Atlanta Hawks: The next step
No, there is nothing new to report on the Hawks and Dwight Howard. As far as I know, nothing has changed since what I wrote two days ago. If I hear anything different, I promise I won’t keep it to myself.
With that out of the way, on to some housekeeping . . . .
Once the trades become official on July 11, and after the Hawks compete an expected buy out of Jordan Farmar, they will have nine players under contract. Draft picks John Jenkins and Mike Scott will make it 11 once they sign their deals. Ivan Johnson will make it 12 if he signs his qualifying offer.
Here are the cap salaries for those 12 players (in millions):
Josh Smith: $13.2
Al Horford: $12.0
Devin Harris: $8.5
Zaza Pachulia: $5.2
Anthony Morrow: $4.0
Johan Petro: $3.5
Jeff Teague: $2.4
Jordan Farmar: $1.5*
John Jenkins: $1.2
Ivan Johnson: $.96+
DeShawn Stevenson: $.852.33^
Jordan Williams: $.76
Mike Scott: $.40
Total: $50.4755.95
*Amount of buyout.
^Cap charge for minimum-salaried veteran with three or more seasons.
(Update: Luke Adams of HoopsRumors.com notes that Chad Ford reports Stevenson’s first-year salary as $2.33 million, not the minimum. And reader Tyler Cromey emailed to point out I left Morrow off the salary list.)
+Amount of qualifying offer extended by Hawks.
According to Larry Coon, the salary-cap level is expected to remain at about $58 million for 2012-13. But that $7.5 2 million or so in cap space is theoretical for the Hawks.
They still would have about $18 million in cap holds because of their free agents. Those holds won’t be released until those players sign a new contract or the Hawks renounce them. Even if the Hawks clear all of those cap holds, they would take a roster charge of $400,000 for having less than 12 players on the roster following Farmar’s buyout.
All of that is a long way of getting to this bottom line: The Hawks can clear up to a maximum of roughly $7.0 1.5 million in cap space. They can then sign free agents using that space and/or the “room” mid-level exception that allows a two-year contract starting at $2.5 million. So that means, theoretically, the Hawks could spend up to about $9.5 8 million on anywhere from two (to get to the roster minimum of 13) to four players (to carry the maximum 15).
(Update: Because their cap space would be less than the amount of their exceptions, the Hawks would be limited to using all or part of the $5 million non-taxpayer mid-level exception; all or part of the $1.96 bi-annual exception; and minimum-salary exceptions to sign from two [to get to the roster minimum of 13] to four [to carry the maximum 15] players.)
(If any of my calculations appear off, blog people, shoot me an email: mcunningham at ajc.com.)
After the Hawks made trades that set them up to have maximum flexibility to make moves in the long term, they still believe they can remain competitive in the short term. It’s not hard to think they can do so with the remaining core of Smith, Horford, Teague, Pachulia plus new additions Morrow and Jenkins.
Once the trades are completed and Farmar is bought out, Atlanta’s depth chart will look something like this (just for example, so please save your outrage if you disagree):
PG: Jeff Teague/Devin Harris
SG: Anthony Morrow/John Jenkins/Devin Harris/DeShawn Stevenson
SF: Josh Smith/Anthony Morrow/DeShawn Stevenson
PF: Josh Smith/Ivan Johnson/Jordan Williams/Mike Scott
C: Al Horford/Zaza Pachulia/Johan Petro
The Hawks could use a starting lineup with Zaza at center and Al and Josh shifting over–Larry Drew said he could envision that alignment even before the trades–but the Hawks clearly need a true wing. They could probably use another center, too, to guard against needing to use Petro or Johnson there for major minutes if Al or Zaza goes down.
I’d expect the Hawks will get serious about free agents once the market shakes out. They’ve expressed interest in Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis but obviously those players will see what the market may bear.
The Celtics already have offered Allen $12 million over two years and he’s set to pick from that offer, the Clippers and the Heat. Lewis says he’s seeking to play for a championship contender.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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583 comments Add your comment
Mose Malone
July 5th, 2012
10:55 pm
Somebody should tell Al that its not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog.
That dog wont hunt.
Ive seen 6′9′ centers who have had more of a post impact than Al .
According to Wiki:
The center, colloquially known as the five or the post, is one of the standard positions in a regulation basketball game and is commonly abbreviated “C”. The center is normally the tallest player on the team, and often has a great deal of strength and body mass as well. A typical NBA center is between 6′10″ (2.08 m) and 7′3″ (2.21 m).
So Al is typical Center size, there is no excuse.
Big Dawg
July 5th, 2012
10:59 pm
how about keep Horford and have him be the small forward, with Josh as pf, D-12 as center. Al does have a nice jumpshot.
Rip Tide
July 5th, 2012
11:00 pm
I guess Sautee got to go smoke some mo weed.
Melvin
July 5th, 2012
11:00 pm
Rod from CP,
The Hawks needed to get rid of Joe salary more than anything else. It was hindering their ability to build a better roster going forward. Besides, if the Nets got over on the Hawks buy taking the riches contract in the league off their hands, then what do you call the Hawks sending Marvin to the Jazz. A robbery….
Mike is Back
July 5th, 2012
11:01 pm
Forgive me if wait to July 11th to celebrate…BUT THERE’S A NEW BOY IN TOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO DANNY GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Melvin
July 5th, 2012
11:09 pm
With the Mavs striking out in Free Agency on every level, maybe they should try trading Dirk for Horford….LOL
O'Brien
July 5th, 2012
11:24 pm
3 years, $9 mil for Jason Kidd? That’s great value in my opinion. I think the Knicks will match Lin’s offer (4 years, $29 mil). If that happens, the question becomes…will Woody name Lin the starter, or will it be kidd?
Najeh Davenpoop
July 5th, 2012
11:25 pm
The Magic have reportedly offered Dwight to the Lakers for Andrew Bynum.
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2012/07/report-magic-have-sent-dwight-howard-trade-offer-to-lakers-for-andrew-bynum/
Geno
July 5th, 2012
11:25 pm
If dewight comes here… I gaurantee no fan would cheer for thr other team…. Mike vick for instance, when he was in atlanta he owned the city…
Rev in Tampa
July 5th, 2012
11:41 pm
Nejeh, I won’t allow myself to believe it until twitter starts blowing up. I just don’t see it happening.
Ken Strickland
July 5th, 2012
11:42 pm
http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AoQDjCsIdq1RHebHR7iZkNaO7Ox_;_ylu=X3oDMTFycHRwNmxkBG1pdANBUlRJQ0xFIEFydGljbGUgQm9keQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFBcnRpY2xlQm9keUFzc2VtYmx5;_ylg=X3oDMTJ2ZHM4cTF0BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNmRiN2EwNGUtYjM3My0zNGNhLWE1ZTgtMjBmOTMwMmQ1NzJhBHBzdGNhdANob21lfGV4cGVydHMEcHQDc3RvcnlwYWdl;_ylv=0/SIG=119an0vju/EXP=1342755336/**http%3A//yhoo.it/KUzwpG
Maybe this article will put into perspective the situation that exists with DHoward and where he wants to go, and why. This, along with other unknown reasons, is why he has yet to declare any desire to play for the Hawks. If he has LA on his list of teams he likes, then he’s definitely not coming here, considering Orlando definitely prefers Bynum over Horford.
tjhook
July 5th, 2012
11:47 pm
James Anderson, formerly of the Spurs, is someone who may be worth bringing into the program. He’s a small forward who had his time taken by Green and Kawhi Leonard, but was a first round pick and is considered a good shooter and athletic. Would probrably accept the minimum. I also would like to see Radmanovic and McGrady come back. LD may have probrably chased both of those guys away with his reluctance to play the two veterans.
tjhook
July 5th, 2012
11:50 pm
here is a write-up on James Anderson when he was with the Spurs.
http://projectspurs.com/2011-articles/june/room-for-improvement-james-anderson.html
O'Brien
July 5th, 2012
11:51 pm
2 years, $10mil for Brandon Roy? Can his body hold up for 2 years?
tjhook
July 6th, 2012
12:00 am
Does anybody wonder if Ferry would have considered holding Joe for at least half a season if we had done the Devin Harris deal first? Harris, if he still has his quickness, will be a nice surprise for the team because he can shoot well and penetrate – getting his own shot constantly. That type of threat will make a big difference for Josh Smith and Horford. The team will need another ballhandler/slasher on the wing.
NORRIS CHUCK
July 6th, 2012
12:42 am
Brandon Roy and Batum to Minny to go with Rubio and Love? I see them getting a 6th seed next season….folks, you all heard it here first! LOL!
Ra'mon
July 6th, 2012
12:44 am
O’B, I think Minny is so happy that a free agent actually chose to come there finally (majority of their impact players came through draft or trade), they over shot on the actual value of Roy by twice as much.
I’m still on the side of going for Howard this season. If you trade for D12, you will have the team name spoken more time in this one season, than all of the last ten seasons combined. And the atmosphere at the arena will change almost over night. It will surprise Dwight and Josh in a positive way. Of course I would rather Orlando take Harris instead of Teague. But I know that will not happen.
Guys, if the Hawks add D12, what if they don’t go after CP3? What if they offer nice deal to Paul George instead? With George, Josh, and Dwight, you have some durable basketball players, much more than CP3 has been in his career. Also Gallinari should be coming up on an extension pretty soon. If you think about having Gallinari and George for a little more than what it costs just to have CP3, that’s a wonderful value. PG – George – Gallinari – Josh – D12.
NORRIS CHUCK
July 6th, 2012
12:46 am
David Aldridge: Hawks and Knicks are also interested in Lewis, 32, who played in 28 games for the Wizards last season. Twitter
So the lineup is as follows:
Teague/Harris/Pargo
Harris/Morrow/Jenkins
Rashard Lewis/TMac/Stevenson
Josh/Ivan/Scott
Al/Zaza/Petro
Ra'mon
July 6th, 2012
12:50 am
Nevermind, Gallinari has 4 years left at $9.4 per.
random
July 6th, 2012
1:11 am
Why do people actually think horford is 6″10 the guy is the same height as josh. If you ever looked at a photo of joe,josh,and al you would see how much of a height difference those 3 had they are all like 6″8.
Ra'mon
July 6th, 2012
1:19 am
Random, Horford is still bigger than Hakeem. And not far from Mourning.
random
July 6th, 2012
1:26 am
Ra’mon, Hakeem was 7″0 i thought, and alonzo was like 6″10.
Ra'mon
July 6th, 2012
1:49 am
No, Hakeem had a 7′0 wingspan, but he was 6′9 without shoes (6′10, 250 lbs with shoes). That’s why David Robinson used to seem so taller than him. And Otis Thorpe was taller than him as well. Hakeem had strong legs, but was still the same size or smaller than Horford.
Sautee
July 6th, 2012
2:36 am
“Random, Horford is still bigger than Hakeem. And not far from Mourning” – Ramon
“No, Hakeem had a 7′0 wingspan, but he was 6′9 without shoes (6′10, 250 lbs with shoes).” – Ramon
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/al_horford/
Ramon. is the league lying about Horford’s size, or are you confused?
How is Horford, listed at 6′10″ 250 bigger than Olajuwon, listed as 6′ 10” 250?
Sautee
July 6th, 2012
2:57 am
“Somebody should tell Al that its not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog.
That dog wont hunt.
Ive seen 6′9′ centers who have had more of a post impact than Al .
According to Wiki:
The center, colloquially known as the five or the post, is one of the standard positions in a regulation basketball game and is commonly abbreviated “C”. The center is normally the tallest player on the team, and often has a great deal of strength and body mass as well. A typical NBA center is between 6′10″ (2.08 m) and 7′3″ (2.21 m).
So Al is typical Center size, there is no excuse.”
—————————————————————————————–
Al Horford – All-Nba 2011 His last full season. No excuse.
BigChuck
July 6th, 2012
3:48 am
The comments on here are all stupid if you thing this team is going to win anything. If we do not get D12
BigChuck
July 6th, 2012
3:51 am
The comments on here are all stupid if you thing this team is going to win anything. If we do not get D12 we are done. There is no 8 or 7th spot Mia-NY-Pacers-Brooklyn-Boston-Philly-Bulls-Magic or Bucks Once they double Josh and make him shoot jumpers its a wrap.
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Just Joe
July 6th, 2012
6:29 am
There was a rumor that circulated yesterday, and was eventually shot down, of Andre Iguodala & Nikola Vucevic to Toronto for Jose Calderon & DeMar DeRozan.
We’ve heard since the end of the season that Philly wants to move Iguodala. When Danny Ferry described what he wanted his team to play like, he said we would defend, share the ball, and knock down shots. That sounds a lot like Andre Iguodala to me.
Vucevic is a legit 7 footer that can knock down the 3. He came real close in his rookie year to hitting the normal backup center marks of 5 pts, 5 rebs, and 1 block in 15 minutes per game, but he remains 3rd string in Philly with the re-signing of Spencer Hawes & Lavoy Allen.
If those two are available, do you think Atlanta would be interested, and what could we offer in trade?
Philly’s roster is Holiday, Turner, Iggy, Harkless, Young, Brand, Hawes, Vucevic, and Allen, with Elton Brand’s big contract expiring this year. Holiday is a restricted free agent next summer and he’s already saying he wants a max deal. Philly wants to bring back Lou Williams for their bench. Looks like they need a backup PG and another shooter for sure.
Is Devin Harris, Anthony Morrow, DeShawn Stevenson, Jordan Wiiliams, and Houston’s pick about right?
Just Joe
July 6th, 2012
7:08 am
Few more Summer League additions.
PG Jordan Taylor out of Wisconsin.
SF/PF Eric Griffin from Campbell.
SG Brendan Lavender from Arizona.
Taylor could easily grab the 3rd string PG role. Tough, strong kid. Hit 37% of his 3’s taking almost 5 a game. Just not that big, and not that explosive. 4.1 assists to 1.6 turnovers per game.
drmaryb.(""_*).
July 6th, 2012
7:25 am
A Shooting Star
At SG, no one I’ve heard mention can play a lick of defense, I believe we will miss Joe’s perimeter D more than some gave him credit for and, his size was a huge problem for them all. Penetration will be a huge issue next season. Joseph was certainly a prototype at the 2G spot.
That is where everyone stepping up to play team defense will be a major factor. Coaches will truly have to do more coaching, selling and less talking for sure. (Thibbs?)
dap01
July 6th, 2012
7:54 am
We need a defensive SG to add to the depth at that position. We also need an offensive sf. Even without going after the big time acquisitions this year, this team can be good.
But I do like the ability to shoot for the big time players.
faye
July 6th, 2012
7:58 am
Please be quiet about money!! All in all, Atlanta will not be a good basketball team unless someone step into the role to help since they have trade too many good player and expect to see someone else better than other. I don’t and dislike when we are talk about money to make player just want more than what the Hawks are offer so just let the ball game taken care by each and every one of those player one thing don’t blame it on the coach staff if they lose too many game. Everyone need to sit down and drink some coffee and figure out what’s exactly wrong and how to make it work
Cedric
July 6th, 2012
8:24 am
looks like we are planning to tank this year. It will be a long season.
Just Joe
July 6th, 2012
8:37 am
Cedric….we’ll know we’re “tanking” for sure if we trade Josh Smith to Houston for spare parts & draft picks (not rumored, just speculating). Right now, Hawks could go either way.
THE IMMORTAL...I MUS WRITE
July 6th, 2012
8:54 am
Al Horford is 6′9….I met him and ZAZA at my previous job, and ZAZA is atleast 2 inches taller. Lets face it Al is a finesse player that wants to shoot jumpers. WTH was he during the playoffs of 2011….He was our worst starter in that Orlando series.
Wes Unseld played center at 6′7, You have to have the kiss a__ mentality to play in the paint as an undersized Center…..Al doesnt have that dog in him -hence the constant crying about plying PF. heres an idea, Practice post moves instead of shooting Jumpers all summer.
If he is moved for the right peice im all for it-Ive always said I prefer josh over jumpshot AL.
CP3 is staying in Clipperland -thats why hes recruiting players etc. Dwight playing in ATL seems like a pipe dream as well, To get him we would lose Teague Zaza Al and Picks …I dont want him here unless he signs an long term deal with us next summer. I think Teague is gonna shock sum people next yr.
I would grab the kis Illyasova from Milwaukee, His game would fit in nicely with what we currently have ……
If marvin got 8 mill then Batuum is worth atleast 12…jus sayn. I guess we know why J Lin didnt come back last season 4 yrs 30 mill wow…. Ill bet he negotiated his own deal..That Harvard education is serving him well.
THE IMMORTAL...I MUS WRITE
July 6th, 2012
8:55 am
Kick A__ Mentality…. Kiss lol
vava74
July 6th, 2012
8:56 am
If Howard manages to get his wish and get traded to the Nets, our best move is to trade Josh too, since under those circumstances, he will not re-sign with us.
So, in that event, we need to use him to re-tool and move forward.
If that happens, we will be in full tanking and kaboom mode looking for expiring contracts and picks to start over around Teague and Horford.
SecondSage
July 6th, 2012
9:02 am
We shouldn’t worry about this year. Let’s let it play out and see where we are. It’s clear Ferry has a long term plan, let him execute.
With that said, I have a controversial proposal. SIGN GREG ODEN!!!! He produces when he plays, he’s cheap right now, it will revive him and the Hawks.
The Oregon water causes lots of injuries, the same will happen to Hibbert. Sign Greg Oden for 800K.
@Only1MrGreen on Twitter
July 6th, 2012
9:04 am
I agree w/ Mose Malone, Al Horford needs to man up and play big down low. The Heat’s weakness were their Big’s, and yet they managed to beat teams w/ better Big’s.
@Only1MrGreen on Twitter
July 6th, 2012
9:06 am
We need to scoop up Rashard Lewis asap.
Astro Joe
July 6th, 2012
9:28 am
Seems like we’re in a “Dwight or Bust” mode. If Dwight doesn’t come soon, we’re done. I’ve been saying for the past few days that this is about NEXT summer. There will always be very good players made available because of cap issues with their teams. This season, we watched Joe get traded because of his team’s cap situation. Lakers landed Nash because of the trade exception from Odom (essentially cap space). Chasing RFAs is less risky because of the 3 day waiting period… which is why we’ve seen Hibbert, Gordon & Batum offered deals this summer. Eventually, an RFA will shake loose.
If Derrick Rose only plays the last 25 games of the season, every team that finished ahead of us last season will do so again. And teams like the Nets, Knicks, 76ers and Celtics will likely leap-frog us. No need to compete for the 8th playoff spot and miss out on the ping-pong ball drama. Dust off Jarvis Hayes or wait until Martell Webster is cut loose and let’s get these 82 games done with.
I recall a photo shopped picture of the back of an NBA jersey with the name “Cap Space” on it. Well, after trading away the horrific contract of our perennial All-Star, that is what we’re left with. A few guys name Moe who will give way to Cap Space next July. 1 bad year… just hold your nose and swallow.
vava74
July 6th, 2012
9:29 am
I would also take a flyer on Oden, but I would offer him more than the Vet’s minimum, I would offer him a 2 year bi-annual with incentives:
if he was injured: vet’s minimum; if stayed on the court, 2 million.
I read an article on him and he had a severe drinking problem shortly after he came into the league since his cousin went to live with him and they had a wild life together.
Probably this played a factor.
I remember that doc mentioned that he his a gimp: one of his legs is shorter by almost 2 inches… now that he is in rehab he might as well do a leg extension surgery on his shorter leg and correct that issue…
vava74
July 6th, 2012
9:37 am
AJ,
This is what everyone clamoured for, so now we have to bite the bullet. Now that it is done, I think we need to go ALL IN.
If we fail, yes, its “TANK TOWN”.
A quality coach would have been cheaper and more effective in the short term.
Maybe even on Josh’s intentions since I still believe that he is “coachable”… by a good coach.
Interestingly, Josh’s public happiness about JJ and Marvin being shipped out could be interpreted in several ways:
1- Without JJ they must give me #1 status, so I don’t freaking care about moving from ATL since here I will be THE MAN and will get my +20 touches;
2- Without JJ and Marvin, Danny finally moved the cap logjam and are giving us a chance to get my man Howard to play here with me;
3- I can’t stand JJ and his droopy and sleepy demeanour, so I am happy simply because he is gone and I don’t need to look at a guy who is earning 20 million and looks as passionate about playing basketball as I am at doing accounting.
SteveW
July 6th, 2012
9:39 am
Well the Nets owner Prokhorev made 26.3 million dollars yesterday according to the Forbes realtime Billionaire tracker – almost enough to pay for JJ and Wallace this season! (Hoopshype)
Minny is offering Derrick Williams and Martell Webster for Batum if Portland match’s their offer for him.
Marvin may have gotten 8 mill – but was he worth 8 mill? Batum is not worth 45 mill over 4 years, with incentives to make it 50 mill
Kwame for the Bi-Annual and Delfino for part of the Mid Level? Balances out our team nicely to me.
I think Kwame gets more than the Bi Annual however – functional C’s are difficult to come by nowadays.
steven a smith
July 6th, 2012
9:41 am
I am not sure Jenkins will ever be a starter. Having said that, i like some more Confident veterans as my “2″ and “3″ players.
PG DevinHarris/Jeff Teague/Janero Pargo
SG Steven Jackson/Deshawn Stevenson/John Jenkins/Morrow
SF Josh Smith/Mickael Pietrus/Rashard Lewis
PF Al Horford/Ivan Johnson/Mike Scott
C Johan Petro/Zsa Zsa/
SteveW
July 6th, 2012
9:43 am
AJ – Naw, I’ve got backup plans if we don’t get Dwight. Getting Iggy or Gay if their available would be good options.
And I go all in to get Al Jefferson next summer if we don’t get Dwight – a Frontcourt of Jefferson, Horford, Smoove, and a backcourt of Teague (if he is re-signed, and teams don’t get crazy on us with poison pills etc.) is a stout team – and yes, would be built to give the Heat fits.
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
9:45 am
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/07/05/another-day-another-dwight-update/#?ls=iref:nbahpt1
If we’re getting in on any of the Dwightmare drama, this is probably how – as a third team. If at all. Might wanna just hang this one up, folks. Don’t know if we can absorb a “bad contract”. We just got rid of two of them.
SteveW
July 6th, 2012
9:46 am
Josh and Al have on court chemistry at times. People fail to see this. I think they will beast it this season, both of them – especially if Al’s fully recovered.
I’m hoping Keith Benson makes the team – that kids got talent, especially if he’s working hard this off season – he’s a legit 6-10 and a great shot blocker – should be up to 230-35 by now. Very athletic.
Astro Joe
July 6th, 2012
9:46 am
vava, one more, I can be an All-Star because I will get as many touches as I like… because Teague is in my back pocket and Al is a “team player” and won’t stand in my way.
The funny thing is that Josh will need to put up some crazy numbers to be an All-Star from a below average team. He’ll still be competing against the usual suspects. And with the Knicks possibly having Lin & Kidd, I like both Melo and Amare (if healthy) making the squad. From there, he will only need to compete with Lebron, Bosh, Granger, Deng and Pierce.