Atlanta Hawks: The next step
No, there is nothing new to report on the Hawks and Dwight Howard. As far as I know, nothing has changed since what I wrote two days ago. If I hear anything different, I promise I won’t keep it to myself.
With that out of the way, on to some housekeeping . . . .
Once the trades become official on July 11, and after the Hawks compete an expected buy out of Jordan Farmar, they will have nine players under contract. Draft picks John Jenkins and Mike Scott will make it 11 once they sign their deals. Ivan Johnson will make it 12 if he signs his qualifying offer.
Here are the cap salaries for those 12 players (in millions):
Josh Smith: $13.2
Al Horford: $12.0
Devin Harris: $8.5
Zaza Pachulia: $5.2
Anthony Morrow: $4.0
Johan Petro: $3.5
Jeff Teague: $2.4
Jordan Farmar: $1.5*
John Jenkins: $1.2
Ivan Johnson: $.96+
DeShawn Stevenson: $.852.33^
Jordan Williams: $.76
Mike Scott: $.40
Total: $50.4755.95
*Amount of buyout.
^Cap charge for minimum-salaried veteran with three or more seasons.
(Update: Luke Adams of HoopsRumors.com notes that Chad Ford reports Stevenson’s first-year salary as $2.33 million, not the minimum. And reader Tyler Cromey emailed to point out I left Morrow off the salary list.)
+Amount of qualifying offer extended by Hawks.
According to Larry Coon, the salary-cap level is expected to remain at about $58 million for 2012-13. But that $7.5 2 million or so in cap space is theoretical for the Hawks.
They still would have about $18 million in cap holds because of their free agents. Those holds won’t be released until those players sign a new contract or the Hawks renounce them. Even if the Hawks clear all of those cap holds, they would take a roster charge of $400,000 for having less than 12 players on the roster following Farmar’s buyout.
All of that is a long way of getting to this bottom line: The Hawks can clear up to a maximum of roughly $7.0 1.5 million in cap space. They can then sign free agents using that space and/or the “room” mid-level exception that allows a two-year contract starting at $2.5 million. So that means, theoretically, the Hawks could spend up to about $9.5 8 million on anywhere from two (to get to the roster minimum of 13) to four players (to carry the maximum 15).
(Update: Because their cap space would be less than the amount of their exceptions, the Hawks would be limited to using all or part of the $5 million non-taxpayer mid-level exception; all or part of the $1.96 bi-annual exception; and minimum-salary exceptions to sign from two [to get to the roster minimum of 13] to four [to carry the maximum 15] players.)
(If any of my calculations appear off, blog people, shoot me an email: mcunningham at ajc.com.)
After the Hawks made trades that set them up to have maximum flexibility to make moves in the long term, they still believe they can remain competitive in the short term. It’s not hard to think they can do so with the remaining core of Smith, Horford, Teague, Pachulia plus new additions Morrow and Jenkins.
Once the trades are completed and Farmar is bought out, Atlanta’s depth chart will look something like this (just for example, so please save your outrage if you disagree):
PG: Jeff Teague/Devin Harris
SG: Anthony Morrow/John Jenkins/Devin Harris/DeShawn Stevenson
SF: Josh Smith/Anthony Morrow/DeShawn Stevenson
PF: Josh Smith/Ivan Johnson/Jordan Williams/Mike Scott
C: Al Horford/Zaza Pachulia/Johan Petro
The Hawks could use a starting lineup with Zaza at center and Al and Josh shifting over–Larry Drew said he could envision that alignment even before the trades–but the Hawks clearly need a true wing. They could probably use another center, too, to guard against needing to use Petro or Johnson there for major minutes if Al or Zaza goes down.
I’d expect the Hawks will get serious about free agents once the market shakes out. They’ve expressed interest in Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis but obviously those players will see what the market may bear.
The Celtics already have offered Allen $12 million over two years and he’s set to pick from that offer, the Clippers and the Heat. Lewis says he’s seeking to play for a championship contender.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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583 comments Add your comment
Slimjr
July 6th, 2012
2:57 pm
Ask yourself this question can the great All whatever go glass?
If yes then he should have against that Giant Roy Hibbert. May have saved his season?
moboman
July 6th, 2012
2:57 pm
sounds great DOG, but what did you give to get D12??
BIG DOG
July 6th, 2012
2:59 pm
High light Factory will sell every game.
With the most exciting team in the NBA.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Rod from College Park
July 6th, 2012
3:01 pm
What makes guys in the NBA great or so called All Stars most of the time is the ability they have offensively to not be contained by one guy. Once you start commanding double teams in the NBA, you have become a great player. Probably one of the reasons that Joe continues to be picked to go to the All Star game. The guys and coaches that actually have played the game realize how talented the guy is to be able to score with double teams coming at him game in and game out. That’s another reason why stats don’t tell everything. Joe Johnson’s 45% FG was much more difficult than Marvin Williams 43%FG. Stats don’t tell you that, only your eyes will.
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
3:02 pm
Jamal and Joe were doubled in that series. Al Horford has never seen a double team. The Chicago and Orlando coaches both stated that the top priority against the Hawks was shutting down Jamal Crawford and Joe Johnson. A Horford was an All Star. No All star in the league should be shut down in one on one coverage by Brandon Bass or Ryan Anderson. All star Al was. I wish some of you guys actually played the sport at a high level, so you could really understand how hard it is to score with double teams coming at you all game. That’s one reason I never really bash Joe. I hate his demeanor, and his attitude, but Joe has probably seen more double teams than any other player in the NBA over the last couple of years. The Hawks have had nobody else on their team to really take the offensive load off of Joe over the past couple of years except Jamal and Josh last year. Joe will be a very good player in NJ, with a treu point guard who can score also.
1) True, Joe has probably face a million and a half double teams. Why? Because he’s been the only credible star on a team that, despite numerous opportunities, has missed out on having another star player, or a higher level star player.
2) It amazes me just how much you give discredit to fans and players alike for the things that management, coaching, and ownership do. Marvin didn’t pick himself at #2 in 2005. An idiot with an afro did. Horford played his first 2-3 years in this league like a beast unleashed, with fewer shot attempts than Joe, Josh, and even Marvin (who turned down more attempts than most by passing the ball off). Under Woody, he wasn’t asked to score. He was asked to rebound and defend, which he did. The whole time, we ran an ISO offense that worked all off of Joe. Yeah, you talk about double teams…when the offensive design calls for you to have the ball all the damn time, you’re going to see an unfair level of double teams, more so than usual. But do you blame the coach? Nope, lots more fun to just blame Marvin. That, and it doesn’t require a lot of thought.
3) Of course Joe and Jamal got doubled against Chicago. They were two ball-handlers who could shoot the ball and create their own shots. And they had carte blanche to do so. Al is not a ball-handler who can create his own shot. His ROLE was to shoot jumpers on the pick-and-pop. You don’t double guys who are supposed to be shooting set shots on pick-and-roll or pick-and-pop shots. That’s why Chicago is such a good defensive team. Because they know who to double, and they know who to throw single coverage at. They knew our play designs and how to counter them. They also knew to lay off of Josh and let him foolishly chuck up jumpers. They also knew what our team would do when forced out of our strengths, and that we would likely force our ownselves out of those strengths by going rogue half the time. Why didn’t they double Josh? You’d think they would have because he truly could have just KILLED that team. I’ll tell you why – because you can’t leave Jamal and Joe open for long, and because Josh is GUARANTEED to play outside of his strengths by leading the break with the ball in his hands, and by shooting too early and too often from 18 feet and further out. Those two vices only worked in his favor for ONE game. The rest of the time, Chicago left him in single coverage….just like Al.
So you recognize Chicago’s defensive prowess when you want to defend Jamal or even Joe. But you didn’t seem to understand how they beat us overall. Or how we could have beaten them. Oddly enough, it was Teague who was ripping them a new one. A little more help from any ONE starter would have changed things. But Chicago knew just what to do against us. From the pg all the way to the center position.
Your statement about “all stars should not be shut down in single coverage” is inane. Al was never named an all-star because of his scoring, and you know it. But you’re right about his need to develop a low post game. Thing is, if he did, would it have mattered? The team won’t listen to the dingbat head coach, and even if they did, his schemes seem less than effective.
KevinM
July 6th, 2012
3:03 pm
“Rod from College Park
July 6th, 2012
2:50 pm
“NO…I’m not comparing Horford to Duncan. There IS no such comparison.”
Agreed. End of story. Duncan is deadly in the post, Al is not. Duncan is a great shotblocker, and intimidator, Al is not.”
Rod, when BK and Woody decided to draft Horford, I always said he was going to have to be our Duncan. While he hasn’t turned out to be Duncan in many ways, he is still important to the success of this team.
Now Duncan came in and had David Robinson to show him the way and combine that with Pop, it meant an incredible foundation.
Who really has Al had to lean on here? Same for Joe and Josh….even though they had each other, none of them are elite enough to take the reins.
I would like to keep Josh or Al, but not both. I would rather go back in the draft and have the opportunity to find elite again. The reason for that is we aren’t willing to bring in management like Kupchak or Ainge who play to win now.
We are always seemingly building for failure. We are not, as they say, ALL IN!
hawks_4_life
July 6th, 2012
3:06 pm
Sacrifice this season for good draft position. Put the cap space towards D12/CP3 and go from there.
Adios Corps
July 6th, 2012
3:10 pm
TJ Ford. that’s the guy that got Al’s dog.
Al thought he’d kilt the little feller and hasn’t been the same since.
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
3:10 pm
Agreed. End of story. Duncan is deadly in the post, Al is not. Duncan is a great shotblocker, and intimidator, Al is not. Concept is in no way the same. Duncan allows you to play a goon or a defensive center next to him because he is a true offensive threat. Al is not. Al never demands a double, Duncan does
Again, wrong concept. What I’m talking about is if you have this player isn’t at his best playing at center, but is better off as a PF, then you play him as such and put a goon at center.
It would have been too easy for the Spurs to plug Duncan in at center. He’s big enough. But it wasn’t the smartest idea.
We have Horford. He’s smaller (at least shorter) and lighter than Duncan. If Josh goes, we have to find someone to play the center because Horford will be the best PF we have (and he’d be better than average). It would not be the smartest idea to keep him at center and bring in somebody else to play PF unless said player is a star player at the position. As long as Josh stays, Horford remains at center because Josh is better suited to play the 4 than the 3, and Al is the best center we have.
THAT is what I’m talking about. Folks are thinking we are going to trade one or the other, and they could be right. At the very least, one or the other is likely not to be here any longer than next summer. So if Dwight isn’t in the conversation, then a goon at center IS.
hmmm
July 6th, 2012
3:11 pm
I have no idea what this trade means for the Hawks…..I do know there are only “x” amount of players on final rosters, so there will be a lot of moving trucks at that time.
hmmm
July 6th, 2012
3:12 pm
so how many of the 5 for 1 deal will actually still be here by november?
THE IMMORTAL...I MUS WRITE
July 6th, 2012
3:14 pm
Astro Joe -Stop drinking officer friendly’s Kool Aid…..Shooting/Scoring the ball is very important but having an all around game and versatility is just as important…..Its the difference between a guy like Monte Ellis (scorer) and Rondo or CP3 (versatility)
Im a Hawks fan -I want all our guys to play well but if people cant see josh is a superior player to ol jumpshot then they dont know basketball. Put on any playoff game since they have been here- turn down the sound and tell me which player stands out.
What has #15 done but improve his jumper…. He is maybe slightly better than Brandon Bass and is equal to David Lee IMO….Im not that impressed.
hmmm
July 6th, 2012
3:14 pm
was this the equivalent of getting a bunch of minor league baseball prospects and dropping a heavy salary?
hmmm
July 6th, 2012
3:14 pm
bunch of no names
Slimjr
July 6th, 2012
3:15 pm
Hey, who was that defender in the middle of the paint who opened up an escort service to the rim?
Seen this B4? Hmmmmmm Many times..LOL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=digHHWtFXuE
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
3:15 pm
The Al star Al supporters never bring that up. If he does not have so many turnovers and can sink two free throws we might be in the second round. They will however continue to bring up the fact that Josh shot a bad jumpshot at the end of the game, but leave out the fact that the great midrange shooter Al Horford can’t sinl two free throws with our season on the line.
Really? So what you’re saying is that we lost to the Bulls because Horford missed free throws and had turnovers in that game. Based on your continual comments about understanding of the game based on what level you played it….I conclude that this statement is an indicator that you got cut from your high school team….
Implosion
July 6th, 2012
3:17 pm
starting over? Hawks tryouts to your right —->….keep moving please.
Implosion
July 6th, 2012
3:19 pm
Lets trade Josh Smith for six 12th man bench players!
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
3:20 pm
What makes guys in the NBA great or so called All Stars most of the time is the ability they have offensively to not be contained by one guy. Once you start commanding double teams in the NBA, you have become a great player. Probably one of the reasons that Joe continues to be picked to go to the All Star game. The guys and coaches that actually have played the game realize how talented the guy is to be able to score with double teams coming at him game in and game out.
You’re right about Joe. Now kindly explain why the coaches of the NBA kept voting Horford to the all-star team, or even 3rd all-nba status. After all, if they recognize Joe, then they should have an explanation for everybody else they voted in. I’m sure they and you, being basketball insight intellectual equals, have discussed this many times, yes?
I’ve been waiting for the naysayers and haters to explain this one for a while, and since you played at a higher level than anybody else around here (we must assume, must we not?), then your explanation would clearly carry much more weight than that of anybody else. We’ll call it a next-level educated opinion.
Jim
July 6th, 2012
3:20 pm
Had to celebrate the JJ and Marvin trade with a hookah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARczJkBwYGE
Ray
July 6th, 2012
3:20 pm
@ Big Ray
Co-sign both your posts.
I still say we are better off with both then having either one traded away.
Both have strengths and weakness to build around. Until Uncle Drew goes and we get a tough minded quality coach in here we won’t ever see neither be used to their full extents.
It’s a good sign though that Joe is gone not so much Marvin(seeing as he didn’t get the touches anyway).
This season upcoming again with or without Drew we get to see how much better Josh and Al really are when Joe is not in the fold any longer.
Bring back Hubie
July 6th, 2012
3:21 pm
and his leiutenant Fratello.
They’ll kick some ass and make men of these babies!
BIG DOG
July 6th, 2012
3:22 pm
Slimjr – Thanks for posting that, Hinrich is a bum and very overrated.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
hawks_4_life
July 6th, 2012
3:23 pm
IN FERRY I TRUST
THE IMMORTAL...I MUS WRITE
July 6th, 2012
3:26 pm
Rod from College Park
July 6th, 2012
12:52 pm
“Serious question/ Is Al horford that much better than Brandon Bass -David Lee- Ivan?”
No. Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson basically shut him down in the playoffs in the Orlando series that we won. Bass and Anderson are both great mid range shooters like Horford. Horford does rebound the ball better than them, but that’s about it.
Rod from CP…… Thank you man sumbody else saw what I saw. Al played terrible in that series -add JJ and JC1 as well. Josh was the one player that went hard and didnt give a funk who the opposition was. I remember Bass giving horford the bussiness and Horford went away with his tail between his legs. I dont have time right now but im going to find the blog right after we beat orlando….People were calling for Horfords head .
The next series against the Bulls JOSH SMITH was the one constant…Say what u will about that yungn -he shows up -now granted all players hv bad games but to have 2 bad series in a row is ehhhh…JJ JC #15
My auntie May 2011….awks vs Bulls H” I like that number 5 he is all over the place”
My Auntie May 2011 -Hawks vs Orlando ” Why cant your team get the ball, Why are they letting #12 (Howard) push them around and score- our big guys dont look like they want to play”
This woman knows nothing about hoops but she could see the difference in the two. why cant the so called blog experts
pointguardslim
July 6th, 2012
3:28 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIepUUANijo&feature=player_embedded
Wonder if this has been LD’s plan all along. no more Billy Knight 6′8 and under.
Big Boy Ball with Smith at SF will take Iguodala and Deng’s all star spots
SteveW
July 6th, 2012
3:31 pm
Detroit Management would have to be very drunk to trade Greg Monroe for Josh Smith. No offense to Josh, but Monroe is 5 years younger, and is growing into a beast C, in a League devoid of C’s.
As a matter of fact, good chance Monroe goes to the All Star game this year to back up Dwight.
And guys, don’t forget about Al or Josh’s passing – both are great passers.
Rod – Money on JJ. Folks really didn’t get to see how good he was, because he was doubled basically every game. I’d hear Coach’s talk pregame, and they would say, 1st order of business is to double Joe Johnson.
JJ is a very good player. 6x All Star
And Bret Lagree at Hoopinion did a horrible hit piece on him, saying he was average, or just above average – dissed his D etc.
LaGree I usually like, but he blew that call.
But JJ is no SuperStar – step down from DWade’s class etc.
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
3:31 pm
Im a Hawks fan -I want all our guys to play well but if people cant see josh is a superior player to ol jumpshot then they dont know basketball. Put on any playoff game since they have been here- turn down the sound and tell me which player stands out.
That’s strange…I don’t recall anybody saying that Horford is more talented than Josh Smith. What I DO see people saying is that Al has accumulated the accolades, while Josh has not. FACTS can be hard to SWALLOW, no matter how big your open mouth is.
FACT – if Josh had better coaching and a better approach to the game, the accolade category would be reversed – Al would not have made a single all-star team, Josh would have had those slots. But AL earned his stuff in his first 3 years (not terribly impressed beyond that) and Josh didn’t commit to that level of play until the second half of last season.
Now…would he have done so with a healthy Horford all season? Or did his opportunity to step up with no other talent around help?
You don’t like the flavor of the koolaid, don’t drink it.
doc
July 6th, 2012
3:32 pm
rod:
“Jamal and Joe were doubled in that series.”
rod, sorry that is way too easy a comeback. what i saw and others will probably agree is jj and jamal foolishly penetrated into easily laid traps, not double teams as there are not enough players in a five man game to double two players. or, they were simply confounded by the zones and defenses that thibs threw at them as well as the other hawks. only teague really looked in his comfort zone because they gave him less attention. they fronted al differently and had a man ready to jump his jump taking away the pick and pop.
“smoove” was left alone, as most smart coaches do, wanting him to shoot. which btw gets back to how they were able to take the games of jamal, jj and AL away from them with the traps you call doubles. they didnt have to guard “smoove” as long as his alter ego josh stayed out away from the basket giving the extra player inside to clog and make it look like a double.
SteveW
July 6th, 2012
3:35 pm
I’m sticking by my assessment that if the Hawks keep both Josh and Al – both will have monster seasons. If healthy of course.
And if Josh or LD is not in Teague’s grill too much, Teague has a solid year also. Teague’s a ball player.
THE IMMORTAL...I MUS WRITE
July 6th, 2012
3:36 pm
My god Man….Really??? Josh/Teague for Al “I have no lift” Jefferson. Now way in Haites man. Where do yall come up with this stuff. Al jefferson is Al horford with less athleticism and a far better post game. NO THANX.
BIG DOG stop throwing trades out there …They stink… Glad you’re not the GM or we would be the BOBCATS…..Let it go homie.
Astro Joe -Y U mad homie -Rod got his opinios just like you do- correction nobody has more opinions than u do lol…. We can all just agree to disagree about Josh and #15 ….Dont know why u hate Josh so much but you should let it go before u bust a gasket….
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
3:38 pm
The next series against the Bulls JOSH SMITH was the one constant…Say what u will about that yungn -he shows up -now granted all players hv bad games but to have 2 bad series in a row is ehhhh…JJ JC #15
Disagree. Teague played better than anybody.
My Auntie May 2011 -Hawks vs Orlando ” Why cant your team get the ball, Why are they letting #12 (Howard) push them around and score- our big guys dont look like they want to play”
True, hated our approach….but show me a couple of 6′8″/6′9″ 240 lb guys who DIDN’T get pushed around by Howard. As for the “bigger” guys on our roster, you already know the deal on that one.
Al played terrible in that series
I think most folks would agree that he DID play bad in that series. Did he learn from his beating? I don’t know, he was out all next season with injuries then came back in time for the 2nd round of the playoffs. Hardly enough of a sample to determine if he’s got his head back in the game. The man hasn’t been what he was his first two years, but is still a good player.
I’d say the comparison of him to David Lee is accurate. But Bass and Anderson? No. Neither would start on an above .500 team that didn’t have a dominate center on the roster. Oddly enough, neither one has played center in the NBA, much less been voted in as an all-star reserve at the position. More FACTS for ya. It’s like artificial sweetner in your koolaid, ain’t it? LOL
SteveW
July 6th, 2012
3:38 pm
The accolades Al has accumulated have come primarily, but not solely, based on the fact that the NBA has almost no Centers of quality. Especially two years ago you had:
Dwight
Bynum
Jefferson
Al Horford
Since then Greg Monroe and Roy Hibbert have entered the equation. But even Hibbert tanked the last part of last season.
Then you have Brook Lopez and Andrea Bargnani who are 2 G’s masquarading as Centers.
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
3:41 pm
SteveW ,
If the roster stays like it is going into the season, I pray you’re right.
I believe Smith will have a great season. He can’t afford not to, free agency is around the corner.
But Al Horford? I’d love for him to do well, but unless he adds to his offensive repertoire, commits to playing the pivot, and regains the mentality that he had his first three years in the NBA – he’s not going to do any better than he did the last time he was healthy. Dude HAS GOT to get his “beast mode” back…or he’ll have reached his ceiling already.
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
3:44 pm
The accolades Al has accumulated have come primarily, but not solely, based on the fact that the NBA has almost no Centers of quality. Especially two years ago you had
1) I absolutely agree with this statement. Absolutely. Best assessment I’ve seen yet. Even a person who is caught up in prefering Josh over Al should be able to see this. Some can’t, though…
2) Would you agree that with more quality “traditional” centers in the League, Al would never even have BEEN at the position in the NBA? I say he’s a PF who has been capable of playing the pivot when needed. NOT a center. I’ve ALWAYS said that. In fact, I’ve been on record saying that between him and former teammate Joakim Noah, Noah is the better CENTER.
SteveW
July 6th, 2012
3:48 pm
So many of the criticisms of reading about Josh applied to him until last season – except Woody’s last season when he finally gave up the J for the most part.
Last season Josh was a team player, great passer, picked up the slack rebounding when Al went down, rarely complained – put his head down and worked hard and finally grew up some.
Yes he shoots too many J’s. Yes he makes stupid passes on fast breaks. Terrible sometimes really. Yes he complains a little too much, and gets out of the game for stretches.
But most of the time, he’s one of the best players on the floor on either end – and he put up stat lines sometimes last season that ONLY LEBRON JAMES HAS EQUALED. REMEMBER THAT?
Now, he’s nowhere as good as LeBron – but the guys a beast – played excellent last season by almost every measure – Efficiency Ratings, PER, PPG, Rebounds, Blocks, Steals, Assists for a PF etc.
Come on – quit fighting the past – the guy was great last season. Played on a bum leg. Played every regular season game in a terrible compressed schedule year. Fought hard etc. Kept the Hawks in about every game – won games for us – was our best player many nites, if not most nites.
I defend Al also – and criticize him where I think he deserves it. Al’s a great player also.
It is possible to like both players if your a Hawks fan. And I like them both. I ain’t gotta tear down one or the other – both have flaws, and neither is a superstar – your point? Next.
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
3:50 pm
Since then Greg Monroe and Roy Hibbert have entered the equation. But even Hibbert tanked the last part of last season.
Then you have Brook Lopez and Andrea Bargnani who are 2 G’s masquarading as Centers.
Ha. Good one….
Hibbert is just coordinated enough to be a decent center in the NBA. He’s also worked hard enough to lose weight and add some game. Otherwise, he’s Hasheem Thabeet, Priest Lauderdale, or some other useless guy that happens to be over 7 feet tall and over 260 lbs. Oddly enough, Hibbert game Dwight the fits in their meetings last season.
Lopez….has the low post game, has the size as a true 7 footer that ain’t skinny as a rail. Yet he’s never really been close to being a double-double guy and remains unconvincing. No wonder the Nets are still trying to get Howard. There’s absolutely no comparison.
Lopez on rebounding – a career 7.5 average….. 2 rebounds less per game career average than that sorry old #15 who plays for the Hawks ….
Just Joe
July 6th, 2012
3:53 pm
(IMO) Josh is better than Al, but neither guy can win you a championship. They are both currently best suited as 3rd options until they get better.
Horford needs post moves (of any kind), more range on his jumper (out to 3pt land), and probably needs to add another 10 pounds of muscle in the gym. He can be an all star again as a stretch 5 (scorer) in this league.
Josh needs a better jumper, period. It’s tough to be an elite PF without an above average jumper. If he abandons his jumper and goes low-post only, there will be bigger teams where he just wont be able to get enough shots up to impact the game. If he quits taking the jumper all together, he becomes a role player. If he improves his jumper, he’s a superstar (not just an all star).
SteveW
July 6th, 2012
3:53 pm
Josh even said he missed Al when Al went down – remember? I think they both realize they are on the same team – and now they are the leaders.
Co-Captains.
THE IMMORTAL...I MUS WRITE
July 6th, 2012
3:54 pm
Astro Joe
July 6th, 2012
1:11 pm
Look for Joe Johnson and Marvin to have really big ears for their new teams.
Part out of anger for being traded, part out of being in a new environment where expectations are higher, and part out of wanting to prove to ATL that they were better than given credit for.
And part because they will be operating in offenses that are better executed because no one will “go rogue” with the designed play.
C’mon man……Rogue = JJ dribbling the shot clock down to 3 seconds and then deciding to pass. Or going one on 4 and trying to pass after being trapped in a corner. Or just not showing up for 30 of the 66 games this year. No fire – No Heart….this is who u wanna pay 20 mill…kepp your day job man arm chair GM is way too much for you to handle.
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
3:56 pm
Great points in your 3:48 post, SteveW .
Last season (especially the 2nd half) was Josh’s best by far, and with Horford out, he established himself as the team’s BEST player, no longer the player with simply the most POTENTIAL.
It was one reason why I wanted Joe Johnson and that mammoth contract GONE…
But again, in order for this team to be good and for both of our forwards to have great seasons:
1) Al has to do what I said he needs to do in the prior posts.
2) Josh has to play with the same attitude, approach, and work ethic that he had last season when Al was out.
If both guys do this (and they should have every reason to do so, particularly with no Joe to dominate the ball and no Marvin to blame) then results will speak for themselves.
But it requires both playing to that capability.
That said, I don’t know that we can or will keep both. At this point, it’s a pipe dream. And if Josh truly wants Howard in the ATL, he has to know Horford’s exit is the only way. Of course, Josh isn’t calling the shots here. Ferry is. We’ll see how this shakes out.
Ken Strickland
July 6th, 2012
3:57 pm
http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/article_external/josh_smith_excited_that_joe_johnson_and_marvin_williams_were_traded/11153267
NEJAH DAVENPOOP-Here’s a link that talks about Josh being glad about the JJ and Marvin trade, that should tell you WTF I’m talking about. I know you’llprobably try to discount the article, since you’ll want to maintain your position of ignorance. And I’m sure you’ll pretend you’ll pretend not to have heard anything about Josh trying to recruit his friend to come to the ATL.
Sometimes when you say WTF are you talking about, it’s an indication of your own ignorance, or lack of awareness on the matter.
THE IMMORTAL...I MUS WRITE
July 6th, 2012
3:59 pm
Buddy G -I dont care if he went to the Allstar game…So What -He went by default who else was there at Center……Exactly Nobody. You and Astro Joe are now presidentand vice president of the Horford Man luv club
SteveW
July 6th, 2012
4:00 pm
Josh is in about his 8th or 9th year in the League. His off season last year showed me he’s morhing into Championship mode. These guys make scads of money – almost can’t spend it all sometimes.
Then they start wanting to advance in the playoffs. I think Josh is getting in that mindset. He wants to win. And anybody that says he’s lazy, didn’t see the difference between 2 years ago and last season. The guy is improving.
And if he takes it up yet another notch, I can see a 20-9 year out of Josh, with still great assist numbers and steals.
One more statement – You can run the offense thru either Josh or Al. Both are great (not good, but not outstanding) passers to make the correct decisions, and get us easy hoops.
And we are fortunate to have both here.
And they are 2 of our very own draft picks as well. And Josh is a hometown guy. He and Morrow need to stay here, get Dwight, and turn this town inside out.
This town is theirs for the taking.
Braves mediocre. Falcons can’t win a playoff game. Tech and UGA above average, but that’s all, in football and BB right now.
Slimjr
July 6th, 2012
4:03 pm
Wait a minute: if All played in the Western Conference night in and night out he would he receive an Allstar invite?..Hmmmm
LaMarcus Aldridge would bury All whatever head to head all day everyday and missed on getting invited to Allstar games out West for several years meanwhile Get Real got hand picked because of the lack of talent in the East at his position, the 5… They say its good to be lucky?
THE IMMORTAL...I MUS WRITE
July 6th, 2012
4:04 pm
Donte -Nobody said Bass was a better player than Horford -I asked if there was that big of a difference. The answer would be no. A better comparison would be David Lee -who i think is just as good if not slightly better than AL……..
SteveW
July 6th, 2012
4:04 pm
Tech and UGA not even above average in BB right now
Next season, if we wait to sign D12 if possible – Josh 16 m, Al, 12 m, D12 20 m – 48 million dollars. Jenkins 1.4 m. Sign a 8.6 m player to get to the cap – then use your mid level and biannual.
And you’ve got a dominant squad.
If D12 doesn’t sign here – you’ve got alot of cap space to sign some folks.
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
4:04 pm
C’mon man……Rogue = JJ dribbling the shot clock down to 3 seconds and then deciding to pass. Or going one on 4 and trying to pass after being trapped in a corner.
That’s funny, I could have sworn that’s the offense we ran under Woody….and Drew…so ummm…no, it’s not rogue at all. It was par for the course.
Or just not showing up for 30 of the 66 games this year. No fire – No Heart….this is who u wanna pay 20 mill…kepp your day job man arm chair GM is way too much for you to handle.
Odd….I could have sworn it was Rick Sund at the behest of Mike Gearon, who did that. I don’t recall Astro Joe being consulted. I also don’t recall Astro Joe saying that Joe was worth the money.
Seems he said both could be better players in different systems.
FACT – statistically, Joe Johnson was never more efficient (translation: not his best scoring stats, but his best efficiency and percentage stats) when he was in Phoenix, where he was NOT option #1.
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
4:06 pm
if All played in the Western Conference night in and night out he would he receive an Allstar invite?..
Nope. He would not. And neither would Josh. Maybe not even Joe. Next…
Big Ray
July 6th, 2012
4:06 pm
if All played in the Western Conference night in and night out he would he receive an Allstar invite?..
He also would be playing PF, not C…something to think about…