. Teague will be a restricted free agent and the Hawks will be able to retain him even if the team goes over the salary cap next year.
Ryan
July 11th, 2012
3:47 pm
per Twitter
@AlexKennedyNBA: The Magic informed Dwight Howard that they are suspending trade talks, according to source. Orlando will now focus on their coaching search.
LOL!
Buddy Grizzard
July 11th, 2012
3:48 pm
I definitely see Drew f-ing the whole situation up but I like that it creates competition for minutes. Somebody is going to have to step up and play defense.
Slimjr
July 11th, 2012
3:50 pm
vava74 got jokes!Hahahahah
44
Buddy Grizzard
July 11th, 2012
3:50 pm
So, Nets no longer a possible destination for Dwight. How do you like the Hawks now?
Slimjr
July 11th, 2012
3:51 pm
Ryan
July 11th, 2012
3:47 pm
per Twitter
“@AlexKennedyNBA: The Magic informed Dwight Howard that they are suspending trade talks, according to source. Orlando will now focus on their coaching search.”
What the blank does that mean?
i_am_soulstar
July 11th, 2012
3:53 pm
Saw the video from Day 1 of rookie camp on NBA.com. Pape Sy has bulked up ALOT.
Au revoir to frailty?
Let’s see if he makes it through the entire summer league w/ no injury issues.
Buddy Grizzard
July 11th, 2012
3:53 pm
Game over, Crooklyn.
Buddy Grizzard
July 11th, 2012
3:54 pm
“What the blank does that mean?”
It means that the Nets will sign Lopez and Hump and keep them on the team. Sign and trade no longer possible. Like I wrote in April, strong possibility that Dwight will NEVER play for the Nets. That just became reality.
Astro Joe
July 11th, 2012
3:59 pm
Melvin, I get off the bus with making comparisons between Lou and Joe. I’m all in for the Devin/Marvin trade. I’ve liked everything Ferry has done so far. I just can’t get with the “demonize Joe and his contract” stuff.
The ASG knew the cap situation when they offered Joe the max deal. The NBA didn’t change the rules on them, Joe’s contract didn’t balloon unexpectedly, the agent didn’t withhold the final contractual terms. If the ASG couldn’t work with Joe’s contract, then why did they bring it to his agent? IMO, because they were planning to sell the team and that fell through because they tried to sell it to a broke pizza man and Joe’s contract becomes an albatross. The ASG made a bad decision that left both the team and Joe forced to operate under the weight of that contract. Now Joe goes to Brooklyn where the owner has essentially lifted the weight of that contract off Joe’s shoulders.
Remidtown, I completely understand the “value for their contract” discussion. but when comparing players, it is not wise to simply compare scoring averages. A player’s value is relative to the team that employs that player. The Thunder and the perfect GM Sam Presti felt like giving Kenrdick Perkins a $12M/year contract was worth it to them because he would bring veteran experience, toughness and a championship pedigree. All of that to a young team that was trying to make a deep playoff run. if you ignore the timing of that signing, you would conclude that it is an awful contract… now that he is unable to stay on the floor against the Heat and the Thunder appear to be mainstays deep in the playoffs.
Joe’s contract is gone, that is good. Lou is here, that is good.
Ryan
July 11th, 2012
4:01 pm
@Slimjr I don’t think the Magic even know what that means. That organization is embarrassing themselves IMO.
Runner-
July 11th, 2012
4:01 pm
Ok, tell me whats wrong with this deal, both for the Hawks and the Magic
Howard, Richardson, Duhon
Horford, JT, D. Harris (expiring purposes), 2 1st round picks
Best deal for Magic, but only do it if Howard agrees to resign.
Imagine this lineup:
L. Williams
J. Jenkins / Morrow
Richardson / Stevenson
J. Smith / I. Johnson
Howard / Zaza
A starting SG still needed, but with our big ATL 3 of Lou, Smoove, and D12, what’s not to love?
Mike
July 11th, 2012
4:04 pm
So now its a two man race between Atlanta and Houston, maybe this is what DF was waiting for, yall think?
Grandad
July 11th, 2012
4:04 pm
Yawl say pairing Dwight with Josh would be the
Best Frontline in the League !
What intrigues me is:
If Josh is the ” is all / be all ” defender he`s made out to be;
[on this blog] , then why aren`t his techniques and stratagems
ever discussed in the media ?
Why; because he just uses his legs and his length.
I recently read an article about Luc Richard Mbah a Moute.
He went into great detail describing his methods
of guarding Derrick Rose, D.Wade, K.Durant, & LBJ.
He defends the better player on each opposing team
whether it be the [1] through the [4].
* (and some occasions the Center)
Josh is equipped to do as much or more than “a Moute”.
There are others besides LRMaM;
such as Battier, Tony Allen, Iguodala,
who take a cerebral approach to defense.
My point:
many folks on this blog call for Josh
to improve this or that ‘`offensively`’ to be an all-star.
I say, that were he to take a similar approach to becoming
a defender that could lock down four or five positions,
along with studying his craft;
then he would actually become the defender that myth has created.
mountain_jim
July 11th, 2012
4:08 pm
From ESPN
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8156575/2012-nba-free-agency-brooklyn-nets-end-pursuit-dwight-howard-source-says
the Nets offered four future first-round picks, center Brook Lopez and power forward Kris Humphries in sign-and-trade deals, the source said. The offer was rejected by the Magic.
Melvin
July 11th, 2012
4:09 pm
The Magic need to trade Howard ASAP and move on with their rebuilding. I would be surprise to see a team take on all those bad contracts that the former GM Otis Smith created/acquired.If Howard doesn’t get traded this summer, then I think he will sit out to rehab until the trade deadline. Can’t believe the Magic are willing to drag this out even further…
i_am_soulstar
July 11th, 2012
4:11 pm
Matt Barnes would be a nice addition fit for this squad.
Grandad
July 11th, 2012
4:12 pm
Before it starts:
if someone points out a negative characteristic,
or bears criticism against:
let`s say – Josh;
then said person is a hater !
-Yet-
If all manner of ill will and name callin` is spewed forth
against, let`s say – Al;
`tis well and good.
Also, were someone to defend, let`s say – Al;
that person becomes an:
” apologist ” … !
Melvin
July 11th, 2012
4:14 pm
Is the Joe trade finalize yet?
Wolvie
July 11th, 2012
4:15 pm
I think it may have been mentioned elsewhere (can’t keep up with the blog traffic the past few days), but it makes sense to trade for Howard regardless if he is willing to sign an extension immediately. His presence will reenergize Hawks fans even if it is for only a year and will make us look a lot more palatable to other players.
Next year, Hawks will be able to offer Howard $25M more than anyone else. You really have to want to play elsewhere to leave that money on the table. Worst case, we have to do a sign and trade (which we could do for Bynum – also sign and trade). If not, we have cap space to see what is out there and if none of that pans out, we move to full out rebuilding time. Fortune favors the bold.
Also, we are a still a middling team as currently constructed. We are not getting a superstar with our draft picks. Did not like it when the Hawks were a 13 win team, but like it even less knowing that we will make the playoffs, lose, and then do it again the next year. At least, rebuiklding provides some glimmer of hope especially with a competent GM.
Just Joe
July 11th, 2012
4:16 pm
Horford can still improve his offensive game by increasing the range on his jumper (I don’t think he’ll ever be a low post threat). If defenders are closing out on your shot, speed up your release, elevate (or fade away with) your release, or move further away from the basket.
The age-old debate in my mind is still:
1) Al at the 5 operating from the high post, Josh in the low post on offense. Can Josh & Al defend the bigger PF’s & C’s on the other end?
-OR-
2) Al at the 4 operating from the high post, (Center TBD) in the low post. Can Josh still impact the game on offense from the wing, and defend the wing on the other end?
Astro Joe
July 11th, 2012
4:23 pm
Melvin is getting nervous.
O'Brien
July 11th, 2012
4:23 pm
AJ,
Kendrick Perkins contract from OKC was ~$9 mil per, but I get your point.
Melvin,
I forgot that Orlando didn’t even have a coach yet. They have to get the D12 stuff out the way asap (imo). I think their GM will eventually take one of the offers (whatever that may be), because they are not in a position of power either.
PureEvil
July 11th, 2012
4:25 pm
Why would the Magic want Bynum? He’s not going to sign in Orlando!
O'Brien
July 11th, 2012
4:26 pm
From hoopshype;
Dwight Howard will NOT get his wish. He will not play next season in Brooklyn. Sources close to the trade talks between the Magic and several NBA teams told SheridanHoops.com that the Nets dropped out of the bidding this afternoon, deciding to retain Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries and MarShon Brooks — the three key pieces they were willing to include (along with multiple first-round picks) in their trade offer for Orlando’s disgruntled superstar..
That’s still a pretty good team (imo), and should be competing for a top 4 spot.
PG:Deron
SG: JJ
SF: Wallace
PF: Humphries
C: Lopez
Bench: MarShon Brooks, and a stretch 4 from overseas, plus whatever pieces they add.
decriz
July 11th, 2012
4:28 pm
sign Yancy Gates from the Detroit summer league team
Astro Joe
July 11th, 2012
4:28 pm
I’ll take a healthy version of the Horford that played against the Celtics in May and I won’t have any concerns for the next 3-4 years.
mountain_jim
July 11th, 2012
4:29 pm
I knew this was next
Jarrod Rudolph: Magic GM Rob Hennigan denies that he’s informed Howard that trade talks have been suspended. Twitter
Brooklyn Nets, Orlando Magic, Trade, Dwight Howard, Rob Hennigan | share
David Baumann: #Magic GM Rob Hennigan says any report that says “talks are off” regarding potential Dwight Howard trade is false. Twitter
Brooklyn Nets, Orlando Magic, Trade, Dwight Howard, Rob Hennigan | share
Brian Windhorst: Magic GM Hennigan on reports that Howard trade talks have been suspended: “That’s not accurate.” Twitter
Melvin
July 11th, 2012
4:30 pm
No way Howard plays beyond next season (if that) in Orlando. I think he will reject to any sign and trade deal (unless it’s to the Nets) next summer if he’s still a member of the Magic just out of spike. They better trade him before the trade deadline or he will truly walk and leave that 5th yr option on the table.
Slimjr
July 11th, 2012
4:30 pm
Thanks Buddy!
Perspective/Disclaimer
Al’s game has been dissected not his manhood, persons or Rep…
We talking baskeball people
Melvin
July 11th, 2012
4:30 pm
5th yr option = bird rights.
Ra'mon
July 11th, 2012
4:31 pm
O’B, the problem with that line up is you can count on Lopez missing at least 20 games.